This baby will be used as a pawn in his never ending psycho drama. If they do not and cannot raise their baby, the best solution is adoption. Otherwise, the father will make your life a living hell.
NTA
>This baby will be used as a pawn in his never ending psycho drama.
I couldn't figure out a polite way of saying this, but yes. That is my suspicion if I take in their baby. Sperm-doner implied it would be temporary while earlier my daughter said it would be permanent. I think Sperm-doner will refuse to sign over paperwork when the time comes or try to leverage it in some way.
"You're a terrible parent. Here's another child for you to screw up."
SD and daughter are not living in the world everyone else is in. IDK how you get help for a legal adult but I suggest reaching out to groups for families of children in controlling relationships and even families of cult members could help you either find ways to get to her or find way to come to terms with your situation
I was unsure of the cult angle at first. But its seemed extremely odd for a trams person to have such a strong opinion on "sin". I can think of one cult that might match that though. Twin flames.
Just read up on them and you could well be on to something here.
Regardless it’s clear that OPs daughter has gotten themselves into an extremely controlling, and I don’t think it’s a leap to think abusive, relationship.
I feel for OP so much because I’m not sure there is anything they can do. Taking in the baby is absolutely not an option though. As difficult as it will be to watch this sh1t show play out, taking in the baby will be a form of enabling whatever the fk is actually going on here.
There is no good answer unfortunately.
But this isn’t just affecting the non binary person. They are making a choice to bring a child into the world with no intentions of ensuring the baby’s safety or stability.
What they did is irresponsable, but it’s not the unborn child’s fault they’ll be born to unfit parents.
It’s not just a choice. It’s bringing life into the world. This isn’t just a mistake that you can put a bandaid over and hope it goes away,
That child they made SHOULDN’T be punished for the parents selfishness. Nor should OP be expected to raise the baby.
I hope this child finds a loving family, and that OP doesn’t get guilt tripped into raising their grandchild. It’s not fair and at the end of the day, everyone loses.
I agree with everything you said here! Also, my OCD soul is crying with relief and gratitude for you, the kind soul who managed to finally interject the proper spelling of “donor” into the thread.
Thank you 🙏🏻
I'm also imagining a scenario where I take the baby in as my own, I would get attached and protective of the kid just in time for sperm donor to decide that they are now "ready" to be the parents and take the kid away and use it as blackmail or cut you off completely, I wouldn't want to give the kid up to go live in an unstable environment with terrible parents. At that point you either straight up lose or have a long legal battle......its just really a shit situation no matter what you do.
Ideal resolution would be the daughter gets her shit together, and loses Sperm Donor and decides to be an actual mom with the help of the grandma(OP) giving her guidance and resources but I don't have a lot of hope for that. Hopefully that kid can find a loving and stable home
If I were in OPs position the only way I'd be taking in the child is if it were with a legal adoption with birth parental rights severed. Normally I'm all for keeping a child's family intact and providing resources, but it doesn't sound like sperm donor would ever be open to co-parenting, open communication, or emotionally regulation.
Oh no, if op does take the baby it would have to be a full on legal event. Either he sign rights or op becomes a foster mom and then let the system place the baby with her. Then let the social workers decide if they are fit. They’ll change their tune really quick ..
Money. The answer will always be money. You'll end up with 3 adult dependents instead of one. Wash your hands of all of them. Maybe someday your daughter will come back to you, hopefully without permanent damage, but you also can't control that. I'm so sorry you're going through this.
Stick to your guns, because adoption is the only healthy option here. Do not agree to raise this child because that is not what is in the best interest of anyone involved. Sperm donor is also not going to sign the way his rights, how else can he manipulate you if he has no legal rights? And even if they sign their rights away, they will both be in this child’s life, and they will not be good influences.
I know you’re worried you drove your daughter away, because she blocked you, but that’s not true at all. I hate to say it, but *she needs you more than you need her and they will both be back.* You need to be patient.
So when your daughter comes back, and I’m saying *when*, keep insisting on adoption and refusing to raise the baby, even if she brings a baby with her. Your daughter is mentally and emotionally unstable, unemployed, and in a possibly abusive relationship. This baby will turn out better with a healthy family.
> I hate to say it, but she needs you more than you need her and they will both be back.
Daughter likely to u turn one day but hopefully **without** the Sperm-donor.
Just keep letting your child know they always have a space with you, just them, if things get bad.
You are correct that sperm donor is trying to isolate your child. They are easier to control that way.
I know it's hard to watch your baby be in an abusive relationship, but there really isn't anything you can do but help if and when she asks.
I'm thinking she might want to call child protective services for the unborn baby. Is the daughter seeing the doctor/midwife? Getting all her check ups? Do they need social support? Etc.
>I think Sperm-doner will refuse to sign over paperwork when the time comes or try to leverage it in some way.
So if you do decide to raise this child, they MUST sign away any claim. I'm so sorry. That's a lot!
I agree. They must sign the baby over to you. Then I would go after them for child support. In no way agree to a situation where you're doing all the work but they have legal rights for the baby.
For what it’s worth, that was me being polite. lol I was yelling a totally different string of words.
I can’t imagine the pain you’re feeling having to watch this unfold. He is the enemy and thinks he’s the victim.
OP, sadly I think you your sense is spot on. I urge you to get some legal advice so you have a better understanding of laws in your state. You may just want to know down the road. Are there “safe haven” laws? If SD gives up custody, what is process & how easy is it to get back. If CPS takes baby, can you still see baby? Having a newborn is hard for 2 well adjusted adults, I can’t imagine how long these two will fare before something happens.
OP please speak with a lawyer, and then a cult deprogrammer.
I think you know your child is in an extremely abusive and controlling relationship. I reckon the pregnancy is a gambit to control *you* too.
Get REAL professional help that speaks to the situation as it really is. This os your best chance of success.
He will never sign away parental rights until a judge tells him he will go to jail for back child support. But daughter will keep this out of the court. They will leave the baby with you, take the baby back, leave the baby with you, withhold the baby from you.
He’s doing this with your kid already. You can’t see her. You threw him out of your house? He will blow your house tf up.
That’s Sperm-donor.
“Currently seeking a cult to lead.”
He’s twisted little effer.
He got her pregnant.
And now she will do what he says.
I hate to say it but you need to really think about things. If you don't go no contact, you're going to end up in the middle of a bunch of bs drama.
I'm so sorry this is all happening and i really feel awful for the baby being born into this shit show.
It's so difficult, but I keep coming back to that as the only option too. Let the daughter know the door is open for reconciliation in the future, but OP cannot be a part of this current situation.
Same. I keep coming back to the fact that irregardless of shitbag sperm donor, OP’s daughter has a laundry list of issues herself and sounds like she’s pretty mentally ill and definitely delusionally entitled. There’s no way this ends in any other way besides super low contact at the most, if OP doesn’t want to raise their kid and be in the middle of insane drama all the time.
I figure CPS will be involved and the child will end up being taken away anyway.
I honestly believe it's time to inform protective services. These individuals sound very unstable and unable to provide a child with a loving environment and the basic necessities of life. Any good parent, regardless of gender, sexuality, how they identify in any way , must provide and care for their child. They are absolutely not going to be able to do this. The child would be at risk
Be ready to help your daughter file for child support. Sperm donor wants to call the shots and tell everyone what to do but he doesn't want to raise a baby and he doesn't want to have to financially support one.
if you have the ability to observe in the future after the child is born. the child will probably be abused if this keeps going on. if you want to protect the child the best you can, if of course this will help your worries. this is a suggestment - personally i would do it tho
You need to cut off your daughter completely. I know it must be hard but the way you are being treated, I don't know how you can even be around them. I have three of my own and if I were treated this way I would kick them out, cut contact, and offer to either have the sole legal guardian of the child give up for adoption.
Share the post with your daughter anonymously, nothing you say will change their minds but maybe seeing a shit ton of strangers of the internet say how fucked up they are will.
The father is a massive red flag and sadly your daughter is his target/victim rn. She will have to decide to leave him and the situation when she's ready and hopefully that will be sooner rather than later.
Did you ever tell your daughter what happened in the past with this person?
Have you spoken to sperm-donor's parents? See where they stand, maybe have a united front of reason for when the reality comes crashing in? If they're decent people that is.
I'm sorry OP your daughter is absolutely being emotionally and mentally abused by this loser. I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted her to be Trans to match with him being trans....and I would bet he wants old school gender norms in their home whenever they happens...
He'll sit around while he forces your daughter to bust her a$$ as the "man and breadwinner" while he enjoys her hard work and does nothing around the house.
She is definitely blinded by infatuation...because this is a sick relationship there's no way real healthy love is involved.
If she ever gets out of his hold she's going to need intensive therapy.
I was in a controlling relationship and I won't date anymore because I was rewired in such a messed up way with my ex and it's hard to get real mental health care in my location apparently.
I wish you luck and that you get your child back sooner than later OP.
One would hope.. but there’s no guarantee baby will make it out better in foster care. Screening and picking adoptive parent ahead of time sounds like a much better bet.
For certain. If you don’t give them money, you’re cut off! If you don’t let him move in, NC! Buy them a car seat or you’re to blame if baby gets hurt!
I would certainly be concerned what will happen if daughter and the donor split up, but that’s an issue for another day. Best of luck.
NTA. So their argument is that:
1. You are a terrible parent.
2. Their morals don’t allow for a termination (which is too late anyway) but do allow for child abandonment.
3. They know how to parent better than you do (by telling you all the things you did “wrong”.
4. Take care of their child until they decide they want it back?
If you’re such a terrible parent, why would they want you to raise their child? Wouldn’t adoption be a better option? What they’re hoping for is to put their baby on layaway and come pick it up whenever they feel like it. They can’t do that with an adoption.
Logic is entirely out of whack here; the contradictions are rampant. Abortion is wrong (sounds religious/right), Gender choices are okay (not religious/left), child abandonment is okay, OP should have anticipated HRT (fortune teller?), OP should not have gotten birth control (bad fortune teller?), etc...Confusing, Sperm Donor is insane, but hey it is all justified because as a parent the OP is the lesser of two evils.
Edit: bad spelling and to add NTA
Throw premarital sex in there too. I feel awful for OP, Sperm Donor convinced OP's daughter her parent is poisoning her with birth control, but also that the baby is now their responsibility? I hope Sperm Donor's awakening is spectacularly rude.
This was my first thought, too! Not just the most female thing to do, but it permanently changes your body. Boobs, hips, stretch marks, breastfeeding, and hormones that change everything dramatically. I hope she sees different when her brain is flooded with oxytocin after birth and she decides to take care of her baby.
Most trans men get very dysphoric at the thought of pregnancy/birth or even mensturation. The thought of her being OK with all of that but not birth control is some serious mental gymnastics. Sperm donor has for sure put some weird ideas of how this whole process was going to go into her head.
Well of COURSE it would. You'd have to be doing some extreme denial of biology/mental compartmentalizing for it to not.
I think ops kid is just an asshole, mostly, who uses gender as a stick to beat people with and avoid adult responsibilities.
Everyone has an asshole, and this sperm donor POS definitely has a huge one.
I'm queer and around trans people regularly. Some are absolutely sweet and wonderful or at least normal (has reasonable boundaries, reactions, makes realistic plans), and some are vulnerable narcissists who weaponize victimhood to be able to strong arm people into giving them their way because otherwise, you're a transphobic bigot. And anyone who follows someone's mother into a kitchen to sexually harass her probably isn't going to be in the first group.
OP, your daughter probably will not come to her senses until she gets drummed out of their clique for some imagined slight (I'm betting they'll claim she's abusive) against the sperm donor. The social reinforcement of being 'oppressed' is too strong to leave until sperm donor is done with her and finds a new toy. She'll need you most then. Stay away until that happens, which a few weeks into a new baby will probably happen.
Start documenting every interaction with sperm donor! If it's legal in your jurisdiction, record every interaction however short. Get a ring camera. Keep it all, you or your daughter will need all of this later to try and terminate SD's rights. Keep any receipts or bills for pregnancy and infant care. You want to make sure to show SD didn't contribute. Talk to a lawyer to prepare what you'll need when daughter comes back.
Same here (wrt being queer and around trans people regularly; I’m also involved in local trans rights campaigns). I think you’re 100% right and I am willing to bet that SD is someone who weaponizes victimhood in order to be manipulative and abusive.
Seriously. All the “abortion is a sin” talk coming from the people totally cool with gender fluidity and premarital sex was wild! I have no problem with gender fluidity or premarital sex! But I’d also have been telling OP’s kid to get an abortion stat, if I was in her social circle. I don’t think you can have it both ways.
