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Terra is worse by miles.
We get a great look into the life of normal humans in the first Dawn of Fire book. There's a story arc about a woman who's job is to sort request for aid from the wider galaxy. She's ~~illiterate~~, functionally illiterate, can't do math, sleeps in a room with a bunch of her fellow workers and her actual job is to sit in a cube for 10 hours a day getting bundles of scrolls with colored wax on them and drop them into the correct tube.
Another character is a checker. His entire life is just digging (and I do mean literally digging, dude lives in a scroll cave) through piles of scrolls with a pitchfork looking for incorrectly sorted aid request. He's found 3 in 20 years. All 3 sorters were killed for their error.
In another hive tower there is a full blown war going on between scribs who need more parchment to do their job, and recyclers who need to burn old parchment to power the tower. Literal battles, gunfire, and death over who gets used paper.
Edit: the woman I mentioned *can* read, but doesn't actually know what most of what she's "reading means. She sorts her documents based on an assortment of seals, signs, colors, and stamps applied by other departments before she gets it.
The other aweful things about Terra is the seemingly hereditary nature of every position from the overseer who’s life is atleast marginally pleasant enough that he has a tiny hab of his own & and could maybe save a small chunk of change to purchase a thing of any kind, to the women described above, who’s father grandfather, great… all lived and died in that same metal cube dispassionately sorting what are all functionally ‘red-alerts’ or desperate pleas for assistance of any kind into categories based on what I assume to be the powers that be give a fuck factor for a particular system or region. With most ending unread being fought over by parchment clans.
I (embarrassingly) haven’t read 1984 so can’t compare, but I can think I of nothing more soul sucking, than that the fact that from birth your life is almost entirely deterministic & each day will be so identically repeated you’ll hardly feel time pass or have any meaningful experiences to act as landmarks in your memory, until you croak at your desk & your body is out within the hour with whatever offspring you were given the chance to reproduce, sat in your seat to repeat a life so identical that it may as well still be you.
Poverty, hunger, squalor, violence, brutality & surveillance by authorities are all horrendous but I’d take them before I traded in my last shred of agency in for the definition the most bland determinismistic (un) comfortably numb existence imaginable where I do not even decide when I eat or sleep, and can only fail at my function not succeed. I don’t even get the gift of a mind to escape into as I’m barley even conscious of a world outside my metal cube in a gargantuan mountain of identical metal cubes
If purgatory exists it’s either a hospital waiting room that never calls your name. Or if God is as sadistic as I read him to be in the Abrahamic holy texts, it’s a 1000 years as a piece of human fodder in the administratum.
(I think the automod servitors biological remnants are failing, separation of organic & non organic components shouldn be scheduled immediately for the recycling of both.
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The books ok but this particular arc is one of my favorite stories in all 40k. The woman I mentioned gets to go on a Disney Princess style journey that goes about as well as that should in 40k.
She ends up going on a quest and there is rule that if she gets caught before a certain distance she will be executed for abandoning her job, but if she makes it to another zone controlled by another section of the administration she will be considered blessed by the emperor and can be free since she made it that far.
Oh and her quest is just clerical work that needs done
I love that if scribes can escape a specific radius of their cubical they become "Scribe Errants" on a mission from God. I'm sure this is 100% a religious thing and has no relation to the cost of returning them to their cubical.
Cawl? Genefather shares my top spot for best book with the great work just because of him. My god, my heart. I love the guy so much. Anyways, apparently the gathering storm campaign books (i haven’t read them yet), and apparently some of the horus heresy books, but I haven’t gotten to those yet.
Edit: Oh, and also some of the Dawn of fire books, and the Dark Imperium books. But TgW and Genefather are probably him at his very very best.
That's great, really shows that it's not just the emperor who is a living corpse. The empire itself is too.
1984s Oceania was fine for the proles, they didn't notice any difference mostly.
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Yeah but she was trained to look for specific keywords, not trained to read. That way she couldn’t read the classified info. Just basically pattern matching.
