NTJ, you were sharing an inside joke with your friend and he decided to butt in with a deeply offensive comment. Yours wasn't even based on your white friend's race, he took it to a racist place for no good reason.
Making constant comments about someone's appearance and passing it off as a joke isn't ok either is it? At least the friend here has understood what he did, accepted his punishment and learned a lesson. OP seems oblivious to his own behaviour though. I'm sure they can both work it out, they sound like bright kids.
That's what I'm wondering about though. Did Mark say something to Bill? I'm talll and I don't need a daily reminder of it expecially when i was a school kid. While innocence and comradship is meant, Mark may not have spoken up and Bill did it horribly. Forgive op, don't forget, but holding on to a grudge is letting him live rent free in your mind. Show who you are!
It is, but sometimes people don't like it but they feel they would be overreacting if they said anything. Or they think they should just put up with it for some reason.
It's like people making remarks about underweight people when they would NEVER make the corresponding remark to an overweight person. If you call them out on it, you get the same, "It's a cOmpLimEnt!" excuse that cat callers give.
If Mark had an issue with the talk jokes, especially if he said something to Bill, that would have been brought to OP’s attention by now. Surely one of Bills defenses when he was being chastised by the school would have been along the lines of him defending Mark, and if this was the case Mark would have defended Billy and OP would have been chastised as well. Since absolutely none of that happened, I think it’s safe to say OP wasn’t offending Mark with his tall jokes.
Depends on the friendship. My husband has a trio of work buddies; the four of them are collectively known as the tall one, the short one, the fat one, and the blind one. They make jokes about it all the time, including mocking themselves.
And before anyone goes off on the "fat one" bit, the guy has a thyroid condition, and he loves that while they might tease him about it, they clearly aren't *judging* him for his weight. It's treated exactly the same as my husband's height or the other friend's hereditary blindness: a physical trait they have no control over, but which uniquely identifies them within the group. I made sure to ask him privately after I first heard the nicknames, and he thanked me for my sincere but unnecessary concern.
This is something they do to each other. Because they are both the same height. If roommate is tall, OP is as well.
Unless I read it wrong, they both joke about each other's height.
He said the inside joke was due to the fact that they were both tall and therefore coming from a place of common understanding. It was developed over time with trust and friendship. So no, that is different than some kid he barely knew interjecting an insulting stereotype out of nowhere.
dude OP has a private joke with a friend
My friend calls me fat, i call him bald. Neither one of us are offended. Why? because we know eachother and respect eachother and are able to say such things. Its how you know youre close with someone.
OP's behaviour is not wrong in this situation
Why do think it was a running joke and not bullying? Teenage boys can be very sensitive to things that make them stand out, like being taller than others.
OPs friend absolutely shouldn't have gone to the race joke, but OP shouldn't be teasing his friend either.
OP's friend isn't the one who made the racist joke. OP made a tall joke to his friend "Mark," and Mark's friend "Bill," who was with Mark, then made the racist joke to OP.
While it is possible that Mark takes offense to OP's jokes and his friend picked up on that, it's just as likely that it was a normal, good-natured joke between friends, like OP said. That is also very common between friends. Since we only have OP's account of the situation, we can only go by what he tells us, and assume that his friend is not offended by the joke. And if that's the case, the other guy had no business injecting himself to begin with. Either way, what he said was offensive and uncalled for.
OP and Mark are the same height. They tease each other about their height. That doesn’t seem like bullying to me. Bill, who isn’t being teased comes up with a racist insult to “tease” back.
Assuming that a 13 year old boy is tuned in to his friends feelings is not a great assumption. At that age kids absolutely hate to be singled out for being different. Having been through stuff with my kids I’m pretty sure this inside joke was not appreciated by the friend. It doesn’t mean that the racist comment is ok but OP should think about his own behavior as well.
I have kids around this age, as well. OP should definitely pay attention to how his friend responds to his joke, but to say you are pretty sure it is not appreciated is a pretty big assumption. There's a lot we don't know. How did the joke start? Is it a one-way thing, or does the friend make a short joke (or something similar) back? It could very easily be a good natured inside joke, just as easily as it could be unappreciated, like you said.
NTJ and you don't have to justify an inside joke between friends. Its not out of line as long as your friend is cool with it.
If you feel comfortable with letting it go later in the year or in life I would advise to do so. 13 is an age where lots of people do REALLY dumb stuff, and they will change so much from year to year. If you give your friend's friend a chance to change for the better it will help you both grow as people.
They made the mistake and your feelings are 100% valid. Holding on to hurt and pain wont help you heal or grow, but its up to you when you let that go.
Bill was the one who was racist, Mark was the tall one. Jim was the one who went wide eyed at the comment and said WTF. Eddy was the one who filmed it and posted it on Snapchat. Joe was the President at the time. Hope that clears everything up.
NTJ and why are yall more concerned with the tall white boy’s “feelings” (which he gave no hint to, yall just made the assumption) than the boy who was called a RACIAL SLUR. Not to mention trying to make the. False equivalency that they’re anywhere close to the same thing? And lowkey invalidating his very real and valid feelings of being upset about experiencing racism from his peers, which can easily have a last effect on him.
You’re not wrong at all, I’m sorry you’re having to deal with that. Things will get better and you did great by reposting him and standing up for yourself :)
No, you’re not a jerk, but you’re hurting yourself. I cringe every time I read “[forgive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgiveness)” on Reddit, as most don’t understand what it means. Forgiving Bill has nothing to do with Bill, it's about restoring your peace. Forgiveness doesn’t mean that you condone, excuse, pardon, or forget what Bill did.
Think of it as having been poisoned and working to flush the poison from your system so it can no longer hurt you. Another way to think is as evicting Bill from your head and no longer allowing him to live there rent free.
My mom did a lot of shitty things to me and put me in a lot of shitty situations when I was a kid, she’s never apologized or even admitted that she made any mistakes. Hating her was only hurting me, so after too many years, I finally able to forgive and let go. Well, mostly, there are times it still gets to me. We’ve been NC for a very long time, so she has no idea I forgave her. I have no plans to let her back into my life, reach out to her, or anything else and that’s entirely separate from forgiveness.
Foregiveness takes time and work, in the end you'll be better off for it.
NTJ
You don't necessarily have to forgive someone to find peace and happiness. I've had many people hurt me and I've forgiven none of them, but I'm fine. The important thing is not having these people in your life and acknowledging they can't affect you if they aren't. Plus dont dwell on it. Process your feelings, acknowledge them, and move along in time. Did these people hurt me? Yes. Did I forgive them? No. But can they hurt me again? Also no. I am safe and well, and that is enough. Forgiveness works for some, but not for others and that's ok. It's everyone's individual journey to make.
There is a difference between forgiveness and acceptance. You can accept a situation and acknowledge the effect it's had on you, and move forward, deal with your emotions. You don't need to forgive to do those things. Some people don't deserve your forgiveness nor would they want it. You don't have to forgive the behavior or the person, you can heal yourself without it.
Correct, for years I felt like there was something wrong or bad about me that I couldn’t forgive, didn’t want to forgive. I came to realize that the idea that you HAVE to forgive to let go can be toxic. Forgiving the monsters feels like a betrayal to my child self, no thank you. I’m living a decent life without constant hate or anything, I would say yes, acceptance.
My problem was I forgave and the person would repeat the behavior and not change. They knew they hurt me and I thought they learned from what happened but they didn't. Forgiveness is the wiping the slate clean, beginning again wiser than before. Except when that person never had any intention of changing. They did not deserve my forgiveness. I was a child and I was hurt repeatedly because Jesus says you need to forgive. Well sorry if this offends some people, but Fuck Jesus! Jesus can forgive, I need to learn how to deal with this situation. I accepted the person hurting me was a cruel narcissist and did what I could to navigate my life with this person in my life.
NTJ. And you don’t HAVE TO FORGIVE HIM. What he said was ugly, racist, insulting and out of line. Make sure he stays away from you. There’s no law that says you have to forgive an asshole.
ESH. Are you sure your friend enjoys the tall comments, I have tall sons and even taller friends who really hate it that that’s all people think of when they see them. You’re young. People do and say the wrong thing sometimes. Start fresh with forgiveness
That doesn’t mean that Mark is actually okay with the constant comments about his height. Perhaps he has just been too nice to say anything to OP. Perhaps he even said something to Bill about the constant comments bothering him so Bill made comment back that he made. I am not saying Bill was not in the wrong here. He totally is and definitely should not have made a racial comment, but perhaps he was offended on Mark’s behalf (especially if Mark has previously told Bill the comments bothered him) and then handled the situation poorly. Yes, Bill is in the wrong but OP could very well be in the wrong too. Perhaps Mark is actually NOT okay with his physical appearance being the butt of a joke with OP and just puts up with it in order to keep the peace. Kids that age tend to be very self-conscious about differences in their appearance that makes them stand out. OP needs to verify that Mark is actually okay with the ‘inside joke’ because he may very well NOT be okay with it.
THATS NOT THE TOPIC. I’m a tall woman and my short best friend and I have jokes about the height disparity. It’s not for ANYONE ELSE to have an opinion about OUR JOKES.
y’all really need to read better. for those that didn’t understand how the convo went, i’ll break it down for you.
OP (to mark, who is in on the tall jokes): look, it’s the eiffel tower
bill (who is not in on the joke, to OP): look, it’s a dog eater
as for my two cents on this, as an asian american who has went to predominantly white schools (and someone who has witnessed these racial jokes firsthand), i think you blew it up way more than you needed to. NTJ, and i know this seems very upsetting now, but i guarantee when you graduate (i’m assuming you’re in 8th/9th grade) it will be a very distant, very unimportant memory. i’m not saying “it’s not a big deal”, but i think you blew it out of proportion a tiny bit.
my grandparents narrowly escaped communism in china to come to america (a lot of my family members on my dad’s side were killed as a result), so seeing people around my university who openly support communism makes my blood boil. it really does seem that they’re undermining everything my family has been through to give themselves better opportunities… like the right to live. but when i really think about it, giving the idiots more attention makes it bigger than it actually is. i know it’s hard, but more often than not, people will respond better to a sit-down than to a big punishment.
unfortunately, life is tough. coming from personal experience, there are a lot of people out there who will make those jokes at you, and a lot of people who will say things with malicious intent. and unfortunately, a part of being a minority in this world is that you have to pick and choose which battles to fight. it gets really exhausting fighting all of them.
on top of that, think about it. bill is literally a child. you all are children, and no one your age has the mental capacity to think like a fully developed adult. you’re gonna say things you regret, but the important thing is that you learn from them. while bill being a kid doesn’t excuse him saying that to someone, he’s a little shit 13 year old. sorry to say it, but 13 year olds aren’t exactly the smartest beings on earth. far from it. hell, i remember saying some god-awful shit when i was 13 in some cod lobbies.
maybe bill grew up around those jokes in his home environment. maybe all he needed was for you to kindly pull him aside and tell him “that’s not okay”. most likely, he’s not even racist, he just made a racial joke because he thought it was okay. if he was doing this multiple times despite you asking him to stop, i would understand the reaction, because him doing it repeatedly is just bullying. i’m willing to bet you that he did not make that joke with the intent to be racist towards you.
you have a right to react however you feel is right in these situations, but trust me, in a world where a lot of people will tell you you’re not shit with the intention of being racist, one joke isn’t that bad. put it into perspective. there will never be a perfect, racism-free world. never. but that doesn’t mean you can’t show compassion and correct people who do it unintentionally. tbh i think that helping people become less ignorant is what has the most potential to make this world a better place, don’t you?
