I had to re-read that part. Like WTF!?!
What kind of deluded idiot does that! Or maybe she's not completely stupid. Maybe she's hooked on conflict and drama? She couldn't have expected the party to end in anything but violence, surely?
YTA for pushing your father into your brothers life. Why are you complaining about your dad to him? Why the HELL would you invite your dad to the going away party? You show consistently that you care more about your dad than your brother so good for him he decided to not show up and waste anymore of his time. Major YTA, and congratulations on losing a great brother for a subpar and abusive father. The reason your brother left is because he’s realized you display the same abusive tendencies as your father. You’re truly your father’s daughter. You got what you wanted! Huzzah 🙌🏻
What’s crazy is OP also doesn’t make the connection that their dad couldn’t clean up his act or not be abusive for them. He only did it because of Anna and her kids. Like Roman probably still has the feeling of not being enough or loved by dad, because he wasn’t worth dad changing. If Anna didn’t come along, what does OP believe would have happened? Pretty sure the abuse would have continued.
OP, it was your decision to forgive your dad. You have NO right to try and force your brother to reconcile or engage in any positive way with your dad. You should have respected his decision. You knew your brother didn’t want to talk about your dad or the trauma he caused, but you’d complain as if he’d care. You invited someone he wanted no contact to his goodbye party and are upset he didn’t show. Why would he? You don’t respect his boundaries.
YTA.
This perspective is absolutely valid, but I feel like everyone is missing the ages. OP was 10 when they forgave dad. TEN. 16 at the time of the going away party.
As an adult, OP needs to let it go, but let’s not pretend a 10-year-old child is an AH for forgiving their father.
Never said there were an AH for forgiving dad. I said that was their choice. The AH part comes in with trying to force interactions or a relationship between Roman and dad.
When? OP has not seen or talked to the brother since they were 16 years old! They go away party happened while OP was a child living under their father’s roof. Are you trying to say that a child should have known better?
The 16 year OP definitely knew Roman wanted nothing to do with their dad. He had been clear about that many times. OP should not have tried to host a going away party that included their dad. The biggest joke was dad being hurt that Roman didn’t show up.
People say a 16 year old can't possibly know what they're doing because they're minors. Except when it's convenient for the discussion. I don't really know your particular opinion on the subject. I do lean in thinking they understand what they're doing but in some cases they hope it will work out.
Yes cause how could any kid know that person a doesn't like person b so let's not invite person b to a's party. I forget you are completely brain dead til you hit 18
Their father with whom the alternative to a "friendly" relationship might be a beating.
I really feel for Roman; he did what he could and he can't take any more, and I hope he leads a good life with loving people. But OOP sounds like a classic fawner. As a child, they couldn't fight or flee, so they went with trying to ingratiate themselves as a safety mechanism.
People who haven't had their entire relationship to people in positions of power ground ruthlessly into them at an early age really don't get how automatic some of these responses are, or how much time, effort, and frankly luck it takes to realize the problem, confront it, and work on it. It is just as much an ingrained form of damage as kids who lash out, run away, or fall into deep depressions.
OOP is almost certainly perpetuating a behavior that began in response to trauma, and while that doesn't mean Roman needs to accept it or come to terms with it, it's ignorant and heartless not to acknowledge the fear and damage underpinning this sort of fear-based "forgiveness." What other choice did an abused 10 year old have?
Also in a lot of these cases the oldest child gets it the worst because they actively protect the younger siblings. His brother probably took a lot to spare him.
OP edited the party portion a bit. I’m not sure what else they changed though. The party portion makes it less obvious the abusive dad was there bc they invited him. But still pretty much the same.
Yeah, she invited the Dad to the Party. That was "pushing your father into your brother's life."
Seems like the Brother didn't even know about that.
I don't see the OP as TA because she forgave her Father. Is it healthier to just stay angry and forever hold a grudge? It's each sibling right to do as they see fit. The Brother didn't forgive him...and she did.
No, she's not TA for forging her Father. The Brother isn't TA for NOT forgiving him.
The Father was the only AH.
OP had been pushing for her brother to accept their father back. That’s not no, but HELL NO. Also, the brother has the right to say 🖕🏾his dad and the sis too. Put yourself in the brother’s shoes and then tell us how you feel. Yeah, OP and the shitty father are both AH
The "my dad is heartbroken" bit left me gobsmacked. Roman got the brunt of the abuse but OP is all "oh, boo hoo, our poor dad, he's so sad the child he tormented doesn't want to see him".
I'm wondering if she's been brainwashed by her father? Her wording is very suspicious and more than a little concerning Good for her brother for staying away from her vile manipulation and emotional abuse to her brother.
More than likely her behavior is trauma induced. The abused person often changes their behavior to prevent further abuse and convinces themselves it couldn’t have been that bad. Because look how he treats stepmom and step sibling. Not a therapist, just a teacher for 29 years that has had to work with abused kids before. (Yes CPS was involved)
She needs ALL the therapy. I don’t absolve/forgive her for her behavior. I know her brother doesn’t. But it is interesting to figure out the motive. If, by chance, she reads down through the comments it might motivate her to reevaluate her actions and seek help.
YTA
You say Roman received the brunt of the abuse. Do you not realise that he was likely protecting you? He took most of it so that you wouldn't have to? And in response, you forgave his abuser, complained to him about his abuser, and tried to force him to spend time with his abuser by springing a going away party on him.
You aren't entitled to another moment of his time, and you certainly aren't entitled to meet his children. By siding with a man who was violent towards a child, you have proved to him that you are dangerous. He would never be able to trust you around his children, and for that alone, he will never be around you again. You made choices. And these are the consequences. Get over it.
YTA.
Your dad was an abusive POS. You chose to forgive the abusive POS. That choice has a consequence. The consequence is that your brother saw what he meant to you which is less than the abusive POS. He decided to show you what you meant to him in turn which is nothing.
You made your bed so lie in it. If I was your brother I wouldn't let you meet my kids either because you forgave and have a relationship with someone who regularly abused children. That makes you a bad person who I wouldn't leave alone with children. Your stepmother is also a horrible person, why would you marry and leave your children around someone who abused his own children.
Your dad should be in prison.
I hope your brother has an amazing life. I hope karma gets you.
Yeah, bro was older so got and remembers more and sadly the behaviors he showed, which OP uses to paint him in a bad light.... Were taught to him as a child, by his dad.
Hopefully the service will help keep him on the right track, and he can keep this toxic family in his rear view mirror
YTA. As someone who was physically abused to the point of being removed from the home I would do exactly what Roman did. I wouldn’t speak to any of my sisters who were giving updates on my kids to my abuser they would be cut off too. Just because they forgave doesn’t mean I have to.
Btw Roman could forgive him and never speak to him again. It’s called protecting your peace.
YTA
You abandoned your brother for the man that broke his mind and ability to function, then tried to guilt trip him for being upset about it.
Dude, you're a shit brother. You just proved that when the cards are down you won't have his back. Not only that, you'll try to force him to be around people who hurt him.
You're selfish and purely concerned with your weird "daddy love me" fantasy from a violent nutcase than supporting your own brother.
Your brother is allowed to go NC with his abusive dad, and anyone who supports his abusive dad.
You knew that’s where he was at… why are you surprised? You made your choice and this is the very predictable result.
Btw I want you to know that from his perspective, you’re basically saying “hey bro, I’m totally OK with everything dad did to you.” So…. Why would he want to talk to you?
YTA you weren’t robbed of having a close sibling bond you chose one bond over the other. You said it yourself your brother got the worst of the abuse so why on earth would you expect him to be okay with someone who forgave his abuser? Granted you were also abused but you chose to forgive him your bother hasnt so you complaining over “ normal teenage things” about his abuser to him was just another smack in the face. Just because someone changes it doesnt make up for all the wrong doings in the past. Whats even worse is he didnt change on his own he changed for a women and her daughters not for his own kids. This whole post is about you and your feelings why cant you see that you aren’t the victim here. Actions have consequences… Your brother chose no contact because contact with you means his abuser has access to him and his family.
YTA. Why did you keep forcing your father into your brother's life ? You know that Roman got worse treatment than you did from your father. Have you ever respected that? Leave your brother alone. You and your father have caused enough damage.
Yes YTA. You should go to therapy to deal with the trauma from the abuse you survived as a kid and seriously learn about what that means and what it does to people. Then you can understand what it did to your brother (and you) and the betrayal your brother felt and went through when you forgave his abuser.
I have a feeling that when you start dealing with your childhood, you'll realise that your dad didn't become a paragon when he stopped drinking, his behaviour just got subtler. Which is obvious because he never understood or accepted that the child he beat and abused for 10 years wouldn't forgive him on his timeline and constantly forced contact including through others (you).
You were a little kid who wanted a daddy, we understand that. But you're not a little kid anymore. Actions have consequences and you need to deal with yours. Start with serious therapy and go from there.
Lol, from the way you describe it you threw him a surprise party and invited his abuser 🫠 He shouldn’t have you in his life until you learn some sense.
Your brother is keeping himself, his wife and his children away from his abuser and the abusers enablers.
Stop being so entitled and woe is me. You cannot expect your brother to want anything to do with your Father no matter how much he's "cleaned up his act" it's irrelevant. No one is entitled to forgiveness
I definitely don't. Not the Navy, but this guy from the air force had a booth at my school and I asked if he flew any planes/jets. Apparently only like 3% of people in the air force fly. Didn't plan on joining, but that definitely squashed any possibility. I wanted to fly🙁
I would take whatever a family member has to say about the military with a grain of salt honestly. I know people who have been in almost 20 years and their families couldn't give you an accurate description of what they do, how they did it etc. This is not a one off either and not for a lack of trying.
THANK YOU! First thing I picked up. You enlist in the Navy, you are chosen to attempt to become a SEAL. And then there's something like a 90% washout rate. SEAL training is some of the hardest in the world. The SEALs do not play.
Title should be changed why can't OP understand he did every thing wrong that he could have done to a victim of abuse and wonders why.
Life isn't fast n furious, you don't get to say family and move on.
Take it from someone who went through this. My dad molested me for 10 years; he told me it was my fault, I started it, and worse I believed him. I defended him and myself for years. Cut off my siblings who tried to tell me he was manipulating me. I married right away and let my dad live with me, even though he did this to me. He also was having affairs and left my mom destitute. I still took his side. It was until I was in my 30s and daughter (12 at the time) told me she knew what happened and the light bulb went off in my head and I was like “what the hell am I doing?” I cut my dad off the next day and went to therapy. And it’s been 10 years since I have talked to him. I’ve had horrible relationships with my siblings (3 brothers and 1 sister). It wasn’t until my mom passed away in 2022 that all of siblings were together again. And we were old enough to speak about all the trauma we experienced and we’ve been slowly working things out.
All of this to say, you can never force a victim to be around their abuser. Maybe your dad has changed. Maybe he hasn’t. You know that your brother’s experience was worse. He probably feels betrayed because you forgave your father, when he most likely took on more to save you. You are allowed to have your own relationship with him and forgive your dad, but that means you don’t get to have a relationship with your brother. I have one brother who still talks to my dad and even though he and I talk, we barely do. I don’t want my dad knowing anything about me. I don’t take pictures with him because I know he posts to social, and I don’t want him seeing me and my family. He lost that right.
Studies show people who have been abused by parents don’t really understand until their brains have fully developed. So around late 20s/early 30s before they fully understand their abuse.
I wish you lots of love and healing ❤️🩹
YTA. And I agree that you are the biggest piece of shit on earth.
What part of your brother took the worst of the abuse to protect you do you not understand?
You spit in his face when you chose the abuser over your brother.
Leave him & his family ALONE.
So your dad was a despicable abuser and you were the favourite. He only stopped being abusive (and I imagine only the physical abuse stopped) once he moved some random woman and her kids in; so again the child(ren) he damaged came last.
You forgave your dad. As the child who was targeted less.
Your brother made a life for himself. He cleaned up his act (yeah those bad habits, that bad crowd? You can thank your dad for that too) and got married and has children and thank god he will never have them around his abuser or the one who minimized the abuse. That’s you by the way.
You just sound so condescending and willfully ignorant. We threw him a party and he didn’t even show!!! Come on.
Stop being a victim.
YTA.
Roman took a bunch of beatings so you wouldn't have to. He protected you from the worst of it. He protected you so well, you ended up being less damaged to the extent you went and forgave your dad for all the damage he did to Roman. You did this because you wanted to "look good" and "be the forgiving type."
Well, that's EASY for you to do since you had him pay the price for you. Those who have others pay the price never understand how much pain the other person is in. You had the easy life, you took the easy way out because everything was easy for you.
