NTA. You have to follow through with expectations, or she will walk all over you. You made it clear what the expectations were for her to come to Disney with you, and she chose not to comply. Oh, well. This is only going to get worse as she gets older into her teenage years, unfortunately. The best you can do is leave the door open, but stop begging for her to come and be a part of the family. As one relative told me about another troublesome relative, "I always invite, but I never expect. If they show up, great. If they don't, well, that's their choice."
Second this question. The kid was 7 when step father appeared so what was going on prior to that. Why does she not have joint custody? 12 is too young for right of refusal.
How does a mother go 4 WEEKS without seeing her 12 year old daughter that lives on the same block?
Why is Disneyland being used as a carrot for her to visit and why isn’t there a mandated visitation schedule????
we almost went to court when she was 9 after 2 years of stress. but he started manipulating her really bad and she was mad at us for trying to make her live miserable. after talking to a psychologist and lawyer we decided not to continu with this. If we would have done this, court would maybe given us more time with hrr. bit he would frame it like "they take you away from me".. furthen alienating us in the process. ex is a proper gaslighter since it took my wife so long to make to step away (even toug it was a really bad situation.) at the point she left him, the ex allready portraited my wife as the bad one to stephdaughter with succes. offcourse since he is the perfect dad in her eyes since he does everything she wants all the time.
"he started manipulating her really bad and she was mad at us for trying to make her live miserable"
That's parental alienation and had you taken him to court over it, it's likely the judge would have come down hard on her dad and put a stop to it.
And the less time with dad, the less control he would have had over her. She may have been mad at first, but at 9years old, could have had the stability she needed.
it was allready a long post, and since i didnt ask advice on that specific part i left out what we tried and why this was not the best option. the ex ia a huge gaslighter and narcissist. But in court you need hard proof and that she did not have. And he had plenty of "proof". He set up conversations said very nasting things and the secretly recorded it from her reaction. Makes her look very bad and plainly lies. He forges and manipulated and tried to do that to me as well. Luckely i was prepared for that and have cameras with sound in my hallway and at my front door. so when he sended me a letter tru his lawyer i could easely proof that the facts where different then he claimed then to be. and that is just 1 example. After consulting with a lawyer and psychologist we decides not to go to court in the interest of the child. it causes my wife/ her mom pain almost every day still.
we still hope that when she goes to high school she will see that we where right all along and she figures out her serself we want the best for her. for instance when she gets called out for not brushing her hair or being smelly. it is hard, but we remain hopefull. we keeo being nice amd keep inviting her over but will not be blackmailed with " i want sushi or i go earing with my dad."
Ah, so because she was upset, your wife leaves her kid with a deadbeat, who doesn't care about this kid, doesn't make the kid bathe, very likely isn't taking care of her health, doesnt' buy her anything, won't be supporting her doing her school work. yeah, she's upset so give up on your 9 year old child.
She doesn't see her kid for 4 weeks when the kid lives on the same fucking street and you can both walk your asses over there, check on the house, check how the kid is doing and you know, see her. Somehow it's the kids responsibility to visit.
this all sounds fucking pathetic.
>offcourse since he is the perfect dad in her eyes since he does everything she wants all the time.
that's not how courts work. The court would have a psychologist interview her, "my daddies great", how is he great, he doesn't make me go to bed, or shower, or do homework, or eat nasty vegetables. YOu think a court hears that and goes well she likes him so it's great, or goes wow he's a shit father.
I also find this story very weird. And it seems she really doesn't care at all and didn't tantrum for not going to Disneyland.
So if OP is feeling TA, it is for insisting so much this kid's attention. Maybe, just maybe, this might be some situation in which the mom left her marriage first.
And instead of bounding with her daughter, she married OP and was already having the other kids. This situation could be a case where the kid has already signed off the family and now is living her pre teens far away.
Feels it was a huge mistake to live close to her father. Should have found another environment where she would have to stay no matter what. And therapy. Family therapy. Not just her.
Sorry OP but you will have to work a way that doesn't sound like promising a gift to keep her close. The idea that your stepdaughter will regret this is far away from the truth. I would definitely talk with a family therapist (just you and the mother) and figure a way to not let her rebellious phase be a bigger problem in the future. If she is like this already, hold yourselves because she sounds like the delinquent teen that will steal, smoke, wear awful clothes, hit her siblings and call you names.
