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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The fact that I did not give up my seat for someone requiring wheel chair assistance should be judged. Not giving up my seat to someone who required wheelchair assistance might make me an asshole.
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NTA. To me your medical and ability status is completely irrelevant. You paid for that specific seat so they absolutely should be asking rather than telling.
Wheelchairs don't make people incapable of preplanning. That individual could have also booked a specific seat if they'd planned well enough in advance, I'm sure.
The comical thing is that they may have planned and done everything correctly. My husband is in wheelchair. The amount of time they scramble after we purchased specific tickets, called the airport, airline, and disability services line, is maddening. We have had them try to separate us when we paid for seat selection to ensure that we were together. I am not just his wife, I'm also a health care worker who has gone through specific additional training for him and am aware of all of his medical needs and devices. I still have to argue, and they still don't have the plan I put in place to prevent us from disrupting other travelers that I paid additional to have. They have somehow overbooked our seats or didn't think all the disabled people would show up.
Yeah basically every flight slightly overbooks tickets. Flying is crazy expensive so they need to fill every seat, and almost invariably someone will cancel, so they overbook flights so that they end up with a full plane ... except sometimes no one cancels.
Honestly, while I understand the reasoning for overbooking it still just puts the burden unfairly on the passengers. If they have to do this then the passengers should be compensated for any inconveniences, and a disabled passenger who paid extra to book specific seats certainly shouldn't be the one bearing the brunt of this.
The “hilarious “ thing is, their cancellation policies have gotten even more draconian. So they are over booking, and getting cancellation fees/full fair a lot of times.
Flying isn't crazy expensive, it's the cheapest form of transport there is due to no taxes or anything on plane fuel and the amount of passengers out move. Airlines are just incredibly greedy. Please stop falling for propaganda.
Pretty sure they meant the cost to fly the plane isn't crazy expensive compared to other modes of transport.
ETA: which is literally what they said but you're still confused about this why?
Not necessarily…I just drove from Atlanta to Florida. It cost 1 tank of gas plus about $20 in tolls altogether $160 round trip. The same trip for plane tickets would have cost my family of 5 $1800. Definitely not cheaper.
I feel like this is just an American thing.
I've never been on an "overbooked" European flight, nor have I ever had a friend or extended family member who was. I have been on flights with empty seats. Sometimes rows.
And at that point, if european airlines can still make profit - you have to ask are the American ones doing it because they *need* to, to cover costs - or are they doing it to get paid twice for the same seat with minimal extra effort on their part.
I'm Australian, so not an American thing.
I think most of the time when there's a double bookong they can just move someone to another seat and it's not really a big deal.
Most airlines in the USA will book every seat and then deliberately book a few seats twice. This means that even though people pay to pick their specific seat, there is not guarantee that they will get what they paid for.
It's also ridiculous that the customer can pay extra for that seat with a couple clicks, but getting reimbursed for that seat can require an hour or longer of sitting on the phone with customer service if you're bumped from that seat. The airline hopes the customer will give up so they can keep the money, and the customer is not paid for the wasted time.
I’ve been in an EasyJet flight that was overbooked enough that they left some of the luggage behind.
Trouble was, they only told people once we were in the air. Some people on the flight had needed their luggage that day. This was not optimal.
I am overweight to the point that I require two airplane seats. And I book Southwest almost exclusively, because they let me board early and select my own seats. In the past, I have paid for two seats on airlines like United or American, reserved specific seats (before you were required to pay to do so) and had my seats moved so that they were in two different rows.
My spouse and kid flew recently. We paid *extra* for them to fly together as the kid is young. Last minute they moved seats and had him in the front of coach and the kid in back.
We had to pay extra *again* to ensure those seats and they refuse to refund one of the seat reservation fees. It’s ridiculous.
They split me and my four year old with additional needs on our last flight. I went to the agent at the gate and explained - it wasn’t our fault, our previous flight with seats paid for together had been cancelled literally a few hours before take off and we’d been rebooked onto this one. She shrugged at me and said it was a full flight. No offer of help whatsoever. Thankfully the gentleman in the seat beside my son was willing to swap because I honestly have no idea what I would’ve done otherwise.
I've had the opposite happen to me. My friend and I got separated to put a wife, husband and 10-ish year old child. My friend is very anxious about flying so she paid to select our seats and keep us together. Still got bumped.
Separating your young son is definitely worse than what happened to us but it really goes to show that they apparently just make the rules up as they go
Back when I could still fit in one seat, I flew a flight that was heavily overbooked because of weather related cancellations, and had a window seat. Late in the boarding process, a child of about 4 or 5yo was placed in the middle seat between me and the gentleman who had the aisle seat. It was a long and late flight, and after a while she fell asleep with her head on my leg, cuddle up but with her feet against the man's leg. (I've spent a lot of time working with young kids in camps and such, so I didn't really mind.) At some point I looked over and said to the man, something about how his daughter wasn't bothering me, in case it was a concern. That's what I found out that he thought she was my daughter. Instead she had been split up from her parents.
Here in Canada with west jet I have to get a form filled by my dr stating due to my weight I require 2 seats. I get a permit # and it is good for a year. When booking flights I input the code and I automatically get assigned 2 seats
On 1 flight they had a flight attendant that need to get to the city I was flying to (they were working on a flight out of my destination city). He sat in my second seat. I didn’t say anything because it’s embarrassing and I’m not into confrontations. One of the flight attendants saw him and said no you are in the wrong seat. And they moved him.
Well, that certainly presents an interesting picture, half of you at the front of the plane, half of you at the rear. You would think they would automatically check the names, so as not to split up family members, or in your case, well, YOU.
Yes, this happens all the time.
And then they break whatever mobility devices you gate-checked regardless of how you fold and secure them and label them as fragile.
Airlines suck astronomically at dealing with disabled passengers. The last time I flew, I was sitting near the gate agents while I was waiting to board. A disabled passenger was checking his wheelchair at the gate and the gate agents had to examine the chair and enter any pre-existing damage into the computer. The man said it was relatively new, and the agents couldn’t see any obvious damage, but the computer software wouldn’t allow them to check the wheelchair in without saying it has pre-existing damage. “None” was not an option, they had to put in specific details. They ended up saying there was a scratch on one of the wheels.
It all just felt like the airline trying to get out of having to pay for wheelchairs they damage by saying they were damaged already.
Odds are actually pretty high the wheelchair user **did** preplan and the airline double sold the seat, counting on being able to guilt-reassign the non-disabled passenger into moving seats. Or cabin staff has told the gate agents to move the wheelchair passengers to certain rows regardless of seat sales and they’re just going to get it done no matter what anyone says or what they paid for. Both of those things happen a lot.
To make it all super fun, some airlines automatically void your (paid) seat selection if you’re in a chair to “simplify” the process of onboarding and offloading.
Most wheelchair users are pretty conscientious about making sure we are fully compliant because flying is such a logistical nightmare and most airlines are pretty awful to deal with. It’s honestly not a great time and having other passengers inconvenienced, imposed on and resentful because the gate agents and cabin staff change all the plans we make to make things easier doesn’t help.
You say we, so can I guess you are a wheelchair user? If so, can I ask for some advice?
I'll be flying late summer/early fall, (still don't have confirmed dates from the family yet) with my fiance to meet with the family.
I'm going to be pretty fresh to a wheelchair by then. I'm disabled. I'm still ambulatory, but I have a degenerative condition, and will be using the chair on an as needed basis. I know that airports are a situation where I will need the chair, between waiting in line and navigating the airport. (A trip to the grocery store will have me unable to walk well for the following 36 hours).
What do I do as a wheelchair user on my end to simplify the process? Other than nothing wheelchair user on the booking, selecting the proper seating if it is offered. Are there people I should talk to, or things I should do/look for?
Tell the airline you need assistance when you check in. You can get someone to push your chair, get you to the head of the line when going through security, and make sure you get to the correct gate. In many cases they will help you to the airplane as well.
Any travel companions can tag along.
My late husband wasn't in a wheelchair, but could not walk the distances common in airports. The assistance offered was a Godsend. It's free, but I always tipped the person who made the experience so much better.
My fiance will be with me as well, I figure he'd be pushing me around. But it's good to know this service is offered and he can tag along! Thank you for that information!
Hi, passenger assistant here, doing this work on the airport. If possible, do book assistance. With assistance you’re guaranteed priority lanes and early boarding, which can save many headaches. It also allows you and travel companions some short cuts which makes travel a little less stressful.
Thank you for that info. I didn't want to take someone away with my fiance with me, but if it's that much better! Do I need to call the airport ahead of time and like, make a reservation?
When you book your flight, check if there is a button that says ‘assistance’ somewhere. That will let the airline know that you need assistance. I don’t know if they will let the airport know though. Best is to Google something like ‘wheelchair assistance’ with the airport your flying from. It also depends on airport, state and country. For example where I work, there’s a separate company contracted by the airport to do this work. Do let them know the moment you’ve booked and know your flight. That way they can plan you in nicely.
I mostly agree with the user below but would say to book assistance when you book your ticket. Sometimes there are online instructions when you check the wheelchair box, others you will need to call. Do not rely on asking at the airport, there may not be someone free.
You will be asked to specify what assistance you need. It sounds like you need wheelchair assistance to the gate but can board the plane independently? I.e can you stand at the gate and walk to your seat. If you cannot climb stairs, make sure to mention this.
