I applied to a fed job once. It took them 18 months to tell me I forgot to include my college transcript.
I reach out to a recruiter for industry and I usually have interviews scheduled the same week.
Am I missing out on not having a cushy pension? Yeah, definitely. But does that provide me enough drive to deal with the atrocious recruiting process? Unfortunately, no. Maybe I’ll regret this when I’m 65. Only time will tell.
the awesome part is that with a Fed job you get both: pension + TSP (Fed 401k) in industry or PA it’s one or the other and not as generous as Uncle Sam. The leave time is addicting and 40 hrs or less the norm. Almost makes up for the sucky office / leadership / coworkers. But hey, you can’t have it all.
I got hired in February. It took just over a year from applying to start. People here ask me if I have any advice to get new hires, and the first thing I say is that they need to speed up the hiring process. I've talked to several friends who are interested but not willing to wait. If you're looking to switch jobs, you're looking to switch right now.
Can confirm.
I got an interview 8 months after I applied. Haven't heard back in any way about whether I've been rejected or moving on in 2 months.
I have a job right now that pays well and is comfortable, so it's not an issue. But the hiring process is fucking insane
Not an accountant (my fiancee is so I browse), but I got an email this week from the Border Patrol asking if I wanted to apply. I had sent in an interest packet in 2014.
I applied for an auditor job with a different agency. My calls and emails went unanswered for 6 months. It turned out that the OPM guy handling my application had retired, and no one picked up his work. 0/10, 1 star, never again.
Lol, had a similar experience with our census reports. We were getting notices that we were delinquent in some filings, but we were sending things in. It was getting serious and it was literally impossible to get anyone to help. So we actually had a lobbyist that worked for us go visit, he checked it out and apparently the guy retired like 4-6 months prior. There was a literal mountain of mail on his desk that no one, even his manager seemed to notice.
Took me 6 months to get hired with IRS but j was working my previous job the entire time. Last day was Friday and the I started the following Monday with IRS.
I really like working for the IRS and recommend it.
Most definitely this. Fix the hiring process and I believe both sides would be happier. It's totally normal to hear people applying for a government job and then finally 16 months later they receive an offer. Would anyone accept that kind of timeline for anything honestly? Maybe I'm just the most impatient person in the world, idk.
It's this. I tried for Chief Counsel 15 years ago. It was abhorrently long and unnecessary questions. For some purpose because no one was reading that stuff.
I looked into government jobs once, and at least for my state, I kind of couldn’t figure out how to apply? They wanted me to print out an application and mail it in, and it asked for information that I didn’t have and/or didn’t make sense for a lower level position. It seemed designed to filter people out.
For me, it is the irs hiring system (aka, hr). I applied late last year to IRS for RA position, filled out application properly, and it took 3 months just to be interviewed. The interview was 2 months ago and I still have not even been given a TJO yet.
For reference, if I did the same process in industry for example, I would literally be starting my first day of work within 5-6 weeks of sending out my application.
Those kinda things matter. I am sticking it out because I want the role. But, a lot of people aren't going to have the patience for IRS HR.
The direct hiring events help cut this time down by a month or so. But even that is negated when the hiring event is not near the area you want to work (which is my personal situation).
For me i feel i have imposter syndrom and when looking at the requirements i see myself as not meeting thlse inspite of me working for a state agency accounting departmsnt
Before I got into accounting I felt this way when looking at post office jobs. The job posting reads like a novel and the entire hiring process seemed like such a turn off
Mood. I was lucky and got 18 credit hours in accounting before switching to Psychology degree so I qualified for and got my current position. But I feel like applying nowadays I'd get filtered out because my education is BS Psychology.
Likewise I had 20 accounting credits, with only 15 as the requirement along with any bachelors degree. This was for a state auditor job, started last month. I found out they had a few other applicants with accounting degrees that got passed on. I have a BA in design and I think the only reason they went with me was because I have experience with reports and working on a deadline.
I have been getting ads about applying and there are 3 main reasons why I decide not to:
1. The application process seems a bit convoluted.
2. Pay is not worth the hassle.
3. The potential of having to work with bad clients (taxpayers).
Don't let #3 stop you. Totally different relationship with the taxpayers than you have in public. If they don't get you what need or are difficult, we remind them that we have the law behind us and they usually knock it off. Pay isn't THAT bad. I started at 6 figures with a decent bonus, and they are paying my student loans. 1 is a problem. If someone hadn't reached out and held my hand, I would have given up.
If the taxpayers are really shitty, as in making threats ("I know where you live") then I call TIGTA and report it.
I respect all taxpayers and understand their situation (if they fucked up bad and owe a lot) so I work with them. Some just don't want to pay their legally obligated taxes though and get crazy with you.
Jeez...
And they actually pay? Unlike being a teacher in a title 1 school for 13 years and be rejected every single time?
With that all of my student loans would go poof after only a few years.
You apply every year in March I think. Think it tends to be paid out based on how how hard the position is to fill, so revenue agents like sub would be going for should be good.
Your second point is the one that personally concerns me the most. Stepping from civilian pay to the GS scale would be…financially catastrophic. I’m just a staff accountant working industry with 4 years of experience and don’t have a CPA; looking at the GS scale and where I’d by placed based on the scale descriptions, I’d be taking a $20K-$40K pay cut, and I’m not even at six-figures yet. I’d be apartment-broke if I took a job like that. Nothing would go towards savings, IRA couldn’t possibly be funded, and zero chance of having any money left after bills to actually have a social life with. Idk how people enter government jobs and not go homeless.
Thing is I went from 59k to 163k in 5.5 years in industry. I was at 173k before I finally quit. It would take far longer to achieve that salary in government. I understand the workload is far easier as I’ve worked for a state agency and that is a great aspect of it but I’ve found myself working okay hours in industry.
Granted there were times working with a global company caused very late hours but those were few and far between. I found the reason I overworked a lot of times was because I felt the need to overachieve which is what I’m working through fixing now but the pay is way higher.
I did quit but it’s been nice to have a cushion that allows me to take time to work on my self improvement I’m not sure I would’ve had that in government.
Sounds like a fast track. Did you need a cpa? I quit PA early on, and went to govt early. But I’ve been stuck for years earning much less than you without a cpa. Is it worth it to quit and get the cpa and try going back out? Just for reference, I’m already in the 30-40s age range.
CPA with a few years experience.
Pay is low. I don’t work in tax and don’t want to start as like a GS 5. I work in corporate accounting. If we were looking at GS 11/12 that’s different. But they mostly require a tax background which most accountants don’t have.
Also, there’s plenty of news about how remote positions are going away and it’s not clear what each government entity’s stance is post Covid
It’s difficult to leave once you join. The skills aren’t a 1:1 for industry. They’re a much bigger decision than private sector jobs.
There’s an election in six months, with utter vitriol towards the IRS from one of the two parties running for election. I do not want to make a big jump into a new job, industry etc. only to get fired.
This, I can start at like GS5 with a bachelor degree making only $40k. Even with a Masters it’s only like GS8 at about $50k. I’ll go private with same amount of education making 50% more
So based off this GS 7 pays $50k in my area. GS 9 starts at $61k. I don’t even have a degree (still in school) and I’m making $55k right now. RSM for a first year associate at my local office (only requires a BA according to job posting) pays between $56k-$67k year 1. Not to mention the annual raises that would quickly outpace GS scale plus bonuses.
I’m not saying it’s all shit but sounds like you have now 9 years of experience. If you stayed public in that time you could probably make 30% more. It’s all about the person on if it’s worth it. It’s just about what you want as a person there’s perks to all sides of employment just like downfalls
30% more money for only working 50% more hours and with 127% more stress. (% are guesstimated approximations lol)
It's a very good point that you'd definitely make more total money in PA. I'd be curious to know the per hour difference personally since I really enjoy and actually need time off from work in order for my brain to function semi correctly.
I just applied for the new graduate program. I officially graduated today with an associates in accounting and I have 6 classes to finish to get a BA in English. I planned to dual major once I am back in the school because I will only need the accounting classes. I have done tax preparer work for the last 6 years. My concern right now is that I am going to have to move, the contract is for 12 months. Then there's also no indication of where they might send you.
I am a mom with 2 kids, a husband and we own a house. So the question becomes do we sell the house and make the move. Do we rent the house out? We are going to struggle with getting a mortgage in less than 3 years, and we currently pay about 1/3 of rental prices. I can't imagine having to buy something else right now, but we also have a bunch of pets, that we need to consider. Most rentals only allow 2. My husband is getting a CDL which will go anywhere with us. It's about the same pay rate as anything I can find here. So it's a lot of stress.
I spoke to a Fed recruiter 10 years ago and they would have started me at G7 I think but I was told you basically will progress to GS9 or GS10 within 5 years without much change other than years experience.
You absolutely do not need to start at GS-5. We’ve started at GS-13 with no tax experience, but corporate (preferably large) experience is a must. Someone needs to understand debits and credits or know auditing techniques.
I started as a gs-11 with 6 years of tax auditor experience from the state. Another new hire started at gs-11 and that guy has 1 year big 4 experience, 3 years corporate accounting and has an active CPA.
Both of us should have started at gs-12. The problem is the hr clerks don't fully know how to place someone. The hr clerk I was working with didn't actually know what a revenue agent does or a state tax auditor does....it is the same job doing same type of work.
I feel like the hiring managers should also do a recommendation for gs level based on the interview and resume. Hr supervisor should make final decision if there is a difference. I feel that the hiring manager would be more knowledgeable about the value of someone's experience compared to the hr clerk.
Also now to make matters worse, we have new hire starting at gs-12 with the new hire incentive and these people have less experience compared to me...
I have two years of public audit experience and have been working in governmental accounting for the last 6 months. I just got my TJO this week for a GS 7. I know I qualify for a 12. I don’t get what happened there but I can’t accept that.
I’m a CPA with little tax experience. I was an auditor in PA and have worked in both medium and large corporations. I received offers for both GS-12 and GS-13 positions. You definitely don’t have to start at GS-5.
Some skills sets are highly transferable depending on your specialized area. I have a TJO for a specialist position in LB&I and I picked the specialty specifically for this reason.
The pay and the fact that telework positions possibly going away do seem concerning.
Your last point is a big one. When one party actively talks about completely gutting the IRS (and said party continues winning important elections) then why would anyone want to join?
It can be low, but it rises quickly. Started as a GS-9 and I'm making 61k, which is low. But I'll be making 75k next year, 90k year after that, and I estimate my high 3 years for my pension will be close to 200k, if not higher.
Take home is what kills you. 4.4% to FERS.
The USA Jobs site and the pay scales are intimidating and are completely different from the private sector. Private sector lets you negotiate for your salary more while these federal jobs are incredibly specific on what salary you are going to have based off experience/degree and you are guaranteed to be salaried. Private allows you to have a higher base salary and overtime opportunities, but downside is your PTO/benefits will not be as generous. Working locally in your government (city/county/state) doesn’t restrict itself as much and for most regions, offer wonderful benefits. A happy medium between the two. Federal employment feels like a larger hurdle if you don’t know people who work for the branch you’re trying to get into.
I’ll also say the locations of these federal jobs are restricting too. Most of them are in HCOL areas and the salaries do not compensate IMO fairly for that. I don’t think enough local study is done for these federal positions.
