You couldn’t be farther from the truth. You can’t really differentiate a fully fascist state from a fully communist state. Their ideals may be different, but in practical terms, there’s almost no difference.
All fascism is authoritarian but not all authoritarianism is fascism. Even if the end state looks similar. Jason Stanley wrote a book about fascism and describes it more as a style of politics than a way of governance, and again I believe that way of politics is specifically focused on the deconstruction of the liberal democratic state.
China is definitely fascist and authoritarian and they have been for a while. Their citizens have no access to the outside world and are brainwashed with pro state propaganda from birth while being ruled by an unelected dictator. Certainly not communist by definition.
I agree with everything you said about China but that they are fascist. Being super authoritarian doesn’t always equal being fascist but being fascist invariably means being authoritarian
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We have been doing just that, but it does not happen overnight. Currently our biggest trade partner is Mexico. [link](https://www.statista.com/statistics/186601/ranking-of-the-largest-trading-partners-for-us-imports/#:~:text=U.S.%20imports%20%2D%20top%20trading%20partners%202023&text=In%20that%20year%2C%20U.S.%20imports,%2DMexico%2DCanada%20trade%20agreement.)
But then people won’t get cheap shit made by people who are paid fraction of what American would ask.
P.S. I checked and median Chinese pay is not that lower than usa but i guess it was true in the past and now simply too many things are already produced there and it will take time to achieve similar amounts of production elsewhere.
Chinese labor costs have increased dramatically in the past few decades, and the workforce has aged so quickly that the average Chinese is now older than the average American for the first time in centuries.
Yeah, they used to be desperately poor, but now urban Chinese make nearly as much as urban Americans. Rural Chinese are a different story, but China isn't what it used to be, certainly.
We dont need to reindustrialize, but we do need to invest back into manufacturing, it wouldnt look like the 1800s sweatshops hopefully, it could look like advanced automation and robotics being produced and sold in America. We need decent quality blue collar jobs here though, our population is too large and diverse to just be "everyone gets a degree" or "go to the trades you blue collar serf".
many companies have been moving to Vietnam as an alternative to China.
And Mexico is our biggest trade partner we are decoupling but not very fast.
But American companies leaving is actually contributing greatly to Chinas current financial struggles.
Oh definitely and I like the idea of expanding business relations with other countries.
India has also been moving away from Chinese goods and the EU has been making moves as well
China became the worlds manufacturer but has not leveraged this power for cooperative prosperity but as a weapon but have failed to realize without customers thy are up shits creek without a paddle.
Making enemies of your customers and neighbors is a good way to end up with no real friends they have burnt every bridge for short term gain.
I curious what they will look like 20 years from now?
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The Great Depression was primarily the result of dramatic American overproduction and was exacerbated by tight-money policies and the gold standard. A collapse of US-China trade would cause initial supply shocks, followed by an eventual reorganization of supply chains.
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Confucius said-- What goes up, must come down.
Unfortunately, he was a Chinese philosopher and the Japanese didn't listen to him nor did they listen to the other great philosopher Sun Tzu- he who fucks around, will inevitably find out.
Agreed
now I don't get rock hard about America being The big boy but considering the other options I to Believe America is the safest option I mean we are all a little crazy over here and Earth is by no means a utopia but Living in a world where China or Russia was top dog sounds horrifying.
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1) china is talking out both sides of their mouth. They preach a multipolar world but want a unipolar china world. You can look at their actions already with their neighbors for a glimpse.
2) does anyone want an ethnostate that teaches their children racial superiority to be anywhere near global leadership
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You know what as a Filipina, I’m filled with angry everytime I hear about China, almost want me to just decide to become a terrorist in China and yeah, I hope the communist Chinese party collapse in epic Nazi germany style of collapse
Not even a liberal, democratic China can reasonably coexist with the US as equals. A cold war is bound happen regardless of who rules in China. A democratic China would stand an even better chance at beating out the US than now. A liberal, democratic China would be just as aggressive against the Philippines and Vietnam, just look at Taiwan's clashes with the Philippine Coast Guard.
