*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for telling my son's birth mom that she's more like a sister?**
I adopted my son when he was born. It was an open adoption but the birth mom (Beth) was so greatly ashamed of being a teen mom that she didn't follow up on any contact. Which was fine because I had no intention of involving her too much.
The truth is that Ethan grew up with two dads and three older brothers. We always try to have him spend time with girls. A couple of years ago when Ethan was 9, Beth reached out to see how he was doing. I think she spent the last nine year being an overachiever so she'd feel worthy of having a relationship with Ethan. Ivy league, married a hedge fund dude, yoga, etc.
Ethan is incredibly self aware and intellectual. You cannot bullshit him so he and I enjoy a very open relationship. I told him his mom reached out to me and asked about him. I emphasized that she didn't forget him but she had to go away to work on herself. I asked how'd he feel about talking with her and he said he was open to it.
They have a good relationship and spend time together. He's met her husband. It's been a good thing to know his bio family.
Ethan is starting 6th grade and he has to pick an elective class. There has been arguments about what that class will be. Anyways,he told Beth about it and she fucked up by getting involved with the matter. She said what's the big deal about his doing yearbook. He should do what he wants to do. It's his class.
I was like you got me fucked up. I said girl you are not his mom. You're more like a siblings and siblings don't get a say in parenting decisions. You take a backseat. You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place.
She didn't say anything and went radio silent. I was the bigger person and reached out. I said I've been raising that kid for 11 years so it was triggering for you to give your two parenting cents. You need to understand that. He understands that so you should too.
I guess she's waiting for ME to apologize for something she did. I will not. Once you do that then everything goes bad.
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Copied verbatim from Oop's comments:
>>*Ethan is starting 6th grade and he has to pick an elective class. There has been arguments about what that class will be. Anyways,he told Beth about it and she fucked up by getting involved with the matter. She said what's the big deal about his doing yearbook. He should do what he wants to do. It's his class.*
>>*I was like you got me fucked up. I said girl you are not his mom. You're more like a siblings and siblings don't get a say in parenting decisions. You take a backseat. You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place.*
*Well, your son did involve her by telling her about and she offered some advice. YTA Your reaction to someone's response to a conversation with your son was over the top and extremely dramatic.*
>She wasn't asked for advice by anyone
*YTA. She was asking an honest question and you approached her aggressively and undermined her while you were at it. sounds like there may be some underlying control issues and maybe some insecurities about her involvement in his life….*
>It's not her business
*You’re right. You are the parent and not Beth. So **act** like a parent and give Ethan the tools and means to analyse and make his own decisions. YTA*
*Your son asked for her perspective and opinion, and she gave it. Her view on things isn’t wrong. What **is** wrong however, is trying to control your son’s life to the point he can never hear a perspective or opinion that isn’t your own.*
*That’s over-sensitive about the adoption at best and over controlling to the point of being part of a much, much bigger problem at worse - and that’s all on you.*
*You know what a normal actual dad does? They sit with their son - you know, the one that you said was so smart and couldn’t be bullshitted - and talk about what he wants and why he feels that way, and why you feel a different choice is important. You encourage him to get different perspectives and how to analyse the perspectives that everyone has given him rather than take **any** of them - Beth’s or yours - as gospel. You **let him be part of the decisions about his own life**.*
>My son didn't ask her for anything. He told her that he wanted to do yearbook but I want him to do leadership.
*I mean, is she wrong? Your son is in 6th grade, he's 11 years old, why can't he do yearbook if that's what he wants to do? Why should you get to choose his elective class, she's correct, it's HIS class.*
*You sound extremely controlling.*
*Eta: YTA*
>I don't know any parent who is letting their 6th grader pick their elective without veto power.
*YTA. Beth said nothing wrong. Ethan asked her and she responded. A sibling would do the same as would an aunt, uncle, grandparent etc. And what is wrong with yearbook?*
*Additionally, going into an open adoption and then stating "I had no intention of involving her much anyway" is not okay. It smacks of ill intentions surrounding the adoption. Also calling his bio mom, who has had a positive impact on his life, a seat filler is only going to end in him not having a relationship with you in the future and choosing her and her family.*
>He didn't ask her anything. It was a random quip about my telling him that he can't do yearbook this year. He complained to everyone and only one person said something.
*YTA. Ethan clearly asked for her opinion about what class to take. She is waiting for you to apologize cause what you said was horrible and it sounds like you never wanted her in his life.*
>He didn't ask her anything.
*She did not "fuck up" for giving her opinion when asked. Ethan should have some say over what he does. Educational psychologist perspective: YTA!!!*
>He has choices over some things he does but I have veto.
I’m going to bet the son actually asked his mom for help because OOP is a steam roller, but the son is too afraid to say so.
OOP is *waaaay* to controlling, and if OOP keeps it up, son is going to go NC and run right into mom’s arms the second he turns 18.
My mom was like this, forcing me to take band instead of choir and tried to make me play the sax so I could share it with my sister. She ended up giving me some flexibility by saying I could play anything except the clarinet bc it's so obnoxious. Guess who got to listen to me honk out hot cross buns poorly for the next 3 yrs as a second chair clarinet player lol
I was forced to play violin. I was TERRIBLE at it, and had no interest in getting better.
My mother wasted *thousands* of pounds on brand new instruments and private tutoring and membership to an orchestra. Bragged to all her friends that I was the next biggest violin prodigy.
I just played chess with my tutor and then banshee-screeched my way through recitals lol
It was only after the orchestra kicked me out that she let me quit.
I used to love playing music as well, and dreamed of learning the piano. But she had her heart set on violin, so fuck whatever I wanted.
We haven't spoken in years, and my life is better for it. Just in case OOP was wondering :)
My fiance recently bought me a kalimba 'cause it was cheap, but still used a normal piano scale. I'm really enjoying it, TBH.
Maybe one day I'll pick up a keyboard!
I had a tape recorder that I recorded myself playing my whole practice routine bc I had to practice every single day and I'd just set that up by the basement steps to play while I just read or something. I HATED band, idk why she willingly wasted all that money bc I'm actually a pretty good singer and id go hang out w my friends during choir practice and sing with them sometimes and the teacher even asked if I wanted her to talk to my mom about letting me switch but i knew my mom would just flip out and make me stop hanging out in there
Ha, my kid had a choice between band and choir and really wanted band.
I reminded her that she's not a fan of some noises ( autistic) but if she wanted bands, she could do band. But remember the first step in being good at this was going to be being BAD at it. And her loop earplugs could reach their limit because this was going to be the start of every day...
Then i googled "freshman band warm up video" and played it.
And she said 'so.... choir. I meant to say i really want to do choir ;)"
Seriously 😒. The only thing my mother had any influence on me was to take consumer math in high school for a full year's credit . (That pesky thing that gets posted on Facebook on why don't schools teach this kind of thing).my brain latched onto that a lot quicker than geometry (which I took the following year. Made up rest in college). School was ... Rough to say the least... In middle and high school (ended up getting GED and then college) but those types of classes were what kept me going for so long.
I didn't either until I became an adolescent therapist 🙃 these parents have me pulling my hair out with the way they approach school activities. Like please let your child relax and be their own person, middle school is hard enough without being micromanaged
Why can’t parents let kids be kids? Yes, we’re raising adults, but they go to school 8 hours a day- can’t ONE of those hours be fun and build social skills, diplomacy, team function… and leadership? Why would a leadership class be more beneficial than yearbook or whatever?
I’m the parent that put my foot down with my kiddo who has learning barriers- NO homework. It’s in his IEP. He does his schoolwork, participates in his classes, and is respectful to his teachers and classmates. I work full time and get about 2-3 hours a day with my kids before bed. I was not spending those hours fighting my child on the HARDEST part of life for him. I want him to play, hang with friends, spend time with family and be a typical kid not fighting his brain for a few hours a day. That, to me, was far more important than exceeding his grade level- I’m perfectly happy with him staying in the normal range of grade level without needing to be “top of the class”
They only kids for a little while. Parents need to let them have childhood. There’s plenty of time for all of that other stuff later
You're the type of parent I dream of coming across during my sessions 😭 I have no clue why "let kids be kids" has been THE MOST difficult concept for these parents to grasp but I find myself going on this exact rant like 5 times a day. It's so exhausting.
I know someone like that and I asked the other day how they have the energy to care at all about such small things. Like do you really have nothing better to do or think about.
I was so proud when my kid build the confidence to just pick (their dad is more about wanting a say so it was a big step} and then I logged them in for online ordering their supples, best registration yet!
This reminds me of another conversation I have to continuously have with parents: when a kid is given the power to make their own decisions wherever possible/appropriate, they learn to trust their own decisions. When these kids grow into tiny adults and then even bigger adults, they will have the confidence and motivation to make their own path in the world. When you take away their choices, you are essentially taking away their independence, guaranteeing that they will rely on you well into adulthood.
I often struggle with decisions, so I started small and every year I pass more responsiblity and decision making and expecations in the hope that as an adult they'll remember how we worked through things to make choices and be confident in doing so.
when i was a freshman i was told i could take one of two electives, floral design or accounting. I obviously picked floral design because who wants to take a class on accounting and i thought it be an easy A. My father who was terrified that id become gay made me take accounting. First of all, good job Dad now im trans and gay, secondly it was a great decision since the accounting teacher didnt care and we just played games on the computer all day lol.
