Oops. My bad. Yesterday, on my end it looked like you were replying to Snowbird60. That's why I said OP's first paragraph. Nvm, we're both on the same page.
Now...after 5yrs she is expressing reservations.
Asking someone to marry you (engagement) clearly and chilling for that long just puts them in "I don't want you entertaining other people because I promised you something you said you wanted"
Exactly. Everyone telling him he’s not overreacting are crazy.
No shit she wants to get married. They’ve been engaged for years and she’s ready but he keeps coming up with excuses.
Is that what’s going on? I thought he’s saying he is sure he wants marriage, but she feels pressured, which is also making her feel unsure about marriage.
Maybe it’s the wording that’s confusing me.
Poorly written narrative. "We're been together for 6 years and engaged for 5. I want to get married but she's hesitant even though we have a house and 2 kids together. Am I overreacting for wanting to leave my fiancee since she is unsure about getting married this far down the line?"
What would be the point of marrying at this late date? They are already legally tied via the children and homeownership. What benefit does marriage add?
I can't speak for the whole world, but in the US there are legal rights given only to spouses (unless extensive legal agreements are drawn up, but even then a non-spouse next of kin can challenge it) such as medical decision making and rights upon death among other things, also, access to a spouse's social security retirement benefits, access to health insurance, tax reduction, access to benefits provided to dependents (VA and military specifically, but there's others as well) and so on and so forth.
It's not "just a piece of paper" as some people say.
For starters, many people like the title of husband and wife. They like the state of being married, versus just living together.
Also, there can be legal advantages.
I just want that commitment and to be a husband and have a wife, I don’t want to be with anyone else and never have been unfaithful towards her. I work really hard professionally and personally via the gym and don’t drink or do drugs, we do a lot with our family, the house, a dog, I love this woman and think she is absolutely beautiful and wish this wasn’t a question or a pressure to her.
You should have some kind of a serious talk with her. It’s weird for her to say that she feels pressured to marry you when you guys already have two children and a house. She’s done all that with you and she’s still not sure that she wants to settle down? 😂
Are you in the Philippines? Or Vatican City?
I ask because those are the only countries where spouses cannot get legally divorced no matter what happens.
I guess I’m not seeing a lack of commitment on her part. Does a marriage license prevent a marriage or family from falling apart? You say you love her and love your life but you threatening her with getting married or breaking a family apart? The two of you have opposite views so to settle it you are willing to throw everything away. Does that make you a winner?
There’s the matter of being next of kin and can’t be prevented to visit in a hospital. There’s protections in divorce (community assets, alimony,) and significant tax breaks.
There are many legal, tax and financial benefits to being married, at least if they are in the United States. My husband and I got married after 14 years together after we saw some friends get totally hosed after their unmarried partner died but the deceased partner's family were able to shut them out of nearly all medical decisions and the. funds, property, etc.
That’s not a bad idea. But more because it could help you decide what you need and want. If she’s unwilling to go to therapy with you, I’d take that as a red flag.
I would like to ask her to be honest with why she doesn’t want to get married. I mean you guys have children and a house together. Like those HUGE commitments. Also wouldn’t being married protect her more 🤔🤔
Sounds like she doesn't want to deal with whatever emotional issues she's clearly got going on regarding marriage. I'd just lay it all out for her: you asked her to marry you because you wanted to be married to her. You still do. But if she doesn't, then she needs to just tell you that and stop stringing you along. If she's not willing to marry you after 5 years, a home and two children together, she's never going to. At this point you need to decide if being with her unmarried is better than not being with her and possibly married to someone else. She's made it clear she doesn't want to be married and doesn't even want to discuss it.
No, you’re not overreacting here. Talk to her though, try to find out why she is feeling pressured and if she feels it coming from you.
Why on earth would she say yes to a proposal then afterward say she feels pressured.
Sounds like she isn’t ready for marriage or is rethinking marriage with you.
I have tried to bring it up a lot more recently to show her i’m committed and that’s where she says she feels pressured now. With all that we have if she truly loved me I didn’t think it would be this difficult to plan something, a date, a place, etc… We have talked about it in the past but i’ve always been the one to bring it up I feel like. The first few years of engagement I was ok with not putting a rush on it, but 5 years later I am getting worried.
I would avoid the "if she truly loved me then..."
I know it's hard because you want to make sense of it, but going in with the most curious, inquisitive and unbiased state possible is what you, your emotions and your relationship deserve
Try to get out of the mindset that marriage must happen and be an objective observer, and inquire into what she feels about it. What are the words that come to mind for her, what is the nuance?
Give her time and space to think about it.
You might be right that your feelings are unmet or unmatched... or you might be wrong and it might be something personal for her about marriage. Especially after a divorce that's understandable.
I was always committed to my relationship even before marriage - I feel like part of why I chose to get married was that I wanted to show my.partner just how much I loved them/was committed to them. Once married, it added this weird pressure for me that made me feel like a caged animal. Every issue we'd have that couldn't be resolved felt like it was extrapolated out across my future. It was hard to have the patience to navigate things with the person.
My point is, marriage is a more emotionally complex thing - it holds different and unique and heavy emotional.significance for every person.
If you've been together this long and you don't have any other issues in the relationship - I so strongly encourage you to take a soft hand to this.
It doesn't need to be figured out today.
Wish you all the best. Trust yourself! Cheers
It makes sense to me if she thinks you've talked about it and decided then a few days later you bring it up again, that might be where its coming from. I'd ask for a time where you can sit together and talk it out, and if at the end of the conversation she still doesn't want to start planning or set a date yet, agree to table the discussion for 6 months and not bring it up again until that date. It might be once she's had some space from the conversation, without it being brought up again, she'll make up her mind on what she wants to do and when. Just make it clear that she is welcome to bring it up at any time, but you won't mention it again until 6 months are up.
If you got engaged and/or had the first child early in the relationship it might be that she's feeling like so much happened quickly and there's an expectation of marriage rather than it having developed naturally in the course of getting to know each other and developing the kind of connection where you both knew you were ready. Women especially get a lot of external pressure from friends/family/society to marry, especially after kids, simply because they have a child with that person, so its very possible that others have been badgering her about it and that makes her feel like its about duty rather than love.
Also, has she ever said that she wants to get married, like was it ever a goal or a thing she wanted from life? It may be that she feels being together and having a family together is enough, or has objections to the idea of marriage in general (rather than that having anything to do with you).
Thank you. there have been rare moments where we talked about it but then nothing ever came from it. I am just the only one who has brought it up as of late. I like the idea of giving her time and space instead of me constantly bringing it up, just at that point I am afraid i’ll be wasting my time for her to tell me the same thing. I know I can’t think like that but it is a possibility.
Is she worried about the actual wedding? Are you guys having financial difficulty. Is she the "default" parent and the mental load carrier in the house? Is she worried about having to plan a wedding on top of all of her other responsibilities?
I'd like to add a point to you wondering about the actual wedding. Could she be feeling pressure to plan a big wedding she may not actually want? Maybe she wants something smaller? Or, she could just be like me and not feel the need to legally marry. Been there, done that. I've been with my SO for almost 20 years now and I love him very much and vice versa. He'd marry me tomorrow but he's also ok with us not having an actual ceremony. Ok, done rambling, lol.
The only why I have gotten is because she doesn’t know if she wants to marry me, to keep things short. Just feel like I am being strung along at this point if that’s the case. I love my kids, my house, I really don’t want to throw any of this away. At the same time I am a romantic and want a partner who truly loves me unconditionally as I love her.
Doesn't want to marry you or doesn't want to be married, but is content with the relationship as it is now, or doesn't want to marry and is considering whether she wants to be in the relationship at all?
I am also divorced, and so is my SO. We started living together our first year and when the subject came up we both felt that it would not make a difference. Married or not, the relationship is either gonna make it or not. We ve been together 30 years. We also felt that getting married might give the feeling of being trapped, because of our pasts. Maybe she is happy with the way things are and just she feels like "what for, why would I jinx this" I don't beleive this has to mean she doesn't love you, and backing her into a corner with "If you truly loved me......" stuff may backfire. Just give her more time, but at some point she should tell you honestly where she stands long term for real. Your feelings matter too.