You should be told if you have to arrive earlier than usual (I highly recommend doing this anyway) and given a meeting point or told to notify checkin you have booked assistance.
If you won't need the chair at your destination (or can get one there), you can ask to book a wheelchair loaner from the airport. This way you don't have to worry about your own chair being damaged.
Airlines may differ so check but my general advice on plane chair storage if you take your own;
Check that all bolts etc are tight before going to the airport. Pack a small toolkit and know how to fix minor repairs. Cloth wrap any bits of your chair you don't want scratched.
If you are checking it with luggage, remove anything detachable by hand like footrests and sideguards, put them in a sturdy bag and have them checked with your chair, including with their own label. Most airlines don't charge for this up to two items. Take your cushion with you on the plane.
If you are taking your own chair to the gate, remove detachable parts, place in bag and ask for the crew to store it in the cabin. The main frame of the chair goes in the hold and they'll bring it back at the other end. Take your cushion with you on the plane.
At the other end immediately check your chair for damage. Someone will meet you to take you through the airport. I don't know how it works for ambulatory users, permanent users are first on the plane and last off so leave plenty of time at the other end.
Tell them when you check in, and tell them again at the gate. IME, folks are really helpful but they are also pretty uncomfortable especially if it involves touching you and you have to be able to explain exactly what you need and how will be easiest to get that done.
Be really clear about whether you will need the aisle chair to get to your seat and how much help from airline staff you will need getting from your chair to the aisle chair and the aisle chair to your seat and back. “I don’t need help transferring to and from the seats but I cannot walk down the jetway or the aisle of the plane. Please make sure destination airport is aware I will need an aisle chair to disembark.”
Label every single piece of your chair - if it’s a folding chair that you can pop the wheels, arms, cushion and seatback off, and you don’t need to use the aisle chair to get to your seat, you should be able to keep the chair (in its component parts) in the cabin (this is safest and your chair is least likely to get damaged this way) and will help when you deplane because you can get to the front of the plane, reassemble the chair and enter the airport.
If your chair goes in the undercarriage with the luggage, keep your cushion with you in the cabin. If you use a slideboard, keep that with you. Be prepared for some air loss in your tires. (Bring a bike pump and maybe some slime and a patch kit).
Don’t leave the jetway until you have all the pieces of your chair or an airline representative escorting you to wherever the chair allegedly is.
My best flying experiences have all been with southwest - the cabin and airport staff are very helpful, chill and proactive - also they’ve never lost any of my chair stuff or given me anyone else’s.
Having read some stories, I'd make sure the chair has your name and details all over it-I've read about personal chairs being handed out to other disabled people.
Could be the wheelchair user missed their connecting flight or something and the airline was trying to fix the situation. I've had to run from one end of an airport to another due to delays with my first flight. The airline ought to have held the flight if that was the case, but they might not have.
Airline still should have asked OP and offered compensation.
Yeah, I was offering an alternate explanation where the wheelchair user wasn't at fault. I had an experience traveling with my >80 yr old grandmother where they didn't hold the connecting flight for us or provide any assistance. I basically ran ahead and explained the situation. So I could absolutely see an airline fucking up with a wheelchair user, despite the wheelchair user's best attempts to get smoothly to their destination.
It’s not even the passenger’s job to plan ahead for wheelchair accommodations — in most countries, the airline is legally responsible for accommodating people with physical disabilities. It’s never a good idea to assume they will do so with any degree of competence, but they are obligated nevertheless. The gate agents handled this badly, and that is neither OP’s fault nor the fault of the passenger in the wheelchair. The only asshole here is the airline.
The airlines have caused this problem by charging for seats. If they want to change your seat that you paid extra for they should 1) be required to ask 2) be required to give you a seat in the same price point or an instant refund. People who have chosen to take the free seats or limited leg room seats should not be given consideration in moving around the plain. We are a large family and have always paid for seats and it sucks! I consider that the cost of sitting together and don’t think other people should be moved around for us because we didn’t want to spend the extra money.
NTA even without your own disability.
If the airline wants to have the seat available as a convenience/courtesy for passengers in wheelchairs, they can certainly keep it available as such - but that means no upcharging other customers for it.
It's the airline's responsibility to accommodate, not passengers', and while obviously we want to be kind, paying extra and being pressured to give it up out of respect for someone with a disability is pure corporate greed. I am firmly against this whole practice.
Also you have your own disability, so there's that too.
It's absolutely baffling to me that an airline, responsible to accommodate their passengers accordingly, tries to put their responsibility on another random passenger
To compete with other airlines, they want to keep tickets as cheap as possible. This has gotten to absurd low prices, which in turn has led to tiny chairs with no leg space, no food, paying extra for bagage, reservation, seat selection and you name it, and still they overbook to make even more money. They make you pay to sit together, but in the end that is no guarantee you get what you paid for. It's a disgrace and there should be done something about it.
It probably depends on in which country you live. In my country you can chose between first class (hardly anyone can pay that) or economy (with or without upgrade), but it still means overbooking, tiny seats, no guarantee that the booked chair is yours, etc. There is not one company here with full service in economy or comfort (the upgrade), not any plane with normal leg or hip / shoulder space. We never take a so-called 'price fighter' and always chose the more expensive option, but still we have to deal with these issues.
NTA - Many factors here are not fully clear, but it's really the airlines problem and not yours to accommodate other passengers.
As for seat... If you paid for A seat in economy, then you can be moved even if you picked a specific one because that's treated more like a preference. Nothing wrong with asking for a comparable seat! "Hey, no problem as long as I can have the same (example) aisle seat I chose as I need that." You picked it, planned your trip and that's part of the situation you planned for (carryons and access to such). If you have a condition, then that's 100% a factor as well. If you paid for an upgraded seat, such as with more legroom, then you generally get to keep that seat and can insist on a comparable seat. There are regulations around the money an airline has to pay you for not providing a seat you paid for, but when it boils down to it a stewardess can relocate you without your consent. She'll just have to answer to the airline later about it, especially if she forced you into a lower value seat because now the airline is in breach of contract for what you were sold.
I had similar happen where I had paid for an upgraded seat with more leg room. I get some anxiety when in a middle or window seat, so I always go out of my way to ensure I have an aisle seat. Along comes stewardess asking to relocate me to a middle seat so a family could sit together. I said "no thank you. I paid extra for this seat to be in an aisle seat for my condition. If you have another aisle seat, then I would consider it" except none were available. They tried to bully me into it and ask about my condition with a snarky tone. I held my ground, told them I am not discussing my medical conditions with them, and asked if they were refusing to provide the exact seat I paid the airline extra for? They gave up and found another solution. I've relocated several times to help other passengers, but I'm not giving up my paid value because another passenger or the airline failed to plan appropriately.
Then they have to provide with you a seat of equal or better monetary value. Even if they do, you could likely get money back unless they put you in first class. If not, you could get multiples of money back for breach of the contract. I think you handled it well
In your particular case I wouldn't even have mentioned any medical condition, if they cant move you to another aisle seat then its on the family for not picking their seats together.
Airlines oversell, double-book, make seats smaller, charge for everything, and constantly delay flights and lose luggage. Their entire focus is profits at the expense of any customer comfort (and sometimes safety). They accept government subsidies, bailouts etc and breach the conditions without penalty. This is one hundred percent on them and not at all on you. NTA
I experienced a bit more that day sadly. Once I boarded someone else(not the person needing assistance) was in my seat, had to ask them to move. Went to change flights and was delayed for 5 hours due to the plane being unrepairable and lost my upgraded seat(so did some in 1st class) Luckily I got a comparable seat on that flight
I’m frustrated just reading this! And this has been commonplace - it’s actually odd to have a flight run smoothly and it takes so long to request refunds/corrections (by design) so most just give up while regulators watch and don’t correct. Lol I’ll stop venting now.
But seriously the airline staff painting this as your failure to accommodate is laughable - both you and the other person paid for specific things and it is the airline that has to resolve the issue. Hope your next air travel experience is more tolerable!
Yeah I am happy to be home now, took the day off just so me and my wife can lay in bed and catch up on some tvs shows and intimacy. Crazy thing about that scenario is that the chose my seat(2A) when there were 5 others that were similar. The guy ended up in 1A. The whole time I was thinking WTF didn't they start with 1A to begin with? I just think it was a lazy worker who didn't want to maneuver through the plane. My last flight had 3 different people needing wheelchair assistance and were seated just fine.
Commenting here so you'll see it:
From now on, call ahead to add special assistance to your bookings for your mobility/inflammation issues. Its not enough to get you a free seat under most airline policies (though tossing in "disabled vet" might help) but it should be enough to *mostly* prevent them from trying to move you to a non-comparable seat. People who need aisle chair assistance need an aisle seat with a liftable arm rest, so options are limited, but they're going to move an able-bodied passenger before they're going to move a disabled veteran with a special assistance reservation
NTA. The airline doesn't just get to reassign your seat without your permission. And how tf do they know you didn't need that seat to deal with a disability of your own? That's right, they didn't.
Being a flight attendant right now has to be one of the toughest jobs, but they STILL need to give good customer service. Airlines treat people like garbage! NTA for sticking up for yourself. You have medical needs, too.
NTA
>Agent 1 said, with an attitude "its just a respect thing for someone with a disability"
I would have replied with "it's just a respect thing to ask someone to switch seats not tell them they are" then also point out I too am disabled and the reasons why I purchased that specific seat.
