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therosx

They were actually buds. That's what their relationship was.


Seeker80

Unlike Palpatine & Vader. Palpy keeps calling Vader 'my friend,' but it almost seems like a taunt.


karingalhrofdin

Obligatory u/emwattnot summary of their relationship: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/157bsj5/the\_end\_and\_the\_death\_of\_the\_greatest\_friendship/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/157bsj5/the_end_and_the_death_of_the_greatest_friendship/)


SnooOranges4231

Dang that hit WAY harder than I expected 


StoneLich

It's because they're friends


LocalLumberJ0hn

Fellas, is it symbolism to have friends?


ThePatio

No but it is like, hella gay


LocalLumberJ0hn

Two perpetuals, sitting in a hot tub Five feet apart because they're not gay


cro666

I was sat in a hot tub five foot away from a friend once. I commented that the bubbles felt really good on my balls. My friend agreed and said that bubbles felt great on his toes..... It was at this moment, we realised we fucked up.


feor1300

Then Bubbles told you both to shut up cause you were ruining the moment.


snorkeling_moose

Joke's on Malky, Jimmy Space's dick is 6 feet long


Comprehensive_Bid229

But were they gay in every life? Or just the last one


Ceb1302

Is it gay if one of them uses their ~~magic~~ ~~godly~~ psychic powers to change into a woman?


cal-brew-sharp

No but having a callidus assassin assuming their form so you can get railed is.


NomadkingR6

Plot twist Macaldor is the REAL mother of the Primarchs, and Erda was just a third wheel


Cynis_Ganan

They were obviously room mates.


kooarbiter

in the 40k universe? yes


KyuuMann

With benefits?


Low-Abalone-5259

Malcador is truly the Emperor's only real friend. He's been at his side for thousands of years, sharing victory, setback, achievement, and disappointment. He gave everything he had to the Emperor and his dream. The only other unique relationships in this vein that we see are the Primarchs (very obvious, he is their father) and the Custodes and the Sisters of Silence. The Sisters often just call the Emperor 'Him' while the Custodes never call him Emperor, always 'My King' or 'King of Ages' and are the only group to call him king.


Dragon_Fisting

The Emperor's real friends and acquaintances are the Perpetuals. Malcador is the only one left by his side in 31k, but he speaks to them remarkably differently. It makes sense, his super-powered sons are a few centuries old, even Valdor is maybe a millenia old at best, basically infants compared to 36,000+ year old Johnny Space. Ollanius talking to Big E as he's ascending into the Dark King in EATD gives exactly the same vibes as bumping into an old high school friend at an awkward moment.


Low-Abalone-5259

Yes, but I discounted the other Perpetuals because they are all gone, dead, or in Oll's case, caused a rift by (temporarily) killing Big E. Malcador is the only one left by his side. Side note: listening to Malc the hero climb the Throne with Jonathan Keeble narrating was really fantastic.


penguinchem13

IIRC it's never said that he killed the Emperor, just that he stabbed him.


Low-Abalone-5259

True enough, but I doubt a simple flesh wound would prevent Big E from taking a Tower coveted in Enuncia, or allow Oll enough time to destroy it with bronze age weapons


penguinchem13

Oll destroyed the tower with Enuncia


Ephriel

>killing big e He got better


misterbung

Oh hey bud there bud, long time no see. Oh sorry, sorry didn't meant to interrupt your ascension into a horrible otherworldy god there. So, ah... how're the kids? Oh? Oh. Oh sorry, yeah they can be rough. Can't leave em alone with your stuff sometimes, they just break it! Hah! Ahhh. Yeah so. Anyway. Uh.


miraak2077

What is eatd?


Expensive_Tadpole789

The end and the death The last book (actually, it's three) in the Siege of Terra series and the end of the Horus Heresy


miraak2077

Is it canon? I thought the dark king didn't exist yet


Dragon_Fisting

It is canon, spoiler: He doesn't become the Dark King. It does come into play though.


miraak2077

Oh okay


marehgul

it's a must-read


PANTERlA

Yes it's canon, the dark king was part of the latter 2 volumes of the book.


marehgul

Man... it's like lastest lore. It is as canon as it could be.


marehgul

Well pretty sure Emperor relations with Oll are leaning to the same category. An old grudge, disagreement, stretched to tens of thousands of years, betrayal that Emperor didn't seek to avenge. Still an old friend in the end and he gave his life for. I wouldn't call Primarchs having same bond with HIm. They didn't share AS much knowledge about universe, history and humanity. Custodes are His doubtless guard. Perpetuals were those who can have real bond with Him. Primarchs didn't have anough time.