Did you for once EVER think about how much he suffered and how much anger he still has towards your dad? No. You are a fool, and never did because you had it easy. So easy you forgave your dad, and then expected the scapegoat to do the same.
Nothing you can do now will ever make up for that betrayal. In fact, you forgiving your dad is such a huge insult to him, it's no wonder he can't even stand to look at you. All you're demonstrating to the internet is how much of a narcissist you are making it all about you, when he's the one who was beaten badly by your abusive dad. The physically abusive dad who taught you all about how to abuse your brother.
He at least is doing the right thing keeping his family away from your emotional abuse and your physically abusive dad. No parent wants their vulnerable children around an emotionally abusive aunt who basically condones abuse. He's only protecting them from you. You are in no way entitled to any relationship with them.
As someone who is familiar with the military, you should know those good folk (especially marines) do not look kindly upon domestic violence abusers. Your dad should be in jail. Nothing will ever make up for the pain your brother suffered.
You are right about one thing though. You're the biggest shit on earth.
YTA, big time. This one hits a little close to home and I’m totally siding with your brother. I as well had a very abusive father who cheated on my mom and was abusive to her and hit me and my two younger sisters. I used to always take the blame for my sisters on everything just so I could get the beating instead of them. He left the house when I was 17 and finally big enough to defend myself and my mother and sisters. The SOB tried to turn it on me against all his friends and side of the family. I discovered all his double life of cheating and he blamed my mother and was about to hit her when I hit him back. This was 10 years ago. I had to go through college and work at the same time to provide for my sisters and mother (thankfully we all got full ride scholarships at the best college in our country so that was covered). So all in all, I perfectly understand your brother because I would feel the same if my sisters would forgive and start talking to my father after all that happened.
It seems some people here do not realize that you forgave him as a child. You were ten. YTA for ever trying to change your brother’s mind about your dad. But I can see why a ten year old kid would forgive his dad.
You do realize your betrayal is all the worse because he took the brunt of your dad's abuse to protect you, right? You made your choice; now leave him alone and live with it. YTA.
It may also bother Roman that your father never apologized or tried to make amends (unless you left that out). Begging for forgiveness and "cleaning up his act" for his new family doesn't mean jack if he hasn't recognized the enormous hurt and trauma he caused you and Roman. I wonder if your dad want(ed) to be forgiven just to feel better about himself and impress his new family. It is absolutely not your place to try to shove your father back in your brother's life or try to make him feel bad for going no contact with an abuser, even if the abuse is (supposedly) in the past. Definitely YTA for not respecting his personal choices.
And before anyone says anything about Roman's behavior to his half-siblings and their mother, yes, he's TA in that regard but he's still entitled to draw boundaries and decide on what, if any, kind of relationship to have with his father.
YTA. He’s perfectly right to not allow someone who abused him in his life. You’ve aligned yourself with his abuser. You also complain to HIS ABUSER that he isn’t nice to you? You stalk him which in and of itself is abusive. You’ve only yourself to blame and why would you invite HIS ABUSER to his going away party? It shows you’re a disrespectful self centered overcooked ravioli.
Abuse leave lasting scars, you admitted he had it worse. You then sided with your father which was most likely seen as another betrayal from someone he trusted. You messed up, and this may be something that you can never recover from.
Sometimes the only way to survive trauma like that is to completely remove yourself from that situation.
You don’t know how bad it was for him. Leave him be.
You invited his abuser to the party. You knew he hadn’t forgiven him. You knew he wanted nothing to do with him. And you don’t see the problem?
It’s all fine and good that you forgave him. It doesn’t mean he has to. YTA.
We are done accepting, excusing and associating with abusers. Especially our abusers. When someone hurts someone you love you don’t get both people in your life.
You get one. And you chose the abuser.
YTA. Leave your brother alone.
YTA. Your dad all of a sudden, deciding to be a better person doesn’t change your brother’s memories. It doesn’t change the trauma. It doesn’t change the pain and you forgiving him. Says your shit doesn’t matter your trauma doesn’t matter you don’t matter. You should get over it. You’re worse than your father.
She expected a very happy reunion and brother forgiving his abuser cause of some sappy story. Some people are like hollow sticks. You just break them open and shake the shit out of them until the light bulb comes on.
This is hard because it sounds like you forgave your dad as a child, when you were reliant on your dad and easily manipulated. But I do think YTA.
Your brother took the brunt of your dad’s abuse. Do you even really know how bad it was? Guy became a Seal so no-one could hurt him again.
If you want a relationship with your brother, you will need to ask him. You will need to make the effort. You will need to apologise. Do not include your father unless your brother specifically asks. I would imagine it’s very hard for your brother, you forgave someone who hurt him really badly, and he was probably very lonely throughout his childhood because of it. I don’t think I’d want to re-establish contact with you tbh.
Not for forgiving your father- that’s your right and your right alone. But you can’t try to force Roman to do so and you can’t expect him to be okay with it. Let him go and accept that he will never be your brother. And for trying to force a relationship that he obviously did not want, YTA.
This is all your fault. Your dad abused you both, him worse. And yet you forgave him??? No wonder he went no contact with all of you. You're easily manipulated and the "dad" is one bad day away from beating his new family.
He stood his ground and never forgave his abuser. Fuck your dad. Your brother put up with his shit and moved on with his life.
You made the choice to sympathize with your own abuser and keep him in your life. He is not going to overlook this "changed man" bullshit. He's still the same person. The same person who you see now is still the same person that did horrible things.
You chose your abuser over your brother, and you get the consequences you deserve.
He didn’t trust your dad, who had abused him. You forgave your dad and promptly started trying to force your brother to spend time with your dad. You proved to your brother that he couldn’t trust you.
Ask yourself: if you did see your brother's kids, how long before you started trying to introduce them to your dad?
That's why you will never have a relationship with your brother, because you can't accept that you hurt him further.
YTA because you still don’t fully grasp the situation. Your father abused you both but you admit your brother got the worse of it.
As the older sibling- he was probably protecting you.
You say dad got better when he remarried. No mention of therapy or treatment that would have worked to heal not only his relationship you both, but help your brother heal from the abuse.
You say your brother acted out, was rude and cruel to SM & stepsiblings, again, no mention of your brother getting support or treatment to deal with his abuse just an indictment of his behavior. Behavior that is pretty typical of kids that are abused btw.
Also you say dad was better- do you know that to be true in your brothers case? Because brother’s experiences & yours would be vastly different. And a typical behavior of abusers is to isolate the victim from all support. Like his brother. & surrounding them with people who support the abuser, like sm and step siblings. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to discover the abuse of your brother continued but perhaps in a more insidious way- like making him the family scapegoat. No wonder he bailed the moment he was able. And of course he went NC with all of you- because you support his abuser. But also, what would happen if he allowed you in his life? You’ve already proven you would invite his abuser to a party in his honor- would you also invite his abuser around his kids? Provide updates to the abuser on his family? You’ve proven to your brother that you cannot be trusted. You are not safe.
Stop cyberstalking this man and let him live his life and hopefully enjoy the peace he has found, away from abusers and their enablers
I can't come to a conclusion as to whether you're the AH or not. You have every right to forgive your father, but he has every right not to. Trying to push your choice on him is not your place. However, you were still a kid at the time, so you had already set on always supporting your dad, when he did a 180. This is a tough one for me. I do think it's time to accept the fact that you have to let him go, because he already has.
YTA for trying to push a relationship with your abusive father on him when you even explain here that he was treated worse than you were. He has every right to be NC with both your father and you. Your dad changing is good but that doesn’t change the trauma your brother went through. He owes neither of you a damn thing.
YTA get rid of contact of your father it doesn’t deserve forgiveness I hope the brother doesn’t forgive you cause what kind of sister who forgives there abusive father who hurt their siblings if you was roman you would probably never forgive your father so give a reason why should he other than he has change for the better speech
YTA. Of course he didn’t want to forgive that abusive POS and the only reason you did is because your brother was the one that got most of it and you got it easy. So what if he cleaned up his act, does that remove the abuse that Roman had to endure? Does it heal his trauma? Fuck no, it didn’t and it won’t. You even choose to complain about his abuser, that you had forgiven for the abuse, to him! The audacity of that is astounding. I completely understand that he didn’t want to come to your party. He is better off without being around his abuser and people that isn’t understanding of his trauma. You made a choice and now you have to live with that. I hope Roman is happy and gets all the love and support he clearly didn’t get at home.
You literally forgave his abuser of course he wants nothing to do with you go be happy with your abusive dad there are some things that is unforgivable and child abuse is one of them YTA
OP, forgiving someone isn't the problem. You tried to push and keep your dad in your brother's life when your brother didn't want that.
He isn't ready to forgive. You should have respected that. If you had, you would have still had your brother in your life.
Leave him alone. Stop stalking his social media.
Yta
When I found out that my dad's step dad abused my dad and his siblings and my nanna allowed it to happen, I never spoke to them again. I would cross the street when I saw them and even when she was dying and my auntie said to me don't you think you should go see your nanna now she is dying I simply said no and left it at that
He doesn't have to have you in his life and he doesn't have to tell you anything about his life either
If it was me and my sister had forgiven the man who abused me I would see it as a massive betrayal and I wouldn't want anything to do with you either
You have got to be kidding. Are you dense or just self centered? Complaining about your dad that you forgave to the person who had no interest in them? YTA hard.
YTA
*You* chose to forgive your father. Your brother obviously did not.
You do not get to push your father back into your brother's life. Your brother is not required to forgive your father & if you continue to associate with him then your brother is allowed to cut contact with you, too.
YTA.
You’re not entitled to a relationship with your brother.
Your brother has a boundary and he’s executed it perfectly. His boundary is that he doesn’t want a relationship with his abusive father. Just because your father has “changed” doesn’t mean his victims have to forgive him.
The issue here isn’t that you forgave the abusive AH. It’s that you can’t accept the fact that your brother isn’t willing to do the same.
No one gives a shit if your dad was heartbroken. He’s not a victim here. The fact that you’re acting like he is one is just disgusting.
Stop stalking your brother and get over it. You made your choices. Your brother respected your choices. The least you do is respect his choices.
Also, the two of you were not “really young” when this stuff happened. You were 10 and 12 ffs.
OP YTA so glaringly neon flashing sign. Brother got the worst of it, probably to protect your ass. And what do you do, forgive the abuser and then attempt to force your abused brother to do the same.
If I knew who your brother was, I'd immediately let him know you've been stalking him and know about his kids, and have been informing his abuser about him. Hell, I'd even help him block your ability to find him. I never get so pissed off than we when people think it's ok to gloss over abuse or force forgiveness.
Who the fuck cares if your dad is heartbroken? He was a POS to you and your brother. You want to forgive what he did, good for you. But you get to deal with the destruction of the relationship with your older brother. You want to be on your father's side, then you get to deal with the consequences of never knowing your brother's family. Don't whine and vent about poor you, you chose this. You chose to complain about your dad to the person who hurt him badly trying to keep you safer.
I can't even believe what your brother must have been feeling when the one he was trying to protect, the one he got hurt worse to keep safe...turned around and set up camp in team dad.
You don't deserve a relationship with your brother, his wife, his kids, or his friends. Not a one. You chose your side, suck it up. The only unfortunate thing is you were selfish enough not to consider the trauma and damage your brother had to go through and he had to witness it.
YTA. Definitely. You chose to seek the love of your abusive father over that of your older brother who potentially stood between the two of you. And now you don’t understand his lack of forgiveness??? From his perspective you have completely betrayed him. Gross. 🤢 🤮
Your brother had 2 more years of abuse than you did and you stated his abuse was worse . I wonder if he shielded you as many older siblings do. You big time F’d up when you complained to him about your dad. I seriously doubt he will forgive you. Get some therapy and figure out why your brother is no contact. You may not ever have a relationship with him, but it might stop you from F’ing up any future relationships.
Well, well, welll, if it's not the consequences of your own actions!
You made a choice, pal, now be an adult and face the consequences. You don't deserve his company, so now you don't have it.
YTA
Your dad is scum, and solely for forgiving the bastard, you're not a whole lot better. How on earth can you only see your point of view and not your brothers?!
He not only was victim to the worst of his abuse, but now you're trying to get his abuser back in his life??