This must be the checker who travels to see her dad to get help and links up with a recycle guy, who dies protecting her just to find out she's the one who found the 300 year old request the head logister for guilliman just blew off before the indomitus crusade, who was given the tome by a greater deamon of nurgle (rotigus?) about imperium secundus.
Yes, she did deliver the message within the imperial beuracracy, but logisters are assigned to the several battle fleets of the indomitus crusade to record battle actions and recover old history for the Primarch.
Fairly likely to be worse on Terra in my opinion, the bulk of the population in 1984 are Proles, who live in poverty but are relatively unregulated and have their own fairly unregulated trade, which also implies a degree of free capital to spend and even discretionary spending.
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What Terra does not differ from 1984. There, too, workers have access to income which they can spend on small comforts. There are also taverns and merchants there...they have to trade with something and someone.
The difference being you can experience something like prole life today, while living a Terran hivers experience is something I'm not convinced 21st century human physiology, without any legacy tinkering from the DAoT to explain away survival in horrific conditions, would be able to endure.
Humans are able to endure the most appalling conditions, we are a pretty tough (if horrifically inbred) species. But yes, the way Terra in 40k is polluted, i doubt people would be able to even produce somewhat healthy offspring.
The only thing in human history I can think of that even vaguely emulates living in a hive city is [Kowloon Walled City.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City) At one point the most densely populated place on earth. An utter chaos of insane buildings piled on top of one another with no regulation, ruled by gangs. It's basically Necromundus.
I know it HAD to be torn down, but I'm still sad such a weird, freakish place no longer exists. The world is less strange, which is always hard on me.
I've heard from 40K fans in South America that they don't think the living conditions are that different from their slums. The definition of hellhole is very different even today. And civilian life in Imperium is described in the TRPGs (though not Terra). It's hard and cruel (for a western socialised person in the heart of Germany), but nothing for which you need genetic modifications from the DAOT
For real I think since WH appeals mostly to a western and well off audience the concept of "Hive cities" is terrifying, meanwhile for ppl in South America like myself we can all point to a neighborhood or even city which is basically a mini hive city, mismatched buildings about to collapse and Ganga ruling everything and living off scraps from the "upper levels of the hive"
Is almost as if this franchise was meant to serve as a ridiculous mirror to our world... I bet there must be a name for that
Siginificantly less chance of being lobotmised and turned into a morbid vending machine in '84 though.
Terra is one of the worst planets to live on in all of 40k, I'd sooner chance my luck on a ship in the Warp than being on Terra - at least daemons will have the good graces to kill me
In 1984 they fuck your brain and turn you into a servitor even without tech...😁...
And yes, Terra is shit even under the Hive Worlds, although they also have quite good taverns there where you can meet Space Wolves...
Depending on the ship, it can also be quite nice. A quiet merchant ship with a fixed route in one of the core sectors can be quite nice. Ships of the AdMech are an absolute bomb. The Navy is a gamble ... the numbers are good, but the probability that they won't have to pay out is quite high.
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More likely too impotent to be able to remove the oceans. (Though I imagine that at some point in 1984's world they rewrote history for a bit to convince everyone oceans didn't exist, both as a test to see how far they could force people to bend, and just to fuck with everyone.)
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Terra has the potential of getting caught up in random daemon or genestealer cult attacks. There's also mass unemployment and having to scrape by among the slums & shanty towns.
Oceania you just have to work and not ask questions, in exchange for an apartment, entertainment (even if it's all propaganda) and both food & water. It's a far more stable, sustainable and outright better standard of living.
From what I have read, being part of a genestealer cult is not that bad (at least isn't in Day of Ascencion).
They help each other, seem to have a sense of comunity.
Terra by far more miserable.
In 1984 if you die, you die - in 40k there is a chance that after death you'll be turned into fleshlight for a demon.
1984, no aliens that can turn you into a chair. 40k, there are aliens that can turn you into a chair.
>40k there is a chance that after death you'll be turned into fleshlight for a demon.