That was my first thought 😂 if she’s such a terrible mom, why give her a chance to do it all over again? These children live in a delusional fantasy world. Op, I’m sorry for such a gut wrenching experience here 😞
NTA. Seems to me that Sperm-Doner may be trying to isolate daughter from her family. Also saying she needs to be "fixed" -- abuse signs everywhere here. You can be there as a safe place if one day your daughter sees the light, but in the meantime please take care of yourself.
This is 100% the right thing to do. They don’t want to raise a kid. So they will not do their best. They wanna f- around, they can find out. Sperm donor doesn’t want to raise his kid, OP paid her dues as a mother. They can watch their child get thrown into the system. It is horrible to think about that, but two irresponsible people created a child and they can either raise the baby or let it go. If CPS steps in they don’t sound like they will ever get baby back the way they are behaving. I’d also be recording conversations with them to prove how unfit they are.
Agreed. If I were OP the only way I’d raise the baby is if both parents agree to terminate their parental rights and I adopt the child. Otherwise, they (and especially sperm donor) will use the child as a pawn in their manipulation tactics.
Unfortunately it doesn't work like that.
A bio parent can't just sign away parental rights, unless there's someone willing and able to adopt the child. Unless parent is in Louisiana, I believe.
Mom could go to court and give legal guardianship to a grandparent, but mom would still be the child's legal parent.
Dad will have no rights to the baby at all as an unmarried father, unless he does two things: establishes paternity, and gets visitation or custody legally established.
Terry Schiavo is the number 1 example of why every adult needs to have financial and medical POA forms and put in writing exactly what they want to happen if they can't speak for themselves.
yeah it honestly kind of sounds like she’s being pressured into the whole nb thing? that’s if what op is saying is correct, she still wants to be referred to with she/her pronouns, she is still very feminine presenting, she’s never expressed an interest in hrt, she wants to be called op’s daughter, idk. also i would think getting pregnant would be a lot worse for gender dysphoria than taking birth control. i know there’s a lot of different ways a non binary person can present and they could be very feminine or masculine presenting and still identify as non binary. but…this just doesn’t sound like she actually feels that way. but the way sperm donor keeps saying she needs to be “fixed” and is the only one of them to have ever mentioned hormones, it really sounds like they are trying to force her into a different gender identity. i know that’s not the case for 99.99% of people who identify as something different than their assigned gender, but it is still a possibility and this situation is giving all sorts of red flags.
Brainwashing into a gender change happens. Not common, but it does happen. See: the twin flames cult. This guy sounds like a complete psycho cult leader.
I agree. It sounds to me that sperm donor is transitioning mtf, daughter is nb, but sperm donor wants OP to take care of baby until nb daughter is "fixed" I'm presuming transitions ftm, then they'll "simply" take on the parental roles with sperm donor as the mother and nb daughter as the father? However, I feel like this is something sperm donor is pressuring daughter into and using her confusion as to being nb to convince her she's really male, so that sperm donor can assume the identity of mother. Sperm donor has been doing all the talking, they've probably convinced her that birth control is evil. They sound extremely controlling, and nb daughter is under their spell.
OP is NTA, and it would be better for the baby to be adopted out. It all seems very contrived by the sperm donor. This was no accident.
I agree that SD is pressuring op's daughter and saying she needs to be 'fixed' is a big red flag. It sounds like daughter has been having some legitimate questioning of her gender identity but SD has latched on to this and is now steering the boat.
However, I'm non-binary and I still present fem and use she/her pronouns. I have no desire for hrt but I do use other medications/diet to reduce dysphoria symptoms regarding my body. For example, I'm on hormonal birth control because pregnancy would absolutely trigger intense dysphoria for me. When I think about my gender I feel no real attachment to either male or female. My gender is just an amorphous blob as far as I'm concerned. I'm in my 30s and, because fem pronouns don't cause me dysphoria, it's just easier to continue using fem pronouns. And I understand that as someone who is AFAB, by default I am fem presenting to people who don't know me. I guess my point is that, if SD wasn't in the picture and clearing influencing her, OP's daughter's stance on her enby status doesn't read as weird to me.
And fixing seems to be daughter becoming a male while sperm donor becomes a woman if I understand what's implied in OP's post ?!? I mean I can understand that happening in some healthy relationships and be a good thing but when you add an abusive, isolating sperm donor into the mix with two very young adults that's troubling. And OP's daughter, if tale is told accurately (always alert for bias from original posters), daughter seems confused, immature, and easily manipulated.
Yeah, SD is for sure an abuser. All the signs are there And will likely get worse. I know a few couples where both have transitioned and several where both are enby after getting together, but they're adults with adult brains and adult paychecks who use condoms and birth control methods that don't impact their hormonal situations. They're responsible queer adults. These two are irresponsible queer children, and one is a victimizer.
When OPs kid gets a few years into adulthood and had to continue making hard choices, they'll likely run back to mom with open arms and apologies. I'd KILL to have a parent who tried this hard to understand me. Unfortunately, OP can't actually do anything until their kid leaves this abusive jerk.
NTA also it sounds like your daughter is in an abusive relationship with this person. Sorry your daughter has been brain washed by this crazy person. I would definitely contact this sperm donors family and if they seem sane warn them about how crazy both of spoke to you.
>NTA also it sounds like your daughter is in an abusive relationship with this person. Sorry your daughter has been brain washed by this crazy person.
That is my fear, and not a bad idea to contact Sperm-doner's parents. This has all happened so far, I feel like I'm in shock and I'm very worried.
A second vote for contacting SD’s parents because you are getting conflicting information, attempts at manipulation, and you should know if they’re facing the same thing. They might have already said no after hearing the same BS.
I am so sorry you are facing this. Keep telling your daughter you love her no matter what. If she demands you prove it by taking the baby, just remind her love doesn’t require proof or to put yourself at risk… because chances are SD is asking her for those things.
On the other hand, those parents did raise this person. So there's a non zero chance that the parents are as bad or worse than sperm donor. A united front could help, but then she'd have to make sure that the other parents are actually reliable and not also manipulative assholes like their child turned out to be.
I was thinking that too. And pawning this poor baby off on OP and having the baby raised as the daughter's sibling is a convenient excuse so they never find out. "Oh no, that's not her baby, it's her mother's."
I think SD's parents kicked him out because he's legally and adult and an atrocious human being and came up with this pregnancy idea to get OP to let him move in with them (OP and enby-spawn).
I would put money on them lying about Enby-spawn being pregnant. I mean what proof did they show OP? Doctors confirmation or what? You can but poz pregnancy tests on craig's list!
Definitely contact the sperm donor’s parents. I’m highly sympathetic to those who truly suffer from gender dysphoria, I can’t imagine how uncomfortable and distressing it would be to feel your body is that wrong. But, this doesn’t sound like actual gender dysphoria, it sounds like social contagion (all their friends are claiming non binary and get attention, so if we do the same, we’ll get attention too). Your daughter is a legal adult, and from the sound of it was given proper information that if you put the penis in the vagina and sperm is released, you get a baby and she and he ignored it. Even if she didn’t like hormonal birth control, condoms are free at damn near every clinic, school and counselor’s office out there, or are readily available for purchase at truly any gas station, Walmart or grocery store in the country and are highly effective at preventing babies. She’s made adult choices, she can have adult consequences of taking care of her own baby or doing the probably far healthier for everyone thing and putting that baby up for adoption. I personally know at least 3 families that would absolutely love to grow their family and are doing so via adoption that could give a baby an incredible life filled with every possible opportunity and more love than you can imagine. Make sure his parents are in the know on what’s going on, and if they’re even remotely reasonable, work with them on a united front on how to handle the bad behavior and try to ensure the welfare of the baby without you having to raise it yourself.
The only concern I would have about contacting his parents is that they could be just as bad, if not worse, and get in the middle of all this and cause you even more issues.
This is crazy. You are NTA. Go to therapy, because this is a lot to feel and deal with. Good for you for seeking out help from someone. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. You reached out and let your daughter know you’d be there for her but with a boundary. There’s nothing else you can do about this situation. They are adults and this baby is their responsibility, not yours.
I wouldnt be surprise if OP gets a call one day from CPS to get the baby. These two are not mentally stable to be parents based on the things they say and do.
And if she gives in and raises the child, cycle will repeat and she could have a house full of kids. Cuz why not keep procreating if you can drop the kid off at moms and proceed with life as if nothing has changed?
A similar thing happened to a family friend. His daughter kept having babies, though she was addicted to drugs and not whatever is going on here. He took in the first two but couldn't afford to raise the rest. I assume they went into foster care or were adopted. I think she eventually ODed or died from complications from years of drug abuse. It was such a sad situation.
NTA-
*They said that if I don’t agree to raise it, they’ll make sure I’ll never see the baby ever.*
Duh?
It might actually work out if they leave the baby with you. You could claim abandonment and have CPS place it in a home.
There dont need to be any drugs involved to be insane or delusional. There are a great many perfectly sober people out there doing stupid shit.
>You could claim abandonment and have CPS place it in a home.
Yes. I wouldn't normally recommend involving CPS, but this situation involves a baby that hasn't bonded with its parents, and the child would absolutely benefit from being adopted into a loving home. And adoption is relatively easy for newborns!
Totally understandable if OP needs to recuse herself form the situation entirely. But I would definitely fight for this kid's wellbeing. This is the best time to save this child from a life of misery.
I’m banking that at some point they are going to drop baby on OPs doorstep and “ding ding ditch” the second they figure out how hard a newborn is at any age much less 18.
>*They said that if I don’t agree to raise it, they’ll make sure I’ll never see the baby ever.*
I read that as threat. OP needs to contact the police for the child's protection.
Yeah that wasn't the way I interpreted it. They know OP doesn't want to care for the child. OP has been painfully clear.
Neither one wants to care for the child. They are trying to pawn the kid off onto someone else. That's a major indicator for child abuse.
Most people who think abortion is a sin also feel that way about gender reassignment. The sperm donor sounds full of all kinds of shit, and not shy about spewing it, and I’m sorry you weren’t able to shut them down and let your daughter speak. It does sound like a hideous relationship; unfortunately your daughter may have to learn that the hard way.
You are NTA. I really feel for you. It’s so painful to watch a child head down a dangerous path. The donor is so ignorant and so full of nastiness.
You’re right; daughter is an adult and you don’t really have any power. MAYBE if there’s evidence of her possibly being a danger to herself or another you can take some kind of action.
I pray they do not keep the baby. They sound like they will be horrible parents. I hope you’ll be able to keep tabs on them enough to call CPS if need be.
The girl isn't trans, the girl told her mother she was nonbinary, and that she would be choosing her pronouns on a daily base, after two weeks, she stopped caring about it, and told her mother to call her "her."
With this type of determination it's clear where the problem with her gender, and her pronouns came from, after all, who keeps saying she needs to be fixed.
Nta at all. Your daughter will wake up one day full of regret, be there for her that day but be there for yourself every day. You are worth it.
The baby? Horrible situation but you can’t play hero and you certainly can take care of a child whose parents treat you like that hopefully they put it up for adoption.
**Update**: I logged in and received a large amount of requests for an update. Unfortunately I do not have one. I have not seen or heard from my daughter since the last meeting, and I believe she has changed her phone number.
Our community isn't a large one and I have heard through the grapevine she is staying with the Sperm Donor in one of the homeless camps out in the woods. As this is a haven for drugs and sex trafficking, this is a further concern. From what I've heard, she is pregnant.
Myself and a few friends and family members have driven through the camp area a few times on the lookout for her, but it's very large and there aren't exactly marked roads. Also, recently other people have been shot at while walking their dogs around there, or riding ATVs, so every time we go, it's a risk.
So that's it. I'm stuck hoping she's safe and under some kind of shelter (there are a lot of plywood houses and broken down RVs out there) and waiting to hear news when she has the baby. Yes, CPS and the local police are aware of my concerns.
I'm worried the child will be born addicted to drugs because I don't know anyone who doesn't live out there who isn't a methhead.
Thanks for your concern, all. I'm unsure what I'll do when the baby is born. I might have to take in the baby after all just to make sure it doesn't live in that camp, and it may make me the asshole... but I am not looking forward to the hard work and drama that will come with it.
> have to take in the baby after all just to make sure it doesn't live in that camp, and it may make me the asshole... but I am not looking forward to the hard work and drama that will come with it.
Oh man. This just gets worse and worse. You're not an asshole for not looking forward to cleaning up this shitshow that has occurred. You also wouldn't be the asshole if you passed on taking the baby. This is going to be a lot of work and a lot of stress with SpermD being awful and the kid possibly needing to detox after being born.