Low-Abalone-5259

Prior to Babylon, definitely a similar relationship. After, who knows, but Big E at least respected Oll enough not to hunt him down.


Bloodthirster40k

That was what I was getting at. Everyone is under him, everyone should refer to him with reverence. Even if a prince grows up with a friend by the time he becomes a king most likely that friend will refer to him as such and not speak with familiarity. So I found it interesting that Malcador would call him something so simple.


Low-Abalone-5259

The Emperor wouldn't have it. He treats Malcador as an equal because they are friends. Just below the highest level of Golden Throne dais was a bench. That bench was for Malcador. No one else. Malcador was closer to the Emperor, even in his most vulnerable physical state than even his life ward Custodes. We see more of this in the way that they speak to one another. Malcador, on occasion, has even chastised the Emperor. And while Malc often says 'my master' he often in the same sentence also says 'my friend' implying that the 2 are not mutually exclusive. It is a very interesting dynamic, but I feel like Malcador is necessary to add a more relatable, human dynamic to the Emperor, mostly for us as readers. Otherwise what we are left with is a golden immortal warrior king and its too easy to forget that he's also just a dude from somewhere around Hattusha, in the early bronze age.


Bloodthirster40k

Thanks, I’ve never thought of Malcador as a plot device before.


sheeberz

Isn’t Malcador an unborn, like the emperor.


Low-Abalone-5259

Unborn? I'm confused. We don't know too much about Malcador's childhood, but the Emperor had parents as far as we know. His uncle killed his father, and he gave his uncle an aneurysm.


sheeberz

Sorry I meant Perpetual. I must be confusing my lore between different sci-fi universes. My memory of what a perpetual is, and how they came about is a bit fuzzy, but I thought Malcador the sigilitte, was a perpetual, like the emperor, and John and erda, and others. I just don’t understand them that much. First time i encountered them being called perpetuals was the battle for terra books that have been coming out the past couple of years.


Low-Abalone-5259

Oh, yes. Malcador is a perpetual, born somewhere around 23,300 give or take a couple decades. As far as how they came about, it appears to be just random chance. Many of them have other gifts, like strong psychic affinity. Both Erda and Malcador were incredibly powerful and talented psykers, the likes of which are not naturally seen again. However, as Erda says to John, the Emperor is on a completely different level above them.


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Moist_Substance_4964

In "birth of the imperium", both Malc and Valdor were surprised, when Emps was calling the primarchs his sons, BUT it was also mentioned that his humanity was diminishing over time. I do think he loved some of them to an extent, like he was straight up playing games with a couple of them when they first met. Russ (lost to Russ in a food eating contest), before knocking him out with a punch, went drake hunting with Vulcan, had a wwe match with Manus. The biggest evidence for me is, in "The end and the death vol 3" that the Emp actually removed most of his compassion/humanity from his soul so he doesnt falter in his fight with Horus, and despite that seemed to be a little mad when he saw Sang's hanging corpse and told Horus he forgives him. There is also another story where Konrad makes a corpse puppet, in the form of the Emperor and the puppet starts talking back and also forgives him (that could be konrad's imagination but also could be the Emp)


DaedricWorldEater

I think he was just another tool


Low-Abalone-5259

Out of everyone ever connected to the Emperor, only Malcador and Oll couldn't be simply tools. Your opinion is yours, of course, my guy, but I think that's a bad take.


RoyLuciifer

Not to spoil but Malcador's death scene will reset your assumption


Low-Abalone-5259

Sad af. Truly a hero.


Geostomp

Nope. Malchador truly was the Emperor's right hand man and one true confidant. For all his manipulative nature and distance from humanity, Big E wanted at least one person around who could be friend to understand him. In fact, it was Malchador who pushed him into leaving his place in the shadows of human history and taking the stage as "the Emperor of Mankind" to begin with.


