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You don't know why she dislikes you? You never heard anyone saying you were pushing your beliefs before? Really? Because I've been reading this for 30 seconds and I know exactly why she dislikes you, and it's because you are pushing your beliefs on her.
YTA. You are making this whole situation about you. Let them be a family together. Let them set the rules for how the baby is cared for, unless they are doing something objectively dangerous. ("You might spoil the baby if you pick her up" is not objectively dangerous.) Let go of how you were deprived of what you seem to think is your right to be present at one of the most vulnerable moments of her life.
You can't ruin a relationship with a 6 week old baby. But you're well on your way to ruining the relationships with your son and daughter in law. Back way, way off if you ever hope to be welcome in their lives.
I would be unsurprised if OP is also the type who thinks she’s helping when she’s doing what she wants and not what’s needed.
I felt second hand embarrassment just reading this post. How embarrassing to be so out of touch and pushing parenting practices that have been shown to be harmful.
the fact that it was her own mother's first time meeting the baby suggests that everyone else kept their distance for a bit and here she's been 5 times.
But she gave them space for 20 whole minutes!! (before, presumably, stepping right back in again with the bullshit).
YTA, OP. This whole post is the very embodiment of [missing missing reasons.](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
I thought the same thing about the missing missing reasons. Except OP lists many reasons in her post, but doesn't see how what she says and does is so disturbing and hurtful. OP, YTA.
You know it’s cringe when you’re reading the person’s own perspective and it still makes you want to scream like the baby that doesn’t want to be held… by her…
Info missing from OPs post:
- showed up at hospital - did she ask to visit? Did she ask when she can visit? Or did she just rock up
- been over 5 times to see the family - again, did she ask the new parents when she could come around? If it was ok? Did she bring them a home cooked meal, do chores, give the 7yo some grandma love and attention? Did she ask new parents (especially recovering mum) if they needed any help? Did she check in on how mum is recovering or just rock up to have baby snuggles?
Thank you for that link. It was really interesting. I’m doing lots of work on my childhood right now and it helped clarify the difference in viewpoints and recollections.
Yes! OP is so cringey….stops into the hospital, keeps stopping by the house, only to insist that the baby cries….what is the purpose for the random visits? How is OP helping the new mom?!? She’s not, obviously, because OP has to be the center of attention.
Oh yeah, you KNOW she didn't even bother to call ahead to see if it was OK. I wonder how often, before and after pregnancy, MIL just drops by without asking first. THAT was the first thing I picked up on after the actual wanting to be in the delivery room for the birth. This woman is mad pushy and stomping on boundaries.
Hey OP QUESTION: When YOU gave birth would YOU have wanted your MIL there? Like really? Why do I have the feeling that would be a resounding no. YTA
this is the bit that got me!
the mum's mum always meets the baby first if they have a good relationship so the fact OP has been barging in while the MOTHER OF THE CHILD'S own mother has respected her request for space .... WOW
Obviously the entire post show's how deluded OP is but that bit is what really made my eyes bug out of my head
Exactly.
OP, did she know you were coming to the hospital? Have your weekly visits been unannounced?
You need to respect that she's not going to make a six week old baby cry it out. Comments about an infant manipulating people with tears? That's just shitty.
It's a baby. It's gonna act like a baby. It needs what babies need - comfort. It sounds like the baby doesn't like how you hold it, which is probably why all the screaming happens.
Chill. You're causing this issue not her and not your son and certainly not the baby. It's you.
Yes to all of this. Like, OP being like "This tiny infant is probably picking up on the hostility and that's why she screams at me" made me roll my eyes a lot. At her age, she can see about 12 inches in front of her face, which means, she probably can't see her mother hating OP for butting in.
Also, this is OP's story and she's trying to make us side with her as much as possible, and she's already included 2 instances of assuming this literal infant can read situations or feelings: the baby picking up on the hostility, and claiming the baby is trying to manipulate her. What other stories has she left out where she's made weird-ass claims about this apparently incredibly advanced infant?
Because DIL and baby deserve their own agency too.
OP is treating them as if her role as grandmother is more important the DIL being the mom to her own child.
That comment - even if it was meant to be jokey baby talk, reveals a style of dealing w kids that we are moving away from quickly, bc it isn't good for them.
"Oh baby, I'm sorry I can't figure out how to old you so you're comfy, here, go back your momma who is your mothersihip." Even baby talk it's important to be in sync w parenting style.
Also glossing over that the baby is never hppy or resting when OP is holding her. It screams of OP handling things the way SHE thinks they should be & not giving agency to the to the baby. The baby is fussing and crying bc the baby isn't confortable.
OP has to stop pushing everything and really pay attentin to what the baby wants. DIL is likely upset because everytime OP barges in she winds the baby up. Then leaves, leaving DIL to clean up the mess of fussy baby.
My mom told me something similar with my daughter. She kept telling me that if I kept holding my daughter she would get used to it. I finally asked why that would be bad. She had no answer.
