NTA. Really you are 4 years to late but better late then never. If you don’t do something drastic and soon you will be on here in 6 years talking about your 30 year old daughter who hasn’t worked in a decade lol. Your wife really needs to stop babying her. She is only hurting her. She’s 24!!! Get a job or get out. That simple.
Thanks! Yeah with the trajectory our daughter is on, I’m legitimately concerned she will never move out. Especially with how much tougher it is for young adults to get ahead these days. The unbiased opinions from here only endorse what I’ve been preaching all along.
Yea she is in for a rough life if she doesn’t start yesterday. Doing what you and your wife have been doing is not helping her at all. At 24 I was a food and beverage director for a 5 star hotel lol.
Right?! Wife and I were both living on our own at 19 with full time jobs. I hate to be a part of that crowd that says it’s a generational thing but I see it so much now it’s hard to dispute. Not dismissing the lack of parenting on our part at all but the generational aspect doesn’t help.
I’m 38 so your daughter is not that far from me. Yea I do believe it’s partly a generation thing but it’s also the older generation allowing it to happen. My father use to wake me up at 5am to go work for him on the weekends when I was in high school. I hated it at the time but thank him everyday now.
I don’t think it’s a generation thing. I think kids in this generation have different challenges than we did but they are all pretty much the same.
My 17 yr old works 20 hrs per week while in high school because she likes to buy expensive clothes, makeup and other teen stuff that I told her I cannot afford. She wakes up at 7am on the weekends to go to work sometimes.
Two years back she wanted to stay home during the summer and just go out with friends and spend money. Threw royal tantrums that I still have scars from..lol.
We stay in a HCOL so it took a while for me to communicate to her that I’m not as rich as her wealthy classmates and could not afford to buy expensive stuff all the time.
Like I could buy her 1 aritzia hoodie for Christmas but not every month. She’s a good kid. She got it.
But I had to communicate with her to open her eyes. She didn’t know that I bought my clothes from Goodwill for a few years so that I could save money to pay for our bills sometimes.
Completely agree!! Easier said than done though. If we kicked her out she would literally be homeless and that’s just not something I can do comfortably as a parent. Sounds mean but I basically want to make her life uncomfortable at home by tasking her with chores until she’s motivated to work and HOPEFULLY realize living on her own is the better choice.
I’m not saying kick her out tomorrow. I’m saying you give her a deadline. Maybe 3 months. You say that she has done nothing for years and it’s time she starts living her own life. Give her x date and say if you don’t have a full time job by then she needs to move out. Also, give her a list of chores that need to be completed daily. (Enough to keep her busy but not enough she can’t look for a job). Tell her the free ride is over. Then, weekly give her the countdown so she knows you’re serious. You AND your wife need to be fully prepared to kick her out on that day if she doesn’t have a full time job. It’s that simple.
NTA - I wouldn’t ask her to leave though as some are suggesting. She’s obviously a nice person just lazy and a bit in a rut.
Your wife’s obviously worried about her mental health so maybe some middle ground is needed here.
Shes an adult so needs to learn responsibility and it will be good for her to be more active but I would implement changes gradually.
I would have a sit down with her and say for her own good she needs to be more productive as you feel she’s got in a rut and if she doesn’t have a job then she has to carry more of the household responsibilities.
Can you encourage her to do some physical exercise, swim, join a gym. It’s always a good starting point to get you out of a rut. What job does she want to do? Is going to college an option?
Personally I would go at it from the angle that you’re worried about her as as a parent myself I would be and that would be my primary concern and objective to sort out.
Edited to add:- I’ve just read your her step father and have only been so for 5 years, this needs to be in your post as it changes a lot.
Your wife needs to be the one who mainly talks to her about the above but you can offer constructive help .
You don't have to kick her out right away but you should make it clear, 100% clear to her and your wife that this is it. Get a job and pay rent. Until you get the job you take on extra chores around the house because you have nothing better to do. I mean she's way old enough to know better than this and just letting her get by with it isn't helping anyone. She's not that fucking sensitive. Change the Wi-Fi password and don't let her have any Wi-Fi to game with. If she wants to act like a child then she can be treated like a child.
Put up a tent or storage shed in the backyard so she can go live in that. You've let her lounge around your home this long, what makes you think she'll leave? You'll actually have to get her evicted legally BTW.
Yup I’m aware I’d have to go through a fully legal eviction process. Especially being in California. We are prepared for it but don’t want to have to go that route if possible. I wish my wife was more on the tough love side of things but I guess that’s where I come in. She might not like what I have to say to our daughter but I’m confident it’s what’s best for everybody in the long run.
It’s definitely a stress on our relationship but we have good communication and a strong marriage. I’m not worried about it causing a divorce but I am worried about the well-being of our daughter’s future. I don’t think the word independent is even in her vocabulary.
You think you have a strong marriage, until you decide you've had enough of this girl's drama and evict her. Is this something you've discussed at depth? Taking drastic actions have drastic results, divorce being one of them and letting your wife and daughter go live together without you.
My wife whole-heartedly agrees with all the points I’ve been making. To the point she’s willing to go send her to live with her absentee father in Georgia (her father has already said she could live with him). Daughter definitely doesn’t want to go but if we evict her that’s basically her only option. Just recently finances have gotten a lot tighter and that’s starting to light a fire under my wife. I believe we are both on the same page. However, I think I will be the better person to lead our next discussion with my wife at my side there to support what I have to say.
OK, then it's probably settled then, she's outta there. And yea, living in a hard blue state will make life tough, I got outta there 17 years ago this month, been living the dream since.
