He was happy, accepting who he was. He even talks about this very thing. How do I get over there? You are already there. Your self and the present moment is what you are meant to accept. Not change it or overcome it.
It's a myth that we receive an illumination and are completely happy, free of all ills, suddenly cease to be human and become this perfect, Godly creation. We're already a Godly creation, warts and all. Shadow side, light side... We are not one of those things, we are a blending of everything. Good, bad and indifferent. Both can be true at the same time: he was a terrific philosopher and struggled with an addiction.
We don't know if he struggled or not, only Alan knows that, but point taken. In any event, one of his children once said he was so drunk at the end of his life they often had to help him on stage, but once he was on, he was on. So there were struggles, but not to debate here whose and what kind.
Your concern reflects a common understanding of happiness and suffering, one deeply rooted in the dualistic thinking that Watts often challenged.
He viewed the nature of existence as a dance of opposites, where pleasure and pain, health and illness, life and death, are intrinsically linked.
Watts might suggest that labeling an alcoholic's life as 'difficult' or 'unnatural' is to misunderstand the broader picture of human experience. He would likely emphasize that every individual's journey, no matter how seemingly destructive, is part of the unfolding of the universe.
The alcoholic's reliance on alcohol, from a non-dualistic perspective, is neither more nor less natural than any other human behavior.
His works are worth a re-read. Pay particular attention to his call to let life be easy. If you have to pretend and struggle, your piety (in this case, sobriety) is just theater.
I've read a bit of what you've posted. Not all of it, but I think I've read enough to throw in my two cents. Who you think Alan Watts was, is wrong. Not in that there wasn't a man named Alan Watts, and he wasn't a swinging kind of a cat, but you didn't know him, and even if you did personally, you still didn't know what it was like to be him.
Whether he was a drug addicted dilutional idiot, or a wise sage one step about from true complete self-mastery is irrelevant. You can learn the most valuable things from hypocrites and ass holes. The question is, why care?
And, if anything, it should be encouraging. We have such a head start if you aren't suffering from a disease such as alcoholism. That he did everything he did, with such a burden, what is our excuse? If a drink makes you live in the present, then drink. And maybe that's how it was for him.
All that said, I didn't know either, and felt exactly as you did while reading your initial post. It wasn't until I came to the comments did I decide to hop on the contrarian bandwagon to seem so very wise! xD
The fact so many people are engaging with this means you did well sparking our need to communicate. Nice work!!
Oh, and he mentioned once, the most important question to ask oneself is "why shouldn't I commit suicide?". Maybe alcohol was necessary for him to carry on. So, in that way, we should thank our lucky stars he was an alcoholic! You don't get the best version of Alan Watts without it? We'll never know.
Alcoholism is a disease, not something to simply let go. Like a cancer or a physical injury, you accept the fate as it is and do what you can.
We don’t know what he may have been doing to fix it. We don’t know if he felt it needed to be fixed.
Alcoholism is a disease, not a vice. So replace "alcoholism" in your post with "cancer" and see how it reads differently.
More importantly though, Alan Watts was never preaching self-improvement. He was promulgating self-understanding. He never claimed to be anything other than a rascal and philosophical entertainer. He was one of the least hypocritical teachers in history because he never prescribed any sort of behavior. He just was. No issue at all with him being an alcoholic.
This is a lot of words to tell us that he was what he was.
I think if people heard how he died, BEFORE they heard his spiel and were blinded by mystical charisma, they wouldn't take him seriously..
I think you completely miss the point.
I really encourage you to read about the nature of addiction and its relation with psychological trauma. I’m thinking about Freud and Jung.
I mean, Aristotle thought that earthquakes were caused by underground winds, but it doesn’t mean that he was stupid or that we shouldn’t read and think about his philosophy.
but if Aristotle died from Syphillis from visiting Greece's whorehouses on the regular, I would think twice before listening to him
listen I'm not saying Alan Watts wasn't a great soul. All I'm saying is if he was so smart, why couldn't he save himself from himself?
It's easy to give advice. its hard to take it
Muuuuuuch like Stuart Wilde! I believe that men tend to function soooo much better as “alcoholics” (and also- funny enough- so much worse, so maybe they just pique the spectrum lol) than women. Which is so sad. I am unpacking my own relationship to alcohol and being a woman in many “feminine” capacities. Alcohol has helped me understand and connect with men who I desperately long to be connected with (most non sexually btw I am monogamous by preference and lifestyle)- it breaks my heart and any insight helps.
Alan himself once spoke of gurus who smoked cigarettes and drank whiskey, and people's reactions to this behavior. Alan said, "They have to have some kind of vice to ground them to this world. Otherwise, they'd float away!"
I know he was making light of the situation, but I think he had a point, in a way. We all have our vices. Human life is rough. As someone who is no longer an alcoholic, I understand how one gets to that place in the addiction. I wasn't far away from his fate, myself, when I quit.
I wasn't aware but we all have our vices. There's no yin without yang. There always has to be balance. I am pretty sad that he went through that though. I hope his will is carried onto his next life and so on.
“My vocation in life is to wonder about at the nature of the universe. This leads me into philosophy, psychology, religion, and mysticism, not only as subjects to be discussed but also as things to be experienced, and thus I make an at least tacit claim to be a philosopher and a mystic. Some people, therefore, expect me to be their guru or messiah or exemplar, and are extremely disconcerted when they discover my “wayward spirit” or element of irreducible rascality, and say to their friends, “How could he possibly be a genuine mystic and be so addicted to nicotine and alcohol?” Or have occasional shudders of anxiety? Or be sexually interested in women? Or lack enthusiasm for physical exercise? Or have any need for money? Such people have in mind an idealized vision of the mystic as a person wholly free from fear and attachment, who sees within and without, and on all sides, only the translucent forms of a single divine energy which is everlasting love and delight, as which and from which he effortlessly radiates peace, charity, and joy. What an enviable situation! We, too, would like to be one of those, but as we start to meditate and look into ourselves we find mostly a quaking and palpitating mess of anxiety which lusts and loathes, needs love and attention, and lives in terror of death putting an end to its misery. So we despise that mess, and look for ways of controlling it and putting “how the true mystic feels” in its place, not realizing that this ambition is simply one of the lusts of the quaking mess, and that this, in turn, is a natural form of the universe like rain and frost, slugs and snails, flies and disease. When the “true mystic” sees flies and disease as translucent forms of the divine, that does not abolish them. I—making no hard-and-fast distinction between inner and outer experience—see my quaking mess as a form of the divine, and that doesn’t abolish it either. But at least I can live with it.”