Most souls simply disappear in the warp for normal humans and if you are born psyker in Terra of all places there are bigger things you should worry about
>40k, there are aliens that can turn you into a chair.
I mean since the question itself is Terra, the DEldar are unlikely to come to the Throneworld where the best of the best in the Imperium are ready to shoot you down without question.
They only entered in Vaults of Terra because the high lords allowed it until even they decided they aren't worth it.
Fair points. But there’s parts of Terra not being watched where all manner of nightmare fuel exists.
Although I’d still want to live on Holy Terra then in Oceana. Like all I have to do is keep my head down and do my job and I get paid and get food. In Oceana they could string me up or make it look like I was a terrible person just for the sake of public moral when I am executed.
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in 1984 winston is always bitching that the free gin and cigarettes are substandard. we should be so lucky
if you ever have time, the "review" Isaac Asimov wrote of 1984 is pretty funny. dude absolutely fucking hated the book:
https://www.newworker.org/ncptrory/1984.htm
>I've been writing a four-part article for Field Newspaper Syndicate at the beginning of each year for several years now and in 1980, mindful of the approach of the year 1984, FNS asked me to write a thorough critique of George Orwell's novel 1984.
I was reluctant. I remembered almost nothing of the book and said so -
but Denison Demac, the lovely young woman who is my contact at FNS, simply sent me a copy of it and said, 'Read it.'
So I read it and found myself absolutely astonished at what I read. Iwondered how many people who talked about the novel so glibly had ever read
it; or if they had, whether they remembered it at all.
I felt I would have to write the critique if only to set people straight.
(I'm sorry; I love setting people straight.)
Isaac marry me
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i don't agree with all of the review but i think he makes some good points and some of it is pretty funny.
"There he found himself caught up in the sectarian struggles between the various left-wing factions, and since he believed in a gentlemanly English form of socialism, he was inevitably on the losing side."
also going into just how much 1984 is misused as a general "big government bad" shorthand, and how weak the female characters are.
for my part, my favorite reading of the book is that the rest of the world is completely fine and this insane implementation of socialism can be wholly attributed to it being managed by the british
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Even if we ignore the societal differences, Terra's environment is so ruined, so crowded, and so polluted that it's barely survivable just to be there. What we would consider third world slums would be a giant improvement over nearly all of Terra.
Terra is 100% worse, Oceania seems to be relatively safe, there’s not a lot of violence in the steets even in the ghettos. If you are a good lapdog you would probably be able to enjoy a long life, a spouse and kids. It seems you at least won’t fill out starve either.
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Oceania seems much better.
In Oceania, you basically have the same life you have today in a normal western nation, just somewhat worse. But you get shelter, food, entertainment, live in a somewhat shabby, but normal flat, and are mostly safe. As long as you keep your mouth shut, government leaves you alone.
Now on Terra, you have all that, but aditionally: Demons, criminals of all kinds running wild, every possible form of biohazard, press-ganging, riots, famine, crumbling building, extreme weather, aliens, genestealers, Dark Eldar torturers and so on.
If I'm born into the society, it doesn't matter to me, because enculturation means that is the society I know. But if I'm getting isekaid into the reality, Oceania by a lightyear. Just quietly settle into living with the prols and live my life. Unless I get to pick. Then I want to be a techpriest. Send my ass to Mars.
>or total destruction of the natural environment
Only because environmental concerns were much less of an issue when it was written. With our understanding of such now, the environment in 1984 would realistically be fucking terrible due to how inefficient and purposefully wasteful Oceania is.
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I’ll take Oceania at least they’re trying to pretend things are good and people have some form of housing/life to live on Terra it’s like ‘you better be perfectly aware of your suffering and love it or we’ll force good behavior through servitor conversion. . . :)’
1984’s Oceania ends so surely anyone would say that? The appendices are all written in-universe in the past tense, so we know there’s more hope than anywhere in 40K of progress.
