Braindead take, bots also exist on rs3 in proportion to bots on osrs. You think its difficult to use eoc when stuff like revolution exists that just plays the combat for you and that works for 95% of the bosses?
I think people forget how many people in rs3 altscape, assume half of them have at least an ironman and your actual number is much lower than 20k.
And dxp is returning.
> Braindead take, bots also exist on rs3 in proportion to bots on osrs
[We have data straight from Jagex proving this wrong](https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1avr7k2/interesting_data_from_jagexayizas_recent_reddit/)
Except that they're right. If we use the current player numbers higher up in the thread, the proportion of players in RS3 to OSRS is about 1:7.65
Looking at the calculations in thread you posted, it was determined that the estimated bot ratio from RS3 to OSRS is 1:7.1
Of course, both of those calculations make a TON of assumptions, but at face-value, OSRS actually has slightly less bots than would be expected when comparing the player base. Math is hard.
Are you unable to understand that was posted 2 months ago? For someone saying math is hard condescendingly you have a pretty hard time with reading comprehension. The entire post is less than a paragraph and you still managed to miss the part where RS3 had only 4x less players back then and not 7 like today.
> For someone saying math is hard condescendingly you have a pretty hard time with reading comprehension
No, but do you?
>Of course, both of those calculations make a TON of assumptions, but at face-value
Because I seem to cover the fact that my calculations made assumption right here in this sentence, thanks.
If i wasnt clear, my example would mean if osrs has 10x the players of rs3 then rs3 would have 1/10 the amount of botters compared. There has to be an equilibrium due to the nature of botters selling gold for money.
Yes I understand, but OSRS has (at least 2x, but probably more like 4x) the amount of bots. They're probably easier to program and the gold is easier to sell, is my assumption
idk why youre getting downvoted i use the runelite bot plugin and 90% of non ironmen are bots its actually insane anyone saying the game isnt overun just dont know abd must be new. there has always been bots but never like this. and they are all smart now the wilderness ones talk and change prayer and say gf, the lms ones are legit terminators now
The guy who made the first Colosseum script used an AI. The script literally wrote itself through trial and error. Imagine a bot that's trained itself since tutorial island on how to play the game. No human interaction, just a bot that has plowed through every piece of content learning at every single step. We will reach a point where Jagex releases a difficult piece of content and a bot will be the first to beat it.
5 different names, exact same gear, all 5 click a hill giant to attack it as soon as it spawns. Even if you attack it first. After they kill the hill giants all 5 of them bury the bones at the exact same time.
Rune scimmy, chain, legs, str ammy and kite.
Names are gibberish.
Care to explain osrs views on youtube compared to rs3? Top rs3 content creators get 2-5k views compared to hundreds of osrs content creators getting tens to hundreds thousands of views. Are they botted views too?
RS3 content creators: The same shit theyve said 20 times
OSRS: New stuff and interesting things
Gee, I wonder why no one wants to hear the same thing that was said 19 times already?
Or the overly complicated interface setup confusing people what's what. Doesn't help their camera is set far so seeing pvm content is just confusing. Those are the reason I will not watch any rs3 pvm content.
Rs3 interface is not user friendly and is awful for videos.
Look at OSRS creators, majority of them will play in fixed mode because it’s super simple and easy for viewers to follow along. Resizable/full screen is a bit harder to see on YouTube vids due to the zoom
But RS3 UI is all customisable, which means every player will have their own set up that suits their needs and screen size. But it’s just so overwhelming for a viewer.
You're right about that. I tried getting back to rs3 mobile only but I hated the customizable interfaces and unable to switch to legacy interface. I decided that rs3 wasn't for me anymore.
Agree on the mobile ui being weird but what i find most off putting about rs3 is i tried it did the tutorial got pooped out in a weird place and havent really touched it since i logged in a few times and because i was an osrs memeber i had some keys or something? Idk i used them and now i have a few skills that are like 20 odd and ive never actually played the game.
I know in the grand scheme of things 20 in a skill is nothing and wouldnt take much time to get in game but ive never actually spent time in the game so that just doesnt feel right.
No. And it doesn't correlate.
I still watched osrs videos when I didn't play the game. And thousands of people are like that.
The point is, there are a shit ton of bots.
This has been the case since 2015 or so, but it's much more so these days. I don't know what will happen with the curve, but it will probably even out as RS3 gets smaller and smaller. It's behind early access indie games on Steam at this point.
I have 14000 hours on rs3 between 2010-2016ish. Crazy to see just how runescape has held on, evolved, and ended up as something I'll probably be able to share with my kid down the line. What a unique thing.
FWIW I don't game on my laptop so I don't even have steam installed, and i'm sure a lot of other users are in the same boat (also mobile). So i'm not sure how relevant steam is to gauge the population of this game.
The player count is listed on the RuneScape website aswell as various third party player counters. I do feel like mmo-population .com counts osrs and rs3 in the same count though
It's super sad. I had 120 all / trim completionist on RS3 before pivoting to OSRS and I would occasionally log in for updates but was inactive for the better part of the past 3-4 years. When the necromancy skill came out I was super stoked and after getting it to 120 I was motivated to continue playing for a bit only to get slapped across the face with the hero pass. I have logged in a couple of times since but the state the game is in and the sheer lack of running into other players makes it nothing but depressing.
> When the necromancy skill came out I was super stoked and after getting it to 120 I was motivated to continue playing for a bit only to get slapped across the face with the hero pass.
Same here man.. Same here.. I went into a deep spiral during necromancy release.. my mother passed away that same week and i did the most unhealthy thing i could.. i buried my grief into the game barely slept for 2 weeks got 120.. i was in a rough spot.. then hero pass shit happened and i felt so betrayed ontop of my grief.. have not touched rs3 since and will never again..
E: i wont lie i was in that anger stage of grief at the exact wrong time for hero pass to come out and it 100% enraged me even more.
It is, the company has made a lot bad decisions with RS3 in regards to mtx, but the dev team has made a lot of good content over the years. There's a number of things implemented into osrs were based on something in rs3.
Jagex released their reports a year or two ago, despite the massive MTX bonus to RS3 and lack of players, OSRS is still producing more money than RS3. I’ll say though, RS3 isn’t *that* far behind OSRS. Just shows how much money people are spending on MTX.
We don’t know for the most recent year as Jagex didn’t include the breakdown in revenue for the two games in the most recent annual report. But for previous years, you can just read their annual reports and they show that osrs has been generating more revenue than rs3 for years.
It's honestly so sad seeing RS3 in the state it's in. OSRS has been my main game since I switched over in 2017, but I still care about the old game, and for a little while a few years ago, it seemed to be in an actually OK place; solid new content coming out at a decent ish pace, MTX being made *less* predatory, etc. But it took a huge nosedive since, and I can't bring myself to even log into it at this point.
I mean, for a lot of us RS3 was a big part of our lives for a long time. Even though I moved away from it I still want it to succeed, but right now it is absolutely languishing.
RS3 (2013-2024) is older Today than the 2007 backup was at the time of OSRS’s launch (2007-2013). Just to age all of us a bit. We were nostalgic for something that was only a couple years gone haha.
Stuff like Raids and Vorago before all the ridiculous powercreep is legitimately some of the most fun Ive had in Runescape.
but now every boss must be soloable so mechanics have gotten less interesting since your design scope is limited to everything being doable by 1 player.
Content wise RS3 is a in a good place. But most people are maxed and comped for years, so it's hard to please them.
Personally I love the quests over the last 5 years, especially the whole Gods timeline and ending, it was a crazy good experience.
MTX is MTX i mostly just ignore it
I mean kinda not really. Really just depends on what you expect and where you are in the game.