It might be due to moving expenses too. I’m sure with your LCOL, there is not much available/qualified talent that you’re looking for in that area. The HCOL clients would be more inclined to work or move to those LCOL regions if relocation bonuses were introduced as well. Me personally, I’m not incredibly far from DC and would love to live/work there, but everything is way too expensive for someone like me who does not have a whole lot of cash set aside to make these big changes for a career. It doesn’t seem like there is much incentive at the end of the road to even go through the USA Jobs process and hope for an interview or response.
I’ll add on too that housing would be my first issue to arise. Federal branches if they would like these positions filled, should dedicate a team to assisting a potential hires for relocation. If I knew that there was a worker or hiring manager who was assisting me in finding housing and helping me understand the nuances of the region that I’d be potentially relocating to, it would make the process not seem as intensive.
I would love to move out of my region for a better opportunity, but I juggle too much with my current position to try planning all of that for another job.
I don't think you understand how the federal pay system work. The way it works is the entire country is divided into metropolitan areas (based on counties) so a group of counties is blocked together to form a metropolitan area. Everyone in that metro area is paid the same.
So what happens is the people in those areas that are outside of a major city still make the same.
Just to show an example everyone is Los Angeles, mission viejo, riverside, Barstow, Bakersfield and Blythe all make the same. The cost of housing in these areas have huge differences.
Mission viejo has average home price of 1.2 million, Los Angeles 800k, Bakersfield 500k, Barstow and Blythe 300k.
A gs-12 salary in mission viejo is probably below average while the same salary in Barstow is above average.
So you can see the trick is to find those offices that are located at the smaller cities and still pay the same as the big cities.
You have to live within (I think) 150 miles from your assigned office. Revenue Agents and other IRS employee have been mostly work from home for over 20 years.
If your office you’re assigned to is in a hcol city with higher locality pay even if you don’t live there and decide to commute you still get the higher locality pay.
Typically your first year you are training and have to be in the office. After that you have to be “in” the office 2 times a pay period (2 weeks). However being out in the field on an audit counts toward that. So does any holiday and any vacation or sick leave you take.
So other than needing to pick up your mail you might not ever need to go in if you work it right, or maybe you go in once or twice a month.
You don’t have to start at the bottom of that jobs pay ladder. If you can prove external experience and education that justifies a higher level of pay you can come in at a grade 12 step 4 (or whatever is applicable) and then after a year if your ladder for that position goes to 13 you’d move to g13 step 1 and each year you’d automatically move up a step for the first 4 years (assuming your manager says you are meeting expectations) then you move up a step every 2 years for a few steps then every 3 years for the last few steps in grade, assuming you stay on that position and don’t move or take a temporary assignment for a couple years that usually offers higher grade pay.
Even in the “rest of US” locality pay a g13 step 1 is six figures.
Edit: I’m not trying to sell an IRS job, some people can’t stand them, but I figured I’d offer more info here for whoever might read it and be interested.
Your coworkers and managers can be shit, but you get crazy good vacation and sick leave, lots of paid holidays. A lot of positions offer alternative work schedules after your training. Such as different start and stop times. The alt plan with credit hours is the best imo. If you work over 40hrs you earn credit hours that you can spend later as leave. There are some basic limits on how much you can carry at a time and how much you can earn in a week, etc but it’s all reasonable.
The pension isn’t as good as it used to be. Only bc the employee has to pay more in now than they used to.
Used to by .8% you paid in, now it’s 4.4% and has been for around a decade.
You get an annuity over 1% of the average of your high 3 annual salary multiplied by your # of years of service. That’s the quick and dirty, it gets complicated on when you can start claiming in different situations based on years work and your age when you start to draw but it’s still pretty good. Especially if you start in your mid twenties.
If your average high 3 salary is $150k and you work 30 years starting at age 26 or younger, you can retire at 57 (minimum retirement age) and get $45k in pension until you die.
The health insurance in retirement (FEHB) is pretty baller too.
In top of the health benefits and the traditional pension you have access to a TSP (thrift savings plan) which is basically a 401k and the gov matches effectively 5%
#4 is the major contributor
There are significantly less young folks studying accounting. And those that are, they are looking to go into non-traditional backgrounds, eg consulting, analytics, information systems.
Why?
Those other jobs pay comparably with other “technical” college graduate jobs. Traditional entry level accounting is heavily outsourced, even in industry (ie the outlook of the “secure” job is very much at risk). So, students are rightly picking the job that pays more for similar job security outlook.
_____
There’s other issues you’re fighting:
- typical aversion to “auditors” (‘narc’)
- you need to really push student loan forgiveness and a real pension existing
- you really need to push IT modernization
I've applied to many government jobs including the IRS and never got anywhere. Between the 4+ month hiring process that moves at a snails pace and getting rejected simply because you didn't 100% match the job description wording despite having multiple years of experience, I simply gave up. You can find another job and start by the time it takes for gov to even review your app and have the first interview. If they want more people interested, they need to drastically reduce the waiting time.
My anecdote - I would've happily taken the job to which I was told I was getting an offer, but the offer never came (or at least, hasn't yet - it's been 8 months since I was told) and I took a private sector job because I was desperate to get out of PA. I suspect this is more often than not the case with many eligible people. People wanting to get out of PA are not going to sit around for 6+ months wondering whether an offer from the IRS will ever come.
Not US based - but - Governments are Governments
1. The Hiring process. Filling in a 15 page application, copying stuff that is on my CV onto an application form that chances are isn't going to read. Especially when ill be taking a paycut.
2. The bandings (and freeze on pay rises) means it's just not an attractive option. I can get between 5 & 10 percent a year in industry but 2% max UK civil service.
3. The reference checks are insane. I had to provide reference checks for everything I've done since my 16th birthday with references for all jobs. Half of which won't know who I am and my application will be unsuccessful if any don't reply.
4. HMRC (and I'm guessing its similar for the IRS) want a load of skills that - lets be honest - you'll never use. Why do they want high level costing experience for a personal tax auditor? Its irrelevant and puts most people off.
5. Sheer workload. When applying it mentioned I would have upwards of 75 complex cases a week to resolve. I mean what the hell? We work 37.5 hours a week.
USAJobs application process is fucking garbage. I applied for local DoT, I did all the bullshit for the app and then had to redo it on the DoT website that it pushed me to which was filled with glitches and bugs from not feeding correctly. Then a week later it gets cancelled so they can add an additional GS rank to it and tells me to reapply. I just spent 45 minutes doing it the week before you can lick my entire ass.
In addition the postings rarely take into account actual experience. They just want you to have been a GS-7 to be a 9 etc etc.
Also with the IRS positions it’s basically a yearly contract which can also ligma.
I’ve been working full time and part time for the gubmint for 12 years; but anything USAJobs is cancer
I'm a tax partner and would strongly consider working for the IRS. My issues are the pay (I fully understand a significant pay cut would be necessary), the seemingly arduous process (if I'm even on their list of folks to consider in the first place), fear of being hamstrung by red tape/bureaucracy my whole career, and antiquated technology. I believe my skill set could greatly help the IRS evaluate complex tax strategies using automated processes to identify questionable fact patterns for further inquiry. I believe taxpayers should pay every penny of their fair share. Too many bad tax preparers out there not following the rules.
We often see people come in after 25 years in PA and take $150K pay cuts because they’re burnt out and fed up. Obviously that’s a huge number and major lifestyle changes may be involved, but it depends on what’s important to you.
If I didn’t have kin in the civil service I would never have even considered the IRS. The job application process is ridiculous.
I’d probably be more likely to consider a local tax admin job.
Edit: I’m not a hater on the IRS itself. Just can’t stand the application process. I also hate my state tax department that has every single job in the state capital. There’s no reason some of that stuff shouldn’t be more spread out.
Another vote for the extremely long and convoluted hiring process.
One additional point I did want make is that the closest IRS Office would make me have a commute of over an hour each way. Currently I’m fully remote.
Honestly the biggest reason I haven't left my current role. Being fully remote is reeeaallllyyy hard to part with.
Having to go back to commuting means a bunch of increased costs and lots more time where I am sitting in traffic instead of enjoying life.
I applied for an IRS business valuation job that I am squarely qualified for right here in my hometown and was rejected with little explanation why. My mindset after that was “well good luck can’t wait to go against whoever you end up hiring in an audit.” Atrocious application and hiring process.
Not worth the heartache IMO. Politicians control the budget and i.e. your paycheck. Nothing scarier than watching a bunch of lunatics on both sides of the aisle bicker over trivial matters 98% of the population doesn’t care about while your next paycheck may not come in.
As for consideration after college? Public is kinda expected in this industry from what I’ve seen from my wife and my parents. CPA is bonus points.
The job in the IRS might be uninteresting, I don’t think it’s a factor but if you’re comparing two low paying jobs with each other I’m going to take the more exciting one for sure
GOVT pay is also low but let’s be honest it’s lower everywhere in the accounting field starting out so I wouldn’t call this a factor personally.
Yeah, money talks and students aren’t morons. Pay is low so people are getting degrees with a better ROI starting out. Personally I still think accounting is extremely flexible in the global market and the potential salary you can make long term is way higher than other industries and less competitive but eh my two cents.
I’ve met a few people, my sister for one who refuses to work for the government. But I don’t think it’s a factor. Hunger/being poor sucks so people change their ideologies pretty quickly once bills come in. Hell, I’m still active duty but my buddies and I joke, JOKE EVERYONE, that if you pay us enough we’ll do whatever is ordered. AGAIN WE JOKE PEOPLE!! We will never do that but again, you see money influences our decision making including our own dark humor
Unless you are a current fed, your supervisor is not getting contacted prior to FJO for the IRS.
They run fingerprint, criminal, tax, and credit checks and someone reviews your background investigation form for errors/omissions/red flags and that's it until your butt is in a seat.
YMMV for other agencies/positions, but this is just the facts as it relates specifically to the positions we're talking about here.
As a mid career JD, CPA the IRS refused to budge on starting with entry level vacation for a GS 13 position . Seems a stupid hill to die on when your pay is very low and the main selling point is work/life balance.
I don't want to have to completely rewrite and tailor my resume from a concise one page document to a 3-5 page document for a job that is notoriously difficult to get and pays less than what I currently make.
I got help from someone who already worked at a US gov accounting position and once they explained that I'd have to completely rewrite my resume I was out. I don't want to maintain multiple copies of a resume just to tailor it to every single possible job I apply for in a government role.
In addition the hiring process seems like it takes forever and has several pain points throughout it. Why do that when I can just interview 2-3 times with a one page resume at a private company and get a job that already pays 20-30% more and be hired within a month? Just doesn't make sense.
Pay is too low and stagnant for me compared to industry or PA. Not really within your control I am sure, but government is viewed as a “cash a check that increases minimally for life” safe bet. There are lots of us who would rather bet on ourselves in the private sector to make more money over our careers
I applied to an LB&I job last year around August since I have worked in nothing but large multinational corporation tax departments for the past 15 years and was denied sometime in the last month or so. I was even willing to cut my salary in half in favor of job stability.
Like any other job, I think it's more about who you know currently in there that can get you in front of a hiring manager versus going through the application process of USA Jobs.
The process is so long. If I am looking for a job now, I need a job now, and when the fed hr department may get around to looking at my application in 6 months, I am likely already employed somewhere else.
If I am willing to wait 6 months or longer to be considered, I have to know that at any given point, they can offer the position and then rescind it for budget cuts.
After having gone through the process, I will say, there is a lot of hoops and just general BS from HR that I would never tolerate from a private employer.
In the time it took for them to respond to my application, I had already applied, interviewed, accepted written offer, and started working at a different job.
