I've got a more positive take on this.
There was danger. The shopping centre, staff and police acted immediately. Sure, this wasn't a Bondi, but I feel better knowing that an armed nutter won't be allowed to jog around Westfield Marion killing people at will. Isn't that a good thing?
As for the teens involved, do I think they deserve serious consequences? Hell yeah. But keep it in perspective - this is not terrorism or a homicidal rampage. It's teen boys fighting. They've been doing that for a fair few thousand years.
'There were reports of knives', which we still don't know about yet. There were also reports of numchucks, so who the fuck knows. From what I've read so far it was kids fighting, with possible unknown weapons. The injuries to the public seem to be from the stampede of people thinking it was a bondi/terrorist type thing, understandably.
I'm impressed with the response from the police, but it's the media blowing this up. Still, not a great time to be pulling this kind of shit. Hats off the responders, fuck you media. Facts first.
I want these shit heads properly punished, it wasn't a simple blue between others out in a public area with fuck all people around. These dero shits took weapons into a crowded public space a shopping centre of all places, When fuck all time has passed when a nut job stabbed people. So when people could get out a stampede happened in places hence why 2 people ended in hospital.
Sadly They will probably get a piss weak sentence in the grand scheme of things and that will be the end of it and these shit cunts will carry on with their shit cuntery.
I am glad the police response was decent including the Star group coming out and also shops when into lock down and it seems CCTV is decent.
Would not surprise me if these two are known for police and this isn't their first time before a judge, knowing that judges are happy to send them out again.
The police very quickly identified 2 of them, quick enough for their response and the press conference so that to me screams the shitheads had done shit before.
I hope the judge actually gives them a proper punishment, sadly there always seems to be piss weak sentences so what incentive is there for deros to reform their behaviour?
It's like the recent teenager who was just given a diversion to attend counselling sessions for pushing an old man off a jetty while he was on bail for punching up a random 35 year old woman in the street.
That is fucked up.
I know you can't outright just chain people up or put them in the stocks and throw mouldy food and animal shit in a public square any more but I feel there has to be something better than these piss weak punishments.
A teenager granted hasn't had well enough life experience and all of us done dumb shit in our younger years but there is more than enough mental capacity and well enough ideas to hammer in the point that punching randoms in the face and pushing old people off jettys is a tad fucked up and wrong.
Teenagers are not babies or toddlers and I wish our court systems would stop treating them as such.
Oh theyâre always trying to decrease it lol they keep running out of soldiers.
But nope - tying thieves to public poles has been a thing with them for ages. Only rly got attention from human rightsâ groups, after photos of them doing it to little girls came out.
Yeah, I remember security guards always hovering around groups of teenagers back in the day and would boot them out fairly quickly. Then again a lot of security back in the day were fairly stocky built blokes overall so this would scare the shit out of most people except the the biggest smart arses and drop kicks.
A lot of people saying they want them punished, as if they wouldn't be, but I am curious what every person demanding punishment actually wants to happen, and why they never say it.
I personally want them to be tried as adults, I said in another reply that teenagers are not babies or toddlers so have enough comprehension of their actions and resulting consequences that will occur to others..
And I want decent sentencing, not absolutely useless shit like they have to see a shrink or sort clothes in a op shop or various other "community service". Dero Drop kicks are not going to give any fucks if they have some time allocated away from them doing menial tasks when they will just be disruptive or not bother to rock up.
Yeah teenagers are not babies or toddlers they are in fact teenagers (with still developing brains and more hormones than brainpower).
So you want 'decent sentencing', not community service... meaning you want teenagers to go into an adult prison for fighting with sticks in a shopping centre? I wonder how *long* 'decent sentencing' means!
I don't agree with you at all but I also think they will be getting 'punished' harder than you and others expect. And we will not know because they are minors.
Worth noting the legal eagles who have worked with young offenders across the globe have written plenty disagreeing with your perspective, lots of evidence shows harsh penalties on teenagers (especially when influenced by thinking they have more capacity than they actually do) makes them worse in adulthood.
I am curious what the harsh punishments actually are?
Also we have all been teenagers at some point and know the dumb shit ourselves and others got up to but holy shit a good portion of us learned early on that pulling the kind of shit they did in such a public space was a dick headed move and people like that are feral.
And I am well aware of prison the same applies with adults can often result in re offending behaviour because the TLDR is shit cunts are with other bored shit cunts and learn new skills or network with the scummiest of fucks.
But I think a key aspect to shits like this is to outright remove them from their social groups and influences. token talks with therapists, local community service still means they are back into the wild when they are back into their spare time.
One pulled out of my arse idea is throw them up to Station country, I know people from that way and in all honesty living up that way makes people hard workers very blunt and not deal with bullshit. Slap these shit heads to a station willing to deal with them, they are isolated, can't physically run away, have shit internet and they will do long days rustling up cattle, in a shearing shed etc and get out of line I can picture some people up there giving them a kick up the arse or even not that doing solid days work might fill these shits with a sense of purpose and put into perspective that those other mobs they scrapped with in the city is very trivial.
Exactly.
There were people armed with deadly weapons looking to cause harm. It could easily have escalated, so the authorities did what they are tasked to do.
And the outcome. Nobody else was hurt. I'm not usually a fan of the police, but in this case, well done to them.
We are fortunate that this didnât happen in the US given the ubiquitous nature of firearms in that country and idiots being idiots using guns can and does lead to collateral damage.
People and in particular young people are under some sort of delusion that carrying and using knives can hurt but not kill. Coming from an emergency services background knives do kill and it was reported that one or more of those dickheads involved in the Marion incident were armed with knives.
One stab can be enough to take the life of the injured party.
Our premier Peter M in a interview today kept repeating that yesterdayâs incident wasnât like Bondi Junction and thank goodness it wasnât. The people faced with the unfolding incident yesterday would have been terrified given the potential for harm.
By all accounts Westfieldâs security erred on the side of caution and issued the warning of an incident. If the threat was legitimate waiting a bit longer to clarify the threat if it was a Bondi Junction style incident could have cost lives.
SAPOL and Star Group did what they were trained to do. It must have been a surreal experience for those at Marion as itâs a rare in this country to have a shopping centre locked down and itâs also a unusual to see police officers carrying automatic assault rifles. Iâve only seen them at Parliament House and overseas but not downtown Marion Westfields!!!!
SAPOL are still trying to apprehend all of those involved in the affray and I hope the courtâs upon conviction sentence all concerned to appropriate punishment. I donât know what would be a just sentence in this instance but a message needs to be sent to the perpetrators and anyone else contemplating ever doing similar.
At the end of the day the individuals involved are well above the age of criminal responsibility and know right from wrong.
Then what penalty do you think they should get?
This was a planned action, normal people do not walk around carrying weapons on hand "Just in case" or for some random opportunity to use them. Punish them
I know it's really popular lately to posture being hard on crime but at least own it when that's your thing. Five years of [this](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-25/inside-look-at-the-adelaide-youth-detention/12474990) for what, running amok with some sticks? For all we know, the repeat offenders might already be going through the 'youth centre' process.
Do all the posters who happen to know nothing about the young offenders process also happen to disagree with the studies from vast swathes of people who have studied youth crime and concluded that adult-style punishment does not result in what you want or think it does?
Something tells me this discourse is not particularly informed.
Fun fact: Murder with knives is higher per capita in the US than the UK, but do you ever hear about how bad knife crime is in the US? Something to think about.
Why do people feel the need to keep repeating the myth about a knife being involved and why do people feel the need to defend them when they spread this deliberate misinformation? Itâs almost like the situation wasnât actually as scary as first thought and the lockdown was a bit of an embarrassing over reaction and now thereâs a need to create a more compelling narrative about the threat of knife crime to justify it all.
The most likely reason people keep mentioning knives is likely due to two reasons; yesterday a number of news sources did mention the youths involved had expandable batons and knives and the other reason is possibly people are associating the Westfields Marion with the murderous attack at Westfields Bondi Junction.
If there is a proliferation of âmisinformationâ itâs hard to change the narrative and that is why misinformation is potentially harmful.
Those things are no joke either, when I was a young teen I was with my family staying at my uncles house in Alice Springs who was an NT cop and he handed me his baton to check it out.
I jokingly whacked my brother on the leg with it with what I thought was a light force thinking I'd just give him a bit of a sting and he was rolling around on the floor in pain almost with tears in his eyes, thought he was faking it until I did the brotherly thing and let him do the same to me to make up for it. And holy FUCK it was painful, can't even imagine what it would be like from someone swinging it who meant business.
It's both a good and bad thing.
Good that there are processes in place and especially after their drill only a few days ago, it's great they're taking things seriously.