They spent months on the fort, and it's kinda worthless outside of mid-levels. Same way they spent months on Menaphos for a mid-level hub and it was DoA, and they said they wouldn't really do it again.
The seasonal quests are hit or miss depending if you enjoy them or not. I personally don't. I prefer older storylines, which they haven't touched in ages.
PvM wise, the game is in a really bad state unless you were a casual player that's now finally getting into PvM because of the massive amount of powercreep added. Every boss is "too easy" from a perspective of how strong players are, and the Jmods refused to address bosses because "it was too much work for the beta, so we'd rather not touch it and just add harder bosses later."
Which leads into the very same Jmods saying "the new hard bosses won't actually be hard until you push 1000's of enrage %." Even bosses like Rasial, which currently drop BIS for the second strongest combat style, is fully AFK'd months after it's release.
Their design and vision is just bad and needs a fundamental shift, combined with investors wanting to see higher returns on a dwindling playerbase causing them to push even more aggressive MTX, which pushes more and more people away.
> They spent months on the fort, and it's kinda worthless outside of mid-levels. Same way they spent months on Menaphos for a mid-level hub and it was DoA, and they said they wouldn't really do it again.
Menaphos looks and feels amazing though and there is some stuff to do there achievement wise.
>The seasonal quests are hit or miss depending if you enjoy them or not. I personally don't. I prefer older storylines, which they haven't touched in ages.
What do you mean by seasonal quests?
>What do you mean by seasonal quests?
They moved onto "seasonal storylines" type updates where things tie together along with the narrative, generally with a lot of small quests or mini-quests
IE https://runescape.wiki/w/Legacy_of_Zamorak_quest_series
https://runescape.wiki/w/Fort_Forinthry_quest_series
GWD3, Arch + Battle for Obelisk, etc.
The older quests weren't released b2b2b2b2b broken up as smaller miniquests if needed to fill months with 0 updates. They were just released.
It's not like they held Monkey Madness until it was "gnome season", they just dropped Monkey Madness.
It's just part of RS3's way to add lore in various methods. They tried PvM drops but loreplayers suck at PvM and complained, they tried MTX events and people complained, so they went with different avenues.
I think you also have to realize that a lot of the older quests were literally just dropped in by new interns.
They need to have parallel teams working on quests then.
But currently I don't even think there are that many storylines with loose ends in general, so it makes sense that they want to make new continuous storylines.
To be fair, they mostly finished the older storylines, Gnome and Desert are basically the only ones left. Meaning that they need to pull a Zeah to make new"small storylines"
OSRS has been pulling in more than RS3 with regularity for quite some time.
2022 Difficult to calculate as no real mention of % is made. Revenue went up to 137m and Subscription revenue went up 15%, MTX revenue went down 6%. Logically this should point to OSRS being on the rise again.
2021 OSRS £64m vs 61.2m for RS3
2020 OSRS £69m vs £51m for RS3
2019 OSRS £65m vs £43m for RS3
2018 OSRS £42m vs £47m for RS3
2017 OSRS £32m vs £52m for RS3
Anyone can search "Company House Jagex" and confirm the data above.
Oh yeah none of these numbers surprise me whatsoever.
Huge reason I never take any pleasure in RS3 finally dying is that it's effectively propping this game up as the long term investment despite far lower per user profits, and has been for years.
Once it's gone if Jagex shareholders still have a gap to fill, and IF they really need to make up the revenue, we have to hope they just go for membership prices and nothing else.
Yes, but mtx makes up a huge portion of jagexs income. So if rs3 went down, and the majority of mtx with it (not all, cuz osrs bonds are also mtx). This would probably mean stuff would have to change dramatically. Cuz there are certain things that kagex spends money on that aren't game specific. Like say the jagex headquarters or servers. Jage would likely have to down size dramatically if rs3 went down.
It quite literally, from their own reports, doesn't.
RS3 has dramatically more overall employees than OSRS, even including the shared departments.
They could lose the entirety of MTX income and still be heavily in the green.
Maybe but osrs has a history of people not tolerating big changes in their game, I think it would risk their profits a bit too much. Plus if the game dies so does jagex and their investment goes to the ground, losing them money.
Not really, they split the revenue and it's listed.
102m Subscriptions vs 34.5m MTX as of last year, if MTX is considered bonds as well, it's even more in favour of "subs".
Sadly RS3 is beyond recovery. There are too many problems that have been caused by aggressive MTX/lootboxes etc on the one hand, and an inconsistent and constantly changing vision on the other.
It's absolutely not beyond recovery. If the lootboxes and portables were removed, it would instantly help the health of the game. Unfortunately, the corporate overlords want to push the monetization harder, not less.
I think mtx is at the point where removing it would do more harm than good, for a variety of reasons that aren't very simple. This isn't to say they shouldn't do something about it, but just to say that the game won't be fixed just because of it.
It's not like RS3 would just announce "we removed treasure hunter" and the game would fly up to 100k players, it might gain a couple hundred at best.
But now you have the problem where the company owning jagex sees that they just dropped the source of 40% of all their revenue, and they're going to be pissed. They either force them to adopt new aggressive monetization methods to make up for it, put it back, or fire developers to make up for the cost.
Option 1 and 2 means people won't come back because they knew it was too good to be true. Option 3 means the people who were tentative to play again after seeing mtx removed just won't see any other reason to return when all new updates completely stagnate.
Other than that you have the problem where some strange portion of the community is deeply ingrained in the mtx. They nerfed the power of some MTX items like proteans and slayer wildcards recently and people were MAD, like actually mad that they lost out on free xp they might have gotten with their future spins. Same with the nerfs to the oddment shop keys, where players got less power out of what they were spending and some portion of the community got really upset they would get less out of their irl money spent.
They didn't change existing items, only that any items obtained in the future are now a nerfed version. ie the new unstable items cannot be used for double xp weekend.
I would play rs3 and osrs if we could play Both at the same time.
Of course most of my time would go to osrs. But the fact you have to pick what one to be on is a dumb ass decision design.
Nobody playing rs3 regrets not jumping ship lmao. A lot of rs3 players play osrs as well. The ones who don't, don't care about osrs. A lot of rs3 players just want their game to be successful.
Just like how there is a minority of shitters in the OSRS community that shit on RS3, there is a minority of shitters in the RS3 community that shit on OSRS.
I don’t think they regret not jumping ship, but sunk cost fallacy and the nostalgia/connection you feel playing the same character you played since you were a child is definitely a massive factor.
I wish there wasn’t so much bad blood between the different versions tbh. I occasionally pop over to RS3 for a week or two, and have fun when I do. It’s got a lot of issues, obviously, but it has gotten some things right over the years and can still be enjoyable.
The MTX’s are truly awful, though.
"Bad blood" mainly exists on reddit and is propagated by a small minority who have A) nothing more important going on in their lives and B) hilarious insecurity.
I just feel numb at the fact that Rs3 is dying because our Corporate overlords want to make revenue. I got like 7k hours on Rs2/3 and 3k hours on OSRS. I'm just scared that if they don't fix Rs3 and bring in more players, OSRS will be targeted to increase revenue to make up for any loses Rs3 inccures in the future.
I gravited away from Rs3 after I got 120 necromancy, and focused all my attention on OSRS. I don't think I'll go back in the foreseeable future. I get that some player find it funny that Rs3 is dying, without seeing the danger ahead for OSRS. Never underestimate the power of greed. I dont want OSRS to ever get MTX.
That should be common sense :/ but you can always trust the corporates to fuck things over. Let's just hope common sense prevails. In fact, let's hope they fix RS3 and slowly move away from MTX to focus on better content to draw new players in. I just want OSRS to continue to thrive. Love this damn addiction—I mean game. Love this damn game.
