Learn from it and move on if what you say about prior performance is true. Shit happens, you dropped the ball sure, but bad periods happen and we’re all human. Keep at it.
Second above.
You are not screwed if you didn’t learn anything from this. With that said, stop paying penance and start showing yourself grace. You are more than this. If they shit on you during performance review time, let it roll off your back. You already learned the lessons and forgiven yourself. You don’t need their approval. The world keeps turning on the axis with or without the firm.
Yea and it’s not a situation where they now owe millions or anything. In this situation it’s more of a learning situation and if OP is a sensitive type of person they might be making more of this issue than those in management thought of it. It was a test to see if they could promote to manager which they failed due to time management and communication issues. However, OP took responsibility so it’s not like their shot at manager is dead.
Learn from it and move on, better yet come next review improve on those skills and use it as a talking point about how you’ve improved.
I told them I’d be better going forward but they didn’t really care to hear it. I’ve been overwhelmed with my other jobs which I’ve made known to my managers. I just thought it was kind of bullshit that I’m on 3 different jobs when there’s other staff who are only on one or have no work at all. I feel like they could have given one of my jobs to someone else but again I should have spoken up. Regardless I’m in the dog house with that manager and probably will be for a very long time. From the tone they used it seemed like they don’t want to work with me again.
Had a situation where I was scrambling because of a client not giving me information. Ended up to the point where I got tripped up on receivables… Def was a bad time with the partner. Went in after the weekend (after some time to simmer) and told him I was working on not being as “scattered”. It’s been over a year since then and everything is better. More “putting up and shutting up” rn would be better I think.
Maybe you should’ve spoken up; but the partner and manager should have been following up with you as a second year staff in the in-charge role at a client that was inadequately scheduled and probably was a known problem.
We all have jobs like this; we all mess up one thing here and there; but, that client largely shares in the blame.
I hate the term mange up, 1 or 2 reminders is sufficient so if a non-administrative partner need more that that, they’ll be waiting an eternity for me to send them. I’m a SM and the staff and seniors under me never beg for my reviews. Thats because I know what is happening with my clients, my leads for new business, and my administrative tasks.
I deal with 2 partner’s that are heads of massive industry groups, a third that is head of a very large portion of the US, and a fourth that is head of one of our international teams. These partners are actually busier than you can imagine, live by their schedule’s,and despite this I’ve rarely if ever had ask for anything twice.
They made it known in the PY that the client was difficult with getting them support so that’s why they only put a week on my schedule bc they didn’t want to dedicate too much time if we weren’t going to get support. Problem is after that week I’m booked until September so there was no room to put it on my schedule so I told them I’d do it at night. Like stay an extra hour / work an hour here and there on the weekends to keep moving it along. I don’t know what changed all of a sudden but now they’re pushing to file and I was caught with my pants down essentially.
Yeah it sounds like a client management problem caused by the Partner and Manager and less of a “first time in-charge” issues.
I think making a list of outstanding requests with due dates for each time in excel is the way forward. You can then share with the partner, manager, and eventually the client so everyone knows the score. I’d spend no more time than that on it until they can schedule dedicated time for work to be completed.
Completely agree. Partner and manager need to be monitoring the situation, if not from afar. To only have a week of your time knowing there are delays and you have other priorities is setting you up for failure. Certainly there are things you could have done better, but while you’re looking in the mirror maybe they should too.
As a 2nd year staff I had no clue what I was doing, let alone to be able in charge of an audit.
They should’ve been on top of you more considering they sign off on it, not you.
So, you will need to push back a bit against the idea it is your fault. It is the clients fault and the schedules fault.
You should have been up front with manager about the delays. Give them updates on your week that you aren't moving as fast as you like because x y z. The manager should have given you mentorship on how to push the client. Even scheduling calls on Wednesday and Thursday to "work through questions" when you don't get responses by Tuesday.
But regardless, it sounds like you were not set up for success. One week is not enough time to even build a relationship with a client. Plus this client knows that they can be as slow as they want because it doesn't matter. It's on the partner to push them to not be slow.
Responding to client while working other jobs is a skill that is tough to learn. But it is also on the manager to juggle multiple jobs. They have a much easier time because they have the experience and don't have to do detail work.
On your end, you should have kept the manager in the loop that you're buried with other jobs. I've told a manager during a status update that I have the other job on the back burner and they basically respond don't even think about that other job focus on this one with the close deadline.
Overall this is on the manager. But it's also a good lesson in office politics and how to keep the manager in the loop while also defending yourself from taking blame you don't deserve.
I did let them know that I had 2 other jobs with 6/30 deadlines and that I’d work on those during the day and would do their job either at night or on the weekends. For a short period of time it was fine but then things started to pickup with the other 2 jobs as we approach 6/30 and I needed my full attention to be towards those. I should have let the manager know then and there instead of trying to do all at once and not deliver on promises made when I said I’d get X workpaper done by and it blew up in my face.
It can be a bit of both. Half on the client and half on me not following up on open items / getting workpapers done in time. By me pushing back I feel like it’s me coming up with excuses and not taking full accountability. That’s not a reputation I want to have in the firm. Ultimately I should have caught the open items and followed up immediately but I didn’t and it’s lead to this point. I don’t think I’m going to be fired but I think it’ll be a long time before the manager and I are on good terms again.
Ultimately it sounds like either poor managers or you're too slow. You should never have told them you'd work nights. You should never have to work outside your hours unless you have stuffed up and or are too slow at your job.