So, be more grey rock. Lock your wallet and her mother's purse when she is around. Put cameras in the living room. Make sure all rooms are locked. Don't give her an extra key to get in the house. Try to plan her birthday and Xmas, a week earlier with her because on the real date, she will use it to hurt you all again (emotionally).
Also, don't show love through gifts, money, clothes and food (sushi). Try just accept her presence. Don't let a visit end with money either.
yes i think you are right on most parts. But my wife (her mom) was allready the "bad" one in previous relation because she said no sometimes and wanted to apply some rules and structure. while the ex (dad) does whatever she wants when she wants. i think indeed we have tried tried to gain time with activities and gifts and realised to late what was happening. me wife but also me want the best for her, want that she walks in clean clothes and daily fresh underwear (she allready had way to much bladder infections for a 12 year old) but she sees tbat as nagging... and literally sais if you wouldnt give me rules i would come more often
I understand. The thing is that I have a female cousin that was sort of alike. But she went through the path of hiding cigarettes and only showing up at my aunt's when she got into trouble (not with her dad but since she was expected to be at his house, no one would look after her at my aunt's house. She would wait for the dust settles and disappear again.). I don't like her.
Your step kid will says bs at some point. So when you travel to Disney, just block her bio Dad and grandparents from that side. Don't buy her gifts. She will throw them away. If you post pictures, make them private too.
These days, with all these social media, people tend to distort everything. I would maximum give her Dad in front of her a few bucks for emergency (hospital, docs, meds). I know he will spend it. But let her know you didn't leave her behind with nothing (but money will be her daddy faults to spend it).
And again, don't leave the house unwatched. Place a camera in the living room. Some alarms (there some very cheap that works on battery). Lock all doors. Be careful with the gas. Might turn down water pipe. And ask a family member unrelated to her, to go there and see if it all okay. I would also leave the car at somewhere else. We also lock all our eletronic (tv, computer, games, sounds) in one room that has a much better lock system.
Also he bought a house in the same fucking street. Why is an adult waiting for HER CHILD to visit her when she can literally walk over to see her, but apparently won't. Why has she not called CPS or equivalent to report that this kid has no rules, no schedule, doesn't wash and is presumably eating unhealthily and very unlikely to be doing homework or behaving well at school.
somehow she is dictating how often she stays with the father but her custody agreement doesn't. He's living off child support, paying for the mortgage, or rent, food, his bike and bills all off child support, that's not generally how child support works anywhere in the world. He'd be broke as shit by now.
this was a very difficult choice, but we think we did the right thing. If we would have done this, court would maybe given us more time. bit he would frame it like "they take you away from me".. furthen alienating us in the process. ex is a proper gaslighter since it took my wife so long to make to step away (even toug it was a really bad situation.) at the point she left him, the ex allready portraited my wife as the bad one to stephdaughter with succes. offcourse since he is the perfect dad in her eyes since he does everything she wants all the time.
Info: you say she was lying asking for money for preschool two years ago. She was 10 two years ago. What preschool did you think a 10 year old was going to?
ESH sounds like nobody is really parenting her. It was a mistake to buy a house down the street because now she has the ability to come and go as she wants, and none of you are really parenting her. Why isn't there a solid custody agreement in place, if not between her parents then by court order? Why isn't there a set time she has to come stay with you like is normal between most divorced parents? Again, buying down the street was a big mistake. And because she has so much leniency from all the parents, she's learned she can manipulate you by choosing to spend time with you or not. Her parents are the ones who set this whole situation up and continue to allow it to happen. Ya'll are afraid to discipline her because you're afraid she'll stop visiting you. Why do you give her that much power in your relationship? You've literally handed her the power to control your relationship. That's shitty parenting.
If I was in this situation, I'd sell this house and buy far enough away she can't walk back and forth. Then go back to court and get a real custody agreement where she has to spend time at your house. Then when she's at your house, start setting some boundaries and some discipline. Hopefully it's not too late to re-establish the parent-child relationship.
NTA - your step daughter has been ruined by her father who is not much of a parent.