Alan W. Watts, In My Own Way: An Autobiography
I think the fact that he DID die from alcoholism is what made his teachings even more real, even more him. He went out his own way, he didn’t try to become something he was not, which made this even truer to his teachings. I think people try to idolise people too much and try to make any idol some perfect figure so that they then have a path to follow so it makes it easier to cast responsibilyty onto another person or ideology. this is why so many people are religious as it’s a surefire set of guidelines making it easy to follow. So that people don’t have to make choices and don’t feel the burden of regret. .Alan watts was a human, just like us. Not any better or any worse than you. People have their vices and that’s alright. Nobody is perfect and in accepting that u become human. That was what he preached anyway and so in that sense he did follow his principles to the very end and i respect that.
Consider: you may be taking 2024 logic / knowledge / world views and applying them to a person who adulted in the 1940-70s.
Did we kinda know drinking a bunch was bad for us in the 50’s? Kinda…but not the proof we have now. We didn’t have the educational material we have now. Didn’t have the warning labels or the culture shift away from constant inebriation. It was a different time.
All that said, Watts told stories of how he saw reality. He told you he wasn’t a guru or a cult leader. But many people insisted he was….and it’s even worse now on YouTube with jazzed up music and stylized photos.
He lived for experience. Alcohol was unfortunately part of the way he experienced life.
I would agree that some of Watts’ personal pedigree ranges from unfortunate to gross. But I also try to judge the content of his lectures, books, etc at face value…
I sit on a cushion and try to prove him right or wrong.
Drunk or not…he saw reality much more clearly than most. And was one of the most eloquent people of his generation. When those two things align…there is always a bit of madness with the genius. It’s the way we humans work at the boundaries of what is possible.
He led a stressful life in his later years, he was a writer after all
“Quite apart from his marriage, Watts was living under considerable tension. There was Dorothy's alimony and the cost of maintaining her five children and paying their medical expenses, in addition to the living expenses of Jano and himself (and Jano, on occasion, was given to wild bursts of spending). The life of a freelance writer is a notoriously anxious one, even for those with a modest number of dependents; for Watts to meet his financial commitments meant a life of almost unceasing industry: writing, lecturing, broadcasting, appearing on television, traveling to speak on university campuses, or going abroad to take part in other talks and television appearances. The periods of idleness, which for
Watts permitted inner development and change, became fewer and fewer.” - from the book Zen Effect: The Life of Alan Watts by Monica Furlong
You're downvoted but I agree. It seems like Watts didn't fit into the system. Not saying capitalism is bad, but if it's true he had to stress about medical expenses for his family, especially kids. That stress could ofc fuel his drinking problem.
I wonder if or how he could be so calm and talk so nicely if he had stress to make lots of money from it.
Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But, since no one was listening, everything must be said again
-- Andre Gide
Also, welcome to the internet... It's just gonna be this forever
It’s not that no one is listening, this is a new discussion with people new to the circle. If every conversation has already been said we should kill ourselves and be done with it
Its a useful conversation to have even if it is every 3 months.
To talk about flaws, self medication, and so on is something worth reminding ourselves on
This idea that people with interesting and profound things to say need to be 100% perfectly operating humans with no faults is pretty stupid. This point seems clear even without getting into philosophical semantics on what the 'best' or 'better' life would look like. Who's to say?
Also drinking some liquor and enjoying life who cares... life's for living.
I think alcoholics end up with a lot of association with domestic violence etc but he spent a lot of time in Japan, and being drunk isn't viewed negatively there, it's more of a happy jolly having fun kinda thing (obviously I'm speaking generally about a country here, there will be examples that disagree with generalizations over a large population)
Also can we like pin some reasonable responses to this question haha it's a little bit of a repeat topic here and I feel people who ask it really could listen and learn a lot more from Alan's works before they ask haha
We remain in a state of duality. For instance, if you consider drinking alcohol unnecessary, you might view someone as less perfect despite their remarkable teachings. This judgment comes from the ego and its ideas. Remember, we are not the body; we are pure awareness. Even this concept is just an idea. The notion that "I am not the body" actually reinforces the idea of the body, which is merely a state of mind. The body may have certain habits until it dies, but it cannot survive a moment without awareness.
Within the body, there is a current of energy, affection, and intelligence that guides, maintains, and energizes it. Discover this current and stay with it. Remember, we are taught to look within, not outside.
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Forgive me for paraphrasing, maybe it’s my own misunderstanding.. but I recall hearing a conversation between him and ram das that caused them to stop being friends, he told ram das “you know dick, you’re too attached to nothingness”
Clinging to nothing is still clinging, therefore “it’s not what you do, it’s how you do it”
He also use to get helicoptered from lecture to lecture in his peak. Everyone’s got their own battles and demons. His mind was so deep in thoughts that were so complex that as I listen to him speak on any topic in his unbelievable detail and perspective.
It’s obvious that his mind and how it works would be a prison and as much as it is beautiful and amazing for us to hear him break it down and articulate his philosophies, for him it must of been a dark hardcore prison that would of been pure torture and painful at times.
His lecture on life after death saved me from taking my life. I was moments away from checking out and I was scrolling YouTube searching for motivation and that final rational justification for the decision i was about to finally make after 1.5yrs of hell. And I must of been searching something about death and life after death and a short 6/8min clip came up of his which I listened to and changed my life at that very moment.
Thank you Alan watts for sharing your thoughts and ideas with the world. I’m sure he’s saved a lot of people 🙏
Here is the link to the exact clip I am talking about. It’s not just Alan but yeah…. Hope it reaches anyone who needs to hear this
[death is an illusion](https://youtu.be/Zf8PWSQaEwY?si=K3Kv7wbt_W9gv4OJ)
A story goes something like: Zen master and his student attend the death of a dear friend. The master maintains his composure throughout the funeral proceedings, along with his student. At the end of the ceremony attendees pass by the deceased at which time the master wails and cries for the loss, falling to the floor.
Returning home, the student is shocked by the display of his teacher and cannot resist the question: "Teacher, your behaviour back there was quite dissimilar from what you have alway taught. Is there some explanation for your crying and wailing? It seemed most inappropriate and contradictory."
The teacher turned to his student, "Because I chose to".
Well he was a pretty good drunk he still functioned enough hammered to make us rethink everything we think we know lol even if he was wise he was still human if he enjoyed the present moment with a drink I guess so be it we all have our vices
It’s part of his human-heartedness… his element of irreducible rascality. As he might say: “goodie goodies are the thieves of virtue.” His love of the drink was simply an expression of a certain selfishness and love of material things that is incredibly human.
I say this all as a former problem drinker who is now sober. Like me, I imagine his relationship with alcohol was complex. I drank for selfish reasons, I quit drinking for selfish reasons. He didn’t make the same decision and had a different type of experience. In the end he died just like everyone else. He is human.
My role here as often as I see the topic is to remind of Alan's quote "How can I surrender myself, when myself is precisely and urge to hold on, to cling? To cling to life, to continue to survive? I can see rationally that, by clinging to myself, I may strangle myself.
**I may be like a person who has a bad habit, as a result of which he is committing suicide. And he knows that, but can’t give it up because the means of death are so sweet**."