Bad because, was this an overreaction over a bunch of teens fighting in the food court?
Just happy it was nothing serious.
"Food court squabble" where several participants brought offensive weapons.
I'm not suggesting we shoot anyone but there is a little more premeditation going on here than a bit of schoolyard push and shove.
3 kids brought expendable batons, apparently a possibility of a knife but not 100% confirmed.
What the hell are you talking about "several participants" what the hell are they participating in?
You're just making up a bunch of shit and making no sense. It was a fight over an expensive jumper, it really was fuck all.
"offensive weapon" includes a rifle, gun, pistol, knife, sword, club, *bludgeon, truncheon* or other offensive or lethal weapon or instrument
But extendable batons are actually classified as "prohibited weapons" which are more serious again.
Multiple people carrying offensive or prohibited weapons is not fuck all
You said several participants.
You are making absolute nonsense up, you're being extremely over the top and fabricating a bullshit story.
This sort of shit happens all the time and has for many years, this was some kids getting into a 3vs3 at a local shopping centre.
As a teen I didn't being weapons to squabbles.
We yelled insults and flipped the bird, and maybe a few fists were thrown.
We didn't roam around with weapons looking for trouble.
Need some sort of reeducation. The mindset of one to bring weapons is that of gangs. Even if it was only to harm another gang of youths thereâs no normal point. Itâs probably only something as lame as we donât like each other. Gang mentality has no place here. Send them out on that Yorkes camp where they need to get up and run 10km every morning. Help local farmers and other things to become men.  Reeducation and a form of discipline most of all to get that fâd up entitled gang mentality style of thinking changed.  Clearly their parents arenât  being the role models required for them though that too can be hard and some kids just rebel regardless.Â
We've been imprisoning adults and juveniles for centuries now across the world. We have enough studies to show that unless there are adequate support mechanisms throughout their sentence and even afterwards, they're very likely to reoffend.
This is nothing new. Youth crime is going on all over the country and as a developed country, we should be embarrassed.
What we absolutely need to do now is double down on youth education and social support systems. Many teens are acting out because they aren't getting the leadership/ mentorship at home or at school.
Reoffend - maybe - but the flip side is that they are also removed from the greater population that does want to just get on with day to day life.
Not all can be fixed with hugs and talks ...
Sure, but removing repeat offenders or those not interested in reforming, from the greater society and doing what is best for the community overall should and needs to take precedence.
I think being tough in crime AND trying to help kids out with social support systems is important.
If many young boys are not getting the support they need, we shouldn't be surprised they're acting out. This is the consequence of inaction.
Likewise youth also need to learn about consequences of actions.
Yes support should be there when needed, but also re-offending at some point also means there is no willingness to change.
>We have enough studies to show that unless there are adequate support mechanisms throughout their sentence and even afterwards, they're very likely to reoffend.
The alternative is very long sentences for violent crimes and repeat offenders. We've never actually been tough on crime in the last, what, 80 years? 100 years? 70 years?
Genuinely, if someone has committed three violent crimes, or even, say, 10 crimes ... I honestly want them to go to jail for years. Then every time they commit another crime, more years. I'm not talking 2 years. I'm talking throw the book. I hand on heart think this would reduce crime. Starting building a state-of-the-art, best in class prison now, but make it big.
>Youth crime is going on all over the country and as a developed country, we should be embarrassed.
What a mentality. The youth committing violent crime to steal clothing should be embarrassed, not me.
>What we absolutely need to do now is double down on youth education and social support systems.
Haven't we tried being soft on crime enough? That's not working.
>Many teens are acting out because they aren't getting the leadership/ mentorship at home or at school.
That sounds like a shit reason. Oh well, let's build a world class prison and provide leadership and mentors hip inside.
They were carrying extendable batons which are illegal weapons. Attacking someone with a weapon is aggravated assault. Not a squabble between children, they were youths
You do realise that some of the trauma experienced by the families, kids, elderly and others who were there, will live with them forever right?
They weren't running from a couple of kids, in their mind, they were running from a potential mass shooter, mass stabbing event where they or their loved ones could have been the victim.
Hence, the people involved, who came armed, need to made an example of in the most harshest possible way.
I do realise the potentially traumatic implications, of course.
However they weren't running from a mass shooter, and in fact, the presence of a knife is even still to be confirmed. SAPOL has confirmed there were two batons and the conflict was clearly between teenagers. I think the police response was quick and effective considering the information they had available.
The injuries that did occur, took place in the chaos of the evacuation, which many witnesses have confirmed the alerts, information and instructions were unclear, so of course there was fear and panic!
I'm not saying these lads shouldn't face consequences. They have been charged with assault, affray and aggravated robbery, which are serious offences. They will face serious consequences. Considering the public outcry the courts will likely push for the highest penalties available on those charges.
All I'm saying is that people in this thread seem way too keen imprison these teenagers for life, or even shoot them?! Like, jesus christ. I understand the situation was terrifying for those there and their loved ones, but y'all really talking about capital punishment for kids who's brains haven't even developed yet.
What about interventions? Or rehabilitation programs? You don't want justice, you want revenge.
Shame.
I'm a little older, but as a teenager, I remember one friend with over 300 charges still going out and stealing cars every night, cause he operated on the fact that at 18, his record would get sealed (not sure if this is still the case) and the fact judges would do nothing other than require rehabilitation programs even when he was caught.
In terms of those rehabilitation programs, all that did was give him his first connections to real criminals and a network to hook into where he could really blossom within the underworld.
Additionally, you only need to look back at some more recent high profile crimes involving teenagers to see most were on bail at the time, so this "soft" approach to re-offenders isn't working like it's intended.
Justice these days is caring more about the people committing the crimes than the victims... and tbh, if these kids have to go down to send a message, so be it.
They choose to go armed into a public place with the intent to harm, injure or kill others. Now it's time to pay the price for that.
Respectfully, sounds like your old friend was a Habitual Offender, who was going to repeat offend regardless of any consequences. Of course there's the potential to make criminal connections in those rehabilitation programs, but no more than being locked away...
In regards to the sealing of records, this info is from the Youth Law Australia .org site :
"If you receive a conviction when you are under 18 years old, and you are not dealt with as an adult, then this conviction will be spent after 5 years of you not being in any more trouble within any Australian State or Territory. Any conviction as an adult is spent after 10 years...
...Some convictions are never spent and will remain on your criminal record...
...Some occupations will look at all of your convictions including those that have been spent."
They'll go to court, they'll face consequences, so they should. I never said they shouldn't pay a price, I just don't think that price should be their lives. Call me crazy.
Itâs because a few shoppers in the mall called 000 saying there were offenders with firearms, just not knowing what they were seeing with the hysteria going on.
Media always likes to report ASAP but it goes to show you why reporting like that is so dangerous.
So in SA prohibited weapons like expendable batons carry a 2 year detention sentence and a 20k fine. Something tells me the sentence these people receive won't be anything like that. Probably a diversion and good behaviour bond. And we wonder why youth crime is exploding.
Funny, that's what the Queensland Police commissioner said 3 years ago, the nsw police coming 2 years ago, and the Victorian police commissioner 18 months ago. The NT commissioner was sacked because he refused to acknowledge it.The problem with police today is that they are no longer a service organisation. They are very much a party political extension. COVID saw to that.
Lol they'd be out in a few hours and do the same shit all over again. Unless you give them life changing harsher punishment this will keep happening. Australia never learns.
It's not like what they are doing is juvenile. Adult crime, adult time. Lock them up.
Think about how scary that would be for so many parents and children. Some could be scared for a long time.
I was working in the centre when it happened and it was terrifying. We didn't know anything was going down until we saw swarms of people running past our store (there'd been an alert over the centre's speakers but it doesnt broadcast in the stores and the audio quality is terrible so we couldnt hear it over our store's music/people talking). People were shouting that someone had a gun. I had my co-workers and nearly all the customers in our store in our backroom and was about to lock us in, but a security guard screamed at us to leave the centre, so we ran outside (our store's right across from the doors). The alarms then didn't go off until we were standing outside. We waited in the cold for hours, first hearing that there were men with machetes in David Jones, and then a knife fight in the food court. No one told us anything and we had to update ourselves from the news. The whole thing was a mess. My co-workers and I were really shaken up, we thought we could've died. It was actually a relief to learn it was just eshays fighting, and not some targeted attack.Â
Plus their actions caused injuries to two people - a girl and an elderly woman. Falls for older people can be so serious. Little shits have zero respect and should be treated like adults. Fuck around and find out
Theyâre under 18, they didnât actually assault anyone. What kind of jail term were you hoping for mate? I should we just put them in public stocks and take turns flogging them?
