YTA. Your bff’s wife has never even said “hello” to your fiance? Has actively ignored her but no one else….And you’re okay with that?
Look, you can’t and shouldn’t expect someone else’s behavior to change.
But you can be on Sadie’s side by saying - yeah, she sucks and is rude, who the hell doesn’t even acknowledge another human being in the room! I wish I could not invite her, but Brad is my best man, I don’t know what to do. I want to make you happy, and I wish Evelyn would stop being a b!tch (your words), but I just don’t know what to do. Can we figure something out together?
This isn’t about Evelyn. It’s about YOU being on Sadie’s side, seeing her side, understanding her feelings, and supporting her.
If it were me, I’d have called Evelyn and Brad out a long time ago just to get to the bottom of this. Sadie has a lot more restraint and maturity than you, your bff and his wife.
I guess they really need to talk through it and see if it’s a requirement that OP cut out his bff if the wife continues acting like this, because that very well might be the outcome if he disinvites the wife.
In fact, almost certainly will be the outcome.
I don’t know. I’m kinda on the E S H except for your train.
I don’t think you’re in the wrong for not wanting to put Brad in that position, especially as he’s your best man. That being said, if Evelyn truly has been that unwelcoming to Sadie and all the other wives are following Evelyn’s lead - I wouldn’t want that person at my wedding either.
You sir, are in a lose-lose situation. And I have no suggestions how to fix it. Maaaaybe talking to Brad and let him know how Sadie is feeling might help, but if he’s already been laughing it off when you’ve brought it to his attention, I don’t know. (That being said I’d probably be pretty pissed if my best friend laughed off my partners feelings).
Edit: after reading your comments, I’m absolutely adding in that you’re included in my ESH judgement. Evelyn isn’t just being unwelcoming she’s full on ignoring Sadie’s existence, and Brad is enabling her childish behaviour at every turn. She doesn’t have to like Sadie, nor does she owe her friendship - however, I would like to think she does owe her the courtesy of politeness and a simple hello when she can talk to the other wives in the group. At first I was like, Sadie should “suck it up” on this one, but no - if Evelyn can’t be bothered to acknowledge her existence, I absolutely agree with Sadie that she should not come. Why are you okay with Sadie being disrespected by your friends (because Brad is also disrespecting her by enabling Evelyn. So are your other friends + wives when they go along with it).
agree. his entire friend group has iced her out. he hangs out with all of them regularly without her. like how old are these people? of course she doesn’t want a group of mean girls at her wedding, but not inviting them is clearly not a real solution. like i guess she just needs to suck this up for the rest of her life because this man has done the bare minimum to try to stand up for her in this situation… if these were truly his lifelong friends you would think they could work it out…
> his entire friend group has iced her out.
He's also absolutely downplaying it because he didn't post that Evelyn won't even say hello to his fiancee in the post, but in a comment.
He doesn't want it to become an issue for him, he doesn't give two shits about Sadie's comfort.
I made a suggestion that they just ice HER out. He said the other wives are nicer but follow her lead so I suggested a seating plan for the wedding where she is seated with the most boring people, the most chatty people (as she doesn’t like talking) the most ugly people (as she’s very looks oriented) or the oldest or youngest guests. She won’t know until she gets to the reception so if she doesn’t like it and storms out it won’t matter because the best man has already stood with his mate for the ceremony.
OP sounds so ridiculous in the comments that I'm getting massive rage bait vibes.
>It comes down to caring about having my best friend from childhood there, and I am just struggling to see why this is so important as to lose that friendship. With so many guests neither of us is going to be personally close to everyone in attendance but that seems normal to me
I think he's in a lose lose situation because he has crappy friends. OP, don't invite anyone to your wedding who is rude to your future wife or who has been unsupportive of the relationship. That's just a bare minimum level of respect.
If Brad won't come if his wife cannot, then too bad. He married someone rude and these are the consequences. Moving forward you can hang out with Brad one on one so your fiancee doesn't have to put up with Evelyn.
Agreed 💯. I just edited my comment to say basically this. His friends do not respect his partner and I fully understand her request after reading his comments!
He’s in a lose lose situation because he hasn’t really tried to deal with it at any point. His friends wife is super rude to his girlfriend at many many social events and he ‘gently raised’ it as he doesn’t want to upset Brad.
This is pretty lucid. OP must respect his fiancee's feelings. But there is room for OP to make a final salvage.
Confront Brad about his wife. Do not allow the "awe shucks, thats just her". This is the point. It is her!
He'll need to get Brad to speak with his wife (presuming he has any influence there) and point out she's a total cunt to OP's fiancee. (since he's best man I can't imagine close friends where one's wife is such a bitch to the other's).
Somehow he has to accept he can either get his wife to stop being a cunt, or she'll not go to the wedding (she'll probably be thrilled), and if this is going to cause a rift, better to get that resolved now.
That’s the point I just don’t get. Why is anyone okay with how Sadie is being treated?
I’m not “friends” with my partners significant others, but we can still be friendly with each other and acknowledge each other.
I wouldn’t dream of treating the partner of my husbands best friend this way. And I wouldn’t let my friends significant others treat my partner this way.
OP used the phrase "selective mutism". This is a symptom - Is Evelyn autistic? If so she can't help it. He says she just "gives a vibe" which also sounds like how people see autistic people. Maybe the rest of the women know but not Sadie.
OP says he thinks selective mutism, given how easily he brushes of the fact that Brad laughs it off.. I’m not so sure. She makes plans and talks to the other wives in the group but actively ignores Sadie’s existence to the point she won’t even give her a simple hello. I’m sorry, even people who are autistic will give the courtesy of a simple hello, especially in a group.
And if it’s been brought up to Brad, to get to the point that it has gotten to, Brad should have said something because Evelyn sounds incredibly disrespectful based on OPs comments
Not all people with autism have this. Look up the condition - I don't think you even have to be autistic to have it. The selective part can mean they can't talk to specific people for no obvious reason. No amount of saying something would do anything. I wasn't sure if OP heard the term from Brad and didn't know what it is. Because if he knew what it is, and suspected it, he wouldn't have called Evelyn a bitch.
I’m not disagreeing with you on that, and you’re correct that he wouldn’t call her a bitch if he knew what it was.
To me, based on his comments, she sounds like a bitch who doesn’t like his partner and is enabled by basically everyone around her.
It’s not a “symptom,” it’s a separate diagnosis. It’s also not part of autism. It’s possible to have both, but they’re separate things and you can have SM while not being autistic.
Thanks - I used the wrong word. And at the time I didn't realize it wasn't associated with autism - I saw people on the autism forums talk about having this, that was how I knew about it. Regardless it seems plausible she has this.
There's actually a fair bit of misinformation about it in autism spaces at the moment. Some autistic people experience episodes of mutism for different reasons, like during a shutdown. There was a lot of disagreements over what to call that, and SM got mixed up in the debates as something that shared the symptom of temporary mutism. There ended up being people who misunderstood and ended up spreading incorrect definitions and actively encouraged people to use the term incorrectly (to replace the use of "going nonverbal"). It's not as bad as it used to be, and some autistic people do genuinely have it, but that confusion and the resulting misinformation is definitely still around as well.
There's a [wiki page](https://reddit.com/r/selectivemutism/w/index) on the [r/selectivemutism](https://www.reddit.com/r/selectivemutism) sub that has a few links about it, with [this one](https://selectivemutismcenter.org/whatisselectivemutism/) being quite detailed, and [this one](http://www.ispeak.org.uk/Overview.aspx) being a shorter overview. It's an anxiety disorder and is usually closely related to social anxiety.
Agree it could be possible she has it, but there wasn't really enough information in the post to be sure.
YTA, but the information doesn't come from the post for me saying that. It comes from your one comment.
>She just never talks to Sadie, like ever. She doesn't talk to a lot of people so it isn't personal, but she doesn't even usually greet her.
This woman doesn't even acknowledge your fiancee's existence at gatherings, not even a fucking "hello," and you think your fiancee is being unreasonable for not wanting someone who literally pretends she doesn't exist at your wedding?
YTA. You expect your fiancee to be ok with someone who refuses to even acknowledge her attending her wedding, that's a big no. They don't have to be friends and chatty cathy's together, but a polite hello is not an unrealistic expectation.
Good grief, this is a tough one. Obviously, the wedding day will belong to both of you and neither of you should be made to feel uncomfortable at your own wedding. Ideally, you should be able to have your best friend and his wife attend your wedding, but if the wife is a problem for your fiance, then she (Evelyn) is the problem.
I can see only two options, and admittedly, neither is ideal:
1. You have a serious chat with Brad. You tell him that you greatly value his friendship and want him to be your best man, but that Sadie feels a lot of animosity coming from Evelyn, that you've seen it and you've also seen how it influences the other wives. He can either speak with Evelyn and she makes an effort not to be so miserable or he comes stag.
2. You skip the chat with Brad and go directly to Evelyn. You explain that you really want to have Brad as your best man, but you've noticed that Evelyn seems to have a problem with Sadie. You tell her that since it's Sadie's day, you hope that she can be gracious on your wedding day, or at the very least, avoid Sadie. Then pray.
I am somewhat concerned by your last sentence, however. You make it sound like your priority is having Brad as your best man. It should be the other way around, that you want Brad as your best man, but you can't imagine Sadie not enjoying her wedding day. If your priority is to have Brad as your best man, then you would be TAH.
You need new friends, if Evelyn et al are mean to your wife, then they are not your friends.
YWBTA if you invite any of them. I get it’s your day too, but you don’t want Sadie upset or uncomfortable on your wedding day.
Bro I meant this respectfully but if you don’t think you’re the asshole at all, why are you here? You keep downplaying Sadie’s feelings about being disrespected and ignored and when she tells you that she doesn’t want someone like that at her wedding, you still want that person to be there.
Couples counseling or pre-marital counseling is probably better than asking for strangers’ input about this very specific, very delicate topic.
Do you even love Sadie? Because you socialize with the people who are *very wrongfully* being cold to her. Because of the Queen of the social group? Wow. Your “friends”, by extension you, are horrible people.
YTA.
Do Sadie a favor and break it off until you can grow up and no longer associate with the people who ignore your fiancée.
