I used to be the youngest, 13 years later now I’m one of the oldest non vp or cfo. Why is that? Most people have left the industry to do some else less toxic
Very rare. The dad or mom probably owns the company, and the kid is given a high title. That’s how I see it happening mostly. Where I’m at, I’d stay the rest of my working career if they let me. Only thing I will blow up at is other departments dumping work on accounting when they shouldn’t
You can get the very rare case where the kid is a good person and understands the struggle of normal life but I just don’t see that happening very often. My work the ceo was given the job for her parents. Who bought the company for 10 million so she was from privileged upbringing. She’s good but there is still a disconnect.
It's definitely uncommon. Working at other companies that aren't connected to your family can help with this.
I think if your only experience is with the family business then it's a huge red flag.
If you're not at a higher level within 3 years then it's probably time to move on. Either they're choosing not to promote you or the org is so flat that there's no opportunity to move up.
I’ve moved up two spots. I don’t want to move up any further, you vp or director level you have to manage people and politics. Neither I’m interested in
Nice. Then you're at that sweet spot. I have no intention of wanting to become a VP or a director either (at least at this moment).
I'm not a big title person tbh. I like being valued and thought of as a real asset, having a work life balance and being paid well. Rest is meh to me
there's a whole bunch of shit wrong with this take, but i will just leave one huge point: companies that have fewer than 50 employees are exempt from some significant labor laws, such as FMLA. nobody wants to think that they need those protections until they do.
To add to that -
1.) buy your tickets at least 12 hours before the drawing and no sooner.
2.) don’t buy it at a national chain, but a small local outfit.
3) make sure you purchase smokes and beer along with the lottery ticket.
Like WTF. Just because it worked this way for OP doesn’t mean it is a general strategy.
I think it’s a valid point but depends on what state you live in. If you’re in California, you can still get great maternity leave via the state. I personally took 5 months and could have done six months but was too chicken to do it but I will take full advantage next baby.
Right. For instance, you're not guaranteed paternity leave when your wife has a kid, where's as with fmla, you are. I learned this the hard way, and it fucking sucked. Almost left the company due to this situation.
Obviously both your and mine experience are anecdotal but hard disagree.
I was in a situation that matched what you said to a T. CEO relatively young, smaller firm and I knew everyone. In accounting but worked on roles in developing the tech side of it (private equity company geared to pensioners).
Nope nope nope, it was toxic as he'll and turn over was super high. Tons and tons of work but never any recognition and it was always an expected not a favour.
Yeah that sounds awful. The difference here is I get recognition, it's never expected that I do more but am also rewarded by doing more.
There still is a bit of turnover but everyone who left did so because they wouldn't negotiate and expected larger pay increases at reviews without bringing it up. If you're not willing to assert what you should get paid then you're likely to be disappointed imo.
I mean your second point about not getting paid IS the very meaning of not getting recognition... You work to get paid , objective #1.
A pat on the back is nice but with no monetary recognition means fuck all.
I can see how it's a bit confusing.
Negotiations that lead to no pay raises is absolutely recognition that they don't value you.
Negotiations that lead to pay raises is recognition that they value you.
If you don't negotiate then you could be valued but are unwilling to value yourself. I've seen a few coworkers mix up being unwilling to negotiate with begging. As in, "I'm not going to beg for a raise." I don't think of it like that at all. To me it's an uncomfortable conversation that you have to be willing to have.
Once I read that you should look for companies with poor tech or transitioning tech, I realized this is a shit post. Changing any systems is usually a horrible experience and causes a lot of turnover when not executed properly.
This list is essentially everything I dont look for in a job
I did this once. Went to a small business in the construction industry using Sage 50. A few days later he told me he was switching to Sage 100 (a program I'd never seen before) which is basical a baby ERP system for small to mid-sized companies. He assumed that it worked the same as Sage 50.
It doesn't.
Lots of work... and I rocked it... but the overtime????🤣
We are going through this right now and yes it’s a lot but being able to have a day in the matter has been invaluable to adoption of said product. So I’ll it’s still worth it.
Same.
I just left a small, family owned company and it was a nightmare. That same flexibility they use to give you those big raises is also used to terminate you without warning if you piss the wrong person off.