Just because someone learns to do better and apologizes doesn't mean you have to forgive them. And apology is not a requirement of another's forgiveness it is a sign of one's growth (if they're not being forced to apologize of course).
Not the jerk just aware of your own feelings.
Why would you forgive him? Does he appear repentant? Is he going to change his evil ways? Is he going to change his thought patterns? He's experiencing the consequences of his actions...not yours. You owe him nothing. And that's the problem in America, we coddle racists. People refer to it as free speech. Free speech doesn't require police protection. "In a racist society it's not enough just not to be racist. We all must be anti-racist" ~Angela Davis
What he said was wrong*.* *~~However, you're the jerk for regularly bullying him about his height. If you can't take it, don't dish it out, he had probably just had enough of your pathetic abuse.~~*
Edit: I'm wrong, I missed that there was a third boy.
**Edit: Fuck! I read it wrong, you're right lol. I missed the fact that there were 2 other boys, and it wasn't the tall one who made the racist joke. It seems that my comprehension skills totally suck.**
**Sorry about that.**
~~Bruh. It's your reading comprehension skills that are lacking here.~~
~~OP doesn't say it was an inside joke, he said:~~
*~~I have a~~* ***~~running~~*** *~~joke with my tall friend who we'll call Mark 13m.~~*
~~MARK - The kid bullying his friend because he's tall.~~
~~BILL - The kid being bullied for being tall, who makes the mistake of making a racist joke in retaliation.~~
~~Both boys are in the wrong here.~~
You are fine!
What a mature way to self correct, if I may say so. Well done sweetheart.
I too have missed a point in a post and then with confidence commented on what I *thought* I had read.
It happens. 💕🙏🏾💕
It's an inside joke between you and your friend. He needs to write a well researched essay on interpersonal dynamics within friend groups and families and why it's not appropriate to think you're on the same level as them when you aren't in that kind of relationship with them.
NTJ.
And oh my gosh, people, for the love... reread the post before commenting.
Mark is the friend with whom OP has the ongoing joke.
Bill is the acquaintance that was walking with Mark, which made the racist comment.
Stop commenting that "maybe your friend said that because he actually doesn't like the joke."
His friend didn't say anything.
NTJ but try not to harbor the disappointment in your heart because it will only hurt you while he goes on living his entitled life. Try to find friends that are nit prone to discrimination and you’ll be happier.
NTJ, I work in the trades and yes we say some colorful things which can get out of hand but when someone says something that is extremely racist we tend to not talk to them for the rest of the day.
I don’t think the entitled and often privileged majority actually understand the impact of racist stereotypes. If your trading barbs like you are then was it just him trying to give you one.
You’re all so young. Often times when we’re young we parrot what our peers, parents and the information we consume. It’s not until you start examining a subject or interact with people who are not like you do you understand what discrimination they might face. We are all on a lifelong learning joinery and racism is very subject - what I find racism someone from my race might not.
Maybe use this moment (or the teachers should) as a teaching moment ?
You don't need to forgive him but having hate or malice in your for another person does do damage over time. If you can find forgiveness you should try. Forgiving doesn't mean you need to become friends or even tell him that you forgive him. You already know he will never understand since he will never share your life experiences. Hopefully he truly did learn and is going to be a better person moving forward. That's really the best outcome is him growing as a person and you not holding onto any hate or malice. NTJ
NTJ, I'm not okaying what happened because it's never ok to be racist. I just wanted to give my input on someone who has encountered racism my whole life. It's going to happen. Don't take it personally. They're ugly people who deserve to be pitied more than anything else.
NTJ
I don't think it's that you don't want to, it's that you can't. What he said was hurtful and harmful, even more so when it's unexpected like this was, and you need time to heal the damage done before you can reach the point of being able to choose to forgive. And while you might face a lot of pressure to forgive and let go of it, you have every right to take your time to heal and decide. Forgiveness is your choice on your schedule, no one else's.
Edit: typo
NTJ forgiveness isn't a requirement. You can move on and just pretend he doesn't exist. Even if he's learned his lesson this time, he was already the type of person who would find that funny, and no one needs that kind of guy in their life.
Hi, so I’m also Asian mixed. I tend to read these posts and I always have a middle ground opinion, here is mine.
Firstly, a racist comment does not make someone racist. Did he mean for it to be racist? Probably not, he just said something gross that came to mind in the same sense you did.
Does he like being called tall things? Who knows. Maybe it was funny at first, and just got old. Maybe hearing it so much has gotten more hurtful than you intend. I’m not in his head and there is no context to that.
I won’t say you’re a jerk but I won’t say you’re not. Again, more context on how he at least told you he feels about being called those things. Maybe he thought, “okay. We have that friendship I can call him something gross and not mean it.” How many people have that relationship? Girls calling each other slut, hoe, etc. Guys call each other asshole, bitch, and so on.
Maybe he thought you guys had that relationship. Was he supposed to know how you’d react? No. However, you can’t cultivate an environment of verbal slapstick and get mad because something to you went to far.
He didn’t call you the G slur did he? Honestly most kids of this generation have no idea what that is. If he was really a racist would you really be calling him a friend for however long up until this point?
You still call him your friend, despite this situation but apparently can’t forgive him for something stupid he said. Now as a 13 year old he has an entire school thinking he’s racist, when you both have been friends for however long. If he was so racist why would he tolerate going to a very Asian school? Why was this the one thing he broke down and reached into his inner racist?
You’re not a jerk, you just escalated something to someone that could possibly follow him for the rest of his life. He’s only 13 so he still has a lot of schooling to get through. You seem conflicted about this situation, and that’s fair. Personally what I have learned in being in America is Americans all ethnicities can be offensive without knowing or trying.
Americans don’t follow the Confucian law of being careful how they speak. It’s their most favored and most important right of free speech.
My advice to you, is to talk to your friend about this situation. More than likely he’ll ask you to stop calling him tall buildings, while he promises not to say anything insensitive.
For the record, in my home country we have eaten dog. There is a custom remembering the times when we had nothing to eat. How people starved to death. Stereotypes come from very real places, we can’t make fun of them on one day and laugh about it. Only to be offended the next day.
Again, look at it from his perspective. Did he ever tell you he was offended? Do you think you have the relationship where you guys can playfully insult each other? Do you really think anybody who says one racist thing that they are racist? If that’s the case, I’m a racist. So is my American family, my family back home, my bf. We can go on for a while.
This response ignores the fact that there are TWO SEPARATE BOYS.
MARK: Friend, tall, in on the joke
BILL: Acquaintance, not in on the joke but tried to be and showed his racism
Sometimes a joke, with zero malicious intent, can have a very different effect on the other person than you intended. I wonder if your jokes about your friend's appearance actually hurt him but he never let on. It can be very dispiriting to have someone constantly commenting on your appearance and excusing their behaviour as a joke.
Your friend stepped out of line, has accepted his sanction for that and, according to you, understands the ramifications of what he did. Perhaps you could give him the same grace. Bullying is not always about race.
And for all we know, Bill is a closer friend to Mark than OP, and Mark has told Bill how frustrated he is by OP’s constant “jokes.” Or maybe Bill is significantly shorter than average, so “jokes” about height are particularly hurtful to him. Either way, OP is a hypocrite, whining about racial comments when he admits to constantly making body-type comments.
You don't have to forgive if you're not feeling it. It was a pretty nasty thing to say - I wonder why he said it.
Does Mark really, really enjoy your tall 'joke'? Because it seems really tiresome to me. Do you think that you are the only person in his day to tell him he's tall eVeRy DaY?
Just because there's not an -ism about it, doesn't mean it's acceptable. Being tall or red haired or needing glasses is a source of bullying, but is rarely stamped on.
My guess is Bill snapped back on behalf of Mark because you constantly harp on it. It's not funny.
The thing about making jokes about people in public is that sometimes they make the people hearing the joke feel awkward or ashamed or hurt in some way. Though you are joking with Mark, it is still inappropriate for you to be commenting on his body type. Whether someone is tall or short or skinny or fat or dark or fair are physical traits that should not be open to joking about. And even if Mark says it is fine, if others can hear that makes it wrong.
By joking about Mark you opened to door for Bill to joke about you.
Both were inappropriate, and if you are mad at Bill you also have to be mad at yourself.
It may be better to consider this a learning experience and try to move past it.
SO TRUE! How are you supposed to grow up in a healthy way when assholes on Reddit (and in every aspect of your life) are out here telling you you're doing it wrong??
NTJ. There are some things that really change the way you see a person that can never be undone. It's like when a mirror is broken, your image of them is just shattered and can't be repaired.
Even if you did forgive him, you will never see him in the same light again. The friendship is over.
you are a jersey. to yourself. holding onto hate hurts you not them. forgive the kid, make ammends and for the love of all things holy don't take it as an affront to your whole family. that's exaggerating the issue far beyond what this boy intended. you are both at an age where you are learning about yourselves. what type of person are you? step down off the soapbox man and enjoy being a kid.
Sounds like he didn't like your joke and used a poor choice of insult to make you feel what he felt. Maybe ask him why he did that? Sounds like he lashed out because he felt he was getting teased for being tall.
I’m on my 5th comment here, and I just can’t *believe* the number of people who have the situation upside down and backwards ! Reading comprehension is your friend, people !
Also heading toward a rage stroke over how many don’t think inside jokes and mutually agreeable teasing have any place in a friendship !
They all sound like a barrel of laughs 🙄
NTJ. I applaud the school for responding to your complaint the way they have. That said you’re absolutely right that your friend is never gonna experience what you have or anyone else has for that matter who is different than him. It’s a very uncomfortable and harsh truth, that white folks have had all the privileges in the world by design, the sad part about it is they designed it that way through colonialism. Every history lesson that you’re going to have is gonna prove that statement. I’m hoping that your friend Bill truly, truly understands and learns from this moment on, his place in the world and the that only way that the world changes is if more people understand the control and the privilege that they have, and use it to make the world much more inclusive place. The simple fact is, if we all look the same, acted the same, thought the same, moved the same, or behaved the same the world will be a monumentally boring place.
