>We first get posts asking for eternals to get %dmg and then after they do, people start complaining about needing to bring an extra swap
The key thing to realize is that these are two different groups of people. The latter didn't care about eternals not having %dmg. The former don't care about bringing an extra swap.
People need to understand to make a good post on this situation, or any, you either need to write like a research paper - with a thesis and supporting facts, *or* provide solutions.
Otherwise you’re just whining
I just don't understand why people think you should be able to get your absolute highest max hit in a combat style without having the best gear in that combat style equipped. You can't get your best max hit in melee with eternals equipped, why can you get your best max hit in mage with prims equipped? And the people crying about needing to use more prayer to get the max hit for mage need to realize they're just balancing augury better with rigour and piety. You need to use a high level prayer for max hits in ranged and melee, and now you'll need to do the same for mage. It's project rebalance, not project keep things the same way.
An enchanted pig stuffed into a barrel with a magic adamantite rod and dragon metal buttons that shits out 25% of your consumed runes. We can release it with a quest called Animal Shitism.
I personally feel like it's fine for different styles to behave differently. Homogenizing decision making to "bring all the best" is reductive imo. I think it's a nice perk that Magic allows for fewer swaps while remaining viable. Just my 2 cents.
I mean every combat style is still viable with fewer swaps. And that’s totally fine. But for absolute max, you should have the entire combat style gear set
Agreed. The best posts about the OG blog was easily the people that did the minimum hit, and Nightmare number crunching. I have no input on the nightmare rates because I'm very midgame and haven't had a huge boss grind for gear yet. But the minimum hit changes just clamping 0 rolls up to 1 instead of changing the range was genius. You get the clarity that you hit, a VERY small DPS buff after early game, and no change to max hit.
Yup... I saw a lot of "give Eternal damage" in the first blog but then when I included in the suggestion at least a dozen or so very opposed to boot switches. So it can feel like the subreddit flips on a dime but it is generally more that the players who wanted it got their way so they post less while the players opposed become more vocal since now they have a reason to be more vocal.
It's hard to see this objectively though because Reddit magnifies minority discontent to the point where it *looks* like the large majority of the sub has a certain stance. Then the next day it looks like the large majority of the sub has the opposite stance.
There's no easy way to track how many accounts are for/against something, who's upvoting front page stuff, etc. And people who are fine with a proposal are less likely to say anything so it can look like almost no one likes a change until you suggest the opposite...
Really difficult to gauge public opinion via Reddit. Probably worth doing more surveys on the site to get a clearer picture.
If only there were like an in game poll or something they could get feedback from instead of the vocal minority of reddit. 🤔😂
(if it's not obvious I agree with this post lmao)
The main sentiment against the eternals right now is that ancestral got bumped back enough to make taking eternals and using augury mandatory to get the same dps as we do now for 1 less inventory slot and significantly less prayer. To some people this isn’t a big issue but 1 inventory slot and 2x prayer drain is objectively a pretty large nerf
Yea the bump back on Ancestral didn't make much sense. Like, we wanted better distribution, and majority of people were fine with Ancestral getting 4%, so no idea why they nerfed it. Even for ToA, an extra slot needed for boots is a bit much, especially when considering taking an offhand is now even more on the table.
The other weird thing about boots is the inventory management that goes with them, when you aren’t taking even switches for each style it always makes it janky. And taking prims and eternals but no pegs is going to cause inventory nightmares when switching gear. Especially at places like CMs
Funny point actually, we have venator ring and it doesn’t see much use because of the lightbearer and +2 range str not doing much for tbow and most places, in reality this would probably be an extra inventory space taking both for it to make a difference
Another example to kinda drive home my point here. If we look at world record challenge mode raids, people were taking avas over venator ring, despite venator ring being better by providing more range accuracy. Simply for the fact that venator ring made switching too awkward
To be honest, I thought it was just going to be a redistribution of stats from the occult meaning that if we logged in post patch, then whatever it was that we were wearing with the occult would be exactly the same.
Unfortunately that's not what they're doing. I think it's too much
You hit the nail on the head. Prior to today, I didn’t care if eternals got a buff.
However, they decided they were gonna buff it at the cost of lowering the damage of the current BIS setup without boots. That, I am NOT okay with. Either make it strictly an optional buff or don’t bother with it at all.
I'm convinced people are completely oblivious to the fact that shadow needs to be tuned down lol. It's op even for a mega rare and this is actually a really good way to do it and yet people are just reeeing left and right. Off hand mage setups got buffed pretty universally and people still want to bitch about this. Its madness. Worse case scenario shadow without boots is just pre dt2 rings dps with a prayer that is finally intuitive but people just cant take their fucking medicine.
Except whenever you run shadow in a dps calculator, it's right where it needs to be compared to other Mega rares.
Scythe like tops out at 14dps
Shadows like 11dps
It's not unreasonable compared to other megas
We made a binding vow with Jagex so that we would get a playable monkey room in exchange for our voidwaker
https://preview.redd.it/ncsnnhxi2avc1.jpeg?width=2550&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c28bdb535455372f54c2a0a5fcf3339b36fddb37
Kenjaku wouldnt break one and he transcends death. That means the punishment is worse than death.
I think i heard once a lot of the series was based off of Hinduism and this one time someone broke a promise and had to walk the world for 1000 (3000?) years hosting every plague in existence
Additionally, it probably feels like a much bigger wave of feedback and nits to pick because, well, It's a lot of changes! If Rebalance goes through as a competently executed update, it'll be HUGE for the game because of how much is getting tweaked and changed for it. But that also means we have an absolute mountain of edge cases to consider, lots of opinions to contend with, and knock-on effects to anticipate.
That we've got a lot of discussion going on is a good thing; such wide and potent game changes demand it if they're to be done well.
Also, if the update goes through, they aren't going to be adjusting it again for a long time, if ever. If they barely buff Nightmare drop rates, they aren't going to come back in a month and buff them again, we'll just be stuck with that.
Yeah exactly it feels like this is going the exact way it's supposed to be. Jagex proposes something, gets feedback, then adjusts. It's not complaining when it's valid feedback
You're missing the entire point. This isn't about valid feedback it's about the people who are commenting shit like "the game is absolutely ruined because of a 2% nerf jagex are so shit they're trying to kill the game"
Then the next day jagex changes their decision. Jagex definitely isn't taking it personally, the Reddit however has a real anger issue.
You don't even know what feedback they reference when making adjustments, people have been crying their CG rng for ages in the thread and it's still unchanged. I highly doubt they use the exaggerated statements for feedback over the well thought out responses + content creator feedback videos.
I think the phrasing matters a lot here, if you sound whiny or heated it doesn't come across as levelheaded feedback.
It's tough to change someone's mind by yelling at them...
Ye I was going to say- I've never worked with public feedback at even a 10th of the scale that the OS team does. But in my work I've learned a couple things- feedback is typically going to have a negative bias, we can't feel its personal on our work, but try and understand that person's perspective, what it is they value. And second that at the end of the day- my team and I have to trust each other, and those are the people that I am attuned to because we all share a common goal. Not random client #512 writing a thesis on how they would run the company and how I, specifically, am an idiot
Yeah, it's iterative. They're ultimately the game designers, they choose which suggestions to keep and which to can.
Separately, are player bases (of most games including this one) too whiny? Also yes, but that's a separate problem than the iterative process.
I mean to an extent
I have sympathy to the devs, and only the devs, because they have to deal with us as assholes
But jagex itself is a business and should be treated like such. There's nothing wrong with wanting the game you pay for to be good
The thing is that people who are happy generally aren't the ones who make posts/comments.
I'm sure the majority of people are either happy or indifferent to the changes. But they're not going to make posts saying "I'm perfectly happy with all of this now" and even if they did, it would either be downvoted by people who are negatively affected/care more, or just ignored in favour of a more engagement bait-y post.
Reactionary "x change is bad" posts almost always do quite well for engagement and discussion. Hence why you don't see a single post saying "Soulreaper Axe changes are fantastic, well done Jagex" or "Thanks for monkey room update" on the front page, even though I'm fairly sure most people viewed those as positive changes.
On occasion, people excited or interested in a change are going to make a comment or post about it - I try to force myself to do it when I remember just so there is *some* positive feedback - but as a general point, people tend to be more willing to voice their opinion when they believe there is something to lose on the line.
We should be nitpicking. These are big changes to the core of the game, and they arent being polled. They definitely need to be vetted in as many ways possible instead of blindly rolling them out.
In fact, jagex is probably glad that the community is giving them a lot of feedback on it. That was the intention of the blog posts. If they didn't care, then they wouldn't seek the communities opinion.
Why would they not be polled? They should really break these changes down and poll them to death. I think part of the problem with the approach that they're using right now is that it's too big of a change, which makes it too easy for details to get lost. When they rebalance things like they did with the blowpipe nerf, it's easy to understand/reason about. They should keep approaching things this way.
https://preview.redd.it/3co1eksrw9vc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b416cc8443790a63102d638c833623759851816
Replace the twitter logo with r/2007scape
If any mods are reading this, just know that I’m proud of you and RuneScape has been my favorite game for 20 years. Thanks for keeping it alive and adding new content
These posts always confuse me. Most of the feedback I'm seeing is very reasonable and on point. Jagex clearer didn't fully think through all of the changes and wanted to get suggestions from the community.
