For sure, I've never been a good sleeper but in my first marathon build this year, it was the first time I was in the 60+M weeks range and I was always so happy to get 9+ hours of sleep with ease
Magnesium bi-glycinate is a game changer. I have kids, so sleep is usually difficult to come by (I average about 6.5-7hrs), but I find that supplement makes me sleep.
I had the opposite experience. I tried magnesium, theanine, and melatonin. After flushing money down the toilet I learned all of that stuff was a sham.
I'm finally sleeping well and the thing that did it for me was going to bed and waking at the same time every day. Then I built on top of that habit with no screens for 1 hour before bed, and no food fore 3 hours before bed.
I have not spent a dime on any snake oils ever since I discovered good sleep hygiene.
It isn't a sham. Everyone responds differently to different supplements and medications.
Just like your routine works for you, probably not for everyone.
I guess there's some truth to that. If somebody's diet is low in magnesium then a supplement will work for them because it's fixing a deficiency. If they're already meeting their nutritional needs through diet then the supplement isn't going to do anything.
Anyway, learning sleep hygiene is what actually worked for me. The folks at r/sleep were pretty helpful, too.
Similar for me (anxiety about kids). It definitely helps.
Also try a hot bath about 30-45 mins before bed. When you get out your body tries to drop your temp quickly and it helps.
Nice!
I measure on both Garmin and SleepCycle. I just got my first 100% on SleepCycle. I'm usually in the high 80s to low 90s. Likewise I don't think I've yet had a week where every day was above 90%
I wish, I typically get scores in the 60's with the occasional 80 thrown in.
Hell even my resting HR is 10% lower awake and working on the computer in the morning than asleep.
I'd try eating just a little more carbs than usual and try to go to bed 30-60 minutes earlier every night and see how you feel. May be a small change that fixes it!
I try to get nearly all my carbs from fruit as opposed to refined carbs and it give me energy without making me inflamed and feel like shit all the time. If you're avoiding plates of refined carbs because they don't sit well with you, I highly recommend trying to get those carbs from fruit instead. Has worked wonders for me.
Runners have a weird obsession with processed carbs for some reason, so people will probably talk shit on this advice, but has def been what works best for me :)
Yass! It took me 2 months to get over more like non-functional overreaching. Turns out, when I started counting, I was getting 45% of my calories from carbohydrates. I e bumped it up to 60% and things are much, much better. I've also done a complete overhaul of my diet, but I think the carb deficiency was really screwing me up.
Clean? Just eat potatoes, rice and bread like wraps etc which is what the East Africa's will mostly eat(some more specific stuff from that area include injera which is a kind of flatbread and ugali which I think is closer to polenta?) and they eat mostly Carb based products with beans and if they afford it, meat and occasionally snacking on fruit like mango, bananas etc. This is probably a good basis to go off for middle to long distance running in terms of diet.
I personally try to avoid all the various fad diets and strict diets tbh. My main rule is to try to home cook and avoid fast food chains and ready meals as much as I can.
Now I'm eating a lot of potatoes (mostly sweet potatoes & yams, but also gold & russet), rice, winter squash. Museli & honey on yogurt easily adds 50 carbs. I'm gonna experiment with quinoa next week. Beans and lentils (in moderation for me...) Oh, and a wide variety of fresh fruit, and frozen fruit in my breakfast smoothie. I had a lot of GI distress that I'm trying to figure out, so I'm not doing bread or pasta right now but I'd eat that. Kinda miss couscous. I'll add it back in soon and see what happens to my guts. I still absolutely use like, Tailwind, PF90 gels, and straight up candy on big efforts. But overall it's a far cry from all the sherbet, sodas, snack cakes and all that stuff I used to eat. I feel a lot better and I've regained my appetite, so whether or not the diet change is placebo, I didn't really care. It's working for me. Maybe it will help you?
ETA: Oh come you you other responders. Don't be purposely obtuse to be mean to this poster. I didn't really like the word "clean" either, but this person is trying to improve their diet, and we all know that eating a yam is probably better than pounding a bowl of ice cream. You know that's what s/he means.
Fair, but maybe something like "hey man, that's kind of a faddish, weird, orthorexia-esque term that doesn't have a concrete meaning and isn't particularly helpful" is actually sending the message, instead of this vague, obtuse, dismissive meanness.
If ya wanna send a message, then by all means.... but then say what you mean and send it like an adult. Ya catch more flies with honey.
Fair point, I'm guessing a lot of people are just fed up with that kinda BS at this point and may be in the mindset of "it's 2024, they've had years to catch on from the rest of the world, I don't care enough to educate and I'm annoyed that I'm STILL having to deal with this BS at this point"
Frozen berries are easiest to get in my diet consistently by way of smoothies. The only other things I'd suggest are double checking your iron intake, make sure you're spending some time stretching, rolling out and maybe give a pair of compression socks or calf sleeves a try during your downtime. They aren't comfortable enough for me to sleep in but I'll wear them at home in the evenings for a few hours when my legs are tired.
Yea the term "overtraining" is used way too often here.
Over training is an incredibly complex, poorly defined, multi-systems issue. Most of these posts are just tired runners.
>While OTS may be observed in the field, little data is available describing how physiological and psychological symptoms manifest. This stems from vague terminology, difficulties in monitoring for prolonged periods of time, and the need for prospective testing. Real-world settings may facilitate the collection of such data, but the ideal testing battery that can easily be conducted on a regular basis does not yet exist. Consequently, it must be concluded that an evidence base of sufficient scientific quality for understanding OTS in athletes is lacking.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35320774/
"Stay off your feet and go binge on movies or something"
I needed to read this. I was such a movie guy before all my training and now I cant remember the last time I sat down to watch any TV.
> Trust that you won't lose much, if any fitness.
This is probably true but I will caveat that you shouldn't just hop back to your old mileage (30 mi). I had a month where I ran inconsistently (alternating weeks of 40 and 15 km including a 7-day stretch totally off from running, this after finishing a block where I peaked at 70), and it took me 4 weeks to build back up to 60 km again.
Anything else going on in your life rn? I had something similar recently (tho I wouldn't necessarily call it overtraining) after my PhD submission in March--I'd been running 60mpw (peak vol me) for several months and training pretty well right up to submission week. Then after submission I totally crashed. Even after some good long catch up sleeps, my legs were completely dead, and I felt so fatigued and demotivated. I was also surprised and resistant to the idea, and pushed through it at first (ran 61 miles with fairly big workouts the week following submission--silly idea with hindsight), and surprise surprise, it got worse. I actually initially thought I was sick--got tested for Lymes disease and thyroid function, but that all came back normal, and now I am pretty sure it was just stress catching up to me. My first proper taste of how physiological stress can be!