I would’ve been petty and explained in detail how I got became disabled. It’d make them feel (or at least look like) jerks being rude to a military vet who got an injury serving their country.
NTA I would be shocked if your disability act puts the responsibility on clients rather than merchants. If it does, it needs to be dismantled. This isn’t offering up your seat on a bus and shouldn’t be handled that way.
NTA, you paid. They didn't ask but demanded and you were in your right to say no. Also, you don't have to disclose your medical but if it ever happens again, I would mention just to be petty
NTA. I am a cancer patient and I do require wheelchair assistance but I'd never ask someone to give up the seat that they PAID for nor would I allow a gate agent to either as I am a passenger like anyone else and I will plan ahead and book the seat I require.
So don't feel bad, OP. You had every right to keep your seat reservation.
NTA. 1) You needed that seat. 2) You paid for that seat. 3) The disabled person could have paid for the better seat if he wanted it. Though I’m not blaming him. Sounds like the flight attendants took matters into their own hands. 4) They just decided that you would give up your seat.
This is yet another example of the airline industry shitting all over their passengers. Idk how it got to be where this kind of behavior is allowed.
NTA report the staff to the airline for unprofessional behaviour, they should have asked if you were willing, offer a full refund and another suitable seat for the inconvenience since it's the wheelchair passengers fault for not buying the correct seat not yours
>since it's the wheelchair passengers fault for not buying the correct seat not yours
Nope. People who require aisle chair assistance do not have to pay for their aisle seat. Assistance has to be requested ahead of time, and the person who puts the info in the reservation is supposed to reserve an aisle for them.
Either this was a last minute booking where all the remaining aisle seats had already been opened for purchase (they keep some blocked off *specifically* for customers with disabilities) or someone at the airline fucked up.
NTA- To be honest you shouldn’t care who needed that seat. You paid for your spot you deserve it. You are not in the wrong for doing what you did. I don’t see why you’d have to forcefully be switched for someone else. Everybody could say that you are the asshole until they are in that situation themselves.
I will directly say that I wouldn’t give my seat up for something like that.
Wheelchair user here with multiple disabilities and even without your disabilities, I would still say NTA. Seems like they were able to figure it out without you giving up your seat, so they're super in the wrong.
nta and you earned that right and i consider you equal to having that seat
also i have had members of my family who also look normal but need the same seat as welll
NTA. And as one person with a non-visible disability to another, if someone tries to pull the
>Agent 1 said, with an attitude "its just a respect thing for someone with a disability
thing again, feel free to say "Thank you for saying that! As I'm sure you're aware, not every disability is visible and not everyone with a mobility impairment uses a wheelchair. I paid the extra money for that seat to accommodate my disability. So glad we're on the same page!"
NTa.
But I would have replied that respect is asking someone if they can help, not telling them the seat they paid for is gone. Respect is asking because maybe that person is also disabled and not in a wheelchair and simple intelligence would tell you that not everyone who is disabled needs a wheel chair or shows it externally at one glance from a judgemental position.
Not a vet, but also got fucked knees, waiting on replacements (age thing more than not available/affordable right now) and yeah, chronic pain, swollen joints, need for space because keeping them in one position for long makes them worse. People assuming I'm not disabled at all because I can walk is frustrating. Also nothing like the periods I did use a wheelchair but can get out of it for short periods or move my legs. People thinking that in public they can come up and cal you out because you move your legs while in a wheelchair like they caught you. People suck.
I'm a diabled vet too. I still wouldn't give up my seat even if i wasn't disabled. The airline should have better disability assistance. When i was abroad, some old ass tourists tried to tell me and my friend to move from the front row cause his wife gets car sick. We were the last people on the bus. It's not our fault you didn't choose sit somewhere that would help your wife.
NTA. Doesn’t matter if you have a disability or not either. You payed for that seat so it is yours for the flight. They had no right to try and shame you into giving it up. The other passenger may need wheelchair assistance but does that stop them planning ahead and booking the seat themselves? No it doesn’t. They can’t expect other people to just sacrifice their payed for seats at the last moment.
There is very rarely a situation where a passenger has pre-selected a seat, the airline changes it, and the passenger demands to keep that seat where the passenger is TA. The fact that you paid to select that seat just makes it infuriating.
When we fly, unless we are fortunate enough to be in 1st class, we are paying to be in a seat that doesn’t fit most humans comfortably. The airline is already screwing you by charging you for less space than you’d need. When you decide to pony up hard earned money for a seat that isn’t wider, but has less inches of additional leg room than the length of the phone most of us are reading this in, it’s okay to demand satisfaction from those greedy sobs.
Just do so in a manner that is calm, respectful, and most importantly not an AH. Remember, the person that is angry and yelling is the crazy one. If you’re polite, kind, but definitive in what you expect to be fair, it’s much easier for them to help you.
OP, you are NTA in any way what-so-ever. Good job standing up for yourself.
No. You paid extra for that specific seat. The attendants should have offered to upgrade you.
Just because you're in a wheelchair, it doesn't mean you (or your caregivers) don't have a brain. They should have bought the appropriate seats.
NTA period! I would have told the agents in a very not so nice voice that you are a disabled verteran and how dare they treat you with such disrespect.
I’m sorry you were treated like that,
Airlines luck people out of the seats like they are gods.
NTA. All physical needs are not immediately visible. You did the right thing. Frankly people in wheelchairs can reserve special seats, just like you did.
I once had to fly cross-country to see a special orthopedist when I had 3 fractures in my leg. I was in a wheelchair, ankle-to-hip brace, walker the whole bit. It never occurred to me to ask someone close to the front to give up a seat. Geez.
NTA and I'd file a complaint about those two employees, for the manipulation and disrespect.
(I wouldn't expect it to result in anything 😅. But still.)
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I recently had an early morning return flight where I paid extra money for a seat that was the 2nd from the front and 1 of about 5 different seats that were the only seat in their row.
At boarding the agent called me there, there were 2 of them. The first agent just said that she was going to give my seat to someone else who needed wheelchair assistance. I fly pretty often and see people needing wheelchair assistance all the time and are seated through various parts of the plane. I was immediately shocked because the agent didn't ask IF I would give up my seat but just matter of factly explained that she will be assigning me another seat. I probably would have if they had asked instead of telling me. I asked if I would get a comparable seat and was told no. I then stated that I had paid for that seat, agent 2 then jumped in and said snarkily "you paid for A seat" I corrected him and told him I paid for THAT seat(as picking it out online and paying the appropriate fee) Agent 1 began reciting the 800 number for me to be reimbursed when Agent 2 said never mind and went into the plane I guess to make other arrangements. Agent 1 said, with an attitude "its just a respect thing for someone with a disability "In the end I kept my seat and the person requiring wheelchair assistance was given the seat directly in front of me.
I am a disabled veteran but do not require wheelchair assistance. I bought that seat because of some issues with my knees(both have been scoped and I have to get frequent cortisol shots for pain and swelling). I have been needing a knee replacement since 10 years ago but the orthopedic doc won't do it because I am too young. I also have a heart condition where the medication makes my feet and lower legs swell if they're bent too long. So, AITA for not giving up my seat?
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NTA you paid for that seat ahead of time due to your disability. It’s not right for them to insist you give it up for someone else who clearly didn’t plan ahead
NTA. This is on the airline. You paid for the seat. The person in the wheelchair probably also paid for a seat.
This is on the airline. Airlines are just generally awful to people in wheelchairs. But they also clearly were able to get the person on the flight just fine.
NTA. You paid for a *specific* seat and have physical issues of your own that gave you very legitimate reasons for needing and wanting the seat you paid for.
NTA. Airplane companies make big money in offering this option that you pay a lot of extra money to secure a particular seat. Once they take your money, they should stick to the written arrangement, what it actually is. Disabled people should just make arrangements before they fly. I'm on crutches and I'm flying in 2 months and so we phoned the company what their rules were about crutches and seating and such, to take the necessary precautions. And I hate it that when someone does not have a *visible* disability, it is always automatically assumed that person is totally healthy.
NTA the airline is greedy. This is a corporation issue. The air staff need updated training as well to handle this situation. It seems they didn’t even consider you may have an “invisible” disability. I don’t want to demonize the flight agents but they could have handled the situation better.
NTA - not all disabilities are immediately visible (like yours and some of mine) and someone simply being visibly disabled does not mean all other people’s rights and privileges can be disregarded.
There is absolutely no need for you to justify your decision to give up your seat. It doesn't matter if you have a disability or not. You paid for that seat. You weren't rude. They were rude to you.
It's also a respect thing to at the very least ask the person you're downgrading instead of trying to force it upon you like those two did.
NTA
I’d have taken the names of the staff involved and the flight number and date and sent a strongly worded complaint to the airline
You paid for a specific seat. The other passenger could also have ordered and paid for a specific seat
How dare they try to shame you like that
Your disability and their disability is irrelevant in this situation
But - if you do complain - yeh I’d add weight to the complaint and lay it on extra thick about the fact you’re a disabled veteran.
How you have a hidden disability that you wished to remain private - but instead you were shamed by members of staff
NTA, they should have offered to reimburse you and also asked you because as you said - you have a disability too that they didn't know about.
For next time, you do not gave to disclose your disability or give up your seat but you may want yo just tell them why quietly, it isn't ideal but then they would just move someone else instead, they (the flight company) don't wont want to disrespect a veteran or a disability.