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Rule 4: No Memes, shitposts, or low-effort postsor comments. Leave those in /r/Grimdank. This includes "who would win" and broad "what if" scenarios. This also includes text blocks consisting of Ork-speak, which should be posted at /r/40kOrkScience instead.
Terra is worse by miles. We get a great look into the life of normal humans in the first Dawn of Fire book. There's a story arc about a woman who's job is to sort request for aid from the wider galaxy. She's ~~illiterate~~, functionally illiterate, can't do math, sleeps in a room with a bunch of her fellow workers and her actual job is to sit in a cube for 10 hours a day getting bundles of scrolls with colored wax on them and drop them into the correct tube. Another character is a checker. His entire life is just digging (and I do mean literally digging, dude lives in a scroll cave) through piles of scrolls with a pitchfork looking for incorrectly sorted aid request. He's found 3 in 20 years. All 3 sorters were killed for their error. In another hive tower there is a full blown war going on between scribs who need more parchment to do their job, and recyclers who need to burn old parchment to power the tower. Literal battles, gunfire, and death over who gets used paper. Edit: the woman I mentioned *can* read, but doesn't actually know what most of what she's "reading means. She sorts her documents based on an assortment of seals, signs, colors, and stamps applied by other departments before she gets it.
The battle between recyclers and incinerators over parchment is so perfectly Warhammer. The exact right balance of silly and utterly horrible.
The other aweful things about Terra is the seemingly hereditary nature of every position from the overseer who’s life is atleast marginally pleasant enough that he has a tiny hab of his own & and could maybe save a small chunk of change to purchase a thing of any kind, to the women described above, who’s father grandfather, great… all lived and died in that same metal cube dispassionately sorting what are all functionally ‘red-alerts’ or desperate pleas for assistance of any kind into categories based on what I assume to be the powers that be give a fuck factor for a particular system or region. With most ending unread being fought over by parchment clans. I (embarrassingly) haven’t read 1984 so can’t compare, but I can think I of nothing more soul sucking, than that the fact that from birth your life is almost entirely deterministic & each day will be so identically repeated you’ll hardly feel time pass or have any meaningful experiences to act as landmarks in your memory, until you croak at your desk & your body is out within the hour with whatever offspring you were given the chance to reproduce, sat in your seat to repeat a life so identical that it may as well still be you. Poverty, hunger, squalor, violence, brutality & surveillance by authorities are all horrendous but I’d take them before I traded in my last shred of agency in for the definition the most bland determinismistic (un) comfortably numb existence imaginable where I do not even decide when I eat or sleep, and can only fail at my function not succeed. I don’t even get the gift of a mind to escape into as I’m barley even conscious of a world outside my metal cube in a gargantuan mountain of identical metal cubes If purgatory exists it’s either a hospital waiting room that never calls your name. Or if God is as sadistic as I read him to be in the Abrahamic holy texts, it’s a 1000 years as a piece of human fodder in the administratum. (I think the automod servitors biological remnants are failing, separation of organic & non organic components shouldn be scheduled immediately for the recycling of both.
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I need to read this book
The books ok but this particular arc is one of my favorite stories in all 40k. The woman I mentioned gets to go on a Disney Princess style journey that goes about as well as that should in 40k.
That sounds schadenfreude
For me or the setting? Because yes.
She ends up going on a quest and there is rule that if she gets caught before a certain distance she will be executed for abandoning her job, but if she makes it to another zone controlled by another section of the administration she will be considered blessed by the emperor and can be free since she made it that far. Oh and her quest is just clerical work that needs done
I love that if scribes can escape a specific radius of their cubical they become "Scribe Errants" on a mission from God. I'm sure this is 100% a religious thing and has no relation to the cost of returning them to their cubical.
You want watchers of the throne as well. One of the main characters is the >!leader/doorkeeper of the Council of the High Lords of Terra. !<
Who has quickly become my favorite character alongside cawl.
What book is he in? I'm about to start Carrion throne too. Besides his own "Belisarius Cawl: The Great Work" of course.