I took 5 days off running (and any other exercise) totally, then started back, feeling a lot more energized. Then I promptly got a foot injury. Only in the past couple of weeks have been back running again.
So--don't be like me! If your body is telling you to take some time off, take some time off, and sooner rather than later. The way that you're feeling right now is a sign that you aren't recovering properly, and if you aren't recovering, then you aren't benefitting from your training, so there really is no point in pushing through. Take a proper break and see how you feel next week.
Oh jeez, sorry to hear.
I'm going to say this is probably the root cause. Anecdote of 1, but I didn't realize how much the stress of being unemployed was fucking up my running.
After I cleared up the stress there, the running recovered by leaps and bounds. Take care of yourself, mentally and physically and it'll get better.
You got this, you can do it
Don't underestimate stress. On a cellular level processes of regeneration and adaptation of tissues get suppressed by our sympathetic nervous system. Take it easy for a while like others said and you will be back to running soon enough.
I often feel like this around week 8 in a 15-16 week training block. I've just started planning to take 5 days off, usually a wed-sun and restart on Monday.
That Monday run is a pain! Usually it's just an easy run, but relaxed muscles are getting back into the mix. A hard interval session on Tuesday and back to easy run on Wednesday. This gets me back into the training and feeling refreshed and strong. My "Why am I even doing this!!" at the end of week 7 feeling is gone and I'm back to being motivated and enjoying the runs after this mid block break.
I would venture to state that you are *not* over-trained but rather, *under*-fed, *under*-slept, etc. Over-training is a rather specific physiological phenomenon.. it's actually rather difficult to do (I'm presuming you're a competitive runner with years of an athletic background, you've built up to 50 MPW, etc).
There's so much *other than running* that could be causing the brain fog, tightness, & fatigue you're feeling. Maybe you've been skimping on strength training. Pre-hab. Re-hab. Stress from work. Try cutting out caffeine a little earlier in the day. More carbs & fats from whole sources. Take a month off booze. Maybe you need to binge a Netflix series & chill out from thinking about running for a week.
Over-training is usually *one of the last things* to be eliminated with respect to this fatigue you're feeling.
Best of luck.
I think you’re right. What I’ve done is decided to be better about hydration, eat more carbs, stop doom scrolling, and be more proactive about a major stressor in my life. Also hope that the weather gods take this humidity away. But this comment sets my mind at ease that it isn’t more than that. Thanks.
Do a deload week where you do active recovery, but instead of running, replace it with low intensity hiking, swimming, or cycling. This usually works for me.
I feel like I have just been overtraining. Was running 7 days a week at 90-100 mpw, but my left popliteus started being uncomfortably sore for at least 10 days or more. Have some light achilles tendonitis as well but that was less of an issue than the popliteus.
I ended up going into cross training my easy workouts with stationary biking since Sunday to take stress off of hamstrings and calves. My sleeping has not been great and my eating has not been great either. So need to fix everything all around.
With the 4 days of cross-training, the popliteus soreness is steadily going away. But again biking is a bit miserable for me so I want to get back to running for my volume.
Do you do strength training? I felt like this after taking over a month off strength work. Counterintuitive and anecdotal, but bringing this back into my routine seemed to help.
I assume you’re a male but bc it hasn’t been mentioned, if you’re a female, this can happen the week before your cycle.
If you’re a dude: heat, nutrition, sleep, or being in the middle of a marathon block are all factors that I find contribute to feelings you’re describing.
“Sleep more” doesn’t have to mean going to bed at 9pm every night and sleeping until 8am the next morning, full stop. Just an extra hour or two of sleep throughout an entire week, like 10-20 extra mins of sleep each night, can make a seriously noticeable difference when you’re training hard and maybe pushing the envelope of how much your body can absorb/adapt to.
Unproven pseudoscience.
The idea being you drain 'old blood' out of your legs and let fresh blood in.
Fortunately, we humans have what's known as a 'Circulatory System' and the idea of 'old blood' is simply impossible - unless you have been diagnosed with Chronic Venous Insufficiency or something equally as restrictive, your blood is always moving. Always.
If your cardiovascular system is working properly, you circulate the entire volume of your blood in about a minute, so yeah old blood isn’t a real thing
It is quite possible you have overtraining syndrome aka rhabdo. Heavy legs, slower runs, weak and less efficient training days, and the lack of motivation tells me you need a break. Stop running and let your body heal. I know you might be worried if you don’t train but this is the only way to get better. You can still get plenty of movement and you can do other things that aren’t running.
I had overtraining syndrome in the winter of 2021 which turned into having hip surgery spring 2022 after I blew out my hip. Still recovering.
Get some rest my friend. Let your body heal. Blood test too absolutely cannot hurt. Also, consider adding vitamins and supplements to your regiment
[https://oceanusamerica.com/shockwave-therapy-products/in-home-shockwave-therapy-products/](https://oceanusamerica.com/shockwave-therapy-products/in-home-shockwave-therapy-products/) This is what I got for home use, 1 bar strength is powerful enough for disc regeneration in clinical studies so it does work. If you want 5-10 bar strength hit up eBay and search for something around 800-1200 dollars they are magic. My chiro has an eBay one from China and it completely resolved my Morton's neuroma in 7 once-weekly treatments, the pain was almost gone after 2 though, fixed the tendonitis in my right elbow that I had for years in 1 treatment, absolute magic. Activates stem cells, as potent as a cortisone shot for inflammation, disintegrates calcification and blunts spurs, and does other stuff like help stress fractures heal. Anyway, my chiro uses it for his hip twice a week and it helps him keep going without needing painkillers, best I got!
I just want to point out that there is no high quality research backing these things up. That's not to assert that they don't work. It just means they don't have definitive research. I do feel extra skeptical when I see that they're mostly used by chiropractors and that people are repeatedly sharing the same link to the same $800 products.
There is a lot of research backing them up, a ton of physical therapists and Boston General use them which is where my chiro discovered it. They however spend 25,000 on a Storz brand one or 75,000 on a Softwave one since it has to be commercial grade to last through an office environment level of abuse. I see you are an anti-chiropractor kinda dude. Believe it or not, my wife with her doctorate in physical therapy loves our chiropractor and our shockwave machine which she recommended we get, this whole idea that they are sketchy and therefore if they use shockwave it is sketchy is just stupid as fuck if you find a good one just like with any health provider they are great but you do you.
I appreciate the input from everyone and thank you for sharing that. I’ll be looking into but am def happy to hear that it worked for you
Kinda sucks there isn’t better access to stuff like this
The most important is identifying what kind of workout doing this.
Because glutes part when i have some ache its come from training like : sprint uphill or few sprint at max.
And then for three day i'm fucked up. I'm still running with any discomfort there is moment injure, pain, aches may dissapear on its own, don't do intensity workout eat well sleep well all good.