Have you heard of the study on dolphins that shows that in a toxic environment AND for fun dolphins will use blowfish poison to intoxicate themselves? I believe Mr Watts’ awareness functioned like a dolphin’s. So many of ours do. Don’t be hard on yourselves folks and if you DO lean on alcohol, do anything you can to find community and to lean a little less hard.
We’ve socially problematized alcohol but addiction (including to alcohol) is SOOOOO grossly misunderstood it’s almost not meaningful to type about because the discussion is so f***ing lengthy. Definitely does exist and Alan Watts by all accounts fits the descrips. BUT there’s other bits of the convo that need to happen before a rounded understanding can be reached about what is going on with people and what to do about it/how to interpret it.
Namaste OP. It's a case of Shree Alan Watts not mastering his own teachings, let alone the vast knowledge he learned across his life.
"For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his very mind will be the greatest enemy" Shree Krishna, The Bhagvad Gita
He talks about how people will be confused by how zen master may smoke or drink, the answer is simple really we are all human and have vices to enjoy lol
He made it painfully clear he was a philosophical entertainer, not a guru or holyman. He enjoyed speaking of “these things” and should you like to stop and listen, then great.
He also spoke of those, who would travel to live with gurus or at temples and such. They were expecting a holy man in charge, above smoking cigarettes, having sexual relationships, or loosing their tempers only to find out they did all that stuff and be completely “scandalized” by it. He said the point wasn’t to be holier than tho, in fact, if they gave up their vices they’d simply cease to exist. It’s what makes them the individual.
Let’s say the holy man is never supposed to not loose his temper. Let’s say you poked and prodded the man endlessly to see when he loses it. It’s not a test of patience but one of insensitivity, if the man doesn’t react, he may as well be dead.
I’ve often wondered about this.
As someone who appreciates him, it’s hard to understand. I think most people (including myself) look at Alan as someone who has either a. figured it out, b. fully acknowledges he hasn’t figured it out.
He has wisdom. And if neither of those above has helped him to overcome his issues is there hope for us? Yes, he is human I suppose and perhaps I expect too much.
Not every zen teacher is a master. I use what resonates from a particular teacher and move on.
I find myself coming back to his recordings for his voice, his candor, and his laugh. It's a nice reboot. Info is still pertinent today, if not more so.
I get that. I think it’s just hard for me to understand someone being a heavy drinker without causing some kind of harm to themselves or others and still be content with their quality of life. I’ve never witnessed or heard of it
Alan Watts was indeed an alcoholic but we shouldn't judge him for that. He always referred to himself as a "spiritual entertainer". He simplified the eastern philosophical concepts to the west.
Alan Watts was deeply knowledgeable and philosophical. But knowing is different from being. He had his highs and lows. He once said "I don't drink like a normal person. I drink like a Zen Buddhist". He used this analogy to highlight his philosophical approach to drinking, suggesting that he approached it with mindfulness and presence, rather than merely indulging in it thoughtlessly. This reflects his broader philosophy of being fully present and engaged with life, no matter the activity.
Just remember that he wasn't perfect but the best part is, he didn't need to be. We all have our imperfections unless you're perfect Buddha.
I mean to be an alcoholic but with dedication and to be an alcoholic and beeing misrable is too different things in my opinion. I mean its possible to be a happy alcoholic. Like know what you do to yourself but be fine with it because you live a happy live and just drink too much. Where as a misrable alcoholic is not fine with it and is constantly trying to change it but fails.
Also I wonder if op has done any actual exploration of Buddhism. A basic understanding of 2/4 noble truths would have helped op answer their own question
I cannot remember where, maybe it’s famous, maybe not but I heard something to the effect of “you’re not looking for a ____, you’re looking for a Messiah” when we judge the flaws of others and discount their positives because of their negatives.
He was very clear about his habits, and the Tao is the Tao, no sense in resisting the experience of craving a beverage if that is what the body wants- especially if you’ve come to the conclusion that this reality is an illusion anyway, so why resist? Why cling to life? He knew what he was doing, and he was okay with it. He also loved life and had a zest for it. Zen just has a funny way of presenting itself sometimes.
You know for people who think too much - sometimes booze or drugs is there go to in the evenings to switch off their minds.
I've used it as a release many times and I do fear issues with alcohol in the future (I take weeks off sometimes but go back to it under stress or when socialising)
That’s what makes him so special. He didn’t hold onto made up rules, he just lived life how he saw fit without hurting anyone (as far as I’m aware).
We don’t need to achieve some incredible discipline in life, or follow rules someone made up for us.
What we need to achieve is acceptance that we are human and we do human things. It’s as simple as that.
Not everyone is able to live up to the ideals others preach so just throw away any ideal and make up your own. There’s no use in saying doing this is a good thing and doing this is a bad thing.
Instead think about the impact on your surroundings your actions have.
If a songwriter writes a song that reaches into your soul and gives you a new perspective on your life, does it matter if they're an alcoholic?
If a writer writes a novel that does that for you, does it matter if they're an alcoholic?
If a filmmaker makes a movie, or a poet writes a poem, or a whatever does a whatever, does it matter if they were an alcoholic?
Some of the wisest, most inspirational people in history who changed the way the world looked at existence struggled with addictions. That's no reason to discount their viewpoints.
The way I see it, he understood life at a very fundamental universal level, and yet was surrounded by people that were stuck in the ‘symbolic’ world, chasing money and power, destroying each other and the planet - I wonder if this was a factor in his drinking… it’s like watching people running around in darkness while all the time carrying the light switch in their pockets, and nothing you say or do can convince them or change what they do - just my 2c
He drank himself to death all alone in a cabin in the middle of winter.
He wasn't perfect, he never pretended to be. For me that makes him all the more relatable.
The guy was a man of his era and lived a great life. The idea that he can’t be a flawed human and still have the ability to impart his special brand of wisdom is stupid.
Having a disease doesn’t mean you shouldn’t fight it. A lot of the responses on this topic seem to point to Mr Watts just accepting it. Me, personally, I think fighting is an inevitable task we must take on in order to experience joy/light
I think it was his way of dealing with death. He always went back to suicide as a philosophical question and if the game was worth the candle. He said there is nothing that says that you have to go on living and that there is no particular value to a longer life. I feel like it was a sucide of sorts. I’m a big fan of his words but who knows how Alan felt on the inside.
That’s the point. You are free. Free of judgement. You can do whatever the fuck you want. You are the creator. There is no right or wrong, you are free. Alcoholic or devout Christian, it doesn’t matter, you are free to choose. You are free
Lies all the lies.
First off, you will not die if you stop cold turkey. I have a friend who stopped after drinking for 5 years straight 2 bottles of vodka a day. Every day, I would remind them that "we are the sum total of our choices, choose wisely," through the power of choice is what we choose to become/believe. Not your family or teachers or friends, but you and i, our choices are our ownership of ours alone. They stopped cold turkey 2050 days ago.
There is no such thing as addiction it was created by the medical authorities to sell treatment. It's just another excuse made up by the weak mindedness that is in most humans.