Cawl? Genefather shares my top spot for best book with the great work just because of him. My god, my heart. I love the guy so much. Anyways, apparently the gathering storm campaign books (i haven’t read them yet), and apparently some of the horus heresy books, but I haven’t gotten to those yet. Edit: Oh, and also some of the Dawn of fire books, and the Dark Imperium books. But TgW and Genefather are probably him at his very very best.
It’s pretty grim dark, and just avoids being grim derp imo. Good read.
I'd also highly recommend the Vaults of Terra series, if youve not read them already. They do a fantastic job exploring the utter grimness of Terra
It has a massively depressing ending though
These bits about ordinary folks on Terra are so fucking good.
That's great, really shows that it's not just the emperor who is a living corpse. The empire itself is too. 1984s Oceania was fine for the proles, they didn't notice any difference mostly.
>1984s Oceania was fine for the proles, they didn't notice any difference mostly. They sure missed the old pint-sized pints, though.
Pints getting smaller? Literally 1984
Literally 😂
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Apart from their houses getting sporadically bombed to fuel fake wars. Still probably better than Terra though.
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Was she illiterate? I recall her whole thing was being a cubicle worker who sorted documents.
Yeah but she was trained to look for specific keywords, not trained to read. That way she couldn’t read the classified info. Just basically pattern matching.
Ah, fair enough.
This must be the checker who travels to see her dad to get help and links up with a recycle guy, who dies protecting her just to find out she's the one who found the 300 year old request the head logister for guilliman just blew off before the indomitus crusade, who was given the tome by a greater deamon of nurgle (rotigus?) about imperium secundus.
You forgot the part where she is one of many many people delivering the same request for aid to the logister.
Yes, she did deliver the message within the imperial beuracracy, but logisters are assigned to the several battle fleets of the indomitus crusade to record battle actions and recover old history for the Primarch.
Meanwhile my custom Forge World is happily scanning and storing digitally but won't share the tech with outsiders.
*Glances at overfilling and slowly crashing Votann How big is your computer again?
They're OK. They're using a cracked version of WinRAR to compress the archives.
Sounds like an easy job at least. No pointless meetings or bosses breathing down your neck.
Fairly likely to be worse on Terra in my opinion, the bulk of the population in 1984 are Proles, who live in poverty but are relatively unregulated and have their own fairly unregulated trade, which also implies a degree of free capital to spend and even discretionary spending.
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I wasn't expecting this to be an automod message
What Terra does not differ from 1984. There, too, workers have access to income which they can spend on small comforts. There are also taverns and merchants there...they have to trade with something and someone.
The difference being you can experience something like prole life today, while living a Terran hivers experience is something I'm not convinced 21st century human physiology, without any legacy tinkering from the DAoT to explain away survival in horrific conditions, would be able to endure.
Humans are able to endure the most appalling conditions, we are a pretty tough (if horrifically inbred) species. But yes, the way Terra in 40k is polluted, i doubt people would be able to even produce somewhat healthy offspring.
The only thing in human history I can think of that even vaguely emulates living in a hive city is [Kowloon Walled City.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City) At one point the most densely populated place on earth. An utter chaos of insane buildings piled on top of one another with no regulation, ruled by gangs. It's basically Necromundus. I know it HAD to be torn down, but I'm still sad such a weird, freakish place no longer exists. The world is less strange, which is always hard on me.
