I called it on OP's original post: Big sisters trying to play mummy isn't always wanted, needed, or appreciated by the younger siblings (even if a parent is deceased.)
OP's wife saying that her sister needs her doesn't necessarily reflect the thoughts and feelings of a woman with a husband and other family members around.
Exactly, inserting herself into someone else’s life where it wasn’t wanted. My wife had a friend that tried to do that to us when our first was born and we shut it down right away. She was super intrusive and overbearing when she had no business. She cut us out of her life right after.
As someone who tried to play mum to my younger sister for 1-2 years after a messy divorce, I can 100% confirm this. Ruined our relationship more than anything, relationship was 100000000 times better after I started treating her like a sister/friend! Now she's one of my maids of honour & someone I go to first about things, we're very close now💖
Edit: grammar
I did the same when my parents divorced! But my younger brother kinda appreciated it. I also guess it went over better since I didn't act as an extra parent but more extra grownup. Even tho I was myself only a pree-teen when it started. He thought it was annoying when he was a teenager and I a young adult. But has told me that as annoying as it might have been he appreciated it since it was really needed. We have a good relationship today even tho my brother's have a better relationship with each other than me. Which is fine I took a role that was needed and I'm not short-changed for it.
It sounds like new wife is dealing with ALOT of unprocessed trauma from her mother dying and her becoming a mother figure for her little sister. I hope she can deal with that and learn to live her life.
Honestly I wonder if she is literally driving herself crazy because she doesn't have anyone that really needs her like that anymore. She doesn't know what to do with herself, and can't accept that her siblings are fine without her help. I understand how she feels if that's the case. I drove myself and my partner crazy when I was coming to terms with my own issues. I honestly didn't realize that's what my problem was till my partner pointed it out himself. I just thought I was going crazy. She will be ok OP, I think counseling will really help her & you too.
I fully anticipated her being an insufferable mother-in-law if ever she has a child that manages to get married (despite the upbringing he'd have from her).
Why are we discounting therapy before we give it a chance? OP wanted to marry her, so he must find value in her. She's not a broken Barbie you take back to the store.... if you love someone, you should try therapy. Yeah, some people, often with specific dx, will try and use therapy like that, but you don't know these people. Why would you plant this seed of doubt when she may genuinely want to get better?
The family enmeshment issues aren't easily addressed with some "counseling" and these appear deeply rooted, almost certainly much more going on. The next level is she lies to you to placate you but inside is still deeply enmeshed. The behavior is already way off the deep end, and she does not see it, but only sees your dissatisfaction, which is NOT a foundation for fundamental evolution.
I got my license before church service, as that was the only service.
If they are not even married, why oh why are we having this drama?! Leave. Be done. No muss, no fuss.
And serious kudos to Marie for telling the rest of the family they can’t come unless Tonya leaves. That’s genius because it puts pressure from the family on her to scram.
I would never want to marry this type of person, but if OP wants to I’m sure progress could be made in counseling.
The fact that the sister said anyone who even let Tonya stay with them wouldn't be allowed to see the baby... Tonya has been ruining this for the sister and her husband. It would'nt surprise me if OP updates and say's sister called the cops to have Tonya removed from her home. Tonya sounds overly obsessed with her sister. If I were OP I wouldn't want her to be the mother of my children.
Marie had also told her to go on her honeymoon. She didn't want to go home after being told to leave. Now Tonya wants to know why OP is having second thoughts...Really? She can't think of any reasons?
> no ability to reflect on how their own actions affect others and the consequences that come with it
Why would OP want to attach himself to someone as mentally unbalanced as this?
Seriously. This is more than just her failing to prioritize her husband. The sister kicked her out and clearly doesn't want Tonya pulling her My Beloved Smother act anymore, either. She can't let go.
>Marie also told all her relatives that if Tonya was staying with them they weren't allowed over until she left.
So what did Tonya do to warrant this? Because that looks a lot like a "fuck off and stay gone" to me. There was some kind of blow up - likely after a long period of tension and Tonya stepping all over boundaries.
Honestly, it's looking a lot like Tonya wasn't needed or wanted in the first place, but she's been her sister's "mom" for so long that Tonya doesn't know how to seperate herself from that role. Frankly, she needs serious therapy and distance from Marie in order to work out who she is.
I wasn't Parentified, but I grew up thinking that I'd be a carer for my disabled twin... until she died in an accident. It took a lot of time and effort to work out who I was outside of that.
Being bullied as a kid, I was stuck on the idea that I had to be useful in order to be liked, and unlearning that attitude - and learning that doing everything myself was actually counterproductive to other people's growth - also took time and therapy
I wish both of them the best in their lives, but the best thing for OP to do is get that annulment.
If Tonya decides she's able to commit to marriage in a year, then they can re-marry, but if she needs more time or they don't go ahead with it, separating will be a lot harder then than now.
> she's been her sister's "mom" for so long that Tonya doesn't know how to seperate herself from that role.
The problem with this theory is that actual mothers don't behave the way that Tonya is behaving. Well, at least not normal mothers.
So the issue isn't that Tonya can't separate herself from the role. The issue is that Tonya has taken on a role that nobody (including the sister) wants her to take. This is a different situation as it is a personality flaw that will have consequences on OP. Is Tonya a control freak? Is Tonya a narcissist who loves being seen as a 'savior'?
Hence why "mom" was in inverted commas.
She was never her sister's mother, but her head got messed up from thinking that she had to be, and now she has to face the music
Actual mothers get a chance to live life and figure out who they are, separate from being a mother before they take on the responsibility.
In a lot of instances where it essentially winds up with a sibling parenting, they don't know anything else because they lose so much of the time where they should have been discovering who they are to taking on someone else's responsibilities.
A lot of adult soldiers are capable of reintegrating into society afterwards. Child soldiers who have been saved usually don't have that luxury. There are a lot of roles in life where if you're forced into them younger than you should have been, it can leave you damaged.
Not that it is the sister's fault, or OP's, but OP's missus probably needs therapy to unpack why she's acting that way and try and restructure her thinking more healthily.
Imagine being that delusional? Someone kicks you out and says “get out I don’t want your help!” And you think “so she’s saying I need to move right nearby to help!”
Delusional, maybe?
However I don’t think people understand the mental toll it takes on a person when they are parentified especially at a young age.
I was cooking for, cleaning for, feeding, changing and bathing my younger siblings by time I was 7 years old. By time I was a young adult myself I knew that the one single that I was good at was being a “mom” and taking care of someone. It was all I ever did.
It took me honestly until my 30s to step and realize that my relationship with my younger siblings weren’t healthy for either of us.
I couldn’t do anything for myself or my partner without making sure that they were fine first and they couldn’t make a decision without speaking to me about it first, even with small things.
It is definitely hard.
It's very revealing here that Tonia took over Marie till the baby came home, and that as soon as the baby came home Marie told her to leave. Even more revealing is that Tonia tried to stay, and Marie had to evoke her husband's wishes as well as her own to get Tonia to leave.
