Edit: Hellgun misinformation removed from transmission.
There are several reasons I often prefer hellguns to bolters! Come loyal citizen and prospective Inquisitorial Cell Candidates, lend me your ears and augmetic screens:
Sometimes, you just want the enemy to realize that their armour is *in danger* at all times.
When you remember that the Hellgun is a high penetration weapon, meaning that you are punching through Astartes Grade Power armour *every throne-damned hit*.
Also, it attracts far less attention than a bolter, and is far more economic in cost, magazine size, ammo supply & resupply (ie, you can always plug the thing into a power source and recharge, where bolter rounds have to be sourced, bought & carried).
Equip a targeter, an under barrel grenade launcher & a backpack ammo supply means that you can hold the trigger on auto fire for a solid 1-2 minutes before having to reload, and ensuring that many of those shots.are going to invalidate the warranty on a lot of armour.
When you take the las talents, you are usually hitting on equal damage per hit to the bolter, simply because armour almost never applies to your shots, or at least more actual damage actually penetrates heavy armour.
You want to see something alarming for a character who has to purchase or source ammo? Look at how much money it costs to fire 60 bolt rounds vs how much it costs to fire 60 Hellgun charges. You can buy a lot of grenades with the savings, which in turn can be turned onto Elite combat enemies, anti vehicle tasks, area denial, and terrain modification with greater frequency.
That's why the Munitorum has never seen fit to commonly issue guardsmen bolters. Not worth the logistics cost, nor is the common bolter as reliable as even the *common lasgun*... what, you thought that every bolter is built on the scale of reliability as Astartes gear?! Welcome to the Imperial Guard, kid, embrace the Las-weaponry.
such a low cost doesn't matter if your GW respects the salary value of your character. My players regularly have tens of thousands after a long mission. Even with deducting costs for transportation it wouldn't be an issue for them.
Enc can be an issue but if you're playing on every bullet count the cheaper amo is a life saver for survival missions.
And ultimately one more Enc isn't something that would cause issues for most builds.
investigation mission takes months of in game time to complete from a realistic standpoint, also salvaging and selling equipment.
Lucky investment endeavor.
Surely this is a matter of long term cost. And advanced warning I have yet to have a first cuppa kick in so dodgy maths may occur (Emperor please be nice and that it's actually right!).
When you buy a weapon it comes with two free magazines of its standard ammunition for the gun. The HSLP is not the standard ammunition for the lasgun, it is custom ammunition for a lasgun so you will need to buy them and keep buying them to match the damage output. The HSL surely gets its own power packs but are not considered the custom ammunition. This is where it gets you...
For lets say 16 mag shots worth (just picking a number of uses out the air) the cost of an HSL and a replacement packs comes to 1500 solars.
* Gun - 1000 with two free magazine worth
* Replacement pack 1 - 250
* Replacement pack 2 - 250
For a boosted lasgun, since you're not getting the ammunition packs free, you need to buy four packs of custom ammunition. You'd be paying 2400 solars all in.
* Gun - 600
* HSLP 1 - 450
* HSLP 2 - 450
* HSLP 3 - 450
* HSLP 4 - 450
If your patron is a Meticulous Archivist, Miserly or in any way picky with how their agents spend their money appropriately, you're overspending to achieve the same damage output.
Now, it gets even more complicated when we remember that as per the box text on p129, a standard las weapon magazine can be recharged without a test by effectively plugging it into the mains or setting it on fire. Those HSL packs, you may be able to make do with only those two complementary packs so for those 16 shots that's only 1000 solars paid if you get chance to leave them on overnight next to your vox device...
Since the HSLP is arguably not the standard las weapon magazine and it counts as custom ammunition, there is a debate about whether that is rechargeable using the same mechanics. If it is then fine, but we've still got to pay for two packs which does still cost more than the 1000 solars.
Thanks to Burst, you'd probably only need two packs, and I haven't seen anything that says you get free ammo with a purchase of a ranged weapon.
You start the game with two mags for every gun you own.
The recharge bit is debatable, but I'd rule they are still las packs, so can be recharged.
>and I haven't seen anything that says you get free ammo with a purchase of a ranged weapon.
*When you buy a weapon it comes with two magazines of standard ammunition.*
*\~IM Core, p132*
So one in the gun and one spare. And we're buying more packs in this example because on that day you have a lot of heresy to purge!
The tricky bit is because it's custom ammunition. Custom ammunition probably should be specialist, harder to obtain because you only need them every once in a while for when you need to take on something different to usual.
