Well I still get down voted for saying we should draft Caleb Williams? Unfortunately that's out the window now. How many seasons can you give a guy before the excuses stop? Season 6 is next year . Kyler is an average NFL QB and that's all he'll ever be.
I brought my two year old to the game and when he wanted to go home we were up 8-7 and looked pretty good on our only drive. Things clearly didn't hold up.
I have only seen one game with Kyler this year but is the offense any different from what we are used to seeing? The first game back, it looked like he was in shotgun most of the game. Not sure why we don't go under center, run the ball, and get some more play action in. We ran a lot more with Dobbs and it was pretty successful. I was hoping we would go that route and have Kyler hit the throws Dobbs couldn't.....
I got downvoted for mentioning that Kyler fans were saying "we just need Kyler" 3 weeks ago to "we just need a WR1" this week. I would honestly like to know their feelings now, honestly.
This was the first game, where I starting to realize Kyler might not be our best answer. The Baseline is Dobbs and so far Kyler hasn't been better through 3 games.
Murray hasn't been any better than Dobbs. His contract is going to hold the entire franchise hostage. Don't think he's tradable right now. He has to show alot more.
I'm not sold on Kyler being the guy moving forward either, but honestly what does he really have to work with right now? Our coaching is ass, the play calling is slightly better than Kingsbury but that's it, our oline is hot garbage, and you could probably find taller receivers at your local peewee football league. This team has been stripped of any talent at every single level, mostly thanks to Keim and Bidwill running this team into the ground after Bruce Arians left.
We get these young head coaches who have no clue. Our best seasons were with first year head coaches, who had a ton of NFL game experience. Gannon and Kingsbury come in with very little. Outside of Green and Buddy, have we ever hired a head coach with previous head coaching experience?
The issue is that quality experienced coaches take other open jobs over us. Remember that Bidwill made a hard push for Andy Reid but he chose KC. We supposedly made a big bid for Quinn, but he took a raise in Dallas.
This game sucked however we knew going into the season we were going to suck as the plan was to clear a lot of bad money on the books. We knew the talent would be low given this factor. Having 14 people on IR when the talent pool was low to start is just insult to injury. Half the starters would be 3rd string to practice squad on other teams.
The fact they still fight is a huge improvement over the Kliff era as I donāt recall them ever really looking like they cared on the field.
The actual starters were a disappointment in this game. Oline didnāt look great, granted Donald does that to most lines. Kylerās accuracy was crap. He has been bad on the long ball since he came back but he was off on everything today. If you are a franchise QB you have to find a way to make plays with or without pressure. Play calling might be a factor but you also have to execute on what was called.
Defense was abysmal but thatās where a big chunk of the injuries are. I am not sure if I am more annoyed watching Wilson get torched every play or watching everyone get beat. Would have liked to see some adjustments to try and curb the run even though they probably would have then lit us up by passing.
What a piece of shit performance was shown today. Holy crap, we are struggling. I thought that maybe having Murray back and winning that game was going to spark something good for the remainder of the season. But, they are still looking like shit. Iām so frustrated as a fan. I just want to enjoy watching the Cardinals again.
Zero positives to take away from this game, just an absolute beat down.
Kyler looks bad. The OL is complete trash with our rookie first rounder looking just awful. Our best healthy WR is Dortch and he barely sees the field, Marquise Brown continues to remind us that Keim just threw away a first round pick. Conner getting under 10 touches...okay? why?
The defense...oof. Just awfulness everywhere. Just letting Kyren Williams and Royce Freeman run all over them like the bums they are.
I hope kyler gets traded to another team so we see if he was the problem or cardinals were the problem. Itād be hilarious if he went somewhere else and shined. And I think he would
There are plenty of teams who would be immediate contenders with Kyler over their current starters. Browns, Steelers, Falcons, Saints, Buccaneers, Titans, Colts, and I'm sure plenty more.
Kyler isn't perfect by any means, but the team around him is by far the worst roster in the NFL.
His contract isn't something any team would take on right now. He's untradeable until he shows more.
So odd he's even playing to tell you the truth. Why rush it back? Almost like they want to show teams he has value so they can dump his contract.
An already undermanned defense was hit by injuries which didnāt help matters. The offensive line was bad along with Murray. Play calling questionable. Itās going to be a 2 year rebuild at minimum. If Murray doesnāt perform through these last games and I emphasize the if, then qb will be an option. But thatās if the panthers or patriots finish ahead due to the tiebreakers in their easier SOS.
Rams averaged nearly 7 yards a carry against usā¦. We had 0% chance to win against that.
I feel like this isnāt the first time a team has run for 5+ yards a carry against us right?
We all knew this team would be in contention for the #1 pick but this season has been tough to watch for sure.
This team sucks everywhere from the owner to the coach to the players. If Murray is hurt again (he was limping by the end of the game) then I think thatās our answer as to whether or not we keep him long term since he will have proven he is injury prone.
Paris Johnson is struggling and got beat nearly every snap he was out there.
Just a pathetic showing from this pathetic team.
Itās pure insanity how the first drive went so well while we lined up predominantly under center and then after that we just go completely away from it. The fuck?
This is what I'm saying, playing under center helps the line and the qb. Chip the edge get Kyler in space where it stresses the linebackers and opens the middle of the field where he was GREAT to start the game. Then we abandon the run game and only play out of shotgun and wonder why Kyler looks like shit.