I don’t get why this sub has such a hard-on for bashing RS3. As soon as RS3 dies, the MTX is going straight to OSRS, unpolled. The executives and investors don’t give a fuck about devs or the players.
When osrs players haven't actually played rs3 so they just blindly hate and don't actually give the game a chance even though they'd likely have alot of fun if they looked past the tribalism
I've played both versions starting in 06, hate all you want, Ive poured hundreds... Thousands? Of hours into RuneScape, the best version of RuneScape is just having a shit ton of fun and letting the haters keep hating
Even despite EoC, RS3 was pulling in more players than OSRS for quite a while. While most OSRS players hate EoC, there was room for RS3 to be a real competitor alongside OSRS. I actually quite enjoyed the high-skill bosses they managed to come out with, Telos was very well designed.
The true divergence in the game is that OSRS has actually implemented quality updates that prioritize user experience while RS3 has more or less been focused about squeezing every dollar out of their remaining players with loot boxes and MTX.
i get your point, but there are plenty of encounters in osrs that have way more to consider than just that. the colo's final boss is a perfect example and that fight is designed beautifully.
The true bottom line is that RS2 ( therefore RSC ) just sucked in general when it came to bosses, as in gameplay wise ( not that kbd, mole or kq had any good loot ) Both RS3 and OSRS understood that shit needs to change and now we live in a time where Scurrius a boss thats meant to be an entry to bossing shits on the boss design that RS2 had in general ( Nomad was cool but that was a quest boss ). I remember Tormented Demons and Glacors having much better design than bosses
EoC carries the fuck out of what's left of Rs3 and it's funny to me that some people don't understand that because their conception of EoC is stuck on the version that shipped 12 years ago.
I wouldn't expect you to get it because judging from your replies you're either a child or severely mentally challenged but it's interesting that it's such a popular sentiment/boogieman in the osrs community when it's really the one thing rs3 players are broadly consistently happy with.
The fact that people think its just "another ability based system but worse than others" is just further ignorance tbh. Defensive abilities, constant use of consumables and adrenaline in general makes it actually quite unique amongst the other MMOs and it doesnt have holy trinity style either.
Sadly not. Mmg the Eoc at the time had made the choice to push Eoc alone i think it was like 80% of the devs disliked it. He owns his own gaming studio now.
I almost wish we at RS3 rebranded in a way from the RuneScape name.
I think when most of us think RuneScape it comes with a very nostalgic thought of a point and click game, and not the ability based game we have now.
I think the names brings unnecessary competition for the games and does a disservice to an otherwise really good game
I've been saying this for a long time. OSRS is RuneScape.
RS3 is the cheap knockoff with gacha mechanics, lootboxes, and battle passes, complete with a cartoony Fortnite-wannabe art direction.
I think that’s harsh on RS3 but I know I’m biased. I find RS3 to be a game that, outside of the MTX, is driven by lore, bossing, and stretching the limits of mechanics.
It’s a game that is allowed to be driven by the developers decisions and not just the players, leading to really good and really bad choices.
Honestly, some RS3 content and lore is amazing and I wish OSRS would steal more stuff.
But the art design is terrible. So cluttered and flashy. You go to OSRS GE and it’s some looks you recognize, some new stuff, some pets. You go to RS3 GE and it’s like a rave of random flashing MTX shit. I’d like RS3 a lot more if it were more recognizable. The style that I knew and loved has been completely trampled on. Other than the absurd mtx of course, this is my biggest gripe with RS3.
Andrew was counting the Millions upon millions of Pounds before leaving, he was likely thinking about how his grandkids will have a better childhood than him, doubt he looked like that
It's honestly sad that after playing rs3 for a little bit on the OG, it feels like it regressed into a mobile game to where you can play the game and make in-game currency, but the economy is so shit. Ranarr seeds are 2k. Snapdragons are 2k. What used to be a fundamental staple for what is required everywhere is now cents to the dollar. The content is there. Something osrs needs more of. Content you can do with friends that isn't in the wilderness or raids that is fun.
Pay the swap tax and move everything to OSRS...... rs3 is a corpse. started my osrs acct in dec 2023 and its already just under 2050 total level.
Join us
I'm not sure how many RS3 devs are longer standing ones. I was under the impression a lot of them were newer-ish (or at least post split).
It's bad management and likely a bad mod or 2 that's really got RS3 going down. Too many microtransactions, probably one of the worst new player experiences (the UI is horrendous and really difficult for a new player to setup, source a friend who wanted to try it), and the lack of overall interesting updates to make people want to come back. Not everyone is always wanting to repeat the same content without any hope of something new to grind towards.
I genuinely worry that RS3 might not have a future which would make us the next target for big microtransaction hell somehow.
Lol, I love it when RS players fight amongst themselves. Especially when OSRS players think that their game is "the better one" when in reality it's the worse one by a long shot. Which makes it infinitely more hilarious knowing that both games are absolute dogshit because they rank even lower than actual cash grab mobile games that are literally soulless shells meant to capture as many addicts as possible, and neither game is even able to compete with that.
> Which makes it infinitely more hilarious knowing that both games are absolute dogshit because they rank even lower than actual cash grab mobile games that are literally soulless shells meant to capture as many addicts as possible, and neither game is even able to compete with that
I don't care about rankings or player counts, I like playing games not looking at charts representing them. They're both good games
You say that but most people judge a game by popularity and management only cares about what makes good money. I know hundreds of games that are ultra popular and they couldnt miss me with its mediocrity any better if they tried but its the world we live in.
Ok, but so what? What can I do with the information that other games are more popular and some people like games solely because they're more popular? I still like playing the games I like. This is not affected by gatcha games with hundreds of times the playerbase existing.
Am I supposed to be scared they're going to start implementing gatcha mechanics or something? Because with how the playerbase and dev team are here I'm not concerned about that in the slightest.
You have every right to like dogshit if you want to do so, but facts are facts.
OSRS is a terrible game. Over 90% of your gameplay is just you clicking once and walking away 10-15 minutes at a time. You're legitimately not even playing the game. Even when it comes down to PVE there's a limit to how much engagement you get out of it due to how the game itself is structured, and how the devs attempt to implement difficulty into the game. Instead of pushing the game's difficulty through unique and standard interactions and methods the devs push it via APM. Which in turn removes all skill from the game, and turns it into a repeat X pattern to accomplish Y task simulator on all levels of play in and out of PVE.
RS3 on the other hand is arguably more of a real game than OSRS will ever be. You at least get to play the actual game instead of it playing you when you turn Revolution off. Every input you make actually matters and influences the game. Difficulty/skill isn't expressed via repeat X pattern to finish Y task, but is expressed via you actually playing the game and using actual in-game mechanics to do so.
The only problem with RS3 is that it has a lot, and I mean a lot, of rollover from RS2 which holds it back insanely hard. That, and the devs for RS3 are no better than the devs for OSRS. The devs are as equally incompetent as one another because they keep trying to emulate 07 RS when they should be abandoning that mindset, and should be adopting modern ones and looking towards ideas that actually work like those of what Albion Online have implemented.
I'm convinced some people just think "game with MTX = more profitable than game without, no exceptions". These games are living proof that that logic is garbage, and they've been proof of it for years.
I'm not saying your wrong, but dont underestimate microtransaction whales. Something around 20% of players typically account for 80% of profits. Thats why microtransactions cater to those 20% of players willing to dish out big bucks for cosmetics / boosts or what have you.
Edit: I'm referring to only mtx in the wider gaming sphere. Obviously a business model around subscriptions changes this math substantially.
Jagex tax reports are public, for 2022, microtransactions accounted for 32.4m of their revenue, subscriptions accounted for 102m.