Even currently democratic Asian countries have cultures, values and especially interests that are the polar opposite of what the countries of the Americas (both Anglo and Latino) stand for. Not even the Philippines, with US and Latino cultural influence is compatible, so there is bound to be more divergence and rivalry between the US and Asia in the future, like what has happened with the EU.
As a Taiwanese woman, very well said.
The same goes with a liberal, democratic Russia and why most Finns, Georgians, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles, Ukrainians, and Romanians are not thrilled with even having a genuinely liberal, democratic Russia.
Aleksey Navalny referred to Caucasians (Georgians, Armenians, Azeri, Chechens, etc.) as "cockroaches" and has joined several White Russian Supremacist marches.
Moving on to the West Philippine Sea, we really wanted to renounce all of the ridiculous territorial claims of the ROC, yet Beijing throws a military hissy fit over us Taiwanese (under the ROC, against our will) renouncing those ridiculous territorial claims.
A liberal, democratic Russia would still be going around and trying to subjugate neighbors. It's just the US would probably do less against such a Russia as that, like how the US used to ignore European colonial empires' atrocities pre-WW2.
Also, people just ignore Taiwan government claiming more territory than the PRC. Mongolia's a mere province to them, and I am sure a liberal, democratic China would have more leverage to take it over.
Exactly. I don’t know why people think Democracy = Peaceful happy coexistence.
The British have been an effective democracy since the late 1800s. Created the biggest empire in the world and dominated/subjugated millions.
The French Republics have been massive colonial empires.
The United States did absolutely nothing wrong, ~~please ignore what we did to the Native Americans, Philippines, Hawaii and African slaves~~ nothing at all.
Without major cultural changes, a democratic Russia or China would just be a much more economically powerful version of themselves.
So you would prefer a democratic ethnostate like China to be dominant? The way I see it, it’s either that, or the PRC dissolves and leaves America as even more dominant than before.
As much as I prefer a US-led alliance be dominant in the face of an *authoritarian* China, a democratic China could win over Korea, Philippines, Japan and etc. to its side and leave the US without Asian allies (India would be another rival entirely).
Also, a violent dissolution of the PRC would trigger nuclear civil and global war, the only way it can end well is for *reform*, rather than revolution.
A violent dissolution of the PRC most likely wouldn’t lead to a world or nuclear war. The PRC breaking apart is the most likely outcome for China, whether it’s peaceful or not. Reform is possible but I doubt it would be a truly capitalist and liberal democracy that wouldn’t be immediately challenged by NATO.
I don’t imagine all of China’s provinces staying together, even in the last Civil War there were multiple different provincial leaders with a lot of influence and soldiers. The dream of an Asian ethnostate dominating the world has been a dead one for a very long time. The fall of the PRC will not be through silent reform.
Civil wars tend to last for long, and I wouldn’t count out Indian, Russian, and the US intelligence to not meddle in the conflict. India isn’t an ethnostate, I never said that. I actually think it’s quite a respectable county. Also unlike China or India, the USA has the road being paved to accept Asian Americans and the other cultures of the world being accepted as fully American. The USA is not losing its spot anytime soon. I think America’s head start and position in space progress will also come to make it much more powerful in the future. Asteroid mining is much less distant a reality than a fully multipolar world.
I say I am lucky as a Filipino American to have been accepted by the whites and Latinos around me in the western states, but I don't know if it will hold true in the rest of the US, especially in poorer states.
Acceptance of Asian Americans and immigrants will be key to winning the second cold war, even by a slight margin, given that most of today's American innovation is from Asian immigrants. Yet it will be much harder for the two mainstream races to accept Asians as fellow citizens today as compared to Slavs in the first one.
OP and u/HanchengKeijo_Treaty are the same troll by the way. One's pretending to be Korean and the other is pretending to be Taiwanese.
They had other accounts like u/Roirei-Haribon and u/PanguloSupremo-256 which pretended to be Philipino.
You might also remember u/329-HanDaenim, u/Aleja_Junghwa-Ilbon, u/YeoHwangPyeHa or u/PresRepKor_DJShin.
