Hi, this is an automated response to make sure we're all on the same page about the definitions of proshipping and antishipping. There is often a lot of confusion about these terms and people get confused pretty frequently. Its always best to make sure we're all on the same page about what we are talking about.
Anti-shipping/being an anti/being an antishipper/etc has a definition that has morphed a bit over time. Here is some history. Back in the 90's and early 2000's it mostly meant being against shipping in general or being against a specific ship. This was mostly used in specific fandoms/wasn't a pan-fandom term. Since the 2010's however, a pan-fandom definition did emerge and is the most common usage now. That definition is being *actively against certain ships or tropes that are deemed problematic or harmful in some way*. Note this does not mean being uncomfortable with reading a certain ship, trope, or problematic thing in a fanfiction or seeing fanart of a certain ship, trope, or problematic thing. It refers to *people who advocate for the banning, removal, or heavily hiding of that content that they don't want to see*. This has led to many harassment and doxxing issues in fandom spaces. Anyone from proship people they were arguing with, to random users who had written a "problematic" fanfiction and uploaded it to AO3, to anyone who so much as uses AO3 at all, have all been the subjects of these harassment problems.
Conversely, proshipping/being a pro-shipper/being an anti-anti/etc, is a response term to the previously discussed antishipping. It's defined as being against antishipping (using the modern pan-fandom definition). Simply put, it means someone who is against censorship of content in fandom, against harassment and doxxing, and are of the opinion that *regardless of if they personally don't like a specific ship/trope/problematic thing, it has a right to exist and be enjoyed by those who do like that specific ship/trope/problematic thing*. Despite being against harassment, this side of the discourse has also had an issue with harassment on occasion. The subjects of that harassment have been people who self-identify as being an antishipper, or regardless of self-identification, someone who'sbeliefs match those of an anti-shipper. AO3 is generally considered to be a proship website with its foundation having been built on a stance of no censorship, and their rules explicitly not banning problematic content.
For more info you can check the fanlore articles for [proshipping](https://fanlore.org/wiki/Anti-anti) and [antishipping](https://fanlore.org/wiki/Anti-shipper)
Tl;dr: antishipping = wanting to ban problematic content/content they don't like
proshipping = ship and let ship/don’t like don't read
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AO3) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Those are actually strong words. I guess keyboards warriors really holds true for them. Signal-boosting.
Cussing me out and blocking me didn't help a single child. And they most likely don't remotely do as much in real life to protect children.
At the end, stroking their own egos going "I cussed out a bad person" is all they crave.
"As much"? They don't do ANYTHING in real life to protect children, because to these types, online IS real life. The only thing they actively do to protect children is not rape them, presumably, and some antis can't even manage THAT much (the ones screaming the loudest about pedos, well... a lot of the time, it turns out to be projection/an attempt to throw people off their scent). I'm sorry you're going through this, OP.
I’m so sorry that happened to you, but it’s not your fault. Expecting people to be reasonable isn’t a huge ask. They sound young and immature. Hopefully, people with that mindset will grow out of it someday. It doesn’t change what they did or the way they treated you, but it’s maybe a silver-lining. I hope you’re doing okay. Have a hug from this internet stranger!
They were adults.. I guess for Fandom, 20s and 30s can still be young/immature if you've grown up very conservative.
At least you're giving me hope they might change someday. If not for their opinions, then at least in how they treat people they disagree with. (And in reading comprehension..)
Thanks for the hug, I very consciously hord all of your AO3 people's hugs right now. It's calming knowing I get some comfort after the ordeal.
Just remember. If it wasn't you, they would have found another witch. And they'll find another eventually now that you're gone. Just refuse to engage if they pop up elsewhere. Block, report for stalking/harassment, and move on. Rinse and repeat. They'll get tired more quickly with no fuel to add to the fire. If any of the approach you on the side? Ignore-- they may be baiting for a response so the others know who to attack again.
Thank you for your advice. It's a small relief thinking they may give up soon.
It's just that they knew my AO3 name for several hours and might still have my account even after a name change if they saved one of my stories?
They're also in a game I play and can see me daily in the chat, which makes me worry they might stick for longer.
And I don't know who else counts to them. I have friends that might have gotten messages from them and I wouldn't be able to tell who's secretly feeding them private conversations.
It's frightening for me.
If they harrass you in the game, take screenshots and send it to the game moderators/file a complaint for harassment. Also just ignore them. Again; any interaction will fuel the fire. I'd avoid having private/personal conversations with anybody you do not 30000 percent trust right now. I know it's hard; but honestly starting completely fresh is often easiest in this situation.
Make fully new accounts for EVERYTHING. Document EVERYTHING- every scrap of harassment. Make a google doc, and save. It. ALL. Because when the chips fall and shit hits the fan, you can pull back to this and say, "This individual has been harassing me in multiple places since this date, and this time. These are the things said, and they have followed me to here-- What can be done?" You can also reference back to it to show other people; "This is what I have been dealing with. This is what I said that set it off; that I think fiction=fiction and does not affect reality. These are the usernames I am avoiding; be aware they may reach out to you.' If you have a solid timeline of events/a record to fall back on, it will save you having to re-explain things over and over-- you can just link the doc.
For MMOs they likely won't be stupid enough to harass you in chats; as there are logs for ALL of that and anything they send you can be viewed by the moderation teams. Anything else? Screenshot, and write the date, time, and your experience as it happened.
i 100% agree that OP should be documenting everything. as someone who was stalked/harassed/doxxed online for about a year and a half, that is the main thing i wish that i had done more often.
There's a reason I never. Delete. ANYTHING. EVER. It's all evidence. Oh, you said I told you this via text three years ago, on this date at this time?? Well why don't we just cross-reference that in my phone! No worries-- I still have my phone from three years ago, just lemme grab the charger! :)
Amazing how many people realize they 'must be mixing me with someone else'
Yikes. I assumed they were younger. My bad. Well, we all spend our lives learning and growing, or at least I like to believe so. Maybe they will look back on this with regret. Regardless, it’s not your fault and you shouldn’t have to deal with it. Don’t engage anymore. Protect your mental health.
Thank you. I got stuck on that for a lot of hours now because I couldn't handle not mulling it over.
I definitely grew up to regret a lot of hurt I caused others, but I know a lot of people won't ever accept fault. Guess it's not on me to decide if they'll possibly change. The hurt happened and all I can do is find a good finish for worrying over it and move on to more positive things. There are billions of people in the world - this bunch just wasn't right for me.
I'm sorry. That's a horrible experience in every sense.
Your "friends" are a bunch of bloodthirsty bullies with the critical thinking and common sense of an embalmed rodent. Neither their accusations nor opinions are worth as much as runny shit.
None of that makes the harassment less distressing, but you've done nothing wrong in this scenario.
Thank you for being the aggressive voice cursing them out. I got so lost feeling threatened that having someone use foul language back at them feels like having an older sibling taking over and protecting me from further harm.
I rationally know I'm not in the wrong, but I also feel like I am for not stopping it immediately, going "I don't condone children getting hurt" ?
Yet as you say.. they wouldn't have accepted it anyway. I told them fiction isn't real life, but they're most likely stuck in that one bubble.
It certainly felt that way. They read "Proshipper" and spamed it like they just found out I'm a serial killer. I'm pretty sure there were at least 10 messages from just 4 people repeating "do you like adult x child?!" in the first 2 minutes alone.
They were absolutely relentless, it was basically already decided that the answer was yes, and that it was all there was to me.
People like that look for the smallest signs of someone being less than perfectly pure according to their standard. It's built into their mindset to monitor others for transgressions.
I'd 100% be ready and willing to be the crass voice of very, very furious reason on the behalf of you or anyone enduring this bullshit. I've seen the harm anti-shippers inflict on real people in the name of protecting fictional characters; it's revolting, especially when they go after users who are minors themselves.
Don't blame yourself, even if it's easier said than done. As others have said and as you yourself know, nothing you said could've reached these shitheads. They are fundamentally bullies. They don't want to protect real children; if they did, fandom and fiction wouldn't be their choice of battleground. All they do is go on violent power trips tearing down people like you who end up in their maw, one way or the other.
If you need to, don't hesitate to abandon your current socials and create entirely new accounts with no connection to your real identity or old accounts. I'd also recommend entirely avoiding friendships with puritan brats in the future; they can and will eat their own.
At the risk of sounding like a bitch, your "friends" sound like a group of spoiled children who lack any real problems in their lives and any perspective.
I guess they aren't called the "moral police" for nothing. It's weird to me how I knew I was the most mature in the group, yet didn't see the red flags that they're a flock of people that'll act as a group if someone crosses them. Luckily, we didn't know each other for long, but I still received a pretty big blow to my feeling of safety around people.
Unfortunately, this is how people end up switching sides. It’s not a matter of *if* you’ll harassed by so called ‘friends’ but a matter of *when*.
You can’t gain healthy friendships when you’re constantly walking on eggshells and living in fear of saying or shipping the ‘wrong’ thing.
A lot of people who are antis or people who deem themselves neutral on the topic, often switch sides when shit like this happens because they finally see for themselves how horrible antis truly are.
These people don’t care about anything besides making others miserable. They use abuse survivors as a cover up so they can be abusive to people who they deem worthy of it.
As you mention, you provided evidence and tried to talk to them with logic, they don’t care about that and will continue to mindlessly throw accusations at anyone who disagrees with them because they have this ‘with me or against me’ mindset.
It’s not your fault. You just need to find friends who don’t give a fuck and won’t care about what you like or don’t like when it comes to fiction.
Hope you feel better soon :)
That’s what happened to me, I was always kind of mildly anti until I saw how awful antis acts online and how… *not* proshippers did. Ironically, the fact that proshippers were more chill made it so I actually was able to hear out their argument on the topic, unlike antis. Over time it became less of a “these people don’t make me feel like I’m walking on eggshells” thing and more of a “hey wait they’ve got a point” thing.
It changes for me. I am "neutral". Occasionally, "antis" are stupid to me, and I think: "It's not that deep," then I go onto this subreddit and think: "Move on." Both sides take to much pride in dumb ass labels on ship wars
I feel like you’re downplaying the issue—it’s not just ship wars. One group wants to throw serious, potentially life-altering accusations against people while the other group just doesn’t want to be harassed.
Thank you, that helped a lot. Logically I know all that, but having it happen to myself still threw me off the tracks.
I met them in a game with typical underage characters like most of those games are nowadays, nothing sexual. I didn't even expect I was befriending a group of Antis. They openly talked naughty about the minor characters, shipped them, loved extremely problematic characters and sexualized them too.
It's still confusing to me how they can do all that, then turn around and scream "pedophile" at someone who says they accept problematic topics in fictional media - because very obviously, THEY did, too.
The whole fight hinged on "adult x child" so I guess that's how they protect themselves from accepting that they are very much Proshippers in the widely accepted definition of the word.
Thank you. I'm still working through the hurt, answering you wonderful people helps a lot.
I tried securing my AO3 account at least, changing the name and blocking readers and commenters without an account to interact with my works.
I'm just frightened they'll find ways to get to me again. It's probably nonsensical, as they were the ones who left. But I feel like I'm not safe with the friends I've left in the same spaces. I don't know who might've gotten a private message from them and I'm afraid it might start again with people I deemed safe. Blocking them then would still be after I got my trust broken again.
You're right.
"Stay in the environment that treats you kindly"
It's on me to make sure the people I surround myself with align with my own morals of treating people friendly, even if we don't agree on topics.
That is horrible. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I understand your fears. Try to block and move on. They're a puritan cult that can't be reasoned with with logic.
It's what bothers me the most aside from not stopping it immediately or stepping out - I've read enough posts and comments from you lovely people here how they're puritan and won't accept logic, yet I tried to argue.
It was definitely in vain - loss of time and peace of mind. They definitely won't listen and it was a loss for everyone involved.
Yeah never JADE.
Justify
Argue
Defend
Explain
Because they'll counter with DARVO.
Deflect/Deny
Attack
Reverse
Victim and
Offender.
The best defence is do not engage. But you know rhat now abd you won't waste your time on awful people.
Instead you can talk to the lovely folks here.
_hugs_
I'm sorry to hear that you went through this...
The thing about antis is that they can't even be friends with each other. Each anti has their own version of what is "proship" (*I wish people would stop misusing this label...*) and what isn't. So if you get them to reveal what ships they like, they can 100% start eating each other alive... They make 0 sense.
It's whatever if they find certain ships wrong, but their actions do not add up to their own values. They can even have a "problematic" ship without even realizing it because they don't have a ship that goes under the typical tropes antis witch hunt. They are burying themselves by interacting with that side and they often learn sooner or later to at least be neutral. There's just too many people where they have a ship they adore become problematic overnight because of one slight retconning in the series...
Proship absolutely needs to be accepted for the definitions it truly holds. I've read a bunch of people stating that Antis are a pretty small group that's just extremely loud, but it feels like they're causing Proship to mean something bad for new people entering the fandom spaces.
I just can't.. they actively sexualized extremely violent and problematic underage characters, shipped them with each other, but they draw the line at adult x child. They literally shipped characters attacking each other, threatening murder, wounding people, killing animals - that seemed okay.
Their definitions of "problematic" are just so far out of anything that makes sense in my head. I guess that was why I didn't expect them to turn out as a mob of Antis.
But don't you ship a "couple" where ab adult rapes a child? I mean, the one thing is to read about rape as we read about crimes and another to read it as a love story
Please shut up. Fiction is fiction. OP just shared a harrowing story about being harassed by people and you come here to harass them some more? Such gross behavior of you.
1) Y'all antis will use 'this is pedophilia' and 'this is rape' to describe an 18-year-old being in a relationship with a 16-year-old. Without any additional context, I'll assume you're being ridiculous.
2) Yes, it is in fact fiction, and many people who have trauma relating to this topic 'romanticize' it in fiction in order to process their own experiences.
3) Idiots get blocked.
Stop fucking harassing OP.
You know, Daenerys is 14 in ASoIaF. Stephen King wrote a child sex orgy in It. But I have never seen antis foaming at the mouth at those big names nearly as much as I see the vitriol against random fanfic authors who aren't doing it for profit.
Oh, they absolutely do. It's just that the authors have support from fellow creators who recognise fiction from reality, and they have the numbers to not give a shit about a vocal minority of a mob. Unfortunately, smaller/indie writers and fandom members often lack such industry protections.
At best, they'll get onto their soapbox on [insert platform here] and preach to the flock, while everyone else ignores their church building, and then find something else to get angry about.
Eroticised and romanticized noncon, with or without the underage aspect, is a common trope. The framing of the story has no bearing on what content is or isn't acceptable. Someone writing a love story featuring an adult and a teen doesn't mean they condone statutory rape, just like someone who writes a violent revenge fantasy framing the protagonist as a hero isn't condoning wanton murder.
Actually, no.
There's a difference between showing rape or pedophilia like a part of reality, while you can see why the abuser is a bag guy he/she is. It's another story where you're trying to portrait it as a love story, showing that the victim is actually okay
I mean, I understand that for example omegaverse is a big rape fantasy where "omegas" are just how misogynistic men see "perfect women" who you can rape and they will love it. There's probably some kind of explanation why people like this type of fics. But I think it's better to admit what exactly you like and not just acting like a victim.
Being harassed over fiction, targeted and ganged up upon, is never okay. OP is a victim because they were unfairly targeted for no reason. You should stop trying to trivialize their unfortunate encounter.