Quit treating her like a child. You shouldn’t be trying to “assign” chores at this age or even manage her life in any way. Rents due in the first. Figure it out. The lawn needs to be mowed .. the floors need cleaned .. you live here … help out or move. Your job was to teach her to take care of herself and be self sufficient. Everyone is “sensitive”. She’s not special or more or less sensitive than anyone. A break up at 20 doesn’t take years to get over.
I totally agree with that. As a father I’m disappointed in myself that I’ve let this go so far. Something I didn’t state though is I’m actually her step-father and I’ve only been in her life the last 5 years. Her real dad was basically absent and offered no advice or guidance during her youth. I’ve had to build her trust and respect before I felt comfortable asking things of her. Now that I have both of those, wife and I haven’t been on the same page when it comes to how we need to handle her. I can tell it’s starting to wear more on my wife though and I think we are at the breaking point. I’m actually in the process of writing all my thoughts down clearly to convey to my wife what needs to be done right away.
First , it’s up to your wife not you. You most definitely aren’t the front man and it’s not your place to act as if you are her father. She’s a grown woman. She was grown when you showed up. Get on the same page as your wife. Be a United front BUT… you said that you let it get this far. You didn’t let anything get anywhere. You aren’t her parent and while she may be living in what is now your house your wife is actually the one at fault absent father or not. We all had absent fathers or mothers or some reason… you don’t show up and start pretending you’re daddy when she’s 19 and certainly not at 24. Get your wife on track. If all else fails talk to both of them at the same time
You aren't her father but you are part owner of the house she lives in. Let your wife lead in all the where she can go and what chores need to be done. You can tell her, as a quasi landlord,it's either rent or chores and that if these chores are not done she cannot continue to live in the home where you are part owner. It may well ruin your relationship with her, but it may ruin her relationship with her mother too. She's been sobbing and throwing fits her entire life, because she's "sensitive". That is not going to change overnight or without some significant pain on everyone's part.
Asking kindly but you reference her being "sensitive" are you alluding to mental health issues? If that's the case is she getting therapy/meds?
This is kind of extreme but it worked with one of my husband's nephews. When you and your husband leave for work in the morning your daughter needs to leave the house as well. She's still welcome to sleep in your house over night, eat dinner, do laundry but she can't be in the house while you're at work. Also, when you go to bed, shut off the wifi.
You are coming up on a "fall off the cliff event" in less that two years you most likely won't be able to keep her on your work insurance.
If you have a local community college have her schedule an appointment with a counsellor and look into some of their one and two years job programs.
If her problems are mental health related it's possible she'd be eligible for voc rehab funds.
She does take medication for anxiety and depression but I feel like those are basically standard this day and age. Tons of people live successful lives while dealing with those issues. She’s tried therapy in the past but she’s shy and not comfortable opening up to strangers.
As somebody who has no diagnosed mental issues and never taken medication, it can be a bit hard for me to understand how debilitating both of those could be. I completely believe that our daughter suffers from some sort of anxiety or depression, but I also think she plays into that a bit.
For example, a few weeks ago we all went out to a local brewery with live music. It was fairly loud as are most of these places with lots of people. She lasted about 45 minutes before she started to cry and said she needed to be by herself in the car because the commotion was too much. I believe her reaction was genuine but also exacerbated due to the fact that she’s not used to being out in public or interacting with large groups of people. Which is subsequently a combination of her fault for letting her car become worthless and because we live in a tiny rural town. She also would just prefer to stay in her room all day every day.
She’s in for a rude awakening when work insurance stops covering her meds and we’ve told her this multiple times in the last few years. She’s aware but not doing anything.
I appreciate the advice and love the WiFi idea as well.
I’m not a parent and therefore won’t contribute to the conversation in that regard, but based on my own experience as a young adult (23F) with autism and ADHD, it sounds to me like she might fall somewhere on either/both of those spectrums as well. I suspect this for a number of reasons, but I’ll keep it relatively short and if you wish for me to elaborate, I will. As it relates to the possibility of being autistic, I too self-isolate and avoid most social situations *despite* knowing it’s not good for me to do so. However, having spent most of my life undiagnosed and therefore without accommodations and resources till about a year ago, social situations have always been incredibly yet inexplicably overwhelming. It got to the point where once I finished high school, I was so burnt out that I unintentionally entered into a two-year dissociative state just to make it through only some of college before having to drop out after twice trying to end my own life. My burnout was also caused by the severely debilitating executive dysfunction associated with ADHD, something it sounds like your daughter may be struggling with as well. I too spent a year dragging my feet when it came to finding a job, because even after my last hospitalization and over six months in an intensive outpatient program, I still hadn’t recovered from that state of fight, flight, or freeze I spent so long in. Unfortunately, this has also led to me experiencing a myriad of chronic health issues/pain and has left me no choice but to postpone the job hunt until they are properly addressed, which has been an ongoing but slow-moving process. But enough about me, right? The point is, I think this might be something worth looking into. Your daughter’s seemingly lazy go at life, though I understand why you and everyone else might think that and for that I do not fault you, strikes me as very surface level and fails to address what might be a much, much deeper issue. Truly though, I sympathize with your frustration and hope something can be done for both your daughter *and* you. You sound like a very generous and genuinely caring man, and I am so incredibly lucky to have a dad who is the same, but sometimes generosity and care just aren’t enough, unfortunately. And none of this is to say your daughter should get a free pass or anything of the sort, but if she is neurodivergent, a more focused approached at finding support, aka a therapist or what have you that specializes in autism and/or ADHD, might be a game changer and, over time, improve the quality of life of you all. In any case, I wish your family nothing but the best, and, again, you are more than welcome to shoot me a message if further clarification is needed on any of what I’ve shared here today.
