Tell her to try not to be intimidated because you can reach high noes that she struggles to get. That should annoy.
Do not allow her to take away your enjoyment in singing.
After next practice, tell F in a whisper that you fear she is right about straining your voice in her choir. Ask her how many weeks of resting your voice she prescribed for you. Nothing but whispers at church from now on.
What you do in school is another matter…..
That would definitely be the best option. Why endure the smug, fabricated superiority and stress involved? There are other very valid and easy outlets to use for singing.
I agree with this. I sang high soprano in my church and at school. Tell her you are careful with your voice, and if it ever got uncomfortable, you would stop pushing it.
There are probably other options for you to sing in the community. And maybe your parents will let you take voice lessons to get proper instruction instead of relying on a puffed up teenager.
Right?! I’m Petty Betty, I’d just not sing for them. Parents can force you to *go*, they cannot force the sound from your mouth. I’d just stand there, awkwardly staring at people with my mouth closed while everyone else sings. Who cares what your parents say about it.
Explain that you refuse to destroy your own voice by singing in a lower register/pitch than you are. She’s trying to ruin your voice. Like she said, her sister had her voice ruined by singing the wrong register she’s now trying to do that to you. She can fuck all the way off, and when she gets there, she can fuck off some more.
This tho because there is no way you gonna force me to sing. Definitely would've been standing with the choir, mouth closed, just staring. I never understood parents who force their kids into things they don't like/want to do.
At this point, just call her out.
"Well, it's a good thing I'm not your sister and you're not a real teacher because you don't know a damn thing. Now stop acting like you're going to break if you don't have everyone's attention for two minutes."
I sang mezzo soprano for 20 years. Tell her to call me so I can set her ignorance straight. You'll only get stronger and better, in the meantime there's all sorts of reasons why her sisters voice failed. Don't let her get to you, but ditch her.
Assuming that the whole church is not run by 16 year olds, I'd ask your parents to speak to whoever is in charge about a domineering know-it-all 16 year old making life miserable for others. It's ridiculous.
My BiL thinks I'm an archangel because I'm named after an archangel! Yay, all of my siblings are angels too! But if I would be (and I'd like to be), I would have been able to safe my wife's life, and I wasn't
When I joined my church's choir, it was great. I sing ok. They taught me a bit about reading music, and fun stuff . Our choir had singer on your caliber. She sang beautifully. But unlike you, she was always rude to me. Whatever, I had my friends there. A few times I had lost my voice, got it back, lost it again, got it back. I hadn't been at a rehearsal, but several guys said I should 'suit up.'. When I returned upstairs, you should have heard her complaining. The songs were CHRISTMAS CAROLS.
REALLY? They followed the book.
After that Sunday, I left the choir. Not long after I found a church more suited to me. ( A Calvary Chapel type)
Stop singing. You may have to go but that doesn't mean you have to participate. If she notices you not singing tell her that everyone who you work with singing says your a soprano but since she refuses to allow you to sing soprano then you can't sing.
Imagine being as pathetic as her, to dominate the tiniest corner of the world that she has any power over.
Tell her it really doesn’t matter what she says or does, she’s a sad little small town girl in a tiny, lame ass church and that you won’t miss either when you leave to live the real life she doesn’t even bother to dream of.
Then do yourself a favor and follow through with the threat. Life is too short to live in small towns dominated by insecure people.
Not a jerk, she's jealous. She's only a year older than you. Church choir girl here. I was also a high soprano in high school. There is nothing like the drama in a church singing group. Good Lord.
You can hit the notes because it's natural for your voice. Just sing, ignore her.
Now I'm in my 50s, I didn't use my singing voice for many years and my range is no longer as high but I can hit some lower notes with comfort and fullness that I couldn't in my youth so it's a tradeoff.
Also you couldn't drag back into the drama of church choir.
Why is a 16 yr old dictating what you do at church? Simple stop singing at church or speak to an elder aboit it. If you dont love this church speak to your parents and tell them you would like to explore some others in the area. Many have youth nights etc where you can get a feel for them and find one that ia the right fit for you . But i absolutely would not take any further direction from a 16 yr old
Pick something really powerful and high and sing it at her every time she opens her mouth to criticize you. Sing so loudly you drown her out. Then smile at her like an angel.
Tell F you are a high soprano and your choir teacher at school agrees with you. The choir teacher is an adult and certified to teach music. What is F's qualification?
Tell your parents you are uncomfortable in the church choir specifically because of F. You are volunteering your time and effort and do not deserve this much disrespect, especially by another girl barely older than you.
Maybe also tell your parents that you are concerned that this girl’s inexperience as a music teacher could ruin your voice permanently.
If you want to get really petty and put her in her place… Tell HER in front of everyone that your experienced music coach/teacher is concerned about her lack of experience and the vocal damage she could be causing to not just you but others in the group, and therefore, has advised you not to participate or take further instruction from an amateur.
If that doesn’t work, and you are forced by your parents or others to go to church choir practice, just spend your time sitting there scrolling on your phone or listening to music on headphones and don’t participate. No one can force you to sing. They can threaten you, but they can’t make you.
Have you asked your parents how this girl became the “boss” of this trio? Do you feel your parents would admonish you if you stood up for yourself? I think I’d tell my parents, I’m not singing with her anymore. Im not subjecting myself to her.
What would happen if you told your parents that?
I ask because until I was about 17 I was forced through the church doors every time they were open. I was made to sing in choir. And I was in an incredibly small church. One day I said “I’m not going to do this anymore. I’ll sing when I feel like singing” (I used to sing a lot of “specials”) “but I’m not going to go to choir practice twice each week and I’m not going to be put on the spot with singing specials.”
My mother, who was the music director, thought I was bluffing. The next Sunday, she called on me to sing something. I stayed in my seat and said “no thanks.” When she repeated herself, I said “no, I’m good.”
She later told me how I embarrassed her and such. I just said “I wouldn’t try it again then. I’m going to respond the same way every time.”
That was the beginning of me finding my own voice, so to speak.
I do want to say, my folks aren’t terrible. I think my mother saw keeping me that involved as a way to keep me out of trouble. It was never something she intended to punish me with or for….
That is why I’m not saying you should do what I did. I’m asking what you think the repercussions would be if you did stand up for yourself? My mother was incredibly religious, but she didn’t really fit the mold of the abusive religious zealot.
Just go to practice. Don't sing at all, if she asks why you aren't tell her you are concerned what happened to the last person who thought they could boss everybody around. When she asks what happened, tell her the group beat the shit out of her because she didn't stop, then ask her when the group is going Christmas caroling.
If she says anything and the adults try to yell at you, calmly ask them where they were when they were told she was verbally abusing everyone? And remind them the choir is not the Mormon tabernacle. It may be a church, but you can turn the other check to face her and straighten her out. Remember, even Jesus overturned the tables when he got mad!
I’ve been through church politics (specifically in music) and I understand that you’re expected to be nice even when someone else is clearly not acting that way.
If you can’t have a conversation with your parents and tell them that you’re not enjoying your role (or maybe you would be if F weren’t Queen of the Universe there), then you need to advocate for yourself in front of everyone else.
Consider the phrases: “My vocal range and comfort level is not your call.” “Is this really about my well being or are you having a problem making suitable song choices for the vocalists you have available to you?” “I’m even less thrilled about singing up here than you are.”
NTJ
2 words: malicious compliance.
2 other words: quiet quitting.
As far as the add thing goes, when school starts go talk to your counselor. If they agree it needs to be addressed ask if they’ll set up a meeting with your parents.