She’s a child and this isn’t her fault but you don’t have anyway to implement or influence change with her. And there in lies the root of the problem.
There is zero co-parenting between your wife and her ex. Likely not your wife’sfault. As a child if you have a parent who lets you do whatever you want and a parent who has rules and structure, you’re not wise enough to choose what’s best for you.
I know it’s hard, especially for your wife but perhaps go to counseling together with your wife to make peace with the situation and then if she calls wanting something, be kind but
just tell her it’s not available right now.
If she voluntarily comes over, be polite and friendly. Get her a small gift for Christmas and for her birthday but don’t go out of your way for her. Cause if you do, you are rewarding the behavior you don’t want.
Avoid telling her anymore that she has to come over and visit and have a relationship with you to get things. You’ve told her that. She doesn’t care because you give her stuff anyway. Ie - no consequence.
NTA she's toxic as hell OP if I were you try to tell your wife that if she feels okay with it give her ex, main custody then she'll see how good she had it when she's tired and dirty as hell stuck with a dad who's obsessed with a bike and don't take her to Disney land
NTA
It's really sucky and sad for your wife but fifteen is old enough to understand that actions have consequences. If you allow her to come on the trip with you, it's only teaching her that it's okay to treat people poorly and still benefit from them.
this was a very difficult choice, but we think we did the right thing. If we would have done this, court would maybe given us more time. bit he would frame it like "they take you away from me".. furthen alienating us in the process. ex is a proper gaslighter since it took my wife so long to make to step away (even toug it was a really bad situation.) at the point she left him, the ex allready portraited my wife as the bad one to stephdaughter with succes. offcourse since he is the perfect dad in her eyes since he does everything she wants all the time.
we made this decision with multiple proffesionals who know children minds and the dutch law system. But thanks for your opinion, even toug it is a bit harshly formulated
She already said she doesn’t care. Stop caring so much and don’t even acknowledge when she’s around. You’ve done more than enough for her. Even if you were to bring her to Disney, would she enjoy herself?? Seems like she’ll cause problem then nobody would enjoy Disney. NTA.
ahe sais she doesnt care, but i know she cares. i can see it in her face. but indeed, i think she wont enjoy the fact we have rules and structure and will not give in to her every whim.. it is still hard, since i want to treat all children the same and want her to have that expierence
NTA!!! You are kidding, right? Simply, actions meet consequences. Cause meet effect. Bug meet windshield. Your stepdaughter has not yet learned the basic rules of human interaction and decency. As for your trip to Disneyland, she FAFO!
Nta she needs consequences.
are you able to set up therapy for her? She might like someone to talk to because it sounds like she is isolated by her dad and at 12 it seems like an unsafe situation for her.
NTA. First of all, you made clear to her the conditions for her coming, and she didn't keep them. Secondly, being saddled with her for a few days in a foreign country would be a nightmare. You made the right decision.
NTA. She is learning that her actions have consequences. However, I wouldn't do Disneyland with 2 toddlers. They can only get on a couple of rides since they're so young. Disney is EXPENSIVE and you wouldn't be able to really enjoy the majority of the parks to justify paying those prices. Take them to Sesame Place or Legoland. Those parks caters to younger children. When they are 6 and 8, try Disney then as your entire family will be able to enjoy the parks to justify the cost.
Sounds like she's addicted to either video games or social media and has to get back to base camp. The rules at her dad's might be less stringent than yours. NTA so enjoy your trip without guilt.
That’s wierd yea I think it shows your true intentions because if you love your husband you would love his kid just as much because they are part of him and to not involve her that’s not right on so meany levels
NTA. You have to follow through with expectations, or she will walk all over you. You made it clear what the expectations were for her to come to Disney with you, and she chose not to comply. Oh, well. This is only going to get worse as she gets older into her teenage years, unfortunately. The best you can do is leave the door open, but stop begging for her to come and be a part of the family. As one relative told me about another troublesome relative, "I always invite, but I never expect. If they show up, great. If they don't, well, that's their choice."
Info: why has your wife not fought for an actual custody arrangement?