Whenever people are so flippant about being married I genuinely wonder if they’ve considered all of the LEGAL rights and protections you get with marriage. Why gay people fought so hard for it. I always get scared couples with this nonchalant “it’s no big difference” attitude find out the hard way when one of them has a medical emergency and that piece of paper is the difference between holding their hand as they die or being left in the waiting room. Incredibly sad and strange to me but might be, again, the having to fight for the right to GET married thing
You make some good points. But I think it's different for everyone. We have close friends who also never got married, have two kids and it works for them. With some people, something changes, I dont know what and off they go to divorce after everything. Maybe OP wife just doesn't want to rock the boat. With the gay community, being allowed to marry is important. It's an achievement to gain true equality and recognition that love is love. I'm glad they have that now.
here is an advantage to marriage to tell her - I became disabled (Fulltime wheelchair user) my wife gets paid by the gov't as my caregiver - if we weren't married, she wouldn't get paid.. we are talking about a couple of grand a month. Now we arent talking about other things, like Social Security etc (if you are in the states) Survivor benefits, etc
If I had to take a guess, maybe she is just comfortable, loves the life you guys have together in this moment and she’s scared marriage would change things? I’m on my second marriage and I was extremely scared to go through with it because I was terrified of it not working out and going through another divorce. We are happy though and celebrate 8 years of marriage July 30 ☺️
You're not overreacting. I will never understand how someone can quite happily have children with someone but struggle to wear a ring and sign some papers. Children are a FAR bigger committment than marriage.
Right? Who agrees to buy a house and have children with someone and then have the gall to say “you’re pressuring me into marrying you!”. That’s the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard.
Although the one olive branch I’ll extend is that if neither person explicitly brought up marriage, then they both share some blame for that. They’re both divorced, and some people take a firm “I’m never getting married ever again” after getting divorced, which is honestly understandable. So if OP just assumed that marriage was on the table while the fiancée assumed the opposite, I could see the miscommunication there.
In any case, neither person should have agreed to tying their lives together so closely without discussing this first. I will never understand how people can make such drastic life decisions without actually talking it out beforehand. It is absolutely baffling to me
Agreed, children are a bigger commitment and we can’t change that. I told her not to wear her ring if she doesn’t want to get married because it feels fake, she didn’t like that. I can’t force her to marry me, and I don’t want to waste my youth being with someone who doesn’t feel the same I feel. Just love my kids and what we have built so throwing it all away is hard, especially because of my first failed marriage.
Genuine question, why do you believe that being married means you are truly in love? And conversely that if you aren't married then she doesn't love you? Are you really "wasting your youth" when you live together and raise children together? I'm really unsure what's got you wound up so tightly about this. Doubt it's religious since you've already ticked most of the big boxes that say "long term/life relationship" together. Is there anything actually wrong in your current relationship?
In many ways it is a symbolic action, sometimes religious obligation and a legal agreement. To be honest, the organisation, and the actual day can be such a huge headache, and if she has gone through it all before I can somewhat understand an attitude of "this is causing me more stress than I want".
We both did court house weddings our first marriages but I understand maybe the stress of planning. When we have discussed it rarely we didn’t want anything big just a small ceremony, something different that a court house since we already did that. At the end of the day I just want to be someone’s husband as I believe it shows commitment, and hopefully love, I would not want to marry out of love.
From what I've read so far. 1) There are no major issues in your relationship. 2) YOU are ramping up the pressure on your partner to get married, and possible inciting your shared children to do the same. 3) You are now adding more pressure by considering leaving her and "throwing away all we have built together" because she seems to be slowing down the planning of the wedding.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like you are creating this issue out of your own desires. Have you had a serious discussion (and actually listened to her) about why she is resisting organising the wedding?
While I agree that marriage is often the formal committent/announcement of your relationship that many people see as important to a relationship, it does not mean the same thing for everyone. I have family friends who lived together and raised their children and step children together and are happily unmarried for 30 years and still together with all their children moved out. They both had prior marriages which didn't work out and didn't want to go through it again.
My advice is to focus on improving your relationship with your partner. You have to put work into a relationship before and *after* a marriage anyway. Don't hang the whole relationship on whether you are married or not. Having said that, both parties should be trying to find compromises that make each other happy. Discuss this in an empathetic and caring way with each other's best interests in mind. Good luck.
Your situation reminded me of myself at 5. I couldn’t understand why my mom and step dad were getting married. In my little brain, I just assumed that since he lived with us, they were already married.
Yeah it just makes sense if she is serious and something she wants. I know I want it and want to continue our life together as husband and wife. I think it is also good to show the kids, plus as my wife we would have the same last name for the kids when they start school.
I'd have rather been a bastard, my parents married because of a pregnancy when they still barely knew each other and weren't even officially in a relationship yet, it was a mess. Actually, technically they're still married, she just disappeared for over 30 years.
No, you're not overreacting but don't let your concern get out of hand. If you two did not have children, it could be argued she's just afraid of making the final commitment to get married because both of your first marriages didn't work. But that's a shit argument since you have two children together, so her not wanting to get married makes little to no sense. You're already effectively a family and I'll add to that getting married would help you both tax wise. While it is frustrating that she's not ready to get married, I wouldn't go ballistic on her. Plenty of people have great long term relationships without marriage. If you've have a great relationship with her over the past six years and it's still great, pressuring her into marrying you just for the sake of being married might not be the best course of action. Best thing to do is sit down with her and calmly discuss why she has an aversion to taking the final step and getting married. Best of luck to you both.
If you both have been married before, I understand her hesitance more. I just got divorced and can confirm divorce trauma is real. It’s terrifying to consider being married again even though I would be in a relationship again. You’re NOR though, because if she felt that way, she should’ve been upfront in the beginning.
I am sorry you are going through it, I did too when I got divorced 8 years ago and never wanted to re-marry or rush marriage. 5 years later engaged though I definitely want to figure out our future to some extent.
Yeah I understand. If she had such cold feet about marriage, she should’ve made that very clear. Instead of pushing it off indefinitely, she should’ve really explored her feelings with you and been open about her fears.
"However she has expressed lately she feels pressured getting married"
OK, she feels that, her feelings are valid.
Now, WHY does she feel that pressure? If she doesn't know and can't answer that, she needs to figure that out, maybe with counseling as she owes herself and you a reason for WHY she feels pressure. Could be from her last failed marriage, fears of getting divorced a 2nd time etc.
Now, I'm not pressuring her into marrying you. She should figure out where and why she's feeling pressured even if she still never marries you. She should NOT avoid working on this and figuring it out.
Put it this way OP, do NOT marry her if she doesn't figure this out.
So many get married and try to make it work only to realize that they shouldn't have gotten married, whether to you or to anyone else.
You don't want to be married to someone who doesn't really want to be married, even if she loves you.
To some, it's a straight jacket. Some live together wonderfully for decades while not being married but had they gotten married, their relationship would have run off the rails.
So, she needs to work on this and figure out why she feels like this, whether the two of you get married or not.
One last point OP, if she does NOT want to work on this and figure it out, cut your losses now.
Married or not, people in a relationship with each other, for yeas like the two of you and with kids owe it to each other to work on things that affect each other, the relationship etc.
If she doesn't want to work on this and figure out why, it's a bad sign.
You said you have been working on self-improvement for the amount of time that she has been acting differently. Maybe she does not like the change? Or maybe too little too late? Idk. I need more info.
Too late possibly or she wants to see it long term. She hasn’t changed at all either, we have other issues I try to talk to her about but she has made no changes or effort in that regards.
Getting a marriage license isnt really necessary and serves no benefit to you OP tbh. You can have a life partner w/o the legal issues of a marriage license. A marriage license does not guarantee staying together till death parts ye.
So she either marries you or you’re leaving? Geez I wonder why she feels pressured 🙄
Have a conversation where you center her feelings instead of your own.
Or just let the poor woman go, sounds like she’d be better off.
> engaged for 5 years
> doesn't want to get married
Are you sure you're engaged? If she feels "pressured" after 5 years then she doesn't want to marry you. Sounds like she is using "being pressured" as an excuse to avoid addressing the underlying issue. You said she wasn't happy when you said to stop wearing the ring, but you were right. She doesn't seem like she is willing or eager to get married.
You said in your replies that you have brought up couples counseling and she said you were the one who needed it. That's an admission in my mind that she thinks something is wrong with you and is hesitant to marry you. If she really doesn't want to marry you after 5 years of being engaged because she feels pressured then she should be getting individual counseling.
We definitely have our issues and marriage will solve 0 of them, she does blame me for every problem in our relationship. She has never brought anything up to me about this kind of stuff and when I bring something up she turns it on me and blames me for all our issues and has 0 accountability and has apologized for little to nothing.
5 years in...she's not going to marry you. If you want a wife it's time to bounce. Even if she changes her mind it's because she's losing her safety and security.
Otherwise just enjoy not being married together.
One thing that bothers me is her wearing the engagement ring if she is unsure she wants to get married. I told her this, it seems fake to wear an expensive engagement ring for someone you have no intentions to marry anytime soon.
I'm a couples therapist. At some point it's shit or get off the pot. Your goals aren't aligned. Either make your piece or move into...how do we split up and just coparent. Don't accept a marriage just because you said you want to leave and split though. It's okay that this is important to you and 5 years should be enough time to have figured it out.
If you’ve been married before, then you know it’s not the institution you think it is. Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn have been living together in holy unmatrimony for 30 years. I will never get married ever again, and my current partner knows this.