Your managers should have stopped you there when you said you'll work nights and weekends to get it done. This is because if you're working outside your hours, you'll become burnt out quickly and this is how you miss things or do things incorrectly.
Therefore as soon as you made it clear you were working overtime to get things done, management should have stepped in to assist. Only time you should ever work over is if you know you're too slow due to a fault of your own and not unforeseen circumstances.
Unless you're the boss or the manager for the job, then you should always make it known you're struggling with deadlines and why. That way the team can help out where required and can make for a smoother office experience for everyone.
Take this as a learning curve, speak up and make yourself heard. If noone listens and you're struggling with deadlines due to no fault of your own, then maybe that place isn't the best to be working for.
Edit: We are all human and only can do our best. Learn from our mistakes, move forward and evaluate the situation and find the right outcome. Either improve where you can and if the same things keep happening might need a new workplace or a new career
Private is more of a term that you are no longer serving the public as an Auditor/Tax professional. Kind of like when a lawyer stops working for a law firm serving the public and begins to work for 1 company (or parent company).
Can you go private out of the gate and skip the whole working for public experience? I’ve been considering going to back to school to get a degree for accounting I’ve been reading that if you can go non public industry it’s a pretty good life
Yes, but those that go into public accounting often accelerate their careers due to the breadth of knowledge and experience that you gain. At least 5 years is what I would recommend. After that jobs will find you. I get messages everyday now on linked in for different opportunities.
Those are more rarer nowaday's, \~ 4-5 a month. Most people at the firm I worked at ended up working for a client of the firm (Including me). The client already knows you and your capabilities, and you know the work environment. So its usually a very smooth process.
Interesting I did do a search the other day on remote jobs and there were some options for sure, idk if they were really good ones or whatever but they were there
I hear you there.. it’s tough though I know starting a new career no matter what isn’t going to be easy and without sacrifice but from what i see people say getting into public for a the few years to get experience then go after what you want is the way but idk if im cut out for public
One guy in one of the threads claims that he only looks for remote jobs in accounting at this point in his career and said last time he quit a job he found another remote job within 10 days
Nah this shit starts happening a lot as you move up to senior. They put a job on your schedule for a week and then expect you to “get it done” even though you’ve moved onto three other jobs by the time you get the support you need.
I eventually got fed up with eating shit and left for private. So that’s always an option for you, but if you want to stay, I would recommend developing an acquired taste for shit sandwiches with extra mustard
Yeah I mean I understand it. First time it’s happened to me so it’s a wake up call. This whole thing won’t matter in a year from now. Sucks but it is what it is. It’s just accounting. No one is gonna die.
Sometimes expectations put on you aren’t realistic. Could you have done what they wanted if you were perfect? Maybe, but perfect isn’t a reasonable expectation.
If my other jobs didn’t have 6/30 deadlines and I didn’t have 2 of them then yes I would have definitely been able to dedicate more time and double check my work for this audit but unfortunately it didn’t work out.
You gotta follow up with people like a hawk is what i learned. I dont give a shit if people find it annoying at this point. You gotta cover your own ass and you need to get the things you need to get because your job depends on it. If people are upset about it, then dont be late and get stuff in timely.
It sounds like you got put on a shitty client that nobody cares about and it went shitty. Your manager is probably frustrated that it’s on them now but honestly these clients are everywhere in public. Partner probably has six of them and doesn’t care.
In the future you have to babysit the hell out of these clients. Setup time to pull PBCs and sit there with them while they do it.
I was more so voluntold to perform this audit and the other 2 jobs were on my schedule for months prior. I told the partner and manager on the initial planning meeting call I had 2 other jobs with 6/30 deadlines which were actually on my schedule. They told me to stick with this one as it’ll be good experience. Well I got an experience alright lol.
Appreciate the feedback though. I don’t think I’ll be fired but I’m def on that managers shit list for the time being.
Imma be real. You were thrown into the deep water and they didn't care if you'd drown. The 3 jobs you were put on? They didn't care you were on 3 jobs. They only care that theirs werent done. They were expecting a miracle from you and they WILL punish you for it if you're not that miracle. And if you're? They now know that you're a workhorse and WILL pile more work on you.
Learn what you can and progress as you will, this is not a reflection on you. This is just what audit is.
At the mercy of your manager, yes. If the market condition is good, though, they wouldn't be too harsh on you. If it's bad, they will absolutely use it as a bullet to shoot you.
Just keep your head up.
I mean I’m in pretty good standing with all the other managers and I’m booked through the middle of September. My reviews were positive. If it happens though so be it.
I love the "ask for help when you are overwhelmed" comment.
Who assigned you the June deadlines? Did they reassign the larger file at that time, or did they expect you to work 100 hours a week?
Your firms workflow systems suck.
The June deadlines I’ve been working on since the start of May. 2 months for 2 audits. Doable. Not gigantic clients. They just threw this one on top of those even though they clearly saw them on my schedule.
I’m a Big 4 manager (tax though).
I’d just use this as a way to work on things you’ve mentioned here.
Ask for help if you need it and WHEN you need it.
I also have trouble circling back to some things like open items but I promise you have the 30 minutes it takes to double check those and send an email out to a client. Or at least that’s what I tell myself when I feel like I don’t have that time.
Remember that anything you’re beating yourself up for you’ll likely be over soon. It sounds like you have generally good work so don’t forget that. I can’t remember anything from this past busy season that caused me so much stress, but I can remember what’s happened today to bug me. But I’ll address it as it comes and likely forget about it this weekend.