Because they kinda can be evil at times when they're defending what they think is moral.
When we say antis, we mean the people who make their discomfort an inconvenience to everyone else rather than curating their own experiences.
There's a difference between stating why a pair makes you uncomfortable in your own post and villianizing others for your discomforts in their territories. You can be critical of a ship dynamic and still be proship. It's when you start censoring and attacking others for having a different list than you is when you become an anti.
Op was literally bullied out of her group over a misunderstanding of her irl stances. What I said in my comment is that because of how quick antis are to jump on someone, they aren't unified like they think they are, and because each is so different, they can tear apart their own group if they found out they disagreed with each other.
People with "non problematic" interests aren't the same as antis, who purposely act as an inconvenience based on their own worldviews. Some antis are relatively relaxed while others literally try to kill people....
Usually in the form of suicide baiting, but it starts with mass death threats, trying to get you fired from your job, someone sneaking needles in a cookie at a convention some time back, etc. They're very rare, but they're out there.
Because antis are a symptom of encroaching puritanical conservatism - look up the FF.net purges and why they happened, for example. It always starts with "banning only problematic content" and then the goalposts shift to "problematic content includes queer people because children shouldn't be groomed into being gay".
Antis are typically teenagers who know nothing about the world yet still try to enforce their idea of "morality" onto strangers. Most harassment in fandoms come from antis. There is no excuse for attacking people over fiction.
If it's any consolation, even the best explanations don't help. With this sort of person, you're put into a position where you need to shrug and say "yup I'm a horrible person. Better phone up the vatican, send out the old priest and young priest about it."
Which isn't easy to do by any means. It sucks. This is just a special type of person who needs a villain for all their own "bad" feelings, and they'll jump through whatever mental hoops they need to in order to rid themselves of that sensation. They jump to pedophilia, because it's the strongest thing they can think of. Like purposefully going for maximum insult straight out the gates.
It's not you. I hope things clear up for you soon; these people are a real problem.
Thank you so much. Your words are surprisingly soothing, although I can't exactly put my finger on why.
The exorcism reference is amazing, it hugs my horror loving heart.
And yes, rationally I understand that pedophilia is the strongest they can go for. I wonder if they failed with other topics, as children are the soft spot in every society and them not being safe can rile up almost every person.
I'm glad it helps!
I've dealt with people like this offline, and I feel like no real thought goes into their reactions. They jump to whatever the worst thing is they could possibly dream of and start pointing. And it's like, they'll goad people into arguments and they know they can't really emotionally handle them, and then they'll just explode all over everyone and try to burn every bridge they've ever built. Every time.
The frustrating thing is that antis found a commonality amongst each other in that habit and now move around like roving bands of emotional terrorists, just accusing absolute strangers of being complete monsters every time they stub their toe or poke a sleeping bear.
It can feel really raw now, but it gets better. And too, like yeah, avoiding shitty people is advisable, but it's really hard when you have a group of people who essentially go looking for trouble and act like the world's most depressing Jack-in-the-box--just ready to pop on out with harassment. There's no way you could've known.
Keep yourself safe/well, and I hope there are spots in the fandom that are still comforting. <3
I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience, but this is NOT your fault. As much as this hurts now, you ultimately dodged a bullet if "let's team up and bully them to the point of tears" is their no. 1 response to someone having a different opinion from them.
Don't let it ruin your enjoyment of the game and fandom in question, they are only a miniscule part of it, even if they may be a loud one. While I don't know which game it is about, I can't think of any that don't have a diverse userbase with people of all walks of life and all sorts of differing opinions. People who surely deserve your company more than a bunch of bullies.
Your stance is absolutely a reasonable one, and from what it sounds like, you had ample evidence to back it up. Maybe the effort was wasted on them, but often antis are quite young and/or inexperienced with media in general and DO grow out of it in due time, and maybe after the dust settles, some may eventually start doubting the group pressure mentality of "everything we disapprove of must not exist" and even remember some of the arguments you showed them today. Still doesn't change how you were treated though, and that isn't acceptable no matter how someone feels about the topic in question.
So, what now? I'd say treat yourself to something you enjoy today, here is your [virtual hug]™ 😉 and look for more tolerant friends in your fandom eventually. There are often discord groups and the like that are quite chill about these things. Avoid people with "proship DNI" in their bio, that's always a red flag.
Moving foward, you can disable guest comments and turn on comment moderation if you are worried about getting harassed by them on AO3. If they try something on social media, feel free to report them for harassment, you don't owe them any kindness if they didn't show you any.
The game is pretty new and niche, so it's still a small user base that's not very active in chat. I'm known there, also known to help out a lot if newbies have questions. So it's doubly troublesome for me. I really enjoyed the game so far, but I'm afraid to enter chat again or interact with players.
I don't feel like their opinion about my claims will change, though. Children are a delicate topic, so whatever you state might not ever be acceptable even after years, because "it's still children". I feel like pedophilia is the very niche mini topic in fandom that they're absolutely sure can't ever be reasoned about. At least there might be hope they'll realize the vast majority of content aside from that that exists.
I disabled readers and commenters without account, though, so they'd have to show face.
Aw, thank you for the kind hug. Hah, I managed to let the whole day go by stressing about it and answering kind people here. You lovely ones showed up in way bigger numbers than I would've ever anticipated, so thank you for picking up one who fell over for a bit
They're 20 to 30 and doing the anti cult bs?
They need hobbies. To get a life, one of their own! How sad their lives have to be if they're up in arms twisting words like that.
Forget them. Forget their sad pathetic whimpering and whining. They wanna waste breath getting upset over things that aren't issues then that's on them. The fainting couch and pearls to clutch are over there away from people so the antis can stop causing a scene and making an ass of themselves.
It is not your fault. But that's antis for you. Now, realise, if a rape victim had admitted they write rape stories to cope with their trauma, they'd done exactly the same to them.
Do you really want to be acquainted with people who would attack you at the drop of a hat just because of fictional media? People you'd have to tiptoe around all the time just to avoid asking for **tolerance?**
That's how bad things happen in the world.
People start aggressively fighting for censorship and others stand idly by.
These weren't friends. Full stop. These were people pretending to be your friends. Real friends don't take 'i don't care what you ship it's none of my business' as anything bad.
I'm so sorry you were horribly attacked be these awful immature people. They are what is wrong with fandom and they are awful awful bullies.
It's kind of ironic that they're after you for being a "bad person", because they are the real scourge of the internet: bullies. People who hurt others for fun who do it in a mob because they're small and cowardly on their own. This proship thing is just a cover to let them do that without feeling bad about themselves.
Sorry this happened to you, it's not your fault, it's theirs. Unfortunately getting attacked hurts, even when you know the other party is in the wrong. I hope you'll be able to separate the shitty actions of shitty people from the things that you love, but absolutely no pressure--taking care of yourself however you need to is the most important thing. ❤️
So sorry that happened to you! ❤️ as much as antis like to act like they have the moral ground, bullying still isn’t exactly…ethical? Morally correct. Strange how their mental gymnastics work.
You do you, block if you need to and you can always find better friends than that. Much luck and love to you.
Antis have no friends, just situational allies. They'll drop anyone like a hot potato no matter how close the moment they suspect something's "immoral".
I'm sorry this happened to you. You didn't deserve to be harassed and repudiated like that. All you can do now is block them and be more careful with whom you interact. With antis, there's never enough caution.
Your “friends” are addicted to the feelings of self-righteousness and satisfaction that they get from punishing someone they see as their enemy. It is impossible to reason with them because if they stop believing that they are right, they lose the huge emotional high that comes from confirming that they are good and in-group by driving away an interloper. If it’s any comfort, it was never going to last, even if you never said anything. Cliques like that are doomed to eat their own, and there’s no other way for them to be. If you look back at the group in another year or so, it’s very likely they will all hate each other as much as they hate you now. Still a bad feeling though, I know! Try to find some new friends who are a lot more relaxed and you’ll have a better time.
As someone who has been receiving a ton of harassment lately because of a similar situation to the point of having a full blown mental breakdown I seriously feel this
Stay strong, don’t let people like this get to you <3
Fuck, my heart goes out to you. It’s one thing getting this bullshit from anons and a whole other thing being shamed and rejected by people you considered friends and whose opinions you valued.
You are not weak or wrong for getting upset. Feel sad, angry, afraid, whatever it is you feel. You have a right to.
Some years ago I left the religious cult I grew up in, and I know the lingering shame of self-righteous assholes talking shit about you and your character. That’s how these people get their existential rocks off: creating a fake world where they’re better than others for [insert reasons here].
I’m sorry that that has happened!
That’s why I avoid anyone with “proship dni” in their profile because it doesn’t matter how ‘nice’ they appear, they will turn into blood thirsty fandom policing hounds that will ruin your life over the slightly bs. I don’t wanna persaid to do anything brass, but just block them. It’s not worth it if they are willing to attack you severely for a slip up.
I’ve started just trauma dumping on any antis that come for me. Like, you have issues with CP being portrayed in media? Well I had issues with being molested but look at me cope now!
A few years ago, when I'd just turned 18 and was still very active in the My Hero Academia community, I encountered my first anti where they tried bashing me for shipping characters from the show and how that made me a pedo.
I told them I'm a survivor of being SAd by a family member during my childhood and told them how much it hurt me they would compare me to the man that did that to me, however indirectly, and their response was "it's just a joke"
I tried asking them what part of accusing people of being pedos is funny and they blocked me.
Anyways, all this to say these people don't really care about logic, they just want to feel like they have some kind of moral high ground, and the only way you'll get under their skin isn't through making sense, only through making their actions seem more morally reprehensible in their own eyes.
My Hero Academia shippers can be fucking demonic, man. This is why my OTP for the franchise is CanonxOC. They can get pissed all they want.
I'm really sorry that happened to you. Please try to remember it's because of MHA's fanbase being young-leaning and thus immature.
I’m so, SO, sorry this happened. I’ve been dogpiled by antis before and had to purge my old accounts after being harassed and accused of supporting real life pedophilia and beastiality. It’s disgusting how quick these fools are to antagonize people so quickly over FICTIONAL things, not to mention the hive mind mentality. You’d think they’d go and channel all their energy into helping or at least advocating for actual, living victims of CSA; nope, it’s the non-sentient pixels on a screen that need saving, apparently.
Please don’t let them bully you off the internet. It’s what they want. Don’t let these assholes defile your passion for writing. It’s useless to pander to them or try and reason with them. Believe me, I’ve tried. Keep doing what you’re doing and if you know any of their handles, block them liberally.
Before you do anything, take some time for yourself. Breathe. Know that you’re not in the wrong here. And know you always have a safe space here :)
Thank you for your kind words and explanations. I'm sorry it happened to you too. You seem like such a strong and intelligent person, so I get the impression I want to become as strong as you are.
I love the wording of "it’s the non-sentient pixels on a screen that need saving". They argue that fiction causes reality, I guess. But countless studies have proven otherwise.
Even worse: they want to avoid pedophilia in fiction to spread to real life, yet are by their logic okay with violence and murder spreading to real life. Because that's exactly what characters they cheered on. And the character they hated got written violence from them, too.
I know you're right about them not ever accepting anything I'd do and it shouldn't bother me. It's the fact that I've seen people post harassment comments they received for their fics, and that I'm not sure if they're still able to find mine. I fear it might start again there. Even if I block them then, the hurt will have happened again.
Thank you for advising me to calm myself and know that I'm safe here. Rationally I know that, but seeing it written by you lovely people kinda makes my emotions get the message, too.
I’m glad I helped you feel at ease. True, sometimes these idiots will try and seek people out to harass to an extensive point, but the best advice I can give is just to ignore it unless they’re holding a mass harassment campaign against you or are trying to doxx you.
They’re just a bunch of idiots who want to make problems out of nothing, and by giving them that attention and reacting to them, it makes them feel powerful and as if their words have merit.
As for the “being okay with murder” thing, they, as well as society are more desensitized to murder and violence as it’s present in several kinds of mainstream media, whereas sex is more taboo and treated as something dirty and gross; this leads them to internalizing this mindset and projecting it into fiction. Ergo, murder and violence is totally okay, but problematic relationship dynamics are not, despite both being awful in real life.
Unfortunately, they jumped the border for mass harassment and doxxing. Showed up as a group in the game's world chat publicly defaming me to "warn people" and publicly giving out my AO3 username. There are also several signs they've gone and found me in another game server, private-messaged people and are trying to get me thrown out of social aspects of the game. Right now, they're camping the world chat, making it very clear they'll publicly scream "pedophile" again and give out my AO3 again if I show up. They also group attacked a player I'm friendly with in the fighting system, likely because he didn't react to the accusations, and openly cheered in world chat when one of them threw him off his high ranking.
It definitely escalated into a wide-aimed witch hunt. And it's completely unhinged, especially for people who claim to be adults. Not that it seems new when it comes to antis.
-
I totally get the "desensitized" aspect of media, seeing how Game of Thrones is such an extreme hit. So I'm doubly frustrated with people openly cheering on and sexualizing violent underage characters, then turning around screaming pedophilia when you say that you accept whatever laws accept.
Publicly loving and sexualizing psychologically questionable fictional minors and pairs seems totally fine - until the person is affiliated with fanfiction. Then it's suddenly "problematic" and "pedophilia".
I had one argue with me they have a young daughter (the typical "fiction=reality so fiction isn't allowed to exist") and laws are different in every country - I missed my chance asking her if she'd love to have Afghanistan's laws be the ones we should obey, seeing how she seems concerned with progressive countries allowing negative topics in fictional media. Maybe she'd feel better having her child and herself be denied health care, education, and being chased and killed for being "too inappropriate" because her hair was visible in public.
But I don't want to stoop as low as them, using victims as a "gotcha" card.
So, I have a question. Do you portrait pedophilia and rape as a problem or do you just make a love story where the victim fell in love, etc? Because that's 2 different approach and you do promote idea that pedophilia is a type of love and rape is a way to love - I don't think you're a victim here.
I'll also add that the human race has been able to tell what things in fiction are okay and what aren't for longer than you have been alive. You don't need fiction to hold your hand and tell you "this is a bad thing, it's a big no no". Again if you need fiction to tell you when something is wrong to do irl, the problem lies with you.
Hey. It is not your fault.
They are the problem. They are the ones whose minds are so twisted they think it's okay to attack other people for... not being judgemental asshats.
I want you to know, as someone who has been in fandom for over twenty years, 'proshipping' has always been the general attitude. This anti shit is new and not something decent people are okay with.
You keep doing you, OP. I'm really glad to have you in fandom. Don't let the antis get you down.
Thank you so much. It's my motto for being "Proship" and saying it's not okay to make it something it wasn't. We're about acceptance, even if it's negative topics in media. If tv shows and books can depict it, it should be okay for Fandom too.
It's the "Proship = pedophilia" that got me so bad. I can't wrap my head around how someone can enter a library and scream at the 3 books depicting it in a "too positive way", like the whole library is to blame. It's hard to accept they attack a whole library and it's workers and guests for the few things that are hard to stomach.
I'm in the space for over 20 years now as well.. those attacking people are vile. Stomping in and playing police.
Thank you for your reassuring words. I guess I'll need some time to feel okay with publishing again, so I'll happily lurk for a bit and shower you amazing authors with kudos.