Second this question. The kid was 7 when step father appeared so what was going on prior to that. Why does she not have joint custody? 12 is too young for right of refusal. How does a mother go 4 WEEKS without seeing her 12 year old daughter that lives on the same block? Why is Disneyland being used as a carrot for her to visit and why isn’t there a mandated visitation schedule????
we almost went to court when she was 9 after 2 years of stress. but he started manipulating her really bad and she was mad at us for trying to make her live miserable. after talking to a psychologist and lawyer we decided not to continu with this. If we would have done this, court would maybe given us more time with hrr. bit he would frame it like "they take you away from me".. furthen alienating us in the process. ex is a proper gaslighter since it took my wife so long to make to step away (even toug it was a really bad situation.) at the point she left him, the ex allready portraited my wife as the bad one to stephdaughter with succes. offcourse since he is the perfect dad in her eyes since he does everything she wants all the time.
"he started manipulating her really bad and she was mad at us for trying to make her live miserable" That's parental alienation and had you taken him to court over it, it's likely the judge would have come down hard on her dad and put a stop to it.
And the less time with dad, the less control he would have had over her. She may have been mad at first, but at 9years old, could have had the stability she needed.
[удалено]
No. Kid's gonna be fucked up becase her dad's a cunt, don't try and blame the woman here. Fuckwit
[удалено]
it was allready a long post, and since i didnt ask advice on that specific part i left out what we tried and why this was not the best option. the ex ia a huge gaslighter and narcissist. But in court you need hard proof and that she did not have. And he had plenty of "proof". He set up conversations said very nasting things and the secretly recorded it from her reaction. Makes her look very bad and plainly lies. He forges and manipulated and tried to do that to me as well. Luckely i was prepared for that and have cameras with sound in my hallway and at my front door. so when he sended me a letter tru his lawyer i could easely proof that the facts where different then he claimed then to be. and that is just 1 example. After consulting with a lawyer and psychologist we decides not to go to court in the interest of the child. it causes my wife/ her mom pain almost every day still.
we still hope that when she goes to high school she will see that we where right all along and she figures out her serself we want the best for her. for instance when she gets called out for not brushing her hair or being smelly. it is hard, but we remain hopefull. we keeo being nice amd keep inviting her over but will not be blackmailed with " i want sushi or i go earing with my dad."
Ah, so because she was upset, your wife leaves her kid with a deadbeat, who doesn't care about this kid, doesn't make the kid bathe, very likely isn't taking care of her health, doesnt' buy her anything, won't be supporting her doing her school work. yeah, she's upset so give up on your 9 year old child. She doesn't see her kid for 4 weeks when the kid lives on the same fucking street and you can both walk your asses over there, check on the house, check how the kid is doing and you know, see her. Somehow it's the kids responsibility to visit. this all sounds fucking pathetic. >offcourse since he is the perfect dad in her eyes since he does everything she wants all the time. that's not how courts work. The court would have a psychologist interview her, "my daddies great", how is he great, he doesn't make me go to bed, or shower, or do homework, or eat nasty vegetables. YOu think a court hears that and goes well she likes him so it's great, or goes wow he's a shit father.
I also find this story very weird. And it seems she really doesn't care at all and didn't tantrum for not going to Disneyland. So if OP is feeling TA, it is for insisting so much this kid's attention. Maybe, just maybe, this might be some situation in which the mom left her marriage first. And instead of bounding with her daughter, she married OP and was already having the other kids. This situation could be a case where the kid has already signed off the family and now is living her pre teens far away. Feels it was a huge mistake to live close to her father. Should have found another environment where she would have to stay no matter what. And therapy. Family therapy. Not just her. Sorry OP but you will have to work a way that doesn't sound like promising a gift to keep her close. The idea that your stepdaughter will regret this is far away from the truth. I would definitely talk with a family therapist (just you and the mother) and figure a way to not let her rebellious phase be a bigger problem in the future. If she is like this already, hold yourselves because she sounds like the delinquent teen that will steal, smoke, wear awful clothes, hit her siblings and call you names. So, be more grey rock. Lock your wallet and her mother's purse when she is around. Put cameras in the living room. Make sure all rooms are locked. Don't give her an extra key to get in the house. Try to plan her birthday and Xmas, a week earlier with her because on the real date, she will use it to hurt you all again (emotionally). Also, don't show love through gifts, money, clothes and food (sushi). Try just accept her presence. Don't let a visit end with money either.