Even if we assume "microtransactions" is *only* RS3 and doesn't include bonds, and the player split in the top comment by sir_snuffles is representative of total player split (20k rs3 vs 130k osrs, or about 13.5% rs3 players)...
Then RS3, between microtransactions and subs brings in about 46m in revenue compared to OSRS with 88.3m from subs alone.
It's not quite that much of a discrepancy, it's relatively close to 50% to each.
In previous years they posted the EXACT amount of money both games generated and you can then figure out from the % difference year on year that they continue to post.
2022 Difficult to calculate as no real mention of % is made. Revenue went up to 137m and Subscription revenue went up 15%, MTX revenue went down 6%. Logically this should point to OSRS being on the rise again.
2021 OSRS £64m vs £61m for RS3
2020 OSRS £69m vs £51m for RS3
2019 OSRS £65m vs £43m for RS3
2018 OSRS £42m vs £47m for RS3
2017 OSRS £32m vs £52m for RS3
Revenue, I imagine OSRS is much more profitable given how many less staff are supporting it.
I edited my post, it's fairly detailed in the revenue for both games until 2022, sadly they're too ambiguous with the reporting to narrow it down past generic guesswork.
Considering 1 subscription covers both games, it's likely that the sub revenue was being evenly divided, and osrs just surpassed rs3 bonds+mtx with osrs bonds in the numbers you provided.
In reality, the sub revenue is very likely going to be for one game or the other, especially given that you can't play both osrs and rs3 at the same time (or I would've tested out rs3 myself a long time ago).
There's no guesswork required for 2017 > 2020, those four years Jagex literally tell you how much each game earned. I'm sure they have a method to figuring out which game the sub is allocated to (playtime?) or some other metric.
They started being ambiguous about which game was earning what in the last report, likely because RS3 has down trended massively and OSRS is still looking strong year on year.
>There's no guesswork required for 2017 > 2020, those four years Jagex literally tell you how much each game earned.
Splitting the sub numbers evenly would've made rs3 look better as osrs had more players than rs3 for that entire span. If they're willing to just consolidate everything to cover up rs3's downtrend, I don't see why they wouldn't have split it like that.
Yeah I was oy referring to profits from mtx specifically across the whole gameing industry, not accounting for games sales and subscriptions or other forms of revenue. I've edited my original comment to mae this clearer.
There is no need to throw made up numbers around when those statistics are public. In 2022 74% of all the revenues came from subscriptions. That means jagex gets 26% of their revenues from mtx including old school bonds. We dont know how large portion of that is bonds but probably little bit over 20% of income jagex gets is from rs3 mtx
I wasn't referring to runescape alone. I was referring to the gameing landscape and mtx in general. Obviously a huge portion of total invome for runescape specifically is subscriptions, thats why I said "Im not saying your wrong" at the start.
Yes, in games with mtx, most profits come from small number of whales. But osrs vs rs3 is great example that you dont need to make your game p2w of full of buayable cosmetics to make it profitable. Good, fair, non pay to win game can be more profitable than shitty pay to win game
Yeah i really do agree. Osrs is a great example of a profitable game that is fair to its players.
It's worth noting however, that its not a 'perfect' comparison, (though it's likely as close to one we'll ever see in the real world). Rs3 isn't the exact same game as osrs but with microtransactions. There are more reasons than just the shitty mtx as to why rs3 is a failing game.
Additionally, a fith of your profits coming from 1/7th (arguably less) of your playerbase in a failing version of your game could be construed into a good argument for why predatory microtransactions do in fact work.
Just my two cents
I think a lot of it also has to do with the osrs mobile app bringing in a lot of fresh players. The rs3 mobile app crashes every few minutes and is unusable.
What content are you doing when it crashes? I play regularly and haven't had it crash yet. Osrs mobile app is better, I just wish I could make the inventory bigger.
No specific content, right from the beginning going through on a new account it just crashes Non-Stop. Looking at the comments on the app in the app store it would appear that that's pretty common place for a lot of people. So unless they fixed it within the last few months I'd say you're probably an outlier.
ETA: to note this is also on an Android phone not an iPhone or a tablet so I don't know if the app would work better on one of those
>Rs3 has to make more money with MTX right?
No, it makes much more per player but less overall.
>Or else why waste money on a dev team?
It still makes money. That's like asking why the Coca Cola company doesn't pull Fanta off the shelves.
You either die a hero, or live long enough to become a villian. Or you die and get resurrected and eventually become a hero again. And then the cycle starts over
Rs3 ironman seems to be the way to play rs3 since theres no mtx. I recently tried it but was put off by the UI and looting system.
The EOC combat is also incredibly boring. Idk about end game but somehow the early game combat in OSRS where you hit 50 zeros on a goblin is more exciting than EOC.
total player count this evening is 153k of which only about 20k is rs3. osrs is more popular than it's ever been it's crazy
Bots are cheaper to run on osrs. A regular desktop can run like 20 oldschool bots, I'd assume you can run a couple of rs3 bots due to graphics.
Min graphics rs3 looks closer to a potato than osrs
Everything is a blob in low settings on rs3, at least it’s flat pixels on low settings on osrs.
Braindead take, bots also exist on rs3 in proportion to bots on osrs. You think its difficult to use eoc when stuff like revolution exists that just plays the combat for you and that works for 95% of the bosses?
I think people forget how many people in rs3 altscape, assume half of them have at least an ironman and your actual number is much lower than 20k. And dxp is returning.
> Braindead take, bots also exist on rs3 in proportion to bots on osrs [We have data straight from Jagex proving this wrong](https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1avr7k2/interesting_data_from_jagexayizas_recent_reddit/)
Except that they're right. If we use the current player numbers higher up in the thread, the proportion of players in RS3 to OSRS is about 1:7.65 Looking at the calculations in thread you posted, it was determined that the estimated bot ratio from RS3 to OSRS is 1:7.1 Of course, both of those calculations make a TON of assumptions, but at face-value, OSRS actually has slightly less bots than would be expected when comparing the player base. Math is hard.
Are you unable to understand that was posted 2 months ago? For someone saying math is hard condescendingly you have a pretty hard time with reading comprehension. The entire post is less than a paragraph and you still managed to miss the part where RS3 had only 4x less players back then and not 7 like today.
> For someone saying math is hard condescendingly you have a pretty hard time with reading comprehension No, but do you? >Of course, both of those calculations make a TON of assumptions, but at face-value Because I seem to cover the fact that my calculations made assumption right here in this sentence, thanks.
Take the huge L bro.
Do you have an argument or do you think this is twitter lol
Rs3 is the better game.
He's not right, but saying the rs3 bots are in proportion to osrs is, in fact, a fucking braindead take..
no he is right in proportion, 20k rs3 players so a few thousand are likely bots
That's just not right. It's not in proportion.. OSRS has relatively way more bots than rs3
that's cute you dont understand proportion
Okay.
You think botters just stop at osrs because eoc sucks? Lmao
No, they're definitely there, but no-where near OSRS scale..
Where is your evidence that has convinced you of this so surely?
If i wasnt clear, my example would mean if osrs has 10x the players of rs3 then rs3 would have 1/10 the amount of botters compared. There has to be an equilibrium due to the nature of botters selling gold for money.