Around your range of mpw its even possible your body hasn't is own full recovery system because you are still untrained somehow,
If this is broke your motivation maybe take 5 day off or two week to restart a new cycle of progression. A full recovery is deserved if you having this down about running
Is is hot where you live? I have a lot of trouble with heat and usually feel varying amounts of terrible all summer long. And that's when I'm well hydrated. So start with making sure you're drinking enough, try to get out early, slow down in the heat, and run shorter. Shorter doubles vs one longer run helps me too. For me the extra heat stress means 55 mpw feels more like 70.
I've had this issue, and when it doesn't clear up, either doing blood work to see if something is way off, or taking lots of Vitamin B (suggestion from an ultra marathoner I knew, as they're not strangers at all to over training).
Either way, it can take a bit to recover from. Once took me 4 months of slogging around before I got the snap back in my legs. But Take the vitamins and see what happens, book the Rx for that blood work to check and see what might be off if it persists. Good luck recovering!
As others have indicated, stress, diet, sleep, and yes training all have an effect directly or in some combination. Try to zero in on the sources and work on those. 35-50 mpw, unless it's really high intensity, shouldn't lead you to overtraining. re-setting can take a few days, weeks, or months. If you have really dug a hole (e.g., REDs) then it might take longer. I did that in the last year college and it was 18-20 months before I got my legs back.
Yeah
I got mild rhabdo
Took me over a year to be able to run again. My legs were strong before the bad run, but after they were like jelly for months on end. It didn’t make sense lol.
Got back into it though, just became a walking and hiking fiend in the meantime. People in my apartments knew I’d walk like 5 miles a day lol
The worst part for me is psychological, it can be really frustrating and destroy your confidence, which can lead to more bad decisions.
Take it easy, don’t do too much or too little, and most importantly, always keep doing strength work.
Depends how serious it is. One time it only took a week or two to feel normal, another more recent stretch took 6mo and I’m still feeling the effects a year later at times
One week if I catch it early (heavy legs, general fatigue, some low level but annoying tendon issues is the usual manifestation).
Cut volume to 30% max, all easy runs or just don't run. Eat 50% more calories of good quality food (protein and carbs especially) than usual. Then bring volume back to 70% all easy, then 100% all easy, then bring back intensity.
I stumbled on this fix traveling for Thanksgiving week and it has worked every time since.
I ran into this mid marathon block. I took a couple of weeks down (no long run and only easy runs). Then I got covid, did two additional weeks of only a couple of easy runs and a couple of easy sessions on a stationary bike. Was able to ramp back up quickly, hit my peak long run 3 weeks out, and hit my "B" goal on race day.
Before the marathon block I had taken a couple of weeks completely off after ramping up my base mileage because of the same kind of feeling. I think that was the better approach but when you're about 8 weeks out from a marathon it's hard to do that.
I have. It happened when I tried increasing my volume. I would feel so tired everyday for about a week until I decided to take a couple of days off to then grind back gradually to where I was. I then made sure to prioritize sleep and I’m feeling so much better now.
So yeah, sleeping is the key
That's not overtraining syndrome. You would have taken way longer to recover. You were just overreaching and since you didn't run through that for many weeks you avoided overtraining syndrome.
My CK was super elevated (like 2500?) two weeks after my last race of the season last year November, and didn't really feel like I was back to my usual self in training until like... March/April. I tried to train through a very stressful period where I was averaging 5-6hrs of sleep a night for 5-10k racing. Battled a string of illnesses (flu, had recurring strep) that winter, and had a really crummy check-in 8 mile race. But I'm feeling super fit right now coming into the end of my spring cycle, feeling like I might be in a place for a breakthrough.
Edit: similar volumes, average 50-60mpw, and I'm a man in his mid-30s.
Take the rest of the month off (or at the very least a week or something) and start your training in July in earnest. If you're not feeling great and can't really pinpoint why, you shouldn't try to keep pushing and hope things improve. Your body is trying to tell you something and you're better off listening to it. Whenever I feel like you (and I've felt like you often) I take a few days off and I'm usually right as rain after a nice break
More than how the body feels, overtraining impact on the hormonal balance impacting mood and brain function is the key thing to monitor. I find I can handle 3-4 weeks of heavy “new peak” load after which my mood is completely off and it takes a bit of time (weeks) to get back. The lesson is to avoid those peaks lasting more than 2 weeks.
Back off for a day or three. Look at your training design and recovery and make sure you have enough variety (speed, strength, surface, length). If you are not getting enjoyment from running, don’t do it. The world won’t end. Cross train in the meanwhile if you’re up to it.
I did in winter of 2023. Way too many tempo/threshold runs in a short timespan with too little recovery in between them.
Resulted in a nasty case of groin strain and recurrence of IT band syndrome.
Deloading for a few weeks and doing only slow, easy runs did the trick. Actually this also improved my fitness more than this period of overtraining o.O ( or maybe the body was only then able to recover and create all the adaptations).
Um, yes. I gave myself some sort of knee strain or runner's knee last fall. Took me a good six months to be able to run again without pain - put me back quite a bit on my endurance, but I think I am back to where I was. I generally tend to run through soreness and such, but this felt BAD and wrong.
I set my weekly mileage too high too quickly, and the results were not worth it. Maybe ease up a bit, eat more, drink more, and work on weight training.
Most people overtrain at some point then learn how to train more sustainably. How long have you been training for? Diet? My advice is to gradually build up mileage until you can do 4-5 days easy and 2 tempo, with a sunday long run. Strength and mobility is important and eat lots, fuel on long runs.
That’s not overtraining. Just check your life stressors and work through it. Here’s perspective: I overtrained. Former D1 athlete. After an 18 month injury in college where I avg’d maybe 2-3 hrs a week of cardio, I ramped up in the summer to the final 3 weeks of 130mi/wk (almost every day 15-20mi long runs a high to low 6’s per mile, with some 5’) in a matter of 3 months. Early in the fall, 4:50 mile repeats on grass started feeling conversational on 60s rest. But I didn’t eat enough, didn’t know how to fuel around runs, at the tail end I started dating a girl who kept me up till 2-3am most nights and wanted crazy amount of seggs. Broke up w her. Psychologically got really depressed and suddenly felt fully lactic running 6:30 pace and couldn’t even manage a couple miles some days without sitting down and wanted to fall asleep on the sidewalk and never get up again. Iron (ferritin levels) tanked. Had to take iron for months. That shit took me 5 months to feel somewhat normal and I had to run only 30mi/week while I was recovering. It’s pretty hard to overtrain but if you’re psychotic it’s possible.
As others have alluded to, overtraining is often due to stress which is due to poor sleep and nutrition. Take some down weeks and reset.