You’re not responsible for the mess your daughter has created. You’re not responsible for raising a possibly drug addicted baby. Your daughter blocked you. Maybe someday she’ll realize her sperm donor is controlling and a total mind control asshole. Please get therapy to deal with the conflicting emotions. Be strong.
I hope your daughter and grandchild are safe, and I hope you can at least get your grandchild out of there if not both of them. I’m so sorry this is happening, OP.
NTA
>The only silver lining in this was that they both seemed sober. I don’t think there’s drugs involved.
Yeah, no.... if they are this stupid while sober then they have no chance in life.
I wouldn't be shocked if it is more-so Sperm Donor having some undiagnosed mental health issues pop up. Assuming he is around OP's daughter's age, the young adult years is when some illnesses start to go full swing.
Well Sperm donor is apparently a "her" who was sexually harassing OP in her own home and OP's daughter felt that made them a great candidate to impregnate her with her "sibling" that her mother(OP) would raise.
If 2 out of 3 of these people don't have mental illnesses I'll be damn shocked
Op, I’m sorry for what your daughter’s putting you thru. I read & commented on your first post. They are trying to make you do ALL the work so they can live their carefree lives as they see fit. Neither of them are taking any accountability for their actions here.
I don’t think it’s a bad idea to take the baby and give it up for adoption but that’s going to be a very hard thing to do because both your daughter & sperm donor would need to completely sign away their parental rights, giving you full custody & guardianship. I’m not even sure how that would work where you live.
I do know how stressful and anxious what you’re going thru is. Definitely get some counseling/therapy for yourself. I’m thinking of doing so myself (different issues with my 21 yr old daughter).
Is it possible to talk to sperm donor’s family/parents?
I wouldn’t be surprised if once your daughter had her baby and sees how hard it is to raise a child at her age, with most likely no help from sperm donor, she’ll be knocking at your door or call on the phone. Prepare yourself for that day in the meantime.
Offering you hugs and I hope it’s all going to be okay!
Keep us updated please! Updateme
They want OP to raise the child as her own but you can be sure they'll go all heavy parents to keep OP in line with disgusting BF's strictures. What a toad the BF is, and that's an insult to toads.
Be prepared to have that baby dropped on your doorstep. My little step-sister did that to my dad (her mom had passed already) and then did it to my dad *again* with a second child. She has since passed (OD) and my dad went through hell figuring out someone to legally take over when he turned 75 and had to admit that he was no longer physically capable of taking care of two young kids by himself.
ARE YOU INSANE???
They are against using birth control. In other words, this won't be the first nor the last time they show up at your door to take responsibility for these two! If you don't protest now, you'll end up being a daycare center. You are a good mother precisely because you know that taking responsibility for your daughter will ruin her life even more. Being a good parent is not always easy but I hope you understand that this is when your daughter needs to get hurt to learn. Wait patiently because she may come back to you. But never put a shield on her against the consequences.
This is called coercive control, and it is actually a serious criminal offense. Please contact a women's support group for information on how to proceed, and possibly the police as well. I'm sorry you're going through this
I suspect she will show up on your doorstep with a baby in arms. At that point, I would indicate to her that if she is unable to care for the baby that it needs to be put in foster care. If you accept responsibility for this baby, she will simply show up ten months later with another one for you to raise.
I hope you don’t get sucked in down the road and you make sound boundaries so your daughter doesn’t come back in a few years to drop off her kid and run.
Pretty wild that a trans person is saying abortion is a sin. None of this is anything like what you're going to hear from any healthy LGBT community, who are quite careful to make sure not to support people in delusional or antisocial behavior. Definitely get therapy, sounds like your kid has some serious mental health problems if they're being influenced by whatever wackos put these ideas into their head. You're going to need support in coping with this madness. NTA by a country mile. You are in no way "abusing" your kid by refusing to take responsibility for their bad choices.
>None of this is anything like what you're going to hear from any healthy LGBT community, who are quite careful to make sure not to support people in delusional or antisocial behavior.
Thank you and yes, I don't want to minimize my daughter's role in it but the hard anti-abortion thing surprised me too. A lot of what they said contradicted itself. It felt like I was sitting across from two people who were in their own wacko bubble.
I know it's not a LGBT thing. I wish someone from their community would knock some sense into them, if its even possible at this point.
You already said you don’t want to raise another baby. Just because they changed the label to grandchild and not sibling makes no difference. Your daughter and her partner are both assholes who need anger management and therapy. The partner is an abusive control freak who has no business being a parent let alone in a relationship. They see your daughter as easy prey.
Stand by what you say and don’t agree to raising the baby for a second. All you need to do is make sure one way or another that your daughter has a safe zone when she finally leaves her abuser. But she needs to figure out what is best for the baby and if she needs “fixed” being a parent isn’t what is best. And honestly, she doesn’t need “fixed” because of you or “fixed” in general. She needs help to get better because of her choices. Like therapy and probably medication to help. I hope she wakes up soon from being under the spell.
Wacko bubble indeed is a perfect way to call this. My two cents is that you stay out of it. Care for yourself first. Your daughter might be in a weird culty thing, but I don’t see it as her being forced nor coerced into it. She is an adult that took bad decisions that led to this and doesn’t have the courage to ask or seek for proper help. Also, honestly I find it difficult to believe there were no drugs involved.
Queer and NB here. POS folks come in all shapes, sizes, colors, genders, religions, and sexual preferences. Unfortunately it isn't likely that things are going to change even if the entirety of the alphabet Mafia shows up with glitter cannons. They're still going to be pieces of shit. There are no membership cards to revoke. All we can do is say, "We don't claim them."
*two people who were in their own wacko bubble*
They are. Their thoughts are disordered.
They are arguing that your daughter's pregnancy is somehow your fault. You didn't force her to have unprotected sex Or even encourage it. You gave her the tools she needed to find the right birth control method. You didn't take away her agency over her own body.
Unfortunately they’re not worried about being logically consistent, they’re worried about having power and control. I know you would love to kick SD in the nads (I would too) but your daughter is in a mindset to agree with him and be influenced with him so they’re both looking for that control, and to be right.
Don’t give them an inch, because this bullshit is designed to force you to give them everything they want, one inch at a time. Decide what you’re ok doing for daughter only, if anything, and stick to it.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.
Like all communities the queer community has its nut bags who feel completely comfortable denying other people bodily autonomy (especially when convenient for coercion and control). I suspect that if it would make OP/Daughter easier to control abortion would be back on the table.
Also I expected of Sperm Doner is transfeme they will force Daughter to assume an surrogate identity for the child with SD being the "real" mother. Which makes me wonder if Daughters gender identity is being manipulated....
NTA
Stay strong because in a few years CPS is going to be knocking on your door to raise that kid and likely a couple others if they are against BC, I would bet money on that.
I feel bad for that poor kid, here is hoping mother nature decides this pregnancy is not viable.
NTA. These two sound wildly entitled. Everyone is right who says you'll wind up with a day care full of kids from these two if you cave in. What they need is the harsh reality of trying to support themselves and a child. They won't grow up otherwise. They've also built some fantasy narrative where they're queer victims and their families are straight monsters. They're using guilt and shame to push the narrative. They want to do what they want, live how they please, and have no responsibility or means of support. If you allow this, you'll be supporting them for the rest of their lives. Don't do it.
Commenting on Update: My NB Daughter Wants Me To Raise Her Baby...at the very least, create an email subfolder, email yourself all documentation and logs of behavior w/ dates, times, screenshots, etc. and keep a file that can’t be accessed or destroyed
You're still NTA. Geeze, your daughter's partner sounds a lot like my ex's partner. Super aggressive, in your face, what we say is right, and you're an AH if you don't believe it bs. (My ex's new partner is also MTF trans.)
The red flags are massive, and you're also right to feel like sperm-donor's behavior is controlling. However, right now, they're doing a damn good job at painting you the villain in both their eyes eyes, and that won't change anytime soon.
Sperm donor has likely been whispering in your daughter's ear for a while, slowly preying on things your daughter has been too afraid to talk to you about or wasn't sure she wanted herself.
Speaking from experience, it is okay to step away. It's okay to go seek therapy and healing. Take the NC from your daughter as a sign to take care of yourself. They're both adults, and they can be mad you won't play free child care. They can figure it out. You can be the villain in their story and still live your life.
I know I gave you advice on your original post. I am a mom of three daughters. They are in their early mid 30s now.
So I am honestly probably just holding up to be your mom if I had had you pretty young. And here’s what I’m gonna tell you…
As hard as it is for you, you now have to back off. The only thing you can do is let your daughter know one final time that you love her and that you will be there for her. That had she communicated some of those things to you, you certainly would’ve taken an action.
But you can’t be expected to know what she doesn’t tell you. so she does not get to blame you for things. She didn’t tell you about. But that being said, you will always be there for her. She simply needs to reach out to you and let you know what she needs.
The caveat is… Sperm donor is not welcome in your house or in your life or anywhere near you at any time. So if she involves him, she should not contact you. If what she needs is you to raise her daughter or give her money for her daughter, she needs to not contact you.
But if she ever wraps her head around the fact that she is now an adult, and making adult decisions, and decides to leave him, because he is incredibly toxic for her, you will be there in a heartbeat. But again, it involves sperm donor.
On top of that, you can apologize if you truly missed something. Have actually apologize to my daughters many times, the beginning when they were younger, and their dad walked out. I let them know I was going to do my best, but I am human, and I will make mistakes. And if I do, and I hurt you, I really am sorry. But I am doing my best.
As an adult, you feel there are things that I should’ve done differently, you can certainly let me know. But you cannot use that to blame me for your in action on course correcting your life. Because again, I’m human. I don’t care what interaction you have with other humans, people are going to hurt your feelings or you are going to feel not hurt or you’re going to feel that certain things in your life continue to affect you.
But as an adult, when you recognize that, you don’t get to sit back on your ass and just blame everything in your life on it. You’re an adult. Now you have to take charge of your life and get some help to work through it. Because regardless of me, trying my best, I know they are going to be some things that stick with you Because I still have things from grandma.
And I am well aware grandma did her best. I am well aware she loved me. I am well aware that a lot of her choices were informed by the mores of the day. As an adult, when I understand those things but I see something still affecting me years later, it’s my responsibility to now try to fix the behaviors that I am exhibiting that don’t serve me well.
And all of that is true of your daughter. I know it’s super hard, but all she wants right now is to play the blame game. She wants to try to guilt you into giving her things and money and raising her child and someone because it’s all your fault.
I’m here to tell you, it’s not. I am here to tell you that you cannot read. If she didn’t want birth control, she should’ve said so. If she wanted hormones, she needed to say so. Because there’s no way for you to know this.
Could you possibly have been more involved? Maybe? Because I know we don’t have the entire story. But I can tell you that my daughters did let me know things they needed. I did ask questions. And there are so things are telling me as adults that they just weren’t comfortable with at the time. And that’s OK.
So time for you to stop. Stop reaching out. Stop your contact. Start making a life of your own. That does not involve your daughter. Let her know the door is always open to her and her alone, but not for her to just leave and move in with her child and think you’re going to pay for everyone and raise everyone. Because that’s not a thing.
She is making her decision, and now she’s going to have to live with it. And if they continue this shitty lifestyle, your responsibility is going to be making sure your grandchild is safe. The two of them sound like they sort of off the deep end and in La La Land.
So you need to keep an eye from afar. You need to keep records of your interactions. You can watch on social media and screenshot anything that is up concerned. And if you finally feel enough, busy enough, then you contact CPS for the grandchild.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. You’re not the first to do so, you won’t be the last. Your daughter is not the first to make decisions that are influenced by a toxic personality at a very vulnerable time in her life. She is not the first one to swallow the Kool-Aid.
Hopefully she will find her way out. But if you try to force it, she will dig her heels in deeper. So step back. Live your own life. Be prepared for a possible call in the middle of the night and have a strategy as far as what you’re going to do if you get it.
And absolutely continue your counseling
Honestly, you should send the post to your child. Let them read the comments. They are incredibly selfish for expecting you to raise their child. If they are old enough to have a child, they are old enough for the responsibilities. I had my first child at 21 and there is no way I would’ve ever expected my parents to raise my child. It’s even worse because of who the father is.
I read the original post when you posted it.. your still NTA by the way and they both have some growing up to do. Focus on yourself and just hope your child will get her/their act together before the baby comes. Sending hugs.
NTA.
Your daughter has fallen victim to many things. She’s fallen victim to the trap of questioning your own gender identity for no reason. If you are legitimately non-binary (as I am), you either know something is off and seek out the answer or you don’t care (me again), and just move life on. It sounds more like angst upon angst upon angst, and this topic is just the stupid hill her young adult brain chose to die on.