Before I applied to the IRS there was a perception that government jobs sucked. But then I started feeling slighted at work and feeling like I was deserving of a raise and a promotion quicker than my manager was able to provide. I literally applied to the IRS and was like “well, let’s see what happens”. And I applied to GS-14 because the bottom salary range showed it was like $10k more than I was making then.
Cut to 3 months later, I get an invite for an interview with the IRS and started actually digging into federal employment. And then I actually figured out that it wasn’t $10k higher, it was **$30k higher** because the bottom range is based on the area without a higher locality pay adjustment. Plus all the other benefits of federal employment like a pension and the $30k recruitment incentive for GS-14 and everything, I was freakin stoked.
So I started with the IRS as a GS-14 this week, earning a 30% raise coming from private, and I can totally understand how people would be turned off by government work because the perception hasn’t changed yet. But it’s crazy just how good the benefits and pay are, and that’s coming from someone who thought Government would be the opposite. Of course YMMV (a tax director in industry isn’t going to come in getting a raise), but for the right person it can be very appealing.
Exit opps are good for revenue agents. I was working with a rep where he did 7 years for IRS as a revenue agent and exited to being a partner at a regional CPA firm.
So yeah, maybe that's the actual trick to "jumping the ladder" at a CPA firm and making partner lol
I think that's great. Not everyone may have the same experience, a lot of people get stuck in government positions. It's generally understood that public has better exit opportunities for most people.
It may not be the case for the IRS (I’ve never bothered looking bc of my location), but for most government contracts, you’re required to do drug testing. And a lot of people my age and younger take some form of cannabis with states legalizing recreational use. Not saying they’re wrong to do it because it IS a federal job and cannabis is still a C1 narcotic at the federal level. Just another barrier to pulling more candidates for them.
Plus with the massive back and forth on repealing the increased spending on the IRS by our government officials, there’s a higher than usual chance that you could get settled and then funding is stripped and your job is cut.
I have 2 CPA friends who are married. They made a lot of money working for Big-4 and national firms and lived frugally. They wanted to reduce their hours and applied to the IRS. They were both rejected. I sincerely doubt the IRS has more than a few employees who know more about partnership tax than one of these people. It's interesting that you wouldn't list the actual hiring process as a reason to not consider a government job. I can't imagine anyone with talent putting themselves through that process twice.
i'm interested. i just need to graduate first.
it's the perfect job for me actually, (what i'm hoping will be) adequate training, no overtime hours, possibility of WFH, don't have to worry about retirement, etc. i'm a single person and have no intention of starting a family or owning a home, so i don't mind the low pay. i'm also incredibly low maintenance and boring. the problem is.. most people aren't like me. most people have hobbies, sometimes expensive ones, some people like to travel and go on trips, some people want families, some people have cars and homes to maintain. you can't do that on a gov't salary. no one that works for the gov't should be struggling to live a decent life and yet..
also, the hiring process takes forever. who wants to wait 6 months to make 60k in NYC? i don't even need a degree to make that here.
i know hr has no control over these things. but yeah. you're wondering why.
My husband works for the IRS, he did the pathway program so he received a grade up every year for the first 5 years. Started at an incredibly low wage but paid off by year 5. He absolutely would be making another min 30k though if he was in private/public but would work more than 40 hours a week. I also have an accounting degree and ruled it out for two reasons; 1. The training isn’t remote. I am not interested in flying out a couple times a year for weeks at a time simply to learn as a group while everyone, including the teachers, hate being there. 2. I would most likely have a pay decrease.
Not worth it.
1.) Bloated agency with zero accountability.
2.) Absurdly long hiring process that supports the first point.
3.) Pay and growth opportunities are not as great as current IRS employees make them seem. Much better opportunities in industry.
1) 18 years experience in the IRS and I disagree.
2) Agreed, but we’re working on it.
3) Take your industry job and figure out what you actually make. 50-60 hours a week? IRS works 37.5 hours. And I take 6-8 weeks vacation every year. Money isn’t everything.
Based on my experience, IRS pay is competitive with private especially on a per-hour basis.
Where it lacks is IRS doesn't have jobs that pay 200k/year like private or CPA firms.
Reality is though most will never make it to partner or CFO even staying their entire career in industry or public accounting.
Yes. We have new hires with zero tax experience starting.
IRS doesn't care how old you are. You could be 85 and if you're qualified they will hire you.
What are you making with the IRS after 18 years? What is the highest level a new hire (with say 10 plus years/half of that being a Controller) could start out at? Genuinely curious, I’d love less hours/more time off but don’t want to take a monster pay cut.
I’m around $190K.
It’s not crazy for you to come into LBI as a GS14. Check your locality pay table for the pay rate. Step increases possible at hiring based on specialized experience.
And that's 190k working max 40 hours/week and being able to easily take your vacation/sick time.
For others, do you think if you're getting paid 190k/year in private or public and only working 40 hours/week year round? Very unlikely.
I attended the virtual meeting the LB&I group had from LinkedIn and asked how to apply. The IRS person told me to email them my resume, which it did and I have not heard anything from them. I have a BS and master of accounting with a law degree (licensed attorney also) and thought it would be a good fit. The hiring process is so terrible there are not words. If the IRS really cares about getting quality people, they would have a quality process - it’s like trying to attract a food aficionado with cold fries from McDonalds. Fix your hiring speed and process and you’d have no shortage of quality people.
Couple points:
1. You can have 18 years of experience but it’s still a bloated agency.
2. Glad we agree.
3.) Hypotheticals that laser focus on one specific scenario don’t work well in arguments. I don’t work anywhere near 50-60 hours a week in industry. I make more than I would at the IRS, even if we convert it to an hourly rate using the 37.5 hours.
I worked for the state government right out of college in 2017. It was great honestly stable job and good benefits. I left last year cause I felt that I shouldn’t be at the top of my field before I’m 30. There’s no incentive to further your career and you’re sitting around waiting for people to retire.
I’m actually in the hiring process for a SBSE revenue agent position. Filling out the insane background check now.
Two things stop me. Pay (tho for this role I’m starting at a GS12 step 10 so only a 10% or so pay cut) and the insanely long time it takes to do literally anything. It’s been probably 10 months since I applied and I’m still in the process. Will take a year once all is said and done.
That being said, I like the description of the role so I don’t think I’ll be bored, which has been a problem in the past for me. Guess we’ll find out!!
The pay is a major concern. When they came to recruit at my college, they said you would be at 60k with like a 1k increase every year. That is just not suitable to live on comfortably and we have continuously heard the IRS does not have the resources as other firms do. The cost/benefit is just not there.
For me, not only is the pay pretty low, but governments are so inefficient. To me, that’s an extremely frustrating work environment. Every now and then, I deal with government customers and the amount of red tape and terrible policies makes working with them unpleasant.
For me the pay was too low. I went to an in person hiring event, and walked out with an tjo. Unfortunately my hr rep said they were not able to adjust my starting salary and life is too expensive for me to have taken a 20k pay cut. Very unfortunate but I think the pay scale in general needs to be adjusted.
hmmm, ex punk rocker who has been smoking mj for 25+ years and am a Controller. Working for the govt would be ok if they didn't exclude Ralph Nader from the debate on Oct 4th 2000, and if Ronald Reagan hadn't stuck his greasy alzheimers riddled arms so deep into the social security fund to bail out the boomers portfolio investments that it put all the inevitable nails in that coffin decades ago. Maybe... yeah... The government sucks?
After a year in corporate America, I said fuck this shit and applied and got it. Here is the thing, the consensus being talked about here is correct. Government is horrendously slow, inefficient, and does a bad job marketing/communicating the benefits.
I ultimately took matters into my own hands because I really saw the value in this opportunity. I went to a job fair event being held by the IRS, and got the job on the spot. I cannot recommend this path enough for those who want to join. You basically will get your choice of where you want to work, and I was able to choose between SBSE and TEGE.
They’re even handing out 15k recruitment incentive bonuses which is absolutely insane imo for the government.
It’s the opportunity of a life time, and they won’t hire forever. Cannot recommend it enough, only problem is government is slow and inefficient, so be proactive and take matters into your own hands
Hiring process is too long & the requirements are too ridiculous. No real change making ability just a cog in the wheel which makes life really overwhelming.
I graduated 2 years ago and considered going into government. I applied for an IRS job, was sent the required testing information, and didn't continue after that. I'm not doing required testing for such a low paying job. I ended up in industry at a very large public company.
1. Colleges pretty much only push public. The one professor that didn't, said only the most mediocre accounting grads go to the IRS.
2. Yes, pay is far too low
3. Not necessarily
4. Offshoring
5. I'd be fine working for the IRS. But the application process is awful, the pay is awful, and I would worry about job security bc politicians love to cut IRS funding.
Ive been in both tax and audit in public. Industry as well. The pay is too low at gs5. That being said, hire me OP. Im wrapping up an application later today.
Can confirm it takes forever. I’ve had several applications with the IRS since I graduated for months now and have heard nothing really. I do have an interview for an accountant position with the recreation department in my city so local gov could be a thing to look into.
1. Job Application process and resume template has a different standard from the industry/public accounting
2. The hiring feedback takes much longer than industry/public accounting.
for public accounting you would know whether you get the job within typically 2 weeks, including the interview process.
The government hiring team seems to use different types of screen on resume from industry/public accounting, can you share some tips?
1. Hiring process is Byzantine and intimidating.
2. Low pay relative to industry.
3. Can become pigeonholed.
4. Battleground for partisan politics in Congress.
5. Beholden to budget cuts.
6. Experience is not as highly valued as other fields such as public accounting or industry.
7. Antiquated systems and processes.
If a young person asked me if he/she should start career with the government(s), I would say no. The pace of learning is way faster in the private sectors. Young people should learn what they need for the first ten years, and then join the government to building on their careers.
I’ll also chime in that I pass over any government jobs because I live in a weed legal state and I’m not going to be subjected to drug tests. Once federally legal, then I’ll consider.
I can't speak for IRS, but in my home country of Canada the issues with government roles:
-Hiring process is messy and takes too long. Upload resume & cover letter and done. If you get to the next step, upload criminal check and diploma/transcript and done. Then interview(s) promptly after. Shouldn't be more than that.
-Pay is average, but since it's govt and there are no bonuses, I think it needs to supplemented with more vacation time. I think it's fair to blackout tax season, and give another 2 weeks. We get 3-4 in govt to start in Canada, not sure what IRS is. Imo government should start at 4 and get to 6 pretty quick.
-Again, not sure what the rules are in USA, but making sure remote work/flexible work hours is available when possible. This is an easy make or break for many people. I'd take less pay over in-office any day.
-The work is kind of boring, but I think this can be supplemented by finding the people interested in advancing and bringing them into other situations. Especially outside of tax season. Eg. maybe throw a junior auditor on a forensic project or a special foreign corporate audit or something, and see if they like a different branch. Or start a program where time saving projects (eg. using VBA to save time on a spreadsheet, or AI to save time) where people can earn something non-monetary.
1. The answer to this question will be school-specific, but the biggest reason new accounting graduates go into public accounting or industry is for experience, CPA sign-off, and promotion/pay progression. In addition, the firms and large companies are on-campus recruiting throughout the year. People say “yes” to people they know. I never saw gov at campus events.
2. The pay, PTO, and fringe benefits are not just low, it's completely misaligned with public/private accounting opportunities.