Honestly if I had been hired to try and teach ninth graders accounting I would’ve done the same lmao. I’m with you, like what’s even the point?
I wish my high school had had floral design though- that class sounds rad as hell!
>hired to try and teach ninth graders accounting
it was a junior and senor level class they let me take because there were no other classes available (except floral design) and i "excelled" in my courses. By excel i mean i just did my work and was put into the top 10% of my class by default.
They're not. OP is delusional. I teach middle school and the kids just apply for next year's electives in their ELA class. It's all computer based. My only students who even talk to their parents about it are the ones applying for a class that need a parent form filled out, like AVID or whatever..
Even in high school, my parents just cared that I was getting the core classes I needed and didn't care about electives. They asked what classes I was taking but didn't make a big deal about it
My parents let me take what I wanted. My son has picked all his own classes, he picked which language he wanted. I ask so I know what he will take by I don’t make the call for him. It’s his classes.
All this boo-hooing over the kid taking an elective he enjoys is only going to alienate him from his own (step)father. FFS, he's a kid, not a college student dropping out to arse around.
My kid is starting middle school this year There was a meeting for parents and students to go over scheduling and elective choices and then my kid picked his electives and chose a foreign language to study. He didn’t choose what I would have, but the most we said was, Are you sure? X or Y might be more useful. And he was sure, so we sent in the form.
That's because the only reason to be this worked up about it is if the kid's school is offering a 'Yay, Meth!' elective. And even then, he might be overrreactng...
So, my school actually had one elective that was just guests from all sorts of different careers. Logic being, you don't ever really realise what all the options out there are I guess. And the forensics investigator came in with "Alright everyone, can we all cheer 'Yay meth', because whenever its meth you know you're going to get a story out of it".
He was actually a really great guest to have in - he knew exactly where the line for appropriate was for teenagers. But your comment did kick off a long forgotten memory.
Pretty much this for me. As long as it didn't involve pricey after-school activities, my brother and I were basically allowed to do whatever electives we wanted. Same thing going into high school, which is why I took all of the home ec electives. Very easy classes and perfect for my creative hands. XD
My first elective pick was which language I wanted to take in 8th grade, and then after that which science courses I wanted to take. My parents sure as hell didn’t care which courses I took as long as I actually passed the courses.
I have to help with science choices only because we have 2 different paths for 4 different sciences, and some will better fit the top few career choices, it's so much more complicated than it should be!
That’s understandable. When I was in school Biology I was required and after that was a pick between Chem or Physics and after that you didn’t have to pick another science elective because they had their own path (Chem led to Bio II and Physics to more Physics) so it was a simpler choice. I went to school where Latin was required though on top of another language so the Latin electives when you got to that point was a bit more complicated. I ended up moving states before getting to that point, but if I had stayed I wouldn’t have been able to ask my parents for help.
My kid has crammed every art elective into middle school that you could do. She's bright and capable and really gifted in other (more marketable$$$) areas. it's been implied that i should "make"get so an elective that is going to help her more in the future....i figure knowing what you like and knowing how to relax is something she needs for the future.
(She also declined some advanced gifted classes and any AP classes in 9th grade next year. She knows her own drive- what good could POSSIBLY come from me trying to make her into a stressed out wreck?
But some of her friends have to skip art for "Enrichment" things that will look good on admission forms)
The closest I can remember either parent getting to my elective selections was my mother pointing out that if I took Spanish I would be able to have tutoring from my brother’s Spanish tutor. I thought she was the coolest person ever so that worked well as a nudge towards my mother’s preference without being controlling.
My nephew is 11 and I'm 100% sure my sister and bil did not weigh in at all on his picks for next year. I didn't have electives in middle school, but I 100% know my parents wouldn't have either. OOP is acting like he could take underwater basket weaving; these are electives decided by a middle school as appropriate for middle schoolers.
My kid and his teachers sat down and discussed his elective options -- we trust both him and them to make the right decisions for his goals. The only things I chime in are with questions and suggestions.
As a parent, I mostly ask about burnout, lol. He's discussing making some really aggressive schedule changes for the last three years of high school, and my only concern is that he should make those choices because he wants to and they serve a purpose to whatever he sees himself doing with post-secondary education. He doesn't need to do the hardest version of something just because he wants to/feels like he has to prove he can.
"He has choices over some things he does but I have veto."
Translation: He can choose what he wants as long as he chooses what I want otherwise he doesn't get to choose.
So he doesn't have a choice.
Ok, I know i'm overly cynical and let me own bad experience with certain types of men color things but - I'm just going to throw this out here. Does this man hate women? I can't help but notice, he is in a same sex partnership, and they have adopted all boys. A woman, who happens to be the bio mom (and maybe a threat because she's a good person and highly accomplished) offers her opinion/advice and this guy just lashes out in a cruel way. I wonder if it would be different if it came from a male relative of his?
Ngl, the short bit about her achievements gave me a “hol’ up” moment. It was worded so… oddly to me. She became an “overachiever” to make up for having given Ethan up? Mentions Ivy League (is that a bad thing? That she’s educated?), being married to a successful man (stop the presses, oh no /s). Yoga for some reason (wtf).
Doesn’t he mean she just… grew up and matured? Did well for herself because she was given that opportunity thanks to you taking in her baby and giving him a stable and loving home? And now she wants to get to know Ethan and be a part of his life in some way.
Even if she were more like a sibling to the kiddo, what of it? She’s just defending his wants. Truly, what is the big deal with doing yearbook anyhow?
Even if he’s not meaning to come across as a misogynist, he still harshly overreacted to a simple question and was needlessly harsh to an individual that’s clearly on Ethan’s side. She advocated for him in what sounds like a casual but gentle manner, and dad just pulled rank and punched down on her as if she’d fucking pissed in his coffee while talking 🙄
I would almost guarantee that if it came from an uncle or male adult that it would be taken differently, but the same reaction if it was a female teacher or guidance counselor.
>I don't know any parent who is letting their 6th grader pick their elective without veto power.
This one is killing me. *What.* I've never met any parent who *didn't* just let their kid pick their elective when the school starts allowing it. Like sure my mom would ask us about what electives we wanted to do, but she never had actual veto power. I even remember in 10th grade, my mom thought I should take the composition elective since I'd have to take the class before I graduated, but because I wanted to do drama and had time I signed up for that instead. (And then transferred into comp a few weeks later when the drama class was more like helpers for the after school drama productions instead of what it had sounded like.)
Especially in 6th grade. I can see this argument being a little more understandable in high school under certain circumstances (mainly if there’s certain classes that would need to be taken before graduation and kiddo wants to try to graduate a little early, or if certain electives would look way better for a school they want to go to or career they want to pursue). But *6th grade*? What’s the point of that, even? If you can’t teach your kid leadership issues, that’s on you I think.
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?? Not to swerve the elephant in the room but even if she was just a sister figure, siblings weigh in on things like this all the time? I'm a little surprised that such a concept is foreign to a man with multiple children. Kids love giving their opinions on their siblings business.
The Pride Month trolls have branched out this year. Him being gay is incidental to the story until he starts being misogynistic and crude. I at least give it a B-minus for subtlety.
That's very fair. You either gotta do it from the top or not at all, breaking out half way is forced.
Here's a rewrite for the troll, by ChatGPT:
AITA for Reading My Son's Birth Mom to Filth?
Hey hunty, so here’s the tea. I adopted my son from birth, and his birth mom Beth was all about that closed-off life ‘cause she was too shook about being a teen mom. But when Ethan turned 9, sis suddenly wanted in, flaunting her Ivy League, hedge fund hubby, yoga queen vibe.
Now Ethan’s got two dads, three bros, and a fabulously open relationship with moi. So when I told him Beth was curious ‘bout him, he was cool to connect.
They bonded, sis met her new man, all good vibes ‘til Ethan’s elective drama. Beth overstepped, trying to school us on his yearbook pick. I’m like, “Hold up, sis, you’re more like a sib to him, not a mom. Know your place, take a seat.”
I reached out, being the bigger diva, but she’s playing the silent treatment, expecting an apology. Honey, not happenin’. Once you start apologizin’, it’s a slippery slope.
Or even anyone with aunts/uncles/cousins; I was the baby of the first gen of cousins in my family and absolutely went to my cool, older female cousin for advice because at 24 to my 13, she seemed infinitely wise in the ways of the world (started going to my older sister for advice later but at the time I couldn't admit that she would ever be right about anything).
Recently at a family gathering, one of my younger cousins who's about 11 was basically glued to me wanting to talk to me, specifically. I'm 25, and this comment just made it click that *she* probably sees me as a "wise and competent cool adult" instead of how I see myself and that was probably why she wanted to talk to me so much.
And homophobic (usually against bi and pan people) and transphobic. I've met more gay men that have cursed me out or tell me it's just a phase for my gender and sexuality than anyone else.
It might be some rightwinger cosplaying as a gay man with adopted children. That would explain why the guy is a cold, controlling jerk in the comments.
It is. "Girl you've got me fucked up" is not a sentence many gay men use in real life anymore. "The audacity" would have been more in line with actual phrases used. It's just another Pride Month troll.
I left another comment interacting with this but yeah, this is totally some pissed of conservative evangelical nutjob who is extremely late to "pissed about pride month" party 🤦
Ain't no hate like the Christian love dripping from every damn word of this post.