As others have said, this is not your fault. You shouldn't have to panic about having \*a normal opinion\* that is in line with literally the entire history of fiction. They don't care about facts, they only care about ganging up on people and trying to prove their moral superiority. Even if you had immediately disengaged, it sounds like they would have continued.
You assumed these people were your friends, and that the friendship you had built would have them give you the benefit of the doubt. That's a really, really shitty thing to discover you're wrong about, and I'm sorry they did that to you.
I know being ganged up on online can make you want to curl up and lay low until everything blows over, but these are the type of people who find glee in making others miserable. They lose if you refuse to be miserable. I hope you are able to find a way to enjoy the things you love without them, and hopefully there are spaces in your fandoms that are against harassment and open to all. Antis are a loud minority, but they \*are\* a minority. In the meantime, start using that block button freely.
These people are so obsessed with pedophilia and child rape fr
Create a new account but leave the other one up. Don't let them convince you that this is a world ending event
Honestly if they didn't attack you for that, they'd have found something else to attack you for down the road. People like that are always looking for perceived moral high grounds and justification to dogpile on others - as evidenced by their inability to accept your explanation that you don't even vibe with those kinds of taboo subjects. Eventually you would have said the wrong thing about a completely different topic and they would have done the same thing.
Had it happen to me a few years back - though it had nothing to do with proship or antiship. Watched it happen recently in a small fandom I'm apart of where an entire friend group broke apart because they were held together by the glue of shitting on other people who wrote Dead Dove. One member tried to dox and run another person off the site and caught shit for it from the wider community - then started shitting on their friends when they tried to tell them to apologize.
These kinds of groups do it all the time regardless of their personal topic of contention. They cannibalize themselves and splinter until everyone is left bitter and angry. Because the core thread that binds them is diseased. It never, ever fucking ends well and I'm so sorry you got caught in the brunt of it. I know it doesn't help to hear that it would have always gone this way - but you need to understand that it isn't you, it's them. Your former friends sound like they are fundamentally broken people who crave drama in order to fill a void in their lives.
I'm vindictive, so i'd report the chat for bullying to whatever site it is.
Young/Immature depends HIGHLY on what your culture you're coming from, what society you live in and lifestyle.
doesn't matter they're "Adults". they're immature and you don't need them.
>And now I realize it's basically my fault.
Bullshit. Other people's hate and ignorance is never your fault. It sucks and it hurts but you're better off without people like them in your life.
First of all, Jesus fucking Christ, I'm so sorry for what happened. But secondly... These are antis and they had no problem with attacking you. So I guess they would have no problem attacking anyone. So, I know it hurts now, but I think you'll soon feel better about not texting with them anymore. They were the bad guys and there were more of them. Seriously, fuck them.
Also change the account, name, and block everyone. If you have their accounts on ao3 - remember that you can report them. Maybe even take a break from the fandom, I don't know, a few days with no interaction, just watching movies/reading books. Just rest.
Thank you. All you people's messages picked me up a lot. I understood the whole time that they were unfairly going against one person as a group without taking into consideration that I might need time to think and respond properly. It's frightening, experiencing it.
I guess what I really want to take from this experience is understanding people better who go through this or worse attacks. It should really end, people shouldn't treat each other like that.
I already went ahead and changed username and blocked interaction without accounts. I don't know if I was fast enough.
And yes, taking a step back and indulging in media and activities that still feel safe is a very good advice. Thank you. I guess that's actually the best I can do now, or I'll keep on stressing myself out over something that can very well be over.
You either die an anti or you live long enough to see yourself become a proshipper.
People either drop fanfiction or they grow more tolerant, it's the lifecycle of a shipper. Inevitably, everyone ends up shipping something problematic, sooner or later, and they switch teams. Don't let them get to you, they've not matured yet.
It's the ultimate uno reverse card to the common "die a hero, or live long enough to become a villain" saying?
I don't even get the whole "problematic" thing. People shoot at each other in movies. Or cheat on each other. Or kill a child. The same applies to tv shows, books, art.. But when it's free fiction by mostly non-professionals, suddenly it becomes a problem.
Because fanfiction is an easy target. Even though it’s more mainstream than it used to be, people generally treat fanworks like they’re lesser than traditional art. Going by their own logic, they should be going after Stephen King for all the fucked up shit he writes, but they don’t because they would get laughed or bullied off the Internet.
There's nothing normal about stalking and harassing people over fiction. There's nothing normal about accusing people of serious crimes just because of the fiction they like and create.
Antis are so out of their mind if they think hurting real people in real life is the righteous thing to do and somehow better than a pro-shipper exploring various topics using fictional characters in a fictional world.
This is what everyone should do, they crave attention and are addicted to harassing people. If everyone just blocked them they wouldn't know what to do with themselves
I always did before. I definitely underestimated my lack of proper judgement while sleep-deprived and excited by a very active joyful chat.
It turned so fast, showing me with absolute certainty why it's always advised to not let an anti know.
I guess that was a very harsh and immediate lesson I received there.
They're always crying about how problematic ship content can be used for grooming while ignoring that they're the ones pushing an internet culture that encourages minors to openly state their age, gender, sexuality, and triggers in their profile, look at sexual content with strangers (so they can talk about how gross it is) and then *go confront the creators they believe to be pedophiles* about said content. Like. What part of that protects kids from being groomed.
Ikr? They are so fake too, I saw a poor artist who dealt with real csa get harrassed by antis who said quote "that they deserved it and so much worse" over a fucking ship to an actual victim?? They're always 'for the victims' but the moment a victim disagrees with them they do everything they can to invalidate their experience to justify their cruelty
I really really feel for you. It isn't your fault that a bunch of immature jerks decided to gang up on you. And while stepping away and blocking them might have worked out better for you I don't blame you for not doing so.
Don't let them get to you, take some time off the internet or do something you enjoy :)
I'm so sorry, that must be hard when you considered them your friends.
But it wasn't your fault. You tried to talk to them like adults but they just weren't buying. Maybe you lost your cool during the argument but it sounds like they were far from level headed to begin with so it's really not your fault if you reacted similarly.
For what it's worth, fandoms are full of more mature and accepting people peacefully mindign their own business, you just wandered into the wrong space. I'd say if they were ready to attack you just like that, with no consideration for either logic or your feelings, they're just not people worth hanging out with. Let them wallow in their hate, good riddance. Though that probably doesn't make it hurt less right now, but seriously, you deserve better friends.
I had a pretty similar experience with antis on twitter. No matter how much or how well you explain what proship actually means they won't care. They already have it made up in their head that you're a horrible person that touches children. Thankfully I have a good group of people in that fandom that helped me through it cause it messed me up mentally bad. 🫂 Things will get better eventually, I'm sorry a lot of people in fandom suck these days.
>And now I realize it's basically my fault. I was the one telling an Anti in a group chat that I'm accepting of all fictional media. I'm the one who lost their head during the accusations and failed to act level headed and reasonable.
OP, you were the level-headed and sane one in that conversation. Anyone who jumps at another person’s neck just for respecting *fictional* content they dislike is not someone who I’d consider reasonable.
You did not deserve this. I repeat: you did *not* deserve this. Don’t blame yourself for the fact that antis care more about the sanctity of fictional characters than about the well-being of real life people. They’re the ones in the wrong here, not you.
As another proshipper in the “whatever floats your boat” way who is part of a bunch of anti-infested fandoms, I’m sending you a virtual hug.
I'm so sorry. That's absolutely horrible.
You didn't do anything wrong. Of course you got upset and freaked out. They were the ones spamming accusations instead of sitting there and listening. They chose not to understand you or give you the benefit of the doubt despite knowing you enough to vibe with. They are the ones who should be ashamed, not you.
There's something I've learned: if they're not paying your rent or contributing to your life, they aren't anyone. Yes, there's people who will hate on you, but what can they do if you block them? What can they materially do to you? But being isolated sucks. It's best to find friends who like the same things you do and aren't looking to step on you to feel good about themselves. This can take time, but people like that are out there.
Definitely step back and evaluate them as people. Rip them apart for the things you know about them and take time to mourn. I have gotten into dustups with people who, when I really looked at them, were people I never would want to be like a day in my life. You can't let them keep you out.
Take your time and get back in there. Or don't! But as an old fan, don't let a bunch of bottom feeders get in your way.
Oh my god I am so angry on your behalf. This is NOT your fault, anyone would've reacted the way you did, when their so-called friends attacked them in this horrible way.
This trend of accusing everybody of Pedophilia is absolutely disgusting and I genuinely think they're making the world a less safe place.
Give me their numbers oh my god, I am so angry for you.
You shouldn't blame yourself for that, because they *hugely* overreacted and dogpiled you on purpose, because they knew a situation like that would intimidate you and make it more likely for you to not know what to do and to not know how to respond.
That's *huge* asshole behavior on their part and means that they set the whole "confrontation" up to be as bad and long and awful as possible for you. You couldn't have known that would happen, because this was *your friend* and a true friend would have confronted you directly and calmly - not waited until an entire group is available to yell at you, insult you and ostrachize you together.
They were 100% in the wrong and 100% to blame for the situation. It's not your fault that you missed a tiny sign that was never even directly addressed to you. It's not your fault that you *trusted your friend* and got stabbed in the back by them in the most awful way. It's not your fault that you didn't know how to immediately respond to and salvage a situation *that you didn't even know could happen, especially just due to one small thing you said.*
I'm so sorry this all happened to you and I'm sending a whole boatload of virtual hugs your way.
And as harsh as it might sound, if the other fandom space cares about this bs, then that space is not worth wasting your time on, because if they'll turn their back on you for something this stupid and inconsequential, then it's a space full of shallow people who hold no loyalities/faith in their friends. Those are the worst types of people, because you can be best friends with them for *decades* and the moment you do something wrong, they drop you like all that time together meant nothing to them. You really don't need people like that in your life.
But also, that's why *good* fandom spaces have rules against drama and rules against talking about unrelated topics (which... someone's views on shipping and the entire pro- vs. anti-shipping debate *are all definitely unrelated stuff)* so if this is a good fandom space, nothing bad will happen and even if the antis try something, people will take your side, since it's *the antis* who are bringing up unrelated stuff for the purpose of causing drama.
So here's to hoping this other fandom space is a really good one (or that you find a new really good one after leaving this bad one, if it's actually a bad one) and that the antis won't be able to touch you anymore!! They got one whole chance to dogpile you already, so now they better be satisfied and fuck off and leave you alone, because they don't deserve to be anywhere close to you anymore!! Find your happiness in better places with better people - and honestly, screw those antis!!
What a group of fucking no-life asshole degenerates. I’m so sorry this happened OP, I’m sending a ton of virtual hugs and love your way.
https://i.redd.it/nufwgr64oz9d1.gif
What happened wasn't your fault. Antis love waiting for people to say just one "wrong" thing to justify swarming them with hate. They are responsible for their own actions, not you.
There is no reason for you to stop enjoying content you like just because of these jerks. They don't get to choose when or if you lose interest in a show, game, etc. Only you have that right. These people don't know you and they never will.
So go on and keep watching what you want, playing what games you want, and block and ignore anyone who tries to bully you away.
Thank you for the kind advice. It all comes down to accepting that there are negative people out there without letting them ruin the spaces you feel comfortable in, right?
It's easier said than done, I realize now. I just kept seeing it happen and stayed quiet for fear of becoming a victim myself. Now that it happened, I understand how long those attacks affect people.
Reading all you lovely people's comments how it wasn't my fault and that I should keep on enjoying what I like - it helps a lot. I'm getting calmer and more relieved the more comments I read and answer. Thank you so much for helping out a stressed one.
If you did a wrong thing it would be going to the wrong people (and it's still not your fault like a murder victim trusting their murderer - you didn't know) - them being Antis means shit they could have listen to you and even if not they could have speak with you gently and say that it makes them uncomfortable and not attack you - that's pure bully behaviour
If they go harass you report them and then block them, if you're worried about them finding your ao3 you can turn on moderating comments
Sending virtual hugs dude. It's not your fault they're fucking bullies. You don't deserve that bullshit. I respect that you tried to argue with them, even if it was futile. I would've done the same. Everyone feels an obligation to defend themselves. You'll find better friends :)
Sorry, it’s like we are in a civil war and you can’t tell who’s who until a battle starts, and suddenly the room gets chopped up by people who take this shit way too seriously.
Oh no, I’m so so so sorry this happened to you. If you’d like a virtual hug, I’ll gladly offer one! I hope you can take some time today for yourself to self soothe, either with a favorite movie or snack or something like that, something to take your mind off of everything for a little while.
I read in another comment that these people were adults, and that’s just shameful. Please know that there are lots of spaces that you’ll be welcomed with open arms (like here!) and I hope you’ll find another group soon to chat with and enjoy your fandom time.
Others have already said this, but nothing you could have said would have changed their minds about you. Antis move the goalposts for their own benefit; they make up shit and pick and choose what to believe for their own benefit, only to make themselves look more righteous. You’ve done nothing wrong. I mean, you’re not the one here lobbing serious accusations and dog piling others, right? Take comfort in that, and know there are really real friends out there for you!
Another virtual hug, just for good measure! <3
I'm so sorry you went through that! Especially since they were people you appreciated a lot, I can't imagine how hard this must be for you.
I'm also very sorry if this comes off as mean, but you really should be more observant of the info they provide in their bio. For everyone's sake, if it says "proship dni" and you're a proshipper, block immediately! Don't engage or, literally, do not interact! Ironically it's a very similar concept to "Don't like, don't read".
Oh honey. I’m so glad that this subreddit can help ease you through a jarring experience like this. This is tough for anyone and I’m so sorry it happened to you. I know the feeling of vining so well with someone until they suddenly see you as less than human.
None of this is your fault. You have been emotionally brutalized by these people and that is never your fault. Take some time to grieve the loss of a space you once belong to and then shore up your defenses. We get shaken up so we can rebuild stronger.
It's not your fault that they're narrow-minded bullies, OP. Just mass block everyone of them on AO3 and your other social medias. Report them if they try to harass you on any platform. Don't let them dictate your online experience. At the end of the day, they're just randos on the internet. They don't really know you and you don't really know them. The beauty of the internet is that you always have the power to distance yourself from almost anything and everything, so do that and let their brains rot in their own stupidity.
Do not mind their attempts at being the morality police. The notion of "proship" is ridiculous and trying to gauge a person's character and judge their interests by it is even more stupid. What constitutes as a problematic ship is incredibly subjective because it varies from each individual's personal beliefs and opinions. There is no tangible nor reasonable basis to judge a person by such measures. It's just people trying to be superior to others. Some people really think that they have to have what they perceive to be the moral highground to be able to ship made up people and make up bullshit faults to invalidate a ship they don't like. It's so baffling like is this some manifestation of catholic guilt or something? Either way, OP, don't let this bullshit stop you from enjoying what you want to enjoy.
The truth about antis is that they do not give one single sincere shit about real child sexual abuse victims. At all. That's a thin cover for the fact that what they really enjoy is having a "justified" target they can abuse freely at will themselves. They have their own kink, their own perversion, and that's the raw unbridled joy they take in witch-hunting. They feel superior because their kink isn't strictly sexual, but if you look at how unhinged they become, it's clearly a kink of some sort. They get high on cruelty, and the sort of mob-action feeling when they egg each other on.