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40kLore-ModTeam

Rule 1: Be respectful. Hate speech, trolling, and aggressive behavior will not be tolerated, and may result in a ban.


Sbarty

Uhh they were friends?  They’ve known eachother for millennia. Before Malcador was known as The Sigillite. 


Bloodthirster40k

Yes, but he also serves under the Emperor, so you would expect that he would refer to him as lord just like anyone else. Friend really highlights how different their relationship was compared to anyone else in the imperium.


Too-Tired-Editor

It's a rare hierarchy where the guy who's worked as your right hand for even a decade can't treat you with familiarity.


Bloodthirster40k

I disagree. Whether it is organized crime, a monarchy or even a dictatorship I don’t think anyone even an advisor would for fear of retribution. Because usually leader in these situations wants to retain fear and intimidation amongst their ranks to sustain their power.


mrgoobster

That's cultural. In the West (HH is written by Brits), it's very normal to address your boss by his first name and go out for drinks, etc.


Bloodthirster40k

Ah, I see


ARealHumanBeans

Do you have experience in organized crime, a monarchy or a dictatorship?


Bloodthirster40k

No, but I’ve listened to a bunch of historians and people involved with some of those organizations. The Mafia for instance was controlled by fear and while you may laugh with the boss if he is making a joke you certainly wouldn’t make a joke back at him because if he takes it the wrong way you could be hurt or even killed.


Too-Tired-Editor

I think, if I may say so gently, that the autobiographies of many former organised criminals will prove you incorrect on this. Same with royalty, actually. We know Quuen Elizabeth was Lillibet to her friends.


HeliocentricOrbit

Autocrats too. Stalin had regular movie nights with members of the inner party to watch stuff like American cowboy films. 


misterbung

Not at all. The best leaders lead from the front and are in it with you. It's not a coincidence shit went south when Big E left everyone to carry on the Crusade, while he went back to Terra to do.... *stuff*


FranklySinatra

The Emperor is functionally a God even if he denies it by 30k. Malcador is the one person in the Universe who can look at that... Entity.... And It looks back and sees a friend, not a tool. An equal (or near equal) to save the galaxy with. It's The Emperor at his most human, because what's more human than you having a best buddy who constantly gives you shit to take on the cosmos with?


Sablesweetheart

I think most people forget or don't know how old Malcador is. It's minimally thousands of years though. Perhaps in those years, there were times where the Emperor could be as close to human as he ever could be. And Malcador, aged and wise, could seperate the man, from the Emperor. We also know that the Emperor worked to purge his emotions, his humanity even, to do what he thought he had to. Malcador displaying friendship could have been a warning that he was straying from the path he had decided on.


CaptainXakari

At the time of the book Malcador: First Lord of the Imperium, he states he is 6718 years 241 days 11 hours 8 minutes 56 seconds old. He’s been alongside the Emperor much of that and compared to the Emperor, a child.


Available_Dinner_388

In 30k Malcador was like 4500 years old. Just found that out today wtf


Low-Abalone-5259

Over 6700 guy. Malcador himself confirms his age, and during 'Master of Mankind' Jenetia Krole says he admits publicly to being over 6,000 years old.


Available_Dinner_388

Ah ok. I read that book but like 8 books ago lol


Kirris

I always thought malc was on par with the emperor in age, like born 3000 AD or something. Given the time frame of the series, it's astonishing that he was born in a time so far removed from where we are right now


Comprehensive_Bid229

_You son of a bitch....I'm in_


Bloodthirster40k

Thanks, that was somewhat where I was going, it’s interesting that he is the only person to ever see The Emperor I guess as a man and could view him as such while still serving his under him


jabbrwock1

Ollianus too. He knew the emperor back when E was mostly still a man.


Bloodthirster40k

Yeah but right before his death didn’t he begin to view the Emepror as something greater?


jabbrwock1

To be fair, E was something greater then but Ollianus tried (successfully) to reason with him as if he was another human.


Low-Abalone-5259

The Sister's of Silence see him physically as just a man, but they still project an aura of awe on to him. He gives them purpose, and they love him for it


Foostini

It's to signify that they're friends, redditor.


dreaderking

"Friends"? What a weird concept. Probably another trick by Chaos like "touching grass" or "having a love life".


Slyspy006

This is a 40k sub. In this community those last two are only experienced by the oddballs and mavericks!