The fact is, that not only did Tonia prioritize Marie's needs over your honeymoon, but that her "help" was actually interference and unwanted. The one who needed for Tonia to go to Marie was Tonia, not Marie. If your marriage has any chance of success, Tonia has to work out her feelings towards Marie, and learn to let her go. As long as Tonia's self-worth is invested in being a helper to Marie (whether Marie wants her help or not), your marriage is doomed.
I suspect that Tonya has built her personality as Marie's substitute mother. She needs therapy to readjust her mindset and behavior before losing OP and her sister.
It's more than that tho, because even IF Tonya was the mom, her behavior was still too much.
I agree she needs therapy, and now so does their marriage.
OP should read up on narcissism and especially the covert and communal type. Some narcissists get their supply from being seen as helpers, and they may go to great lengths to force their help onto someone, especially family members they've decided are weak and lacking. Their need to be seen as the Great Helper can make them ignore everyone else's wishes. Unfortunately, to the outside world they may seem like the ultimate altruistic person.
And they are a pain to live with because you start the relationship thinking they are such a good person.Then you realize it is all about them getting praise .NOT about really being there to help where one requests help.
And now he is going to waste one whole year of his life to find out what is already painfully obvious to the rest of us. I mean she has to go to counseling to convince herself to spend time with this guy. My God, it shouldn't have to be that hard and certainly not in the "honeymoon phase."
given how bad this woman is I doubt he'll have to wait long, the second something happens with that sister whether bad or good trust me she will be gone like a fart in the wind.
Whether sis needs or wants to help at all. It sounds like she was massively messed up by being parentified when her actual mother died. Tonya is so wrapped up in her "mother" role, that she imposes herself, even when the sister refuses it. Dats fukked up.
Yeah , it is and sadly I think its been allowed to grow and fester so long that I really doubt even therapy could fix it, I think the only way Tonya is going to get better if her sister cuts her off as well as op and her family.
It's possible to stop.. she needs a family of her own. And therapy. I skipped the therapy and thankfully still managed to come out the other side. But it took having a strong husband that helped by putting his foot down on a lot of things😔 I wish everyone on here wouldn't write her off so quickly:(
> it took having a strong husband that helped by putting his foot down on a lot of things😔 I wish everyone on here wouldn't write her off so quickly
Most people are not interested in marrying an emotional infant who they need to have to put their foot down and teach. They want a partner in marriage.
Don't ask people to 'save' others. Marriage is difficult enough without choosing to go into it with an unbalanced partner who may or may not be interested in doing the work to resolve her issues.
I remember reading a post where the OP explained that when she made those last efforts to save the relationship, it wasn't because she really thought her ex would "see the light" if she just gave him *one* more chance. It was so that she could honestly say that *she* tried everything to make the relationship work, that it really was unsalvageable. Because then she'd have no guilt or regret over leaving it behind.
This could be what he's doing. He wants to see with his own eyes that she *won't* make the effort, because then he'll *know*. He won't have doubts whether she could have changed, and be far less likely to linger on what-if's.
He should take this year to properly work out his feelings
I get what you're saying but one year is a long ass time. Especially to stay in a relationship where you have to practically beg your partner to spend time with you. He shouldn't give it more than 3-6 months IF THAT.
It's also long enough that she most likely won't be able to "fake" making an effort. Most people can *pretend* to improve for a few months without too many problems, but keeping it up for a *year*? That's harder.
I doubt he's going to just sit around for a year. If she isn't trying, he'll probably leave sooner.
A year is a long time, but right now her sister has cut her off completely, so she *can’t* interfere or be a martyr. It’s also a reasonable time to engage in and make progress in therapy. If OP loves her, and presumably he does, it’s a generous but time limited option.
And the bad thing is, HER SISTER doesn't even want her around! She treats her sister like a 5 year old and can't take a hint that she's grown up now and needs to live her own life, leaving Tonya free to live hers!
It is possible to want to get married and have unhealthy family attachments at the same time. He’s being generous in giving her a year to figure it out because therapy should’ve helped way before that.
She sounds to me like she can't let go. She's spent so many years of her life being the protector and provider of her sister. She sacrificed a lot for her and got used to putting her own wants last. She thinks she's still needed 100% by her sister in every capacity. I'm sure mentally she knows her sister is a married, capable adult who isn't alone but she's not emotionally there yet and needs to work through this in therapy.
At this point I would've called it all off... what other signs does OP need? OP needs to stop wasting his time and life on a woman who doesn't want to be with him...maybe only when the rest of the world is dead and he's the last man on earth...
Poor sister who just had a baby and has to deal with her overbearing sister who should have been on honeymoon. If OP and her don’t work you just know she is going to cling even more
Exactly! She’s a runaway bride! This poor man should just walk away. Tonya has issues. Even her sister kicked her out! Even after being kicked out she wants to stay in an Airbnb. Yikes! Tonya is freaking clueless.
Lol. Marinara flags...
OP, WTF DOES SHE NEED A YEAR TO DECIDE?
Are you insane? In a year, an annulment will not be available to you. Maybe you'll have sex, she'll get pregnant, and then you're stuck with this WHACKO! Dear God, her sister threw her out.
I don't know who's smoking what, but you need to stop normalizing dysfunctionality.
I suggest you annul the marriage. Then, if she wishes, she can seek extensive therapy. Her, not you. If she ever leaves Wonderland, perhaps the two of you can revisit a relationship. Until then--run and hide.
The not so reading between the lines is that’s it’s not a year for her to decide, it’s a year for her to get therapy so that she’s in a place where she can make more rational decisions
Maybe he just needs a year to get his head around it. If he loved her enought to want to marry her then it's hard to just turn those feelings off. But in reality he may not need the whole 12 months.
It sounds to me like the wife has a dependency complex based on the original post where it was described that she raised the SIL like a parent. Something that likely has transpired is that the SIL is now actually healthily independent since she has a husband, home, and new family. OP's wife is feeling redundant and like she's not needed, which in fact she isn't. I'm betting that OP's wife has overblown SIL's situation based on her need to feel like SIL still needs her, even though SIL clearly was telling OP's wife to go on the honeymoon. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a post before too long from SIL asking if she's the AH for setting hard boundaries for the sister who raised her.
Do OP and Tonya both understand a lot of that counseling has to be about why Tonya cannot let her sister, who's married with a baby and supportive husband and in-laws, be her own person? That's the biggest problem and it sounds like Marie sees it as a problem, too.
I'm glad Marie is instilling boundaries since it seems your wife has a problem following them. Hopefully, therapy will help! I hope for a positive update in the future
The fact that the sister kicked her out shows how overbearing & unnecessary her presence was. It sounds like this support could've been given over a long distance. The sister isn't a single mom. She has a husband & husband's family. Did wife even ask if Sister needed/wanted her there, or did she just show up? I am 100% for supporting family, but I ask if they need/want me there. Helping can turn into overbearing very quickly. Hopefully, counseling helps because it sounds like she has some form of dependency on her sister or is one of those people who needs someone to need them.