"Dude, there's enough third world countries for us both to be colonialist superpowers, why are you so mad?"
Literally the most European shit imaginable smh.
I'd be more than happy to coexist in a world with a strong china if China would stop some of the, you know, authoritarian measures like genocide, censorship, etc.
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Land stolen by mexico: over 100 years ago.
Slavery: over 100 years ago.
Jim crow laws: not doing that anymore.
Natives genocide: we’re not putting them in camps anymore.
Unlike China, we actually improved.
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Listened to a podcast about this the homie did (freedom fries if you are interested, though he hasn't posted in a hot minute) with an expert in foreign relations.
Basically, the theory is that countries relationships with each other regarding hostility and allies is directly impacted by the compatibility of their utopian goals.
Example:
USA and the USSR both had the same utopian goal; to spread their own ideology. They were incompatible because they had different ideologies.
The Chinese utopia is one in which China and the Chinese government is as powerful and large as possible. This conflicts with the US utopia of spreading the ideology of capitalism and free democracy because the Chinese state doesn't hold true to these ideologies. Thus, China and the US will have friction.
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Didn’t China steal Taiwan’s fishery resources in the South China Sea?
Oh, and Taiwan and China have the same claim in the South China Sea.
To be precise: the current Chinese government’s South China Sea claims came from the former Chinese government in 1947 (which retreated to Taiwan in 1949)
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Yeah, I don’t think we can coexist with a cyber-fascist country
"Just let us do genocide and threaten US allies! Why won't the USA leave us alone!"
I like your profile picture
I don't think they are fascist. I hate them and they are shitty authoritarians but I wouldn't class it fascism.
Nah dude, they’re well on their way devolving into fascism.
I think fascism has to devolve from some form of liberalism which China never attained to begin with.
You couldn’t be farther from the truth. You can’t really differentiate a fully fascist state from a fully communist state. Their ideals may be different, but in practical terms, there’s almost no difference.
While liberalism is the opposite of authoritarianism.
All fascism is authoritarian but not all authoritarianism is fascism. Even if the end state looks similar. Jason Stanley wrote a book about fascism and describes it more as a style of politics than a way of governance, and again I believe that way of politics is specifically focused on the deconstruction of the liberal democratic state.
China is definitely fascist and authoritarian and they have been for a while. Their citizens have no access to the outside world and are brainwashed with pro state propaganda from birth while being ruled by an unelected dictator. Certainly not communist by definition.
I agree with everything you said about China but that they are fascist. Being super authoritarian doesn’t always equal being fascist but being fascist invariably means being authoritarian
America is slowly becoming like that. The credit scores bullshit here is insane.
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Also the concentration camps the Chinese have had running for years now, which we have known about for years as well and done nothing about.
Not much we can do, unfortunately. China and America have economies so intertwined that if we tried to seriously punish them, we'd both go down.
We could, y’know, start disentangling them. Because the CCP is evil.
We have been doing just that, but it does not happen overnight. Currently our biggest trade partner is Mexico. [link](https://www.statista.com/statistics/186601/ranking-of-the-largest-trading-partners-for-us-imports/#:~:text=U.S.%20imports%20%2D%20top%20trading%20partners%202023&text=In%20that%20year%2C%20U.S.%20imports,%2DMexico%2DCanada%20trade%20agreement.)
MEXICO MENTIONED 🌯🫔🌮🫔🌯🇲🇽🌯🫔🌮🇲🇽🌯🇲🇽🌯🇲🇽🌯🫔🌮🫔🌯🌯🫔🌮
Truly the second best America
we’re working on it, for the first time we traded more with Mexico than China
But then people won’t get cheap shit made by people who are paid fraction of what American would ask. P.S. I checked and median Chinese pay is not that lower than usa but i guess it was true in the past and now simply too many things are already produced there and it will take time to achieve similar amounts of production elsewhere.
Chinese labor costs have increased dramatically in the past few decades, and the workforce has aged so quickly that the average Chinese is now older than the average American for the first time in centuries.
