Sounds like this is a development year for the entire team which is fine.
They want K1 to do different things so this whole evaluation thing isn’t happening at all. This year is dedicated to learning but what a rough time to be a fan.
I get the Kyler haters wanting to move on...but do they really think Caleb Williams/Drake Maye are significant upgrades?
Just my opinion, but I can't see either guy coming here and being significantly better...especially when you have to factor in Kyler's deadcap hit for roster construction.
Even if we move on from kyler, we have glaring needs all over. We need to build a solid team while we have kyler. When his contract is done, then move on, and we'll have a solid team around that new QB. If we keep wasting picks on QBs without a team surrounding that new QB, we'll just be the west coast panthers snagging up first round QBs and sucking every single year.
Just a question here.
My concern with people saying “we need to build a team first” is that let’s say we nail next years draft and some of the rookies this last season really come into their own. Then the team wins 6-8 games. How are we supposed to draft a QB if we want to move off of Kyler. We won’t have a high enough pick
Most great quarterbacks are not top 1st round picks. Even a mediocre quarterback is good behind a great team. Awesome quarterbacks get shredded behind bad teams. Carson Palmer, Andrew luck for example. To be fair teams are getting better with their QB choice lately, but it's still very hit and miss.
Let K1 cook!
From the article:
“In the 12 games Murray has carried the football at least 10 times, the QB and the Cardinals sports a 10-2 record.
Widen that metric to at least five totes per game for Murray and Arizona is still over .500 at 26-20.”
I truly understand the Kyler haters' frustration. But really nothing has changed to further prove their points. Everyone was pumped after we pulled off the Atlanta win, then Houston and the fucking Rams pressured and sacked the shit out of him. 3 and 4 sacks respectively but any other QB it would have been a lot more.
We know he can throw the ball and is in the top 5 conversation in doing so. And didn't we lead the league in new starters this year? What kind of live snaps were our receivers getting with Dobbs who was generally awful over 10 yards? (with some nice ones sprinkled in there).
Next season is when he's truly on the hot seat with all of our incoming talent and time to get first team snaps and learn his weapons. It took Wilson more games than this to get in the flow of his system and he's got a way better team. Shouldn't Kyler get next year too?
Kingsbury’s offense started 2021 at 7-0 and was top tier until Murray went down with another injury and was never the same.
Injuries-including Murray AGAIN-destroyed the team in 2022 with the Cardinals down to a fourth string QB starting a game plus Hopkins missing the first six games thanks to a PED suspension.
Arians stumbled in his last season when Carson Palmer was lost to injury.
How’s that Gannon/Petzing offense doing so far by comparison?
The league figured Kingsbury's offense out and he never adjusted, no matter how well Kyler played. In comparison, there is more balance and potential with Gannon/Petzing's offense. We also had a reliable OL at that time , much better than the current one.
You think it's his footwork that holding him back? Murray already has said that he's having trouble picking up the offense. That's nuts. He's been studying the playbook and working with Drew since March and he still is struggling with it? It's like going back to Jake "The Snake" Plummer. His best version was when he improvised and wasn't in a structured offense. Maybe that's Kyler, as well.
from a recent azcentral article:
**It was awkward,” Murray said last week about having to make the footwork switch. “For me, I’d been doing that for 15-plus years, right foot up. Now having to switch, luckily, I’m coordinated enough to get it down.
“It’s still kind of a mind trick in my head with the feet and the drops that I’ve been doing my whole life and having to time them up now to what they’re wanting. But it’s been good so far.”
Petzing acknowledged that Murray can make plays with “dirty feet” or in his mind, improper footwork, but he’s adamant that the left foot-first approach is the ideal way to go, adding last week, “He’s picked it up as fast if not faster than most of the guys I’ve seen make the transition.”
Murray still has some issues with the change in footwork dynamics and some of his timing on drop-back situations, though. It’s shown up at times during obvious pass-rush situations and perceived pass-rush situations. The important thing, Petzing said, is that Murray embraced the change from the start and he’ll only get better at it the more he plays.