Fuck you and your dad. and fuck anne for marrying him
I went through something similar w/ my younger sister... It's a long story, but it's crazy how different your childhood experiences can be when you're two years older than someone else. It can shape your early childhood, which in turn shapes how you experience your older childhood. My younger sister ended up w/ a much closer relationship w/ my emotionally abusive step-mother... For a long time it just felt like it was those 3 against me. I couldn't confide in her b/c she would just tell my parents because the three of them were friends and I felt like the outcast. Eventually I moved out and I didn't go no-contact on purpose, I just felt like I had escaped that living situation and had no desire to go back to it, and no desire to maintain a real relationship. I wasn't angry at anyone at that point, I had just moved on.
Now, years later, we're all friendly, but I barely talk to any of them. I just rarely feel the desire to. My sister still does the same thing; If I tell her something personal it makes it to my parents, who I might not want to hear about things like that. So I just don't talk to her about stuff I don't want my parents in on... I just pretend she has me on speakerphone in a room with them. I'd let them know if I was getting married but I don't think they'd be part of that.
You're not the asshole for having a different early childhood experience than your brother did. You're not the asshole for approaching your later childhood differently and forgiving your dad. I suspect your brother's kind of in the same boat as me, though, and just doesn't feel any draw to go back to that family situation that just didn't work for him, that didn't really include him in the same way as everyone else. You were on Team Parents and he was on Team Him. Idk how old you or him are, but over time maybe you can approach him to form some sort of relationship. Just know that he'll be more likely to form any kind of a relationship w/ YOU, than with your family through you. He's not looking for a gateway back to your dad and stepfamily. Sounds like he needs therapy to get over that time in his life, though, and to put those childhood grudges behind him.
YTA. I know you meant well but you can’t push people to feel the same way you do. You forgave your father, but he is not ready to do that. What you did probably feels like a betrayal to him. It was the 2 of you against him, then you “made up with the enemy”. Being older, probably saved you a lot of times, looking out for you.
INFO: was your dad going to be at his party?
Because that’s fucked up. Your dad isn’t entitled or earned any forgiveness from him. He was abused by your father. Abused.
“My brother had it worse than me”
You have answered your own question right there. Just because YOU forgave your father, doesn’t mean your brother should, and he definitely doesn’t need to have your father force fed to him.
Choices have consequences, good and bad; you chose to forgive your father and have him in your life. Doing so cost you a relationship with your brother. You have to live with that. Time will tell if it was all worth it.
YTA
Sorry but you fucked around and found out. NOBODY wants to keep their abusers in their life. No matter how much they have “changed “. Btw, YTA, and your father is the biggest,shittiest AH if all.
It's amazing that this horribly abused child who carried the emotional scars with him when he was forced to live with abuser throughout he teen years enlisted, made it into the SEALS which is incredibly challenging, married, and had a family of his own. Roman must be made of steal.
I don't care how freaking heartbroken the man who abused him until he was 12 was when Roman didn't show at a party thrown for him by his former abuser and the family that pushed him to forgive what he believed was unforgivable.
I would suggest that should you decide to communicate with Roman again, that all there should be is an apology that you didn't appreciate his pain and that you selfishly wanted everyone to get along and be all happy happy happy when obviously that was impossible for him, and that you didn't realize until recently how disloyal you were to push him in that direction and not to see why and support him in not forgiving the man who abused him.
Tell him that you admire the outstanding things he's accomplished in his life, and that it breaks your heart that you can't know him or his family.
That's it. Then see what happens. Given that you were very young when a lot of this was going on, maybe he's forgive you and want to know you. Or maybe he won't.
But if he does, not one damn word about your father. Not one damn word about wishing he'd forgive your father. Not one damn word about your father's feelings. And not one excuse from you. Just say you're sorry. Then listen.
YTA
So…. I don’t think you are the ah. You where a kid just trying to survive. You chose to forgive and that’s ok. However you have to accept that he isn’t ready to forgive. He may never forgive and that’s ok too. It sucks. I have an estranged sibling (tho she was my abuser). It’s hard. Some days it gets you down. However you have to understand from his point he was betrayed by two people who should have been loving (not that you where not loving but he felt a sence of betrayal). He got the worst of it. You will never know how bad it was for him.
So not the ah but respect his hurt. Don’t force him to care for your dad. Apologize for your part in his pain. Because you didn’t handle things well.
NTA. These comments blaming a 10-year-old for forgiving his father and loving him… geez.
While you should not try to get your brother to forgive or have a relationship with your dad, you could conceivably have good relationships with both separately… but only if they both wanted it.
Sadly, you can’t force your brother to talk to you. And you have to accept it is his right to cut off his abuser. But it is also your right to not cut off your father.
But you did nothing wrong by forgiving your dad or loving him.
All these comments with y t a votes are simplifying abuse by a parent. It’s hard because the parent is still your parent and someone you want to love. And you’re allowed to love him even if he doesn’t stop abusing you. But you’re also allowed to cut him off even if he does change and begs forgiveness. Your brother is not an asshole either.
so you can just like, become a navy seal at 18? or before 18? with a history of abuse and a broken home and fighting and probably some petty crimes? eh. nah. naaah. don't they require x years of service or something? and a very stable mind, and absolutely no anti social behaviour?
Seriously YTA
Your brother made it absolutely clear he didn't want anything to do with the abusive father
YOU took it upon yourself to meddle and try to force then back together, which rightfully blew up in your face
Leave him and his new family alone. You made your own shitty bed
Look man, I get where you're coming from, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Both of you are young, both of you are victims of abuse. Neither of you are going to have the same reaction to that.
I think you need to give your brother time to be on his own and come to term with his feelings. I also think you need to seek individual therapy to come to terms with the abuse YOU faced as a child. NAH.
OP's reaction was to forgive even though they knew the brother got ot worse and then tried to force her brother to do the same.
OP is the worst kind of POS and people like you supporting her are just as bad.
Made the bed, lay in it, traitor.
You should feel like the biggest piece of hit on earth. Thank got hes protecting us and not you, you'd let whoever do whatever to us and just let it go.
I mean I don’t think this is real but if it is made a choice and you chose an abuser. That’s on you. I am glad your brother escaped. I noticed that none of you got therapy. I guess your dad doesn’t feel he should fix the messes he creates. He just says sorry and it’s now all better.
These comments are ridiculous. You were a child during this. If he didn’t want to repair his relationship or forgive your father (which is completely understandable) then that is his choice. As long as you weren’t pushing him to have a relationship with your father then you didn’t do anything wrong. You both went thru some traumatic years as children. Side note, your brother’s hatred towards your step mom and siblings might because your father only got his act together for them. At least that is how it can feel. I had deep resentment and at one point hatred for my father, he could treat everyone else very grand but for us he was abusive. It was like my father could hide his addiction to others and would be completely charismatic, but with us he could take the mask off and show us the real ugly side of him. It’s ok to grieve the relationship with your brother. However, you also need to understand why he cut you off. It probably was self preservation for him. He might have felt like he couldn’t trust you and that you would tell your father about what’s happening in his life. Have you seen a therapist about all of this? I would find one that has more experience with addiction and no-contact family relationships. I have no contact with my parents, they also don’t even bother to reach out, and it has been the best thing for me. I went thru a couple therapists that would encourage me to “forgive” and reach out, and that was not going to happen. I think your father needs to still take accountability for the pain he has caused.
From what I read, op did try to foster a relationship between brother and abusive father. Why is she inviting father to the going away party meant for brother? At the very least she tried to play normalcy and diminish the experience of brother who got the bigger dose of abuse. So given that brother was also a child when it initially happened, he saw op as supportive of his abusive father. And when they get older he still saw her always coming in package deal with father. She never did try to create seperate relationship with him. And the burden was on her to create such environment because she was the one who chose to forgive the abuse.
Your brother is traumatised, your father caused him to be traumatised, you stated that he had it worse than you and he obviously feels pushed away by you.
You also shouldn't have attempted to force a meeting between you, your father and him.
It's difficult to know what else to say to you, because hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it can't undo the past.
If you can find him just apologise like tomorrow is never going to happen and hope he is reciprocal.
The best you can do rn, is let him live his life and you yours. He made the choice to go non contact as that was what was best for him and his mental health. You can hope that one day he’ll reach out to you but honestly he probably wont. Go to therapy if you havent already
OP I’m sincerely curious- if you decide to answer comments- did you honestly think you were gonna win the side of the internet being an abuser sympathizer?
The entitlement that this post is sickening. I don’t feel bad for you at all he is protecting himself and his family for toxic people. Stop stalking his fb you are unworthy of seeing his family I hope he figures it out and blocks you.
I don’t think anyone here is an ass except for your dad being the abusive pos that he is. By the sounds of it your brother has followed the foot steps he hated so much by being abusive to your step family. It’s probably the best for everyone that he stays away.
It is okay that you forgave your father. Where you are at fault is that you didn’t respect his choice, and tried to force the issue. Go ahead and reach out. Apologize for not respecting his decision and validating his experience. Under no circumstances do you ever bring up your father again.
You don't enlist in the Navy SEALs. You enlist in the Navy. You have to apply to the SEAL program, once you are in the Navy. If selected to the program, you then have to complete numerous courses/training, including BUDS. A very small percentage of sailors that are accepted to the SEAL program ever actually pin on the Trident and become SEALs.
YTA! While it’s your choice to forgive your abuser, your brother chose not too. He also chose to stop speaking to someone who forgave his abuser.
Then you try to force a relationship on him. He’s done with his crappy family. Leave him alone. Stop stalking him.
YTA. Your brother is a mess, however, when someone abuses you and other people know it and still decide to associate them, that's trivializing their trauma. I can understand why he'd be upset. Your father may have apologized, but has he done anything to make amends and treat your brother well? Your brother has every right to not forgive him and not want to be around him and it sounds like you've tried to encourage a relationship between the two of them that your brother doesn't want. The trauma your brother experienced is likely a good part of why he's as messed up as he is.
Consider this, your dad didn't clean up his act until your stepmom and stepsibs came into the picture. How do you think that made him feel? His dad was willing to change once there were other kids in the house but he wasn't good enough for your dad to change his ways? That wouldn't be an unreasonable train of thought. Did your dad ever try to get help for him like putting him in counseling in addition to going to family therapy? Yes, I can understand why he got mad at you when you complained to him about your dad. it doesn't mean it was right for him to do, but it's understandable.
Lower your expectations. If you have his contact info, apologize for any attempts on your part to get him to do things with your dad around. If it hurts him to be around family, for whatever reason, it's ok for him to stay away. He needs help, but you're not the one he can accept it from. You need to respect his choices.
Seriously, could you, for once, just stop thinking about you and what you want and whing about how sad you are for not getting what you want at the expense of your brothers mental health and wellbeing.
From what it sounds like it is your older brother who shouldered the overwhelming majority of the abuse so he could shelter you, and yet here you are consistently ignoring his sacrifices for your wellbeing and demanding he sacrifices even more just so abusers get to feel better about themselves. You are an abuse enabler and abuser supporter.
Just be happy for your brother, it looks like he us having a good life with a stable family and good mental health now he no longer is subjected to your forgiveness shaming and you and your fathers entitlement to his consideration and time over his own personal needs and health.
Just stop, leave him alone he will reach out if he wants too and he feels like contact with you and your father is no longer detrimental to him
You know nothing about your brother. You don’t just enlist and become a navy seal at 18. You reach a high level of training where you can then apply for seal training, and most flunk out.
If you want to connect with your brother, then write a letter and apologize for ignoring his pain. Then completely let go of the idea of him suddenly choosing to forgive and “Forget” what your Dad did to you both. He can’t forgive or forget, that’s why he avoids you all. He got it worse than you did, and chose his future over one with you.
He’s a married father of three, and seems to be living life well without your families drama and interference.
Your Dad deserves no sympathy from anyone, shitty people don’t change even when they sober up.
if your brother is a SEAL then he has tremendous mental fortitude. And also you should change his name to a fake one here as being a SEAL is elite and specialized, you know?
Wait. Did you really invite your dad to his party? You’re complaining to your brother about your father (who is the reason he won’t speak to you)?? You have absolutely no respect for boundaries. It’s one thing if you want to forgive your dad for what he did to you. But your brother has the same right to not accept it. What has your dad done to make things right? Saying sorry isn’t always enough
The only reason he is an AH is for assaulting innocent people and verbally abusing your stepmother. Just because you were abused doesn’t mean you can take it out on innocent people. That being said hes gone and you need to let him be
YTA and so is EVERY SINGLE person on here that is trying to side with you. How yall dont understand this is fucking mind blowing. Your father and apparently you are narcissistic piles of shit that cant see past your own fucked up desires. I pray that youre the abused partner in every relationship you ever have. Maybe youll get some insight as to what it is you want your brother to be ok with💯🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽
YTA OP. Absolutely you're the asshole. You have no right to push your father into your brother's life. If your brother doesn't want your father in his life, then *you are to respect your brother's wishes*. I cut my father off a year or two ago and I'll be damned if one of my family members tries to push my deadbeat father back into my life. You're asking to get cut off from your brother.