It's no coincidence that false accusation of pedophilia is a tactic used both by antis and the Religious Right who hate queer folks. The two are very closely related and they use so much of the same rhetoric it's hard to tell them apart. (and indeed I think the Venn diagram looks more like a partial eclipse than two separate circles)
But in practice this makes it more difficult to find and help victims of the real thing. 95% of the time in fandom when I hear someone being called a pedophile, I assume it's more of this shit. Boy who cried wolf. It has no impact anymore. So when there's someone who it turns out actually was inappropriate with real-life children, that seems so vanishingly rare in a sea of melodramatic lies over ship wars.
Offering hugs with everyone else. Shit situation to be in, sorry you had to deal with it.
I was in a leaning-anti server for a while and almost got caught up in all of it before they conflated "anti-censorship" (which is how I explain my views to people; I don't bother with pro- and anti- given the way definitions for those can be highly subjective and tend to get stronger reactions) with "want actual literal children harmed" and that, among other things, got me the hell out of there.
I wish I had more advice for dealing with the fallout, but honestly... they're looking for reasons to get after people and too caught up in their puritan knight-in-shining-armor crusade so they can feel powerful and in control. If not this, they'd have eventually found something else and honestly, I feel they'd have eventually figured it out anyway.
This isn't your fault. There are things that could have been done differently, yes, but you were trying to be honest with people you considered friends. Again, this is *not your fault.*
I tend to just disengage when I see anti bullshit on the horizon at all. If a comment is made about it, I mention censorship being a slippery slope (and often weaponized, and how it will not stop at the "gross" stuff because again, the goal is not protecting children, it's policing other people) and if they don't genuinely want to listen, I block mercilessly.
Here's hoping it dies down soon, and I hope you can again find your stride and a place in which you're comfortable, with people who won't harass you over this.
i’m so sorry that happened. Have a hug 🤗
many others have already offered wonderful advice, so I’ll just say give them some time. They’ll tear themselves apart eventually.
I'm sorry that happened to you, Those people have 0 Media literacy and should be ashamed for assuming things about you without even giving you any chance to speak.
I find it’s ridiculous that one of the main crusade for Antis are pedophilia and child-rape. I have dived into so many of the dead doves fics, and tbh I just don’t see that type of content unless actively seeking
I’m sorry that happened to you. Unfortunately people are often rewarded or at least not punished for foregoing nuance. People can be very reactive and volatile, and this intersects with their moral indignation and sense of self-righteousness. In real life this is generally tempered somewhat. I don’t know if it’s a guy thing, but I know in my circle if someone were to impugn your character over false accusations of that nature it could be grounds for physical confrontation. It might help to remind yourself that they’re probably only being so zealous for internet points. Imagine those “friends” of yours spouting off to people in real life about how they’re pedophiles or approve of child rape because they like a popular series or some pair in it. I imagine they’d be less likely to be so aggressive about it. People can afford to dogpile like that online because there’s little chance of retaliation and no need to provide any evidence to back up their claims. So on top of being idiots, they’re also cowards.
Your only mistake was trying to explain yourself and have a discussion after they pounced on you. Think about the things they said to you, what they accused you of and what it was based on. Do they sound like reasonable, well-adjusted people you can have a mature conversation with? In the future you should be better able to sense when it’s futile and when to cut your losses. I really am sorry though. Don’t take it to heart.
Leave the group. People will disagree with you and you shouldn't make it your problem. If they're active in spaces that you like, what are the chances that an entire space is tolerant of antis? They will fight them if they attack you and you act cool. If you react to their advances to make you uncomfortable, you're letting them win. Either don't respond to them or show minimal interest in hearing their opinions. It's easy as that. So far you've lost nothing but your time hun
I’m so sorry you have to go through something like this. Please accept a virtual hug from this stranger.
I know it may sound like empty words but any person readily willing to believe those loudly screaming antis without trying to get to know you or hear your side of things is someone you wouldn’t have fun being around anyway. Still, as others have already mentioned, it may be helpful to simply take a break from social media and other places where you may be exposed to their vitriol.
If I were you, I’d put all fics in the anonymous collection for the time being, enable comment moderation, and disable guest comments. Or disable all comments. If you don’t want to disable them, you may consider turning off emails about comments so you don’t get anxiety from AO3 emails. Make all your bookmarks private (if you haven’t yet). Minimise your chances of seeing what they have to say to you or about you.
Most importantly, please try to stay calm and check out [this manual](https://onlineharassmentfieldmanual.pen.org/), which may help you navigate your situation.
Wishing you all the best! I hope it’ll just blow over and you’ll make new friends who aren’t assholes that turn on you after a single sentence (those aren’t real friends). Stay strong. 🫂
I'm with you on that. They got to know me before, just this topic had them change their whole view of me as if I'd gone out and committed crimes in real life.
It's depressing, thinking your best friends would turn on you over legal fiction.
I feel like this is another illogical "coming out" problem that shouldn't even exist in the first place. It's weird needing to hide that you accept whatever law accepts. Or even like what law accepts.
I feel like they fight us over common reasoning
*Why* do you love people who would hate you over that? That makes no sense to me. If you can't trust them with the truth about your harmless hobby, they're just not good friends.
As others have said, people who will drop you over this aren't your friends.
Please be careful, you deserve to surround yourself with people who love and accept you.
Very very gently those aren't your friends. Ask yourself why you want to tiptoe on eggshells and not share things you like and are excited about because you might lose these people?
I guess that’s easy to say in theory, but they *are* still my friends.They’re good people, usually very understanding, people I will always enjoy being around. I know I would’ve thought very similarly just a couple years ago, and I doubt my friends would go as far to harass me over it, but they wouldn’t want to be friends with someone who, in their eyes, is a pedo apologist or incest apologist or a rapist apologist or abuser apologist or whatever. And I understand that, if I thought pro shipping made someone those things, I wouldn’t hang out with those people, I *would* feel revolted. The problem is, it definitely doesn’t. But it’d be near impossible to convince them otherwise, and if I failed to do so, they’d probably hate me. That’s not a conversation I want to risk.
If they harassed anyone, I would draw the line, but I am more or less okay to keep things the way they are. For me, fanfiction is a small hobby in the grand scheme of things and my tastes are (mostly) usually pretty mainstream, so I’m “safe”. I think it’s a selfish sentiment I hold, but it’s the truth.
Very very gently those aren't your friends. Ask yourself why you want to tiptoe on eggshells and not share things you like and are excited about because you might lose these people?
I’ve started seeing “proshipping” in YouTube videos now. Outside of Tumblr.
It’s breaching containment and I’m very concerned the wrong types of people are going to seize this to ban books/websites - and get applauded all the way.
>I’m very concerned the wrong types of people are going to seize this to ban books/websites
I think that's part of why it started in the first place, honestly. It'd be way too much of a coincidence that antis 'suddenly' got big as the political atmosphere in Western countries sharply took a turn towards conservatism and anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric. I've actually seen some posts that connected antis to the rise in TERF activity, unfortunately didn't save those posts though.
Queer teenage antis are useful idiots for fascists, that's all.
A few years ago I had this exact same thing happen and I was the creator of my group. Still got booted after being dogpiled. Ive talked about it before but if I could afford therapy, I would get it.
Just know that: losing your cool? I did that too. Its what they live for. It is NOT your fault. They are stuck in their ways and you cannot persuade them an inch. Just leave that group or fandom and find new friends.
I'm sorry this happened to you. Internet hate mobs are no joke and I can't stand them on principle. Keep writing your work about whatever brings you joy. People who do things like this don't matter.
Not your fault 🫂 That’s what they want you to think, and they’re so cruel and shaming and insidious with their rhetoric it really *can* make you feel like it’s you, not them. I was bullied HARD out of a group of people not even for fiction, and it's so shocking and virulent you don't even know how to defend yourself in the moment. Those people are bullies who are thrilled to have any chance to do so, which is why they spend no time or energy helping the causes they claim to champion. They don't actually care. Anyway, this is my way of saying don't let them ruin fandom writ large for you. For example, you have us and this sub, we've got your back. 🧡
It is NOT your fault. They chose to attack you. You didn’t attack them, you just stated your personal views. Yes, it was perhaps not the best forum in which to make those views public, but you have a right to your opinions, just as they have a right to theirs. For most people, labels like being pro-ship or anti have become integral to our sense of self, our sense of where we belong in the world, of how the world *is* and anyone or anything that challenges that sense is seen as an attack on the very fabric of reality.
OP, I'm really sorry for what have happened to you. anties unfortunately aren't reasonable, and talking with them really isn't worth it. I hope you are doing better now!
(Ah, I should've just edited my reply. Sorry, still kinda clumsy on Reddit.)
I was doing better for about 10 hours? Overnight and most of the day. Then they proved your message by getting more unbelievable in their actions today.
Inoriginally wrote it as a reply, then figured updating my post is probably more logical.
Thank you for your concern, it is a small soothing at the right time.
I just read your update, and I am so sorry. I feel so bad for you. This behavior is disgusting and unacceptable. I want you to know that if someone randomly told me that someone did something without proof, I wouldn’t believe them. I’d also be side-eyeing the people spreading such rumors. That’s high school mean girl behavior that I would want no part of.
It might be best to step away from social media for a bit. Or create new socials that these people don’t have access to. Protect your mental health. These people suck.
Thank you so much. It shocked me deeply, realizing they actually showed up in world chat as a group to scream "pedophile". To be so public about their hunt against a person was a jarring experience.
I also thought people would react irritated, so it hurt doubly seeing them giving thanks for the public attack. Especially from someone I was friendly with for quite some time. Even knowing they're obviously not good persons to interact with if they believe public attacks so easily, it still took a toll on my safety impression of social contacts. Because who else are they turning easily without me knowing?
Since then, more happened. So I decided to edit the Update, also to make it easier to understand. I fear I might have to add to it over time if I don't give up on those game servers and Discord account. It just doesn't seem fair to be forced into starting over and giving up longtime accounts just to be safe from harm.
I'm so sorry this happened to you, this people are in the wrong no matter the perspective and it is definitely their fault, not yours.
Even IF they were right when it comes to proship vs anti, ganging up and attacking someone is not the way to go, let alone saying an innocent person supports child rape.
In some fandom spaces, I do tend to end up more often than not in the anti side of the algorithm because I silence/block ships that I don't like or make me uncomfortable, but, honestly, the moment the way the antis I talk to go from 'this person ships X if you wanna block them' to 'this person supports the existence of X, let's harass them' it's an automatic unfollow and block from me.
In the ideal world, both sides would be able to coexist by just not interacting much with each other and keeping discussions civil, since the debate about fiction is not one in which one side should be wishing death on the other, logically, but sadly that is not the world we live in.
I'd recommend you take a break from either social media or this specific Fandom space so you can recover. Remember it is NOT your fault and try to find new people to chat with. After you're feeling better, it might be better to have a small explanation text of the situation and why you are a "whatever floats your boat proship" in case once you go back to that Fandom space they try to get even more people against you.
Hope you'll feel better soon. Fuck those assholes
Upon reading your update, I strongly urge you to collect what information you can and report them for harassment. I also suggest you don't give them any kind of win. Don't leave the game due to their bullying. Show them that their tactics will not chase you away. Stand firm and don't budge. Ignore and don't respond to anything they say.
Honestly, I agree with what others have said. After this update, you might have legal grounds to sue them for harassment. Which *could* actually lead somewhere if your country makes it so these assholes *have to be outed to law enforcment for their actions* because some countries do force online platforms into doing that.
But what damn near *every* country will grant you is a Cease & Desist that you can then enforce on servers, so the server's admins will be forced to remove the troublemakers. Not a real solution, because they can obviously rejoin servers under new names, but what they are doing is harassment and that is illegal in just about every country *and* on just about every website.
So if you have the energy, then report them (especially for misinformation, if you can, because that's defamatory stuff they're saying about you) as relentlessly as they are harassing you. They're in the wrong, they are absolute scum and they don't deserve to take what's fun away from you.
And I can *promise* you the only reason people "thanked" them for raising attention on that server was because these thankers were *messaged privately beforehand with lies about you and then asked "hey, when we state this openly on the server, can you show your support somehow, maybe by thanking us or whatever?"* and not because they actually agreed with their stupid claims from the first moment they heard of these claims.
EDIT: Also, that fellow friendly player can report those people for in-game griefing. That's generally taken pretty seriously by devs, because it destroys a game's whole atmosphere/appeal.
What they're doing is targeted, cruel and not even true. That's harassment to a tee. I hope your country has *extensive* laws for this (which you'll generally even find online, under some version of: online harassment/cyber stalking/cyber bullying) that will absolutely *ruin* these little fuckers.
wow anti ship nazis, get out of there!
never let ANYONE dictate what you like, don't even talk to them, don't engage.
your sanity, your safety, your emotions are the TOP most priority
not what others think, not what others want AND NOT WHAT OTHERS DEMAND
antishippers by wikipedia:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ship\_missile](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ship_missile)
https://preview.redd.it/my93kgtzny9d1.png?width=1166&format=png&auto=webp&s=671f3e5e630ad94efe7315889f15a218f1fee476
I've had people give me shit for being pro-ship before (although I don't actually like most problematic stuff myself,) but I don't have a large supply of spare fucks to give so I just tell them to fuck off.
Hugs 🫂🫂🫂
I'm so sorry it happened to you, you really can't tell if someone's a shitty anti until too late sometimes
Please take care of yourself, do things you love to try to distract yourself from the pain, it wasn't your fault and they're just shitheads
On a note I actually doubt they're really adults like you said in another comment, there's a lot of kids who fake their ages, including in anti groups, to access nsfw (follow priv accs of nsfw artists, either to consume their art or to find things to call them out for) or to look more mature in discussions, I don't think a whole group of ppl in their 20s could be this stupid
I just read your update. What a weird little cult these people run. Maybe one day they can find it in themselves to give more of a fuck about real people than fictional characters.
Hi, this is an automated response to make sure we're all on the same page about the definitions of proshipping and antishipping. There is often a lot of confusion about these terms and people get confused pretty frequently. Its always best to make sure we're all on the same page about what we are talking about. Anti-shipping/being an anti/being an antishipper/etc has a definition that has morphed a bit over time. Here is some history. Back in the 90's and early 2000's it mostly meant being against shipping in general or being against a specific ship. This was mostly used in specific fandoms/wasn't a pan-fandom term. Since the 2010's however, a pan-fandom definition did emerge and is the most common usage now. That definition is being *actively against certain ships or tropes that are deemed problematic or harmful in some way*. Note this does not mean being uncomfortable with reading a certain ship, trope, or problematic thing in a fanfiction or seeing fanart of a certain ship, trope, or problematic thing. It refers to *people who advocate for the banning, removal, or heavily hiding of that content that they don't want to see*. This has led to many harassment and doxxing issues in fandom spaces. Anyone from proship people they were arguing with, to random users who had written a "problematic" fanfiction and uploaded it to AO3, to anyone who so much as uses AO3 at all, have all been the subjects of these harassment problems. Conversely, proshipping/being a pro-shipper/being an anti-anti/etc, is a response term to the previously discussed antishipping. It's defined as being against antishipping (using the modern pan-fandom definition). Simply put, it means someone who is against censorship of content in fandom, against harassment and doxxing, and are of the opinion that *regardless of if they personally don't like a specific ship/trope/problematic thing, it has a right to exist and be enjoyed by those who do like that specific ship/trope/problematic thing*. Despite being against harassment, this side of the discourse has also had an issue with harassment on occasion. The subjects of that harassment have been people who self-identify as being an antishipper, or regardless of self-identification, someone who'sbeliefs match those of an anti-shipper. AO3 is generally considered to be a proship website with its foundation having been built on a stance of no censorship, and their rules explicitly not banning problematic content. For more info you can check the fanlore articles for [proshipping](https://fanlore.org/wiki/Anti-anti) and [antishipping](https://fanlore.org/wiki/Anti-shipper) Tl;dr: antishipping = wanting to ban problematic content/content they don't like proshipping = ship and let ship/don’t like don't read *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AO3) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s easier to bully a proshipper out of a space than it is to effect meaningful change for real people. I’m sorry.