She has seen medical professionals quite a few times and based on their findings and what we’ve seen, we don’t believe her to be autistic or ADHD. I’m her step-father so I didn’t come into her life till she was about 19.
According to my wife, her daughter was very outgoing, social, had lots of friends, lived a healthy lifestyle, etc. Something happened around 16 that was like a switch went off. My wife and her went from being best friends to adversaries. The big event my wife recalls was the first time she took her daughter’s phone away due to having very inappropriate conversations and sending explicit pics with others. Shortly afterwards, she went to live with her grandparents (this was daughters wishes) for about 2 years. My wife and her still maintained a good relationship despite not living under the same roof. They still frequently saw each other and only lived minutes apart.
After living with grandparents is when she moved in with her boyfriend until they ultimately broke up. She moved back with us and 4 years later and she’s made zero forward progress in life.
I hope you aren't minimizing the effect that mental health issues can be affecting her.
I'm also wondering if the 'switch' at 16 was something traumatic, like a sexual assault.
By no means are we minimizing anything. My wife has taken her to see therapists and still maintains a very close relationship with her despite the turmoil we are currently experiencing at home. She’s explicitly questioned her daughter if anything major happened around that time in her life, to which she explains nothing happened. SA victims can obviously hide their assault out of shame, embarrassment, or a variety of reasons. But we’ve made ourselves available to talk about anything and she’s had the opportunity to talk to professionals as well.
If there was a major event that happened that she’s not healing from, I firmly believe in the saying that a closed mouth doesn’t get fed.
She doesn’t need to tell us specific details of anything or even tell us..but she should tell somebody or find a way to heal from whatever might have happened. I personally don’t think anything major happened. People experience personality shifts for a variety of reasons..minor or major.
We are aware that we will need to watch her mental health very closely during these times but it’s no reason for us to go any softer on her. She’s an adult and she’s just digging herself into a deeper unemployable hole by doing nothing.
I know it wasn’t listed in the initial post but I’m actually her step father and I’ve only been in her life about 5 years. Grown or not, I still consider her one of my own and care about her well being. Her bio father was absentee and moved away. They still talk occasionally and that’s where she might end up if things don’t work out for her here. Therapist would be a great step as well.
Good luck to you. Caring about a person and holding them to standards are not in conflict with each other. She’s unable to function as an adult because she’s been so coddled - hopefully you can lead your family out of this mess with the help of professionals.
The problem isn't your daughter -- it's your wife. If you and she are not on the same page, your daughter is going to live with you forever and bleed you dry. If you can get your wife to not only recognize the problem but TRULY agree to a solution, then the problem will get fixed.
Recommendation: Use the Socratic method. Ask questions. Get your WIFE to say that the daughter needs to grow up and move out. Get your WIFE to come up with a solution with deadlines. If SHE is the one coming up with all this, then she will have buy in and is more likely to stick with it. Just ask questions. DON'T offer your opinion or make suggestions. Just keep thinking of ways to ask questions that ultimately lead her to what she needs to recognize.
I’ve never heard of that method but I really like that. I think I’m going to implement that into our conversation. I’ve got at least a few days to plan it out and you’re right…I already know what I want done. I just have to ask the right questions to my wife to make sure she’s on the same page instead of telling her what I’d like to do.
NTA
But I think you guys need a plan. Dropping a ton of responsibility on her immediately is going to backfire.
Have you thought about going to counseling yourself to map out a plan for how to approach her? There’s definitely something going on here that needs to be addressed, and my guess is that it’s outside your skillset. That’s a zero judgement statement, it would be outside my skillset too.
I kinda wonder if your daughter might be on the spectrum? BUT, let a licensed professional help you navigate an approach here. You love your daughter, and she desperately needs to build some life skills. So find help for yourself on how to make that happen, some things are just not meant to be DIY.
Edit: You’re 110% allowed to be frustrated, but I am sure you have tried a few things in the past and it got you nowhere. There’s no shame in reaching out to help build your own toolbox before you tackle how to approach your daughters.
I too am slightly worried about overwhelming her but we’ve tried letting her do her own thing to see if she makes an effort to do more..she did not. We routinely remind her we need her to find work asap while giving her some chores to do around home..bare minimum gets done. So I think the next step is more home responsibilities while still continuing job search. And also giving her a reasonable deadline.
For me, I’m done beating around the bush and letting things slide. I can’t wait until my wife and I can finally sit her down and have what I declare to be the most serious discussion we’ve ever had with her. I plan to be very matter-of-fact, straight to the point, and fair. I’ve thought about all of this long enough to keep my emotions in check and her tears aren’t going to deter us from making our point. I’m not out to hurt her feelings but she needs to know how serious we are.
I’d sit her down and talk with her right now but my wife is out of town the next few days and it’s not right to do this alone. I will say that being home with daughter the last few days has really showed me just how little she does which only confirmed my need to have this conversation asap.
Cut off her access to the internet until certain conditions are met. She'll either ask the neighbors or leave somewhere to get access. Put a small shed in the back with a bucket and bed, tell her that's where she'll stay while not paying rent.
I get it, I really do. Go talk to someone about how to approach this. You would be shocked at the strategies out there.
And more importantly, a therapist would be Team You. You deserve to have an unbiased ear to talk to while you sort through it.