A. Never do something like that again.
B. If your brother cut contact with you, then there's nothing you can do. You just have to accept it.
C. Accept that you fucked up.
You have your wonderful father, you have your step mom, you have your step siblings. Appreciate that.
You have nothing to offer your brother.
Leave him alone.
NTA. You did the right thing for yourself but your brother has to do what is right for himself. He does not have to forgive your dad. It is great that your dad got sober but it does not negate the damage that he did. I don’t think it would be bad to send him a message that you would like to see him but if you do that there should be no strings attached. You CANNOT bring your dad, suggest your dad come or even talk about your dad unless your brother asks you. You have got to respect your brothers feelings and hope he will respect yours and just leave it at that.
It's sad you and your brother experienced childhood trauma, him more so than you, from what you said. Every person reacts differently to it. You forgave your father and seem to have come through it all right. I'm sorry you don't have a relationship with your brother, but it's not your fault, you were a victim as much as he. I hope your brother has sought therapy and is in a better life situation now.
While I believe you deserve a gentle YTA here, you need to understand that your trauma and ability to forgive it and release it, is not the same trauma your brother experienced. He is not you, you and he did not have the same parent, even though he was abusive to you both. The way your father would have attacked his elder child as being a mirror of his own self hatred is not how you were attacked. You say yourself Roman received more physical and mental attacks from your father. How much did Roman protect you from so you didn’t get harmed worse, how often did he step in to protect you against your father’s attention? You may not remember the details, but for Roman, every punch, every whip of the belt, kick of the boot, viscous backhander and vile name calling is a scar on his soul, including ones he likely took to protect you. That you then forgave the man and in your brother’s eyes, ignored the pain and and humiliation Roman received to make your life easier, was a betrayal almost bigger then your father’s, you then condoned and became part of the abuse - your father he expected it from, he was a lying, useless drunk, but from you, his only person in the world?
Your brother went on to do probably the best thing he could ever have done, he sought discipline and a new family in the defence force. You made your peace and worked with the family you have, but that meant letting go of the one you had. Leave Roman alone; I know you were very young and didn’t have a choice, however he’s made it very clear there are no more ties to you in his mind, that part of his life is dead.
His children may reach out in years to come because, human nature and curiosity, even then, be very careful of not stepping in his incredibly clear boundaries. You had a brother. Mourn that memory as if he died.
Nta you shared a troubled childhood and had different experiences and different outcomes. That is not you fault, all these people calling you an ass for your actions as a child are just callous. You brother became an abuser and you did not.
YTA. He has every right to shun his abusive dad. Since you are trying to push him and your dad together, he is doing exactly the right thing. He is removing his abusive and toxic family out of his life.
You chose your path.
Deleted their profile because they got BURNED in the comment section.. probably thought they were going to have somebody sympathize with them but hell nah didn’t go that way
YTA and there must be some sort of mental disconnect for you to have all the pieces but can’t put the puzzle together. I love that he freed himself from his toxic family and started his own. “I can’t complain to him anymore so let me complain on Reddit” lol
YTA for framing your dad as a victim in the end. Poor dad is heartbroken? He reaps what's he sowed. He destroyed your brother, he doesn't get the right get feel bad that he is missing out on life milestones and parties, he doesn't get the joys of being a grandparent. Your father recovering is a positive but he can't erase the past, he has to respect the boundaries, forgiveness is earned, it's not a right. When he begged for forgiveness, was he truly sorry? Did he get therapy? Did he get you and your brother therapy? Or did he want a simple sorry to sweep it all away without putting in the work? Because he only got better for someone else and that says a lot towards his own kids.
You forgave, that was your choice but you pushed your brother, trying to piece back together what your father broke. You have to live with your choices. You chose to have your father in your life, your brother doesn't want that. Your brother doesn't see you as trustworthy, trying to force interactions so you got no contact too. All you can do is hope that he may reach out one day but you have to respect his boundaries, never involved your father unless your brother says so, never bring up your father unless your brother does, otherwise any future potential reconciliation won't happen.
Also creeping his social media is disrespecting his boundaries again. Don't pass on what you learned, don't give out any of those details about his family.
You're NTA for forgiving your Father. That's nobody's business but yours. You shouldn't have invited him to the Party, but that was at age 16.
Your Brother doesn't have to have his father in his life...obviously, but to disown you for doing so? That's his choice.
There are 2 AH in this story. It’s your father and you! You are especially a big AH and you know exactly why!
Your father must have beaten all common sense out of your skull that you could forgive him. There is no forgiveness for abusing a child who looks up to you for love, safety, and comfort.
There is a special place in HELL for parents who abuse their children. No amount of redemption will ever erase the TRAUMA your AH father inflicted on your brother.
My only wish is for your brother to get his anger and frustration out of your father in the most physical way a Navy Seal knows….
YTA
I have multiple siblings who have multiple parents. Some share DNA and some don’t
What we all agree on is we detest the other parent. If I saw my sister’s father and I could legally hit him with my car, I’d be there with balloons.
She feels exactly the same about my father
So we don’t talk about. If a situation is unavoidable, like a wedding or death, we will be polite FOR each other.
If you loved your brother and you were not so selfish you would be able to see that
YTA. Your experience was quite different than Roman’s. He is justified in not wanting contact with his childhood tormentor. It doesn’t matter if he changed. Childhood trauma is not erased simply bc someone changed their ways. What’s sad though is it seems that he has turned to alcohol and may be doing the same things that were done to him. The cycle of abuse is far reaching and is hard to break. Let your brother have some peace so stop trying to force him to make up with his abuser. He has no obligation to do that.
NAH look I get it. But no one is entitled to forgiveness. If you forgave him and he did better good for you. Your brother doesn't have to. It'd be nice if you could agree to disagree and still have something. But life doesn't work that way. You were both kids who healed differently and went different directions. No one here is a ass.
Your brother does not have to forgive either of y’all and you need to accept that. You trying to force your father, his abuser, into his life was incredibly uncalled.
You’re allowed to forgive those who have wronged you, but you cannot force others. In additional, you bitched about your brother to the man who made his life hell. That alone would be grounds for disownment.
It sounds like he moved on, and good for him.
YTA. You have the right to have whatever relationship you want with your father but you can't expect someone who suffered abuse to continue a relationship with someone who associates with their abuser. You don't feel strongly enough about what happened to your brother to keep strong boundaries with your dad. Unless you do some soul searching and change your priorities the relationship with your brother probably isn't salvageable but I hope you will talk this over with a therapist if you can, try to see things from your brother's perspective, and maybe things can be mended between you two someday.
ESH including all the commenters telling a person they suck for forgiving their parent WHEN THEY WERE A CHILD. Child. Children want things to be right. Some people chose to forgive. Some people don't. Neither are wrong here. The father stopped abusing the kids, apparently. Doesn't make it right. Choosing not to live in conflict for a decade / rest of their life by recognizing change and forgiving is a choice and not a terrible one.
A couple years difference between the siblings and the older brother getting the worst of it, makes a big difference in the vast range of normal responses.
It's great the brother was able to turn his life around.
And it can take people decades to be in the place to talk. Or they can decide its better left behind.
You are not an AH, but you certainly had no place trying to push your brother to forgive your Dad and have a relationship with him. You saw what a relationship with Dad did to him. He pushed away your stepmother and stepsisters because Dad was able to change for their sakes but not yours and his. He changed for people he never hurt or loved when he was a raging alcoholic! Your brother had a lot of anger and resentment in him. The name calling and the hair pulling and such was a way to show them a portion of what you and he went through. That didn’t change Dads life. In your brother’s eyes your dad was never punished for what he did to y’all. He got this great woman, 2 step daughters and he foolish forgiveness of his little sister who saw what he went through as well as going through her own crap with Dad. He didn’t hurt you because he wouldn’t do anything to hurt you personally as you had bee hurt enough and he just cut you out of his life instead of speaking to you, and possibly hurting you verbally. On one side he was protective you from his anger while on the other he was angry at you for forgetting what you both suffered at the hands of Dad! Please reach out to him explain that you understand why he was so angry about our forgiving Dad. Tell him you absolutely did not mean to downplay Dads actions. However tell him did what you did to survive . While you will never forget any of it, that you forgave Dad for your own sake. Just remember he may not be ready to completely accept your reasoning, or forgive your “betrayal” (As it seemed to him!) It may take time but realize Dad is off the table for discussion unless your brother brings him m up. And do not defend Dad to your brother.
Uh. Yeah. As someone who took the brunt of fists as a kid, YTA and also F YOU for forcing your dad onto your brother. How fing dare you. You knew what happened, you saw what happened, and you think that just because your dad claims to be sorry it should somehow just BE OKAY? F YOU, asshole.
This is heavy. You can forgive your abuser, but your brother doesn't have to. It's hurtful to know his own sibling had a party for him and then invited his abuser. He's probably not mad at you for forgiving your abuser. He's mad that you keep trying to force a relationship with them.
My guess is your brother is being as respectful towards you as he possibly can by staying NC. He doesn't want to see his abuser. He doesn't want to talk to or about his abuser. He doesn't want to be in the vicinity of his abuser. And he surely doesn't want to party with his abuser. You can't fix it, so stop trying to.
No one just enlists and joins the Navy Seals.
If this story is real, you’re the biggest asshole that ever walked the earth. Forgive dad all you want, but your brother was damaged mentally and sounds deep. I wouldn’t get talk to you, either.
I had an older brother and three older sisters. I was the youngest. My brother was the oldest and I shared a room with him. He hated me, he would hold a pillow over my head until I would quit struggling and then some,then he would pull it off and start laughing. This would get my dad up and punish us both using a belt sometimes. This was just the beginning of years of his physical and mental abuse towards me. My parents especially my dad wanted me to make amends and I would try but I always got bullied or burned by him again.
So YTA for trying to bring them back together. He joined the Navy he’s in the SEALS he has his military family and Christina and his children. I say he’s adjusted quite well.
You INVITED his abuser to the PARTY and you wonder why he didn't show? JFC. YTA.
I had to re-read that part. Like WTF!?! What kind of deluded idiot does that! Or maybe she's not completely stupid. Maybe she's hooked on conflict and drama? She couldn't have expected the party to end in anything but violence, surely?
Just the way they speak about it is as if they're refusing to smell the turd in the air n still wondering why the brother got a gas mask on
YTA for pushing your father into your brothers life. Why are you complaining about your dad to him? Why the HELL would you invite your dad to the going away party? You show consistently that you care more about your dad than your brother so good for him he decided to not show up and waste anymore of his time. Major YTA, and congratulations on losing a great brother for a subpar and abusive father. The reason your brother left is because he’s realized you display the same abusive tendencies as your father. You’re truly your father’s daughter. You got what you wanted! Huzzah 🙌🏻
Exactly. OP even stated that his brother had it worse than him? Why even complain to him when he’s fully aware his brother does not want to hear it
What’s crazy is OP also doesn’t make the connection that their dad couldn’t clean up his act or not be abusive for them. He only did it because of Anna and her kids. Like Roman probably still has the feeling of not being enough or loved by dad, because he wasn’t worth dad changing. If Anna didn’t come along, what does OP believe would have happened? Pretty sure the abuse would have continued. OP, it was your decision to forgive your dad. You have NO right to try and force your brother to reconcile or engage in any positive way with your dad. You should have respected his decision. You knew your brother didn’t want to talk about your dad or the trauma he caused, but you’d complain as if he’d care. You invited someone he wanted no contact to his goodbye party and are upset he didn’t show. Why would he? You don’t respect his boundaries. YTA.
This perspective is absolutely valid, but I feel like everyone is missing the ages. OP was 10 when they forgave dad. TEN. 16 at the time of the going away party. As an adult, OP needs to let it go, but let’s not pretend a 10-year-old child is an AH for forgiving their father.
Never said there were an AH for forgiving dad. I said that was their choice. The AH part comes in with trying to force interactions or a relationship between Roman and dad.
When? OP has not seen or talked to the brother since they were 16 years old! They go away party happened while OP was a child living under their father’s roof. Are you trying to say that a child should have known better?
The 16 year OP definitely knew Roman wanted nothing to do with their dad. He had been clear about that many times. OP should not have tried to host a going away party that included their dad. The biggest joke was dad being hurt that Roman didn’t show up.