Also, a manager letting a second year staff “take the reins” just to “cook them” is silly. Letting you have freedom is one thing but so much that it apparently became an issue reflects poorly on their management. You should schedule a weekly touchpoint with them on this client, which they should’ve done with you if they’re managing it.
Anyway, don’t let it bug you too much. Who doesn’t make mistakes.
Appreciate the feedback. Just kind of feel shitty this was an opportunity to really take charge of the audit and I botched it completely. It’ll pass with time and this won’t matter a year from now but in the moment it’s a shit feeling. I’ll be sure to keep in touch with my managers and let them know if I need help going forward.
As you move forward in your career and get promoted, remember this situation, the lessons learned, and how people made you feel. I think anyone you mentor in the future will really appreciate the grace you show them as they’re learning the industry. Emphasis on details and correcting mistakes can be handled without yelling and affecting people’s confidence.
I’ve always tried to lead my engineering tasks with the attitude of a team approach - my peers are not working for me, they’re working with me. Does wonders for morale, problem solving, and team cohesiveness! My son just finished his first audit ‘busy season’ having to work entirely remote with a coach that could stand to improve her management style. Had him second guessing his career choice and self confidence by the time the season ended. Not what I hoped for him with his first full time accounting experience. He doesn’t want to go through another busy season and is looking for another job.
This happens all the time. Bad clients don’t provide things on time and the work can’t get done in the time allotted, yet the in-charge is still expected to get the work done in their “free time”. Yes you should’ve followed up with the client sooner, but the partner also sucks for blaming you that the client didn’t provide things on time and you rolled off onto other jobs and couldn’t get the work done. This is the exact reason I’m leaving public. Too much stress that’s out of your control. You can be the best auditor in the world and always follow up with your clients and stay on-top of your requests, but at the end of the day you have no control over whether the client provides the PBCs on time, whether you have enough time/staffing to complete the engagement, or whether the partner reviews your work on time.
Hey literally my story for 2 of the last 4 audits I've done. New to senioring. Took clients a week at a time to upload stuff, or just didn't understand what I was asking for and didn't send anything with my thinking they were working on it. Then 5 minutes before the audit is due, they suddenly care and provide all the documentation.
I am still learning the "pushing the client" part. Honestly the hardest part of the job is managing the client, and where my pitfalls have been.
You’ll be fine, this is the “top performer trap” as it’s known around my brain.
Exceeding expectations initially, autonomously able to get work done without taking time from other people, all new works gets shoveled your way, eventually you hit the breaking point of not enough time in the day to get to everything you need to get to and something takes a hit.
I get around this best I can by trying to be as clear as possible about current priorities and what you’re planning on bumping to a later date (CYA). Essentially tell them what to expect, if they have an issue with your task prioritization they can let you know before there’s an actual issue with something important being delayed.
Feel bad but use it as a learning experience. Since it was a reach assignment for you, there’s a fair amount of leniency and as your overall standing is good, it shouldn’t impact making senior. Theoretically. In the future, be proactive in planning, make a game plan and assessment early on with your manager or whoever is responsible. Once in it, be super communicative especially when things are going awry, the client isn’t moving on things. Include them in all client emails and schedule routine status check-ins, internally as well as with the client if they want to do that.
The partner and the manager set you up to fail bud. Sure you could've spoken up earlier, but they shouldn't have put you in that situation in the first place and made sure that you had sufficient time across the period to do this work instead of you having to work multiple jobs/weekends etc. Given your experience level they also should have been on the front foot checking in with you and talking to your other managers to ensure they were aware of your workload. I've been there, try not to let it get to you and, as others have said, use it as an opportunity to learn and be more proactive about communicating your status and workload with everyone.
As someone on the receiving end of an audit I recommend creating a shared tracker and having a weekly check in call regarding w client regarding open items, and new items on the list. Aside from the mistake you made (I’ve had auditors come back to something weeks later as well it happens,) I think it’s your responsibility to set the pace and push things along. That shows project leadership
You're still early on and this is a learning experience most of us have when working with multiple clients. Probably has happened to that manager before. Sounds like you learned from it already. You'll be fine. Absolute worst case you wait an extra year for Senior.
As a senior I ride my clients ass for support. If one person isn’t getting back to me I repeatedly ask and start CCing their managers, or just go around them and start asking other people. They bitch about me to the partners sometimes and say I’m rude, but my jobs get done on time and on budget. The partners don’t give a shit they get to play good cop and be friendly and I do the dirty work.
3 things
1/ yes, it is your fault that you didn't catch errors here and there. However, you're a staff 2 and as such, your manager should have kept a tighter leash on you. This is as much of a reflection of you as it does of him, but the culture of audit does not allow for fighting back, so you're the one being chewed out. So this isn't really 100% your fault, maybe at most 60%. With that being said.
2/ take what the manager chew you out on and work on those. Be more "pushy" toward the client. As auditors, sometimes the moment we let off the gas the client automatically forget that we exist, because they also have their day job to worry about. If you have to be pushy to get the job done, be pushy (and you will 100% get bashed in review time because you were pushy, because in this alternative universe where the audit get done the client will complain to your manager that you were being pushy leading to the manager chewing you out anyway. This is why audit as a profession is a joke but I digress)
3/ you're pretty screwed, but depending on market condition you may or may not get a bonus. Also depending on market condition it may or may not affect your promotion.