There's a large difference in the percentage of plays we've run under center when Kyler is in versus a backup (Dobbs, McCoy, Tune, the other guy). This has been the case with Kliff and now Gannon. There's a constant in this equation
I remember going back and watching the game Blough started against the Falcoms last year, and the playcalling Kliff had in that game looked a lot more "traditional" than it did with Kyler too.
Kyler is a shotgun spread QB who was drafted to be a game breaker. He is most comfortable in the shotgun, so that is what they are going to call.
And if everyone wants a under center playaction Big-10 confrence in the winter game manager offense so badly, then we might as well just dump Kyler now and get someone else, because that is never going to be his game.
The problem is that Kyler has been genuinely bad as a shotgun quarterback for the last 2 years. People want more under center plays because they think Kyler will be more successful with them.
Kyler's biggest problem is always chucking deep bombs on 3rd down. His deep ball is the worst in the league, if he keeps doing that they need to forbid him from calling audibles. People used to blame Kingsbury for those plays, but now its happening again with a new coaching staff. Dobbs ran actual plays on 3rd down instead of chucking an underthrown ball to a covered Hollywood every time.
My question there is wouldn't he still be making the same decisions whether it is shotgun or under center?
Unless they literally take away every decision except for the one they want him to make on that play, wouldn't we still see a lot of "the play is designed for the quick slant, but I'm gonna yeet it to Hollywood instead!"
And if that is the case where they do need to dumb things down so the play only has the one passing read they want him to make or just take off and run, then that isn't really a good thing for a #1 overall pick with a massive contract either.
Kyler had the actual best deep ball accuracy in the league like 2 years ago.
The actual issue is tossing up jump balls to dudes like Dortch who are 5ā 7ā
He was amazing on deep passes with receivers like Hopkins.
Even Christian Kirk whoās short too but miles better than Hollywood
Yeah his deep ball died right when Christian Kirk left the team and Kirk was his main deep ball target. He still needs to stop audibling into the deep ball on 3rd and 5. He should know by now that with his receivers its not a high percentage play.
Either way heās trying to pass to JV sized receivers and DBās literally punching down on Brown and Dortch to stuff passes.
Cardinals might have the worst WR core in the whole league.
They desperately need a Hopkins/Fitz replacement who can go up and get jump balls.
These 5ā 10ā dudes just canāt hang with NFL DBās as a WR1
It's not. If two different coaches run a lot more under center when one person isn't in the game, it's pretty reasonable to assume that person has something to do with why more shotgun is being called. I think that's sound logic.
Tired of sugarcoating it PJJ is straight up ass , so many 1 st rounders have showed crazy promise meanwhile we drafted this bum who legit is bottom 5 of the first rounders drafted this year
This is one of the reasons I hate when fans want to tank for better draft position. Drafting is such a crap shoot. You are way more likely to draft a bust than a star
I get things change year to year...but I don't get at all how people want to pass on MHJ if he's available for another roll of the dice OL pick.
After PJJ, I want no part of this front office's OL evaluations on high draft picks.
Pathetic pick he has been , Dawand Jones got taken in the 4 th round and is outplaying his ass also a teammate on the same line at Ohio state . Donāt need another Neal, Okwonu , PJJ last one who is even in the conversation is Sewel who is good on one hand on the other the bengals got Chase and went to the Super Bowl with him , no excuse in taking a lineman instead of a stud receiver
Could of had Witherspoon , Carter , Will Anderson , Bijan , Kincaid , Flowers , Addison , Wright and Skoronski to name a few I know have been decent for the time traded up the Laporta pick to get him mind boggling , Evan Neal 2.0
Kyler needs a receiver whoās not 5ā 10ā
Hollywood aināt it and donāt think they should resign him.
Kyler wasnāt great either but canāt have jump balls with all these short dudes.
MHJ could completely change the trajectory of Arizonaās offense
The more we lose the better obviously
MHJ would be the dream pick for Kyler, just feels like the perfect WR to pair with him.
I don't know if Hollywood is going to be worth bringing back at the money he probably wants.
Hoping Michael Wilson also continues to improve and has better injury luck going forwards.
A 6ā4ā fast, athletic receiver is need to catch half those balls. The oline looked bad but Kylerās accuracy sucked today too. If you need 5 seconds every time to make a good throw, you arenāt a franchise quarterback. Itās not a one or the other, it was both.
Didnāt see him run out of clean pockets or run into pressure. OL just got beat like a drum. Still rusty and in a new offense, not a great game overall.
Oh for sure they did, and I'm not saying I expect Kyler to be incredible even when the offensive line sucks ass like they did. But great QBs are able to mitigate the effects of a shit line to a greater degree than mid and bad QBs, and today Kyler didn't look like a great QB behind a shit line. Not saying he isn't great or can't be great, but he wasn't today.
He wasnāt great today, but I really disagree, especially coming out of a major knee injury in a new offense with WRs that canāt separate and are small.
Just too much stacked against him today to expect him to look like 2008 Kurt Warner (also had a very bad OL)
When Mcvay and Aaron Donald retire Iām going to celebrate like we won a Super Bowl. If both happen at the same time I might die from alcohol poisoning.