THIS! I am married now, but if something were to happen to my partner or my marriage, I would not get married again. It's a huge pain in the ass and both have been married before. For OP, probably worth digging in to why it's important to him to be married and why it's not important to her. I wouldnt just assume it's because she doesnt want to be with him long term.
You are not overreacting. Something is going on. I would check it out for sure. She wouldn't feel "so pressured" if something else wasn't going on in the back. Women with families like yours wouldn't say no to life partners if she felt the same about you. Obviously, it's one-sided, but be smart and do your homework, and protect yourself and the kiddos. Hope it works out.
I don’t think her reluctance is about you. How bad was her divorce? If childbirth x2 didn’t bother her, but she doesn’t want to get married again, she might have some divorce trauma holding her back.
I can see her side, if you can't. Sounds like from what you wrote that you were distinctly "not ready" for a while. You live together, you have children, but you held off on actually marrying her, I could see not feeling you were serious about the relationship. It boggles the mind that people can have CHILDREN together, but marriage is too big of a commitment. Now you want to get married because you want to. Counseling together would be a good idea
Thank you, I have not been perfect and was in no rush before. Now that i’ve made that commitment and expressed it the pages have turned where she is in no rush. Just sucks because I opened up a lot these past few months and feel like I am chasing her and trying to convince her to “stay” with me instead of it being mutual.
Maybe she wants to make sure this change is lasting? Or took you a long time to change, and she is already over it? Or she sees you finally change, and now you want immediate gratification, which is annoying.
This makes sense, it has been over 2 months but in the sense of 5+ years that isn’t very long. Not to make me sound like a shitty partner or person before these 2 months either, just have been really focused last few months.
Why does she feel pressured? You talking about your feelings and your commitment but what was your previous arrangement before you changed your mind? It sounds like you’re more interested in filling the role of having a life partner as you age then being with her if you are willing to just leave unless you get your way.
Lots and lots of people are asking you WHY she feels this pressure, and you've skipped it every time in favor of saying "I want the commitment" instead of answering.
She feels pressured because I have brought it up the last few months, trying to plan something, our oldest has brought it up too. She feels pressured to move forward and plan things because I keep sharing my feelings towards marriage and wanting to be with her.
So from your other comments, you weren't in a rush before, but now you're ready and the tables have turned, and she's in no rush now. So she waited and you're ready to leave your family at the first sign that she's not ready on your new timeline.
And the why people are asking for isn't really why she feels pressured, if she's asked for time and you keep pushing, then yeah that's a lot of pressure, but WHY doesn't she want to get married? Without dancing around it, she's got to have given you some reasons why she wants to continue waiting. Is it fear of financial issues? Does she just plain not want the stress of planning a wedding along with her other responsibilities? Is it petty because she waited for you who was in "no rush" for so long and now wants to give you a dose of your own medicine? Is she terrified of failure with one divorce under her belt already? There has to be a reason.
If I were to pick one it probably was me being in no rush for the first part of marriage, but to be fair she never brought it up either or expressed planning anything. Without her saying anything, good or bad, I have started bringing it up these past months and that’s where she hit me with she feels pressured now. I don’t think I am to take all the blame since we both really didn’t make an effort earlier on.
I would ask what her hesitance means to OP. Does he think being married puts them on more stable ground as a couple? More legitimate? Would he feel more secure? Not a chance. She gave her answer. Jesus, she bought a house and had two kids with him. That’s pretty fuckin’ committed to me. Are we worried about what the neighbors, relatives or kids friends will say? Not a reason to get married. Marriage is often the wildly romantic illusion of making that which is impermanent, permanent. Here’s a hard fact I had to swallow years ago: All relationships end by death or divorce. Marriage does not make that any less true. Lastly, I’m not throwing out a really good thing in exchange for a romantic notion.
You guys are all ready committed , you have kids and a house together. If she had a bad experience being married before maybe she’s happier being life partners . You should definitely do counseling together to try and understand where each other is coming from . Marriage isn’t important to everyone especially if one has already done it which you both have .Choosing to be together, being loyal to each other and supportive of each other is .
OP, "engaged" *does* mean "this person has committed to marry this other person".
If you don't want to be married, you had NO business getting engaged.
Find out why she feels pressured to marry you after all this time and kids together, what is she afraid of?
Ask her if she wants you to move out.
Maybe couples counselling?
Maybe ask her if it’s the thought of planning a wedding that’s actually stressing her? Or if it’s the fact that marriage is being turned into such a big deal that it feels overwhelming. If so, you can just get the licence and get married at the court house. It can be super simple, just get the official part out of the way and carry on with your life as it has been. You don’t need to do a wedding, honeymoon etc.
It’s not the planning, she never has brought it up in the past really, the few times nothing came from it. It really is her just stringing me along I feel like while she is trying to decide if she wants to marry me, 5 years after engagement
Given that you’ve bought a home together and have 2 kids does it really matter if you get married? Sometimes people can have an issue with marriage due to past situations. If you’re essentially living as married and both committed, does it really matter? Is it worth losing what you have now?
good point, that is what i’m trying to decide, in my mind i want to be her husband that she’s proud of and wants to be with but not sure if it’s worth leaving if that doesn’t happen
It doesn’t seem like you’re getting anywhere discussing this with her yourself. If you tell her it’s an important conversation and you want to understand, not to pressure her in any way, and would like to speak about it with a neutral third party present (like a counselor) would she do that? If she won’t do that for you, I think that’s an indication of where things are headed. I’m sorry.
It seems the main reason she isn’t ready is her commitment to me in short. I am the one that feels like I am not safe with her this far into our relationship and feel like once the kids are grown she will just walk away from me.
Maybe after 5 years and two kids she got tired of waiting for you to 'be ready to plan". You now plan on "throwing everything away" because she WON"T marry you after dragging your feet for 5 years. You sound like a controlling asshiole.
Maybe I am, maybe i’m not, at the end of the day I love her and do not want anyone else, and want to be her husband. I can’t control her or anyone else, I can only control myself.
I read your comments and I still do not understand the hang-up. You’re not overreacting, but it seems like she just doesn’t want a commitment to you. That’s a very painful thing to hear from someone you’ve built a life with. But if after 5 *years* engaged, she should certainly have her answer. I think you know her answer deep down. Don’t get legally tied to her if she’s just going to want an out in another 5 years. I’m sorry OP! But I think she’s not someone you want to be with in the longterm, because a non-reciprocal relationship is not healthy for anyone. Best of luck!
Has she explained why she seems hesitant to get married? Is it lingering emotional issues about her previous divorce, worries about finances if there’s another divorce, or something else? How do you think it would play out if you told her that you just want to support her regardless of when she wants to get married and ask what apprehensions she has?
Info: did she get screwed over in her last divorce? Maybe the legal side of being married is throwing her off, considering the kids and house make it sound like you’re living married anyway.
Have you suggested a pre-nup to make her feel more secure?
Dude, you're not "engaged", you're parents of two small children. Six years in and you're still waiting for... grand kids?
If she had brains and self-esteem, she'd have sent your ass packing *before* the kids.
Are the the the loser my niece dragged home?
Maybe she just needs time? You both were divorced once so she knows the huge hassle that comes along with getting divorced again, my friend refused to get married ever he dated a girl for 10 plus years they got a house together and he finally proposed to her even though he didn't believe in marriage some people just need time we never thought he'd ever do it tbh but it happened
My SIL and her partner aren't married. They just don't believe in it - her dad cheated on her mom btw.
For thise saying 'it's just a piece of paper', they should do it:
**If it's JUST a piece of paper, then why do you NEED it?**
If things are fine, you're happy and comfortable, she may not see any need to, especially after being divorced before.
I get it, taxes, etc. And for me personally I love my husband and wanted to. Sounds like OP's partner did at one point in time, too. But things change. It's "just" paper, but divorce can be messy. Why complicate something that works? I can see her side, too.
Mmm... I mean... Here's the thing, you two are always going to be connected now you have kids together so it's not like she's going to be out of your life if you just end it.
I'd be interested to know why she feels pressured and what's making her hesitant. If she's not putting it completely off the table, it seems silly to end a perfectly good relationship filled with love, over marriage hesitation?
I think it's worth having deeper conversations about why she's feeling pressured before you pull the plug. You might regret making such a quick decision on that one. Maybe it's worth going to marriage counselling to talk this one out, see if there's some deeper problems here that's holding her back?
If counselling doesn't work and actually she's just not interested in marriage, even if she sees you as her forever but that's a deal breaker for you then yes, of course break up as you have different values but, it seems like you're quick to quit on this one.
No you’re not. Have a serious talk. Does she still want to get married? What’s a timeline? Where is this pressure feeling coming from after all this time?
I would tell her "dude you have a house together and children, what do you think you are missing out? You are already into it". To me, it is really immature of her not to say the least.
