I'm not sure where I said they do make guns silent lol?
What I'm saying is I've never read about suppressed lasguns in any of the lore whereas I assume you can suppress an autogun. I would therefore conclude a suppressed autogun would be quieter than an unsuppressed lasgun.
Not exactly what you mean but in Rebel Winter a Vostroyanian sniper uses a solid round rifle instead of a long las since he thinks it helps conceal his position better.
Depends on the mission and not for the reason you describe, but yes certainly possible. In Gaunt's Ghosts during the Gereon mission, Chaos forces pick up on the fact that something is amiss because las weapons are used instead of the normal autoguns used by partisans.
Additionally the Ghosts switched their sidearms to supressable solid rounds. Mkoll advises Gaunt to use one instead of his usual Bolt pistol. And the others use them I stead of the usual laspistol
Indigan Praefects prefer auto weapons over las weapons because it allows them to use different specialist "hunting" rounds.
Las weapons are generally more economical, however, thanks to their ability to recharge rather than relying on supply lines.
Depends on what we call in the business METT-TC. English speakers would call it conditions on the ground but anyway, autoguns are just slug weapons like present day firearms more or less. Infiltration missions generally cease to be stealthy once you have to fire your weapon regardless of what it is because the light and noise signature gives you away.
In Kingmaker, one of the Assassins uses a lasgun with a clear bolt, which basically means that the shots are invisible. Probably not readily available to the majority of soldiers, but more elite specialists could probably get one.
Suppressed firearms are still really loud. You're not taking people out silently with a rifle no matter how large the suppressor (like you see in movies).
Lasguns would be invisible just by moving the frequency into the near IR (though that comes with issues of absorption) and they're not going to make a lot of noise - a loud snap near the emitter maybe.
A lot of the loudness with modern firearms is from the proojectile breaking the sound barrier. Even with a suppressor and subsonic ammo and a shorter barrel, it’snstill pretty loud
There’s a short internal monologue in Assassinorum Kingmaker where a Vindicare Assassin explains his distaste for las weapons. Considering that a Vindicare is meant to be the absolute best stealthy marksman the Imperium has to offer, I’d be inclined to defer to his opinions on what types of weapons are best for special operations. He particularly dislikes how las weapons have low shot-to-shot consistency because of fluctuating power levels. He also explains that unlike with conventional firearms, a las weapon does not enable you to pack your own ammunition tailored to the shot you need take. He admits they are a technological marvel and are immensely useful to the guard, just not to him.
He obviously favors his exitus pistol and rifle primarily, but isn’t afraid to acknowledge that they are not suited for every occasion either. They are bulky, difficult to conceal on one’s person, and can sometimes pack TOO MUCH of a punch. Usually, utterly obliterating a target is exactly what you want. But sometimes you may find yourself in a situation where instantly turning someone’s head into pulp will draw too much attention. For more covert close-quarters kills, he has a compact stub pistol with a silencer. Small, easy to stash somewhere inconspicuous, and fires tiny rounds which have just enough power to pierce a skull and bounce around inside. It’s fast, leaves no exit wounds or obvious external signs of trauma, and produces no more sound than an industrial paper binder. Nice and clean.
Obviously the exact best weapon depends on the task at hand, but if you’re talking about things like stealth and wetwork, it seems like something which fires a conventional hard round is indeed the right play.
The giant bright red laser pointing back to the shooter’s position every time they shoot, on the other hand…
Also, silencers are a thing that exist in real life, never mind the 41st millennium. Though from what I recall some authors have had stealthy versions of las weapons too.
Lasers in reality are typically in the invisible parts of the spectrum though. Most of the industrial lasers I've worked with for ablation (vaporizing the metal) are in infrared or ultraviolet spectrum.
They are visible in 40k. Just like how the Warp exists and chainsaw swords are useful weapons in melee combat. 40k is not and has pretended to be a strictly realistic hard sci-fi setting.
The books also include countless descriptions of lasguns firing highly visible light beams.
If you can find any sources stating that 40k las weapons are invisible to the naked eye, I would be interested to see them.
I'd actually reckon that lasguns might be easier to 'suppress' than autoguns, maybe not the sound of the beams, but it might be possible to rig them to fire only light from parts of the spectrum not normally visible to their opposition. I don't have the background in actual physics + sci fantasy physics to have any idea how feasible that is though.
One reason a unit or a campaign/theater logistical chain might favor autoguns over laguns is if local conditions make it more difficult than normal to recharge lasgun charge packs. Usually that's an extra selling point of the lasgun over solid round equivalents, you can charge a charge pack simply by leaving it out in bright sunlight, or by throwing it in a campfire (briefly) to charge one up quick. If conditions in a theater made either of those methods unfeasible--inclement outside conditions from extreme cold or heat, or toxic environments, just off the top of my head--it could be more economical for the Munitorum to equip imperial troops with solid round weapons, especially if there's a local industrial base capable of producing those weapons and ammunition in or near the actual theater of war to supply them.