Yta- realise you’re in a tight spot / but based on your comments:
1) Evelyn has been ignoring your wife at multiple social events over time, so as to not even acknowledge her existence despite being friendly with everyone else there, and you’ve ‘gently broached’ it with Brian and not explained how difficult it is for Sadie, and therefore you? You should have seen this as an issue just in your hangouts and dealt with it for your wife - and at least realised it would be in an issue at the wedding without her having to tell you!
2) you STILL haven’t mentioned to Brian about how Sadie- the bride and your fiancé- doesn’t want someone apparently hostile to her existence at her wedding? (Evelyn doesn’t need to be fake friends with sadie - but ignoring her existence is not neatrul)
You’re marrying Sadie - try and see it from her pov and have a proper conversation with Brian about what the issue is and how hurtful it is and what he can do about it. if he really is your best man he shouldn’t be adding to your stress.
If it is an anxiety issue triggered by maybe Sadie for what ever reason- maybe Evelyn is looking for an excuse to not go. I mean why would she want to if Sadie is so triggering..
YTA who are you marrying???
You talk to Brad and tell him you love and appreciate him but you won't stand for Evelyn's disrespect towards Sadie anymore.
Gentle YTA. I’m noticing you’re not giving a lot of power to Brad here—why is your instinct to tell Sadie to tolerate Evelyn’s presence and not to tell Brad to explain the situation to Evelyn and show up solo for his best friend? If Evelyn really doesn’t like Sadie, why is it so important that she be at her wedding?
Here’s the deal. Evelyn is allowed to not talk to anyone she doesn’t want to, but there are consequences to that and one of those is she’s not going to get invited to places.
If her parents/spouse/therapist have explained this to her and she’s still chosen to openly ignore and be rude to people she doesn’t want to interact, she shouldn’t be surprised that this is going to be the result, and neither should her husband. This is your day, but it’s also your fiancée’s and it’s obvious that Evelyn makes her uncomfortable.
Evelyn climbs into her husband’s lap and puts her head down? She has issues with eating food? Did your friend marry someone who is mentally disabled? This sounds super alarming.
Also, YTA. Evelyn sounds like someone who would cause issues at a wedding. Your fiancée has major issues with her and for good reason. She shouldn’t be invited and your friend needs to understand that.
Yta. This woman has gone out of her way to make your wife feel like shit. To make her feel unwelcome and uncomfortable. Your wife has put up with quite enough and she has the right to not want that woman at her wedding.
Prioritise your woman, man. It's the only thing you can do. Maybe it'll make your buddy think on his relationship too. Whatever, your lady comes first. End of story. It's not your friend that's the problem. Make that clear to him. Your SO's not being unreasonable either. There's only one choice.
Simply put OP, do you want to risk “Evelyn” attempting to upstage your wife at your wedding? It’s that simple. Because there’s no coming back from that.
As an aside, I can’t wait for Sadie’s post in wedding shaming where she details “Evelyn’s” meangirlness at her wedding and how her marriage didn’t even make it to the honeymoon.
Questions: Have you asked Sadie what she hopes uninviting them will do? She recognizes that this will most likely end everything, right? Is she hoping a discussion comes from it? Have you ever asked Brad if he and Evelyn have issues with Sadie?
I get Sadie's perspective in that I wouldn't want a person i perceive as rude at my wedding. At the same time, she sounds like she tries WAY too hard and cares too much. I don't know if it's because of the kind of emphasis you put on these friendships or if Sadie has no friends of her own. It sucks to feel the odd man out.
Sadie seems to expect a lot from people. At the same time, Brad seems to be trying to deflect from the problem. Are you really not able to have a conversation with your "best friend" to find some sort of neutral ground?
Honestly, it seems like Sadie and Evelyn both expect people to just be fine with whatever way they are, which is putting tension on the original friendships involved. Let's say none of them like Sadie, then why should they come to the wedding of someone they don't like? Why should you have to pay for it? If there was some actual honesty from Brad, maybe Evelyn gets to do something else she prefers, and Sadie doesn't have her at the wedding.
So, going forward-- Sadie likely won't be invited to any parties Brad and Ev host-- but she agrees now that you will be absolutely free to attend those parties without her and she won't ever complain--right< LOL.
>So, Sadie is completely delusional, then. Gotcha.
Nah, OP's burying the lede in comments.
>She just never talks to Sadie, like ever. She doesn't talk to a lot of people so it isn't personal, **but she doesn't even usually greet her.**
The woman doesn't even acknowledge her presence in the same room, it's not just, "doesn't want to be her friend."
YTA - Maybe you'll get lucky and Evelyn will like your next fiancée, because I give about a 99% chance your marriage is going to fail, if it even happens at this point. You hang out with your group of friends a couple of times a month where she is blatantly unwelcome. You are unwilling to say or do anything for your wife if it risks upsetting Brad. Evelyn never speaks to your wife, at all. You know this, Brad knows this, and Evelyn knows this. It should be no shock at all to tell Brad that his wife isn't welcome since she's been a complete bitch to your wife for no reason. And to top t all off, *you're* upset with *her* for not prioritizing *your* feelings!?
Why is she marrying you?
Sincerely hope the reception seating is bridal party at the head table, their plus ones at different tables. Seat Evelyn with the drunk uncle and the born again proselytizing cousin as well as the ocd vegan friend and the biker club member.
YTA Please tell this to your GF so she has a chance to call off the wedding. She deserves someone in her life who will care enough about her to stand up for her not put her in situations where she'll be bullied on her wedding day.
If what she has is actually [selective mutism](http://www.ispeak.org.uk/Overview.aspx), it wouldn’t be that she doesn’t want to talk or is intentionally trying to ignore people. While I get what you’re saying that it can give off “bad vibes,” and it might come across as being rude or unwelcoming, it’s not really like that at all for the person experiencing it. Rather, SM is usually related to severe social anxiety, and thats just how their body responds to that anxiety. I have it myself and have been told been told multiple times before that I give off an unfriendly, “go away” vibe around strangers, but it’s not like I’m trying to come across that way. Actually, I do want to talk to people, but physically can’t force myself to. While I don’t know the exact situation, and perhaps you’ve missed something out in the post, but it’s a bit extreme to jump into calling her a “mean girl” and a “bitch” just because she feels off and doesn’t talk much if she hasn’t even really done anything else to warrant being thought of that way.
It might be beneficial to try to get to the bottom of why Evelyn acts that way, and whether or not it’s actually intentional behaviour, as that might help your fiancee understand a little better. If you’re uncomfortable around her, you could always ask your friend if he has any idea why. While both yours and your fiances feelings are valid, it would be a bit unfair to fault her for something she might not even realise she’s doing if you haven’t even tried to talk to her about it.
It really comes down to who do you care to have at your wedding? Sadie or Evelyn? You are picking one over the other and your choice will likely determine whether or not you actually get married.
You are getting married. If your future wife isn't the most important person in your life (more so than Brad) you shouldn't get married. It is bonkers you insist inviting someone who completely ignores your wife and makes her feel like shit. YTA
It is important because you are saying he is more important than your wife. That is fine if that is your choice. She has the right to decide she doesn’t want to be married to someone where she is not their top priority. And honestly you should not be marrying her if your friend is more important to you.
You didn't answer the question. Do her friends treat you like s*it? Do they make you feel inferior or less than, like, they are better than you?
And whether Evelyn talks to you or ignores you is not what this is about as it doesn't bother you, but it bothers your fiancée! And it's not just that Evelyn doesn't talk to her, but she presents herself like your fiancé is beneath her.
Not prioritizing your feelings that your friend is more important to you than her? I’m confused how she isn’t prioritizing your feelings. Honestly you should both get to veto people being at your wedding. The only 2 people who should matter should be you and her. That is clearly not the case with the 2 of you and I am guessing you will not be getting married or you will be divorced within a year. Being married means putting the two of you first, always. And it is clear you are not willing to do that for her. Not sure about her as you haven’t gone into any details about people in her life you feel are a problem. But you know this person is and you are still saying that having Evelyn there is more important than your wife on your wedding day.
Has Sadie articulated SPECIFICALLY what Evelyn has "done" to her? Is this maybe a mental health issue where she's just abnormally sensitive? Does she realize that when your best friend/Best man isn't at the wedding the rest of the friend group is going to want to know why (or likely will already know why) and it's going to make Sadie look a bit unhinged?
So, is this going to happen at your wedding? Like, is she going to just climb on her husbands lap at some point and just put her head down?
She’s just not going to speak to / congratulate the bride?
The more I read your comments about Evelyn the more I can somewhat understand where Sadie is coming from.
"Being married means putting the two of you first, always."
If this is true, then OPs fiance should ALSO be putting him first and she isn't. She's being incredibly selfish. He isn't choosing between his fiance and anyone. He's asking her to put aside her discomfort (especially given there will be VERY little chance of her spending any significant amount of time with Evelyn) for one day so that he doesn't have to destroy a lifelong friendship. Because that is a likely outcome if he tells his best friend his wife can't come. There's no indication that Evelyn will make a scene or try to ruin the day. She simply won't talk as much as OPs fiance thinks she should. Maybe the fiance should put aside her own ego for the day. It's absurd to place one day above the rest of their lives, which is what the fiance is doing. She's saying her comfort on this one day should outweigh the pain OP will almost certainly suffer for the rest of his life if he loses his best friend over this.
>It comes down to caring about having my best friend from childhood there, and I am just struggling to see why this is so important as to lose that friendship. With so many guests neither of us is going to be personally close to everyone in attendance but that seems normal to me
Oh yeah, this is just silly little rage bait.
But you will speak to almost everyone at least once. Brad is your best man, it stands to reason that time *will* be spent around Evelyn. Is she just not going to speak to the bride?
If your fiancée had a male high school friend who was an AH to you, and you both didn't get along, could you ignore him at the wedding, especially if he came to chat with your wife throughout the reception and want to dance with her?
You are not even acknowledging your wife's feelings. Even if there are 100 people at the wedding, it's the principle of this woman being there.
I don't think that your wife can just ignore her or not let it affect her. She cried to you, which tells me that she is truly stressed and upset about it, enough to distract her from enjoying her wedding.
It may not be a big deal to you, but it is to her, so talk to your friend about how your wife feels. Have a serious discussion whereby you're not laughing and telling jokes, but make it clear that it's deeply upsetting your wife.
You are supposed to be looking out for your fiancée. Her feelings should matter to you. And before you say they do, then SHOW it. Stop making excuses and stop trying to rationalize it because it doesn't bother you.