“When we first got here and he was going through his rehab, it’s something like, ‘Hey, this is how we do it. We’re going to show you examples of why. We’re going to show what we’re looking for,’ and it’s something he can do on his own when he hits the field**
You're being disingenuous. He hasn't said he's had trouble picking up the offense, he's said he's having trouble with the foot work, because everything is now flipped. Once he gets enough reps, he should be fine. Blocking TJ Watt would help, too, but you know, whatever.
When a right tackle flips from the right side to the left side for the first time, everyone acknowledges that it takes time. Why can't the same be true for Kyler?
Outside of my Reddit bubble, unfortunately, I have yet to find a Cardinals fan that is stoked about Murray. I read this article and it really seems like the coaches are taking the kid gloves off. I do hope it does work out. My hope is the footwork thing is a blip that allows Kyler to bring it to the next level.
It’s about time the coaches took the kid gloves off, he was pampered and catered to the first few seasons, which weren’t terrible, but I don’t think any quarterback should have a heavy say in who is in the offense. I truly hope to see good things from him as he has so much freaking potential it’s coming out of his hair. He just needs to grow up a bit and act like a pro or fake it til he makes it.
We are in a position to move on. Kyler is not 100% on the roster next year. I personally want Kyler to work out for us. I've been a big Stan of his since we drafted gim. To me he has the capacity to me a Mahomes/Lamar combo, which is extremely rare. The problem is, he's inconsistent and breakable. And therefore he's in the hot seat when we are in a position for Drake Maye or Caleb Williams.
This is the big league: if you don't perform, you get moved on. He has to prove it or we trade him. He's no safe simply because we like him, or because he has potential. He needs results, consistent results.
I still hope the pick is MHJ even if Kyler struggles the rest of the year. Not sure that either Caleb or Drake Maye look good enough to eat Kyler's contract hit.
I get Kyler can be frustrating, but it doesn't make sense to move on from him unless we're absolutely certain the new guy is a huge upgrade...and I just don't see it personally.
I 100% want Kyler at even a consistent 75-80+% potential, because that + MHJ is an amazing combo. For the record I'm team Kyler + MHJ, but I also understand this is a multi billion dollar business they're running, and if they're top product doesn't perform then they have to move on.
I'm not one of the typical homers here who hates Caleb because he cried or painted his nails...but I still can't see him as a major upgrade to Kyler. I don't think Maye is all that good and Daniels would struggle immensely with this roster.
If Kyler was in the final year or two of his contract, I'd completely understand moving on from him if his play doesn't improve. However, with his current contract...it'll be hell on our cap and immediately puts Caleb/Maye/Daniels/whoever in a position to fail. Especially if we can't sign or draft a WR1...losing Hollywood as well would also make it incredibly difficult even though I don't think he's a WR1.
A rookie QB with this roster and hamstrung by Kyler's contract just feels like another multiyear disaster. By the time we're in a financial position to compete with this new QB...it'll be time to pay them.
Of course, if you think Caleb is a bonafide stud...I do get why with that thinking that it's easier to move on from Kyler.
He has the opportunity to play us out of the pick that would be his replacement. I think that’s what it would take to not replace him. I hope he does succeed.
I don't believe that anymore. I have to think that based on what everyone (Monti and JG included) have seen, you can't start all over with an unimpressive Maye or Williams just because Kyler doesn't look great 10 months post-op with a bad OL, bad WR corps and guys like Roy Lopez and Starling Thomas IV on defense trying to get him the ball back with a lead on the other side of the ball.
There's a good chance we finish with 2-3 wins, the 2nd or 3rd pick and we still take MHJ or an OT to help Kyler moving forward instead of outright replace him. I think it's possible he looks better down the stretch and we're still in position or close to the 1st or 2nd overall pick AND they decide to keep him, understanding that he'll look much better next year with a better OL, defense, WR corps, time in the new system, and at full health.