>I understand that he now understands what he did wrong, but I feel that since he is white he will never have to face the same amount of racial prejudice.
You just outed yourself as a racist bigot. He probably gets picked on all the time for being White. White kids who go to a PoC majority school get picked on RELENTLESSLY and being called "dog eater" would be considered a good day for them since they aren't getting stomped to death by their classmates. If this was the other way around, the admin would tell him to shut up and go away and there would be no punishment.
You’re totally justified in your anger. Consider this, though: forgiveness can be more for you than for him.
Do you want to feel anger or hatred every time you see this guy? Do you want him living in your head? Or would you like to let it go and move on with your life with him being less than a consideration when you pass him by?
One way to go about it: pity him. He’ll never understand the struggles of you and your family, but he’ll never truly appreciate the beauty and bonds you share either. The joy, light and perspective that your cultures bring into your life. He’ll go on living his vanilla existence while you’ll be experiencing yours in full technichrome color.
Be well, my friend!
He was wrong and that was gross. But, you shouldn't be making jokes about your friend's height either. Just like your race, his height isn't something he can control, and you're pointing it out to him every time you see him. It's wrong to constantly point out to a person the thing that makes them different than others. It's bullying. I know you don't mean it that way, but that's what it is.
Stop the jokes about your tall friend's appearance. It WAS an inside joke. It was funny a couple of times.
Stop it TODAY.
NO ONE WANTS THEIR ENTIRE PERSONALITY TO BE ABOUT THEIR APPEARANCE.
NEXT TIME YOU SEE HIM TELL HIM SOMETHING YOU ADMIRE ABOUT HIS PERSONALITY.
Start being his friend. For all you know, he could have been muttering under his breath to the racist about how annoying your comments were becoming.
At some point your tall friend will become a tall acquaintance because you are behaving very shallow when greeting them. Especially when you do it in front of others.
TELLING INSIDE JOKES IN FRONT OF OTHER PEOPLE (ESPECIALLY WHERE YOU EXCLUDE ONE PERSON) IS VERY RUDE.
Telling inside jokes in front of other people (especially where you exclude ONE person) is very rude.
Your own behavior here was appalling.
No, you don't have to forgive the racist.
I also think people have added more to the meaning of forgiveness, loaded it with extra toppings. I think when people talk about forgiveness in this all encompassing manner, they really are talking about self forgiveness. When someone hurts you, regardless of who, you often put a lot of guilt on yourself. "If I only did this, why did I let my guard down?, I should have tried this, etc. etc." I think that's why people use that word even in situations where people do the unforgivable.
I was raped and I put myself in danger. That does not mean I deserved it, or asked for it, or anything like that. But victimology teaches that a person holds some culpability in the crime by fitting a criminal's victim profile. Like being a certain hair color, looking meek and weak, online dating, being alone at night in a deserted area, prostitution, those types of things. I won't forgive that monster, but it is much harder to forgive myself. Actually I feel I escaped a sociopath that night. Because I think he's a sociopath, it's likely he doesn't have the required empathy. He was likely in part born this way. That's easier to forgive than being stupid and knowing better. I know logically it's not my fault but there is that illogical part getting in the way.
To me in certain situations, words matter. And sometimes when dealing with big emotional issues, semantics does matter. So identifying forgiveness and acceptance might be very important for some. However, forgiveness has a more wide reaching meaning for others. I don't think anyone is technically wrong and there is no point down voting 😠 someone or getting upset.
The racist remark was definitely wrong but it makes me wonder if your friend, Mark is not as okay about your constant jokes about his height as you believe he is. Is it possible that Bill knew your comments made Mark uncomfortable and in an attempt to defend him took it too far?
It’s up to you to decide whether or not to forgive Bill, but a bit of advice, cut the height comments. It may have been funny the first or second time, but Mark may have gotten tired of it at this point and is just not the type to confront you and let you know. Running jokes tend to get old, especially if someone is the butt of those jokes.
OP consider forgiving but not forgetting, and be watchful to see if he ever makes another racist comment.
At 13 yr old I think there is a slight chance he may not have realized how racist that comment was, and this may have been a wake up for him to realize it. I totally realize that the comment may be an indicator of his real opinions, which is why I'm suggesting OP paying attention to any other comments he makes for evidence for or against him being racist.
I think he probably comes from a domestically abusive household that also may be racist and these behaviors were taught to him by people who: “love him.” You should forgive him because he probably has a really hard time at home and lashing out at people is actually a cry for attention. You should be his friend actually. He was probably jealous of you and the other kid’s close friendship. Basically what I’m saying is that he probably goes home to insults and varying degrees of humiliation everyday: he has already gotten his. He needs friends or he will just get worse with age.
Write another post when you’ve reached perfection! I’d be interested to know when you’ve reached it. Maybe, in the mean time (and on that journey) you can learn something about forgiveness!
I’m not Christian but I like their saying: “Hate the sin but love the sinner!”
If the sinner is showing awareness of the sin and how hurtful it may have been- as seems to be in your acquaintance’s case - then, yeah, you’re being a jerk!
This may not be a popular opinion, BUT, I’m guessing that Bill thought you were taking a dig at Mark, so in Mark’s defense, Bill took a dig at you. No doubt, his retort was quite stinging and inappropriate. I think the only innocent one here is Mark.
There’s a time and place to dog on someone (no pun intended) and I think you’re partly responsible for Bill retorting. Maybe Mark has discussed with Bill about how he hates being called different building names but has a non-confrontational personality. 🤷🏻♀️ If not for your inside joke comment, Bill wouldn’t have said anything.
Side note - five years ago I rescued two dogs from the Korean dog meat trade and when they misbehave, I remind them that they could have been shish kababs. Just an inside joke between me and my pups! 😜
You are certainly NTJ. I would encourage you to try to forgive. You and he are 13, and there are many life lessons to be learned. It sounds like this guy needed to learn that one, and hopefully he has. I'm not saying you're all young so he gets a pass. I am saying if you engage with him again and he absolutely makes no racial remarks you might consider this a victory - he now knows how hurtful words about race can be. It's a possibility.
This superbly demonstrates the difficulty in school/workplace relations. A third party present during an interaction either attempts to participate, or doesn't comprehend the relationship exchange. Someone becomes offended & makes a report. Feces to the oscillator.
OP shouldn't idly make references to friends with others present. Nor should OP be deeply offended by the third party's lame attempt to participate. The parties would have been better off to attempt to get their own resolution.
Complaints of any sort of Harassment often cause a panicked response on all sides. Admins feel they MUST take action, individuals either feel/believe they were under or over served, and often, those on the fringes feel a need to express some opinion without knowledge of the actual situation.
BTW, Eiffel Tower has been construed in some situations to be a sexual reference, therefore perhaps OP was considered to be harassing.
(I understand these are adolescents, and perceptions forming & evolving.)
NTJ
It's good that Bill seems to be making an effort to understand what he did wrong and apologize. But your feelings are valid, too. Forgiveness is a personal journey.
Forgiveness isn't owed. Forgiveness is acknowledging when your feelings toward the other person have been healed. You have to give yourself the time and space you need to work through your own feelings. You can only forgive the other person when **you** are emotionally ready to forgive them.
If you're not ready yet, then you are not ready. For your own sake, you may want to talk to someone who can help you work through your feelings about why you can't forgive him yet.
You're the jerk for tattling on your friend for making a culturally insensitive remark in response to you calling him a name first. People who do that type of stuff are called crybullies. Making a culturally insensitive joke is not the same as racism. If he was a racist, he wouldn't have been your friend in the first place. If it bothered you that much, why didn't you just tell your friend?
Reread, Mark was the tall friend he had a ongoing friendly joke about his HEIGHT. This is a common thing in relationships with people of different heights. Bill who was there replied with a RACIAL SLUR. The comment was not directed at Bill. Bill had no reason to say anything. Bills the jerk and you sound like one to cause you didn’t get what you read.
YTJ. Dude makes a mistake and you gonna hold it against him forever? And I wouldn’t have reported it but I’m from a different era when you could get into a fight at school and it wasn’t the end of the world. And you’ve fallen for the line about white people not experiencing the same amount of prejudice. All of us experience some type of prejudice in their lives but you’re gonna rate everyone’s on a scale? People experience prejudice over their age, weight, appearance, where they’re from, how much money their dad makes, etc.
Do you know this guy at all? If so, is he a jackass? nerd? Something else?
Not adding any judgement. Forgiveness is emotional and no one can make you do that before you're ready. His words only reflect on his ignorance, poor tact, and willingness to put other people down in an attempt to make people like him.
That said, you are both so young and will grow into much fuller and kinder versions of yourself as you age. With each passing year, you may feel embarrassed about acting in ways that were harmful or ignorant. He will experience the same. While you never have to forgive him, it is very likely that he will grown to be a better person than he is today.
Is anyone seriously pushing you to forgive him? As a teacher, I would make sure you two are no longer sitting near each other and giving him a serious stink eye whenever he so much as looks in your direction.
To be honest, I can't say whether you are or not as I don't even understand the racial slur he used. I don't get it. I understand the words but not the connotation. If he apologized, do you think he was sincere or did he apologize because he had to?
Dog eater is a common slur used to refer to south Asians. It's used because some south Asians were known to eat dogs for ceremonial or other reasons. Although dog eating isn't widely practiced anymore it's still used as a slur.
I understand, and youmay want tokeep your distance from him. But why do you think calling him the Eiffle Tower was ok? You did name calling. He did far worse.
I don't feel the "tall building" jabs are a single bit better. Don't want insulted? Don't insult. I know many people have trouble with this. It's not ok to use racial slurs. It's not.ok to use epithets either..and if it is, then racial slurs are also ok. Also no one is immune to this. Calling a white guy a "cracker" is exactly the same as the first slur you think of with a black person, Italian, Mexican, or Asian.
I will never understand who makes the rules for what’s acceptable ribbing and what crosses the line. Obviously, what “Bill” said is grossly inappropriate, but just because “Mark” doesn’t speak up about your jokes doesn’t mean you should say that either. I shave my head because of hair loss, so I figure rather than trying to hang on, I’ll just be proactive. It’s shocking how many people think it’s all in good fun to make jokes about my appearance. I often ask, if I were obese or had a missing limb or a different color of skin, would you make fun of that as well? So OP, while it was wrong of “Bill” To say what he did, just know that you probably have done or may still do things for which you will want mercy and forgiveness as well, so be gracious here. Besides, middle school brains aren’t even fully developed and capable of filtering their thoughts. But if he now knows how you feel and does it again, then that’ll be a completely different story.