Also things like, how to adjust if your first approach doesn’t work, etc.
You have EVERY right to be frustrated, but I don’t think this has a simple solution. Consequences 100% matter, but I doubt your daughter likes being this way.
So what alternatives are there? Good luck, I have my fingers crossed for you!
Make her get up when you do. Insist she leave the house while you are gone. After that, doing some chores won’t seem so bad.
Ask her what she will do after the meal tickets die.
While I do agree with that, I’m not sure my wife would. I work graveyard so I’m home all day and my wife works days. Sure she could just leave during the day but she has no car, no public transportation, and about 3 businesses in our tiny town she could hang out at. Not to mention this whole week has temps of over 100 degrees where I live. It’s just a crappy situation all around that we are actively working to improve.
NTA. Your daughter has learned sensitivity. She uses it to manipulate you and your wife. She cries and "shuts down" to get her way, like a toddler throwing a tantrum.
Give her the list of chores. Daily chores, weekly chores, and as needed chores. Include cooking dinner every day you and wife work. She can do the chores, get a job and pay rent, or move out. 3 options. Her decision.
If she chooses none of the above, stop supporting her. No money. No outings. Very basic, generic, necessities. No extras.
Itis your job to teach her to be a responsible adult. So far, she isn't. It's time for her to learn.
This girl has comfortably settled in and with zero responsibilities, why would she want to move out? Mom and dad take care of everything. Turn off her internet access so she can't game. That's the majority of her problem right there. And I wouldn't bother with all the chores. I'd give her a specific date to move out. Give her a few months so she can find a job and find a place. But hold to that date, and if she hasn't found a job or place to live, that's her problem. Out she goes.
NTA but enabling her is not going to help her in the long run. I would start by cutting out your daughter’s WiFi access. My guess is that she has become addicted to video games. Tell her that she needs to get a job and pay for her own WiFi from now on.
Second, I would stop paying for all her eating out or clothes saying you cannot afford that. She needs to start working and pay for that stuff on her own.
She might scream, yell, cry - but you need to be nice but firm about it.
Then after a few weeks, I would find a couple of cheap rental places and tell her that she needs to move and start her own life.
At every stage try and have a conversation with her about it. That you are not abandoning her but rather equipping her for becoming independent. It is your responsibility as a good parent to do this.
Insist on having dinner together without electronics at least once a week if not daily.
Keep the communication lines open while forcing the changes on her.
Parenting is a tough job. Hang in there. All the best!
I hear you - when we were young, we wanted to get into the world: We wanted to buy cars, get jobs, by houses, go to school, get married, etc. So many of these kids just don't seem to have any pep.
NTA
You are 100% correct that she needs some structure, and what you're proposing is likely to provide the same. If you think it will be beneficial, and this isn't just punitive, then that course of action is best.
A couple of caveats to that though:
1. Its rent or chores, not both. If she starts paying rent as expected, you can't reasonably expect her to pick up the household responsibilities as well.
2. If your end goal is to get her moved out, she will need a job to do so. Make sure that any regime you put in place doesn't unduly interfere with her ability to work, and consider making allowances in the schedule you build if she needs the time for a job.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful response! Adding structure to her life is a great way of phrasing that. I agree with your caveats as well, but not entirely. While I completely agree that household chores shouldn’t interfere with any possible job, I don’t think it should be one or the other. Plenty of people work full time and still do chores around home. A good balance can be found between the two especially when shared amongst 3 adults. We would absolutely give her less tasks to do around home if she were employed.
Exactly. Assign her to plan, buy and prepare dinner a few nights a week (like she would have to if she moved out). Have her take on some chores too. The goal is self sufficiency not further coddling.
I'm not arguing with you at all about the split between chores and a job - you're absolutely right, everyone generally does both.
But, just consider your purpose here: Are you trying to get some help with chores? Or are you trying to get her out of the house and stable enough to live on her own?
If the answer to the first question is yes, then you're in the clear to do whatever. If you agree with the second answer however, you should abate the chores significantly if she's working. That way she's not turning down shifts/focusing on her job over household responsibilities/etc., which will get her to a place where she's capable of moving out a lot quicker.
She can learn how to do all the normal human adult stuff quickly when she's on her own, most people do. Having the stability of a job is way more important, as she is literally incapable of supporting herself without one.
We want her out and stable enough to live on her own. We know it’s not an overnight process and we should’ve started years ago but again, better late than never.
I’d like to start her off with a good amount of house chores. Like you said, it would provide structure and discipline that would hopefully translate to her work life. She’d be expected to apply for jobs while still completing said chores.
However once she finds a job, we’d take away any home responsibilities that interfered with her working and ensure her primary focus was her job.
NTA
Kick her ass out.
And what does her being "sensitive" have anything do with anything?
She cries at the drop of a hat. Of course, she does. It has worked for her all her life. Why would she stop now?
Socrates said many years ago:
# “Trust not a woman when she weeps, for it is her nature to weep when she wants her will.”
Well I guess to expand on her being sensitive, she has diagnosed anxiety and depression that she’s medicated for. But that’s hardly an excuse. Just makes things a bit tougher for her that’s all.
NTA. Really you are 4 years to late but better late then never. If you don’t do something drastic and soon you will be on here in 6 years talking about your 30 year old daughter who hasn’t worked in a decade lol. Your wife really needs to stop babying her. She is only hurting her. She’s 24!!! Get a job or get out. That simple.
Thanks! Yeah with the trajectory our daughter is on, I’m legitimately concerned she will never move out. Especially with how much tougher it is for young adults to get ahead these days. The unbiased opinions from here only endorse what I’ve been preaching all along.