yes i think you are right on most parts. But my wife (her mom) was allready the "bad" one in previous relation because she said no sometimes and wanted to apply some rules and structure. while the ex (dad) does whatever she wants when she wants. i think indeed we have tried tried to gain time with activities and gifts and realised to late what was happening. me wife but also me want the best for her, want that she walks in clean clothes and daily fresh underwear (she allready had way to much bladder infections for a 12 year old) but she sees tbat as nagging... and literally sais if you wouldnt give me rules i would come more often
I understand. The thing is that I have a female cousin that was sort of alike. But she went through the path of hiding cigarettes and only showing up at my aunt's when she got into trouble (not with her dad but since she was expected to be at his house, no one would look after her at my aunt's house. She would wait for the dust settles and disappear again.). I don't like her. Your step kid will says bs at some point. So when you travel to Disney, just block her bio Dad and grandparents from that side. Don't buy her gifts. She will throw them away. If you post pictures, make them private too. These days, with all these social media, people tend to distort everything. I would maximum give her Dad in front of her a few bucks for emergency (hospital, docs, meds). I know he will spend it. But let her know you didn't leave her behind with nothing (but money will be her daddy faults to spend it). And again, don't leave the house unwatched. Place a camera in the living room. Some alarms (there some very cheap that works on battery). Lock all doors. Be careful with the gas. Might turn down water pipe. And ask a family member unrelated to her, to go there and see if it all okay. I would also leave the car at somewhere else. We also lock all our eletronic (tv, computer, games, sounds) in one room that has a much better lock system.
Also he bought a house in the same fucking street. Why is an adult waiting for HER CHILD to visit her when she can literally walk over to see her, but apparently won't. Why has she not called CPS or equivalent to report that this kid has no rules, no schedule, doesn't wash and is presumably eating unhealthily and very unlikely to be doing homework or behaving well at school. somehow she is dictating how often she stays with the father but her custody agreement doesn't. He's living off child support, paying for the mortgage, or rent, food, his bike and bills all off child support, that's not generally how child support works anywhere in the world. He'd be broke as shit by now.
this was a very difficult choice, but we think we did the right thing. If we would have done this, court would maybe given us more time. bit he would frame it like "they take you away from me".. furthen alienating us in the process. ex is a proper gaslighter since it took my wife so long to make to step away (even toug it was a really bad situation.) at the point she left him, the ex allready portraited my wife as the bad one to stephdaughter with succes. offcourse since he is the perfect dad in her eyes since he does everything she wants all the time.
Info: you say she was lying asking for money for preschool two years ago. She was 10 two years ago. What preschool did you think a 10 year old was going to?
It's probably a mistranslated term from the OP's mother tongue.
I'm also confused by this
primaryschool, srry english is not my first language
ESH sounds like nobody is really parenting her. It was a mistake to buy a house down the street because now she has the ability to come and go as she wants, and none of you are really parenting her. Why isn't there a solid custody agreement in place, if not between her parents then by court order? Why isn't there a set time she has to come stay with you like is normal between most divorced parents? Again, buying down the street was a big mistake. And because she has so much leniency from all the parents, she's learned she can manipulate you by choosing to spend time with you or not. Her parents are the ones who set this whole situation up and continue to allow it to happen. Ya'll are afraid to discipline her because you're afraid she'll stop visiting you. Why do you give her that much power in your relationship? You've literally handed her the power to control your relationship. That's shitty parenting. If I was in this situation, I'd sell this house and buy far enough away she can't walk back and forth. Then go back to court and get a real custody agreement where she has to spend time at your house. Then when she's at your house, start setting some boundaries and some discipline. Hopefully it's not too late to re-establish the parent-child relationship.
NTA,but your wife is,she should fight for her
Does your wife spend any alone time with her? Or is it always with the whole family and your kids?