What Bill did was wrong. However, as I read this, might I suggest not calling Mark by tall building names anymore. It's possible Mark has tired of it and mentioned it to Bill, who was a jerk about it.
Forgiveness isn't a right. You don't have to hand it out, desire society trying to tell you it's the right thing to do. It's only right if it feels comfortable and acceptable for you. One thing though; don't let hate twist you up on the inside.
I gotta say at 13yo we do and say a lot of dumb shit. it's part of growing up and maturing, I'd hate to be held accountable for all the stupidity of my youth, so I'd say if he really is sorry, make an effort with him.
btw, if dumb shit comes out of your mouth lol, recognise and apologise straight away... it's the best way. good luck buddy, hope it works out.
I doubt he really wants to apologize. If you were friends before you won’t be now. Instead of telling him to his face how you felt, you went to the school admin. He will never trust you again and will probably become more racist as a result of how this went down. Not to demean your feelings, but he will keep his feelings inside from now on. Later on in life he will strike back if he runs a business by not hiring people of color and will probably feel good about it. This is how racism is perpetuated.
You're not a jerk, but you're going to have an extremely difficult life unless you thicken your skin. This is NOTHING in the grand scheme of things, and has very obviously had a significant impact on you.
Lowkey, I don't know how old you are, but the fact that you're out here commenting "just calm down" on Reddit posts made by literal children that are experiencing BLATANT racism in the world around them shows me that maybe YOU'RE a little more sensitive than you give yourself credit for.
i am white, i grew up in a california town that was 80% latino/hispanic. the first time someone tried to cause me physical harm simply for being white i was 12 years old. i wouldnt be sure he isnt going to face anything worse than being called a dog eater in his lifetime.
Well many Asians do eat dogs. And they have festivals based around eating dog and other creatures. If you are hungry and there is an abundance then what's the harm.In America all the animal shelters are way over populated and animals are euthanized everyday. I feel like there are many starving people in the US and if they ate all the animals they euthanized it would feel a lot of people. So what's the big deal? It's not a crime to survive. It's a crime to kill animals because people are negligent and don't spay or neuter. Pigs, cows and chickens are just as smart as dogs so it's just a waste of meat.
I wouldn’t even say many Asians though, dog eating his been banned in many countries and is looked down upon in some Asian societies. The holiday you are referring to isn’t even widely celebrated anymore.
NTJ. The fact he went there, something he is very much aware is hurtful, as his first response isn't a great reflection on him. Maybe he truly deeply regrets it, maybe it is out of character for him, but of he said that to your fa e has he said it behind your back? Does he hear that from his family?
A lot of these are questions you won't know the answer to, and we cannot know the answer to, but think about what you know of him as a person. If you think he is genuinely remorseful and it was both a mistake and not who he normally is, maybe you can forgive (but not forget) and see if he learns from it. Or if you think you saw who he really is, then leave it as is.
Whatever you decide, I'm sorry you went through that, and good luck with whatever you decide.
It wasn't okay to say it, but why allow this person's racism control what type of person you are? Are you a person who forgives, or a person who allows things to fester until you damage yourself and perhaps those around you? Forgiveness will not affect them, but it will allow you to live your life without them living rent free in your head.
It was an innocent mistake. Either he thought you all were okay with insulting each other and he was joining in or he thought you were being mean and was trying to show you how horrible you were being. He’s been punished and apologized. You can be hurt. But you need to forgive. In fact forgiveness in general isn’t about the person being sorry. It’s about letting go of hate and resentment so you’re not carrying it with you.
You should be calling your friend respectfully by his name, not by any physical characteristic. In my opinion, the boy who made the comeback remark did so to show you how it felt to be addressed inappropriately.
Never make a spectacle out of others in that manner. Show respect, and there would be no problem.
Another way of putting it is, if you can't take it, don't dish it out.
Forgiveness is for you, not them. It allows you to let go and not let the resentment fester. You don’t even have to say it to him, just yourself. Deep breath, let it go.
NTJ buddy! “Bill” was way out of line, and you’re under absolutely no obligation to forgive him for what he’s done. If anyone has a problem with it just tell them “Forgiveness isn’t my job. It’s the job of (name your deity of choice) to forgive. That’s between Bill and (deity’s name), and no I won’t arrange the meeting.”
NTJ you dont HAVE to accept the apology you can say something to the effect of “Im glad you understand now the gravity of what you said but im not ready to forgive you.”
That way you acknowledged that he understands what he said was bad but your still hurt by it. Im not saying what he did was “unforgivable” but if your not ready to accept thats perfectly valid as well. Dont let the school “force” forgiveness from you. Show him he has to earn it.
It’s tough. I was literally the only Jewish kid in town growing up, if I didn’t forgive ignorant insults and bad racist jokes, I’d have had like zero friends lol. Don’t forget, but do forgive is my advice. Obviously if it’s something that’s repeated after you’ve made it clear you’re not having it, no need to worry any further, Bill’s just a jerk, but it doesn’t seem like that’s the case here. You’re not required to like anyone, but in life, you too will likely do stupid, ignorant things.
Thinking back on my worst experiences as a kid, almost none of the kids who said racist things even knew what they were talking about, and basically none are actual racists a-holes who would think of giving me a hard time now.
I think you should ease up, just my opinion. If he does re-offend, drop him, and perhaps having a few good white insults in the chamber would be a good idea too, here’s a few pages of ideas for you:
Just kidding, but you get the idea :) . It’s a trend nowadays to be permanently and irreparably offended, and those who live their lives that way tend to be the most unhappy people I know.
ESH. It's alright for you to make fun of your tall friend but when your acquaintance makes fun of you, you are all hurt. I understand teenage males say inappropriate things to each other. It is normal but to come on here an make yourself out to be the one really victimized is a bit much. Your acquaintance made a mistake saying that but he knew what you said to the other friend was not nice, either.
NTJ No one is owed forgiveness. Forgiving someone is something we can do IF WE WANT, to further detatch ourselves from negative people. By forgiving them, truly, they won't weigh on you. But at that same time, some things cut to deep to forgive. And there is nothing wrong with that. Emotional injuries are just as real as physical ones. Some things scar.
If an emotional injury is nothing you because you don't want it to keep weighing on you, then you can choose to try to use therapy or talk throughs through with someone trusted to see if you can resolve your feelings, but that is purely optional. Many times thinking about forgiving someone seems like if you forgive them you're denying the hurt they caused and are saying what they did wasn't so bad. While forgiving doesn't mean what they did wasn't so bad, you can't forgive someone if it hurts too much. If you have a huge open gash in your leg, pretending a bandaid will fix it is not only foolish, but improper treatment can make it worse. Give yourself permission to feel however feels right to you. Don't heap guilt onto yourself.
You have done, and are not doing anything wrong by being honest with your feelings. Rather, it's good that you're able to be honest with yourself. And don't worry about Bill's feelings. One of the consequences of being a bigot/bully/abuser/asshole is that some people will have bad feelings for you. He chose his action. You not forgiving him is a normal consequence of that. He is owed nothing at all, whatsoever. Take care of yourself. I'm sorry you're having to deal with all this shit. Sending you internet hugs if you like them.
It’s a joke. Make a better joke back to him. Laugh and move on. If I got a dollar everytime someone call me a dog eater, rice eater, other Asian slurs that don’t even apply to what kind of Asian I am, i wouldn’t need a job anymore.
Well.
Waaa--- F ing waaaaa
Names. WTH! ."I went to the office and reported racial " blah blahhh
Grow up because once your out of school. There isn't a office to whine to.
Spend more time worrying about a career in your future, paying bills,
But for now, be a kid not some stuffed shirt that believes causing a "word" to disrupt other students, the faulty is a good thing?.
And the bad thing about it?
Asian as well as others EAT DOGS!!
NTJ, you were sharing an inside joke with your friend and he decided to butt in with a deeply offensive comment. Yours wasn't even based on your white friend's race, he took it to a racist place for no good reason.
Making constant comments about someone's appearance and passing it off as a joke isn't ok either is it? At least the friend here has understood what he did, accepted his punishment and learned a lesson. OP seems oblivious to his own behaviour though. I'm sure they can both work it out, they sound like bright kids.
no it’s fine to have jokes with your friends that both of you are ok with even if it’s about appearance
That's what I'm wondering about though. Did Mark say something to Bill? I'm talll and I don't need a daily reminder of it expecially when i was a school kid. While innocence and comradship is meant, Mark may not have spoken up and Bill did it horribly. Forgive op, don't forget, but holding on to a grudge is letting him live rent free in your mind. Show who you are!
Thanks everyone for the incite, as a side note me and mark are the same height and both make similar comments to each other.
OP, please add to your post that you and Mark are the same height.
It is, but sometimes people don't like it but they feel they would be overreacting if they said anything. Or they think they should just put up with it for some reason. It's like people making remarks about underweight people when they would NEVER make the corresponding remark to an overweight person. If you call them out on it, you get the same, "It's a cOmpLimEnt!" excuse that cat callers give.
Making a joke about height =/= making a joke based on ignorant racial stereotypes
This, this, so much this. The false equivalence going on here is making me crazy.
Yea this is the most ignorant Reddit comment section I've seen in a while
“It’s okay to be racist if they aren’t being perfect saints.” - your avg redditor
If Mark had an issue with the talk jokes, especially if he said something to Bill, that would have been brought to OP’s attention by now. Surely one of Bills defenses when he was being chastised by the school would have been along the lines of him defending Mark, and if this was the case Mark would have defended Billy and OP would have been chastised as well. Since absolutely none of that happened, I think it’s safe to say OP wasn’t offending Mark with his tall jokes.
Depends on the friendship. My husband has a trio of work buddies; the four of them are collectively known as the tall one, the short one, the fat one, and the blind one. They make jokes about it all the time, including mocking themselves. And before anyone goes off on the "fat one" bit, the guy has a thyroid condition, and he loves that while they might tease him about it, they clearly aren't *judging* him for his weight. It's treated exactly the same as my husband's height or the other friend's hereditary blindness: a physical trait they have no control over, but which uniquely identifies them within the group. I made sure to ask him privately after I first heard the nicknames, and he thanked me for my sincere but unnecessary concern.
This is something they do to each other. Because they are both the same height. If roommate is tall, OP is as well. Unless I read it wrong, they both joke about each other's height.
who are you to judge this gentle flirting relationship, these boys were headed toward love and third wheel got jealous.