Sure there are some really rude people but they are by far the minority.
I've seen people actively claim boots do not need to be buffed even before the blog got update, both making posts and replying. The two factions were always there, it's silly to assume the same people are just being moody and nitpicky.
As much as it might suck to sift through though, ultimately, getting this right is very important. We're not gonna be getting these huge rebalances often, it'll determine the future of the game for a long time. Toxic as it might sometimes be, Jagex is trying their best, and I believe they can put out something ultimately good, even if we have to go through this mess for a while to get there.
And besides, there's always going to be a group that's unhappy with changes. The important bit is that feedback is being received and considered, regardless of whether or not it makes it into the game. Some unpopular ideas are genuinely good, and vice versa, all that's left is for Jagex to pick the best ones they can find and integrate them with their own.
Boots should be like rings where the specific ring stands way above but there's a balanced option like brimstone. Prims, Eternals and Pegs were all objectively shit. People not bringing them to switch is testament to that
Inventory space is already cramped and managing prayer is already somewhat tedious. Their proposed mid game magic buff is to move magic damage from a single inexpensive item to multiple other items and force you to use a prayer just to get the exact same damage. This is not a buff this is 100% a full big fat nerf to the weakest branch of the combat triangle in its most obvious need area while still resulting in the only area of magic that does not need a buff getting a buff.
For the most part I’ve seen predominantly constructive feedback, which Jagex is looking for. Seems like a productive discussion and I think both the players and Jagex would prefer it to players just blindly accepting any proposed change that comes along
The arguing and debating is just how you know us players care about the game. I'll be the one to join you in saying thank you to the mods for all that they do, even if they do Nerf my precious void waker.
I think the amount of feedback people give is great, but man, the threads that get upvoted always seem to be the most petulant and aggressive ones. Not to mention the fact there's always three or four threads with the same feedback just phrased in different ways, all heavily upvoted.
Can't help but think in time the devs are just gonna get sick of putting up with it and stop coming here.
That'd be bad for jagex imo
The wonderful devs are one of the best draws of osrs, if they take that away...I'm not sure what'll happen but it wouldn't be good
The problem is that we have a couple of issues that need addressing and they aren't doing so in a way that makes sense. 2 problems: occult is a lot of power in one item, and also mid game magic is very weak. Their solution: nerf mid game magic. ??????? Problem: nightmare's drop table is a nightmare and horribly unbalanced for the power of gear it drops. Their solution: make it slightly less shit but still shit. Problem: people that haven't thought things through think VW's guaranteed hit is OP. Their solution: keep pushing an unneeded nerf despite overwhelming negative feedback with good reasoning and alternatives provided.
I truly do love the devs for what they do for us and the amazing game we all love. And some of the other changes are fantastic! SRA, maul, monkey room, etc, so happy for these. But it's hard to be happy about the patch overall when it means things that don't need nerfed are getting nerfed and things that need buffed are not given proper attention.
A lot of the proposal updates feel not properly thought through, especially stuff like VW. If any jmod reads this I'm sorry I'm not trying to be mean but it literally feels like the majority of feedback is being ignored or nitpicked.
Stop. Its not that they arent thought out, its that their are many dimensions to each problem to consider. Its very time consuming for a team to go through all of those considerations which is why this feedback is necessary. Osrs is a big game, so when you go to rebalance equipment to try to solve a problem its very difficult to do it in a way that doesnt negatively impact the mid game, or end game, or a raid, etc etc etc.
The community will never agree on what needs to be done because most people will vote for what benefits them which is the obvious pitfall of democracy. Jagex just needs to be the adult in this situation, look at the feedback they get on reddit/twitter/discord and make the right choices which imo it seems like theyre doing right now
"The community will never agree on what needs to be done because most people will vote for what benefits them which is the obvious pitfall of democracy" hoy shit You justo described argentina and it's wellfare system
I see where you're coming from, but the whole community is quite literally saying "Don't touch the Voidwaker" and "Improve lower level mage gear bonuses instead of buffing maxed gear only" and yet they keep ignoring that? DPS calcs have proved it time and time again that the Voidwaker is a niche spec weapon in PVM and is only useful because of it's special attack being what it is, it gets beaten out by Zaryte crossbow and Dragon claws in many places alongside other weapons too.
Nah they're a business, it's their job to make a game we want to play
The mods themselves are great and I do feel bad when people are dicks to them on a personal level, but I think it's good to be vocal about the games direction
I don't. They chose this approach. They are creating just as many problems with each proposed solution.
Instead of thinking more creatively, they just threw their hands up and decided to shuffle around what we already have to make room for future hypothetical content.
I'm all for fixing what is clearly broken, but these types of changes seem like a terrible precedent to set every time Jagex feels creatively boxed-in.
Yeah honestly I agree. The devs are working really hard trying to make everyone happy and the fact is that's very hard. I think they are pretty close if the biggest point of contention now is VW and 6% magic damage for people doing super sweaty TOA/COX
They can win, they just need to stop worry about what Reddit and Twitter goblins have to say about the propsals. Whatever changes they implement we just have to adapt. It's not like we can quit this digital version of pure crack cocaine.
The amount of people crying about the Blowpipe was also massive. Anyone cry about it now? I don't see a single soul. Adapt and move on.
That's not what this is though. We're (effectively) taking a nerf by NOT bringing eternals. Give damage to eternals, leave the rest as is, it's not rocket science. It's like if you were complaining that you didn't have a reason to bring prims, and they said okay and buffed prims by 3 str bonus, but took off 1 str bonus off BCP and tassets in exchange. Now I'm FORCED to bring prims and I'm punished for not doing so.
Support. Devs and mods working so hard to appease the community and also make good changes to the game that allow them to make good future updates.
Thank the devs !
Most (good) players I know:
before the change: "The number one thing I don't want to come out of this rebalance is damage on eternals"
After first proposal: "Thank god they didn't put damage on eternals good job jagex nice instincts"
After reddit whining: "God damn it"
There's nothing wrong with damage going to BIS boots because right now eternals and pegs are a joke.
The problem is distributing damage in a way that made you now wear the boots to reach the same damage as before these changes. Nobody wants that.
I do agree they need a buff, but not while also nerfing other items to buff it. Personally I think add the 2% back to whatever item they took off to put on boots and just flat out buff boots by 1-2% so people don’t lose a max hit but good players who want to risk losing an extra brew can bring the boot switch.
Agree. I think more items with more use is so good. You don’t see anyone complaining about melee gear. Helm body legs boots cape ring gloves and shield all have their own individual melee strength, so why shouldn’t mage
Nobody complains because since melee is the only style with strength bonus in its boot slot this means you can camp that slot without losing out on DPS with other styles, which is good
This would be the same if eternals were the only boots with damage bonus and prims only had defense and melee accuracy, you would just camp eternals to all content that requires multiple combat styles and nobody would complain
Having a gear slot that is generally camped is just not a problem. Meanwhile buffing eternals and making them a necessary switch for anyone who prioritizes playing with optimal DPS setups does pose a problem, even if you want to argue it’s only for a marginalized group of players. The problem an eternal buff would solve has much better alternatives and this obsession with boots baffles me. This also isn’t exclusive to maxed players, mid level players being forced to do 10-way switches because every single gear slot gives them magic damage does not sound exciting
Don’t feel bad they’re suggestions are shit
Rebalancing a game that demands 10000000s of hours is bound to go down badly
They’re messing with peoples time while demanding so much time in the first place
So yes we’re going to complain, if they want better progression with rebalance then make shit like imbued heart reasonable and so on and so on
Huge shoutout to the devs!
That actually made me laugh a little...after yesterday a good amount of people wanting eternals to have %dmg and then today "but wait that means an extra item swap" 🤣. People with their cake and all that....
I am glad we have have some of the best and most patient devs in the industry that actually listen to feedback (both good and bad). It gets a bit bumpy at times but I think mostly we get to a good spot eventually with updates.
ok this nuance is probably hard for you to understand but, the ppl asking for eternal buff and the ppl saying the don't want extra swaps are not the same people.
hope that helps.
It’s almost like there is a large community of people with different opinions and tastes. So there is always going to be a group of people who dislike a change.
I think this kind of conversation is important for the whole community be from casual to sweaty. We all love the game and we all have different perspectives so open dialogue about purposes changes amongst hundreds of fans and players I think is kinda awesome
It's frustrating because they often mix *really good* ideas and *really bad* ones and then also throw in some *really bold, and some think it's bad but others see the point* ideas and then for good measure some *probably flawed but important ideas that require serious, lengthy, informed discussion* ideas all together, and so even as someone who can't stand how nasty the community is and hates joining the negativity, it's impossible to just say everything's fine, or I hate them, or I love them, etc.