And to think that 90% percent of terra (and pretty much all hive cities) are basically this on steroids
I've heard from 40K fans in South America that they don't think the living conditions are that different from their slums. The definition of hellhole is very different even today. And civilian life in Imperium is described in the TRPGs (though not Terra). It's hard and cruel (for a western socialised person in the heart of Germany), but nothing for which you need genetic modifications from the DAOT
For real I think since WH appeals mostly to a western and well off audience the concept of "Hive cities" is terrifying, meanwhile for ppl in South America like myself we can all point to a neighborhood or even city which is basically a mini hive city, mismatched buildings about to collapse and Ganga ruling everything and living off scraps from the "upper levels of the hive" Is almost as if this franchise was meant to serve as a ridiculous mirror to our world... I bet there must be a name for that
Siginificantly less chance of being lobotmised and turned into a morbid vending machine in '84 though. Terra is one of the worst planets to live on in all of 40k, I'd sooner chance my luck on a ship in the Warp than being on Terra - at least daemons will have the good graces to kill me
In 1984 they fuck your brain and turn you into a servitor even without tech...😁... And yes, Terra is shit even under the Hive Worlds, although they also have quite good taverns there where you can meet Space Wolves... Depending on the ship, it can also be quite nice. A quiet merchant ship with a fixed route in one of the core sectors can be quite nice. Ships of the AdMech are an absolute bomb. The Navy is a gamble ... the numbers are good, but the probability that they won't have to pay out is quite high.
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Moreover, 1984 implies that the society depended credit was just a temporary phase and it got better. For 40K there isn’t much hope.
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Deepens on how you feel about the possibility of getting an overly firm tongue bath from a four armed friend.
The extra arms are for extra hugs
Where do I sign up. I could use a hug or two.
Honestly, that makes your life *better*. Genestealer Cultists at least have a sense of fulfillment (albeit as a result of psychic influence).
I agree, but that’s a preference thing that’s hard to quantify.
They're also the guys most likely to run a soup kitchen. If your life is shit with no chance of improvement, cults are a great resource.
Oceania still has a functional ecosystem. That alone makes it more tolerable.
What is this? Rain? Oceans? Is big brother some sorta hippy?
More likely too impotent to be able to remove the oceans. (Though I imagine that at some point in 1984's world they rewrote history for a bit to convince everyone oceans didn't exist, both as a test to see how far they could force people to bend, and just to fuck with everyone.)
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Terra has the potential of getting caught up in random daemon or genestealer cult attacks. There's also mass unemployment and having to scrape by among the slums & shanty towns. Oceania you just have to work and not ask questions, in exchange for an apartment, entertainment (even if it's all propaganda) and both food & water. It's a far more stable, sustainable and outright better standard of living.
From what I have read, being part of a genestealer cult is not that bad (at least isn't in Day of Ascencion). They help each other, seem to have a sense of comunity.
Terra by far more miserable. In 1984 if you die, you die - in 40k there is a chance that after death you'll be turned into fleshlight for a demon. 1984, no aliens that can turn you into a chair. 40k, there are aliens that can turn you into a chair.
>40k there is a chance that after death you'll be turned into fleshlight for a demon. Most souls simply disappear in the warp for normal humans and if you are born psyker in Terra of all places there are bigger things you should worry about >40k, there are aliens that can turn you into a chair. I mean since the question itself is Terra, the DEldar are unlikely to come to the Throneworld where the best of the best in the Imperium are ready to shoot you down without question. They only entered in Vaults of Terra because the high lords allowed it until even they decided they aren't worth it.
Fair points. But there’s parts of Terra not being watched where all manner of nightmare fuel exists. Although I’d still want to live on Holy Terra then in Oceana. Like all I have to do is keep my head down and do my job and I get paid and get food. In Oceana they could string me up or make it look like I was a terrible person just for the sake of public moral when I am executed.
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Seriously? Send me to Oceania any time. Terra is an entirely different level of hellscape.
1984 has the potential to unfuck itself, 40k is fucked forever
Yeah. The appendix on newspeak IIRC even refers to Oceania in the past tense, which suggest it *did* unfuck itself.