He said the inside joke was due to the fact that they were both tall and therefore coming from a place of common understanding. It was developed over time with trust and friendship. So no, that is different than some kid he barely knew interjecting an insulting stereotype out of nowhere.
dude OP has a private joke with a friend My friend calls me fat, i call him bald. Neither one of us are offended. Why? because we know eachother and respect eachother and are able to say such things. Its how you know youre close with someone. OP's behaviour is not wrong in this situation
Why do think it was a running joke and not bullying? Teenage boys can be very sensitive to things that make them stand out, like being taller than others. OPs friend absolutely shouldn't have gone to the race joke, but OP shouldn't be teasing his friend either.
OP's friend isn't the one who made the racist joke. OP made a tall joke to his friend "Mark," and Mark's friend "Bill," who was with Mark, then made the racist joke to OP. While it is possible that Mark takes offense to OP's jokes and his friend picked up on that, it's just as likely that it was a normal, good-natured joke between friends, like OP said. That is also very common between friends. Since we only have OP's account of the situation, we can only go by what he tells us, and assume that his friend is not offended by the joke. And if that's the case, the other guy had no business injecting himself to begin with. Either way, what he said was offensive and uncalled for.
OP and Mark are the same height. They tease each other about their height. That doesn’t seem like bullying to me. Bill, who isn’t being teased comes up with a racist insult to “tease” back.
Assuming that a 13 year old boy is tuned in to his friends feelings is not a great assumption. At that age kids absolutely hate to be singled out for being different. Having been through stuff with my kids I’m pretty sure this inside joke was not appreciated by the friend. It doesn’t mean that the racist comment is ok but OP should think about his own behavior as well.
I have kids around this age, as well. OP should definitely pay attention to how his friend responds to his joke, but to say you are pretty sure it is not appreciated is a pretty big assumption. There's a lot we don't know. How did the joke start? Is it a one-way thing, or does the friend make a short joke (or something similar) back? It could very easily be a good natured inside joke, just as easily as it could be unappreciated, like you said.
OP has mentioned in a comment it is a back an forth between him and mark; mark makes similar jokes back and they are of the same hight-ish
Yeah, so sounds like it's all in good fun.
OP states in other responses that OP and Mark are the same height.
Wow. Nearly all the comments here struggle with basic reading comprehension.
NTJ and you don't have to justify an inside joke between friends. Its not out of line as long as your friend is cool with it. If you feel comfortable with letting it go later in the year or in life I would advise to do so. 13 is an age where lots of people do REALLY dumb stuff, and they will change so much from year to year. If you give your friend's friend a chance to change for the better it will help you both grow as people. They made the mistake and your feelings are 100% valid. Holding on to hurt and pain wont help you heal or grow, but its up to you when you let that go.
Bill was the one who was racist, Mark was the tall one. Jim was the one who went wide eyed at the comment and said WTF. Eddy was the one who filmed it and posted it on Snapchat. Joe was the President at the time. Hope that clears everything up.
😂 Mei added a soundtrack and uploaded it to TikTok.
NTJ and why are yall more concerned with the tall white boy’s “feelings” (which he gave no hint to, yall just made the assumption) than the boy who was called a RACIAL SLUR. Not to mention trying to make the. False equivalency that they’re anywhere close to the same thing? And lowkey invalidating his very real and valid feelings of being upset about experiencing racism from his peers, which can easily have a last effect on him.
Thank you so much, some of these comments have stared to make me think that I'm overreacting.
You’re not wrong at all, I’m sorry you’re having to deal with that. Things will get better and you did great by reposting him and standing up for yourself :)
No, you’re not a jerk, but you’re hurting yourself. I cringe every time I read “[forgive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgiveness)” on Reddit, as most don’t understand what it means. Forgiving Bill has nothing to do with Bill, it's about restoring your peace. Forgiveness doesn’t mean that you condone, excuse, pardon, or forget what Bill did. Think of it as having been poisoned and working to flush the poison from your system so it can no longer hurt you. Another way to think is as evicting Bill from your head and no longer allowing him to live there rent free. My mom did a lot of shitty things to me and put me in a lot of shitty situations when I was a kid, she’s never apologized or even admitted that she made any mistakes. Hating her was only hurting me, so after too many years, I finally able to forgive and let go. Well, mostly, there are times it still gets to me. We’ve been NC for a very long time, so she has no idea I forgave her. I have no plans to let her back into my life, reach out to her, or anything else and that’s entirely separate from forgiveness. Foregiveness takes time and work, in the end you'll be better off for it. NTJ
You don't necessarily have to forgive someone to find peace and happiness. I've had many people hurt me and I've forgiven none of them, but I'm fine. The important thing is not having these people in your life and acknowledging they can't affect you if they aren't. Plus dont dwell on it. Process your feelings, acknowledge them, and move along in time. Did these people hurt me? Yes. Did I forgive them? No. But can they hurt me again? Also no. I am safe and well, and that is enough. Forgiveness works for some, but not for others and that's ok. It's everyone's individual journey to make.
I agree. One can let go while still acknowledging that what the other person did was wrong.
I have nothing to add to this comment but, Wow
I don’t forgive my parents and I’m happy with that.
There is a difference between forgiveness and acceptance. You can accept a situation and acknowledge the effect it's had on you, and move forward, deal with your emotions. You don't need to forgive to do those things. Some people don't deserve your forgiveness nor would they want it. You don't have to forgive the behavior or the person, you can heal yourself without it.
Correct, for years I felt like there was something wrong or bad about me that I couldn’t forgive, didn’t want to forgive. I came to realize that the idea that you HAVE to forgive to let go can be toxic. Forgiving the monsters feels like a betrayal to my child self, no thank you. I’m living a decent life without constant hate or anything, I would say yes, acceptance.
My problem was I forgave and the person would repeat the behavior and not change. They knew they hurt me and I thought they learned from what happened but they didn't. Forgiveness is the wiping the slate clean, beginning again wiser than before. Except when that person never had any intention of changing. They did not deserve my forgiveness. I was a child and I was hurt repeatedly because Jesus says you need to forgive. Well sorry if this offends some people, but Fuck Jesus! Jesus can forgive, I need to learn how to deal with this situation. I accepted the person hurting me was a cruel narcissist and did what I could to navigate my life with this person in my life.
I disagree with your choice, but it is your choice and your choice alone. It's up to the individual to do what they think is best for them.
sorry y'all I meant classmate not roommate autocorrect sucks
NTJ. And you don’t HAVE TO FORGIVE HIM. What he said was ugly, racist, insulting and out of line. Make sure he stays away from you. There’s no law that says you have to forgive an asshole.
Thank you for that
ESH. Are you sure your friend enjoys the tall comments, I have tall sons and even taller friends who really hate it that that’s all people think of when they see them. You’re young. People do and say the wrong thing sometimes. Start fresh with forgiveness
But Mark didn't make the joke. It seems a lot of people are missing that. Someone unrelated to their inside joke piped up with the racist comment.
That doesn’t mean that Mark is actually okay with the constant comments about his height. Perhaps he has just been too nice to say anything to OP. Perhaps he even said something to Bill about the constant comments bothering him so Bill made comment back that he made. I am not saying Bill was not in the wrong here. He totally is and definitely should not have made a racial comment, but perhaps he was offended on Mark’s behalf (especially if Mark has previously told Bill the comments bothered him) and then handled the situation poorly. Yes, Bill is in the wrong but OP could very well be in the wrong too. Perhaps Mark is actually NOT okay with his physical appearance being the butt of a joke with OP and just puts up with it in order to keep the peace. Kids that age tend to be very self-conscious about differences in their appearance that makes them stand out. OP needs to verify that Mark is actually okay with the ‘inside joke’ because he may very well NOT be okay with it.
THATS NOT THE TOPIC. I’m a tall woman and my short best friend and I have jokes about the height disparity. It’s not for ANYONE ELSE to have an opinion about OUR JOKES.
y’all really need to read better. for those that didn’t understand how the convo went, i’ll break it down for you. OP (to mark, who is in on the tall jokes): look, it’s the eiffel tower bill (who is not in on the joke, to OP): look, it’s a dog eater as for my two cents on this, as an asian american who has went to predominantly white schools (and someone who has witnessed these racial jokes firsthand), i think you blew it up way more than you needed to. NTJ, and i know this seems very upsetting now, but i guarantee when you graduate (i’m assuming you’re in 8th/9th grade) it will be a very distant, very unimportant memory. i’m not saying “it’s not a big deal”, but i think you blew it out of proportion a tiny bit. my grandparents narrowly escaped communism in china to come to america (a lot of my family members on my dad’s side were killed as a result), so seeing people around my university who openly support communism makes my blood boil. it really does seem that they’re undermining everything my family has been through to give themselves better opportunities… like the right to live. but when i really think about it, giving the idiots more attention makes it bigger than it actually is. i know it’s hard, but more often than not, people will respond better to a sit-down than to a big punishment. unfortunately, life is tough. coming from personal experience, there are a lot of people out there who will make those jokes at you, and a lot of people who will say things with malicious intent. and unfortunately, a part of being a minority in this world is that you have to pick and choose which battles to fight. it gets really exhausting fighting all of them. on top of that, think about it. bill is literally a child. you all are children, and no one your age has the mental capacity to think like a fully developed adult. you’re gonna say things you regret, but the important thing is that you learn from them. while bill being a kid doesn’t excuse him saying that to someone, he’s a little shit 13 year old. sorry to say it, but 13 year olds aren’t exactly the smartest beings on earth. far from it. hell, i remember saying some god-awful shit when i was 13 in some cod lobbies. maybe bill grew up around those jokes in his home environment. maybe all he needed was for you to kindly pull him aside and tell him “that’s not okay”. most likely, he’s not even racist, he just made a racial joke because he thought it was okay. if he was doing this multiple times despite you asking him to stop, i would understand the reaction, because him doing it repeatedly is just bullying. i’m willing to bet you that he did not make that joke with the intent to be racist towards you. you have a right to react however you feel is right in these situations, but trust me, in a world where a lot of people will tell you you’re not shit with the intention of being racist, one joke isn’t that bad. put it into perspective. there will never be a perfect, racism-free world. never. but that doesn’t mean you can’t show compassion and correct people who do it unintentionally. tbh i think that helping people become less ignorant is what has the most potential to make this world a better place, don’t you?
Fantastic response 👏👏 I hope OP reads this.
Incredibly wise response.
This was beautifully written! Hope OP sees this response and really appreciates this insight.
You said everything I wanted to say but so much better than I could’ve worded it. I hope OP sees it!
Just because someone learns to do better and apologizes doesn't mean you have to forgive them. And apology is not a requirement of another's forgiveness it is a sign of one's growth (if they're not being forced to apologize of course). Not the jerk just aware of your own feelings.