Give me a bigger company any day of the week.
What got me to just stop reading was “identify a company with poor tech stack” transitioning softwares or even accounting systems is a multi-year painful process for any small company that’s not transitioning from quickbooks to xero or some smaller scale software like those. Even from Quickbooks to a more sophisticated software is painful.
Exactly. I don’t understand why an accountant is doing this. We have business system teams in the Finance org that deploy software for us and know the stakeholders in Finance (Reporting, Treasury, AP, Tax, FP&A, etc.) so they customize the software for our needs. They have a background in both IT & Finance.
Much better deployment experience over the accounting team hiring Accenture, Deloitte or RSM for technology consulting and managing them directly. We will still hire them but now that we have a business systems team, the business system teams will manage them.
I had a similar experience. I started at an 80 person firm, and I worked more hours during fall busy season than I ever worked during spring bush season at a national firm. In my experience, larger companies offer better pay, benefits, and more promotion opportunities. They’re more competitive, but they tend to attract more talented people. Small companies tend to attract people who can’t make it anywhere else and also can’t really be fired because it would take months to replace them.
I've actually been a property accountant for a small company (120 employees) and it was crap. You are always cleaning up mess, no damn efficient processes or systems so you're a broom and rag literally. Lmao I didn't like being on a team of 5 recent grads as a recent grad
Yeah. I do not miss that life. I inherited about 7 properties, a couple had outparcels and only 2 reconciled month to month. The recs were not set up proper. The bank accounts were not defined. Just a mess
Also a property accountant and I left my previous company for a new smaller growing company with more potential for moving up. Spent almost two years stressed out always cleaning up messes with no time to create actual processes and then got laid off because the owner (the son of the original owner) decided to outsource accounting. Learned my lesson about small companies that are “like a family”.
You had the perfect chance to make something better and failed. Don't just clean up messes. Find ways to make sure they can't happen again. Create some simple presentations and cost benefit analysis showing benefits of buying some new tech or adjustments to processes. These are the people I'm promoting.
I’m not a corporate climber and have no interest in it. This was not a job with promotion opportunities because of the structure. The errors we were running into, we needed support just to solve. I didn’t even know what I didn’t know. Entry level roles shouldn’t expect "innovators" that first 1-2 years.
There was no promotion because you didn't deserve it. Even at 1-2 years you can still figure it out. That's what gets you promoted. Don't make excuses and figure it out and get promoted.
> • Identify a company with a poor tech stack that is transitioning to new tech.
You’ve clearly never actually worked on a large scale system implementation. This shit is the worst work ever and nobody would *deliberately* seek it out.
Small companies are trash. You might find good ones here and there but there is a reason why everyone tries to work at large companies, everything is generally better: pay, benefits, processes, coworker backgrounds, tech, way better exit opportunities
If you’re getting those increases then it means you were underpaid. It’s better to be overpaid for your role
Yeah small company= no upward movement, wildly varied job duties, terrible benefits, no time to take vacation, more coworker drama being in an intimate group, less likely remote opp. Not sure what this guy is smoking.
That's definitely true. I went from working for a small company with less than 20 employees to a company of thousands of employees and I was able to be promoted within a year from Staff Accountant to Senior Accountant. Besides good pay, I have flexible schedule and unlimited PTO. I'm sure no small company would be able to offer me those benefits.
It depends on the company but yeah I would agree with this except for vehemently disagreeing with the last bullet point. If you want to be a good controller or CFO eventually it's important you know how to do the whole books. I did something similar at a company I did a bunch of process improvements entries that took half a day took 30 minutes top with a review. Whole bunch of other ad hoc projects. Got a 4% raise. Once you put these processes in place you still have to be a value add.
I have been at nothing but small offices and I have to disagree.
I think they are great for later-career accountants who are ready to start dialing back. I do not think they are great for younger accountants who are looking to grow.
My current office is 20 people. They are starting to hire within my age bracket because retirement is coming for a lot of them; however, they aren’t great teachers. They are so pigeon-holed in what they do and don’t have “time” to delegate to us newer associates, leaving most of us without work and not progressing in our careers. Then we are finally handed work and when we don’t know how to do it or take too long trying to figure it out, we are chastised for it and have it taken from us.