Bloodthirster40k

A lot of people serve under the Emperor and have been by his side for a long time. Few of them see past the aura and majesty to see a man and even fewer would refer to him in such a common term. Even monarchs in real life had friends but I don’t think those friends would simply call them that if they are under their rule.


GunsOfPurgatory

40K fans discovering what friends are


austin123523457676

Because they were genuine friends arguably the only real friend the emperor had in a very long time


GoodFaithConverser

It’s because the curtains were fucking blue.


Geostomp

That he's the only real human relationship that the Emperor still has. Out of everyone alive, only he shares a connection with Big E as a man rather than the golden demigod everyone else sees him as.


Bloodthirster40k

Thanks


No_Reward_3486

When two people are close to each other they tend to think of the other as a friend. He wasn't an equal to the Emperor. Malcador could not handle the throne, he knew, the Emperor knew, Vulkan and Sanguinius knew, while even mortally wounded the Emperor can handle that strain for ten thousand years. They didn't have some extremely close relationship that no one else could replicate, Malcador viewed the Emperor as a friend, while also viewing him as the only hope for humanity. The friendship almost certainly played a part in that, but I don't think he would need to be the Emperor's friend to think that.


Bloodthirster40k

That’s an interesting perspective.


AugustNorge

Many commenters do not understand literary analysis. "The curtains were just blue!! Get over it!!"


sowwyynotsowwyy

except this is an example where it's literally the opposite, it doesn't take literary analysis to understand why someone calls someone else a friend


Bloodthirster40k

Many of them moved this discussion into weird places as well.


elucifuge

Warhammer fans discover mystical concept of positive platonic interpersonal relationships colloquially known as "friends".


Disastrous-Angle-415

They were “roommates “


meatguyf

They were just practicing for a play!


DaedricWorldEater

I’ve felt Malcador was gay for a while


GreedyLibrary

When you reach his age, I assume you have expanded your pool quite wide.


Available_Dinner_388

Chaos approves of this message


Dirka-Dirka

My working theory right now is that the emperor got with that farseer from the eldar the guy one real fancy. This was a fling. And then he married mcador.


Alpharius__667

Malcador didn’t put up with the Emperors bullshit to not be a close friend


Bloodthirster40k

And he is the only one who did that without betraying him I suppose.


Antilogic81

It's likely the only thing we can trust from Malcador. That and his fondness for Russ.  Those two got see a different side of him that was more genuine. But not the same genuine side I reckon. He was always different to different people and same can be said here too. Everything else he says has triple meanings that were cryptic at best and usually a misdirection to move the progress needle forward some more. 


Low-Abalone-5259

Malcador's chosen seemed to have an incredibly deep relationship with him. So much so that when he sent his final instructions to them and said goodbye that they all ran to the Throne Room, wept, and were bereft. He seemed much like a father figure to them.


Bloodthirster40k

I’ve often thought he was a bigger loss to the imperium than even the Emperor himself.


Bloodthirster40k

Thanks, I guess I’ve never viewed him in that light.


mecha_shatner

Perpetuals before hoes dude


Bloodthirster40k

Indeed


DevilGuy

They were friends. As Freud said, sometimes a cigar is... just a cigar. 


Bloodthirster40k

It’s different though, the Primarchs call him father yet he isn’t their father nor really tries to be. But him and Malcador can sit around playing Space Primarch chess. And he is the only one like that.


DirectlyDisturbed

> the Primarchs call him father yet he isn’t their father I mean...he is though. Like yeah, he's not "their father" in that their creation didn't result from the Emperor having sex and he didn't raise them...but it's still *his* genetic material that helped create them. Plus it was *his* project that created them. He is absolutely the father of the Primarchs


DevilGuy

I don't think you understood my quote. Sigmund Freud, the father of modern psychology was a proponent of dream interpretation as a method of identifying subconscious neurosis, however he was careful to stress that not everything in a dream is a symbol for something or has some subtext. The implication here is that a Cigar isn't some sort of phallic symbol, sometimes it just is what it is. You're asking what the meaning symbolism is when there is no deeper meaning or symbolism. They were friends, that's it. Period. Full Stop. Nothing else.