People LOVE to make assumptions based on appearance and are often rude when they don't get their way having assumed all is fine, it is frustrating - I have issues with my legs, can't have a bag on my lap, that upsets people too 🤦🏻♀️ people are weird.
Anyone reading only the subject line would say YTA but nope, NTA!
You paid, you have medical reasons. Needing a wheelchair at the airport doesn't mean your needs supercede everyone else's. The flight attendant didn't take you into consideration at all, likely because you don't fit her image of a person with medical needs. You stood up for your very real needs and rights. Thank you for your service.
NTA. You paid for the seat so you shouldn’t have to give it up at their demand. People would probably be more receptive if they didn’t demand like this anyway. It makes it worse that you’re disabled too and actually need it
NTA OP. I am a person with a disability, and I wouldn’t dream of asking someone to give up their seat for me, and as far as I’m concerned, if I had been you, I’d have told that agent to get bent.
Wow. Just wow.
Reiterating facts:
- You paid extra for and selected particular seat
- Wheelchair assist person *didn’t* bother to do that
- Boarding agent 1 doesn’t ask, but rather *tells* you they’re making the switch
- Switch is for an inferior seat
- BA2 gives you snark
- BA1 decides to manipulate you by shaming you for your refusal
That would be enough for me to say NTA.
Add to that—you’re a disabled vet? AND you’re humble enough to not lord it over people?
My takeaways:
1. Thank you for your service.
2. Call the airline after the fact and complain about the agents—they were inappropriate even before considering your DV status.
3. Maybe you should wear something subtle to tip them off to your Veteran status—like the hats some vets wear. That might be enough to stave off the issue later on.
NTA
You paid extra for a seat, you planned your trip well.
Your medical status or service means nothing in this argument.
A wheelchair might stop them from walking, but not planning.
NTA. The gate agents were trying to cheat you out of the extra fee you paid for that seat. The chances of getting a refund after calling the 800 number was slim to none.
Those gate agents were unethical as hell. If you can’t process a refund then and there then you are a swindler.
I remember myself in a similar situation when i was being guilt tripped by this family and a flight attendant who joined in later when I paid for 2 seats just for myself and that they thought their toddler/baby deserved to just “take” one seat, even though they didn’t think of that when they were booking the tickets!
It was sort of the in-between stage of baby and toddler so they probably thought they didnt need to get a separate seat as the kid was in a gray area
They showed some form/letter from the airline (which im guessing they got through connections within the airline, cause ive never heard of something like this) that read that they would get to use a seat for their kid if one was free, but one wasn’t!
Apparently, even their “higher-up friends” had guaranteed that one seat would be kept free near their seats, but the plane was clearly overbooked cause there were passengers who werent checked through for no reason at all when they passed TSA and i rmbr that had caused a scene
all of them berated me for being an AH but i did not flinch, just be direct and clear about the matter and do not raise your voice as they might see it as a opportunity to get you out, be respectful and clear -if the mom asked me kindly i would definitely have allowed and helped her out, but their entitlement and attitude almost threw me into a fit!
I know some people might attack me for taking 2 seats, but i paid for both seats!
I am a severe germaphobe and its uncontrollable ever since i recovered from malaria
Had complications and it ended up destroying me
NTA even if you didn't have a disability. Even if you didn't pay extra, it's on the airline to accommodate disabled passengers. This is their fuckup they wanted to pass on to you.
NTA and next time throw it in their face "I am a war veteran who has hidden disabilities and I specifically bought that seat for those reasons. Just because they cannot be seen doesn't mean they're not there and I am needing that seat. You are being snarky, rude and unprofessional' and just leave them there gobsmacked cause that is what is going to happen if you do that.
People love to be holy than thou until you remind them of stuff
NTA
The staff were incredibly rude. I'm sure there would be other people who are able bodied and willing to move. As you say, you have a disability as well and there are other seats with other people who could be available and willing.
NTA. First they should be asking you if you can switch seats not telling you. Considering you paid extra they should find a seat that is the same or upgrade you so you don’t loose out on money.
As for your knee have your tried other orthopedic doctors? Sometimes you have to try multiple doctors before you find one that will help
NTA. You did not disclose your medical condition to the agents, but that probably would not have mattered to them at all. You paid your money for a specific seat, you get that seat.
NTA 1) you paid for the seat and the agents 2) were just going to fob you off on the corporation and 3) as you said they were just rude about it. 4) you bought a seat- no i paid for that seat and paid extra so that's an issue.
NTA
Even if you didn't have a disability issue, this isn't like a bus where it's first come first serve, it's an issue where either the other passenger didn't want to pay the extra or the airline messed up and overbooked (which is fairly common). If the agent had been polite then it might have been good of you to agree to it, but given the attitude they had from the start, why would they think you were obligated to help them out?
Someone said I did it out of spite. That wasn't the case. I had been up since 3am to make it to the airport to make my flight, was treated rudely, and have disabilities that make it very difficult and painful to walk. Had the agents approached with a different attitude I would have been more amenable. My guess is that they were fed up with the guy as when they told him he had to check his carryon he put up a fuss.
NTA, you paid for the seat, Seatguru is. Prior to it's popularity it was easier to assign seats, and there wasn't any fees.
Pssengers started picking their seats using Seatguru that I held off assigning, in case I needed them for my "specials". (Specials can be anyone that has a physical or mental disability, unaccompanied minors to a someone with a baby needing a seat with an extra oxygen mask.)
Passengers became more belligerent, and would refuse to move when asked, causing flight delays.
This eventually led to the airline blocking seats. We then ran into the problem of assigning seats at the gate, when they should have been boarding.
Finally, they started charging for seats, which helped to speed up boarding process and brought in revenue, but it has angered passengers.
NTA, you paid for a certain seat and you should get that seat or get your money refunded. The airline failed hardcore on this one. They oversold these seats and are trying to fix it without losing money.
It's not "just a respect thing". Yes, it's reasonable to move you to a worse seat to accommodate the wheelchair user. The airline should compensate you for this. Double the premium you paid to pick your seat is about the right mark.
NTA
NTA - You paid for your seat AND you paid extra for it. IF the person with a disability needs a special seat, they shouud reserve it ahead of time.
This is why they have the option to purchase seats ahead of time.
Their lack of planning should not become a problem for you. Regardless of your disability.
NTA
You did't have to tell us about your medical history for us to know that you aren't the ah.
I feel for people with disabilities but you paid for that specific seat, and from what I understood, you were willing to give up that seat of the agents weren't straight up rude and annoying.
I would've done the same.
NTA. Even if you were not a disabled veteran, you paid for that particular seat. If the airline was willing to give an equivalent seat or even compensate you for the inconvenience, not just refunding the amount, then it would be a different scenario.
NTA hey OP disabled vet here......I found that if you put down your a DV some airlines will upgrade you for free if they have the space other than that your left alone
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NTA. To me your medical and ability status is completely irrelevant. You paid for that specific seat so they absolutely should be asking rather than telling. Wheelchairs don't make people incapable of preplanning. That individual could have also booked a specific seat if they'd planned well enough in advance, I'm sure.
And also, the agent could have just asked. Most people don't enjoy being voluntold.
voluntold... that's a good one, i'm stealing that
It's a staple term in the military. "Today you're going to be doing some volunteer work"
Yeah look what happened to David Dao.... he resented being voluntold that he was giving up his seat!
The comical thing is that they may have planned and done everything correctly. My husband is in wheelchair. The amount of time they scramble after we purchased specific tickets, called the airport, airline, and disability services line, is maddening. We have had them try to separate us when we paid for seat selection to ensure that we were together. I am not just his wife, I'm also a health care worker who has gone through specific additional training for him and am aware of all of his medical needs and devices. I still have to argue, and they still don't have the plan I put in place to prevent us from disrupting other travelers that I paid additional to have. They have somehow overbooked our seats or didn't think all the disabled people would show up.
Yeah basically every flight slightly overbooks tickets. Flying is crazy expensive so they need to fill every seat, and almost invariably someone will cancel, so they overbook flights so that they end up with a full plane ... except sometimes no one cancels. Honestly, while I understand the reasoning for overbooking it still just puts the burden unfairly on the passengers. If they have to do this then the passengers should be compensated for any inconveniences, and a disabled passenger who paid extra to book specific seats certainly shouldn't be the one bearing the brunt of this.
The “hilarious “ thing is, their cancellation policies have gotten even more draconian. So they are over booking, and getting cancellation fees/full fair a lot of times.
Flying isn't crazy expensive, it's the cheapest form of transport there is due to no taxes or anything on plane fuel and the amount of passengers out move. Airlines are just incredibly greedy. Please stop falling for propaganda.
Might not be expensive in monetary terms but in environmental damage terms it’s horrible.
On that subject, I recently found out that e-waste (mobile phones etc) is now year on year more polluting than air-travel!! 😱
>Flying isn't crazy expensive, Maybe not to you, but many, many people would disagree with you.
Pretty sure they meant the cost to fly the plane isn't crazy expensive compared to other modes of transport. ETA: which is literally what they said but you're still confused about this why?
Not necessarily…I just drove from Atlanta to Florida. It cost 1 tank of gas plus about $20 in tolls altogether $160 round trip. The same trip for plane tickets would have cost my family of 5 $1800. Definitely not cheaper.
Really? I go from the USA to Canada often and the train is always cheaper. Where is the "there" you're speaking of? Just curious.
Lol 3 of the 4 responses to you so far apparently cant understand context clues.