I’m actually looking for an out but stressed I may have spent too long here not doing much.
So, yeah. I think you have to be in a comfortable spot already in your career typically to enjoy a small firm.
Depends. I spent a lot of my career at smaller offices. Depending on the industry a more entry level person can get a larger range of experience because their duties are not quite as pigeon-holed as with a larger firm.
Flip side... whether that small business is good to work at is very very very dependent on who owns it.
Lol this whole post is “my experience must be universal, so let me teach you.” Fyi not everyone needs the things your company needs. Glad it worked for you! But it’s not enough to be giving advice.
I wasn't intentionally trying to give off that impression. I'm just sharing what has worked for me and what the parameters were. I've left comments where I think certain parameters could turn this job from being a gem to a lemon.
Happy it's working for you, but the whole point of Public is that no matter how long you stay in it, a safety net of lower stress, higher paying opportunities follows you everywhere you go. It's a stamp on your resume. It's grad school for accountants. Its the most prestigious accounting experience on offer. Other routes may have their perks, but you are not in the main vein - which is the whole point of public.
I kind of agree, but I can’t compare I never worked for a large firm. I work for a small tax firm , and my pay and work hours are much better than the ones posted by B4 and regional firms. You can easily become extremely valuable at a small firm, the partner will have to pay you a premium to stay and deal with the small firm bullshit.
I had the opposite experience at a small tax firm. The pay was pretty good, but the hours were awful and I work fewer hours at the national firm I’m at now. A few small firms have it dialed in, but many are just dumpster fires that are barely keeping it together.
Oh I agree, they are dumpster fires! I try to contain the shit show between the Partner and Manager level. I do not allow it to leak into the senior and associate level. They would all quit lol
Interesting to see what you are focusing on at your job and why you like it. wtf you going on about tech lol. what does that even mean? What tech? Like heated floors or do they have software that allows you to just input for your job instead of thinking?
This sub favors automation far too much. Yes, automating is a good thing, but if your accounting skills aren’t where they should be, you will hit a wall.
Anybody can automate things when you know the final solution. You want to know why your boomer boss makes triple your income despite not knowing how to use a pivot table? It’s because he doesn’t need to know how to use a pivot table, he’ll just have you do it for him. But he can’t outsource his accounting knowledge, because that’s what keeps him around.
Everyone’s experience is anecdotal and I’m glad you found a place that values you. I was at a smaller private company and my boss always rejected my ideas. I took the job initially because I wanted out of public asap. The work wasn’t too difficult, but there was a lot to do.
My suggestions were about process improvements and my boss never wanted to deal with the issues that would come up if we changed any process. Even though these new changes would save everyone hours of manual work. Anyways now I’m at a better company where my boss loves process improvements/automation etc.
Dude is gonna automate his job and then get fired after they realize that giving him ridiculous raises over the years makes having him expensive and unnecessary 😂
I wouldn't be upset by it given that I like limiting myself to 5 years at a workplace. I'm not exactly looking to max out my pay and just chill. I would be incredibly bored and unhappy.
People with strong tool kits aren't really worried about testing the job market.
I avoid a small offices like the plague. Unless you like booking the owners personal expenses as business expenses…. Then watching them pay you shittely while they blow through hundreds of thousands of company money on their own personal shit.
I think more broadly about your recommendations about new tech and automation. I think it's good to find a company that rewards efficiencies, but it doesn't have to be with new tech. If task requirements are consist year round and you know what to expect no matter what the tech or process is you can find ways to improve Efficiency and save yourself time. I.e early in my career I spent time on making a really complicated if function, that I was able to reuse over and over to save me a lot of time. Other people in the office had been doing it by hand for 10 plus years... That organization allowed me to spend the saved time on stuff I wanted to work on or even be on my phone, and i was happy. At my current firm, they are sticklers about using their methods and work papers to complete tasks.. I see no room for growth here only more and more work. If I complete tasks early, I'm rewarded with more slave work. So I think there's some merits in what you said but I don't think they need to be so specific.
I'm in industry at a huge public company. I have legitimate work life balance, and insane benefits. I have the best Healthcare out of anyone I know. Big companies can have big benefits.
I work in medical. 5 of us total. CFO, controller, 2 staff accountants, and the payroll/AP person.