Yall keep saying Kyler is our answer but act like we draft Caleb or someone else and all our other problems go away, we have no chance but to build around him
If Kyler canāt keep healthy for a full season, which he hasnāt showed he can outside of his rookie year, keeping him on the books for 50 million a year would not be a good idea
Would u rather take the 50 mil hit then and not have him on the roster?? Regardless we donāt got the 1 pick and the bears are going to choose Caleb, even if we do we canāt keep drafting qbs, we need to actually evaluate the trenches and focus on it the next couple of years, whole reason why keim sucked was because of his constant need of qb and skill players and not enough trench help
Damn, feeling real bad after this one. Really need Kyler and PJJ to play better to generate any semblance of hope for next season. Also play calling was weak. Once we got off-script we where toast
Our problem was the lack of rhythm on offense. After that 1st series where we ran the ball 4x, we went 3 plays for 4 yards, 3 plays for -3 yards, 4 plays for 8 yards, 3 plays for 6 yards and 3 plays for 14 yards. We did mix in a few runs in those drives but it wasn't Connor in the backfield for those.
Kyler has to do a better job at running the offense. He was awful outside of that 1st drive.
If heās a franchise guy, we need to block for him and also not give up 37 points.
Canāt have him throwing to receivers shorter than himself either.
Conner is a bit old for a RB and has had injury issues throughout his career. By the time this team is ready to contend, he might have hit the David Johnson wall at that point.
This season is important for one thing, can Kyler look good enough to be our QB for the future at that contract.
He needs to show a lot more these final weeks and also stay healthy. He can't keep getting injured, looking so flustered at every pre snap show by the defence and he can't just keep inexplicably missing easy throws.
It's been 2 years since the last time he played consistently well at QB. Win some games, take us out of the top 2 picks and show what you are worth or i really doubt we are taking MHj at this point.
I got downvoted to hell for saying something similar two days ago. Still, well put.
His size and durability have always concerned me. Way more than the allegations about his work ethic or demeanor.
And I think his contract is moveable. As long as he doesnāt play horribly for the rest of the year.
Iād rather trade for him instead drafting Bo Nix or whoever if I were Washington or Pittsburgh.
His pocket awareness is really poor. Juxtapose how stafford handled pressure in this game and was able to navigate it rather than just eat sacks
I like Kyler a lot but his height is a massive concern there are just throws he canāt make over the middle from the pocket
Check out the pic at the top of the article: https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/cardinals/2022/05/17/drew-brees-next-team-odds-arizona-cardinals-in-play-quarterback/9807077002/
Heās the same height as Brees. Height is not an excuse.
Durability has always been my biggest worry as well.
Every QB gets knocks, but Kyler's performance has always been visibly impacted when he has any sort of injury and you just can't hack it in the league like that.
His performance has always been affected when he is on his back foot in any scenario. He's always scrambled at bad times, thrown bad balls under pressure, and made absolutely bone headed decisions in the heat of the moment.
We eliminated the shitty coaching from Kliff, and he's still doing it.
Kyler can be the most athletic person on the field but it just doesn't cut it in the NFL as a QB to not also have a cool head.
Maybe those things are just who he is and always has been as a QB? No matter what coach he was drafted for, would probably see the same issues wherever he went.
Will be funny watching the last 4 dozen Murray supporters abandon him on this sub.
My father in law called this the week after he was drafted. Undersized manlet QBs quickly fade after the inevitable injury and are not the solution for a franchise QB.
Wait are we not allowed to be optimistic? To be fair, he looked good in that first game back and it made sense to think he would continue to improve instead of playing like ass.
We have a OL that is not NFL caliber and receivers that are not good at separation (and for some: that canāt catch). What expectations should we have for any QB in this situation? Look how good Dobbs looks with actual NFL-level personnel around him.
Every season we end up picking up PS guys and couch dwellers and make them starters on the OL and DL.
Joe burrow had arguably a team 3x more talented than our offense yet couldnāt put up any numbers for first 4 games - yet still had full support from their fans.
Kyler plays mediocre with a dogshit team and OL and everyone wants his head lol
They showed a replay on it seems cardinals OL stepped on him at an awkward angle. I think it might just be a bruise though those cleats can be pretty painful.
Games like that show why Murray isnāt a franchise qb.
Three games in this season and he doesnāt look much better than he did last year. Heās a mid qb with a top 5 salary cap hit.
Bro all you do is hate on Kyler as if this team isnāt failing in every phase of the game. DL failed today, OL failed today. Kyren Williams had like 250 yards and 2 Tds and your take away is āKyler is badā. Itās a team sport he canāt do everything by himself
Doesnāt change the fact that heās not worth his contract.
Itās the most important position in American sports no shit Iām going to talk about it.
His contract is 8th in the league and will be cheaper in 4 years than any rookie they draft. Thereās is not another qb on the market that can do what Kyler can do
Second highest cap hit next season behind Mahomes. In 4 years Murray wonāt be on this team.
What exactly is it that Murray can do? Miss open receivers on a 4th down? Fall down in the pocket when no one touches him? Throw for very average numbers?
There are a lot of QBs on the market that can do that.
Even with his cap hit this team has 80-100m in cap space next year so that is irrelevant. He can improvise better than any other qb in the league outside of mahomes or Lamar Jackson. He has great arm talent and is easily a top 10 qb talent and would excel in any team with some talent on offense. Heās playing with a bunch of no names and rookies. They didnāt make any signings this offseason. This team is basically stripped down to nothing in the midst of a rebuild and you expect Kepler to be throwing for 300 yards and 2 Tds every week. He has 250 and a rushing TD today with no turnovers yet somehow thatās not good enough?
> He can improvise better than any other qb in the league outside of mahomes or Lamar Jackson.
This is beyond homerism. This is straight up delusional.
Burrow, Hurts, Allen, Herbert, Tua, and probably Lawrence are all better at improvising this season. Hell you could probably put Purdy in there too.