Yeah, they used to be desperately poor, but now urban Chinese make nearly as much as urban Americans. Rural Chinese are a different story, but China isn't what it used to be, certainly.
Mutual destruction 2: electric boogaloo
The US would go the route of the Great Depression. China would collapse.
Not necessarily if we slowly decouple and shift factories around.
Thats already happening. Cost of labor went up in China.
Build factory in Philippines saar 🙏
We can build as many factories as the Filipinos need if we get a red horse bottling op in the USA. I need it.
I agree! I dont think it would be another great depression for the US
Give it a decade or two, but it still would be a recession even after.
Yeah it wouldn't have zero effects. Just not catastrophic ones. And could be an impetus to return manufacturing to the US finally
We dont need to reindustrialize, but we do need to invest back into manufacturing, it wouldnt look like the 1800s sweatshops hopefully, it could look like advanced automation and robotics being produced and sold in America. We need decent quality blue collar jobs here though, our population is too large and diverse to just be "everyone gets a degree" or "go to the trades you blue collar serf".
many companies have been moving to Vietnam as an alternative to China. And Mexico is our biggest trade partner we are decoupling but not very fast. But American companies leaving is actually contributing greatly to Chinas current financial struggles.
Diversifying away from the fascist ethnostate is good for America
Oh definitely and I like the idea of expanding business relations with other countries. India has also been moving away from Chinese goods and the EU has been making moves as well China became the worlds manufacturer but has not leveraged this power for cooperative prosperity but as a weapon but have failed to realize without customers thy are up shits creek without a paddle. Making enemies of your customers and neighbors is a good way to end up with no real friends they have burnt every bridge for short term gain. I curious what they will look like 20 years from now?
Hopefully not godawful in terms of human life cost, and hopefully a regime change in china for the better. I dont hate chinese people, i hate the CCP
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The Great Depression was primarily the result of dramatic American overproduction and was exacerbated by tight-money policies and the gold standard. A collapse of US-China trade would cause initial supply shocks, followed by an eventual reorganization of supply chains.
A collapse of China would mean nuclear war. Not sure if that's desirable for anyone.
RAHHHHHH DROP THEM
I wish we lived in a country with multiple examples of helping foreign politics, whether it be for the better or worse...
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Really? I’d love to hear about these things you’re making up.
*once he flairs up
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Oh, so you’re an insane leftist who believes laws shouldn’t exist, opinion discarded.
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Tsk tsk tsk… Filthy unflaired gonna filthy unflaired
China seriously posted shit like this knowing that all their neighbors are frosty at best
Bruh Which one of their neighbors is actually their friend.
DPRK out of necessity Pakistan because they hate India
Japan tried that once. How did we stop that again?
We dropped two suns on them! ☀ ☀ 🫶
Well it’s their fault for calling themselves the land of the rising sun
Confucius said-- What goes up, must come down. Unfortunately, he was a Chinese philosopher and the Japanese didn't listen to him nor did they listen to the other great philosopher Sun Tzu- he who fucks around, will inevitably find out.
That’s why you must fight when it’s going to result in victory
I'd never want a ethnostate being the superpower, be it China or Germany. The world is better off with USA being the superpower
The melting pot should always be the sole superpower. I'll fight, kill, and die for that belief.
Agreed now I don't get rock hard about America being The big boy but considering the other options I to Believe America is the safest option I mean we are all a little crazy over here and Earth is by no means a utopia but Living in a world where China or Russia was top dog sounds horrifying.
Pax Americana for life🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅
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1) china is talking out both sides of their mouth. They preach a multipolar world but want a unipolar china world. You can look at their actions already with their neighbors for a glimpse. 2) does anyone want an ethnostate that teaches their children racial superiority to be anywhere near global leadership
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You know what as a Filipina, I’m filled with angry everytime I hear about China, almost want me to just decide to become a terrorist in China and yeah, I hope the communist Chinese party collapse in epic Nazi germany style of collapse
Not even a liberal, democratic China can reasonably coexist with the US as equals. A cold war is bound happen regardless of who rules in China. A democratic China would stand an even better chance at beating out the US than now. A liberal, democratic China would be just as aggressive against the Philippines and Vietnam, just look at Taiwan's clashes with the Philippine Coast Guard. Even currently democratic Asian countries have cultures, values and especially interests that are the polar opposite of what the countries of the Americas (both Anglo and Latino) stand for. Not even the Philippines, with US and Latino cultural influence is compatible, so there is bound to be more divergence and rivalry between the US and Asia in the future, like what has happened with the EU.