Also as a side not me and Mark are the same height, and we both make similar comments.
NTJ. If that’s his knee jerk reaction, it’s going to take more than a project to unlearn his racism.
Why would you forgive him? Does he appear repentant? Is he going to change his evil ways? Is he going to change his thought patterns? He's experiencing the consequences of his actions...not yours. You owe him nothing. And that's the problem in America, we coddle racists. People refer to it as free speech. Free speech doesn't require police protection. "In a racist society it's not enough just not to be racist. We all must be anti-racist" ~Angela Davis
That’s honestly really helpful, thanks
NTJ. He should be on your permanent shit list. It is not personal. He’s the enemy of everyone you love.
What he said was wrong*.* *~~However, you're the jerk for regularly bullying him about his height. If you can't take it, don't dish it out, he had probably just had enough of your pathetic abuse.~~* Edit: I'm wrong, I missed that there was a third boy.
Bruh. Next time take a second to double check the post... there were TWO boys there. MARK - the other side of the inside joke BILL - the racist kid
**Edit: Fuck! I read it wrong, you're right lol. I missed the fact that there were 2 other boys, and it wasn't the tall one who made the racist joke. It seems that my comprehension skills totally suck.** **Sorry about that.** ~~Bruh. It's your reading comprehension skills that are lacking here.~~ ~~OP doesn't say it was an inside joke, he said:~~ *~~I have a~~* ***~~running~~*** *~~joke with my tall friend who we'll call Mark 13m.~~* ~~MARK - The kid bullying his friend because he's tall.~~ ~~BILL - The kid being bullied for being tall, who makes the mistake of making a racist joke in retaliation.~~ ~~Both boys are in the wrong here.~~
You are fine! What a mature way to self correct, if I may say so. Well done sweetheart. I too have missed a point in a post and then with confidence commented on what I *thought* I had read. It happens. 💕🙏🏾💕
Thank you :-) I have many faults, but I always apologise when I'm wrong.
I hadn't commented... but I totally thought it was the tall kid who said it, too.
It's an inside joke between you and your friend. He needs to write a well researched essay on interpersonal dynamics within friend groups and families and why it's not appropriate to think you're on the same level as them when you aren't in that kind of relationship with them.
You are fine, OP. When people show you who they are, believe them. You don't owe that dude anything.
NTJ at all!!
NTJ. And oh my gosh, people, for the love... reread the post before commenting. Mark is the friend with whom OP has the ongoing joke. Bill is the acquaintance that was walking with Mark, which made the racist comment. Stop commenting that "maybe your friend said that because he actually doesn't like the joke." His friend didn't say anything.
🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆❤️
Nta.. fuck bigots
Ntj!! He was so rude to you
NTJ especially since his apology was forced. If he sounds sincere you might consider accepting otherwise neh.
NTJ but try not to harbor the disappointment in your heart because it will only hurt you while he goes on living his entitled life. Try to find friends that are nit prone to discrimination and you’ll be happier.
NTJ
NTJ, racists don't deserve forgiveness. Cut him out of your life and find better friends.
NTJ, I work in the trades and yes we say some colorful things which can get out of hand but when someone says something that is extremely racist we tend to not talk to them for the rest of the day.
NTJ - You don't have have to forgive him. You can cut ties with him.
no, you're not the jerk
You aren't the jerk this guy willingly called you a racist name
You do not owe anyone forgiveness. Even if they apologise. Even if they are truly remorseful. I hope he has learned to do better. NTA
I don’t think the entitled and often privileged majority actually understand the impact of racist stereotypes. If your trading barbs like you are then was it just him trying to give you one. You’re all so young. Often times when we’re young we parrot what our peers, parents and the information we consume. It’s not until you start examining a subject or interact with people who are not like you do you understand what discrimination they might face. We are all on a lifelong learning joinery and racism is very subject - what I find racism someone from my race might not. Maybe use this moment (or the teachers should) as a teaching moment ?
You're 13 years old in middle school and you're talking like a 27 year old, and you have a roommate?
I meant classmate not roommate, autocorrect sucks. And I assure you I’m 13 and not 27.
You don't need to forgive him but having hate or malice in your for another person does do damage over time. If you can find forgiveness you should try. Forgiving doesn't mean you need to become friends or even tell him that you forgive him. You already know he will never understand since he will never share your life experiences. Hopefully he truly did learn and is going to be a better person moving forward. That's really the best outcome is him growing as a person and you not holding onto any hate or malice. NTJ
NTJ, I'm not okaying what happened because it's never ok to be racist. I just wanted to give my input on someone who has encountered racism my whole life. It's going to happen. Don't take it personally. They're ugly people who deserve to be pitied more than anything else.
Height is one thing race is another entirely and total unacceptable
NTJ I don't think it's that you don't want to, it's that you can't. What he said was hurtful and harmful, even more so when it's unexpected like this was, and you need time to heal the damage done before you can reach the point of being able to choose to forgive. And while you might face a lot of pressure to forgive and let go of it, you have every right to take your time to heal and decide. Forgiveness is your choice on your schedule, no one else's. Edit: typo
NTJ forgiveness isn't a requirement. You can move on and just pretend he doesn't exist. Even if he's learned his lesson this time, he was already the type of person who would find that funny, and no one needs that kind of guy in their life.
Hi, so I’m also Asian mixed. I tend to read these posts and I always have a middle ground opinion, here is mine. Firstly, a racist comment does not make someone racist. Did he mean for it to be racist? Probably not, he just said something gross that came to mind in the same sense you did. Does he like being called tall things? Who knows. Maybe it was funny at first, and just got old. Maybe hearing it so much has gotten more hurtful than you intend. I’m not in his head and there is no context to that. I won’t say you’re a jerk but I won’t say you’re not. Again, more context on how he at least told you he feels about being called those things. Maybe he thought, “okay. We have that friendship I can call him something gross and not mean it.” How many people have that relationship? Girls calling each other slut, hoe, etc. Guys call each other asshole, bitch, and so on. Maybe he thought you guys had that relationship. Was he supposed to know how you’d react? No. However, you can’t cultivate an environment of verbal slapstick and get mad because something to you went to far. He didn’t call you the G slur did he? Honestly most kids of this generation have no idea what that is. If he was really a racist would you really be calling him a friend for however long up until this point? You still call him your friend, despite this situation but apparently can’t forgive him for something stupid he said. Now as a 13 year old he has an entire school thinking he’s racist, when you both have been friends for however long. If he was so racist why would he tolerate going to a very Asian school? Why was this the one thing he broke down and reached into his inner racist? You’re not a jerk, you just escalated something to someone that could possibly follow him for the rest of his life. He’s only 13 so he still has a lot of schooling to get through. You seem conflicted about this situation, and that’s fair. Personally what I have learned in being in America is Americans all ethnicities can be offensive without knowing or trying. Americans don’t follow the Confucian law of being careful how they speak. It’s their most favored and most important right of free speech. My advice to you, is to talk to your friend about this situation. More than likely he’ll ask you to stop calling him tall buildings, while he promises not to say anything insensitive. For the record, in my home country we have eaten dog. There is a custom remembering the times when we had nothing to eat. How people starved to death. Stereotypes come from very real places, we can’t make fun of them on one day and laugh about it. Only to be offended the next day. Again, look at it from his perspective. Did he ever tell you he was offended? Do you think you have the relationship where you guys can playfully insult each other? Do you really think anybody who says one racist thing that they are racist? If that’s the case, I’m a racist. So is my American family, my family back home, my bf. We can go on for a while.
This response ignores the fact that there are TWO SEPARATE BOYS. MARK: Friend, tall, in on the joke BILL: Acquaintance, not in on the joke but tried to be and showed his racism
Why are so many people missing this!!!!!! Wth??
But the response is perfectly reasonable without that aspect.
Sometimes a joke, with zero malicious intent, can have a very different effect on the other person than you intended. I wonder if your jokes about your friend's appearance actually hurt him but he never let on. It can be very dispiriting to have someone constantly commenting on your appearance and excusing their behaviour as a joke. Your friend stepped out of line, has accepted his sanction for that and, according to you, understands the ramifications of what he did. Perhaps you could give him the same grace. Bullying is not always about race.
Reread the post. The racist comment was not made by Mark, but by Bill.
And for all we know, Bill is a closer friend to Mark than OP, and Mark has told Bill how frustrated he is by OP’s constant “jokes.” Or maybe Bill is significantly shorter than average, so “jokes” about height are particularly hurtful to him. Either way, OP is a hypocrite, whining about racial comments when he admits to constantly making body-type comments.
Does Mark like you teasing him about his height?
Mark didn't make the comment
You don't have to forgive if you're not feeling it. It was a pretty nasty thing to say - I wonder why he said it. Does Mark really, really enjoy your tall 'joke'? Because it seems really tiresome to me. Do you think that you are the only person in his day to tell him he's tall eVeRy DaY? Just because there's not an -ism about it, doesn't mean it's acceptable. Being tall or red haired or needing glasses is a source of bullying, but is rarely stamped on. My guess is Bill snapped back on behalf of Mark because you constantly harp on it. It's not funny.
The thing about making jokes about people in public is that sometimes they make the people hearing the joke feel awkward or ashamed or hurt in some way. Though you are joking with Mark, it is still inappropriate for you to be commenting on his body type. Whether someone is tall or short or skinny or fat or dark or fair are physical traits that should not be open to joking about. And even if Mark says it is fine, if others can hear that makes it wrong. By joking about Mark you opened to door for Bill to joke about you. Both were inappropriate, and if you are mad at Bill you also have to be mad at yourself. It may be better to consider this a learning experience and try to move past it.
Grow up.
He’s trying. He’s 13 and asking the community for input. That’s better than I was doing at his age.
Thank you.
SO TRUE! How are you supposed to grow up in a healthy way when assholes on Reddit (and in every aspect of your life) are out here telling you you're doing it wrong??
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No. He made fun of Mark.
NTJ. There are some things that really change the way you see a person that can never be undone. It's like when a mirror is broken, your image of them is just shattered and can't be repaired. Even if you did forgive him, you will never see him in the same light again. The friendship is over.
you are a jersey. to yourself. holding onto hate hurts you not them. forgive the kid, make ammends and for the love of all things holy don't take it as an affront to your whole family. that's exaggerating the issue far beyond what this boy intended. you are both at an age where you are learning about yourselves. what type of person are you? step down off the soapbox man and enjoy being a kid.
Sounds like he didn't like your joke and used a poor choice of insult to make you feel what he felt. Maybe ask him why he did that? Sounds like he lashed out because he felt he was getting teased for being tall.