Which is scary, considering how easy it would be to replace her now grown sister with children. Let’s all take a guess at how well she’ll do at allowing children to grow up, mature, and become independent…
One of my childhood friends has a mother who didn't want her kids to grow up. My friend's little sister was always a good student and highly motivated, but her mother discouraged her from applying to universities, and eventually the sister lost her motivation.
The kids are now 37 and 35, both living with mom still. Formerly highly motivated sister never got a college degree and works part time at a church.
I am the youngest and around my junior-senior years my mom suddenly started resisting my growing independence. We had some awful fights. I couldn’t understand why she wouldn’t let me do things that my siblings had done. It was a mystery.
40 years later, looking back, it’s obvious. I don’t think it was conscious but she was trying to stave off the empty nest. She had a really hard time after I left for college. She might even have been clinically depressed. Thankfully, my dad retired shortly after and they moved back to their hometown. I think the process of physically relocating and reconnecting with family and old friends, broke her out of her rut and her depression evaporated.
Maybe the combination of Marie’s strong rejection and OP’s ultimatum will finally get through to Tonya and she’ll do the self-work necessary to fix and strengthen their relationship.
UpdateMe!
Rule number 8 is "don't even ask"
I'm not kidding.
Other rules
1. Be kind to others
2. Don't say "meow"
7 and 8 have been covered
I prefer not to share any others for fear of being docks
Making up arbitrary rules for my kids is really fun. I'll just pick a number and say the rule as if it has been written in stone. They love it I love it and if they break rule #2 the punishment is tickles
“Do I look like a cat to you? Do you see me jumping all nimbly pimbly from tree to tree? Am I drinking milk from a saucer? Do you see me eating MICE?!”
I’d give her a lot less time. You want to put your life on hold for a year? Six months yes but not a year. I’d also suggest one if you moved out. Date if you must but wear a condom or refrain from sexual activity a kid could result in. This is worst time to have a kid,
The woman you love doesn't love you. Seriously, I don't see an ounce of love or respect from her to you in both the original post and the update. Have some self-respect and leave before you are baby-trapped or too invested/manipulated that you start to succumb to all of her delusional demands.
Which is rather understanding of you. Particularly when her sister seems to feel smothered by her.
Does she recognize that? That, while she feels the need to take care of her sister, her sister doesn't seem to want her type of support? Does she recognize that they are peers now and her sister doesn't need her quite as much?
You are taking a big chance here.
She can go to therapy and be "cured". White knuckle until she's pregnant. Or just get pregnant tomorrow.
Then you are baby trapped.
She needs to be honest with her therapist that she's obsessed with (s)mothering her sister, even though her sister clearly wants - and insists - that she back off. Does Tonya even see how she was imposing herself on her sister when her sister insisted she leave? And didn't want her there in the first place? (Marie told her to go on your honeymoon.) Tonya needs to clearly relay this entire wedding/birth/honeymoon fiasco - including Marie's reactions - to the therapist. (And good for you for going on the honeymoon solo!)
Tonya doesn't seem to get it, but until she deals with her unhealthy attachment to Marie - and gets that that's not what Marie wants - you don't stand a chance of being her top priority.
I'm glad your wife has agreed to therapy. Has she expressed any regret over missing out on your honeymoon, and is she over being angry at you for going on your own?
She should be regretful after her sister kicked her out like that. That wasn't a nice "just go home to be with your new husband," that was a brutal, "get the hell out, and anyone that helps you is banned too." She not only missed out on the honeymoon, she has jeopardized her marriage. I hope things work out, but that is one heck of a way to start a marriage.
Good luck!
UpdateMe
Well I'm glad you're not actually married. I commented on the original. I'm glad to see even her sister saw she was doing too much. Seems you are giving her more grace then she was willing to give you and for that I applaud you.
However, she has some serious codependency issues with her sister that will not be solved in a year of even intense therapy. I would suggest you start therapy as well. You need to start preparing for the inevitable end.
I hate to be the doom and gloom chick. But it wasn't until you threatened to walk away that she said she'd get help. To me that means she isn't serious. As she didn't choose it for herself. She doesn't think she has a problem. And will not be open to solutions.
I do hope I'm wrong cause it sounds like you really love her. But just be careful.
The minute her sister kicked her out is exactly when she should have realized that she needs help. Real, serious help. That she STILL didn’t is concerning. Does her own sister have to get a restraining order? Will even THAT convince her that her sister is a grown, married, independent woman (and now mother?)
It would be so easy for her to create new beings that truly do depend on her. I worry for any future child she may have, whether with OP or not…
>it wasn't until you threatened to walk away that she said she'd get help. To me that means she isn't serious. As she didn't choose it for herself. She doesn't think she has a problem
THIS!!!!!
Don’t have a kid. Your fiancee is obviously not aware that she is smothering her sister. That would make me wonder what other abnormal behavior she is going to exhibit.
I have a feeling she’s going to tell him exactly what he wants to hear and then go right back to prioritizing other people over him whether they need (or want) her or not.
man, I have a hard time taking hints, and even I would have seen this one. Mostly because it quickly became not a hint and your SIL wanted your wife to go. good luck, man, you’re going to need it.
Wait her sister fucking told her to go away, she still didn't want to come home, and you haven't ended it? *DUDE*, Trash belongs on the curb. Not in your bed.
It's funny how people think thier siblings need help with things like a new baby. You would think her sister kicking her out and telling her she wasn't needed would have been an eye opener but apparently not. I hope the counseling work for you.
NTA I think you handled it very well, well nigh flawlessly starting with going on the honeymoon and slowly things down and giving it a year. Frankly I think your partner has the greater burden to carry and I think she has treated you badly. Good for you for standing up for yourself.
If she needs 1 year to decide what she wants then she has already decided. She just wants both lives (or just the room and board) until she's forced to make a decision.
Dude, not even her sister wants her to come first. It sounds like SIL is sick of her sister playing mommy to her. Her trying to be mommy to her baby sounds like it was the final straw. Yall need more than counseling. She also needs her own therapist to deal with ehatever-the-fuck is going on in her head. Still NTA.
Also how about the update I wanted to hear about. How was the vacation? Blasting around an island on Dune buggies sounds sick.
So I may be jumping way ahead but… do you want to be a good father some day? Because if you do, I would not subject my kids to this kind of overbearing obsessive mama bear behavior. If she’s this way with her sister then omg I feel bad for any future kids she may have. Just something to consider since you hope to go the distance with her.
Sure, couples counseling will probably help her understand why you feel the way you do, but *she got angry at you after her sister had told her to go home*. To me, that means she can learn to understand why you wanted her to come home, but that doesn't mean her priorities are going to change. She has to want to make you a priority. Her sister had told her to go on her honeymoon and she still wanted to stay even though the baby'd be in the hospital. Then her sister kicked her out and she still wanted to stay in the area. You may love her, she probably loves you in her own way, but she doesn't and isn't prioritizing you. That's just not how she's built. She needs individual therapy to figure out how to live her life for herself before she's going to be able to figure out how to live life as a good partner to someone else.