She’s also fallen victim to the toxic notions that you owe things like gender-affirming care, especially when you haven’t had it requested. For those families fortunate enough to have both the money and the inclination to support hormonal therapies, this is wonderful, but that’s not most families. It’s expensive and often the state and medical community fight you every step of the way.
And she’s fallen victim to a juvenile abuser. Someone who has an idea of what is needed to abuse someone, but not mature enough in the practice to be good at it. So they overplay their hand on everything and make themselves obvious to outsiders.
There’s nothing you can or should do. She’s an adult, she’s made choices, she now gets to live with them. You will feel horrible about it, here just really isn’t anything you can do. You spent 18 years getting her here. Any choices she makes are, quite literally, her baby now. One way or another, she now gets to deal with the consequences of her actions.
Keep watch on things, and be ready to act. If they don’t care for the child, be ready to call child services and prevent a problem. Be ready to call the police if there is abuse or violence. But don’t be the bail-out point. This is going to lift off, fly low, and crash super hard. When that happens, she’ll do some learning and maybe remove her head from her ass.
Nothing you do can prevent this from happening. Anything you try to do will only push her further into doing what she wants. It’s horrifying, but you have to let her sleep in the bed that she made, because she’s not going to permit anything else. Just be ready to pull the trigger and get the authorities involved before anything reaches a tragic level. And yes, she’ll be pissed…but she’ll get it once she stops being a moron.
Some people take advice, some people choose violence. Buckle up.
The worst thing about taking their baby in would be setting a precedent. You took one, so you can take all the offspring the irresponsible (nonbc) sperm-doner and your daughter can pop out. The only reasonable course of action would be to maintain your present refusal to take in the baby. They need to understand the consequences of creating and delivering into the world a human baby. That includes possible consequences with governmental agencies like CPS if they fail to take reasonable care of the child. Sounds like sperm-doner wants to prove his manhood by siring a bunch of babies -- instead of proving his manhood by taking care of business in a mature way. He's not a real man --just all talk and ejaculate.
Good luck with your counseling. Always helpful to have a trained, neutral party to discuss those difficult problems in life.
I highly doubt he’ll stick around long after the birth and daughter will come back running for help. I suggest you write down what you want to see from her before you ever let her live with you again. She’s an adult making adult decision with a child like mind and that needs to stop. It’s time for you to let her grow up and learn that life has consequences for bad decisions. I also suggest that you maybe consider contacting CPS so they can get her a social worker that can watch out for this baby from day 1 of it’s birth because I feel like this is a disaster waiting to happen. Especially if they decide that they don’t want you involved at all. NTA.
I feel like this person would say whatever they need to say at any given time to achieve their desired goals.
I'm sorry you're going through such a hard situation.
You would be a bad mother IF you enabled that nutjob behavior. Yeah she is in a cult, and there is nothing you can do. Anything you do will push her further.
At this point just tell her to take care and try to have as fewer babies as posible, as she will be raising them alone. Then let her go.
“You’re terrible and awful and caused me so much pain- here raise my baby.”
Did you ask the sperm donor why he didn’t use a condom? Or take any precautions?
What is their definition of “fixed”? What time frame do they think it will take to correct whatever requires her to not raise her kid? Or him for that matter.
If both sets of parents are terrible, well by golly I guess they need to choose to not be as terrible and step up.
I would never accept any blame for her choices that led to her pregnancy. You didn’t force her to have unprotected sex.
I’m sorry but a trans person saying an abortion is a sin is the wildcard of the day. There’s a lot of biblical text that indicates a distain for homosexual relationships but not one single mention of abortion. Love the misogyny there.
I'll say it and take the lumps;
I hope nature takes it's course, because any baby coming from these two train wrecks will have a messed up life. OP you're still NTA here.
You're NTA. Both your daughter and the sperm donor sound like sick people who need help and therapy. They frankly sound like narcissists, and there's no winning with a narcissist. They are bound to be awful parents themselves and I feel truly sorry for this child. That said, you have no obligations here, in fact if I were you I'd strongly consider just cutting ties for your own mental health. It is very much like she's joined a cult and I'm so sorry, I simply don't see a future in this relationship, though of course that's ultimately your call. The thing about cult members is that you can't help them until they want to help themselves. As long as they're into the cult, you'll find getting through to them to be completely impossible. I hope you seek some therapy too, this must be a lot to handle. Good luck to you, I'm so sorry.
Nta. Change the locks and let then figure it out on their own. Do not give them anything. If you are such an evil monster then they shouldn't want anything from you anyways. This is one life lesson she needs to fully learn on her own. If you worry about the baby you can report them to children services now. They will start investing when the child is born. She won't learn a thing unless you allow her to hit rock bottom. It's not nice but it is the best thing you can do for her in the long run
NTA - Your daughter is 18. I'd tell her to get out. She needs to learn that actions have consequences. Letting a man stick his penis in you has a consequence.
NTA. So sperm donor thinks abortion is a sin (insert eye roll) and that you are basically a horrible mother, *but* at the same time, you're the most appropriate caretaker for the baby? Who tf does this person think they are? I know idiots come in all ages, but it is glaringly obvious that this person is young and dumb. They don't have enough life experience to be spouting opinions like these. Everyone thought they knew it all at 18, then we grow up and realize we didn't know shit.
OP, I'm so sorry your family is dealing with this. I can't even imagine. I hope your kid comes to their senses. I hope you vibe well with your counselor. Maybe try calling them back and (if you're interested) let them know to give you a call if they have cancellations so you can be seen sooner. It'll be nice to have an outside, unbiased opinion and someone to help guide you through these big emotions.
To daughter: "I will be here for you when you realize you are in a manipulative (which is a form of abuse) relationship and need to leave. I love you. Also, I am getting a pet kangaroo and I want you to raise it for me."
NTA - these 2 are a huge part of why some people cannot take trans/nb/etc people serious because they have fallen into the loud out of touch faction of the LGBTQ+ and are so wrapped up in their victimhood and self importance that logic is just gone. They make me embarrassed to be trans. You have done nothing wrong please remember that. And its tough because god knows that baby needs to be removed from that situation asap, they are obviously in no mental state to raise a child. But if you take it then they have won.... So what do you do? I dont envy the choice you have to make here.
There are going to be some not great consequences, whatever you decide to do. But that is because your daughter isn’t making good decisions right now. You’re just going to have to be prepared to pivot if needed, but forgive yourself now as you are doing the best you can since you can’t see the future.
Just want to say that agreeing to adopt the baby and then giving it up for adoption to someone else would be a shitty thing to do. But I would not encourage you to adopt at all. She needs to figure this out on her own!
You are NTA.
The donor is for sure calling all the shots and your daughter is probably so scared being pregnant she is going along with it. They are adults and need to take responsibility for their actions. This wasn’t them asking it was demanding.
I’m sorry you have to do this but be there for your daughter if she needs help, because she probably does but she isn’t listening.
Gently let her know you want to have a calm conversation with her alone and tell her in no uncertain terms that you are not the child’s mother she is and if she wants to go out and fuck around like an adult she will have to figure it out like one. Tell her you want the baby in your life but you raised your kid already she gets to make the decision for hers. But you are not going to raise it.
Also if you can ask open ended questions to get her to talk about her donor and the situation.
Do not cave. I feel for the baby. But babies can be adopted. Too many times older kids just end up in foster care. What happens if something happens to you a few years down the road? What happens to that choice then? Let her block you. Talk to not just a counselor but to an attorney. Someone needs to know what this girl and her jerk sperm donor are up to in order to keep that baby safe. Who keeps insurance on her?
You are NTA, and I know you will be there, in the background, waiting for when your child needs help, but please change your locks so that she doesn't have keys. If her and Sperm donor move in, it is going to be he'll getting them out and they will just take off and leave the baby expecting you to take care of it, all the while calling you a horrible parent.
NTA. I had a neice who's bf convinced her to get off BC and had her convinced the hormones were messing with her health and fitness. She immediately got pregnant. It's not uncommon, alas. Stay strong, we're all rooting for you!
Sperm donor is 100% abusing your child and brainwashing them and there's nothing you can legally do since they're an adult. Are you friends with any of their friends' parents? If you are, you might be able to get more of an insight on their relationship dynamic through them. It's an incredibly delicate situation and I hope your child makes it out as unscathed as possible because he sounds unhinged.
NAT - I had a different but similar situation where my daughter listened to someone else who poisoned her against me. They managed to alienate her from her entire family. She called me at 18 and told me I starved her because I was a single mother and she had to eat cheap food (she had 3 meals a day with what I could afford). I was dirt pour working an entry level position that paid crap and did my best. The way I handled it was to tell her I loved her and that I was there for her if she ever wanted to talk down the road but for now, it was best if we didn't speak until she was ready to speak and not just attack. It destroyed me and if I hadn't had the most amazing and loving man in my life, I probably wouldn't be here now.
I honestly didn't expect much until her 30s but was surprised when she reached out about 3 years later wanting to talk. And then another year when she called saying she wanted a divorce from that person. Many years later and we have an amazing relationship and she acknowledges that the person she ran off and married at 18 was a narcissist. She regularly tells me that she appreciates everything I tried did when she was young and that I did the best I could with my limited income.
It hurts but sometimes we have to let them make their mistakes and just make sure they know we love them and will be there later if they need us. But that we can't save them from their lives and choices. If she is old enough to get pregnant, she is old enough to deal with the consequences of her actions. I hope she appreciates you someday.
>She is not stupid. I think she’s love blinded.
Re-read your original post where your daughter wanted you to ask if she was a girl every single day, look at the company she keeps, think about the nonsense she spews about working, ponder all the decisions she's made that have led up to this point.
Your daughter isn't stupid, she is an idiot of the highest order.
NTA. Your child needs to deal with their life choices. The best thing you can do for the fetus is not bail these to idiots out of their mess. Hopefully they will give the baby up for adoption.
First change your locks. I feel like sperm donor might just drop off the baby sometime. Second if they bring you the baby against your will maybe she needs to be put in the foster system. It's not a great system but it very well could be better than the baby staying with sperm donor. Not sure what the law is regarding that though. Might be completely illegal
NTA and I seriously doubt your daughter is actually non-binary or in any other way gender-questioning, and is instead being led along by sperm donor. I don’t even know if I believe sperm donor is transgender. The whole thing sounds completely mental and they both sound like a couple of young people who have been spending WAY too much time on the internet and navel-gazing rather than being productive members of society.
For your safety, I would change the locks and put up camera, Sperm-doner seems unhinged. I’m a firm believer in better safe than sorry.
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This baby will be used as a pawn in his never ending psycho drama. If they do not and cannot raise their baby, the best solution is adoption. Otherwise, the father will make your life a living hell. NTA
>This baby will be used as a pawn in his never ending psycho drama. I couldn't figure out a polite way of saying this, but yes. That is my suspicion if I take in their baby. Sperm-doner implied it would be temporary while earlier my daughter said it would be permanent. I think Sperm-doner will refuse to sign over paperwork when the time comes or try to leverage it in some way.
Yes, Sperm-donor sounds like a manipulative AH and will use anyone at their disposal! SD is the one pulling all the strings here.
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"You're a terrible parent. Here's another child for you to screw up." SD and daughter are not living in the world everyone else is in. IDK how you get help for a legal adult but I suggest reaching out to groups for families of children in controlling relationships and even families of cult members could help you either find ways to get to her or find way to come to terms with your situation
shouldn't CPS be called? Both parents are not in the best mental state, especially OP's daugher
Talk to a lawyer and a counselor that specializes in cult deprogramming , first. Be very careful.
I was unsure of the cult angle at first. But its seemed extremely odd for a trams person to have such a strong opinion on "sin". I can think of one cult that might match that though. Twin flames.
Just read up on them and you could well be on to something here. Regardless it’s clear that OPs daughter has gotten themselves into an extremely controlling, and I don’t think it’s a leap to think abusive, relationship. I feel for OP so much because I’m not sure there is anything they can do. Taking in the baby is absolutely not an option though. As difficult as it will be to watch this sh1t show play out, taking in the baby will be a form of enabling whatever the fk is actually going on here. There is no good answer unfortunately.
I would be careful about this - it could set him off in a rage.
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But this isn’t just affecting the non binary person. They are making a choice to bring a child into the world with no intentions of ensuring the baby’s safety or stability. What they did is irresponsable, but it’s not the unborn child’s fault they’ll be born to unfit parents. It’s not just a choice. It’s bringing life into the world. This isn’t just a mistake that you can put a bandaid over and hope it goes away, That child they made SHOULDN’T be punished for the parents selfishness. Nor should OP be expected to raise the baby. I hope this child finds a loving family, and that OP doesn’t get guilt tripped into raising their grandchild. It’s not fair and at the end of the day, everyone loses.