I feel like this is just an American thing. I've never been on an "overbooked" European flight, nor have I ever had a friend or extended family member who was. I have been on flights with empty seats. Sometimes rows. And at that point, if european airlines can still make profit - you have to ask are the American ones doing it because they *need* to, to cover costs - or are they doing it to get paid twice for the same seat with minimal extra effort on their part.
I'm Australian, so not an American thing. I think most of the time when there's a double bookong they can just move someone to another seat and it's not really a big deal.
Most airlines in the USA will book every seat and then deliberately book a few seats twice. This means that even though people pay to pick their specific seat, there is not guarantee that they will get what they paid for. It's also ridiculous that the customer can pay extra for that seat with a couple clicks, but getting reimbursed for that seat can require an hour or longer of sitting on the phone with customer service if you're bumped from that seat. The airline hopes the customer will give up so they can keep the money, and the customer is not paid for the wasted time.
Exactly
I’ve been in an EasyJet flight that was overbooked enough that they left some of the luggage behind. Trouble was, they only told people once we were in the air. Some people on the flight had needed their luggage that day. This was not optimal.
Try Wizzair, you would learn a lot new.
I have, NL to UK. Lack of proof isn't proof of lack.
I am overweight to the point that I require two airplane seats. And I book Southwest almost exclusively, because they let me board early and select my own seats. In the past, I have paid for two seats on airlines like United or American, reserved specific seats (before you were required to pay to do so) and had my seats moved so that they were in two different rows.
I’ve always wondered how that worked. If you have to buy two seats, nothing can prevent the airline from separating them?
My spouse and kid flew recently. We paid *extra* for them to fly together as the kid is young. Last minute they moved seats and had him in the front of coach and the kid in back. We had to pay extra *again* to ensure those seats and they refuse to refund one of the seat reservation fees. It’s ridiculous.
Time for a chargeback on your credit card. "Didn't receive the service paid for."
They split me and my four year old with additional needs on our last flight. I went to the agent at the gate and explained - it wasn’t our fault, our previous flight with seats paid for together had been cancelled literally a few hours before take off and we’d been rebooked onto this one. She shrugged at me and said it was a full flight. No offer of help whatsoever. Thankfully the gentleman in the seat beside my son was willing to swap because I honestly have no idea what I would’ve done otherwise.
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I've had the opposite happen to me. My friend and I got separated to put a wife, husband and 10-ish year old child. My friend is very anxious about flying so she paid to select our seats and keep us together. Still got bumped. Separating your young son is definitely worse than what happened to us but it really goes to show that they apparently just make the rules up as they go
It really feels like there's no point to booking a certain seat because they're just going to shove you anywhere-- except in a better spot.
Back when I could still fit in one seat, I flew a flight that was heavily overbooked because of weather related cancellations, and had a window seat. Late in the boarding process, a child of about 4 or 5yo was placed in the middle seat between me and the gentleman who had the aisle seat. It was a long and late flight, and after a while she fell asleep with her head on my leg, cuddle up but with her feet against the man's leg. (I've spent a lot of time working with young kids in camps and such, so I didn't really mind.) At some point I looked over and said to the man, something about how his daughter wasn't bothering me, in case it was a concern. That's what I found out that he thought she was my daughter. Instead she had been split up from her parents.
Actually in countries with proper consumer protection the law will prevent that.
Here in Canada with west jet I have to get a form filled by my dr stating due to my weight I require 2 seats. I get a permit # and it is good for a year. When booking flights I input the code and I automatically get assigned 2 seats On 1 flight they had a flight attendant that need to get to the city I was flying to (they were working on a flight out of my destination city). He sat in my second seat. I didn’t say anything because it’s embarrassing and I’m not into confrontations. One of the flight attendants saw him and said no you are in the wrong seat. And they moved him.
Well, that certainly presents an interesting picture, half of you at the front of the plane, half of you at the rear. You would think they would automatically check the names, so as not to split up family members, or in your case, well, YOU.
Family members don't always share names. Airlines do often seat "tickets booked together in same booking" people together, but not always...
True enough. I like to believe that they try to accommodate their passengers. I also believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.
Yes, this happens all the time. And then they break whatever mobility devices you gate-checked regardless of how you fold and secure them and label them as fragile.
Airlines suck astronomically at dealing with disabled passengers. The last time I flew, I was sitting near the gate agents while I was waiting to board. A disabled passenger was checking his wheelchair at the gate and the gate agents had to examine the chair and enter any pre-existing damage into the computer. The man said it was relatively new, and the agents couldn’t see any obvious damage, but the computer software wouldn’t allow them to check the wheelchair in without saying it has pre-existing damage. “None” was not an option, they had to put in specific details. They ended up saying there was a scratch on one of the wheels. It all just felt like the airline trying to get out of having to pay for wheelchairs they damage by saying they were damaged already.
Odds are actually pretty high the wheelchair user **did** preplan and the airline double sold the seat, counting on being able to guilt-reassign the non-disabled passenger into moving seats. Or cabin staff has told the gate agents to move the wheelchair passengers to certain rows regardless of seat sales and they’re just going to get it done no matter what anyone says or what they paid for. Both of those things happen a lot. To make it all super fun, some airlines automatically void your (paid) seat selection if you’re in a chair to “simplify” the process of onboarding and offloading. Most wheelchair users are pretty conscientious about making sure we are fully compliant because flying is such a logistical nightmare and most airlines are pretty awful to deal with. It’s honestly not a great time and having other passengers inconvenienced, imposed on and resentful because the gate agents and cabin staff change all the plans we make to make things easier doesn’t help.
You say we, so can I guess you are a wheelchair user? If so, can I ask for some advice? I'll be flying late summer/early fall, (still don't have confirmed dates from the family yet) with my fiance to meet with the family. I'm going to be pretty fresh to a wheelchair by then. I'm disabled. I'm still ambulatory, but I have a degenerative condition, and will be using the chair on an as needed basis. I know that airports are a situation where I will need the chair, between waiting in line and navigating the airport. (A trip to the grocery store will have me unable to walk well for the following 36 hours). What do I do as a wheelchair user on my end to simplify the process? Other than nothing wheelchair user on the booking, selecting the proper seating if it is offered. Are there people I should talk to, or things I should do/look for?
Tell the airline you need assistance when you check in. You can get someone to push your chair, get you to the head of the line when going through security, and make sure you get to the correct gate. In many cases they will help you to the airplane as well. Any travel companions can tag along. My late husband wasn't in a wheelchair, but could not walk the distances common in airports. The assistance offered was a Godsend. It's free, but I always tipped the person who made the experience so much better.
My fiance will be with me as well, I figure he'd be pushing me around. But it's good to know this service is offered and he can tag along! Thank you for that information!
Hi, passenger assistant here, doing this work on the airport. If possible, do book assistance. With assistance you’re guaranteed priority lanes and early boarding, which can save many headaches. It also allows you and travel companions some short cuts which makes travel a little less stressful.
Thank you for what you do! Everyone that ever assisted us was so nice, and took such good care of my husband.
Thank you for that info. I didn't want to take someone away with my fiance with me, but if it's that much better! Do I need to call the airport ahead of time and like, make a reservation?
When you book your flight, check if there is a button that says ‘assistance’ somewhere. That will let the airline know that you need assistance. I don’t know if they will let the airport know though. Best is to Google something like ‘wheelchair assistance’ with the airport your flying from. It also depends on airport, state and country. For example where I work, there’s a separate company contracted by the airport to do this work. Do let them know the moment you’ve booked and know your flight. That way they can plan you in nicely.
Thank you!
I mostly agree with the user below but would say to book assistance when you book your ticket. Sometimes there are online instructions when you check the wheelchair box, others you will need to call. Do not rely on asking at the airport, there may not be someone free. You will be asked to specify what assistance you need. It sounds like you need wheelchair assistance to the gate but can board the plane independently? I.e can you stand at the gate and walk to your seat. If you cannot climb stairs, make sure to mention this. You should be told if you have to arrive earlier than usual (I highly recommend doing this anyway) and given a meeting point or told to notify checkin you have booked assistance. If you won't need the chair at your destination (or can get one there), you can ask to book a wheelchair loaner from the airport. This way you don't have to worry about your own chair being damaged. Airlines may differ so check but my general advice on plane chair storage if you take your own; Check that all bolts etc are tight before going to the airport. Pack a small toolkit and know how to fix minor repairs. Cloth wrap any bits of your chair you don't want scratched. If you are checking it with luggage, remove anything detachable by hand like footrests and sideguards, put them in a sturdy bag and have them checked with your chair, including with their own label. Most airlines don't charge for this up to two items. Take your cushion with you on the plane. If you are taking your own chair to the gate, remove detachable parts, place in bag and ask for the crew to store it in the cabin. The main frame of the chair goes in the hold and they'll bring it back at the other end. Take your cushion with you on the plane. At the other end immediately check your chair for damage. Someone will meet you to take you through the airport. I don't know how it works for ambulatory users, permanent users are first on the plane and last off so leave plenty of time at the other end.
Thanks for the info!