NTJ - go to your pastor and explain how she’s been treating you
Ask to have an adult put in charge
Everyone should have a chance to sing a song that illustrates their singing abilities the best
Everyone should be able to help choose songs to sing as a group and within each group song have each persons voice highlighted in mini solos throughout the song
Working together as a group
NTJ. Tell your parents, this entitled brat, and the adult in charge of the music ministry (an adult is actually in charge, even if it’s the pastor) that you will not sing under someone who isn’t a trained vocal teacher nor conductor. Make it clear that the reason is that she is asking you to do vocal harm to yourself by singing in a way and range that is not suited to your voice. If anyone tries to force you, then sit there and mouth the words. No one ever said you actually have to produce sound. If she tries to pull this ”who needs work” bs again, tell her that you trust your teachers at school who have education and experience over her, and any “work” you do vocally will be at their call not hers. If she tries to lecture you again regarding your voice, tell her you were unaware that she had already completed college and gotten at least her bachelors in vocal pedagogy and have the knowledge and experience to teach you how to use your own voice.
Tell your parents that you are concerned about the effects that your church choir will have on your ability to perform in your school choir and theater programs because you are being asked to do things that are detrimental to your vocal health in the church choir, and that until you have taken enough voice lessons with a knowledgeable ADULT teacher to help mitigate the effects you cannot continue singing with the church choir. Either that or until miss power trip is no longer involved with the choir or has left. Above all, phrase it in a way that makes it appear that it will affect your health and your education (lower grades in the fine arts programs you are involved in). This will be the way to get your parents to ease up, unless they’re the type that religion and it’s institution is above all and education doesn’t matter so no one should be going to school anyway.
But seriously, if all else fails just mouth the words. No one is going to know you aren’t actually singing as long as it’s not blatantly obvious. That means if you get put on Alto (which as a 1st Soprano…shame on them. Your range likely doesn’t go low enough for even 1st Alto. I know mine doesn’t), make sure you are mouthing the words in the rhythm that the Altos are singing.
How are you forced to sing? Someone holding a Bible to your head and saying they're not afraid to use it? Your parents may drag you to church and insist you be in the choir, but only you control your voice. So sing it out loud and proud or just stand there.
Idk if you, F, or A are aware, but there's 2 levels of soprano. 1st soprano is able to sing the really high notes without straining, 2nd soprano can exercise their voice to get really high, but will damage their voice if they push too hard.
Tell F that A is a 2nd soprano, and you're a 1st soprano. Your voice naturally goes higher because of that. If she still complains, tell her that you're not going to let another child tell you how to sing when your adult teacher at school encourages it.
Edit to add: I'm guessing you're in the US, because there's not that many other places that breed this level of Church Karen. When F complains about not being a child, ask her if she's legal voting age yet. Since she's not, she's still a child. Then walk away and don't fall into the argument trap.
NTA! How are you a brat? Your parents are making you sing. You know you sing soprano.
I’d ask F where her music or theater degree is. That she isn’t an expert. You know you’re voice and she doesn’t. If she doesn’t want you to sing soprano, you won’t sing at all. Tell your parents she’s trying to screw up your voice.
Refuse to sing as long as she’s in charge. Tell whoever is in charge of the church or who oversees the choir what’s going on.
Tell your parents that you will not be singing at church anymore. Pretend to be sick or have laryngitis every time it’s a singing day, if you have to.
Is she in charge or did she put herself in charge? I imagine there a an adult overseeing the choir. Let them know that little girl is drunk with power and not giving anyone else a chance. If she isn’t giving anyone else but herself and her sister solos, I imagine you’re not the only person who has a problem with this girl. Maybe if you speak up it’ll give others the courage to speak up as well. Thank her for her concern and tell her the unlike her sister, you have control over your voice I will continue to sing within your vocal range. If none of this works, tell your parents you quit or refuse to sing because F takes all the fun out of it. They can make you go to choir but they can’t make you sing. Maybe then they’ll speak up for you.
I would sing something they could never do, something complex an aria, or that shows off your vocal range and versatility something their paygrade and unable to accomplish displaying the talent they lack and then sit down.
Your parents really don't have your back when somebody's treating you like this?
Look I get it, I used to belong to a small church and they're just happy somebody's doing it so the fact that she's sort of taking over is fine with them because at least it's getting done! But you shouldn't have to sing in an uncomfortable range just because she doesn't know how to properly warm up before singing? Or was she just straining her voice by singing outside her natural range? Again not your problem!
Yes! You should say to her I am actually a soprano so I am not going to hurt my voice singing notes that I can naturally hit! Your sister is not a soprano and that is why she hurt her voice. If you cannot let people sing in their natural range then maybe you don't need to have any say in what people sing!
No,you would be telling the truth. This girl can’t have any actual credentials to be a choir director. Idk what kind of adults are tolerating this crap.
This is a girl, not a professional singing coach or teacher. As far as questions of what will damage your voice, I’d say leave it for the adults to work out.
NTJ. Most of us are obnoxious when we’re young. Some more than others (such as F). Do your best to let it roll off and do what you want . Sweetly thank her for her concern (while silently willing F to F off) but your voice is comfortable singing higher parts than most people and you feel comfortable with your range. Then just be you. Soon enough you’ll get to make your own decisions and not deal with her.
Learn tuvan throat singing, sygyt (siggit) khoomei (hoo-may) and kargyrra (car gear raa). Then hit her with either some high sygyt whistle overtones or ball dropping low karygyrra. Fuck em up girl! Lol
Be the jerk and lean way into it.
NTJ. Just because you're in a choir, doesn't mean people can't treat you as THEY please.
You just simply won't sing anything else other than what your natural voice can sing.
Maybe that's her plan after all. To mess up your voice by singing unnaturally.
Anyone who has a negative comment on here towards to you, more than likely like F. Unfortunately her parents created the monster and now everybody else has to deal with her. It feels like she’s their GC and can do no wrong. Doesn’t sound like they taught her, to treat others how she would like to be treated and it’s not what you say it’s how you say it.
So next time she tries to give you attitude and tell you what to do. Let her know a little kindness goes along way and a please and thank you is the way you ask someone to do something. If she continues to be disrespectful and ignore what you’ve said. Remind her etiquette dictates that if you initiate a conversation you must be respectful, in order to receive respect. She’s not entitled to it. Remember, that she’s not your parents and hardly your elder.
It’s important later bc I take choir class, know how to read sheet music, and know my vocal range. She’s homeschooled and therefore does not take choir.
Start singing off key and out of time. Get kicked out of the group. Then you won't have to put up with their bullshit anymore and can sing wherever the hell you choose :)
You could always just go to practice and sing the part she assigns you then go ahead and sing the soprano parts when you are singing for the church. Do it every time and be sure to sing nice and loud so everyone knows it is you singing. There is no way she will stop the song to chew you out in front of everyone and if she gets mad enough to kick you out of the choir it will be a double win for you. Some of the parishioners are going to compliment your beautiful voice and may even ask why you don’t do solos. Tell them you’ve never been assigned a solo but you will ask [name] about doing a solo next week. When you don’t get a solo then or in the future, but she or her sister consistently do, someone there is bound to ask questions. Let Miss Know it All explain to them why she has been hiding your light under a barrel,
Try telling your parents that, while you love singing, that F is making the act of doing so in church a hated activity for you.
My 6th grade teacher, at a Catholic grade school, decide that I should sing alto, because I could hit the lower notes, with a wide range.