Was her 1st marriage/divorce ugly? We don't know the history. Try talking to her, couples therapy, maybe. Are there religious reasons? I've been with my guy 25+ years, no ring, no on & off, two kids 19 & 12, no cheating (to my knowledge), but this works for us. Give her a chance to explain her side. I wish you good luck.
Wait I’m confused by the wording. Is she wanting to get married to you or not?
Is kinda weird especially at this point, but if she doesn’t you might want to ask why. Some people have a weird view of what marriage means and don’t want it. She’s been divorced, was she screwed over? If so there may be a protection mechanism thing here.
You have kids together? And engaged for five years? And she’s not ready? Sorry to say, but it’s time for the ultimatum. You’re already thinking about leaving her. You need to tell her straight up you want to get married!
I will never understand people who buy property together and HAVE CHILDREN TOGETHER but decide marriage is too much of a commitment. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me. At this point you're just as committed as if you were married, so what is her reasoning? You should go to counseling where a third party can help the two of you navigate this, as I suspect having both been divorced, she's likely dealing with some trauma from her previous marriage.
Not really, legally each of their next of kin isn’t one another, it’s their respective parents. If either one of them is incapacitated, unlike with a husband or wife, neither of them will be the one able to make any medical decisions and neither has any right to even see the other person in the hospital if they one hospitalized is unable to make their own decisions. If one of them dies or is hospitalized and isn’t able to express their wishes, the other can be cut out of everything, because legally, they have no right to make any of the decisions for anything to do with one another in the event of death or incapacitation.
If they own a house together, and there’s not something saying that if one of them dies the other gets the house, the parents of the dead partner have more of a claim to their child’s half of the house than the person who actually bought it. There are a lot of legal protections that marriage gives you, and having kids and being together for a long time doesn’t change that.
Perhaps the divorce from her previous marriage was so horrible it has made her hesitant at the thought of getting married again? Just a guess, but I know a few people who have been completely and utterly destroyed both emotionally and financially from their divorce.
What do you think?
Who is pressuring her? Feeling pressure is a stupid reason to get married! The only reason you should get married is because you BOTH want to and are ready for it!
If sometime is pressuring you to change your life's timeline cut them out of your life! They are not living your life and they get NO say in it! She needs to get a backbone and stand up to the people pressuring her!
I can’t tell by your writing if she feels reluctant or if you do. Can you clarify?
Either way, get married. You have property and children. You both need legal protections. If one of you goes into hospital the other cant make decisions. If you or her die it’s possible your property can be inherited upwards to parents rather than to each other.
Get married or get wills and power of attorney docs so you have protection of your assets, children and medical decisions.
Have you started pressuring her into marrying you. If not start looking what’s causing the problem an affair the kids you something is causing this rift good luck
I’ve brought it up a lot more recently, and so has our oldest child. Because of me and our oldest bringing it up she said she feels pressured and isn’t ready.
Why do you need marriage? You already have the life, maybe let her sort out whatever is stressing her out. Maybe if it’s something important to you, therapy would be a good path?
I don’t need it, but I do want it, I want to be a husband and have a wife, just for the commitment aspect of love and the values marriage brings. These are my opinions on it she may feel differently, obviously i suppose
I get wanting to be married. I’m not sure what else you are getting at. “The values marriage brings” reads like some sexist ownership bs (so I will assume that isn’t what you mean). You two already have kids together. Commitment.
It may just be too late and we are at this crossroad now, no indication of that on her side and definitely not mine but things can change in an instant.
I was young the first time around, I learned a lot from it about myself and what I could have done better and apply that to my current relationship. Marriage is scary for sure and not for everyone.
Yet if this was reversed, and a woman had been engaged to a man for years with the man "feeling pressured" to actually get married to her, the advice to that woman would be to cut him loose.
No it wouldn’t. Not every woman wants marriage at all. If they are in a long term relationship with kids and commitments that’s freaking a commitment same as marriage. Even legally there are the same cohabitation rights once kids are on the scene
This is probably an unpopular take, but purely from a strategic standpoint you probably shouldn’t marry her. You’re basically paying family with her but without all the obligations; if you get married you’d just be more tied down legally and if worst comes to worst it’ll be harder to leave her.
And the reason I bring up the worst case scenario is because it’s obvious that she’s not committed. Women only act this way if they’re not vested in their relationship or if they don’t feel safe and secure; regardless of which it is marrying her after she made her feelings apparent is a huge risk to you.
Now you two can try and talk it out (professional counseling) or leave; if you want, but do not try to push for marriage!
Yes you are overreacting. Think of the kids. You said you want to spend forever with your fiancée and I am assuming she feels the same. The kids lives will be destroyed if you leave. Her not wanting to get married shouldn’t be what breaks up your family. Y’all love each other and have kids. Geez, be happy. Stay.
Two more years living like this and it's a common-law marriage.
I'm so sorry that she's "not feeling it" now. That's an awful blow to an established family. Perhaps some couples therapy would help her see what the block is?
Couples therapy. There was something important that happened those few months prior that's stuck in her head. Is "the bedroom" activities going good for both of you? Everything else sounds good, why would she not want to stay w/ you forever? Just asking, I haven't read anything other than she turns u down sometimes.
What seems clear is that while you were the one 'undecided' about marriage, you were perfectly happy. Now that the tables have turned and it's your partner who is 'undecided', you are no longer happy.
So, while you held the power of being 'undecided' everything was ok but, now that your partner holds that power, everything is definitely not ok.
You are offended - how could she possibly not want me now that I have said I'm available.
Maybe you have fucked around and found out.
This I agree with unfortunately, I can’t take back the past just trying to be more open and communicative. I said this in another comment I do not want to be a victim here at all.
Yes you are overreacting and don’t be surprised if one day you come home and the kids are gone and she’s moved out.
It’s time to shit or get off the pot.
I would never let her take the kids but def don’t want this to happen when I am say 40 and the dating scene is hard asf. I don’t even think I want to fall in love ever again after this.
Please Google “benefits of getting married” you can use country and/or state.
There’s a lot of financial and other benefits to get married. Thats why we gays wanted it so much!
You guys have two children and own a house together. What would be a reason for not getting married?
Just sign the damn paper. There are certain securities and benefits that come with it. Who tf stays engaged for that long?
Men who are looking for their dream girl but using the current woman for sex and her labor.
Where are you getting that?
OP's first paragraph
“I want to be with her for the rest of my life.”
Oops. My bad. Yesterday, on my end it looked like you were replying to Snowbird60. That's why I said OP's first paragraph. Nvm, we're both on the same page.
Except for the fact that OP is a man and the one who doesn't want to get married is his fiance, who is a woman.
Now...after 5yrs she is expressing reservations. Asking someone to marry you (engagement) clearly and chilling for that long just puts them in "I don't want you entertaining other people because I promised you something you said you wanted"
Exactly. Everyone telling him he’s not overreacting are crazy. No shit she wants to get married. They’ve been engaged for years and she’s ready but he keeps coming up with excuses.
Is that what’s going on? I thought he’s saying he is sure he wants marriage, but she feels pressured, which is also making her feel unsure about marriage. Maybe it’s the wording that’s confusing me.
No, you're correct!
Poorly written narrative. "We're been together for 6 years and engaged for 5. I want to get married but she's hesitant even though we have a house and 2 kids together. Am I overreacting for wanting to leave my fiancee since she is unsure about getting married this far down the line?"
Missing : Both of them divorced once before.
OP wants to get married, the fiance is feeling too pressured to make final plans.
It’s her delaying the wedding. OP is the (maybe) groom
Not to mention the 2 kids
did you by chance pissed on the poor earlier today? s/ jk but it's amazing how you can still misread the post that only contains 2 short paragraphs.
Did you not read the post at all?
What would be the point of marrying at this late date? They are already legally tied via the children and homeownership. What benefit does marriage add?
I can't speak for the whole world, but in the US there are legal rights given only to spouses (unless extensive legal agreements are drawn up, but even then a non-spouse next of kin can challenge it) such as medical decision making and rights upon death among other things, also, access to a spouse's social security retirement benefits, access to health insurance, tax reduction, access to benefits provided to dependents (VA and military specifically, but there's others as well) and so on and so forth. It's not "just a piece of paper" as some people say.
It’s a piece of paper that can come with benefits and disadvantages. And I fought for the right to even be married.
For starters, many people like the title of husband and wife. They like the state of being married, versus just living together. Also, there can be legal advantages.
I just want that commitment and to be a husband and have a wife, I don’t want to be with anyone else and never have been unfaithful towards her. I work really hard professionally and personally via the gym and don’t drink or do drugs, we do a lot with our family, the house, a dog, I love this woman and think she is absolutely beautiful and wish this wasn’t a question or a pressure to her.