But then again I have come across some gay men who hate women and do indeed speak this viciously about them.
Some unfortunately are. One's sexuality or gender identity doesn't make them a good person. There are plenty of mean, exist, even racist and homo/transphobic people who are gay or lesbian and I've even come across a transphobic transwoman who thought she was better than other trans people and not like them at all because they, and I quote, "are a bunch of pink haired snowflakes."!
It's pretty heartbreaking each time you meet someone you hoped would be past the epic level bigotry only to find that they definitely aren't.
There's a bunch of British anti-gay adoption commercials showing gay men being cold and authoritarian to their children because 'men aren't nurturing'. This post really reminded me of all the stereotypes brought up in that kind of propaganda.
That part doesn't seem bad to me. OOP is saying his son grew up with 2 dads and only brothers, of course it's good for the son to also have some connection with girls.
He calls the mom girl as an insult. She is a grown woman. We try to have him around women and girls would be less of a red flag. Unless they don't have him around any adult women.
>He calls the mom girl as an insult
unfortunately, that's not necessarily an indication of this being fake. some gay men are as misogynistic as it gets.
>so it was triggering for you to give your two parenting cents.
If you have to be told to stop trying to force your kid onto a certain path, you need parenting cents, and a lot more of them than two.
Lmao this is such a good point.
Is “leadership” like a public speaking class? We rotated through all the major electives until high school, so I’m unfamiliar with what you’d even learn in a “leadership” class. IMO, leadership feels like a skill you could learn in any class. In fact, I would think your best bet for developing your child’s “leadership” skills is to let them dive into a subject they’re interested in so they’re inspired to take on more responsibility.
Also, as a former yearbook kid, yearbook became a journalism degree from one of the top jschools in the country became a prestigious career in advertising.
I'm surprised everyone is sort of glossing over the whole "birth mother is a sister thing"
What is the point of agreeing to an open adoption if you're just going to belittle and demean her role in his life?
As an adoptive/foster child..... OOP can go fuck themselves. My relationships with my biological parents are incredibly complex, complicated, and even toxic, but they are still my biological parents.
I'm incredibly close to my foster mom, in great part to the fact, she facilitated our relationships with our biological mother.
Also as a teen mother, I'm still his mother. Yes, I was 15 when he was born, and my foster mom raised him and me at the same time. But, make no mistake, I'm not his sister, I'm still his mother
I mean, even if Ethan does view her more like a sister than a parent OP is shooting himself in the foot by doing anything to come in between them when it’s not a safety issue. When Ethan asks why she’s gone radio silent OP either has to tell him that he told his mum she’s a placeholder (which will upset him because they have a good relationship) or lie (which his “self aware and intellectual” kid will eventually see through and then he’ll be upset nonetheless). Like what was there to gain here?
I'm offended by the the subpar trolling. Low effort, nothing original, the same derivative crap.
Attacking me because they're assuming they can hurt the feelings of an insecure young woman who was victimized byof statuary rape and the foster care system.
I'm in my 50s, my son is an adult with kids of his own. I was a foster parent for decades.
If you look at my comments, it's clear my family dynamics are complicated. I've talked a lot about being a young mother and struggling with alcoholism and PTSD, especially when my son was young. My son's an adult, our relationship hasn't always been easy, we've been to therapy, but we have a good relationship.
I've readily admitted I couldn't have raised my son for the first 5 years without my foster mom. He always lived with me. He is close to my foster mama. Not all families are nuclear and neatly defined as my subpar troll would like to think.
You clearly think I'm young, not that my son is an adult. Do you feel better for thinking you told a young woman struggling with raising a child after being raped at 14 that she's a shitty mother? A young woman who talked about being bounced around foster care? Do you feel powereful?
We both know you'd never have the balls to say that to someone in real life. I'm just embarrassed for you.
No, they are. Parenting is complex. They had a village to help them with their child. Just because someone helped raise her child doesn't mean they aren't their mother. Just means they had a support network.
You understood exactly what I meant. I don't even know what your point is here. Blocking now because if you had a meaningful argument you would have made it.
Or choir.
Ours was “pick band or choir”. And piano wasn’t allowed in band, so the piano from pre-k kids all went to choir because the parents didn’t want to buy another instrument.
In eighth grade I was so pissed that I had to choose between orchestra and choir. Choir hadn't been open to the earlier grades (just a general music class for six weeks) and in 8th grade it was set at the same time as orchestra and band. I gave up orchestra for it because I struggled with violin.
Had I known there was a new teacher who would start an after school choir I would have definitely stayed in orchestra no matter my proficiency .
In the School District my daughters are in middle school starts in the sixth grade. They have all kinds of electives so I think it probably just really depends on the School District.
In sixth and seventh grade we spent six weeks (one grading cycle) going to different elective classes to see what they were like. (On top of music). 7th grade could choose a foreign language, 8th grade we chose our own electives.. .every school/district/state can be drastically different.
My daughter is in Pre-K, and I sighed and bought a copy of the yearbook. The cheapest option, with zero personalization, because... it's pre-K? I haven't opened it yet, but I doubt she or her class actually appear in it in any real way.
The school goes through 8th grade, so it's not *just* another PTA blatant cash grab. (Just mostly.)
I thought the point of electives were they were the only thing that YOU, as a young student, could choose for yourself. A taste of independence or whateva. Hell, you’re the one who’s gotta take the class and they’re usually fun or at interesting classes available.
I know it’s been almost 20yrs since I was in high school, (don’t even wanna count how many since 6th grade) but damn, let the kid live. He’s picking a class, not living arrangements…yet..
In my POV as a fellow adopted kid this feels bigger than just her opinion on an elective. It’s that OOP views Ethan as HIS kid so she who gave him up has absolutely no business being in his life at all. Any kind of advice at all would be met with this level of venom due to his own insecurities and fears of his kid seeing someone else as his parent.
My mom did that to me as a kid when my birth mom tried to reach out and she shut it down and 15 years later I still remember it and judge her for it. I get where she was coming from, that fear of me potentially calling someone else ‘mom’, but that also didn’t give her the right to interfere with my relationship with my bio mom like that.
No one is saying that you know. But it feels like a troll post especially with the random "sassy" response to her when he hadn't written that way at all previously
Sure, but somehow all of them on AITA and similar subs seem to only exist in June, and randomly add in stereotypically “gay” phrases into their writing in the most unnatural way.
Uncritically accepting that as “Well some gay people are bad” is exactly what the writers of these posts intend. See also: trans people bad posts, fat people bad posts, polyamorous people bad posts, autistic people bad posts… bad people with these characteristics exist in the world, but AITA isn’t a random sample of the world, it’s a place where trolling and creative writing gets engagement and attention. Between the original sub, meta subs like this one, TikToks of text-to-speech voices over soap cutting videos, and YouTubers/podcasters discussing these posts in earnest - eventually a ton of people are having a ton of in depth discussions about how awful ____ people are. That’s not an accident.
Ok I am going with gay bad dad troll. After weighing everything.
Can a gay man adopt? Sure. Rare. Three older brothers, two dads. Can happen. But kind of uncommon for gay men to adopt babies. 1 percent of adopted kids with gay or lesbian couples, 3 percent with single gay or lesbian individuals, with lesbian couples more common then gay couples. So uncommon maybe more than rare?
I am not even going to bother to look up the odds of a teen mom giving up her kid and then getting into Ivy League and marrying a hedge fund guy. And doing yoga! So hard to get the yoga right. Anyway, not a lot of pregnant teens grow up to be Chelsea Clinton. In 9 years of having a baby! It could happen, but very uncommon.
Then, he talks to his child's bio mom like someone on Drag Race Untucked. He uses girl as an insult and says to keep to her place. I am certain grown ass gay men with four children can speak this inappropriately to an adult woman that literally bore his child (I don't mean his biokid) but I would say very uncommon.
Three very uncommon things feels really troll like and it is June, my friends.
.
But I have a sneaking fear this is true, Oop is white, and bio mom is a person of color. The disrespect oozes more than just misogyny.
I do feel like it’s playing on the stereotype of “gay men are catty, mean, and don’t like to straight women.”
*Don’t if it’s an actual thing but I could’ve sworn I heard that in passing.*
It's a definite thing. Yes, gay men are sometimes "catty" and can be misogynistic, but homophobes like to stereotype all gay men as being like that. And it's Pride month, so the lgbt bad trolls are all over.
All I can do is shake my damn head. I’m so, so tired of it…but I’m being honest, I keep coming back to these pages so it’s on me, lol. It’s like a car crash I can’t look away from.
He has big time control issues. Let the kid pick his electives.
I don't remember having them in middle school. During HS my parents let me choose whatever I wanted. Spanish was the main one I remember.
"Anyways,he told Beth about it and she fucked up by getting involved with the matter. She said what's the big deal about his doing yearbook. He should do what he wants to do. It's his class."
Sounds like Ethan invited an interested but potentially neutral party into the conversation and OOP didn't like it.
As someone who had meddling parents with what I took in school.... Kid's gonna hate you, OOP, and hell, it probably will bite not just you but him in the butt...
