I think the issue is now widespread enough in urban areas nationally that the makers of these vehicles should be compelled on a federal level to implement tech that renders said vehicles inoperable (with no recourse for repair or modification if such tech exists). Essentially zoned remote gps disabling of the vehicle.
Such tech exists but is *easily* worked around. Making this tech fool proof is not realistic in any way. Anyone who is even a little motivated *will* be able to remove/bypass it in short order. This one's a non-starter. Good thought though.
Source: I'm a career cybersecurity professional who rode motorcycles for years and can maintain things with small engines.
People have been doing violently dumb stuff since the dawn of time. In the 1920's gangs of teenagers would roam the streets of NYC stomping on the hats of anyone caught wearing a straw hat after September 15th. In 1922 it culminated in a riot when teenagers clashed with dock workers. There were beatings, many arrests, and even a murder in 1924.
IDK, "civil" society has seemed like a lie to me. Like people are just following the path of least resistance and we're just nominally fortunate that sociopathic behavior isn't more common.
Ah yeah, because everything was just so darn civil 20, 50, or 100 years ago. We really had everything figured out back then!
Take me back to when women couldn’t vote, races were segregated, and you could be dragged off in the draft to die in one of several wars. You know, back when things were CIVIL!
Hell, America was SO civil they even used to name things civil. The civil war, the civil rights act…
I say 2015 is when I noticed the acceleration. Subs like /r/publicfreakout have amazing stats. And now you have the rise of r/ImTheMainCharacter/
There is a type of disassociation from mutuality that is happening and it's terrifying.
The people we need to hold accountable first are ourselves and our elected officials. The bike gangs aren't a unique Albany problem, it's been happening in major cities since the early 2000s. The longer we ignore our urban communities the worse things are going to get. Society has traditionally leaned on the police to keep everything running smoothly but now that unsustainable model is running itself out and it's time to look at treating causes instead of symptoms.
This provoked me to think about what may be the fundamental cause of the issue, so thank you.
I’m thinking that good behavior has to be incentivized. Policing tamps down on some - probably not that much - illegal activity. It’s positive incentives that shape the good behavior of a society.
So, why are people riding loud, fast dirt bikes where they shouldn’t? Maybe 1.) because it’s fun and 2.) because they’re trying to get somewhere.
So to displace the negative consequence of motive#1, we need more fun things - bike paths, free or cheap entertainment like skate parks and other thrills, some place to go ride dirt bikes for fun, or maybe other activities that displace loud, annoying dirt bikes anyways. I think there are endless ideas that could help.
To displace motive#2, we could use accessible bike paths that are engineered for safe speeds and separated from large vehicles as well as pedestrians. Electric bikes on these safe paths would be fast, quiet, and economical. A wide 2-way bike path takes up less space than a single car lane.
These are pie-in-the-sky ideals, but I figured it’s worth a minute to think about.
Years ago, when I began my previous career in the GPS industry, I read about a very interesting new product that was supposedly coming to market. In order to eliminate the need for car chases and the inherent risks, a company had essentially designed a GPS dart gun for police use. It would be grill mounted, with super strong suction cups (and I wonder now why an adhesive wouldn't have worked), and a small GPS receiver and cell chip to report its location. The software on the backend would be used to identify appropriate places for road blocks to head off the feeling suspect. To me it seemed like such a fantastic use of the technology and I expected it would be a success. Now, over 15 years later and we're still saying that we can't catch some assholes on dirt bikes. Fucking geo-dart those assholes and snare them.
Oh they could catch them, it’s just that the rider will be spending time at the hospital (or morgue) before jail and that’s why nothing is being done about it.
I imagine they're trying to avoid
Breaking: Albany Police cruiser runs down unarmed black teen on ATV.
...or local leaders told them not to
...or they refuse to do their job now in retribution for 2020 and ongoing sentiment.
No, they're trying to avoid killing an innocent civilian in a pointless police pursuit because they know there's no way they're gonna catch a bike in a car or suv
High speed chases are incredibly dangerous and the safety of other motorists and pedestrians must be balanced with the likelihood of success of these chases. You are very much correct that the police are unlikely to catch a bike with a car.
I witnessed a high speed chases of a gang of dirt bikers on central avenue in Colonie. It was terrifying. The gang of bikers was swerving around all the regular traffic and then the police cars were also swerving around traffic. Everyone was going more than 60 in a 40 mph zone that was full of civilian bystanders. It made my grateful that APD was not trying to pull that cowboy shit.