I agree with everything you said here! Also, my OCD soul is crying with relief and gratitude for you, the kind soul who managed to finally interject the proper spelling of “donor” into the thread. Thank you 🙏🏻
I was having fun reading it as spelled done-r..lol
Oh I feel you!! I complimented a commenter just last night because they used the correct word faze rather than phase. I was so grateful, lol.
Also if you took this baby in there’s no guarantee there won’t be another baby in the short future since they don’t understand how reproduction works
I'm also imagining a scenario where I take the baby in as my own, I would get attached and protective of the kid just in time for sperm donor to decide that they are now "ready" to be the parents and take the kid away and use it as blackmail or cut you off completely, I wouldn't want to give the kid up to go live in an unstable environment with terrible parents. At that point you either straight up lose or have a long legal battle......its just really a shit situation no matter what you do. Ideal resolution would be the daughter gets her shit together, and loses Sperm Donor and decides to be an actual mom with the help of the grandma(OP) giving her guidance and resources but I don't have a lot of hope for that. Hopefully that kid can find a loving and stable home
If I were in OPs position the only way I'd be taking in the child is if it were with a legal adoption with birth parental rights severed. Normally I'm all for keeping a child's family intact and providing resources, but it doesn't sound like sperm donor would ever be open to co-parenting, open communication, or emotionally regulation.
Oh no, if op does take the baby it would have to be a full on legal event. Either he sign rights or op becomes a foster mom and then let the system place the baby with her. Then let the social workers decide if they are fit. They’ll change their tune really quick ..
Money. The answer will always be money. You'll end up with 3 adult dependents instead of one. Wash your hands of all of them. Maybe someday your daughter will come back to you, hopefully without permanent damage, but you also can't control that. I'm so sorry you're going through this.
Stick to your guns, because adoption is the only healthy option here. Do not agree to raise this child because that is not what is in the best interest of anyone involved. Sperm donor is also not going to sign the way his rights, how else can he manipulate you if he has no legal rights? And even if they sign their rights away, they will both be in this child’s life, and they will not be good influences. I know you’re worried you drove your daughter away, because she blocked you, but that’s not true at all. I hate to say it, but *she needs you more than you need her and they will both be back.* You need to be patient. So when your daughter comes back, and I’m saying *when*, keep insisting on adoption and refusing to raise the baby, even if she brings a baby with her. Your daughter is mentally and emotionally unstable, unemployed, and in a possibly abusive relationship. This baby will turn out better with a healthy family.
> I hate to say it, but she needs you more than you need her and they will both be back. Daughter likely to u turn one day but hopefully **without** the Sperm-donor.
Just keep letting your child know they always have a space with you, just them, if things get bad. You are correct that sperm donor is trying to isolate your child. They are easier to control that way. I know it's hard to watch your baby be in an abusive relationship, but there really isn't anything you can do but help if and when she asks.
Sperm-donor is a sociopath.
Also they use it as a way to get money off you too as that will be next
Can you call in a welfare check on your daughter? Might help to get her some psychiatric help.
I'm thinking she might want to call child protective services for the unborn baby. Is the daughter seeing the doctor/midwife? Getting all her check ups? Do they need social support? Etc.
>I think Sperm-doner will refuse to sign over paperwork when the time comes or try to leverage it in some way. So if you do decide to raise this child, they MUST sign away any claim. I'm so sorry. That's a lot!
I agree. They must sign the baby over to you. Then I would go after them for child support. In no way agree to a situation where you're doing all the work but they have legal rights for the baby.
That isn't how CS works. If they give up their rights to the child, i.e. it is adopted, they aren't responsible for CS.
For what it’s worth, that was me being polite. lol I was yelling a totally different string of words. I can’t imagine the pain you’re feeling having to watch this unfold. He is the enemy and thinks he’s the victim.
OP, sadly I think you your sense is spot on. I urge you to get some legal advice so you have a better understanding of laws in your state. You may just want to know down the road. Are there “safe haven” laws? If SD gives up custody, what is process & how easy is it to get back. If CPS takes baby, can you still see baby? Having a newborn is hard for 2 well adjusted adults, I can’t imagine how long these two will fare before something happens.
“‘Abortion is a sin’, said the premarital sex having trans-female” was not on my 2024 bingo card
OP please speak with a lawyer, and then a cult deprogrammer. I think you know your child is in an extremely abusive and controlling relationship. I reckon the pregnancy is a gambit to control *you* too. Get REAL professional help that speaks to the situation as it really is. This os your best chance of success.
He will never sign away parental rights until a judge tells him he will go to jail for back child support. But daughter will keep this out of the court. They will leave the baby with you, take the baby back, leave the baby with you, withhold the baby from you. He’s doing this with your kid already. You can’t see her. You threw him out of your house? He will blow your house tf up. That’s Sperm-donor. “Currently seeking a cult to lead.” He’s twisted little effer. He got her pregnant. And now she will do what he says.
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he is a vindictive little shit. But I’m giving him too much credit.
I hate to say it but you need to really think about things. If you don't go no contact, you're going to end up in the middle of a bunch of bs drama. I'm so sorry this is all happening and i really feel awful for the baby being born into this shit show.
It's so difficult, but I keep coming back to that as the only option too. Let the daughter know the door is open for reconciliation in the future, but OP cannot be a part of this current situation.
Same. I keep coming back to the fact that irregardless of shitbag sperm donor, OP’s daughter has a laundry list of issues herself and sounds like she’s pretty mentally ill and definitely delusionally entitled. There’s no way this ends in any other way besides super low contact at the most, if OP doesn’t want to raise their kid and be in the middle of insane drama all the time. I figure CPS will be involved and the child will end up being taken away anyway.
I honestly believe it's time to inform protective services. These individuals sound very unstable and unable to provide a child with a loving environment and the basic necessities of life. Any good parent, regardless of gender, sexuality, how they identify in any way , must provide and care for their child. They are absolutely not going to be able to do this. The child would be at risk
have you considered sending your daughter this post so she can see other people’s opinions. edit: both post
Be ready to help your daughter file for child support. Sperm donor wants to call the shots and tell everyone what to do but he doesn't want to raise a baby and he doesn't want to have to financially support one.
By blackmail would be my first thought. OP, change your locks. Protect your assets. I don't think you've heard the last of that sperm donor.
Tell them you will take in their baby if they both sign over parental rights to you. Then find baby a better family
if you have the ability to observe in the future after the child is born. the child will probably be abused if this keeps going on. if you want to protect the child the best you can, if of course this will help your worries. this is a suggestment - personally i would do it tho
You need to cut off your daughter completely. I know it must be hard but the way you are being treated, I don't know how you can even be around them. I have three of my own and if I were treated this way I would kick them out, cut contact, and offer to either have the sole legal guardian of the child give up for adoption.
Share the post with your daughter anonymously, nothing you say will change their minds but maybe seeing a shit ton of strangers of the internet say how fucked up they are will. The father is a massive red flag and sadly your daughter is his target/victim rn. She will have to decide to leave him and the situation when she's ready and hopefully that will be sooner rather than later. Did you ever tell your daughter what happened in the past with this person?
Have you spoken to sperm-donor's parents? See where they stand, maybe have a united front of reason for when the reality comes crashing in? If they're decent people that is.
I'm sorry OP your daughter is absolutely being emotionally and mentally abused by this loser. I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted her to be Trans to match with him being trans....and I would bet he wants old school gender norms in their home whenever they happens... He'll sit around while he forces your daughter to bust her a$$ as the "man and breadwinner" while he enjoys her hard work and does nothing around the house. She is definitely blinded by infatuation...because this is a sick relationship there's no way real healthy love is involved. If she ever gets out of his hold she's going to need intensive therapy. I was in a controlling relationship and I won't date anymore because I was rewired in such a messed up way with my ex and it's hard to get real mental health care in my location apparently. I wish you luck and that you get your child back sooner than later OP.
And every other baby they produce as well.
As they should. I'd call them myself to protect that baby
Dont worry… cps will probably take the baby from them anyway
One would hope.. but there’s no guarantee baby will make it out better in foster care. Screening and picking adoptive parent ahead of time sounds like a much better bet.
For certain. If you don’t give them money, you’re cut off! If you don’t let him move in, NC! Buy them a car seat or you’re to blame if baby gets hurt! I would certainly be concerned what will happen if daughter and the donor split up, but that’s an issue for another day. Best of luck.
NTA. So their argument is that: 1. You are a terrible parent. 2. Their morals don’t allow for a termination (which is too late anyway) but do allow for child abandonment. 3. They know how to parent better than you do (by telling you all the things you did “wrong”. 4. Take care of their child until they decide they want it back? If you’re such a terrible parent, why would they want you to raise their child? Wouldn’t adoption be a better option? What they’re hoping for is to put their baby on layaway and come pick it up whenever they feel like it. They can’t do that with an adoption.
Logic is entirely out of whack here; the contradictions are rampant. Abortion is wrong (sounds religious/right), Gender choices are okay (not religious/left), child abandonment is okay, OP should have anticipated HRT (fortune teller?), OP should not have gotten birth control (bad fortune teller?), etc...Confusing, Sperm Donor is insane, but hey it is all justified because as a parent the OP is the lesser of two evils. Edit: bad spelling and to add NTA
Throw premarital sex in there too. I feel awful for OP, Sperm Donor convinced OP's daughter her parent is poisoning her with birth control, but also that the baby is now their responsibility? I hope Sperm Donor's awakening is spectacularly rude.
Also I love how taking birth control is too effeminate, but having A WHOLE ASSED FUCKING BABY, THE MOST FEMALE THING POSSIBLE is totally fine.
This was my first thought, too! Not just the most female thing to do, but it permanently changes your body. Boobs, hips, stretch marks, breastfeeding, and hormones that change everything dramatically. I hope she sees different when her brain is flooded with oxytocin after birth and she decides to take care of her baby.
Yeah maybe it's the being 5 mo pregnant myself but this cognitive dissonance blows my mind and pisses me off
Most trans men get very dysphoric at the thought of pregnancy/birth or even mensturation. The thought of her being OK with all of that but not birth control is some serious mental gymnastics. Sperm donor has for sure put some weird ideas of how this whole process was going to go into her head.
Well of COURSE it would. You'd have to be doing some extreme denial of biology/mental compartmentalizing for it to not. I think ops kid is just an asshole, mostly, who uses gender as a stick to beat people with and avoid adult responsibilities.
I’ve known trans people who are right wing and anti-abortion. Being trans or gay isn’t a political ideology.
I was generalizing, but you are absolutely right
It definitely goes against self-interests to be trans and/or gay and right wing; I see what you’re saying. :)
Everyone has an asshole, and this sperm donor POS definitely has a huge one. I'm queer and around trans people regularly. Some are absolutely sweet and wonderful or at least normal (has reasonable boundaries, reactions, makes realistic plans), and some are vulnerable narcissists who weaponize victimhood to be able to strong arm people into giving them their way because otherwise, you're a transphobic bigot. And anyone who follows someone's mother into a kitchen to sexually harass her probably isn't going to be in the first group. OP, your daughter probably will not come to her senses until she gets drummed out of their clique for some imagined slight (I'm betting they'll claim she's abusive) against the sperm donor. The social reinforcement of being 'oppressed' is too strong to leave until sperm donor is done with her and finds a new toy. She'll need you most then. Stay away until that happens, which a few weeks into a new baby will probably happen. Start documenting every interaction with sperm donor! If it's legal in your jurisdiction, record every interaction however short. Get a ring camera. Keep it all, you or your daughter will need all of this later to try and terminate SD's rights. Keep any receipts or bills for pregnancy and infant care. You want to make sure to show SD didn't contribute. Talk to a lawyer to prepare what you'll need when daughter comes back.
Same here (wrt being queer and around trans people regularly; I’m also involved in local trans rights campaigns). I think you’re 100% right and I am willing to bet that SD is someone who weaponizes victimhood in order to be manipulative and abusive.
Seriously. All the “abortion is a sin” talk coming from the people totally cool with gender fluidity and premarital sex was wild! I have no problem with gender fluidity or premarital sex! But I’d also have been telling OP’s kid to get an abortion stat, if I was in her social circle. I don’t think you can have it both ways.
That was my first thought 😂 if she’s such a terrible mom, why give her a chance to do it all over again? These children live in a delusional fantasy world. Op, I’m sorry for such a gut wrenching experience here 😞
I was thinking all these things too, with one extra- if SD was so convinced that bc is poison, why wasn’t He wearing protection?