Edit.
Okay, roles reversed and Sadie treated Evelyn the way she’s being treated. And Evelyn was hurt. And Brad brought it up to you multiple times. Would you laugh it off?
It's not about wanting to dance with you! You have your friend Brad there. You get along with him. You feel comfortable with him. Evelyn will be around him and probably sitting nearby, but she doesn't bother you. You can ignore her because it's easy for you to do.
Your fiancée is not comfortable with Evelyn's presence. This was the point of me asking you! If your fiancée had a male friend that you didn't like and perceived as an AH, how would you feel? The dance is about your fiancée's friend spending time with her and IT bothering you! It's a hypothetical situation.
Is your finance's wife autistic? The mutism and food sensitivities are interesting characteristics. If your bff's wife has a disability, your finance might not take the situation so personally.
At the same time, your future wife's comfort on her big day is important too. It really boils down to can your fiance ignore your bff's wife and have a fun day or will this situation affect her joy on her wedding ay.
I understand your perspective as well. You sound like you can easily compartmentalize your relationship with your bff's wife. As women, our right/left brain connection makes compartmentalization more difficult
Do you have a premarital counselor who could help two reach a compromise that makes you both happy?
YTA. Your partner is supposed to come first and you’re showing her that her feelings do not matter so long as you get to have your friend, who enables his wife to come. You say it’s selective mutism, but there are ways to be friendly w/o speaking. Body language is a big one, a smile can be a greeting without words.
Evelyn ices your wife out and you continue to associate with this friend group. Your wife is spot on about the mean girl comment as Evelyn acts like Regina George and the other two wives just follow along. You need to put your partner first and if Sadie were to post I’d tell her to seriously postponing the wedding or calling it off all together.
She is supposed to be your priority. Act like it.
YTA.
If you can't sit down with your best mate and address why his missus is being a dog to the woman you'll be (hopefully) spending the rest of your life with, then don't be surprised when your girl eventually starts to resent you.
You can't force someone (Evelyn) to change their behaviour or attitude, but you CAN address issues as they arise, to show Sadie you side with her and have her back no matter what. Prioritising Brad and Evelyn's feelings over Sadie is shitty.
I eloped with my husband for kinda this exact reason. Your wedding day should 100% without a doubt be about the two people getting married, not some grumpy little toad.
Yeah, that's quite a pickle your in. In your shoes, I'd feel my first duty was towards my wife-to-be. If you want a shot at salvaging the situation, you'd have to make absolutely sure to let her know that first. Tell her you're willing to uninvite Evelyn and deal with the fallout from Brad and the rest of the friend group if it comes to that. Make sure she abolutely believes that. And you're not as good as a liar as you think you are, so you'd absolutely be believing it yourself too.
MAYBE then she'll offer, or you can ask her, to do you a big favour and accept bitchface at her wedding to make things easier.
Really not sure how to vote here, but if your wife doesn't want her at your wedding, then don't invite her. **BUT** there is a normal expection that you would invite someone's spouse, especially if its your best man.
Talk to your friend ask if there is any reason why his wife doesn't like you both, the fact she doesn't talk to either of you, means you don't have a relationship and as such she is not invited.
but you need to have the full expectation that he will not attend the wedding if his wife is not invited.
The question is knowing the situation why did you ask Brad to be your best man? If you want your marriage to start off well you're going to have to have a wedding without Brad and Evelyn. If Brad is more important to you than Sadie it is good that she knows now before the wedding. Interesting that you are "gentle" with Brad but dismissive of Sadie. Who are you in love with again?
This is your and your fiancées wedding and honestly it’s unfair to ask her to put up with someone who makes her uncomfortable on her wedding day. Hopefully her *only* wedding day. She’s going to be a mess if she’s actively dreading dealing with this woman. I wouldn’t call you an AH because I understand your predicament but if there is a way to keep this woman away I’d do it.
I probably have the odd ball opinion. I think your wife needs to figure out why this person’s attention or validation matter to her. I think y’all could also be judging the wife a little too harshly, you said she just has this b*tchy air but hasn’t really done anything?? How long have your best friend and her been married? Does your wife actually try to have a relationship with her or the other wives? Or is she just expecting to be invited or included into the group chats? Either there is something wrong and it might take time for his wife to come around, or she’s being a b*tch. BUT, I can honestly say that I would never ask this of my husband. Your wife is giving this way to much power over her. Maybe it is selective mutism, or autism, or a long list of other things. Maybe the wife and your bride to be are giving off funky vibes/energy to each other??
I would tell Brad how Sadie feels and ask if he’s willing (and thinks your friendship and his best man role is worthy enough) to look at ways to build a bridge between your respective partners. Sadie could agree to give it a try if Evelyn agrees to give it a try. And you wouldn’t be asking them to be besties, just two women willing to put aside differences for a day (for now) and be respectful and gracious (Evelyn) and hospitable (Sadie) at the wedding because that’s what they should do for the men they love
He's gone... Hopefully, he takes many of the comments supporting his fiancée into consideration.
It's a shame that she didn't read his post and comments.
YTA and this issue might cost your relationship. Evelyn doesn't even acknowledge your Fiancée existence at gatherings. How much do you really wanna be married to Sadie? Be honest with yourself.
This is so hard to comment on without witnessing the behaviour. I am very much authentic and won’t pretend to like people I don’t. I will be polite and warm but discourage closeness/connection. So if it’s that, then good for Evelyn, but if she’s being rude and making your fiancé uncomfortable intentionally then that’s different.
Do you have examples of interactions? Saying iced out is so vague
It’s nuts that everyone is saying that his fiancée is in the wrong. He sucks as well because why are you fighting so hard to have his best friend at his wedding when his wife is disrespecting your fiancée. He said that when his fiancée speaks she turns her head. In addition, he is delusional if he thinks that his best friend won’t drop him in a millisecond for his wife.
Everyone's saying the fiancee is wrong isn't reading OP's comments because he completely buried the lede. He made it sound like this woman is simply polite and cordial in the post.
This is such creepy behavior. It’s something a very small child/toddler would do. I would feel weirded out that my friend wanted to be sexually intimate with someone that regularly acted like a toddler in public. Honestly the whole relationship seems creepy and if I was in your wife’s shoes I wouldn’t want to have to deal with that at the wedding or my family asking me who this weird couple is that’s doing this and why. I’d think people would see that and start worrying about how someone who acts like they are stunted at the mental age of a 5-6 year old can consent as an adult and why an adult would be attracted to that.
She doesn’t owe Sadie friendship but it would be reasonable to have a boundary that she has to make effort with both the bride and groom on their own wedding day. If she can’t do that then she’s not invited. It’s not too much to ask. The rest of the time, it’s up to her who she gives her energy to
That is such strange behaviour. I think you should talk to your best friend and ask him to speak with his wife and set some boundaries for the wedding day. It’s the bare minimum to have her greet the bride and tell her she looks beautiful/congratulations. If she can’t agree to do that and treat her warmly on her own wedding day then she’s not welcome.
If on the day that boundary is not stuck to, Evelyn is asked to leave. And you stick to that. That would be my opinion.
Choosing not to make effort with her the rest of the time is totally up to her but would be totally unacceptable on Sadies wedding day.
I really think you need to take charge here and reassure Sadie that it’s dealt with
NTA
She should have brought this up when you discussed the wedding parties, not after having a best man.
These women haven’t done anything to your wife. They’re just not interested in being more than acquaintances with her.
Most weddings have guests, especially plus ones, that are acquaintances to one or both people getting married.
> They’re just not interested in being more than acquaintances with her.
They aren't even interested in that, the one he's specifically asking about doesn't even acknowledge her presence. I really disagree with your NTA statement on that alone, but he didn't put that in the post but in a comment.
So you would prefer to stand with your best man at the altar whose wife ignores the existence of your partner, not with Sadie. Problem solved: Don’t get married.
YTA
NTA. By your own admission, Evelyn hasn't done or said anything wrong and it isn't her job to make your fiance feel welcome. Clearly her husband, the other two wives don't have a problem with her. Quite honestly, just based on your post, you and your fiance sound like the mean girls here. By challenging your best mate about your perception of his wife's "behaviour", you've probably already pissed him off. Why would your risk losing him completely by uninviting her.
OP's comment on her behavior toward his fiance:
"I do think she has selective mutism. I'm not sure how much she can control or not because sometimes she seems to be giggling and enjoying it, but at the same time I think it is a real issue because she has done it in serious situations (like making her husband look like an abuser at the hospital because she didn't feel like speaking, so of course the nurses were concerned he was speaking for her, then she got offended when they questioned her. she had legitimately hurt herself but didn't feel like explaining)
She just never talks to Sadie, like ever. She doesn't talk to a lot of people so it isn't personal, but she doesn't even usually greet her. She never tries to include her in conversations, and when sadie talks, Evelyn seems in her own world. She will climb on her husband and put her head down while people are talking.
She also plans outings with the other two wives and never invites Sadie"
So your description is of a woman who doesn't do anything wrong and is quiet to the point you think she has elective mutism. Your friend says you and your fiancee 'try to make her speak when she doesn't want to.' and your fiancee is the one who is upset that she can't force Evelyn to be what she wants her to be in her life. Sounds to me like your fiancee is trying to push a relationship on her...why is she entitled to one?
It doesn't sound like Evelyn is a mean girl. More like your fiancé is being pushy and demanding of someone who wants nothing to do with her, as is her right. Just because the husbands are friends doesn't mean the wives are obligated to be.
Unless there are instances of actually bullying not listed here, your fiance is the one causing problems. Being standoffish, rich, and silent is not a crime. Tell your fiancé to make her own friends instead of trying to poach Evelyn's.
Or maybe not. She doesn't sound very mature and probably wouldn't take anything other than "yes, dear" well. Good luck with that.
Sounds like these are her husbands core group of friends and this issue is causing her to feel unwelcome around them. She probably has her own friends (since there is a wedding party) but is tired of feeling like the odd person out when OPs friend group gets together.
I mean he has said Evelyn has never even really acknowledged her existence or spoken to her.
NTA
Invite your friend and his wife. By your own story Evelyn has literally done nothing. Her being rich and/or wealthy is irrelevant. Is your wife welcoming to her. I doubt it since she doesn't like her.