Mark didn't make the comment. Bill did. Reread the post. The majority of people comment need to reread the damn post
I’m on my 5th comment here, and I just can’t *believe* the number of people who have the situation upside down and backwards ! Reading comprehension is your friend, people ! Also heading toward a rage stroke over how many don’t think inside jokes and mutually agreeable teasing have any place in a friendship ! They all sound like a barrel of laughs 🙄
NTJ. I applaud the school for responding to your complaint the way they have. That said you’re absolutely right that your friend is never gonna experience what you have or anyone else has for that matter who is different than him. It’s a very uncomfortable and harsh truth, that white folks have had all the privileges in the world by design, the sad part about it is they designed it that way through colonialism. Every history lesson that you’re going to have is gonna prove that statement. I’m hoping that your friend Bill truly, truly understands and learns from this moment on, his place in the world and the that only way that the world changes is if more people understand the control and the privilege that they have, and use it to make the world much more inclusive place. The simple fact is, if we all look the same, acted the same, thought the same, moved the same, or behaved the same the world will be a monumentally boring place.
How do you know he's learned his lesson? Has he changed in any way?
>I understand that he now understands what he did wrong, but I feel that since he is white he will never have to face the same amount of racial prejudice. You just outed yourself as a racist bigot. He probably gets picked on all the time for being White. White kids who go to a PoC majority school get picked on RELENTLESSLY and being called "dog eater" would be considered a good day for them since they aren't getting stomped to death by their classmates. If this was the other way around, the admin would tell him to shut up and go away and there would be no punishment.
You’re totally justified in your anger. Consider this, though: forgiveness can be more for you than for him. Do you want to feel anger or hatred every time you see this guy? Do you want him living in your head? Or would you like to let it go and move on with your life with him being less than a consideration when you pass him by? One way to go about it: pity him. He’ll never understand the struggles of you and your family, but he’ll never truly appreciate the beauty and bonds you share either. The joy, light and perspective that your cultures bring into your life. He’ll go on living his vanilla existence while you’ll be experiencing yours in full technichrome color. Be well, my friend!
He was wrong and that was gross. But, you shouldn't be making jokes about your friend's height either. Just like your race, his height isn't something he can control, and you're pointing it out to him every time you see him. It's wrong to constantly point out to a person the thing that makes them different than others. It's bullying. I know you don't mean it that way, but that's what it is.
Stop the jokes about your tall friend's appearance. It WAS an inside joke. It was funny a couple of times. Stop it TODAY. NO ONE WANTS THEIR ENTIRE PERSONALITY TO BE ABOUT THEIR APPEARANCE. NEXT TIME YOU SEE HIM TELL HIM SOMETHING YOU ADMIRE ABOUT HIS PERSONALITY. Start being his friend. For all you know, he could have been muttering under his breath to the racist about how annoying your comments were becoming. At some point your tall friend will become a tall acquaintance because you are behaving very shallow when greeting them. Especially when you do it in front of others. TELLING INSIDE JOKES IN FRONT OF OTHER PEOPLE (ESPECIALLY WHERE YOU EXCLUDE ONE PERSON) IS VERY RUDE.
Telling inside jokes in front of other people (especially where you exclude ONE person) is very rude. Your own behavior here was appalling. No, you don't have to forgive the racist.
I also think people have added more to the meaning of forgiveness, loaded it with extra toppings. I think when people talk about forgiveness in this all encompassing manner, they really are talking about self forgiveness. When someone hurts you, regardless of who, you often put a lot of guilt on yourself. "If I only did this, why did I let my guard down?, I should have tried this, etc. etc." I think that's why people use that word even in situations where people do the unforgivable. I was raped and I put myself in danger. That does not mean I deserved it, or asked for it, or anything like that. But victimology teaches that a person holds some culpability in the crime by fitting a criminal's victim profile. Like being a certain hair color, looking meek and weak, online dating, being alone at night in a deserted area, prostitution, those types of things. I won't forgive that monster, but it is much harder to forgive myself. Actually I feel I escaped a sociopath that night. Because I think he's a sociopath, it's likely he doesn't have the required empathy. He was likely in part born this way. That's easier to forgive than being stupid and knowing better. I know logically it's not my fault but there is that illogical part getting in the way. To me in certain situations, words matter. And sometimes when dealing with big emotional issues, semantics does matter. So identifying forgiveness and acceptance might be very important for some. However, forgiveness has a more wide reaching meaning for others. I don't think anyone is technically wrong and there is no point down voting 😠 someone or getting upset.
The racist remark was definitely wrong but it makes me wonder if your friend, Mark is not as okay about your constant jokes about his height as you believe he is. Is it possible that Bill knew your comments made Mark uncomfortable and in an attempt to defend him took it too far? It’s up to you to decide whether or not to forgive Bill, but a bit of advice, cut the height comments. It may have been funny the first or second time, but Mark may have gotten tired of it at this point and is just not the type to confront you and let you know. Running jokes tend to get old, especially if someone is the butt of those jokes.
Mark is tall "Eifel tower". Bill is another friend who called OP a "dog eater".
OP consider forgiving but not forgetting, and be watchful to see if he ever makes another racist comment. At 13 yr old I think there is a slight chance he may not have realized how racist that comment was, and this may have been a wake up for him to realize it. I totally realize that the comment may be an indicator of his real opinions, which is why I'm suggesting OP paying attention to any other comments he makes for evidence for or against him being racist.
Failing to forgive is always a problem. You’re not hurting him by holding onto resentment. You’re hurting yourself.
I think he probably comes from a domestically abusive household that also may be racist and these behaviors were taught to him by people who: “love him.” You should forgive him because he probably has a really hard time at home and lashing out at people is actually a cry for attention. You should be his friend actually. He was probably jealous of you and the other kid’s close friendship. Basically what I’m saying is that he probably goes home to insults and varying degrees of humiliation everyday: he has already gotten his. He needs friends or he will just get worse with age.
You don't have to forgive thats fine but dont hold a grudge, I hope bill learns from it and becomes a better person thatd be a positive
Write another post when you’ve reached perfection! I’d be interested to know when you’ve reached it. Maybe, in the mean time (and on that journey) you can learn something about forgiveness! I’m not Christian but I like their saying: “Hate the sin but love the sinner!” If the sinner is showing awareness of the sin and how hurtful it may have been- as seems to be in your acquaintance’s case - then, yeah, you’re being a jerk!
This may not be a popular opinion, BUT, I’m guessing that Bill thought you were taking a dig at Mark, so in Mark’s defense, Bill took a dig at you. No doubt, his retort was quite stinging and inappropriate. I think the only innocent one here is Mark. There’s a time and place to dog on someone (no pun intended) and I think you’re partly responsible for Bill retorting. Maybe Mark has discussed with Bill about how he hates being called different building names but has a non-confrontational personality. 🤷🏻♀️ If not for your inside joke comment, Bill wouldn’t have said anything. Side note - five years ago I rescued two dogs from the Korean dog meat trade and when they misbehave, I remind them that they could have been shish kababs. Just an inside joke between me and my pups! 😜
You are certainly NTJ. I would encourage you to try to forgive. You and he are 13, and there are many life lessons to be learned. It sounds like this guy needed to learn that one, and hopefully he has. I'm not saying you're all young so he gets a pass. I am saying if you engage with him again and he absolutely makes no racial remarks you might consider this a victory - he now knows how hurtful words about race can be. It's a possibility.
This superbly demonstrates the difficulty in school/workplace relations. A third party present during an interaction either attempts to participate, or doesn't comprehend the relationship exchange. Someone becomes offended & makes a report. Feces to the oscillator. OP shouldn't idly make references to friends with others present. Nor should OP be deeply offended by the third party's lame attempt to participate. The parties would have been better off to attempt to get their own resolution. Complaints of any sort of Harassment often cause a panicked response on all sides. Admins feel they MUST take action, individuals either feel/believe they were under or over served, and often, those on the fringes feel a need to express some opinion without knowledge of the actual situation. BTW, Eiffel Tower has been construed in some situations to be a sexual reference, therefore perhaps OP was considered to be harassing. (I understand these are adolescents, and perceptions forming & evolving.)
NTJ It's good that Bill seems to be making an effort to understand what he did wrong and apologize. But your feelings are valid, too. Forgiveness is a personal journey. Forgiveness isn't owed. Forgiveness is acknowledging when your feelings toward the other person have been healed. You have to give yourself the time and space you need to work through your own feelings. You can only forgive the other person when **you** are emotionally ready to forgive them. If you're not ready yet, then you are not ready. For your own sake, you may want to talk to someone who can help you work through your feelings about why you can't forgive him yet.
You're the jerk for tattling on your friend for making a culturally insensitive remark in response to you calling him a name first. People who do that type of stuff are called crybullies. Making a culturally insensitive joke is not the same as racism. If he was a racist, he wouldn't have been your friend in the first place. If it bothered you that much, why didn't you just tell your friend?
Reread, Mark was the tall friend he had a ongoing friendly joke about his HEIGHT. This is a common thing in relationships with people of different heights. Bill who was there replied with a RACIAL SLUR. The comment was not directed at Bill. Bill had no reason to say anything. Bills the jerk and you sound like one to cause you didn’t get what you read.
TIL that “dog eater” is a slur for Asians.
Are you asking if you're a jerk for being a racist and establishing the norm or being upset the norm you established was applied to you?
YTJ. Dude makes a mistake and you gonna hold it against him forever? And I wouldn’t have reported it but I’m from a different era when you could get into a fight at school and it wasn’t the end of the world. And you’ve fallen for the line about white people not experiencing the same amount of prejudice. All of us experience some type of prejudice in their lives but you’re gonna rate everyone’s on a scale? People experience prejudice over their age, weight, appearance, where they’re from, how much money their dad makes, etc. Do you know this guy at all? If so, is he a jackass? nerd? Something else?
Not adding any judgement. Forgiveness is emotional and no one can make you do that before you're ready. His words only reflect on his ignorance, poor tact, and willingness to put other people down in an attempt to make people like him. That said, you are both so young and will grow into much fuller and kinder versions of yourself as you age. With each passing year, you may feel embarrassed about acting in ways that were harmful or ignorant. He will experience the same. While you never have to forgive him, it is very likely that he will grown to be a better person than he is today. Is anyone seriously pushing you to forgive him? As a teacher, I would make sure you two are no longer sitting near each other and giving him a serious stink eye whenever he so much as looks in your direction.
To be honest, I can't say whether you are or not as I don't even understand the racial slur he used. I don't get it. I understand the words but not the connotation. If he apologized, do you think he was sincere or did he apologize because he had to?
Dog eater is a common slur used to refer to south Asians. It's used because some south Asians were known to eat dogs for ceremonial or other reasons. Although dog eating isn't widely practiced anymore it's still used as a slur.