> He has great arm talent and is easily a top 10 qb talent
His arm talent is only at throwing far. His arm ātalentā missed open receivers on that early 4th down and under threw Hollywood again this week. Heās not an accurate passer and he struggles reading defenses.
Heās not a top 10 qb especially after last season and three games so far this year. Look up any experts list of top 10 QBs and Murray wonāt be there. Heās the third best qb in the division. And probably the worst when you factor cap hit into it.
> He has 250 and a rushing TD today with no turnovers yet somehow thatās not good enough?
At his salary no. Heās an average qb right now which isnāt what weāre paying him to be.
Compare the roster of every one of the QBs to the roster of the cardinals then get back to me. Herbert is getting skunked by the ravens as we speak. Tua had 2 interceptions and a fumble this weekend on 243 passing and 1 TD, Burrow no comment needed, hurts has a Super Bowl caliber roster and same with Purdy. Kyler is capable of doing anything those guys are doing. Also the majority of the guys you listed are getting paid more than Kyler. Majority of teams in the NFL would love Kyler and heād probably excel.
Even when Kyler had a good roster around him his peak was getting curbstomped in the playoffs and throwing the worst pick six in playoff history.
Allen is the only one being paid more this season.
Watch next offseason when we try and trade Kyler. Weāll be lucky to get what we got for Rosen. No one wants him at that salary.
No his peak with a good roster was 7-1 and in conversations for MVP until he literally hit his receiver in the back. That was followed by injuries to him, dhop, James Conner, multiple Oline men , etc. his cap hit is high the next 2 seasons but quickly falls off.
Also you are wrong again about how much heās getting paid. Right now Burrow, Herbert, Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurts, and Russel Wilson are all getting paid more than him. His cap hit this year is 11th among all QBs. Next year it will be very high then it will fall off sharply. As you can see even players with High Cap hits(Dak, Mahomes, Lamar, Jared Goff) are all on good teams who are winning. You keep bringing up his contract as if itās a huge hinderance but really itās not. He has a huge cap hit next year but even with that the team will still have 80-100m in cap to spend. Using that with good drafting can turn this team around in a couple of years. If they draft a QB they will be trash for another 3 year at least while we wait for them to develop and try to fill holes
Well I still get down voted for saying we should draft Caleb Williams? Unfortunately that's out the window now. How many seasons can you give a guy before the excuses stop? Season 6 is next year . Kyler is an average NFL QB and that's all he'll ever be.
I brought my two year old to the game and when he wanted to go home we were up 8-7 and looked pretty good on our only drive. Things clearly didn't hold up.
I knew it was just a matter of time before Kyler got absolutely wrecked with that shitty toilet paper O line. Just pathetic.
I have only seen one game with Kyler this year but is the offense any different from what we are used to seeing? The first game back, it looked like he was in shotgun most of the game. Not sure why we don't go under center, run the ball, and get some more play action in. We ran a lot more with Dobbs and it was pretty successful. I was hoping we would go that route and have Kyler hit the throws Dobbs couldn't.....
I got downvoted for mentioning that Kyler fans were saying "we just need Kyler" 3 weeks ago to "we just need a WR1" this week. I would honestly like to know their feelings now, honestly.
This was the first game, where I starting to realize Kyler might not be our best answer. The Baseline is Dobbs and so far Kyler hasn't been better through 3 games.
Murray hasn't been any better than Dobbs. His contract is going to hold the entire franchise hostage. Don't think he's tradable right now. He has to show alot more.
We knew this last season too. The franchise is in a bad spot for years to come.
I'm not sold on Kyler being the guy moving forward either, but honestly what does he really have to work with right now? Our coaching is ass, the play calling is slightly better than Kingsbury but that's it, our oline is hot garbage, and you could probably find taller receivers at your local peewee football league. This team has been stripped of any talent at every single level, mostly thanks to Keim and Bidwill running this team into the ground after Bruce Arians left.
None of this explains why he hasn't been better than Dobbs in the exact same situation.
Remember when everything was Kingsbury's fault?
Lots of things that people blamed on him are still just as much of a problem right now.
Exactly
>Kingsbury's fault? Are you insinuating kingsbury isn't ass?
No, I'm insinuating that blaming one dude for all the problems of this team and org was dumb. I'm talking about the general statements on this sub.
Ok, but he was pretty poor HC. Not as big as a disaster of keim tho.
We get these young head coaches who have no clue. Our best seasons were with first year head coaches, who had a ton of NFL game experience. Gannon and Kingsbury come in with very little. Outside of Green and Buddy, have we ever hired a head coach with previous head coaching experience?
none of them want to come here a deal with Bidwell hovering over them.
The issue is that quality experienced coaches take other open jobs over us. Remember that Bidwill made a hard push for Andy Reid but he chose KC. We supposedly made a big bid for Quinn, but he took a raise in Dallas.
It's because Bidwill is the problem and the veteran guys know it.
My first NFL game I go to and we get blown out lol. Such bad luck š
Sounds like me at the Cam Newton's return game. Shit's tough man.
They really enforced a blackout so we couldnāt watch any other game in the afternoon slot. Fuck this team
Canāt make this shit up
Still fuming about how we made a very modest running back effing Barry Sanders. Embarrassing.