Whenever I've been overtrained I would take 2-3 weeks off after the season (no running), then typically come back stronger. Some of it is psychological too. It sounds like you might need a psychical and mental break.
If it takes less than a month you weren’t overtrained, you were just tired. Overtraining is a very serious issue and I don’t like to see it be trivialized by people just being drama queens.
See a doctor if you think something really is wrong.
I overtrain at least once per month or two. Takes me 2-4 days of easy/recovery runs along with couple of 10+ hours of overnight sleeps to recuperate.
Also, it helps if I can squeeze in a nice 16-24h intermittent fast of which most of it is just a base metabolism couch/sleep, followed by a nice salty broth soup and cooked meal (ie.steak + vegetblees) without sugar/desert.
p.s. M45 @ 60-75 MPW. Running every day.
p.s2. I would not even signup/train for a marathon unless I'd have 55+ MPW base for at least 3/4 of a year (but that is just me - take it as it is).
I made a post with a reference higher up, but no, you do not suffer from complex, multi-system dysfunction "once or twice a month".
You are just getting tired.
(And suggesting over fatigued runners should fast is laughable)
Excuse me, I didn't realise OP was talking about "complex, multi-system dysfunction". Did we read the same post? Maybe check..
Anyways, now that I've read it again more carefully, I'm pretty sure OP just has a classic prolongued DOMS and lack of motivation due to the fact. Probably from too hard workouts on a low volume, IDK.
As for my case, I do definitely get overtrained & overfatigued which is a synonyme for endurance athletes who train their base for 90% of 365 calendar days. I am in running for 20+ years and know how my body works, thank you very much.
About intermittent fasting, won't even try to argue, I'll just put a "broscience" google result - you can google for an actual studies and educate yourself properly: "Studies show that intermittent fasting stimulates the production of ketones, which act as an energy source for neurons. Upon the release of these ketones our bodies increase the number of mitochondria in our neurons, which are responsible for taking in nutrients and creating energy."
(Not who you were replying to) They’re talking about overtraining syndrome, which is not the same as going hard for a couple days or being tired here and there. And intermittent fasting is not backed up by science, and definitely is not a good idea for runners.
Look, the overall consensus in the thread is that the OP does not have any shape or form of an overtraining syndrome, he just randomly wrote the term in the topic due to the ignorance or a bait (?), yet (CodeBrown) jumped on top of everyones responses like the whole topic is some super scientific/medical discussion about overtraining syndrome. It isn't. OP just superficially started the typical - "I'm tired, boss" - topic.
Read the OP carefully and you'll see. OP doesn't have a clue. It is like someone throws a to complain about the pimple and your response becomes a lecture on what different types of cancers might it be. Pretty absurd.
Also, I invite you to read my original resonse where I mentioned overtaining (as a verb), not a noun of a condition or sympthom(s).
Finally, I.F. is definitely backed by science (medicine and molecularbiologist). It is just not backed by running PT's, the ednurance sport "fuel industry" and overall mindset of running for speed/fitness/olympics.
When you mention overtraining in this sub, they’re going to think you’re referring to the syndrome. It’s confusing to use the term if you/OP just mean “tired”.
Intermittent fasting - there were some promising studies initially, but since then they’ve had bigger, better quality studies that ruled out a lot of those supposed benefits. I’m happy to change my mind if you have recent, quality studies that show otherwise.
Your volume isn't even high.
How is your recovery? Sleep? Nutrition? Are you also working a physically demanding job? Is the weather hot and humid where you live?
This is quite literally me right now. I was crushing 40 mile weeks, then had a work trip where I was working from wakeup to sleep time in the hotel. Now I'm back and trying to get everything at work and at home caught back up while preparing for another trip next week. This week is probably going to clock in just under 30 miles with easier quality days and is gonna be the hardest of my entire training block.
Definitely! Thankfully, I'm not letting running compound my stress. I've known this week had the potential to be a mess for the last month or so, so I was prepared. I also love the health stats on my watch because they give me something to double check my perceived feelings to see if something's actually up with my training, or I just bit off a little more than I should have outside of training.
I know my volume is low, but it’s all I can squeeze in without causing inconvenience to others. Recovery is good. Sleep is okay 6-8 hours a week. Nutrition is okay, but could be better. It’s hot and humid now, but I was starting to feel this way in the spring, but maybe it is an acclimation thing. Your comment is a good reminder to take another review of everything.
Lowkey feel like this sub is toxic sometimes lol because 30-50 is v normal to high for even “advanced” marathon runners. Not all us have to be elites running 100+ mpw to be considered advanced
Thanks for saying that. I know two people in real life who hit 90-100+ and they are the outliers. Every other runner in my club and elsewhere in my life runs between 10-60 mpw. I feel like I’m on the average to high end out of all the serious “recreational” that I know.
No problem! I think it can be discouraging when people minimize how difficult even hitting that 30 mpw metric is. Good luck with your training! Summer running is hard, I’m sure with proper recovery and sleep you’ll be feeling better on your runs :)
Your volume isn't low either. It just is not high enough to explain constantly feeling tired and demotivated even after lowering intensity (assuming you did not suddenly jump from 20 mpw to 40 mpw).
Are you eating enough?
I'd also look into sleeping more
Sleep is like a recovery hack. After my long runs, I go to bed early (8pm) and get a solid 10-11 hours. I feel fantastic the next day.
For sure, I've never been a good sleeper but in my first marathon build this year, it was the first time I was in the 60+M weeks range and I was always so happy to get 9+ hours of sleep with ease
Magnesium bi-glycinate is a game changer. I have kids, so sleep is usually difficult to come by (I average about 6.5-7hrs), but I find that supplement makes me sleep.
I had the opposite experience. I tried magnesium, theanine, and melatonin. After flushing money down the toilet I learned all of that stuff was a sham. I'm finally sleeping well and the thing that did it for me was going to bed and waking at the same time every day. Then I built on top of that habit with no screens for 1 hour before bed, and no food fore 3 hours before bed. I have not spent a dime on any snake oils ever since I discovered good sleep hygiene.
It isn't a sham. Everyone responds differently to different supplements and medications. Just like your routine works for you, probably not for everyone.
I guess there's some truth to that. If somebody's diet is low in magnesium then a supplement will work for them because it's fixing a deficiency. If they're already meeting their nutritional needs through diet then the supplement isn't going to do anything. Anyway, learning sleep hygiene is what actually worked for me. The folks at r/sleep were pretty helpful, too.
Interesting, I find an overly active and anxious mind has been the problem for me, maybe Ill give it a shot
Similar for me (anxiety about kids). It definitely helps. Also try a hot bath about 30-45 mins before bed. When you get out your body tries to drop your temp quickly and it helps.
One day I'll get a full week of >90 sleep score on Garmin. One day.