I don’t think I’m going to be fired but yeah I’d say majority of it was on me. If I get let go then I’m just jumping to private. Don’t need the stress. I like what I do but I got enough problems going on in my life. I don’t need any more.
Im reading this and all I can think is poor guy. Glad im not in public.
1. It’s not THAT deep. It’s an audit, your missed deadlines just means extra paperwork and extra clicks.
2. Unfortunately, the majority of people in the public accounting environment will never see it as such.
Long story short, don’t take it to heart. Shit happens. Mistakes are made, and this is definitely a justifiable mistake. You’re a 2nd year! If it bothers you THAT much, I would legit just go industry. I got a 30% raise to work 1/4th (stress 1/10th) the amount I would be doing in public.
Fourth year senior associate for a mid level firm, my firm provides each of us with career advisors (usually managers) who are there to advocate for your accomplishments and give guidance in these situations. If you have one I would take this situation to them and let them know what happened, your concerns, and how you know what you need to in the future.
Regularly managers and partners get together to go over year end evaluations and having your side of the situation, even if it’s not your voice, in that room is better than only having that manager’s and partner’s.
Not to scare you but, I have known of a few managers (and in charges) that try to cover for their own blunders by blaming the lower staff. But on the up side, these individuals usually don’t last long when they try to pull it multiple times.
I’ll tell you what one of my favorite audit partners told me after a difficult conversation on an area I totally missed. Yes, we had to talk about you dropping this ball because it’s important to learn from this, but you also caught 99 other passes this busy season and that’s important to keep in mind. Basically, don’t beat yourself up too badly. Take it to heart and learn from it and never do it again.
The most important thing for you to do is learn from this. Although your manager and partner may not agree, mistakes are great learning experiences. You now know everything not to do and going forward, you’ll avoid those pitfalls. When they see you’ve made progress in these areas, they’ll take note of your ability to learn from your mistakes and how that contributed to your personal growth. Someone once told me that one of my strengths is that I rarely make the same mistake twice and that was one of the most significant compliments I ever received.
It sounds like you are being harsh on yourself. They acknowledged the client has a history of not being responsive timely. Owning that the assignment failed is mature of you but it doesn’t read to be your fault IMO. My advice would be to communicate progress and the client issues with your superiors more timely before they have a chance to blame you.
For what’s it worth, I’m an audit manager in a mid size firm that has faced this situation many times.
The partner on the job has told me before I’m very hard on myself and need to lighten up more. But part of it is my fault imo bc I should have sent out an open items list sooner instead of waiting a week or 2. I completely forgot and it screwed me. We were also waiting on support in that timeframe as well.
Happens to the best of us. Personally, I go easier on staff that I know beat themselves up because they are much harsher on themselves than I would be 😂. If you were a supervisor or something it’s a different story, chalk it up to a learning experience. Stay strong !
If you didn’t get the supports from client, you need to escalate and get your manager and partner to push the client to provide the PBCs…
I think maybe you’re not that screwed but just this is a breakdown in communication. It’s a project management skill for manager that you could build up overtime.
I would document what you thought didn't go well on the audit and what you will do differently in the future to avoid that and share it with them. Basically, a growth plan based on lessons learned that shows you have personal awareness and are pushing to learn and grow.
Beyond that, keep in mind that they let you "fail" on your first time out and didn't really offer any coaching or correction during the process. So, you have to ask yourself if that is the kind of firm you could really see yourself working for in the long term. They sat they are interested in your growth, but they aren't willing to invest time in mentoring you to really achieve that growth. If it were me, I would work hard and absorb everything I could over the next year and then start looking for my next firm or company.
First and foremost, this is the clients fault for not providing it to you the week you were scheduled. After that it’s just communicating it to your peers and not letting them take advantage of you.
Definately went about it all wrong, should of talked to the manager way back when and the client to set a time expectation, then you really need to be on them for the full time push it hard, once its seen as this isnt going to be complete (surely your time is booked based on a budget?), the audit should of been post poned until they can provide the necessary support OR staff be estimated on a more consistent basis i.e picking up a seniors time for 10 hours a week for the next 8 weeks). With that said a manager that gives up the reins to a almost not quite senior is the most absurd thing ive ever heard, did they not check in at all for weeks?
Learn from it and move on if what you say about prior performance is true. Shit happens, you dropped the ball sure, but bad periods happen and we’re all human. Keep at it.
Second above. You are not screwed if you didn’t learn anything from this. With that said, stop paying penance and start showing yourself grace. You are more than this. If they shit on you during performance review time, let it roll off your back. You already learned the lessons and forgiven yourself. You don’t need their approval. The world keeps turning on the axis with or without the firm.
Yea and it’s not a situation where they now owe millions or anything. In this situation it’s more of a learning situation and if OP is a sensitive type of person they might be making more of this issue than those in management thought of it. It was a test to see if they could promote to manager which they failed due to time management and communication issues. However, OP took responsibility so it’s not like their shot at manager is dead. Learn from it and move on, better yet come next review improve on those skills and use it as a talking point about how you’ve improved.
I told them I’d be better going forward but they didn’t really care to hear it. I’ve been overwhelmed with my other jobs which I’ve made known to my managers. I just thought it was kind of bullshit that I’m on 3 different jobs when there’s other staff who are only on one or have no work at all. I feel like they could have given one of my jobs to someone else but again I should have spoken up. Regardless I’m in the dog house with that manager and probably will be for a very long time. From the tone they used it seemed like they don’t want to work with me again.