They actually did hurt the people they chased. Iâm not sure why the news is not reporting it. One girl was smacked over the head with a baton and was knocked unconscious.
Personally, I havenât seen that in any of the news reports; care to share your source? The only thing I have read says it was a group of underage white boys chasing another group of underage white boys.
So what just let them out so they can keep doing this until they actually use the weapons and then charge them? it doesn't matter that they didn't assult anyone this time they were still carrying weapons and that is illegal.
No one is saying to lock them up for life but they should not just be let out because they are under 18 and didn't really hurt anyone they still broke the law and need punishment. Carry offensive weapon, Maximum Penalty (Fine/Imprisonment), $2 500 / 6 months. They should get 6 months for it.
Should we just be letting kids run around with weapons threating people? should we just let anyone under 18 do whatever they want if they don't hurt anyone?
Itâs hard to speculate on a potential punishment when we still know almost nothing about the incident and havenât heard any of the evidence. But six months jail is still more reasonable than donât âlet them outâ or the death sentence some people on this sub are suggesting.
I have an issue with the repeated use of the term âboysâ. So are these boys still boys until the last minute they are aged 17 before turning 18 and then they morph instantly into men.
They are above the age of criminal responsibility and things could have been worse.
Sure we should recognise that the male brain doesnât maturate until the age of 25 but these so called boys do know the difference between and wrong and need to be held accountable for their actions.
Itâs only judged as an overreaction after the fact. If it was Bondi 2, thereâd be nothing but praise. Still, good to review and refine for ânext timeâ but given the belief there was a knife and the recency and rarity of the Bondi situation, I think it was reasonable. I just hope the two people injured recover quickly and whatever lead to their injuries is addressed for future responses.
yet they brought extendable batons and knives into a very public place, so no i will not calm the fuck down until something is done about this bullshit. people like you are why it continues. hopefully youâre caught up in the next one, maybe theyâll have machetes or guns, maybe youâll want them to do something then
The poster above isn't saying they shouldn't have some punishment. But charging kids as adults? What do you think that achieves? Put them in jail for 5 years. Derail their lives even more? They come out of jail in 5 years and then what? Now they have a jail record, can't get jobs. Devolves even further. Become desperate people, desperate people do desperate things? Next time instead of batons, it's much worse.
Kids are like this due to system failures their whole lives. 15 year olds don't become violent morons because they've lived happy, educated, loving lives. They go this way because the world keeps shitting on them over and over, and you want to add to that shit pile? Want to throw their live sin the bin because of a dumb mistake. Should we throw your life in the bin when you make a mistake?
They're kids. That made dumb moronic decisions. Do they need punishment, sure. They sure as shit need support more though, before they become 25 year olds that do even more damage next time. Unless you think having a baton means lock em up, and throw the key away forever? Why not just execute them whilst we're at it?
Or are you one of those people that thinks punishment is the only means of fixing behaviour? If so. maybe put some effort into understanding it.
Honestly, what exactly is your goal?
I know. Your question didnât seem relevant to the discussion, since no knife was involved. Thatâs why I ignored your question, the same way you ignored this fact.
It doesn't matter what was involved or not, you've claimed since no assault actually occurred it should be fine. So if I do it with a knife and don't actually hurt anyone is it fine? Doesn't really matter what the prohibited weapon is, unless you think it is fine to chase someone with some prohibited weapons but not others.
It's not rhetorical at all I am questioning the poster on his assertion that since no one was actually assaulted there should be no issue in it happening.
Do you think it is fine for people to run around with prohibited weapons?
They never said there was "no issue" and we should "ignore them" they were merely pointing out that there is a difference between carrying a prohibited item and actual physical assault.
I was there in the movies. The alert was hard to hear but something about hide. The movie didn't stop and no-one flinched after a few more times and the last one saying they're in David Jones run, hide and call 000. We all started heading to the door lights still off movie still going. (I had never heard an emergency alert like that before she sounded scared and had mentioned them being armed). We came out, my eyes playing tricks on me saw smoke lol. Bombs crossed my mind. Heard someone scream and people running. Running through the exit, I was scared for our lives, on to the roof top, hiding like we had been told? Seriously thinking that they were on they're way to us, these armed offenders, an would pop through that door any minute an start mass shooting. The alert wasn't clear, the signs were a bit silly. If I knew it was a couple of teenagers fighting each other an then probably heading straight out of Marion I wouldn't have feared for my life obviously. Children were crying. People were scared. An to tell everyone over the speaker and those signs to call 000 is rediculous. Good they've had a really good practice though. An hopefully they will fix the type of alerts they have to create a little bit more clarity in the future. An recognised where they can do better in a serious situation. The police and Marion Westfield. As for me I will be checking out all the exits.
The only issue I have is the lack of transparency with what was happening. People had family and friends locked inside Marion thinking there was some
Sort of terrorist action and not knowing anything about the situation until at least 1.5 hours later. It then becomes evident in the police press conference that they knew it was kids fighting at 3:30pm when they were called to the scene? Why not let people know? My mate genuinely thought his mum was in severe danger. How about a news flash or post on the police website that says something along the lines of âhey donât stress everyone, there are no gunmen or terror acts happening it was an altercation between some kids including weapons.â With the access we have to information these days itâs wild to me it took so long for the public to find out there was no genuine threat
Firstly, the police were called at 2:52, and had conflicting reports.
Secondly, It wasn't until they viewed the CCTV footage after they arrived at the scene until they were pretty confident what was going on.
Thirdly, they had reports of multiple knives at marion... the risk of saying, hey guys, you can come out of hiding now was higher than necessary. What if the boys tried to take hostages to escape, for example? Also, people being locked in shops made it easier to search Marion for the boys in case they were hiding.
Fourthly, there were some (stupid) reports of a gun being involved. Just because they didn't see it on cctv, doesn't mean that they could be certain there wasn't one that was brandished at part of the precinct.
It wad chaotic, and they took a risk averse approach.
I had absolutely no issue with the police response. In fact when I saw them arrive I was relieved, and able to see that there was finally someone there that I could trust.
The issue was the way it was handled by Westfield staff and other employees.
It was obvious that after the Bondi event Westfield have done absolutely nothing to mitigate any risk. It was an absolute shitshow.
I can only speak to my experience, no one else's, but it could not have been handled any worse from my point of view.
We watched the video footage online of the chaos of people trying to escape in front of the Lego store, and at that moment we were metres away at the top of the stairs and had absolutely no clue it was happening.
Some time later we were forced to leave the store and go out into the mall, only to see the entire place was empty and every other store was closed with their doors locked.
At the time everyone thought there was an armed offender, and we got forced to go into the area where people thought this person was, rather than stay in the store and close the doors.
The fact that anyone would think the best thing to do is force people to leave the store shows how little Westfield have learned from previous events.
Ah ok fair enough. I would assume store staff would only be following orders from centre management/wardens. Generally store staff wouldnât have any more intel than the customers in this situation, it would be Westfield thatâs responsible for putting you in a scary situation there. Totally sucks though, hopefully theyâve learned a lot from the event.
The store employee ran out screaming and panicking telling everyone to get out. We were then met by a Westfield employee who was doing the same, and 2 or 3 other Westfield employees just standing there with blank looks on their faces. It was blatantly obvious absolutely no one knew what to. Regardless of what was actually happening downstairs it was clear that no one had received any training either way.
I don't blame any human for reacting in that situation, but I do blame Westfield for not preparing their workforce, by either training, employing people with the correct personality traits, or providing the correct resources, to respond to a situation that occured in one of their facilities only months ago. It just wasn't good enough.
Yeah absolutely, that sounds terrible. Centre management staff should be comprehensively trained and able to carry out that training calmly and correctly in the situation.
Store staff I think itâs different, but maybe it shouldnât be in future. Iâve managed many stores in Westfield centres - both Marion and in Melbourne, and generally only the store manager attends training for these scenarios and is expected to convey that training to the team/is given posters with it all on there. Not many store managers work on Sundays, and they definitely arenât there at all opening hours of every day of the week so thereâs clearly a gap in emergency management training there that should be closed and really should have after Bondi..
They ran straight out and weren't caught, how were police to know what actually happened or if they were still inside a shop?
People commenting they have knives and guns etc make it harder to determine what actually happened.