They should stop using reddit as a form of accurate feedback. The loudest people in the community don't understand the nuance of the game but they make demands without thinking about how and why things are the way they are. The loudest people are also the most "casual" and don't represent the people who care about longevity. The loudest people also dont think for themselves and just regurgitate whatever the popular opinion is as if it's fact and smother anyone who disagrees. You're NEVER going to get an accurate representation of the entire community from reddit, because the downvote/upvote system buries any diversity in opinion into obscurity.
The community should just not say anything and let ahrims become dead content? I mean come on man they do want our feedback. There's always going to be assholes as well it's unavoidable.
> Crybaby bitchfitting gatekeeping endgame pvmers go wahhhhh
> Midgame zero game knowledge pvmers unwilling to acknowledge the mid-heavy power level
> Early game pvmers not knowing how insane early game even is until they are outside the level for it
And the grass keeps growing and the world keeps turning. Nothing changes.
I think there's good feedback and just useless opinions and complaining.
THIS ISN'T RS3 PEOPLE!
There is a lot of nitpicking because certain items should have a specific percentage.
*”it doesn’t matter what it is, someone online hates it”*
This is why I’m so adamantly against the polling system in its current form. We’re not keeping osrs from barreling towards destruction. We’re allowing whoever screams the loudest to drive design direction, and then allowing it to potentially be a wasted effort (even though basically nothing fails anymore except PvP changes).
The big problem with this specifically though is the philosophy jagex is sticking to — keeping magic power essentially the same with changes to how you get it — does nothing but pull the rug out from under it. The only way for these changes to not feel horrible is for them to concede that magic might be slightly more powerful, by redesigning the way magic damage works. That’s the big problem with it. It’s always been the big problem with it. It’s why you can use occult & mystic and get almost the same output as shadow.
The main complaint I saw repeated was that the best in slot was getting the % made up for the losss from Occult. But slightly lower sets like infinity and others didn't get that damage replacement and therefore were nerfed in DPS at those levels/price points. I think that is compeltely valid feedback.
The swapping and having to bring more gear complaints is pretty dumb though ngl.
It's really not that hard to make eternals relevant without forcing them into the current meta. Just give them an accuracy boost or give them mage % without taking it from occult.
The posts complaining about eternals were from people that had bought hundreds of them betting they'd get it and then they didn't. So to save their speculative gamble they started campaigning to get damage added to eternals.
The posts weren't from people looking to actually use them in any sort of meaningful way, just to make GP. Now those posts won, and people that actually know what they're doing in this game are frustrated that they're taking a damage nerf or needing to run 9 way switches
I don't play end game content, but surely the idea of having specific strengths and weaknesses in attacks lends itself to having a team with specific roles, rather than a load of unnecessary swaps?
Honestly I'm OK with this, and the new prayers that were community led, then attacked by the community, because they add to and enhance the game. It isn't eoc. The principle of how you attack and play remains fundamentally the same.
The osrs community does properly suck sometimes.
Agreed. This subreddit acts like it speaks for everyone but it really doesn’t, at least in my own experience. Lots of people in my discord groups are super excited for the changes and are having fun anticipating how metas could adapt.
They need to just stop listening to Reddit, say these are the nerfs and you’ll have to deal with it. Since they started listening this place has become a cesspit of crybabies, who know that they’ll get their way if they’re vocal enough.
Not listening to any feedback and letting the dev team do whatever they want on a whim is a great idea! As long as your objective is to kill the game.
Go ahead and compare RS3’s numbers to OSRS’s. RS3 is a great example of what happens when the dev team does whatever it wants with no consideration for feedback.
No, actually not. This is what they signed up for, this is what the polling system is in place for. Were they given the free hand to design and balance every aspect of the game themselves, it would have been RS3 by now.
I don't feel bad about them at all. Trying to circumvent the poll system by calling their massive systems changes "rebalance". The scope is just way too big and we aren't being harsh enough about these changes, some obvious flaws that are nerfs are being focused on while the poorly designed buffs and other nonsense adjustments are being mostly ignored.
Just scrap it, do one rebalance at a time, if it changes systems in the game, poll it.
they should just leave the game alone and ignore all the people complaining about things that have been the same for 20+ years in a game that is more popular than ever
Honestly I have never seen so many babies about one game. It's crazy. Let jagex cook and play along with it, not every single person's opinion should be noted. Like 1% magic damage here or there who cares.
You seem to forget that different people have different opinions. It will always be difficult (if not impossible) to create something that everyone wants to see.
Where large groups are involved, large groups have different opinions
Only a small percentage of people care about potentially bringing an extra swap to a raid and raids aren't the only endgame piece of content. Bring on the eternal buff
That’s because everyone begging for eternal buff doesn’t play the game/just wanted their merch to profit. Everyone who complained about the swaps actually plays the game and realized how shit of an idea it is
Anyone complaining they HAVE TO (they don't) bring 1 extra swap is a shitter. If that makes or breaks your gameplay, you just aren't good.
Having boots have an actual use is a good thing.
My opinion is that Jagex needs to stop asking for community feedback. Back when eoc was a thing it made sense that we didn't trust Jagex with updates and content.
Players should NOT design content. Especially high level players.
This title is literally what I typed in my clan chat this morning. Reddit moves the goal post EVERY SINGLE TIME Jagex compromises a tiny bit. Actually gross how much toxicity is inside this subreddit.
For all you nerds who can't stand the thought of having to change your gear setups, Screw your "perfect 8-way swaps". Game is meant to be filled with choices, stop trying to remove them.
the solution was to put in on prayer 10 fuckin years ago like melee and range and build out effects from that instead of letting it get to this clusterfuck of a gear mess we have.
But going forward. yeah. its rough to balance
They took on the project of rebalancing a ton of shit in the game, obviously there’s going to be a lot of feedback. People want different things. All this discussion is good and helps them to get it right. This post is pointless and not constructive.
I am someone who has come back to playing after a long, long break. It is incredible how many cool training methods, mini games, bosses, etc Jagex has added to the game. I’ve been making it a point to try all the new stuff (my mind was stuck in GWD era), and I can’t believe how much fun it all is. So much variety. They’ve done an amazing job with the game and I really hope they know that despite the constant criticism they seem to face.
The merchers who stockpiled stuff without a post about what was being buffed are the ones complaining boots and books didn’t get a boost. Lol tryna make profit off it.
> They just can't seem to win. This project rebalance shows how nitpicky this community is.
How about they just FUCKING POLL THE DAMN CHANGES?
Then maybe they would put in content the playerbase actually wants and shitcan the content they don't like? You know like they PROMISED they would do when osrs launched?
People wanted a raw damage boost on eternals, not re-distribution of damage from somewhere else. Aside from shadow+ancestral, mage is lacking compared to range and melee, so just a straight buff to mage would've been acceptable. Jagex does do a decent job of hearing out the community tho
Reddit as a whole is an echo chamber for particularly negative feedback when in reality they are a minority of the player base. Jagex has data on this, they’re not losing sleep over it, I promise.
Discourse was happening from those suggestions as well.
It's just finding solutions and finding the right balance. A lot of times ideas can come from the comminity or Jagex themselves.
Also sometimes things are pitched and I realize 'Hey, why are we trying to make the Elden Maul a defense reduction spec weapon? Isn't there some cool guy wielding a two handed Dragon Maul at Nightmare of Ashihama at release. Why not release that to fill the two handed space and give the Elden Maul something else like operating like the Granite Maul or some powerful spec weapon to go alongside its already meaty crush stat'.
Or I see the magic off hands, remember the Godbooks exist and go: "Hey why does the Book of War offer +2 Strength, Book of Law offers no +2 in Range Strength despite the next step up being a +4 in Range Strength with the Odium Ward. Then the Book of Shadow is 0% Magic Strength? Isn't a early game problem is making crossbows useful at earlier levels let alone elemental damage? Why not have these fill that gap? And adjust the magic off hand accordingly since the concern has been indirectly buffing the Shadow'.
These projects create ideas or has us remember the thousand of other items or things already in-game to pull from. So we can have more thoughts, ideas, opinions and insight on the table.
Honestly, the discourse is pretty healthy in comparison to other discourses we've had. It's big decisions being made and of course everyone will have different ideas.
While rs3 is not perfect. I think the osrs team needs to remember they can’t make everyone happy, and they mad people who’ve possibly smaller, are always the most vocal
Why would you feel bad? The point of these posts have been to gather feedback on proposed changes. This is what Jagex wants. Nothing to feel bad about.
I just think this blog post - community feedback - blog post format is kinda weird for whoever has to write the blog post. They could make an announcement for what they would like to change and say they will iterate with community feedback and do it in another format. They could do a series of polls or something.
You're right, they should just nerf occult to 4%, slap 3% on the ring, and 1% on each robe piece above mystics. Then take a couple of weeks off, they earned it.