Twice.
hey, Marco Wilson got benched! other than thatā¦ uhā¦ yeah no this game sucked
This game sucked however we knew going into the season we were going to suck as the plan was to clear a lot of bad money on the books. We knew the talent would be low given this factor. Having 14 people on IR when the talent pool was low to start is just insult to injury. Half the starters would be 3rd string to practice squad on other teams. The fact they still fight is a huge improvement over the Kliff era as I donāt recall them ever really looking like they cared on the field. The actual starters were a disappointment in this game. Oline didnāt look great, granted Donald does that to most lines. Kylerās accuracy was crap. He has been bad on the long ball since he came back but he was off on everything today. If you are a franchise QB you have to find a way to make plays with or without pressure. Play calling might be a factor but you also have to execute on what was called. Defense was abysmal but thatās where a big chunk of the injuries are. I am not sure if I am more annoyed watching Wilson get torched every play or watching everyone get beat. Would have liked to see some adjustments to try and curb the run even though they probably would have then lit us up by passing.
Marco Wilsonās fault we lost today
What a piece of shit performance was shown today. Holy crap, we are struggling. I thought that maybe having Murray back and winning that game was going to spark something good for the remainder of the season. But, they are still looking like shit. Iām so frustrated as a fan. I just want to enjoy watching the Cardinals again.
Zero positives to take away from this game, just an absolute beat down. Kyler looks bad. The OL is complete trash with our rookie first rounder looking just awful. Our best healthy WR is Dortch and he barely sees the field, Marquise Brown continues to remind us that Keim just threw away a first round pick. Conner getting under 10 touches...okay? why? The defense...oof. Just awfulness everywhere. Just letting Kyren Williams and Royce Freeman run all over them like the bums they are.
I feel like we should fail quick with this coaching staff.
I hope kyler gets traded to another team so we see if he was the problem or cardinals were the problem. Itād be hilarious if he went somewhere else and shined. And I think he would
There are plenty of teams who would be immediate contenders with Kyler over their current starters. Browns, Steelers, Falcons, Saints, Buccaneers, Titans, Colts, and I'm sure plenty more. Kyler isn't perfect by any means, but the team around him is by far the worst roster in the NFL.
His contract isn't something any team would take on right now. He's untradeable until he shows more. So odd he's even playing to tell you the truth. Why rush it back? Almost like they want to show teams he has value so they can dump his contract.
An already undermanned defense was hit by injuries which didnāt help matters. The offensive line was bad along with Murray. Play calling questionable. Itās going to be a 2 year rebuild at minimum. If Murray doesnāt perform through these last games and I emphasize the if, then qb will be an option. But thatās if the panthers or patriots finish ahead due to the tiebreakers in their easier SOS.
Rams averaged nearly 7 yards a carry against usā¦. We had 0% chance to win against that. I feel like this isnāt the first time a team has run for 5+ yards a carry against us right? We all knew this team would be in contention for the #1 pick but this season has been tough to watch for sure.
At least the Texans lost
This team sucks everywhere from the owner to the coach to the players. If Murray is hurt again (he was limping by the end of the game) then I think thatās our answer as to whether or not we keep him long term since he will have proven he is injury prone. Paris Johnson is struggling and got beat nearly every snap he was out there. Just a pathetic showing from this pathetic team.
Itās pure insanity how the first drive went so well while we lined up predominantly under center and then after that we just go completely away from it. The fuck?
Our OC is as bad as our O-line.
It was a scripted drive. I donāt think Kyler is used to playing under center yet after playing exclusively in the gun his whole career
This is what I'm saying, playing under center helps the line and the qb. Chip the edge get Kyler in space where it stresses the linebackers and opens the middle of the field where he was GREAT to start the game. Then we abandon the run game and only play out of shotgun and wonder why Kyler looks like shit.
There's a large difference in the percentage of plays we've run under center when Kyler is in versus a backup (Dobbs, McCoy, Tune, the other guy). This has been the case with Kliff and now Gannon. There's a constant in this equation
I remember going back and watching the game Blough started against the Falcoms last year, and the playcalling Kliff had in that game looked a lot more "traditional" than it did with Kyler too. Kyler is a shotgun spread QB who was drafted to be a game breaker. He is most comfortable in the shotgun, so that is what they are going to call. And if everyone wants a under center playaction Big-10 confrence in the winter game manager offense so badly, then we might as well just dump Kyler now and get someone else, because that is never going to be his game.
The problem is that Kyler has been genuinely bad as a shotgun quarterback for the last 2 years. People want more under center plays because they think Kyler will be more successful with them. Kyler's biggest problem is always chucking deep bombs on 3rd down. His deep ball is the worst in the league, if he keeps doing that they need to forbid him from calling audibles. People used to blame Kingsbury for those plays, but now its happening again with a new coaching staff. Dobbs ran actual plays on 3rd down instead of chucking an underthrown ball to a covered Hollywood every time.
My question there is wouldn't he still be making the same decisions whether it is shotgun or under center? Unless they literally take away every decision except for the one they want him to make on that play, wouldn't we still see a lot of "the play is designed for the quick slant, but I'm gonna yeet it to Hollywood instead!" And if that is the case where they do need to dumb things down so the play only has the one passing read they want him to make or just take off and run, then that isn't really a good thing for a #1 overall pick with a massive contract either.
Kyler had the actual best deep ball accuracy in the league like 2 years ago. The actual issue is tossing up jump balls to dudes like Dortch who are 5ā 7ā He was amazing on deep passes with receivers like Hopkins. Even Christian Kirk whoās short too but miles better than Hollywood
Yeah his deep ball died right when Christian Kirk left the team and Kirk was his main deep ball target. He still needs to stop audibling into the deep ball on 3rd and 5. He should know by now that with his receivers its not a high percentage play.