Yes I understand, but OSRS has (at least 2x, but probably more like 4x) the amount of bots. They're probably easier to program and the gold is easier to sell, is my assumption
yes content is harder to automate but I was referring to rs3 requiring more computer resources per bot
I'm sure the 145k difference is all bots, true
didn't say that. but it's a factor.
idk why youre getting downvoted i use the runelite bot plugin and 90% of non ironmen are bots its actually insane anyone saying the game isnt overun just dont know abd must be new. there has always been bots but never like this. and they are all smart now the wilderness ones talk and change prayer and say gf, the lms ones are legit terminators now
The guy who made the first Colosseum script used an AI. The script literally wrote itself through trial and error. Imagine a bot that's trained itself since tutorial island on how to play the game. No human interaction, just a bot that has plowed through every piece of content learning at every single step. We will reach a point where Jagex releases a difficult piece of content and a bot will be the first to beat it.
because this is an 07 forum, which has an 07 bias, and my comment can be interpreted in disfavour of 07 and in favour of rs3
And a 3rd of those are bots.
osrs has more bots than rs3 has players lol. though i doubt it's a third, more likely 1/5
man that's just depressing
With the sheer amount of bots I see daily I would say 1/3 is a fair assumption.
So entirely anecdotal? You fit right in on Reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1avr7k2/interesting_data_from_jagexayizas_recent_reddit/
Unless you have proof then it’s all hearsay right now. You would have to be crazy to think it’s lower than that.
Based on which evidence? You made a claim so show your evidence to back it up. You seem pretty confused here.
Accurate. Started a group ironman with my dad and brother and got to killing hill giants in edgeville dungeon, and it's just full of bots. It's nuts.
How do you know they're bots?
5 different names, exact same gear, all 5 click a hill giant to attack it as soon as it spawns. Even if you attack it first. After they kill the hill giants all 5 of them bury the bones at the exact same time. Rune scimmy, chain, legs, str ammy and kite. Names are gibberish.
Yea that's a pretty good indicator lol
F2P has a lot of bots. P2P not so much
Care to explain osrs views on youtube compared to rs3? Top rs3 content creators get 2-5k views compared to hundreds of osrs content creators getting tens to hundreds thousands of views. Are they botted views too?
RS3 content creators: The same shit theyve said 20 times OSRS: New stuff and interesting things Gee, I wonder why no one wants to hear the same thing that was said 19 times already?
Or the overly complicated interface setup confusing people what's what. Doesn't help their camera is set far so seeing pvm content is just confusing. Those are the reason I will not watch any rs3 pvm content.
Rs3 interface is not user friendly and is awful for videos. Look at OSRS creators, majority of them will play in fixed mode because it’s super simple and easy for viewers to follow along. Resizable/full screen is a bit harder to see on YouTube vids due to the zoom But RS3 UI is all customisable, which means every player will have their own set up that suits their needs and screen size. But it’s just so overwhelming for a viewer.
Nah that's cope. People don't struggle watching WoW vids lol
You're right about that. I tried getting back to rs3 mobile only but I hated the customizable interfaces and unable to switch to legacy interface. I decided that rs3 wasn't for me anymore.
Agree on the mobile ui being weird but what i find most off putting about rs3 is i tried it did the tutorial got pooped out in a weird place and havent really touched it since i logged in a few times and because i was an osrs memeber i had some keys or something? Idk i used them and now i have a few skills that are like 20 odd and ive never actually played the game. I know in the grand scheme of things 20 in a skill is nothing and wouldnt take much time to get in game but ive never actually spent time in the game so that just doesnt feel right.
No. And it doesn't correlate. I still watched osrs videos when I didn't play the game. And thousands of people are like that. The point is, there are a shit ton of bots.
There sure is nobody can doubt that. But simply saying 1/3rd is bots is crazy when social media on all platforms outnumber rs3.
Shit ton of bots yeah. Still 2-3x more the actual player count even factoring bots.
I don’t think there’s a correlation of 1, but you’re wild if you think that they’re not correlated.
always has been
Even bots don't wanna play RS3
While rs3 is also half bots so 10k real players lol
I'd wager that same amount as well. It wouldn't shock me if it were more.
This has been the case since 2015 or so, but it's much more so these days. I don't know what will happen with the curve, but it will probably even out as RS3 gets smaller and smaller. It's behind early access indie games on Steam at this point.
I have 14000 hours on rs3 between 2010-2016ish. Crazy to see just how runescape has held on, evolved, and ended up as something I'll probably be able to share with my kid down the line. What a unique thing.
Why does this seem like such a chatgpt response?
Beep Boop you got me I am robot
It just doesn't make sense to what you replied to.
FWIW I don't game on my laptop so I don't even have steam installed, and i'm sure a lot of other users are in the same boat (also mobile). So i'm not sure how relevant steam is to gauge the population of this game.
The player count is listed on the RuneScape website aswell as various third party player counters. I do feel like mmo-population .com counts osrs and rs3 in the same count though
It’s actually sad. I feel bad for the players and the devs who wanna make a fun game but can’t
It's super sad. I had 120 all / trim completionist on RS3 before pivoting to OSRS and I would occasionally log in for updates but was inactive for the better part of the past 3-4 years. When the necromancy skill came out I was super stoked and after getting it to 120 I was motivated to continue playing for a bit only to get slapped across the face with the hero pass. I have logged in a couple of times since but the state the game is in and the sheer lack of running into other players makes it nothing but depressing.
> When the necromancy skill came out I was super stoked and after getting it to 120 I was motivated to continue playing for a bit only to get slapped across the face with the hero pass. Same here man.. Same here.. I went into a deep spiral during necromancy release.. my mother passed away that same week and i did the most unhealthy thing i could.. i buried my grief into the game barely slept for 2 weeks got 120.. i was in a rough spot.. then hero pass shit happened and i felt so betrayed ontop of my grief.. have not touched rs3 since and will never again.. E: i wont lie i was in that anger stage of grief at the exact wrong time for hero pass to come out and it 100% enraged me even more.
It is, the company has made a lot bad decisions with RS3 in regards to mtx, but the dev team has made a lot of good content over the years. There's a number of things implemented into osrs were based on something in rs3.
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i bet if you asked the rs3 devs what they wanted to make it wouldnt be MTX, difference between executives and devs
The devs wanna get paid to make a fun game. The owners/investors or whatever just want the money
Devs don't care about that, they don't get paid more they'd rather be working on fun content than cash grabs
Well OSRS makes more money, so making a fun game = more players which = more money.
How do you know it does?
There was another comment, they released the numbers a few years ago.
Jagex released their reports a year or two ago, despite the massive MTX bonus to RS3 and lack of players, OSRS is still producing more money than RS3. I’ll say though, RS3 isn’t *that* far behind OSRS. Just shows how much money people are spending on MTX.
We don’t know for the most recent year as Jagex didn’t include the breakdown in revenue for the two games in the most recent annual report. But for previous years, you can just read their annual reports and they show that osrs has been generating more revenue than rs3 for years.
It's honestly so sad seeing RS3 in the state it's in. OSRS has been my main game since I switched over in 2017, but I still care about the old game, and for a little while a few years ago, it seemed to be in an actually OK place; solid new content coming out at a decent ish pace, MTX being made *less* predatory, etc. But it took a huge nosedive since, and I can't bring myself to even log into it at this point.
what a day to be alive. the kids are nostalgic for RS3. no /s no hate, i promise.
Time is a flat circle
I mean, for a lot of us RS3 was a big part of our lives for a long time. Even though I moved away from it I still want it to succeed, but right now it is absolutely languishing.
RS3 (2013-2024) is older Today than the 2007 backup was at the time of OSRS’s launch (2007-2013). Just to age all of us a bit. We were nostalgic for something that was only a couple years gone haha.
Stuff like Raids and Vorago before all the ridiculous powercreep is legitimately some of the most fun Ive had in Runescape. but now every boss must be soloable so mechanics have gotten less interesting since your design scope is limited to everything being doable by 1 player.