People say a 16 year old can't possibly know what they're doing because they're minors. Except when it's convenient for the discussion. I don't really know your particular opinion on the subject. I do lean in thinking they understand what they're doing but in some cases they hope it will work out.
Yes cause how could any kid know that person a doesn't like person b so let's not invite person b to a's party. I forget you are completely brain dead til you hit 18
Their father with whom the alternative to a "friendly" relationship might be a beating. I really feel for Roman; he did what he could and he can't take any more, and I hope he leads a good life with loving people. But OOP sounds like a classic fawner. As a child, they couldn't fight or flee, so they went with trying to ingratiate themselves as a safety mechanism. People who haven't had their entire relationship to people in positions of power ground ruthlessly into them at an early age really don't get how automatic some of these responses are, or how much time, effort, and frankly luck it takes to realize the problem, confront it, and work on it. It is just as much an ingrained form of damage as kids who lash out, run away, or fall into deep depressions. OOP is almost certainly perpetuating a behavior that began in response to trauma, and while that doesn't mean Roman needs to accept it or come to terms with it, it's ignorant and heartless not to acknowledge the fear and damage underpinning this sort of fear-based "forgiveness." What other choice did an abused 10 year old have?
Also in a lot of these cases the oldest child gets it the worst because they actively protect the younger siblings. His brother probably took a lot to spare him.
Damn, OP must have edited the post because I don't see ANY of what you just mentioned. Completely changes the light I see both OP and her brother in.
OP edited the party portion a bit. I’m not sure what else they changed though. The party portion makes it less obvious the abusive dad was there bc they invited him. But still pretty much the same.
Yeah, she invited the Dad to the Party. That was "pushing your father into your brother's life." Seems like the Brother didn't even know about that. I don't see the OP as TA because she forgave her Father. Is it healthier to just stay angry and forever hold a grudge? It's each sibling right to do as they see fit. The Brother didn't forgive him...and she did. No, she's not TA for forging her Father. The Brother isn't TA for NOT forgiving him. The Father was the only AH.
OP had been pushing for her brother to accept their father back. That’s not no, but HELL NO. Also, the brother has the right to say 🖕🏾his dad and the sis too. Put yourself in the brother’s shoes and then tell us how you feel. Yeah, OP and the shitty father are both AH
I see it all still, the going away party etc
I would definitely go no contact ASAP, too.
You made choices. They have consequences. "...worse he has three kids" Worse? Your dad is heartbroken? What?
The "my dad is heartbroken" bit left me gobsmacked. Roman got the brunt of the abuse but OP is all "oh, boo hoo, our poor dad, he's so sad the child he tormented doesn't want to see him".
I know. It's so deluded and manipulative.
When I went no contact with my father and sisters this is how everyone came at me too. Fuck them all. Poor op is stuck in the cult of a narcicist
I'm wondering if she's been brainwashed by her father? Her wording is very suspicious and more than a little concerning Good for her brother for staying away from her vile manipulation and emotional abuse to her brother.
More than likely her behavior is trauma induced. The abused person often changes their behavior to prevent further abuse and convinces themselves it couldn’t have been that bad. Because look how he treats stepmom and step sibling. Not a therapist, just a teacher for 29 years that has had to work with abused kids before. (Yes CPS was involved)
Possibly. That's for her and a therapist but it won't change the situation with the brother.
She needs ALL the therapy. I don’t absolve/forgive her for her behavior. I know her brother doesn’t. But it is interesting to figure out the motive. If, by chance, she reads down through the comments it might motivate her to reevaluate her actions and seek help.
YTA You say Roman received the brunt of the abuse. Do you not realise that he was likely protecting you? He took most of it so that you wouldn't have to? And in response, you forgave his abuser, complained to him about his abuser, and tried to force him to spend time with his abuser by springing a going away party on him. You aren't entitled to another moment of his time, and you certainly aren't entitled to meet his children. By siding with a man who was violent towards a child, you have proved to him that you are dangerous. He would never be able to trust you around his children, and for that alone, he will never be around you again. You made choices. And these are the consequences. Get over it.
Get over it and get over yourself, YTA OP
This completely spelled it out!
YTA. Your dad was an abusive POS. You chose to forgive the abusive POS. That choice has a consequence. The consequence is that your brother saw what he meant to you which is less than the abusive POS. He decided to show you what you meant to him in turn which is nothing. You made your bed so lie in it. If I was your brother I wouldn't let you meet my kids either because you forgave and have a relationship with someone who regularly abused children. That makes you a bad person who I wouldn't leave alone with children. Your stepmother is also a horrible person, why would you marry and leave your children around someone who abused his own children. Your dad should be in prison. I hope your brother has an amazing life. I hope karma gets you.
Yeah, bro was older so got and remembers more and sadly the behaviors he showed, which OP uses to paint him in a bad light.... Were taught to him as a child, by his dad. Hopefully the service will help keep him on the right track, and he can keep this toxic family in his rear view mirror
Yta. Then... Carry on a bit more and you're still the TA.
YTA for choosing the abuser over the victim. if i was in your brother's shoes i would disown you as well.
YTA. As someone who was physically abused to the point of being removed from the home I would do exactly what Roman did. I wouldn’t speak to any of my sisters who were giving updates on my kids to my abuser they would be cut off too. Just because they forgave doesn’t mean I have to. Btw Roman could forgive him and never speak to him again. It’s called protecting your peace.
YTA. JFC, are you ever the AH. Your actions are adding to the original abuse your brother suffered. Leave him the hell alone.
My sister always protected me from our abusive father. She is my hero, and I will always be there for her. YTA
I wish my younger sisters had the same energy…
YTA You abandoned your brother for the man that broke his mind and ability to function, then tried to guilt trip him for being upset about it. Dude, you're a shit brother. You just proved that when the cards are down you won't have his back. Not only that, you'll try to force him to be around people who hurt him. You're selfish and purely concerned with your weird "daddy love me" fantasy from a violent nutcase than supporting your own brother.
Your brother is allowed to go NC with his abusive dad, and anyone who supports his abusive dad. You knew that’s where he was at… why are you surprised? You made your choice and this is the very predictable result. Btw I want you to know that from his perspective, you’re basically saying “hey bro, I’m totally OK with everything dad did to you.” So…. Why would he want to talk to you?
YTA you weren’t robbed of having a close sibling bond you chose one bond over the other. You said it yourself your brother got the worst of the abuse so why on earth would you expect him to be okay with someone who forgave his abuser? Granted you were also abused but you chose to forgive him your bother hasnt so you complaining over “ normal teenage things” about his abuser to him was just another smack in the face. Just because someone changes it doesnt make up for all the wrong doings in the past. Whats even worse is he didnt change on his own he changed for a women and her daughters not for his own kids. This whole post is about you and your feelings why cant you see that you aren’t the victim here. Actions have consequences… Your brother chose no contact because contact with you means his abuser has access to him and his family.
YTA - I hope Roman is happy as hell with a loving wife and children
YTA. Why did you keep forcing your father into your brother's life ? You know that Roman got worse treatment than you did from your father. Have you ever respected that? Leave your brother alone. You and your father have caused enough damage.
Yes YTA. You should go to therapy to deal with the trauma from the abuse you survived as a kid and seriously learn about what that means and what it does to people. Then you can understand what it did to your brother (and you) and the betrayal your brother felt and went through when you forgave his abuser. I have a feeling that when you start dealing with your childhood, you'll realise that your dad didn't become a paragon when he stopped drinking, his behaviour just got subtler. Which is obvious because he never understood or accepted that the child he beat and abused for 10 years wouldn't forgive him on his timeline and constantly forced contact including through others (you). You were a little kid who wanted a daddy, we understand that. But you're not a little kid anymore. Actions have consequences and you need to deal with yours. Start with serious therapy and go from there.
Lol, from the way you describe it you threw him a surprise party and invited his abuser 🫠 He shouldn’t have you in his life until you learn some sense.
Thank god he got away from you all.
Your brother is keeping himself, his wife and his children away from his abuser and the abusers enablers. Stop being so entitled and woe is me. You cannot expect your brother to want anything to do with your Father no matter how much he's "cleaned up his act" it's irrelevant. No one is entitled to forgiveness
Story seemed plausible until “enlisted in navy seal.” That is not how you join the seals.
To be fair, op doesn’t know much of brothers life anymore. Details might have been speculated or filled in.
It may be that OP doesn't understand how the Navy works.
I definitely don't. Not the Navy, but this guy from the air force had a booth at my school and I asked if he flew any planes/jets. Apparently only like 3% of people in the air force fly. Didn't plan on joining, but that definitely squashed any possibility. I wanted to fly🙁
I would take whatever a family member has to say about the military with a grain of salt honestly. I know people who have been in almost 20 years and their families couldn't give you an accurate description of what they do, how they did it etc. This is not a one off either and not for a lack of trying.
THANK YOU! First thing I picked up. You enlist in the Navy, you are chosen to attempt to become a SEAL. And then there's something like a 90% washout rate. SEAL training is some of the hardest in the world. The SEALs do not play.
You can attempt to become a SEAL but not before you've been in an appropriate rate (job) for a few years, and have reached the rank of E-5.
Title should be changed why can't OP understand he did every thing wrong that he could have done to a victim of abuse and wonders why. Life isn't fast n furious, you don't get to say family and move on.
Take it from someone who went through this. My dad molested me for 10 years; he told me it was my fault, I started it, and worse I believed him. I defended him and myself for years. Cut off my siblings who tried to tell me he was manipulating me. I married right away and let my dad live with me, even though he did this to me. He also was having affairs and left my mom destitute. I still took his side. It was until I was in my 30s and daughter (12 at the time) told me she knew what happened and the light bulb went off in my head and I was like “what the hell am I doing?” I cut my dad off the next day and went to therapy. And it’s been 10 years since I have talked to him. I’ve had horrible relationships with my siblings (3 brothers and 1 sister). It wasn’t until my mom passed away in 2022 that all of siblings were together again. And we were old enough to speak about all the trauma we experienced and we’ve been slowly working things out. All of this to say, you can never force a victim to be around their abuser. Maybe your dad has changed. Maybe he hasn’t. You know that your brother’s experience was worse. He probably feels betrayed because you forgave your father, when he most likely took on more to save you. You are allowed to have your own relationship with him and forgive your dad, but that means you don’t get to have a relationship with your brother. I have one brother who still talks to my dad and even though he and I talk, we barely do. I don’t want my dad knowing anything about me. I don’t take pictures with him because I know he posts to social, and I don’t want him seeing me and my family. He lost that right. Studies show people who have been abused by parents don’t really understand until their brains have fully developed. So around late 20s/early 30s before they fully understand their abuse. I wish you lots of love and healing ❤️🩹
Why would you invite his abuser to his party? YTA
YTA. And I agree that you are the biggest piece of shit on earth. What part of your brother took the worst of the abuse to protect you do you not understand? You spit in his face when you chose the abuser over your brother. Leave him & his family ALONE.
So your dad was a despicable abuser and you were the favourite. He only stopped being abusive (and I imagine only the physical abuse stopped) once he moved some random woman and her kids in; so again the child(ren) he damaged came last. You forgave your dad. As the child who was targeted less. Your brother made a life for himself. He cleaned up his act (yeah those bad habits, that bad crowd? You can thank your dad for that too) and got married and has children and thank god he will never have them around his abuser or the one who minimized the abuse. That’s you by the way. You just sound so condescending and willfully ignorant. We threw him a party and he didn’t even show!!! Come on. Stop being a victim.
you picked a side and it wasn't your brother's side
YTA. Roman took a bunch of beatings so you wouldn't have to. He protected you from the worst of it. He protected you so well, you ended up being less damaged to the extent you went and forgave your dad for all the damage he did to Roman. You did this because you wanted to "look good" and "be the forgiving type." Well, that's EASY for you to do since you had him pay the price for you. Those who have others pay the price never understand how much pain the other person is in. You had the easy life, you took the easy way out because everything was easy for you. Did you for once EVER think about how much he suffered and how much anger he still has towards your dad? No. You are a fool, and never did because you had it easy. So easy you forgave your dad, and then expected the scapegoat to do the same. Nothing you can do now will ever make up for that betrayal. In fact, you forgiving your dad is such a huge insult to him, it's no wonder he can't even stand to look at you. All you're demonstrating to the internet is how much of a narcissist you are making it all about you, when he's the one who was beaten badly by your abusive dad. The physically abusive dad who taught you all about how to abuse your brother. He at least is doing the right thing keeping his family away from your emotional abuse and your physically abusive dad. No parent wants their vulnerable children around an emotionally abusive aunt who basically condones abuse. He's only protecting them from you. You are in no way entitled to any relationship with them. As someone who is familiar with the military, you should know those good folk (especially marines) do not look kindly upon domestic violence abusers. Your dad should be in jail. Nothing will ever make up for the pain your brother suffered. You are right about one thing though. You're the biggest shit on earth.