Yea she is in for a rough life if she doesn’t start yesterday. Doing what you and your wife have been doing is not helping her at all. At 24 I was a food and beverage director for a 5 star hotel lol.
Right?! Wife and I were both living on our own at 19 with full time jobs. I hate to be a part of that crowd that says it’s a generational thing but I see it so much now it’s hard to dispute. Not dismissing the lack of parenting on our part at all but the generational aspect doesn’t help.
I’m 38 so your daughter is not that far from me. Yea I do believe it’s partly a generation thing but it’s also the older generation allowing it to happen. My father use to wake me up at 5am to go work for him on the weekends when I was in high school. I hated it at the time but thank him everyday now.
I don’t think it’s a generation thing. I think kids in this generation have different challenges than we did but they are all pretty much the same. My 17 yr old works 20 hrs per week while in high school because she likes to buy expensive clothes, makeup and other teen stuff that I told her I cannot afford. She wakes up at 7am on the weekends to go to work sometimes. Two years back she wanted to stay home during the summer and just go out with friends and spend money. Threw royal tantrums that I still have scars from..lol. We stay in a HCOL so it took a while for me to communicate to her that I’m not as rich as her wealthy classmates and could not afford to buy expensive stuff all the time. Like I could buy her 1 aritzia hoodie for Christmas but not every month. She’s a good kid. She got it. But I had to communicate with her to open her eyes. She didn’t know that I bought my clothes from Goodwill for a few years so that I could save money to pay for our bills sometimes.
Completely agree!! Easier said than done though. If we kicked her out she would literally be homeless and that’s just not something I can do comfortably as a parent. Sounds mean but I basically want to make her life uncomfortable at home by tasking her with chores until she’s motivated to work and HOPEFULLY realize living on her own is the better choice.
I’m not saying kick her out tomorrow. I’m saying you give her a deadline. Maybe 3 months. You say that she has done nothing for years and it’s time she starts living her own life. Give her x date and say if you don’t have a full time job by then she needs to move out. Also, give her a list of chores that need to be completed daily. (Enough to keep her busy but not enough she can’t look for a job). Tell her the free ride is over. Then, weekly give her the countdown so she knows you’re serious. You AND your wife need to be fully prepared to kick her out on that day if she doesn’t have a full time job. It’s that simple.
NTA - I wouldn’t ask her to leave though as some are suggesting. She’s obviously a nice person just lazy and a bit in a rut. Your wife’s obviously worried about her mental health so maybe some middle ground is needed here. Shes an adult so needs to learn responsibility and it will be good for her to be more active but I would implement changes gradually. I would have a sit down with her and say for her own good she needs to be more productive as you feel she’s got in a rut and if she doesn’t have a job then she has to carry more of the household responsibilities. Can you encourage her to do some physical exercise, swim, join a gym. It’s always a good starting point to get you out of a rut. What job does she want to do? Is going to college an option? Personally I would go at it from the angle that you’re worried about her as as a parent myself I would be and that would be my primary concern and objective to sort out. Edited to add:- I’ve just read your her step father and have only been so for 5 years, this needs to be in your post as it changes a lot. Your wife needs to be the one who mainly talks to her about the above but you can offer constructive help .
You don't have to kick her out right away but you should make it clear, 100% clear to her and your wife that this is it. Get a job and pay rent. Until you get the job you take on extra chores around the house because you have nothing better to do. I mean she's way old enough to know better than this and just letting her get by with it isn't helping anyone. She's not that fucking sensitive. Change the Wi-Fi password and don't let her have any Wi-Fi to game with. If she wants to act like a child then she can be treated like a child.
Put up a tent or storage shed in the backyard so she can go live in that. You've let her lounge around your home this long, what makes you think she'll leave? You'll actually have to get her evicted legally BTW.
Yup I’m aware I’d have to go through a fully legal eviction process. Especially being in California. We are prepared for it but don’t want to have to go that route if possible. I wish my wife was more on the tough love side of things but I guess that’s where I come in. She might not like what I have to say to our daughter but I’m confident it’s what’s best for everybody in the long run.
More to the point, is this the hill to die on for your marriage?? Is this an issue that will cause divorce or separation???
It’s definitely a stress on our relationship but we have good communication and a strong marriage. I’m not worried about it causing a divorce but I am worried about the well-being of our daughter’s future. I don’t think the word independent is even in her vocabulary.
You think you have a strong marriage, until you decide you've had enough of this girl's drama and evict her. Is this something you've discussed at depth? Taking drastic actions have drastic results, divorce being one of them and letting your wife and daughter go live together without you.
My wife whole-heartedly agrees with all the points I’ve been making. To the point she’s willing to go send her to live with her absentee father in Georgia (her father has already said she could live with him). Daughter definitely doesn’t want to go but if we evict her that’s basically her only option. Just recently finances have gotten a lot tighter and that’s starting to light a fire under my wife. I believe we are both on the same page. However, I think I will be the better person to lead our next discussion with my wife at my side there to support what I have to say.
OK, then it's probably settled then, she's outta there. And yea, living in a hard blue state will make life tough, I got outta there 17 years ago this month, been living the dream since.
Quit treating her like a child. You shouldn’t be trying to “assign” chores at this age or even manage her life in any way. Rents due in the first. Figure it out. The lawn needs to be mowed .. the floors need cleaned .. you live here … help out or move. Your job was to teach her to take care of herself and be self sufficient. Everyone is “sensitive”. She’s not special or more or less sensitive than anyone. A break up at 20 doesn’t take years to get over.