Those are actually strong words. I guess keyboards warriors really holds true for them. Signal-boosting. Cussing me out and blocking me didn't help a single child. And they most likely don't remotely do as much in real life to protect children. At the end, stroking their own egos going "I cussed out a bad person" is all they crave.
"As much"? They don't do ANYTHING in real life to protect children, because to these types, online IS real life. The only thing they actively do to protect children is not rape them, presumably, and some antis can't even manage THAT much (the ones screaming the loudest about pedos, well... a lot of the time, it turns out to be projection/an attempt to throw people off their scent). I'm sorry you're going through this, OP.
I’m so sorry that happened to you, but it’s not your fault. Expecting people to be reasonable isn’t a huge ask. They sound young and immature. Hopefully, people with that mindset will grow out of it someday. It doesn’t change what they did or the way they treated you, but it’s maybe a silver-lining. I hope you’re doing okay. Have a hug from this internet stranger!
They were adults.. I guess for Fandom, 20s and 30s can still be young/immature if you've grown up very conservative. At least you're giving me hope they might change someday. If not for their opinions, then at least in how they treat people they disagree with. (And in reading comprehension..) Thanks for the hug, I very consciously hord all of your AO3 people's hugs right now. It's calming knowing I get some comfort after the ordeal.
Just remember. If it wasn't you, they would have found another witch. And they'll find another eventually now that you're gone. Just refuse to engage if they pop up elsewhere. Block, report for stalking/harassment, and move on. Rinse and repeat. They'll get tired more quickly with no fuel to add to the fire. If any of the approach you on the side? Ignore-- they may be baiting for a response so the others know who to attack again.
Thank you for your advice. It's a small relief thinking they may give up soon. It's just that they knew my AO3 name for several hours and might still have my account even after a name change if they saved one of my stories? They're also in a game I play and can see me daily in the chat, which makes me worry they might stick for longer. And I don't know who else counts to them. I have friends that might have gotten messages from them and I wouldn't be able to tell who's secretly feeding them private conversations. It's frightening for me.
If they harrass you in the game, take screenshots and send it to the game moderators/file a complaint for harassment. Also just ignore them. Again; any interaction will fuel the fire. I'd avoid having private/personal conversations with anybody you do not 30000 percent trust right now. I know it's hard; but honestly starting completely fresh is often easiest in this situation. Make fully new accounts for EVERYTHING. Document EVERYTHING- every scrap of harassment. Make a google doc, and save. It. ALL. Because when the chips fall and shit hits the fan, you can pull back to this and say, "This individual has been harassing me in multiple places since this date, and this time. These are the things said, and they have followed me to here-- What can be done?" You can also reference back to it to show other people; "This is what I have been dealing with. This is what I said that set it off; that I think fiction=fiction and does not affect reality. These are the usernames I am avoiding; be aware they may reach out to you.' If you have a solid timeline of events/a record to fall back on, it will save you having to re-explain things over and over-- you can just link the doc. For MMOs they likely won't be stupid enough to harass you in chats; as there are logs for ALL of that and anything they send you can be viewed by the moderation teams. Anything else? Screenshot, and write the date, time, and your experience as it happened.
i 100% agree that OP should be documenting everything. as someone who was stalked/harassed/doxxed online for about a year and a half, that is the main thing i wish that i had done more often.
There's a reason I never. Delete. ANYTHING. EVER. It's all evidence. Oh, you said I told you this via text three years ago, on this date at this time?? Well why don't we just cross-reference that in my phone! No worries-- I still have my phone from three years ago, just lemme grab the charger! :) Amazing how many people realize they 'must be mixing me with someone else'
Yikes. I assumed they were younger. My bad. Well, we all spend our lives learning and growing, or at least I like to believe so. Maybe they will look back on this with regret. Regardless, it’s not your fault and you shouldn’t have to deal with it. Don’t engage anymore. Protect your mental health.
Thank you. I got stuck on that for a lot of hours now because I couldn't handle not mulling it over. I definitely grew up to regret a lot of hurt I caused others, but I know a lot of people won't ever accept fault. Guess it's not on me to decide if they'll possibly change. The hurt happened and all I can do is find a good finish for worrying over it and move on to more positive things. There are billions of people in the world - this bunch just wasn't right for me.
I'm sorry. That's a horrible experience in every sense. Your "friends" are a bunch of bloodthirsty bullies with the critical thinking and common sense of an embalmed rodent. Neither their accusations nor opinions are worth as much as runny shit. None of that makes the harassment less distressing, but you've done nothing wrong in this scenario.
Thank you for being the aggressive voice cursing them out. I got so lost feeling threatened that having someone use foul language back at them feels like having an older sibling taking over and protecting me from further harm. I rationally know I'm not in the wrong, but I also feel like I am for not stopping it immediately, going "I don't condone children getting hurt" ? Yet as you say.. they wouldn't have accepted it anyway. I told them fiction isn't real life, but they're most likely stuck in that one bubble.
They wouldn't have listened to you no matter what you said. Their minds were made up, and they were going to burn a witch no matter what.
It certainly felt that way. They read "Proshipper" and spamed it like they just found out I'm a serial killer. I'm pretty sure there were at least 10 messages from just 4 people repeating "do you like adult x child?!" in the first 2 minutes alone. They were absolutely relentless, it was basically already decided that the answer was yes, and that it was all there was to me.
Yeah, people like that cannot be reasoned with.
People like that look for the smallest signs of someone being less than perfectly pure according to their standard. It's built into their mindset to monitor others for transgressions.
I'd 100% be ready and willing to be the crass voice of very, very furious reason on the behalf of you or anyone enduring this bullshit. I've seen the harm anti-shippers inflict on real people in the name of protecting fictional characters; it's revolting, especially when they go after users who are minors themselves. Don't blame yourself, even if it's easier said than done. As others have said and as you yourself know, nothing you said could've reached these shitheads. They are fundamentally bullies. They don't want to protect real children; if they did, fandom and fiction wouldn't be their choice of battleground. All they do is go on violent power trips tearing down people like you who end up in their maw, one way or the other. If you need to, don't hesitate to abandon your current socials and create entirely new accounts with no connection to your real identity or old accounts. I'd also recommend entirely avoiding friendships with puritan brats in the future; they can and will eat their own.
At the risk of sounding like a bitch, your "friends" sound like a group of spoiled children who lack any real problems in their lives and any perspective.
I guess they aren't called the "moral police" for nothing. It's weird to me how I knew I was the most mature in the group, yet didn't see the red flags that they're a flock of people that'll act as a group if someone crosses them. Luckily, we didn't know each other for long, but I still received a pretty big blow to my feeling of safety around people.
Its funny how the "moral" folk are the least *ethical* folk m - and by funny, I mean enraging
Yeah, not funny as in "ha ha" funny as in... weird.
It sounds like they did this *because* you're the most mature in the group
Unfortunately, this is how people end up switching sides. It’s not a matter of *if* you’ll harassed by so called ‘friends’ but a matter of *when*. You can’t gain healthy friendships when you’re constantly walking on eggshells and living in fear of saying or shipping the ‘wrong’ thing. A lot of people who are antis or people who deem themselves neutral on the topic, often switch sides when shit like this happens because they finally see for themselves how horrible antis truly are. These people don’t care about anything besides making others miserable. They use abuse survivors as a cover up so they can be abusive to people who they deem worthy of it. As you mention, you provided evidence and tried to talk to them with logic, they don’t care about that and will continue to mindlessly throw accusations at anyone who disagrees with them because they have this ‘with me or against me’ mindset. It’s not your fault. You just need to find friends who don’t give a fuck and won’t care about what you like or don’t like when it comes to fiction. Hope you feel better soon :)
That’s what happened to me, I was always kind of mildly anti until I saw how awful antis acts online and how… *not* proshippers did. Ironically, the fact that proshippers were more chill made it so I actually was able to hear out their argument on the topic, unlike antis. Over time it became less of a “these people don’t make me feel like I’m walking on eggshells” thing and more of a “hey wait they’ve got a point” thing.
It changes for me. I am "neutral". Occasionally, "antis" are stupid to me, and I think: "It's not that deep," then I go onto this subreddit and think: "Move on." Both sides take to much pride in dumb ass labels on ship wars
Being accused of being a pedo is not a dumb ass label is a serious accusation.
I feel like you’re downplaying the issue—it’s not just ship wars. One group wants to throw serious, potentially life-altering accusations against people while the other group just doesn’t want to be harassed.
Thank you, that helped a lot. Logically I know all that, but having it happen to myself still threw me off the tracks. I met them in a game with typical underage characters like most of those games are nowadays, nothing sexual. I didn't even expect I was befriending a group of Antis. They openly talked naughty about the minor characters, shipped them, loved extremely problematic characters and sexualized them too. It's still confusing to me how they can do all that, then turn around and scream "pedophile" at someone who says they accept problematic topics in fictional media - because very obviously, THEY did, too. The whole fight hinged on "adult x child" so I guess that's how they protect themselves from accepting that they are very much Proshippers in the widely accepted definition of the word.
Antis tend to be hypocritical. They’ll do anything to save their own skin, and if that means ganging up on the one person with a brain, they’ll do it.
Sounds like they are hypocrites
Fuckin hypocrites.
It's not your fault. I'm sorry you met those people. Remember to block whoever you have to and protect yourself.
Thank you. I'm still working through the hurt, answering you wonderful people helps a lot. I tried securing my AO3 account at least, changing the name and blocking readers and commenters without an account to interact with my works. I'm just frightened they'll find ways to get to me again. It's probably nonsensical, as they were the ones who left. But I feel like I'm not safe with the friends I've left in the same spaces. I don't know who might've gotten a private message from them and I'm afraid it might start again with people I deemed safe. Blocking them then would still be after I got my trust broken again.
Ugh, antis. Yes, I'm gonna marry a carrot. I'm really sorry that happened to you. Antis aren't worth your time, let alone your tears.
John Oliver had a story where he married a cabbage.
That made me laugh, I remember that episode.
You know how it is. Say you're a vegetarian, say you're proship, same difference. People gonna peop.
You're right. "Stay in the environment that treats you kindly" It's on me to make sure the people I surround myself with align with my own morals of treating people friendly, even if we don't agree on topics.
That is horrible. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I understand your fears. Try to block and move on. They're a puritan cult that can't be reasoned with with logic.
It's what bothers me the most aside from not stopping it immediately or stepping out - I've read enough posts and comments from you lovely people here how they're puritan and won't accept logic, yet I tried to argue. It was definitely in vain - loss of time and peace of mind. They definitely won't listen and it was a loss for everyone involved.
Yeah never JADE. Justify Argue Defend Explain Because they'll counter with DARVO. Deflect/Deny Attack Reverse Victim and Offender. The best defence is do not engage. But you know rhat now abd you won't waste your time on awful people. Instead you can talk to the lovely folks here. _hugs_
I'm sorry to hear that you went through this... The thing about antis is that they can't even be friends with each other. Each anti has their own version of what is "proship" (*I wish people would stop misusing this label...*) and what isn't. So if you get them to reveal what ships they like, they can 100% start eating each other alive... They make 0 sense. It's whatever if they find certain ships wrong, but their actions do not add up to their own values. They can even have a "problematic" ship without even realizing it because they don't have a ship that goes under the typical tropes antis witch hunt. They are burying themselves by interacting with that side and they often learn sooner or later to at least be neutral. There's just too many people where they have a ship they adore become problematic overnight because of one slight retconning in the series...
Proship absolutely needs to be accepted for the definitions it truly holds. I've read a bunch of people stating that Antis are a pretty small group that's just extremely loud, but it feels like they're causing Proship to mean something bad for new people entering the fandom spaces. I just can't.. they actively sexualized extremely violent and problematic underage characters, shipped them with each other, but they draw the line at adult x child. They literally shipped characters attacking each other, threatening murder, wounding people, killing animals - that seemed okay. Their definitions of "problematic" are just so far out of anything that makes sense in my head. I guess that was why I didn't expect them to turn out as a mob of Antis.
But don't you ship a "couple" where ab adult rapes a child? I mean, the one thing is to read about rape as we read about crimes and another to read it as a love story
My sibling in Astolat you literally watch House of the Dragon.
Please shut up. Fiction is fiction. OP just shared a harrowing story about being harassed by people and you come here to harass them some more? Such gross behavior of you.
So, author did promote rape and pedophilia and thinks it's fine and you do support them
No. Fuck off. Writing about something is not 'promoting' anything if the intention to promote isn't there.
Typical "proship" response. Shut up and sympathize with me after i was scrutinized for liking a ship where an adult rapes a child
1) Y'all antis will use 'this is pedophilia' and 'this is rape' to describe an 18-year-old being in a relationship with a 16-year-old. Without any additional context, I'll assume you're being ridiculous. 2) Yes, it is in fact fiction, and many people who have trauma relating to this topic 'romanticize' it in fiction in order to process their own experiences. 3) Idiots get blocked. Stop fucking harassing OP.
You know, Daenerys is 14 in ASoIaF. Stephen King wrote a child sex orgy in It. But I have never seen antis foaming at the mouth at those big names nearly as much as I see the vitriol against random fanfic authors who aren't doing it for profit.
Oh, they absolutely do. It's just that the authors have support from fellow creators who recognise fiction from reality, and they have the numbers to not give a shit about a vocal minority of a mob. Unfortunately, smaller/indie writers and fandom members often lack such industry protections. At best, they'll get onto their soapbox on [insert platform here] and preach to the flock, while everyone else ignores their church building, and then find something else to get angry about.
It's fiction. Nothing more. You need to worry about real children, not make believe ones.
Eroticised and romanticized noncon, with or without the underage aspect, is a common trope. The framing of the story has no bearing on what content is or isn't acceptable. Someone writing a love story featuring an adult and a teen doesn't mean they condone statutory rape, just like someone who writes a violent revenge fantasy framing the protagonist as a hero isn't condoning wanton murder.
Actually, no. There's a difference between showing rape or pedophilia like a part of reality, while you can see why the abuser is a bag guy he/she is. It's another story where you're trying to portrait it as a love story, showing that the victim is actually okay I mean, I understand that for example omegaverse is a big rape fantasy where "omegas" are just how misogynistic men see "perfect women" who you can rape and they will love it. There's probably some kind of explanation why people like this type of fics. But I think it's better to admit what exactly you like and not just acting like a victim.
Being harassed over fiction, targeted and ganged up upon, is never okay. OP is a victim because they were unfairly targeted for no reason. You should stop trying to trivialize their unfortunate encounter.
It's fiction. No real child is being harmed.