I was a first soprano. She also wanted all the praise for the choir, so had the 6th, 7th and 8th grade choir sing at all funerals during the week, all masses during the school day, etc.
I could barely speak after singing those low notes for so an hour or so.
You can also tell your parents that F is trying to get you to ruin your voice by singling in a low register when your voice is more naturally high.
It also takes away the love of singing, in general. That teacher got fired after that year, for many reasons. I didn’t sing in a group again till I was a senior in HS. Of course, I got placed with the first sopranos. Memorizing the first part for Messiah was one of the highlights of my senior year.
Yep. The "mean girl" phenomenon. There was a book on this kind of behavior years ago - Queen Bees and Wanna Be's." It's a good book. You might want to check it out.
YWNBTJ for telling this girl to back off. But think on how to communicate "cleanly" here. It's a good exercise. Set a boundary and keep it. Boundaries are things that YOU do, not things that you want to make another person do.
"If you try to bring up my singing in my preferred section again, I will walk away." That's a boundary.
"I'm only going to continue this conversation if you speak to me with respect." Boundary.
"Hey stop that you poopy face." Not a boundary.
"You need to stop being such a jerk." Not a boundary.
"I don't feel comfortable with this interaction. Feel free to speak to me again when you're done judging my singing voice." That's a boundary.
F is a jerk. You sing what’s comfortable for you. F can make the sacrifices she needs to make. Don’t let anyone slide with that “be the bigger person” crap, either. You either sing what’s comfortable for you, or you don’t sing. Also, unless God sent Jesus into the choir and hand-picked F to make all the decisions, F doesn’t make the decisions.
Ask your parents to be supportive and not allow her to push you around. Let them know that the reason you will leave this church when you're 18 is because you're sick of them watching you being bullied.
It’s the usual “ give then an inch and they think they’re a ruler “ power goes to everyone’s heads especially the small minded
Not sure what you can do except challenge her with logic - she enjoys using the power to bully and be cruel
Talk to your parents you get attending church but you don’t want to sing and that either you get to stop or you’re gonna tell this girl something she isn’t gonna want to hear. I don’t think you’re bragging or a brat. Performers know what they can do. You’re a soprano. If your parents don’t listen, tell the girl, “I get that happened to your sister, but I’m not your sister. That happens when you force yourself to sing out of your range. My range is soprano. That’s where my choir teacher her as well as theatre teacher have me sing and no offense but I think I’ll take what they say. They’re trained not home schooled.”
I've found that the easiest way to get out of anything church-related is to say I'm not feeling "led" to do it. But it sounds like you ARE feeling led to find a new church, and you should.
This is a homeschool cluster fuck. You can’t do anything till you leave. Just sing to the least of your ability if your parents force you to attend *and sing.* And enjoy the fact that you have someplace else to go.
Cause that girl is miserable and she’s taking it out on “her” choir. The only place she has independence and a modicum of power in her life.
Tell her she was right and your voice is so injured, you can’t sing at church for at least six months. Then thank her for warning you of the danger and that now you will be on it; taking care of your voice consciously.
Her head might explode!
You're in a church, so hit her some classic church sass
"God says don't covet thy neighbor, so can you stop being jealous of my voice and let me sing?" " Please stop being envious of my voice, "
NTJ. Don't let anyone tell you to stop what you love
She said her parents won't let her quit and have seen first hand she is being berated.
Personally, I'd be petty and start singing bad just at church....maybe she will just "fire" you. Or do weird changes to a song...at church while you're all singing...that'd be awesome.
She is a bully and I'm sorry you have to be exposed to that. It's gonna make you hate singing and then what?! You need to sit down maturely with your parents, have a list of things or even just a letter that you read to them. Let them know how you have been feeling. If they are worth a darn as parents they will come up with a reason why you have other plans than singing in the group.
If not just start sucking. Once you are old enough and out on your own this "community " will fall away. You can hear their slides but laugh at them that they too are part of the joke.
My go to when people make snide retorts is to wink and smile at them. Works every time to make them side step and a little uncomfortable. It's so worth it.
It's hard to be a strong woman in your age group with other bullies around not being checked. The reality is they will disappear into their church group while you follow your dreams. This is clearly all she has. Let her have it, wink smile and walk away.
Best of luck to you. You'll laugh about it later if you just give a wink and walk away.
It never makes anyone look good when an inexperienced mean girl is put in charge of others. She clearly is not capable of being in a supervisor or instructional/decision-making position.
I saw this happen on a volleyball team. There is a position called a “setter.” Their job is to hit the ball high, low, medium, or into a specific position for a designated person to then be ready for it and get it over the net. Once the position of the ball is called out, the person ready to receive the ball is expecting the setter to get the ball into that specific area/height.
The setter has a lot of power to make other players look bad by intentionally putting the ball into the wrong position where the other player isn’t expecting it. They can also play favorites with other players doing the opposite for them.
The crazy thing is, it isn’t just a few players looking incompetent and unprepared, it makes the whole team look bad just because an individual in a position of power is being a vindictive jealous asshole.
Don’t let this jealous, inexperienced, power-hungry teenager take your joy of singing from you. Do not take instruction from her that will be harmful to you. If she assigns songs to you that are not in your voice range trying to get you to sound awful, don’t participate. Refuse to sing those pieces.
Who knows, maybe others are just as sick of her as you are and just don’t have the courage to stand up for themselves and go against her and her sister. Maybe once they see you doing it, they will also speak up and maybe she will be demoted!
Ugh I wish I had advice for this, but since you're being forced into it, I don't know that I have anything helpful. Best case scenario is probably just sit back and let her make a fool of herself. This behaviour doesn't stop with adulthood unfortunately. I was in a church band for years, and one of the lead vocalists was like this. She HATED when I was given the lead on songs, and when she was in charge of the worship team when our usual leader was away, she would try to sabotage me whenever she could. I just grit my teeth and "killed her with kindness," and in the end she ended up looking like a massive asshole.
Just tell her, “Thank you for your input, but I’m going to keep singing soprano.” Then listen to her dumb lecture and say, “Again, I appreciate your concern, but I’m gonna sing soprano”. Just stand your ground and be respectful about it. If she says something like, “well I’m not gonna let you sing then, just tell her something like, “You’ll have to talk to my parents about that. Until then, I’ll stay here and sing.”
Good luck
ETA: I had issues with 2 girls in high school and my mom told me to always take the high road because the people around you will always be on your side because of it. She was right
NTJ. If she was actually ruling you out then she deserved what just came to her face. Her competence wasn't really necessary at the moment and you were just in time for her dismissal.
Honey, you can say that you’ll sing a soprano part or nothing and let that be the end of it. It’s a church choir. You don’t have to be in it. You think you must, but you do not.
Why the f is a 16yo in charge of the church choir? Isn’t there an actual church official who is supposed to be the choir director? Is the choir only made up of kids?
If your parents refuse to allow you to drop church choir, just show up & pretend to sing. If there are adults in the choir. Why not ask them why they are allowing a 16yo girl dictate what the choir sings & who gets to sing the solos, especially since she’s had no formal training?
After all, you have school choir and your acting to show off your singing talent.
I think I have some advice for you since I was was an older sibling who has a younger sibling that acted like she was the older one. So much so that her friends were surprised that I was older because of the way my sister talked about me. That is probably a toxic home life that they are coming from. I’m also AuDHD, so I understand where you are coming from as far as trying to describe who you are for context, not recognition. You are 15 and a lot of adults forget what it was like to be 15 and still under the power of your parents. I remember what it was like.