It's not just albany, I'm pretty sure it's even a federal recommendation.
Local police shouldn't chase obnoxious motorbike motorists, it's policy at tons of cop shops. The odds of them catching a motorbike in a sedan in a urban or semi urban setting are significantly lower than the odds of someone getting hurt during a chase. Or, even without someone getting hurt, the odds of property damage are probably greater than the cost of the ticket.
On top of it, it's a power struggle thing. In a sedan no cop is catching a dirt bike in downtown Albany, or most cities/towns. If they tried, they would often fail and it would appear embarrassing, and most likely inspire other people to do it more.
It's completely insane to me that the dirt bike situation remains totally uncontrolled. I mean, I can hear these guys coming (and going) from miles away; how hard is it to figure out where they congregate before and after their idiotic and dangerous "tours" of the city? I totally get why cops don't engage in chasing them on the streets ... but seriously, how on earth is this a problem that's somehow so puzzling to figure out?
All the good riding around here and people want to drive down the street? Super pathetic. I wouldn't be opposed to surveillance drones to follow them for when they get off the bike
Unfortunately we’ve gotten to the point where people learn bad things much sooner than they otherwise could’ve without the internet. If someone does X somewhere, it’s much easier to hear about it and try it yourself.
Anyways, the only way to combat this unfortunately is to have more surveillance cameras or follow them from a distance with drones until they get off the bikes.
Heard from a source that they can’t pursue the bikes and ATVs and are pretty confident the civilian complaint review board will always rule against them if the biker got hurt.
The board that they refuse to actually interact with, and the board that makes recommendations that they simply ignore? I think it’s a convenient excuse to point the finger (with hypotheticals, nonetheless) at the review board so they can take the bullet instead of the APD.
I’m against the dirt bikes but they really can’t be chased (safely). If a police vehicle tries to chase at a high rate of speed it will likely cause a pedestrian or non-involved vehicle accident. The bikes can weave through traffic much faster and easily than a vehicle. And no one around here seems to like to pull off to the side when they see flashing lights trying to get by.
I was.looking into them too. Would be a fun Sat night activity to hang out on Madison Ave, have some beers, and roll out the spiky carpet when the time is right. Kinda like Mario Kart! We could even dress up in character 😆
The police have been told not to initiate a pursuit with the dirt bikes and ATVs as it can cause significant bystander harm. Personally, I think the police should have carte blanche to go after these maniacs, Roundup all of their equipment, and Kathy should drive a bulldozer over it.
I'm from Philly originally and the problem there is even worse. After seeing their actions with the public, they'd definitely hurt the public in chases. However, in Philly they have been tracking down the illegal dirt bikes/ATVs, confiscating them, and then crushing them.
Various mayors of New York City have driven bulldozers over thousands of seized bikes and ATVs over the years and the problem not only hasn't ended, it's now shown up in smaller cities. You have to get the neighborhoods where these folks live and keep their bikes to stop tolerating it before you can fix it, otherwise you're just pulling out dandelions by hand.
Do we know that the rt85 crash was due to speeding/reckless driving?
I used to commute that route to work daily before I moved and people really did thread the needle there.
Cops are there to protect the master’s property that’s all. That’s what they were designed to do
They aren’t here to protect us, serve us, frankly do anything to help the common folk.
Time for 24 drone surveillance until these guys are caught.
Or better yet take a note from Ukraine and operate a drone and put a charge on it. Operate them in and around Albany. Use the drone as a homing missile to lock on the rider and blow up the atv.
I think the issue is now widespread enough in urban areas nationally that the makers of these vehicles should be compelled on a federal level to implement tech that renders said vehicles inoperable (with no recourse for repair or modification if such tech exists). Essentially zoned remote gps disabling of the vehicle.
If they can do it with shopping carts at Target, this seems entirely possible
Such tech exists but is *easily* worked around. Making this tech fool proof is not realistic in any way. Anyone who is even a little motivated *will* be able to remove/bypass it in short order. This one's a non-starter. Good thought though. Source: I'm a career cybersecurity professional who rode motorcycles for years and can maintain things with small engines.
At some point we are going to have to admit, this is just a really slow collapse of civil society. Then have the tough talk about accountability.
People have been doing violently dumb stuff since the dawn of time. In the 1920's gangs of teenagers would roam the streets of NYC stomping on the hats of anyone caught wearing a straw hat after September 15th. In 1922 it culminated in a riot when teenagers clashed with dock workers. There were beatings, many arrests, and even a murder in 1924.