As a Taiwanese woman, very well said. The same goes with a liberal, democratic Russia and why most Finns, Georgians, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles, Ukrainians, and Romanians are not thrilled with even having a genuinely liberal, democratic Russia. Aleksey Navalny referred to Caucasians (Georgians, Armenians, Azeri, Chechens, etc.) as "cockroaches" and has joined several White Russian Supremacist marches. Moving on to the West Philippine Sea, we really wanted to renounce all of the ridiculous territorial claims of the ROC, yet Beijing throws a military hissy fit over us Taiwanese (under the ROC, against our will) renouncing those ridiculous territorial claims.
A liberal, democratic Russia would still be going around and trying to subjugate neighbors. It's just the US would probably do less against such a Russia as that, like how the US used to ignore European colonial empires' atrocities pre-WW2. Also, people just ignore Taiwan government claiming more territory than the PRC. Mongolia's a mere province to them, and I am sure a liberal, democratic China would have more leverage to take it over.
Exactly. I don’t know why people think Democracy = Peaceful happy coexistence. The British have been an effective democracy since the late 1800s. Created the biggest empire in the world and dominated/subjugated millions. The French Republics have been massive colonial empires. The United States did absolutely nothing wrong, ~~please ignore what we did to the Native Americans, Philippines, Hawaii and African slaves~~ nothing at all. Without major cultural changes, a democratic Russia or China would just be a much more economically powerful version of themselves.
Had* Navalny was assassinated last week.
So what you’re saying is, US domination is truly the only way?
Not exactly, given that the US would lose to a democratic China.
So you would prefer a democratic ethnostate like China to be dominant? The way I see it, it’s either that, or the PRC dissolves and leaves America as even more dominant than before.
As much as I prefer a US-led alliance be dominant in the face of an *authoritarian* China, a democratic China could win over Korea, Philippines, Japan and etc. to its side and leave the US without Asian allies (India would be another rival entirely). Also, a violent dissolution of the PRC would trigger nuclear civil and global war, the only way it can end well is for *reform*, rather than revolution.
A violent dissolution of the PRC most likely wouldn’t lead to a world or nuclear war. The PRC breaking apart is the most likely outcome for China, whether it’s peaceful or not. Reform is possible but I doubt it would be a truly capitalist and liberal democracy that wouldn’t be immediately challenged by NATO.
92% of China is Han Chinese, and even the minority ethnic regions stand very little chance at independence even in a democratic China.
I don’t think ethnicity matters as much as you’d think when it comes to ideologically opposed groups wanting independence.
Ex-Soviet countries didn't stay together after independence and Russia didn't relapse to authoritarianism for another decade.
I don’t imagine all of China’s provinces staying together, even in the last Civil War there were multiple different provincial leaders with a lot of influence and soldiers. The dream of an Asian ethnostate dominating the world has been a dead one for a very long time. The fall of the PRC will not be through silent reform.
Civil wars tend to last for long, and I wouldn’t count out Indian, Russian, and the US intelligence to not meddle in the conflict. India isn’t an ethnostate, I never said that. I actually think it’s quite a respectable county. Also unlike China or India, the USA has the road being paved to accept Asian Americans and the other cultures of the world being accepted as fully American. The USA is not losing its spot anytime soon. I think America’s head start and position in space progress will also come to make it much more powerful in the future. Asteroid mining is much less distant a reality than a fully multipolar world.