Nice! I measure on both Garmin and SleepCycle. I just got my first 100% on SleepCycle. I'm usually in the high 80s to low 90s. Likewise I don't think I've yet had a week where every day was above 90%
I wish, I typically get scores in the 60's with the occasional 80 thrown in. Hell even my resting HR is 10% lower awake and working on the computer in the morning than asleep.
My diet could be dialed in a bit better. I think I’m eating enough, but there’s probably some room for more carbs.
That's usually the first place I look when I feel like shit during the week. Get busy and forget to eat rice or potatoes as much as I should be lol
Yup. Going to go buy some sweet potatoes and make a big thing of spaghet tonight now!
I'd try eating just a little more carbs than usual and try to go to bed 30-60 minutes earlier every night and see how you feel. May be a small change that fixes it!
I try to get nearly all my carbs from fruit as opposed to refined carbs and it give me energy without making me inflamed and feel like shit all the time. If you're avoiding plates of refined carbs because they don't sit well with you, I highly recommend trying to get those carbs from fruit instead. Has worked wonders for me. Runners have a weird obsession with processed carbs for some reason, so people will probably talk shit on this advice, but has def been what works best for me :)
Brown rice and potatoes also work along with fruit
Why eat peasant food when you can eat like a king?
Because peasant food is comfort food. Nothing like cold avocado soup and a giant bag of tortilla chips after a summer workout.
And now I want this
I’m doing the same. I get all my carbs from fruit under sourdough bread haha
Yass! It took me 2 months to get over more like non-functional overreaching. Turns out, when I started counting, I was getting 45% of my calories from carbohydrates. I e bumped it up to 60% and things are much, much better. I've also done a complete overhaul of my diet, but I think the carb deficiency was really screwing me up.
What are some good clean carbs u eat?
Clean? Just eat potatoes, rice and bread like wraps etc which is what the East Africa's will mostly eat(some more specific stuff from that area include injera which is a kind of flatbread and ugali which I think is closer to polenta?) and they eat mostly Carb based products with beans and if they afford it, meat and occasionally snacking on fruit like mango, bananas etc. This is probably a good basis to go off for middle to long distance running in terms of diet. I personally try to avoid all the various fad diets and strict diets tbh. My main rule is to try to home cook and avoid fast food chains and ready meals as much as I can.
Now I'm eating a lot of potatoes (mostly sweet potatoes & yams, but also gold & russet), rice, winter squash. Museli & honey on yogurt easily adds 50 carbs. I'm gonna experiment with quinoa next week. Beans and lentils (in moderation for me...) Oh, and a wide variety of fresh fruit, and frozen fruit in my breakfast smoothie. I had a lot of GI distress that I'm trying to figure out, so I'm not doing bread or pasta right now but I'd eat that. Kinda miss couscous. I'll add it back in soon and see what happens to my guts. I still absolutely use like, Tailwind, PF90 gels, and straight up candy on big efforts. But overall it's a far cry from all the sherbet, sodas, snack cakes and all that stuff I used to eat. I feel a lot better and I've regained my appetite, so whether or not the diet change is placebo, I didn't really care. It's working for me. Maybe it will help you? ETA: Oh come you you other responders. Don't be purposely obtuse to be mean to this poster. I didn't really like the word "clean" either, but this person is trying to improve their diet, and we all know that eating a yam is probably better than pounding a bowl of ice cream. You know that's what s/he means.
I mean yes, we all know what they mean, but maybe getting some pushback on the terminology will send a message
Fair, but maybe something like "hey man, that's kind of a faddish, weird, orthorexia-esque term that doesn't have a concrete meaning and isn't particularly helpful" is actually sending the message, instead of this vague, obtuse, dismissive meanness. If ya wanna send a message, then by all means.... but then say what you mean and send it like an adult. Ya catch more flies with honey.
Fair point, I'm guessing a lot of people are just fed up with that kinda BS at this point and may be in the mindset of "it's 2024, they've had years to catch on from the rest of the world, I don't care enough to educate and I'm annoyed that I'm STILL having to deal with this BS at this point"
🤝
Mostly ones that haven't been dropped on the floor, or have at least been washed afterwards
Mixing in anti inflammatory foods?
Overall yes, but are there any that you have found really helpful?
Frozen berries are easiest to get in my diet consistently by way of smoothies. The only other things I'd suggest are double checking your iron intake, make sure you're spending some time stretching, rolling out and maybe give a pair of compression socks or calf sleeves a try during your downtime. They aren't comfortable enough for me to sleep in but I'll wear them at home in the evenings for a few hours when my legs are tired.
Frozen berries, plus some fresh ginger and turmeric roots in the smoothie.
Get a blood test as well. Check iron and ferritin levels. If they are low, you will have symptoms that are similar to overtraining.
Yea the term "overtraining" is used way too often here. Over training is an incredibly complex, poorly defined, multi-systems issue. Most of these posts are just tired runners. >While OTS may be observed in the field, little data is available describing how physiological and psychological symptoms manifest. This stems from vague terminology, difficulties in monitoring for prolonged periods of time, and the need for prospective testing. Real-world settings may facilitate the collection of such data, but the ideal testing battery that can easily be conducted on a regular basis does not yet exist. Consequently, it must be concluded that an evidence base of sufficient scientific quality for understanding OTS in athletes is lacking. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35320774/
This. This. This.
I am trying to cut weight so I am eating less calories got runners knee last week taking time to heal
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"Stay off your feet and go binge on movies or something" I needed to read this. I was such a movie guy before all my training and now I cant remember the last time I sat down to watch any TV.
That last part is so true. Thanks.
> Trust that you won't lose much, if any fitness. This is probably true but I will caveat that you shouldn't just hop back to your old mileage (30 mi). I had a month where I ran inconsistently (alternating weeks of 40 and 15 km including a 7-day stretch totally off from running, this after finishing a block where I peaked at 70), and it took me 4 weeks to build back up to 60 km again.
Get a blood test to look into stuff like iron/feratin levels
Diet Sleep Strength work Likely one of those 3 is lacking, but luckily it doesn't sound like you have overtraining syndrome.
Thanks. Sleep is pretty great. Other two could get more dialed in.
Gotta focus on your glutes in strength training, unless something is torn more rest won’t really lead to you feeling better. Need more strength.