Tell them when you check in, and tell them again at the gate. IME, folks are really helpful but they are also pretty uncomfortable especially if it involves touching you and you have to be able to explain exactly what you need and how will be easiest to get that done. Be really clear about whether you will need the aisle chair to get to your seat and how much help from airline staff you will need getting from your chair to the aisle chair and the aisle chair to your seat and back. “I don’t need help transferring to and from the seats but I cannot walk down the jetway or the aisle of the plane. Please make sure destination airport is aware I will need an aisle chair to disembark.” Label every single piece of your chair - if it’s a folding chair that you can pop the wheels, arms, cushion and seatback off, and you don’t need to use the aisle chair to get to your seat, you should be able to keep the chair (in its component parts) in the cabin (this is safest and your chair is least likely to get damaged this way) and will help when you deplane because you can get to the front of the plane, reassemble the chair and enter the airport. If your chair goes in the undercarriage with the luggage, keep your cushion with you in the cabin. If you use a slideboard, keep that with you. Be prepared for some air loss in your tires. (Bring a bike pump and maybe some slime and a patch kit). Don’t leave the jetway until you have all the pieces of your chair or an airline representative escorting you to wherever the chair allegedly is. My best flying experiences have all been with southwest - the cabin and airport staff are very helpful, chill and proactive - also they’ve never lost any of my chair stuff or given me anyone else’s.
Thank you!
Having read some stories, I'd make sure the chair has your name and details all over it-I've read about personal chairs being handed out to other disabled people.
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Could be the wheelchair user missed their connecting flight or something and the airline was trying to fix the situation. I've had to run from one end of an airport to another due to delays with my first flight. The airline ought to have held the flight if that was the case, but they might not have. Airline still should have asked OP and offered compensation.
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Yeah, I was offering an alternate explanation where the wheelchair user wasn't at fault. I had an experience traveling with my >80 yr old grandmother where they didn't hold the connecting flight for us or provide any assistance. I basically ran ahead and explained the situation. So I could absolutely see an airline fucking up with a wheelchair user, despite the wheelchair user's best attempts to get smoothly to their destination.
Every other method of public transportation has designated seats for people with disabilities. It isn't your fault that airlines don't.
Lol wheelchair users typically pre plan like crazy. Its most likely the airline's fault.
It’s not even the passenger’s job to plan ahead for wheelchair accommodations — in most countries, the airline is legally responsible for accommodating people with physical disabilities. It’s never a good idea to assume they will do so with any degree of competence, but they are obligated nevertheless. The gate agents handled this badly, and that is neither OP’s fault nor the fault of the passenger in the wheelchair. The only asshole here is the airline.
The airlines have caused this problem by charging for seats. If they want to change your seat that you paid extra for they should 1) be required to ask 2) be required to give you a seat in the same price point or an instant refund. People who have chosen to take the free seats or limited leg room seats should not be given consideration in moving around the plain. We are a large family and have always paid for seats and it sucks! I consider that the cost of sitting together and don’t think other people should be moved around for us because we didn’t want to spend the extra money.
NTA even without your own disability. If the airline wants to have the seat available as a convenience/courtesy for passengers in wheelchairs, they can certainly keep it available as such - but that means no upcharging other customers for it. It's the airline's responsibility to accommodate, not passengers', and while obviously we want to be kind, paying extra and being pressured to give it up out of respect for someone with a disability is pure corporate greed. I am firmly against this whole practice. Also you have your own disability, so there's that too.
It's absolutely baffling to me that an airline, responsible to accommodate their passengers accordingly, tries to put their responsibility on another random passenger
It's not baffling to me; it's quite capitalist. Doing stuff themselves would (gasp) *cost money*.
Dollars to doughnuts they picked OP because they paid in advance and figured he probably wouldn’t jump through all the hoops of reimbursement too.
Yep, this right here.
To compete with other airlines, they want to keep tickets as cheap as possible. This has gotten to absurd low prices, which in turn has led to tiny chairs with no leg space, no food, paying extra for bagage, reservation, seat selection and you name it, and still they overbook to make even more money. They make you pay to sit together, but in the end that is no guarantee you get what you paid for. It's a disgrace and there should be done something about it.
It's not absurd, it's low-coster. You can still use regular companies with full services. But they still cost different.
It probably depends on in which country you live. In my country you can chose between first class (hardly anyone can pay that) or economy (with or without upgrade), but it still means overbooking, tiny seats, no guarantee that the booked chair is yours, etc. There is not one company here with full service in economy or comfort (the upgrade), not any plane with normal leg or hip / shoulder space. We never take a so-called 'price fighter' and always chose the more expensive option, but still we have to deal with these issues.
Never had this experience with regular companies in Europe but a lot with low-cost. Maybe you're right, it's regional thing
and not even ask politely. the person who made their own plans ahead may have had a really good reason to do so.
These agents sound so rude.
Also, forcing the customer to go after the reimbursement themself, wth?!
NTA You paid for the seat, you are in no way obligated to give it up, ESPECIALLY if you weren't asked.
NTA - Many factors here are not fully clear, but it's really the airlines problem and not yours to accommodate other passengers. As for seat... If you paid for A seat in economy, then you can be moved even if you picked a specific one because that's treated more like a preference. Nothing wrong with asking for a comparable seat! "Hey, no problem as long as I can have the same (example) aisle seat I chose as I need that." You picked it, planned your trip and that's part of the situation you planned for (carryons and access to such). If you have a condition, then that's 100% a factor as well. If you paid for an upgraded seat, such as with more legroom, then you generally get to keep that seat and can insist on a comparable seat. There are regulations around the money an airline has to pay you for not providing a seat you paid for, but when it boils down to it a stewardess can relocate you without your consent. She'll just have to answer to the airline later about it, especially if she forced you into a lower value seat because now the airline is in breach of contract for what you were sold. I had similar happen where I had paid for an upgraded seat with more leg room. I get some anxiety when in a middle or window seat, so I always go out of my way to ensure I have an aisle seat. Along comes stewardess asking to relocate me to a middle seat so a family could sit together. I said "no thank you. I paid extra for this seat to be in an aisle seat for my condition. If you have another aisle seat, then I would consider it" except none were available. They tried to bully me into it and ask about my condition with a snarky tone. I held my ground, told them I am not discussing my medical conditions with them, and asked if they were refusing to provide the exact seat I paid the airline extra for? They gave up and found another solution. I've relocated several times to help other passengers, but I'm not giving up my paid value because another passenger or the airline failed to plan appropriately.
it was an upgraded seat
Then they have to provide with you a seat of equal or better monetary value. Even if they do, you could likely get money back unless they put you in first class. If not, you could get multiples of money back for breach of the contract. I think you handled it well
In your particular case I wouldn't even have mentioned any medical condition, if they cant move you to another aisle seat then its on the family for not picking their seats together.
Airlines oversell, double-book, make seats smaller, charge for everything, and constantly delay flights and lose luggage. Their entire focus is profits at the expense of any customer comfort (and sometimes safety). They accept government subsidies, bailouts etc and breach the conditions without penalty. This is one hundred percent on them and not at all on you. NTA
I experienced a bit more that day sadly. Once I boarded someone else(not the person needing assistance) was in my seat, had to ask them to move. Went to change flights and was delayed for 5 hours due to the plane being unrepairable and lost my upgraded seat(so did some in 1st class) Luckily I got a comparable seat on that flight
I’m frustrated just reading this! And this has been commonplace - it’s actually odd to have a flight run smoothly and it takes so long to request refunds/corrections (by design) so most just give up while regulators watch and don’t correct. Lol I’ll stop venting now. But seriously the airline staff painting this as your failure to accommodate is laughable - both you and the other person paid for specific things and it is the airline that has to resolve the issue. Hope your next air travel experience is more tolerable!
Yeah I am happy to be home now, took the day off just so me and my wife can lay in bed and catch up on some tvs shows and intimacy. Crazy thing about that scenario is that the chose my seat(2A) when there were 5 others that were similar. The guy ended up in 1A. The whole time I was thinking WTF didn't they start with 1A to begin with? I just think it was a lazy worker who didn't want to maneuver through the plane. My last flight had 3 different people needing wheelchair assistance and were seated just fine.
Commenting here so you'll see it: From now on, call ahead to add special assistance to your bookings for your mobility/inflammation issues. Its not enough to get you a free seat under most airline policies (though tossing in "disabled vet" might help) but it should be enough to *mostly* prevent them from trying to move you to a non-comparable seat. People who need aisle chair assistance need an aisle seat with a liftable arm rest, so options are limited, but they're going to move an able-bodied passenger before they're going to move a disabled veteran with a special assistance reservation
Because the person in 1A was likely an airline employee and they like to lookout for their own.
Can confirm that they look out for their own. My cousin works for Alaska Airlines
NTA. You're a paying customer who planned ahead for your own needs.
NTA. The airline doesn't just get to reassign your seat without your permission. And how tf do they know you didn't need that seat to deal with a disability of your own? That's right, they didn't.
Being a flight attendant right now has to be one of the toughest jobs, but they STILL need to give good customer service. Airlines treat people like garbage! NTA for sticking up for yourself. You have medical needs, too.
NTA >Agent 1 said, with an attitude "its just a respect thing for someone with a disability" I would have replied with "it's just a respect thing to ask someone to switch seats not tell them they are" then also point out I too am disabled and the reasons why I purchased that specific seat.
I would’ve been petty and explained in detail how I got became disabled. It’d make them feel (or at least look like) jerks being rude to a military vet who got an injury serving their country.
NTA I would be shocked if your disability act puts the responsibility on clients rather than merchants. If it does, it needs to be dismantled. This isn’t offering up your seat on a bus and shouldn’t be handled that way.