Agreed. Man, I'd 100% quit my job if I had to deal with this subreddit for feedback. Sure, feedback is valuable and welcome. But does it really have to include "jagex doesn't know what they're doing?" every other post? Jfc this sub does love throwing in personal attacks.
We are lucky to have devs that love the game as much as we do.
idk, I think most people agree that early and mid game magic doesn't need to be nerfed and if anything needs a buff to feel better. The original proposal gutted magic until late game.
If i can get roughly the same DPS in the gear I would normally take (ahrims, torm, occult, mage book,) with maybe mystic might or eternals added, then I'll be pretty happy.
It also smooths out the progression as damage is spread over those items instead of needing 93 slayer to get a single item. Having an extra switch isn't that much of a nerf, and it finally makes my eternals viable
The people that portion of the project rebalance effects are probably less than 10% of the player base as most players don’t have an occult necklace or eternal boots.
I think they are well aware that not everyone will be happy. Although, if they frequent this sub, I can imagine how demoralizing it can be with these posts.
I know they can't hold a survey or poll every day, but I think this comes with the territory of pulling feedback from social media, especially reddit.
i think the clearest explanation here is that occult didnt need to be nerfed and its opening this huge fucking can of worms around how bad jaggy can be about balance and design when put on the spot.
Yea THIS is what shows how nitpicky the community is. Its definitely not the years and years of voting no on quality updates because it would devalue something
you can't disagree with the people mad about the boots getting damage because they just put you in a little convenient "1500 total andy" box and completely disregard your opinion, regardless of if its true
Well, when you rebalance equipment that takes a long time to get, of course people are going to fire back.
This game doesn't have many choices/builds for endgame compared to larger MMOs, so you are messing with everyones set up.
This whole rebalancing situation needs to be scrapped. 93 slayer unboostable requirement to even get the occult should grant you the large magic upgrade.
If anything, they should just make the occult untradable and locked behind 93 slayer and offer a different amulet/tradable with a 4% boost unlocked from a slayer mid lvl drop.
Yeah people are gonna be picky about changes because none of these are going to be polled they are going to be forced into the game whether the majority of players want it or not, so of course everyone's gonna be arguing over what to change and put in
they literallt asked for our opinions?
its good to hear from the players. so many companies dont and thats why their games are dogshit.
remember when Jagex didnt listen to their players. EoC happened.
criticism/feedback is good.
harrasing and unhelpful spewing of hate like "this is dumb" is going to far imo
It would do osrs players good to play rs3 for a goddamn minute to be grateful for the wonderful updates and the sheer amount of love and care the OSRS devs have for the game.
We got a whole goddamn month dedicated to Hero Pass. We get entire months of content dedicated to the single holiday event. We've been fucking starving since Necromancy meanwhile you guys get a new skill, a new continent and a huge graphics update in the span of like 3 months.
I don't think the majority of people are being too picky, I just think jagex consistently misses the "obvious" changes to make. For example, if you don't want to buff shadow, buff magic offhands. Or nerf shadow's multiplier and buff all magic gear, to equalize shadow and buff everyone else since magic sucks.
They're asking for a lot of feedback too, so it's not totally out of line to be "picky" about something you think is better for the game, they want to get a lot of perspectives on the changes.
I think the most based take is that eternals and pegs shouldn’t be outright cosmetic upgrades. Wanting eternals to not be useless =! nerfing a bunch of gear and making 9 way switches a thing
They want debate and by gum we've given them something. I think the worst offender was Ahrims being shafted for having defense stats. It currently isn't being shafted and it seems the voidwaker is. As someone who has only read/looked at video for the voidwalker, I have no strong opinions. However, someone who has experience and graphs could provide more insight. So you have a lotta dissonant discussions happening by people with different viewpoints. I don't think that's the worst thing, especially because we can't vote on "Game Health" updates.
I think the biggest problem is we don't have a civil relationship with Jagex. If we did, that would be really weird, considering the sheer number of random strangers, like myself, involved. I think it's made a little worse by the fact many OSRS players despise RS3/EoC for ruining the game they used to like and, subsequently, don't trust "Jagex."
I think the OSRS devs are fantastic. I think they're receptive and they put in work. They're just painfully small for a studio that should have a much higher budget.
https://preview.redd.it/qjm1dj2rnbvc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1be6226274ba76494c343c55832df68b2fe2c76
This is more in line with what jagex is currently doing than what you are saying.
The best version of the game is when the community is critical and drives that change, the Jagex team seem to be very embracing of this. F1 drivers are known for their feedback that helps the engineers create the best vehicle possible, we are getting world class game development methods utilised on this game we adore
The rebalance for the 18th is a step in the right direction imo. They made some good quality changes to the boosts imo.
I definitely think maybe ancestral should be 3.5%. Good Middle ground between 3 and 4 percent.
Next, eldinis should maybe get a percentage raise to 5 instead of 3 or maybe added defence bonus to be worth it over the malediction. Malediction now will have the defence bonus and 2 percent matk bonus while eldinis has 3 percent matk and like no defence bonus.
But way better than the first rebalance post imo.
Jagex is listening and trying to make everyone happy.
It is so simple to understand. It's not as simple as people not coming to agreement.
Jagex deems these changes as "Integrity".
"Integrity" changes will not be polled
Said "Integrity" changes are EXTREMELY controversial
The polling system is the entire foundation that OSRS is built on and and the sole reason the game has amassed such success is because, ironically it helps maintain INTEGRITY and avoids CONTROVERSY
It doesn't matter what side you are on, what's happening right now is going against everything that OSRS stands for.
Reddit makes up 10% of the playerbase and not only that most of the people making these controversial threads are CASUAL players, and Jagex is taking most of their influence from them, there is a very clear issue with this and everything that's going on.
We have already lowered the poll pasaing percentage to 70%, there is almost no reason to not poll changes like these. As soon as Jagex and the community realized how controversial these changes are, we should all agree, knowing that's exactly how OSRS has worked since the beginning, that they need to be polled.
We are giving in to something that I believe will be the start of the destruction of OSRS. It truly is not the blog changes themselves. We are giving in to pressure from casual/needy players that dont want to play OSRS for what it is. They are getting way too comfortable constantly complaining and are NEVER happy. They will not know what they have until it's gone, and if we head in this direction, it will in fact be gone.
Coming to Reddit is probably the worst possible place to seek advice for the long term viability of this game. Everyone here is obsessed with “spooning” a green log on their iron man when they haven’t even completed the game on a main. Maxing on this game used to take a lot of time and effort
WOAH now!!! DISCUSSION?
IN A FORUM FOR DISCUSSION?
Burn it all down, apologize to the developers, and assume that no group consensus will ever be made and eternal war is the only solution. /s
This is part of discussion and feedback. With this many changes, it takes time. Let the discourse run its course.
Having everyone hate it probably means it’s a good update tbh, too often people forget who the largest portion of the community is, and spoiler alert, I don’t think that majority has 93 slayer
>We first get posts asking for eternals to get %dmg and then after they do, people start complaining about needing to bring an extra swap The key thing to realize is that these are two different groups of people. The latter didn't care about eternals not having %dmg. The former don't care about bringing an extra swap.
People were even arguing about it in all those posts
People need to understand to make a good post on this situation, or any, you either need to write like a research paper - with a thesis and supporting facts, *or* provide solutions. Otherwise you’re just whining
I just don't understand why people think you should be able to get your absolute highest max hit in a combat style without having the best gear in that combat style equipped. You can't get your best max hit in melee with eternals equipped, why can you get your best max hit in mage with prims equipped? And the people crying about needing to use more prayer to get the max hit for mage need to realize they're just balancing augury better with rigour and piety. You need to use a high level prayer for max hits in ranged and melee, and now you'll need to do the same for mage. It's project rebalance, not project keep things the same way.
God like reply fam...slap +2 ranged strength on the pegasians as well.
why does range benefit from ammo slot but not my melee or magic! we need +4 str blessings asap to complete the 11 way
22 slots for my switches, 3 slots for boost potions, 2 slots for restores, 1 slot for food. Ez pz ;)
This is literally what rs3 has become lol
Magic should have ammo saving just like Avas..
An enchanted pig stuffed into a barrel with a magic adamantite rod and dragon metal buttons that shits out 25% of your consumed runes. We can release it with a quest called Animal Shitism.
This is what infinity robes should offer, rather than a DPS increase. It's in the name
I personally feel like it's fine for different styles to behave differently. Homogenizing decision making to "bring all the best" is reductive imo. I think it's a nice perk that Magic allows for fewer swaps while remaining viable. Just my 2 cents.
I mean every combat style is still viable with fewer swaps. And that’s totally fine. But for absolute max, you should have the entire combat style gear set
Agreed. The best posts about the OG blog was easily the people that did the minimum hit, and Nightmare number crunching. I have no input on the nightmare rates because I'm very midgame and haven't had a huge boss grind for gear yet. But the minimum hit changes just clamping 0 rolls up to 1 instead of changing the range was genius. You get the clarity that you hit, a VERY small DPS buff after early game, and no change to max hit.