Had a situation where I was scrambling because of a client not giving me information. Ended up to the point where I got tripped up on receivables… Def was a bad time with the partner. Went in after the weekend (after some time to simmer) and told him I was working on not being as “scattered”. It’s been over a year since then and everything is better. More “putting up and shutting up” rn would be better I think.
Yeah I’m not fighting back or making excuses. I just told them to let me know if they need any help and I apologize for letting it get to this point.
Agree 100%. You’re gonna have to earn that team’s trust again but you’ll be fine.
Maybe you should’ve spoken up; but the partner and manager should have been following up with you as a second year staff in the in-charge role at a client that was inadequately scheduled and probably was a known problem. We all have jobs like this; we all mess up one thing here and there; but, that client largely shares in the blame.
Managers and partners love to use the term "managing-up" to take the management responsibility off of them
I hate the term mange up, 1 or 2 reminders is sufficient so if a non-administrative partner need more that that, they’ll be waiting an eternity for me to send them. I’m a SM and the staff and seniors under me never beg for my reviews. Thats because I know what is happening with my clients, my leads for new business, and my administrative tasks. I deal with 2 partner’s that are heads of massive industry groups, a third that is head of a very large portion of the US, and a fourth that is head of one of our international teams. These partners are actually busier than you can imagine, live by their schedule’s,and despite this I’ve rarely if ever had ask for anything twice.
They made it known in the PY that the client was difficult with getting them support so that’s why they only put a week on my schedule bc they didn’t want to dedicate too much time if we weren’t going to get support. Problem is after that week I’m booked until September so there was no room to put it on my schedule so I told them I’d do it at night. Like stay an extra hour / work an hour here and there on the weekends to keep moving it along. I don’t know what changed all of a sudden but now they’re pushing to file and I was caught with my pants down essentially.
Yeah it sounds like a client management problem caused by the Partner and Manager and less of a “first time in-charge” issues. I think making a list of outstanding requests with due dates for each time in excel is the way forward. You can then share with the partner, manager, and eventually the client so everyone knows the score. I’d spend no more time than that on it until they can schedule dedicated time for work to be completed.
Completely agree. Partner and manager need to be monitoring the situation, if not from afar. To only have a week of your time knowing there are delays and you have other priorities is setting you up for failure. Certainly there are things you could have done better, but while you’re looking in the mirror maybe they should too.
As a 2nd year staff I had no clue what I was doing, let alone to be able in charge of an audit. They should’ve been on top of you more considering they sign off on it, not you.
Part of it is also on me for not speaking up but yes I agree. Doesn’t help the client was taking their sweet ass time with getting us support.
Yeah, you definitely have some responsibility. But they should’ve definitely had check-in meetings etc.
So, you will need to push back a bit against the idea it is your fault. It is the clients fault and the schedules fault. You should have been up front with manager about the delays. Give them updates on your week that you aren't moving as fast as you like because x y z. The manager should have given you mentorship on how to push the client. Even scheduling calls on Wednesday and Thursday to "work through questions" when you don't get responses by Tuesday. But regardless, it sounds like you were not set up for success. One week is not enough time to even build a relationship with a client. Plus this client knows that they can be as slow as they want because it doesn't matter. It's on the partner to push them to not be slow. Responding to client while working other jobs is a skill that is tough to learn. But it is also on the manager to juggle multiple jobs. They have a much easier time because they have the experience and don't have to do detail work. On your end, you should have kept the manager in the loop that you're buried with other jobs. I've told a manager during a status update that I have the other job on the back burner and they basically respond don't even think about that other job focus on this one with the close deadline. Overall this is on the manager. But it's also a good lesson in office politics and how to keep the manager in the loop while also defending yourself from taking blame you don't deserve.
I did let them know that I had 2 other jobs with 6/30 deadlines and that I’d work on those during the day and would do their job either at night or on the weekends. For a short period of time it was fine but then things started to pickup with the other 2 jobs as we approach 6/30 and I needed my full attention to be towards those. I should have let the manager know then and there instead of trying to do all at once and not deliver on promises made when I said I’d get X workpaper done by and it blew up in my face. It can be a bit of both. Half on the client and half on me not following up on open items / getting workpapers done in time. By me pushing back I feel like it’s me coming up with excuses and not taking full accountability. That’s not a reputation I want to have in the firm. Ultimately I should have caught the open items and followed up immediately but I didn’t and it’s lead to this point. I don’t think I’m going to be fired but I think it’ll be a long time before the manager and I are on good terms again.
Ultimately it sounds like either poor managers or you're too slow. You should never have told them you'd work nights. You should never have to work outside your hours unless you have stuffed up and or are too slow at your job. Your managers should have stopped you there when you said you'll work nights and weekends to get it done. This is because if you're working outside your hours, you'll become burnt out quickly and this is how you miss things or do things incorrectly. Therefore as soon as you made it clear you were working overtime to get things done, management should have stepped in to assist. Only time you should ever work over is if you know you're too slow due to a fault of your own and not unforeseen circumstances. Unless you're the boss or the manager for the job, then you should always make it known you're struggling with deadlines and why. That way the team can help out where required and can make for a smoother office experience for everyone. Take this as a learning curve, speak up and make yourself heard. If noone listens and you're struggling with deadlines due to no fault of your own, then maybe that place isn't the best to be working for. Edit: We are all human and only can do our best. Learn from our mistakes, move forward and evaluate the situation and find the right outcome. Either improve where you can and if the same things keep happening might need a new workplace or a new career
Sounds like a normal day for anyone in audit. Buckle up and get used to it, or head to private.