If you've got the patience to wait this out, you're a better person than I am and I hope it works out for you.
HER SISTER KICKS HER OUT AND SHE STILLL HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Bro you're a clown for giving her chance after chance. She ain't choosing you over her. She will lie to you about it so you stay but she ain't gonna choose you over her. Doesn't matter how she treats her
That's how mom daughter relationships work xD
After a year, what is it from Tonya that you want?
Basically, what are the outlined changes that need to happen? She and you have to have the same goals you’re both working towards. So what are these?
I’m glad she is getting counselling. Her enmeshment with her sister is ruining her relationships, including the one most important to her. Her sister. She will drive every one away if she doesn’t get a handle on it.
Will you be doing couples counselling as well? If you want a future with her then I would also recommend this.
She has some psychological issues she needs to deal with. If you want to be with her then you both have to deal with them. She can’t just ride back in after a year to pick things up with you because you will be so far behind her. You need to be on the same path walking together.
Sorry OP, you are gonna waste the next year of your life waiting for a basket case to change. She will put on a good act for you, but, THE SISTER who sooooooo desperately "needed" her mommy er sister didn't want her there. You are about to hitch your wagon to a whole lot of cray cray.
NTA. But interesting take. Getting married, then having his wife take off. He comes at least in second place. I seriously don’t understand this at all. I would be out already. Give her a year… hmmm no. But good luck 🍀
I don't know what you are trying to accomplish by giving it a year.
Your brand new wife showed you that you are not (and won't be) her priority.
That honeymoon for one was something that no therapy can erase. You want her to "show improvement" and then pull the same stunt in five years?
If I were you, I would let her go free. She doesn't care about you, OP. It's time you care about yourself.
I think you should - at an appropriate time when she’s a little more settled from newborn time - talk to her sister to see what actually went on…it seems as though the sister is wanting to go low contact or no contact…you might want to find out why from the sister and not your spouse.
Okay, I admit that I’m confused.
I read the original post and I didn’t see anything in that about not being “officially” married and wanting to do it in Colorado. All you said was, “I just got married.” What is this other drama? Since when can’t the State of Iowa marry people?
As for the baby question, I’m glad for Marie that she had the backbone to shut her older sister down. It’s unfortunate, though, that she didn’t manage to get the message through to her before the issue of her honeymoon came up. But, in the end, it’s probably better that you know what her Achilles heel is and try to work on it.
You're giving your wife, the person who's supposed to put you above everyone, a YEAR to decide if she can actually prioritise you? Seriously? This situation wasn't even an emergency. She cancelled on you so easily.
Wow man. I’m so sorry. This sucks. You are being extremely generous. I wouldn’t be able to wait an entire year for someone to decide if they love me. Life’s too short. I wish you the best of luck!
I predict counseling isn't going to work. You probably are going to end up cutting your losses, but it's good to try to give it a shot. Best wishes on your actions
So her sister and her husband were even sick of her inserting herself. And then she thinks she needs to atay near by, to do what? Make sure the new parents get zero bonding time with the new baby...?! This is really telling.
OP, guard yourself. The next step here is baby trapping you to stay in control.
Wowzers, trying to rent an airbnb to be where you are explicitly not wanted. She's got some issues
I called it on OP's original post: Big sisters trying to play mummy isn't always wanted, needed, or appreciated by the younger siblings (even if a parent is deceased.) OP's wife saying that her sister needs her doesn't necessarily reflect the thoughts and feelings of a woman with a husband and other family members around.
Exactly, inserting herself into someone else’s life where it wasn’t wanted. My wife had a friend that tried to do that to us when our first was born and we shut it down right away. She was super intrusive and overbearing when she had no business. She cut us out of her life right after.
She did you a big favor.
Saviour complex? Her sister doesn't even want her there, yet she's still trying to 'save the day'... there's a dash of delusion in the mix imo too...
As someone who tried to play mum to my younger sister for 1-2 years after a messy divorce, I can 100% confirm this. Ruined our relationship more than anything, relationship was 100000000 times better after I started treating her like a sister/friend! Now she's one of my maids of honour & someone I go to first about things, we're very close now💖 Edit: grammar
I did the same when my parents divorced! But my younger brother kinda appreciated it. I also guess it went over better since I didn't act as an extra parent but more extra grownup. Even tho I was myself only a pree-teen when it started. He thought it was annoying when he was a teenager and I a young adult. But has told me that as annoying as it might have been he appreciated it since it was really needed. We have a good relationship today even tho my brother's have a better relationship with each other than me. Which is fine I took a role that was needed and I'm not short-changed for it.
It sounds like new wife is dealing with ALOT of unprocessed trauma from her mother dying and her becoming a mother figure for her little sister. I hope she can deal with that and learn to live her life.
Honestly I wonder if she is literally driving herself crazy because she doesn't have anyone that really needs her like that anymore. She doesn't know what to do with herself, and can't accept that her siblings are fine without her help. I understand how she feels if that's the case. I drove myself and my partner crazy when I was coming to terms with my own issues. I honestly didn't realize that's what my problem was till my partner pointed it out himself. I just thought I was going crazy. She will be ok OP, I think counseling will really help her & you too.
This! My brother (before the drugs and before i went NC) acted like this id be soooooo pissed.
Because op's wife is suffocating the sister and the people around her. This isn't love. This is obsession.
I fully anticipated her being an insufferable mother-in-law if ever she has a child that manages to get married (despite the upbringing he'd have from her).
Dude, Bail out now. Her sister can’t escape her, do you want to be next ?
I’d give it 6 months or less, not a year. And there better be immediate improvement on her part.
*I will go to counseling to find out how to tap dance around my husband and sister to still have everything the way I want it.*
\^\^\^This
Yeah, I’d be so done. I’m old-ER and know that life is too short to tolerate any drama.
Why are we discounting therapy before we give it a chance? OP wanted to marry her, so he must find value in her. She's not a broken Barbie you take back to the store.... if you love someone, you should try therapy. Yeah, some people, often with specific dx, will try and use therapy like that, but you don't know these people. Why would you plant this seed of doubt when she may genuinely want to get better?
The family enmeshment issues aren't easily addressed with some "counseling" and these appear deeply rooted, almost certainly much more going on. The next level is she lies to you to placate you but inside is still deeply enmeshed. The behavior is already way off the deep end, and she does not see it, but only sees your dissatisfaction, which is NOT a foundation for fundamental evolution.
The sooner they annul this, the sooner he’ll be done. This absolutely was not part of the marriage contract.
There’s no annulment needed. It was just a ceremony. They haven’t gotten their license.
I got my license before church service, as that was the only service. If they are not even married, why oh why are we having this drama?! Leave. Be done. No muss, no fuss.
Ok but they didn’t. I’m js.