“The QB’s stat line through the air has done little to invoke much reassurance, too, with Murray completing 61.7% of his passes for 719 yards and two touchdowns to two interceptions for a QBR of 47.5.”
It's so disingenuous to list his passing TDs but not his rushing TDs. Like he probably could have thrown passing TDs from the 1 and 2 yard line but his legs let him score without ever putting the ball at risk. Between having a good short yard RB like Conner and his own ability to run in the redzone for easy scores, ofcourse he's not going to have goddy passing TD numbers.
It's not disingenuous to talk only about his passing stats in a single expert related to his passing. They talk about his rushing later in the article. To be clear, I'm rooting for Murray. It's better for our team for him to be the guy as opposed to spending another pick on a QB. I want him to succeed.
I think it is because the idea of the excerpt is to paint him as a bad passer because of those stats. Like with Pitcher wins in baseball, it's just entirely misleading because tds happen a variety of ways. Like I remember haters after the ATL game citing him not throwing a td as a reason we should move off him despite one td being vultured by tune and another possible td being foregone to run out the clock instead. You can't just look at passing stats in a vacuum with Kyler because he's not just a passing qb.
Sure, but the article isn't just talking about his passing stats. It talks about his rushing (stating that he's doing it well, and should be running more), how he's doing learning offense, some coaching comments on him, etc. If anything is disingenuous, it's OP for pulling this one sentence and making it a separate comment.
Your last sentence is mostly what I mean. You can list passing stats without tds and I think it's more honest conversation. Tds are just way too subjective a stat if you aren't using total TDs
I hope so. I've always rooted for Murray and haven't wavered till now. I really want to see some smarter football. I want to see him make his finest moves before the ball snaps. I don't want to see him win on talent and ability alone.
Sounds like this is a development year for the entire team which is fine. They want K1 to do different things so this whole evaluation thing isn’t happening at all. This year is dedicated to learning but what a rough time to be a fan.
I get the Kyler haters wanting to move on...but do they really think Caleb Williams/Drake Maye are significant upgrades? Just my opinion, but I can't see either guy coming here and being significantly better...especially when you have to factor in Kyler's deadcap hit for roster construction.
Even if we move on from kyler, we have glaring needs all over. We need to build a solid team while we have kyler. When his contract is done, then move on, and we'll have a solid team around that new QB. If we keep wasting picks on QBs without a team surrounding that new QB, we'll just be the west coast panthers snagging up first round QBs and sucking every single year.
Just a question here. My concern with people saying “we need to build a team first” is that let’s say we nail next years draft and some of the rookies this last season really come into their own. Then the team wins 6-8 games. How are we supposed to draft a QB if we want to move off of Kyler. We won’t have a high enough pick
Most great quarterbacks are not top 1st round picks. Even a mediocre quarterback is good behind a great team. Awesome quarterbacks get shredded behind bad teams. Carson Palmer, Andrew luck for example. To be fair teams are getting better with their QB choice lately, but it's still very hit and miss.
Let K1 cook! From the article: “In the 12 games Murray has carried the football at least 10 times, the QB and the Cardinals sports a 10-2 record. Widen that metric to at least five totes per game for Murray and Arizona is still over .500 at 26-20.”
I truly understand the Kyler haters' frustration. But really nothing has changed to further prove their points. Everyone was pumped after we pulled off the Atlanta win, then Houston and the fucking Rams pressured and sacked the shit out of him. 3 and 4 sacks respectively but any other QB it would have been a lot more. We know he can throw the ball and is in the top 5 conversation in doing so. And didn't we lead the league in new starters this year? What kind of live snaps were our receivers getting with Dobbs who was generally awful over 10 yards? (with some nice ones sprinkled in there). Next season is when he's truly on the hot seat with all of our incoming talent and time to get first team snaps and learn his weapons. It took Wilson more games than this to get in the flow of his system and he's got a way better team. Shouldn't Kyler get next year too?