How to do you determine non-public/private firms when looking for a job? Do you just look them up and see if they are being publicly traded
Private is more of a term that you are no longer serving the public as an Auditor/Tax professional. Kind of like when a lawyer stops working for a law firm serving the public and begins to work for 1 company (or parent company).
Can you go private out of the gate and skip the whole working for public experience? I’ve been considering going to back to school to get a degree for accounting I’ve been reading that if you can go non public industry it’s a pretty good life
Yes, but those that go into public accounting often accelerate their careers due to the breadth of knowledge and experience that you gain. At least 5 years is what I would recommend. After that jobs will find you. I get messages everyday now on linked in for different opportunities.
Damn really how many offers for remote jobs do you get? Working public seems so life draining from what I’ve been hearing
Those are more rarer nowaday's, \~ 4-5 a month. Most people at the firm I worked at ended up working for a client of the firm (Including me). The client already knows you and your capabilities, and you know the work environment. So its usually a very smooth process.
Interesting I did do a search the other day on remote jobs and there were some options for sure, idk if they were really good ones or whatever but they were there
I was also talking from strictly remote. There are plenty of hybrid options.
I hear you there.. it’s tough though I know starting a new career no matter what isn’t going to be easy and without sacrifice but from what i see people say getting into public for a the few years to get experience then go after what you want is the way but idk if im cut out for public
One guy in one of the threads claims that he only looks for remote jobs in accounting at this point in his career and said last time he quit a job he found another remote job within 10 days
Not really?
Nah this shit starts happening a lot as you move up to senior. They put a job on your schedule for a week and then expect you to “get it done” even though you’ve moved onto three other jobs by the time you get the support you need. I eventually got fed up with eating shit and left for private. So that’s always an option for you, but if you want to stay, I would recommend developing an acquired taste for shit sandwiches with extra mustard
Too late already there
I’m just saying, what happened to you is shitty, but far from unusual and kinda happens all the time lol
Yeah I mean I understand it. First time it’s happened to me so it’s a wake up call. This whole thing won’t matter in a year from now. Sucks but it is what it is. It’s just accounting. No one is gonna die.
Sometimes expectations put on you aren’t realistic. Could you have done what they wanted if you were perfect? Maybe, but perfect isn’t a reasonable expectation.
If my other jobs didn’t have 6/30 deadlines and I didn’t have 2 of them then yes I would have definitely been able to dedicate more time and double check my work for this audit but unfortunately it didn’t work out.
You gotta follow up with people like a hawk is what i learned. I dont give a shit if people find it annoying at this point. You gotta cover your own ass and you need to get the things you need to get because your job depends on it. If people are upset about it, then dont be late and get stuff in timely.
It sounds like you got put on a shitty client that nobody cares about and it went shitty. Your manager is probably frustrated that it’s on them now but honestly these clients are everywhere in public. Partner probably has six of them and doesn’t care. In the future you have to babysit the hell out of these clients. Setup time to pull PBCs and sit there with them while they do it.
This is why I left audit, and my life has been significantly better for it.
What do you do now if you don’t mind me asking? I enjoy audit overall. I like solving puzzles which is kind of what it is. This was just a one off.
I do advisory. pays better, hours are less, and I haven’t experienced being forced to run (smaller) engagements by myself like in audit as a staff 1.
Hows the travel? Big4?
Travel has been like 10%. Yeah big 4
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That I am learning in real time for sure. Also gotta learn how to know when to speak up and say something when I need help. Also working on that.
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I was more so voluntold to perform this audit and the other 2 jobs were on my schedule for months prior. I told the partner and manager on the initial planning meeting call I had 2 other jobs with 6/30 deadlines which were actually on my schedule. They told me to stick with this one as it’ll be good experience. Well I got an experience alright lol. Appreciate the feedback though. I don’t think I’ll be fired but I’m def on that managers shit list for the time being.
Imma be real. You were thrown into the deep water and they didn't care if you'd drown. The 3 jobs you were put on? They didn't care you were on 3 jobs. They only care that theirs werent done. They were expecting a miracle from you and they WILL punish you for it if you're not that miracle. And if you're? They now know that you're a workhorse and WILL pile more work on you. Learn what you can and progress as you will, this is not a reflection on you. This is just what audit is.
So I’d be fucked either way essentially?
At the mercy of your manager, yes. If the market condition is good, though, they wouldn't be too harsh on you. If it's bad, they will absolutely use it as a bullet to shoot you. Just keep your head up.
I mean I’m in pretty good standing with all the other managers and I’m booked through the middle of September. My reviews were positive. If it happens though so be it.
I love the "ask for help when you are overwhelmed" comment. Who assigned you the June deadlines? Did they reassign the larger file at that time, or did they expect you to work 100 hours a week? Your firms workflow systems suck.
The June deadlines I’ve been working on since the start of May. 2 months for 2 audits. Doable. Not gigantic clients. They just threw this one on top of those even though they clearly saw them on my schedule.
Damn lol You are 2 years in, you'll never have problems finding work so just relax bro!