2016 rs3 was peak :(
Content wise RS3 is a in a good place. But most people are maxed and comped for years, so it's hard to please them. Personally I love the quests over the last 5 years, especially the whole Gods timeline and ending, it was a crazy good experience. MTX is MTX i mostly just ignore it
I mean kinda not really. Really just depends on what you expect and where you are in the game. They spent months on the fort, and it's kinda worthless outside of mid-levels. Same way they spent months on Menaphos for a mid-level hub and it was DoA, and they said they wouldn't really do it again. The seasonal quests are hit or miss depending if you enjoy them or not. I personally don't. I prefer older storylines, which they haven't touched in ages. PvM wise, the game is in a really bad state unless you were a casual player that's now finally getting into PvM because of the massive amount of powercreep added. Every boss is "too easy" from a perspective of how strong players are, and the Jmods refused to address bosses because "it was too much work for the beta, so we'd rather not touch it and just add harder bosses later." Which leads into the very same Jmods saying "the new hard bosses won't actually be hard until you push 1000's of enrage %." Even bosses like Rasial, which currently drop BIS for the second strongest combat style, is fully AFK'd months after it's release. Their design and vision is just bad and needs a fundamental shift, combined with investors wanting to see higher returns on a dwindling playerbase causing them to push even more aggressive MTX, which pushes more and more people away.
> They spent months on the fort, and it's kinda worthless outside of mid-levels. Same way they spent months on Menaphos for a mid-level hub and it was DoA, and they said they wouldn't really do it again. Menaphos looks and feels amazing though and there is some stuff to do there achievement wise. >The seasonal quests are hit or miss depending if you enjoy them or not. I personally don't. I prefer older storylines, which they haven't touched in ages. What do you mean by seasonal quests?
>What do you mean by seasonal quests? They moved onto "seasonal storylines" type updates where things tie together along with the narrative, generally with a lot of small quests or mini-quests IE https://runescape.wiki/w/Legacy_of_Zamorak_quest_series https://runescape.wiki/w/Fort_Forinthry_quest_series GWD3, Arch + Battle for Obelisk, etc.
But that's the same as it was in the old days. All the older quests are also connected? I mean just look at the Mahjarrat story up to Desert Treasure.
The older quests weren't released b2b2b2b2b broken up as smaller miniquests if needed to fill months with 0 updates. They were just released. It's not like they held Monkey Madness until it was "gnome season", they just dropped Monkey Madness. It's just part of RS3's way to add lore in various methods. They tried PvM drops but loreplayers suck at PvM and complained, they tried MTX events and people complained, so they went with different avenues.
I think you also have to realize that a lot of the older quests were literally just dropped in by new interns. They need to have parallel teams working on quests then. But currently I don't even think there are that many storylines with loose ends in general, so it makes sense that they want to make new continuous storylines.
To be fair, they mostly finished the older storylines, Gnome and Desert are basically the only ones left. Meaning that they need to pull a Zeah to make new"small storylines"
How sad Very tragic Please still keep paying for the MTX though, would appreciate
FR. If rs3 goes down then osrs will never be the same
OSRS has been pulling in more than RS3 with regularity for quite some time. 2022 Difficult to calculate as no real mention of % is made. Revenue went up to 137m and Subscription revenue went up 15%, MTX revenue went down 6%. Logically this should point to OSRS being on the rise again. 2021 OSRS £64m vs 61.2m for RS3 2020 OSRS £69m vs £51m for RS3 2019 OSRS £65m vs £43m for RS3 2018 OSRS £42m vs £47m for RS3 2017 OSRS £32m vs £52m for RS3 Anyone can search "Company House Jagex" and confirm the data above.
MTX must make a crap ton of money if it's even this close. Especially comparing subscription counts, not to mention people buying bonds on OSRS.
Oh yeah none of these numbers surprise me whatsoever. Huge reason I never take any pleasure in RS3 finally dying is that it's effectively propping this game up as the long term investment despite far lower per user profits, and has been for years. Once it's gone if Jagex shareholders still have a gap to fill, and IF they really need to make up the revenue, we have to hope they just go for membership prices and nothing else.
So confused by this comment. OSRS has been consistently ahead of RS3 for years, with less staff dedicated to it.
Yes, but mtx makes up a huge portion of jagexs income. So if rs3 went down, and the majority of mtx with it (not all, cuz osrs bonds are also mtx). This would probably mean stuff would have to change dramatically. Cuz there are certain things that kagex spends money on that aren't game specific. Like say the jagex headquarters or servers. Jage would likely have to down size dramatically if rs3 went down.
It quite literally, from their own reports, doesn't. RS3 has dramatically more overall employees than OSRS, even including the shared departments. They could lose the entirety of MTX income and still be heavily in the green.
If they added mtx to osrs the losses in membership would probably cut out any profit, game would be dead soon after
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Maybe but osrs has a history of people not tolerating big changes in their game, I think it would risk their profits a bit too much. Plus if the game dies so does jagex and their investment goes to the ground, losing them money.
Not really, they split the revenue and it's listed. 102m Subscriptions vs 34.5m MTX as of last year, if MTX is considered bonds as well, it's even more in favour of "subs".
Wow released one store mount and it made more money than starcraft 2 in its entirety.
Damn they have taken the active player counter away from homepage! Cant even check the dwindling number for time to time anymore.
?? the counter is still up i just checked.. on both osrs and rs3 sites.
Sadly RS3 is beyond recovery. There are too many problems that have been caused by aggressive MTX/lootboxes etc on the one hand, and an inconsistent and constantly changing vision on the other.
It's absolutely not beyond recovery. If the lootboxes and portables were removed, it would instantly help the health of the game. Unfortunately, the corporate overlords want to push the monetization harder, not less.
I think mtx is at the point where removing it would do more harm than good, for a variety of reasons that aren't very simple. This isn't to say they shouldn't do something about it, but just to say that the game won't be fixed just because of it. It's not like RS3 would just announce "we removed treasure hunter" and the game would fly up to 100k players, it might gain a couple hundred at best. But now you have the problem where the company owning jagex sees that they just dropped the source of 40% of all their revenue, and they're going to be pissed. They either force them to adopt new aggressive monetization methods to make up for it, put it back, or fire developers to make up for the cost. Option 1 and 2 means people won't come back because they knew it was too good to be true. Option 3 means the people who were tentative to play again after seeing mtx removed just won't see any other reason to return when all new updates completely stagnate. Other than that you have the problem where some strange portion of the community is deeply ingrained in the mtx. They nerfed the power of some MTX items like proteans and slayer wildcards recently and people were MAD, like actually mad that they lost out on free xp they might have gotten with their future spins. Same with the nerfs to the oddment shop keys, where players got less power out of what they were spending and some portion of the community got really upset they would get less out of their irl money spent.
If I spent money on hundreds of keys and then out of nowhere Jagex nerfed them I would be mad too, even If I think it's for the health of the gam
They didn't change existing items, only that any items obtained in the future are now a nerfed version. ie the new unstable items cannot be used for double xp weekend.
I would play rs3 and osrs if we could play Both at the same time. Of course most of my time would go to osrs. But the fact you have to pick what one to be on is a dumb ass decision design.
“But it’s 99% bots!!!!!” -RS3 copium because they regret not jumping ship 10 years ago.
Nobody playing rs3 regrets not jumping ship lmao. A lot of rs3 players play osrs as well. The ones who don't, don't care about osrs. A lot of rs3 players just want their game to be successful.
Just like how there is a minority of shitters in the OSRS community that shit on RS3, there is a minority of shitters in the RS3 community that shit on OSRS. I don’t think they regret not jumping ship, but sunk cost fallacy and the nostalgia/connection you feel playing the same character you played since you were a child is definitely a massive factor.
There are more Osrs players who constantly shit on Rs3, than there are Rs3 players.