Either way heās trying to pass to JV sized receivers and DBās literally punching down on Brown and Dortch to stuff passes. Cardinals might have the worst WR core in the whole league. They desperately need a Hopkins/Fitz replacement who can go up and get jump balls. These 5ā 10ā dudes just canāt hang with NFL DBās as a WR1
I didn't realize how short they are... make sense why Dobbs kept overthrowing.
Except Kyler has looked fantastic under center since that's were I assume you're going with that
It's not. If two different coaches run a lot more under center when one person isn't in the game, it's pretty reasonable to assume that person has something to do with why more shotgun is being called. I think that's sound logic.
For real. Kyler is fantastic with play action and rolling out. We did it like twice and it was huge gains each time
Tired of sugarcoating it PJJ is straight up ass , so many 1 st rounders have showed crazy promise meanwhile we drafted this bum who legit is bottom 5 of the first rounders drafted this year
This is one of the reasons I hate when fans want to tank for better draft position. Drafting is such a crap shoot. You are way more likely to draft a bust than a star
I get things change year to year...but I don't get at all how people want to pass on MHJ if he's available for another roll of the dice OL pick. After PJJ, I want no part of this front office's OL evaluations on high draft picks.
Pathetic pick he has been , Dawand Jones got taken in the 4 th round and is outplaying his ass also a teammate on the same line at Ohio state . Donāt need another Neal, Okwonu , PJJ last one who is even in the conversation is Sewel who is good on one hand on the other the bengals got Chase and went to the Super Bowl with him , no excuse in taking a lineman instead of a stud receiver
We could have had Jalen Carter
Could of had Witherspoon , Carter , Will Anderson , Bijan , Kincaid , Flowers , Addison , Wright and Skoronski to name a few I know have been decent for the time traded up the Laporta pick to get him mind boggling , Evan Neal 2.0
I mean, devilās advocate, they are playing him out of position, right?
Yep. DJ humphries is in his spot for whatever reason.
He got smoked by a backup. There are no excuses.
Also first time all year Iām thinking we might wanna take a qb
Kyler needs a receiver whoās not 5ā 10ā Hollywood aināt it and donāt think they should resign him. Kyler wasnāt great either but canāt have jump balls with all these short dudes. MHJ could completely change the trajectory of Arizonaās offense The more we lose the better obviously
MHJ would be the dream pick for Kyler, just feels like the perfect WR to pair with him. I don't know if Hollywood is going to be worth bringing back at the money he probably wants. Hoping Michael Wilson also continues to improve and has better injury luck going forwards.
Brown is definitely hurt. But ya, tough when all of the receivers are 5ā9
Shit, Dortch is only 5ā 7ā š I like me some GD though
Dortch is the man
Hollywood is fine when heās not gimpy and is playing across from a big dude like CeeDee.
Yeah itās bad if we canāt beat a team with 4 wins
You mean canāt even compete with.
Kyler aināt the problem. Need O line but if still rather take Marvin first š
A 6ā4ā fast, athletic receiver is need to catch half those balls. The oline looked bad but Kylerās accuracy sucked today too. If you need 5 seconds every time to make a good throw, you arenāt a franchise quarterback. Itās not a one or the other, it was both.
Watch the eaglesā¦Jalen hurts has half a day to throw the ball on every snap š
He has the best OL in the league and he looks good because of it. Look at his rating under pressure, he isnāt great.
Need to build the trenches and a new QB
He's not THE problem but he wasnt good today. Missed open guys, ran into pressure, ran out of clean pockets, poor throws
Didnāt see him run out of clean pockets or run into pressure. OL just got beat like a drum. Still rusty and in a new offense, not a great game overall.
Lol then you need to watch these games more closely
Oh for sure they did, and I'm not saying I expect Kyler to be incredible even when the offensive line sucks ass like they did. But great QBs are able to mitigate the effects of a shit line to a greater degree than mid and bad QBs, and today Kyler didn't look like a great QB behind a shit line. Not saying he isn't great or can't be great, but he wasn't today.
He wasnāt great today, but I really disagree, especially coming out of a major knee injury in a new offense with WRs that canāt separate and are small. Just too much stacked against him today to expect him to look like 2008 Kurt Warner (also had a very bad OL)
When Mcvay and Aaron Donald retire Iām going to celebrate like we won a Super Bowl. If both happen at the same time I might die from alcohol poisoning.
Yall keep saying Kyler is our answer but act like we draft Caleb or someone else and all our other problems go away, we have no chance but to build around him
If Kyler canāt keep healthy for a full season, which he hasnāt showed he can outside of his rookie year, keeping him on the books for 50 million a year would not be a good idea
Would u rather take the 50 mil hit then and not have him on the roster?? Regardless we donāt got the 1 pick and the bears are going to choose Caleb, even if we do we canāt keep drafting qbs, we need to actually evaluate the trenches and focus on it the next couple of years, whole reason why keim sucked was because of his constant need of qb and skill players and not enough trench help
Damn, feeling real bad after this one. Really need Kyler and PJJ to play better to generate any semblance of hope for next season. Also play calling was weak. Once we got off-script we where toast
Yeah play calling was brutal. Wtf happened to James Conner? He tore it up on the first drive then was out for like the whole second quarter?
Our problem was the lack of rhythm on offense. After that 1st series where we ran the ball 4x, we went 3 plays for 4 yards, 3 plays for -3 yards, 4 plays for 8 yards, 3 plays for 6 yards and 3 plays for 14 yards. We did mix in a few runs in those drives but it wasn't Connor in the backfield for those. Kyler has to do a better job at running the offense. He was awful outside of that 1st drive.