3. Job doesn't offer equivalent training and support compared to public accounting & F500 companies, this is especially important for recent graduates and CPA candidates.
4. Lack of defined career path. Starting in public or F500 the career paths are clear and as you meet tenured colleagues, you gain an understanding of how your career can evolve. You might start in audit, move into transactions mid-career, and then become an SME or an executive. The IRS doesn't do a good job of selling how one's career can grow and transform over a 20 or 30-year horizon; it's not a compelling sales pitch to a young person IMO.
Government jobs (in my experience) run on nepotism and hierarchy. If you TRY to do something right or good and it’s not “what’s always been done”… you’re a problem.
As a federal employee not with the IRS, the way to attract folks will never be pay. Government pays less. What you can offer is better benefits (e.g. health insurance, retirement, flexible schedules, PTO), work life balance, and serving the mission (e.g. people want public servant). I don’t know if your trouble is offering folks jobs at the wrong grade (many comments in this post about that). I think IRS is on GS scale but as someone in an agency that is not GS scale, we can attract more candidates since the pay is better. I know you can’t change that. It government hiring needs an overhaul.
I think you can do outreach in the community/colleges and highlight the mission of IRS and what it’s like to be a public servant. That is something that appeals to many. Especially if trying to overcome the image of stereotypes of government employees. Also flexible schedules are a perk 5/4/9s or leave as a selling point. Finally the ability to work from home is huge but there are politicians who have an interest to eliminate that due to bullshit reasons.
For myself it's not what I enjoy doing. I love doing all the day to day aspects of accounting. Accounts Payable, Accounts Receivable, Payroll, General Ledger/Journal entries. Banking and reconciliation. I also manage all of HR. It's the same work but no day is ever the same.
I went to a hiring event and got an offer for gs9 with just over a year and a half in public tax, no cpa. It was still about a 12k paycut from what I was making previously in public and they declined my step increase request. Prob would recommend it more if they would be willing to throw a bit more money at us. Plus I think the office I got assigned to doesn't offer parking for employees so I'll prob have to pay on the days I go in.
Anyone that actually wants to accomplish anything has no interest in spending 40 hours a week doing 10 hours of work (when really busy) for a maximum of middle class pay after 15 years.
I would love to work for the IRS. I'm sick of corporate accounting. I applied over 3 weeks ago, and from what I'm hearing, it could be several more weeks before I hear back. Besides that, it took a long time to figure out the pay scale, application process, etc.
Personally I'm nervous about the election. I don't want to get laid off right after starting. Also heard the last time Trump was President the IRS started only investigating poor people and barely any wealthy people. Would be rough to do that for 4 years.
People associate gov employees with incompetence. Ever spent any amount of time at the post office or the dmv? Also the pay is low, no stock options. It’s the place people with no ambition go to slack off and bask in job security, good benefits.
Normally I am a lurker, but this post interested me enough to post.
I can say that I am interested in Government jobs. I recently hit 2 years within my state's government as a Grant Auditor. Prior to this I worked as a Revenue Agent for less than 1 year. I quit that position for a few reasons.
1. The pay was too low, my posting was in a city that had the RoUS classification, but the cost of living in/near that city was notably higher than a different city in the state that started out \~$1.70 per hour higher than RoUS. I started during the 2nd wave of hiring after COVID hit, so a small grace was that I worked remotely most of the time, however there was a major push to get back to being fully in office. Part of this was also due to having to start as a GS 5, as I had graduated with my BA at the end of 2019 and I was unable to get experience within the field prior to COVID.
2. The work environment was very slow to adapt/change, even by governmental standards. The PoD that I was assigned to was just starting to make the change to electronic working papers, but we were still mostly using hard copies of work sheets/support which felt like wasted time. Some programs/systems that we used were fairly modern, but there were a couple that felt like they predated windows 95. More specifically one of the systems that we used to look up case information had an interface similar to DOS/command prompt.
3. Dealing with John/Jane Taxpayer. The area that I was in dealt mostly with schedule C returns for individuals with <$1M, where most people would file themselves but have very little knowledge of what was and was not allowable. It felt like baby sitting in a way to try and get people to respond either by phone or mail. When you could get a hold of them, it was always a mixed bag, not always bad but seldomly pleasant. It was also difficult to simplify tax regulations to the point the average person can understand it.
4. The budget cuts affecting the IRS for at least the decade prior to my employment. This resulted in my PoD being limited in supplies, support, and equipment that could be provided to new RAs.
Compare this to my current job.
1. The pay at the state level is better, at least at first. I started at the state with an entry level approximately $4 higher per hour than I did as an RA. I will concede that the pay scale for an RA does go higher than my current position, but would take 4 or 5 years to match it, and then 5+ to exceed it. As a plus side, my current job aims to keep remote work/hybrid work for personnel that are not absolutely necessary to have in office. Even working hybrid, going into the office twice a week, I was able to find an area where the cost of living was significantly lower while still having a decent commute to work. One other item that my current job does better is benefits, they pay a greater percentage of insurance premiums than the IRS did, so I ended up with much better insurance for the same cost to me.
2. The work environment is pretty stereotypical for government about adapting/changing work processes, but they did start out with electronic workpapers at least. Most systems/software feel comparable to office settings in the private sector.
3. Dealing with professionals, generally. My area audits grants dealing with county agencies or non-profits throughout the state. Most of these organizations have a dedicated accountant/CFO/controller/etc. Dealing with someone who has similar knowledge is so much easier.
4. The department that I work for has a fairly good amount of federal and state funding, as such supplies, support, and equipment feel adequate.
See reply for answer to your question specifically.
Do you offer remote? Is it really remote or are you gonna ask them to come to the office to log into zoom calls?
😑
THATS why.
And no offense but government salaries are ..... Lower than the private sector. Also those USAJOBS resume processes need significant reform.
When I was looking for a job, I intentionally skipped all the federal jobs, except for the ones that were like my dream job.
I did that because it would take me like 30 minutes to fill out a USA job application. It was tedious, unnecessary, and indeed can have me apply to a job with a few clicks, literally within 15 seconds. They have a one click apply option.
So as a job seeker, who has accounting and finance experience. I'm telling you, it's the USA jobs process, and The fact that you guys are obsessed with making people commute to the office. Nobody likes traffic in DC, and people hate driving through Maryland.
If you want to attract more talent, specifically accounting talent. You're going to have to compete with the private market for them.
Make the application process easier. I should be able to apply to a federal job with a few clicks. May be incorporate AI into the process to make this happen, I don't know.
But I promise you, as a person who has accounting experience, applying on indeed, using one click apply process, has always gotten me remote job offers that are over 6 figures.
I work for my state's auditor's office and we have had very few qualified applicants in a major metro area. The IPA firms in the area are also having difficulty maintaining sufficient staffing levels too from what I gather. I've had some of my best staff leave in the last couple years and the reason given each time was they found a similar position elsewhere that offered more money. Some of those were for local governments (schools, counties, cities) and some were to IPA firms.
I personally am content to be a government auditor/accountant. Pay may be a bit lower than I could get elsewhere, but the perks are pretty great. I'm like 95% work from home, 11 paid holidays, lots of accrued time off with options to cash out a portion each year (I treat this like a Christmas bonus each year), nice health insurance, and a pension.
Well if you have any experience with accouting, you might know govt sector actually needs informed decisions maker in their field and based on that they are upgrading their systems as well for the analysing of the data.
And it's been quite a thoughtful step by the govt and even the accountants are recognising this fact and are moving to govt sector
I've applied to tons of government jobs over the years, especially before I studied accounting since it was a career switch for me. My experience has been to wait 6 months for them to tell me they dont even want to talk to me when I meet or exceed the requirements. I've been tempted to throw in to an irs position or two but it always seems like a ton of work to not get a quick turnaround. I'm honestly okay with the wages not being super up top. Benefits matter. They just always seem to be hiring 100+ miles from me, looking for people way above my qualifications, or I don't get traction. So why spend the energy?
Government (State) worker here. Just here to say that I love my job. I worked in public before, and although the State initially offered me much lower pay, they matched (plus a little more) once I sent something to support how much I was making. I’ve been here 3 years and I’ve gotten $16/hour in raises. I might just be lucky but we have great leadership that supports growth and promotions if you work hard, and the work life balance is wonderful.
BACK AS A NEW COLLEGE GRAD, my answer would be that I didn’t know IRS was an option.
They don’t push government jobs in college, only cpa firms and companies. I didn’t even know IRS jobs was an option until I my coworker mentioned it years later and insisted I apply. IRS should start attending career fairs at universities
After graduating, I applied to multiple jobs looking for any offer, at any pay. Had I heard iRS was an option, I would have applied to IRS, but end up taking something else because (1) IRS takes way too long to hire , assuming the job isn’t canceled and (2) most of the listing require prior work experience which I didn’t have as a new grad.
I've tried applying to the IRS 3 times and Everytime the posting got cancelled. I gave up and started my own firm.
Damn that’s like a libertarian wet dream a government so inefficient man just said fuck I’ll start my own business
Ron Swanson crying tears of joy.
“I’ll start my own IRS.”
With black jack and hookers
in fact, you can forget about the IRS!! ^^^B-E-N-D-E-R ^^^^beeeeeeeender
How’s business?
Going good. Doubled from last year.
The hiring process is atrocious and takes too long.
I've gone through two jobs before I heard back about an IRS application for an interview - forgot I had even applied lmao.
I applied to a fed job once. It took them 18 months to tell me I forgot to include my college transcript. I reach out to a recruiter for industry and I usually have interviews scheduled the same week. Am I missing out on not having a cushy pension? Yeah, definitely. But does that provide me enough drive to deal with the atrocious recruiting process? Unfortunately, no. Maybe I’ll regret this when I’m 65. Only time will tell.
It gives an idea of how frustrating it will be to work there.
I wonder if the federal retirement plan (FERS / TSP / SS) is more or less lucrative than a state pension plan?
the awesome part is that with a Fed job you get both: pension + TSP (Fed 401k) in industry or PA it’s one or the other and not as generous as Uncle Sam. The leave time is addicting and 40 hrs or less the norm. Almost makes up for the sucky office / leadership / coworkers. But hey, you can’t have it all.
I'm annoyed that I pay 4.4% for my FERS pension when I have coworkers just barely older than me who only pay 0.8%...
Depending on the state, but I'd say better just from the fact you're putting in more because of the higher pay.
Don't worry, FERS isn't so cushy anymore and wasn't anything compared to CSRS before that. You aren't missing anything.
I applied to a state job and got an email 2 years later asking if I was still interested
lol! Nice!
I got hired in February. It took just over a year from applying to start. People here ask me if I have any advice to get new hires, and the first thing I say is that they need to speed up the hiring process. I've talked to several friends who are interested but not willing to wait. If you're looking to switch jobs, you're looking to switch right now.
Can confirm. I got an interview 8 months after I applied. Haven't heard back in any way about whether I've been rejected or moving on in 2 months. I have a job right now that pays well and is comfortable, so it's not an issue. But the hiring process is fucking insane
Not an accountant (my fiancee is so I browse), but I got an email this week from the Border Patrol asking if I wanted to apply. I had sent in an interest packet in 2014.
I applied for an auditor job with a different agency. My calls and emails went unanswered for 6 months. It turned out that the OPM guy handling my application had retired, and no one picked up his work. 0/10, 1 star, never again.