I understand, and youmay want tokeep your distance from him. But why do you think calling him the Eiffle Tower was ok? You did name calling. He did far worse.
I don't feel the "tall building" jabs are a single bit better. Don't want insulted? Don't insult. I know many people have trouble with this. It's not ok to use racial slurs. It's not.ok to use epithets either..and if it is, then racial slurs are also ok. Also no one is immune to this. Calling a white guy a "cracker" is exactly the same as the first slur you think of with a black person, Italian, Mexican, or Asian.
I will never understand who makes the rules for what’s acceptable ribbing and what crosses the line. Obviously, what “Bill” said is grossly inappropriate, but just because “Mark” doesn’t speak up about your jokes doesn’t mean you should say that either. I shave my head because of hair loss, so I figure rather than trying to hang on, I’ll just be proactive. It’s shocking how many people think it’s all in good fun to make jokes about my appearance. I often ask, if I were obese or had a missing limb or a different color of skin, would you make fun of that as well? So OP, while it was wrong of “Bill” To say what he did, just know that you probably have done or may still do things for which you will want mercy and forgiveness as well, so be gracious here. Besides, middle school brains aren’t even fully developed and capable of filtering their thoughts. But if he now knows how you feel and does it again, then that’ll be a completely different story.
What Bill did was wrong. However, as I read this, might I suggest not calling Mark by tall building names anymore. It's possible Mark has tired of it and mentioned it to Bill, who was a jerk about it.
The dude is a jerk but your over reacting as well.
Forgiveness isn't a right. You don't have to hand it out, desire society trying to tell you it's the right thing to do. It's only right if it feels comfortable and acceptable for you. One thing though; don't let hate twist you up on the inside.
Wait a minute, you started this mess and if the other boy wasn’t a racist , he is now!!!
You never have to forgive, but forgiveness isn’t for the other person, but it’s for you.
I gotta say at 13yo we do and say a lot of dumb shit. it's part of growing up and maturing, I'd hate to be held accountable for all the stupidity of my youth, so I'd say if he really is sorry, make an effort with him. btw, if dumb shit comes out of your mouth lol, recognise and apologise straight away... it's the best way. good luck buddy, hope it works out.
You can give it but you can’t take it. Youre a jerk and soft as well
I doubt he really wants to apologize. If you were friends before you won’t be now. Instead of telling him to his face how you felt, you went to the school admin. He will never trust you again and will probably become more racist as a result of how this went down. Not to demean your feelings, but he will keep his feelings inside from now on. Later on in life he will strike back if he runs a business by not hiring people of color and will probably feel good about it. This is how racism is perpetuated.
You're not a jerk, but you're going to have an extremely difficult life unless you thicken your skin. This is NOTHING in the grand scheme of things, and has very obviously had a significant impact on you.
Did he ever say it was alright for you to call him that? Just wondering.
Maybe he got tired of the joke and didn't think it was as funny as you thought it was
There are three separate people, please reread the post
You bith are 13 I think you need to cope and relaix you both are likely more sensitive than you give yourselves credit for
Lowkey, I don't know how old you are, but the fact that you're out here commenting "just calm down" on Reddit posts made by literal children that are experiencing BLATANT racism in the world around them shows me that maybe YOU'RE a little more sensitive than you give yourself credit for.
i am white, i grew up in a california town that was 80% latino/hispanic. the first time someone tried to cause me physical harm simply for being white i was 12 years old. i wouldnt be sure he isnt going to face anything worse than being called a dog eater in his lifetime.
While I do acknowledge that racism against white people exists, racism against Asian, black, Latinx and other communities heavily outweighs it
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Oh he definitely was
Well many Asians do eat dogs. And they have festivals based around eating dog and other creatures. If you are hungry and there is an abundance then what's the harm.In America all the animal shelters are way over populated and animals are euthanized everyday. I feel like there are many starving people in the US and if they ate all the animals they euthanized it would feel a lot of people. So what's the big deal? It's not a crime to survive. It's a crime to kill animals because people are negligent and don't spay or neuter. Pigs, cows and chickens are just as smart as dogs so it's just a waste of meat.
I wouldn’t even say many Asians though, dog eating his been banned in many countries and is looked down upon in some Asian societies. The holiday you are referring to isn’t even widely celebrated anymore.
Dude, you’re 13 years old. Forgive him, you’re going to do lots of stupid crap too while growing up.
It kinda sounds like part if the reason you are not forgiving him is because he’s white.
I don't think either joke was appropriate to be honest. A person's height is as unavoidable as their race.
Maybe he wasn’t racist and was just trying to tease you as a friend? Just to have a laugh you know
I don’t think I could find it in myself to laugh at blatant racism
NTJ. The fact he went there, something he is very much aware is hurtful, as his first response isn't a great reflection on him. Maybe he truly deeply regrets it, maybe it is out of character for him, but of he said that to your fa e has he said it behind your back? Does he hear that from his family? A lot of these are questions you won't know the answer to, and we cannot know the answer to, but think about what you know of him as a person. If you think he is genuinely remorseful and it was both a mistake and not who he normally is, maybe you can forgive (but not forget) and see if he learns from it. Or if you think you saw who he really is, then leave it as is. Whatever you decide, I'm sorry you went through that, and good luck with whatever you decide.
It wasn't okay to say it, but why allow this person's racism control what type of person you are? Are you a person who forgives, or a person who allows things to fester until you damage yourself and perhaps those around you? Forgiveness will not affect them, but it will allow you to live your life without them living rent free in your head.
It was an innocent mistake. Either he thought you all were okay with insulting each other and he was joining in or he thought you were being mean and was trying to show you how horrible you were being. He’s been punished and apologized. You can be hurt. But you need to forgive. In fact forgiveness in general isn’t about the person being sorry. It’s about letting go of hate and resentment so you’re not carrying it with you.
I feel I don’t need to do anything, when he did apologize it didn’t feel genuine and I genuinely don’t think he deserves it.
He lives with you? You're 13... how do you have roommates?
I meant classmates, sorry autocorrect sucks
Yes it does. You are not required to forgive anyone who hurts you. Apologies aside, look out for yourself first!
Thank you
“I feel that since he is white…..” You’re being a racist complaining about racism. Do you see yourself??!!
You're being a racist complaining about a non-racist complaining about actual racism. Do you see yourself???!!!
You should be calling your friend respectfully by his name, not by any physical characteristic. In my opinion, the boy who made the comeback remark did so to show you how it felt to be addressed inappropriately. Never make a spectacle out of others in that manner. Show respect, and there would be no problem. Another way of putting it is, if you can't take it, don't dish it out.
You don’t eat dog, do you?
Forgiveness is for you, not them. It allows you to let go and not let the resentment fester. You don’t even have to say it to him, just yourself. Deep breath, let it go.
NTJ buddy! “Bill” was way out of line, and you’re under absolutely no obligation to forgive him for what he’s done. If anyone has a problem with it just tell them “Forgiveness isn’t my job. It’s the job of (name your deity of choice) to forgive. That’s between Bill and (deity’s name), and no I won’t arrange the meeting.”
Don't ever go to a comedy show
Don't ever do comedy.💀
NTJ you dont HAVE to accept the apology you can say something to the effect of “Im glad you understand now the gravity of what you said but im not ready to forgive you.” That way you acknowledged that he understands what he said was bad but your still hurt by it. Im not saying what he did was “unforgivable” but if your not ready to accept thats perfectly valid as well. Dont let the school “force” forgiveness from you. Show him he has to earn it.
It’s tough. I was literally the only Jewish kid in town growing up, if I didn’t forgive ignorant insults and bad racist jokes, I’d have had like zero friends lol. Don’t forget, but do forgive is my advice. Obviously if it’s something that’s repeated after you’ve made it clear you’re not having it, no need to worry any further, Bill’s just a jerk, but it doesn’t seem like that’s the case here. You’re not required to like anyone, but in life, you too will likely do stupid, ignorant things. Thinking back on my worst experiences as a kid, almost none of the kids who said racist things even knew what they were talking about, and basically none are actual racists a-holes who would think of giving me a hard time now. I think you should ease up, just my opinion. If he does re-offend, drop him, and perhaps having a few good white insults in the chamber would be a good idea too, here’s a few pages of ideas for you: Just kidding, but you get the idea :) . It’s a trend nowadays to be permanently and irreparably offended, and those who live their lives that way tend to be the most unhappy people I know.
ESH. It's alright for you to make fun of your tall friend but when your acquaintance makes fun of you, you are all hurt. I understand teenage males say inappropriate things to each other. It is normal but to come on here an make yourself out to be the one really victimized is a bit much. Your acquaintance made a mistake saying that but he knew what you said to the other friend was not nice, either.
So you insult him for his apeareance and he insults you back and now your a victim.
NTJ No one is owed forgiveness. Forgiving someone is something we can do IF WE WANT, to further detatch ourselves from negative people. By forgiving them, truly, they won't weigh on you. But at that same time, some things cut to deep to forgive. And there is nothing wrong with that. Emotional injuries are just as real as physical ones. Some things scar. If an emotional injury is nothing you because you don't want it to keep weighing on you, then you can choose to try to use therapy or talk throughs through with someone trusted to see if you can resolve your feelings, but that is purely optional. Many times thinking about forgiving someone seems like if you forgive them you're denying the hurt they caused and are saying what they did wasn't so bad. While forgiving doesn't mean what they did wasn't so bad, you can't forgive someone if it hurts too much. If you have a huge open gash in your leg, pretending a bandaid will fix it is not only foolish, but improper treatment can make it worse. Give yourself permission to feel however feels right to you. Don't heap guilt onto yourself. You have done, and are not doing anything wrong by being honest with your feelings. Rather, it's good that you're able to be honest with yourself. And don't worry about Bill's feelings. One of the consequences of being a bigot/bully/abuser/asshole is that some people will have bad feelings for you. He chose his action. You not forgiving him is a normal consequence of that. He is owed nothing at all, whatsoever. Take care of yourself. I'm sorry you're having to deal with all this shit. Sending you internet hugs if you like them.
It’s a joke. Make a better joke back to him. Laugh and move on. If I got a dollar everytime someone call me a dog eater, rice eater, other Asian slurs that don’t even apply to what kind of Asian I am, i wouldn’t need a job anymore.
Well. Waaa--- F ing waaaaa Names. WTH! ."I went to the office and reported racial " blah blahhh Grow up because once your out of school. There isn't a office to whine to. Spend more time worrying about a career in your future, paying bills, But for now, be a kid not some stuffed shirt that believes causing a "word" to disrupt other students, the faulty is a good thing?. And the bad thing about it? Asian as well as others EAT DOGS!!