The power for change and greatness is within each of us. Our duty is to figure out how to find that path. By reading the rode signs along the way to achieve the greatest version of our consciousness available to us in this universe.
Stay positive and believe in yourself always, my friend
Watts didn’t fear death which comes with spiritual awakening and lived fully as the true self or the awareness. The guy was a hedonist and delved fully into pleasure. The meaning of life is to live and that’s what he did. Plain and simple.
We don't know that that is what he died of. In fact his death is quite mysterious and seemed to be heavily planned by him.
Regardless. You have a preconceived notion that the altered state of consciousness of being drunk is bad or inherently unspiritual or something.
There's no reason to put any specific kind of judgement on this.
Just because you see things and understand doesn't make you divine as in a concept of being good.
Good and bad doesn't exist. And who are we to deny someones experience of life. Let them experience absolutely everything.
No one has to fit inside anyone's moral value. Not even you.
And we don't have enough information on why he had an addiction. And it couldn't have been otherwise and that is how it is.
I didn’t mean to imply it’s the worse death any human could go through. I didn’t make that clear but I thought that was obvious.
But downplaying death by alcoholism as “there are worse ways to go” is not a great message. I’ve heard some horror stories and I’m thankful I haven’t known anyone who’s gone down those roads to that degree.
Alcohol is a heavy/depressive drug, imo, that leads one away from zen, so, as I said, learning about his alcoholism was puzzling. If you’re so aware of how to quiet the “noise” of the mind, why get drunk? That being said, I’m also an advocate and avid cannabis user, so, I guess alcohol was to Watts as cannabis is to me. That’s still hard to understand though considering how harsh alcohol is on the mind and body. Maybe I’m being judgmental.
What makes you think that zen is about quieting the noise? What is your impression of what Alan believed to be the point of Zen? He talked about it extensively so it's easy to find if you haven't heard him talk about it yet. I believe knowing the answer to this question will answer your other question about his drinking.
I'll give you a hint: It can be found in the statement, which he made, "When it's time to eat, eat. When it's time to sleep, sleep."
It's also in his statement, "The thing to realize is that there's nothing to realize."
Now, contextualize his drinking in that way of thinking and it should all make sense.
Live in the present, without symbols. It's not, "When it's time to eat, have a conversation with another person, watch a few videos, and eat." It's, "When it's time to eat, eat." Don't also think. Just eat. Just do what you are doing.
I'll give you an example of how you can tell the difference. Have you ever gone to a nice restaurant with good food but you don't even remember the food because the conversation was engrossing? Now, have you ever cooked food at home and talked with whoever you were sharing it without about how good the food is? Didn't that both make you remember what you ate but also elevated the experience? That's the function of just doing. I realize there's more going on in the example than in the "eat, eat" statement but the point stands: focusing on what you are doing heightens the experience. It makes the mudane, extraordinary.
lol thank you i take things too literally at times so i was doubting myself wondering if the quote wasn’t as simple as it was. i love whatever i hear from watts, i need to get started on his work. do you recommend any book/lecture to start with?
Watts himself gave talks about this sort of thing.
Plenty of gurus and shamans and so forth? They’re fat, they have a temper, they smoke cigarettes, etc.
Where is it inscribed that wisdom and truth cannot come from flawed people?
If not, none of it is possible to come from anyone.
Maybe the world needed a man like this to show us, you can still be an enlightened individual and have your vices as well.
We are humans after all. Or we are beings inhabiting human bodies here to figure out what we need to learn. Everyone’s body and mind are different, what is bad for one, could it not be okay for another? Who is to say his mind doesn’t function better with it? Did he reach the higher realms and relax more into his state and get these amazing thoughts and messages under the influence?
The spiritual community is full of people who think they know what is in the best interest for all, but I know in my heart how I feel and what I think when I am at my best. But never would I expect someone else to think the same as I. He was an amazing speaker and drinking alcohol doesn’t make him any less, it just makes him more relatable to people who may not be willing to give up what makes them happy in a pursuit of the optimal state of spirituality. It just further shows we can all get there and have fun too if that’s what we want.
Nisargadatta Maharaj, one of the greatest sages of the twentieth century/all time and indisputably as clear and ‘enlightened’ as it gets, was a heavy smoker and eventually succumbed to throat cancer (and never quit right up to the end). The body-mind unit will mechanistically do what it does as part of its natural process of expression, even if it’s hosting the Understanding in full self-awareness; personal vices are no reflection or detraction of that and this is another case of paying too much attention to the finger rather than the moon it’s pointing to.
Alcoholism is a disease. I don't get how being Zen overcomes a physical trait. I find that the people who can't understand this are the farthest from understanding his teachings. You are looking for a guru. He is not one. He was very happy with who he was and accepted himself. He never attempted to embody someone that would trick you into believing they are perfect. I'm not saying gurus do it out of malice and he even talks about gurus. He is not one.
We're here for an experience, not to be perfect. Our true selves are already perfeact, we know this. We're all experiencing the illusion of an imperfect experience.
I feel like religion really influenced the spiritual community to believe restricting themselves from hedonism will give them "points"... None of this matter, we can do whatever we want
People will people.
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He was happy, accepting who he was. He even talks about this very thing. How do I get over there? You are already there. Your self and the present moment is what you are meant to accept. Not change it or overcome it.
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It's a myth that we receive an illumination and are completely happy, free of all ills, suddenly cease to be human and become this perfect, Godly creation. We're already a Godly creation, warts and all. Shadow side, light side... We are not one of those things, we are a blending of everything. Good, bad and indifferent. Both can be true at the same time: he was a terrific philosopher and struggled with an addiction.
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He didn't struggle with addiction. It is the struggle that would cause suffering.
We don't know if he struggled or not, only Alan knows that, but point taken. In any event, one of his children once said he was so drunk at the end of his life they often had to help him on stage, but once he was on, he was on. So there were struggles, but not to debate here whose and what kind.
Your concern reflects a common understanding of happiness and suffering, one deeply rooted in the dualistic thinking that Watts often challenged. He viewed the nature of existence as a dance of opposites, where pleasure and pain, health and illness, life and death, are intrinsically linked. Watts might suggest that labeling an alcoholic's life as 'difficult' or 'unnatural' is to misunderstand the broader picture of human experience. He would likely emphasize that every individual's journey, no matter how seemingly destructive, is part of the unfolding of the universe. The alcoholic's reliance on alcohol, from a non-dualistic perspective, is neither more nor less natural than any other human behavior.
I think he probably did drink, but he probably didn't do it with the subconscious guilt that most people do when they consider themselves alcoholics.
Your understanding of alcoholism is limited and carries with it preconceived beliefs and judgments.
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They exist whether you believe it or not. Username should be more liked closed_seeker.
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Well adjusted is such a vague term. By who's standards?
I don't think all alcoholics are the same. Some get liver disease, and some dont.