NTA. Seems to me that Sperm-Doner may be trying to isolate daughter from her family. Also saying she needs to be "fixed" -- abuse signs everywhere here. You can be there as a safe place if one day your daughter sees the light, but in the meantime please take care of yourself.
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Or even report you to cps, sounds like they are mentally unwell.
This is 100% the right thing to do. They don’t want to raise a kid. So they will not do their best. They wanna f- around, they can find out. Sperm donor doesn’t want to raise his kid, OP paid her dues as a mother. They can watch their child get thrown into the system. It is horrible to think about that, but two irresponsible people created a child and they can either raise the baby or let it go. If CPS steps in they don’t sound like they will ever get baby back the way they are behaving. I’d also be recording conversations with them to prove how unfit they are.
And if OP does take baby in they have to sign away parental rights so they can't use the baby as ransom to get what they want.
Agreed. If I were OP the only way I’d raise the baby is if both parents agree to terminate their parental rights and I adopt the child. Otherwise, they (and especially sperm donor) will use the child as a pawn in their manipulation tactics.
Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. A bio parent can't just sign away parental rights, unless there's someone willing and able to adopt the child. Unless parent is in Louisiana, I believe. Mom could go to court and give legal guardianship to a grandparent, but mom would still be the child's legal parent. Dad will have no rights to the baby at all as an unmarried father, unless he does two things: establishes paternity, and gets visitation or custody legally established.
Or use the baby to get OP to support them
If you take physical custody of a relative, make sure you also get legal custody. (Not a lawyer, but I followed the whole Terry Schiavo story.)
Terry Schiavo is the number 1 example of why every adult needs to have financial and medical POA forms and put in writing exactly what they want to happen if they can't speak for themselves.
That story was so heartbreaking 💔
yeah it honestly kind of sounds like she’s being pressured into the whole nb thing? that’s if what op is saying is correct, she still wants to be referred to with she/her pronouns, she is still very feminine presenting, she’s never expressed an interest in hrt, she wants to be called op’s daughter, idk. also i would think getting pregnant would be a lot worse for gender dysphoria than taking birth control. i know there’s a lot of different ways a non binary person can present and they could be very feminine or masculine presenting and still identify as non binary. but…this just doesn’t sound like she actually feels that way. but the way sperm donor keeps saying she needs to be “fixed” and is the only one of them to have ever mentioned hormones, it really sounds like they are trying to force her into a different gender identity. i know that’s not the case for 99.99% of people who identify as something different than their assigned gender, but it is still a possibility and this situation is giving all sorts of red flags.
Brainwashing into a gender change happens. Not common, but it does happen. See: the twin flames cult. This guy sounds like a complete psycho cult leader.
The whole Twin Flames cult is so insane!
I agree. It sounds to me that sperm donor is transitioning mtf, daughter is nb, but sperm donor wants OP to take care of baby until nb daughter is "fixed" I'm presuming transitions ftm, then they'll "simply" take on the parental roles with sperm donor as the mother and nb daughter as the father? However, I feel like this is something sperm donor is pressuring daughter into and using her confusion as to being nb to convince her she's really male, so that sperm donor can assume the identity of mother. Sperm donor has been doing all the talking, they've probably convinced her that birth control is evil. They sound extremely controlling, and nb daughter is under their spell. OP is NTA, and it would be better for the baby to be adopted out. It all seems very contrived by the sperm donor. This was no accident.
I agree that SD is pressuring op's daughter and saying she needs to be 'fixed' is a big red flag. It sounds like daughter has been having some legitimate questioning of her gender identity but SD has latched on to this and is now steering the boat. However, I'm non-binary and I still present fem and use she/her pronouns. I have no desire for hrt but I do use other medications/diet to reduce dysphoria symptoms regarding my body. For example, I'm on hormonal birth control because pregnancy would absolutely trigger intense dysphoria for me. When I think about my gender I feel no real attachment to either male or female. My gender is just an amorphous blob as far as I'm concerned. I'm in my 30s and, because fem pronouns don't cause me dysphoria, it's just easier to continue using fem pronouns. And I understand that as someone who is AFAB, by default I am fem presenting to people who don't know me. I guess my point is that, if SD wasn't in the picture and clearing influencing her, OP's daughter's stance on her enby status doesn't read as weird to me.
Yeah, it’s time for the daughter to move out and stand on her own two feet. Wish them the best and give yourself some space.
And fixing seems to be daughter becoming a male while sperm donor becomes a woman if I understand what's implied in OP's post ?!? I mean I can understand that happening in some healthy relationships and be a good thing but when you add an abusive, isolating sperm donor into the mix with two very young adults that's troubling. And OP's daughter, if tale is told accurately (always alert for bias from original posters), daughter seems confused, immature, and easily manipulated.
Yeah, SD is for sure an abuser. All the signs are there And will likely get worse. I know a few couples where both have transitioned and several where both are enby after getting together, but they're adults with adult brains and adult paychecks who use condoms and birth control methods that don't impact their hormonal situations. They're responsible queer adults. These two are irresponsible queer children, and one is a victimizer. When OPs kid gets a few years into adulthood and had to continue making hard choices, they'll likely run back to mom with open arms and apologies. I'd KILL to have a parent who tried this hard to understand me. Unfortunately, OP can't actually do anything until their kid leaves this abusive jerk.
NTA also it sounds like your daughter is in an abusive relationship with this person. Sorry your daughter has been brain washed by this crazy person. I would definitely contact this sperm donors family and if they seem sane warn them about how crazy both of spoke to you.
>NTA also it sounds like your daughter is in an abusive relationship with this person. Sorry your daughter has been brain washed by this crazy person. That is my fear, and not a bad idea to contact Sperm-doner's parents. This has all happened so far, I feel like I'm in shock and I'm very worried.
A second vote for contacting SD’s parents because you are getting conflicting information, attempts at manipulation, and you should know if they’re facing the same thing. They might have already said no after hearing the same BS. I am so sorry you are facing this. Keep telling your daughter you love her no matter what. If she demands you prove it by taking the baby, just remind her love doesn’t require proof or to put yourself at risk… because chances are SD is asking her for those things.
3rd voting for contacting SD's parents.
Agreeeeed. Definitely do this. Perhaps you can present a united front and get them the help they desperately need.
On the other hand, those parents did raise this person. So there's a non zero chance that the parents are as bad or worse than sperm donor. A united front could help, but then she'd have to make sure that the other parents are actually reliable and not also manipulative assholes like their child turned out to be.
I would bet money that the donor's parents don't know about the pregnancy at all.
I was thinking that too. And pawning this poor baby off on OP and having the baby raised as the daughter's sibling is a convenient excuse so they never find out. "Oh no, that's not her baby, it's her mother's."
I think SD's parents kicked him out because he's legally and adult and an atrocious human being and came up with this pregnancy idea to get OP to let him move in with them (OP and enby-spawn). I would put money on them lying about Enby-spawn being pregnant. I mean what proof did they show OP? Doctors confirmation or what? You can but poz pregnancy tests on craig's list!
Yes I didn't even think about his parents. Definitely call them
Op document every encounter and save everything message just in case you need to report them to CPS or need it from some court hearing.
Definitely contact the sperm donor’s parents. I’m highly sympathetic to those who truly suffer from gender dysphoria, I can’t imagine how uncomfortable and distressing it would be to feel your body is that wrong. But, this doesn’t sound like actual gender dysphoria, it sounds like social contagion (all their friends are claiming non binary and get attention, so if we do the same, we’ll get attention too). Your daughter is a legal adult, and from the sound of it was given proper information that if you put the penis in the vagina and sperm is released, you get a baby and she and he ignored it. Even if she didn’t like hormonal birth control, condoms are free at damn near every clinic, school and counselor’s office out there, or are readily available for purchase at truly any gas station, Walmart or grocery store in the country and are highly effective at preventing babies. She’s made adult choices, she can have adult consequences of taking care of her own baby or doing the probably far healthier for everyone thing and putting that baby up for adoption. I personally know at least 3 families that would absolutely love to grow their family and are doing so via adoption that could give a baby an incredible life filled with every possible opportunity and more love than you can imagine. Make sure his parents are in the know on what’s going on, and if they’re even remotely reasonable, work with them on a united front on how to handle the bad behavior and try to ensure the welfare of the baby without you having to raise it yourself.
Good luck. Hopefully things work out okay for you and eventually your daughter.
I feel like the family might have more info to fill in for you on what is wrong with this person. I’m sorry this is happening to you
The only concern I would have about contacting his parents is that they could be just as bad, if not worse, and get in the middle of all this and cause you even more issues.
This is crazy. You are NTA. Go to therapy, because this is a lot to feel and deal with. Good for you for seeking out help from someone. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. You reached out and let your daughter know you’d be there for her but with a boundary. There’s nothing else you can do about this situation. They are adults and this baby is their responsibility, not yours.
I wouldnt be surprise if OP gets a call one day from CPS to get the baby. These two are not mentally stable to be parents based on the things they say and do.
And if she gives in and raises the child, cycle will repeat and she could have a house full of kids. Cuz why not keep procreating if you can drop the kid off at moms and proceed with life as if nothing has changed?
A similar thing happened to a family friend. His daughter kept having babies, though she was addicted to drugs and not whatever is going on here. He took in the first two but couldn't afford to raise the rest. I assume they went into foster care or were adopted. I think she eventually ODed or died from complications from years of drug abuse. It was such a sad situation.
NTA- *They said that if I don’t agree to raise it, they’ll make sure I’ll never see the baby ever.* Duh? It might actually work out if they leave the baby with you. You could claim abandonment and have CPS place it in a home. There dont need to be any drugs involved to be insane or delusional. There are a great many perfectly sober people out there doing stupid shit.
>You could claim abandonment and have CPS place it in a home. Yes. I wouldn't normally recommend involving CPS, but this situation involves a baby that hasn't bonded with its parents, and the child would absolutely benefit from being adopted into a loving home. And adoption is relatively easy for newborns! Totally understandable if OP needs to recuse herself form the situation entirely. But I would definitely fight for this kid's wellbeing. This is the best time to save this child from a life of misery.
Huh. That’s not a bad idea taking the baby then turning it over as abandoned… I feel so bad for OP. this is a nightmare.
I’m banking that at some point they are going to drop baby on OPs doorstep and “ding ding ditch” the second they figure out how hard a newborn is at any age much less 18.
>*They said that if I don’t agree to raise it, they’ll make sure I’ll never see the baby ever.* I read that as threat. OP needs to contact the police for the child's protection.
They will deny OP time to see the grandkid nobody wants? Dont threaten ME with a good time...
Yeah that wasn't the way I interpreted it. They know OP doesn't want to care for the child. OP has been painfully clear. Neither one wants to care for the child. They are trying to pawn the kid off onto someone else. That's a major indicator for child abuse.
Most people who think abortion is a sin also feel that way about gender reassignment. The sperm donor sounds full of all kinds of shit, and not shy about spewing it, and I’m sorry you weren’t able to shut them down and let your daughter speak. It does sound like a hideous relationship; unfortunately your daughter may have to learn that the hard way. You are NTA. I really feel for you. It’s so painful to watch a child head down a dangerous path. The donor is so ignorant and so full of nastiness. You’re right; daughter is an adult and you don’t really have any power. MAYBE if there’s evidence of her possibly being a danger to herself or another you can take some kind of action. I pray they do not keep the baby. They sound like they will be horrible parents. I hope you’ll be able to keep tabs on them enough to call CPS if need be.
Also abortion is a sin but premarital sex is perfectly fine???? Make it make sense.
I'm shocked too that the guy who got the trans girls pregnant is against abortion. I wasn't expecting that.
The girl isn't trans, the girl told her mother she was nonbinary, and that she would be choosing her pronouns on a daily base, after two weeks, she stopped caring about it, and told her mother to call her "her." With this type of determination it's clear where the problem with her gender, and her pronouns came from, after all, who keeps saying she needs to be fixed.
Nta at all. Your daughter will wake up one day full of regret, be there for her that day but be there for yourself every day. You are worth it. The baby? Horrible situation but you can’t play hero and you certainly can take care of a child whose parents treat you like that hopefully they put it up for adoption.