And serious kudos to Marie for telling the rest of the family they can’t come unless Tonya leaves. That’s genius because it puts pressure from the family on her to scram. I would never want to marry this type of person, but if OP wants to I’m sure progress could be made in counseling.
THIS.
Sounds like a crazy MIL.
The facts that Marie kicked her out and said to back off should have been enough. I mean this sincerely—is Tonya delusional? UPDATEME
Tonya is going to smother her sister to the point that little sis will go low or no contact.
Imagine being Marie's husband
The fact that the sister said anyone who even let Tonya stay with them wouldn't be allowed to see the baby... Tonya has been ruining this for the sister and her husband. It would'nt surprise me if OP updates and say's sister called the cops to have Tonya removed from her home. Tonya sounds overly obsessed with her sister. If I were OP I wouldn't want her to be the mother of my children.
Maybe OP will finanly get that honemoon when she loses contact with her sister.
OP will finally get that honeymoon when he marries someone who truly loves him.
Sounds fun: having to hear her wail and whine all day long about her sister being ungratefull. At least the scenery should be nice though.
Yeah, Colorado has it all; Rocky Mountain Way.
Marie had also told her to go on her honeymoon. She didn't want to go home after being told to leave. Now Tonya wants to know why OP is having second thoughts...Really? She can't think of any reasons?
Some people just have no ability to think. She sounds like one of them.
It’s not “no ability to think” as much as it is no ability to *reflect on how their own actions affect others and the consequences that come with it*
> no ability to reflect on how their own actions affect others and the consequences that come with it Why would OP want to attach himself to someone as mentally unbalanced as this?
Yes, Tonya has zero self-awareness or emotional intelligence.
Not sure why did she get married in the first place and not save other people's time and effort if she is not ready to commit to OP
For the free two month solo trip... And the presents.
Seriously. This is more than just her failing to prioritize her husband. The sister kicked her out and clearly doesn't want Tonya pulling her My Beloved Smother act anymore, either. She can't let go.
>Marie also told all her relatives that if Tonya was staying with them they weren't allowed over until she left. So what did Tonya do to warrant this? Because that looks a lot like a "fuck off and stay gone" to me. There was some kind of blow up - likely after a long period of tension and Tonya stepping all over boundaries.
Honestly, it's looking a lot like Tonya wasn't needed or wanted in the first place, but she's been her sister's "mom" for so long that Tonya doesn't know how to seperate herself from that role. Frankly, she needs serious therapy and distance from Marie in order to work out who she is. I wasn't Parentified, but I grew up thinking that I'd be a carer for my disabled twin... until she died in an accident. It took a lot of time and effort to work out who I was outside of that. Being bullied as a kid, I was stuck on the idea that I had to be useful in order to be liked, and unlearning that attitude - and learning that doing everything myself was actually counterproductive to other people's growth - also took time and therapy I wish both of them the best in their lives, but the best thing for OP to do is get that annulment. If Tonya decides she's able to commit to marriage in a year, then they can re-marry, but if she needs more time or they don't go ahead with it, separating will be a lot harder then than now.
> she's been her sister's "mom" for so long that Tonya doesn't know how to seperate herself from that role. The problem with this theory is that actual mothers don't behave the way that Tonya is behaving. Well, at least not normal mothers. So the issue isn't that Tonya can't separate herself from the role. The issue is that Tonya has taken on a role that nobody (including the sister) wants her to take. This is a different situation as it is a personality flaw that will have consequences on OP. Is Tonya a control freak? Is Tonya a narcissist who loves being seen as a 'savior'?
Hence why "mom" was in inverted commas. She was never her sister's mother, but her head got messed up from thinking that she had to be, and now she has to face the music
Actual mothers get a chance to live life and figure out who they are, separate from being a mother before they take on the responsibility. In a lot of instances where it essentially winds up with a sibling parenting, they don't know anything else because they lose so much of the time where they should have been discovering who they are to taking on someone else's responsibilities. A lot of adult soldiers are capable of reintegrating into society afterwards. Child soldiers who have been saved usually don't have that luxury. There are a lot of roles in life where if you're forced into them younger than you should have been, it can leave you damaged. Not that it is the sister's fault, or OP's, but OP's missus probably needs therapy to unpack why she's acting that way and try and restructure her thinking more healthily.
I think she tried to be "mom" to the newborn, pushing the real mom out of the way.
Sounds like Tanya wouldn't let her know where near the baby.
Imagine being that delusional? Someone kicks you out and says “get out I don’t want your help!” And you think “so she’s saying I need to move right nearby to help!”
UpdateMe!
Sounds like it! UPDATEME
But OP said no more drama!! 😂
Well OP can't control it if his fiance starts the drama.
This is just the beginning
Delusional, maybe? However I don’t think people understand the mental toll it takes on a person when they are parentified especially at a young age. I was cooking for, cleaning for, feeding, changing and bathing my younger siblings by time I was 7 years old. By time I was a young adult myself I knew that the one single that I was good at was being a “mom” and taking care of someone. It was all I ever did. It took me honestly until my 30s to step and realize that my relationship with my younger siblings weren’t healthy for either of us. I couldn’t do anything for myself or my partner without making sure that they were fine first and they couldn’t make a decision without speaking to me about it first, even with small things. It is definitely hard.
It's very revealing here that Tonia took over Marie till the baby came home, and that as soon as the baby came home Marie told her to leave. Even more revealing is that Tonia tried to stay, and Marie had to evoke her husband's wishes as well as her own to get Tonia to leave. The fact is, that not only did Tonia prioritize Marie's needs over your honeymoon, but that her "help" was actually interference and unwanted. The one who needed for Tonia to go to Marie was Tonia, not Marie. If your marriage has any chance of success, Tonia has to work out her feelings towards Marie, and learn to let her go. As long as Tonia's self-worth is invested in being a helper to Marie (whether Marie wants her help or not), your marriage is doomed.
I suspect that Tonya has built her personality as Marie's substitute mother. She needs therapy to readjust her mindset and behavior before losing OP and her sister.
Yes, to the point that she’s smothering Marie, and even Marie wants her to stop.
It's more than that tho, because even IF Tonya was the mom, her behavior was still too much. I agree she needs therapy, and now so does their marriage.
And if she ever has kids with OP, she will be most overbearing mother ever. Oh dear, what a trainwreck..
I suspect that Tonya has been overbearing for a while now and now that Marie is a mom herself, she realized she has to stand up for herself.
AND Marie had to warn the whole family that whoever let Tonia stay with them weren't welcome either. What a nuisance.
OP should read up on narcissism and especially the covert and communal type. Some narcissists get their supply from being seen as helpers, and they may go to great lengths to force their help onto someone, especially family members they've decided are weak and lacking. Their need to be seen as the Great Helper can make them ignore everyone else's wishes. Unfortunately, to the outside world they may seem like the ultimate altruistic person.
And they are a pain to live with because you start the relationship thinking they are such a good person.Then you realize it is all about them getting praise .NOT about really being there to help where one requests help.
I knew damn well wife inserted herself where she wasn't wanted. This confirms it.