Anything else going on in your life rn? I had something similar recently (tho I wouldn't necessarily call it overtraining) after my PhD submission in March--I'd been running 60mpw (peak vol me) for several months and training pretty well right up to submission week. Then after submission I totally crashed. Even after some good long catch up sleeps, my legs were completely dead, and I felt so fatigued and demotivated. I was also surprised and resistant to the idea, and pushed through it at first (ran 61 miles with fairly big workouts the week following submission--silly idea with hindsight), and surprise surprise, it got worse. I actually initially thought I was sick--got tested for Lymes disease and thyroid function, but that all came back normal, and now I am pretty sure it was just stress catching up to me. My first proper taste of how physiological stress can be! I took 5 days off running (and any other exercise) totally, then started back, feeling a lot more energized. Then I promptly got a foot injury. Only in the past couple of weeks have been back running again. So--don't be like me! If your body is telling you to take some time off, take some time off, and sooner rather than later. The way that you're feeling right now is a sign that you aren't recovering properly, and if you aren't recovering, then you aren't benefitting from your training, so there really is no point in pushing through. Take a proper break and see how you feel next week.
I got laid off and have been out of work for a bit. That might have something to do with it. Lol.
Oh jeez, sorry to hear. I'm going to say this is probably the root cause. Anecdote of 1, but I didn't realize how much the stress of being unemployed was fucking up my running. After I cleared up the stress there, the running recovered by leaps and bounds. Take care of yourself, mentally and physically and it'll get better. You got this, you can do it
Don't underestimate stress. On a cellular level processes of regeneration and adaptation of tissues get suppressed by our sympathetic nervous system. Take it easy for a while like others said and you will be back to running soon enough.
that'll do it, for sure!
In my case, two weeks off between the blocks recharge me completely
I often feel like this around week 8 in a 15-16 week training block. I've just started planning to take 5 days off, usually a wed-sun and restart on Monday. That Monday run is a pain! Usually it's just an easy run, but relaxed muscles are getting back into the mix. A hard interval session on Tuesday and back to easy run on Wednesday. This gets me back into the training and feeling refreshed and strong. My "Why am I even doing this!!" at the end of week 7 feeling is gone and I'm back to being motivated and enjoying the runs after this mid block break.
I would venture to state that you are *not* over-trained but rather, *under*-fed, *under*-slept, etc. Over-training is a rather specific physiological phenomenon.. it's actually rather difficult to do (I'm presuming you're a competitive runner with years of an athletic background, you've built up to 50 MPW, etc). There's so much *other than running* that could be causing the brain fog, tightness, & fatigue you're feeling. Maybe you've been skimping on strength training. Pre-hab. Re-hab. Stress from work. Try cutting out caffeine a little earlier in the day. More carbs & fats from whole sources. Take a month off booze. Maybe you need to binge a Netflix series & chill out from thinking about running for a week. Over-training is usually *one of the last things* to be eliminated with respect to this fatigue you're feeling. Best of luck.
I think you’re right. What I’ve done is decided to be better about hydration, eat more carbs, stop doom scrolling, and be more proactive about a major stressor in my life. Also hope that the weather gods take this humidity away. But this comment sets my mind at ease that it isn’t more than that. Thanks.
Do a deload week where you do active recovery, but instead of running, replace it with low intensity hiking, swimming, or cycling. This usually works for me.
Check your iron.
I feel like I have just been overtraining. Was running 7 days a week at 90-100 mpw, but my left popliteus started being uncomfortably sore for at least 10 days or more. Have some light achilles tendonitis as well but that was less of an issue than the popliteus. I ended up going into cross training my easy workouts with stationary biking since Sunday to take stress off of hamstrings and calves. My sleeping has not been great and my eating has not been great either. So need to fix everything all around. With the 4 days of cross-training, the popliteus soreness is steadily going away. But again biking is a bit miserable for me so I want to get back to running for my volume.
Do you do strength training? I felt like this after taking over a month off strength work. Counterintuitive and anecdotal, but bringing this back into my routine seemed to help.
When this happened to me a took a full month almost entirely off running. Helped a lot.
Is it hotter now? Are you adjusting pace, intensity, and hydration?
I assume you’re a male but bc it hasn’t been mentioned, if you’re a female, this can happen the week before your cycle. If you’re a dude: heat, nutrition, sleep, or being in the middle of a marathon block are all factors that I find contribute to feelings you’re describing.
“Sleep more” doesn’t have to mean going to bed at 9pm every night and sleeping until 8am the next morning, full stop. Just an extra hour or two of sleep throughout an entire week, like 10-20 extra mins of sleep each night, can make a seriously noticeable difference when you’re training hard and maybe pushing the envelope of how much your body can absorb/adapt to.
Do you use a foam roller? That helps tightness in my legs/glutes quite a bit when training
Yeah I use it a lot. And I do leg drains, which help a bit.
What are leg drains?
Unproven pseudoscience. The idea being you drain 'old blood' out of your legs and let fresh blood in. Fortunately, we humans have what's known as a 'Circulatory System' and the idea of 'old blood' is simply impossible - unless you have been diagnosed with Chronic Venous Insufficiency or something equally as restrictive, your blood is always moving. Always.
If your cardiovascular system is working properly, you circulate the entire volume of your blood in about a minute, so yeah old blood isn’t a real thing
It is quite possible you have overtraining syndrome aka rhabdo. Heavy legs, slower runs, weak and less efficient training days, and the lack of motivation tells me you need a break. Stop running and let your body heal. I know you might be worried if you don’t train but this is the only way to get better. You can still get plenty of movement and you can do other things that aren’t running. I had overtraining syndrome in the winter of 2021 which turned into having hip surgery spring 2022 after I blew out my hip. Still recovering. Get some rest my friend. Let your body heal. Blood test too absolutely cannot hurt. Also, consider adding vitamins and supplements to your regiment
Get a shockwave therapy device for home use it will change your life ;)
Surprisingly never heard of that treatment. Any specific one you recommend?
[https://oceanusamerica.com/shockwave-therapy-products/in-home-shockwave-therapy-products/](https://oceanusamerica.com/shockwave-therapy-products/in-home-shockwave-therapy-products/) This is what I got for home use, 1 bar strength is powerful enough for disc regeneration in clinical studies so it does work. If you want 5-10 bar strength hit up eBay and search for something around 800-1200 dollars they are magic. My chiro has an eBay one from China and it completely resolved my Morton's neuroma in 7 once-weekly treatments, the pain was almost gone after 2 though, fixed the tendonitis in my right elbow that I had for years in 1 treatment, absolute magic. Activates stem cells, as potent as a cortisone shot for inflammation, disintegrates calcification and blunts spurs, and does other stuff like help stress fractures heal. Anyway, my chiro uses it for his hip twice a week and it helps him keep going without needing painkillers, best I got!
I just want to point out that there is no high quality research backing these things up. That's not to assert that they don't work. It just means they don't have definitive research. I do feel extra skeptical when I see that they're mostly used by chiropractors and that people are repeatedly sharing the same link to the same $800 products.