It would not be a good idea to confront F. F is not ready to hear any kind of constructive criticism as this point in her life and will just become actively hostile if you do. She likely feels very powerless at home and having control over this aspect of her life (and other people) is probably one of her biggest coping mechanisms. So again, a confrontation is only likely to make her feel personally attacked, which might lead her to take revenge. Unless your parents really have your back, you aren’t going to win this fight. This happens sometimes in adult life too, so take it as a life lesson and start grey rocking F. That’s the only way through without it becoming a huge kerfuffle.
You will be old enough in a few years you can leave that little church with the small minded people behind you. One day you won't have to go to church anymore and it may be the best feeling ever knowing that they can't make you do anything ever again
Talk to your folks and tell them you dont want to take part in their (haughty homeschooler) power trip anymore. You may have to be willing to take your parents' punishments if they dont let you quit.
If forced to keep singing, do so as badly as possible. Be utterly off key at random times. See if you can get Homeslice to cut you from the group. Failing that...Burp during her or her sister's solos. Loud as you can. Full prank war. If they want to call you a toddler, give them toddler.
ULPT: You want to fix this with the tools you got? Sing everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, out of tune. Like tone deaf out of pitch. Start slow, just a little off key, then after a week or two go low and awful. If and when you get called out, play doe-eyed innocent, “….But you told me to sing the low part so I’m doing the harmony!”
Enjoy your petty revenge making everyone cringe. Bet they find you another activity before you know it. NTJ.
This is the best suggestion I've read so far. I know it's hard for someone who sings in tune to deliberately sing off-key, as I just finished a show yesterday in which I had to do just that. But it's easier for a high soprano to veer off than it is for a baritone like me, since there's less room for error.
If you can't do this, just refuse to sing. "I cannot and will not be pushed around by a 16-year-old with no professional credentials. Get someone who acts like an adult and is willing to take the position, or I will be unable to sing in this choir."
-EXTRA DEXTRAdeeeextra EDIT-
You need to find a new venue. Maybe try the school chorus, or local glee club.
It's wonderful that you love to sing. It's wonderful that you enjoy your own voice.
Going around saying how high you can sing is not going to do you any favors. Even just in passing on Reddit. If you want to go places with your voice, you need to either save up allowance or get a part-time job when you're old enough, and get formal vocal training.
After you've achieved that for a year or two, then you can get better options for finding a good music vocational career for your voice. Whining about some girl at church or even participating when you hate it is pretty counterproductive.
Also, please, please be gentle with your pipes. The high first soprano notes are incredibly risky when you are switching from chest to head voice. Those wispy thin chords are incredibly fragile. Injury is a real risk. Always remember to warm up and do scales for at least 20 minutes before jumping from chest to head voice at full volume.
Not ranting, being honest and giving honest advice. When you're 15, sometimes, asspats don't help anymore. Solid advice on how to better yourself is a more reliable source of insight.
I totally get it if she needs to vent. Everybody needs to vent when they deal with insufferable jerks. But this is not the sub for that.
OP wasn't tooting their own horn, and they were not being a jerk. I have no idea why you have had such a negative reaction to this post. Calling OP an egotistical brat is inaccurate, and just plain mean.
Yeah I edited that out. Just kind of having flashbacks of girls like her that bullied me and my friends when we were that age, because they themselves were bullied by people like the nasty church girl. My point is still valid.
Egos destroy careers. If she's got a natural first soprano voice, that's excellent, it shouldn't be wasted. She also should definitely not risk damaging it, since the vocal cords that control the highest notes in the human vocal range are incredibly fragile.
Getting some vocal training from a professional would really benefit her. Some vocal trainers even are good gateways to get into competitions and professional choirs that are far more selective about their members, especially ones that utilize members for what their voice is best for. Not by dumb seniority hierarchy.
Except that the one behaving that way was the girl who was bullying OP. You say you don't like bullies, but you went after the victim of a bully as if they were the problem.
You also went after a 15 year old in a pretty nasty way because you were taking out your own frustrations about stuff that happened in your childhood.
For someone who says they don't like bullies, you are doing a remarkable job of acting like one.
You aren't listening/reading. You're inserting a lot of narrative. What I'm saying is very helpful to anyone who wants to go into the singing vocation.
You are the one who inserted a lot in OP's narrative. There was no bragging. There was no bullying from OP. You just made that up.
I am reading. I do understand. I simply disagree with your behavior toward the OP. You are trying to make it seem as if you were helping, but you called OP names and were really mean. Trying to edit yourself after the fact doesn't change that.
You're not listening. Yes she bragged a lot about her voice to us. An attitude issue not behavioral. Now I've totally changed my comment since apparently saying anything even slightly negative is just too much for anybody, nowadays.
They’re not tooting their own horn. They’re saying someone in the ‘team’ isn’t being a team player basically. In a ‘team’ you need to be understanding and helpful, not just say no don’t do that you can’t. Op is asking would it be wrong to tell her what they want. You’re semi sounding like that girl.
It's not really a team thing. If it's a church group, and even in casual choirs, there's usually a pecking order. It's the ugly truth. The director will usually favor the more senior members. A lot of choral groups are pretty vicious, actually.
The vocal scene can get incredibly toxic.
That would've been nice. But, I kinda had to make my own way. I actually have a lot of experience with the vocal scene. Dealt with a lot of people like OP and her evil homeschool church enemy. It's just not a healthy view.
You gotta try to better yourself, but looking down on others won't help. She's still being bad by humble bragging in a thinly veiled attempt to vent under the guise of asking if she's a jerk or not.
I'm mostly trying to get her to be honest with herself. Self reflection is the best step for improvement and success.
Tell her to try not to be intimidated because you can reach high noes that she struggles to get. That should annoy. Do not allow her to take away your enjoyment in singing.
After next practice, tell F in a whisper that you fear she is right about straining your voice in her choir. Ask her how many weeks of resting your voice she prescribed for you. Nothing but whispers at church from now on. What you do in school is another matter…..
Tell her she’s right. Her sister can sing the parts. You quit. You don’t like doing it. You can blame it on her. Bounce.
This right here!!!!!
That would definitely be the best option. Why endure the smug, fabricated superiority and stress involved? There are other very valid and easy outlets to use for singing.
Ask her where she got her degree? NTJ
"Where did you get your degree? I forgot. Was it a Bachelor's or a Doctorate of Homeschool?"
Lottery
Not the jerk and do not let her dim your sparkle.
I agree with this. I sang high soprano in my church and at school. Tell her you are careful with your voice, and if it ever got uncomfortable, you would stop pushing it. There are probably other options for you to sing in the community. And maybe your parents will let you take voice lessons to get proper instruction instead of relying on a puffed up teenager.
Right?! I’m Petty Betty, I’d just not sing for them. Parents can force you to *go*, they cannot force the sound from your mouth. I’d just stand there, awkwardly staring at people with my mouth closed while everyone else sings. Who cares what your parents say about it. Explain that you refuse to destroy your own voice by singing in a lower register/pitch than you are. She’s trying to ruin your voice. Like she said, her sister had her voice ruined by singing the wrong register she’s now trying to do that to you. She can fuck all the way off, and when she gets there, she can fuck off some more.
This tho because there is no way you gonna force me to sing. Definitely would've been standing with the choir, mouth closed, just staring. I never understood parents who force their kids into things they don't like/want to do.
At this point, just call her out. "Well, it's a good thing I'm not your sister and you're not a real teacher because you don't know a damn thing. Now stop acting like you're going to break if you don't have everyone's attention for two minutes."