You should have some kind of a serious talk with her. It’s weird for her to say that she feels pressured to marry you when you guys already have two children and a house. She’s done all that with you and she’s still not sure that she wants to settle down? 😂
agreed, every time I try to talk she gets defensive but I am trying to get through this together.
Are you in the Philippines? Or Vatican City? I ask because those are the only countries where spouses cannot get legally divorced no matter what happens.
Not there
Probably has nothing to do with you. It doesn’t make any sense.
You have kids and a house together. That's more of a commitment than a piece of paper that can be ripped in half at any moment with a divorce.
valid for sure, we are blessed with our beautiful kids and home. Marriage wouldn’t necessarily top those things.
So why is it such a big deal then? What would change in your lives if you were to get married?
I guess I’m not seeing a lack of commitment on her part. Does a marriage license prevent a marriage or family from falling apart? You say you love her and love your life but you threatening her with getting married or breaking a family apart? The two of you have opposite views so to settle it you are willing to throw everything away. Does that make you a winner?
THIS
There’s the matter of being next of kin and can’t be prevented to visit in a hospital. There’s protections in divorce (community assets, alimony,) and significant tax breaks.
There are many legal, tax and financial benefits to being married, at least if they are in the United States. My husband and I got married after 14 years together after we saw some friends get totally hosed after their unmarried partner died but the deceased partner's family were able to shut them out of nearly all medical decisions and the. funds, property, etc.
It matters to HER. If he loves her then he would understand that?
Tax benefits and hospital benefits when someone is near death come to mind.
My grandma and step grandpa lived together and raised my dad for 11 years before they got married, some people take time?
Wow you guys have built a lot together. You should get counselling for sure.
🙏🏻 I have brought that up before. She usually tells me I need the counseling.
That’s not a bad idea. But more because it could help you decide what you need and want. If she’s unwilling to go to therapy with you, I’d take that as a red flag.
I would like to ask her to be honest with why she doesn’t want to get married. I mean you guys have children and a house together. Like those HUGE commitments. Also wouldn’t being married protect her more 🤔🤔
Sounds like she doesn't want to deal with whatever emotional issues she's clearly got going on regarding marriage. I'd just lay it all out for her: you asked her to marry you because you wanted to be married to her. You still do. But if she doesn't, then she needs to just tell you that and stop stringing you along. If she's not willing to marry you after 5 years, a home and two children together, she's never going to. At this point you need to decide if being with her unmarried is better than not being with her and possibly married to someone else. She's made it clear she doesn't want to be married and doesn't even want to discuss it.
No, you’re not overreacting here. Talk to her though, try to find out why she is feeling pressured and if she feels it coming from you. Why on earth would she say yes to a proposal then afterward say she feels pressured. Sounds like she isn’t ready for marriage or is rethinking marriage with you.
I have tried to bring it up a lot more recently to show her i’m committed and that’s where she says she feels pressured now. With all that we have if she truly loved me I didn’t think it would be this difficult to plan something, a date, a place, etc… We have talked about it in the past but i’ve always been the one to bring it up I feel like. The first few years of engagement I was ok with not putting a rush on it, but 5 years later I am getting worried.
I would avoid the "if she truly loved me then..." I know it's hard because you want to make sense of it, but going in with the most curious, inquisitive and unbiased state possible is what you, your emotions and your relationship deserve Try to get out of the mindset that marriage must happen and be an objective observer, and inquire into what she feels about it. What are the words that come to mind for her, what is the nuance? Give her time and space to think about it. You might be right that your feelings are unmet or unmatched... or you might be wrong and it might be something personal for her about marriage. Especially after a divorce that's understandable. I was always committed to my relationship even before marriage - I feel like part of why I chose to get married was that I wanted to show my.partner just how much I loved them/was committed to them. Once married, it added this weird pressure for me that made me feel like a caged animal. Every issue we'd have that couldn't be resolved felt like it was extrapolated out across my future. It was hard to have the patience to navigate things with the person. My point is, marriage is a more emotionally complex thing - it holds different and unique and heavy emotional.significance for every person. If you've been together this long and you don't have any other issues in the relationship - I so strongly encourage you to take a soft hand to this. It doesn't need to be figured out today. Wish you all the best. Trust yourself! Cheers
If I might add - I meant to, 1.5 years into marriage after an almost 7 year relationship I ended up divorced
A most excellent and thoughtful answer. Very good advice indeed :)
🙏😊
What was her first divorce like? Maybe her hesitation has to do with how that played out?
Her first divorce was mutual and the pressure part is only because of me bringing it up these past few months.
It makes sense to me if she thinks you've talked about it and decided then a few days later you bring it up again, that might be where its coming from. I'd ask for a time where you can sit together and talk it out, and if at the end of the conversation she still doesn't want to start planning or set a date yet, agree to table the discussion for 6 months and not bring it up again until that date. It might be once she's had some space from the conversation, without it being brought up again, she'll make up her mind on what she wants to do and when. Just make it clear that she is welcome to bring it up at any time, but you won't mention it again until 6 months are up. If you got engaged and/or had the first child early in the relationship it might be that she's feeling like so much happened quickly and there's an expectation of marriage rather than it having developed naturally in the course of getting to know each other and developing the kind of connection where you both knew you were ready. Women especially get a lot of external pressure from friends/family/society to marry, especially after kids, simply because they have a child with that person, so its very possible that others have been badgering her about it and that makes her feel like its about duty rather than love. Also, has she ever said that she wants to get married, like was it ever a goal or a thing she wanted from life? It may be that she feels being together and having a family together is enough, or has objections to the idea of marriage in general (rather than that having anything to do with you).
Thank you. there have been rare moments where we talked about it but then nothing ever came from it. I am just the only one who has brought it up as of late. I like the idea of giving her time and space instead of me constantly bringing it up, just at that point I am afraid i’ll be wasting my time for her to tell me the same thing. I know I can’t think like that but it is a possibility.
Is she worried about the actual wedding? Are you guys having financial difficulty. Is she the "default" parent and the mental load carrier in the house? Is she worried about having to plan a wedding on top of all of her other responsibilities?
I'd like to add a point to you wondering about the actual wedding. Could she be feeling pressure to plan a big wedding she may not actually want? Maybe she wants something smaller? Or, she could just be like me and not feel the need to legally marry. Been there, done that. I've been with my SO for almost 20 years now and I love him very much and vice versa. He'd marry me tomorrow but he's also ok with us not having an actual ceremony. Ok, done rambling, lol.
I don’t think it’s any of that, it’s all on if she truly wants to marry me, nothing to do financials or planning IMO.
So you haven't actually asked her why? That seems...remiss
The only why I have gotten is because she doesn’t know if she wants to marry me, to keep things short. Just feel like I am being strung along at this point if that’s the case. I love my kids, my house, I really don’t want to throw any of this away. At the same time I am a romantic and want a partner who truly loves me unconditionally as I love her.
Doesn't want to marry you or doesn't want to be married, but is content with the relationship as it is now, or doesn't want to marry and is considering whether she wants to be in the relationship at all?
I am also divorced, and so is my SO. We started living together our first year and when the subject came up we both felt that it would not make a difference. Married or not, the relationship is either gonna make it or not. We ve been together 30 years. We also felt that getting married might give the feeling of being trapped, because of our pasts. Maybe she is happy with the way things are and just she feels like "what for, why would I jinx this" I don't beleive this has to mean she doesn't love you, and backing her into a corner with "If you truly loved me......" stuff may backfire. Just give her more time, but at some point she should tell you honestly where she stands long term for real. Your feelings matter too.
Whenever people are so flippant about being married I genuinely wonder if they’ve considered all of the LEGAL rights and protections you get with marriage. Why gay people fought so hard for it. I always get scared couples with this nonchalant “it’s no big difference” attitude find out the hard way when one of them has a medical emergency and that piece of paper is the difference between holding their hand as they die or being left in the waiting room. Incredibly sad and strange to me but might be, again, the having to fight for the right to GET married thing
You make some good points. But I think it's different for everyone. We have close friends who also never got married, have two kids and it works for them. With some people, something changes, I dont know what and off they go to divorce after everything. Maybe OP wife just doesn't want to rock the boat. With the gay community, being allowed to marry is important. It's an achievement to gain true equality and recognition that love is love. I'm glad they have that now.
here is an advantage to marriage to tell her - I became disabled (Fulltime wheelchair user) my wife gets paid by the gov't as my caregiver - if we weren't married, she wouldn't get paid.. we are talking about a couple of grand a month. Now we arent talking about other things, like Social Security etc (if you are in the states) Survivor benefits, etc
Ask her what she is fearful of? Does she not want to jinx this? Is she fearful of another divorce?
She is unsure of me as of late is what it seems, I would say this is a new unsureness within the last few months of me opening up to her.