Yup... I saw a lot of "give Eternal damage" in the first blog but then when I included in the suggestion at least a dozen or so very opposed to boot switches. So it can feel like the subreddit flips on a dime but it is generally more that the players who wanted it got their way so they post less while the players opposed become more vocal since now they have a reason to be more vocal.
It's hard to see this objectively though because Reddit magnifies minority discontent to the point where it *looks* like the large majority of the sub has a certain stance. Then the next day it looks like the large majority of the sub has the opposite stance. There's no easy way to track how many accounts are for/against something, who's upvoting front page stuff, etc. And people who are fine with a proposal are less likely to say anything so it can look like almost no one likes a change until you suggest the opposite... Really difficult to gauge public opinion via Reddit. Probably worth doing more surveys on the site to get a clearer picture.
If only there were like an in game poll or something they could get feedback from instead of the vocal minority of reddit. 🤔😂 (if it's not obvious I agree with this post lmao)
In game has a lot of technical limitations, and people would expect the polls to be binding. It's not that good for community feedback unfortunately.
Didn't they just poll for community feedback prior to sailing and such? They poll for feedback very consistently lol
Fr. I wish they had a survey for these like they did with the Skilling section. Would have been a way more accurate gauge of community sentiment.
The main sentiment against the eternals right now is that ancestral got bumped back enough to make taking eternals and using augury mandatory to get the same dps as we do now for 1 less inventory slot and significantly less prayer. To some people this isn’t a big issue but 1 inventory slot and 2x prayer drain is objectively a pretty large nerf
Yea the bump back on Ancestral didn't make much sense. Like, we wanted better distribution, and majority of people were fine with Ancestral getting 4%, so no idea why they nerfed it. Even for ToA, an extra slot needed for boots is a bit much, especially when considering taking an offhand is now even more on the table.
The other weird thing about boots is the inventory management that goes with them, when you aren’t taking even switches for each style it always makes it janky. And taking prims and eternals but no pegs is going to cause inventory nightmares when switching gear. Especially at places like CMs
+2 ranged strength to Pegs, enjoy your -2 slots for supplies everyone!
Funny point actually, we have venator ring and it doesn’t see much use because of the lightbearer and +2 range str not doing much for tbow and most places, in reality this would probably be an extra inventory space taking both for it to make a difference Another example to kinda drive home my point here. If we look at world record challenge mode raids, people were taking avas over venator ring, despite venator ring being better by providing more range accuracy. Simply for the fact that venator ring made switching too awkward
To be honest, I thought it was just going to be a redistribution of stats from the occult meaning that if we logged in post patch, then whatever it was that we were wearing with the occult would be exactly the same. Unfortunately that's not what they're doing. I think it's too much
Imo as long as the community is hotted divided it means its probably a fair change
You hit the nail on the head. Prior to today, I didn’t care if eternals got a buff. However, they decided they were gonna buff it at the cost of lowering the damage of the current BIS setup without boots. That, I am NOT okay with. Either make it strictly an optional buff or don’t bother with it at all.
it’s a REBALANCE project. God damn how are people so ignorant. Look further ahead lmao.
I'm convinced people are completely oblivious to the fact that shadow needs to be tuned down lol. It's op even for a mega rare and this is actually a really good way to do it and yet people are just reeeing left and right. Off hand mage setups got buffed pretty universally and people still want to bitch about this. Its madness. Worse case scenario shadow without boots is just pre dt2 rings dps with a prayer that is finally intuitive but people just cant take their fucking medicine.
Except whenever you run shadow in a dps calculator, it's right where it needs to be compared to other Mega rares. Scythe like tops out at 14dps Shadows like 11dps It's not unreasonable compared to other megas
If they want to nerf the shadow, nerf the shadow. Are they stupid?
We made a binding vow with Jagex so that we would get a playable monkey room in exchange for our voidwaker https://preview.redd.it/ncsnnhxi2avc1.jpeg?width=2550&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c28bdb535455372f54c2a0a5fcf3339b36fddb37
Can we just break the binding vow? Sukuna had the balls to tempt it so it can’t be that bad.
Kenjaku wouldnt break one and he transcends death. That means the punishment is worse than death. I think i heard once a lot of the series was based off of Hinduism and this one time someone broke a promise and had to walk the world for 1000 (3000?) years hosting every plague in existence
This is just part of the creative process. Proposal > feedback > revisions. Jagex shouldn’t be taking it personally and neither should the players
Additionally, it probably feels like a much bigger wave of feedback and nits to pick because, well, It's a lot of changes! If Rebalance goes through as a competently executed update, it'll be HUGE for the game because of how much is getting tweaked and changed for it. But that also means we have an absolute mountain of edge cases to consider, lots of opinions to contend with, and knock-on effects to anticipate. That we've got a lot of discussion going on is a good thing; such wide and potent game changes demand it if they're to be done well.
Also, if the update goes through, they aren't going to be adjusting it again for a long time, if ever. If they barely buff Nightmare drop rates, they aren't going to come back in a month and buff them again, we'll just be stuck with that.
Now that I have a reason for eternal boot switch, when are we making pegs worth a switch? Edit: Jesus guys, it's a joke relax hive mind.
Reddit is going to cook this game
Can I fry it like an egg?
No, poached only and you better not break the yolk
Yes, Chef!
Yeah exactly it feels like this is going the exact way it's supposed to be. Jagex proposes something, gets feedback, then adjusts. It's not complaining when it's valid feedback
You're missing the entire point. This isn't about valid feedback it's about the people who are commenting shit like "the game is absolutely ruined because of a 2% nerf jagex are so shit they're trying to kill the game" Then the next day jagex changes their decision. Jagex definitely isn't taking it personally, the Reddit however has a real anger issue.
You don't even know what feedback they reference when making adjustments, people have been crying their CG rng for ages in the thread and it's still unchanged. I highly doubt they use the exaggerated statements for feedback over the well thought out responses + content creator feedback videos.
I think the phrasing matters a lot here, if you sound whiny or heated it doesn't come across as levelheaded feedback. It's tough to change someone's mind by yelling at them...
Ye I was going to say- I've never worked with public feedback at even a 10th of the scale that the OS team does. But in my work I've learned a couple things- feedback is typically going to have a negative bias, we can't feel its personal on our work, but try and understand that person's perspective, what it is they value. And second that at the end of the day- my team and I have to trust each other, and those are the people that I am attuned to because we all share a common goal. Not random client #512 writing a thesis on how they would run the company and how I, specifically, am an idiot
First sensible person in this thread Attacks are never ok, telling jagex they fucked up is
Yeah, it's iterative. They're ultimately the game designers, they choose which suggestions to keep and which to can. Separately, are player bases (of most games including this one) too whiny? Also yes, but that's a separate problem than the iterative process.
OP feels personally liable for all negative feedback & wants you too also
Holy shit imagine having empathy towards the Devs who are the entire reason you get to play this game.
I mean to an extent I have sympathy to the devs, and only the devs, because they have to deal with us as assholes But jagex itself is a business and should be treated like such. There's nothing wrong with wanting the game you pay for to be good
None of the proposed changes are necessary so we should be taking it personally.
This
The thing is that people who are happy generally aren't the ones who make posts/comments. I'm sure the majority of people are either happy or indifferent to the changes. But they're not going to make posts saying "I'm perfectly happy with all of this now" and even if they did, it would either be downvoted by people who are negatively affected/care more, or just ignored in favour of a more engagement bait-y post. Reactionary "x change is bad" posts almost always do quite well for engagement and discussion. Hence why you don't see a single post saying "Soulreaper Axe changes are fantastic, well done Jagex" or "Thanks for monkey room update" on the front page, even though I'm fairly sure most people viewed those as positive changes.
Ironically, I'm pretty sure I saw a "Soulreaper is good now" post yesterday, but overall you're on point. Negativity is good for engagement.
On occasion, people excited or interested in a change are going to make a comment or post about it - I try to force myself to do it when I remember just so there is *some* positive feedback - but as a general point, people tend to be more willing to voice their opinion when they believe there is something to lose on the line.
i mean you see those posts every once in a while, just not that often because of the reasons you stated.
We should be nitpicking. These are big changes to the core of the game, and they arent being polled. They definitely need to be vetted in as many ways possible instead of blindly rolling them out. In fact, jagex is probably glad that the community is giving them a lot of feedback on it. That was the intention of the blog posts. If they didn't care, then they wouldn't seek the communities opinion.
Community engagement shows passion for the game which is good for longevity.
Why would they not be polled? They should really break these changes down and poll them to death. I think part of the problem with the approach that they're using right now is that it's too big of a change, which makes it too easy for details to get lost. When they rebalance things like they did with the blowpipe nerf, it's easy to understand/reason about. They should keep approaching things this way.
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/3co1eksrw9vc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b416cc8443790a63102d638c833623759851816 Replace the twitter logo with r/2007scape
This image should replace snoo as the reddit mascot
If any mods are reading this, just know that I’m proud of you and RuneScape has been my favorite game for 20 years. Thanks for keeping it alive and adding new content
These posts always confuse me. Most of the feedback I'm seeing is very reasonable and on point. Jagex clearer didn't fully think through all of the changes and wanted to get suggestions from the community. Sure there are some really rude people but they are by far the minority.