There is a lot of research backing them up, a ton of physical therapists and Boston General use them which is where my chiro discovered it. They however spend 25,000 on a Storz brand one or 75,000 on a Softwave one since it has to be commercial grade to last through an office environment level of abuse. I see you are an anti-chiropractor kinda dude. Believe it or not, my wife with her doctorate in physical therapy loves our chiropractor and our shockwave machine which she recommended we get, this whole idea that they are sketchy and therefore if they use shockwave it is sketchy is just stupid as fuck if you find a good one just like with any health provider they are great but you do you.
I appreciate the input from everyone and thank you for sharing that. I’ll be looking into but am def happy to hear that it worked for you Kinda sucks there isn’t better access to stuff like this
The most important is identifying what kind of workout doing this. Because glutes part when i have some ache its come from training like : sprint uphill or few sprint at max. And then for three day i'm fucked up. I'm still running with any discomfort there is moment injure, pain, aches may dissapear on its own, don't do intensity workout eat well sleep well all good. Around your range of mpw its even possible your body hasn't is own full recovery system because you are still untrained somehow, If this is broke your motivation maybe take 5 day off or two week to restart a new cycle of progression. A full recovery is deserved if you having this down about running
Is is hot where you live? I have a lot of trouble with heat and usually feel varying amounts of terrible all summer long. And that's when I'm well hydrated. So start with making sure you're drinking enough, try to get out early, slow down in the heat, and run shorter. Shorter doubles vs one longer run helps me too. For me the extra heat stress means 55 mpw feels more like 70.
I've had this issue, and when it doesn't clear up, either doing blood work to see if something is way off, or taking lots of Vitamin B (suggestion from an ultra marathoner I knew, as they're not strangers at all to over training). Either way, it can take a bit to recover from. Once took me 4 months of slogging around before I got the snap back in my legs. But Take the vitamins and see what happens, book the Rx for that blood work to check and see what might be off if it persists. Good luck recovering!
How old are you?
As others have indicated, stress, diet, sleep, and yes training all have an effect directly or in some combination. Try to zero in on the sources and work on those. 35-50 mpw, unless it's really high intensity, shouldn't lead you to overtraining. re-setting can take a few days, weeks, or months. If you have really dug a hole (e.g., REDs) then it might take longer. I did that in the last year college and it was 18-20 months before I got my legs back.
Yeah I got mild rhabdo Took me over a year to be able to run again. My legs were strong before the bad run, but after they were like jelly for months on end. It didn’t make sense lol. Got back into it though, just became a walking and hiking fiend in the meantime. People in my apartments knew I’d walk like 5 miles a day lol
The worst part for me is psychological, it can be really frustrating and destroy your confidence, which can lead to more bad decisions. Take it easy, don’t do too much or too little, and most importantly, always keep doing strength work.
Depends how serious it is. One time it only took a week or two to feel normal, another more recent stretch took 6mo and I’m still feeling the effects a year later at times
One week if I catch it early (heavy legs, general fatigue, some low level but annoying tendon issues is the usual manifestation). Cut volume to 30% max, all easy runs or just don't run. Eat 50% more calories of good quality food (protein and carbs especially) than usual. Then bring volume back to 70% all easy, then 100% all easy, then bring back intensity. I stumbled on this fix traveling for Thanksgiving week and it has worked every time since.
I ran into this mid marathon block. I took a couple of weeks down (no long run and only easy runs). Then I got covid, did two additional weeks of only a couple of easy runs and a couple of easy sessions on a stationary bike. Was able to ramp back up quickly, hit my peak long run 3 weeks out, and hit my "B" goal on race day. Before the marathon block I had taken a couple of weeks completely off after ramping up my base mileage because of the same kind of feeling. I think that was the better approach but when you're about 8 weeks out from a marathon it's hard to do that.
I have. It happened when I tried increasing my volume. I would feel so tired everyday for about a week until I decided to take a couple of days off to then grind back gradually to where I was. I then made sure to prioritize sleep and I’m feeling so much better now. So yeah, sleeping is the key
That's not overtraining syndrome. You would have taken way longer to recover. You were just overreaching and since you didn't run through that for many weeks you avoided overtraining syndrome.
My CK was super elevated (like 2500?) two weeks after my last race of the season last year November, and didn't really feel like I was back to my usual self in training until like... March/April. I tried to train through a very stressful period where I was averaging 5-6hrs of sleep a night for 5-10k racing. Battled a string of illnesses (flu, had recurring strep) that winter, and had a really crummy check-in 8 mile race. But I'm feeling super fit right now coming into the end of my spring cycle, feeling like I might be in a place for a breakthrough. Edit: similar volumes, average 50-60mpw, and I'm a man in his mid-30s.
Iron, magnesium, calories/protein are all good things to take a closer look at
Take the rest of the month off (or at the very least a week or something) and start your training in July in earnest. If you're not feeling great and can't really pinpoint why, you shouldn't try to keep pushing and hope things improve. Your body is trying to tell you something and you're better off listening to it. Whenever I feel like you (and I've felt like you often) I take a few days off and I'm usually right as rain after a nice break
More than how the body feels, overtraining impact on the hormonal balance impacting mood and brain function is the key thing to monitor. I find I can handle 3-4 weeks of heavy “new peak” load after which my mood is completely off and it takes a bit of time (weeks) to get back. The lesson is to avoid those peaks lasting more than 2 weeks. Back off for a day or three. Look at your training design and recovery and make sure you have enough variety (speed, strength, surface, length). If you are not getting enjoyment from running, don’t do it. The world won’t end. Cross train in the meanwhile if you’re up to it.
I did in winter of 2023. Way too many tempo/threshold runs in a short timespan with too little recovery in between them. Resulted in a nasty case of groin strain and recurrence of IT band syndrome. Deloading for a few weeks and doing only slow, easy runs did the trick. Actually this also improved my fitness more than this period of overtraining o.O ( or maybe the body was only then able to recover and create all the adaptations).
Um, yes. I gave myself some sort of knee strain or runner's knee last fall. Took me a good six months to be able to run again without pain - put me back quite a bit on my endurance, but I think I am back to where I was. I generally tend to run through soreness and such, but this felt BAD and wrong. I set my weekly mileage too high too quickly, and the results were not worth it. Maybe ease up a bit, eat more, drink more, and work on weight training.
Most people overtrain at some point then learn how to train more sustainably. How long have you been training for? Diet? My advice is to gradually build up mileage until you can do 4-5 days easy and 2 tempo, with a sunday long run. Strength and mobility is important and eat lots, fuel on long runs.