Your entire reason against her is the air/vibe she gives off yet has literally done nothing. Then your 2 friends wives enjoy her company more than your fiance
Maybe it's your fiances issue as opposed to Evelyn's. If Evelyn and the friend exclude her for different reasons there is 1 commonality, your wife
His comment about Evelyn's behavior:
"I do think she has selective mutism. I'm not sure how much she can control or not because sometimes she seems to be giggling and enjoying it, but at the same time I think it is a real issue because she has done it in serious situations (like making her husband look like an abuser at the hospital because she didn't feel like speaking, so of course the nurses were concerned he was speaking for her, then she got offended when they questioned her. she had legitimately hurt herself but didn't feel like explaining)
She just never talks to Sadie, like ever. She doesn't talk to a lot of people so it isn't personal, but she doesn't even usually greet her. She never tries to include her in conversations, and when sadie talks, Evelyn seems in her own world. She will climb on her husband and put her head down while people are talking.
She also plans outings with the other two wives and never invites Sadie"
Has no one stopped to consider that *Sadie* is the problem, not Evelyn and the other women? Evelyn is obviously able to be friends with and talk to everyone else...
NTA. You need to speak to Sadie. This wedding is not just her wedding, it’s your wedding too. You need your best man there so Evil-in is prerequisite to that happening. She is not part of the wedding party so suggest to Sadie that she seats her not with people she knows but with the most boring people who are attending the wedding. Or the oldest / youngest ones. Or make an ugly table and stick her there.
There are so many ways that you can have your best man there and your new wife can feel happy.
The selective mutism thing can be your wife’s ace in the hole. She could make sure that E is placed between the two most talkative people she knows. She can spend weeks making sure that she has a fabulous day whilst also making sure that E spends as little time near her as possible. It’ll be fun.
Edit: forgot to add, don’t discuss the seating plan beforehand. If E storms off because she isn’t the centre of attention when she realises what’s happening it won’t matter because you got your best man for the ceremony and Sadie got a happy win.
NTA
He’s your best friend and best man you can’t really tell him he can’t bring his wife.
I’ve been in Sadie’s shoes and I can’t stand women like Evelyn and company. Honestly, the fact that Sadie has continued to try and be friends while being excluded makes me wonder why you continue to try and force the situation.
Yes they’re your friends, but you’re marrying Sadie. Why haven’t you put some distance with your friends? Do you expect Sadie to invite them over and play happy hostess? If you had put some distance in the relationships with your friends and not put Sadie in these uncomfortable situations, she may have been able to look past the wedding guest issue.
I don’t see a way to make her happy about this for the wedding, but maybe give her some space from them so seeing them once in a while doesn’t have them same effect on her.
Uhm…you’re kinda clueless. You see your friends but your fiancée doesn’t have to go? You have fun with you your friends but your fiancée is iced out so she can just stay home. No harm no foul? You really don’t see a problem? Your are a couple and should both be included in your circle of friends. I think you and your fiancée need some new friends.
Because she is influencing the rest to exclude her as well, not be friendly. It’s a click, no one new (girlfriend) is welcome. Very middle school, but some people never grow up.
Or she simply doesn't fit in. I think op's fiancee is in blame mode and wants to think that the quiet one is on this crusade to keep her out and the other women have zero agency and just go along with this diabolical plan like clueless sheep.
Bottom line: Op's fiancee is not owed/entitled to relationships with his friends' SOs. (Also that's not an answer to my question.)
Except OP said in the beginning…. Evelyn who I will admit is a bitch.
She is not owed a friendship, but if they are all together and none of the women speak to his wife unless Evelyn leaves, something isn’t right.
So op thinks she's a bitch but what's the next part immediately after that? "To be fair she doesn't even do much, she just has this air..." Op makes it clear she doesn't do anything but because she's not buddy buddy with fiancee and fiancee is angry about it, op is supporting fiancee even though he clearly admits 'she doesn't even do much' And yes, fiancee's not owed these relationships. That's pretty much the end of it for me.
This is such a manipulative comment. She isn’t stopping you from seeing your best friend, she is asking for a bit of respect and common decency. Evelyn doesn’t even greet her with a hello.
No she is asking you to make her a priority, it’s like you are deliberately being obtuse, hopefully your reaction to her boundaries at such an important event is enough to show her that she deserves better. I highly doubt that if this was you coming to her she wouldn’t 100 percent back you up. The matter of the fact is you are more worried about your best friend not coming than getting married and that’s a problem. If you have actually brought this up to him before then he shouldn’t even expect his wife to be invited considering how rude she is.
What are you talking about? You literally said she speaks to the other wives and they follow her lead when she’s around by not talking to Sadie? At the end of the day, if she can’t even fake politeness at someone’s wedding (let alone any other time) she absolutely should not be invited. Brad is enabling her and he’s showing you that he doesn’t respect your partner.
It's not just about speaking. Your fiancée doesn't feel comfortable around her at all. Non-verbal cues can speak volumes as well as someone's energy when in the room, like when she doesn't acknowledge your fiancée, she sits on her husband's lap and ignores your fiancée while she is trying to engage with her or how Evelyn makes Sadie feel like she's not good enough.
You don’t have to make her speak, but she shouldn’t be invited to the wedding. You need to have a direct, difficult conversation with Brad - “Love you, Man, but your wife can’t come to my wedding because she treats Sadie like crap and I’m not having it on my wedding day”. Grow a pair, do the right thing. But honestly, if I were Sadie, this is a hill I would die on.
But I assume that her friends respect and like Sadie enough to show you the most basic form of respect and they greet you when you’re around and they you know, acknowledge your existence
She wants to be included with you and your friends. She like spending time with you and wants to be friends with your friends, included.
Some women can be…petty. I bet they have someone in mind for you as soon as you breakup with your fiancée. Just be more aware of how the other women treat her when they don’t think you are paying attention.
Do you even read what you're writing?
Man, you're a real asshole. I honestly hope your fiancee wakes the hell up and sees the kind of jerk you are and finds someone who actually stands up for and deserves her. Get bent.
NTA.
You are being put in the worst position because now you are in the middle of this “fight”. Your fiancée clearly has some major troubles with this situation. It’s clearly taken enough of a toll where she’s uninviting the wife of the best man. I don’t believe people come to that decision without a lot of thought. To me that means she is unwilling to change her mind unless she sees change.
Tbh I see only one solution here. You go to Brad and tell him straight up what’s happening, according to your perspective. Don’t let him laugh it off or change the conversation. You tell him this has escalated to where your fiancée feels uncomfortable having her at the wedding. This could blow up in your face, but it’s not like it already hasn’t.
OK but Sadie needs to make it "fair" she has to uninvite her maid of honor. Seriously, if Sadie's wedding day can be ruined by a single person there that she doesn't like and will have minimal to zero contact with maybe she's not ready to get married.
FYI you're not prioritizing Evelyn over her-- you are asking that proper wedding etiquette be followed and the Best Man's wife get an invitation. Remind Sadie that if she gets "her way" the talk of the wedding will be how your Best Friend got booted from the wedding because Sadie is being an AH--- that's not really the "look" a bride wants on her wedding day. Also I was only half kidding about booting the MOH. If you have to sacrifice your BF to bridezilla then she's got to step up and do the same.
NTA
Basically it’s your wife or best friend . If you ask him to not invite her then Brad won’t go and the others in the friend group will probably leave too
NTA Sadie is the AH for not wanting to invite the best man’s wife. It’s also weird to me that she keeps trying be friends with these women. Does she not have her own friends?
NTA. Yes, it’s HER day but ppl forget it’s also YOURS. He’s your best friend. She can avoid the wife or just tell your best friend to keep his wife away from yours. Idk, all sounds so childish. If you ask me she’s choosing her dislike for this one person over you and your feelings. Really unfair
It would be extremely easy for Sadie to avoid Evelyn at the wedding. Evelyn being there would have zero impact on the wedding or reception.
Not having your best man there will not only be hurtful to you, your group of friends, it would also most likely cause lots of gossip and drama around the wedding and people speculating why he’s not there.
It’s not just her day but also your day. And this is your best friend. I would never require myself to be friends with my partners friends spouse. To me this seems Sadie is making what I perceive as an unreasonable request. She could so easily ignore Evelyn and instead is forcing you to make a choice between her and your best friend.
This would be a line in the sand for me.
NTA
But it's now or never for any hope for your marriage.
Tell Sadie, your friend's wife will be coming and do not discuss it any further.
If Sadie whines and whines, it will be time to reconsider hitching your future to her.
It sounds to me like Sadie is the real problem here.
You let Brad bring his wife.There are to many brides to be that think they control everyone’s life.Plus Brad will leave you without a best man if his wife is forbidden to come.Or if I was him I would come without her but stop the wedding in the middle and make a speech about how the bride to be treats people and blow up the wedding in retaliation.You bride to be will cause you to not have any friends over this.
YTA. Your bff’s wife has never even said “hello” to your fiance? Has actively ignored her but no one else….And you’re okay with that? Look, you can’t and shouldn’t expect someone else’s behavior to change. But you can be on Sadie’s side by saying - yeah, she sucks and is rude, who the hell doesn’t even acknowledge another human being in the room! I wish I could not invite her, but Brad is my best man, I don’t know what to do. I want to make you happy, and I wish Evelyn would stop being a b!tch (your words), but I just don’t know what to do. Can we figure something out together? This isn’t about Evelyn. It’s about YOU being on Sadie’s side, seeing her side, understanding her feelings, and supporting her. If it were me, I’d have called Evelyn and Brad out a long time ago just to get to the bottom of this. Sadie has a lot more restraint and maturity than you, your bff and his wife.
I guess they really need to talk through it and see if it’s a requirement that OP cut out his bff if the wife continues acting like this, because that very well might be the outcome if he disinvites the wife. In fact, almost certainly will be the outcome.