NTA, you paid. They didn't ask but demanded and you were in your right to say no. Also, you don't have to disclose your medical but if it ever happens again, I would mention just to be petty
NTA. I am a cancer patient and I do require wheelchair assistance but I'd never ask someone to give up the seat that they PAID for nor would I allow a gate agent to either as I am a passenger like anyone else and I will plan ahead and book the seat I require. So don't feel bad, OP. You had every right to keep your seat reservation.
NTA. 1) You needed that seat. 2) You paid for that seat. 3) The disabled person could have paid for the better seat if he wanted it. Though I’m not blaming him. Sounds like the flight attendants took matters into their own hands. 4) They just decided that you would give up your seat. This is yet another example of the airline industry shitting all over their passengers. Idk how it got to be where this kind of behavior is allowed.
NTA You paid extra for that seat. They should ask.
NTA.
NTA report the staff to the airline for unprofessional behaviour, they should have asked if you were willing, offer a full refund and another suitable seat for the inconvenience since it's the wheelchair passengers fault for not buying the correct seat not yours
>since it's the wheelchair passengers fault for not buying the correct seat not yours Nope. People who require aisle chair assistance do not have to pay for their aisle seat. Assistance has to be requested ahead of time, and the person who puts the info in the reservation is supposed to reserve an aisle for them. Either this was a last minute booking where all the remaining aisle seats had already been opened for purchase (they keep some blocked off *specifically* for customers with disabilities) or someone at the airline fucked up.
NTA- To be honest you shouldn’t care who needed that seat. You paid for your spot you deserve it. You are not in the wrong for doing what you did. I don’t see why you’d have to forcefully be switched for someone else. Everybody could say that you are the asshole until they are in that situation themselves. I will directly say that I wouldn’t give my seat up for something like that.
NTA. You Upgraded to a specific seat. You planned ahead and deserve to get your seat or a comparable or be reimbursed.
Wheelchair user here with multiple disabilities and even without your disabilities, I would still say NTA. Seems like they were able to figure it out without you giving up your seat, so they're super in the wrong.
r/stolenseats Edit: NTA
nta and you earned that right and i consider you equal to having that seat also i have had members of my family who also look normal but need the same seat as welll
NTA. You paid extra for that seat and you're entitled to it. I am so sorry you need a knee replacement. It's a particularly hellish pain.
NTA. And as one person with a non-visible disability to another, if someone tries to pull the >Agent 1 said, with an attitude "its just a respect thing for someone with a disability thing again, feel free to say "Thank you for saying that! As I'm sure you're aware, not every disability is visible and not everyone with a mobility impairment uses a wheelchair. I paid the extra money for that seat to accommodate my disability. So glad we're on the same page!"
NTa. But I would have replied that respect is asking someone if they can help, not telling them the seat they paid for is gone. Respect is asking because maybe that person is also disabled and not in a wheelchair and simple intelligence would tell you that not everyone who is disabled needs a wheel chair or shows it externally at one glance from a judgemental position. Not a vet, but also got fucked knees, waiting on replacements (age thing more than not available/affordable right now) and yeah, chronic pain, swollen joints, need for space because keeping them in one position for long makes them worse. People assuming I'm not disabled at all because I can walk is frustrating. Also nothing like the periods I did use a wheelchair but can get out of it for short periods or move my legs. People thinking that in public they can come up and cal you out because you move your legs while in a wheelchair like they caught you. People suck.
All passengers deserve respect. Not all disabilities are visible. You should have been asked, not told. NTA
I'm a diabled vet too. I still wouldn't give up my seat even if i wasn't disabled. The airline should have better disability assistance. When i was abroad, some old ass tourists tried to tell me and my friend to move from the front row cause his wife gets car sick. We were the last people on the bus. It's not our fault you didn't choose sit somewhere that would help your wife.
Thank you for your service
NTA. Doesn’t matter if you have a disability or not either. You payed for that seat so it is yours for the flight. They had no right to try and shame you into giving it up. The other passenger may need wheelchair assistance but does that stop them planning ahead and booking the seat themselves? No it doesn’t. They can’t expect other people to just sacrifice their payed for seats at the last moment.
There is very rarely a situation where a passenger has pre-selected a seat, the airline changes it, and the passenger demands to keep that seat where the passenger is TA. The fact that you paid to select that seat just makes it infuriating. When we fly, unless we are fortunate enough to be in 1st class, we are paying to be in a seat that doesn’t fit most humans comfortably. The airline is already screwing you by charging you for less space than you’d need. When you decide to pony up hard earned money for a seat that isn’t wider, but has less inches of additional leg room than the length of the phone most of us are reading this in, it’s okay to demand satisfaction from those greedy sobs. Just do so in a manner that is calm, respectful, and most importantly not an AH. Remember, the person that is angry and yelling is the crazy one. If you’re polite, kind, but definitive in what you expect to be fair, it’s much easier for them to help you. OP, you are NTA in any way what-so-ever. Good job standing up for yourself.
No. You paid extra for that specific seat. The attendants should have offered to upgrade you. Just because you're in a wheelchair, it doesn't mean you (or your caregivers) don't have a brain. They should have bought the appropriate seats.
NTA you have every right to what you pay for. Paying for a specific seat makes it yours.
NTA. It's not a city bus with a reserved section. You get the seat you pay for.
NTA period! I would have told the agents in a very not so nice voice that you are a disabled verteran and how dare they treat you with such disrespect. I’m sorry you were treated like that, Airlines luck people out of the seats like they are gods.
NTA. All physical needs are not immediately visible. You did the right thing. Frankly people in wheelchairs can reserve special seats, just like you did. I once had to fly cross-country to see a special orthopedist when I had 3 fractures in my leg. I was in a wheelchair, ankle-to-hip brace, walker the whole bit. It never occurred to me to ask someone close to the front to give up a seat. Geez.
NTA, poor planning on their part, oh well, but that they tried to cheat you out of your money is a shitty move.
Nta, but eeeek that’s a tricky thing to navigate irl 😮💨
1000% NTA. Thank you for your service!!!
NTA and I'd file a complaint about those two employees, for the manipulation and disrespect. (I wouldn't expect it to result in anything 😅. But still.)
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I recently had an early morning return flight where I paid extra money for a seat that was the 2nd from the front and 1 of about 5 different seats that were the only seat in their row. At boarding the agent called me there, there were 2 of them. The first agent just said that she was going to give my seat to someone else who needed wheelchair assistance. I fly pretty often and see people needing wheelchair assistance all the time and are seated through various parts of the plane. I was immediately shocked because the agent didn't ask IF I would give up my seat but just matter of factly explained that she will be assigning me another seat. I probably would have if they had asked instead of telling me. I asked if I would get a comparable seat and was told no. I then stated that I had paid for that seat, agent 2 then jumped in and said snarkily "you paid for A seat" I corrected him and told him I paid for THAT seat(as picking it out online and paying the appropriate fee) Agent 1 began reciting the 800 number for me to be reimbursed when Agent 2 said never mind and went into the plane I guess to make other arrangements. Agent 1 said, with an attitude "its just a respect thing for someone with a disability "In the end I kept my seat and the person requiring wheelchair assistance was given the seat directly in front of me. I am a disabled veteran but do not require wheelchair assistance. I bought that seat because of some issues with my knees(both have been scoped and I have to get frequent cortisol shots for pain and swelling). I have been needing a knee replacement since 10 years ago but the orthopedic doc won't do it because I am too young. I also have a heart condition where the medication makes my feet and lower legs swell if they're bent too long. So, AITA for not giving up my seat? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA you paid for that seat ahead of time due to your disability. It’s not right for them to insist you give it up for someone else who clearly didn’t plan ahead
NTA You paid extra specifically for that seat. I wouldn't move either, unless they gave me a comparable seat.
NTA
NTA. You paid for it and you are not obligated to give it up.
NTA. Just another case of airlines making customers feel responsible for disabled flyers instead of facing the expense themselves.
NTA. This is on the airline. You paid for the seat. The person in the wheelchair probably also paid for a seat. This is on the airline. Airlines are just generally awful to people in wheelchairs. But they also clearly were able to get the person on the flight just fine.
NTA. You paid for a *specific* seat and have physical issues of your own that gave you very legitimate reasons for needing and wanting the seat you paid for.
NTA. Airplane companies make big money in offering this option that you pay a lot of extra money to secure a particular seat. Once they take your money, they should stick to the written arrangement, what it actually is. Disabled people should just make arrangements before they fly. I'm on crutches and I'm flying in 2 months and so we phoned the company what their rules were about crutches and seating and such, to take the necessary precautions. And I hate it that when someone does not have a *visible* disability, it is always automatically assumed that person is totally healthy.
NTA the airline is greedy. This is a corporation issue. The air staff need updated training as well to handle this situation. It seems they didn’t even consider you may have an “invisible” disability. I don’t want to demonize the flight agents but they could have handled the situation better.
NTA
NTA - disabled person should be booking their seats appropriately not your problem
NTA - not all disabilities are immediately visible (like yours and some of mine) and someone simply being visibly disabled does not mean all other people’s rights and privileges can be disregarded.
NTA, personally I would call to complain.
I'm disabled and you are NTA
There is absolutely no need for you to justify your decision to give up your seat. It doesn't matter if you have a disability or not. You paid for that seat. You weren't rude. They were rude to you. It's also a respect thing to at the very least ask the person you're downgrading instead of trying to force it upon you like those two did.