We even got a Kyler "loser limp" at the end of the game.
Well that was a waste of an afternoon and 85 bucks. Fuuuuck this franchise is bad, sell the fucking team Mike!
Bidwill is a curse. Our only hope is for a Sarver type situation.
85 bucks??
Ticket price
Rams fans are boring to watch games with.
Tomorrowās Headline: Cardinals Murray expected to miss rest of the season with unspecified leg injury
TJ Watt might legit decapitate Kyler with this atrocious OLine. Might not be a bad thing to sacrifice Tune.
Let's hope he just stubbed his toe.
That stunk!
If heās a franchise guy we donāt have games like this against division opponents.
People have zero perspective on bad games. Absolutely zero.
Nope, itās temper tantrum hour for all the internally unhappy types.
They have to let it all out before the work week starts
Or the wife nags again!
If heās a franchise guy, we need to block for him and also not give up 37 points. Canāt have him throwing to receivers shorter than himself either.
Be on your best behavior. Play nice. All the good things.
Realistically how are we out from contending again? 3 years is my guess
Maybe for one year in the rest of our lifetimes...if the stars all align again...and we get incredibly lucky.
Surround Kyler and Conner with high draft pick stars this year and the NFCWest will be ready for us to rebound back on top in 2-3 years easy.
Conner is a bit old for a RB and has had injury issues throughout his career. By the time this team is ready to contend, he might have hit the David Johnson wall at that point.
Realistically we have only ācontendedā 2 years and one was a fluke Will we ever contend again is a better question
:(
Glad we all got to spend 3 hours watching ANOTHER blowout where Kyler struggled and was limping around on the field at the end during garbage time.
This season is important for one thing, can Kyler look good enough to be our QB for the future at that contract. He needs to show a lot more these final weeks and also stay healthy. He can't keep getting injured, looking so flustered at every pre snap show by the defence and he can't just keep inexplicably missing easy throws. It's been 2 years since the last time he played consistently well at QB. Win some games, take us out of the top 2 picks and show what you are worth or i really doubt we are taking MHj at this point.
I got downvoted to hell for saying something similar two days ago. Still, well put. His size and durability have always concerned me. Way more than the allegations about his work ethic or demeanor. And I think his contract is moveable. As long as he doesnāt play horribly for the rest of the year. Iād rather trade for him instead drafting Bo Nix or whoever if I were Washington or Pittsburgh.
His pocket awareness is really poor. Juxtapose how stafford handled pressure in this game and was able to navigate it rather than just eat sacks I like Kyler a lot but his height is a massive concern there are just throws he canāt make over the middle from the pocket
Check out the pic at the top of the article: https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/cardinals/2022/05/17/drew-brees-next-team-odds-arizona-cardinals-in-play-quarterback/9807077002/ Heās the same height as Brees. Height is not an excuse.
Smaller QBs generally get worse as they age. Russell Wilson turned into Baker after he turned 30.
Lol dudes just be makin shit up to sound like experts on QBing
Russell Wilson been playing good football.
His pocket awareness is poor because heās too short to see over the damn pocket
Durability has always been my biggest worry as well. Every QB gets knocks, but Kyler's performance has always been visibly impacted when he has any sort of injury and you just can't hack it in the league like that.
His performance has always been affected when he is on his back foot in any scenario. He's always scrambled at bad times, thrown bad balls under pressure, and made absolutely bone headed decisions in the heat of the moment. We eliminated the shitty coaching from Kliff, and he's still doing it. Kyler can be the most athletic person on the field but it just doesn't cut it in the NFL as a QB to not also have a cool head.
Maybe those things are just who he is and always has been as a QB? No matter what coach he was drafted for, would probably see the same issues wherever he went.
Yes I've been saying that since we drafted him
I hate it. I hate it how predictable itās become to expect a loss and an embarrassment at that. Itās just demoralizing.
Itās comical at this point. I literally just have the image engrained in my head of Kyler limping on the field after a loss. :(
He got stepped on
Reminder that the majority of people on this sub thought we would be competitive when Kyler Murray returned from injury.
Will be funny watching the last 4 dozen Murray supporters abandon him on this sub. My father in law called this the week after he was drafted. Undersized manlet QBs quickly fade after the inevitable injury and are not the solution for a franchise QB.
Wait are we not allowed to be optimistic? To be fair, he looked good in that first game back and it made sense to think he would continue to improve instead of playing like ass.
Yes, I expected out offense (who are mostly healthy) to look good against the Texans and Rams defenses with Kyler.
We have a OL that is not NFL caliber and receivers that are not good at separation (and for some: that canāt catch). What expectations should we have for any QB in this situation? Look how good Dobbs looks with actual NFL-level personnel around him. Every season we end up picking up PS guys and couch dwellers and make them starters on the OL and DL.
We were, for one game...
They were the first two games. Still a lot to figure out, obviously. There are games that we can win on the schedule because we have Kyler.
Yeah and the majority of this sub still thinks Murray is a franchise qbā¦
Youāre damn right
I hope so, but it is concerning that the offense hasn't looked noticeably better with Kyler than it did with Dobbs.
Kyler Murray is the man
This sub is full of homers, no surprise really. Realistic expectations don't exist here.