Bloodthirster40k

My question wasn’t about them being friends. It was why Malcador refers to him as such above any other term. I don’t see a friend and say “hello friend!” I would use their name or a nick name given to them. He could use “My Liege, My Lord, Brother, My King, My Companion, My Emperor” so many ways he could refer to The Emperor. And yet he and he alone calls him “My Friend” which certainly highlights how different his relationship and views are with the emperor compared to anyone else. He views him as an equal instead of revering him as more than which everyone else does.


marehgul

Look, they were really friends. Emperor loved him. Don't dig for symbolism where is none. It's just that, and Malcador realising what powerful and ummeasurable being Emperor is doesn't conflict with that. Still a dearest friend.


milddemonstrator

AwaxC a


Apokolypse09

Malcador was literally his only actual friend left. Every other perpetual abandoned him but he still loved them enough to not go after them.


rr1pp3rr

It's cus this one time, Jimmy Space and Malc were cruisin for chics at this bar, when Mal sees this 9.5 hottie blazin. He was moving in for the kill, but her 1.2 friend was cockblockin him HARD. Emps comes in and falls on that grenade for Malc and he SEALS THE DEAL BABY. Ever since then, Emps was his best friend.


William_Thalis

It mostly means that unlike basically every other person in the Human Race, Malcador saw the Emperor as a person. A deeply powerful, nigh godlike being, but still a person. Someone with dreams and ambitions but also flaws and shortcomings. Malcador was also maybe one of three people who actually knew the whole plan. So it speaks to their trust and to their friendship.


Bloodthirster40k

I wonder if that’s why they became close or if they became close so he began to see through guise. It’s just interesting he would still follow someone whom he views as an equal even when he can see their flaws. Speaks to his faith in the Webway plan.


TacoCommand

Malcador (if I'm remembering correctly) is the last warlord the Emperor conquers during his initial unification of Terra way back in the early 20k centuries. They've literally spent a thousand years (if not more) as Jeeves and Wooster (if Wooster had the ability to *bend reality*). So yes, they're friends. Malcador is probably the oldest and best friend the Emperor has and the one person who's closest to being his "peer".


Bloodthirster40k

But imagine someone killing your whole order and you serve under him for thousands of years after that. It seems you would bide your time waiting to exact your vengeance. Not develop affection for the mother fucker.


bolobre4th

They were the best of friends, also probably the only real friend either of them ever had.


Bloodthirster40k

You don’t think Malcador got along with the other Sigilites?


Trackpoint

It means they were roommates!


5059

Oh my god they were roommates


apeel09

They were literally friends - no one else on Terra had stood by the Emperor simply out of friendship and in agreement for his grand project for humanity. All the other Perpetuals turned against him. Sometimes things really are that simple.


Bloodthirster40k

Sure. I have friends but I’ve never just called them “friend”


Halcyon-Ember

It's because they were roommates


jw071

They were the two top psykers on the planet, immune to death by conventional means and therefore thousands of years old - very few people could even think on their level, and even if they did they’d die in a century or so anyway… Just considering *what* they were it’s only natural they’d either be friends or absolutely hate each other.


Bloodthirster40k

I suppose that’s true. There is only room for one super psyker


Important-Sleep-1839

I haven't read the Epic of Gilgamesh but, my sense is that their relationship is similar given the Gilgamesh nature of The Emperor.


Bloodthirster40k

Thanks im not familiar with it myself.


Taira_no_Masakado

He was the Emperor's last and truest ***friend*** in every meaning of the word.


EmbassyMiniPainting

I love how in a universe of infinite possibilities and endlessly complex interwoven lore that’s generally so dark, the answer here is quite simply, friendship. Kind of awesome imo.


Low-Abalone-5259

I laughed out loud, imagining the 6700 year old space wizard who can hide a moon in space hell, conjure nuclear fire, and astrally project himself across an entire planet, just lecturing to young Leman Russ about 'the power of friendship, my boy' while making psychic rainbows with his flaming eagle staff. Take my upvote


Bloodthirster40k

Especially when you are referring to a guy who is a genocidal tyrant and the other is a Disney villain who creates an organization of assassins.


AeonRues

It’s because he’s a Quaker. You can tell because of the non-violence.


Lolseabass

If emperor why fren shaped?


Low-Transportation95

That they were friends?