If I had to take a guess, maybe she is just comfortable, loves the life you guys have together in this moment and she’s scared marriage would change things? I’m on my second marriage and I was extremely scared to go through with it because I was terrified of it not working out and going through another divorce. We are happy though and celebrate 8 years of marriage July 30 ☺️
Yeah, after five years it might be best to create an exit strategy. Sorry man
You're not overreacting. I will never understand how someone can quite happily have children with someone but struggle to wear a ring and sign some papers. Children are a FAR bigger committment than marriage.
Right? Who agrees to buy a house and have children with someone and then have the gall to say “you’re pressuring me into marrying you!”. That’s the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard. Although the one olive branch I’ll extend is that if neither person explicitly brought up marriage, then they both share some blame for that. They’re both divorced, and some people take a firm “I’m never getting married ever again” after getting divorced, which is honestly understandable. So if OP just assumed that marriage was on the table while the fiancée assumed the opposite, I could see the miscommunication there. In any case, neither person should have agreed to tying their lives together so closely without discussing this first. I will never understand how people can make such drastic life decisions without actually talking it out beforehand. It is absolutely baffling to me
OP said they’ve been engaged for 5 of the 6 years they’ve been together, so it has to have come up before this.
Agreed, children are a bigger commitment and we can’t change that. I told her not to wear her ring if she doesn’t want to get married because it feels fake, she didn’t like that. I can’t force her to marry me, and I don’t want to waste my youth being with someone who doesn’t feel the same I feel. Just love my kids and what we have built so throwing it all away is hard, especially because of my first failed marriage.
Genuine question, why do you believe that being married means you are truly in love? And conversely that if you aren't married then she doesn't love you? Are you really "wasting your youth" when you live together and raise children together? I'm really unsure what's got you wound up so tightly about this. Doubt it's religious since you've already ticked most of the big boxes that say "long term/life relationship" together. Is there anything actually wrong in your current relationship? In many ways it is a symbolic action, sometimes religious obligation and a legal agreement. To be honest, the organisation, and the actual day can be such a huge headache, and if she has gone through it all before I can somewhat understand an attitude of "this is causing me more stress than I want".
We both did court house weddings our first marriages but I understand maybe the stress of planning. When we have discussed it rarely we didn’t want anything big just a small ceremony, something different that a court house since we already did that. At the end of the day I just want to be someone’s husband as I believe it shows commitment, and hopefully love, I would not want to marry out of love.
From what I've read so far. 1) There are no major issues in your relationship. 2) YOU are ramping up the pressure on your partner to get married, and possible inciting your shared children to do the same. 3) You are now adding more pressure by considering leaving her and "throwing away all we have built together" because she seems to be slowing down the planning of the wedding. Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like you are creating this issue out of your own desires. Have you had a serious discussion (and actually listened to her) about why she is resisting organising the wedding? While I agree that marriage is often the formal committent/announcement of your relationship that many people see as important to a relationship, it does not mean the same thing for everyone. I have family friends who lived together and raised their children and step children together and are happily unmarried for 30 years and still together with all their children moved out. They both had prior marriages which didn't work out and didn't want to go through it again. My advice is to focus on improving your relationship with your partner. You have to put work into a relationship before and *after* a marriage anyway. Don't hang the whole relationship on whether you are married or not. Having said that, both parties should be trying to find compromises that make each other happy. Discuss this in an empathetic and caring way with each other's best interests in mind. Good luck.
It's WILD to me. You can always get divorced, you can never stop being the other parent to a child in common.
The kids: “You guys aren’t married?”
Part of the pressure is our oldest has asked her too when we are getting married; so the kids and me are the pressure at this point.
Your situation reminded me of myself at 5. I couldn’t understand why my mom and step dad were getting married. In my little brain, I just assumed that since he lived with us, they were already married.
Yeah it just makes sense if she is serious and something she wants. I know I want it and want to continue our life together as husband and wife. I think it is also good to show the kids, plus as my wife we would have the same last name for the kids when they start school.
I mean, unless you each keep your names. Has that been discussed?
“So we are both bastards?”
I’m a proud bastard
I'd have rather been a bastard, my parents married because of a pregnancy when they still barely knew each other and weren't even officially in a relationship yet, it was a mess. Actually, technically they're still married, she just disappeared for over 30 years.
No, you're not overreacting but don't let your concern get out of hand. If you two did not have children, it could be argued she's just afraid of making the final commitment to get married because both of your first marriages didn't work. But that's a shit argument since you have two children together, so her not wanting to get married makes little to no sense. You're already effectively a family and I'll add to that getting married would help you both tax wise. While it is frustrating that she's not ready to get married, I wouldn't go ballistic on her. Plenty of people have great long term relationships without marriage. If you've have a great relationship with her over the past six years and it's still great, pressuring her into marrying you just for the sake of being married might not be the best course of action. Best thing to do is sit down with her and calmly discuss why she has an aversion to taking the final step and getting married. Best of luck to you both.
If you both have been married before, I understand her hesitance more. I just got divorced and can confirm divorce trauma is real. It’s terrifying to consider being married again even though I would be in a relationship again. You’re NOR though, because if she felt that way, she should’ve been upfront in the beginning.
I am sorry you are going through it, I did too when I got divorced 8 years ago and never wanted to re-marry or rush marriage. 5 years later engaged though I definitely want to figure out our future to some extent.
Yeah I understand. If she had such cold feet about marriage, she should’ve made that very clear. Instead of pushing it off indefinitely, she should’ve really explored her feelings with you and been open about her fears.
"However she has expressed lately she feels pressured getting married" OK, she feels that, her feelings are valid. Now, WHY does she feel that pressure? If she doesn't know and can't answer that, she needs to figure that out, maybe with counseling as she owes herself and you a reason for WHY she feels pressure. Could be from her last failed marriage, fears of getting divorced a 2nd time etc. Now, I'm not pressuring her into marrying you. She should figure out where and why she's feeling pressured even if she still never marries you. She should NOT avoid working on this and figuring it out. Put it this way OP, do NOT marry her if she doesn't figure this out. So many get married and try to make it work only to realize that they shouldn't have gotten married, whether to you or to anyone else. You don't want to be married to someone who doesn't really want to be married, even if she loves you. To some, it's a straight jacket. Some live together wonderfully for decades while not being married but had they gotten married, their relationship would have run off the rails. So, she needs to work on this and figure out why she feels like this, whether the two of you get married or not. One last point OP, if she does NOT want to work on this and figure it out, cut your losses now. Married or not, people in a relationship with each other, for yeas like the two of you and with kids owe it to each other to work on things that affect each other, the relationship etc. If she doesn't want to work on this and figure out why, it's a bad sign.
Thank you
You said you have been working on self-improvement for the amount of time that she has been acting differently. Maybe she does not like the change? Or maybe too little too late? Idk. I need more info.
Too late possibly or she wants to see it long term. She hasn’t changed at all either, we have other issues I try to talk to her about but she has made no changes or effort in that regards.
She might feel crappy because you are making changes and she has not
Getting a marriage license isnt really necessary and serves no benefit to you OP tbh. You can have a life partner w/o the legal issues of a marriage license. A marriage license does not guarantee staying together till death parts ye.
So she either marries you or you’re leaving? Geez I wonder why she feels pressured 🙄 Have a conversation where you center her feelings instead of your own. Or just let the poor woman go, sounds like she’d be better off.
Maybe, you waited too long. There really is not enough information of how your day to day is.
> engaged for 5 years > doesn't want to get married Are you sure you're engaged? If she feels "pressured" after 5 years then she doesn't want to marry you. Sounds like she is using "being pressured" as an excuse to avoid addressing the underlying issue. You said she wasn't happy when you said to stop wearing the ring, but you were right. She doesn't seem like she is willing or eager to get married. You said in your replies that you have brought up couples counseling and she said you were the one who needed it. That's an admission in my mind that she thinks something is wrong with you and is hesitant to marry you. If she really doesn't want to marry you after 5 years of being engaged because she feels pressured then she should be getting individual counseling.
We definitely have our issues and marriage will solve 0 of them, she does blame me for every problem in our relationship. She has never brought anything up to me about this kind of stuff and when I bring something up she turns it on me and blames me for all our issues and has 0 accountability and has apologized for little to nothing.
5 years in...she's not going to marry you. If you want a wife it's time to bounce. Even if she changes her mind it's because she's losing her safety and security. Otherwise just enjoy not being married together.
One thing that bothers me is her wearing the engagement ring if she is unsure she wants to get married. I told her this, it seems fake to wear an expensive engagement ring for someone you have no intentions to marry anytime soon.
I'm a couples therapist. At some point it's shit or get off the pot. Your goals aren't aligned. Either make your piece or move into...how do we split up and just coparent. Don't accept a marriage just because you said you want to leave and split though. It's okay that this is important to you and 5 years should be enough time to have figured it out.