Ex. 1: I switched schools in 7th grade. I was in Algebra in my old school scoring an 86% average. When I switched, my mom made me take this math called IM7 which was something like an advanced pre-algebra I guess? Her hope was that I would get better grades in Algebra the second time around. Guess what my score was second time around? 86%! SO it bit me in the ass in 9th grade. How? Well my middle school had a great geometry teacher who also was the advisor of the math team. Had I not retaken the Algebra class, I would have had that geometry teacher. Instead, I got a pretty good teacher my first semester but second semester I got a teacher who HATED my first semester teacher and took it out on the students. I got C's as my quarter grades simply because she graded us down if we had my first semester teacher. I even took one of my flunked tests to my first sem teacher because I had no understanding of what I did wrong and he told me I should have gotten 100%. (In the end I still scored well because in my county they had a semester exam that counted for more than your quarter grades in your semester grades.)
Ex. 2: My parents were firm believers in me being in honors classes where possible. This included English. By the time I switched schools, this of course meant less of an emphasis on grammar and more writing and analyzation. (Remember, switched in 7th grade) Now, I am GREAT when it comes to grammar. But when it comes to writing, I am TERRIBLE at it, at least in a structured sense. I tend to write how I think, and as a person who thinks on high speed and in completely unrelated thoughts one after another, you can imagine this does not bode well. ESPECIALLY in timed situations. Trying to slow down what I am thinking, organize it, transfer it to paper, AND in a specific format, all in x amount of time? Are you kidding me? That was my hell until the second half of 10th grade when I moved to a different state that did not emphasize timed writing.
For the second half of 7th and all of 8th grade, I took honors English. My 8th grade teacher was a COMPLETE bitch. First of all, she HATED the band kids and thought we were trouble makers due to the fact we were always late. (This was not our fault. Our band teacher was often absent due to having some kind of cancer, I want to say leukemia, but can't remember. But the trumpet section in my band class was a NIGHTMARE to the subs. So we'd always have the entire band serving Interact [what most commonly is known as recess or break, sorry] detention when my band director was there. And my band classroom was by the gym on one side of the building while my English class was on the complete opposite side of the building. And we only had 5 mins to trudge through the entire building to get to class. And if memory serves, no. I did not have any of the troublemaker trumpets in my class.) So that always went against us. She docked points if we were late.
But add to it my nightmare that is writing and that made her hate ME! My dad was a lawyer and thus VERY good at writing, and when he was home (only about 50% of the time) he'd correct my papers for me. And he'd make me do them over and over again until he was satisfied. (I still have nightmares of him saying 'This is a D paper!') My teacher had become familiar with my writing very quickly I guess, and she always accused me of plagiarism. So the papers my dad had helped me on were always my worst papers. To this day, I maintain if I hadn't been in honors English 8th grade, I might have actually survived a bit better. This did mean I dropped to regular English for ninth grade. And my ninth grade teacher is and was my hero because she was willing to work with me and understood what I needed to succeed. But since I had an undiagnosed learning disability, she couldn't do much for my semester exams.
So how did I do? Well, thanks to the fact my county did grades by semester, and like I mentioned before, final exams were worth more than quarter grades, my 9th and 10th English grades completely dropped my GPA. (Thanks to my English teacher in 9th grade, I got straight A's for my quarter grades. Despite bombing exams completely, this meant I still managed C semester grades. 10th grade, I didn't have quite as amazing of a teacher. But I think it was more my 9th grade teacher understood better how to help someone with a learning disability. My 10th grade teacher was not bad by any means, and in fact I had fun in his class. He did give credit where credit was due. Like we had to do presentations on the Odyssey. I was the blind prophet Tyresias. And because it didn't make sense for a blind prophet to read off a paper, I memorized my presentation. Got extra credit for that. 🤣😂)
However, being in regular English in Utah thanks to low grades in Maryland was a godsend. At the end of 11th grade I was told I qualified for even AP English in 12th. I was tempted, but I was too scared since I only had been in regular English in high school. My parents wanted me to have a specific teacher (she was my Academic Decathlon coach) and the coach insisted that her regular English classes were full of dumb kids (not her exact words but essentially what she meant) so I needed to be in honors English. My parents were more than happy to listen to her over me. Guess who lost their straight A English average and maintained a C average in English senior year? Yup. Me.
My first B on a formal writing assignment actually happened in college. We were allowed free reign on the subject matter. I chose to write a paper on why we as Americans need to pay attention to China from a business perspective. Because it was a topic I chose and was highly interested in (Chinese history and culture, as well as Korean and Japanese, are extremely fascinating to me) I actually did well on it. (And not being timed helped too. 🤣😂)
Moral of the story: YOUR KIDS SURPRISINGLY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE CAPABLE OF! AND THEY KNOW WHAT THEY LIKE. THEY WILL DO BETTER WHEN IN SITUATIONS WHERE THEY LIKE THE SUBJECT MATTER AND ITS AT THEIR LEVEL!
Also what the hell is wrong with yearbook? leadership is useless since its all a popularity contest anyway!
I SWEAR I've seen this post before. Asshole gay dad. Underprivileged mom gives the kid up for adoption. I think in that post the adopted dad ghosted the mom and moved across the country despite one of the reasons for letting him adopt was that he'd live close by and was basically like "Well if she wanted to see her kid she shouldn't have given him up"
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This woman didn't adopt a child, she took on a project. She's manipulative and controlling, and she acts like her son is a piece of territory she has rights over.
This is why "open adoptions" are such bullshit. It's a carrot dangled over birth parents' heads to sweeten the deal and make adoption more palatable--when in reality, there is nothing legally binding the adoptive parent to the agreement and they can rescind it at any time. And frequently they opt to do so as soon as they leave the hospital with the baby.
Also, while I 100% know adoptive parents like this, I'm doubting the veracity of any of it. OOP writes like a middle-schooler at best. They come across as very uneducated, and there's a whole "Now, look here" quality to it that's amusing. I hear a feminine version of Foghorn Leghorn when I read it.
If the son never asked for her opinion, if he never told her about it, and she shoved her opinion down his throat then I'd get it. She'd be way overstepping. But HE brought it up with HER. Not the other way around. It's not like she said "you have to do this because I'm your mum and I say so". No need to be all aggressive with her and telling her to mind her place.
Yes because Gay men are all extremely controlling and instantly bring out the sassy voice in any conflict. Get out of here with this shit during pride. I am sick of it.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for telling my son's birth mom that she's more like a sister?** I adopted my son when he was born. It was an open adoption but the birth mom (Beth) was so greatly ashamed of being a teen mom that she didn't follow up on any contact. Which was fine because I had no intention of involving her too much. The truth is that Ethan grew up with two dads and three older brothers. We always try to have him spend time with girls. A couple of years ago when Ethan was 9, Beth reached out to see how he was doing. I think she spent the last nine year being an overachiever so she'd feel worthy of having a relationship with Ethan. Ivy league, married a hedge fund dude, yoga, etc. Ethan is incredibly self aware and intellectual. You cannot bullshit him so he and I enjoy a very open relationship. I told him his mom reached out to me and asked about him. I emphasized that she didn't forget him but she had to go away to work on herself. I asked how'd he feel about talking with her and he said he was open to it. They have a good relationship and spend time together. He's met her husband. It's been a good thing to know his bio family. Ethan is starting 6th grade and he has to pick an elective class. There has been arguments about what that class will be. Anyways,he told Beth about it and she fucked up by getting involved with the matter. She said what's the big deal about his doing yearbook. He should do what he wants to do. It's his class. I was like you got me fucked up. I said girl you are not his mom. You're more like a siblings and siblings don't get a say in parenting decisions. You take a backseat. You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place. She didn't say anything and went radio silent. I was the bigger person and reached out. I said I've been raising that kid for 11 years so it was triggering for you to give your two parenting cents. You need to understand that. He understands that so you should too. I guess she's waiting for ME to apologize for something she did. I will not. Once you do that then everything goes bad. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Copied verbatim from Oop's comments: >>*Ethan is starting 6th grade and he has to pick an elective class. There has been arguments about what that class will be. Anyways,he told Beth about it and she fucked up by getting involved with the matter. She said what's the big deal about his doing yearbook. He should do what he wants to do. It's his class.* >>*I was like you got me fucked up. I said girl you are not his mom. You're more like a siblings and siblings don't get a say in parenting decisions. You take a backseat. You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place.* *Well, your son did involve her by telling her about and she offered some advice. YTA Your reaction to someone's response to a conversation with your son was over the top and extremely dramatic.* >She wasn't asked for advice by anyone *YTA. She was asking an honest question and you approached her aggressively and undermined her while you were at it. sounds like there may be some underlying control issues and maybe some insecurities about her involvement in his life….* >It's not her business *You’re right. You are the parent and not Beth. So **act** like a parent and give Ethan the tools and means to analyse and make his own decisions. YTA* *Your son asked for her perspective and opinion, and she gave it. Her view on things isn’t wrong. What **is** wrong however, is trying to control your son’s life to the point he can never hear a perspective or opinion that isn’t your own.* *That’s over-sensitive about the adoption at best and over controlling to the point of being part of a much, much bigger problem at worse - and that’s all on you.* *You know what a normal actual dad does? They sit with their son - you know, the one that you said was so smart and couldn’t be bullshitted - and talk about what he wants and why he feels that way, and why you feel a different choice is important. You encourage him to get different perspectives and how to analyse the perspectives that everyone has given him rather than take **any** of them - Beth’s or yours - as gospel. You **let him be part of the decisions about his own life**.* >My son didn't ask her for anything. He told her that he wanted to do yearbook but I want him to do leadership. *I mean, is she wrong? Your son is in 6th grade, he's 11 years old, why can't he do yearbook if that's what he wants to do? Why should you get to choose his elective class, she's correct, it's HIS class.* *You sound extremely controlling.* *Eta: YTA* >I don't know any parent who is letting their 6th grader pick their elective without veto power. *YTA. Beth said nothing wrong. Ethan asked her and she responded. A sibling would do the same as would an aunt, uncle, grandparent etc. And what is wrong with yearbook?* *Additionally, going into an open adoption and then stating "I had no intention of involving her much anyway" is not okay. It smacks of ill intentions surrounding the adoption. Also calling his bio mom, who has had a positive impact on his life, a seat filler is only going to end in him not having a relationship with you in the future and choosing her and her family.* >He didn't ask her anything. It was a random quip about my telling him that he can't do yearbook this year. He complained to everyone and only one person said something. *YTA. Ethan clearly asked for her opinion about what class to take. She is waiting for you to apologize cause what you said was horrible and it sounds like you never wanted her in his life.* >He didn't ask her anything. *She did not "fuck up" for giving her opinion when asked. Ethan should have some say over what he does. Educational psychologist perspective: YTA!!!* >He has choices over some things he does but I have veto.