His works are worth a re-read. Pay particular attention to his call to let life be easy. If you have to pretend and struggle, your piety (in this case, sobriety) is just theater.
Do what exactly? You’re already doing “it”. Whats the acceptable vice?
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Ever ocirred to you that it might not have been a pain to him?
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Yea and none of my friends are enlightened so I guess that isn't possible either.. .
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I've read a bit of what you've posted. Not all of it, but I think I've read enough to throw in my two cents. Who you think Alan Watts was, is wrong. Not in that there wasn't a man named Alan Watts, and he wasn't a swinging kind of a cat, but you didn't know him, and even if you did personally, you still didn't know what it was like to be him. Whether he was a drug addicted dilutional idiot, or a wise sage one step about from true complete self-mastery is irrelevant. You can learn the most valuable things from hypocrites and ass holes. The question is, why care? And, if anything, it should be encouraging. We have such a head start if you aren't suffering from a disease such as alcoholism. That he did everything he did, with such a burden, what is our excuse? If a drink makes you live in the present, then drink. And maybe that's how it was for him. All that said, I didn't know either, and felt exactly as you did while reading your initial post. It wasn't until I came to the comments did I decide to hop on the contrarian bandwagon to seem so very wise! xD The fact so many people are engaging with this means you did well sparking our need to communicate. Nice work!!
Oh, and he mentioned once, the most important question to ask oneself is "why shouldn't I commit suicide?". Maybe alcohol was necessary for him to carry on. So, in that way, we should thank our lucky stars he was an alcoholic! You don't get the best version of Alan Watts without it? We'll never know.
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Alcoholism is a disease, not something to simply let go. Like a cancer or a physical injury, you accept the fate as it is and do what you can. We don’t know what he may have been doing to fix it. We don’t know if he felt it needed to be fixed.
Alcoholism is a disease, not a vice. So replace "alcoholism" in your post with "cancer" and see how it reads differently. More importantly though, Alan Watts was never preaching self-improvement. He was promulgating self-understanding. He never claimed to be anything other than a rascal and philosophical entertainer. He was one of the least hypocritical teachers in history because he never prescribed any sort of behavior. He just was. No issue at all with him being an alcoholic.
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So spot on!
This is a lot of words to tell us that he was what he was. I think if people heard how he died, BEFORE they heard his spiel and were blinded by mystical charisma, they wouldn't take him seriously..
I think you completely miss the point. I really encourage you to read about the nature of addiction and its relation with psychological trauma. I’m thinking about Freud and Jung. I mean, Aristotle thought that earthquakes were caused by underground winds, but it doesn’t mean that he was stupid or that we shouldn’t read and think about his philosophy.
but if Aristotle died from Syphillis from visiting Greece's whorehouses on the regular, I would think twice before listening to him listen I'm not saying Alan Watts wasn't a great soul. All I'm saying is if he was so smart, why couldn't he save himself from himself? It's easy to give advice. its hard to take it
He was indeed an alcoholic, but it seemed to me to have no effect whatsoever on his ability to transmit teachings.
Probably helped. High functioning alcoholic.
Muuuuuuch like Stuart Wilde! I believe that men tend to function soooo much better as “alcoholics” (and also- funny enough- so much worse, so maybe they just pique the spectrum lol) than women. Which is so sad. I am unpacking my own relationship to alcohol and being a woman in many “feminine” capacities. Alcohol has helped me understand and connect with men who I desperately long to be connected with (most non sexually btw I am monogamous by preference and lifestyle)- it breaks my heart and any insight helps.
Alan himself once spoke of gurus who smoked cigarettes and drank whiskey, and people's reactions to this behavior. Alan said, "They have to have some kind of vice to ground them to this world. Otherwise, they'd float away!" I know he was making light of the situation, but I think he had a point, in a way. We all have our vices. Human life is rough. As someone who is no longer an alcoholic, I understand how one gets to that place in the addiction. I wasn't far away from his fate, myself, when I quit.
Came here for this. Also, he said you have to keep a little bit of rascal in you somewhere! Paraphrased, of course.
I wasn't aware but we all have our vices. There's no yin without yang. There always has to be balance. I am pretty sad that he went through that though. I hope his will is carried onto his next life and so on.
“My vocation in life is to wonder about at the nature of the universe. This leads me into philosophy, psychology, religion, and mysticism, not only as subjects to be discussed but also as things to be experienced, and thus I make an at least tacit claim to be a philosopher and a mystic. Some people, therefore, expect me to be their guru or messiah or exemplar, and are extremely disconcerted when they discover my “wayward spirit” or element of irreducible rascality, and say to their friends, “How could he possibly be a genuine mystic and be so addicted to nicotine and alcohol?” Or have occasional shudders of anxiety? Or be sexually interested in women? Or lack enthusiasm for physical exercise? Or have any need for money? Such people have in mind an idealized vision of the mystic as a person wholly free from fear and attachment, who sees within and without, and on all sides, only the translucent forms of a single divine energy which is everlasting love and delight, as which and from which he effortlessly radiates peace, charity, and joy. What an enviable situation! We, too, would like to be one of those, but as we start to meditate and look into ourselves we find mostly a quaking and palpitating mess of anxiety which lusts and loathes, needs love and attention, and lives in terror of death putting an end to its misery. So we despise that mess, and look for ways of controlling it and putting “how the true mystic feels” in its place, not realizing that this ambition is simply one of the lusts of the quaking mess, and that this, in turn, is a natural form of the universe like rain and frost, slugs and snails, flies and disease. When the “true mystic” sees flies and disease as translucent forms of the divine, that does not abolish them. I—making no hard-and-fast distinction between inner and outer experience—see my quaking mess as a form of the divine, and that doesn’t abolish it either. But at least I can live with it.” Alan W. Watts, In My Own Way: An Autobiography
Awareness doesn’t mean immunity.
I think the fact that he DID die from alcoholism is what made his teachings even more real, even more him. He went out his own way, he didn’t try to become something he was not, which made this even truer to his teachings. I think people try to idolise people too much and try to make any idol some perfect figure so that they then have a path to follow so it makes it easier to cast responsibilyty onto another person or ideology. this is why so many people are religious as it’s a surefire set of guidelines making it easy to follow. So that people don’t have to make choices and don’t feel the burden of regret. .Alan watts was a human, just like us. Not any better or any worse than you. People have their vices and that’s alright. Nobody is perfect and in accepting that u become human. That was what he preached anyway and so in that sense he did follow his principles to the very end and i respect that.