Maybe she’s afraid she will get divorced again some people have that fear talk to her
From my understanding it wouldn’t be that it is me she is unsure of. I am going to try to talk to her more this week when it’s appropriate.
If you’ve been married before, then you know it’s not the institution you think it is. Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn have been living together in holy unmatrimony for 30 years. I will never get married ever again, and my current partner knows this.
THIS! I am married now, but if something were to happen to my partner or my marriage, I would not get married again. It's a huge pain in the ass and both have been married before. For OP, probably worth digging in to why it's important to him to be married and why it's not important to her. I wouldnt just assume it's because she doesnt want to be with him long term.
You are not overreacting. Something is going on. I would check it out for sure. She wouldn't feel "so pressured" if something else wasn't going on in the back. Women with families like yours wouldn't say no to life partners if she felt the same about you. Obviously, it's one-sided, but be smart and do your homework, and protect yourself and the kiddos. Hope it works out.
Thank you, trying to stay positive just don’t want to waste my youth with someone who doesn’t love me like I love her.
I don’t think her reluctance is about you. How bad was her divorce? If childbirth x2 didn’t bother her, but she doesn’t want to get married again, she might have some divorce trauma holding her back.
Absolutely, nor should you.
I can see her side, if you can't. Sounds like from what you wrote that you were distinctly "not ready" for a while. You live together, you have children, but you held off on actually marrying her, I could see not feeling you were serious about the relationship. It boggles the mind that people can have CHILDREN together, but marriage is too big of a commitment. Now you want to get married because you want to. Counseling together would be a good idea
Thank you, I have not been perfect and was in no rush before. Now that i’ve made that commitment and expressed it the pages have turned where she is in no rush. Just sucks because I opened up a lot these past few months and feel like I am chasing her and trying to convince her to “stay” with me instead of it being mutual.
Maybe she wants to make sure this change is lasting? Or took you a long time to change, and she is already over it? Or she sees you finally change, and now you want immediate gratification, which is annoying.
This makes sense, it has been over 2 months but in the sense of 5+ years that isn’t very long. Not to make me sound like a shitty partner or person before these 2 months either, just have been really focused last few months.
Why does she feel pressured? You talking about your feelings and your commitment but what was your previous arrangement before you changed your mind? It sounds like you’re more interested in filling the role of having a life partner as you age then being with her if you are willing to just leave unless you get your way.
I guess the commitment factor of being husband and wife is a value I want.
Lots and lots of people are asking you WHY she feels this pressure, and you've skipped it every time in favor of saying "I want the commitment" instead of answering.
She feels pressured because I have brought it up the last few months, trying to plan something, our oldest has brought it up too. She feels pressured to move forward and plan things because I keep sharing my feelings towards marriage and wanting to be with her.
So from your other comments, you weren't in a rush before, but now you're ready and the tables have turned, and she's in no rush now. So she waited and you're ready to leave your family at the first sign that she's not ready on your new timeline. And the why people are asking for isn't really why she feels pressured, if she's asked for time and you keep pushing, then yeah that's a lot of pressure, but WHY doesn't she want to get married? Without dancing around it, she's got to have given you some reasons why she wants to continue waiting. Is it fear of financial issues? Does she just plain not want the stress of planning a wedding along with her other responsibilities? Is it petty because she waited for you who was in "no rush" for so long and now wants to give you a dose of your own medicine? Is she terrified of failure with one divorce under her belt already? There has to be a reason.
If I were to pick one it probably was me being in no rush for the first part of marriage, but to be fair she never brought it up either or expressed planning anything. Without her saying anything, good or bad, I have started bringing it up these past months and that’s where she hit me with she feels pressured now. I don’t think I am to take all the blame since we both really didn’t make an effort earlier on.
Don't. Buy. A. House. With. Someone. You're. Not. Married. To.
I would ask what her hesitance means to OP. Does he think being married puts them on more stable ground as a couple? More legitimate? Would he feel more secure? Not a chance. She gave her answer. Jesus, she bought a house and had two kids with him. That’s pretty fuckin’ committed to me. Are we worried about what the neighbors, relatives or kids friends will say? Not a reason to get married. Marriage is often the wildly romantic illusion of making that which is impermanent, permanent. Here’s a hard fact I had to swallow years ago: All relationships end by death or divorce. Marriage does not make that any less true. Lastly, I’m not throwing out a really good thing in exchange for a romantic notion.
You guys are all ready committed , you have kids and a house together. If she had a bad experience being married before maybe she’s happier being life partners . You should definitely do counseling together to try and understand where each other is coming from . Marriage isn’t important to everyone especially if one has already done it which you both have .Choosing to be together, being loyal to each other and supportive of each other is .
I agree, just didn’t expect to be engaged forever if that was her intentions.
Are you planning to get married in your 50s? I’m confused. Is she pressured to get married or not get married?
Yeah I don’t want to get married in 15+ years, especially since we’ve already been together for the 6+ years.
I guess the wording was throwing me off. You want to get married but she wants to remain your girlfriend.
Def how I feel at this point and her wearing an expensive engagement ring is fake if she doesn’t want to plan a wedding with me or be my wife.
Sorry to hear you’re in this situation. I’m not qualified to give advice on this. Hopefully this straightens out for you soon.
Man, if you don’t think that she loves you anymore, it may be time to start discussing custody arrangements.
OP, "engaged" *does* mean "this person has committed to marry this other person". If you don't want to be married, you had NO business getting engaged.
Find out why she feels pressured to marry you after all this time and kids together, what is she afraid of? Ask her if she wants you to move out. Maybe couples counselling?
Maybe ask her if it’s the thought of planning a wedding that’s actually stressing her? Or if it’s the fact that marriage is being turned into such a big deal that it feels overwhelming. If so, you can just get the licence and get married at the court house. It can be super simple, just get the official part out of the way and carry on with your life as it has been. You don’t need to do a wedding, honeymoon etc.
It’s not the planning, she never has brought it up in the past really, the few times nothing came from it. It really is her just stringing me along I feel like while she is trying to decide if she wants to marry me, 5 years after engagement
Given that you’ve bought a home together and have 2 kids does it really matter if you get married? Sometimes people can have an issue with marriage due to past situations. If you’re essentially living as married and both committed, does it really matter? Is it worth losing what you have now?
good point, that is what i’m trying to decide, in my mind i want to be her husband that she’s proud of and wants to be with but not sure if it’s worth leaving if that doesn’t happen
It doesn’t seem like you’re getting anywhere discussing this with her yourself. If you tell her it’s an important conversation and you want to understand, not to pressure her in any way, and would like to speak about it with a neutral third party present (like a counselor) would she do that? If she won’t do that for you, I think that’s an indication of where things are headed. I’m sorry.
Maybe she feels overwhelmed re wedding costs and logistics? Is there finance stuff she wants to keep separate? We don't have enough information
It seems the main reason she isn’t ready is her commitment to me in short. I am the one that feels like I am not safe with her this far into our relationship and feel like once the kids are grown she will just walk away from me.
It's too bad she won't go to therapy with you. Kinda a red flag. If you ask her why she doesn't feel ready to marry what does she say?
Maybe after 5 years and two kids she got tired of waiting for you to 'be ready to plan". You now plan on "throwing everything away" because she WON"T marry you after dragging your feet for 5 years. You sound like a controlling asshiole.
Maybe I am, maybe i’m not, at the end of the day I love her and do not want anyone else, and want to be her husband. I can’t control her or anyone else, I can only control myself.
I read your comments and I still do not understand the hang-up. You’re not overreacting, but it seems like she just doesn’t want a commitment to you. That’s a very painful thing to hear from someone you’ve built a life with. But if after 5 *years* engaged, she should certainly have her answer. I think you know her answer deep down. Don’t get legally tied to her if she’s just going to want an out in another 5 years. I’m sorry OP! But I think she’s not someone you want to be with in the longterm, because a non-reciprocal relationship is not healthy for anyone. Best of luck!
Has she explained why she seems hesitant to get married? Is it lingering emotional issues about her previous divorce, worries about finances if there’s another divorce, or something else? How do you think it would play out if you told her that you just want to support her regardless of when she wants to get married and ask what apprehensions she has?
Info: did she get screwed over in her last divorce? Maybe the legal side of being married is throwing her off, considering the kids and house make it sound like you’re living married anyway. Have you suggested a pre-nup to make her feel more secure?
Dude, you're not "engaged", you're parents of two small children. Six years in and you're still waiting for... grand kids? If she had brains and self-esteem, she'd have sent your ass packing *before* the kids. Are the the the loser my niece dragged home?