I didn't know parent's were so involved with middle school elective selection. I just picked what I wanted and my parents were fine with that lol.
I’m going to bet the son actually asked his mom for help because OOP is a steam roller, but the son is too afraid to say so. OOP is *waaaay* to controlling, and if OOP keeps it up, son is going to go NC and run right into mom’s arms the second he turns 18.
Lmao if my parents had a say in my electives I wouldn’t have been a 4’something middle schooler lugging a double bass home every Friday
My mom was like this, forcing me to take band instead of choir and tried to make me play the sax so I could share it with my sister. She ended up giving me some flexibility by saying I could play anything except the clarinet bc it's so obnoxious. Guess who got to listen to me honk out hot cross buns poorly for the next 3 yrs as a second chair clarinet player lol
I was forced to play violin. I was TERRIBLE at it, and had no interest in getting better. My mother wasted *thousands* of pounds on brand new instruments and private tutoring and membership to an orchestra. Bragged to all her friends that I was the next biggest violin prodigy. I just played chess with my tutor and then banshee-screeched my way through recitals lol It was only after the orchestra kicked me out that she let me quit. I used to love playing music as well, and dreamed of learning the piano. But she had her heart set on violin, so fuck whatever I wanted. We haven't spoken in years, and my life is better for it. Just in case OOP was wondering :)
You should get a cheap keyboard & YouTube tutorial some piano stuff if you still have some desire it's pretty fun
My fiance recently bought me a kalimba 'cause it was cheap, but still used a normal piano scale. I'm really enjoying it, TBH. Maybe one day I'll pick up a keyboard!
That's awesome! Learning to play that should make piano easier too :D
I had a tape recorder that I recorded myself playing my whole practice routine bc I had to practice every single day and I'd just set that up by the basement steps to play while I just read or something. I HATED band, idk why she willingly wasted all that money bc I'm actually a pretty good singer and id go hang out w my friends during choir practice and sing with them sometimes and the teacher even asked if I wanted her to talk to my mom about letting me switch but i knew my mom would just flip out and make me stop hanging out in there
Ha, my kid had a choice between band and choir and really wanted band. I reminded her that she's not a fan of some noises ( autistic) but if she wanted bands, she could do band. But remember the first step in being good at this was going to be being BAD at it. And her loop earplugs could reach their limit because this was going to be the start of every day... Then i googled "freshman band warm up video" and played it. And she said 'so.... choir. I meant to say i really want to do choir ;)"
Seriously 😒. The only thing my mother had any influence on me was to take consumer math in high school for a full year's credit . (That pesky thing that gets posted on Facebook on why don't schools teach this kind of thing).my brain latched onto that a lot quicker than geometry (which I took the following year. Made up rest in college). School was ... Rough to say the least... In middle and high school (ended up getting GED and then college) but those types of classes were what kept me going for so long.
I didn't either until I became an adolescent therapist 🙃 these parents have me pulling my hair out with the way they approach school activities. Like please let your child relax and be their own person, middle school is hard enough without being micromanaged
Why can’t parents let kids be kids? Yes, we’re raising adults, but they go to school 8 hours a day- can’t ONE of those hours be fun and build social skills, diplomacy, team function… and leadership? Why would a leadership class be more beneficial than yearbook or whatever? I’m the parent that put my foot down with my kiddo who has learning barriers- NO homework. It’s in his IEP. He does his schoolwork, participates in his classes, and is respectful to his teachers and classmates. I work full time and get about 2-3 hours a day with my kids before bed. I was not spending those hours fighting my child on the HARDEST part of life for him. I want him to play, hang with friends, spend time with family and be a typical kid not fighting his brain for a few hours a day. That, to me, was far more important than exceeding his grade level- I’m perfectly happy with him staying in the normal range of grade level without needing to be “top of the class” They only kids for a little while. Parents need to let them have childhood. There’s plenty of time for all of that other stuff later
You're the type of parent I dream of coming across during my sessions 😭 I have no clue why "let kids be kids" has been THE MOST difficult concept for these parents to grasp but I find myself going on this exact rant like 5 times a day. It's so exhausting.
If they ever DO use the phrase/ its to excuse crap behavior and avoid parenting… I swear… God bless you for what you do.
I know someone like that and I asked the other day how they have the energy to care at all about such small things. Like do you really have nothing better to do or think about. I was so proud when my kid build the confidence to just pick (their dad is more about wanting a say so it was a big step} and then I logged them in for online ordering their supples, best registration yet!
This reminds me of another conversation I have to continuously have with parents: when a kid is given the power to make their own decisions wherever possible/appropriate, they learn to trust their own decisions. When these kids grow into tiny adults and then even bigger adults, they will have the confidence and motivation to make their own path in the world. When you take away their choices, you are essentially taking away their independence, guaranteeing that they will rely on you well into adulthood.
I often struggle with decisions, so I started small and every year I pass more responsiblity and decision making and expecations in the hope that as an adult they'll remember how we worked through things to make choices and be confident in doing so.
I don’t think my parents even knew I had electives to choose. I never consulted them.
I don't think my parents even asked what my electives were 😂
Yeah, mine would pretty much only find out if I had a supply list for the class. Or when report cards came around.
when i was a freshman i was told i could take one of two electives, floral design or accounting. I obviously picked floral design because who wants to take a class on accounting and i thought it be an easy A. My father who was terrified that id become gay made me take accounting. First of all, good job Dad now im trans and gay, secondly it was a great decision since the accounting teacher didnt care and we just played games on the computer all day lol.
Honestly if I had been hired to try and teach ninth graders accounting I would’ve done the same lmao. I’m with you, like what’s even the point? I wish my high school had had floral design though- that class sounds rad as hell!
>hired to try and teach ninth graders accounting it was a junior and senor level class they let me take because there were no other classes available (except floral design) and i "excelled" in my courses. By excel i mean i just did my work and was put into the top 10% of my class by default.
My middle school kinda sucked. We didn’t have electives.
Same here. Also, it was a K through 8. Yay, shitty public schools!
They're not. OP is delusional. I teach middle school and the kids just apply for next year's electives in their ELA class. It's all computer based. My only students who even talk to their parents about it are the ones applying for a class that need a parent form filled out, like AVID or whatever..
Even in high school, my parents just cared that I was getting the core classes I needed and didn't care about electives. They asked what classes I was taking but didn't make a big deal about it
The closest my parents came to caring was handing me the list of "what to have if you plan to go to college" and recommending that I take a language.
My parents let me take what I wanted. My son has picked all his own classes, he picked which language he wanted. I ask so I know what he will take by I don’t make the call for him. It’s his classes.
All this boo-hooing over the kid taking an elective he enjoys is only going to alienate him from his own (step)father. FFS, he's a kid, not a college student dropping out to arse around.
That's how I remember it!
Right, and you can learn a lot about leadership and decision making in yearbook.
My kid is starting middle school this year There was a meeting for parents and students to go over scheduling and elective choices and then my kid picked his electives and chose a foreign language to study. He didn’t choose what I would have, but the most we said was, Are you sure? X or Y might be more useful. And he was sure, so we sent in the form.
That's because the only reason to be this worked up about it is if the kid's school is offering a 'Yay, Meth!' elective. And even then, he might be overrreactng...
So, my school actually had one elective that was just guests from all sorts of different careers. Logic being, you don't ever really realise what all the options out there are I guess. And the forensics investigator came in with "Alright everyone, can we all cheer 'Yay meth', because whenever its meth you know you're going to get a story out of it". He was actually a really great guest to have in - he knew exactly where the line for appropriate was for teenagers. But your comment did kick off a long forgotten memory.
Marketable, it's a growth industry! And so much chemistry!
Pretty much this for me. As long as it didn't involve pricey after-school activities, my brother and I were basically allowed to do whatever electives we wanted. Same thing going into high school, which is why I took all of the home ec electives. Very easy classes and perfect for my creative hands. XD
My first elective pick was which language I wanted to take in 8th grade, and then after that which science courses I wanted to take. My parents sure as hell didn’t care which courses I took as long as I actually passed the courses.