Consider: you may be taking 2024 logic / knowledge / world views and applying them to a person who adulted in the 1940-70s. Did we kinda know drinking a bunch was bad for us in the 50’s? Kinda…but not the proof we have now. We didn’t have the educational material we have now. Didn’t have the warning labels or the culture shift away from constant inebriation. It was a different time. All that said, Watts told stories of how he saw reality. He told you he wasn’t a guru or a cult leader. But many people insisted he was….and it’s even worse now on YouTube with jazzed up music and stylized photos. He lived for experience. Alcohol was unfortunately part of the way he experienced life. I would agree that some of Watts’ personal pedigree ranges from unfortunate to gross. But I also try to judge the content of his lectures, books, etc at face value… I sit on a cushion and try to prove him right or wrong. Drunk or not…he saw reality much more clearly than most. And was one of the most eloquent people of his generation. When those two things align…there is always a bit of madness with the genius. It’s the way we humans work at the boundaries of what is possible.
If you care about this you weren't listening to what he said...
He never claimed to be a saint. He said his lectures and texts were for entertainment purposes only.
I know a lot of people who are only happy when they're not sober I know a lot of sober people who aren't happy at all
I'm a recovered alcoholic who loves Alan Watts. I'm just glad he lived and transmitted teachings in a way we can still access and use
He led a stressful life in his later years, he was a writer after all “Quite apart from his marriage, Watts was living under considerable tension. There was Dorothy's alimony and the cost of maintaining her five children and paying their medical expenses, in addition to the living expenses of Jano and himself (and Jano, on occasion, was given to wild bursts of spending). The life of a freelance writer is a notoriously anxious one, even for those with a modest number of dependents; for Watts to meet his financial commitments meant a life of almost unceasing industry: writing, lecturing, broadcasting, appearing on television, traveling to speak on university campuses, or going abroad to take part in other talks and television appearances. The periods of idleness, which for Watts permitted inner development and change, became fewer and fewer.” - from the book Zen Effect: The Life of Alan Watts by Monica Furlong
For me, this translates to capitalism drove him to drink.
You're downvoted but I agree. It seems like Watts didn't fit into the system. Not saying capitalism is bad, but if it's true he had to stress about medical expenses for his family, especially kids. That stress could ofc fuel his drinking problem. I wonder if or how he could be so calm and talk so nicely if he had stress to make lots of money from it.
I'll say it then: Capitalism is bad!
Try again
The need to work incessantly is a consequence of our modern capitalist system
This discussion has been beaten to death here. Not anything new to say.
Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But, since no one was listening, everything must be said again -- Andre Gide Also, welcome to the internet... It's just gonna be this forever
It’s not that no one is listening, this is a new discussion with people new to the circle. If every conversation has already been said we should kill ourselves and be done with it
Oooof This is r/AlanWatts my man Just flick that thumb a little bit more , you don't have to engage with everything
Then don’t participate.
Its a useful conversation to have even if it is every 3 months. To talk about flaws, self medication, and so on is something worth reminding ourselves on
This idea that people with interesting and profound things to say need to be 100% perfectly operating humans with no faults is pretty stupid. This point seems clear even without getting into philosophical semantics on what the 'best' or 'better' life would look like. Who's to say? Also drinking some liquor and enjoying life who cares... life's for living. I think alcoholics end up with a lot of association with domestic violence etc but he spent a lot of time in Japan, and being drunk isn't viewed negatively there, it's more of a happy jolly having fun kinda thing (obviously I'm speaking generally about a country here, there will be examples that disagree with generalizations over a large population) Also can we like pin some reasonable responses to this question haha it's a little bit of a repeat topic here and I feel people who ask it really could listen and learn a lot more from Alan's works before they ask haha
This is the correct and only answer.
We remain in a state of duality. For instance, if you consider drinking alcohol unnecessary, you might view someone as less perfect despite their remarkable teachings. This judgment comes from the ego and its ideas. Remember, we are not the body; we are pure awareness. Even this concept is just an idea. The notion that "I am not the body" actually reinforces the idea of the body, which is merely a state of mind. The body may have certain habits until it dies, but it cannot survive a moment without awareness. Within the body, there is a current of energy, affection, and intelligence that guides, maintains, and energizes it. Discover this current and stay with it. Remember, we are taught to look within, not outside. ---
Forgive me for paraphrasing, maybe it’s my own misunderstanding.. but I recall hearing a conversation between him and ram das that caused them to stop being friends, he told ram das “you know dick, you’re too attached to nothingness” Clinging to nothing is still clinging, therefore “it’s not what you do, it’s how you do it”
He also use to get helicoptered from lecture to lecture in his peak. Everyone’s got their own battles and demons. His mind was so deep in thoughts that were so complex that as I listen to him speak on any topic in his unbelievable detail and perspective. It’s obvious that his mind and how it works would be a prison and as much as it is beautiful and amazing for us to hear him break it down and articulate his philosophies, for him it must of been a dark hardcore prison that would of been pure torture and painful at times. His lecture on life after death saved me from taking my life. I was moments away from checking out and I was scrolling YouTube searching for motivation and that final rational justification for the decision i was about to finally make after 1.5yrs of hell. And I must of been searching something about death and life after death and a short 6/8min clip came up of his which I listened to and changed my life at that very moment. Thank you Alan watts for sharing your thoughts and ideas with the world. I’m sure he’s saved a lot of people 🙏 Here is the link to the exact clip I am talking about. It’s not just Alan but yeah…. Hope it reaches anyone who needs to hear this [death is an illusion](https://youtu.be/Zf8PWSQaEwY?si=K3Kv7wbt_W9gv4OJ)
A story goes something like: Zen master and his student attend the death of a dear friend. The master maintains his composure throughout the funeral proceedings, along with his student. At the end of the ceremony attendees pass by the deceased at which time the master wails and cries for the loss, falling to the floor. Returning home, the student is shocked by the display of his teacher and cannot resist the question: "Teacher, your behaviour back there was quite dissimilar from what you have alway taught. Is there some explanation for your crying and wailing? It seemed most inappropriate and contradictory." The teacher turned to his student, "Because I chose to".
Well he was a pretty good drunk he still functioned enough hammered to make us rethink everything we think we know lol even if he was wise he was still human if he enjoyed the present moment with a drink I guess so be it we all have our vices
Alan Watts was a wonderful speaker and entertainer, but much to our surprise, he was also human.
It’s part of his human-heartedness… his element of irreducible rascality. As he might say: “goodie goodies are the thieves of virtue.” His love of the drink was simply an expression of a certain selfishness and love of material things that is incredibly human. I say this all as a former problem drinker who is now sober. Like me, I imagine his relationship with alcohol was complex. I drank for selfish reasons, I quit drinking for selfish reasons. He didn’t make the same decision and had a different type of experience. In the end he died just like everyone else. He is human.
My role here as often as I see the topic is to remind of Alan's quote "How can I surrender myself, when myself is precisely and urge to hold on, to cling? To cling to life, to continue to survive? I can see rationally that, by clinging to myself, I may strangle myself. **I may be like a person who has a bad habit, as a result of which he is committing suicide. And he knows that, but can’t give it up because the means of death are so sweet**."