I totally agree with that. As a father I’m disappointed in myself that I’ve let this go so far. Something I didn’t state though is I’m actually her step-father and I’ve only been in her life the last 5 years. Her real dad was basically absent and offered no advice or guidance during her youth. I’ve had to build her trust and respect before I felt comfortable asking things of her. Now that I have both of those, wife and I haven’t been on the same page when it comes to how we need to handle her. I can tell it’s starting to wear more on my wife though and I think we are at the breaking point. I’m actually in the process of writing all my thoughts down clearly to convey to my wife what needs to be done right away.
First , it’s up to your wife not you. You most definitely aren’t the front man and it’s not your place to act as if you are her father. She’s a grown woman. She was grown when you showed up. Get on the same page as your wife. Be a United front BUT… you said that you let it get this far. You didn’t let anything get anywhere. You aren’t her parent and while she may be living in what is now your house your wife is actually the one at fault absent father or not. We all had absent fathers or mothers or some reason… you don’t show up and start pretending you’re daddy when she’s 19 and certainly not at 24. Get your wife on track. If all else fails talk to both of them at the same time
You aren't her father but you are part owner of the house she lives in. Let your wife lead in all the where she can go and what chores need to be done. You can tell her, as a quasi landlord,it's either rent or chores and that if these chores are not done she cannot continue to live in the home where you are part owner. It may well ruin your relationship with her, but it may ruin her relationship with her mother too. She's been sobbing and throwing fits her entire life, because she's "sensitive". That is not going to change overnight or without some significant pain on everyone's part.
Asking kindly but you reference her being "sensitive" are you alluding to mental health issues? If that's the case is she getting therapy/meds? This is kind of extreme but it worked with one of my husband's nephews. When you and your husband leave for work in the morning your daughter needs to leave the house as well. She's still welcome to sleep in your house over night, eat dinner, do laundry but she can't be in the house while you're at work. Also, when you go to bed, shut off the wifi. You are coming up on a "fall off the cliff event" in less that two years you most likely won't be able to keep her on your work insurance. If you have a local community college have her schedule an appointment with a counsellor and look into some of their one and two years job programs. If her problems are mental health related it's possible she'd be eligible for voc rehab funds.
She does take medication for anxiety and depression but I feel like those are basically standard this day and age. Tons of people live successful lives while dealing with those issues. She’s tried therapy in the past but she’s shy and not comfortable opening up to strangers. As somebody who has no diagnosed mental issues and never taken medication, it can be a bit hard for me to understand how debilitating both of those could be. I completely believe that our daughter suffers from some sort of anxiety or depression, but I also think she plays into that a bit. For example, a few weeks ago we all went out to a local brewery with live music. It was fairly loud as are most of these places with lots of people. She lasted about 45 minutes before she started to cry and said she needed to be by herself in the car because the commotion was too much. I believe her reaction was genuine but also exacerbated due to the fact that she’s not used to being out in public or interacting with large groups of people. Which is subsequently a combination of her fault for letting her car become worthless and because we live in a tiny rural town. She also would just prefer to stay in her room all day every day. She’s in for a rude awakening when work insurance stops covering her meds and we’ve told her this multiple times in the last few years. She’s aware but not doing anything. I appreciate the advice and love the WiFi idea as well.
I’m not a parent and therefore won’t contribute to the conversation in that regard, but based on my own experience as a young adult (23F) with autism and ADHD, it sounds to me like she might fall somewhere on either/both of those spectrums as well. I suspect this for a number of reasons, but I’ll keep it relatively short and if you wish for me to elaborate, I will. As it relates to the possibility of being autistic, I too self-isolate and avoid most social situations *despite* knowing it’s not good for me to do so. However, having spent most of my life undiagnosed and therefore without accommodations and resources till about a year ago, social situations have always been incredibly yet inexplicably overwhelming. It got to the point where once I finished high school, I was so burnt out that I unintentionally entered into a two-year dissociative state just to make it through only some of college before having to drop out after twice trying to end my own life. My burnout was also caused by the severely debilitating executive dysfunction associated with ADHD, something it sounds like your daughter may be struggling with as well. I too spent a year dragging my feet when it came to finding a job, because even after my last hospitalization and over six months in an intensive outpatient program, I still hadn’t recovered from that state of fight, flight, or freeze I spent so long in. Unfortunately, this has also led to me experiencing a myriad of chronic health issues/pain and has left me no choice but to postpone the job hunt until they are properly addressed, which has been an ongoing but slow-moving process. But enough about me, right? The point is, I think this might be something worth looking into. Your daughter’s seemingly lazy go at life, though I understand why you and everyone else might think that and for that I do not fault you, strikes me as very surface level and fails to address what might be a much, much deeper issue. Truly though, I sympathize with your frustration and hope something can be done for both your daughter *and* you. You sound like a very generous and genuinely caring man, and I am so incredibly lucky to have a dad who is the same, but sometimes generosity and care just aren’t enough, unfortunately. And none of this is to say your daughter should get a free pass or anything of the sort, but if she is neurodivergent, a more focused approached at finding support, aka a therapist or what have you that specializes in autism and/or ADHD, might be a game changer and, over time, improve the quality of life of you all. In any case, I wish your family nothing but the best, and, again, you are more than welcome to shoot me a message if further clarification is needed on any of what I’ve shared here today.