I don’t know. I’m kinda on the E S H except for your train. I don’t think you’re in the wrong for not wanting to put Brad in that position, especially as he’s your best man. That being said, if Evelyn truly has been that unwelcoming to Sadie and all the other wives are following Evelyn’s lead - I wouldn’t want that person at my wedding either. You sir, are in a lose-lose situation. And I have no suggestions how to fix it. Maaaaybe talking to Brad and let him know how Sadie is feeling might help, but if he’s already been laughing it off when you’ve brought it to his attention, I don’t know. (That being said I’d probably be pretty pissed if my best friend laughed off my partners feelings). Edit: after reading your comments, I’m absolutely adding in that you’re included in my ESH judgement. Evelyn isn’t just being unwelcoming she’s full on ignoring Sadie’s existence, and Brad is enabling her childish behaviour at every turn. She doesn’t have to like Sadie, nor does she owe her friendship - however, I would like to think she does owe her the courtesy of politeness and a simple hello when she can talk to the other wives in the group. At first I was like, Sadie should “suck it up” on this one, but no - if Evelyn can’t be bothered to acknowledge her existence, I absolutely agree with Sadie that she should not come. Why are you okay with Sadie being disrespected by your friends (because Brad is also disrespecting her by enabling Evelyn. So are your other friends + wives when they go along with it).
agree. his entire friend group has iced her out. he hangs out with all of them regularly without her. like how old are these people? of course she doesn’t want a group of mean girls at her wedding, but not inviting them is clearly not a real solution. like i guess she just needs to suck this up for the rest of her life because this man has done the bare minimum to try to stand up for her in this situation… if these were truly his lifelong friends you would think they could work it out…
> his entire friend group has iced her out. He's also absolutely downplaying it because he didn't post that Evelyn won't even say hello to his fiancee in the post, but in a comment. He doesn't want it to become an issue for him, he doesn't give two shits about Sadie's comfort.
absolutely cooking himself in the comments
I made a suggestion that they just ice HER out. He said the other wives are nicer but follow her lead so I suggested a seating plan for the wedding where she is seated with the most boring people, the most chatty people (as she doesn’t like talking) the most ugly people (as she’s very looks oriented) or the oldest or youngest guests. She won’t know until she gets to the reception so if she doesn’t like it and storms out it won’t matter because the best man has already stood with his mate for the ceremony.
This is actually genius.
OP sounds so ridiculous in the comments that I'm getting massive rage bait vibes. >It comes down to caring about having my best friend from childhood there, and I am just struggling to see why this is so important as to lose that friendship. With so many guests neither of us is going to be personally close to everyone in attendance but that seems normal to me
I think he's in a lose lose situation because he has crappy friends. OP, don't invite anyone to your wedding who is rude to your future wife or who has been unsupportive of the relationship. That's just a bare minimum level of respect. If Brad won't come if his wife cannot, then too bad. He married someone rude and these are the consequences. Moving forward you can hang out with Brad one on one so your fiancee doesn't have to put up with Evelyn.
Agreed 💯. I just edited my comment to say basically this. His friends do not respect his partner and I fully understand her request after reading his comments!
He’s in a lose lose situation because he hasn’t really tried to deal with it at any point. His friends wife is super rude to his girlfriend at many many social events and he ‘gently raised’ it as he doesn’t want to upset Brad.
This is pretty lucid. OP must respect his fiancee's feelings. But there is room for OP to make a final salvage. Confront Brad about his wife. Do not allow the "awe shucks, thats just her". This is the point. It is her! He'll need to get Brad to speak with his wife (presuming he has any influence there) and point out she's a total cunt to OP's fiancee. (since he's best man I can't imagine close friends where one's wife is such a bitch to the other's). Somehow he has to accept he can either get his wife to stop being a cunt, or she'll not go to the wedding (she'll probably be thrilled), and if this is going to cause a rift, better to get that resolved now.
That’s the point I just don’t get. Why is anyone okay with how Sadie is being treated? I’m not “friends” with my partners significant others, but we can still be friendly with each other and acknowledge each other. I wouldn’t dream of treating the partner of my husbands best friend this way. And I wouldn’t let my friends significant others treat my partner this way.
OP used the phrase "selective mutism". This is a symptom - Is Evelyn autistic? If so she can't help it. He says she just "gives a vibe" which also sounds like how people see autistic people. Maybe the rest of the women know but not Sadie.
OP says he thinks selective mutism, given how easily he brushes of the fact that Brad laughs it off.. I’m not so sure. She makes plans and talks to the other wives in the group but actively ignores Sadie’s existence to the point she won’t even give her a simple hello. I’m sorry, even people who are autistic will give the courtesy of a simple hello, especially in a group. And if it’s been brought up to Brad, to get to the point that it has gotten to, Brad should have said something because Evelyn sounds incredibly disrespectful based on OPs comments
Not all people with autism have this. Look up the condition - I don't think you even have to be autistic to have it. The selective part can mean they can't talk to specific people for no obvious reason. No amount of saying something would do anything. I wasn't sure if OP heard the term from Brad and didn't know what it is. Because if he knew what it is, and suspected it, he wouldn't have called Evelyn a bitch.
I’m not disagreeing with you on that, and you’re correct that he wouldn’t call her a bitch if he knew what it was. To me, based on his comments, she sounds like a bitch who doesn’t like his partner and is enabled by basically everyone around her.
It’s not a “symptom,” it’s a separate diagnosis. It’s also not part of autism. It’s possible to have both, but they’re separate things and you can have SM while not being autistic.
Thanks - I used the wrong word. And at the time I didn't realize it wasn't associated with autism - I saw people on the autism forums talk about having this, that was how I knew about it. Regardless it seems plausible she has this.
There's actually a fair bit of misinformation about it in autism spaces at the moment. Some autistic people experience episodes of mutism for different reasons, like during a shutdown. There was a lot of disagreements over what to call that, and SM got mixed up in the debates as something that shared the symptom of temporary mutism. There ended up being people who misunderstood and ended up spreading incorrect definitions and actively encouraged people to use the term incorrectly (to replace the use of "going nonverbal"). It's not as bad as it used to be, and some autistic people do genuinely have it, but that confusion and the resulting misinformation is definitely still around as well. There's a [wiki page](https://reddit.com/r/selectivemutism/w/index) on the [r/selectivemutism](https://www.reddit.com/r/selectivemutism) sub that has a few links about it, with [this one](https://selectivemutismcenter.org/whatisselectivemutism/) being quite detailed, and [this one](http://www.ispeak.org.uk/Overview.aspx) being a shorter overview. It's an anxiety disorder and is usually closely related to social anxiety. Agree it could be possible she has it, but there wasn't really enough information in the post to be sure.
Thanks for the info. I shut down sometimes but I agree I see that as something close to my son's meltdowns as opposed to close to being nonverbal.
YTA, but the information doesn't come from the post for me saying that. It comes from your one comment. >She just never talks to Sadie, like ever. She doesn't talk to a lot of people so it isn't personal, but she doesn't even usually greet her. This woman doesn't even acknowledge your fiancee's existence at gatherings, not even a fucking "hello," and you think your fiancee is being unreasonable for not wanting someone who literally pretends she doesn't exist at your wedding?
His bro before his ho!
Dude .... you are such the asshole. YTA.
YTA. You expect your fiancee to be ok with someone who refuses to even acknowledge her attending her wedding, that's a big no. They don't have to be friends and chatty cathy's together, but a polite hello is not an unrealistic expectation.
Figure out which person you are marrying and go from there
We may have to get the art room ready for OP and Brad
OMG I haven't seen this reference in so long, thanks for the chuckle!
Good grief, this is a tough one. Obviously, the wedding day will belong to both of you and neither of you should be made to feel uncomfortable at your own wedding. Ideally, you should be able to have your best friend and his wife attend your wedding, but if the wife is a problem for your fiance, then she (Evelyn) is the problem. I can see only two options, and admittedly, neither is ideal: 1. You have a serious chat with Brad. You tell him that you greatly value his friendship and want him to be your best man, but that Sadie feels a lot of animosity coming from Evelyn, that you've seen it and you've also seen how it influences the other wives. He can either speak with Evelyn and she makes an effort not to be so miserable or he comes stag. 2. You skip the chat with Brad and go directly to Evelyn. You explain that you really want to have Brad as your best man, but you've noticed that Evelyn seems to have a problem with Sadie. You tell her that since it's Sadie's day, you hope that she can be gracious on your wedding day, or at the very least, avoid Sadie. Then pray. I am somewhat concerned by your last sentence, however. You make it sound like your priority is having Brad as your best man. It should be the other way around, that you want Brad as your best man, but you can't imagine Sadie not enjoying her wedding day. If your priority is to have Brad as your best man, then you would be TAH.
You need new friends, if Evelyn et al are mean to your wife, then they are not your friends. YWBTA if you invite any of them. I get it’s your day too, but you don’t want Sadie upset or uncomfortable on your wedding day.
Bro I meant this respectfully but if you don’t think you’re the asshole at all, why are you here? You keep downplaying Sadie’s feelings about being disrespected and ignored and when she tells you that she doesn’t want someone like that at her wedding, you still want that person to be there. Couples counseling or pre-marital counseling is probably better than asking for strangers’ input about this very specific, very delicate topic.
YTA.. don't invite him, or just invite him with no +1. support your future wife not the bitch who brings the drama. Bit of a no brainer really.
Do you even love Sadie? Because you socialize with the people who are *very wrongfully* being cold to her. Because of the Queen of the social group? Wow. Your “friends”, by extension you, are horrible people. YTA. Do Sadie a favor and break it off until you can grow up and no longer associate with the people who ignore your fiancée.
That’s not selective mutism. I’m autistic and had a form of selective mutism as a teenager. This is not it
Yeah he said she giggles while she’s doing it like she’s playing a game…
Jeez reading OP comments just make this whole thing worse, I feel sorry for the fiancé.
Yta- realise you’re in a tight spot / but based on your comments: 1) Evelyn has been ignoring your wife at multiple social events over time, so as to not even acknowledge her existence despite being friendly with everyone else there, and you’ve ‘gently broached’ it with Brian and not explained how difficult it is for Sadie, and therefore you? You should have seen this as an issue just in your hangouts and dealt with it for your wife - and at least realised it would be in an issue at the wedding without her having to tell you! 2) you STILL haven’t mentioned to Brian about how Sadie- the bride and your fiancé- doesn’t want someone apparently hostile to her existence at her wedding? (Evelyn doesn’t need to be fake friends with sadie - but ignoring her existence is not neatrul) You’re marrying Sadie - try and see it from her pov and have a proper conversation with Brian about what the issue is and how hurtful it is and what he can do about it. if he really is your best man he shouldn’t be adding to your stress. If it is an anxiety issue triggered by maybe Sadie for what ever reason- maybe Evelyn is looking for an excuse to not go. I mean why would she want to if Sadie is so triggering..
YTA who are you marrying??? You talk to Brad and tell him you love and appreciate him but you won't stand for Evelyn's disrespect towards Sadie anymore.