I like this one the best tbh. Especially that last bit. lol But yes. I’d call her on her shit and confront her. Fuck that noise tbh.
THIS... TOTALLY THIS
👏
I sang mezzo soprano for 20 years. Tell her to call me so I can set her ignorance straight. You'll only get stronger and better, in the meantime there's all sorts of reasons why her sisters voice failed. Don't let her get to you, but ditch her.
Tell them all you are done with that church and will never sing there again as long as she is involved.
Assuming that the whole church is not run by 16 year olds, I'd ask your parents to speak to whoever is in charge about a domineering know-it-all 16 year old making life miserable for others. It's ridiculous.
That's what I was thinking. How is a child put in charge of other children. Where are the adults in the church.
They're with the little boys in private
Took the words right out my mouth 🤣🤣🤣
😂
I don't believe the parents care why he doesn't want to do it. To them he's being a rebellious teenager.
OP is a female, not a male.
my bad
Tell her God came to you in a dream and said you sing soprano like his angels. Let her refute that.
My BiL thinks I'm an archangel because I'm named after an archangel! Yay, all of my siblings are angels too! But if I would be (and I'd like to be), I would have been able to safe my wife's life, and I wasn't
I'm so sorry for your loss.
Thank you! It's hard raising two teenager when you're alone from all of the sudden
Awesome 😂
When I joined my church's choir, it was great. I sing ok. They taught me a bit about reading music, and fun stuff . Our choir had singer on your caliber. She sang beautifully. But unlike you, she was always rude to me. Whatever, I had my friends there. A few times I had lost my voice, got it back, lost it again, got it back. I hadn't been at a rehearsal, but several guys said I should 'suit up.'. When I returned upstairs, you should have heard her complaining. The songs were CHRISTMAS CAROLS. REALLY? They followed the book. After that Sunday, I left the choir. Not long after I found a church more suited to me. ( A Calvary Chapel type)
Stop singing. You may have to go but that doesn't mean you have to participate. If she notices you not singing tell her that everyone who you work with singing says your a soprano but since she refuses to allow you to sing soprano then you can't sing.
Imagine being as pathetic as her, to dominate the tiniest corner of the world that she has any power over. Tell her it really doesn’t matter what she says or does, she’s a sad little small town girl in a tiny, lame ass church and that you won’t miss either when you leave to live the real life she doesn’t even bother to dream of. Then do yourself a favor and follow through with the threat. Life is too short to live in small towns dominated by insecure people.
"The fighting was especially vicious because the stakes were so small."
Ntj good luck op.
Not a jerk, she's jealous. She's only a year older than you. Church choir girl here. I was also a high soprano in high school. There is nothing like the drama in a church singing group. Good Lord. You can hit the notes because it's natural for your voice. Just sing, ignore her. Now I'm in my 50s, I didn't use my singing voice for many years and my range is no longer as high but I can hit some lower notes with comfort and fullness that I couldn't in my youth so it's a tradeoff. Also you couldn't drag back into the drama of church choir.
Why is a 16 yr old dictating what you do at church? Simple stop singing at church or speak to an elder aboit it. If you dont love this church speak to your parents and tell them you would like to explore some others in the area. Many have youth nights etc where you can get a feel for them and find one that ia the right fit for you . But i absolutely would not take any further direction from a 16 yr old
NTJ! Quit the Choir and stay in your school's Choir. You can return when the bully is gone.
Turn your back on her and hit high notes.
Pick something really powerful and high and sing it at her every time she opens her mouth to criticize you. Sing so loudly you drown her out. Then smile at her like an angel.
Tell F you are a high soprano and your choir teacher at school agrees with you. The choir teacher is an adult and certified to teach music. What is F's qualification? Tell your parents you are uncomfortable in the church choir specifically because of F. You are volunteering your time and effort and do not deserve this much disrespect, especially by another girl barely older than you.
Maybe also tell your parents that you are concerned that this girl’s inexperience as a music teacher could ruin your voice permanently. If you want to get really petty and put her in her place… Tell HER in front of everyone that your experienced music coach/teacher is concerned about her lack of experience and the vocal damage she could be causing to not just you but others in the group, and therefore, has advised you not to participate or take further instruction from an amateur. If that doesn’t work, and you are forced by your parents or others to go to church choir practice, just spend your time sitting there scrolling on your phone or listening to music on headphones and don’t participate. No one can force you to sing. They can threaten you, but they can’t make you.
2nd paragraph ~ got it spot on. Your parents can't even argue with that
Have you asked your parents how this girl became the “boss” of this trio? Do you feel your parents would admonish you if you stood up for yourself? I think I’d tell my parents, I’m not singing with her anymore. Im not subjecting myself to her. What would happen if you told your parents that? I ask because until I was about 17 I was forced through the church doors every time they were open. I was made to sing in choir. And I was in an incredibly small church. One day I said “I’m not going to do this anymore. I’ll sing when I feel like singing” (I used to sing a lot of “specials”) “but I’m not going to go to choir practice twice each week and I’m not going to be put on the spot with singing specials.” My mother, who was the music director, thought I was bluffing. The next Sunday, she called on me to sing something. I stayed in my seat and said “no thanks.” When she repeated herself, I said “no, I’m good.” She later told me how I embarrassed her and such. I just said “I wouldn’t try it again then. I’m going to respond the same way every time.” That was the beginning of me finding my own voice, so to speak. I do want to say, my folks aren’t terrible. I think my mother saw keeping me that involved as a way to keep me out of trouble. It was never something she intended to punish me with or for…. That is why I’m not saying you should do what I did. I’m asking what you think the repercussions would be if you did stand up for yourself? My mother was incredibly religious, but she didn’t really fit the mold of the abusive religious zealot.
NTA, and you're definitely not a brat. Church is not employment or school -- nothing will be affected by you speaking your mind openly with her.
Just go to practice. Don't sing at all, if she asks why you aren't tell her you are concerned what happened to the last person who thought they could boss everybody around. When she asks what happened, tell her the group beat the shit out of her because she didn't stop, then ask her when the group is going Christmas caroling. If she says anything and the adults try to yell at you, calmly ask them where they were when they were told she was verbally abusing everyone? And remind them the choir is not the Mormon tabernacle. It may be a church, but you can turn the other check to face her and straighten her out. Remember, even Jesus overturned the tables when he got mad!
Talk to your parents tell them you won’t sing as long as she’s in charge explain you really enjoy singing at church
I’ve been through church politics (specifically in music) and I understand that you’re expected to be nice even when someone else is clearly not acting that way. If you can’t have a conversation with your parents and tell them that you’re not enjoying your role (or maybe you would be if F weren’t Queen of the Universe there), then you need to advocate for yourself in front of everyone else. Consider the phrases: “My vocal range and comfort level is not your call.” “Is this really about my well being or are you having a problem making suitable song choices for the vocalists you have available to you?” “I’m even less thrilled about singing up here than you are.” NTJ
Just quit singing for the church. Easy peasy.
2 words: malicious compliance. 2 other words: quiet quitting. As far as the add thing goes, when school starts go talk to your counselor. If they agree it needs to be addressed ask if they’ll set up a meeting with your parents.
NTJ - go to your pastor and explain how she’s been treating you Ask to have an adult put in charge Everyone should have a chance to sing a song that illustrates their singing abilities the best Everyone should be able to help choose songs to sing as a group and within each group song have each persons voice highlighted in mini solos throughout the song Working together as a group
The pastor is probably her dad.
I hate church so I would probably purposely sing way off key and gag randomly. But that’s me.