I have to help with science choices only because we have 2 different paths for 4 different sciences, and some will better fit the top few career choices, it's so much more complicated than it should be!
That’s understandable. When I was in school Biology I was required and after that was a pick between Chem or Physics and after that you didn’t have to pick another science elective because they had their own path (Chem led to Bio II and Physics to more Physics) so it was a simpler choice. I went to school where Latin was required though on top of another language so the Latin electives when you got to that point was a bit more complicated. I ended up moving states before getting to that point, but if I had stayed I wouldn’t have been able to ask my parents for help.
Seriously. It's 6th grade. Am I missing the yearbook-to-prison pipeline or...?
My kid has crammed every art elective into middle school that you could do. She's bright and capable and really gifted in other (more marketable$$$) areas. it's been implied that i should "make"get so an elective that is going to help her more in the future....i figure knowing what you like and knowing how to relax is something she needs for the future. (She also declined some advanced gifted classes and any AP classes in 9th grade next year. She knows her own drive- what good could POSSIBLY come from me trying to make her into a stressed out wreck? But some of her friends have to skip art for "Enrichment" things that will look good on admission forms)
The closest I can remember either parent getting to my elective selections was my mother pointing out that if I took Spanish I would be able to have tutoring from my brother’s Spanish tutor. I thought she was the coolest person ever so that worked well as a nudge towards my mother’s preference without being controlling.
My son picked his own classes, my daughter will pick hers when time comes.
My nephew is 11 and I'm 100% sure my sister and bil did not weigh in at all on his picks for next year. I didn't have electives in middle school, but I 100% know my parents wouldn't have either. OOP is acting like he could take underwater basket weaving; these are electives decided by a middle school as appropriate for middle schoolers.
I don’t even think my parents knew that there was an option.
My kid and his teachers sat down and discussed his elective options -- we trust both him and them to make the right decisions for his goals. The only things I chime in are with questions and suggestions. As a parent, I mostly ask about burnout, lol. He's discussing making some really aggressive schedule changes for the last three years of high school, and my only concern is that he should make those choices because he wants to and they serve a purpose to whatever he sees himself doing with post-secondary education. He doesn't need to do the hardest version of something just because he wants to/feels like he has to prove he can.
"He has choices over some things he does but I have veto." Translation: He can choose what he wants as long as he chooses what I want otherwise he doesn't get to choose. So he doesn't have a choice.
Agreed!
[Cat!](https://imgur.com/gallery/no-one-likes-competition-N7FPJ25)
You remain the greatest hero on website, thank you. Cat!
Thank you very kindly! 💜
I needed this. Awesome work, stw.
Glad to help! 🥰 Thank you very kindly! 💜
Ok, I know i'm overly cynical and let me own bad experience with certain types of men color things but - I'm just going to throw this out here. Does this man hate women? I can't help but notice, he is in a same sex partnership, and they have adopted all boys. A woman, who happens to be the bio mom (and maybe a threat because she's a good person and highly accomplished) offers her opinion/advice and this guy just lashes out in a cruel way. I wonder if it would be different if it came from a male relative of his?
Ngl, the short bit about her achievements gave me a “hol’ up” moment. It was worded so… oddly to me. She became an “overachiever” to make up for having given Ethan up? Mentions Ivy League (is that a bad thing? That she’s educated?), being married to a successful man (stop the presses, oh no /s). Yoga for some reason (wtf). Doesn’t he mean she just… grew up and matured? Did well for herself because she was given that opportunity thanks to you taking in her baby and giving him a stable and loving home? And now she wants to get to know Ethan and be a part of his life in some way. Even if she were more like a sibling to the kiddo, what of it? She’s just defending his wants. Truly, what is the big deal with doing yearbook anyhow? Even if he’s not meaning to come across as a misogynist, he still harshly overreacted to a simple question and was needlessly harsh to an individual that’s clearly on Ethan’s side. She advocated for him in what sounds like a casual but gentle manner, and dad just pulled rank and punched down on her as if she’d fucking pissed in his coffee while talking 🙄
I would almost guarantee that if it came from an uncle or male adult that it would be taken differently, but the same reaction if it was a female teacher or guidance counselor.
>I don't know any parent who is letting their 6th grader pick their elective without veto power. This one is killing me. *What.* I've never met any parent who *didn't* just let their kid pick their elective when the school starts allowing it. Like sure my mom would ask us about what electives we wanted to do, but she never had actual veto power. I even remember in 10th grade, my mom thought I should take the composition elective since I'd have to take the class before I graduated, but because I wanted to do drama and had time I signed up for that instead. (And then transferred into comp a few weeks later when the drama class was more like helpers for the after school drama productions instead of what it had sounded like.)
Especially in 6th grade. I can see this argument being a little more understandable in high school under certain circumstances (mainly if there’s certain classes that would need to be taken before graduation and kiddo wants to try to graduate a little early, or if certain electives would look way better for a school they want to go to or career they want to pursue). But *6th grade*? What’s the point of that, even? If you can’t teach your kid leadership issues, that’s on you I think.
Agreed. Glad you could switch when you wanted to!
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Dude really hates yearbook I forgot leadership was even an elective commonly provided until now (I did mixed media)
?? Not to swerve the elephant in the room but even if she was just a sister figure, siblings weigh in on things like this all the time? I'm a little surprised that such a concept is foreign to a man with multiple children. Kids love giving their opinions on their siblings business.
OOp’s a control freak.
Counterpoint: Girls are icky and shouldn't have a say in anything. 🙄
The Pride Month trolls have branched out this year. Him being gay is incidental to the story until he starts being misogynistic and crude. I at least give it a B-minus for subtlety.
I gotta bump it down to a C for the over the top sassy gay voice he breaks out halfway through the post. That was a bit much.
That's very fair. You either gotta do it from the top or not at all, breaking out half way is forced. Here's a rewrite for the troll, by ChatGPT: AITA for Reading My Son's Birth Mom to Filth? Hey hunty, so here’s the tea. I adopted my son from birth, and his birth mom Beth was all about that closed-off life ‘cause she was too shook about being a teen mom. But when Ethan turned 9, sis suddenly wanted in, flaunting her Ivy League, hedge fund hubby, yoga queen vibe. Now Ethan’s got two dads, three bros, and a fabulously open relationship with moi. So when I told him Beth was curious ‘bout him, he was cool to connect. They bonded, sis met her new man, all good vibes ‘til Ethan’s elective drama. Beth overstepped, trying to school us on his yearbook pick. I’m like, “Hold up, sis, you’re more like a sib to him, not a mom. Know your place, take a seat.” I reached out, being the bigger diva, but she’s playing the silent treatment, expecting an apology. Honey, not happenin’. Once you start apologizin’, it’s a slippery slope.
Fake or not, absolutely. Gay? Only male children? Almost certainly doesn’t like women and avoids them whenever possible
Icky is calling a grown woman girl.
I wager that was the point. Yes it didn't had an /s, bit the eyetoll emoji easily conveyed the same.
Or even anyone with aunts/uncles/cousins; I was the baby of the first gen of cousins in my family and absolutely went to my cool, older female cousin for advice because at 24 to my 13, she seemed infinitely wise in the ways of the world (started going to my older sister for advice later but at the time I couldn't admit that she would ever be right about anything).
Recently at a family gathering, one of my younger cousins who's about 11 was basically glued to me wanting to talk to me, specifically. I'm 25, and this comment just made it click that *she* probably sees me as a "wise and competent cool adult" instead of how I see myself and that was probably why she wanted to talk to me so much.
It's funny when you don't feel particularly adult-like but someone younger than you is all, you're so smart and grown-up, I must learn more from you.
Good point. My sister influenced what classes I took because she knew the school and teachers. My parents didn't.
Yes, they love having opinions but most parents don't entertain that and push back pretty hard. As they should in most situations.
"We always try to have him spend time with girls" is not a sentence that should have been needed. I get the feeling OOP is sexist.
Some of the most misogynistic shit I have ever heard has come from gay men.
And homophobic (usually against bi and pan people) and transphobic. I've met more gay men that have cursed me out or tell me it's just a phase for my gender and sexuality than anyone else.
Yup.
It's a pride month.troll so probably not gay
It might be some rightwinger cosplaying as a gay man with adopted children. That would explain why the guy is a cold, controlling jerk in the comments.
>I said girl [guuurl]… *Z-snap and sashay away*
Yeah, gaybad troll does make a lot of sense.
Agreed, I think this is pride month rage bait
It is. "Girl you've got me fucked up" is not a sentence many gay men use in real life anymore. "The audacity" would have been more in line with actual phrases used. It's just another Pride Month troll.
I left another comment interacting with this but yeah, this is totally some pissed of conservative evangelical nutjob who is extremely late to "pissed about pride month" party 🤦 Ain't no hate like the Christian love dripping from every damn word of this post. But then again I have come across some gay men who hate women and do indeed speak this viciously about them.
I'm hoping no gay man is this authoritarian and rigid about his child's decisions.
being gay doesn't automatically make someone a good person. gay men can be exactly as controlling, abusive, and authoritarian as straight men.
Some unfortunately are. One's sexuality or gender identity doesn't make them a good person. There are plenty of mean, exist, even racist and homo/transphobic people who are gay or lesbian and I've even come across a transphobic transwoman who thought she was better than other trans people and not like them at all because they, and I quote, "are a bunch of pink haired snowflakes."! It's pretty heartbreaking each time you meet someone you hoped would be past the epic level bigotry only to find that they definitely aren't.