This is the way.
Wait, her sister kicked her out, and she STILL wasn't going to come home? Damn. Talk about your marinara flags.
Sounds like she doesn't really want to get married after all.
And now he is going to waste one whole year of his life to find out what is already painfully obvious to the rest of us. I mean she has to go to counseling to convince herself to spend time with this guy. My God, it shouldn't have to be that hard and certainly not in the "honeymoon phase."
given how bad this woman is I doubt he'll have to wait long, the second something happens with that sister whether bad or good trust me she will be gone like a fart in the wind.
Whether sis needs or wants to help at all. It sounds like she was massively messed up by being parentified when her actual mother died. Tonya is so wrapped up in her "mother" role, that she imposes herself, even when the sister refuses it. Dats fukked up.
Yeah , it is and sadly I think its been allowed to grow and fester so long that I really doubt even therapy could fix it, I think the only way Tonya is going to get better if her sister cuts her off as well as op and her family.
It's possible to stop.. she needs a family of her own. And therapy. I skipped the therapy and thankfully still managed to come out the other side. But it took having a strong husband that helped by putting his foot down on a lot of things😔 I wish everyone on here wouldn't write her off so quickly:(
> it took having a strong husband that helped by putting his foot down on a lot of things😔 I wish everyone on here wouldn't write her off so quickly Most people are not interested in marrying an emotional infant who they need to have to put their foot down and teach. They want a partner in marriage. Don't ask people to 'save' others. Marriage is difficult enough without choosing to go into it with an unbalanced partner who may or may not be interested in doing the work to resolve her issues.
I wouldn’t risk it as long as the sister is around. She’d probably neglect her own kid for her sister’s kids.
You know it.
I mean, a year goes by FAST. I would use it preparing all my ducks so that I could bolt.
I remember reading a post where the OP explained that when she made those last efforts to save the relationship, it wasn't because she really thought her ex would "see the light" if she just gave him *one* more chance. It was so that she could honestly say that *she* tried everything to make the relationship work, that it really was unsalvageable. Because then she'd have no guilt or regret over leaving it behind. This could be what he's doing. He wants to see with his own eyes that she *won't* make the effort, because then he'll *know*. He won't have doubts whether she could have changed, and be far less likely to linger on what-if's. He should take this year to properly work out his feelings
I get what you're saying but one year is a long ass time. Especially to stay in a relationship where you have to practically beg your partner to spend time with you. He shouldn't give it more than 3-6 months IF THAT.
It's also long enough that she most likely won't be able to "fake" making an effort. Most people can *pretend* to improve for a few months without too many problems, but keeping it up for a *year*? That's harder. I doubt he's going to just sit around for a year. If she isn't trying, he'll probably leave sooner.
A year is a long time, but right now her sister has cut her off completely, so she *can’t* interfere or be a martyr. It’s also a reasonable time to engage in and make progress in therapy. If OP loves her, and presumably he does, it’s a generous but time limited option.
And the bad thing is, HER SISTER doesn't even want her around! She treats her sister like a 5 year old and can't take a hint that she's grown up now and needs to live her own life, leaving Tonya free to live hers!
It is possible to want to get married and have unhealthy family attachments at the same time. He’s being generous in giving her a year to figure it out because therapy should’ve helped way before that.
She sounds to me like she can't let go. She's spent so many years of her life being the protector and provider of her sister. She sacrificed a lot for her and got used to putting her own wants last. She thinks she's still needed 100% by her sister in every capacity. I'm sure mentally she knows her sister is a married, capable adult who isn't alone but she's not emotionally there yet and needs to work through this in therapy.
At this point I would've called it all off... what other signs does OP need? OP needs to stop wasting his time and life on a woman who doesn't want to be with him...maybe only when the rest of the world is dead and he's the last man on earth...
Obviously she wants to be married in name only.
Poor sister who just had a baby and has to deal with her overbearing sister who should have been on honeymoon. If OP and her don’t work you just know she is going to cling even more
Exactly! She’s a runaway bride! This poor man should just walk away. Tonya has issues. Even her sister kicked her out! Even after being kicked out she wants to stay in an Airbnb. Yikes! Tonya is freaking clueless.
Lol. Marinara flags... OP, WTF DOES SHE NEED A YEAR TO DECIDE? Are you insane? In a year, an annulment will not be available to you. Maybe you'll have sex, she'll get pregnant, and then you're stuck with this WHACKO! Dear God, her sister threw her out. I don't know who's smoking what, but you need to stop normalizing dysfunctionality. I suggest you annul the marriage. Then, if she wishes, she can seek extensive therapy. Her, not you. If she ever leaves Wonderland, perhaps the two of you can revisit a relationship. Until then--run and hide.
They’re not legally married. They don’t need an annulment. I agree there’s no way this sinking ship needs a year, but they’re not married.
You're correct. I overlooked the one short paragraph. OP'S even better off. Just show the loon the door.
trust me shell be able to find it herself the second something inevitably happens I wouldn't worry about it too much.
They’re not married. They had the celebration with her family before the actual wedding.
It's how I'm coming to believe it should be as standard practice
The not so reading between the lines is that’s it’s not a year for her to decide, it’s a year for her to get therapy so that she’s in a place where she can make more rational decisions
Right?!!!!
All those flags just look like regular ole flags until you take off the rose-tinted glasses. 😎
Truer words never spoken
r/sadhorseshow
Right?
Why did I read that as malaria flags?? LOL.
Great, now I have the mental image of tiny musquitos flying in, waving tiny flags.
Tasty flags?
Misread that as “Talk about your marijuana frogs.” (No, no alcohol or weed consumption here, just bad vision.)
A year is far too generous and far too long to be in limbo. Especially when I think you know the answer now.
Maybe he just needs a year to get his head around it. If he loved her enought to want to marry her then it's hard to just turn those feelings off. But in reality he may not need the whole 12 months.
Seems like a meatball situation.
Agree!
Crimson
Nta. Your wife is really obsessed with her sister. She needs her own individual counseling. Good luck on your relationship.
It sounds to me like the wife has a dependency complex based on the original post where it was described that she raised the SIL like a parent. Something that likely has transpired is that the SIL is now actually healthily independent since she has a husband, home, and new family. OP's wife is feeling redundant and like she's not needed, which in fact she isn't. I'm betting that OP's wife has overblown SIL's situation based on her need to feel like SIL still needs her, even though SIL clearly was telling OP's wife to go on the honeymoon. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a post before too long from SIL asking if she's the AH for setting hard boundaries for the sister who raised her.
OP mentioned she will begin counseling.
Do OP and Tonya both understand a lot of that counseling has to be about why Tonya cannot let her sister, who's married with a baby and supportive husband and in-laws, be her own person? That's the biggest problem and it sounds like Marie sees it as a problem, too.
Drag this shit out for a year, maybe get pregnant. OP is fucked.
It doesn't sound like OP is much in the mood for pregnancy-causing activities with her; hopefully he keeps it securely in his pants for the next year.