Kitty cat, is that you?
Billy and the Boingers rides again! ACK.
NTJ. Tell your parents, this entitled brat, and the adult in charge of the music ministry (an adult is actually in charge, even if it’s the pastor) that you will not sing under someone who isn’t a trained vocal teacher nor conductor. Make it clear that the reason is that she is asking you to do vocal harm to yourself by singing in a way and range that is not suited to your voice. If anyone tries to force you, then sit there and mouth the words. No one ever said you actually have to produce sound. If she tries to pull this ”who needs work” bs again, tell her that you trust your teachers at school who have education and experience over her, and any “work” you do vocally will be at their call not hers. If she tries to lecture you again regarding your voice, tell her you were unaware that she had already completed college and gotten at least her bachelors in vocal pedagogy and have the knowledge and experience to teach you how to use your own voice. Tell your parents that you are concerned about the effects that your church choir will have on your ability to perform in your school choir and theater programs because you are being asked to do things that are detrimental to your vocal health in the church choir, and that until you have taken enough voice lessons with a knowledgeable ADULT teacher to help mitigate the effects you cannot continue singing with the church choir. Either that or until miss power trip is no longer involved with the choir or has left. Above all, phrase it in a way that makes it appear that it will affect your health and your education (lower grades in the fine arts programs you are involved in). This will be the way to get your parents to ease up, unless they’re the type that religion and it’s institution is above all and education doesn’t matter so no one should be going to school anyway. But seriously, if all else fails just mouth the words. No one is going to know you aren’t actually singing as long as it’s not blatantly obvious. That means if you get put on Alto (which as a 1st Soprano…shame on them. Your range likely doesn’t go low enough for even 1st Alto. I know mine doesn’t), make sure you are mouthing the words in the rhythm that the Altos are singing.
How are you forced to sing? Someone holding a Bible to your head and saying they're not afraid to use it? Your parents may drag you to church and insist you be in the choir, but only you control your voice. So sing it out loud and proud or just stand there.
Idk if you, F, or A are aware, but there's 2 levels of soprano. 1st soprano is able to sing the really high notes without straining, 2nd soprano can exercise their voice to get really high, but will damage their voice if they push too hard. Tell F that A is a 2nd soprano, and you're a 1st soprano. Your voice naturally goes higher because of that. If she still complains, tell her that you're not going to let another child tell you how to sing when your adult teacher at school encourages it. Edit to add: I'm guessing you're in the US, because there's not that many other places that breed this level of Church Karen. When F complains about not being a child, ask her if she's legal voting age yet. Since she's not, she's still a child. Then walk away and don't fall into the argument trap.
NTA! How are you a brat? Your parents are making you sing. You know you sing soprano. I’d ask F where her music or theater degree is. That she isn’t an expert. You know you’re voice and she doesn’t. If she doesn’t want you to sing soprano, you won’t sing at all. Tell your parents she’s trying to screw up your voice.
Refuse to sing as long as she’s in charge. Tell whoever is in charge of the church or who oversees the choir what’s going on. Tell your parents that you will not be singing at church anymore. Pretend to be sick or have laryngitis every time it’s a singing day, if you have to.
Is she in charge or did she put herself in charge? I imagine there a an adult overseeing the choir. Let them know that little girl is drunk with power and not giving anyone else a chance. If she isn’t giving anyone else but herself and her sister solos, I imagine you’re not the only person who has a problem with this girl. Maybe if you speak up it’ll give others the courage to speak up as well. Thank her for her concern and tell her the unlike her sister, you have control over your voice I will continue to sing within your vocal range. If none of this works, tell your parents you quit or refuse to sing because F takes all the fun out of it. They can make you go to choir but they can’t make you sing. Maybe then they’ll speak up for you.
Talk to your parents about all of this. They should be helping you with this. You are not mature enough to handle this yourself.
I would sing something they could never do, something complex an aria, or that shows off your vocal range and versatility something their paygrade and unable to accomplish displaying the talent they lack and then sit down.
Your parents really don't have your back when somebody's treating you like this? Look I get it, I used to belong to a small church and they're just happy somebody's doing it so the fact that she's sort of taking over is fine with them because at least it's getting done! But you shouldn't have to sing in an uncomfortable range just because she doesn't know how to properly warm up before singing? Or was she just straining her voice by singing outside her natural range? Again not your problem! Yes! You should say to her I am actually a soprano so I am not going to hurt my voice singing notes that I can naturally hit! Your sister is not a soprano and that is why she hurt her voice. If you cannot let people sing in their natural range then maybe you don't need to have any say in what people sing!
This church is abusive, do everything you can to leave and distance yourself from it
No,you would be telling the truth. This girl can’t have any actual credentials to be a choir director. Idk what kind of adults are tolerating this crap.
This is a girl, not a professional singing coach or teacher. As far as questions of what will damage your voice, I’d say leave it for the adults to work out.
Don't worry Bon Jovi was Devil music. Gangsta rap was ok
NTJ. Most of us are obnoxious when we’re young. Some more than others (such as F). Do your best to let it roll off and do what you want . Sweetly thank her for her concern (while silently willing F to F off) but your voice is comfortable singing higher parts than most people and you feel comfortable with your range. Then just be you. Soon enough you’ll get to make your own decisions and not deal with her.
She is insecure.
NTJ.
Match her energy
Tell her your body your choice
NTJ
Learn tuvan throat singing, sygyt (siggit) khoomei (hoo-may) and kargyrra (car gear raa). Then hit her with either some high sygyt whistle overtones or ball dropping low karygyrra. Fuck em up girl! Lol Be the jerk and lean way into it.
NTj. Tell her good, if you lose your voice for a year you won’t have to put up with her anymore.
NTJ. Just because you're in a choir, doesn't mean people can't treat you as THEY please. You just simply won't sing anything else other than what your natural voice can sing. Maybe that's her plan after all. To mess up your voice by singing unnaturally.
Anyone who has a negative comment on here towards to you, more than likely like F. Unfortunately her parents created the monster and now everybody else has to deal with her. It feels like she’s their GC and can do no wrong. Doesn’t sound like they taught her, to treat others how she would like to be treated and it’s not what you say it’s how you say it. So next time she tries to give you attitude and tell you what to do. Let her know a little kindness goes along way and a please and thank you is the way you ask someone to do something. If she continues to be disrespectful and ignore what you’ve said. Remind her etiquette dictates that if you initiate a conversation you must be respectful, in order to receive respect. She’s not entitled to it. Remember, that she’s not your parents and hardly your elder.
This is kinda obvious. Tell your parents, tell everyone to fvck off and do teenager things in your spare time.
Still waiting to see how her being homeschooled is important later.
In my limited experience with homeschooled kids, they have exhibited little ability in the area of social skills. Gee, I wonder why.
That, and the inflated sense of self.
It’s important later bc I take choir class, know how to read sheet music, and know my vocal range. She’s homeschooled and therefore does not take choir.
Start singing off key and out of time. Get kicked out of the group. Then you won't have to put up with their bullshit anymore and can sing wherever the hell you choose :)
You could always just go to practice and sing the part she assigns you then go ahead and sing the soprano parts when you are singing for the church. Do it every time and be sure to sing nice and loud so everyone knows it is you singing. There is no way she will stop the song to chew you out in front of everyone and if she gets mad enough to kick you out of the choir it will be a double win for you. Some of the parishioners are going to compliment your beautiful voice and may even ask why you don’t do solos. Tell them you’ve never been assigned a solo but you will ask [name] about doing a solo next week. When you don’t get a solo then or in the future, but she or her sister consistently do, someone there is bound to ask questions. Let Miss Know it All explain to them why she has been hiding your light under a barrel,
So she is the person in charge of the choir department? If she is you get to listen to her. If she is not then don’t.