Maybe she just needs time? You both were divorced once so she knows the huge hassle that comes along with getting divorced again, my friend refused to get married ever he dated a girl for 10 plus years they got a house together and he finally proposed to her even though he didn't believe in marriage some people just need time we never thought he'd ever do it tbh but it happened
My SIL and her partner aren't married. They just don't believe in it - her dad cheated on her mom btw. For thise saying 'it's just a piece of paper', they should do it: **If it's JUST a piece of paper, then why do you NEED it?** If things are fine, you're happy and comfortable, she may not see any need to, especially after being divorced before. I get it, taxes, etc. And for me personally I love my husband and wanted to. Sounds like OP's partner did at one point in time, too. But things change. It's "just" paper, but divorce can be messy. Why complicate something that works? I can see her side, too.
Mmm... I mean... Here's the thing, you two are always going to be connected now you have kids together so it's not like she's going to be out of your life if you just end it. I'd be interested to know why she feels pressured and what's making her hesitant. If she's not putting it completely off the table, it seems silly to end a perfectly good relationship filled with love, over marriage hesitation? I think it's worth having deeper conversations about why she's feeling pressured before you pull the plug. You might regret making such a quick decision on that one. Maybe it's worth going to marriage counselling to talk this one out, see if there's some deeper problems here that's holding her back? If counselling doesn't work and actually she's just not interested in marriage, even if she sees you as her forever but that's a deal breaker for you then yes, of course break up as you have different values but, it seems like you're quick to quit on this one.
No you’re not. Have a serious talk. Does she still want to get married? What’s a timeline? Where is this pressure feeling coming from after all this time?
Something about you is giving her pause.
I would tell her "dude you have a house together and children, what do you think you are missing out? You are already into it". To me, it is really immature of her not to say the least.
Was her 1st marriage/divorce ugly? We don't know the history. Try talking to her, couples therapy, maybe. Are there religious reasons? I've been with my guy 25+ years, no ring, no on & off, two kids 19 & 12, no cheating (to my knowledge), but this works for us. Give her a chance to explain her side. I wish you good luck.
Commitment phobia. Red flag.
Wait I’m confused by the wording. Is she wanting to get married to you or not? Is kinda weird especially at this point, but if she doesn’t you might want to ask why. Some people have a weird view of what marriage means and don’t want it. She’s been divorced, was she screwed over? If so there may be a protection mechanism thing here.
You have kids together? And engaged for five years? And she’s not ready? Sorry to say, but it’s time for the ultimatum. You’re already thinking about leaving her. You need to tell her straight up you want to get married!
Wow I guess better late than never :P I'd say after having >0 children, it's already behind schedule. Just say it's for financial efficiency :P
The only way this could be real is if she makes considerably more than you do.
What do you mean she feels pressured? By you? By others? I feel like I'm missing information here.
After rrading the horror stories on Reddit involving martied couples, the lasting anybody should want to do is to get married.
I will never understand people who buy property together and HAVE CHILDREN TOGETHER but decide marriage is too much of a commitment. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me. At this point you're just as committed as if you were married, so what is her reasoning? You should go to counseling where a third party can help the two of you navigate this, as I suspect having both been divorced, she's likely dealing with some trauma from her previous marriage.
After all that time and 2 kids, it's just a pointless expense. If you're serious, you need to treat her like she's special for five minutes.
Not really, legally each of their next of kin isn’t one another, it’s their respective parents. If either one of them is incapacitated, unlike with a husband or wife, neither of them will be the one able to make any medical decisions and neither has any right to even see the other person in the hospital if they one hospitalized is unable to make their own decisions. If one of them dies or is hospitalized and isn’t able to express their wishes, the other can be cut out of everything, because legally, they have no right to make any of the decisions for anything to do with one another in the event of death or incapacitation. If they own a house together, and there’s not something saying that if one of them dies the other gets the house, the parents of the dead partner have more of a claim to their child’s half of the house than the person who actually bought it. There are a lot of legal protections that marriage gives you, and having kids and being together for a long time doesn’t change that.
Sounds like trauma on her part. She should seek out therapy to help her get to the root of the issue.
Perhaps the divorce from her previous marriage was so horrible it has made her hesitant at the thought of getting married again? Just a guess, but I know a few people who have been completely and utterly destroyed both emotionally and financially from their divorce. What do you think?
Who is pressuring her? Feeling pressure is a stupid reason to get married! The only reason you should get married is because you BOTH want to and are ready for it! If sometime is pressuring you to change your life's timeline cut them out of your life! They are not living your life and they get NO say in it! She needs to get a backbone and stand up to the people pressuring her!
It's about how she feels. Not you.
I can’t tell by your writing if she feels reluctant or if you do. Can you clarify? Either way, get married. You have property and children. You both need legal protections. If one of you goes into hospital the other cant make decisions. If you or her die it’s possible your property can be inherited upwards to parents rather than to each other. Get married or get wills and power of attorney docs so you have protection of your assets, children and medical decisions.
Of course she feels pressured. It would be odd if she didn't feel pressured. Why are you taking offense to that?
Have you started pressuring her into marrying you. If not start looking what’s causing the problem an affair the kids you something is causing this rift good luck
I’ve brought it up a lot more recently, and so has our oldest child. Because of me and our oldest bringing it up she said she feels pressured and isn’t ready.
Why do you need marriage? You already have the life, maybe let her sort out whatever is stressing her out. Maybe if it’s something important to you, therapy would be a good path?
I don’t need it, but I do want it, I want to be a husband and have a wife, just for the commitment aspect of love and the values marriage brings. These are my opinions on it she may feel differently, obviously i suppose
I get wanting to be married. I’m not sure what else you are getting at. “The values marriage brings” reads like some sexist ownership bs (so I will assume that isn’t what you mean). You two already have kids together. Commitment.
Not overreacting. Anyone not excited to fully dive into a marriage at this point is searching for someone else. Time to go your separate ways.
It may just be too late and we are at this crossroad now, no indication of that on her side and definitely not mine but things can change in an instant.
So you had one fail marriage now you want another
I was young the first time around, I learned a lot from it about myself and what I could have done better and apply that to my current relationship. Marriage is scary for sure and not for everyone.
You already have a life partner and two children. What’s wrong with you? You want to walk away because your ego is bruised?
Yet if this was reversed, and a woman had been engaged to a man for years with the man "feeling pressured" to actually get married to her, the advice to that woman would be to cut him loose.
No it wouldn’t. Not every woman wants marriage at all. If they are in a long term relationship with kids and commitments that’s freaking a commitment same as marriage. Even legally there are the same cohabitation rights once kids are on the scene
Def don’t want to walk away that’s the last thing I want. I just want to be with someone who wants to be with me for life.
This is probably an unpopular take, but purely from a strategic standpoint you probably shouldn’t marry her. You’re basically paying family with her but without all the obligations; if you get married you’d just be more tied down legally and if worst comes to worst it’ll be harder to leave her. And the reason I bring up the worst case scenario is because it’s obvious that she’s not committed. Women only act this way if they’re not vested in their relationship or if they don’t feel safe and secure; regardless of which it is marrying her after she made her feelings apparent is a huge risk to you. Now you two can try and talk it out (professional counseling) or leave; if you want, but do not try to push for marriage!
Yes you are overreacting. Think of the kids. You said you want to spend forever with your fiancée and I am assuming she feels the same. The kids lives will be destroyed if you leave. Her not wanting to get married shouldn’t be what breaks up your family. Y’all love each other and have kids. Geez, be happy. Stay.
Two more years living like this and it's a common-law marriage. I'm so sorry that she's "not feeling it" now. That's an awful blow to an established family. Perhaps some couples therapy would help her see what the block is?
it’s usually me that needs the therapy according to her, she said she’s open to couples therapy but I need to set it all up.
Couples therapy. There was something important that happened those few months prior that's stuck in her head. Is "the bedroom" activities going good for both of you? Everything else sounds good, why would she not want to stay w/ you forever? Just asking, I haven't read anything other than she turns u down sometimes.
Please remember that you have two children together! You're talking about walking out on your family because your pride is hurt?
Not my pride, just want to make that special commitment and be husband and wife.
What seems clear is that while you were the one 'undecided' about marriage, you were perfectly happy. Now that the tables have turned and it's your partner who is 'undecided', you are no longer happy. So, while you held the power of being 'undecided' everything was ok but, now that your partner holds that power, everything is definitely not ok. You are offended - how could she possibly not want me now that I have said I'm available. Maybe you have fucked around and found out.
This I agree with unfortunately, I can’t take back the past just trying to be more open and communicative. I said this in another comment I do not want to be a victim here at all.
Yes you are overreacting and don’t be surprised if one day you come home and the kids are gone and she’s moved out. It’s time to shit or get off the pot.
I would never let her take the kids but def don’t want this to happen when I am say 40 and the dating scene is hard asf. I don’t even think I want to fall in love ever again after this.
Please Google “benefits of getting married” you can use country and/or state. There’s a lot of financial and other benefits to get married. Thats why we gays wanted it so much!
Ask what or more importantly who brought these feelings of doubt in her. If she doesn’t know after a 5 year engagement she may not know.