**Update**: I logged in and received a large amount of requests for an update. Unfortunately I do not have one. I have not seen or heard from my daughter since the last meeting, and I believe she has changed her phone number. Our community isn't a large one and I have heard through the grapevine she is staying with the Sperm Donor in one of the homeless camps out in the woods. As this is a haven for drugs and sex trafficking, this is a further concern. From what I've heard, she is pregnant. Myself and a few friends and family members have driven through the camp area a few times on the lookout for her, but it's very large and there aren't exactly marked roads. Also, recently other people have been shot at while walking their dogs around there, or riding ATVs, so every time we go, it's a risk. So that's it. I'm stuck hoping she's safe and under some kind of shelter (there are a lot of plywood houses and broken down RVs out there) and waiting to hear news when she has the baby. Yes, CPS and the local police are aware of my concerns. I'm worried the child will be born addicted to drugs because I don't know anyone who doesn't live out there who isn't a methhead. Thanks for your concern, all. I'm unsure what I'll do when the baby is born. I might have to take in the baby after all just to make sure it doesn't live in that camp, and it may make me the asshole... but I am not looking forward to the hard work and drama that will come with it.
Oh my gosh OP, this just gets worse and worse. Prayers for that poor innocent baby.
> have to take in the baby after all just to make sure it doesn't live in that camp, and it may make me the asshole... but I am not looking forward to the hard work and drama that will come with it. Oh man. This just gets worse and worse. You're not an asshole for not looking forward to cleaning up this shitshow that has occurred. You also wouldn't be the asshole if you passed on taking the baby. This is going to be a lot of work and a lot of stress with SpermD being awful and the kid possibly needing to detox after being born.
You’re not responsible for the mess your daughter has created. You’re not responsible for raising a possibly drug addicted baby. Your daughter blocked you. Maybe someday she’ll realize her sperm donor is controlling and a total mind control asshole. Please get therapy to deal with the conflicting emotions. Be strong.
I hope your daughter and grandchild are safe, and I hope you can at least get your grandchild out of there if not both of them. I’m so sorry this is happening, OP.
NTA >The only silver lining in this was that they both seemed sober. I don’t think there’s drugs involved. Yeah, no.... if they are this stupid while sober then they have no chance in life.
I wouldn't be shocked if it is more-so Sperm Donor having some undiagnosed mental health issues pop up. Assuming he is around OP's daughter's age, the young adult years is when some illnesses start to go full swing.
Well Sperm donor is apparently a "her" who was sexually harassing OP in her own home and OP's daughter felt that made them a great candidate to impregnate her with her "sibling" that her mother(OP) would raise. If 2 out of 3 of these people don't have mental illnesses I'll be damn shocked
Op, I’m sorry for what your daughter’s putting you thru. I read & commented on your first post. They are trying to make you do ALL the work so they can live their carefree lives as they see fit. Neither of them are taking any accountability for their actions here. I don’t think it’s a bad idea to take the baby and give it up for adoption but that’s going to be a very hard thing to do because both your daughter & sperm donor would need to completely sign away their parental rights, giving you full custody & guardianship. I’m not even sure how that would work where you live. I do know how stressful and anxious what you’re going thru is. Definitely get some counseling/therapy for yourself. I’m thinking of doing so myself (different issues with my 21 yr old daughter). Is it possible to talk to sperm donor’s family/parents? I wouldn’t be surprised if once your daughter had her baby and sees how hard it is to raise a child at her age, with most likely no help from sperm donor, she’ll be knocking at your door or call on the phone. Prepare yourself for that day in the meantime. Offering you hugs and I hope it’s all going to be okay! Keep us updated please! Updateme
They want OP to raise the child as her own but you can be sure they'll go all heavy parents to keep OP in line with disgusting BF's strictures. What a toad the BF is, and that's an insult to toads.
Be prepared to have that baby dropped on your doorstep. My little step-sister did that to my dad (her mom had passed already) and then did it to my dad *again* with a second child. She has since passed (OD) and my dad went through hell figuring out someone to legally take over when he turned 75 and had to admit that he was no longer physically capable of taking care of two young kids by himself.
ARE YOU INSANE??? They are against using birth control. In other words, this won't be the first nor the last time they show up at your door to take responsibility for these two! If you don't protest now, you'll end up being a daycare center. You are a good mother precisely because you know that taking responsibility for your daughter will ruin her life even more. Being a good parent is not always easy but I hope you understand that this is when your daughter needs to get hurt to learn. Wait patiently because she may come back to you. But never put a shield on her against the consequences.
This is called coercive control, and it is actually a serious criminal offense. Please contact a women's support group for information on how to proceed, and possibly the police as well. I'm sorry you're going through this
I suspect she will show up on your doorstep with a baby in arms. At that point, I would indicate to her that if she is unable to care for the baby that it needs to be put in foster care. If you accept responsibility for this baby, she will simply show up ten months later with another one for you to raise.
I hope you don’t get sucked in down the road and you make sound boundaries so your daughter doesn’t come back in a few years to drop off her kid and run.
Pretty wild that a trans person is saying abortion is a sin. None of this is anything like what you're going to hear from any healthy LGBT community, who are quite careful to make sure not to support people in delusional or antisocial behavior. Definitely get therapy, sounds like your kid has some serious mental health problems if they're being influenced by whatever wackos put these ideas into their head. You're going to need support in coping with this madness. NTA by a country mile. You are in no way "abusing" your kid by refusing to take responsibility for their bad choices.
> abortion is a sin But Premarital sex is no longer a sin. Honoring thy Mother and Father is no longer a Commandment. Lots of new information.
>None of this is anything like what you're going to hear from any healthy LGBT community, who are quite careful to make sure not to support people in delusional or antisocial behavior. Thank you and yes, I don't want to minimize my daughter's role in it but the hard anti-abortion thing surprised me too. A lot of what they said contradicted itself. It felt like I was sitting across from two people who were in their own wacko bubble. I know it's not a LGBT thing. I wish someone from their community would knock some sense into them, if its even possible at this point.
You already said you don’t want to raise another baby. Just because they changed the label to grandchild and not sibling makes no difference. Your daughter and her partner are both assholes who need anger management and therapy. The partner is an abusive control freak who has no business being a parent let alone in a relationship. They see your daughter as easy prey. Stand by what you say and don’t agree to raising the baby for a second. All you need to do is make sure one way or another that your daughter has a safe zone when she finally leaves her abuser. But she needs to figure out what is best for the baby and if she needs “fixed” being a parent isn’t what is best. And honestly, she doesn’t need “fixed” because of you or “fixed” in general. She needs help to get better because of her choices. Like therapy and probably medication to help. I hope she wakes up soon from being under the spell.
Wacko bubble indeed is a perfect way to call this. My two cents is that you stay out of it. Care for yourself first. Your daughter might be in a weird culty thing, but I don’t see it as her being forced nor coerced into it. She is an adult that took bad decisions that led to this and doesn’t have the courage to ask or seek for proper help. Also, honestly I find it difficult to believe there were no drugs involved.
Queer and NB here. POS folks come in all shapes, sizes, colors, genders, religions, and sexual preferences. Unfortunately it isn't likely that things are going to change even if the entirety of the alphabet Mafia shows up with glitter cannons. They're still going to be pieces of shit. There are no membership cards to revoke. All we can do is say, "We don't claim them."
I kinda wanna see the alphabet mafia show up with glitter cannons though!
*two people who were in their own wacko bubble* They are. Their thoughts are disordered. They are arguing that your daughter's pregnancy is somehow your fault. You didn't force her to have unprotected sex Or even encourage it. You gave her the tools she needed to find the right birth control method. You didn't take away her agency over her own body.
Unfortunately they’re not worried about being logically consistent, they’re worried about having power and control. I know you would love to kick SD in the nads (I would too) but your daughter is in a mindset to agree with him and be influenced with him so they’re both looking for that control, and to be right. Don’t give them an inch, because this bullshit is designed to force you to give them everything they want, one inch at a time. Decide what you’re ok doing for daughter only, if anything, and stick to it. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.
Like all communities the queer community has its nut bags who feel completely comfortable denying other people bodily autonomy (especially when convenient for coercion and control). I suspect that if it would make OP/Daughter easier to control abortion would be back on the table. Also I expected of Sperm Doner is transfeme they will force Daughter to assume an surrogate identity for the child with SD being the "real" mother. Which makes me wonder if Daughters gender identity is being manipulated....
NTA Stay strong because in a few years CPS is going to be knocking on your door to raise that kid and likely a couple others if they are against BC, I would bet money on that. I feel bad for that poor kid, here is hoping mother nature decides this pregnancy is not viable.
NTA. These two sound wildly entitled. Everyone is right who says you'll wind up with a day care full of kids from these two if you cave in. What they need is the harsh reality of trying to support themselves and a child. They won't grow up otherwise. They've also built some fantasy narrative where they're queer victims and their families are straight monsters. They're using guilt and shame to push the narrative. They want to do what they want, live how they please, and have no responsibility or means of support. If you allow this, you'll be supporting them for the rest of their lives. Don't do it.
I would suggest calling cps now so they Can start a file keep screenshots of all text messages and pray that cps does their job
Commenting on Update: My NB Daughter Wants Me To Raise Her Baby...at the very least, create an email subfolder, email yourself all documentation and logs of behavior w/ dates, times, screenshots, etc. and keep a file that can’t be accessed or destroyed
You're still NTA. Geeze, your daughter's partner sounds a lot like my ex's partner. Super aggressive, in your face, what we say is right, and you're an AH if you don't believe it bs. (My ex's new partner is also MTF trans.) The red flags are massive, and you're also right to feel like sperm-donor's behavior is controlling. However, right now, they're doing a damn good job at painting you the villain in both their eyes eyes, and that won't change anytime soon. Sperm donor has likely been whispering in your daughter's ear for a while, slowly preying on things your daughter has been too afraid to talk to you about or wasn't sure she wanted herself. Speaking from experience, it is okay to step away. It's okay to go seek therapy and healing. Take the NC from your daughter as a sign to take care of yourself. They're both adults, and they can be mad you won't play free child care. They can figure it out. You can be the villain in their story and still live your life.
I know I gave you advice on your original post. I am a mom of three daughters. They are in their early mid 30s now. So I am honestly probably just holding up to be your mom if I had had you pretty young. And here’s what I’m gonna tell you… As hard as it is for you, you now have to back off. The only thing you can do is let your daughter know one final time that you love her and that you will be there for her. That had she communicated some of those things to you, you certainly would’ve taken an action. But you can’t be expected to know what she doesn’t tell you. so she does not get to blame you for things. She didn’t tell you about. But that being said, you will always be there for her. She simply needs to reach out to you and let you know what she needs. The caveat is… Sperm donor is not welcome in your house or in your life or anywhere near you at any time. So if she involves him, she should not contact you. If what she needs is you to raise her daughter or give her money for her daughter, she needs to not contact you. But if she ever wraps her head around the fact that she is now an adult, and making adult decisions, and decides to leave him, because he is incredibly toxic for her, you will be there in a heartbeat. But again, it involves sperm donor. On top of that, you can apologize if you truly missed something. Have actually apologize to my daughters many times, the beginning when they were younger, and their dad walked out. I let them know I was going to do my best, but I am human, and I will make mistakes. And if I do, and I hurt you, I really am sorry. But I am doing my best. As an adult, you feel there are things that I should’ve done differently, you can certainly let me know. But you cannot use that to blame me for your in action on course correcting your life. Because again, I’m human. I don’t care what interaction you have with other humans, people are going to hurt your feelings or you are going to feel not hurt or you’re going to feel that certain things in your life continue to affect you. But as an adult, when you recognize that, you don’t get to sit back on your ass and just blame everything in your life on it. You’re an adult. Now you have to take charge of your life and get some help to work through it. Because regardless of me, trying my best, I know they are going to be some things that stick with you Because I still have things from grandma. And I am well aware grandma did her best. I am well aware she loved me. I am well aware that a lot of her choices were informed by the mores of the day. As an adult, when I understand those things but I see something still affecting me years later, it’s my responsibility to now try to fix the behaviors that I am exhibiting that don’t serve me well. And all of that is true of your daughter. I know it’s super hard, but all she wants right now is to play the blame game. She wants to try to guilt you into giving her things and money and raising her child and someone because it’s all your fault. I’m here to tell you, it’s not. I am here to tell you that you cannot read. If she didn’t want birth control, she should’ve said so. If she wanted hormones, she needed to say so. Because there’s no way for you to know this. Could you possibly have been more involved? Maybe? Because I know we don’t have the entire story. But I can tell you that my daughters did let me know things they needed. I did ask questions. And there are so things are telling me as adults that they just weren’t comfortable with at the time. And that’s OK. So time for you to stop. Stop reaching out. Stop your contact. Start making a life of your own. That does not involve your daughter. Let her know the door is always open to her and her alone, but not for her to just leave and move in with her child and think you’re going to pay for everyone and raise everyone. Because that’s not a thing. She is making her decision, and now she’s going to have to live with it. And if they continue this shitty lifestyle, your responsibility is going to be making sure your grandchild is safe. The two of them sound like they sort of off the deep end and in La La Land. So you need to keep an eye from afar. You need to keep records of your interactions. You can watch on social media and screenshot anything that is up concerned. And if you finally feel enough, busy enough, then you contact CPS for the grandchild. I’m sorry you’re going through this. You’re not the first to do so, you won’t be the last. Your daughter is not the first to make decisions that are influenced by a toxic personality at a very vulnerable time in her life. She is not the first one to swallow the Kool-Aid. Hopefully she will find her way out. But if you try to force it, she will dig her heels in deeper. So step back. Live your own life. Be prepared for a possible call in the middle of the night and have a strategy as far as what you’re going to do if you get it. And absolutely continue your counseling
Honestly, you should send the post to your child. Let them read the comments. They are incredibly selfish for expecting you to raise their child. If they are old enough to have a child, they are old enough for the responsibilities. I had my first child at 21 and there is no way I would’ve ever expected my parents to raise my child. It’s even worse because of who the father is.