Why do you guys view "antis" (hate this word) as some sort of evil enigma? Like my god the tribalism is insane on both sides
Because they kinda can be evil at times when they're defending what they think is moral. When we say antis, we mean the people who make their discomfort an inconvenience to everyone else rather than curating their own experiences. There's a difference between stating why a pair makes you uncomfortable in your own post and villianizing others for your discomforts in their territories. You can be critical of a ship dynamic and still be proship. It's when you start censoring and attacking others for having a different list than you is when you become an anti. Op was literally bullied out of her group over a misunderstanding of her irl stances. What I said in my comment is that because of how quick antis are to jump on someone, they aren't unified like they think they are, and because each is so different, they can tear apart their own group if they found out they disagreed with each other. People with "non problematic" interests aren't the same as antis, who purposely act as an inconvenience based on their own worldviews. Some antis are relatively relaxed while others literally try to kill people....
Wait WHAT? An anti tried to kill someone over this shit?
Usually in the form of suicide baiting, but it starts with mass death threats, trying to get you fired from your job, someone sneaking needles in a cookie at a convention some time back, etc. They're very rare, but they're out there.
Because antis are a symptom of encroaching puritanical conservatism - look up the FF.net purges and why they happened, for example. It always starts with "banning only problematic content" and then the goalposts shift to "problematic content includes queer people because children shouldn't be groomed into being gay".
Antis are typically teenagers who know nothing about the world yet still try to enforce their idea of "morality" onto strangers. Most harassment in fandoms come from antis. There is no excuse for attacking people over fiction.
They sound like exhausting children who need to get off the internet.
If it's any consolation, even the best explanations don't help. With this sort of person, you're put into a position where you need to shrug and say "yup I'm a horrible person. Better phone up the vatican, send out the old priest and young priest about it." Which isn't easy to do by any means. It sucks. This is just a special type of person who needs a villain for all their own "bad" feelings, and they'll jump through whatever mental hoops they need to in order to rid themselves of that sensation. They jump to pedophilia, because it's the strongest thing they can think of. Like purposefully going for maximum insult straight out the gates. It's not you. I hope things clear up for you soon; these people are a real problem.
Thank you so much. Your words are surprisingly soothing, although I can't exactly put my finger on why. The exorcism reference is amazing, it hugs my horror loving heart. And yes, rationally I understand that pedophilia is the strongest they can go for. I wonder if they failed with other topics, as children are the soft spot in every society and them not being safe can rile up almost every person.
I'm glad it helps! I've dealt with people like this offline, and I feel like no real thought goes into their reactions. They jump to whatever the worst thing is they could possibly dream of and start pointing. And it's like, they'll goad people into arguments and they know they can't really emotionally handle them, and then they'll just explode all over everyone and try to burn every bridge they've ever built. Every time. The frustrating thing is that antis found a commonality amongst each other in that habit and now move around like roving bands of emotional terrorists, just accusing absolute strangers of being complete monsters every time they stub their toe or poke a sleeping bear. It can feel really raw now, but it gets better. And too, like yeah, avoiding shitty people is advisable, but it's really hard when you have a group of people who essentially go looking for trouble and act like the world's most depressing Jack-in-the-box--just ready to pop on out with harassment. There's no way you could've known. Keep yourself safe/well, and I hope there are spots in the fandom that are still comforting. <3
I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience, but this is NOT your fault. As much as this hurts now, you ultimately dodged a bullet if "let's team up and bully them to the point of tears" is their no. 1 response to someone having a different opinion from them. Don't let it ruin your enjoyment of the game and fandom in question, they are only a miniscule part of it, even if they may be a loud one. While I don't know which game it is about, I can't think of any that don't have a diverse userbase with people of all walks of life and all sorts of differing opinions. People who surely deserve your company more than a bunch of bullies. Your stance is absolutely a reasonable one, and from what it sounds like, you had ample evidence to back it up. Maybe the effort was wasted on them, but often antis are quite young and/or inexperienced with media in general and DO grow out of it in due time, and maybe after the dust settles, some may eventually start doubting the group pressure mentality of "everything we disapprove of must not exist" and even remember some of the arguments you showed them today. Still doesn't change how you were treated though, and that isn't acceptable no matter how someone feels about the topic in question. So, what now? I'd say treat yourself to something you enjoy today, here is your [virtual hug]™ 😉 and look for more tolerant friends in your fandom eventually. There are often discord groups and the like that are quite chill about these things. Avoid people with "proship DNI" in their bio, that's always a red flag. Moving foward, you can disable guest comments and turn on comment moderation if you are worried about getting harassed by them on AO3. If they try something on social media, feel free to report them for harassment, you don't owe them any kindness if they didn't show you any.
The game is pretty new and niche, so it's still a small user base that's not very active in chat. I'm known there, also known to help out a lot if newbies have questions. So it's doubly troublesome for me. I really enjoyed the game so far, but I'm afraid to enter chat again or interact with players. I don't feel like their opinion about my claims will change, though. Children are a delicate topic, so whatever you state might not ever be acceptable even after years, because "it's still children". I feel like pedophilia is the very niche mini topic in fandom that they're absolutely sure can't ever be reasoned about. At least there might be hope they'll realize the vast majority of content aside from that that exists. I disabled readers and commenters without account, though, so they'd have to show face. Aw, thank you for the kind hug. Hah, I managed to let the whole day go by stressing about it and answering kind people here. You lovely ones showed up in way bigger numbers than I would've ever anticipated, so thank you for picking up one who fell over for a bit
Antis will ALWAYS eat their own, choose better friends
They're 20 to 30 and doing the anti cult bs? They need hobbies. To get a life, one of their own! How sad their lives have to be if they're up in arms twisting words like that. Forget them. Forget their sad pathetic whimpering and whining. They wanna waste breath getting upset over things that aren't issues then that's on them. The fainting couch and pearls to clutch are over there away from people so the antis can stop causing a scene and making an ass of themselves.
It is not your fault. But that's antis for you. Now, realise, if a rape victim had admitted they write rape stories to cope with their trauma, they'd done exactly the same to them. Do you really want to be acquainted with people who would attack you at the drop of a hat just because of fictional media? People you'd have to tiptoe around all the time just to avoid asking for **tolerance?** That's how bad things happen in the world. People start aggressively fighting for censorship and others stand idly by.
These weren't friends. Full stop. These were people pretending to be your friends. Real friends don't take 'i don't care what you ship it's none of my business' as anything bad. I'm so sorry you were horribly attacked be these awful immature people. They are what is wrong with fandom and they are awful awful bullies.
It's kind of ironic that they're after you for being a "bad person", because they are the real scourge of the internet: bullies. People who hurt others for fun who do it in a mob because they're small and cowardly on their own. This proship thing is just a cover to let them do that without feeling bad about themselves. Sorry this happened to you, it's not your fault, it's theirs. Unfortunately getting attacked hurts, even when you know the other party is in the wrong. I hope you'll be able to separate the shitty actions of shitty people from the things that you love, but absolutely no pressure--taking care of yourself however you need to is the most important thing. ❤️
So sorry that happened to you! ❤️ as much as antis like to act like they have the moral ground, bullying still isn’t exactly…ethical? Morally correct. Strange how their mental gymnastics work. You do you, block if you need to and you can always find better friends than that. Much luck and love to you.
Weird how they treat fictional characters like they’re real people, but doxxing and harassing living, breathing people is fair game.
Antis have no friends, just situational allies. They'll drop anyone like a hot potato no matter how close the moment they suspect something's "immoral". I'm sorry this happened to you. You didn't deserve to be harassed and repudiated like that. All you can do now is block them and be more careful with whom you interact. With antis, there's never enough caution.
hugs hugs hugs
Your “friends” are addicted to the feelings of self-righteousness and satisfaction that they get from punishing someone they see as their enemy. It is impossible to reason with them because if they stop believing that they are right, they lose the huge emotional high that comes from confirming that they are good and in-group by driving away an interloper. If it’s any comfort, it was never going to last, even if you never said anything. Cliques like that are doomed to eat their own, and there’s no other way for them to be. If you look back at the group in another year or so, it’s very likely they will all hate each other as much as they hate you now. Still a bad feeling though, I know! Try to find some new friends who are a lot more relaxed and you’ll have a better time.
Find a penny. Imagine it cut into sixteenths. One sixteenth of a penny is worth more than their opinions.
As someone who has been receiving a ton of harassment lately because of a similar situation to the point of having a full blown mental breakdown I seriously feel this Stay strong, don’t let people like this get to you <3
Fuck, my heart goes out to you. It’s one thing getting this bullshit from anons and a whole other thing being shamed and rejected by people you considered friends and whose opinions you valued. You are not weak or wrong for getting upset. Feel sad, angry, afraid, whatever it is you feel. You have a right to. Some years ago I left the religious cult I grew up in, and I know the lingering shame of self-righteous assholes talking shit about you and your character. That’s how these people get their existential rocks off: creating a fake world where they’re better than others for [insert reasons here].
I’m sorry that that has happened! That’s why I avoid anyone with “proship dni” in their profile because it doesn’t matter how ‘nice’ they appear, they will turn into blood thirsty fandom policing hounds that will ruin your life over the slightly bs. I don’t wanna persaid to do anything brass, but just block them. It’s not worth it if they are willing to attack you severely for a slip up.
I’ve started just trauma dumping on any antis that come for me. Like, you have issues with CP being portrayed in media? Well I had issues with being molested but look at me cope now!
My toxic trait is that I have no CSA trauma and I don't write dark/copefic but I will absolutely invent some on the spot to make antis feel bad.
A few years ago, when I'd just turned 18 and was still very active in the My Hero Academia community, I encountered my first anti where they tried bashing me for shipping characters from the show and how that made me a pedo. I told them I'm a survivor of being SAd by a family member during my childhood and told them how much it hurt me they would compare me to the man that did that to me, however indirectly, and their response was "it's just a joke" I tried asking them what part of accusing people of being pedos is funny and they blocked me. Anyways, all this to say these people don't really care about logic, they just want to feel like they have some kind of moral high ground, and the only way you'll get under their skin isn't through making sense, only through making their actions seem more morally reprehensible in their own eyes.
My Hero Academia shippers can be fucking demonic, man. This is why my OTP for the franchise is CanonxOC. They can get pissed all they want. I'm really sorry that happened to you. Please try to remember it's because of MHA's fanbase being young-leaning and thus immature.
I’m so, SO, sorry this happened. I’ve been dogpiled by antis before and had to purge my old accounts after being harassed and accused of supporting real life pedophilia and beastiality. It’s disgusting how quick these fools are to antagonize people so quickly over FICTIONAL things, not to mention the hive mind mentality. You’d think they’d go and channel all their energy into helping or at least advocating for actual, living victims of CSA; nope, it’s the non-sentient pixels on a screen that need saving, apparently. Please don’t let them bully you off the internet. It’s what they want. Don’t let these assholes defile your passion for writing. It’s useless to pander to them or try and reason with them. Believe me, I’ve tried. Keep doing what you’re doing and if you know any of their handles, block them liberally. Before you do anything, take some time for yourself. Breathe. Know that you’re not in the wrong here. And know you always have a safe space here :)
Thank you for your kind words and explanations. I'm sorry it happened to you too. You seem like such a strong and intelligent person, so I get the impression I want to become as strong as you are. I love the wording of "it’s the non-sentient pixels on a screen that need saving". They argue that fiction causes reality, I guess. But countless studies have proven otherwise. Even worse: they want to avoid pedophilia in fiction to spread to real life, yet are by their logic okay with violence and murder spreading to real life. Because that's exactly what characters they cheered on. And the character they hated got written violence from them, too. I know you're right about them not ever accepting anything I'd do and it shouldn't bother me. It's the fact that I've seen people post harassment comments they received for their fics, and that I'm not sure if they're still able to find mine. I fear it might start again there. Even if I block them then, the hurt will have happened again. Thank you for advising me to calm myself and know that I'm safe here. Rationally I know that, but seeing it written by you lovely people kinda makes my emotions get the message, too.
I’m glad I helped you feel at ease. True, sometimes these idiots will try and seek people out to harass to an extensive point, but the best advice I can give is just to ignore it unless they’re holding a mass harassment campaign against you or are trying to doxx you. They’re just a bunch of idiots who want to make problems out of nothing, and by giving them that attention and reacting to them, it makes them feel powerful and as if their words have merit. As for the “being okay with murder” thing, they, as well as society are more desensitized to murder and violence as it’s present in several kinds of mainstream media, whereas sex is more taboo and treated as something dirty and gross; this leads them to internalizing this mindset and projecting it into fiction. Ergo, murder and violence is totally okay, but problematic relationship dynamics are not, despite both being awful in real life.
Unfortunately, they jumped the border for mass harassment and doxxing. Showed up as a group in the game's world chat publicly defaming me to "warn people" and publicly giving out my AO3 username. There are also several signs they've gone and found me in another game server, private-messaged people and are trying to get me thrown out of social aspects of the game. Right now, they're camping the world chat, making it very clear they'll publicly scream "pedophile" again and give out my AO3 again if I show up. They also group attacked a player I'm friendly with in the fighting system, likely because he didn't react to the accusations, and openly cheered in world chat when one of them threw him off his high ranking. It definitely escalated into a wide-aimed witch hunt. And it's completely unhinged, especially for people who claim to be adults. Not that it seems new when it comes to antis. - I totally get the "desensitized" aspect of media, seeing how Game of Thrones is such an extreme hit. So I'm doubly frustrated with people openly cheering on and sexualizing violent underage characters, then turning around screaming pedophilia when you say that you accept whatever laws accept. Publicly loving and sexualizing psychologically questionable fictional minors and pairs seems totally fine - until the person is affiliated with fanfiction. Then it's suddenly "problematic" and "pedophilia". I had one argue with me they have a young daughter (the typical "fiction=reality so fiction isn't allowed to exist") and laws are different in every country - I missed my chance asking her if she'd love to have Afghanistan's laws be the ones we should obey, seeing how she seems concerned with progressive countries allowing negative topics in fictional media. Maybe she'd feel better having her child and herself be denied health care, education, and being chased and killed for being "too inappropriate" because her hair was visible in public. But I don't want to stoop as low as them, using victims as a "gotcha" card.
So, I have a question. Do you portrait pedophilia and rape as a problem or do you just make a love story where the victim fell in love, etc? Because that's 2 different approach and you do promote idea that pedophilia is a type of love and rape is a way to love - I don't think you're a victim here.
If you need fiction to tell you that a certain thing is wrong, then you have a problem.
I'll also add that the human race has been able to tell what things in fiction are okay and what aren't for longer than you have been alive. You don't need fiction to hold your hand and tell you "this is a bad thing, it's a big no no". Again if you need fiction to tell you when something is wrong to do irl, the problem lies with you.
Hey. It is not your fault. They are the problem. They are the ones whose minds are so twisted they think it's okay to attack other people for... not being judgemental asshats. I want you to know, as someone who has been in fandom for over twenty years, 'proshipping' has always been the general attitude. This anti shit is new and not something decent people are okay with. You keep doing you, OP. I'm really glad to have you in fandom. Don't let the antis get you down.