If however you could freely resupply a custom bit of ammunition for just plugging it in, that's a Patron level bonus to be able to keep getting even some of it for free (Manufactorum Master for example). So I would argue that it is consumed and cannot be resupplied but it is a bit...eh. But that's up to personal GM choice.
I have yet to play IM yet, but in all other aspects of the lore, including the FFG games, Hot-shot Laspacks allowed you to make expend all ammo for that increased damage output. Is there anything like that in the entry? It seems like an oversight.
You lose 4, standard Lasgun can do 8 bursts.
I fully expected them do damage the weapon, since Hot-Shot packs in lore are known to melt barrels, but there's really no downside other than losing the Reliable trait, which the Hot-Shot Lasgun lacks anyway.
Yes. The Hot-Shot las packs make you Lasgun the same as a Hot-Shot Lasgun.
But cheaper, easier to aquire and lighter.
And the Lasgun has a magazine of 8, because it's Imperium Maledictum, as per the flair. The Hot-Shot Lasgun has a magazine of 4.
As per the OP.
It's not just for being armed by a patron; not every place will offer you access to everything. Sometimes you'll get no-frills basic ammo reloads for your weapons only. The cache you're raiding could have only weapons you told the GM are "pointless", and there's no shops or alternatives to find unless you start scavenging from cultists. Etc.
Aye. You have played roleplaying games before, right?
You can possibly imagine a few scenarios where you don't perpetually and unquestioningly have access to all of your perks and benefits, right?
Without hitting the limits of your imagination, even. You might even be familiar with Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, and not need me to expound further on missions where it's somewhat difficult for the GM to slow the pace down to suit what you're saying. For instance.
Edit: Hellgun misinformation removed from transmission. There are several reasons I often prefer hellguns to bolters! Come loyal citizen and prospective Inquisitorial Cell Candidates, lend me your ears and augmetic screens: Sometimes, you just want the enemy to realize that their armour is *in danger* at all times. When you remember that the Hellgun is a high penetration weapon, meaning that you are punching through Astartes Grade Power armour *every throne-damned hit*. Also, it attracts far less attention than a bolter, and is far more economic in cost, magazine size, ammo supply & resupply (ie, you can always plug the thing into a power source and recharge, where bolter rounds have to be sourced, bought & carried). Equip a targeter, an under barrel grenade launcher & a backpack ammo supply means that you can hold the trigger on auto fire for a solid 1-2 minutes before having to reload, and ensuring that many of those shots.are going to invalidate the warranty on a lot of armour. When you take the las talents, you are usually hitting on equal damage per hit to the bolter, simply because armour almost never applies to your shots, or at least more actual damage actually penetrates heavy armour. You want to see something alarming for a character who has to purchase or source ammo? Look at how much money it costs to fire 60 bolt rounds vs how much it costs to fire 60 Hellgun charges. You can buy a lot of grenades with the savings, which in turn can be turned onto Elite combat enemies, anti vehicle tasks, area denial, and terrain modification with greater frequency. That's why the Munitorum has never seen fit to commonly issue guardsmen bolters. Not worth the logistics cost, nor is the common bolter as reliable as even the *common lasgun*... what, you thought that every bolter is built on the scale of reliability as Astartes gear?! Welcome to the Imperial Guard, kid, embrace the Las-weaponry.
[удалено]
You right, been a minute. My old medic just ran his lasgun on max charge until he picked up a hellgun Edit finished.
Wrong game, my guy, but I like the enthusiasm!
Lol, so it is. Thanks for hearing me out, looking forward to checking out IM for myself!
well not everything is about getting the best weapons, sometimes you just want to RP.
Sure, but most characters are going to be confined by cost and availability. It's not what you want, but what you can get.
another reason I just found is amo cost lasgun amo is 150, hot-shot laspack is *3 meaning 450 hot shot lasgun amo cost is 250.
Whoops. You are correct. Still cheaper in cost and Enc, though.
such a low cost doesn't matter if your GW respects the salary value of your character. My players regularly have tens of thousands after a long mission. Even with deducting costs for transportation it wouldn't be an issue for them. Enc can be an issue but if you're playing on every bullet count the cheaper amo is a life saver for survival missions. And ultimately one more Enc isn't something that would cause issues for most builds.
How in hell are you getting all that money? We get 700 a week, minus food expenses, or board is covered.
investigation mission takes months of in game time to complete from a realistic standpoint, also salvaging and selling equipment. Lucky investment endeavor.