I say I am lucky as a Filipino American to have been accepted by the whites and Latinos around me in the western states, but I don't know if it will hold true in the rest of the US, especially in poorer states. Acceptance of Asian Americans and immigrants will be key to winning the second cold war, even by a slight margin, given that most of today's American innovation is from Asian immigrants. Yet it will be much harder for the two mainstream races to accept Asians as fellow citizens today as compared to Slavs in the first one.
The H in China stands for "Hypocrisy".
*Prosper Together*, gives me flashbacks of when China used to say this to us and look how that's turning out
Common American W
OP and u/HanchengKeijo_Treaty are the same troll by the way. One's pretending to be Korean and the other is pretending to be Taiwanese. They had other accounts like u/Roirei-Haribon and u/PanguloSupremo-256 which pretended to be Philipino. You might also remember u/329-HanDaenim, u/Aleja_Junghwa-Ilbon, u/YeoHwangPyeHa or u/PresRepKor_DJShin.
So the US is honest while China is lying for PR reasons.
“prosper together”, my brother, your country has a billion people and tons of natural resources, you’d be prospering if you’d let them live free!
"Dude, there's enough third world countries for us both to be colonialist superpowers, why are you so mad?" Literally the most European shit imaginable smh.
It certainly is China. How about that nine-dash line?
Whoever made the original post has not received the idea of LYING!
CHINA! lie! Would they lie.... NEVER!
i got banned from r/MarxistCulture for pointing out the fact that the CCP is committing an active genocide lmao
You, sir, are based
I think its easier to replace “china” in the second one with “communists”
I'd be more than happy to coexist in a world with a strong china if China would stop some of the, you know, authoritarian measures like genocide, censorship, etc.
Reminder china is a genocidal dictatorship.
America 🇺🇲* Land stolen to Mexico* Slavery* Natives Genocide* Jim Crow Laws* Etc
Mao Zedong needs to fix his bots bro like what are you even saying?
Mao would but he’s dead 😵 (Rip Chief Commie Bozo)
Just the truth 😌
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Land stolen by mexico: over 100 years ago. Slavery: over 100 years ago. Jim crow laws: not doing that anymore. Natives genocide: we’re not putting them in camps anymore. Unlike China, we actually improved.
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I'm sure China has not parallels to any of those whatsoever/s
*looks at china* *actual ww2 nazi concentration camps for their natives of the land they stole*
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Pretty sure the Chinese one is lying out of his ass, at least the US one is honest.
So when can we officially turn China into a second Florida?
Listened to a podcast about this the homie did (freedom fries if you are interested, though he hasn't posted in a hot minute) with an expert in foreign relations. Basically, the theory is that countries relationships with each other regarding hostility and allies is directly impacted by the compatibility of their utopian goals. Example: USA and the USSR both had the same utopian goal; to spread their own ideology. They were incompatible because they had different ideologies. The Chinese utopia is one in which China and the Chinese government is as powerful and large as possible. This conflicts with the US utopia of spreading the ideology of capitalism and free democracy because the Chinese state doesn't hold true to these ideologies. Thus, China and the US will have friction.
Us ambassador is based, Mr burns for potus.
[Fuck China!](https://i.imgur.com/zFgWV45.jpg)
Their words != their actions. Meanwhile, USA says “🇺🇸😎👊🏻💥” and does exactly “🇺🇸😎👊🏻💥”
I'd rather the U.S. be the world police then let China be the world police.
# China is USSR 2.0 **They're the baddies cuz they're supporting the evil North Korean Regime.**
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Nobody really fcks with US fisheries because we have two prevailing maritime rules. Don’t touch the boats and don’t touch the fish.
Didn’t China steal Taiwan’s fishery resources in the South China Sea? Oh, and Taiwan and China have the same claim in the South China Sea. To be precise: the current Chinese government’s South China Sea claims came from the former Chinese government in 1947 (which retreated to Taiwan in 1949)
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All of the American factories are leaving China as well, so there is literally no American interests lost anymore
I think we can coexist, just with a *few* governmental changes on their end
There’s only one number one, and we’re number one, so it’s us and not her…….xi
1. the dates are wrong, i’ve been seeing these quotes for years 2. holy based
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