Idk, sounds like if you got that job, you’ve got 6 months of no oversight before errors pop up. Pretty good cushion
Lol, had a similar experience with our census reports. We were getting notices that we were delinquent in some filings, but we were sending things in. It was getting serious and it was literally impossible to get anyone to help. So we actually had a lobbyist that worked for us go visit, he checked it out and apparently the guy retired like 4-6 months prior. There was a literal mountain of mail on his desk that no one, even his manager seemed to notice.
It’s literally this. Everyone knows the hiring process for gov is wayyyy to long geez
IRS here. The hiring process took about 10 months for me.
Took me 6 months to get hired with IRS but j was working my previous job the entire time. Last day was Friday and the I started the following Monday with IRS. I really like working for the IRS and recommend it.
Yup this is exactly it
Most definitely this. Fix the hiring process and I believe both sides would be happier. It's totally normal to hear people applying for a government job and then finally 16 months later they receive an offer. Would anyone accept that kind of timeline for anything honestly? Maybe I'm just the most impatient person in the world, idk.
It's this. I tried for Chief Counsel 15 years ago. It was abhorrently long and unnecessary questions. For some purpose because no one was reading that stuff.
I applied to a government job once and they offered me the job ~4 months later.
I looked into government jobs once, and at least for my state, I kind of couldn’t figure out how to apply? They wanted me to print out an application and mail it in, and it asked for information that I didn’t have and/or didn’t make sense for a lower level position. It seemed designed to filter people out.
It should be better now, through USAjobs. Still a long process tho :(
USA Jobs is currently down. Lol
Just learned this the hard way after becoming optimistic to check it out again. RIP USA Jobs
Planned maintenance today.
It's not dead. Just temporarily down for maintenance.
I applied for an IRS job and they didn't get back to me for almost 6 months. Then I ghosted the interviews and they still gave me an offer.
So you’re telling me you did not even do the interviews and they still gave you an offer?
Yes, skipped the phone calls and ghosted the interviews. It was tentative though. This was back in 2021
For me, it is the irs hiring system (aka, hr). I applied late last year to IRS for RA position, filled out application properly, and it took 3 months just to be interviewed. The interview was 2 months ago and I still have not even been given a TJO yet. For reference, if I did the same process in industry for example, I would literally be starting my first day of work within 5-6 weeks of sending out my application. Those kinda things matter. I am sticking it out because I want the role. But, a lot of people aren't going to have the patience for IRS HR. The direct hiring events help cut this time down by a month or so. But even that is negated when the hiring event is not near the area you want to work (which is my personal situation).
For me i feel i have imposter syndrom and when looking at the requirements i see myself as not meeting thlse inspite of me working for a state agency accounting departmsnt
Username checks out
Before I got into accounting I felt this way when looking at post office jobs. The job posting reads like a novel and the entire hiring process seemed like such a turn off
Mood. I was lucky and got 18 credit hours in accounting before switching to Psychology degree so I qualified for and got my current position. But I feel like applying nowadays I'd get filtered out because my education is BS Psychology.
Likewise I had 20 accounting credits, with only 15 as the requirement along with any bachelors degree. This was for a state auditor job, started last month. I found out they had a few other applicants with accounting degrees that got passed on. I have a BA in design and I think the only reason they went with me was because I have experience with reports and working on a deadline.
I have been getting ads about applying and there are 3 main reasons why I decide not to: 1. The application process seems a bit convoluted. 2. Pay is not worth the hassle. 3. The potential of having to work with bad clients (taxpayers).
Don't let #3 stop you. Totally different relationship with the taxpayers than you have in public. If they don't get you what need or are difficult, we remind them that we have the law behind us and they usually knock it off. Pay isn't THAT bad. I started at 6 figures with a decent bonus, and they are paying my student loans. 1 is a problem. If someone hadn't reached out and held my hand, I would have given up.
If the taxpayers are really shitty, as in making threats ("I know where you live") then I call TIGTA and report it. I respect all taxpayers and understand their situation (if they fucked up bad and owe a lot) so I work with them. Some just don't want to pay their legally obligated taxes though and get crazy with you.
How much of student loans will they pay? And is there an income limit for that benefit?
Up to 10k a year for 6 years. Also qualify for loan forgiveness if that doesn't take care of it
Jeez... And they actually pay? Unlike being a teacher in a title 1 school for 13 years and be rejected every single time? With that all of my student loans would go poof after only a few years.
You apply every year in March I think. Think it tends to be paid out based on how how hard the position is to fill, so revenue agents like sub would be going for should be good.
When was the last time you applied? I was rejected before and then approved the last time I applied
No income limit for that benefit
Your second point is the one that personally concerns me the most. Stepping from civilian pay to the GS scale would be…financially catastrophic. I’m just a staff accountant working industry with 4 years of experience and don’t have a CPA; looking at the GS scale and where I’d by placed based on the scale descriptions, I’d be taking a $20K-$40K pay cut, and I’m not even at six-figures yet. I’d be apartment-broke if I took a job like that. Nothing would go towards savings, IRA couldn’t possibly be funded, and zero chance of having any money left after bills to actually have a social life with. Idk how people enter government jobs and not go homeless.
Thing is I went from 59k to 163k in 5.5 years in industry. I was at 173k before I finally quit. It would take far longer to achieve that salary in government. I understand the workload is far easier as I’ve worked for a state agency and that is a great aspect of it but I’ve found myself working okay hours in industry. Granted there were times working with a global company caused very late hours but those were few and far between. I found the reason I overworked a lot of times was because I felt the need to overachieve which is what I’m working through fixing now but the pay is way higher. I did quit but it’s been nice to have a cushion that allows me to take time to work on my self improvement I’m not sure I would’ve had that in government.
Sounds like a fast track. Did you need a cpa? I quit PA early on, and went to govt early. But I’ve been stuck for years earning much less than you without a cpa. Is it worth it to quit and get the cpa and try going back out? Just for reference, I’m already in the 30-40s age range.
CPA with a few years experience. Pay is low. I don’t work in tax and don’t want to start as like a GS 5. I work in corporate accounting. If we were looking at GS 11/12 that’s different. But they mostly require a tax background which most accountants don’t have. Also, there’s plenty of news about how remote positions are going away and it’s not clear what each government entity’s stance is post Covid It’s difficult to leave once you join. The skills aren’t a 1:1 for industry. They’re a much bigger decision than private sector jobs. There’s an election in six months, with utter vitriol towards the IRS from one of the two parties running for election. I do not want to make a big jump into a new job, industry etc. only to get fired.
This, I can start at like GS5 with a bachelor degree making only $40k. Even with a Masters it’s only like GS8 at about $50k. I’ll go private with same amount of education making 50% more
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So based off this GS 7 pays $50k in my area. GS 9 starts at $61k. I don’t even have a degree (still in school) and I’m making $55k right now. RSM for a first year associate at my local office (only requires a BA according to job posting) pays between $56k-$67k year 1. Not to mention the annual raises that would quickly outpace GS scale plus bonuses.
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I’m not saying it’s all shit but sounds like you have now 9 years of experience. If you stayed public in that time you could probably make 30% more. It’s all about the person on if it’s worth it. It’s just about what you want as a person there’s perks to all sides of employment just like downfalls
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30% more money for only working 50% more hours and with 127% more stress. (% are guesstimated approximations lol) It's a very good point that you'd definitely make more total money in PA. I'd be curious to know the per hour difference personally since I really enjoy and actually need time off from work in order for my brain to function semi correctly.
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I just applied for the new graduate program. I officially graduated today with an associates in accounting and I have 6 classes to finish to get a BA in English. I planned to dual major once I am back in the school because I will only need the accounting classes. I have done tax preparer work for the last 6 years. My concern right now is that I am going to have to move, the contract is for 12 months. Then there's also no indication of where they might send you. I am a mom with 2 kids, a husband and we own a house. So the question becomes do we sell the house and make the move. Do we rent the house out? We are going to struggle with getting a mortgage in less than 3 years, and we currently pay about 1/3 of rental prices. I can't imagine having to buy something else right now, but we also have a bunch of pets, that we need to consider. Most rentals only allow 2. My husband is getting a CDL which will go anywhere with us. It's about the same pay rate as anything I can find here. So it's a lot of stress.
I spoke to a Fed recruiter 10 years ago and they would have started me at G7 I think but I was told you basically will progress to GS9 or GS10 within 5 years without much change other than years experience.
You absolutely do not need to start at GS-5. We’ve started at GS-13 with no tax experience, but corporate (preferably large) experience is a must. Someone needs to understand debits and credits or know auditing techniques.
I started as a gs-11 with 6 years of tax auditor experience from the state. Another new hire started at gs-11 and that guy has 1 year big 4 experience, 3 years corporate accounting and has an active CPA. Both of us should have started at gs-12. The problem is the hr clerks don't fully know how to place someone. The hr clerk I was working with didn't actually know what a revenue agent does or a state tax auditor does....it is the same job doing same type of work. I feel like the hiring managers should also do a recommendation for gs level based on the interview and resume. Hr supervisor should make final decision if there is a difference. I feel that the hiring manager would be more knowledgeable about the value of someone's experience compared to the hr clerk. Also now to make matters worse, we have new hire starting at gs-12 with the new hire incentive and these people have less experience compared to me...
They are desperate. 10 years ago… only super experienced candidates would be considered for GS-13. Now the bar is super low…
I have two years of public audit experience and have been working in governmental accounting for the last 6 months. I just got my TJO this week for a GS 7. I know I qualify for a 12. I don’t get what happened there but I can’t accept that.
You have no understanding of IRS jobs. CPA with some experience can easily get you a GS11 Revenue Agent. Why are you even looking at GS5 jobs?
Do you mind if I ask a few IRS questions via DM?
Sure
This 100%. Where I worked OP would start as a 9.
For real... people don't even look at the experience requirements with all those postings.
I’m a CPA with little tax experience. I was an auditor in PA and have worked in both medium and large corporations. I received offers for both GS-12 and GS-13 positions. You definitely don’t have to start at GS-5. Some skills sets are highly transferable depending on your specialized area. I have a TJO for a specialist position in LB&I and I picked the specialty specifically for this reason. The pay and the fact that telework positions possibly going away do seem concerning.
Your last point is a big one. When one party actively talks about completely gutting the IRS (and said party continues winning important elections) then why would anyone want to join?
It can be low, but it rises quickly. Started as a GS-9 and I'm making 61k, which is low. But I'll be making 75k next year, 90k year after that, and I estimate my high 3 years for my pension will be close to 200k, if not higher. Take home is what kills you. 4.4% to FERS.
The USA Jobs site and the pay scales are intimidating and are completely different from the private sector. Private sector lets you negotiate for your salary more while these federal jobs are incredibly specific on what salary you are going to have based off experience/degree and you are guaranteed to be salaried. Private allows you to have a higher base salary and overtime opportunities, but downside is your PTO/benefits will not be as generous. Working locally in your government (city/county/state) doesn’t restrict itself as much and for most regions, offer wonderful benefits. A happy medium between the two. Federal employment feels like a larger hurdle if you don’t know people who work for the branch you’re trying to get into.
I’ll also say the locations of these federal jobs are restricting too. Most of them are in HCOL areas and the salaries do not compensate IMO fairly for that. I don’t think enough local study is done for these federal positions.