>You're the biggest shit on earth. Oh yeah, OP is the smelliest scummiest sh*t there is. His entitlement is grossing me out.
Womp womp
As their sibling, you should be proud your brother is protecting his wife and kids. YTA.
YTA, big time. This one hits a little close to home and I’m totally siding with your brother. I as well had a very abusive father who cheated on my mom and was abusive to her and hit me and my two younger sisters. I used to always take the blame for my sisters on everything just so I could get the beating instead of them. He left the house when I was 17 and finally big enough to defend myself and my mother and sisters. The SOB tried to turn it on me against all his friends and side of the family. I discovered all his double life of cheating and he blamed my mother and was about to hit her when I hit him back. This was 10 years ago. I had to go through college and work at the same time to provide for my sisters and mother (thankfully we all got full ride scholarships at the best college in our country so that was covered). So all in all, I perfectly understand your brother because I would feel the same if my sisters would forgive and start talking to my father after all that happened.
It seems some people here do not realize that you forgave him as a child. You were ten. YTA for ever trying to change your brother’s mind about your dad. But I can see why a ten year old kid would forgive his dad.
You do realize your betrayal is all the worse because he took the brunt of your dad's abuse to protect you, right? You made your choice; now leave him alone and live with it. YTA.
YTA- he doesn’t have to forgive your dad and he has a right not to be near you at all.
It may also bother Roman that your father never apologized or tried to make amends (unless you left that out). Begging for forgiveness and "cleaning up his act" for his new family doesn't mean jack if he hasn't recognized the enormous hurt and trauma he caused you and Roman. I wonder if your dad want(ed) to be forgiven just to feel better about himself and impress his new family. It is absolutely not your place to try to shove your father back in your brother's life or try to make him feel bad for going no contact with an abuser, even if the abuse is (supposedly) in the past. Definitely YTA for not respecting his personal choices. And before anyone says anything about Roman's behavior to his half-siblings and their mother, yes, he's TA in that regard but he's still entitled to draw boundaries and decide on what, if any, kind of relationship to have with his father.
YTA. He’s perfectly right to not allow someone who abused him in his life. You’ve aligned yourself with his abuser. You also complain to HIS ABUSER that he isn’t nice to you? You stalk him which in and of itself is abusive. You’ve only yourself to blame and why would you invite HIS ABUSER to his going away party? It shows you’re a disrespectful self centered overcooked ravioli.
I certainly wouldn’t trust you or your dad around my children
Good on your brother for leaving that hell, with no help, to become a better man.
Abuse leave lasting scars, you admitted he had it worse. You then sided with your father which was most likely seen as another betrayal from someone he trusted. You messed up, and this may be something that you can never recover from.
Sometimes the only way to survive trauma like that is to completely remove yourself from that situation. You don’t know how bad it was for him. Leave him be.
You invited his abuser to the party. You knew he hadn’t forgiven him. You knew he wanted nothing to do with him. And you don’t see the problem? It’s all fine and good that you forgave him. It doesn’t mean he has to. YTA.
We are done accepting, excusing and associating with abusers. Especially our abusers. When someone hurts someone you love you don’t get both people in your life. You get one. And you chose the abuser. YTA. Leave your brother alone.
YTA. Your dad all of a sudden, deciding to be a better person doesn’t change your brother’s memories. It doesn’t change the trauma. It doesn’t change the pain and you forgiving him. Says your shit doesn’t matter your trauma doesn’t matter you don’t matter. You should get over it. You’re worse than your father.
YTA Those who enable abusers are, themselves, abusers.
You forgave your brother's abuser. You went on the side of your brother's abuser and tried to push a relationship on hom. What did you expect?
She expected a very happy reunion and brother forgiving his abuser cause of some sappy story. Some people are like hollow sticks. You just break them open and shake the shit out of them until the light bulb comes on.
This is hard because it sounds like you forgave your dad as a child, when you were reliant on your dad and easily manipulated. But I do think YTA. Your brother took the brunt of your dad’s abuse. Do you even really know how bad it was? Guy became a Seal so no-one could hurt him again. If you want a relationship with your brother, you will need to ask him. You will need to make the effort. You will need to apologise. Do not include your father unless your brother specifically asks. I would imagine it’s very hard for your brother, you forgave someone who hurt him really badly, and he was probably very lonely throughout his childhood because of it. I don’t think I’d want to re-establish contact with you tbh.
You chose the abuser. Sorry that has consequences. Leave your brother alone.
Not for forgiving your father- that’s your right and your right alone. But you can’t try to force Roman to do so and you can’t expect him to be okay with it. Let him go and accept that he will never be your brother. And for trying to force a relationship that he obviously did not want, YTA.
This is all your fault. Your dad abused you both, him worse. And yet you forgave him??? No wonder he went no contact with all of you. You're easily manipulated and the "dad" is one bad day away from beating his new family.
OP, LEAVE HIM ALONE!! that’s what you could to to amend your actions
I wouldn't talk to you either. The dude got to be a piece of shit and then hit the reset button. He got a new wife and kid to start over.
Yta. He was abused. He owes none of you a thing
He stood his ground and never forgave his abuser. Fuck your dad. Your brother put up with his shit and moved on with his life. You made the choice to sympathize with your own abuser and keep him in your life. He is not going to overlook this "changed man" bullshit. He's still the same person. The same person who you see now is still the same person that did horrible things. You chose your abuser over your brother, and you get the consequences you deserve.
Oh gosh an abuse victim used alcohol to try and deal with his childhood trauma, that’s actually normal.
He didn’t trust your dad, who had abused him. You forgave your dad and promptly started trying to force your brother to spend time with your dad. You proved to your brother that he couldn’t trust you. Ask yourself: if you did see your brother's kids, how long before you started trying to introduce them to your dad? That's why you will never have a relationship with your brother, because you can't accept that you hurt him further.
>how long before you started trying to introduce them to your dad? Cue OP's 'but he really has changed' BS
YTA because you still don’t fully grasp the situation. Your father abused you both but you admit your brother got the worse of it. As the older sibling- he was probably protecting you. You say dad got better when he remarried. No mention of therapy or treatment that would have worked to heal not only his relationship you both, but help your brother heal from the abuse. You say your brother acted out, was rude and cruel to SM & stepsiblings, again, no mention of your brother getting support or treatment to deal with his abuse just an indictment of his behavior. Behavior that is pretty typical of kids that are abused btw. Also you say dad was better- do you know that to be true in your brothers case? Because brother’s experiences & yours would be vastly different. And a typical behavior of abusers is to isolate the victim from all support. Like his brother. & surrounding them with people who support the abuser, like sm and step siblings. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to discover the abuse of your brother continued but perhaps in a more insidious way- like making him the family scapegoat. No wonder he bailed the moment he was able. And of course he went NC with all of you- because you support his abuser. But also, what would happen if he allowed you in his life? You’ve already proven you would invite his abuser to a party in his honor- would you also invite his abuser around his kids? Provide updates to the abuser on his family? You’ve proven to your brother that you cannot be trusted. You are not safe. Stop cyberstalking this man and let him live his life and hopefully enjoy the peace he has found, away from abusers and their enablers
You don’t enlist for the navy seals, that’s BS. His friend Christina? 3 kids at 18? This whole post sounds fishy.
I can't come to a conclusion as to whether you're the AH or not. You have every right to forgive your father, but he has every right not to. Trying to push your choice on him is not your place. However, you were still a kid at the time, so you had already set on always supporting your dad, when he did a 180. This is a tough one for me. I do think it's time to accept the fact that you have to let him go, because he already has.
YTA for trying to push a relationship with your abusive father on him when you even explain here that he was treated worse than you were. He has every right to be NC with both your father and you. Your dad changing is good but that doesn’t change the trauma your brother went through. He owes neither of you a damn thing.
YTA get rid of contact of your father it doesn’t deserve forgiveness I hope the brother doesn’t forgive you cause what kind of sister who forgives there abusive father who hurt their siblings if you was roman you would probably never forgive your father so give a reason why should he other than he has change for the better speech
YTA. Of course he didn’t want to forgive that abusive POS and the only reason you did is because your brother was the one that got most of it and you got it easy. So what if he cleaned up his act, does that remove the abuse that Roman had to endure? Does it heal his trauma? Fuck no, it didn’t and it won’t. You even choose to complain about his abuser, that you had forgiven for the abuse, to him! The audacity of that is astounding. I completely understand that he didn’t want to come to your party. He is better off without being around his abuser and people that isn’t understanding of his trauma. You made a choice and now you have to live with that. I hope Roman is happy and gets all the love and support he clearly didn’t get at home.
You literally forgave his abuser of course he wants nothing to do with you go be happy with your abusive dad there are some things that is unforgivable and child abuse is one of them YTA
OP, forgiving someone isn't the problem. You tried to push and keep your dad in your brother's life when your brother didn't want that. He isn't ready to forgive. You should have respected that. If you had, you would have still had your brother in your life. Leave him alone. Stop stalking his social media. Yta
OP gets told YTA OP attempts to argue with a few people but gets downvoted into oblivion OP is then MIA Classic.
When I found out that my dad's step dad abused my dad and his siblings and my nanna allowed it to happen, I never spoke to them again. I would cross the street when I saw them and even when she was dying and my auntie said to me don't you think you should go see your nanna now she is dying I simply said no and left it at that He doesn't have to have you in his life and he doesn't have to tell you anything about his life either If it was me and my sister had forgiven the man who abused me I would see it as a massive betrayal and I wouldn't want anything to do with you either
YTA since you obviously expected your brother to forgive your abusive father and cannot understand why he does not and will not.
You have got to be kidding. Are you dense or just self centered? Complaining about your dad that you forgave to the person who had no interest in them? YTA hard.
YTA *You* chose to forgive your father. Your brother obviously did not. You do not get to push your father back into your brother's life. Your brother is not required to forgive your father & if you continue to associate with him then your brother is allowed to cut contact with you, too.
YTA. Fuck you. You deserve to be miserable & alone.
YTA. You’re not entitled to a relationship with your brother. Your brother has a boundary and he’s executed it perfectly. His boundary is that he doesn’t want a relationship with his abusive father. Just because your father has “changed” doesn’t mean his victims have to forgive him. The issue here isn’t that you forgave the abusive AH. It’s that you can’t accept the fact that your brother isn’t willing to do the same. No one gives a shit if your dad was heartbroken. He’s not a victim here. The fact that you’re acting like he is one is just disgusting. Stop stalking your brother and get over it. You made your choices. Your brother respected your choices. The least you do is respect his choices. Also, the two of you were not “really young” when this stuff happened. You were 10 and 12 ffs.
OP YTA so glaringly neon flashing sign. Brother got the worst of it, probably to protect your ass. And what do you do, forgive the abuser and then attempt to force your abused brother to do the same. If I knew who your brother was, I'd immediately let him know you've been stalking him and know about his kids, and have been informing his abuser about him. Hell, I'd even help him block your ability to find him. I never get so pissed off than we when people think it's ok to gloss over abuse or force forgiveness. Who the fuck cares if your dad is heartbroken? He was a POS to you and your brother. You want to forgive what he did, good for you. But you get to deal with the destruction of the relationship with your older brother. You want to be on your father's side, then you get to deal with the consequences of never knowing your brother's family. Don't whine and vent about poor you, you chose this. You chose to complain about your dad to the person who hurt him badly trying to keep you safer. I can't even believe what your brother must have been feeling when the one he was trying to protect, the one he got hurt worse to keep safe...turned around and set up camp in team dad. You don't deserve a relationship with your brother, his wife, his kids, or his friends. Not a one. You chose your side, suck it up. The only unfortunate thing is you were selfish enough not to consider the trauma and damage your brother had to go through and he had to witness it.
YTA. Definitely. You chose to seek the love of your abusive father over that of your older brother who potentially stood between the two of you. And now you don’t understand his lack of forgiveness??? From his perspective you have completely betrayed him. Gross. 🤢 🤮
Your brother had 2 more years of abuse than you did and you stated his abuse was worse . I wonder if he shielded you as many older siblings do. You big time F’d up when you complained to him about your dad. I seriously doubt he will forgive you. Get some therapy and figure out why your brother is no contact. You may not ever have a relationship with him, but it might stop you from F’ing up any future relationships.