Surely this is a matter of long term cost. And advanced warning I have yet to have a first cuppa kick in so dodgy maths may occur (Emperor please be nice and that it's actually right!). When you buy a weapon it comes with two free magazines of its standard ammunition for the gun. The HSLP is not the standard ammunition for the lasgun, it is custom ammunition for a lasgun so you will need to buy them and keep buying them to match the damage output. The HSL surely gets its own power packs but are not considered the custom ammunition. This is where it gets you... For lets say 16 mag shots worth (just picking a number of uses out the air) the cost of an HSL and a replacement packs comes to 1500 solars. * Gun - 1000 with two free magazine worth * Replacement pack 1 - 250 * Replacement pack 2 - 250 For a boosted lasgun, since you're not getting the ammunition packs free, you need to buy four packs of custom ammunition. You'd be paying 2400 solars all in. * Gun - 600 * HSLP 1 - 450 * HSLP 2 - 450 * HSLP 3 - 450 * HSLP 4 - 450 If your patron is a Meticulous Archivist, Miserly or in any way picky with how their agents spend their money appropriately, you're overspending to achieve the same damage output. Now, it gets even more complicated when we remember that as per the box text on p129, a standard las weapon magazine can be recharged without a test by effectively plugging it into the mains or setting it on fire. Those HSL packs, you may be able to make do with only those two complementary packs so for those 16 shots that's only 1000 solars paid if you get chance to leave them on overnight next to your vox device... Since the HSLP is arguably not the standard las weapon magazine and it counts as custom ammunition, there is a debate about whether that is rechargeable using the same mechanics. If it is then fine, but we've still got to pay for two packs which does still cost more than the 1000 solars.
Thanks to Burst, you'd probably only need two packs, and I haven't seen anything that says you get free ammo with a purchase of a ranged weapon. You start the game with two mags for every gun you own. The recharge bit is debatable, but I'd rule they are still las packs, so can be recharged.
>and I haven't seen anything that says you get free ammo with a purchase of a ranged weapon. *When you buy a weapon it comes with two magazines of standard ammunition.* *\~IM Core, p132* So one in the gun and one spare. And we're buying more packs in this example because on that day you have a lot of heresy to purge! The tricky bit is because it's custom ammunition. Custom ammunition probably should be specialist, harder to obtain because you only need them every once in a while for when you need to take on something different to usual. If however you could freely resupply a custom bit of ammunition for just plugging it in, that's a Patron level bonus to be able to keep getting even some of it for free (Manufactorum Master for example). So I would argue that it is consumed and cannot be resupplied but it is a bit...eh. But that's up to personal GM choice.
Good catch on the page number. I missed that. As for the rest, that's a convo wthe GM, agreed.
I have yet to play IM yet, but in all other aspects of the lore, including the FFG games, Hot-shot Laspacks allowed you to make expend all ammo for that increased damage output. Is there anything like that in the entry? It seems like an oversight.
So reading the book now, and yeah the only difference then is you lose 1 round of burst fire....they fucked up haha
You lose 4, standard Lasgun can do 8 bursts. I fully expected them do damage the weapon, since Hot-Shot packs in lore are known to melt barrels, but there's really no downside other than losing the Reliable trait, which the Hot-Shot Lasgun lacks anyway.
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Yes. The Hot-Shot las packs make you Lasgun the same as a Hot-Shot Lasgun. But cheaper, easier to aquire and lighter. And the Lasgun has a magazine of 8, because it's Imperium Maledictum, as per the flair. The Hot-Shot Lasgun has a magazine of 4. As per the OP.
>why bother? What makes you think you'll always be choosing?
This is for the times you are. If you're Patron is arming you, that's obviously different.
It's not just for being armed by a patron; not every place will offer you access to everything. Sometimes you'll get no-frills basic ammo reloads for your weapons only. The cache you're raiding could have only weapons you told the GM are "pointless", and there's no shops or alternatives to find unless you start scavenging from cultists. Etc.
I really don't think we're having the same conversation.
Could be. Not for lack of relevance. Seems you're getting shops that buy everything you want to sell, too.
You get paid weekly, you have influence with factions. You have Endeavors. You have played IM, right?
Aye. You have played roleplaying games before, right? You can possibly imagine a few scenarios where you don't perpetually and unquestioningly have access to all of your perks and benefits, right? Without hitting the limits of your imagination, even. You might even be familiar with Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, and not need me to expound further on missions where it's somewhat difficult for the GM to slow the pace down to suit what you're saying. For instance.
For this particular thought exercise, imagine I do. Which is the entire point.