NTA I’d have taken the names of the staff involved and the flight number and date and sent a strongly worded complaint to the airline You paid for a specific seat. The other passenger could also have ordered and paid for a specific seat How dare they try to shame you like that Your disability and their disability is irrelevant in this situation But - if you do complain - yeh I’d add weight to the complaint and lay it on extra thick about the fact you’re a disabled veteran. How you have a hidden disability that you wished to remain private - but instead you were shamed by members of staff
NTA They should have reimbursed you the difference at the very least
NTA I would have voted otherwise if you didn't have health issues, but you do, so keeping your seat was necessary.
NTA. They can’t move you to a cheaper seat and violate the contract. Fwiw also thank you for your service 👍
NTA, they should have offered to reimburse you and also asked you because as you said - you have a disability too that they didn't know about. For next time, you do not gave to disclose your disability or give up your seat but you may want yo just tell them why quietly, it isn't ideal but then they would just move someone else instead, they (the flight company) don't wont want to disrespect a veteran or a disability. People LOVE to make assumptions based on appearance and are often rude when they don't get their way having assumed all is fine, it is frustrating - I have issues with my legs, can't have a bag on my lap, that upsets people too 🤦🏻♀️ people are weird.
Anyone reading only the subject line would say YTA but nope, NTA! You paid, you have medical reasons. Needing a wheelchair at the airport doesn't mean your needs supercede everyone else's. The flight attendant didn't take you into consideration at all, likely because you don't fit her image of a person with medical needs. You stood up for your very real needs and rights. Thank you for your service.
"Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine." NTA
NTA, you paid extra for it, end of story
I would have asked agent 2 to write the 800 number for me and called it on my cell in front of them to lodge a complaint. NTA.
NTA. You paid for the seat so you shouldn’t have to give it up at their demand. People would probably be more receptive if they didn’t demand like this anyway. It makes it worse that you’re disabled too and actually need it
NTA OP. I am a person with a disability, and I wouldn’t dream of asking someone to give up their seat for me, and as far as I’m concerned, if I had been you, I’d have told that agent to get bent.
NTA. The airlines lack of suitable seats isn’t your issue. You bought a seat and that’s that! ‘Respect for disability’ is just nonsense.
NTA. I would have told them I pre-paid for that seat due to my own medical issues.
NTA. This is the fault of the airline industry. They need to fix their planes and their booking system.
Wow. Just wow. Reiterating facts: - You paid extra for and selected particular seat - Wheelchair assist person *didn’t* bother to do that - Boarding agent 1 doesn’t ask, but rather *tells* you they’re making the switch - Switch is for an inferior seat - BA2 gives you snark - BA1 decides to manipulate you by shaming you for your refusal That would be enough for me to say NTA. Add to that—you’re a disabled vet? AND you’re humble enough to not lord it over people? My takeaways: 1. Thank you for your service. 2. Call the airline after the fact and complain about the agents—they were inappropriate even before considering your DV status. 3. Maybe you should wear something subtle to tip them off to your Veteran status—like the hats some vets wear. That might be enough to stave off the issue later on.
Thank you for that and thank you for your support of veterans.
NTA You paid extra for a seat, you planned your trip well. Your medical status or service means nothing in this argument. A wheelchair might stop them from walking, but not planning.
NTA. The gate agents were trying to cheat you out of the extra fee you paid for that seat. The chances of getting a refund after calling the 800 number was slim to none. Those gate agents were unethical as hell. If you can’t process a refund then and there then you are a swindler.
I remember myself in a similar situation when i was being guilt tripped by this family and a flight attendant who joined in later when I paid for 2 seats just for myself and that they thought their toddler/baby deserved to just “take” one seat, even though they didn’t think of that when they were booking the tickets! It was sort of the in-between stage of baby and toddler so they probably thought they didnt need to get a separate seat as the kid was in a gray area They showed some form/letter from the airline (which im guessing they got through connections within the airline, cause ive never heard of something like this) that read that they would get to use a seat for their kid if one was free, but one wasn’t! Apparently, even their “higher-up friends” had guaranteed that one seat would be kept free near their seats, but the plane was clearly overbooked cause there were passengers who werent checked through for no reason at all when they passed TSA and i rmbr that had caused a scene all of them berated me for being an AH but i did not flinch, just be direct and clear about the matter and do not raise your voice as they might see it as a opportunity to get you out, be respectful and clear -if the mom asked me kindly i would definitely have allowed and helped her out, but their entitlement and attitude almost threw me into a fit! I know some people might attack me for taking 2 seats, but i paid for both seats! I am a severe germaphobe and its uncontrollable ever since i recovered from malaria Had complications and it ended up destroying me
NTA And that is something that should have been worked out when the other customer bought their seat.
NTA and I would report the agent for their behaviour.
NTA even if you didn't have a disability. Even if you didn't pay extra, it's on the airline to accommodate disabled passengers. This is their fuckup they wanted to pass on to you.
NTA and next time throw it in their face "I am a war veteran who has hidden disabilities and I specifically bought that seat for those reasons. Just because they cannot be seen doesn't mean they're not there and I am needing that seat. You are being snarky, rude and unprofessional' and just leave them there gobsmacked cause that is what is going to happen if you do that. People love to be holy than thou until you remind them of stuff
I think you are, I think it’s a small thing you can do.
NTA The staff were incredibly rude. I'm sure there would be other people who are able bodied and willing to move. As you say, you have a disability as well and there are other seats with other people who could be available and willing.
Nta
NTA
NTA. First they should be asking you if you can switch seats not telling you. Considering you paid extra they should find a seat that is the same or upgrade you so you don’t loose out on money. As for your knee have your tried other orthopedic doctors? Sometimes you have to try multiple doctors before you find one that will help
NTA. You did not disclose your medical condition to the agents, but that probably would not have mattered to them at all. You paid your money for a specific seat, you get that seat.
NTA 1) you paid for the seat and the agents 2) were just going to fob you off on the corporation and 3) as you said they were just rude about it. 4) you bought a seat- no i paid for that seat and paid extra so that's an issue.
NTA. The agent and flight attendants were being lazy in not wanting to push the wheelchair further back.
NTA - they tried to bump you from a premium seat into a cheaper seat for free
NTA. The airline should have accommodated the wheelchair user better, and not at your expense.
NTA Even if you didn't have a disability issue, this isn't like a bus where it's first come first serve, it's an issue where either the other passenger didn't want to pay the extra or the airline messed up and overbooked (which is fairly common). If the agent had been polite then it might have been good of you to agree to it, but given the attitude they had from the start, why would they think you were obligated to help them out?
Someone said I did it out of spite. That wasn't the case. I had been up since 3am to make it to the airport to make my flight, was treated rudely, and have disabilities that make it very difficult and painful to walk. Had the agents approached with a different attitude I would have been more amenable. My guess is that they were fed up with the guy as when they told him he had to check his carryon he put up a fuss.
NTA. I’m allergic to cats and have one myself. She can handle taking an allergy pill if it’s that deep for her. Stand your ground.
NTA. Those gate agents are bullies but probably have a “good deed quota” where they really think they did something good there.
NTA and idc if your hurt or not. You paid for that seat.
No you’re not!!
NTA.
NTA, you paid for the seat, Seatguru is. Prior to it's popularity it was easier to assign seats, and there wasn't any fees. Pssengers started picking their seats using Seatguru that I held off assigning, in case I needed them for my "specials". (Specials can be anyone that has a physical or mental disability, unaccompanied minors to a someone with a baby needing a seat with an extra oxygen mask.) Passengers became more belligerent, and would refuse to move when asked, causing flight delays. This eventually led to the airline blocking seats. We then ran into the problem of assigning seats at the gate, when they should have been boarding. Finally, they started charging for seats, which helped to speed up boarding process and brought in revenue, but it has angered passengers.
NTA
NTA. They should have asked you, at which time you could have explained you have are disabled as well, they just can't see it.
NTA
NTA report the staff. Probably won't achieve anything but do it, especially if you can remember their names.
NTA, you paid for a certain seat and you should get that seat or get your money refunded. The airline failed hardcore on this one. They oversold these seats and are trying to fix it without losing money.
It's not "just a respect thing". Yes, it's reasonable to move you to a worse seat to accommodate the wheelchair user. The airline should compensate you for this. Double the premium you paid to pick your seat is about the right mark. NTA
NTA. No one is ever TAH for not giving up a seat they paid for.
NTA you know you needs and limitations, booked and paid for and planned for accordingly. Not your problem.
NTA
NTA. You paid for the seat and you have disabilities of your own to deal with.
NTA - You paid for your seat AND you paid extra for it. IF the person with a disability needs a special seat, they shouud reserve it ahead of time. This is why they have the option to purchase seats ahead of time. Their lack of planning should not become a problem for you. Regardless of your disability.
NTA You did't have to tell us about your medical history for us to know that you aren't the ah. I feel for people with disabilities but you paid for that specific seat, and from what I understood, you were willing to give up that seat of the agents weren't straight up rude and annoying. I would've done the same.
NTA - your purchasing that seat is a contract. They asked if they could break that contract and you said no so it’s end of story.
NTA. Even if you were not a disabled veteran, you paid for that particular seat. If the airline was willing to give an equivalent seat or even compensate you for the inconvenience, not just refunding the amount, then it would be a different scenario.
NTA. It's absurd that an airline would charge you for something and then try to take it away.
NTA hey OP disabled vet here......I found that if you put down your a DV some airlines will upgrade you for free if they have the space other than that your left alone