With my daughter I would often let her fall asleep in my arms when she was a toddler having the afternoon nap. She’s 18 now and an only child but is definitely not spoilt. Babies and children need love
And I'll bet any money she now moves through the world with confidence knowing that she can always turn to you for support and guidance. Thank you for giving her all that love. ❤️
One of my kids had a terrible nightmare last night and slept in my bed from 1:30 on. They're 5. Ideal? No not for anyone! But it won't last, and more importantly - she needed to feel safe.
Sometime once told me how much they loathe hearing about children being spoilt by having their needs met. Your toddler falling asleep in your arms. My kid needing night-long comfort. Those are needs. It's not spoiling to meet needs.
The best reply to the “you’re spoiling them” comment is “spoiling happens when something is left alone and forgotten, like food in the back of a kitchen cabinet. My children will not be spoiled.”
With my first, people told me that. I finally was like, “This kid just spent 10 months *inside* me. Of course she wants to be next to me and for me to hold her! And one day she’ll ignore me and act like I’m embarrassing her, so I’m going to take all the snuggles and love while I can!”
That usually shut them up!
All kids need to learn independence, but it feels weird to me that OP is trying to both ascribe and teach independence to a literal infant who is wholly and completely unable to directly articulate her needs or do anything by herself. Let the baby be a baby! You can't spoil a baby, and a baby cannot manipulate you. Their brains aren't that developed yet! The only thing OP's son's fiancee is doing by picking the baby up whenever she fusses is making sure the baby has a secure attachment to her, which will help the baby's eventual transition to independence as she gets older.
ETA: I also can't help but wonder if Jenny's change in attitude toward OP during her pregnancy might be because OP made a habit of offering unsolicited opinions?
Same. My husband's grandmother was saying some cutting (everything she said was) and I finally said "you had your turn raising kids. Can I have mine?" and it was my husband's suggestion every time we went low contact. I sure as heck wasn't going to say no.
Oh I zoomed right in on that. Dropping by unannounced five times is every new mothers dream. But as soon as I read “When I asked if I could be in the room with her during delivery and she clipped no” I knew what type of MIL she was and she didn’t disappoint lol. Like who ask to be in the room for starters?!!! And then who gets huffy when they can’t?
Also….the unsolicited parenting advice. We can just here are the judgment in her voice like “when she picks up the baby every time it makes a noise”. I mean the baby isn’t sensing Moms “hostility”. The baby is picking up on the MIL toxic, controlling and intrusive vibe.
And as a sidenote but its significant. She’s not a first time Mom who needs MIL judgmental advice.
I saw an IG real about the entitled MiL's who want to be in the delivery room. The woman said that giving birth is not a spectator sport, nor should family members treat it as such. Also the way those members phrase it also matters. "The birth of my grandbaby" which means you are completely discounting and ignoring the traumatic events the mother is going through as if she's an afterthought. The family who balk at not being allowed in the delivery room give me the ick of the everything. Just everything.
And got huffy about not being allowed in delivery because fiancée had somebody in the delivery room 7 years PRIOR, when she had her 1st (and probably decided afterward, it wasn't a great idea-for her).
This. I know OP *might* mean well, but that's incredibly intrusive, especially if unannounced. If it's not OP's home and not OP's baby, ASK FIRST. "It's my grandchild" does NOT mean they're entitled to anything.
If OP wants to have a role in that child's life at all, they need to back off.
OP shows up at both the hospital and their home without an invite and doesn't understand why the DIL doesn't like her anymore? How clueless can she be?
Plus she wanted to push in on the birth?? Just bc it's OP's grandchild does NOT mean OP is entitled to see their DIL's private parts. Or to be a part of that child's life if they don't back off.
I wonder if the daughter ever liked her or just grit her teeth through all of the other inappropriate forced interactions. Now with a baby she’s a fierce mama bear with no more Fs to give. YTA to the nth degree!
I knew the answer when I read the title. I still read the post, but I was correct. Chill out OP, no contact is real and thing and it's about to get really real for you. YTA
I bet when they go no contact, OP will definitely be over at r/legaladvice trying to figure out how to sue for grandparents' rights over a six week old baby.
YTA, OP, and it is just so entitled and deeply telling that you feel so threatened by a mother making sure her child is comfortable that you need to forcibly split them up by banning her mother from your home. Really says that your priorities are all about you and not at all about whether the baby is okay.
I’m of the same generation as OP, even I know it’s an outdated practice. OP should know too. Secure attachment is vital for a newborn and their emotional development. That’s what DIL is doing and I’m loving it.
The fact that she keeps holding the baby on its belly across her knees or arm. She doesn't even cuddle baby by the sound of it . Would love OP daughter in law to write on here.
>I would be unsurprised if OP is also the type who thinks she’s helping when she’s doing what she wants and not what’s needed.
That's a perfect description of something I've been struggling to put into words for a long time.
Legit this. That babe is in the 4th trimester and not just to say the baby is playing them but to go as far as to demand the son separate the newborn from their mother just for OP's benefit. Okay so mama is gonna have to prob pump a bunch and she best hope that baby accepts a bottle at that. Then she has to worry while baby is gone. Lots aren't ready for separation like that just yet.