Not that it being more *economical* means that's how the Imperium would end up doing things, it's a monstrously complex and horrifically inefficient beast at the best of times. However, a command with enough direct say in how and from where their forces are supplied, say forces directly commandeered by the Inquisition or supplied by the networks of an especially cooperative Rogue Trader dynasty, could enforce these kinds of equipment and requisition changes to make a campaign run more efficiently and effectively.
For these reasons I think the Imperial armed forces most likely to use autoguns regularly would be PDF formations from worlds whose conditions already favor solid slug over las personal firearms.
The main reason to use auto guns is when you’re infiltrating without support. Las gun barrels burn out, the energy packs can get damaged, they’re great with supply lines. One of the gaunts ghosts books goes into this. They’re dropping a team on a chaos controlled world for an extended mission and swapped all their normal gear for dummy simple gear and auto guns.
That's silly. Projectile weapons suffer from parts wear as well. Same with rifle magazines. You bend a feed lip on a STANAG 30 round magazine it's fucked if you don't have the tools to fix it, you might as well chuck it. Also the ammunition for autoguns is limited by physical mass while laspacks can be recharged.
For special forces there is the Retribution Long-las, although I doubt it is widely used or particularly popular with officers.
Otherwise...autoguns have greater access to special ammunition. From armour-piercing ammunition, poison ammunition, incendiary ammunition, manstoppers, ammunition with explosive cores and stun ammunition, there is plenty to choose from. This allows you to deploy much more flexibly.
In RPGs, autoguns can fire considerably more projectiles and therefore provide better suppressive fire than lasguns.
But the lasgun with its long las is basically the better alternative for the Imperial Guard.
Retribution Long-Las is just one variation, RPG's have an upgrade option hiding the flash which can be installed on any lasgun (Rogue Trader - Hostile Aquisition)
Suppressors don't make guns silent. Your auto gun is about as stealthy as your lasgun, except a lasgun might make less sound
... But more light.
Tell that to muzzle flash
That’s what the suppressor is for.
I'm not sure where I said they do make guns silent lol? What I'm saying is I've never read about suppressed lasguns in any of the lore whereas I assume you can suppress an autogun. I would therefore conclude a suppressed autogun would be quieter than an unsuppressed lasgun.
Not exactly what you mean but in Rebel Winter a Vostroyanian sniper uses a solid round rifle instead of a long las since he thinks it helps conceal his position better.
IIRC that the issue was that las weapons leave behind a visible trail. Las weapons do tend to be easier to use compared to solid rounds.
Depends on the mission and not for the reason you describe, but yes certainly possible. In Gaunt's Ghosts during the Gereon mission, Chaos forces pick up on the fact that something is amiss because las weapons are used instead of the normal autoguns used by partisans.
Additionally the Ghosts switched their sidearms to supressable solid rounds. Mkoll advises Gaunt to use one instead of his usual Bolt pistol. And the others use them I stead of the usual laspistol
Indigan Praefects prefer auto weapons over las weapons because it allows them to use different specialist "hunting" rounds. Las weapons are generally more economical, however, thanks to their ability to recharge rather than relying on supply lines.
Depends on what we call in the business METT-TC. English speakers would call it conditions on the ground but anyway, autoguns are just slug weapons like present day firearms more or less. Infiltration missions generally cease to be stealthy once you have to fire your weapon regardless of what it is because the light and noise signature gives you away.
In Kingmaker, one of the Assassins uses a lasgun with a clear bolt, which basically means that the shots are invisible. Probably not readily available to the majority of soldiers, but more elite specialists could probably get one.
Suppressed firearms are still really loud. You're not taking people out silently with a rifle no matter how large the suppressor (like you see in movies). Lasguns would be invisible just by moving the frequency into the near IR (though that comes with issues of absorption) and they're not going to make a lot of noise - a loud snap near the emitter maybe.
A lot of the loudness with modern firearms is from the proojectile breaking the sound barrier. Even with a suppressor and subsonic ammo and a shorter barrel, it’snstill pretty loud
There’s a short internal monologue in Assassinorum Kingmaker where a Vindicare Assassin explains his distaste for las weapons. Considering that a Vindicare is meant to be the absolute best stealthy marksman the Imperium has to offer, I’d be inclined to defer to his opinions on what types of weapons are best for special operations. He particularly dislikes how las weapons have low shot-to-shot consistency because of fluctuating power levels. He also explains that unlike with conventional firearms, a las weapon does not enable you to pack your own ammunition tailored to the shot you need take. He admits they are a technological marvel and are immensely useful to the guard, just not to him. He obviously favors his exitus pistol and rifle primarily, but isn’t afraid to acknowledge that they are not suited for every occasion either. They are bulky, difficult to conceal on one’s person, and can sometimes pack TOO MUCH of a punch. Usually, utterly obliterating a target is exactly what you want. But sometimes you may find yourself in a situation where instantly turning someone’s head into pulp will draw too much attention. For more covert close-quarters kills, he has a compact stub pistol with a silencer. Small, easy to stash somewhere inconspicuous, and fires tiny rounds which have just enough power to pierce a skull and bounce around inside. It’s fast, leaves no exit wounds or obvious external signs of trauma, and produces no more sound than an industrial paper binder. Nice and clean. Obviously the exact best weapon depends on the task at hand, but if you’re talking about things like stealth and wetwork, it seems like something which fires a conventional hard round is indeed the right play.