Gentle YTA. I’m noticing you’re not giving a lot of power to Brad here—why is your instinct to tell Sadie to tolerate Evelyn’s presence and not to tell Brad to explain the situation to Evelyn and show up solo for his best friend? If Evelyn really doesn’t like Sadie, why is it so important that she be at her wedding? Here’s the deal. Evelyn is allowed to not talk to anyone she doesn’t want to, but there are consequences to that and one of those is she’s not going to get invited to places. If her parents/spouse/therapist have explained this to her and she’s still chosen to openly ignore and be rude to people she doesn’t want to interact, she shouldn’t be surprised that this is going to be the result, and neither should her husband. This is your day, but it’s also your fiancée’s and it’s obvious that Evelyn makes her uncomfortable.
YTA. If you don’t put your foot down and let Brad know his wife isn’t welcome, I hope your fiancée leaves you.
Evelyn climbs into her husband’s lap and puts her head down? She has issues with eating food? Did your friend marry someone who is mentally disabled? This sounds super alarming. Also, YTA. Evelyn sounds like someone who would cause issues at a wedding. Your fiancée has major issues with her and for good reason. She shouldn’t be invited and your friend needs to understand that.
YTA your wife deserves to feel safe at her own wedding.
With everything you have posted I am routing for her to not marry you. You seem like an asshole woth toxic friends
YTA Sadie deserves a better life partner.
Yta. This woman has gone out of her way to make your wife feel like shit. To make her feel unwelcome and uncomfortable. Your wife has put up with quite enough and she has the right to not want that woman at her wedding.
YTA - You should support your wife the way Brad supports his. And bonus, your wife isn't an immature bully.
Prioritise your woman, man. It's the only thing you can do. Maybe it'll make your buddy think on his relationship too. Whatever, your lady comes first. End of story. It's not your friend that's the problem. Make that clear to him. Your SO's not being unreasonable either. There's only one choice.
who’s more important to have enjoy your wedding day? best friend or wife?
Simply put OP, do you want to risk “Evelyn” attempting to upstage your wife at your wedding? It’s that simple. Because there’s no coming back from that. As an aside, I can’t wait for Sadie’s post in wedding shaming where she details “Evelyn’s” meangirlness at her wedding and how her marriage didn’t even make it to the honeymoon.
YTA why would you invite someone who is rude to your wife to your wedding?
Questions: Have you asked Sadie what she hopes uninviting them will do? She recognizes that this will most likely end everything, right? Is she hoping a discussion comes from it? Have you ever asked Brad if he and Evelyn have issues with Sadie? I get Sadie's perspective in that I wouldn't want a person i perceive as rude at my wedding. At the same time, she sounds like she tries WAY too hard and cares too much. I don't know if it's because of the kind of emphasis you put on these friendships or if Sadie has no friends of her own. It sucks to feel the odd man out.
[удалено]
Sadie seems to expect a lot from people. At the same time, Brad seems to be trying to deflect from the problem. Are you really not able to have a conversation with your "best friend" to find some sort of neutral ground? Honestly, it seems like Sadie and Evelyn both expect people to just be fine with whatever way they are, which is putting tension on the original friendships involved. Let's say none of them like Sadie, then why should they come to the wedding of someone they don't like? Why should you have to pay for it? If there was some actual honesty from Brad, maybe Evelyn gets to do something else she prefers, and Sadie doesn't have her at the wedding.
So, going forward-- Sadie likely won't be invited to any parties Brad and Ev host-- but she agrees now that you will be absolutely free to attend those parties without her and she won't ever complain--right< LOL.
So, Sadie is completely delusional, then. Gotcha.
>So, Sadie is completely delusional, then. Gotcha. Nah, OP's burying the lede in comments. >She just never talks to Sadie, like ever. She doesn't talk to a lot of people so it isn't personal, **but she doesn't even usually greet her.** The woman doesn't even acknowledge her presence in the same room, it's not just, "doesn't want to be her friend."
YTA - Maybe you'll get lucky and Evelyn will like your next fiancée, because I give about a 99% chance your marriage is going to fail, if it even happens at this point. You hang out with your group of friends a couple of times a month where she is blatantly unwelcome. You are unwilling to say or do anything for your wife if it risks upsetting Brad. Evelyn never speaks to your wife, at all. You know this, Brad knows this, and Evelyn knows this. It should be no shock at all to tell Brad that his wife isn't welcome since she's been a complete bitch to your wife for no reason. And to top t all off, *you're* upset with *her* for not prioritizing *your* feelings!? Why is she marrying you?
Sincerely hope the reception seating is bridal party at the head table, their plus ones at different tables. Seat Evelyn with the drunk uncle and the born again proselytizing cousin as well as the ocd vegan friend and the biker club member.
YTA Please tell this to your GF so she has a chance to call off the wedding. She deserves someone in her life who will care enough about her to stand up for her not put her in situations where she'll be bullied on her wedding day.
If what she has is actually [selective mutism](http://www.ispeak.org.uk/Overview.aspx), it wouldn’t be that she doesn’t want to talk or is intentionally trying to ignore people. While I get what you’re saying that it can give off “bad vibes,” and it might come across as being rude or unwelcoming, it’s not really like that at all for the person experiencing it. Rather, SM is usually related to severe social anxiety, and thats just how their body responds to that anxiety. I have it myself and have been told been told multiple times before that I give off an unfriendly, “go away” vibe around strangers, but it’s not like I’m trying to come across that way. Actually, I do want to talk to people, but physically can’t force myself to. While I don’t know the exact situation, and perhaps you’ve missed something out in the post, but it’s a bit extreme to jump into calling her a “mean girl” and a “bitch” just because she feels off and doesn’t talk much if she hasn’t even really done anything else to warrant being thought of that way. It might be beneficial to try to get to the bottom of why Evelyn acts that way, and whether or not it’s actually intentional behaviour, as that might help your fiancee understand a little better. If you’re uncomfortable around her, you could always ask your friend if he has any idea why. While both yours and your fiances feelings are valid, it would be a bit unfair to fault her for something she might not even realise she’s doing if you haven’t even tried to talk to her about it.
It really comes down to who do you care to have at your wedding? Sadie or Evelyn? You are picking one over the other and your choice will likely determine whether or not you actually get married.
[удалено]
You are getting married. If your future wife isn't the most important person in your life (more so than Brad) you shouldn't get married. It is bonkers you insist inviting someone who completely ignores your wife and makes her feel like shit. YTA
It is important because you are saying he is more important than your wife. That is fine if that is your choice. She has the right to decide she doesn’t want to be married to someone where she is not their top priority. And honestly you should not be marrying her if your friend is more important to you.
[удалено]
Have any of them acted towards you the way that Evelyn acts towards Sadie?
[удалено]
You didn't answer the question. Do her friends treat you like s*it? Do they make you feel inferior or less than, like, they are better than you? And whether Evelyn talks to you or ignores you is not what this is about as it doesn't bother you, but it bothers your fiancée! And it's not just that Evelyn doesn't talk to her, but she presents herself like your fiancé is beneath her.
Not prioritizing your feelings that your friend is more important to you than her? I’m confused how she isn’t prioritizing your feelings. Honestly you should both get to veto people being at your wedding. The only 2 people who should matter should be you and her. That is clearly not the case with the 2 of you and I am guessing you will not be getting married or you will be divorced within a year. Being married means putting the two of you first, always. And it is clear you are not willing to do that for her. Not sure about her as you haven’t gone into any details about people in her life you feel are a problem. But you know this person is and you are still saying that having Evelyn there is more important than your wife on your wedding day.
[удалено]
Is there someone who is friends with your wife who you feel uncomfortable, anxious, and stressed by that will be at the wedding?
Has Sadie articulated SPECIFICALLY what Evelyn has "done" to her? Is this maybe a mental health issue where she's just abnormally sensitive? Does she realize that when your best friend/Best man isn't at the wedding the rest of the friend group is going to want to know why (or likely will already know why) and it's going to make Sadie look a bit unhinged?
[удалено]
So, is this going to happen at your wedding? Like, is she going to just climb on her husbands lap at some point and just put her head down? She’s just not going to speak to / congratulate the bride? The more I read your comments about Evelyn the more I can somewhat understand where Sadie is coming from.
[удалено]
"Being married means putting the two of you first, always." If this is true, then OPs fiance should ALSO be putting him first and she isn't. She's being incredibly selfish. He isn't choosing between his fiance and anyone. He's asking her to put aside her discomfort (especially given there will be VERY little chance of her spending any significant amount of time with Evelyn) for one day so that he doesn't have to destroy a lifelong friendship. Because that is a likely outcome if he tells his best friend his wife can't come. There's no indication that Evelyn will make a scene or try to ruin the day. She simply won't talk as much as OPs fiance thinks she should. Maybe the fiance should put aside her own ego for the day. It's absurd to place one day above the rest of their lives, which is what the fiance is doing. She's saying her comfort on this one day should outweigh the pain OP will almost certainly suffer for the rest of his life if he loses his best friend over this.
>It comes down to caring about having my best friend from childhood there, and I am just struggling to see why this is so important as to lose that friendship. With so many guests neither of us is going to be personally close to everyone in attendance but that seems normal to me Oh yeah, this is just silly little rage bait.
But you will speak to almost everyone at least once. Brad is your best man, it stands to reason that time *will* be spent around Evelyn. Is she just not going to speak to the bride?
If your fiancée had a male high school friend who was an AH to you, and you both didn't get along, could you ignore him at the wedding, especially if he came to chat with your wife throughout the reception and want to dance with her? You are not even acknowledging your wife's feelings. Even if there are 100 people at the wedding, it's the principle of this woman being there. I don't think that your wife can just ignore her or not let it affect her. She cried to you, which tells me that she is truly stressed and upset about it, enough to distract her from enjoying her wedding. It may not be a big deal to you, but it is to her, so talk to your friend about how your wife feels. Have a serious discussion whereby you're not laughing and telling jokes, but make it clear that it's deeply upsetting your wife. You are supposed to be looking out for your fiancée. Her feelings should matter to you. And before you say they do, then SHOW it. Stop making excuses and stop trying to rationalize it because it doesn't bother you. Edit.
[удалено]
Okay, roles reversed and Sadie treated Evelyn the way she’s being treated. And Evelyn was hurt. And Brad brought it up to you multiple times. Would you laugh it off?