Try telling your parents that, while you love singing, that F is making the act of doing so in church a hated activity for you. My 6th grade teacher, at a Catholic grade school, decide that I should sing alto, because I could hit the lower notes, with a wide range. I was a first soprano. She also wanted all the praise for the choir, so had the 6th, 7th and 8th grade choir sing at all funerals during the week, all masses during the school day, etc. I could barely speak after singing those low notes for so an hour or so. You can also tell your parents that F is trying to get you to ruin your voice by singling in a low register when your voice is more naturally high. It also takes away the love of singing, in general. That teacher got fired after that year, for many reasons. I didn’t sing in a group again till I was a senior in HS. Of course, I got placed with the first sopranos. Memorizing the first part for Messiah was one of the highlights of my senior year.
Yep. The "mean girl" phenomenon. There was a book on this kind of behavior years ago - Queen Bees and Wanna Be's." It's a good book. You might want to check it out. YWNBTJ for telling this girl to back off. But think on how to communicate "cleanly" here. It's a good exercise. Set a boundary and keep it. Boundaries are things that YOU do, not things that you want to make another person do. "If you try to bring up my singing in my preferred section again, I will walk away." That's a boundary. "I'm only going to continue this conversation if you speak to me with respect." Boundary. "Hey stop that you poopy face." Not a boundary. "You need to stop being such a jerk." Not a boundary. "I don't feel comfortable with this interaction. Feel free to speak to me again when you're done judging my singing voice." That's a boundary.
Tell her you list your voice and need to quit
F is a jerk. You sing what’s comfortable for you. F can make the sacrifices she needs to make. Don’t let anyone slide with that “be the bigger person” crap, either. You either sing what’s comfortable for you, or you don’t sing. Also, unless God sent Jesus into the choir and hand-picked F to make all the decisions, F doesn’t make the decisions.
NTJ. But I'd just quit singing. They can make you go, but they cannot make you sing.
Ask your parents to be supportive and not allow her to push you around. Let them know that the reason you will leave this church when you're 18 is because you're sick of them watching you being bullied.
It’s the usual “ give then an inch and they think they’re a ruler “ power goes to everyone’s heads especially the small minded Not sure what you can do except challenge her with logic - she enjoys using the power to bully and be cruel
Just go up and don't sing. They can't FORCE you to sing.
Talk to your parents you get attending church but you don’t want to sing and that either you get to stop or you’re gonna tell this girl something she isn’t gonna want to hear. I don’t think you’re bragging or a brat. Performers know what they can do. You’re a soprano. If your parents don’t listen, tell the girl, “I get that happened to your sister, but I’m not your sister. That happens when you force yourself to sing out of your range. My range is soprano. That’s where my choir teacher her as well as theatre teacher have me sing and no offense but I think I’ll take what they say. They’re trained not home schooled.”
NTJ If you really want a low blow , tell her you love her and forgive her because everyone can see why she had to be homeschooled, poor lamb
No, it's just the truth, and I think somebody has to tell her that. She doesn't sound like their parents say ever "no" to her
Dude, that last time I sang except under the shower was in music class, and I'm in my fifties
I've found that the easiest way to get out of anything church-related is to say I'm not feeling "led" to do it. But it sounds like you ARE feeling led to find a new church, and you should.
This is a homeschool cluster fuck. You can’t do anything till you leave. Just sing to the least of your ability if your parents force you to attend *and sing.* And enjoy the fact that you have someplace else to go. Cause that girl is miserable and she’s taking it out on “her” choir. The only place she has independence and a modicum of power in her life.
Tell her she was right and your voice is so injured, you can’t sing at church for at least six months. Then thank her for warning you of the danger and that now you will be on it; taking care of your voice consciously. Her head might explode!
You're in a church, so hit her some classic church sass "God says don't covet thy neighbor, so can you stop being jealous of my voice and let me sing?" " Please stop being envious of my voice, " NTJ. Don't let anyone tell you to stop what you love
She said her parents won't let her quit and have seen first hand she is being berated. Personally, I'd be petty and start singing bad just at church....maybe she will just "fire" you. Or do weird changes to a song...at church while you're all singing...that'd be awesome. She is a bully and I'm sorry you have to be exposed to that. It's gonna make you hate singing and then what?! You need to sit down maturely with your parents, have a list of things or even just a letter that you read to them. Let them know how you have been feeling. If they are worth a darn as parents they will come up with a reason why you have other plans than singing in the group. If not just start sucking. Once you are old enough and out on your own this "community " will fall away. You can hear their slides but laugh at them that they too are part of the joke. My go to when people make snide retorts is to wink and smile at them. Works every time to make them side step and a little uncomfortable. It's so worth it. It's hard to be a strong woman in your age group with other bullies around not being checked. The reality is they will disappear into their church group while you follow your dreams. This is clearly all she has. Let her have it, wink smile and walk away. Best of luck to you. You'll laugh about it later if you just give a wink and walk away.
It never makes anyone look good when an inexperienced mean girl is put in charge of others. She clearly is not capable of being in a supervisor or instructional/decision-making position. I saw this happen on a volleyball team. There is a position called a “setter.” Their job is to hit the ball high, low, medium, or into a specific position for a designated person to then be ready for it and get it over the net. Once the position of the ball is called out, the person ready to receive the ball is expecting the setter to get the ball into that specific area/height. The setter has a lot of power to make other players look bad by intentionally putting the ball into the wrong position where the other player isn’t expecting it. They can also play favorites with other players doing the opposite for them. The crazy thing is, it isn’t just a few players looking incompetent and unprepared, it makes the whole team look bad just because an individual in a position of power is being a vindictive jealous asshole. Don’t let this jealous, inexperienced, power-hungry teenager take your joy of singing from you. Do not take instruction from her that will be harmful to you. If she assigns songs to you that are not in your voice range trying to get you to sound awful, don’t participate. Refuse to sing those pieces. Who knows, maybe others are just as sick of her as you are and just don’t have the courage to stand up for themselves and go against her and her sister. Maybe once they see you doing it, they will also speak up and maybe she will be demoted!
Ugh I wish I had advice for this, but since you're being forced into it, I don't know that I have anything helpful. Best case scenario is probably just sit back and let her make a fool of herself. This behaviour doesn't stop with adulthood unfortunately. I was in a church band for years, and one of the lead vocalists was like this. She HATED when I was given the lead on songs, and when she was in charge of the worship team when our usual leader was away, she would try to sabotage me whenever she could. I just grit my teeth and "killed her with kindness," and in the end she ended up looking like a massive asshole.
Start singing badly. It will work, trust me.
Go to the pastor. Also learn to accept criticism & not be offended by it or you won’t get far
Sing Death Metal problem solved
Just tell her, “Thank you for your input, but I’m going to keep singing soprano.” Then listen to her dumb lecture and say, “Again, I appreciate your concern, but I’m gonna sing soprano”. Just stand your ground and be respectful about it. If she says something like, “well I’m not gonna let you sing then, just tell her something like, “You’ll have to talk to my parents about that. Until then, I’ll stay here and sing.” Good luck ETA: I had issues with 2 girls in high school and my mom told me to always take the high road because the people around you will always be on your side because of it. She was right
You are your own boss, she can not tell you how to sing
Hit her with a quick bless your heart and peace out.