Well, well, welll, if it's not the consequences of your own actions! You made a choice, pal, now be an adult and face the consequences. You don't deserve his company, so now you don't have it. YTA
YTA. Glad Roman got away. Do him one kindness and don’t reach out. He remembers and doesn’t need you to remind him.
Your dad is scum, and solely for forgiving the bastard, you're not a whole lot better. How on earth can you only see your point of view and not your brothers?! He not only was victim to the worst of his abuse, but now you're trying to get his abuser back in his life?? Fuck you and your dad. and fuck anne for marrying him
I went through something similar w/ my younger sister... It's a long story, but it's crazy how different your childhood experiences can be when you're two years older than someone else. It can shape your early childhood, which in turn shapes how you experience your older childhood. My younger sister ended up w/ a much closer relationship w/ my emotionally abusive step-mother... For a long time it just felt like it was those 3 against me. I couldn't confide in her b/c she would just tell my parents because the three of them were friends and I felt like the outcast. Eventually I moved out and I didn't go no-contact on purpose, I just felt like I had escaped that living situation and had no desire to go back to it, and no desire to maintain a real relationship. I wasn't angry at anyone at that point, I had just moved on. Now, years later, we're all friendly, but I barely talk to any of them. I just rarely feel the desire to. My sister still does the same thing; If I tell her something personal it makes it to my parents, who I might not want to hear about things like that. So I just don't talk to her about stuff I don't want my parents in on... I just pretend she has me on speakerphone in a room with them. I'd let them know if I was getting married but I don't think they'd be part of that. You're not the asshole for having a different early childhood experience than your brother did. You're not the asshole for approaching your later childhood differently and forgiving your dad. I suspect your brother's kind of in the same boat as me, though, and just doesn't feel any draw to go back to that family situation that just didn't work for him, that didn't really include him in the same way as everyone else. You were on Team Parents and he was on Team Him. Idk how old you or him are, but over time maybe you can approach him to form some sort of relationship. Just know that he'll be more likely to form any kind of a relationship w/ YOU, than with your family through you. He's not looking for a gateway back to your dad and stepfamily. Sounds like he needs therapy to get over that time in his life, though, and to put those childhood grudges behind him.
YTA. I know you meant well but you can’t push people to feel the same way you do. You forgave your father, but he is not ready to do that. What you did probably feels like a betrayal to him. It was the 2 of you against him, then you “made up with the enemy”. Being older, probably saved you a lot of times, looking out for you.
INFO: was your dad going to be at his party? Because that’s fucked up. Your dad isn’t entitled or earned any forgiveness from him. He was abused by your father. Abused.
>I feel like the biggest shit on earth You are. He should never contact you again.
Why the hell was your father invited to the party? Would on earth made you think that was a good decision? You wonder why brother didn't show up?
You made your choice. YTA.
“My brother had it worse than me” You have answered your own question right there. Just because YOU forgave your father, doesn’t mean your brother should, and he definitely doesn’t need to have your father force fed to him. Choices have consequences, good and bad; you chose to forgive your father and have him in your life. Doing so cost you a relationship with your brother. You have to live with that. Time will tell if it was all worth it. YTA
Sorry but you fucked around and found out. NOBODY wants to keep their abusers in their life. No matter how much they have “changed “. Btw, YTA, and your father is the biggest,shittiest AH if all.
It's amazing that this horribly abused child who carried the emotional scars with him when he was forced to live with abuser throughout he teen years enlisted, made it into the SEALS which is incredibly challenging, married, and had a family of his own. Roman must be made of steal. I don't care how freaking heartbroken the man who abused him until he was 12 was when Roman didn't show at a party thrown for him by his former abuser and the family that pushed him to forgive what he believed was unforgivable. I would suggest that should you decide to communicate with Roman again, that all there should be is an apology that you didn't appreciate his pain and that you selfishly wanted everyone to get along and be all happy happy happy when obviously that was impossible for him, and that you didn't realize until recently how disloyal you were to push him in that direction and not to see why and support him in not forgiving the man who abused him. Tell him that you admire the outstanding things he's accomplished in his life, and that it breaks your heart that you can't know him or his family. That's it. Then see what happens. Given that you were very young when a lot of this was going on, maybe he's forgive you and want to know you. Or maybe he won't. But if he does, not one damn word about your father. Not one damn word about wishing he'd forgive your father. Not one damn word about your father's feelings. And not one excuse from you. Just say you're sorry. Then listen. YTA
So…. I don’t think you are the ah. You where a kid just trying to survive. You chose to forgive and that’s ok. However you have to accept that he isn’t ready to forgive. He may never forgive and that’s ok too. It sucks. I have an estranged sibling (tho she was my abuser). It’s hard. Some days it gets you down. However you have to understand from his point he was betrayed by two people who should have been loving (not that you where not loving but he felt a sence of betrayal). He got the worst of it. You will never know how bad it was for him. So not the ah but respect his hurt. Don’t force him to care for your dad. Apologize for your part in his pain. Because you didn’t handle things well.
NTA. These comments blaming a 10-year-old for forgiving his father and loving him… geez. While you should not try to get your brother to forgive or have a relationship with your dad, you could conceivably have good relationships with both separately… but only if they both wanted it. Sadly, you can’t force your brother to talk to you. And you have to accept it is his right to cut off his abuser. But it is also your right to not cut off your father. But you did nothing wrong by forgiving your dad or loving him. All these comments with y t a votes are simplifying abuse by a parent. It’s hard because the parent is still your parent and someone you want to love. And you’re allowed to love him even if he doesn’t stop abusing you. But you’re also allowed to cut him off even if he does change and begs forgiveness. Your brother is not an asshole either.
Holy shit, you disgust me.
YTA. I am SO happy Roman got away from you all. He deserves happiness after being betrayed and beaten by his family.
so you can just like, become a navy seal at 18? or before 18? with a history of abuse and a broken home and fighting and probably some petty crimes? eh. nah. naaah. don't they require x years of service or something? and a very stable mind, and absolutely no anti social behaviour?
Seriously YTA Your brother made it absolutely clear he didn't want anything to do with the abusive father YOU took it upon yourself to meddle and try to force then back together, which rightfully blew up in your face Leave him and his new family alone. You made your own shitty bed
Look man, I get where you're coming from, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Both of you are young, both of you are victims of abuse. Neither of you are going to have the same reaction to that. I think you need to give your brother time to be on his own and come to term with his feelings. I also think you need to seek individual therapy to come to terms with the abuse YOU faced as a child. NAH.
OP's reaction was to forgive even though they knew the brother got ot worse and then tried to force her brother to do the same. OP is the worst kind of POS and people like you supporting her are just as bad.
Made the bed, lay in it, traitor. You should feel like the biggest piece of hit on earth. Thank got hes protecting us and not you, you'd let whoever do whatever to us and just let it go.
I mean I don’t think this is real but if it is made a choice and you chose an abuser. That’s on you. I am glad your brother escaped. I noticed that none of you got therapy. I guess your dad doesn’t feel he should fix the messes he creates. He just says sorry and it’s now all better.
These comments are ridiculous. You were a child during this. If he didn’t want to repair his relationship or forgive your father (which is completely understandable) then that is his choice. As long as you weren’t pushing him to have a relationship with your father then you didn’t do anything wrong. You both went thru some traumatic years as children. Side note, your brother’s hatred towards your step mom and siblings might because your father only got his act together for them. At least that is how it can feel. I had deep resentment and at one point hatred for my father, he could treat everyone else very grand but for us he was abusive. It was like my father could hide his addiction to others and would be completely charismatic, but with us he could take the mask off and show us the real ugly side of him. It’s ok to grieve the relationship with your brother. However, you also need to understand why he cut you off. It probably was self preservation for him. He might have felt like he couldn’t trust you and that you would tell your father about what’s happening in his life. Have you seen a therapist about all of this? I would find one that has more experience with addiction and no-contact family relationships. I have no contact with my parents, they also don’t even bother to reach out, and it has been the best thing for me. I went thru a couple therapists that would encourage me to “forgive” and reach out, and that was not going to happen. I think your father needs to still take accountability for the pain he has caused.
From what I read, op did try to foster a relationship between brother and abusive father. Why is she inviting father to the going away party meant for brother? At the very least she tried to play normalcy and diminish the experience of brother who got the bigger dose of abuse. So given that brother was also a child when it initially happened, he saw op as supportive of his abusive father. And when they get older he still saw her always coming in package deal with father. She never did try to create seperate relationship with him. And the burden was on her to create such environment because she was the one who chose to forgive the abuse.
Your brother is traumatised, your father caused him to be traumatised, you stated that he had it worse than you and he obviously feels pushed away by you. You also shouldn't have attempted to force a meeting between you, your father and him. It's difficult to know what else to say to you, because hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it can't undo the past. If you can find him just apologise like tomorrow is never going to happen and hope he is reciprocal.
This is all your Dad's fault, just so you know.
The best you can do rn, is let him live his life and you yours. He made the choice to go non contact as that was what was best for him and his mental health. You can hope that one day he’ll reach out to you but honestly he probably wont. Go to therapy if you havent already
OP I’m sincerely curious- if you decide to answer comments- did you honestly think you were gonna win the side of the internet being an abuser sympathizer?
‘Enlisted for the navy seals’ 🤣🤣🤣🤣 that’s not how it works.
I'm tahinking this is a bad piece of fiction from someone who doesn't even speak English.
The entitlement that this post is sickening. I don’t feel bad for you at all he is protecting himself and his family for toxic people. Stop stalking his fb you are unworthy of seeing his family I hope he figures it out and blocks you.
I don’t think anyone here is an ass except for your dad being the abusive pos that he is. By the sounds of it your brother has followed the foot steps he hated so much by being abusive to your step family. It’s probably the best for everyone that he stays away.
It is okay that you forgave your father. Where you are at fault is that you didn’t respect his choice, and tried to force the issue. Go ahead and reach out. Apologize for not respecting his decision and validating his experience. Under no circumstances do you ever bring up your father again.
You don't enlist in the Navy SEALs. You enlist in the Navy. You have to apply to the SEAL program, once you are in the Navy. If selected to the program, you then have to complete numerous courses/training, including BUDS. A very small percentage of sailors that are accepted to the SEAL program ever actually pin on the Trident and become SEALs.
YTA! While it’s your choice to forgive your abuser, your brother chose not too. He also chose to stop speaking to someone who forgave his abuser. Then you try to force a relationship on him. He’s done with his crappy family. Leave him alone. Stop stalking him.
YTA. Your brother is a mess, however, when someone abuses you and other people know it and still decide to associate them, that's trivializing their trauma. I can understand why he'd be upset. Your father may have apologized, but has he done anything to make amends and treat your brother well? Your brother has every right to not forgive him and not want to be around him and it sounds like you've tried to encourage a relationship between the two of them that your brother doesn't want. The trauma your brother experienced is likely a good part of why he's as messed up as he is. Consider this, your dad didn't clean up his act until your stepmom and stepsibs came into the picture. How do you think that made him feel? His dad was willing to change once there were other kids in the house but he wasn't good enough for your dad to change his ways? That wouldn't be an unreasonable train of thought. Did your dad ever try to get help for him like putting him in counseling in addition to going to family therapy? Yes, I can understand why he got mad at you when you complained to him about your dad. it doesn't mean it was right for him to do, but it's understandable. Lower your expectations. If you have his contact info, apologize for any attempts on your part to get him to do things with your dad around. If it hurts him to be around family, for whatever reason, it's ok for him to stay away. He needs help, but you're not the one he can accept it from. You need to respect his choices.
YTA
Good for him for sticking to his boundaries. You need to respect his boundaries.
Seriously, could you, for once, just stop thinking about you and what you want and whing about how sad you are for not getting what you want at the expense of your brothers mental health and wellbeing. From what it sounds like it is your older brother who shouldered the overwhelming majority of the abuse so he could shelter you, and yet here you are consistently ignoring his sacrifices for your wellbeing and demanding he sacrifices even more just so abusers get to feel better about themselves. You are an abuse enabler and abuser supporter. Just be happy for your brother, it looks like he us having a good life with a stable family and good mental health now he no longer is subjected to your forgiveness shaming and you and your fathers entitlement to his consideration and time over his own personal needs and health. Just stop, leave him alone he will reach out if he wants too and he feels like contact with you and your father is no longer detrimental to him
You know nothing about your brother. You don’t just enlist and become a navy seal at 18. You reach a high level of training where you can then apply for seal training, and most flunk out. If you want to connect with your brother, then write a letter and apologize for ignoring his pain. Then completely let go of the idea of him suddenly choosing to forgive and “Forget” what your Dad did to you both. He can’t forgive or forget, that’s why he avoids you all. He got it worse than you did, and chose his future over one with you. He’s a married father of three, and seems to be living life well without your families drama and interference. Your Dad deserves no sympathy from anyone, shitty people don’t change even when they sober up.