I'm glad Marie is instilling boundaries since it seems your wife has a problem following them. Hopefully, therapy will help! I hope for a positive update in the future
She even tried for an Airbnb! Tonya sounds desperate. She needs help.
Right? Like her sister even said to go home, told all the relatives to not house her, and yet she STILL tried to stay? Smh.
The fact that the sister kicked her out shows how overbearing & unnecessary her presence was. It sounds like this support could've been given over a long distance. The sister isn't a single mom. She has a husband & husband's family. Did wife even ask if Sister needed/wanted her there, or did she just show up? I am 100% for supporting family, but I ask if they need/want me there. Helping can turn into overbearing very quickly. Hopefully, counseling helps because it sounds like she has some form of dependency on her sister or is one of those people who needs someone to need them.
Which is scary, considering how easy it would be to replace her now grown sister with children. Let’s all take a guess at how well she’ll do at allowing children to grow up, mature, and become independent…
One of my childhood friends has a mother who didn't want her kids to grow up. My friend's little sister was always a good student and highly motivated, but her mother discouraged her from applying to universities, and eventually the sister lost her motivation. The kids are now 37 and 35, both living with mom still. Formerly highly motivated sister never got a college degree and works part time at a church.
That makes me so sad.
I am the youngest and around my junior-senior years my mom suddenly started resisting my growing independence. We had some awful fights. I couldn’t understand why she wouldn’t let me do things that my siblings had done. It was a mystery. 40 years later, looking back, it’s obvious. I don’t think it was conscious but she was trying to stave off the empty nest. She had a really hard time after I left for college. She might even have been clinically depressed. Thankfully, my dad retired shortly after and they moved back to their hometown. I think the process of physically relocating and reconnecting with family and old friends, broke her out of her rut and her depression evaporated. Maybe the combination of Marie’s strong rejection and OP’s ultimatum will finally get through to Tonya and she’ll do the self-work necessary to fix and strengthen their relationship. UpdateMe!
NTA. Wow her sister didn't even want her there, wtaf is going on in her head. Best of luck. Updateme!
Sorry, but if she needs a year to figure out if she wants to be your wife, you’re better off walking away now.
I'm giving her a year to get therapy instead of ending it with a woman I love.
Good luck, I hope you don’t look back with regret in 20 years - watch out for baby traps and love bombing.
Wrap it up just in case she forget her BC.
Probably best to avoid sex for now.
And also bears. Watch out for bears
It's pride month. They are everywhere. I guess they could be tempting.
That wouldn’t have occurred to me but I guess that’s always good advice.
It's rule number 7 in my house. I had to make a magnet for my fridge to remind everybody
What’s rule #8? I need to know what is 1 less important than bears
Rule number 8 is "don't even ask" I'm not kidding. Other rules 1. Be kind to others 2. Don't say "meow" 7 and 8 have been covered I prefer not to share any others for fear of being docks Making up arbitrary rules for my kids is really fun. I'll just pick a number and say the rule as if it has been written in stone. They love it I love it and if they break rule #2 the punishment is tickles
“Do I look like a cat to you? Do you see me jumping all nimbly pimbly from tree to tree? Am I drinking milk from a saucer? Do you see me eating MICE?!”
Rule #9: Don't be docks.
So many red flags from her dude but whatever you do, do NOT sleep with her for the next year. She seems like the type who would baby trap you.
I’d give her a lot less time. You want to put your life on hold for a year? Six months yes but not a year. I’d also suggest one if you moved out. Date if you must but wear a condom or refrain from sexual activity a kid could result in. This is worst time to have a kid,
Have some self respect man. Therapy isn’t going to make her love you.
I think this isn’t about love - it sounds like there is some deep trauma bonding there
CONDOMS ALL YEAR - don’t trust her if she says she’s on BC
But she doesn’t love *you*, friend; hell, she can barely tolerate you. End it now.
The woman you love doesn't love you. Seriously, I don't see an ounce of love or respect from her to you in both the original post and the update. Have some self-respect and leave before you are baby-trapped or too invested/manipulated that you start to succumb to all of her delusional demands.
She won't even listen to her own sister that she is too much dude, just hope you don't regret the year wasted.
Ok. Good luck.
Which is rather understanding of you. Particularly when her sister seems to feel smothered by her. Does she recognize that? That, while she feels the need to take care of her sister, her sister doesn't seem to want her type of support? Does she recognize that they are peers now and her sister doesn't need her quite as much?
You are taking a big chance here. She can go to therapy and be "cured". White knuckle until she's pregnant. Or just get pregnant tomorrow. Then you are baby trapped.
She needs to be honest with her therapist that she's obsessed with (s)mothering her sister, even though her sister clearly wants - and insists - that she back off. Does Tonya even see how she was imposing herself on her sister when her sister insisted she leave? And didn't want her there in the first place? (Marie told her to go on your honeymoon.) Tonya needs to clearly relay this entire wedding/birth/honeymoon fiasco - including Marie's reactions - to the therapist. (And good for you for going on the honeymoon solo!) Tonya doesn't seem to get it, but until she deals with her unhealthy attachment to Marie - and gets that that's not what Marie wants - you don't stand a chance of being her top priority.
You should probably check on the wedding gifts and see if anything is perishable.
I'm glad your wife has agreed to therapy. Has she expressed any regret over missing out on your honeymoon, and is she over being angry at you for going on your own? She should be regretful after her sister kicked her out like that. That wasn't a nice "just go home to be with your new husband," that was a brutal, "get the hell out, and anyone that helps you is banned too." She not only missed out on the honeymoon, she has jeopardized her marriage. I hope things work out, but that is one heck of a way to start a marriage. Good luck! UpdateMe
Mate her own sister kicked her out and doesn’t want her there take the lesson and learn from it.
"No more drama" is a pretty audacious expectation here
Do not have a baby with her
Well I'm glad you're not actually married. I commented on the original. I'm glad to see even her sister saw she was doing too much. Seems you are giving her more grace then she was willing to give you and for that I applaud you. However, she has some serious codependency issues with her sister that will not be solved in a year of even intense therapy. I would suggest you start therapy as well. You need to start preparing for the inevitable end. I hate to be the doom and gloom chick. But it wasn't until you threatened to walk away that she said she'd get help. To me that means she isn't serious. As she didn't choose it for herself. She doesn't think she has a problem. And will not be open to solutions. I do hope I'm wrong cause it sounds like you really love her. But just be careful.
The minute her sister kicked her out is exactly when she should have realized that she needs help. Real, serious help. That she STILL didn’t is concerning. Does her own sister have to get a restraining order? Will even THAT convince her that her sister is a grown, married, independent woman (and now mother?) It would be so easy for her to create new beings that truly do depend on her. I worry for any future child she may have, whether with OP or not…
>it wasn't until you threatened to walk away that she said she'd get help. To me that means she isn't serious. As she didn't choose it for herself. She doesn't think she has a problem THIS!!!!!