Samas34

Well apparently Malcador was once such a cruel and genocidal maniac many of his crimes are still in memory by the time the heresy rolled around despite attempts to bury them, his first 'death' wasn't even by a traitor astartes hands if I remember right, but a librarian who ended up discovering who he really was and was still so disgusted by him he smoked him on the spot there and then! The fact the emperor seems to consider this guy an actual personal friend in itself says a lot about his mindset in 30k.


Bloodthirster40k

Thanks. I guess they were more alike than not


Spare-Cantaloupe-876

Probably the only friend each other have. There are moments where they play regicide together and probably chilled quite a few times.


Mamaclover

So you know, when you have two old men, who live together and have no woman in their life at the moment, and like antiques and have projects together, and talk about their annoying kids/grandkids they had with their ex, who generally have a gaudy sense of decoration, polite society usually call them "Good old friends". So more perceptive people would call them "gay as fuck".


Hairy_Skill_9768

Guys they might be friends, know a lot about each other and developed care for one another, I know it's a lot to take in, easy does it


Bloodthirster40k

The Emperor fought side by side with a lot of people though and no one else refers to him as such.


Hairy_Skill_9768

No him


airmangoogl3

They were friends…


hachiman

Less triggering to the Warhammer community than calling Him;" My Husband" i suppose.


TikkiEXX77

People in here having to explain to op what a friend is is downright hilarious.


Valor816

The meaning is friendship.


No_Detective_806

There just legitimately friends


Too-Tired-Editor

No, buy you might call him Reggie rather than Mr Kray, sir.


The-Paladin7

Family, friends and a place to call home are some of the greatest gifts in life in this fallen and corrupted world. We don’t know much about the emperor’s parents or uncle. We don’t know if the emperor had any brothers and sisters possibly long since gone. We do know Big E was a polygamist and had many children with many women over the millennia before Horus turned him into a living corpse enduring the slow death of the golden throne like Jesus enduring the sins of humanity, His creation, on the cruel cross of iron-fisted Roman rule and domination of Roman law and order. There could be more perpetuals created and added to the lore than the ones mentioned so far in the general lore. The emperor’s birth children were called the Sensai sp? And they were powerful psykers and possibly perpetuals and they are lost in the early lore but definitely in the early editions of 40K. Only those who live thousands of years can be confirmed as perpetuals who have bodies with the gift of massive and instant cellular regeneration kind of like the Incredible Hulk. I don’t know why the mechanicus don’t just give Big E some of the best and high tech parts of Mars to replace his right arm and eye and sustain him like Darth Vader in Star Wars. If the Star Wars universe tech could do do it for big DV than the tech of the Warhammer Universe can do the same for Big E. The Martian looking emperor might have to do some heavy breathing around some of the virgin sexually suppressed and repressed sisters of silence and sisters of battle, but he might actually get a big E again, and end the pattern of ED and low T. Big E’s mega erection around some of his devoted sister virgin babes that need to feel his special kind of love and have his massive you know what stretching out their you know what’s like nothing ever did before with an explosion of semen gene seed that could be compared to a tall glass of milk in quantity! I’m sure the martians can hook BIG E(rection) up with the needed equipment and he will then be known by the secret sororities as BIG RED baby with the best Warhammer of all time as they orgasmically scream “Hammer meee BiG E! Rip me apart BIG RED! Fill me till I can’t take no more!” As they break their vows of sisterly silence in total orgasmic pleasure!”


gentleauxiliatrix

Big E is too homophobic to call him his lover


jmeHusqvarna

Ill bite on this.......what makes you remotely think he was homophobic?


gentleauxiliatrix

He called me a f*g at a men’s only popper party in Vegas 2 years ago for being a limp-wristed fem twink


gentleauxiliatrix

They boo me because I’m right


Huarndeek

Big E wasn't homophobic, his penis was just too big for any butthole to explore, so he became a voluntary celibate to spare mankind the pain. He did it for us. What a dude, what a guy.


Cardamom_roses

The god emperor of mankind was a total bottom, what are you talking about


Huarndeek

I don't know. Have you seen the size of him on the cover of The End and the Death: Volume I ?


jackalaxe

He's not too homophobic to ask for some more sigil restraints tho uwu


DaedricWorldEater

I think the emperor was in malcador’s head.