Good for him for sticking to his boundaries. You need to respect his boundaries. YTA on so many levels. Leave him alone.
Your brother wants nothing to do with you or your shit stain father. Quit stalking him and leave him alone!
if your brother is a SEAL then he has tremendous mental fortitude. And also you should change his name to a fake one here as being a SEAL is elite and specialized, you know?
YTA for making this ragebait nonsense
Wait. Did you really invite your dad to his party? You’re complaining to your brother about your father (who is the reason he won’t speak to you)?? You have absolutely no respect for boundaries. It’s one thing if you want to forgive your dad for what he did to you. But your brother has the same right to not accept it. What has your dad done to make things right? Saying sorry isn’t always enough
The only reason he is an AH is for assaulting innocent people and verbally abusing your stepmother. Just because you were abused doesn’t mean you can take it out on innocent people. That being said hes gone and you need to let him be
YTA and so is EVERY SINGLE person on here that is trying to side with you. How yall dont understand this is fucking mind blowing. Your father and apparently you are narcissistic piles of shit that cant see past your own fucked up desires. I pray that youre the abused partner in every relationship you ever have. Maybe youll get some insight as to what it is you want your brother to be ok with💯🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽
YTA
YTA OP. Absolutely you're the asshole. You have no right to push your father into your brother's life. If your brother doesn't want your father in his life, then *you are to respect your brother's wishes*. I cut my father off a year or two ago and I'll be damned if one of my family members tries to push my deadbeat father back into my life. You're asking to get cut off from your brother. A. Never do something like that again. B. If your brother cut contact with you, then there's nothing you can do. You just have to accept it. C. Accept that you fucked up.
You have your wonderful father, you have your step mom, you have your step siblings. Appreciate that. You have nothing to offer your brother. Leave him alone.
NTA. You did the right thing for yourself but your brother has to do what is right for himself. He does not have to forgive your dad. It is great that your dad got sober but it does not negate the damage that he did. I don’t think it would be bad to send him a message that you would like to see him but if you do that there should be no strings attached. You CANNOT bring your dad, suggest your dad come or even talk about your dad unless your brother asks you. You have got to respect your brothers feelings and hope he will respect yours and just leave it at that.
It's sad you and your brother experienced childhood trauma, him more so than you, from what you said. Every person reacts differently to it. You forgave your father and seem to have come through it all right. I'm sorry you don't have a relationship with your brother, but it's not your fault, you were a victim as much as he. I hope your brother has sought therapy and is in a better life situation now.
While I believe you deserve a gentle YTA here, you need to understand that your trauma and ability to forgive it and release it, is not the same trauma your brother experienced. He is not you, you and he did not have the same parent, even though he was abusive to you both. The way your father would have attacked his elder child as being a mirror of his own self hatred is not how you were attacked. You say yourself Roman received more physical and mental attacks from your father. How much did Roman protect you from so you didn’t get harmed worse, how often did he step in to protect you against your father’s attention? You may not remember the details, but for Roman, every punch, every whip of the belt, kick of the boot, viscous backhander and vile name calling is a scar on his soul, including ones he likely took to protect you. That you then forgave the man and in your brother’s eyes, ignored the pain and and humiliation Roman received to make your life easier, was a betrayal almost bigger then your father’s, you then condoned and became part of the abuse - your father he expected it from, he was a lying, useless drunk, but from you, his only person in the world? Your brother went on to do probably the best thing he could ever have done, he sought discipline and a new family in the defence force. You made your peace and worked with the family you have, but that meant letting go of the one you had. Leave Roman alone; I know you were very young and didn’t have a choice, however he’s made it very clear there are no more ties to you in his mind, that part of his life is dead. His children may reach out in years to come because, human nature and curiosity, even then, be very careful of not stepping in his incredibly clear boundaries. You had a brother. Mourn that memory as if he died.
Nta you shared a troubled childhood and had different experiences and different outcomes. That is not you fault, all these people calling you an ass for your actions as a child are just callous. You brother became an abuser and you did not.
YTA. He has every right to shun his abusive dad. Since you are trying to push him and your dad together, he is doing exactly the right thing. He is removing his abusive and toxic family out of his life. You chose your path.
Yta. Your a fucking traitor.and you suck. Now your dad know that if he open his fucking mouth or try anything hes done and so are you.
Deleted their profile because they got BURNED in the comment section.. probably thought they were going to have somebody sympathize with them but hell nah didn’t go that way
You don’t enlist for the Navy Seal team. You join the Navy. Then hope you qualify. This is bullshit.
YTA and there must be some sort of mental disconnect for you to have all the pieces but can’t put the puzzle together. I love that he freed himself from his toxic family and started his own. “I can’t complain to him anymore so let me complain on Reddit” lol
This has to be ragebait, surely you're not this dumb.......
YTA for framing your dad as a victim in the end. Poor dad is heartbroken? He reaps what's he sowed. He destroyed your brother, he doesn't get the right get feel bad that he is missing out on life milestones and parties, he doesn't get the joys of being a grandparent. Your father recovering is a positive but he can't erase the past, he has to respect the boundaries, forgiveness is earned, it's not a right. When he begged for forgiveness, was he truly sorry? Did he get therapy? Did he get you and your brother therapy? Or did he want a simple sorry to sweep it all away without putting in the work? Because he only got better for someone else and that says a lot towards his own kids. You forgave, that was your choice but you pushed your brother, trying to piece back together what your father broke. You have to live with your choices. You chose to have your father in your life, your brother doesn't want that. Your brother doesn't see you as trustworthy, trying to force interactions so you got no contact too. All you can do is hope that he may reach out one day but you have to respect his boundaries, never involved your father unless your brother says so, never bring up your father unless your brother does, otherwise any future potential reconciliation won't happen. Also creeping his social media is disrespecting his boundaries again. Don't pass on what you learned, don't give out any of those details about his family.
I really hope Roman comes across this and can get comfort from the fact he has so much support.
YTA - he clearly doesn’t want anything to do with you or your nfather. why can’t you respect that?
You're NTA for forgiving your Father. That's nobody's business but yours. You shouldn't have invited him to the Party, but that was at age 16. Your Brother doesn't have to have his father in his life...obviously, but to disown you for doing so? That's his choice.
There are 2 AH in this story. It’s your father and you! You are especially a big AH and you know exactly why! Your father must have beaten all common sense out of your skull that you could forgive him. There is no forgiveness for abusing a child who looks up to you for love, safety, and comfort. There is a special place in HELL for parents who abuse their children. No amount of redemption will ever erase the TRAUMA your AH father inflicted on your brother. My only wish is for your brother to get his anger and frustration out of your father in the most physical way a Navy Seal knows….
YTA I have multiple siblings who have multiple parents. Some share DNA and some don’t What we all agree on is we detest the other parent. If I saw my sister’s father and I could legally hit him with my car, I’d be there with balloons. She feels exactly the same about my father So we don’t talk about. If a situation is unavoidable, like a wedding or death, we will be polite FOR each other. If you loved your brother and you were not so selfish you would be able to see that
Joined the navy seals at 18? Married the best friend of OP? Come on you guys.... this one even *I* can see through.
YTA
YTA. Your experience was quite different than Roman’s. He is justified in not wanting contact with his childhood tormentor. It doesn’t matter if he changed. Childhood trauma is not erased simply bc someone changed their ways. What’s sad though is it seems that he has turned to alcohol and may be doing the same things that were done to him. The cycle of abuse is far reaching and is hard to break. Let your brother have some peace so stop trying to force him to make up with his abuser. He has no obligation to do that.
YTA. I’m glad your brother chose himself.
NAH look I get it. But no one is entitled to forgiveness. If you forgave him and he did better good for you. Your brother doesn't have to. It'd be nice if you could agree to disagree and still have something. But life doesn't work that way. You were both kids who healed differently and went different directions. No one here is a ass.
Your brother does not have to forgive either of y’all and you need to accept that. You trying to force your father, his abuser, into his life was incredibly uncalled. You’re allowed to forgive those who have wronged you, but you cannot force others. In additional, you bitched about your brother to the man who made his life hell. That alone would be grounds for disownment. It sounds like he moved on, and good for him.
You are the fucking AH. Stop bothering him and let him leave his life. He tries to leave your toxic father and your add so let he does him. Fuck off!
YTA. You have the right to have whatever relationship you want with your father but you can't expect someone who suffered abuse to continue a relationship with someone who associates with their abuser. You don't feel strongly enough about what happened to your brother to keep strong boundaries with your dad. Unless you do some soul searching and change your priorities the relationship with your brother probably isn't salvageable but I hope you will talk this over with a therapist if you can, try to see things from your brother's perspective, and maybe things can be mended between you two someday.
ESH including all the commenters telling a person they suck for forgiving their parent WHEN THEY WERE A CHILD. Child. Children want things to be right. Some people chose to forgive. Some people don't. Neither are wrong here. The father stopped abusing the kids, apparently. Doesn't make it right. Choosing not to live in conflict for a decade / rest of their life by recognizing change and forgiving is a choice and not a terrible one. A couple years difference between the siblings and the older brother getting the worst of it, makes a big difference in the vast range of normal responses. It's great the brother was able to turn his life around. And it can take people decades to be in the place to talk. Or they can decide its better left behind.
You are not an AH, but you certainly had no place trying to push your brother to forgive your Dad and have a relationship with him. You saw what a relationship with Dad did to him. He pushed away your stepmother and stepsisters because Dad was able to change for their sakes but not yours and his. He changed for people he never hurt or loved when he was a raging alcoholic! Your brother had a lot of anger and resentment in him. The name calling and the hair pulling and such was a way to show them a portion of what you and he went through. That didn’t change Dads life. In your brother’s eyes your dad was never punished for what he did to y’all. He got this great woman, 2 step daughters and he foolish forgiveness of his little sister who saw what he went through as well as going through her own crap with Dad. He didn’t hurt you because he wouldn’t do anything to hurt you personally as you had bee hurt enough and he just cut you out of his life instead of speaking to you, and possibly hurting you verbally. On one side he was protective you from his anger while on the other he was angry at you for forgetting what you both suffered at the hands of Dad! Please reach out to him explain that you understand why he was so angry about our forgiving Dad. Tell him you absolutely did not mean to downplay Dads actions. However tell him did what you did to survive . While you will never forget any of it, that you forgave Dad for your own sake. Just remember he may not be ready to completely accept your reasoning, or forgive your “betrayal” (As it seemed to him!) It may take time but realize Dad is off the table for discussion unless your brother brings him m up. And do not defend Dad to your brother.
Uh. Yeah. As someone who took the brunt of fists as a kid, YTA and also F YOU for forcing your dad onto your brother. How fing dare you. You knew what happened, you saw what happened, and you think that just because your dad claims to be sorry it should somehow just BE OKAY? F YOU, asshole.
This is heavy. You can forgive your abuser, but your brother doesn't have to. It's hurtful to know his own sibling had a party for him and then invited his abuser. He's probably not mad at you for forgiving your abuser. He's mad that you keep trying to force a relationship with them. My guess is your brother is being as respectful towards you as he possibly can by staying NC. He doesn't want to see his abuser. He doesn't want to talk to or about his abuser. He doesn't want to be in the vicinity of his abuser. And he surely doesn't want to party with his abuser. You can't fix it, so stop trying to.
Yes. Even Niko would say you are an asshole.
He enlisted in the navy seals? That's just not even vaguely how it works.
No one just enlists and joins the Navy Seals. If this story is real, you’re the biggest asshole that ever walked the earth. Forgive dad all you want, but your brother was damaged mentally and sounds deep. I wouldn’t get talk to you, either.
YTA. YTA YTA.
Why the heck did you forgive your dad?! If I was him, I’d be pissed as well.
I had an older brother and three older sisters. I was the youngest. My brother was the oldest and I shared a room with him. He hated me, he would hold a pillow over my head until I would quit struggling and then some,then he would pull it off and start laughing. This would get my dad up and punish us both using a belt sometimes. This was just the beginning of years of his physical and mental abuse towards me. My parents especially my dad wanted me to make amends and I would try but I always got bullied or burned by him again. So YTA for trying to bring them back together. He joined the Navy he’s in the SEALS he has his military family and Christina and his children. I say he’s adjusted quite well.
Yta