Have you heard of the study on dolphins that shows that in a toxic environment AND for fun dolphins will use blowfish poison to intoxicate themselves? I believe Mr Watts’ awareness functioned like a dolphin’s. So many of ours do. Don’t be hard on yourselves folks and if you DO lean on alcohol, do anything you can to find community and to lean a little less hard. We’ve socially problematized alcohol but addiction (including to alcohol) is SOOOOO grossly misunderstood it’s almost not meaningful to type about because the discussion is so f***ing lengthy. Definitely does exist and Alan Watts by all accounts fits the descrips. BUT there’s other bits of the convo that need to happen before a rounded understanding can be reached about what is going on with people and what to do about it/how to interpret it.
Namaste OP. It's a case of Shree Alan Watts not mastering his own teachings, let alone the vast knowledge he learned across his life. "For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his very mind will be the greatest enemy" Shree Krishna, The Bhagvad Gita
He talks about how people will be confused by how zen master may smoke or drink, the answer is simple really we are all human and have vices to enjoy lol
He made it painfully clear he was a philosophical entertainer, not a guru or holyman. He enjoyed speaking of “these things” and should you like to stop and listen, then great. He also spoke of those, who would travel to live with gurus or at temples and such. They were expecting a holy man in charge, above smoking cigarettes, having sexual relationships, or loosing their tempers only to find out they did all that stuff and be completely “scandalized” by it. He said the point wasn’t to be holier than tho, in fact, if they gave up their vices they’d simply cease to exist. It’s what makes them the individual. Let’s say the holy man is never supposed to not loose his temper. Let’s say you poked and prodded the man endlessly to see when he loses it. It’s not a test of patience but one of insensitivity, if the man doesn’t react, he may as well be dead.
I’ve often wondered about this. As someone who appreciates him, it’s hard to understand. I think most people (including myself) look at Alan as someone who has either a. figured it out, b. fully acknowledges he hasn’t figured it out. He has wisdom. And if neither of those above has helped him to overcome his issues is there hope for us? Yes, he is human I suppose and perhaps I expect too much.
Just because he understands it does not mean he always has full control over it
Not every zen teacher is a master. I use what resonates from a particular teacher and move on. I find myself coming back to his recordings for his voice, his candor, and his laugh. It's a nice reboot. Info is still pertinent today, if not more so.
I think he just liked drinking you don't have to live a very long life you know?
I get that. I think it’s just hard for me to understand someone being a heavy drinker without causing some kind of harm to themselves or others and still be content with their quality of life. I’ve never witnessed or heard of it
An entertainer
Essence of irreducible rascality
Alan Watts was indeed an alcoholic but we shouldn't judge him for that. He always referred to himself as a "spiritual entertainer". He simplified the eastern philosophical concepts to the west. Alan Watts was deeply knowledgeable and philosophical. But knowing is different from being. He had his highs and lows. He once said "I don't drink like a normal person. I drink like a Zen Buddhist". He used this analogy to highlight his philosophical approach to drinking, suggesting that he approached it with mindfulness and presence, rather than merely indulging in it thoughtlessly. This reflects his broader philosophy of being fully present and engaged with life, no matter the activity. Just remember that he wasn't perfect but the best part is, he didn't need to be. We all have our imperfections unless you're perfect Buddha.
I mean to be an alcoholic but with dedication and to be an alcoholic and beeing misrable is too different things in my opinion. I mean its possible to be a happy alcoholic. Like know what you do to yourself but be fine with it because you live a happy live and just drink too much. Where as a misrable alcoholic is not fine with it and is constantly trying to change it but fails.
An old koan touches on this very thing: “Why can’t even a clear eyed person cut the red thread that runs beneath our feet?”
Also I wonder if op has done any actual exploration of Buddhism. A basic understanding of 2/4 noble truths would have helped op answer their own question
I cannot remember where, maybe it’s famous, maybe not but I heard something to the effect of “you’re not looking for a ____, you’re looking for a Messiah” when we judge the flaws of others and discount their positives because of their negatives.
He was very clear about his habits, and the Tao is the Tao, no sense in resisting the experience of craving a beverage if that is what the body wants- especially if you’ve come to the conclusion that this reality is an illusion anyway, so why resist? Why cling to life? He knew what he was doing, and he was okay with it. He also loved life and had a zest for it. Zen just has a funny way of presenting itself sometimes.
Gotta have some vices
You know for people who think too much - sometimes booze or drugs is there go to in the evenings to switch off their minds. I've used it as a release many times and I do fear issues with alcohol in the future (I take weeks off sometimes but go back to it under stress or when socialising)
That’s what makes him so special. He didn’t hold onto made up rules, he just lived life how he saw fit without hurting anyone (as far as I’m aware). We don’t need to achieve some incredible discipline in life, or follow rules someone made up for us. What we need to achieve is acceptance that we are human and we do human things. It’s as simple as that. Not everyone is able to live up to the ideals others preach so just throw away any ideal and make up your own. There’s no use in saying doing this is a good thing and doing this is a bad thing. Instead think about the impact on your surroundings your actions have.
Now that explains why he is a dead-end for me. I still love listening to him but then there comes a point where he is just a dead-end.
everyone has flaws
If a songwriter writes a song that reaches into your soul and gives you a new perspective on your life, does it matter if they're an alcoholic? If a writer writes a novel that does that for you, does it matter if they're an alcoholic? If a filmmaker makes a movie, or a poet writes a poem, or a whatever does a whatever, does it matter if they were an alcoholic? Some of the wisest, most inspirational people in history who changed the way the world looked at existence struggled with addictions. That's no reason to discount their viewpoints.
The way I see it, he understood life at a very fundamental universal level, and yet was surrounded by people that were stuck in the ‘symbolic’ world, chasing money and power, destroying each other and the planet - I wonder if this was a factor in his drinking… it’s like watching people running around in darkness while all the time carrying the light switch in their pockets, and nothing you say or do can convince them or change what they do - just my 2c
Cuz he was a flawed human being like all of us
Doesn’t take anything away from his work. He was present all through out too, I’m sure. Cheers, Alan! You rascal, you! 🍻🍺🍷🥃🍶
Alan Watts thoroughly enjoyed life. This detracts nothing from his philosophy.
He drank himself to death all alone in a cabin in the middle of winter. He wasn't perfect, he never pretended to be. For me that makes him all the more relatable.
The guy was a man of his era and lived a great life. The idea that he can’t be a flawed human and still have the ability to impart his special brand of wisdom is stupid.
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Having a disease doesn’t mean you shouldn’t fight it. A lot of the responses on this topic seem to point to Mr Watts just accepting it. Me, personally, I think fighting is an inevitable task we must take on in order to experience joy/light
I think it was his way of dealing with death. He always went back to suicide as a philosophical question and if the game was worth the candle. He said there is nothing that says that you have to go on living and that there is no particular value to a longer life. I feel like it was a sucide of sorts. I’m a big fan of his words but who knows how Alan felt on the inside.