I’m a Big 4 manager (tax though). I’d just use this as a way to work on things you’ve mentioned here. Ask for help if you need it and WHEN you need it. I also have trouble circling back to some things like open items but I promise you have the 30 minutes it takes to double check those and send an email out to a client. Or at least that’s what I tell myself when I feel like I don’t have that time. Remember that anything you’re beating yourself up for you’ll likely be over soon. It sounds like you have generally good work so don’t forget that. I can’t remember anything from this past busy season that caused me so much stress, but I can remember what’s happened today to bug me. But I’ll address it as it comes and likely forget about it this weekend. Also, a manager letting a second year staff “take the reins” just to “cook them” is silly. Letting you have freedom is one thing but so much that it apparently became an issue reflects poorly on their management. You should schedule a weekly touchpoint with them on this client, which they should’ve done with you if they’re managing it. Anyway, don’t let it bug you too much. Who doesn’t make mistakes.
Appreciate the feedback. Just kind of feel shitty this was an opportunity to really take charge of the audit and I botched it completely. It’ll pass with time and this won’t matter a year from now but in the moment it’s a shit feeling. I’ll be sure to keep in touch with my managers and let them know if I need help going forward.
As you move forward in your career and get promoted, remember this situation, the lessons learned, and how people made you feel. I think anyone you mentor in the future will really appreciate the grace you show them as they’re learning the industry. Emphasis on details and correcting mistakes can be handled without yelling and affecting people’s confidence. I’ve always tried to lead my engineering tasks with the attitude of a team approach - my peers are not working for me, they’re working with me. Does wonders for morale, problem solving, and team cohesiveness! My son just finished his first audit ‘busy season’ having to work entirely remote with a coach that could stand to improve her management style. Had him second guessing his career choice and self confidence by the time the season ended. Not what I hoped for him with his first full time accounting experience. He doesn’t want to go through another busy season and is looking for another job.
This happens all the time. Bad clients don’t provide things on time and the work can’t get done in the time allotted, yet the in-charge is still expected to get the work done in their “free time”. Yes you should’ve followed up with the client sooner, but the partner also sucks for blaming you that the client didn’t provide things on time and you rolled off onto other jobs and couldn’t get the work done. This is the exact reason I’m leaving public. Too much stress that’s out of your control. You can be the best auditor in the world and always follow up with your clients and stay on-top of your requests, but at the end of the day you have no control over whether the client provides the PBCs on time, whether you have enough time/staffing to complete the engagement, or whether the partner reviews your work on time.
Hey literally my story for 2 of the last 4 audits I've done. New to senioring. Took clients a week at a time to upload stuff, or just didn't understand what I was asking for and didn't send anything with my thinking they were working on it. Then 5 minutes before the audit is due, they suddenly care and provide all the documentation. I am still learning the "pushing the client" part. Honestly the hardest part of the job is managing the client, and where my pitfalls have been.
You’ll be fine, this is the “top performer trap” as it’s known around my brain. Exceeding expectations initially, autonomously able to get work done without taking time from other people, all new works gets shoveled your way, eventually you hit the breaking point of not enough time in the day to get to everything you need to get to and something takes a hit. I get around this best I can by trying to be as clear as possible about current priorities and what you’re planning on bumping to a later date (CYA). Essentially tell them what to expect, if they have an issue with your task prioritization they can let you know before there’s an actual issue with something important being delayed.
Clients not responsive. Staffs fault. lmao
Sounds like you are working with shit partners and managers that shouldn't be in a manager role
Feel bad but use it as a learning experience. Since it was a reach assignment for you, there’s a fair amount of leniency and as your overall standing is good, it shouldn’t impact making senior. Theoretically. In the future, be proactive in planning, make a game plan and assessment early on with your manager or whoever is responsible. Once in it, be super communicative especially when things are going awry, the client isn’t moving on things. Include them in all client emails and schedule routine status check-ins, internally as well as with the client if they want to do that.
you are just not ready to run the show. Enjoy your staff time for 1 more busy season. You will get there eventually.
The partner and the manager set you up to fail bud. Sure you could've spoken up earlier, but they shouldn't have put you in that situation in the first place and made sure that you had sufficient time across the period to do this work instead of you having to work multiple jobs/weekends etc. Given your experience level they also should have been on the front foot checking in with you and talking to your other managers to ensure they were aware of your workload. I've been there, try not to let it get to you and, as others have said, use it as an opportunity to learn and be more proactive about communicating your status and workload with everyone.
As someone on the receiving end of an audit I recommend creating a shared tracker and having a weekly check in call regarding w client regarding open items, and new items on the list. Aside from the mistake you made (I’ve had auditors come back to something weeks later as well it happens,) I think it’s your responsibility to set the pace and push things along. That shows project leadership
You should’ve had regular meetings with your manager to discuss the status of your audit. They may blame you, but it’s not entirely your fault.
You're still early on and this is a learning experience most of us have when working with multiple clients. Probably has happened to that manager before. Sounds like you learned from it already. You'll be fine. Absolute worst case you wait an extra year for Senior.
Consider it a baptism by fire. Now that you've had the experience of dealing with a shitty client, you'll know how to do better with the next audit.
As a senior I ride my clients ass for support. If one person isn’t getting back to me I repeatedly ask and start CCing their managers, or just go around them and start asking other people. They bitch about me to the partners sometimes and say I’m rude, but my jobs get done on time and on budget. The partners don’t give a shit they get to play good cop and be friendly and I do the dirty work.