Thank you so much. It's my motto for being "Proship" and saying it's not okay to make it something it wasn't. We're about acceptance, even if it's negative topics in media. If tv shows and books can depict it, it should be okay for Fandom too. It's the "Proship = pedophilia" that got me so bad. I can't wrap my head around how someone can enter a library and scream at the 3 books depicting it in a "too positive way", like the whole library is to blame. It's hard to accept they attack a whole library and it's workers and guests for the few things that are hard to stomach. I'm in the space for over 20 years now as well.. those attacking people are vile. Stomping in and playing police. Thank you for your reassuring words. I guess I'll need some time to feel okay with publishing again, so I'll happily lurk for a bit and shower you amazing authors with kudos.
As others have said, this is not your fault. You shouldn't have to panic about having \*a normal opinion\* that is in line with literally the entire history of fiction. They don't care about facts, they only care about ganging up on people and trying to prove their moral superiority. Even if you had immediately disengaged, it sounds like they would have continued. You assumed these people were your friends, and that the friendship you had built would have them give you the benefit of the doubt. That's a really, really shitty thing to discover you're wrong about, and I'm sorry they did that to you. I know being ganged up on online can make you want to curl up and lay low until everything blows over, but these are the type of people who find glee in making others miserable. They lose if you refuse to be miserable. I hope you are able to find a way to enjoy the things you love without them, and hopefully there are spaces in your fandoms that are against harassment and open to all. Antis are a loud minority, but they \*are\* a minority. In the meantime, start using that block button freely.
These people are so obsessed with pedophilia and child rape fr Create a new account but leave the other one up. Don't let them convince you that this is a world ending event
Honestly if they didn't attack you for that, they'd have found something else to attack you for down the road. People like that are always looking for perceived moral high grounds and justification to dogpile on others - as evidenced by their inability to accept your explanation that you don't even vibe with those kinds of taboo subjects. Eventually you would have said the wrong thing about a completely different topic and they would have done the same thing. Had it happen to me a few years back - though it had nothing to do with proship or antiship. Watched it happen recently in a small fandom I'm apart of where an entire friend group broke apart because they were held together by the glue of shitting on other people who wrote Dead Dove. One member tried to dox and run another person off the site and caught shit for it from the wider community - then started shitting on their friends when they tried to tell them to apologize. These kinds of groups do it all the time regardless of their personal topic of contention. They cannibalize themselves and splinter until everyone is left bitter and angry. Because the core thread that binds them is diseased. It never, ever fucking ends well and I'm so sorry you got caught in the brunt of it. I know it doesn't help to hear that it would have always gone this way - but you need to understand that it isn't you, it's them. Your former friends sound like they are fundamentally broken people who crave drama in order to fill a void in their lives.
I'm vindictive, so i'd report the chat for bullying to whatever site it is. Young/Immature depends HIGHLY on what your culture you're coming from, what society you live in and lifestyle. doesn't matter they're "Adults". they're immature and you don't need them.
>And now I realize it's basically my fault. Bullshit. Other people's hate and ignorance is never your fault. It sucks and it hurts but you're better off without people like them in your life.
First of all, Jesus fucking Christ, I'm so sorry for what happened. But secondly... These are antis and they had no problem with attacking you. So I guess they would have no problem attacking anyone. So, I know it hurts now, but I think you'll soon feel better about not texting with them anymore. They were the bad guys and there were more of them. Seriously, fuck them. Also change the account, name, and block everyone. If you have their accounts on ao3 - remember that you can report them. Maybe even take a break from the fandom, I don't know, a few days with no interaction, just watching movies/reading books. Just rest.
Thank you. All you people's messages picked me up a lot. I understood the whole time that they were unfairly going against one person as a group without taking into consideration that I might need time to think and respond properly. It's frightening, experiencing it. I guess what I really want to take from this experience is understanding people better who go through this or worse attacks. It should really end, people shouldn't treat each other like that. I already went ahead and changed username and blocked interaction without accounts. I don't know if I was fast enough. And yes, taking a step back and indulging in media and activities that still feel safe is a very good advice. Thank you. I guess that's actually the best I can do now, or I'll keep on stressing myself out over something that can very well be over.
You either die an anti or you live long enough to see yourself become a proshipper. People either drop fanfiction or they grow more tolerant, it's the lifecycle of a shipper. Inevitably, everyone ends up shipping something problematic, sooner or later, and they switch teams. Don't let them get to you, they've not matured yet.
It's the ultimate uno reverse card to the common "die a hero, or live long enough to become a villain" saying? I don't even get the whole "problematic" thing. People shoot at each other in movies. Or cheat on each other. Or kill a child. The same applies to tv shows, books, art.. But when it's free fiction by mostly non-professionals, suddenly it becomes a problem.
Because fanfiction is an easy target. Even though it’s more mainstream than it used to be, people generally treat fanworks like they’re lesser than traditional art. Going by their own logic, they should be going after Stephen King for all the fucked up shit he writes, but they don’t because they would get laughed or bullied off the Internet.
Oh my god, you're right, I hadn't thought of Stephen King
Or, grow up and stop caring? Lol. Anyone who seriously assigns themselves to these labels needs to stop caring so much. Like, be normal
Proshippers are normies though. Antis are the ones labeling people these things to start internet fights
There's nothing normal about stalking and harassing people over fiction. There's nothing normal about accusing people of serious crimes just because of the fiction they like and create.
Antis are so out of their mind if they think hurting real people in real life is the righteous thing to do and somehow better than a pro-shipper exploring various topics using fictional characters in a fictional world.
This is why you don't interact with antis. Just block and move on.
This is what everyone should do, they crave attention and are addicted to harassing people. If everyone just blocked them they wouldn't know what to do with themselves
I always did before. I definitely underestimated my lack of proper judgement while sleep-deprived and excited by a very active joyful chat. It turned so fast, showing me with absolute certainty why it's always advised to not let an anti know. I guess that was a very harsh and immediate lesson I received there.
The amount of anti shippers obsessed with pedophilia is creepy. It's almost as bad as Republicans obsessed with other people's genitalia.
They're always crying about how problematic ship content can be used for grooming while ignoring that they're the ones pushing an internet culture that encourages minors to openly state their age, gender, sexuality, and triggers in their profile, look at sexual content with strangers (so they can talk about how gross it is) and then *go confront the creators they believe to be pedophiles* about said content. Like. What part of that protects kids from being groomed.
Ikr? They are so fake too, I saw a poor artist who dealt with real csa get harrassed by antis who said quote "that they deserved it and so much worse" over a fucking ship to an actual victim?? They're always 'for the victims' but the moment a victim disagrees with them they do everything they can to invalidate their experience to justify their cruelty
I really really feel for you. It isn't your fault that a bunch of immature jerks decided to gang up on you. And while stepping away and blocking them might have worked out better for you I don't blame you for not doing so. Don't let them get to you, take some time off the internet or do something you enjoy :)
\*offers hugs\*
Sends hugs.
I'm so sorry, that must be hard when you considered them your friends. But it wasn't your fault. You tried to talk to them like adults but they just weren't buying. Maybe you lost your cool during the argument but it sounds like they were far from level headed to begin with so it's really not your fault if you reacted similarly. For what it's worth, fandoms are full of more mature and accepting people peacefully mindign their own business, you just wandered into the wrong space. I'd say if they were ready to attack you just like that, with no consideration for either logic or your feelings, they're just not people worth hanging out with. Let them wallow in their hate, good riddance. Though that probably doesn't make it hurt less right now, but seriously, you deserve better friends.
I had a pretty similar experience with antis on twitter. No matter how much or how well you explain what proship actually means they won't care. They already have it made up in their head that you're a horrible person that touches children. Thankfully I have a good group of people in that fandom that helped me through it cause it messed me up mentally bad. 🫂 Things will get better eventually, I'm sorry a lot of people in fandom suck these days.
>And now I realize it's basically my fault. I was the one telling an Anti in a group chat that I'm accepting of all fictional media. I'm the one who lost their head during the accusations and failed to act level headed and reasonable. OP, you were the level-headed and sane one in that conversation. Anyone who jumps at another person’s neck just for respecting *fictional* content they dislike is not someone who I’d consider reasonable. You did not deserve this. I repeat: you did *not* deserve this. Don’t blame yourself for the fact that antis care more about the sanctity of fictional characters than about the well-being of real life people. They’re the ones in the wrong here, not you. As another proshipper in the “whatever floats your boat” way who is part of a bunch of anti-infested fandoms, I’m sending you a virtual hug.
I'm so sorry. That's absolutely horrible. You didn't do anything wrong. Of course you got upset and freaked out. They were the ones spamming accusations instead of sitting there and listening. They chose not to understand you or give you the benefit of the doubt despite knowing you enough to vibe with. They are the ones who should be ashamed, not you. There's something I've learned: if they're not paying your rent or contributing to your life, they aren't anyone. Yes, there's people who will hate on you, but what can they do if you block them? What can they materially do to you? But being isolated sucks. It's best to find friends who like the same things you do and aren't looking to step on you to feel good about themselves. This can take time, but people like that are out there. Definitely step back and evaluate them as people. Rip them apart for the things you know about them and take time to mourn. I have gotten into dustups with people who, when I really looked at them, were people I never would want to be like a day in my life. You can't let them keep you out. Take your time and get back in there. Or don't! But as an old fan, don't let a bunch of bottom feeders get in your way.
Aw, sweet one, I’m so sorry you went through that. Sending warmth and comfort to you. <3
Oh my god I am so angry on your behalf. This is NOT your fault, anyone would've reacted the way you did, when their so-called friends attacked them in this horrible way. This trend of accusing everybody of Pedophilia is absolutely disgusting and I genuinely think they're making the world a less safe place. Give me their numbers oh my god, I am so angry for you.
You shouldn't blame yourself for that, because they *hugely* overreacted and dogpiled you on purpose, because they knew a situation like that would intimidate you and make it more likely for you to not know what to do and to not know how to respond. That's *huge* asshole behavior on their part and means that they set the whole "confrontation" up to be as bad and long and awful as possible for you. You couldn't have known that would happen, because this was *your friend* and a true friend would have confronted you directly and calmly - not waited until an entire group is available to yell at you, insult you and ostrachize you together. They were 100% in the wrong and 100% to blame for the situation. It's not your fault that you missed a tiny sign that was never even directly addressed to you. It's not your fault that you *trusted your friend* and got stabbed in the back by them in the most awful way. It's not your fault that you didn't know how to immediately respond to and salvage a situation *that you didn't even know could happen, especially just due to one small thing you said.* I'm so sorry this all happened to you and I'm sending a whole boatload of virtual hugs your way. And as harsh as it might sound, if the other fandom space cares about this bs, then that space is not worth wasting your time on, because if they'll turn their back on you for something this stupid and inconsequential, then it's a space full of shallow people who hold no loyalities/faith in their friends. Those are the worst types of people, because you can be best friends with them for *decades* and the moment you do something wrong, they drop you like all that time together meant nothing to them. You really don't need people like that in your life. But also, that's why *good* fandom spaces have rules against drama and rules against talking about unrelated topics (which... someone's views on shipping and the entire pro- vs. anti-shipping debate *are all definitely unrelated stuff)* so if this is a good fandom space, nothing bad will happen and even if the antis try something, people will take your side, since it's *the antis* who are bringing up unrelated stuff for the purpose of causing drama. So here's to hoping this other fandom space is a really good one (or that you find a new really good one after leaving this bad one, if it's actually a bad one) and that the antis won't be able to touch you anymore!! They got one whole chance to dogpile you already, so now they better be satisfied and fuck off and leave you alone, because they don't deserve to be anywhere close to you anymore!! Find your happiness in better places with better people - and honestly, screw those antis!!
What a group of fucking no-life asshole degenerates. I’m so sorry this happened OP, I’m sending a ton of virtual hugs and love your way. https://i.redd.it/nufwgr64oz9d1.gif
What happened wasn't your fault. Antis love waiting for people to say just one "wrong" thing to justify swarming them with hate. They are responsible for their own actions, not you. There is no reason for you to stop enjoying content you like just because of these jerks. They don't get to choose when or if you lose interest in a show, game, etc. Only you have that right. These people don't know you and they never will. So go on and keep watching what you want, playing what games you want, and block and ignore anyone who tries to bully you away.
Thank you for the kind advice. It all comes down to accepting that there are negative people out there without letting them ruin the spaces you feel comfortable in, right? It's easier said than done, I realize now. I just kept seeing it happen and stayed quiet for fear of becoming a victim myself. Now that it happened, I understand how long those attacks affect people. Reading all you lovely people's comments how it wasn't my fault and that I should keep on enjoying what I like - it helps a lot. I'm getting calmer and more relieved the more comments I read and answer. Thank you so much for helping out a stressed one.
If you did a wrong thing it would be going to the wrong people (and it's still not your fault like a murder victim trusting their murderer - you didn't know) - them being Antis means shit they could have listen to you and even if not they could have speak with you gently and say that it makes them uncomfortable and not attack you - that's pure bully behaviour If they go harass you report them and then block them, if you're worried about them finding your ao3 you can turn on moderating comments
Sending virtual hugs dude. It's not your fault they're fucking bullies. You don't deserve that bullshit. I respect that you tried to argue with them, even if it was futile. I would've done the same. Everyone feels an obligation to defend themselves. You'll find better friends :)
Sorry, it’s like we are in a civil war and you can’t tell who’s who until a battle starts, and suddenly the room gets chopped up by people who take this shit way too seriously.
Oh no, I’m so so so sorry this happened to you. If you’d like a virtual hug, I’ll gladly offer one! I hope you can take some time today for yourself to self soothe, either with a favorite movie or snack or something like that, something to take your mind off of everything for a little while. I read in another comment that these people were adults, and that’s just shameful. Please know that there are lots of spaces that you’ll be welcomed with open arms (like here!) and I hope you’ll find another group soon to chat with and enjoy your fandom time. Others have already said this, but nothing you could have said would have changed their minds about you. Antis move the goalposts for their own benefit; they make up shit and pick and choose what to believe for their own benefit, only to make themselves look more righteous. You’ve done nothing wrong. I mean, you’re not the one here lobbing serious accusations and dog piling others, right? Take comfort in that, and know there are really real friends out there for you! Another virtual hug, just for good measure! <3
I'm so sorry you went through that! Especially since they were people you appreciated a lot, I can't imagine how hard this must be for you. I'm also very sorry if this comes off as mean, but you really should be more observant of the info they provide in their bio. For everyone's sake, if it says "proship dni" and you're a proshipper, block immediately! Don't engage or, literally, do not interact! Ironically it's a very similar concept to "Don't like, don't read".
Oh honey. I’m so glad that this subreddit can help ease you through a jarring experience like this. This is tough for anyone and I’m so sorry it happened to you. I know the feeling of vining so well with someone until they suddenly see you as less than human. None of this is your fault. You have been emotionally brutalized by these people and that is never your fault. Take some time to grieve the loss of a space you once belong to and then shore up your defenses. We get shaken up so we can rebuild stronger.
I am so, so sorry. People suck sometimes
It's not your fault that they're narrow-minded bullies, OP. Just mass block everyone of them on AO3 and your other social medias. Report them if they try to harass you on any platform. Don't let them dictate your online experience. At the end of the day, they're just randos on the internet. They don't really know you and you don't really know them. The beauty of the internet is that you always have the power to distance yourself from almost anything and everything, so do that and let their brains rot in their own stupidity. Do not mind their attempts at being the morality police. The notion of "proship" is ridiculous and trying to gauge a person's character and judge their interests by it is even more stupid. What constitutes as a problematic ship is incredibly subjective because it varies from each individual's personal beliefs and opinions. There is no tangible nor reasonable basis to judge a person by such measures. It's just people trying to be superior to others. Some people really think that they have to have what they perceive to be the moral highground to be able to ship made up people and make up bullshit faults to invalidate a ship they don't like. It's so baffling like is this some manifestation of catholic guilt or something? Either way, OP, don't let this bullshit stop you from enjoying what you want to enjoy.