I LOVE this job. The CFO is a good human. The controller is actively egalitarian. I've heard her check herself before when she was speaking in an unfair manner about another department. The other staff accountant is even more introverted than me.
I couldn't ask for more other than money. But even the money is good
Small teams. I agree.
I think many people write off smaller workplaces but if they're good businesses run by good people then there's a lot of potential imo. Here's to small offices!
You’re talking about transformation finance and system implementation and whatever you’re getting paid as a property accountant is going to be way below the market rate for these guys.
You’re getting played working this shit if it’s what you’re interested in. Hot tip, get out asap and find a role in transformation finance - it’s hard to come by someone who actually likes that stuff and as such they’re rewarded well for it.
I'll look into it. Thanks!
Even if I'm paid less than what I could make I can say I'm genuinely very happy where I am, at least for now until all systems are in place and then I'll probably move on. I love rebuilding shit systems from the ground up.
Cannot say I agree with this at all. I've worked at both a local accounting firm with less than 50 employees and at a Big4. The culture at the Big4, while far from perfect, was way less toxic than the local firm.
Hey Skippy? What do you do when all these automations you glued together with Zapier, scotch tape, and zigzag paper get replaced with something like Netsuite, or in your business Yardi? Oops…I guess I should have developed a high-level skillset! Whoopsie daisie.
100% this, good way to put it. Definetely how it is at my company now. 30 people (20 deal team / private equity group & 10 on accounting/analysis). I hired an accountant under me to delegate all the transactional work and now im spending most my time building a django/react app to automate the bullshit (reporting, etc).
I'll always partly wonder what it would've been like to work at a big 4, but from the way our auditors look it seems unhealthy. Glad to start here and hoping it continues to get better 😎
Nice! Yeah this is a great post, great for people in their 20s to read. The job market is tough. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Sounds like you’re doing good!
I’ll say this, if you’re highly talented and ambitious, go to a smaller office where they will be more likely to recognize you. If you just want a job to follow your other life hobbies, don’t go to a small office. Small offices are brutal to underperformance, or even just normal performance.
A lot of this is property accounting specific so most people here think you’re talking about implementing SAP and not something like Yardi. It has its pros and cons, but the main issue is most of theses places are very flat in the accounting department organizationally. So you hit a ceiling pretty quickly. Or pivot into finance.
Spoken like a person only 2 years into their career.
I used to be the youngest, 13 years later now I’m one of the oldest non vp or cfo. Why is that? Most people have left the industry to do some else less toxic
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Very rare. The dad or mom probably owns the company, and the kid is given a high title. That’s how I see it happening mostly. Where I’m at, I’d stay the rest of my working career if they let me. Only thing I will blow up at is other departments dumping work on accounting when they shouldn’t
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Family owned business is the first red flag for a toxic work environment plus limited opportunities for non-family member employees.
Anecdotally speaking this is the furthest thing from the truth. That's why it's imperative you get a good read of the family members.
You can get the very rare case where the kid is a good person and understands the struggle of normal life but I just don’t see that happening very often. My work the ceo was given the job for her parents. Who bought the company for 10 million so she was from privileged upbringing. She’s good but there is still a disconnect.
It's definitely uncommon. Working at other companies that aren't connected to your family can help with this. I think if your only experience is with the family business then it's a huge red flag.
I think she worked other jobs first. As, I will say, she is decent at what she does
Correct.
One with a lot of problems.
If you're not at a higher level within 3 years then it's probably time to move on. Either they're choosing not to promote you or the org is so flat that there's no opportunity to move up.
I’ve moved up two spots. I don’t want to move up any further, you vp or director level you have to manage people and politics. Neither I’m interested in
Nice. Then you're at that sweet spot. I have no intention of wanting to become a VP or a director either (at least at this moment). I'm not a big title person tbh. I like being valued and thought of as a real asset, having a work life balance and being paid well. Rest is meh to me
Same
there's a whole bunch of shit wrong with this take, but i will just leave one huge point: companies that have fewer than 50 employees are exempt from some significant labor laws, such as FMLA. nobody wants to think that they need those protections until they do.