She has seen medical professionals quite a few times and based on their findings and what we’ve seen, we don’t believe her to be autistic or ADHD. I’m her step-father so I didn’t come into her life till she was about 19. According to my wife, her daughter was very outgoing, social, had lots of friends, lived a healthy lifestyle, etc. Something happened around 16 that was like a switch went off. My wife and her went from being best friends to adversaries. The big event my wife recalls was the first time she took her daughter’s phone away due to having very inappropriate conversations and sending explicit pics with others. Shortly afterwards, she went to live with her grandparents (this was daughters wishes) for about 2 years. My wife and her still maintained a good relationship despite not living under the same roof. They still frequently saw each other and only lived minutes apart. After living with grandparents is when she moved in with her boyfriend until they ultimately broke up. She moved back with us and 4 years later and she’s made zero forward progress in life.
I hope you aren't minimizing the effect that mental health issues can be affecting her. I'm also wondering if the 'switch' at 16 was something traumatic, like a sexual assault.
By no means are we minimizing anything. My wife has taken her to see therapists and still maintains a very close relationship with her despite the turmoil we are currently experiencing at home. She’s explicitly questioned her daughter if anything major happened around that time in her life, to which she explains nothing happened. SA victims can obviously hide their assault out of shame, embarrassment, or a variety of reasons. But we’ve made ourselves available to talk about anything and she’s had the opportunity to talk to professionals as well. If there was a major event that happened that she’s not healing from, I firmly believe in the saying that a closed mouth doesn’t get fed. She doesn’t need to tell us specific details of anything or even tell us..but she should tell somebody or find a way to heal from whatever might have happened. I personally don’t think anything major happened. People experience personality shifts for a variety of reasons..minor or major. We are aware that we will need to watch her mental health very closely during these times but it’s no reason for us to go any softer on her. She’s an adult and she’s just digging herself into a deeper unemployable hole by doing nothing.
Enabling your child is the asshole move. She's 24 and using her sensitivity as a weapon. Time to establish some adult rules.
Ooooh weaponized sensitivity. I like that angle also. Thanks for the advice.
NTA. Not sure why you let it go this long but.
You’re about 24 years too late in parenting her, may as well start now. I’d enlist the help of a therapist to help you learn to hold your boundaries.
I know it wasn’t listed in the initial post but I’m actually her step father and I’ve only been in her life about 5 years. Grown or not, I still consider her one of my own and care about her well being. Her bio father was absentee and moved away. They still talk occasionally and that’s where she might end up if things don’t work out for her here. Therapist would be a great step as well.
Good luck to you. Caring about a person and holding them to standards are not in conflict with each other. She’s unable to function as an adult because she’s been so coddled - hopefully you can lead your family out of this mess with the help of professionals.
The problem isn't your daughter -- it's your wife. If you and she are not on the same page, your daughter is going to live with you forever and bleed you dry. If you can get your wife to not only recognize the problem but TRULY agree to a solution, then the problem will get fixed. Recommendation: Use the Socratic method. Ask questions. Get your WIFE to say that the daughter needs to grow up and move out. Get your WIFE to come up with a solution with deadlines. If SHE is the one coming up with all this, then she will have buy in and is more likely to stick with it. Just ask questions. DON'T offer your opinion or make suggestions. Just keep thinking of ways to ask questions that ultimately lead her to what she needs to recognize.
I’ve never heard of that method but I really like that. I think I’m going to implement that into our conversation. I’ve got at least a few days to plan it out and you’re right…I already know what I want done. I just have to ask the right questions to my wife to make sure she’s on the same page instead of telling her what I’d like to do.
NTA But I think you guys need a plan. Dropping a ton of responsibility on her immediately is going to backfire. Have you thought about going to counseling yourself to map out a plan for how to approach her? There’s definitely something going on here that needs to be addressed, and my guess is that it’s outside your skillset. That’s a zero judgement statement, it would be outside my skillset too. I kinda wonder if your daughter might be on the spectrum? BUT, let a licensed professional help you navigate an approach here. You love your daughter, and she desperately needs to build some life skills. So find help for yourself on how to make that happen, some things are just not meant to be DIY. Edit: You’re 110% allowed to be frustrated, but I am sure you have tried a few things in the past and it got you nowhere. There’s no shame in reaching out to help build your own toolbox before you tackle how to approach your daughters.
I too am slightly worried about overwhelming her but we’ve tried letting her do her own thing to see if she makes an effort to do more..she did not. We routinely remind her we need her to find work asap while giving her some chores to do around home..bare minimum gets done. So I think the next step is more home responsibilities while still continuing job search. And also giving her a reasonable deadline. For me, I’m done beating around the bush and letting things slide. I can’t wait until my wife and I can finally sit her down and have what I declare to be the most serious discussion we’ve ever had with her. I plan to be very matter-of-fact, straight to the point, and fair. I’ve thought about all of this long enough to keep my emotions in check and her tears aren’t going to deter us from making our point. I’m not out to hurt her feelings but she needs to know how serious we are. I’d sit her down and talk with her right now but my wife is out of town the next few days and it’s not right to do this alone. I will say that being home with daughter the last few days has really showed me just how little she does which only confirmed my need to have this conversation asap.
Cut off her access to the internet until certain conditions are met. She'll either ask the neighbors or leave somewhere to get access. Put a small shed in the back with a bucket and bed, tell her that's where she'll stay while not paying rent.
I get it, I really do. Go talk to someone about how to approach this. You would be shocked at the strategies out there. And more importantly, a therapist would be Team You. You deserve to have an unbiased ear to talk to while you sort through it. Also things like, how to adjust if your first approach doesn’t work, etc. You have EVERY right to be frustrated, but I don’t think this has a simple solution. Consequences 100% matter, but I doubt your daughter likes being this way. So what alternatives are there? Good luck, I have my fingers crossed for you!