The truth about antis is that they do not give one single sincere shit about real child sexual abuse victims. At all. That's a thin cover for the fact that what they really enjoy is having a "justified" target they can abuse freely at will themselves. They have their own kink, their own perversion, and that's the raw unbridled joy they take in witch-hunting. They feel superior because their kink isn't strictly sexual, but if you look at how unhinged they become, it's clearly a kink of some sort. They get high on cruelty, and the sort of mob-action feeling when they egg each other on. It's no coincidence that false accusation of pedophilia is a tactic used both by antis and the Religious Right who hate queer folks. The two are very closely related and they use so much of the same rhetoric it's hard to tell them apart. (and indeed I think the Venn diagram looks more like a partial eclipse than two separate circles) But in practice this makes it more difficult to find and help victims of the real thing. 95% of the time in fandom when I hear someone being called a pedophile, I assume it's more of this shit. Boy who cried wolf. It has no impact anymore. So when there's someone who it turns out actually was inappropriate with real-life children, that seems so vanishingly rare in a sea of melodramatic lies over ship wars.
Offering hugs with everyone else. Shit situation to be in, sorry you had to deal with it. I was in a leaning-anti server for a while and almost got caught up in all of it before they conflated "anti-censorship" (which is how I explain my views to people; I don't bother with pro- and anti- given the way definitions for those can be highly subjective and tend to get stronger reactions) with "want actual literal children harmed" and that, among other things, got me the hell out of there. I wish I had more advice for dealing with the fallout, but honestly... they're looking for reasons to get after people and too caught up in their puritan knight-in-shining-armor crusade so they can feel powerful and in control. If not this, they'd have eventually found something else and honestly, I feel they'd have eventually figured it out anyway. This isn't your fault. There are things that could have been done differently, yes, but you were trying to be honest with people you considered friends. Again, this is *not your fault.* I tend to just disengage when I see anti bullshit on the horizon at all. If a comment is made about it, I mention censorship being a slippery slope (and often weaponized, and how it will not stop at the "gross" stuff because again, the goal is not protecting children, it's policing other people) and if they don't genuinely want to listen, I block mercilessly. Here's hoping it dies down soon, and I hope you can again find your stride and a place in which you're comfortable, with people who won't harass you over this.
Honestly I had no clue antis existed on ao3 I'm so sorry this happened
i’m so sorry that happened. Have a hug 🤗 many others have already offered wonderful advice, so I’ll just say give them some time. They’ll tear themselves apart eventually.
Giant hugs…. I’m so sorry you were attacked like that.
I'm sorry that happened to you, Those people have 0 Media literacy and should be ashamed for assuming things about you without even giving you any chance to speak.
I find it’s ridiculous that one of the main crusade for Antis are pedophilia and child-rape. I have dived into so many of the dead doves fics, and tbh I just don’t see that type of content unless actively seeking
\*pro ship internet fandom hugs\*
Antis fucking suck. Sending virtual hugs.
I’m sorry that happened to you. Unfortunately people are often rewarded or at least not punished for foregoing nuance. People can be very reactive and volatile, and this intersects with their moral indignation and sense of self-righteousness. In real life this is generally tempered somewhat. I don’t know if it’s a guy thing, but I know in my circle if someone were to impugn your character over false accusations of that nature it could be grounds for physical confrontation. It might help to remind yourself that they’re probably only being so zealous for internet points. Imagine those “friends” of yours spouting off to people in real life about how they’re pedophiles or approve of child rape because they like a popular series or some pair in it. I imagine they’d be less likely to be so aggressive about it. People can afford to dogpile like that online because there’s little chance of retaliation and no need to provide any evidence to back up their claims. So on top of being idiots, they’re also cowards. Your only mistake was trying to explain yourself and have a discussion after they pounced on you. Think about the things they said to you, what they accused you of and what it was based on. Do they sound like reasonable, well-adjusted people you can have a mature conversation with? In the future you should be better able to sense when it’s futile and when to cut your losses. I really am sorry though. Don’t take it to heart.
Leave the group. People will disagree with you and you shouldn't make it your problem. If they're active in spaces that you like, what are the chances that an entire space is tolerant of antis? They will fight them if they attack you and you act cool. If you react to their advances to make you uncomfortable, you're letting them win. Either don't respond to them or show minimal interest in hearing their opinions. It's easy as that. So far you've lost nothing but your time hun
Sending you a hug. Your ‘friends’ need to learn reading comprehension
I’m so sorry you have to go through something like this. Please accept a virtual hug from this stranger. I know it may sound like empty words but any person readily willing to believe those loudly screaming antis without trying to get to know you or hear your side of things is someone you wouldn’t have fun being around anyway. Still, as others have already mentioned, it may be helpful to simply take a break from social media and other places where you may be exposed to their vitriol. If I were you, I’d put all fics in the anonymous collection for the time being, enable comment moderation, and disable guest comments. Or disable all comments. If you don’t want to disable them, you may consider turning off emails about comments so you don’t get anxiety from AO3 emails. Make all your bookmarks private (if you haven’t yet). Minimise your chances of seeing what they have to say to you or about you. Most importantly, please try to stay calm and check out [this manual](https://onlineharassmentfieldmanual.pen.org/), which may help you navigate your situation. Wishing you all the best! I hope it’ll just blow over and you’ll make new friends who aren’t assholes that turn on you after a single sentence (those aren’t real friends). Stay strong. 🫂
I love my friends to death, I will never tell them my opinions on fanfiction and shipping because I know they will hate me. That sucks, I’m sorry.
If they would suddenly hate you over your opinion on fiction, are they really your friends?
I'm with you on that. They got to know me before, just this topic had them change their whole view of me as if I'd gone out and committed crimes in real life. It's depressing, thinking your best friends would turn on you over legal fiction.
I feel like this is another illogical "coming out" problem that shouldn't even exist in the first place. It's weird needing to hide that you accept whatever law accepts. Or even like what law accepts. I feel like they fight us over common reasoning
*Why* do you love people who would hate you over that? That makes no sense to me. If you can't trust them with the truth about your harmless hobby, they're just not good friends.
As others have said, people who will drop you over this aren't your friends. Please be careful, you deserve to surround yourself with people who love and accept you.
Very very gently those aren't your friends. Ask yourself why you want to tiptoe on eggshells and not share things you like and are excited about because you might lose these people?
I guess that’s easy to say in theory, but they *are* still my friends.They’re good people, usually very understanding, people I will always enjoy being around. I know I would’ve thought very similarly just a couple years ago, and I doubt my friends would go as far to harass me over it, but they wouldn’t want to be friends with someone who, in their eyes, is a pedo apologist or incest apologist or a rapist apologist or abuser apologist or whatever. And I understand that, if I thought pro shipping made someone those things, I wouldn’t hang out with those people, I *would* feel revolted. The problem is, it definitely doesn’t. But it’d be near impossible to convince them otherwise, and if I failed to do so, they’d probably hate me. That’s not a conversation I want to risk. If they harassed anyone, I would draw the line, but I am more or less okay to keep things the way they are. For me, fanfiction is a small hobby in the grand scheme of things and my tastes are (mostly) usually pretty mainstream, so I’m “safe”. I think it’s a selfish sentiment I hold, but it’s the truth.
Yeah, they’re not your friends.
Very very gently those aren't your friends. Ask yourself why you want to tiptoe on eggshells and not share things you like and are excited about because you might lose these people?
I’ve started seeing “proshipping” in YouTube videos now. Outside of Tumblr. It’s breaching containment and I’m very concerned the wrong types of people are going to seize this to ban books/websites - and get applauded all the way.
>I’m very concerned the wrong types of people are going to seize this to ban books/websites I think that's part of why it started in the first place, honestly. It'd be way too much of a coincidence that antis 'suddenly' got big as the political atmosphere in Western countries sharply took a turn towards conservatism and anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric. I've actually seen some posts that connected antis to the rise in TERF activity, unfortunately didn't save those posts though. Queer teenage antis are useful idiots for fascists, that's all.
A few years ago I had this exact same thing happen and I was the creator of my group. Still got booted after being dogpiled. Ive talked about it before but if I could afford therapy, I would get it. Just know that: losing your cool? I did that too. Its what they live for. It is NOT your fault. They are stuck in their ways and you cannot persuade them an inch. Just leave that group or fandom and find new friends.
I'm sorry this happened to you. Internet hate mobs are no joke and I can't stand them on principle. Keep writing your work about whatever brings you joy. People who do things like this don't matter.
Not your fault 🫂 That’s what they want you to think, and they’re so cruel and shaming and insidious with their rhetoric it really *can* make you feel like it’s you, not them. I was bullied HARD out of a group of people not even for fiction, and it's so shocking and virulent you don't even know how to defend yourself in the moment. Those people are bullies who are thrilled to have any chance to do so, which is why they spend no time or energy helping the causes they claim to champion. They don't actually care. Anyway, this is my way of saying don't let them ruin fandom writ large for you. For example, you have us and this sub, we've got your back. 🧡
It is NOT your fault. They chose to attack you. You didn’t attack them, you just stated your personal views. Yes, it was perhaps not the best forum in which to make those views public, but you have a right to your opinions, just as they have a right to theirs. For most people, labels like being pro-ship or anti have become integral to our sense of self, our sense of where we belong in the world, of how the world *is* and anyone or anything that challenges that sense is seen as an attack on the very fabric of reality.
OP, I'm really sorry for what have happened to you. anties unfortunately aren't reasonable, and talking with them really isn't worth it. I hope you are doing better now!
(Ah, I should've just edited my reply. Sorry, still kinda clumsy on Reddit.) I was doing better for about 10 hours? Overnight and most of the day. Then they proved your message by getting more unbelievable in their actions today. Inoriginally wrote it as a reply, then figured updating my post is probably more logical. Thank you for your concern, it is a small soothing at the right time.
\*sends tons of hugs\* I hope you'll feel better very soon. What a bunch of immature... people. And it's absolutely not your fault!
I just read your update, and I am so sorry. I feel so bad for you. This behavior is disgusting and unacceptable. I want you to know that if someone randomly told me that someone did something without proof, I wouldn’t believe them. I’d also be side-eyeing the people spreading such rumors. That’s high school mean girl behavior that I would want no part of. It might be best to step away from social media for a bit. Or create new socials that these people don’t have access to. Protect your mental health. These people suck.
Thank you so much. It shocked me deeply, realizing they actually showed up in world chat as a group to scream "pedophile". To be so public about their hunt against a person was a jarring experience. I also thought people would react irritated, so it hurt doubly seeing them giving thanks for the public attack. Especially from someone I was friendly with for quite some time. Even knowing they're obviously not good persons to interact with if they believe public attacks so easily, it still took a toll on my safety impression of social contacts. Because who else are they turning easily without me knowing? Since then, more happened. So I decided to edit the Update, also to make it easier to understand. I fear I might have to add to it over time if I don't give up on those game servers and Discord account. It just doesn't seem fair to be forced into starting over and giving up longtime accounts just to be safe from harm.
I'm so sorry this happened to you, this people are in the wrong no matter the perspective and it is definitely their fault, not yours. Even IF they were right when it comes to proship vs anti, ganging up and attacking someone is not the way to go, let alone saying an innocent person supports child rape. In some fandom spaces, I do tend to end up more often than not in the anti side of the algorithm because I silence/block ships that I don't like or make me uncomfortable, but, honestly, the moment the way the antis I talk to go from 'this person ships X if you wanna block them' to 'this person supports the existence of X, let's harass them' it's an automatic unfollow and block from me. In the ideal world, both sides would be able to coexist by just not interacting much with each other and keeping discussions civil, since the debate about fiction is not one in which one side should be wishing death on the other, logically, but sadly that is not the world we live in. I'd recommend you take a break from either social media or this specific Fandom space so you can recover. Remember it is NOT your fault and try to find new people to chat with. After you're feeling better, it might be better to have a small explanation text of the situation and why you are a "whatever floats your boat proship" in case once you go back to that Fandom space they try to get even more people against you. Hope you'll feel better soon. Fuck those assholes
Upon reading your update, I strongly urge you to collect what information you can and report them for harassment. I also suggest you don't give them any kind of win. Don't leave the game due to their bullying. Show them that their tactics will not chase you away. Stand firm and don't budge. Ignore and don't respond to anything they say.
Honestly, I agree with what others have said. After this update, you might have legal grounds to sue them for harassment. Which *could* actually lead somewhere if your country makes it so these assholes *have to be outed to law enforcment for their actions* because some countries do force online platforms into doing that. But what damn near *every* country will grant you is a Cease & Desist that you can then enforce on servers, so the server's admins will be forced to remove the troublemakers. Not a real solution, because they can obviously rejoin servers under new names, but what they are doing is harassment and that is illegal in just about every country *and* on just about every website. So if you have the energy, then report them (especially for misinformation, if you can, because that's defamatory stuff they're saying about you) as relentlessly as they are harassing you. They're in the wrong, they are absolute scum and they don't deserve to take what's fun away from you. And I can *promise* you the only reason people "thanked" them for raising attention on that server was because these thankers were *messaged privately beforehand with lies about you and then asked "hey, when we state this openly on the server, can you show your support somehow, maybe by thanking us or whatever?"* and not because they actually agreed with their stupid claims from the first moment they heard of these claims. EDIT: Also, that fellow friendly player can report those people for in-game griefing. That's generally taken pretty seriously by devs, because it destroys a game's whole atmosphere/appeal. What they're doing is targeted, cruel and not even true. That's harassment to a tee. I hope your country has *extensive* laws for this (which you'll generally even find online, under some version of: online harassment/cyber stalking/cyber bullying) that will absolutely *ruin* these little fuckers.
So what that is is targeted harassment, libel and slander. Report them to everyone and every thing.
wow anti ship nazis, get out of there! never let ANYONE dictate what you like, don't even talk to them, don't engage. your sanity, your safety, your emotions are the TOP most priority not what others think, not what others want AND NOT WHAT OTHERS DEMAND antishippers by wikipedia: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ship\_missile](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ship_missile) https://preview.redd.it/my93kgtzny9d1.png?width=1166&format=png&auto=webp&s=671f3e5e630ad94efe7315889f15a218f1fee476
And that is why I interact with no one after reading a fic.
I've had people give me shit for being pro-ship before (although I don't actually like most problematic stuff myself,) but I don't have a large supply of spare fucks to give so I just tell them to fuck off.
Hugs 🫂🫂🫂 I'm so sorry it happened to you, you really can't tell if someone's a shitty anti until too late sometimes Please take care of yourself, do things you love to try to distract yourself from the pain, it wasn't your fault and they're just shitheads On a note I actually doubt they're really adults like you said in another comment, there's a lot of kids who fake their ages, including in anti groups, to access nsfw (follow priv accs of nsfw artists, either to consume their art or to find things to call them out for) or to look more mature in discussions, I don't think a whole group of ppl in their 20s could be this stupid
I just read your update. What a weird little cult these people run. Maybe one day they can find it in themselves to give more of a fuck about real people than fictional characters.