There's a bunch of British anti-gay adoption commercials showing gay men being cold and authoritarian to their children because 'men aren't nurturing'. This post really reminded me of all the stereotypes brought up in that kind of propaganda.
Great. Just what Brits need. Even more anti lgbtq sentiment... /s
There are Log Cabin Republicans, and they are the worst of the worst when it comes to gay men
Actually, that makes the most sense because the rage in this post is totally over-the-top.
There are plenty of right wing gay men. Trump got almost half of the gay vote.
Ugh I would disagree with you but I had to leave r/askgaybros recently because the right wing gays on there have overtaken the damn place.
No he didn’t https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/12/01/had-lgbt-voters-stayed-home-trump-might-have-won-2020-presidential-election/
Gays, not Lgbt, just g https://thepinknews.com/2020/09/15/donald-trump-joe-biden-2020-us-presidential-elections-vote-queer-men-hornet/
Uhm the 45% was in a poll of 1200 people. Later in the article it says another poll showed only 27% in support of Trump.
Ding ding ding.
That part doesn't seem bad to me. OOP is saying his son grew up with 2 dads and only brothers, of course it's good for the son to also have some connection with girls.
He calls the mom girl as an insult. She is a grown woman. We try to have him around women and girls would be less of a red flag. Unless they don't have him around any adult women.
>He calls the mom girl as an insult unfortunately, that's not necessarily an indication of this being fake. some gay men are as misogynistic as it gets.
You're right but I took it as being friends with girls his age.
So did I until he called the bio mom girl
I agree with that, but it’s not really relevant to this story so it’s a little odd that he included it
>so it was triggering for you to give your two parenting cents. If you have to be told to stop trying to force your kid onto a certain path, you need parenting cents, and a lot more of them than two.
He wants his son to learn leadership. How? By following strict rules and avoiding communication.
Lmao this is such a good point. Is “leadership” like a public speaking class? We rotated through all the major electives until high school, so I’m unfamiliar with what you’d even learn in a “leadership” class. IMO, leadership feels like a skill you could learn in any class. In fact, I would think your best bet for developing your child’s “leadership” skills is to let them dive into a subject they’re interested in so they’re inspired to take on more responsibility. Also, as a former yearbook kid, yearbook became a journalism degree from one of the top jschools in the country became a prestigious career in advertising.
I hate it when people misuse the word trigger. Also, this dude sucks
I'm surprised everyone is sort of glossing over the whole "birth mother is a sister thing" What is the point of agreeing to an open adoption if you're just going to belittle and demean her role in his life?
As an adoptive/foster child..... OOP can go fuck themselves. My relationships with my biological parents are incredibly complex, complicated, and even toxic, but they are still my biological parents. I'm incredibly close to my foster mom, in great part to the fact, she facilitated our relationships with our biological mother. Also as a teen mother, I'm still his mother. Yes, I was 15 when he was born, and my foster mom raised him and me at the same time. But, make no mistake, I'm not his sister, I'm still his mother
I mean, even if Ethan does view her more like a sister than a parent OP is shooting himself in the foot by doing anything to come in between them when it’s not a safety issue. When Ethan asks why she’s gone radio silent OP either has to tell him that he told his mum she’s a placeholder (which will upset him because they have a good relationship) or lie (which his “self aware and intellectual” kid will eventually see through and then he’ll be upset nonetheless). Like what was there to gain here?
You are simply not, and it’s sad that you delude yourself thinking otherwise. That poor child
This is such a rude comment to make.
I'm offended by the the subpar trolling. Low effort, nothing original, the same derivative crap. Attacking me because they're assuming they can hurt the feelings of an insecure young woman who was victimized byof statuary rape and the foster care system. I'm in my 50s, my son is an adult with kids of his own. I was a foster parent for decades.
as rude as this person pretending they’re someone’s mother.
You have no idea of their family dynamics.
If you look at my comments, it's clear my family dynamics are complicated. I've talked a lot about being a young mother and struggling with alcoholism and PTSD, especially when my son was young. My son's an adult, our relationship hasn't always been easy, we've been to therapy, but we have a good relationship. I've readily admitted I couldn't have raised my son for the first 5 years without my foster mom. He always lived with me. He is close to my foster mama. Not all families are nuclear and neatly defined as my subpar troll would like to think.
And you do?
You clearly think I'm young, not that my son is an adult. Do you feel better for thinking you told a young woman struggling with raising a child after being raped at 14 that she's a shitty mother? A young woman who talked about being bounced around foster care? Do you feel powereful? We both know you'd never have the balls to say that to someone in real life. I'm just embarrassed for you.
The "poor" child is 40 years old, Boo. On the other hand, your trolling is sub par.
As subpar as your parenting it seems!!
Not nearly as subpar as your intellect.
No, they are. Parenting is complex. They had a village to help them with their child. Just because someone helped raise her child doesn't mean they aren't their mother. Just means they had a support network.
So they planned on ghosting bio mom post adoption? OOP was a shitbag from the start.
Read the second sentence of the post, it seems like you skipped it
Nope, I read it. "No intention of involving her too much" = we told her the adoption would be open to get the kid but we lied.
That's the third sentence, try recounting
You understood exactly what I meant. I don't even know what your point is here. Blocking now because if you had a meaningful argument you would have made it.
I wonder if he really said "girl, you fuxked up" The person who wrote this post sounds like a ten year old.
I do not remember getting electives until I was in high school. 6th grade? Huh. Also didn't have a yearbook until high school. Is this a thing now?
If your parents had you take band or orchestra, you might ot have thought you didn't have an elective.
Or choir. Ours was “pick band or choir”. And piano wasn’t allowed in band, so the piano from pre-k kids all went to choir because the parents didn’t want to buy another instrument.
In eighth grade I was so pissed that I had to choose between orchestra and choir. Choir hadn't been open to the earlier grades (just a general music class for six weeks) and in 8th grade it was set at the same time as orchestra and band. I gave up orchestra for it because I struggled with violin. Had I known there was a new teacher who would start an after school choir I would have definitely stayed in orchestra no matter my proficiency .
In the School District my daughters are in middle school starts in the sixth grade. They have all kinds of electives so I think it probably just really depends on the School District.
I also went to middle school in the 6th grade, but none of this stuff happened until high school aka 9th grade.
In sixth and seventh grade we spent six weeks (one grading cycle) going to different elective classes to see what they were like. (On top of music). 7th grade could choose a foreign language, 8th grade we chose our own electives.. .every school/district/state can be drastically different.
My daughter is in Pre-K, and I sighed and bought a copy of the yearbook. The cheapest option, with zero personalization, because... it's pre-K? I haven't opened it yet, but I doubt she or her class actually appear in it in any real way. The school goes through 8th grade, so it's not *just* another PTA blatant cash grab. (Just mostly.)
I thought the point of electives were they were the only thing that YOU, as a young student, could choose for yourself. A taste of independence or whateva. Hell, you’re the one who’s gotta take the class and they’re usually fun or at interesting classes available. I know it’s been almost 20yrs since I was in high school, (don’t even wanna count how many since 6th grade) but damn, let the kid live. He’s picking a class, not living arrangements…yet..
Is this the snippy Dad troll? Because his answers read like snippy Dad.
In my POV as a fellow adopted kid this feels bigger than just her opinion on an elective. It’s that OOP views Ethan as HIS kid so she who gave him up has absolutely no business being in his life at all. Any kind of advice at all would be met with this level of venom due to his own insecurities and fears of his kid seeing someone else as his parent. My mom did that to me as a kid when my birth mom tried to reach out and she shut it down and 15 years later I still remember it and judge her for it. I get where she was coming from, that fear of me potentially calling someone else ‘mom’, but that also didn’t give her the right to interfere with my relationship with my bio mom like that.
>The truth is that Ethan grew up with two dads and three older brothers A subtle one, but yet another Pride Month troll.
Is this a "gay people bad" troll post?
Can bad gay people not exist?
They can, but this post is definitely suspicious. Like why isn't the other dad's opinion ever mentioned?
They can and they do.
No one is saying that you know. But it feels like a troll post especially with the random "sassy" response to her when he hadn't written that way at all previously
Sure, but somehow all of them on AITA and similar subs seem to only exist in June, and randomly add in stereotypically “gay” phrases into their writing in the most unnatural way. Uncritically accepting that as “Well some gay people are bad” is exactly what the writers of these posts intend. See also: trans people bad posts, fat people bad posts, polyamorous people bad posts, autistic people bad posts… bad people with these characteristics exist in the world, but AITA isn’t a random sample of the world, it’s a place where trolling and creative writing gets engagement and attention. Between the original sub, meta subs like this one, TikToks of text-to-speech voices over soap cutting videos, and YouTubers/podcasters discussing these posts in earnest - eventually a ton of people are having a ton of in depth discussions about how awful ____ people are. That’s not an accident.