Someone is trying to broadly apply their very nichey niche to everyone. Sounds good doesn’t work.
i played the lottery and won a jackpot, so you should dump all your money in lottery tickets. i'm proof that it works!
To add to that - 1.) buy your tickets at least 12 hours before the drawing and no sooner. 2.) don’t buy it at a national chain, but a small local outfit. 3) make sure you purchase smokes and beer along with the lottery ticket. Like WTF. Just because it worked this way for OP doesn’t mean it is a general strategy.
Got a good laugh out of #3 😂😂😂
I think it’s a valid point but depends on what state you live in. If you’re in California, you can still get great maternity leave via the state. I personally took 5 months and could have done six months but was too chicken to do it but I will take full advantage next baby.
To add to your comment. CA maternity leave falls under the CFRA umbrella.The CA equivalent to FMLA, CFRA, only requires five employees, not fifty.
Industry accounting is small departments in larger entities. My company has about 180 folks on payroll, but only 5 in accounting.
Right. For instance, you're not guaranteed paternity leave when your wife has a kid, where's as with fmla, you are. I learned this the hard way, and it fucking sucked. Almost left the company due to this situation.
Fucking THIS. 1000%
They typically lack any sort of hr.
Not based in the US. Canada has strong labor laws
That would’ve totally been helpful to know in your post. Now I’m wanting to read hot takes from other Canadian bean counters 👀🍿
Obviously both your and mine experience are anecdotal but hard disagree. I was in a situation that matched what you said to a T. CEO relatively young, smaller firm and I knew everyone. In accounting but worked on roles in developing the tech side of it (private equity company geared to pensioners). Nope nope nope, it was toxic as he'll and turn over was super high. Tons and tons of work but never any recognition and it was always an expected not a favour.
Yeah that sounds awful. The difference here is I get recognition, it's never expected that I do more but am also rewarded by doing more. There still is a bit of turnover but everyone who left did so because they wouldn't negotiate and expected larger pay increases at reviews without bringing it up. If you're not willing to assert what you should get paid then you're likely to be disappointed imo.
I mean your second point about not getting paid IS the very meaning of not getting recognition... You work to get paid , objective #1. A pat on the back is nice but with no monetary recognition means fuck all.
I can see how it's a bit confusing. Negotiations that lead to no pay raises is absolutely recognition that they don't value you. Negotiations that lead to pay raises is recognition that they value you. If you don't negotiate then you could be valued but are unwilling to value yourself. I've seen a few coworkers mix up being unwilling to negotiate with begging. As in, "I'm not going to beg for a raise." I don't think of it like that at all. To me it's an uncomfortable conversation that you have to be willing to have.
Once I read that you should look for companies with poor tech or transitioning tech, I realized this is a shit post. Changing any systems is usually a horrible experience and causes a lot of turnover when not executed properly. This list is essentially everything I dont look for in a job
Yea my lord on looking for a company looking to switch erp systems, on top of you having to wear multiple hats, big yikes on your time
Wear multiple hats, but also duplicate hats
It builds character 😂
I did this once. Went to a small business in the construction industry using Sage 50. A few days later he told me he was switching to Sage 100 (a program I'd never seen before) which is basical a baby ERP system for small to mid-sized companies. He assumed that it worked the same as Sage 50. It doesn't. Lots of work... and I rocked it... but the overtime????🤣
We are going through this right now and yes it’s a lot but being able to have a day in the matter has been invaluable to adoption of said product. So I’ll it’s still worth it.
It's not a shit post. I personally love change. Routine tasks day in day out is hell to me.
You should do Consulting then!
Hard disagree with this all but to each their own.
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Same. I just left a small, family owned company and it was a nightmare. That same flexibility they use to give you those big raises is also used to terminate you without warning if you piss the wrong person off. Give me a bigger company any day of the week.
Agreed. Worked at a small family owned company and wouldn’t do that again. So many problems!
What got me to just stop reading was “identify a company with poor tech stack” transitioning softwares or even accounting systems is a multi-year painful process for any small company that’s not transitioning from quickbooks to xero or some smaller scale software like those. Even from Quickbooks to a more sophisticated software is painful.