Actually, we are having hard time with hiring at LCOL as well. Seems like most of the talent is in HCOL, since there where the large companies are…
It might be due to moving expenses too. I’m sure with your LCOL, there is not much available/qualified talent that you’re looking for in that area. The HCOL clients would be more inclined to work or move to those LCOL regions if relocation bonuses were introduced as well. Me personally, I’m not incredibly far from DC and would love to live/work there, but everything is way too expensive for someone like me who does not have a whole lot of cash set aside to make these big changes for a career. It doesn’t seem like there is much incentive at the end of the road to even go through the USA Jobs process and hope for an interview or response.
I’ll add on too that housing would be my first issue to arise. Federal branches if they would like these positions filled, should dedicate a team to assisting a potential hires for relocation. If I knew that there was a worker or hiring manager who was assisting me in finding housing and helping me understand the nuances of the region that I’d be potentially relocating to, it would make the process not seem as intensive. I would love to move out of my region for a better opportunity, but I juggle too much with my current position to try planning all of that for another job.
I don't think you understand how the federal pay system work. The way it works is the entire country is divided into metropolitan areas (based on counties) so a group of counties is blocked together to form a metropolitan area. Everyone in that metro area is paid the same. So what happens is the people in those areas that are outside of a major city still make the same. Just to show an example everyone is Los Angeles, mission viejo, riverside, Barstow, Bakersfield and Blythe all make the same. The cost of housing in these areas have huge differences. Mission viejo has average home price of 1.2 million, Los Angeles 800k, Bakersfield 500k, Barstow and Blythe 300k. A gs-12 salary in mission viejo is probably below average while the same salary in Barstow is above average. So you can see the trick is to find those offices that are located at the smaller cities and still pay the same as the big cities.
You have to live within (I think) 150 miles from your assigned office. Revenue Agents and other IRS employee have been mostly work from home for over 20 years. If your office you’re assigned to is in a hcol city with higher locality pay even if you don’t live there and decide to commute you still get the higher locality pay. Typically your first year you are training and have to be in the office. After that you have to be “in” the office 2 times a pay period (2 weeks). However being out in the field on an audit counts toward that. So does any holiday and any vacation or sick leave you take. So other than needing to pick up your mail you might not ever need to go in if you work it right, or maybe you go in once or twice a month. You don’t have to start at the bottom of that jobs pay ladder. If you can prove external experience and education that justifies a higher level of pay you can come in at a grade 12 step 4 (or whatever is applicable) and then after a year if your ladder for that position goes to 13 you’d move to g13 step 1 and each year you’d automatically move up a step for the first 4 years (assuming your manager says you are meeting expectations) then you move up a step every 2 years for a few steps then every 3 years for the last few steps in grade, assuming you stay on that position and don’t move or take a temporary assignment for a couple years that usually offers higher grade pay. Even in the “rest of US” locality pay a g13 step 1 is six figures. Edit: I’m not trying to sell an IRS job, some people can’t stand them, but I figured I’d offer more info here for whoever might read it and be interested. Your coworkers and managers can be shit, but you get crazy good vacation and sick leave, lots of paid holidays. A lot of positions offer alternative work schedules after your training. Such as different start and stop times. The alt plan with credit hours is the best imo. If you work over 40hrs you earn credit hours that you can spend later as leave. There are some basic limits on how much you can carry at a time and how much you can earn in a week, etc but it’s all reasonable. The pension isn’t as good as it used to be. Only bc the employee has to pay more in now than they used to. Used to by .8% you paid in, now it’s 4.4% and has been for around a decade. You get an annuity over 1% of the average of your high 3 annual salary multiplied by your # of years of service. That’s the quick and dirty, it gets complicated on when you can start claiming in different situations based on years work and your age when you start to draw but it’s still pretty good. Especially if you start in your mid twenties. If your average high 3 salary is $150k and you work 30 years starting at age 26 or younger, you can retire at 57 (minimum retirement age) and get $45k in pension until you die. The health insurance in retirement (FEHB) is pretty baller too. In top of the health benefits and the traditional pension you have access to a TSP (thrift savings plan) which is basically a 401k and the gov matches effectively 5%
Non-Federal government worker here, very happy where I am.
#4 is the major contributor There are significantly less young folks studying accounting. And those that are, they are looking to go into non-traditional backgrounds, eg consulting, analytics, information systems. Why? Those other jobs pay comparably with other “technical” college graduate jobs. Traditional entry level accounting is heavily outsourced, even in industry (ie the outlook of the “secure” job is very much at risk). So, students are rightly picking the job that pays more for similar job security outlook. _____ There’s other issues you’re fighting: - typical aversion to “auditors” (‘narc’) - you need to really push student loan forgiveness and a real pension existing - you really need to push IT modernization
I've applied to many government jobs including the IRS and never got anywhere. Between the 4+ month hiring process that moves at a snails pace and getting rejected simply because you didn't 100% match the job description wording despite having multiple years of experience, I simply gave up. You can find another job and start by the time it takes for gov to even review your app and have the first interview. If they want more people interested, they need to drastically reduce the waiting time.
My anecdote - I would've happily taken the job to which I was told I was getting an offer, but the offer never came (or at least, hasn't yet - it's been 8 months since I was told) and I took a private sector job because I was desperate to get out of PA. I suspect this is more often than not the case with many eligible people. People wanting to get out of PA are not going to sit around for 6+ months wondering whether an offer from the IRS will ever come.
Not US based - but - Governments are Governments 1. The Hiring process. Filling in a 15 page application, copying stuff that is on my CV onto an application form that chances are isn't going to read. Especially when ill be taking a paycut. 2. The bandings (and freeze on pay rises) means it's just not an attractive option. I can get between 5 & 10 percent a year in industry but 2% max UK civil service. 3. The reference checks are insane. I had to provide reference checks for everything I've done since my 16th birthday with references for all jobs. Half of which won't know who I am and my application will be unsuccessful if any don't reply. 4. HMRC (and I'm guessing its similar for the IRS) want a load of skills that - lets be honest - you'll never use. Why do they want high level costing experience for a personal tax auditor? Its irrelevant and puts most people off. 5. Sheer workload. When applying it mentioned I would have upwards of 75 complex cases a week to resolve. I mean what the hell? We work 37.5 hours a week.
Everyone smokes pot now and doesn’t want to quit to pass a drug test.
On USA jobs.com, the postings I've seen for accounting jobs specifically say no drug test required on them
I was told I’d be drug tested during the hiring process multiple times and it never happened.
Lol not everyone smokes pot. But maybe enough of a % to matter.
I think just use a drug test as pointless bureaucracy that no one wants to deal with when it comes to working for the government.
Because they take forever and cancel the listing half the time
USAJobs application process is fucking garbage. I applied for local DoT, I did all the bullshit for the app and then had to redo it on the DoT website that it pushed me to which was filled with glitches and bugs from not feeding correctly. Then a week later it gets cancelled so they can add an additional GS rank to it and tells me to reapply. I just spent 45 minutes doing it the week before you can lick my entire ass. In addition the postings rarely take into account actual experience. They just want you to have been a GS-7 to be a 9 etc etc. Also with the IRS positions it’s basically a yearly contract which can also ligma. I’ve been working full time and part time for the gubmint for 12 years; but anything USAJobs is cancer
I'm a tax partner and would strongly consider working for the IRS. My issues are the pay (I fully understand a significant pay cut would be necessary), the seemingly arduous process (if I'm even on their list of folks to consider in the first place), fear of being hamstrung by red tape/bureaucracy my whole career, and antiquated technology. I believe my skill set could greatly help the IRS evaluate complex tax strategies using automated processes to identify questionable fact patterns for further inquiry. I believe taxpayers should pay every penny of their fair share. Too many bad tax preparers out there not following the rules.
We often see people come in after 25 years in PA and take $150K pay cuts because they’re burnt out and fed up. Obviously that’s a huge number and major lifestyle changes may be involved, but it depends on what’s important to you.
If I didn’t have kin in the civil service I would never have even considered the IRS. The job application process is ridiculous. I’d probably be more likely to consider a local tax admin job. Edit: I’m not a hater on the IRS itself. Just can’t stand the application process. I also hate my state tax department that has every single job in the state capital. There’s no reason some of that stuff shouldn’t be more spread out.
Another vote for the extremely long and convoluted hiring process. One additional point I did want make is that the closest IRS Office would make me have a commute of over an hour each way. Currently I’m fully remote.
Honestly the biggest reason I haven't left my current role. Being fully remote is reeeaallllyyy hard to part with. Having to go back to commuting means a bunch of increased costs and lots more time where I am sitting in traffic instead of enjoying life.
At my school, the accounting faculty pushed public HARD. Govt jobs aren't flashy but are stable, I don't see an issue.
I applied for a job in December and didn't hear back until April. It was sad because it was for an agency I was really passionate about.
I applied for an IRS business valuation job that I am squarely qualified for right here in my hometown and was rejected with little explanation why. My mindset after that was “well good luck can’t wait to go against whoever you end up hiring in an audit.” Atrocious application and hiring process.
Not worth the heartache IMO. Politicians control the budget and i.e. your paycheck. Nothing scarier than watching a bunch of lunatics on both sides of the aisle bicker over trivial matters 98% of the population doesn’t care about while your next paycheck may not come in. As for consideration after college? Public is kinda expected in this industry from what I’ve seen from my wife and my parents. CPA is bonus points. The job in the IRS might be uninteresting, I don’t think it’s a factor but if you’re comparing two low paying jobs with each other I’m going to take the more exciting one for sure GOVT pay is also low but let’s be honest it’s lower everywhere in the accounting field starting out so I wouldn’t call this a factor personally. Yeah, money talks and students aren’t morons. Pay is low so people are getting degrees with a better ROI starting out. Personally I still think accounting is extremely flexible in the global market and the potential salary you can make long term is way higher than other industries and less competitive but eh my two cents. I’ve met a few people, my sister for one who refuses to work for the government. But I don’t think it’s a factor. Hunger/being poor sucks so people change their ideologies pretty quickly once bills come in. Hell, I’m still active duty but my buddies and I joke, JOKE EVERYONE, that if you pay us enough we’ll do whatever is ordered. AGAIN WE JOKE PEOPLE!! We will never do that but again, you see money influences our decision making including our own dark humor
As an aside, for those that don't know, many banks offer interest-free loans to furloughed federal employees. Navy Federal is one of them.
Low pay , slow hiring process, annoying reference process you force us to out ourselves to current supervisor before giving official offer
Unless you are a current fed, your supervisor is not getting contacted prior to FJO for the IRS. They run fingerprint, criminal, tax, and credit checks and someone reviews your background investigation form for errors/omissions/red flags and that's it until your butt is in a seat. YMMV for other agencies/positions, but this is just the facts as it relates specifically to the positions we're talking about here.
As a mid career JD, CPA the IRS refused to budge on starting with entry level vacation for a GS 13 position . Seems a stupid hill to die on when your pay is very low and the main selling point is work/life balance.
I don't want to have to completely rewrite and tailor my resume from a concise one page document to a 3-5 page document for a job that is notoriously difficult to get and pays less than what I currently make. I got help from someone who already worked at a US gov accounting position and once they explained that I'd have to completely rewrite my resume I was out. I don't want to maintain multiple copies of a resume just to tailor it to every single possible job I apply for in a government role. In addition the hiring process seems like it takes forever and has several pain points throughout it. Why do that when I can just interview 2-3 times with a one page resume at a private company and get a job that already pays 20-30% more and be hired within a month? Just doesn't make sense.
I had a quick and dirty 1-page resume. Rewriting was never once brought up; just *may* improve chances.