Makes sense to me.
Lasers don't go "boom", which might be helpful in stealth.
The giant bright red laser pointing back to the shooter’s position every time they shoot, on the other hand… Also, silencers are a thing that exist in real life, never mind the 41st millennium. Though from what I recall some authors have had stealthy versions of las weapons too.
and the audible "crack" of the lasbeam ionizing air
Lasers in reality are typically in the invisible parts of the spectrum though. Most of the industrial lasers I've worked with for ablation (vaporizing the metal) are in infrared or ultraviolet spectrum.
In For The Emperoer, Cain’s special team’s sniper had a suppressed long las
Silencers are nothing like films, and bullets cause a loud flash as well as a bang. Lasers win.
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We’re not talking about real life, we’re talking about 40kLore. Imperium las weapons have always been portrayed as highly visible bright red beams.
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They are visible in 40k. Just like how the Warp exists and chainsaw swords are useful weapons in melee combat. 40k is not and has pretended to be a strictly realistic hard sci-fi setting.
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The books also include countless descriptions of lasguns firing highly visible light beams. If you can find any sources stating that 40k las weapons are invisible to the naked eye, I would be interested to see them.
Please, for the love of God, read litteraly any piece of 40k media before trying to tell other people how it works
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… the Dark Imperium books literally describe the lasers as visible.
I'd actually reckon that lasguns might be easier to 'suppress' than autoguns, maybe not the sound of the beams, but it might be possible to rig them to fire only light from parts of the spectrum not normally visible to their opposition. I don't have the background in actual physics + sci fantasy physics to have any idea how feasible that is though. One reason a unit or a campaign/theater logistical chain might favor autoguns over laguns is if local conditions make it more difficult than normal to recharge lasgun charge packs. Usually that's an extra selling point of the lasgun over solid round equivalents, you can charge a charge pack simply by leaving it out in bright sunlight, or by throwing it in a campfire (briefly) to charge one up quick. If conditions in a theater made either of those methods unfeasible--inclement outside conditions from extreme cold or heat, or toxic environments, just off the top of my head--it could be more economical for the Munitorum to equip imperial troops with solid round weapons, especially if there's a local industrial base capable of producing those weapons and ammunition in or near the actual theater of war to supply them. Not that it being more *economical* means that's how the Imperium would end up doing things, it's a monstrously complex and horrifically inefficient beast at the best of times. However, a command with enough direct say in how and from where their forces are supplied, say forces directly commandeered by the Inquisition or supplied by the networks of an especially cooperative Rogue Trader dynasty, could enforce these kinds of equipment and requisition changes to make a campaign run more efficiently and effectively. For these reasons I think the Imperial armed forces most likely to use autoguns regularly would be PDF formations from worlds whose conditions already favor solid slug over las personal firearms.
Lasguns are used for line infantry due to ammo capacity. You'd want suppressed autoguns for stealth units.
The main reason to use auto guns is when you’re infiltrating without support. Las gun barrels burn out, the energy packs can get damaged, they’re great with supply lines. One of the gaunts ghosts books goes into this. They’re dropping a team on a chaos controlled world for an extended mission and swapped all their normal gear for dummy simple gear and auto guns.
That's silly. Projectile weapons suffer from parts wear as well. Same with rifle magazines. You bend a feed lip on a STANAG 30 round magazine it's fucked if you don't have the tools to fix it, you might as well chuck it. Also the ammunition for autoguns is limited by physical mass while laspacks can be recharged.
For special forces there is the Retribution Long-las, although I doubt it is widely used or particularly popular with officers. Otherwise...autoguns have greater access to special ammunition. From armour-piercing ammunition, poison ammunition, incendiary ammunition, manstoppers, ammunition with explosive cores and stun ammunition, there is plenty to choose from. This allows you to deploy much more flexibly. In RPGs, autoguns can fire considerably more projectiles and therefore provide better suppressive fire than lasguns. But the lasgun with its long las is basically the better alternative for the Imperial Guard.
Retribution Long-Las is just one variation, RPG's have an upgrade option hiding the flash which can be installed on any lasgun (Rogue Trader - Hostile Aquisition)