They tend to not be comically over the top evil gay people that post on a sub where almost all the posts are fake
I've met parents just like OOP so I wouldn't consider it over the top
OOP comes across as a control freak
Ok I am going with gay bad dad troll. After weighing everything. Can a gay man adopt? Sure. Rare. Three older brothers, two dads. Can happen. But kind of uncommon for gay men to adopt babies. 1 percent of adopted kids with gay or lesbian couples, 3 percent with single gay or lesbian individuals, with lesbian couples more common then gay couples. So uncommon maybe more than rare? I am not even going to bother to look up the odds of a teen mom giving up her kid and then getting into Ivy League and marrying a hedge fund guy. And doing yoga! So hard to get the yoga right. Anyway, not a lot of pregnant teens grow up to be Chelsea Clinton. In 9 years of having a baby! It could happen, but very uncommon. Then, he talks to his child's bio mom like someone on Drag Race Untucked. He uses girl as an insult and says to keep to her place. I am certain grown ass gay men with four children can speak this inappropriately to an adult woman that literally bore his child (I don't mean his biokid) but I would say very uncommon. Three very uncommon things feels really troll like and it is June, my friends. . But I have a sneaking fear this is true, Oop is white, and bio mom is a person of color. The disrespect oozes more than just misogyny.
I do feel like it’s playing on the stereotype of “gay men are catty, mean, and don’t like to straight women.” *Don’t if it’s an actual thing but I could’ve sworn I heard that in passing.*
It's a definite thing. Yes, gay men are sometimes "catty" and can be misogynistic, but homophobes like to stereotype all gay men as being like that. And it's Pride month, so the lgbt bad trolls are all over.
All I can do is shake my damn head. I’m so, so tired of it…but I’m being honest, I keep coming back to these pages so it’s on me, lol. It’s like a car crash I can’t look away from.
It is like a car crash sometimes, yeah.
I don't understand why is oop mad
He has big time control issues. Let the kid pick his electives. I don't remember having them in middle school. During HS my parents let me choose whatever I wanted. Spanish was the main one I remember.
Troll, unconvincing troll.
I think I read that OP wanted his kid to do leadership? That crap doesn’t matter in the 6th grade 😂
As mother who has two children out and open adoptions, I’m very grateful that they are not like this.
"Anyways,he told Beth about it and she fucked up by getting involved with the matter. She said what's the big deal about his doing yearbook. He should do what he wants to do. It's his class." Sounds like Ethan invited an interested but potentially neutral party into the conversation and OOP didn't like it.
OOPs sounds like an insufferable nasty person. There was no reason to jump down Beth’s throat.
This has been posted before, OOP isn't the original author. Even the names didn't change.
Yoga?
As someone who had meddling parents with what I took in school.... Kid's gonna hate you, OOP, and hell, it probably will bite not just you but him in the butt... Ex. 1: I switched schools in 7th grade. I was in Algebra in my old school scoring an 86% average. When I switched, my mom made me take this math called IM7 which was something like an advanced pre-algebra I guess? Her hope was that I would get better grades in Algebra the second time around. Guess what my score was second time around? 86%! SO it bit me in the ass in 9th grade. How? Well my middle school had a great geometry teacher who also was the advisor of the math team. Had I not retaken the Algebra class, I would have had that geometry teacher. Instead, I got a pretty good teacher my first semester but second semester I got a teacher who HATED my first semester teacher and took it out on the students. I got C's as my quarter grades simply because she graded us down if we had my first semester teacher. I even took one of my flunked tests to my first sem teacher because I had no understanding of what I did wrong and he told me I should have gotten 100%. (In the end I still scored well because in my county they had a semester exam that counted for more than your quarter grades in your semester grades.) Ex. 2: My parents were firm believers in me being in honors classes where possible. This included English. By the time I switched schools, this of course meant less of an emphasis on grammar and more writing and analyzation. (Remember, switched in 7th grade) Now, I am GREAT when it comes to grammar. But when it comes to writing, I am TERRIBLE at it, at least in a structured sense. I tend to write how I think, and as a person who thinks on high speed and in completely unrelated thoughts one after another, you can imagine this does not bode well. ESPECIALLY in timed situations. Trying to slow down what I am thinking, organize it, transfer it to paper, AND in a specific format, all in x amount of time? Are you kidding me? That was my hell until the second half of 10th grade when I moved to a different state that did not emphasize timed writing. For the second half of 7th and all of 8th grade, I took honors English. My 8th grade teacher was a COMPLETE bitch. First of all, she HATED the band kids and thought we were trouble makers due to the fact we were always late. (This was not our fault. Our band teacher was often absent due to having some kind of cancer, I want to say leukemia, but can't remember. But the trumpet section in my band class was a NIGHTMARE to the subs. So we'd always have the entire band serving Interact [what most commonly is known as recess or break, sorry] detention when my band director was there. And my band classroom was by the gym on one side of the building while my English class was on the complete opposite side of the building. And we only had 5 mins to trudge through the entire building to get to class. And if memory serves, no. I did not have any of the troublemaker trumpets in my class.) So that always went against us. She docked points if we were late. But add to it my nightmare that is writing and that made her hate ME! My dad was a lawyer and thus VERY good at writing, and when he was home (only about 50% of the time) he'd correct my papers for me. And he'd make me do them over and over again until he was satisfied. (I still have nightmares of him saying 'This is a D paper!') My teacher had become familiar with my writing very quickly I guess, and she always accused me of plagiarism. So the papers my dad had helped me on were always my worst papers. To this day, I maintain if I hadn't been in honors English 8th grade, I might have actually survived a bit better. This did mean I dropped to regular English for ninth grade. And my ninth grade teacher is and was my hero because she was willing to work with me and understood what I needed to succeed. But since I had an undiagnosed learning disability, she couldn't do much for my semester exams. So how did I do? Well, thanks to the fact my county did grades by semester, and like I mentioned before, final exams were worth more than quarter grades, my 9th and 10th English grades completely dropped my GPA. (Thanks to my English teacher in 9th grade, I got straight A's for my quarter grades. Despite bombing exams completely, this meant I still managed C semester grades. 10th grade, I didn't have quite as amazing of a teacher. But I think it was more my 9th grade teacher understood better how to help someone with a learning disability. My 10th grade teacher was not bad by any means, and in fact I had fun in his class. He did give credit where credit was due. Like we had to do presentations on the Odyssey. I was the blind prophet Tyresias. And because it didn't make sense for a blind prophet to read off a paper, I memorized my presentation. Got extra credit for that. 🤣😂) However, being in regular English in Utah thanks to low grades in Maryland was a godsend. At the end of 11th grade I was told I qualified for even AP English in 12th. I was tempted, but I was too scared since I only had been in regular English in high school. My parents wanted me to have a specific teacher (she was my Academic Decathlon coach) and the coach insisted that her regular English classes were full of dumb kids (not her exact words but essentially what she meant) so I needed to be in honors English. My parents were more than happy to listen to her over me. Guess who lost their straight A English average and maintained a C average in English senior year? Yup. Me. My first B on a formal writing assignment actually happened in college. We were allowed free reign on the subject matter. I chose to write a paper on why we as Americans need to pay attention to China from a business perspective. Because it was a topic I chose and was highly interested in (Chinese history and culture, as well as Korean and Japanese, are extremely fascinating to me) I actually did well on it. (And not being timed helped too. 🤣😂) Moral of the story: YOUR KIDS SURPRISINGLY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE CAPABLE OF! AND THEY KNOW WHAT THEY LIKE. THEY WILL DO BETTER WHEN IN SITUATIONS WHERE THEY LIKE THE SUBJECT MATTER AND ITS AT THEIR LEVEL! Also what the hell is wrong with yearbook? leadership is useless since its all a popularity contest anyway!
I’m getting gay hating women vibes
This individual is really threatened.
I SWEAR I've seen this post before. Asshole gay dad. Underprivileged mom gives the kid up for adoption. I think in that post the adopted dad ghosted the mom and moved across the country despite one of the reasons for letting him adopt was that he'd live close by and was basically like "Well if she wanted to see her kid she shouldn't have given him up"
What a pleasant person.
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This woman didn't adopt a child, she took on a project. She's manipulative and controlling, and she acts like her son is a piece of territory she has rights over. This is why "open adoptions" are such bullshit. It's a carrot dangled over birth parents' heads to sweeten the deal and make adoption more palatable--when in reality, there is nothing legally binding the adoptive parent to the agreement and they can rescind it at any time. And frequently they opt to do so as soon as they leave the hospital with the baby. Also, while I 100% know adoptive parents like this, I'm doubting the veracity of any of it. OOP writes like a middle-schooler at best. They come across as very uneducated, and there's a whole "Now, look here" quality to it that's amusing. I hear a feminine version of Foghorn Leghorn when I read it.
OOP is a guy. He mentions the kid had 2 dads, and 3 older brothers.
I hate this person.
This post is beyond stupid, but I appreciate it this line lol: “You’re a seat filler in the life of Ethan”
Wow, your contempt for Beth is written all over this post.
If the son never asked for her opinion, if he never told her about it, and she shoved her opinion down his throat then I'd get it. She'd be way overstepping. But HE brought it up with HER. Not the other way around. It's not like she said "you have to do this because I'm your mum and I say so". No need to be all aggressive with her and telling her to mind her place.
I feel like most of these "unpopular opinions" are just ragebait
Yes because Gay men are all extremely controlling and instantly bring out the sassy voice in any conflict. Get out of here with this shit during pride. I am sick of it.
I went to 5 different middle schools... i think only 2 of them offered electives, the rest just handed me a schedule each semester.