[удалено]
Kingsbury’s offense started 2021 at 7-0 and was top tier until Murray went down with another injury and was never the same. Injuries-including Murray AGAIN-destroyed the team in 2022 with the Cardinals down to a fourth string QB starting a game plus Hopkins missing the first six games thanks to a PED suspension. Arians stumbled in his last season when Carson Palmer was lost to injury. How’s that Gannon/Petzing offense doing so far by comparison?
The league figured Kingsbury's offense out and he never adjusted, no matter how well Kyler played. In comparison, there is more balance and potential with Gannon/Petzing's offense. We also had a reliable OL at that time , much better than the current one.
You think it's his footwork that holding him back? Murray already has said that he's having trouble picking up the offense. That's nuts. He's been studying the playbook and working with Drew since March and he still is struggling with it? It's like going back to Jake "The Snake" Plummer. His best version was when he improvised and wasn't in a structured offense. Maybe that's Kyler, as well.
from a recent azcentral article: **It was awkward,” Murray said last week about having to make the footwork switch. “For me, I’d been doing that for 15-plus years, right foot up. Now having to switch, luckily, I’m coordinated enough to get it down. “It’s still kind of a mind trick in my head with the feet and the drops that I’ve been doing my whole life and having to time them up now to what they’re wanting. But it’s been good so far.” Petzing acknowledged that Murray can make plays with “dirty feet” or in his mind, improper footwork, but he’s adamant that the left foot-first approach is the ideal way to go, adding last week, “He’s picked it up as fast if not faster than most of the guys I’ve seen make the transition.” Murray still has some issues with the change in footwork dynamics and some of his timing on drop-back situations, though. It’s shown up at times during obvious pass-rush situations and perceived pass-rush situations. The important thing, Petzing said, is that Murray embraced the change from the start and he’ll only get better at it the more he plays. “When we first got here and he was going through his rehab, it’s something like, ‘Hey, this is how we do it. We’re going to show you examples of why. We’re going to show what we’re looking for,’ and it’s something he can do on his own when he hits the field** You're being disingenuous. He hasn't said he's had trouble picking up the offense, he's said he's having trouble with the foot work, because everything is now flipped. Once he gets enough reps, he should be fine. Blocking TJ Watt would help, too, but you know, whatever. When a right tackle flips from the right side to the left side for the first time, everyone acknowledges that it takes time. Why can't the same be true for Kyler?
He may have been reading it but he hasn’t been practicing it until a few weeks ago. It’s not entirely the same
Outside of my Reddit bubble, unfortunately, I have yet to find a Cardinals fan that is stoked about Murray. I read this article and it really seems like the coaches are taking the kid gloves off. I do hope it does work out. My hope is the footwork thing is a blip that allows Kyler to bring it to the next level.
It’s about time the coaches took the kid gloves off, he was pampered and catered to the first few seasons, which weren’t terrible, but I don’t think any quarterback should have a heavy say in who is in the offense. I truly hope to see good things from him as he has so much freaking potential it’s coming out of his hair. He just needs to grow up a bit and act like a pro or fake it til he makes it.
We are in a position to move on. Kyler is not 100% on the roster next year. I personally want Kyler to work out for us. I've been a big Stan of his since we drafted gim. To me he has the capacity to me a Mahomes/Lamar combo, which is extremely rare. The problem is, he's inconsistent and breakable. And therefore he's in the hot seat when we are in a position for Drake Maye or Caleb Williams. This is the big league: if you don't perform, you get moved on. He has to prove it or we trade him. He's no safe simply because we like him, or because he has potential. He needs results, consistent results.
I still hope the pick is MHJ even if Kyler struggles the rest of the year. Not sure that either Caleb or Drake Maye look good enough to eat Kyler's contract hit. I get Kyler can be frustrating, but it doesn't make sense to move on from him unless we're absolutely certain the new guy is a huge upgrade...and I just don't see it personally.