I've seen people actively claim boots do not need to be buffed even before the blog got update, both making posts and replying. The two factions were always there, it's silly to assume the same people are just being moody and nitpicky. As much as it might suck to sift through though, ultimately, getting this right is very important. We're not gonna be getting these huge rebalances often, it'll determine the future of the game for a long time. Toxic as it might sometimes be, Jagex is trying their best, and I believe they can put out something ultimately good, even if we have to go through this mess for a while to get there. And besides, there's always going to be a group that's unhappy with changes. The important bit is that feedback is being received and considered, regardless of whether or not it makes it into the game. Some unpopular ideas are genuinely good, and vice versa, all that's left is for Jagex to pick the best ones they can find and integrate them with their own.
Boots should be like rings where the specific ring stands way above but there's a balanced option like brimstone. Prims, Eternals and Pegs were all objectively shit. People not bringing them to switch is testament to that
Inventory space is already cramped and managing prayer is already somewhat tedious. Their proposed mid game magic buff is to move magic damage from a single inexpensive item to multiple other items and force you to use a prayer just to get the exact same damage. This is not a buff this is 100% a full big fat nerf to the weakest branch of the combat triangle in its most obvious need area while still resulting in the only area of magic that does not need a buff getting a buff.
Exactly. It’s also nice to do wildy content without risking 10 items. Occult is fine as is, game is designed around it.
For the most part I’ve seen predominantly constructive feedback, which Jagex is looking for. Seems like a productive discussion and I think both the players and Jagex would prefer it to players just blindly accepting any proposed change that comes along
The arguing and debating is just how you know us players care about the game. I'll be the one to join you in saying thank you to the mods for all that they do, even if they do Nerf my precious void waker.
I think the amount of feedback people give is great, but man, the threads that get upvoted always seem to be the most petulant and aggressive ones. Not to mention the fact there's always three or four threads with the same feedback just phrased in different ways, all heavily upvoted. Can't help but think in time the devs are just gonna get sick of putting up with it and stop coming here.
I doubt that, since the reason they put out so many blogs is expressly to gather feedback.
That'd be bad for jagex imo The wonderful devs are one of the best draws of osrs, if they take that away...I'm not sure what'll happen but it wouldn't be good
The problem is that we have a couple of issues that need addressing and they aren't doing so in a way that makes sense. 2 problems: occult is a lot of power in one item, and also mid game magic is very weak. Their solution: nerf mid game magic. ??????? Problem: nightmare's drop table is a nightmare and horribly unbalanced for the power of gear it drops. Their solution: make it slightly less shit but still shit. Problem: people that haven't thought things through think VW's guaranteed hit is OP. Their solution: keep pushing an unneeded nerf despite overwhelming negative feedback with good reasoning and alternatives provided. I truly do love the devs for what they do for us and the amazing game we all love. And some of the other changes are fantastic! SRA, maul, monkey room, etc, so happy for these. But it's hard to be happy about the patch overall when it means things that don't need nerfed are getting nerfed and things that need buffed are not given proper attention. A lot of the proposal updates feel not properly thought through, especially stuff like VW. If any jmod reads this I'm sorry I'm not trying to be mean but it literally feels like the majority of feedback is being ignored or nitpicked.
Stop. Its not that they arent thought out, its that their are many dimensions to each problem to consider. Its very time consuming for a team to go through all of those considerations which is why this feedback is necessary. Osrs is a big game, so when you go to rebalance equipment to try to solve a problem its very difficult to do it in a way that doesnt negatively impact the mid game, or end game, or a raid, etc etc etc. The community will never agree on what needs to be done because most people will vote for what benefits them which is the obvious pitfall of democracy. Jagex just needs to be the adult in this situation, look at the feedback they get on reddit/twitter/discord and make the right choices which imo it seems like theyre doing right now
"The community will never agree on what needs to be done because most people will vote for what benefits them which is the obvious pitfall of democracy" hoy shit You justo described argentina and it's wellfare system
I see where you're coming from, but the whole community is quite literally saying "Don't touch the Voidwaker" and "Improve lower level mage gear bonuses instead of buffing maxed gear only" and yet they keep ignoring that? DPS calcs have proved it time and time again that the Voidwaker is a niche spec weapon in PVM and is only useful because of it's special attack being what it is, it gets beaten out by Zaryte crossbow and Dragon claws in many places alongside other weapons too.
Nah they're a business, it's their job to make a game we want to play The mods themselves are great and I do feel bad when people are dicks to them on a personal level, but I think it's good to be vocal about the games direction
I don't. They chose this approach. They are creating just as many problems with each proposed solution. Instead of thinking more creatively, they just threw their hands up and decided to shuffle around what we already have to make room for future hypothetical content. I'm all for fixing what is clearly broken, but these types of changes seem like a terrible precedent to set every time Jagex feels creatively boxed-in.
Yeah honestly I agree. The devs are working really hard trying to make everyone happy and the fact is that's very hard. I think they are pretty close if the biggest point of contention now is VW and 6% magic damage for people doing super sweaty TOA/COX
This is a much better outcome than if they had spent all of the developers time making changes without gathering feedback.
It's almost like different groups of people with different opinions exist!
They can win, they just need to stop worry about what Reddit and Twitter goblins have to say about the propsals. Whatever changes they implement we just have to adapt. It's not like we can quit this digital version of pure crack cocaine. The amount of people crying about the Blowpipe was also massive. Anyone cry about it now? I don't see a single soul. Adapt and move on.
Op realising the subreddit is more than just one person: :o
That's not what this is though. We're (effectively) taking a nerf by NOT bringing eternals. Give damage to eternals, leave the rest as is, it's not rocket science. It's like if you were complaining that you didn't have a reason to bring prims, and they said okay and buffed prims by 3 str bonus, but took off 1 str bonus off BCP and tassets in exchange. Now I'm FORCED to bring prims and I'm punished for not doing so.
Support. Devs and mods working so hard to appease the community and also make good changes to the game that allow them to make good future updates. Thank the devs !
Nitpicky???? Nobody asked for this, they are forcing this on us
Most (good) players I know: before the change: "The number one thing I don't want to come out of this rebalance is damage on eternals" After first proposal: "Thank god they didn't put damage on eternals good job jagex nice instincts" After reddit whining: "God damn it"
literally true, am sweating now
There's nothing wrong with damage going to BIS boots because right now eternals and pegs are a joke. The problem is distributing damage in a way that made you now wear the boots to reach the same damage as before these changes. Nobody wants that.
I do agree they need a buff, but not while also nerfing other items to buff it. Personally I think add the 2% back to whatever item they took off to put on boots and just flat out buff boots by 1-2% so people don’t lose a max hit but good players who want to risk losing an extra brew can bring the boot switch.
Agree. I think more items with more use is so good. You don’t see anyone complaining about melee gear. Helm body legs boots cape ring gloves and shield all have their own individual melee strength, so why shouldn’t mage
Nobody complains because since melee is the only style with strength bonus in its boot slot this means you can camp that slot without losing out on DPS with other styles, which is good This would be the same if eternals were the only boots with damage bonus and prims only had defense and melee accuracy, you would just camp eternals to all content that requires multiple combat styles and nobody would complain Having a gear slot that is generally camped is just not a problem. Meanwhile buffing eternals and making them a necessary switch for anyone who prioritizes playing with optimal DPS setups does pose a problem, even if you want to argue it’s only for a marginalized group of players. The problem an eternal buff would solve has much better alternatives and this obsession with boots baffles me. This also isn’t exclusive to maxed players, mid level players being forced to do 10-way switches because every single gear slot gives them magic damage does not sound exciting
Don’t feel bad they’re suggestions are shit Rebalancing a game that demands 10000000s of hours is bound to go down badly They’re messing with peoples time while demanding so much time in the first place So yes we’re going to complain, if they want better progression with rebalance then make shit like imbued heart reasonable and so on and so on
People are going to complain no matter what changes are made.
Time for OSOSRS
There's a significant potion of the player base that just doesnt want any changes at all.
Amen
Huge shoutout to the devs! That actually made me laugh a little...after yesterday a good amount of people wanting eternals to have %dmg and then today "but wait that means an extra item swap" 🤣. People with their cake and all that.... I am glad we have have some of the best and most patient devs in the industry that actually listen to feedback (both good and bad). It gets a bit bumpy at times but I think mostly we get to a good spot eventually with updates.
ok this nuance is probably hard for you to understand but, the ppl asking for eternal buff and the ppl saying the don't want extra swaps are not the same people. hope that helps.
It’s almost like there is a large community of people with different opinions and tastes. So there is always going to be a group of people who dislike a change.