Exactly. I don’t understand why an accountant is doing this. We have business system teams in the Finance org that deploy software for us and know the stakeholders in Finance (Reporting, Treasury, AP, Tax, FP&A, etc.) so they customize the software for our needs. They have a background in both IT & Finance. Much better deployment experience over the accounting team hiring Accenture, Deloitte or RSM for technology consulting and managing them directly. We will still hire them but now that we have a business systems team, the business system teams will manage them.
I had a similar experience. I started at an 80 person firm, and I worked more hours during fall busy season than I ever worked during spring bush season at a national firm. In my experience, larger companies offer better pay, benefits, and more promotion opportunities. They’re more competitive, but they tend to attract more talented people. Small companies tend to attract people who can’t make it anywhere else and also can’t really be fired because it would take months to replace them.
Agreed the smallest the company the more drama, more work, and old obsolete ERP more manual more time consuming to do simple task.
Spoken like a Linkedin lunatic
I'm not posting about how great my employer is after 2 weeks of being an intern.
I've actually been a property accountant for a small company (120 employees) and it was crap. You are always cleaning up mess, no damn efficient processes or systems so you're a broom and rag literally. Lmao I didn't like being on a team of 5 recent grads as a recent grad
Bro…let me show you this rent roll I have in Google sheets…it’s 180 different colors and fonts with no rhyme or reason and nothing ties to anything
Yeah. I do not miss that life. I inherited about 7 properties, a couple had outparcels and only 2 reconciled month to month. The recs were not set up proper. The bank accounts were not defined. Just a mess
Woof! I will only take this client if I have full control over the setup/bookkeeping, etc. Soup to nuts. That crowd is crazy cheap, too.
Also a property accountant and I left my previous company for a new smaller growing company with more potential for moving up. Spent almost two years stressed out always cleaning up messes with no time to create actual processes and then got laid off because the owner (the son of the original owner) decided to outsource accounting. Learned my lesson about small companies that are “like a family”.
You had the perfect chance to make something better and failed. Don't just clean up messes. Find ways to make sure they can't happen again. Create some simple presentations and cost benefit analysis showing benefits of buying some new tech or adjustments to processes. These are the people I'm promoting.
I’m not a corporate climber and have no interest in it. This was not a job with promotion opportunities because of the structure. The errors we were running into, we needed support just to solve. I didn’t even know what I didn’t know. Entry level roles shouldn’t expect "innovators" that first 1-2 years.
There was no promotion because you didn't deserve it. Even at 1-2 years you can still figure it out. That's what gets you promoted. Don't make excuses and figure it out and get promoted.
Where I'm at property accountants also get paid crap wages in comparison to other industries.
> • Identify a company with a poor tech stack that is transitioning to new tech. You’ve clearly never actually worked on a large scale system implementation. This shit is the worst work ever and nobody would *deliberately* seek it out.
That's kind of the point. It's a mess. Nobody wants to clean it up. I will at the right price. To each their own I guess.
Small companies are trash. You might find good ones here and there but there is a reason why everyone tries to work at large companies, everything is generally better: pay, benefits, processes, coworker backgrounds, tech, way better exit opportunities If you’re getting those increases then it means you were underpaid. It’s better to be overpaid for your role
Yeah small company= no upward movement, wildly varied job duties, terrible benefits, no time to take vacation, more coworker drama being in an intimate group, less likely remote opp. Not sure what this guy is smoking.
Upvoted you. Must be something real good haha
Perhaps he stays hydrated with Kool Aid.
That's definitely true. I went from working for a small company with less than 20 employees to a company of thousands of employees and I was able to be promoted within a year from Staff Accountant to Senior Accountant. Besides good pay, I have flexible schedule and unlimited PTO. I'm sure no small company would be able to offer me those benefits.
It depends on the company but yeah I would agree with this except for vehemently disagreeing with the last bullet point. If you want to be a good controller or CFO eventually it's important you know how to do the whole books. I did something similar at a company I did a bunch of process improvements entries that took half a day took 30 minutes top with a review. Whole bunch of other ad hoc projects. Got a 4% raise. Once you put these processes in place you still have to be a value add.
Lol... what?