Stop running for few weeks
That’s not overtraining. Just check your life stressors and work through it. Here’s perspective: I overtrained. Former D1 athlete. After an 18 month injury in college where I avg’d maybe 2-3 hrs a week of cardio, I ramped up in the summer to the final 3 weeks of 130mi/wk (almost every day 15-20mi long runs a high to low 6’s per mile, with some 5’) in a matter of 3 months. Early in the fall, 4:50 mile repeats on grass started feeling conversational on 60s rest. But I didn’t eat enough, didn’t know how to fuel around runs, at the tail end I started dating a girl who kept me up till 2-3am most nights and wanted crazy amount of seggs. Broke up w her. Psychologically got really depressed and suddenly felt fully lactic running 6:30 pace and couldn’t even manage a couple miles some days without sitting down and wanted to fall asleep on the sidewalk and never get up again. Iron (ferritin levels) tanked. Had to take iron for months. That shit took me 5 months to feel somewhat normal and I had to run only 30mi/week while I was recovering. It’s pretty hard to overtrain but if you’re psychotic it’s possible.
Yep. In my case, life stress caught up to me. I just took about 1.5 months off and focused on weight training and just relaxing when I wasn’t working.
Only under recovered
As others have alluded to, overtraining is often due to stress which is due to poor sleep and nutrition. Take some down weeks and reset. Whenever I've been overtrained I would take 2-3 weeks off after the season (no running), then typically come back stronger. Some of it is psychological too. It sounds like you might need a psychical and mental break.
Check your iron levels?
If it takes less than a month you weren’t overtrained, you were just tired. Overtraining is a very serious issue and I don’t like to see it be trivialized by people just being drama queens. See a doctor if you think something really is wrong.
Not being a drama queen? Just asking a question to the community on reddit.
I wasn’t referring to you specifically, just a lot of amateur athletes self diagnosing.
Can confirm it takes well over a month of complete rest to recover from overtraining syndrome. :( Do you happen to know how long it takes?
Long enough that it can be career defining in pro athletes. Or just a month or so.
Brother I ran track from middle school all through college over training is common. Just gotta be smart about recovery and when to say when
I overtrain at least once per month or two. Takes me 2-4 days of easy/recovery runs along with couple of 10+ hours of overnight sleeps to recuperate. Also, it helps if I can squeeze in a nice 16-24h intermittent fast of which most of it is just a base metabolism couch/sleep, followed by a nice salty broth soup and cooked meal (ie.steak + vegetblees) without sugar/desert. p.s. M45 @ 60-75 MPW. Running every day. p.s2. I would not even signup/train for a marathon unless I'd have 55+ MPW base for at least 3/4 of a year (but that is just me - take it as it is).
I made a post with a reference higher up, but no, you do not suffer from complex, multi-system dysfunction "once or twice a month". You are just getting tired. (And suggesting over fatigued runners should fast is laughable)
Excuse me, I didn't realise OP was talking about "complex, multi-system dysfunction". Did we read the same post? Maybe check.. Anyways, now that I've read it again more carefully, I'm pretty sure OP just has a classic prolongued DOMS and lack of motivation due to the fact. Probably from too hard workouts on a low volume, IDK. As for my case, I do definitely get overtrained & overfatigued which is a synonyme for endurance athletes who train their base for 90% of 365 calendar days. I am in running for 20+ years and know how my body works, thank you very much. About intermittent fasting, won't even try to argue, I'll just put a "broscience" google result - you can google for an actual studies and educate yourself properly: "Studies show that intermittent fasting stimulates the production of ketones, which act as an energy source for neurons. Upon the release of these ketones our bodies increase the number of mitochondria in our neurons, which are responsible for taking in nutrients and creating energy."
(Not who you were replying to) They’re talking about overtraining syndrome, which is not the same as going hard for a couple days or being tired here and there. And intermittent fasting is not backed up by science, and definitely is not a good idea for runners.
Look, the overall consensus in the thread is that the OP does not have any shape or form of an overtraining syndrome, he just randomly wrote the term in the topic due to the ignorance or a bait (?), yet (CodeBrown) jumped on top of everyones responses like the whole topic is some super scientific/medical discussion about overtraining syndrome. It isn't. OP just superficially started the typical - "I'm tired, boss" - topic. Read the OP carefully and you'll see. OP doesn't have a clue. It is like someone throws a to complain about the pimple and your response becomes a lecture on what different types of cancers might it be. Pretty absurd. Also, I invite you to read my original resonse where I mentioned overtaining (as a verb), not a noun of a condition or sympthom(s). Finally, I.F. is definitely backed by science (medicine and molecularbiologist). It is just not backed by running PT's, the ednurance sport "fuel industry" and overall mindset of running for speed/fitness/olympics.
When you mention overtraining in this sub, they’re going to think you’re referring to the syndrome. It’s confusing to use the term if you/OP just mean “tired”. Intermittent fasting - there were some promising studies initially, but since then they’ve had bigger, better quality studies that ruled out a lot of those supposed benefits. I’m happy to change my mind if you have recent, quality studies that show otherwise.
Your volume isn't even high. How is your recovery? Sleep? Nutrition? Are you also working a physically demanding job? Is the weather hot and humid where you live?
General work/life stress plays a huge part. I’ve had 30 mile weeks without any workouts that were tougher to get through than 45-50 mile weeks.
This is quite literally me right now. I was crushing 40 mile weeks, then had a work trip where I was working from wakeup to sleep time in the hotel. Now I'm back and trying to get everything at work and at home caught back up while preparing for another trip next week. This week is probably going to clock in just under 30 miles with easier quality days and is gonna be the hardest of my entire training block.
Keep at it! You’ll be happy once you get to the other side.
Definitely! Thankfully, I'm not letting running compound my stress. I've known this week had the potential to be a mess for the last month or so, so I was prepared. I also love the health stats on my watch because they give me something to double check my perceived feelings to see if something's actually up with my training, or I just bit off a little more than I should have outside of training.
I know my volume is low, but it’s all I can squeeze in without causing inconvenience to others. Recovery is good. Sleep is okay 6-8 hours a week. Nutrition is okay, but could be better. It’s hot and humid now, but I was starting to feel this way in the spring, but maybe it is an acclimation thing. Your comment is a good reminder to take another review of everything.
Lowkey feel like this sub is toxic sometimes lol because 30-50 is v normal to high for even “advanced” marathon runners. Not all us have to be elites running 100+ mpw to be considered advanced
Thanks for saying that. I know two people in real life who hit 90-100+ and they are the outliers. Every other runner in my club and elsewhere in my life runs between 10-60 mpw. I feel like I’m on the average to high end out of all the serious “recreational” that I know.
No problem! I think it can be discouraging when people minimize how difficult even hitting that 30 mpw metric is. Good luck with your training! Summer running is hard, I’m sure with proper recovery and sleep you’ll be feeling better on your runs :)
Agreed...
Your volume isn't low either. It just is not high enough to explain constantly feeling tired and demotivated even after lowering intensity (assuming you did not suddenly jump from 20 mpw to 40 mpw).