I read the original post when you posted it.. your still NTA by the way and they both have some growing up to do. Focus on yourself and just hope your child will get her/their act together before the baby comes. Sending hugs.
NTA. Your daughter has fallen victim to many things. She’s fallen victim to the trap of questioning your own gender identity for no reason. If you are legitimately non-binary (as I am), you either know something is off and seek out the answer or you don’t care (me again), and just move life on. It sounds more like angst upon angst upon angst, and this topic is just the stupid hill her young adult brain chose to die on. She’s also fallen victim to the toxic notions that you owe things like gender-affirming care, especially when you haven’t had it requested. For those families fortunate enough to have both the money and the inclination to support hormonal therapies, this is wonderful, but that’s not most families. It’s expensive and often the state and medical community fight you every step of the way. And she’s fallen victim to a juvenile abuser. Someone who has an idea of what is needed to abuse someone, but not mature enough in the practice to be good at it. So they overplay their hand on everything and make themselves obvious to outsiders. There’s nothing you can or should do. She’s an adult, she’s made choices, she now gets to live with them. You will feel horrible about it, here just really isn’t anything you can do. You spent 18 years getting her here. Any choices she makes are, quite literally, her baby now. One way or another, she now gets to deal with the consequences of her actions. Keep watch on things, and be ready to act. If they don’t care for the child, be ready to call child services and prevent a problem. Be ready to call the police if there is abuse or violence. But don’t be the bail-out point. This is going to lift off, fly low, and crash super hard. When that happens, she’ll do some learning and maybe remove her head from her ass. Nothing you do can prevent this from happening. Anything you try to do will only push her further into doing what she wants. It’s horrifying, but you have to let her sleep in the bed that she made, because she’s not going to permit anything else. Just be ready to pull the trigger and get the authorities involved before anything reaches a tragic level. And yes, she’ll be pissed…but she’ll get it once she stops being a moron. Some people take advice, some people choose violence. Buckle up.
The worst thing about taking their baby in would be setting a precedent. You took one, so you can take all the offspring the irresponsible (nonbc) sperm-doner and your daughter can pop out. The only reasonable course of action would be to maintain your present refusal to take in the baby. They need to understand the consequences of creating and delivering into the world a human baby. That includes possible consequences with governmental agencies like CPS if they fail to take reasonable care of the child. Sounds like sperm-doner wants to prove his manhood by siring a bunch of babies -- instead of proving his manhood by taking care of business in a mature way. He's not a real man --just all talk and ejaculate. Good luck with your counseling. Always helpful to have a trained, neutral party to discuss those difficult problems in life.
I highly doubt he’ll stick around long after the birth and daughter will come back running for help. I suggest you write down what you want to see from her before you ever let her live with you again. She’s an adult making adult decision with a child like mind and that needs to stop. It’s time for you to let her grow up and learn that life has consequences for bad decisions. I also suggest that you maybe consider contacting CPS so they can get her a social worker that can watch out for this baby from day 1 of it’s birth because I feel like this is a disaster waiting to happen. Especially if they decide that they don’t want you involved at all. NTA.
NTA. Look into teletherapy. Might be free, or low-cost, and I've found it to be more available.
Agree. Psychology today.com has a good search feature by telehealth/insurance/availability
I feel like this person would say whatever they need to say at any given time to achieve their desired goals. I'm sorry you're going through such a hard situation.
They deserve to be charged with child abandonment
You would be a bad mother IF you enabled that nutjob behavior. Yeah she is in a cult, and there is nothing you can do. Anything you do will push her further. At this point just tell her to take care and try to have as fewer babies as posible, as she will be raising them alone. Then let her go.
“You’re terrible and awful and caused me so much pain- here raise my baby.” Did you ask the sperm donor why he didn’t use a condom? Or take any precautions? What is their definition of “fixed”? What time frame do they think it will take to correct whatever requires her to not raise her kid? Or him for that matter. If both sets of parents are terrible, well by golly I guess they need to choose to not be as terrible and step up. I would never accept any blame for her choices that led to her pregnancy. You didn’t force her to have unprotected sex.
I’m sorry but a trans person saying an abortion is a sin is the wildcard of the day. There’s a lot of biblical text that indicates a distain for homosexual relationships but not one single mention of abortion. Love the misogyny there.
I'll say it and take the lumps; I hope nature takes it's course, because any baby coming from these two train wrecks will have a messed up life. OP you're still NTA here.
You're NTA. Both your daughter and the sperm donor sound like sick people who need help and therapy. They frankly sound like narcissists, and there's no winning with a narcissist. They are bound to be awful parents themselves and I feel truly sorry for this child. That said, you have no obligations here, in fact if I were you I'd strongly consider just cutting ties for your own mental health. It is very much like she's joined a cult and I'm so sorry, I simply don't see a future in this relationship, though of course that's ultimately your call. The thing about cult members is that you can't help them until they want to help themselves. As long as they're into the cult, you'll find getting through to them to be completely impossible. I hope you seek some therapy too, this must be a lot to handle. Good luck to you, I'm so sorry.
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Seems like he wanted to get her pregnant to bind her to him but doesn’t want to actually raise the baby
Nta. Change the locks and let then figure it out on their own. Do not give them anything. If you are such an evil monster then they shouldn't want anything from you anyways. This is one life lesson she needs to fully learn on her own. If you worry about the baby you can report them to children services now. They will start investing when the child is born. She won't learn a thing unless you allow her to hit rock bottom. It's not nice but it is the best thing you can do for her in the long run
NTA - Your daughter is 18. I'd tell her to get out. She needs to learn that actions have consequences. Letting a man stick his penis in you has a consequence.
NTA. So sperm donor thinks abortion is a sin (insert eye roll) and that you are basically a horrible mother, *but* at the same time, you're the most appropriate caretaker for the baby? Who tf does this person think they are? I know idiots come in all ages, but it is glaringly obvious that this person is young and dumb. They don't have enough life experience to be spouting opinions like these. Everyone thought they knew it all at 18, then we grow up and realize we didn't know shit. OP, I'm so sorry your family is dealing with this. I can't even imagine. I hope your kid comes to their senses. I hope you vibe well with your counselor. Maybe try calling them back and (if you're interested) let them know to give you a call if they have cancellations so you can be seen sooner. It'll be nice to have an outside, unbiased opinion and someone to help guide you through these big emotions.
To daughter: "I will be here for you when you realize you are in a manipulative (which is a form of abuse) relationship and need to leave. I love you. Also, I am getting a pet kangaroo and I want you to raise it for me."
NTA. Just be prepared for when CPS calls you.
NTA - these 2 are a huge part of why some people cannot take trans/nb/etc people serious because they have fallen into the loud out of touch faction of the LGBTQ+ and are so wrapped up in their victimhood and self importance that logic is just gone. They make me embarrassed to be trans. You have done nothing wrong please remember that. And its tough because god knows that baby needs to be removed from that situation asap, they are obviously in no mental state to raise a child. But if you take it then they have won.... So what do you do? I dont envy the choice you have to make here.
Your daughter definitely is to blame as well. Put that baby up for adoption and fuck your daughter honestly NTA
There are going to be some not great consequences, whatever you decide to do. But that is because your daughter isn’t making good decisions right now. You’re just going to have to be prepared to pivot if needed, but forgive yourself now as you are doing the best you can since you can’t see the future.
Just want to say that agreeing to adopt the baby and then giving it up for adoption to someone else would be a shitty thing to do. But I would not encourage you to adopt at all. She needs to figure this out on her own!
You are NTA. The donor is for sure calling all the shots and your daughter is probably so scared being pregnant she is going along with it. They are adults and need to take responsibility for their actions. This wasn’t them asking it was demanding. I’m sorry you have to do this but be there for your daughter if she needs help, because she probably does but she isn’t listening. Gently let her know you want to have a calm conversation with her alone and tell her in no uncertain terms that you are not the child’s mother she is and if she wants to go out and fuck around like an adult she will have to figure it out like one. Tell her you want the baby in your life but you raised your kid already she gets to make the decision for hers. But you are not going to raise it. Also if you can ask open ended questions to get her to talk about her donor and the situation.
Do not cave. I feel for the baby. But babies can be adopted. Too many times older kids just end up in foster care. What happens if something happens to you a few years down the road? What happens to that choice then? Let her block you. Talk to not just a counselor but to an attorney. Someone needs to know what this girl and her jerk sperm donor are up to in order to keep that baby safe. Who keeps insurance on her?
You are NTA, and I know you will be there, in the background, waiting for when your child needs help, but please change your locks so that she doesn't have keys. If her and Sperm donor move in, it is going to be he'll getting them out and they will just take off and leave the baby expecting you to take care of it, all the while calling you a horrible parent.
NTA. I had a neice who's bf convinced her to get off BC and had her convinced the hormones were messing with her health and fitness. She immediately got pregnant. It's not uncommon, alas. Stay strong, we're all rooting for you!
Don’t listen to your friends, you know what’s right for you. My hope is that 5 years from now she can’t believe she ever listened to his nonsense.
NTA. This situation is horrific. It sounds like your daughter is having serious mental health problems and this guy is manipulating her for sex.
Sperm donor is 100% abusing your child and brainwashing them and there's nothing you can legally do since they're an adult. Are you friends with any of their friends' parents? If you are, you might be able to get more of an insight on their relationship dynamic through them. It's an incredibly delicate situation and I hope your child makes it out as unscathed as possible because he sounds unhinged.
trans and believes abortion is a sin? the reality check they’re going to get can’t come soon enough.
NAT - I had a different but similar situation where my daughter listened to someone else who poisoned her against me. They managed to alienate her from her entire family. She called me at 18 and told me I starved her because I was a single mother and she had to eat cheap food (she had 3 meals a day with what I could afford). I was dirt pour working an entry level position that paid crap and did my best. The way I handled it was to tell her I loved her and that I was there for her if she ever wanted to talk down the road but for now, it was best if we didn't speak until she was ready to speak and not just attack. It destroyed me and if I hadn't had the most amazing and loving man in my life, I probably wouldn't be here now. I honestly didn't expect much until her 30s but was surprised when she reached out about 3 years later wanting to talk. And then another year when she called saying she wanted a divorce from that person. Many years later and we have an amazing relationship and she acknowledges that the person she ran off and married at 18 was a narcissist. She regularly tells me that she appreciates everything I tried did when she was young and that I did the best I could with my limited income. It hurts but sometimes we have to let them make their mistakes and just make sure they know we love them and will be there later if they need us. But that we can't save them from their lives and choices. If she is old enough to get pregnant, she is old enough to deal with the consequences of her actions. I hope she appreciates you someday.
>She is not stupid. I think she’s love blinded. Re-read your original post where your daughter wanted you to ask if she was a girl every single day, look at the company she keeps, think about the nonsense she spews about working, ponder all the decisions she's made that have led up to this point. Your daughter isn't stupid, she is an idiot of the highest order.
NTA. Your child needs to deal with their life choices. The best thing you can do for the fetus is not bail these to idiots out of their mess. Hopefully they will give the baby up for adoption.
First change your locks. I feel like sperm donor might just drop off the baby sometime. Second if they bring you the baby against your will maybe she needs to be put in the foster system. It's not a great system but it very well could be better than the baby staying with sperm donor. Not sure what the law is regarding that though. Might be completely illegal
If they think using hormonal BC as wrong then why not wrap that dick up with a condom? Come on partner, take some responsibility for your actions. Nah
NTA and I seriously doubt your daughter is actually non-binary or in any other way gender-questioning, and is instead being led along by sperm donor. I don’t even know if I believe sperm donor is transgender. The whole thing sounds completely mental and they both sound like a couple of young people who have been spending WAY too much time on the internet and navel-gazing rather than being productive members of society.