I think this kind of conversation is important for the whole community be from casual to sweaty. We all love the game and we all have different perspectives so open dialogue about purposes changes amongst hundreds of fans and players I think is kinda awesome
It's frustrating because they often mix *really good* ideas and *really bad* ones and then also throw in some *really bold, and some think it's bad but others see the point* ideas and then for good measure some *probably flawed but important ideas that require serious, lengthy, informed discussion* ideas all together, and so even as someone who can't stand how nasty the community is and hates joining the negativity, it's impossible to just say everything's fine, or I hate them, or I love them, etc.
They should stop using reddit as a form of accurate feedback. The loudest people in the community don't understand the nuance of the game but they make demands without thinking about how and why things are the way they are. The loudest people are also the most "casual" and don't represent the people who care about longevity. The loudest people also dont think for themselves and just regurgitate whatever the popular opinion is as if it's fact and smother anyone who disagrees. You're NEVER going to get an accurate representation of the entire community from reddit, because the downvote/upvote system buries any diversity in opinion into obscurity.
The community should just not say anything and let ahrims become dead content? I mean come on man they do want our feedback. There's always going to be assholes as well it's unavoidable.
And look how good the game is because of it.
Crying about needing an extra swap is not a valid reason, so Jagex wins actually, those people are ignored simple as.
I hate most of you
> Crybaby bitchfitting gatekeeping endgame pvmers go wahhhhh > Midgame zero game knowledge pvmers unwilling to acknowledge the mid-heavy power level > Early game pvmers not knowing how insane early game even is until they are outside the level for it And the grass keeps growing and the world keeps turning. Nothing changes.
I think there's good feedback and just useless opinions and complaining. THIS ISN'T RS3 PEOPLE! There is a lot of nitpicking because certain items should have a specific percentage.
*”it doesn’t matter what it is, someone online hates it”* This is why I’m so adamantly against the polling system in its current form. We’re not keeping osrs from barreling towards destruction. We’re allowing whoever screams the loudest to drive design direction, and then allowing it to potentially be a wasted effort (even though basically nothing fails anymore except PvP changes). The big problem with this specifically though is the philosophy jagex is sticking to — keeping magic power essentially the same with changes to how you get it — does nothing but pull the rug out from under it. The only way for these changes to not feel horrible is for them to concede that magic might be slightly more powerful, by redesigning the way magic damage works. That’s the big problem with it. It’s always been the big problem with it. It’s why you can use occult & mystic and get almost the same output as shadow.
As long as Jagex allows its community to keep its game in a box, it will never go anywhere
The main complaint I saw repeated was that the best in slot was getting the % made up for the losss from Occult. But slightly lower sets like infinity and others didn't get that damage replacement and therefore were nerfed in DPS at those levels/price points. I think that is compeltely valid feedback. The swapping and having to bring more gear complaints is pretty dumb though ngl.
It's really not that hard to make eternals relevant without forcing them into the current meta. Just give them an accuracy boost or give them mage % without taking it from occult.
The posts complaining about eternals were from people that had bought hundreds of them betting they'd get it and then they didn't. So to save their speculative gamble they started campaigning to get damage added to eternals. The posts weren't from people looking to actually use them in any sort of meaningful way, just to make GP. Now those posts won, and people that actually know what they're doing in this game are frustrated that they're taking a damage nerf or needing to run 9 way switches
I don't play end game content, but surely the idea of having specific strengths and weaknesses in attacks lends itself to having a team with specific roles, rather than a load of unnecessary swaps? Honestly I'm OK with this, and the new prayers that were community led, then attacked by the community, because they add to and enhance the game. It isn't eoc. The principle of how you attack and play remains fundamentally the same. The osrs community does properly suck sometimes.
Some of you sweaty nerds reading this need to brush off the Cheeto dust from your shirt that’s two sizes too small and go outside.
Agreed. This subreddit acts like it speaks for everyone but it really doesn’t, at least in my own experience. Lots of people in my discord groups are super excited for the changes and are having fun anticipating how metas could adapt.
They need to just stop listening to Reddit, say these are the nerfs and you’ll have to deal with it. Since they started listening this place has become a cesspit of crybabies, who know that they’ll get their way if they’re vocal enough.
Not listening to any feedback and letting the dev team do whatever they want on a whim is a great idea! As long as your objective is to kill the game. Go ahead and compare RS3’s numbers to OSRS’s. RS3 is a great example of what happens when the dev team does whatever it wants with no consideration for feedback.
No, actually not. This is what they signed up for, this is what the polling system is in place for. Were they given the free hand to design and balance every aspect of the game themselves, it would have been RS3 by now.
I don't feel bad about them at all. Trying to circumvent the poll system by calling their massive systems changes "rebalance". The scope is just way too big and we aren't being harsh enough about these changes, some obvious flaws that are nerfs are being focused on while the poorly designed buffs and other nonsense adjustments are being mostly ignored. Just scrap it, do one rebalance at a time, if it changes systems in the game, poll it.
they should just leave the game alone and ignore all the people complaining about things that have been the same for 20+ years in a game that is more popular than ever
Honestly I have never seen so many babies about one game. It's crazy. Let jagex cook and play along with it, not every single person's opinion should be noted. Like 1% magic damage here or there who cares.
Letting Jagex cook is how you get EoC. Feedback is fine
You seem to forget that different people have different opinions. It will always be difficult (if not impossible) to create something that everyone wants to see. Where large groups are involved, large groups have different opinions
Only a small percentage of people care about potentially bringing an extra swap to a raid and raids aren't the only endgame piece of content. Bring on the eternal buff
That’s because everyone begging for eternal buff doesn’t play the game/just wanted their merch to profit. Everyone who complained about the swaps actually plays the game and realized how shit of an idea it is
Anyone complaining they HAVE TO (they don't) bring 1 extra swap is a shitter. If that makes or breaks your gameplay, you just aren't good. Having boots have an actual use is a good thing.
My opinion is that Jagex needs to stop asking for community feedback. Back when eoc was a thing it made sense that we didn't trust Jagex with updates and content. Players should NOT design content. Especially high level players.
This title is literally what I typed in my clan chat this morning. Reddit moves the goal post EVERY SINGLE TIME Jagex compromises a tiny bit. Actually gross how much toxicity is inside this subreddit. For all you nerds who can't stand the thought of having to change your gear setups, Screw your "perfect 8-way swaps". Game is meant to be filled with choices, stop trying to remove them.
I'm very pleased with the new proposal except for the VW so overall I'll take it
the solution was to put in on prayer 10 fuckin years ago like melee and range and build out effects from that instead of letting it get to this clusterfuck of a gear mess we have. But going forward. yeah. its rough to balance
People begged for it. I think it's time Jagex runs a poll in-game.
They took on the project of rebalancing a ton of shit in the game, obviously there’s going to be a lot of feedback. People want different things. All this discussion is good and helps them to get it right. This post is pointless and not constructive.
I am someone who has come back to playing after a long, long break. It is incredible how many cool training methods, mini games, bosses, etc Jagex has added to the game. I’ve been making it a point to try all the new stuff (my mind was stuck in GWD era), and I can’t believe how much fun it all is. So much variety. They’ve done an amazing job with the game and I really hope they know that despite the constant criticism they seem to face.
The merchers who stockpiled stuff without a post about what was being buffed are the ones complaining boots and books didn’t get a boost. Lol tryna make profit off it.
You sound soft. Major gameplay rebalances should be heavily discussed and nitpicked.
Maybe they should just poll it so we can all vote no and they cancel everything.
> They just can't seem to win. This project rebalance shows how nitpicky this community is. How about they just FUCKING POLL THE DAMN CHANGES? Then maybe they would put in content the playerbase actually wants and shitcan the content they don't like? You know like they PROMISED they would do when osrs launched?
After the reading the posts from the last few days I was like wow this community sucks
People wanted a raw damage boost on eternals, not re-distribution of damage from somewhere else. Aside from shadow+ancestral, mage is lacking compared to range and melee, so just a straight buff to mage would've been acceptable. Jagex does do a decent job of hearing out the community tho
Reddit as a whole is an echo chamber for particularly negative feedback when in reality they are a minority of the player base. Jagex has data on this, they’re not losing sleep over it, I promise.
Yeah, it's pretty hard to get hundreds of thousands of people to all agree on something.
Amen lol
Discourse was happening from those suggestions as well. It's just finding solutions and finding the right balance. A lot of times ideas can come from the comminity or Jagex themselves. Also sometimes things are pitched and I realize 'Hey, why are we trying to make the Elden Maul a defense reduction spec weapon? Isn't there some cool guy wielding a two handed Dragon Maul at Nightmare of Ashihama at release. Why not release that to fill the two handed space and give the Elden Maul something else like operating like the Granite Maul or some powerful spec weapon to go alongside its already meaty crush stat'. Or I see the magic off hands, remember the Godbooks exist and go: "Hey why does the Book of War offer +2 Strength, Book of Law offers no +2 in Range Strength despite the next step up being a +4 in Range Strength with the Odium Ward. Then the Book of Shadow is 0% Magic Strength? Isn't a early game problem is making crossbows useful at earlier levels let alone elemental damage? Why not have these fill that gap? And adjust the magic off hand accordingly since the concern has been indirectly buffing the Shadow'. These projects create ideas or has us remember the thousand of other items or things already in-game to pull from. So we can have more thoughts, ideas, opinions and insight on the table. Honestly, the discourse is pretty healthy in comparison to other discourses we've had. It's big decisions being made and of course everyone will have different ideas.