Cardinals sub is full of cardinals fans Who woulda thought
You can be a fan and still be objective
There's a big difference between being a fan of an organization and being blindly uncritical of a QB who's mid at best
Joe burrow had arguably a team 3x more talented than our offense yet couldnāt put up any numbers for first 4 games - yet still had full support from their fans. Kyler plays mediocre with a dogshit team and OL and everyone wants his head lol
He's been mediocre for years. How long until it's okay to acknowledge that?
Also: youāre not allowed to root for your QB, or youāre a āhomerā. Youāre supposed to root against your team, duh /s
Bro is trying to shame us for being optimistic š¤£
Welcome to this sub, lol. āHow dare you LIKE the Cardinals!!ā
No one hates the Cardinals more than Cardinal fans lol, it's a right of passage at this point.
Of course Kyler is gimpy now. Canāt have anything nice in AZ
Wasn't watching, what happened?
Iām confused too, I only watched first half. Cardinals gave up 37 pts, howās this completely on Kyler? Did he get injured?
Because Kyler bad
Yes, Kyler was phenomenal today
Just seemed to limp at the end of the game. No specific play seemed to have caused it but our o line was complete garbage all game.
They showed a replay on it seems cardinals OL stepped on him at an awkward angle. I think it might just be a bruise though those cleats can be pretty painful.
Games like that show why Murray isnāt a franchise qb. Three games in this season and he doesnāt look much better than he did last year. Heās a mid qb with a top 5 salary cap hit.
I agree. You put a top 3 roster around him and he'll do well. But he's in that top 20-25 Dalton-line tier, and can't elevate a team into a contender.
Bro all you do is hate on Kyler as if this team isnāt failing in every phase of the game. DL failed today, OL failed today. Kyren Williams had like 250 yards and 2 Tds and your take away is āKyler is badā. Itās a team sport he canāt do everything by himself
Doesnāt change the fact that heās not worth his contract. Itās the most important position in American sports no shit Iām going to talk about it.
His contract is 8th in the league and will be cheaper in 4 years than any rookie they draft. Thereās is not another qb on the market that can do what Kyler can do
Dobbs could.
Second highest cap hit next season behind Mahomes. In 4 years Murray wonāt be on this team. What exactly is it that Murray can do? Miss open receivers on a 4th down? Fall down in the pocket when no one touches him? Throw for very average numbers? There are a lot of QBs on the market that can do that.
Even with his cap hit this team has 80-100m in cap space next year so that is irrelevant. He can improvise better than any other qb in the league outside of mahomes or Lamar Jackson. He has great arm talent and is easily a top 10 qb talent and would excel in any team with some talent on offense. Heās playing with a bunch of no names and rookies. They didnāt make any signings this offseason. This team is basically stripped down to nothing in the midst of a rebuild and you expect Kepler to be throwing for 300 yards and 2 Tds every week. He has 250 and a rushing TD today with no turnovers yet somehow thatās not good enough?
> He can improvise better than any other qb in the league outside of mahomes or Lamar Jackson. This is beyond homerism. This is straight up delusional. Burrow, Hurts, Allen, Herbert, Tua, and probably Lawrence are all better at improvising this season. Hell you could probably put Purdy in there too. > He has great arm talent and is easily a top 10 qb talent His arm talent is only at throwing far. His arm ātalentā missed open receivers on that early 4th down and under threw Hollywood again this week. Heās not an accurate passer and he struggles reading defenses. Heās not a top 10 qb especially after last season and three games so far this year. Look up any experts list of top 10 QBs and Murray wonāt be there. Heās the third best qb in the division. And probably the worst when you factor cap hit into it. > He has 250 and a rushing TD today with no turnovers yet somehow thatās not good enough? At his salary no. Heās an average qb right now which isnāt what weāre paying him to be.
Compare the roster of every one of the QBs to the roster of the cardinals then get back to me. Herbert is getting skunked by the ravens as we speak. Tua had 2 interceptions and a fumble this weekend on 243 passing and 1 TD, Burrow no comment needed, hurts has a Super Bowl caliber roster and same with Purdy. Kyler is capable of doing anything those guys are doing. Also the majority of the guys you listed are getting paid more than Kyler. Majority of teams in the NFL would love Kyler and heād probably excel.
Even when Kyler had a good roster around him his peak was getting curbstomped in the playoffs and throwing the worst pick six in playoff history. Allen is the only one being paid more this season. Watch next offseason when we try and trade Kyler. Weāll be lucky to get what we got for Rosen. No one wants him at that salary.
No his peak with a good roster was 7-1 and in conversations for MVP until he literally hit his receiver in the back. That was followed by injuries to him, dhop, James Conner, multiple Oline men , etc. his cap hit is high the next 2 seasons but quickly falls off. Also you are wrong again about how much heās getting paid. Right now Burrow, Herbert, Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurts, and Russel Wilson are all getting paid more than him. His cap hit this year is 11th among all QBs. Next year it will be very high then it will fall off sharply. As you can see even players with High Cap hits(Dak, Mahomes, Lamar, Jared Goff) are all on good teams who are winning. You keep bringing up his contract as if itās a huge hinderance but really itās not. He has a huge cap hit next year but even with that the team will still have 80-100m in cap to spend. Using that with good drafting can turn this team around in a couple of years. If they draft a QB they will be trash for another 3 year at least while we wait for them to develop and try to fill holes
:(
Iām not so sure about this bus Iām on. I miss the Dbacks.
Itās the $20 bus to Vegas. We are currently stuck in Kingman.
Or worse, Golden Valley
Feels more like Wikieup
Nothing AZ https://maps.app.goo.gl/ePRLQQA79WHziPfRA