3 things 1/ yes, it is your fault that you didn't catch errors here and there. However, you're a staff 2 and as such, your manager should have kept a tighter leash on you. This is as much of a reflection of you as it does of him, but the culture of audit does not allow for fighting back, so you're the one being chewed out. So this isn't really 100% your fault, maybe at most 60%. With that being said. 2/ take what the manager chew you out on and work on those. Be more "pushy" toward the client. As auditors, sometimes the moment we let off the gas the client automatically forget that we exist, because they also have their day job to worry about. If you have to be pushy to get the job done, be pushy (and you will 100% get bashed in review time because you were pushy, because in this alternative universe where the audit get done the client will complain to your manager that you were being pushy leading to the manager chewing you out anyway. This is why audit as a profession is a joke but I digress) 3/ you're pretty screwed, but depending on market condition you may or may not get a bonus. Also depending on market condition it may or may not affect your promotion.
I don’t think I’m going to be fired but yeah I’d say majority of it was on me. If I get let go then I’m just jumping to private. Don’t need the stress. I like what I do but I got enough problems going on in my life. I don’t need any more.
Im reading this and all I can think is poor guy. Glad im not in public. 1. It’s not THAT deep. It’s an audit, your missed deadlines just means extra paperwork and extra clicks. 2. Unfortunately, the majority of people in the public accounting environment will never see it as such. Long story short, don’t take it to heart. Shit happens. Mistakes are made, and this is definitely a justifiable mistake. You’re a 2nd year! If it bothers you THAT much, I would legit just go industry. I got a 30% raise to work 1/4th (stress 1/10th) the amount I would be doing in public.
Funny thing about tax is that I can always fix my mistakes, even when getting audited by the IRS.
Eh one off instance. I like my job and the firm and the people there. I just fucked up on this one.
Honestly an abdication of duty by the manager to not at least check in with a second year periodically
Fourth year senior associate for a mid level firm, my firm provides each of us with career advisors (usually managers) who are there to advocate for your accomplishments and give guidance in these situations. If you have one I would take this situation to them and let them know what happened, your concerns, and how you know what you need to in the future. Regularly managers and partners get together to go over year end evaluations and having your side of the situation, even if it’s not your voice, in that room is better than only having that manager’s and partner’s. Not to scare you but, I have known of a few managers (and in charges) that try to cover for their own blunders by blaming the lower staff. But on the up side, these individuals usually don’t last long when they try to pull it multiple times.
I’ll tell you what one of my favorite audit partners told me after a difficult conversation on an area I totally missed. Yes, we had to talk about you dropping this ball because it’s important to learn from this, but you also caught 99 other passes this busy season and that’s important to keep in mind. Basically, don’t beat yourself up too badly. Take it to heart and learn from it and never do it again.
The most important thing for you to do is learn from this. Although your manager and partner may not agree, mistakes are great learning experiences. You now know everything not to do and going forward, you’ll avoid those pitfalls. When they see you’ve made progress in these areas, they’ll take note of your ability to learn from your mistakes and how that contributed to your personal growth. Someone once told me that one of my strengths is that I rarely make the same mistake twice and that was one of the most significant compliments I ever received.
It sounds like you are being harsh on yourself. They acknowledged the client has a history of not being responsive timely. Owning that the assignment failed is mature of you but it doesn’t read to be your fault IMO. My advice would be to communicate progress and the client issues with your superiors more timely before they have a chance to blame you. For what’s it worth, I’m an audit manager in a mid size firm that has faced this situation many times.
The partner on the job has told me before I’m very hard on myself and need to lighten up more. But part of it is my fault imo bc I should have sent out an open items list sooner instead of waiting a week or 2. I completely forgot and it screwed me. We were also waiting on support in that timeframe as well.
Happens to the best of us. Personally, I go easier on staff that I know beat themselves up because they are much harsher on themselves than I would be 😂. If you were a supervisor or something it’s a different story, chalk it up to a learning experience. Stay strong !
If you didn’t get the supports from client, you need to escalate and get your manager and partner to push the client to provide the PBCs… I think maybe you’re not that screwed but just this is a breakdown in communication. It’s a project management skill for manager that you could build up overtime.
I would document what you thought didn't go well on the audit and what you will do differently in the future to avoid that and share it with them. Basically, a growth plan based on lessons learned that shows you have personal awareness and are pushing to learn and grow. Beyond that, keep in mind that they let you "fail" on your first time out and didn't really offer any coaching or correction during the process. So, you have to ask yourself if that is the kind of firm you could really see yourself working for in the long term. They sat they are interested in your growth, but they aren't willing to invest time in mentoring you to really achieve that growth. If it were me, I would work hard and absorb everything I could over the next year and then start looking for my next firm or company.
you are fine, it was a week… the partner wont care, make sure you do a good job on your other projects thou
Best way to learn is by messing up. Keep your head up king
If you work for a good employer. It's probably just fine. If not, you will get hired again, I promise.
Trash leadership with trash clients - move on
First and foremost, this is the clients fault for not providing it to you the week you were scheduled. After that it’s just communicating it to your peers and not letting them take advantage of you.
Definately went about it all wrong, should of talked to the manager way back when and the client to set a time expectation, then you really need to be on them for the full time push it hard, once its seen as this isnt going to be complete (surely your time is booked based on a budget?), the audit should of been post poned until they can provide the necessary support OR staff be estimated on a more consistent basis i.e picking up a seniors time for 10 hours a week for the next 8 weeks). With that said a manager that gives up the reins to a almost not quite senior is the most absurd thing ive ever heard, did they not check in at all for weeks?