While rs3 is not perfect. I think the osrs team needs to remember they can’t make everyone happy, and they mad people who’ve possibly smaller, are always the most vocal
Why would you feel bad? The point of these posts have been to gather feedback on proposed changes. This is what Jagex wants. Nothing to feel bad about.
I just think this blog post - community feedback - blog post format is kinda weird for whoever has to write the blog post. They could make an announcement for what they would like to change and say they will iterate with community feedback and do it in another format. They could do a series of polls or something.
You're right, they should just nerf occult to 4%, slap 3% on the ring, and 1% on each robe piece above mystics. Then take a couple of weeks off, they earned it.
Agreed. Man, I'd 100% quit my job if I had to deal with this subreddit for feedback. Sure, feedback is valuable and welcome. But does it really have to include "jagex doesn't know what they're doing?" every other post? Jfc this sub does love throwing in personal attacks. We are lucky to have devs that love the game as much as we do.
idk, I think most people agree that early and mid game magic doesn't need to be nerfed and if anything needs a buff to feel better. The original proposal gutted magic until late game. If i can get roughly the same DPS in the gear I would normally take (ahrims, torm, occult, mage book,) with maybe mystic might or eternals added, then I'll be pretty happy. It also smooths out the progression as damage is spread over those items instead of needing 93 slayer to get a single item. Having an extra switch isn't that much of a nerf, and it finally makes my eternals viable
The people that portion of the project rebalance effects are probably less than 10% of the player base as most players don’t have an occult necklace or eternal boots.
I think they are well aware that not everyone will be happy. Although, if they frequent this sub, I can imagine how demoralizing it can be with these posts. I know they can't hold a survey or poll every day, but I think this comes with the territory of pulling feedback from social media, especially reddit.
i think the clearest explanation here is that occult didnt need to be nerfed and its opening this huge fucking can of worms around how bad jaggy can be about balance and design when put on the spot.
really appreciate the caution the devs are using for the rebalance. they seem very aware of how rs3 combat was ruined
Yea THIS is what shows how nitpicky the community is. Its definitely not the years and years of voting no on quality updates because it would devalue something
you can't disagree with the people mad about the boots getting damage because they just put you in a little convenient "1500 total andy" box and completely disregard your opinion, regardless of if its true
Well, when you rebalance equipment that takes a long time to get, of course people are going to fire back. This game doesn't have many choices/builds for endgame compared to larger MMOs, so you are messing with everyones set up. This whole rebalancing situation needs to be scrapped. 93 slayer unboostable requirement to even get the occult should grant you the large magic upgrade. If anything, they should just make the occult untradable and locked behind 93 slayer and offer a different amulet/tradable with a 4% boost unlocked from a slayer mid lvl drop.
Clearly you don't work in tech because users are always like this and the check at the end of the day makes up for it.
Yeah people are gonna be picky about changes because none of these are going to be polled they are going to be forced into the game whether the majority of players want it or not, so of course everyone's gonna be arguing over what to change and put in
they literallt asked for our opinions? its good to hear from the players. so many companies dont and thats why their games are dogshit. remember when Jagex didnt listen to their players. EoC happened. criticism/feedback is good. harrasing and unhelpful spewing of hate like "this is dumb" is going to far imo
It would do osrs players good to play rs3 for a goddamn minute to be grateful for the wonderful updates and the sheer amount of love and care the OSRS devs have for the game. We got a whole goddamn month dedicated to Hero Pass. We get entire months of content dedicated to the single holiday event. We've been fucking starving since Necromancy meanwhile you guys get a new skill, a new continent and a huge graphics update in the span of like 3 months.
Thing is no one asked for this change.
Judging by half the comments on this thread, people think yelling at a McDonalds worker is okay because McDonalds is a billion dollar company
I don't think the majority of people are being too picky, I just think jagex consistently misses the "obvious" changes to make. For example, if you don't want to buff shadow, buff magic offhands. Or nerf shadow's multiplier and buff all magic gear, to equalize shadow and buff everyone else since magic sucks. They're asking for a lot of feedback too, so it's not totally out of line to be "picky" about something you think is better for the game, they want to get a lot of perspectives on the changes.
I think the most based take is that eternals and pegs shouldn’t be outright cosmetic upgrades. Wanting eternals to not be useless =! nerfing a bunch of gear and making 9 way switches a thing
They want debate and by gum we've given them something. I think the worst offender was Ahrims being shafted for having defense stats. It currently isn't being shafted and it seems the voidwaker is. As someone who has only read/looked at video for the voidwalker, I have no strong opinions. However, someone who has experience and graphs could provide more insight. So you have a lotta dissonant discussions happening by people with different viewpoints. I don't think that's the worst thing, especially because we can't vote on "Game Health" updates. I think the biggest problem is we don't have a civil relationship with Jagex. If we did, that would be really weird, considering the sheer number of random strangers, like myself, involved. I think it's made a little worse by the fact many OSRS players despise RS3/EoC for ruining the game they used to like and, subsequently, don't trust "Jagex." I think the OSRS devs are fantastic. I think they're receptive and they put in work. They're just painfully small for a studio that should have a much higher budget.
This subreddit has both high level players and 1600 total dads. Both groups are going to want vastly different changes to the game.
https://preview.redd.it/qjm1dj2rnbvc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1be6226274ba76494c343c55832df68b2fe2c76 This is more in line with what jagex is currently doing than what you are saying.
Agree. At this point, don’t listen to anyone and do what they think is best for the game. There is no outcome from this that will make everyone happy.
The best version of the game is when the community is critical and drives that change, the Jagex team seem to be very embracing of this. F1 drivers are known for their feedback that helps the engineers create the best vehicle possible, we are getting world class game development methods utilised on this game we adore
The rebalance for the 18th is a step in the right direction imo. They made some good quality changes to the boosts imo. I definitely think maybe ancestral should be 3.5%. Good Middle ground between 3 and 4 percent. Next, eldinis should maybe get a percentage raise to 5 instead of 3 or maybe added defence bonus to be worth it over the malediction. Malediction now will have the defence bonus and 2 percent matk bonus while eldinis has 3 percent matk and like no defence bonus. But way better than the first rebalance post imo. Jagex is listening and trying to make everyone happy.
They’re falling into the “player satisfaction” hole. They just need to do what’s necessary.
I personally think this attempt is way better.
It is so simple to understand. It's not as simple as people not coming to agreement. Jagex deems these changes as "Integrity". "Integrity" changes will not be polled Said "Integrity" changes are EXTREMELY controversial The polling system is the entire foundation that OSRS is built on and and the sole reason the game has amassed such success is because, ironically it helps maintain INTEGRITY and avoids CONTROVERSY It doesn't matter what side you are on, what's happening right now is going against everything that OSRS stands for. Reddit makes up 10% of the playerbase and not only that most of the people making these controversial threads are CASUAL players, and Jagex is taking most of their influence from them, there is a very clear issue with this and everything that's going on. We have already lowered the poll pasaing percentage to 70%, there is almost no reason to not poll changes like these. As soon as Jagex and the community realized how controversial these changes are, we should all agree, knowing that's exactly how OSRS has worked since the beginning, that they need to be polled. We are giving in to something that I believe will be the start of the destruction of OSRS. It truly is not the blog changes themselves. We are giving in to pressure from casual/needy players that dont want to play OSRS for what it is. They are getting way too comfortable constantly complaining and are NEVER happy. They will not know what they have until it's gone, and if we head in this direction, it will in fact be gone.
Coming to Reddit is probably the worst possible place to seek advice for the long term viability of this game. Everyone here is obsessed with “spooning” a green log on their iron man when they haven’t even completed the game on a main. Maxing on this game used to take a lot of time and effort
WOAH now!!! DISCUSSION? IN A FORUM FOR DISCUSSION? Burn it all down, apologize to the developers, and assume that no group consensus will ever be made and eternal war is the only solution. /s This is part of discussion and feedback. With this many changes, it takes time. Let the discourse run its course.
Having everyone hate it probably means it’s a good update tbh, too often people forget who the largest portion of the community is, and spoiler alert, I don’t think that majority has 93 slayer
I mean we pay for their job so I'm glad they listen.
Just make inferior hybrid or tribrid boots for the lazy people
Don't. People are too irreverent to huge companies. We and the devs are the game, entirely.
Love the idea that all of this adjustment of mage gear is just dancing around the fact that the shadow is the problem
if you want success you have to take criticism, why do you feel sorry for a successful gaming company, it comes with the territory, soft ass take tbh
I haven’t played for a little while now. I don’t get why is the rebalance even needed?