She used her sister as an excuse to not be with you man, stand up for yourself because she is clearly using you as a doormat right now.
“no more drama”. Oh sweetheart, you’re so not ready
Don’t have a kid. Your fiancee is obviously not aware that she is smothering her sister. That would make me wonder what other abnormal behavior she is going to exhibit.
That she wants a year to decide if she wants to be married and put husband before sister, isn’t that unfortunately already the answer? So sorry OP.
I have a feeling she’s going to tell him exactly what he wants to hear and then go right back to prioritizing other people over him whether they need (or want) her or not.
This chick has more issues than playboy. Move on. She needs extensive therapy. Something is really wrong with her
man, I have a hard time taking hints, and even I would have seen this one. Mostly because it quickly became not a hint and your SIL wanted your wife to go. good luck, man, you’re going to need it.
Wait her sister fucking told her to go away, she still didn't want to come home, and you haven't ended it? *DUDE*, Trash belongs on the curb. Not in your bed.
> That's all. No more drama. You're so deep in drama that you don't know what "no drama" looks like anymore.
It's funny how people think thier siblings need help with things like a new baby. You would think her sister kicking her out and telling her she wasn't needed would have been an eye opener but apparently not. I hope the counseling work for you.
NTA, but to confirm, are you registering the marriage or waiting a year to register it?
Waiting a year. We will have to get a new wedding license.
Pumping the breaks, not crashing the car. Only risk is "wasting" a year. Reward is the life you hoped for. Yeah, good middle ground.
Risk is baby trap. Or she's fake cured
Good luck, OP. I hope it all works out for you in the end.
NTA I think you handled it very well, well nigh flawlessly starting with going on the honeymoon and slowly things down and giving it a year. Frankly I think your partner has the greater burden to carry and I think she has treated you badly. Good for you for standing up for yourself.
If she needs 1 year to decide what she wants then she has already decided. She just wants both lives (or just the room and board) until she's forced to make a decision.
Dude, not even her sister wants her to come first. It sounds like SIL is sick of her sister playing mommy to her. Her trying to be mommy to her baby sounds like it was the final straw. Yall need more than counseling. She also needs her own therapist to deal with ehatever-the-fuck is going on in her head. Still NTA. Also how about the update I wanted to hear about. How was the vacation? Blasting around an island on Dune buggies sounds sick.
So I may be jumping way ahead but… do you want to be a good father some day? Because if you do, I would not subject my kids to this kind of overbearing obsessive mama bear behavior. If she’s this way with her sister then omg I feel bad for any future kids she may have. Just something to consider since you hope to go the distance with her.
Sure, couples counseling will probably help her understand why you feel the way you do, but *she got angry at you after her sister had told her to go home*. To me, that means she can learn to understand why you wanted her to come home, but that doesn't mean her priorities are going to change. She has to want to make you a priority. Her sister had told her to go on her honeymoon and she still wanted to stay even though the baby'd be in the hospital. Then her sister kicked her out and she still wanted to stay in the area. You may love her, she probably loves you in her own way, but she doesn't and isn't prioritizing you. That's just not how she's built. She needs individual therapy to figure out how to live her life for herself before she's going to be able to figure out how to live life as a good partner to someone else. If you've got the patience to wait this out, you're a better person than I am and I hope it works out for you.
HER SISTER KICKS HER OUT AND SHE STILLL HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Bro you're a clown for giving her chance after chance. She ain't choosing you over her. She will lie to you about it so you stay but she ain't gonna choose you over her. Doesn't matter how she treats her That's how mom daughter relationships work xD
After a year, what is it from Tonya that you want? Basically, what are the outlined changes that need to happen? She and you have to have the same goals you’re both working towards. So what are these? I’m glad she is getting counselling. Her enmeshment with her sister is ruining her relationships, including the one most important to her. Her sister. She will drive every one away if she doesn’t get a handle on it. Will you be doing couples counselling as well? If you want a future with her then I would also recommend this. She has some psychological issues she needs to deal with. If you want to be with her then you both have to deal with them. She can’t just ride back in after a year to pick things up with you because you will be so far behind her. You need to be on the same path walking together.
Sorry OP, you are gonna waste the next year of your life waiting for a basket case to change. She will put on a good act for you, but, THE SISTER who sooooooo desperately "needed" her mommy er sister didn't want her there. You are about to hitch your wagon to a whole lot of cray cray.
NTA. But just to be clear: It takes two to make a honeymoon. If you go without her, that's just a vacation.
NTA. But interesting take. Getting married, then having his wife take off. He comes at least in second place. I seriously don’t understand this at all. I would be out already. Give her a year… hmmm no. But good luck 🍀
I don't know what you are trying to accomplish by giving it a year. Your brand new wife showed you that you are not (and won't be) her priority. That honeymoon for one was something that no therapy can erase. You want her to "show improvement" and then pull the same stunt in five years? If I were you, I would let her go free. She doesn't care about you, OP. It's time you care about yourself.
I think you should - at an appropriate time when she’s a little more settled from newborn time - talk to her sister to see what actually went on…it seems as though the sister is wanting to go low contact or no contact…you might want to find out why from the sister and not your spouse.
Mate, even her sister/daughter told her to fuck off and that she was becoming a problem.
Okay, I admit that I’m confused. I read the original post and I didn’t see anything in that about not being “officially” married and wanting to do it in Colorado. All you said was, “I just got married.” What is this other drama? Since when can’t the State of Iowa marry people? As for the baby question, I’m glad for Marie that she had the backbone to shut her older sister down. It’s unfortunate, though, that she didn’t manage to get the message through to her before the issue of her honeymoon came up. But, in the end, it’s probably better that you know what her Achilles heel is and try to work on it.
You're giving your wife, the person who's supposed to put you above everyone, a YEAR to decide if she can actually prioritise you? Seriously? This situation wasn't even an emergency. She cancelled on you so easily.
What the hell? Dude, no! In a year you two could end up with an unplanned pregnancy/infant!
The awkward moment when Tonya considers herself a second mother, but Marie just thinks she’s an overbearing big sister… yikes.
Her poor sister. Tonya just can't take a hint.
It sounds like it wasn’t even a hint, it was more of a “fuck off we don’t want you here”
!Updateme
Wow man. I’m so sorry. This sucks. You are being extremely generous. I wouldn’t be able to wait an entire year for someone to decide if they love me. Life’s too short. I wish you the best of luck!
I predict counseling isn't going to work. You probably are going to end up cutting your losses, but it's good to try to give it a shot. Best wishes on your actions
“Maybe a therapist will convince me to love you forever” Just walk away now
So her sister and her husband were even sick of her inserting herself. And then she thinks she needs to atay near by, to do what? Make sure the new parents get zero bonding time with the new baby...?! This is really telling. OP, guard yourself. The next step here is baby trapping you to stay in control.
I’m not reading this fake ass shit until you explain your last comment about running a train on someone. You’re gross
She doesn’t know if she “wants” you? Why the hell would you wait a whole year for her to figure out if you’re actually important in her life?