Why September 15th?
Straw hats were a "summer" thing.
IDK, "civil" society has seemed like a lie to me. Like people are just following the path of least resistance and we're just nominally fortunate that sociopathic behavior isn't more common.
Ah yeah, because everything was just so darn civil 20, 50, or 100 years ago. We really had everything figured out back then! Take me back to when women couldn’t vote, races were segregated, and you could be dragged off in the draft to die in one of several wars. You know, back when things were CIVIL! Hell, America was SO civil they even used to name things civil. The civil war, the civil rights act…
For anyone that’s been paying attention, it’s been pretty clear for the past 10 years
I say 2015 is when I noticed the acceleration. Subs like /r/publicfreakout have amazing stats. And now you have the rise of r/ImTheMainCharacter/ There is a type of disassociation from mutuality that is happening and it's terrifying.
Ding ding ding! This! So much this!
Don't say that in the Albany sub! The braindead will down vote you!
The people we need to hold accountable first are ourselves and our elected officials. The bike gangs aren't a unique Albany problem, it's been happening in major cities since the early 2000s. The longer we ignore our urban communities the worse things are going to get. Society has traditionally leaned on the police to keep everything running smoothly but now that unsustainable model is running itself out and it's time to look at treating causes instead of symptoms.
This provoked me to think about what may be the fundamental cause of the issue, so thank you. I’m thinking that good behavior has to be incentivized. Policing tamps down on some - probably not that much - illegal activity. It’s positive incentives that shape the good behavior of a society. So, why are people riding loud, fast dirt bikes where they shouldn’t? Maybe 1.) because it’s fun and 2.) because they’re trying to get somewhere. So to displace the negative consequence of motive#1, we need more fun things - bike paths, free or cheap entertainment like skate parks and other thrills, some place to go ride dirt bikes for fun, or maybe other activities that displace loud, annoying dirt bikes anyways. I think there are endless ideas that could help. To displace motive#2, we could use accessible bike paths that are engineered for safe speeds and separated from large vehicles as well as pedestrians. Electric bikes on these safe paths would be fast, quiet, and economical. A wide 2-way bike path takes up less space than a single car lane. These are pie-in-the-sky ideals, but I figured it’s worth a minute to think about.
Unless they are also on dirt bikes they're not gonna catch them
I mean, even if a cop was on a dirt bike, they're still not catching one of these kids unless they go down.
Years ago, when I began my previous career in the GPS industry, I read about a very interesting new product that was supposedly coming to market. In order to eliminate the need for car chases and the inherent risks, a company had essentially designed a GPS dart gun for police use. It would be grill mounted, with super strong suction cups (and I wonder now why an adhesive wouldn't have worked), and a small GPS receiver and cell chip to report its location. The software on the backend would be used to identify appropriate places for road blocks to head off the feeling suspect. To me it seemed like such a fantastic use of the technology and I expected it would be a success. Now, over 15 years later and we're still saying that we can't catch some assholes on dirt bikes. Fucking geo-dart those assholes and snare them.
This has promise.
A drone wouldn’t work?
Clever thought!
Oh they could catch them, it’s just that the rider will be spending time at the hospital (or morgue) before jail and that’s why nothing is being done about it.
I imagine they're trying to avoid Breaking: Albany Police cruiser runs down unarmed black teen on ATV. ...or local leaders told them not to ...or they refuse to do their job now in retribution for 2020 and ongoing sentiment.
No, they're trying to avoid killing an innocent civilian in a pointless police pursuit because they know there's no way they're gonna catch a bike in a car or suv
High speed chases are incredibly dangerous and the safety of other motorists and pedestrians must be balanced with the likelihood of success of these chases. You are very much correct that the police are unlikely to catch a bike with a car. I witnessed a high speed chases of a gang of dirt bikers on central avenue in Colonie. It was terrifying. The gang of bikers was swerving around all the regular traffic and then the police cars were also swerving around traffic. Everyone was going more than 60 in a 40 mph zone that was full of civilian bystanders. It made my grateful that APD was not trying to pull that cowboy shit.
Holy shit
I wouldn't either if I were them. Actually, if I were them I'd retire and do something else. Fuck being a cop.