NTA - your step daughter has been ruined by her father who is not much of a parent. She’s a child and this isn’t her fault but you don’t have anyway to implement or influence change with her. And there in lies the root of the problem. There is zero co-parenting between your wife and her ex. Likely not your wife’sfault. As a child if you have a parent who lets you do whatever you want and a parent who has rules and structure, you’re not wise enough to choose what’s best for you. I know it’s hard, especially for your wife but perhaps go to counseling together with your wife to make peace with the situation and then if she calls wanting something, be kind but just tell her it’s not available right now. If she voluntarily comes over, be polite and friendly. Get her a small gift for Christmas and for her birthday but don’t go out of your way for her. Cause if you do, you are rewarding the behavior you don’t want. Avoid telling her anymore that she has to come over and visit and have a relationship with you to get things. You’ve told her that. She doesn’t care because you give her stuff anyway. Ie - no consequence.
THIS!!!
Nta. You told her what she needed to do to come. And she didn't care. So she doesn't come. That's simply.
Why do I see this story every day???
maybe the titel, because it happens a lot. the story however is always a bit differenr
NTA she's toxic as hell OP if I were you try to tell your wife that if she feels okay with it give her ex, main custody then she'll see how good she had it when she's tired and dirty as hell stuck with a dad who's obsessed with a bike and don't take her to Disney land
NTA It's really sucky and sad for your wife but fifteen is old enough to understand that actions have consequences. If you allow her to come on the trip with you, it's only teaching her that it's okay to treat people poorly and still benefit from them.
NTA but your wife is a piece of shit deadbeat parent or she would have already gone to court for alienation and to enforce custody.
this was a very difficult choice, but we think we did the right thing. If we would have done this, court would maybe given us more time. bit he would frame it like "they take you away from me".. furthen alienating us in the process. ex is a proper gaslighter since it took my wife so long to make to step away (even toug it was a really bad situation.) at the point she left him, the ex allready portraited my wife as the bad one to stephdaughter with succes. offcourse since he is the perfect dad in her eyes since he does everything she wants all the time.
Well then YTA too. You take the piece of shit ex to court for alienation. Your wife is pathetic and you're both shitty parents.
we made this decision with multiple proffesionals who know children minds and the dutch law system. But thanks for your opinion, even toug it is a bit harshly formulated
She already said she doesn’t care. Stop caring so much and don’t even acknowledge when she’s around. You’ve done more than enough for her. Even if you were to bring her to Disney, would she enjoy herself?? Seems like she’ll cause problem then nobody would enjoy Disney. NTA.
ahe sais she doesnt care, but i know she cares. i can see it in her face. but indeed, i think she wont enjoy the fact we have rules and structure and will not give in to her every whim.. it is still hard, since i want to treat all children the same and want her to have that expierence
NTA!!! You are kidding, right? Simply, actions meet consequences. Cause meet effect. Bug meet windshield. Your stepdaughter has not yet learned the basic rules of human interaction and decency. As for your trip to Disneyland, she FAFO!
Nta follow through with consequences. I would be worried about her behaviour at the end of the day..
NTA but stop bribing her to come see you, she will never care about you.
Nta she needs consequences. are you able to set up therapy for her? She might like someone to talk to because it sounds like she is isolated by her dad and at 12 it seems like an unsafe situation for her.
NTA. She comes to visit when it's to her advantage otherwise doesn't care
NTA. First of all, you made clear to her the conditions for her coming, and she didn't keep them. Secondly, being saddled with her for a few days in a foreign country would be a nightmare. You made the right decision.
NTA. She is learning that her actions have consequences. However, I wouldn't do Disneyland with 2 toddlers. They can only get on a couple of rides since they're so young. Disney is EXPENSIVE and you wouldn't be able to really enjoy the majority of the parks to justify paying those prices. Take them to Sesame Place or Legoland. Those parks caters to younger children. When they are 6 and 8, try Disney then as your entire family will be able to enjoy the parks to justify the cost.
Don’t take her to Disney. You will have way more fun without her and her attitude.
you and your wife are pushovers and this girl is going to get what she wants regardless. for that YTA
Sounds like she's addicted to either video games or social media and has to get back to base camp. The rules at her dad's might be less stringent than yours. NTA so enjoy your trip without guilt.
That’s wierd yea I think it shows your true intentions because if you love your husband you would love his kid just as much because they are part of him and to not involve her that’s not right on so meany levels