I was about to write the SAME EXACT thing while I was scrolling through comments but here, take this upvote. Cus yeah. Like what? Lol
I have been at nothing but small offices and I have to disagree. I think they are great for later-career accountants who are ready to start dialing back. I do not think they are great for younger accountants who are looking to grow. My current office is 20 people. They are starting to hire within my age bracket because retirement is coming for a lot of them; however, they aren’t great teachers. They are so pigeon-holed in what they do and don’t have “time” to delegate to us newer associates, leaving most of us without work and not progressing in our careers. Then we are finally handed work and when we don’t know how to do it or take too long trying to figure it out, we are chastised for it and have it taken from us. I’m actually looking for an out but stressed I may have spent too long here not doing much. So, yeah. I think you have to be in a comfortable spot already in your career typically to enjoy a small firm.
Depends. I spent a lot of my career at smaller offices. Depending on the industry a more entry level person can get a larger range of experience because their duties are not quite as pigeon-holed as with a larger firm. Flip side... whether that small business is good to work at is very very very dependent on who owns it.
Lol this whole post is “my experience must be universal, so let me teach you.” Fyi not everyone needs the things your company needs. Glad it worked for you! But it’s not enough to be giving advice.
I wasn't intentionally trying to give off that impression. I'm just sharing what has worked for me and what the parameters were. I've left comments where I think certain parameters could turn this job from being a gem to a lemon.
“Hot tip: seek a small office” 100% gives off that impression and I’m not sure how you can say otherwise
Well I'm saying otherwise
This post is hilarious and sad at the same time!
Happy it's working for you, but the whole point of Public is that no matter how long you stay in it, a safety net of lower stress, higher paying opportunities follows you everywhere you go. It's a stamp on your resume. It's grad school for accountants. Its the most prestigious accounting experience on offer. Other routes may have their perks, but you are not in the main vein - which is the whole point of public.
I kind of agree, but I can’t compare I never worked for a large firm. I work for a small tax firm , and my pay and work hours are much better than the ones posted by B4 and regional firms. You can easily become extremely valuable at a small firm, the partner will have to pay you a premium to stay and deal with the small firm bullshit.
I had the opposite experience at a small tax firm. The pay was pretty good, but the hours were awful and I work fewer hours at the national firm I’m at now. A few small firms have it dialed in, but many are just dumpster fires that are barely keeping it together.
Oh I agree, they are dumpster fires! I try to contain the shit show between the Partner and Manager level. I do not allow it to leak into the senior and associate level. They would all quit lol
Interesting to see what you are focusing on at your job and why you like it. wtf you going on about tech lol. what does that even mean? What tech? Like heated floors or do they have software that allows you to just input for your job instead of thinking?
I disagree with basically everything in this post
This sub favors automation far too much. Yes, automating is a good thing, but if your accounting skills aren’t where they should be, you will hit a wall. Anybody can automate things when you know the final solution. You want to know why your boomer boss makes triple your income despite not knowing how to use a pivot table? It’s because he doesn’t need to know how to use a pivot table, he’ll just have you do it for him. But he can’t outsource his accounting knowledge, because that’s what keeps him around.
Man just about everybody that came out of college during my time in public needed to focus on accounting because they truly sucked at it.
Hot Tip: get the best job at the biggest company you can
Everyone’s experience is anecdotal and I’m glad you found a place that values you. I was at a smaller private company and my boss always rejected my ideas. I took the job initially because I wanted out of public asap. The work wasn’t too difficult, but there was a lot to do. My suggestions were about process improvements and my boss never wanted to deal with the issues that would come up if we changed any process. Even though these new changes would save everyone hours of manual work. Anyways now I’m at a better company where my boss loves process improvements/automation etc.
Hell no. Small offices are not the way to go.
Dude is gonna automate his job and then get fired after they realize that giving him ridiculous raises over the years makes having him expensive and unnecessary 😂
I wouldn't be upset by it given that I like limiting myself to 5 years at a workplace. I'm not exactly looking to max out my pay and just chill. I would be incredibly bored and unhappy. People with strong tool kits aren't really worried about testing the job market.
Good for you, btw I was just trying to be funny. Meant no disrespect
All good my friend
I avoid a small offices like the plague. Unless you like booking the owners personal expenses as business expenses…. Then watching them pay you shittely while they blow through hundreds of thousands of company money on their own personal shit.
This might be the worst post I’ve ever seen. Even B4 employees aren’t drinking this much kool aid.