So you wouldnât want more transparency from media and police when your loved ones are in the same situation? Just sit and wait for an hour and a half thinking thereâs a gunman on the loose while your mum, dad, daughter or son are locked away in there? Multiple media sources stated âgunmanâ and âweaponâ. In the press conference they said âwe were made aware of an altercation between young boys at 3:30pm - why not let people know thatâs the case instead of letting the internet run wild with false information and make people think their loved ones are at serious risk?? The media and police jump on things within seconds in any other scenario but when thereâs genuine risk and worry where the hell are they??? Not to mention thereâs CCTV surely it doesnât take one and a half hours to review the cctv of the exact moment to find out whatâs happened. Just let people know whatâs going on, not hard
I think you're missing the point. How can you be transparent as to what's happening when you don't have the information...
Have to take the worst case scenario approach.
And?
The best thing to do in situations like this is get the FACTS right.
The media have a problem with the facts, so its up to the responders to make sure that this is correct. There is no point going to do a press conference when all you can say is "I have no idea".
Exactly. If they did the press conference and said what they knew early on it would have been something like "we've seen two groups of teenagers fighting and some had extendable batons, but there's also been reports or knives and guns and they could be anywhere in the shopping centre so we need to investigate the area thoroughly", so it ends up back at square one and the same thing happens.
Silly question, I wouldnât have âdoneâ anything, but I would feel a hell of a lot better about the situation my friends and family were in. People honestly thought their loved ones were in serious immediate danger, which was not the case. Imagine trying to explain to your 6 year old daughter whatâs happening to her mum without having any information on the situation.
Correct. Anyone justifying the police response do not grasp how incompetent it was nor the panic it created. Police public response to these situations in other cities are a lot more informative and responsive and do their best to disarm panic. Those who only are praising SAPOL, get a grip.Â
People saying it was an overreaction, what if it wasnât? What if someone was harmed or worse, killed? If they didnât mass evacuate then people would be screaming nothing more was done & it would be all over the news.
They did the right thing, played it safe, weâre all better off for it.
That was after 9/11 I suspect. I remember our governments response around bags that could be filled with explosives and left anywhere.
I remember one friend suggested we rename our band âUnattended Bagsâ
Remember how we would bitch and moan and talk about discrimination and how terrible it was? Well we grew up and changed the rules, now security can't just ban them or move them on.
> For all we know the parents might not give a care about any of this.
I think thats the point OC was making. The parents don't need to care as the juvi wont even be named and thus they wont be named / shamed either. No incentive to care in that. Problem that OC overlooked is the assumption these kids have parents at all. Lots of kids in care homes near there. The care homes cant do anything to restrain the kids, they just call the cops when they leave without permission and the kids call the cops for a free ride back when they are ready.
When it comes to really bad kids.. there is enough in SA that I wouldnât bet my life they have parents thatâs for sure. 730 children in residential care as of April 2024. 4854 kids in total if you include foster kids, kids placed with families etc. I 100% agree it could be just as likely they have families that love them but we should not forget thereâs a pretty good chance they didnât. I bet if you looked at the number of kids going to juvi they would be over represented by kids who are in some kinda care. They might not be the majority even but they would be over represented.
Definitely the numbers of kids who are living in ah out of home care situation is huge.
4854 children whoâs parents are no longer looking after their offspring. You mentioned foster care children and they are included in the numbers of out of home care. Kin care and children living with family members are technically also living in an out of home care situation.
There are startling statistics around criminality, poor mental health, substance abuse and poor education outcomes that is associated with out of home care. Lastly there is a very high incidence of sexual abuse if one is living in an out of home care situation.
All of the above factors increase the likelihood of aberrant and antisocial behaviours. That is not the parents fault and the behaviour is symptomatic of systemic problems.
It was amusing to see the completely different reporting styles of The Advertiser and ABC news online and even Channel 7 (showing blurry photos of the alleged crime scene). The Advertiser put their story behind a paywall with sensationalist crap. Where the ABC News online basically said there was an incident at the Marion Shopping Centre and a journalist is investigating.
I heard this morning some staff are too scared to return to the centre and Iâm wondering if they were offered counseling. Even though they werenât at risk, the fear and trauma for some is real.
Youth crime seems insane at the moment, and they are getting more violent and dangerous as well. We need new laws. As soon as weapons or a risk to the general public is involved, they should be in jail, and their parents should be charged too.
Maybe this kind of incident will start to encourage some law changes. Shutting down the biggest shopping center in the state seems like it will draw some attention. The economic cost would be huge and the loss of profit from the shopping center and businesses will be significant, as well as ongoing losses as no doubt many people will be reluctant to head back there anytime soon. (And this will likely expand to shopping centers in general)
This has been going on for years, YEARS. Last year, at Marion shopping centre, car park next to TGIF, about 8 kids in their teens fighting around 5pm on a Saturday afternoon. Big group. Security nowhere, people walking by just watching or not doing anything. I walked up and started yelling at them to stop the crap - about a few minutes later they stopped coz they saw a security guard nearby. It broke up and they scattered. Seen this happen once or twice a year now in varying places. So I ask - what was different this time? The nutter with the knife. That's all. Had that not happened recently - NOTHING would have been different.
There is literally people yellng out guns as the indicent starts. Misinformation spreads and so does fear. No one knows what is happening other than distant banging and yelling. Fuck these dumbass ruining peaceful neighbourhood and family friendly day
Why is everyone calling it a violent altercation? If you see the footage it was teenagers chasing each other. There was no violent physical altercation involved. Yes there were weapons involved but that doesnât mean violence occurred.
Edit: Why the downvotes? Show me footage where there was a âbrawlâ or violent altercation?
Didn't y'all forget the ole times as a teenager when you played chasey with your mates while wielding a knife and sending a shopping centre into a lock lockdown? /s
Did I miss the part where it was confirmed a knife was involved? The police were very careful when they said two extendable batons were used and only âreportsâ of a knife but I donât recall any confirmation a knife was involved. Lots of people perpetuating the mistruth though.
I've got a more positive take on this. There was danger. The shopping centre, staff and police acted immediately. Sure, this wasn't a Bondi, but I feel better knowing that an armed nutter won't be allowed to jog around Westfield Marion killing people at will. Isn't that a good thing? As for the teens involved, do I think they deserve serious consequences? Hell yeah. But keep it in perspective - this is not terrorism or a homicidal rampage. It's teen boys fighting. They've been doing that for a fair few thousand years.
I agree with almost everything you said. However, fighting is one thing, bringing batons and knives is far more serious and should be treated as such.
Exactly, there was premeditation at least as far as carrying weapons and that is not something we want in our culture
'There were reports of knives', which we still don't know about yet. There were also reports of numchucks, so who the fuck knows. From what I've read so far it was kids fighting, with possible unknown weapons. The injuries to the public seem to be from the stampede of people thinking it was a bondi/terrorist type thing, understandably. I'm impressed with the response from the police, but it's the media blowing this up. Still, not a great time to be pulling this kind of shit. Hats off the responders, fuck you media. Facts first.
Have you ever been to Alice Springs? well obviously not with that comment
Yes I have. I worked there for several years.
I want these shit heads properly punished, it wasn't a simple blue between others out in a public area with fuck all people around. These dero shits took weapons into a crowded public space a shopping centre of all places, When fuck all time has passed when a nut job stabbed people. So when people could get out a stampede happened in places hence why 2 people ended in hospital. Sadly They will probably get a piss weak sentence in the grand scheme of things and that will be the end of it and these shit cunts will carry on with their shit cuntery. I am glad the police response was decent including the Star group coming out and also shops when into lock down and it seems CCTV is decent.
Would not surprise me if these two are known for police and this isn't their first time before a judge, knowing that judges are happy to send them out again.
The police very quickly identified 2 of them, quick enough for their response and the press conference so that to me screams the shitheads had done shit before. I hope the judge actually gives them a proper punishment, sadly there always seems to be piss weak sentences so what incentive is there for deros to reform their behaviour?
It's like the recent teenager who was just given a diversion to attend counselling sessions for pushing an old man off a jetty while he was on bail for punching up a random 35 year old woman in the street.
That is fucked up. I know you can't outright just chain people up or put them in the stocks and throw mouldy food and animal shit in a public square any more but I feel there has to be something better than these piss weak punishments. A teenager granted hasn't had well enough life experience and all of us done dumb shit in our younger years but there is more than enough mental capacity and well enough ideas to hammer in the point that punching randoms in the face and pushing old people off jettys is a tad fucked up and wrong. Teenagers are not babies or toddlers and I wish our court systems would stop treating them as such.
They do in Ukraine! đ
They probably send them to the front lines now, I can't remember what the age cut off is for the army there?
Forgot to mention: they also either pull their pants down, insult them or beat them with sticks. But thatâs Eastern Europe, yoâŚ
Considering what that part of the world has been through I can see why they don't fuck around.