Pay is too low and stagnant for me compared to industry or PA. Not really within your control I am sure, but government is viewed as a “cash a check that increases minimally for life” safe bet. There are lots of us who would rather bet on ourselves in the private sector to make more money over our careers
I applied to an LB&I job last year around August since I have worked in nothing but large multinational corporation tax departments for the past 15 years and was denied sometime in the last month or so. I was even willing to cut my salary in half in favor of job stability. Like any other job, I think it's more about who you know currently in there that can get you in front of a hiring manager versus going through the application process of USA Jobs.
The process is so long. If I am looking for a job now, I need a job now, and when the fed hr department may get around to looking at my application in 6 months, I am likely already employed somewhere else. If I am willing to wait 6 months or longer to be considered, I have to know that at any given point, they can offer the position and then rescind it for budget cuts. After having gone through the process, I will say, there is a lot of hoops and just general BS from HR that I would never tolerate from a private employer.
1, 2, 4, and the application process is ridiculous.
In the time it took for them to respond to my application, I had already applied, interviewed, accepted written offer, and started working at a different job.
Before I applied to the IRS there was a perception that government jobs sucked. But then I started feeling slighted at work and feeling like I was deserving of a raise and a promotion quicker than my manager was able to provide. I literally applied to the IRS and was like “well, let’s see what happens”. And I applied to GS-14 because the bottom salary range showed it was like $10k more than I was making then. Cut to 3 months later, I get an invite for an interview with the IRS and started actually digging into federal employment. And then I actually figured out that it wasn’t $10k higher, it was **$30k higher** because the bottom range is based on the area without a higher locality pay adjustment. Plus all the other benefits of federal employment like a pension and the $30k recruitment incentive for GS-14 and everything, I was freakin stoked. So I started with the IRS as a GS-14 this week, earning a 30% raise coming from private, and I can totally understand how people would be turned off by government work because the perception hasn’t changed yet. But it’s crazy just how good the benefits and pay are, and that’s coming from someone who thought Government would be the opposite. Of course YMMV (a tax director in industry isn’t going to come in getting a raise), but for the right person it can be very appealing.
Exit opps.
Exit opps are good for revenue agents. I was working with a rep where he did 7 years for IRS as a revenue agent and exited to being a partner at a regional CPA firm. So yeah, maybe that's the actual trick to "jumping the ladder" at a CPA firm and making partner lol
I think that's great. Not everyone may have the same experience, a lot of people get stuck in government positions. It's generally understood that public has better exit opportunities for most people.
CI, dude. Get to carry a gun, lol.
It may not be the case for the IRS (I’ve never bothered looking bc of my location), but for most government contracts, you’re required to do drug testing. And a lot of people my age and younger take some form of cannabis with states legalizing recreational use. Not saying they’re wrong to do it because it IS a federal job and cannabis is still a C1 narcotic at the federal level. Just another barrier to pulling more candidates for them. Plus with the massive back and forth on repealing the increased spending on the IRS by our government officials, there’s a higher than usual chance that you could get settled and then funding is stripped and your job is cut.
I have 2 CPA friends who are married. They made a lot of money working for Big-4 and national firms and lived frugally. They wanted to reduce their hours and applied to the IRS. They were both rejected. I sincerely doubt the IRS has more than a few employees who know more about partnership tax than one of these people. It's interesting that you wouldn't list the actual hiring process as a reason to not consider a government job. I can't imagine anyone with talent putting themselves through that process twice.
I applied for an IRS job with 3 years of experience,BS,MS and got rejected almost immediately.
Then you fucked up your application.
It’s probably not too hard to mess up when the process is so crappy in the first place. Easy to blame without looking inward first - cause it’s easy.
i'm interested. i just need to graduate first. it's the perfect job for me actually, (what i'm hoping will be) adequate training, no overtime hours, possibility of WFH, don't have to worry about retirement, etc. i'm a single person and have no intention of starting a family or owning a home, so i don't mind the low pay. i'm also incredibly low maintenance and boring. the problem is.. most people aren't like me. most people have hobbies, sometimes expensive ones, some people like to travel and go on trips, some people want families, some people have cars and homes to maintain. you can't do that on a gov't salary. no one that works for the gov't should be struggling to live a decent life and yet.. also, the hiring process takes forever. who wants to wait 6 months to make 60k in NYC? i don't even need a degree to make that here. i know hr has no control over these things. but yeah. you're wondering why.
My husband works for the IRS, he did the pathway program so he received a grade up every year for the first 5 years. Started at an incredibly low wage but paid off by year 5. He absolutely would be making another min 30k though if he was in private/public but would work more than 40 hours a week. I also have an accounting degree and ruled it out for two reasons; 1. The training isn’t remote. I am not interested in flying out a couple times a year for weeks at a time simply to learn as a group while everyone, including the teachers, hate being there. 2. I would most likely have a pay decrease.
Not worth it. 1.) Bloated agency with zero accountability. 2.) Absurdly long hiring process that supports the first point. 3.) Pay and growth opportunities are not as great as current IRS employees make them seem. Much better opportunities in industry.
1) 18 years experience in the IRS and I disagree. 2) Agreed, but we’re working on it. 3) Take your industry job and figure out what you actually make. 50-60 hours a week? IRS works 37.5 hours. And I take 6-8 weeks vacation every year. Money isn’t everything.
Based on my experience, IRS pay is competitive with private especially on a per-hour basis. Where it lacks is IRS doesn't have jobs that pay 200k/year like private or CPA firms. Reality is though most will never make it to partner or CFO even staying their entire career in industry or public accounting.
Would the IRS hire someone in their 50s with a few years experience in tax ? No CPA.
Absolutely. A lot of people in their 50’s come in to work the 5 year minimum before retirement just for the health insurance after retirement.
Yes. We have new hires with zero tax experience starting. IRS doesn't care how old you are. You could be 85 and if you're qualified they will hire you.
What are you making with the IRS after 18 years? What is the highest level a new hire (with say 10 plus years/half of that being a Controller) could start out at? Genuinely curious, I’d love less hours/more time off but don’t want to take a monster pay cut.
I’m around $190K. It’s not crazy for you to come into LBI as a GS14. Check your locality pay table for the pay rate. Step increases possible at hiring based on specialized experience.
And that's 190k working max 40 hours/week and being able to easily take your vacation/sick time. For others, do you think if you're getting paid 190k/year in private or public and only working 40 hours/week year round? Very unlikely.
I attended the virtual meeting the LB&I group had from LinkedIn and asked how to apply. The IRS person told me to email them my resume, which it did and I have not heard anything from them. I have a BS and master of accounting with a law degree (licensed attorney also) and thought it would be a good fit. The hiring process is so terrible there are not words. If the IRS really cares about getting quality people, they would have a quality process - it’s like trying to attract a food aficionado with cold fries from McDonalds. Fix your hiring speed and process and you’d have no shortage of quality people.
Couple points: 1. You can have 18 years of experience but it’s still a bloated agency. 2. Glad we agree. 3.) Hypotheticals that laser focus on one specific scenario don’t work well in arguments. I don’t work anywhere near 50-60 hours a week in industry. I make more than I would at the IRS, even if we convert it to an hourly rate using the 37.5 hours.
I worked for the state government right out of college in 2017. It was great honestly stable job and good benefits. I left last year cause I felt that I shouldn’t be at the top of my field before I’m 30. There’s no incentive to further your career and you’re sitting around waiting for people to retire.
I’m actually in the hiring process for a SBSE revenue agent position. Filling out the insane background check now. Two things stop me. Pay (tho for this role I’m starting at a GS12 step 10 so only a 10% or so pay cut) and the insanely long time it takes to do literally anything. It’s been probably 10 months since I applied and I’m still in the process. Will take a year once all is said and done. That being said, I like the description of the role so I don’t think I’ll be bored, which has been a problem in the past for me. Guess we’ll find out!!
I applied and got a FJO at GS13. Declined and reapplied and got an offer at GS7.
The pay is a major concern. When they came to recruit at my college, they said you would be at 60k with like a 1k increase every year. That is just not suitable to live on comfortably and we have continuously heard the IRS does not have the resources as other firms do. The cost/benefit is just not there.
For me, not only is the pay pretty low, but governments are so inefficient. To me, that’s an extremely frustrating work environment. Every now and then, I deal with government customers and the amount of red tape and terrible policies makes working with them unpleasant.
What’s the best path forward for those who are interested in a government job?
I applied probably 15 times got no call back. I am CPA eligible now with my master and will test the market again but govt dont seem to want me.
For me the pay was too low. I went to an in person hiring event, and walked out with an tjo. Unfortunately my hr rep said they were not able to adjust my starting salary and life is too expensive for me to have taken a 20k pay cut. Very unfortunate but I think the pay scale in general needs to be adjusted.
I smoke pot and dont want to move to Birmingham Alabama
hmmm, ex punk rocker who has been smoking mj for 25+ years and am a Controller. Working for the govt would be ok if they didn't exclude Ralph Nader from the debate on Oct 4th 2000, and if Ronald Reagan hadn't stuck his greasy alzheimers riddled arms so deep into the social security fund to bail out the boomers portfolio investments that it put all the inevitable nails in that coffin decades ago. Maybe... yeah... The government sucks?
After a year in corporate America, I said fuck this shit and applied and got it. Here is the thing, the consensus being talked about here is correct. Government is horrendously slow, inefficient, and does a bad job marketing/communicating the benefits. I ultimately took matters into my own hands because I really saw the value in this opportunity. I went to a job fair event being held by the IRS, and got the job on the spot. I cannot recommend this path enough for those who want to join. You basically will get your choice of where you want to work, and I was able to choose between SBSE and TEGE. They’re even handing out 15k recruitment incentive bonuses which is absolutely insane imo for the government. It’s the opportunity of a life time, and they won’t hire forever. Cannot recommend it enough, only problem is government is slow and inefficient, so be proactive and take matters into your own hands
Hiring process is too long & the requirements are too ridiculous. No real change making ability just a cog in the wheel which makes life really overwhelming.
they don't pay enough. that's it and that's all. (also they drug test and fuck that)
You guys still drug test. I’m not a stoner, but I like edibles every now and then.
I graduated 2 years ago and considered going into government. I applied for an IRS job, was sent the required testing information, and didn't continue after that. I'm not doing required testing for such a low paying job. I ended up in industry at a very large public company. 1. Colleges pretty much only push public. The one professor that didn't, said only the most mediocre accounting grads go to the IRS. 2. Yes, pay is far too low 3. Not necessarily 4. Offshoring 5. I'd be fine working for the IRS. But the application process is awful, the pay is awful, and I would worry about job security bc politicians love to cut IRS funding.
What makes you think we’re not? There’s not exactly a shortage of IRS jobs, you know. They get snatched up pretty quick
Ive been in both tax and audit in public. Industry as well. The pay is too low at gs5. That being said, hire me OP. Im wrapping up an application later today.
If you have tax experience you don't need to go in at gs5. I came in at 13
Can confirm it takes forever. I’ve had several applications with the IRS since I graduated for months now and have heard nothing really. I do have an interview for an accountant position with the recreation department in my city so local gov could be a thing to look into.
1. Job Application process and resume template has a different standard from the industry/public accounting 2. The hiring feedback takes much longer than industry/public accounting. for public accounting you would know whether you get the job within typically 2 weeks, including the interview process. The government hiring team seems to use different types of screen on resume from industry/public accounting, can you share some tips?
I've applied multiple times and then receive a notice that I'm found eligible BUT am not being referred to the hiring manager?????