NTJ. If she was actually ruling you out then she deserved what just came to her face. Her competence wasn't really necessary at the moment and you were just in time for her dismissal.
Honey, you can say that you’ll sing a soprano part or nothing and let that be the end of it. It’s a church choir. You don’t have to be in it. You think you must, but you do not.
“just stop participating. Trust me, if I COULD, I WOULD.“ Easy out… just stop singing so great, what are they gonna do?
Why the f is a 16yo in charge of the church choir? Isn’t there an actual church official who is supposed to be the choir director? Is the choir only made up of kids? If your parents refuse to allow you to drop church choir, just show up & pretend to sing. If there are adults in the choir. Why not ask them why they are allowing a 16yo girl dictate what the choir sings & who gets to sing the solos, especially since she’s had no formal training? After all, you have school choir and your acting to show off your singing talent.
I think I have some advice for you since I was was an older sibling who has a younger sibling that acted like she was the older one. So much so that her friends were surprised that I was older because of the way my sister talked about me. That is probably a toxic home life that they are coming from. I’m also AuDHD, so I understand where you are coming from as far as trying to describe who you are for context, not recognition. You are 15 and a lot of adults forget what it was like to be 15 and still under the power of your parents. I remember what it was like. It would not be a good idea to confront F. F is not ready to hear any kind of constructive criticism as this point in her life and will just become actively hostile if you do. She likely feels very powerless at home and having control over this aspect of her life (and other people) is probably one of her biggest coping mechanisms. So again, a confrontation is only likely to make her feel personally attacked, which might lead her to take revenge. Unless your parents really have your back, you aren’t going to win this fight. This happens sometimes in adult life too, so take it as a life lesson and start grey rocking F. That’s the only way through without it becoming a huge kerfuffle.
Is she officially in charge or self appointed?
NTJ. Stand up for yourself and tell that girl with the selfish, manipulative and bad opinions that she's not the Boss of you.
NTJ but the judgemental people are right, kids love witchcraft and so do adults. Witchcraft slaps
Nope
Do you ladies ever listen to the sermon?
You will be old enough in a few years you can leave that little church with the small minded people behind you. One day you won't have to go to church anymore and it may be the best feeling ever knowing that they can't make you do anything ever again
Talk to your folks and tell them you dont want to take part in their (haughty homeschooler) power trip anymore. You may have to be willing to take your parents' punishments if they dont let you quit. If forced to keep singing, do so as badly as possible. Be utterly off key at random times. See if you can get Homeslice to cut you from the group. Failing that...Burp during her or her sister's solos. Loud as you can. Full prank war. If they want to call you a toddler, give them toddler.
Say no. You always have a choice.
ULPT: You want to fix this with the tools you got? Sing everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, out of tune. Like tone deaf out of pitch. Start slow, just a little off key, then after a week or two go low and awful. If and when you get called out, play doe-eyed innocent, “….But you told me to sing the low part so I’m doing the harmony!” Enjoy your petty revenge making everyone cringe. Bet they find you another activity before you know it. NTJ.
This is the best suggestion I've read so far. I know it's hard for someone who sings in tune to deliberately sing off-key, as I just finished a show yesterday in which I had to do just that. But it's easier for a high soprano to veer off than it is for a baritone like me, since there's less room for error. If you can't do this, just refuse to sing. "I cannot and will not be pushed around by a 16-year-old with no professional credentials. Get someone who acts like an adult and is willing to take the position, or I will be unable to sing in this choir."
-EXTRA DEXTRAdeeeextra EDIT- You need to find a new venue. Maybe try the school chorus, or local glee club. It's wonderful that you love to sing. It's wonderful that you enjoy your own voice. Going around saying how high you can sing is not going to do you any favors. Even just in passing on Reddit. If you want to go places with your voice, you need to either save up allowance or get a part-time job when you're old enough, and get formal vocal training. After you've achieved that for a year or two, then you can get better options for finding a good music vocational career for your voice. Whining about some girl at church or even participating when you hate it is pretty counterproductive. Also, please, please be gentle with your pipes. The high first soprano notes are incredibly risky when you are switching from chest to head voice. Those wispy thin chords are incredibly fragile. Injury is a real risk. Always remember to warm up and do scales for at least 20 minutes before jumping from chest to head voice at full volume.
You’re ranting at a 15 year old for acting like a 15 year old.
Not ranting, being honest and giving honest advice. When you're 15, sometimes, asspats don't help anymore. Solid advice on how to better yourself is a more reliable source of insight. I totally get it if she needs to vent. Everybody needs to vent when they deal with insufferable jerks. But this is not the sub for that.
OP wasn't tooting their own horn, and they were not being a jerk. I have no idea why you have had such a negative reaction to this post. Calling OP an egotistical brat is inaccurate, and just plain mean.
Yeah I edited that out. Just kind of having flashbacks of girls like her that bullied me and my friends when we were that age, because they themselves were bullied by people like the nasty church girl. My point is still valid. Egos destroy careers. If she's got a natural first soprano voice, that's excellent, it shouldn't be wasted. She also should definitely not risk damaging it, since the vocal cords that control the highest notes in the human vocal range are incredibly fragile. Getting some vocal training from a professional would really benefit her. Some vocal trainers even are good gateways to get into competitions and professional choirs that are far more selective about their members, especially ones that utilize members for what their voice is best for. Not by dumb seniority hierarchy.
Except that the one behaving that way was the girl who was bullying OP. You say you don't like bullies, but you went after the victim of a bully as if they were the problem. You also went after a 15 year old in a pretty nasty way because you were taking out your own frustrations about stuff that happened in your childhood. For someone who says they don't like bullies, you are doing a remarkable job of acting like one.
You aren't listening/reading. You're inserting a lot of narrative. What I'm saying is very helpful to anyone who wants to go into the singing vocation.
You are the one who inserted a lot in OP's narrative. There was no bragging. There was no bullying from OP. You just made that up. I am reading. I do understand. I simply disagree with your behavior toward the OP. You are trying to make it seem as if you were helping, but you called OP names and were really mean. Trying to edit yourself after the fact doesn't change that.
You're not listening. Yes she bragged a lot about her voice to us. An attitude issue not behavioral. Now I've totally changed my comment since apparently saying anything even slightly negative is just too much for anybody, nowadays.
Actually you know what...I find you incredibly insufferable and I can't deal with someone who's not going to listen. Bye.
Found F.
That's not really how that joke works. I'm not saying that her prissy church buddy is in the right. She's obviously not. And she's a bully to boot.
That’s literally how this joke works…
They’re not tooting their own horn. They’re saying someone in the ‘team’ isn’t being a team player basically. In a ‘team’ you need to be understanding and helpful, not just say no don’t do that you can’t. Op is asking would it be wrong to tell her what they want. You’re semi sounding like that girl.
It's not really a team thing. If it's a church group, and even in casual choirs, there's usually a pecking order. It's the ugly truth. The director will usually favor the more senior members. A lot of choral groups are pretty vicious, actually. The vocal scene can get incredibly toxic.
Wow. You sound like your parents spoiled YOU.
That would've been nice. But, I kinda had to make my own way. I actually have a lot of experience with the vocal scene. Dealt with a lot of people like OP and her evil homeschool church enemy. It's just not a healthy view. You gotta try to better yourself, but looking down on others won't help. She's still being bad by humble bragging in a thinly veiled attempt to vent under the guise of asking if she's a jerk or not. I'm mostly trying to get her to be honest with herself. Self reflection is the best step for improvement and success.