Oh theyâre always trying to decrease it lol they keep running out of soldiers. But nope - tying thieves to public poles has been a thing with them for ages. Only rly got attention from human rightsâ groups, after photos of them doing it to little girls came out.
Cutla dumb kids doing dumb shit. Back in my day we wouldâve been given a flogging by a security guard and told we were banned.
Yeah, I remember security guards always hovering around groups of teenagers back in the day and would boot them out fairly quickly. Then again a lot of security back in the day were fairly stocky built blokes overall so this would scare the shit out of most people except the the biggest smart arses and drop kicks.
A lot of people saying they want them punished, as if they wouldn't be, but I am curious what every person demanding punishment actually wants to happen, and why they never say it.
I personally want them to be tried as adults, I said in another reply that teenagers are not babies or toddlers so have enough comprehension of their actions and resulting consequences that will occur to others.. And I want decent sentencing, not absolutely useless shit like they have to see a shrink or sort clothes in a op shop or various other "community service". Dero Drop kicks are not going to give any fucks if they have some time allocated away from them doing menial tasks when they will just be disruptive or not bother to rock up.
Yeah teenagers are not babies or toddlers they are in fact teenagers (with still developing brains and more hormones than brainpower). So you want 'decent sentencing', not community service... meaning you want teenagers to go into an adult prison for fighting with sticks in a shopping centre? I wonder how *long* 'decent sentencing' means! I don't agree with you at all but I also think they will be getting 'punished' harder than you and others expect. And we will not know because they are minors. Worth noting the legal eagles who have worked with young offenders across the globe have written plenty disagreeing with your perspective, lots of evidence shows harsh penalties on teenagers (especially when influenced by thinking they have more capacity than they actually do) makes them worse in adulthood.
I am curious what the harsh punishments actually are? Also we have all been teenagers at some point and know the dumb shit ourselves and others got up to but holy shit a good portion of us learned early on that pulling the kind of shit they did in such a public space was a dick headed move and people like that are feral. And I am well aware of prison the same applies with adults can often result in re offending behaviour because the TLDR is shit cunts are with other bored shit cunts and learn new skills or network with the scummiest of fucks. But I think a key aspect to shits like this is to outright remove them from their social groups and influences. token talks with therapists, local community service still means they are back into the wild when they are back into their spare time. One pulled out of my arse idea is throw them up to Station country, I know people from that way and in all honesty living up that way makes people hard workers very blunt and not deal with bullshit. Slap these shit heads to a station willing to deal with them, they are isolated, can't physically run away, have shit internet and they will do long days rustling up cattle, in a shearing shed etc and get out of line I can picture some people up there giving them a kick up the arse or even not that doing solid days work might fill these shits with a sense of purpose and put into perspective that those other mobs they scrapped with in the city is very trivial.
The Bondi guy was stopped pretty quickly too. Doesn't take long to cause damage in a surprise attack.
he stabbed and killed 6 people, a baby and injured 12 others. Is he The Flash?
the baby survived!!
Exactly. There were people armed with deadly weapons looking to cause harm. It could easily have escalated, so the authorities did what they are tasked to do. And the outcome. Nobody else was hurt. I'm not usually a fan of the police, but in this case, well done to them.
After talking to my sister in Darwin, this was a pillow fight.
Used to live in Alice Springs and couldnât agree more lol
We are fortunate that this didnât happen in the US given the ubiquitous nature of firearms in that country and idiots being idiots using guns can and does lead to collateral damage. People and in particular young people are under some sort of delusion that carrying and using knives can hurt but not kill. Coming from an emergency services background knives do kill and it was reported that one or more of those dickheads involved in the Marion incident were armed with knives. One stab can be enough to take the life of the injured party. Our premier Peter M in a interview today kept repeating that yesterdayâs incident wasnât like Bondi Junction and thank goodness it wasnât. The people faced with the unfolding incident yesterday would have been terrified given the potential for harm. By all accounts Westfieldâs security erred on the side of caution and issued the warning of an incident. If the threat was legitimate waiting a bit longer to clarify the threat if it was a Bondi Junction style incident could have cost lives. SAPOL and Star Group did what they were trained to do. It must have been a surreal experience for those at Marion as itâs a rare in this country to have a shopping centre locked down and itâs also a unusual to see police officers carrying automatic assault rifles. Iâve only seen them at Parliament House and overseas but not downtown Marion Westfields!!!! SAPOL are still trying to apprehend all of those involved in the affray and I hope the courtâs upon conviction sentence all concerned to appropriate punishment. I donât know what would be a just sentence in this instance but a message needs to be sent to the perpetrators and anyone else contemplating ever doing similar. At the end of the day the individuals involved are well above the age of criminal responsibility and know right from wrong.
Then what penalty do you think they should get? This was a planned action, normal people do not walk around carrying weapons on hand "Just in case" or for some random opportunity to use them. Punish them
What penalty do YOU think they should get? YOU are saying punish them!
A little bit more than home detention
Can't you folks be specific when you want to talk about how you want to punish minors please
Ok maybe a custodial sentence like 5 years in a detention facility.
I see why you did not want to be specific. Nuts!
How is that nuts?
I know it's really popular lately to posture being hard on crime but at least own it when that's your thing. Five years of [this](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-25/inside-look-at-the-adelaide-youth-detention/12474990) for what, running amok with some sticks? For all we know, the repeat offenders might already be going through the 'youth centre' process. Do all the posters who happen to know nothing about the young offenders process also happen to disagree with the studies from vast swathes of people who have studied youth crime and concluded that adult-style punishment does not result in what you want or think it does? Something tells me this discourse is not particularly informed.
Your bleeding heart piss weak idea of âpunishmentâ is why youth violence and crime gang is out of hand.
They deserve jail time. There's a difference between teen boys, and violent teen boys. Not all boys are violent.
Knife crime needs to be stopped before we end up like the UK. Give them 10 years jail, and if refugees, then deport them
Fun fact: Murder with knives is higher per capita in the US than the UK, but do you ever hear about how bad knife crime is in the US? Something to think about.
No confirmation there was even a knife involved. Cutla dumb kids with sticks who didnât actually hurt anyone.
Extendable batons are not sticks, they are illegal weapons.
But definitely not knives, understood
Carrying both knives and batons is illegal, both can be used to cause serious injury. The absence of knives doesn't diminish the danger.
Why do people feel the need to keep repeating the myth about a knife being involved and why do people feel the need to defend them when they spread this deliberate misinformation? Itâs almost like the situation wasnât actually as scary as first thought and the lockdown was a bit of an embarrassing over reaction and now thereâs a need to create a more compelling narrative about the threat of knife crime to justify it all.
The most likely reason people keep mentioning knives is likely due to two reasons; yesterday a number of news sources did mention the youths involved had expandable batons and knives and the other reason is possibly people are associating the Westfields Marion with the murderous attack at Westfields Bondi Junction. If there is a proliferation of âmisinformationâ itâs hard to change the narrative and that is why misinformation is potentially harmful.
Those things are no joke either, when I was a young teen I was with my family staying at my uncles house in Alice Springs who was an NT cop and he handed me his baton to check it out. I jokingly whacked my brother on the leg with it with what I thought was a light force thinking I'd just give him a bit of a sting and he was rolling around on the floor in pain almost with tears in his eyes, thought he was faking it until I did the brotherly thing and let him do the same to me to make up for it. And holy FUCK it was painful, can't even imagine what it would be like from someone swinging it who meant business.
It's both a good and bad thing. Good that there are processes in place and especially after their drill only a few days ago, it's great they're taking things seriously. Bad because, was this an overreaction over a bunch of teens fighting in the food court? Just happy it was nothing serious.
Overreaction ? they came with weapons ... this is not just a scrap between 2 larrikins...
THANK YOU! People in this thread really suggesting we imprison or shoot children for a food court squabble...
"Food court squabble" where several participants brought offensive weapons. I'm not suggesting we shoot anyone but there is a little more premeditation going on here than a bit of schoolyard push and shove.
3 kids brought expendable batons, apparently a possibility of a knife but not 100% confirmed. What the hell are you talking about "several participants" what the hell are they participating in? You're just making up a bunch of shit and making no sense. It was a fight over an expensive jumper, it really was fuck all.
"offensive weapon" includes a rifle, gun, pistol, knife, sword, club, *bludgeon, truncheon* or other offensive or lethal weapon or instrument But extendable batons are actually classified as "prohibited weapons" which are more serious again. Multiple people carrying offensive or prohibited weapons is not fuck all
You said several participants. You are making absolute nonsense up, you're being extremely over the top and fabricating a bullshit story. This sort of shit happens all the time and has for many years, this was some kids getting into a 3vs3 at a local shopping centre.