Perfectly well said, I was just in the middle of typing out a poorly worded version of what you wrote
I wish there wasn’t so much bad blood between the different versions tbh. I occasionally pop over to RS3 for a week or two, and have fun when I do. It’s got a lot of issues, obviously, but it has gotten some things right over the years and can still be enjoyable. The MTX’s are truly awful, though.
"Bad blood" mainly exists on reddit and is propagated by a small minority who have A) nothing more important going on in their lives and B) hilarious insecurity.
Out am I?
I just feel numb at the fact that Rs3 is dying because our Corporate overlords want to make revenue. I got like 7k hours on Rs2/3 and 3k hours on OSRS. I'm just scared that if they don't fix Rs3 and bring in more players, OSRS will be targeted to increase revenue to make up for any loses Rs3 inccures in the future. I gravited away from Rs3 after I got 120 necromancy, and focused all my attention on OSRS. I don't think I'll go back in the foreseeable future. I get that some player find it funny that Rs3 is dying, without seeing the danger ahead for OSRS. Never underestimate the power of greed. I dont want OSRS to ever get MTX.
Eh, the player base will leave and most won't return even if they undo what they did. They lose our trust and it's goodbye.
That should be common sense :/ but you can always trust the corporates to fuck things over. Let's just hope common sense prevails. In fact, let's hope they fix RS3 and slowly move away from MTX to focus on better content to draw new players in. I just want OSRS to continue to thrive. Love this damn addiction—I mean game. Love this damn game.
I don’t get why this sub has such a hard-on for bashing RS3. As soon as RS3 dies, the MTX is going straight to OSRS, unpolled. The executives and investors don’t give a fuck about devs or the players.
Year 11 of rs3 not paying rent in the 07headspace
When osrs players haven't actually played rs3 so they just blindly hate and don't actually give the game a chance even though they'd likely have alot of fun if they looked past the tribalism I've played both versions starting in 06, hate all you want, Ive poured hundreds... Thousands? Of hours into RuneScape, the best version of RuneScape is just having a shit ton of fun and letting the haters keep hating
whoever thought EoC was a good idea is nowhere to be found and is probably buried somewhere in Mexico
Even despite EoC, RS3 was pulling in more players than OSRS for quite a while. While most OSRS players hate EoC, there was room for RS3 to be a real competitor alongside OSRS. I actually quite enjoyed the high-skill bosses they managed to come out with, Telos was very well designed. The true divergence in the game is that OSRS has actually implemented quality updates that prioritize user experience while RS3 has more or less been focused about squeezing every dollar out of their remaining players with loot boxes and MTX.
EoC was necessary to create boss encounters that require more challenge then click square marked in color by runelite and flick prayer.
i get your point, but there are plenty of encounters in osrs that have way more to consider than just that. the colo's final boss is a perfect example and that fight is designed beautifully.
The true bottom line is that RS2 ( therefore RSC ) just sucked in general when it came to bosses, as in gameplay wise ( not that kbd, mole or kq had any good loot ) Both RS3 and OSRS understood that shit needs to change and now we live in a time where Scurrius a boss thats meant to be an entry to bossing shits on the boss design that RS2 had in general ( Nomad was cool but that was a quest boss ). I remember Tormented Demons and Glacors having much better design than bosses
i think hes having trouble getting his quiver because hes so used to spamming 1234 in rs3
EoC carries the fuck out of what's left of Rs3 and it's funny to me that some people don't understand that because their conception of EoC is stuck on the version that shipped 12 years ago. I wouldn't expect you to get it because judging from your replies you're either a child or severely mentally challenged but it's interesting that it's such a popular sentiment/boogieman in the osrs community when it's really the one thing rs3 players are broadly consistently happy with.
The fact that people think its just "another ability based system but worse than others" is just further ignorance tbh. Defensive abilities, constant use of consumables and adrenaline in general makes it actually quite unique amongst the other MMOs and it doesnt have holy trinity style either.
Sadly not. Mmg the Eoc at the time had made the choice to push Eoc alone i think it was like 80% of the devs disliked it. He owns his own gaming studio now.
Rs3 need an doc update Devolution of combat
Regression
I almost wish we at RS3 rebranded in a way from the RuneScape name. I think when most of us think RuneScape it comes with a very nostalgic thought of a point and click game, and not the ability based game we have now. I think the names brings unnecessary competition for the games and does a disservice to an otherwise really good game
The world of Gachalenor
Rune shadow legends.
I've been saying this for a long time. OSRS is RuneScape. RS3 is the cheap knockoff with gacha mechanics, lootboxes, and battle passes, complete with a cartoony Fortnite-wannabe art direction.
I think that’s harsh on RS3 but I know I’m biased. I find RS3 to be a game that, outside of the MTX, is driven by lore, bossing, and stretching the limits of mechanics. It’s a game that is allowed to be driven by the developers decisions and not just the players, leading to really good and really bad choices.
Honestly, some RS3 content and lore is amazing and I wish OSRS would steal more stuff. But the art design is terrible. So cluttered and flashy. You go to OSRS GE and it’s some looks you recognize, some new stuff, some pets. You go to RS3 GE and it’s like a rave of random flashing MTX shit. I’d like RS3 a lot more if it were more recognizable. The style that I knew and loved has been completely trampled on. Other than the absurd mtx of course, this is my biggest gripe with RS3.
I don't buy keys, fiend over "battle passes" or give a fuck about the graphics. RS3 is still Runescape.
Both game good 👍
Real footage of Andrew Gower before leaving the company
Andrew was counting the Millions upon millions of Pounds before leaving, he was likely thinking about how his grandkids will have a better childhood than him, doubt he looked like that
It's honestly sad that after playing rs3 for a little bit on the OG, it feels like it regressed into a mobile game to where you can play the game and make in-game currency, but the economy is so shit. Ranarr seeds are 2k. Snapdragons are 2k. What used to be a fundamental staple for what is required everywhere is now cents to the dollar. The content is there. Something osrs needs more of. Content you can do with friends that isn't in the wilderness or raids that is fun.
😂😂😂
What did they do to make him that mad
They even changed the sign to "Old School Corp" that's cold.
Pay the swap tax and move everything to OSRS...... rs3 is a corpse. started my osrs acct in dec 2023 and its already just under 2050 total level. Join us
I'm not sure how many RS3 devs are longer standing ones. I was under the impression a lot of them were newer-ish (or at least post split). It's bad management and likely a bad mod or 2 that's really got RS3 going down. Too many microtransactions, probably one of the worst new player experiences (the UI is horrendous and really difficult for a new player to setup, source a friend who wanted to try it), and the lack of overall interesting updates to make people want to come back. Not everyone is always wanting to repeat the same content without any hope of something new to grind towards. I genuinely worry that RS3 might not have a future which would make us the next target for big microtransaction hell somehow.
Lol, I love it when RS players fight amongst themselves. Especially when OSRS players think that their game is "the better one" when in reality it's the worse one by a long shot. Which makes it infinitely more hilarious knowing that both games are absolute dogshit because they rank even lower than actual cash grab mobile games that are literally soulless shells meant to capture as many addicts as possible, and neither game is even able to compete with that.
> Which makes it infinitely more hilarious knowing that both games are absolute dogshit because they rank even lower than actual cash grab mobile games that are literally soulless shells meant to capture as many addicts as possible, and neither game is even able to compete with that I don't care about rankings or player counts, I like playing games not looking at charts representing them. They're both good games
You say that but most people judge a game by popularity and management only cares about what makes good money. I know hundreds of games that are ultra popular and they couldnt miss me with its mediocrity any better if they tried but its the world we live in.
Ok, but so what? What can I do with the information that other games are more popular and some people like games solely because they're more popular? I still like playing the games I like. This is not affected by gatcha games with hundreds of times the playerbase existing. Am I supposed to be scared they're going to start implementing gatcha mechanics or something? Because with how the playerbase and dev team are here I'm not concerned about that in the slightest.