NTA I would have gave her a eviction notice after 6 months.
Make her get up when you do. Insist she leave the house while you are gone. After that, doing some chores won’t seem so bad. Ask her what she will do after the meal tickets die.
While I do agree with that, I’m not sure my wife would. I work graveyard so I’m home all day and my wife works days. Sure she could just leave during the day but she has no car, no public transportation, and about 3 businesses in our tiny town she could hang out at. Not to mention this whole week has temps of over 100 degrees where I live. It’s just a crappy situation all around that we are actively working to improve.
NTA. Your daughter has learned sensitivity. She uses it to manipulate you and your wife. She cries and "shuts down" to get her way, like a toddler throwing a tantrum. Give her the list of chores. Daily chores, weekly chores, and as needed chores. Include cooking dinner every day you and wife work. She can do the chores, get a job and pay rent, or move out. 3 options. Her decision. If she chooses none of the above, stop supporting her. No money. No outings. Very basic, generic, necessities. No extras. Itis your job to teach her to be a responsible adult. So far, she isn't. It's time for her to learn.
I recently heard about [healthy gamer](https://www.healthygamer.gg/about-us) a resource for parents of gaming addicts, it might be useful for you.
This girl has comfortably settled in and with zero responsibilities, why would she want to move out? Mom and dad take care of everything. Turn off her internet access so she can't game. That's the majority of her problem right there. And I wouldn't bother with all the chores. I'd give her a specific date to move out. Give her a few months so she can find a job and find a place. But hold to that date, and if she hasn't found a job or place to live, that's her problem. Out she goes.
NTA but enabling her is not going to help her in the long run. I would start by cutting out your daughter’s WiFi access. My guess is that she has become addicted to video games. Tell her that she needs to get a job and pay for her own WiFi from now on. Second, I would stop paying for all her eating out or clothes saying you cannot afford that. She needs to start working and pay for that stuff on her own. She might scream, yell, cry - but you need to be nice but firm about it. Then after a few weeks, I would find a couple of cheap rental places and tell her that she needs to move and start her own life. At every stage try and have a conversation with her about it. That you are not abandoning her but rather equipping her for becoming independent. It is your responsibility as a good parent to do this. Insist on having dinner together without electronics at least once a week if not daily. Keep the communication lines open while forcing the changes on her. Parenting is a tough job. Hang in there. All the best!
You're not helping - you're crippling her. A young person who won't get a driver's license when given a car needs a poke in the ribs.
Dude. Agreed. Wtf is wrong with kids. As soon as I knew I could drive I wanted my license.
I hear you - when we were young, we wanted to get into the world: We wanted to buy cars, get jobs, by houses, go to school, get married, etc. So many of these kids just don't seem to have any pep.
Updateme!
I gotta wait for my wife to return home from her trip in a couple of days
NTA. Have you thought about getting her into counseling and therapy though as well as making her take employment ?
NTA You are 100% correct that she needs some structure, and what you're proposing is likely to provide the same. If you think it will be beneficial, and this isn't just punitive, then that course of action is best. A couple of caveats to that though: 1. Its rent or chores, not both. If she starts paying rent as expected, you can't reasonably expect her to pick up the household responsibilities as well. 2. If your end goal is to get her moved out, she will need a job to do so. Make sure that any regime you put in place doesn't unduly interfere with her ability to work, and consider making allowances in the schedule you build if she needs the time for a job.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful response! Adding structure to her life is a great way of phrasing that. I agree with your caveats as well, but not entirely. While I completely agree that household chores shouldn’t interfere with any possible job, I don’t think it should be one or the other. Plenty of people work full time and still do chores around home. A good balance can be found between the two especially when shared amongst 3 adults. We would absolutely give her less tasks to do around home if she were employed.
Exactly. Assign her to plan, buy and prepare dinner a few nights a week (like she would have to if she moved out). Have her take on some chores too. The goal is self sufficiency not further coddling.
I'm not arguing with you at all about the split between chores and a job - you're absolutely right, everyone generally does both. But, just consider your purpose here: Are you trying to get some help with chores? Or are you trying to get her out of the house and stable enough to live on her own? If the answer to the first question is yes, then you're in the clear to do whatever. If you agree with the second answer however, you should abate the chores significantly if she's working. That way she's not turning down shifts/focusing on her job over household responsibilities/etc., which will get her to a place where she's capable of moving out a lot quicker. She can learn how to do all the normal human adult stuff quickly when she's on her own, most people do. Having the stability of a job is way more important, as she is literally incapable of supporting herself without one.
We want her out and stable enough to live on her own. We know it’s not an overnight process and we should’ve started years ago but again, better late than never. I’d like to start her off with a good amount of house chores. Like you said, it would provide structure and discipline that would hopefully translate to her work life. She’d be expected to apply for jobs while still completing said chores. However once she finds a job, we’d take away any home responsibilities that interfered with her working and ensure her primary focus was her job.
NTA Kick her ass out. And what does her being "sensitive" have anything do with anything? She cries at the drop of a hat. Of course, she does. It has worked for her all her life. Why would she stop now? Socrates said many years ago: # “Trust not a woman when she weeps, for it is her nature to weep when she wants her will.”
Well I guess to expand on her being sensitive, she has diagnosed anxiety and depression that she’s medicated for. But that’s hardly an excuse. Just makes things a bit tougher for her that’s all.