3 = several The batons are illegal weapons It's not that complicated
As a teen I didn't being weapons to squabbles. We yelled insults and flipped the bird, and maybe a few fists were thrown. We didn't roam around with weapons looking for trouble.
I want them imprisoned.
Need some sort of reeducation. The mindset of one to bring weapons is that of gangs. Even if it was only to harm another gang of youths thereâs no normal point. Itâs probably only something as lame as we donât like each other. Gang mentality has no place here. Send them out on that Yorkes camp where they need to get up and run 10km every morning. Help local farmers and other things to become men.  Reeducation and a form of discipline most of all to get that fâd up entitled gang mentality style of thinking changed.  Clearly their parents arenât  being the role models required for them though that too can be hard and some kids just rebel regardless.Â
We've been imprisoning adults and juveniles for centuries now across the world. We have enough studies to show that unless there are adequate support mechanisms throughout their sentence and even afterwards, they're very likely to reoffend. This is nothing new. Youth crime is going on all over the country and as a developed country, we should be embarrassed. What we absolutely need to do now is double down on youth education and social support systems. Many teens are acting out because they aren't getting the leadership/ mentorship at home or at school.
Reoffend - maybe - but the flip side is that they are also removed from the greater population that does want to just get on with day to day life. Not all can be fixed with hugs and talks ...
Not all can be fixed with violence and cruelty either.
Sure, but removing repeat offenders or those not interested in reforming, from the greater society and doing what is best for the community overall should and needs to take precedence.
I think if we did that with every juvenile f-up⌠weâll be fast tracking to [this](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx777w9vgv9o)?
I did say repeat offenders - those that are not going to reform. You want to just keep letting them out knowing they will do the same over and over ?
I think being tough in crime AND trying to help kids out with social support systems is important. If many young boys are not getting the support they need, we shouldn't be surprised they're acting out. This is the consequence of inaction.
Likewise youth also need to learn about consequences of actions. Yes support should be there when needed, but also re-offending at some point also means there is no willingness to change.
Agreed.
They reoffend when immediately released and given corrective orders which require attending these support services, clearly that isn't working either.
>We have enough studies to show that unless there are adequate support mechanisms throughout their sentence and even afterwards, they're very likely to reoffend. The alternative is very long sentences for violent crimes and repeat offenders. We've never actually been tough on crime in the last, what, 80 years? 100 years? 70 years? Genuinely, if someone has committed three violent crimes, or even, say, 10 crimes ... I honestly want them to go to jail for years. Then every time they commit another crime, more years. I'm not talking 2 years. I'm talking throw the book. I hand on heart think this would reduce crime. Starting building a state-of-the-art, best in class prison now, but make it big. >Youth crime is going on all over the country and as a developed country, we should be embarrassed. What a mentality. The youth committing violent crime to steal clothing should be embarrassed, not me. >What we absolutely need to do now is double down on youth education and social support systems. Haven't we tried being soft on crime enough? That's not working. >Many teens are acting out because they aren't getting the leadership/ mentorship at home or at school. That sounds like a shit reason. Oh well, let's build a world class prison and provide leadership and mentors hip inside.
I still want them imprisoned.
They were carrying extendable batons which are illegal weapons. Attacking someone with a weapon is aggravated assault. Not a squabble between children, they were youths
You do realise that some of the trauma experienced by the families, kids, elderly and others who were there, will live with them forever right? They weren't running from a couple of kids, in their mind, they were running from a potential mass shooter, mass stabbing event where they or their loved ones could have been the victim. Hence, the people involved, who came armed, need to made an example of in the most harshest possible way.
I do realise the potentially traumatic implications, of course. However they weren't running from a mass shooter, and in fact, the presence of a knife is even still to be confirmed. SAPOL has confirmed there were two batons and the conflict was clearly between teenagers. I think the police response was quick and effective considering the information they had available. The injuries that did occur, took place in the chaos of the evacuation, which many witnesses have confirmed the alerts, information and instructions were unclear, so of course there was fear and panic! I'm not saying these lads shouldn't face consequences. They have been charged with assault, affray and aggravated robbery, which are serious offences. They will face serious consequences. Considering the public outcry the courts will likely push for the highest penalties available on those charges. All I'm saying is that people in this thread seem way too keen imprison these teenagers for life, or even shoot them?! Like, jesus christ. I understand the situation was terrifying for those there and their loved ones, but y'all really talking about capital punishment for kids who's brains haven't even developed yet. What about interventions? Or rehabilitation programs? You don't want justice, you want revenge. Shame.
I'm a little older, but as a teenager, I remember one friend with over 300 charges still going out and stealing cars every night, cause he operated on the fact that at 18, his record would get sealed (not sure if this is still the case) and the fact judges would do nothing other than require rehabilitation programs even when he was caught. In terms of those rehabilitation programs, all that did was give him his first connections to real criminals and a network to hook into where he could really blossom within the underworld. Additionally, you only need to look back at some more recent high profile crimes involving teenagers to see most were on bail at the time, so this "soft" approach to re-offenders isn't working like it's intended. Justice these days is caring more about the people committing the crimes than the victims... and tbh, if these kids have to go down to send a message, so be it. They choose to go armed into a public place with the intent to harm, injure or kill others. Now it's time to pay the price for that.
Respectfully, sounds like your old friend was a Habitual Offender, who was going to repeat offend regardless of any consequences. Of course there's the potential to make criminal connections in those rehabilitation programs, but no more than being locked away... In regards to the sealing of records, this info is from the Youth Law Australia .org site : "If you receive a conviction when you are under 18 years old, and you are not dealt with as an adult, then this conviction will be spent after 5 years of you not being in any more trouble within any Australian State or Territory. Any conviction as an adult is spent after 10 years... ...Some convictions are never spent and will remain on your criminal record... ...Some occupations will look at all of your convictions including those that have been spent." They'll go to court, they'll face consequences, so they should. I never said they shouldn't pay a price, I just don't think that price should be their lives. Call me crazy.
Agreed.
Any news outlet which reported there being a gun can go get fucked. I don't know who it was but a certainly read it yesterday.
News.com.au and the Daily Fail, both Murdoch rags
Daily Mail is not Murdoch but it's still the lowest of the low
Daily Mail plagiarises most of its content from Murdoch, so it's easy to make that error.
Donât forget a few posters in this sub repeating the misinformation
The Daily Mail isn't owned by Murdoch.
7 News had this all over their website: "Reports of a gun in David Jones" and the likes.
I heard someone say numchucks. No shit. I just wish they'd get a few more facts before running wild with these stories.
Itâs because a few shoppers in the mall called 000 saying there were offenders with firearms, just not knowing what they were seeing with the hysteria going on. Media always likes to report ASAP but it goes to show you why reporting like that is so dangerous.
So in SA prohibited weapons like expendable batons carry a 2 year detention sentence and a 20k fine. Something tells me the sentence these people receive won't be anything like that. Probably a diversion and good behaviour bond. And we wonder why youth crime is exploding.
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It seems like the severity, not the frequency, may have increased. qualitatively different, if on paper lower in quantity.Â
Funny, that's what the Queensland Police commissioner said 3 years ago, the nsw police coming 2 years ago, and the Victorian police commissioner 18 months ago. The NT commissioner was sacked because he refused to acknowledge it.The problem with police today is that they are no longer a service organisation. They are very much a party political extension. COVID saw to that.
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Lol they'd be out in a few hours and do the same shit all over again. Unless you give them life changing harsher punishment this will keep happening. Australia never learns.
It's not like what they are doing is juvenile. Adult crime, adult time. Lock them up. Think about how scary that would be for so many parents and children. Some could be scared for a long time.
I was working in the centre when it happened and it was terrifying. We didn't know anything was going down until we saw swarms of people running past our store (there'd been an alert over the centre's speakers but it doesnt broadcast in the stores and the audio quality is terrible so we couldnt hear it over our store's music/people talking). People were shouting that someone had a gun. I had my co-workers and nearly all the customers in our store in our backroom and was about to lock us in, but a security guard screamed at us to leave the centre, so we ran outside (our store's right across from the doors). The alarms then didn't go off until we were standing outside. We waited in the cold for hours, first hearing that there were men with machetes in David Jones, and then a knife fight in the food court. No one told us anything and we had to update ourselves from the news. The whole thing was a mess. My co-workers and I were really shaken up, we thought we could've died. It was actually a relief to learn it was just eshays fighting, and not some targeted attack.Â
Plus their actions caused injuries to two people - a girl and an elderly woman. Falls for older people can be so serious. Little shits have zero respect and should be treated like adults. Fuck around and find out
It's the response by Westfield to it that caused it not them little shits directly
Youâre seriously suggesting Westfield overreacted? You obviously live in a different world to the rest of us.