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auto moderate yourself into a garbage disposal
Shut uuuuuup
At least I have a shot at outliving IngSoc.
in 1984 winston is always bitching that the free gin and cigarettes are substandard. we should be so lucky if you ever have time, the "review" Isaac Asimov wrote of 1984 is pretty funny. dude absolutely fucking hated the book: https://www.newworker.org/ncptrory/1984.htm
>I've been writing a four-part article for Field Newspaper Syndicate at the beginning of each year for several years now and in 1980, mindful of the approach of the year 1984, FNS asked me to write a thorough critique of George Orwell's novel 1984. I was reluctant. I remembered almost nothing of the book and said so - but Denison Demac, the lovely young woman who is my contact at FNS, simply sent me a copy of it and said, 'Read it.' So I read it and found myself absolutely astonished at what I read. Iwondered how many people who talked about the novel so glibly had ever read it; or if they had, whether they remembered it at all. I felt I would have to write the critique if only to set people straight. (I'm sorry; I love setting people straight.) Isaac marry me
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Asimov abhorring 1984 is up there with Tolkien hating (very politely) the fuck out of Dune. Even legendary writers have terrible takes at times.
i don't agree with all of the review but i think he makes some good points and some of it is pretty funny. "There he found himself caught up in the sectarian struggles between the various left-wing factions, and since he believed in a gentlemanly English form of socialism, he was inevitably on the losing side." also going into just how much 1984 is misused as a general "big government bad" shorthand, and how weak the female characters are. for my part, my favorite reading of the book is that the rest of the world is completely fine and this insane implementation of socialism can be wholly attributed to it being managed by the british
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I think Tolkien hating Dune is mostly due to his religion and how religion is portrayed in Dune.
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Aaand I can see why he hated it now. Jesus why do these things never come up elsewhise?
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Terra is fucking bleak.
Orwell's 1984, easily, bot least because the afterword makes it clear Oceania fell.
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Even if we ignore the societal differences, Terra's environment is so ruined, so crowded, and so polluted that it's barely survivable just to be there. What we would consider third world slums would be a giant improvement over nearly all of Terra.
Terra. Terra by a long shot. You literally develop gray skin from living on Terra because the environment is so awful.
Terra is 100% worse, Oceania seems to be relatively safe, there’s not a lot of violence in the steets even in the ghettos. If you are a good lapdog you would probably be able to enjoy a long life, a spouse and kids. It seems you at least won’t fill out starve either.
1984 has oppressive rules but at least you can generally intuit them and the air is breathable without implants.
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Oceania seems much better. In Oceania, you basically have the same life you have today in a normal western nation, just somewhat worse. But you get shelter, food, entertainment, live in a somewhat shabby, but normal flat, and are mostly safe. As long as you keep your mouth shut, government leaves you alone. Now on Terra, you have all that, but aditionally: Demons, criminals of all kinds running wild, every possible form of biohazard, press-ganging, riots, famine, crumbling building, extreme weather, aliens, genestealers, Dark Eldar torturers and so on.
“ It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable.” is pretty clear my dude. Give me Oceania all the way.
imagine removing a post with over 100 comments. 3 hours after it was created.
thank the mods
it's their fault for allowing it to get so many comments. should keep it up.
Id rather have the God Emperor of Mankind than Newspeak.
If I'm born into the society, it doesn't matter to me, because enculturation means that is the society I know. But if I'm getting isekaid into the reality, Oceania by a lightyear. Just quietly settle into living with the prols and live my life. Unless I get to pick. Then I want to be a techpriest. Send my ass to Mars.
>or total destruction of the natural environment Only because environmental concerns were much less of an issue when it was written. With our understanding of such now, the environment in 1984 would realistically be fucking terrible due to how inefficient and purposefully wasteful Oceania is.
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[удалено]
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Oceania didn't sound like it was on the verge of complete collapse any second now. As opposed, to Terra......
It’s been a few years, but I don’t remember any daemonic incursions or genestealer cult uprisings mentioned in 1984.
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The regular workers aren't under surveillance in 1984.
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I’ll take Oceania at least they’re trying to pretend things are good and people have some form of housing/life to live on Terra it’s like ‘you better be perfectly aware of your suffering and love it or we’ll force good behavior through servitor conversion. . . :)’
1984’s Oceania ends so surely anyone would say that? The appendices are all written in-universe in the past tense, so we know there’s more hope than anywhere in 40K of progress.
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I's take Terra. I could have wayyyy more freedom there than in Oceania, and probably wouldn't even be there that long.