You have every right to like dogshit if you want to do so, but facts are facts. OSRS is a terrible game. Over 90% of your gameplay is just you clicking once and walking away 10-15 minutes at a time. You're legitimately not even playing the game. Even when it comes down to PVE there's a limit to how much engagement you get out of it due to how the game itself is structured, and how the devs attempt to implement difficulty into the game. Instead of pushing the game's difficulty through unique and standard interactions and methods the devs push it via APM. Which in turn removes all skill from the game, and turns it into a repeat X pattern to accomplish Y task simulator on all levels of play in and out of PVE. RS3 on the other hand is arguably more of a real game than OSRS will ever be. You at least get to play the actual game instead of it playing you when you turn Revolution off. Every input you make actually matters and influences the game. Difficulty/skill isn't expressed via repeat X pattern to finish Y task, but is expressed via you actually playing the game and using actual in-game mechanics to do so. The only problem with RS3 is that it has a lot, and I mean a lot, of rollover from RS2 which holds it back insanely hard. That, and the devs for RS3 are no better than the devs for OSRS. The devs are as equally incompetent as one another because they keep trying to emulate 07 RS when they should be abandoning that mindset, and should be adopting modern ones and looking towards ideas that actually work like those of what Albion Online have implemented.
The gods of OSRS are the few whales that spend our entire paychecks worth in a day in microtransactions in RS3.
Oldschool RS3 with no MTX (except Bonds) when? (not replacing OSRS ofc)
jokes on you: we get weekly updates that don't need to be polled! well, they're all MTX stuff, but that still counts
Oldschool the only school get that ish outta here
And poor rs3 is making probably 80% of thier revenue
Osrs has been more profitable than rs3 since 2019. I have no idea where people get the idea that rs3 is funding osrs or protecting it from mtx
A lot of people don't understand business
I'm convinced some people just think "game with MTX = more profitable than game without, no exceptions". These games are living proof that that logic is garbage, and they've been proof of it for years.
I'm not saying your wrong, but dont underestimate microtransaction whales. Something around 20% of players typically account for 80% of profits. Thats why microtransactions cater to those 20% of players willing to dish out big bucks for cosmetics / boosts or what have you. Edit: I'm referring to only mtx in the wider gaming sphere. Obviously a business model around subscriptions changes this math substantially.
Jagex tax reports are public, for 2022, microtransactions accounted for 32.4m of their revenue, subscriptions accounted for 102m. Even if we assume "microtransactions" is *only* RS3 and doesn't include bonds, and the player split in the top comment by sir_snuffles is representative of total player split (20k rs3 vs 130k osrs, or about 13.5% rs3 players)... Then RS3, between microtransactions and subs brings in about 46m in revenue compared to OSRS with 88.3m from subs alone.
It's not quite that much of a discrepancy, it's relatively close to 50% to each. In previous years they posted the EXACT amount of money both games generated and you can then figure out from the % difference year on year that they continue to post. 2022 Difficult to calculate as no real mention of % is made. Revenue went up to 137m and Subscription revenue went up 15%, MTX revenue went down 6%. Logically this should point to OSRS being on the rise again. 2021 OSRS £64m vs £61m for RS3 2020 OSRS £69m vs £51m for RS3 2019 OSRS £65m vs £43m for RS3 2018 OSRS £42m vs £47m for RS3 2017 OSRS £32m vs £52m for RS3
>It's not quite that much of a discrepancy, it's relatively close to 50% to each. 50% of what?
Revenue, I imagine OSRS is much more profitable given how many less staff are supporting it. I edited my post, it's fairly detailed in the revenue for both games until 2022, sadly they're too ambiguous with the reporting to narrow it down past generic guesswork.
Considering 1 subscription covers both games, it's likely that the sub revenue was being evenly divided, and osrs just surpassed rs3 bonds+mtx with osrs bonds in the numbers you provided. In reality, the sub revenue is very likely going to be for one game or the other, especially given that you can't play both osrs and rs3 at the same time (or I would've tested out rs3 myself a long time ago).
There's no guesswork required for 2017 > 2020, those four years Jagex literally tell you how much each game earned. I'm sure they have a method to figuring out which game the sub is allocated to (playtime?) or some other metric. They started being ambiguous about which game was earning what in the last report, likely because RS3 has down trended massively and OSRS is still looking strong year on year.
>There's no guesswork required for 2017 > 2020, those four years Jagex literally tell you how much each game earned. Splitting the sub numbers evenly would've made rs3 look better as osrs had more players than rs3 for that entire span. If they're willing to just consolidate everything to cover up rs3's downtrend, I don't see why they wouldn't have split it like that.
Yeah I was oy referring to profits from mtx specifically across the whole gameing industry, not accounting for games sales and subscriptions or other forms of revenue. I've edited my original comment to mae this clearer.
There is no need to throw made up numbers around when those statistics are public. In 2022 74% of all the revenues came from subscriptions. That means jagex gets 26% of their revenues from mtx including old school bonds. We dont know how large portion of that is bonds but probably little bit over 20% of income jagex gets is from rs3 mtx
I wasn't referring to runescape alone. I was referring to the gameing landscape and mtx in general. Obviously a huge portion of total invome for runescape specifically is subscriptions, thats why I said "Im not saying your wrong" at the start.
Yes, in games with mtx, most profits come from small number of whales. But osrs vs rs3 is great example that you dont need to make your game p2w of full of buayable cosmetics to make it profitable. Good, fair, non pay to win game can be more profitable than shitty pay to win game
Yeah i really do agree. Osrs is a great example of a profitable game that is fair to its players. It's worth noting however, that its not a 'perfect' comparison, (though it's likely as close to one we'll ever see in the real world). Rs3 isn't the exact same game as osrs but with microtransactions. There are more reasons than just the shitty mtx as to why rs3 is a failing game. Additionally, a fith of your profits coming from 1/7th (arguably less) of your playerbase in a failing version of your game could be construed into a good argument for why predatory microtransactions do in fact work. Just my two cents
Absolute bullshit. Jagex accounts are literally one search away. It's close enough to 50:50 for years.
You know Jagex publishes their annual reports that proves that this isn’t the case, right?
I don't think RS3 players are smart enough to understand your comment.
I think a lot of it also has to do with the osrs mobile app bringing in a lot of fresh players. The rs3 mobile app crashes every few minutes and is unusable.
What content are you doing when it crashes? I play regularly and haven't had it crash yet. Osrs mobile app is better, I just wish I could make the inventory bigger.
No specific content, right from the beginning going through on a new account it just crashes Non-Stop. Looking at the comments on the app in the app store it would appear that that's pretty common place for a lot of people. So unless they fixed it within the last few months I'd say you're probably an outlier. ETA: to note this is also on an Android phone not an iPhone or a tablet so I don't know if the app would work better on one of those
What’s the income look like for jagex? Rs3 has to make more money with MTX right? Or else why waste money on a dev team?
>Rs3 has to make more money with MTX right? No, it makes much more per player but less overall. >Or else why waste money on a dev team? It still makes money. That's like asking why the Coca Cola company doesn't pull Fanta off the shelves.
You either die a hero, or live long enough to become a villian. Or you die and get resurrected and eventually become a hero again. And then the cycle starts over
I moved from rs3 to osrs 1-2 years ago and have never regretted it
Rs3 ironman seems to be the way to play rs3 since theres no mtx. I recently tried it but was put off by the UI and looting system. The EOC combat is also incredibly boring. Idk about end game but somehow the early game combat in OSRS where you hit 50 zeros on a goblin is more exciting than EOC.
To be fair though, 80% of osrs is bots.