It's not about wanting to dance with you! You have your friend Brad there. You get along with him. You feel comfortable with him. Evelyn will be around him and probably sitting nearby, but she doesn't bother you. You can ignore her because it's easy for you to do. Your fiancée is not comfortable with Evelyn's presence. This was the point of me asking you! If your fiancée had a male friend that you didn't like and perceived as an AH, how would you feel? The dance is about your fiancée's friend spending time with her and IT bothering you! It's a hypothetical situation.
Is your finance's wife autistic? The mutism and food sensitivities are interesting characteristics. If your bff's wife has a disability, your finance might not take the situation so personally. At the same time, your future wife's comfort on her big day is important too. It really boils down to can your fiance ignore your bff's wife and have a fun day or will this situation affect her joy on her wedding ay. I understand your perspective as well. You sound like you can easily compartmentalize your relationship with your bff's wife. As women, our right/left brain connection makes compartmentalization more difficult Do you have a premarital counselor who could help two reach a compromise that makes you both happy?
YTA. Your partner is supposed to come first and you’re showing her that her feelings do not matter so long as you get to have your friend, who enables his wife to come. You say it’s selective mutism, but there are ways to be friendly w/o speaking. Body language is a big one, a smile can be a greeting without words. Evelyn ices your wife out and you continue to associate with this friend group. Your wife is spot on about the mean girl comment as Evelyn acts like Regina George and the other two wives just follow along. You need to put your partner first and if Sadie were to post I’d tell her to seriously postponing the wedding or calling it off all together. She is supposed to be your priority. Act like it.
YTA. If you can't sit down with your best mate and address why his missus is being a dog to the woman you'll be (hopefully) spending the rest of your life with, then don't be surprised when your girl eventually starts to resent you. You can't force someone (Evelyn) to change their behaviour or attitude, but you CAN address issues as they arise, to show Sadie you side with her and have her back no matter what. Prioritising Brad and Evelyn's feelings over Sadie is shitty. I eloped with my husband for kinda this exact reason. Your wedding day should 100% without a doubt be about the two people getting married, not some grumpy little toad.
Ask your fiancee. Everyone at the wedding should be approved by both of you.
Yeah, that's quite a pickle your in. In your shoes, I'd feel my first duty was towards my wife-to-be. If you want a shot at salvaging the situation, you'd have to make absolutely sure to let her know that first. Tell her you're willing to uninvite Evelyn and deal with the fallout from Brad and the rest of the friend group if it comes to that. Make sure she abolutely believes that. And you're not as good as a liar as you think you are, so you'd absolutely be believing it yourself too. MAYBE then she'll offer, or you can ask her, to do you a big favour and accept bitchface at her wedding to make things easier.
Really not sure how to vote here, but if your wife doesn't want her at your wedding, then don't invite her. **BUT** there is a normal expection that you would invite someone's spouse, especially if its your best man. Talk to your friend ask if there is any reason why his wife doesn't like you both, the fact she doesn't talk to either of you, means you don't have a relationship and as such she is not invited. but you need to have the full expectation that he will not attend the wedding if his wife is not invited.
The question is knowing the situation why did you ask Brad to be your best man? If you want your marriage to start off well you're going to have to have a wedding without Brad and Evelyn. If Brad is more important to you than Sadie it is good that she knows now before the wedding. Interesting that you are "gentle" with Brad but dismissive of Sadie. Who are you in love with again?
YTA should never have asked him to be your best man.
This is your and your fiancées wedding and honestly it’s unfair to ask her to put up with someone who makes her uncomfortable on her wedding day. Hopefully her *only* wedding day. She’s going to be a mess if she’s actively dreading dealing with this woman. I wouldn’t call you an AH because I understand your predicament but if there is a way to keep this woman away I’d do it.
I probably have the odd ball opinion. I think your wife needs to figure out why this person’s attention or validation matter to her. I think y’all could also be judging the wife a little too harshly, you said she just has this b*tchy air but hasn’t really done anything?? How long have your best friend and her been married? Does your wife actually try to have a relationship with her or the other wives? Or is she just expecting to be invited or included into the group chats? Either there is something wrong and it might take time for his wife to come around, or she’s being a b*tch. BUT, I can honestly say that I would never ask this of my husband. Your wife is giving this way to much power over her. Maybe it is selective mutism, or autism, or a long list of other things. Maybe the wife and your bride to be are giving off funky vibes/energy to each other??
I would tell Brad how Sadie feels and ask if he’s willing (and thinks your friendship and his best man role is worthy enough) to look at ways to build a bridge between your respective partners. Sadie could agree to give it a try if Evelyn agrees to give it a try. And you wouldn’t be asking them to be besties, just two women willing to put aside differences for a day (for now) and be respectful and gracious (Evelyn) and hospitable (Sadie) at the wedding because that’s what they should do for the men they love
He's gone... Hopefully, he takes many of the comments supporting his fiancée into consideration. It's a shame that she didn't read his post and comments.
YTA and this issue might cost your relationship. Evelyn doesn't even acknowledge your Fiancée existence at gatherings. How much do you really wanna be married to Sadie? Be honest with yourself.
This is so hard to comment on without witnessing the behaviour. I am very much authentic and won’t pretend to like people I don’t. I will be polite and warm but discourage closeness/connection. So if it’s that, then good for Evelyn, but if she’s being rude and making your fiancé uncomfortable intentionally then that’s different. Do you have examples of interactions? Saying iced out is so vague
[удалено]
Sorry but no I would be damned that someone will come to my wedding but they won’t even speak to say hi to me.
Don't you know that not wanting someone who *won't even acknowledge your presence* at your wedding makes you a bridezilla? /s
It’s nuts that everyone is saying that his fiancée is in the wrong. He sucks as well because why are you fighting so hard to have his best friend at his wedding when his wife is disrespecting your fiancée. He said that when his fiancée speaks she turns her head. In addition, he is delusional if he thinks that his best friend won’t drop him in a millisecond for his wife.
Everyone's saying the fiancee is wrong isn't reading OP's comments because he completely buried the lede. He made it sound like this woman is simply polite and cordial in the post.
How much do you wanna bet that his fiancée has brought this issue to his attention throughout their relationship and he has said just ignore it
Oh, you know it. The fact he's talked to his BFF before and he laughs it off is my proof of that.
This is such creepy behavior. It’s something a very small child/toddler would do. I would feel weirded out that my friend wanted to be sexually intimate with someone that regularly acted like a toddler in public. Honestly the whole relationship seems creepy and if I was in your wife’s shoes I wouldn’t want to have to deal with that at the wedding or my family asking me who this weird couple is that’s doing this and why. I’d think people would see that and start worrying about how someone who acts like they are stunted at the mental age of a 5-6 year old can consent as an adult and why an adult would be attracted to that.
She doesn’t owe Sadie friendship but it would be reasonable to have a boundary that she has to make effort with both the bride and groom on their own wedding day. If she can’t do that then she’s not invited. It’s not too much to ask. The rest of the time, it’s up to her who she gives her energy to
Bro, she doesn't even say hello to Sadie. Why would Sadie want her around ?
That is such strange behaviour. I think you should talk to your best friend and ask him to speak with his wife and set some boundaries for the wedding day. It’s the bare minimum to have her greet the bride and tell her she looks beautiful/congratulations. If she can’t agree to do that and treat her warmly on her own wedding day then she’s not welcome. If on the day that boundary is not stuck to, Evelyn is asked to leave. And you stick to that. That would be my opinion. Choosing not to make effort with her the rest of the time is totally up to her but would be totally unacceptable on Sadies wedding day. I really think you need to take charge here and reassure Sadie that it’s dealt with
How was she at first with these other 2 wives? It’s possible this is more of a social disorder than her being a bitch?
What reason would she have to invite Sadie on her planned outings?
NTA She should have brought this up when you discussed the wedding parties, not after having a best man. These women haven’t done anything to your wife. They’re just not interested in being more than acquaintances with her. Most weddings have guests, especially plus ones, that are acquaintances to one or both people getting married.
> They’re just not interested in being more than acquaintances with her. They aren't even interested in that, the one he's specifically asking about doesn't even acknowledge her presence. I really disagree with your NTA statement on that alone, but he didn't put that in the post but in a comment.
ESH except Sadie. Evelyn is a mean girl bully, Brad thinks it's hilarious, and you're not prioritizing the woman you allegedly love and want to marry.
So you would prefer to stand with your best man at the altar whose wife ignores the existence of your partner, not with Sadie. Problem solved: Don’t get married. YTA
YTA. You don’t really love your wife or you would have already uninvited him. Do her a favor and break since you are ok betraying her.
UpdateMe
NTA. By your own admission, Evelyn hasn't done or said anything wrong and it isn't her job to make your fiance feel welcome. Clearly her husband, the other two wives don't have a problem with her. Quite honestly, just based on your post, you and your fiance sound like the mean girls here. By challenging your best mate about your perception of his wife's "behaviour", you've probably already pissed him off. Why would your risk losing him completely by uninviting her.
He didn't tell the complete truth in his post. Evelyn won't even greet Sadie at all. Doesn't even speak to her to say hello. Revealed it in a comment.
OP's comment on her behavior toward his fiance: "I do think she has selective mutism. I'm not sure how much she can control or not because sometimes she seems to be giggling and enjoying it, but at the same time I think it is a real issue because she has done it in serious situations (like making her husband look like an abuser at the hospital because she didn't feel like speaking, so of course the nurses were concerned he was speaking for her, then she got offended when they questioned her. she had legitimately hurt herself but didn't feel like explaining) She just never talks to Sadie, like ever. She doesn't talk to a lot of people so it isn't personal, but she doesn't even usually greet her. She never tries to include her in conversations, and when sadie talks, Evelyn seems in her own world. She will climb on her husband and put her head down while people are talking. She also plans outings with the other two wives and never invites Sadie"
[удалено]
Evelyn doesn't even greet Sadie.
So your description is of a woman who doesn't do anything wrong and is quiet to the point you think she has elective mutism. Your friend says you and your fiancee 'try to make her speak when she doesn't want to.' and your fiancee is the one who is upset that she can't force Evelyn to be what she wants her to be in her life. Sounds to me like your fiancee is trying to push a relationship on her...why is she entitled to one?