I 100% want Kyler at even a consistent 75-80+% potential, because that + MHJ is an amazing combo. For the record I'm team Kyler + MHJ, but I also understand this is a multi billion dollar business they're running, and if they're top product doesn't perform then they have to move on.
I'm not one of the typical homers here who hates Caleb because he cried or painted his nails...but I still can't see him as a major upgrade to Kyler. I don't think Maye is all that good and Daniels would struggle immensely with this roster. If Kyler was in the final year or two of his contract, I'd completely understand moving on from him if his play doesn't improve. However, with his current contract...it'll be hell on our cap and immediately puts Caleb/Maye/Daniels/whoever in a position to fail. Especially if we can't sign or draft a WR1...losing Hollywood as well would also make it incredibly difficult even though I don't think he's a WR1. A rookie QB with this roster and hamstrung by Kyler's contract just feels like another multiyear disaster. By the time we're in a financial position to compete with this new QB...it'll be time to pay them. Of course, if you think Caleb is a bonafide stud...I do get why with that thinking that it's easier to move on from Kyler.
In a position to move on???? You don't understand the salary cap at all huh?
Read that first sentence and stopped lol at that point I just knew he was yappjn
He has the opportunity to play us out of the pick that would be his replacement. I think that’s what it would take to not replace him. I hope he does succeed.
I don't believe that anymore. I have to think that based on what everyone (Monti and JG included) have seen, you can't start all over with an unimpressive Maye or Williams just because Kyler doesn't look great 10 months post-op with a bad OL, bad WR corps and guys like Roy Lopez and Starling Thomas IV on defense trying to get him the ball back with a lead on the other side of the ball. There's a good chance we finish with 2-3 wins, the 2nd or 3rd pick and we still take MHJ or an OT to help Kyler moving forward instead of outright replace him. I think it's possible he looks better down the stretch and we're still in position or close to the 1st or 2nd overall pick AND they decide to keep him, understanding that he'll look much better next year with a better OL, defense, WR corps, time in the new system, and at full health.
“The QB’s stat line through the air has done little to invoke much reassurance, too, with Murray completing 61.7% of his passes for 719 yards and two touchdowns to two interceptions for a QBR of 47.5.”
It's so disingenuous to list his passing TDs but not his rushing TDs. Like he probably could have thrown passing TDs from the 1 and 2 yard line but his legs let him score without ever putting the ball at risk. Between having a good short yard RB like Conner and his own ability to run in the redzone for easy scores, ofcourse he's not going to have goddy passing TD numbers.
It's not disingenuous to talk only about his passing stats in a single expert related to his passing. They talk about his rushing later in the article. To be clear, I'm rooting for Murray. It's better for our team for him to be the guy as opposed to spending another pick on a QB. I want him to succeed.
I think it is because the idea of the excerpt is to paint him as a bad passer because of those stats. Like with Pitcher wins in baseball, it's just entirely misleading because tds happen a variety of ways. Like I remember haters after the ATL game citing him not throwing a td as a reason we should move off him despite one td being vultured by tune and another possible td being foregone to run out the clock instead. You can't just look at passing stats in a vacuum with Kyler because he's not just a passing qb.
Sure, but the article isn't just talking about his passing stats. It talks about his rushing (stating that he's doing it well, and should be running more), how he's doing learning offense, some coaching comments on him, etc. If anything is disingenuous, it's OP for pulling this one sentence and making it a separate comment.
Your last sentence is mostly what I mean. You can list passing stats without tds and I think it's more honest conversation. Tds are just way too subjective a stat if you aren't using total TDs
I hope so. I've always rooted for Murray and haven't wavered till now. I really want to see some smarter football. I want to see him make his finest moves before the ball snaps. I don't want to see him win on talent and ability alone.
Could you imagine the power that could be unlocked if he improved pre-snap coupled with his talent and ability? Oh boy would that be fun