It's not just albany, I'm pretty sure it's even a federal recommendation. Local police shouldn't chase obnoxious motorbike motorists, it's policy at tons of cop shops. The odds of them catching a motorbike in a sedan in a urban or semi urban setting are significantly lower than the odds of someone getting hurt during a chase. Or, even without someone getting hurt, the odds of property damage are probably greater than the cost of the ticket. On top of it, it's a power struggle thing. In a sedan no cop is catching a dirt bike in downtown Albany, or most cities/towns. If they tried, they would often fail and it would appear embarrassing, and most likely inspire other people to do it more.
It's completely insane to me that the dirt bike situation remains totally uncontrolled. I mean, I can hear these guys coming (and going) from miles away; how hard is it to figure out where they congregate before and after their idiotic and dangerous "tours" of the city? I totally get why cops don't engage in chasing them on the streets ... but seriously, how on earth is this a problem that's somehow so puzzling to figure out?
All the good riding around here and people want to drive down the street? Super pathetic. I wouldn't be opposed to surveillance drones to follow them for when they get off the bike
Unfortunately we’ve gotten to the point where people learn bad things much sooner than they otherwise could’ve without the internet. If someone does X somewhere, it’s much easier to hear about it and try it yourself. Anyways, the only way to combat this unfortunately is to have more surveillance cameras or follow them from a distance with drones until they get off the bikes.
Heard from a source that they can’t pursue the bikes and ATVs and are pretty confident the civilian complaint review board will always rule against them if the biker got hurt.
The board that they refuse to actually interact with, and the board that makes recommendations that they simply ignore? I think it’s a convenient excuse to point the finger (with hypotheticals, nonetheless) at the review board so they can take the bullet instead of the APD.
I’m just relaying what I heard.
You’re actively spreading unsubstantiated bullshit, is what you’re doing.
Yeah, and she is just disagreeing with what that person told you. Nothing negative was said about you. Don’t be so sensitive princess.
How rude! Are you assuming their gender?
Sounds right
I’m against the dirt bikes but they really can’t be chased (safely). If a police vehicle tries to chase at a high rate of speed it will likely cause a pedestrian or non-involved vehicle accident. The bikes can weave through traffic much faster and easily than a vehicle. And no one around here seems to like to pull off to the side when they see flashing lights trying to get by.
It was in Pine Hills, not Center Sqaure
I’ve considered buying a spike chain on ebay
I was.looking into them too. Would be a fun Sat night activity to hang out on Madison Ave, have some beers, and roll out the spiky carpet when the time is right. Kinda like Mario Kart! We could even dress up in character 😆
The police have been told not to initiate a pursuit with the dirt bikes and ATVs as it can cause significant bystander harm. Personally, I think the police should have carte blanche to go after these maniacs, Roundup all of their equipment, and Kathy should drive a bulldozer over it.
I'm from Philly originally and the problem there is even worse. After seeing their actions with the public, they'd definitely hurt the public in chases. However, in Philly they have been tracking down the illegal dirt bikes/ATVs, confiscating them, and then crushing them.
Maybe that's what Albany needs then, is to track them better. I mean we have so much technology at our disposal, why not use it?
Yeah exactly and it's not like they're legally owned. They're all stolen.
Various mayors of New York City have driven bulldozers over thousands of seized bikes and ATVs over the years and the problem not only hasn't ended, it's now shown up in smaller cities. You have to get the neighborhoods where these folks live and keep their bikes to stop tolerating it before you can fix it, otherwise you're just pulling out dandelions by hand.
That mental image is great, thank you
Put cops on dirt bikes
Put everybody on dirt bikes!
Put dirt bikes on dirt bikes
Finally somebody who understands. It’s dirt bikes all the way down
Do we know that the rt85 crash was due to speeding/reckless driving? I used to commute that route to work daily before I moved and people really did thread the needle there.
Can't APD contract with local drone enthusiasts to track them? Reward (or complementary ATV) to any tracker who leads to an arrest.
The police should charge any they catch with domestic terrorism. Give them 3 hots and a cot for a few years. Tickets have been useless.
Cops are there to protect the master’s property that’s all. That’s what they were designed to do They aren’t here to protect us, serve us, frankly do anything to help the common folk.
Time for 24 drone surveillance until these guys are caught. Or better yet take a note from Ukraine and operate a drone and put a charge on it. Operate them in and around Albany. Use the drone as a homing missile to lock on the rider and blow up the atv.
Yes, military action against civilians... thats the ticket!
You got a brighter idea. If not then let them get these guys any way they can.
drone tracks bike, bike is confiscated.
Isn’t it a little odd the cop doesn’t understand he can’t chase dirt bike riders cutting in and out of traffic while speeding?