How do you think that Westfield should have responded then?
Not cause mass hysteria
First time experiencing the human race?
I doubt, Australia is super soft on youth crimes. Unless someone has balls who ratify the obsolete ineffective laws we have, nothing will change.
We don't treat minors differently because of their actions, we treat them differently because of their inability to properly reason.
Pieces of shit
And they'll be back out on bail, and go for round 2
The sad truth of the Australian justice system is!
I would not be surprised to find out that this wasn't round 1.
Theyâre under 18, they didnât actually assault anyone. What kind of jail term were you hoping for mate? I should we just put them in public stocks and take turns flogging them?
They actually did hurt the people they chased. Iâm not sure why the news is not reporting it. One girl was smacked over the head with a baton and was knocked unconscious.
Personally, I havenât seen that in any of the news reports; care to share your source? The only thing I have read says it was a group of underage white boys chasing another group of underage white boys.
That's not a bad idea I second your suggestion đđ
I'm all for it.
So what just let them out so they can keep doing this until they actually use the weapons and then charge them? it doesn't matter that they didn't assult anyone this time they were still carrying weapons and that is illegal.
Definitely donât let them out ever; life sentence fr
No one is saying to lock them up for life but they should not just be let out because they are under 18 and didn't really hurt anyone they still broke the law and need punishment. Carry offensive weapon, Maximum Penalty (Fine/Imprisonment), $2 500 / 6 months. They should get 6 months for it. Should we just be letting kids run around with weapons threating people? should we just let anyone under 18 do whatever they want if they don't hurt anyone?
Itâs hard to speculate on a potential punishment when we still know almost nothing about the incident and havenât heard any of the evidence. But six months jail is still more reasonable than donât âlet them outâ or the death sentence some people on this sub are suggesting.
I have an issue with the repeated use of the term âboysâ. So are these boys still boys until the last minute they are aged 17 before turning 18 and then they morph instantly into men. They are above the age of criminal responsibility and things could have been worse. Sure we should recognise that the male brain doesnât maturate until the age of 25 but these so called boys do know the difference between and wrong and need to be held accountable for their actions.
Itâs only judged as an overreaction after the fact. If it was Bondi 2, thereâd be nothing but praise. Still, good to review and refine for ânext timeâ but given the belief there was a knife and the recency and rarity of the Bondi situation, I think it was reasonable. I just hope the two people injured recover quickly and whatever lead to their injuries is addressed for future responses.
If our justice system had any backbone, theyâd deny them bail, and ensure theyâre charged as Adults. Make an example out of them.
For chasing a couple of other kids? No assault actually occurred mate. Calm down there Judge Dredd.
yet they brought extendable batons and knives into a very public place, so no i will not calm the fuck down until something is done about this bullshit. people like you are why it continues. hopefully youâre caught up in the next one, maybe theyâll have machetes or guns, maybe youâll want them to do something then
The poster above isn't saying they shouldn't have some punishment. But charging kids as adults? What do you think that achieves? Put them in jail for 5 years. Derail their lives even more? They come out of jail in 5 years and then what? Now they have a jail record, can't get jobs. Devolves even further. Become desperate people, desperate people do desperate things? Next time instead of batons, it's much worse. Kids are like this due to system failures their whole lives. 15 year olds don't become violent morons because they've lived happy, educated, loving lives. They go this way because the world keeps shitting on them over and over, and you want to add to that shit pile? Want to throw their live sin the bin because of a dumb mistake. Should we throw your life in the bin when you make a mistake? They're kids. That made dumb moronic decisions. Do they need punishment, sure. They sure as shit need support more though, before they become 25 year olds that do even more damage next time. Unless you think having a baton means lock em up, and throw the key away forever? Why not just execute them whilst we're at it? Or are you one of those people that thinks punishment is the only means of fixing behaviour? If so. maybe put some effort into understanding it. Honestly, what exactly is your goal?
So if I chase someone with a knife it is all fair and should be ignored?
Still not confirmed there was any knives involved whatsoever
That's not what I asked.
I know. Your question didnât seem relevant to the discussion, since no knife was involved. Thatâs why I ignored your question, the same way you ignored this fact.
It doesn't matter what was involved or not, you've claimed since no assault actually occurred it should be fine. So if I do it with a knife and don't actually hurt anyone is it fine? Doesn't really matter what the prohibited weapon is, unless you think it is fine to chase someone with some prohibited weapons but not others.
Presence of a knife hasn't been confirmed and literally nobody has said we should just ignore the situation.
That's not what I asked
What you asked is stupid and clearly rhetorical.
It's not rhetorical at all I am questioning the poster on his assertion that since no one was actually assaulted there should be no issue in it happening. Do you think it is fine for people to run around with prohibited weapons?
They never said there was "no issue" and we should "ignore them" they were merely pointing out that there is a difference between carrying a prohibited item and actual physical assault.
And that people shouldn't worry about it
Time to bring the gavel down hard on youth crime.
I was there in the movies. The alert was hard to hear but something about hide. The movie didn't stop and no-one flinched after a few more times and the last one saying they're in David Jones run, hide and call 000. We all started heading to the door lights still off movie still going. (I had never heard an emergency alert like that before she sounded scared and had mentioned them being armed). We came out, my eyes playing tricks on me saw smoke lol. Bombs crossed my mind. Heard someone scream and people running. Running through the exit, I was scared for our lives, on to the roof top, hiding like we had been told? Seriously thinking that they were on they're way to us, these armed offenders, an would pop through that door any minute an start mass shooting. The alert wasn't clear, the signs were a bit silly. If I knew it was a couple of teenagers fighting each other an then probably heading straight out of Marion I wouldn't have feared for my life obviously. Children were crying. People were scared. An to tell everyone over the speaker and those signs to call 000 is rediculous. Good they've had a really good practice though. An hopefully they will fix the type of alerts they have to create a little bit more clarity in the future. An recognised where they can do better in a serious situation. The police and Marion Westfield. As for me I will be checking out all the exits.
The only issue I have is the lack of transparency with what was happening. People had family and friends locked inside Marion thinking there was some Sort of terrorist action and not knowing anything about the situation until at least 1.5 hours later. It then becomes evident in the police press conference that they knew it was kids fighting at 3:30pm when they were called to the scene? Why not let people know? My mate genuinely thought his mum was in severe danger. How about a news flash or post on the police website that says something along the lines of âhey donât stress everyone, there are no gunmen or terror acts happening it was an altercation between some kids including weapons.â With the access we have to information these days itâs wild to me it took so long for the public to find out there was no genuine threat
Firstly, the police were called at 2:52, and had conflicting reports. Secondly, It wasn't until they viewed the CCTV footage after they arrived at the scene until they were pretty confident what was going on. Thirdly, they had reports of multiple knives at marion... the risk of saying, hey guys, you can come out of hiding now was higher than necessary. What if the boys tried to take hostages to escape, for example? Also, people being locked in shops made it easier to search Marion for the boys in case they were hiding. Fourthly, there were some (stupid) reports of a gun being involved. Just because they didn't see it on cctv, doesn't mean that they could be certain there wasn't one that was brandished at part of the precinct. It wad chaotic, and they took a risk averse approach.
I had absolutely no issue with the police response. In fact when I saw them arrive I was relieved, and able to see that there was finally someone there that I could trust. The issue was the way it was handled by Westfield staff and other employees. It was obvious that after the Bondi event Westfield have done absolutely nothing to mitigate any risk. It was an absolute shitshow. I can only speak to my experience, no one else's, but it could not have been handled any worse from my point of view. We watched the video footage online of the chaos of people trying to escape in front of the Lego store, and at that moment we were metres away at the top of the stairs and had absolutely no clue it was happening. Some time later we were forced to leave the store and go out into the mall, only to see the entire place was empty and every other store was closed with their doors locked. At the time everyone thought there was an armed offender, and we got forced to go into the area where people thought this person was, rather than stay in the store and close the doors. The fact that anyone would think the best thing to do is force people to leave the store shows how little Westfield have learned from previous events.
Who is it that forced you to leave the store? Centre security? Police?
Westfield staff and store employees.
Ah ok fair enough. I would assume store staff would only be following orders from centre management/wardens. Generally store staff wouldnât have any more intel than the customers in this situation, it would be Westfield thatâs responsible for putting you in a scary situation there. Totally sucks though, hopefully theyâve learned a lot from the event.