It doesn't sound like Evelyn is a mean girl. More like your fiancé is being pushy and demanding of someone who wants nothing to do with her, as is her right. Just because the husbands are friends doesn't mean the wives are obligated to be. Unless there are instances of actually bullying not listed here, your fiance is the one causing problems. Being standoffish, rich, and silent is not a crime. Tell your fiancé to make her own friends instead of trying to poach Evelyn's. Or maybe not. She doesn't sound very mature and probably wouldn't take anything other than "yes, dear" well. Good luck with that.
Sounds like these are her husbands core group of friends and this issue is causing her to feel unwelcome around them. She probably has her own friends (since there is a wedding party) but is tired of feeling like the odd person out when OPs friend group gets together. I mean he has said Evelyn has never even really acknowledged her existence or spoken to her.
NTA Invite your friend and his wife. By your own story Evelyn has literally done nothing. Her being rich and/or wealthy is irrelevant. Is your wife welcoming to her. I doubt it since she doesn't like her. Your entire reason against her is the air/vibe she gives off yet has literally done nothing. Then your 2 friends wives enjoy her company more than your fiance Maybe it's your fiances issue as opposed to Evelyn's. If Evelyn and the friend exclude her for different reasons there is 1 commonality, your wife
His comment about Evelyn's behavior: "I do think she has selective mutism. I'm not sure how much she can control or not because sometimes she seems to be giggling and enjoying it, but at the same time I think it is a real issue because she has done it in serious situations (like making her husband look like an abuser at the hospital because she didn't feel like speaking, so of course the nurses were concerned he was speaking for her, then she got offended when they questioned her. she had legitimately hurt herself but didn't feel like explaining) She just never talks to Sadie, like ever. She doesn't talk to a lot of people so it isn't personal, but she doesn't even usually greet her. She never tries to include her in conversations, and when sadie talks, Evelyn seems in her own world. She will climb on her husband and put her head down while people are talking. She also plans outings with the other two wives and never invites Sadie"
Has no one stopped to consider that *Sadie* is the problem, not Evelyn and the other women? Evelyn is obviously able to be friends with and talk to everyone else...
NTA. You need to speak to Sadie. This wedding is not just her wedding, it’s your wedding too. You need your best man there so Evil-in is prerequisite to that happening. She is not part of the wedding party so suggest to Sadie that she seats her not with people she knows but with the most boring people who are attending the wedding. Or the oldest / youngest ones. Or make an ugly table and stick her there. There are so many ways that you can have your best man there and your new wife can feel happy. The selective mutism thing can be your wife’s ace in the hole. She could make sure that E is placed between the two most talkative people she knows. She can spend weeks making sure that she has a fabulous day whilst also making sure that E spends as little time near her as possible. It’ll be fun. Edit: forgot to add, don’t discuss the seating plan beforehand. If E storms off because she isn’t the centre of attention when she realises what’s happening it won’t matter because you got your best man for the ceremony and Sadie got a happy win.
NTA He’s your best friend and best man you can’t really tell him he can’t bring his wife. I’ve been in Sadie’s shoes and I can’t stand women like Evelyn and company. Honestly, the fact that Sadie has continued to try and be friends while being excluded makes me wonder why you continue to try and force the situation. Yes they’re your friends, but you’re marrying Sadie. Why haven’t you put some distance with your friends? Do you expect Sadie to invite them over and play happy hostess? If you had put some distance in the relationships with your friends and not put Sadie in these uncomfortable situations, she may have been able to look past the wedding guest issue. I don’t see a way to make her happy about this for the wedding, but maybe give her some space from them so seeing them once in a while doesn’t have them same effect on her.
[удалено]
How often do you get together with them as couples?
[удалено]
Uhm…you’re kinda clueless. You see your friends but your fiancée doesn’t have to go? You have fun with you your friends but your fiancée is iced out so she can just stay home. No harm no foul? You really don’t see a problem? Your are a couple and should both be included in your circle of friends. I think you and your fiancée need some new friends.
After reading his comments, I think his fiancée just needs to find a new fiancé.
Explain why op's best friend's wife has got to be friends with op's fiancee.
Because she is influencing the rest to exclude her as well, not be friendly. It’s a click, no one new (girlfriend) is welcome. Very middle school, but some people never grow up.
how is she being iced out?
Or she simply doesn't fit in. I think op's fiancee is in blame mode and wants to think that the quiet one is on this crusade to keep her out and the other women have zero agency and just go along with this diabolical plan like clueless sheep. Bottom line: Op's fiancee is not owed/entitled to relationships with his friends' SOs. (Also that's not an answer to my question.)
Except OP said in the beginning…. Evelyn who I will admit is a bitch. She is not owed a friendship, but if they are all together and none of the women speak to his wife unless Evelyn leaves, something isn’t right.
So op thinks she's a bitch but what's the next part immediately after that? "To be fair she doesn't even do much, she just has this air..." Op makes it clear she doesn't do anything but because she's not buddy buddy with fiancee and fiancee is angry about it, op is supporting fiancee even though he clearly admits 'she doesn't even do much' And yes, fiancee's not owed these relationships. That's pretty much the end of it for me.
[удалено]
This is such a manipulative comment. She isn’t stopping you from seeing your best friend, she is asking for a bit of respect and common decency. Evelyn doesn’t even greet her with a hello.
[удалено]
No she is asking you to make her a priority, it’s like you are deliberately being obtuse, hopefully your reaction to her boundaries at such an important event is enough to show her that she deserves better. I highly doubt that if this was you coming to her she wouldn’t 100 percent back you up. The matter of the fact is you are more worried about your best friend not coming than getting married and that’s a problem. If you have actually brought this up to him before then he shouldn’t even expect his wife to be invited considering how rude she is.
So she comes to the wedding and decides to ignore Sadie, what are you going to do?
[удалено]
I really hope she doesn’t marry you, you can’t even have her back on the day you’re marrying her. Eww
What are you talking about? You literally said she speaks to the other wives and they follow her lead when she’s around by not talking to Sadie? At the end of the day, if she can’t even fake politeness at someone’s wedding (let alone any other time) she absolutely should not be invited. Brad is enabling her and he’s showing you that he doesn’t respect your partner.
It's not just about speaking. Your fiancée doesn't feel comfortable around her at all. Non-verbal cues can speak volumes as well as someone's energy when in the room, like when she doesn't acknowledge your fiancée, she sits on her husband's lap and ignores your fiancée while she is trying to engage with her or how Evelyn makes Sadie feel like she's not good enough.
You don’t have to make her speak, but she shouldn’t be invited to the wedding. You need to have a direct, difficult conversation with Brad - “Love you, Man, but your wife can’t come to my wedding because she treats Sadie like crap and I’m not having it on my wedding day”. Grow a pair, do the right thing. But honestly, if I were Sadie, this is a hill I would die on.
But I assume that her friends respect and like Sadie enough to show you the most basic form of respect and they greet you when you’re around and they you know, acknowledge your existence
She wants to be included with you and your friends. She like spending time with you and wants to be friends with your friends, included. Some women can be…petty. I bet they have someone in mind for you as soon as you breakup with your fiancée. Just be more aware of how the other women treat her when they don’t think you are paying attention.
Do you even read what you're writing? Man, you're a real asshole. I honestly hope your fiancee wakes the hell up and sees the kind of jerk you are and finds someone who actually stands up for and deserves her. Get bent.
All this woman has done is be quiet? Sorry but your wife is the bully. NTA
Read his comments. Far more than “be quiet”.
NTA. You are being put in the worst position because now you are in the middle of this “fight”. Your fiancée clearly has some major troubles with this situation. It’s clearly taken enough of a toll where she’s uninviting the wife of the best man. I don’t believe people come to that decision without a lot of thought. To me that means she is unwilling to change her mind unless she sees change. Tbh I see only one solution here. You go to Brad and tell him straight up what’s happening, according to your perspective. Don’t let him laugh it off or change the conversation. You tell him this has escalated to where your fiancée feels uncomfortable having her at the wedding. This could blow up in your face, but it’s not like it already hasn’t.
OK but Sadie needs to make it "fair" she has to uninvite her maid of honor. Seriously, if Sadie's wedding day can be ruined by a single person there that she doesn't like and will have minimal to zero contact with maybe she's not ready to get married. FYI you're not prioritizing Evelyn over her-- you are asking that proper wedding etiquette be followed and the Best Man's wife get an invitation. Remind Sadie that if she gets "her way" the talk of the wedding will be how your Best Friend got booted from the wedding because Sadie is being an AH--- that's not really the "look" a bride wants on her wedding day. Also I was only half kidding about booting the MOH. If you have to sacrifice your BF to bridezilla then she's got to step up and do the same. NTA
[удалено]
I’m sorry… what? Make Sadie “feel more included on the big day”???? That big day is her fucking wedding. wtf.
Basically it’s your wife or best friend . If you ask him to not invite her then Brad won’t go and the others in the friend group will probably leave too
NTA Sadie is the AH for not wanting to invite the best man’s wife. It’s also weird to me that she keeps trying be friends with these women. Does she not have her own friends?
NTA. Yes, it’s HER day but ppl forget it’s also YOURS. He’s your best friend. She can avoid the wife or just tell your best friend to keep his wife away from yours. Idk, all sounds so childish. If you ask me she’s choosing her dislike for this one person over you and your feelings. Really unfair
It would be extremely easy for Sadie to avoid Evelyn at the wedding. Evelyn being there would have zero impact on the wedding or reception. Not having your best man there will not only be hurtful to you, your group of friends, it would also most likely cause lots of gossip and drama around the wedding and people speculating why he’s not there. It’s not just her day but also your day. And this is your best friend. I would never require myself to be friends with my partners friends spouse. To me this seems Sadie is making what I perceive as an unreasonable request. She could so easily ignore Evelyn and instead is forcing you to make a choice between her and your best friend. This would be a line in the sand for me.
NTA But it's now or never for any hope for your marriage. Tell Sadie, your friend's wife will be coming and do not discuss it any further. If Sadie whines and whines, it will be time to reconsider hitching your future to her. It sounds to me like Sadie is the real problem here.
You let Brad bring his wife.There are to many brides to be that think they control everyone’s life.Plus Brad will leave you without a best man if his wife is forbidden to come.Or if I was him I would come without her but stop the wedding in the middle and make a speech about how the bride to be treats people and blow up the wedding in retaliation.You bride to be will cause you to not have any friends over this.