That’s the point. You are free. Free of judgement. You can do whatever the fuck you want. You are the creator. There is no right or wrong, you are free. Alcoholic or devout Christian, it doesn’t matter, you are free to choose. You are free
I understand but what about the actual quality of your life? I guess that’s all subjective and relative too.
Lies all the lies. First off, you will not die if you stop cold turkey. I have a friend who stopped after drinking for 5 years straight 2 bottles of vodka a day. Every day, I would remind them that "we are the sum total of our choices, choose wisely," through the power of choice is what we choose to become/believe. Not your family or teachers or friends, but you and i, our choices are our ownership of ours alone. They stopped cold turkey 2050 days ago. There is no such thing as addiction it was created by the medical authorities to sell treatment. It's just another excuse made up by the weak mindedness that is in most humans. The power for change and greatness is within each of us. Our duty is to figure out how to find that path. By reading the rode signs along the way to achieve the greatest version of our consciousness available to us in this universe. Stay positive and believe in yourself always, my friend
Watts didn’t fear death which comes with spiritual awakening and lived fully as the true self or the awareness. The guy was a hedonist and delved fully into pleasure. The meaning of life is to live and that’s what he did. Plain and simple.
We don't know that that is what he died of. In fact his death is quite mysterious and seemed to be heavily planned by him. Regardless. You have a preconceived notion that the altered state of consciousness of being drunk is bad or inherently unspiritual or something. There's no reason to put any specific kind of judgement on this.
The priest in The Exorcist smoked too
Dont mind his addictions, they are the things that kept him existing.
Just because you see things and understand doesn't make you divine as in a concept of being good. Good and bad doesn't exist. And who are we to deny someones experience of life. Let them experience absolutely everything. No one has to fit inside anyone's moral value. Not even you. And we don't have enough information on why he had an addiction. And it couldn't have been otherwise and that is how it is.
There are worse ways to die
Not from stories I’ve heard. I’m not sure of his particular ailments but alcoholism could lead to an extremely horrendous way to go out.
You have a whole lot of fun on the way down tho...
From the stories you’ve heard, there’s not any worse death? Surely there is.
I didn’t mean to imply it’s the worse death any human could go through. I didn’t make that clear but I thought that was obvious. But downplaying death by alcoholism as “there are worse ways to go” is not a great message. I’ve heard some horror stories and I’m thankful I haven’t known anyone who’s gone down those roads to that degree.
Oh liver disease is a horrible way to go. I actually believe he commited suicide and then had is body burnt so he skipped a lot of the worst
Why don't you tell us how you feel about him having been an alcoholic? How does that make you feel? Also, he died of cancer.
He died of heart failure
Alcohol is a heavy/depressive drug, imo, that leads one away from zen, so, as I said, learning about his alcoholism was puzzling. If you’re so aware of how to quiet the “noise” of the mind, why get drunk? That being said, I’m also an advocate and avid cannabis user, so, I guess alcohol was to Watts as cannabis is to me. That’s still hard to understand though considering how harsh alcohol is on the mind and body. Maybe I’m being judgmental.
What makes you think that zen is about quieting the noise? What is your impression of what Alan believed to be the point of Zen? He talked about it extensively so it's easy to find if you haven't heard him talk about it yet. I believe knowing the answer to this question will answer your other question about his drinking. I'll give you a hint: It can be found in the statement, which he made, "When it's time to eat, eat. When it's time to sleep, sleep." It's also in his statement, "The thing to realize is that there's nothing to realize." Now, contextualize his drinking in that way of thinking and it should all make sense.
can you explain that “when it’s time to eat” quote to me?
Live in the present, without symbols. It's not, "When it's time to eat, have a conversation with another person, watch a few videos, and eat." It's, "When it's time to eat, eat." Don't also think. Just eat. Just do what you are doing. I'll give you an example of how you can tell the difference. Have you ever gone to a nice restaurant with good food but you don't even remember the food because the conversation was engrossing? Now, have you ever cooked food at home and talked with whoever you were sharing it without about how good the food is? Didn't that both make you remember what you ate but also elevated the experience? That's the function of just doing. I realize there's more going on in the example than in the "eat, eat" statement but the point stands: focusing on what you are doing heightens the experience. It makes the mudane, extraordinary.
lol thank you i take things too literally at times so i was doubting myself wondering if the quote wasn’t as simple as it was. i love whatever i hear from watts, i need to get started on his work. do you recommend any book/lecture to start with?
Look up his lecture called [Zen Bones](https://youtu.be/Cxiex0rXD0s?si=YoOHI6x5-8V8ZE5T).
Just cause you know you need to integrate your shadow doesn't mean you've done it yet. Speaking from experience...
Alcoholism was his “anchor” to the real world.
Watts himself gave talks about this sort of thing. Plenty of gurus and shamans and so forth? They’re fat, they have a temper, they smoke cigarettes, etc. Where is it inscribed that wisdom and truth cannot come from flawed people? If not, none of it is possible to come from anyone.
Maybe the world needed a man like this to show us, you can still be an enlightened individual and have your vices as well. We are humans after all. Or we are beings inhabiting human bodies here to figure out what we need to learn. Everyone’s body and mind are different, what is bad for one, could it not be okay for another? Who is to say his mind doesn’t function better with it? Did he reach the higher realms and relax more into his state and get these amazing thoughts and messages under the influence? The spiritual community is full of people who think they know what is in the best interest for all, but I know in my heart how I feel and what I think when I am at my best. But never would I expect someone else to think the same as I. He was an amazing speaker and drinking alcohol doesn’t make him any less, it just makes him more relatable to people who may not be willing to give up what makes them happy in a pursuit of the optimal state of spirituality. It just further shows we can all get there and have fun too if that’s what we want.
He also did drugs, gave his kids drugs as soon as they turned 18 and used to horribly beat his wife. Was a major womanizer.
Nisargadatta Maharaj, one of the greatest sages of the twentieth century/all time and indisputably as clear and ‘enlightened’ as it gets, was a heavy smoker and eventually succumbed to throat cancer (and never quit right up to the end). The body-mind unit will mechanistically do what it does as part of its natural process of expression, even if it’s hosting the Understanding in full self-awareness; personal vices are no reflection or detraction of that and this is another case of paying too much attention to the finger rather than the moon it’s pointing to.
Alcoholism is a disease. I don't get how being Zen overcomes a physical trait. I find that the people who can't understand this are the farthest from understanding his teachings. You are looking for a guru. He is not one. He was very happy with who he was and accepted himself. He never attempted to embody someone that would trick you into believing they are perfect. I'm not saying gurus do it out of malice and he even talks about gurus. He is not one.
He was living in the now, man
We're here for an experience, not to be perfect. Our true selves are already perfeact, we know this. We're all experiencing the illusion of an imperfect experience.
only the internet says he died of alcoholism. imagine a human having an addiction, wow that's mind blowing, dude
I feel like religion really influenced the spiritual community to believe restricting themselves from hedonism will give them "points"... None of this matter, we can do whatever we want
Drinking is fun!
Until it isn’t