If the office has great people, and it compensates well while being 9-5 then give me all the Kool aid.
I think more broadly about your recommendations about new tech and automation. I think it's good to find a company that rewards efficiencies, but it doesn't have to be with new tech. If task requirements are consist year round and you know what to expect no matter what the tech or process is you can find ways to improve Efficiency and save yourself time. I.e early in my career I spent time on making a really complicated if function, that I was able to reuse over and over to save me a lot of time. Other people in the office had been doing it by hand for 10 plus years... That organization allowed me to spend the saved time on stuff I wanted to work on or even be on my phone, and i was happy. At my current firm, they are sticklers about using their methods and work papers to complete tasks.. I see no room for growth here only more and more work. If I complete tasks early, I'm rewarded with more slave work. So I think there's some merits in what you said but I don't think they need to be so specific.
Me reading this working for a firm where I’m one of 2 that works full time. We have different definitions of small firms
Become part of the company family.
More like a hot take
I'm in industry at a huge public company. I have legitimate work life balance, and insane benefits. I have the best Healthcare out of anyone I know. Big companies can have big benefits.
Big companies are def better than public accounting. No argument there.
I work in medical. 5 of us total. CFO, controller, 2 staff accountants, and the payroll/AP person. I LOVE this job. The CFO is a good human. The controller is actively egalitarian. I've heard her check herself before when she was speaking in an unfair manner about another department. The other staff accountant is even more introverted than me. I couldn't ask for more other than money. But even the money is good Small teams. I agree.
I think many people write off smaller workplaces but if they're good businesses run by good people then there's a lot of potential imo. Here's to small offices!
You’re talking about transformation finance and system implementation and whatever you’re getting paid as a property accountant is going to be way below the market rate for these guys. You’re getting played working this shit if it’s what you’re interested in. Hot tip, get out asap and find a role in transformation finance - it’s hard to come by someone who actually likes that stuff and as such they’re rewarded well for it.
I'll look into it. Thanks! Even if I'm paid less than what I could make I can say I'm genuinely very happy where I am, at least for now until all systems are in place and then I'll probably move on. I love rebuilding shit systems from the ground up.
Wow these are great tips! Thanks!
😂😂😂
I hope you’re being sarcastic because I just laughed out loud
The real key is to get into a UNION PROTECTED job like government accounting. That’s the only answer. Fuck everything else.
It's very stable but I'm not sure I'd like the environment as much. Too many internal controls to ever get projects moving fast enough
As long as the direct deposit hits I could Gaf about the projects 🤣
Cannot say I agree with this at all. I've worked at both a local accounting firm with less than 50 employees and at a Big4. The culture at the Big4, while far from perfect, was way less toxic than the local firm.
Small company does not include small accounting firms in my definition. Small companies > big 4 > local accounting firms
Hey Skippy? What do you do when all these automations you glued together with Zapier, scotch tape, and zigzag paper get replaced with something like Netsuite, or in your business Yardi? Oops…I guess I should have developed a high-level skillset! Whoopsie daisie.
100% this, good way to put it. Definetely how it is at my company now. 30 people (20 deal team / private equity group & 10 on accounting/analysis). I hired an accountant under me to delegate all the transactional work and now im spending most my time building a django/react app to automate the bullshit (reporting, etc).
Seek freedom.
I’m with this. Small office work totally revived my career after crashing out of big 4
I'll always partly wonder what it would've been like to work at a big 4, but from the way our auditors look it seems unhealthy. Glad to start here and hoping it continues to get better 😎
Nice! Yeah this is a great post, great for people in their 20s to read. The job market is tough. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Sounds like you’re doing good!
I’ll say this, if you’re highly talented and ambitious, go to a smaller office where they will be more likely to recognize you. If you just want a job to follow your other life hobbies, don’t go to a small office. Small offices are brutal to underperformance, or even just normal performance.
A lot of this is property accounting specific so most people here think you’re talking about implementing SAP and not something like Yardi. It has its pros and cons, but the main issue is most of theses places are very flat in the accounting department organizationally. So you hit a ceiling pretty quickly. Or pivot into finance.
Lol ERP implementation employees would have all been rich af then.
This is just gibberish.