1. Hiring process is Byzantine and intimidating. 2. Low pay relative to industry. 3. Can become pigeonholed. 4. Battleground for partisan politics in Congress. 5. Beholden to budget cuts. 6. Experience is not as highly valued as other fields such as public accounting or industry. 7. Antiquated systems and processes.
If a young person asked me if he/she should start career with the government(s), I would say no. The pace of learning is way faster in the private sectors. Young people should learn what they need for the first ten years, and then join the government to building on their careers.
I’ll also chime in that I pass over any government jobs because I live in a weed legal state and I’m not going to be subjected to drug tests. Once federally legal, then I’ll consider.
I can't speak for IRS, but in my home country of Canada the issues with government roles: -Hiring process is messy and takes too long. Upload resume & cover letter and done. If you get to the next step, upload criminal check and diploma/transcript and done. Then interview(s) promptly after. Shouldn't be more than that. -Pay is average, but since it's govt and there are no bonuses, I think it needs to supplemented with more vacation time. I think it's fair to blackout tax season, and give another 2 weeks. We get 3-4 in govt to start in Canada, not sure what IRS is. Imo government should start at 4 and get to 6 pretty quick. -Again, not sure what the rules are in USA, but making sure remote work/flexible work hours is available when possible. This is an easy make or break for many people. I'd take less pay over in-office any day. -The work is kind of boring, but I think this can be supplemented by finding the people interested in advancing and bringing them into other situations. Especially outside of tax season. Eg. maybe throw a junior auditor on a forensic project or a special foreign corporate audit or something, and see if they like a different branch. Or start a program where time saving projects (eg. using VBA to save time on a spreadsheet, or AI to save time) where people can earn something non-monetary.
I applied and got a FJO at GS13. Declined and reapplied and got an offer at GS7.
Because i tried for 2 gs 7 positions and got turned away despite 2 years of tax experience
They took 3ish months to reach out and I found and signed another offer by then
1. The answer to this question will be school-specific, but the biggest reason new accounting graduates go into public accounting or industry is for experience, CPA sign-off, and promotion/pay progression. In addition, the firms and large companies are on-campus recruiting throughout the year. People say “yes” to people they know. I never saw gov at campus events. 2. The pay, PTO, and fringe benefits are not just low, it's completely misaligned with public/private accounting opportunities. 3. Job doesn't offer equivalent training and support compared to public accounting & F500 companies, this is especially important for recent graduates and CPA candidates. 4. Lack of defined career path. Starting in public or F500 the career paths are clear and as you meet tenured colleagues, you gain an understanding of how your career can evolve. You might start in audit, move into transactions mid-career, and then become an SME or an executive. The IRS doesn't do a good job of selling how one's career can grow and transform over a 20 or 30-year horizon; it's not a compelling sales pitch to a young person IMO.
Benefits are nice, pay ain’t
Government jobs (in my experience) run on nepotism and hierarchy. If you TRY to do something right or good and it’s not “what’s always been done”… you’re a problem.
Prolly low pay honestly they came to my college career fair advertising a “competitive” pay of 44k a year state government
Traveling for the job sucks.
As a federal employee not with the IRS, the way to attract folks will never be pay. Government pays less. What you can offer is better benefits (e.g. health insurance, retirement, flexible schedules, PTO), work life balance, and serving the mission (e.g. people want public servant). I don’t know if your trouble is offering folks jobs at the wrong grade (many comments in this post about that). I think IRS is on GS scale but as someone in an agency that is not GS scale, we can attract more candidates since the pay is better. I know you can’t change that. It government hiring needs an overhaul. I think you can do outreach in the community/colleges and highlight the mission of IRS and what it’s like to be a public servant. That is something that appeals to many. Especially if trying to overcome the image of stereotypes of government employees. Also flexible schedules are a perk 5/4/9s or leave as a selling point. Finally the ability to work from home is huge but there are politicians who have an interest to eliminate that due to bullshit reasons.
For myself it's not what I enjoy doing. I love doing all the day to day aspects of accounting. Accounts Payable, Accounts Receivable, Payroll, General Ledger/Journal entries. Banking and reconciliation. I also manage all of HR. It's the same work but no day is ever the same.
I went to a hiring event and got an offer for gs9 with just over a year and a half in public tax, no cpa. It was still about a 12k paycut from what I was making previously in public and they declined my step increase request. Prob would recommend it more if they would be willing to throw a bit more money at us. Plus I think the office I got assigned to doesn't offer parking for employees so I'll prob have to pay on the days I go in.
Anyone that actually wants to accomplish anything has no interest in spending 40 hours a week doing 10 hours of work (when really busy) for a maximum of middle class pay after 15 years.
I would love to work for the IRS. I'm sick of corporate accounting. I applied over 3 weeks ago, and from what I'm hearing, it could be several more weeks before I hear back. Besides that, it took a long time to figure out the pay scale, application process, etc.
Personally I'm nervous about the election. I don't want to get laid off right after starting. Also heard the last time Trump was President the IRS started only investigating poor people and barely any wealthy people. Would be rough to do that for 4 years.
You'd have to pay me a shitton to work for the IRS. People already hate me enough in external audit.
The schools arw bought by big4. They dont mention all the cool agency jobs out there
People associate gov employees with incompetence. Ever spent any amount of time at the post office or the dmv? Also the pay is low, no stock options. It’s the place people with no ambition go to slack off and bask in job security, good benefits.
Normally I am a lurker, but this post interested me enough to post. I can say that I am interested in Government jobs. I recently hit 2 years within my state's government as a Grant Auditor. Prior to this I worked as a Revenue Agent for less than 1 year. I quit that position for a few reasons. 1. The pay was too low, my posting was in a city that had the RoUS classification, but the cost of living in/near that city was notably higher than a different city in the state that started out \~$1.70 per hour higher than RoUS. I started during the 2nd wave of hiring after COVID hit, so a small grace was that I worked remotely most of the time, however there was a major push to get back to being fully in office. Part of this was also due to having to start as a GS 5, as I had graduated with my BA at the end of 2019 and I was unable to get experience within the field prior to COVID. 2. The work environment was very slow to adapt/change, even by governmental standards. The PoD that I was assigned to was just starting to make the change to electronic working papers, but we were still mostly using hard copies of work sheets/support which felt like wasted time. Some programs/systems that we used were fairly modern, but there were a couple that felt like they predated windows 95. More specifically one of the systems that we used to look up case information had an interface similar to DOS/command prompt. 3. Dealing with John/Jane Taxpayer. The area that I was in dealt mostly with schedule C returns for individuals with <$1M, where most people would file themselves but have very little knowledge of what was and was not allowable. It felt like baby sitting in a way to try and get people to respond either by phone or mail. When you could get a hold of them, it was always a mixed bag, not always bad but seldomly pleasant. It was also difficult to simplify tax regulations to the point the average person can understand it. 4. The budget cuts affecting the IRS for at least the decade prior to my employment. This resulted in my PoD being limited in supplies, support, and equipment that could be provided to new RAs. Compare this to my current job. 1. The pay at the state level is better, at least at first. I started at the state with an entry level approximately $4 higher per hour than I did as an RA. I will concede that the pay scale for an RA does go higher than my current position, but would take 4 or 5 years to match it, and then 5+ to exceed it. As a plus side, my current job aims to keep remote work/hybrid work for personnel that are not absolutely necessary to have in office. Even working hybrid, going into the office twice a week, I was able to find an area where the cost of living was significantly lower while still having a decent commute to work. One other item that my current job does better is benefits, they pay a greater percentage of insurance premiums than the IRS did, so I ended up with much better insurance for the same cost to me. 2. The work environment is pretty stereotypical for government about adapting/changing work processes, but they did start out with electronic workpapers at least. Most systems/software feel comparable to office settings in the private sector. 3. Dealing with professionals, generally. My area audits grants dealing with county agencies or non-profits throughout the state. Most of these organizations have a dedicated accountant/CFO/controller/etc. Dealing with someone who has similar knowledge is so much easier. 4. The department that I work for has a fairly good amount of federal and state funding, as such supplies, support, and equipment feel adequate. See reply for answer to your question specifically.
Do you offer remote? Is it really remote or are you gonna ask them to come to the office to log into zoom calls? 😑 THATS why. And no offense but government salaries are ..... Lower than the private sector. Also those USAJOBS resume processes need significant reform. When I was looking for a job, I intentionally skipped all the federal jobs, except for the ones that were like my dream job. I did that because it would take me like 30 minutes to fill out a USA job application. It was tedious, unnecessary, and indeed can have me apply to a job with a few clicks, literally within 15 seconds. They have a one click apply option. So as a job seeker, who has accounting and finance experience. I'm telling you, it's the USA jobs process, and The fact that you guys are obsessed with making people commute to the office. Nobody likes traffic in DC, and people hate driving through Maryland. If you want to attract more talent, specifically accounting talent. You're going to have to compete with the private market for them. Make the application process easier. I should be able to apply to a federal job with a few clicks. May be incorporate AI into the process to make this happen, I don't know. But I promise you, as a person who has accounting experience, applying on indeed, using one click apply process, has always gotten me remote job offers that are over 6 figures.
I work for my state's auditor's office and we have had very few qualified applicants in a major metro area. The IPA firms in the area are also having difficulty maintaining sufficient staffing levels too from what I gather. I've had some of my best staff leave in the last couple years and the reason given each time was they found a similar position elsewhere that offered more money. Some of those were for local governments (schools, counties, cities) and some were to IPA firms. I personally am content to be a government auditor/accountant. Pay may be a bit lower than I could get elsewhere, but the perks are pretty great. I'm like 95% work from home, 11 paid holidays, lots of accrued time off with options to cash out a portion each year (I treat this like a Christmas bonus each year), nice health insurance, and a pension.
Well if you have any experience with accouting, you might know govt sector actually needs informed decisions maker in their field and based on that they are upgrading their systems as well for the analysing of the data. And it's been quite a thoughtful step by the govt and even the accountants are recognising this fact and are moving to govt sector
I've applied to tons of government jobs over the years, especially before I studied accounting since it was a career switch for me. My experience has been to wait 6 months for them to tell me they dont even want to talk to me when I meet or exceed the requirements. I've been tempted to throw in to an irs position or two but it always seems like a ton of work to not get a quick turnaround. I'm honestly okay with the wages not being super up top. Benefits matter. They just always seem to be hiring 100+ miles from me, looking for people way above my qualifications, or I don't get traction. So why spend the energy?
Government (State) worker here. Just here to say that I love my job. I worked in public before, and although the State initially offered me much lower pay, they matched (plus a little more) once I sent something to support how much I was making. I’ve been here 3 years and I’ve gotten $16/hour in raises. I might just be lucky but we have great leadership that supports growth and promotions if you work hard, and the work life balance is wonderful.
BACK AS A NEW COLLEGE GRAD, my answer would be that I didn’t know IRS was an option. They don’t push government jobs in college, only cpa firms and companies. I didn’t even know IRS jobs was an option until I my coworker mentioned it years later and insisted I apply. IRS should start attending career fairs at universities After graduating, I applied to multiple jobs looking for any offer, at any pay. Had I heard iRS was an option, I would have applied to IRS, but end up taking something else because (1) IRS takes way too long to hire , assuming the job isn’t canceled and (2) most of the listing require prior work experience which I didn’t have as a new grad.
I’d love a nice government job but public accounting pays too well for me to leave. The pay cut would be ridiculous.
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