The store employee ran out screaming and panicking telling everyone to get out. We were then met by a Westfield employee who was doing the same, and 2 or 3 other Westfield employees just standing there with blank looks on their faces. It was blatantly obvious absolutely no one knew what to. Regardless of what was actually happening downstairs it was clear that no one had received any training either way. I don't blame any human for reacting in that situation, but I do blame Westfield for not preparing their workforce, by either training, employing people with the correct personality traits, or providing the correct resources, to respond to a situation that occured in one of their facilities only months ago. It just wasn't good enough.
Yeah absolutely, that sounds terrible. Centre management staff should be comprehensively trained and able to carry out that training calmly and correctly in the situation. Store staff I think itâs different, but maybe it shouldnât be in future. Iâve managed many stores in Westfield centres - both Marion and in Melbourne, and generally only the store manager attends training for these scenarios and is expected to convey that training to the team/is given posters with it all on there. Not many store managers work on Sundays, and they definitely arenât there at all opening hours of every day of the week so thereâs clearly a gap in emergency management training there that should be closed and really should have after Bondi..
They ran straight out and weren't caught, how were police to know what actually happened or if they were still inside a shop? People commenting they have knives and guns etc make it harder to determine what actually happened.
So you wouldnât want more transparency from media and police when your loved ones are in the same situation? Just sit and wait for an hour and a half thinking thereâs a gunman on the loose while your mum, dad, daughter or son are locked away in there? Multiple media sources stated âgunmanâ and âweaponâ. In the press conference they said âwe were made aware of an altercation between young boys at 3:30pm - why not let people know thatâs the case instead of letting the internet run wild with false information and make people think their loved ones are at serious risk?? The media and police jump on things within seconds in any other scenario but when thereâs genuine risk and worry where the hell are they??? Not to mention thereâs CCTV surely it doesnât take one and a half hours to review the cctv of the exact moment to find out whatâs happened. Just let people know whatâs going on, not hard
I think you're missing the point. How can you be transparent as to what's happening when you don't have the information... Have to take the worst case scenario approach.
They said on live television that they knew what was happening at 330pm yet didnât tell anybody until 5:30pm. Thatâs my point
And? The best thing to do in situations like this is get the FACTS right. The media have a problem with the facts, so its up to the responders to make sure that this is correct. There is no point going to do a press conference when all you can say is "I have no idea".
Exactly. If they did the press conference and said what they knew early on it would have been something like "we've seen two groups of teenagers fighting and some had extendable batons, but there's also been reports or knives and guns and they could be anywhere in the shopping centre so we need to investigate the area thoroughly", so it ends up back at square one and the same thing happens.
Liability wise...yes it is that hard.,.
Answer me this. What the fuck could have you actually done if you had more information?
Silly question, I wouldnât have âdoneâ anything, but I would feel a hell of a lot better about the situation my friends and family were in. People honestly thought their loved ones were in serious immediate danger, which was not the case. Imagine trying to explain to your 6 year old daughter whatâs happening to her mum without having any information on the situation.
Correct. Anyone justifying the police response do not grasp how incompetent it was nor the panic it created. Police public response to these situations in other cities are a lot more informative and responsive and do their best to disarm panic. Those who only are praising SAPOL, get a grip.Â
Moe: The "baton"? Hey fellas, the "baton"! Well, ooh la di da, Mr. French Man. Homer: Well what do you call it? Moe: A trolley pole
Anyone that says this is an overreaction is ridiculous. All it takes is one person getting stabbed and their life could be ruined, or over entirely.
2 eshays having a fight
People saying it was an overreaction, what if it wasnât? What if someone was harmed or worse, killed? If they didnât mass evacuate then people would be screaming nothing more was done & it would be all over the news. They did the right thing, played it safe, weâre all better off for it.
I think that 2 school boys setting a shopping centre on fire warranted more attention than teenagers fighting at the food court. Could just be me.
Plenty of attention was given, of course this fight wasn't just 2 teens punching each other, now was it.
[ŃдаНонО]
That was after 9/11 I suspect. I remember our governments response around bags that could be filled with explosives and left anywhere. I remember one friend suggested we rename our band âUnattended Bagsâ
The *Unattended Bags* with Special Guests *No Backpacks,* presented by *Leave it at the Door Touring.*
Encore: Extra Baggage
I like the UBs hit song *Did You Pack This Yourself?* from the Album: *Carry on Only.*
Haha
Remember how we would bitch and moan and talk about discrimination and how terrible it was? Well we grew up and changed the rules, now security can't just ban them or move them on.
Name and shame the parents.
And what would that achieve? For all we know the parents might not give a care about any of this.
> For all we know the parents might not give a care about any of this. I think thats the point OC was making. The parents don't need to care as the juvi wont even be named and thus they wont be named / shamed either. No incentive to care in that. Problem that OC overlooked is the assumption these kids have parents at all. Lots of kids in care homes near there. The care homes cant do anything to restrain the kids, they just call the cops when they leave without permission and the kids call the cops for a free ride back when they are ready.
Oh ok. So there must be a hell of a lot of kids with zero parents
When it comes to really bad kids.. there is enough in SA that I wouldnât bet my life they have parents thatâs for sure. 730 children in residential care as of April 2024. 4854 kids in total if you include foster kids, kids placed with families etc. I 100% agree it could be just as likely they have families that love them but we should not forget thereâs a pretty good chance they didnât. I bet if you looked at the number of kids going to juvi they would be over represented by kids who are in some kinda care. They might not be the majority even but they would be over represented.
Definitely the numbers of kids who are living in ah out of home care situation is huge. 4854 children whoâs parents are no longer looking after their offspring. You mentioned foster care children and they are included in the numbers of out of home care. Kin care and children living with family members are technically also living in an out of home care situation. There are startling statistics around criminality, poor mental health, substance abuse and poor education outcomes that is associated with out of home care. Lastly there is a very high incidence of sexual abuse if one is living in an out of home care situation. All of the above factors increase the likelihood of aberrant and antisocial behaviours. That is not the parents fault and the behaviour is symptomatic of systemic problems.
It was probably jules
It was amusing to see the completely different reporting styles of The Advertiser and ABC news online and even Channel 7 (showing blurry photos of the alleged crime scene). The Advertiser put their story behind a paywall with sensationalist crap. Where the ABC News online basically said there was an incident at the Marion Shopping Centre and a journalist is investigating.
The process worked, but the media reaction is stupid, alarming, and overwhelmingly poor
I heard this morning some staff are too scared to return to the centre and Iâm wondering if they were offered counseling. Even though they werenât at risk, the fear and trauma for some is real.
Youth crime seems insane at the moment, and they are getting more violent and dangerous as well. We need new laws. As soon as weapons or a risk to the general public is involved, they should be in jail, and their parents should be charged too. Maybe this kind of incident will start to encourage some law changes. Shutting down the biggest shopping center in the state seems like it will draw some attention. The economic cost would be huge and the loss of profit from the shopping center and businesses will be significant, as well as ongoing losses as no doubt many people will be reluctant to head back there anytime soon. (And this will likely expand to shopping centers in general)
This has been going on for years, YEARS. Last year, at Marion shopping centre, car park next to TGIF, about 8 kids in their teens fighting around 5pm on a Saturday afternoon. Big group. Security nowhere, people walking by just watching or not doing anything. I walked up and started yelling at them to stop the crap - about a few minutes later they stopped coz they saw a security guard nearby. It broke up and they scattered. Seen this happen once or twice a year now in varying places. So I ask - what was different this time? The nutter with the knife. That's all. Had that not happened recently - NOTHING would have been different.
Who cares. Need to find more interesting news in this town!
There is literally people yellng out guns as the indicent starts. Misinformation spreads and so does fear. No one knows what is happening other than distant banging and yelling. Fuck these dumbass ruining peaceful neighbourhood and family friendly day
*huge adjective* causes *maximum overreaction* triggering *overreactive response* with *minority blamed*
What caused more injuries, the altercation or the panicked evacuation ?
Why is everyone calling it a violent altercation? If you see the footage it was teenagers chasing each other. There was no violent physical altercation involved. Yes there were weapons involved but that doesnât mean violence occurred. Edit: Why the downvotes? Show me footage where there was a âbrawlâ or violent altercation?
Didn't y'all forget the ole times as a teenager when you played chasey with your mates while wielding a knife and sending a shopping centre into a lock lockdown? /s
When I was a teenager we had the common decency to do this in a Maccas carpark as is tradition.
Did I miss the part where it was confirmed a knife was involved? The police were very careful when they said two extendable batons were used and only âreportsâ of a knife but I donât recall any confirmation a knife was involved. Lots of people perpetuating the mistruth though.
Iâve seen more violence and more consequences of violence resulting in grievous bodily harm at a school football carnival
A slap on the wrists and off you go kiddies. đ