(EDITED TO ADD PREFACE THE NEXT PARAGRAPH. As I totally see how it can seem I was generalizing but wasn't my intent, I should have elaborated. I do not mean ALL Americans. I mean old generations/higher ups who don't see the pressure and differences of raising young in this day and age with research and medical advancements. We know better now... but those who raised kids when we put them to bed at 7pm and never looked back, crying or not, see it as no big deal...)
It's so American to think "meh it's okay" cause ya'll are forced back to work so fast which is another topic in itself but it isn't right. It isn't natural.
You’re absolutely right, but please know American’s are not “meh it’s okay” about mothers going back to work after so few weeks. Every woman I know that has had a child feels extreme anxiety about those first drop offs to daycare and usually cry on their way to work. It’s fucking awful but unfortunately our elected officials don’t give a fuck.
I’m pregnant with my first child, a child I thought I would never have due to PCOS. I am dreading returning to work when she is so young and wish the US did better about maternity leave.
I'm so sorry they don't do better for you all. It's so deserved yet it's 2023 and ya'll are often forced back into it then have to pump hours of the day along with work. THEN go home and do house chores on top of that full time job and infant. I just cannot fathom.
And you can't count pumping as part of your workday unless you multitask. 🙃 And it's fairly recent that law endured a "private place to pump" wasn't a bathroom or broom closet.
I am writing this as my newborn is sleeping on my chest
I hate this notion of “spoiling a newborn” through holding them. My baby as of a couple of weeks ago only knew life inside of me. He is now having to figure out life on the outside, and I can only imagine how fucking terrifying that is. Suddenly he can get too cold or hot, his stomach can hurt, he is experiencing sounds and images he never has before. It is not spoiling a baby to comfort them
I’m sure OP thinks she’s being cute with her comments, but it isn’t cute when you’re still a hormone filled monster looking at your sleepy potato and ready to fight off anyone who so much looks at them the wrong way. Even my own mother I looked at her like she was fucking Myra hindley everytime she picked up my (then only) one week old son
Finally, I have it on good authority from my health visitor that newborns literally don’t have the sentience to “manipulate” caregivers. They cry when they are distressed. It is that simple. It is for the caregiver to comfort them, not ignore them to try and toughen them up
You snuggle that baby extra tight tonight!
My MIL said that she’d get used to being picked up every time she cried (AT TEN DAYS OLD!) Damn right she will - why on earth would you not respond to someone who’s only form of communication is to cry!
Of course I’m going to pick her up when she cries, she’s a potato with no concept of ‘manipulation’ and had been outside for 1/28th of the time that she’d been inside me so yes, she will be comforted and loved on if she cries!
Yup that’s exactly how babies get their needs met! Crying. And when they don’t get their needs met they can develop an anxious attachment style which will carry through every relationship they hever have throughout their lives. So yeah, pick up that crying baby. Snuggle em. Let that baby know you’re there for him or her. Such a weird thought to deprive a baby of love and cuddles when they’re crying
It’s such an odd concept “don’t let them think you’ll provide comfort every time they need it”… if my husband was upset I’d comfort him too, I wouldn’t say “deal with it I’m not helping everytime”. Of course babies want to be picked up and held close, they are so very vulnerable. (Not all babies Obv. But most!)
SPOIL THEM! Life is too short and too unpredictable to withhold love and affection.
I say this as my 4th grader has declared I cannot kiss him OR use my nickname for him in public.
I have no kids of my own so I tend to spoil my sisters kids and spend a lot of time with them. It hit harder than I thought when my niece (now 11 soon to be 16 :) no longer runs up to me and gives a soul crushing hug when I come over to visit like she did when she was 7-8ish. Now it's just a smile and hey uncle X. We're still close but you know, it's not the same.
They come back around. My 23year old niece came up to snuggle with me on the couch like she did when she was little last year. I'm the cool aunt again!
I agree. And it's impossible to spoil a child under one. They don't understand that they are separate beings from their mother. They need to know that they are safe and that their needs will be met. Otherwise, the world becomes a scary place and you get kids with attachment issues.
Also when you hold your baby and comfort them when they're crying they're more likely to be a HAPPY baby, not a spoiled one, because they can trust their needs will be met by their parents.
How dare that baby be spoiled with love, warmth and affection!!
YTA- if I’ve learned anything, you don’t offer parenting advice unless asked. I don’t care if you birthed out a litter and have “experience”! No one appreciated being told their doing something incorrectly
(I mean, unless truly unsafe obviously)
Right! And it's not even true! My baby was held a 90% of the time unless she was sleeping or doing floor time. Once she was able to move she hasn't wanted to picked up since. Just now she is wanting to be held
again but she just turned one and can ask lol
>I hate the point of view that holding a baby will spoil them. They are babies! No wonder the OP is not allowed near the baby
If we still had awards, I would give you one. The child development experts strongly agree with you.
OP also "stopped by?" Were you invited or did you just show up? If you have stopped in 5 times but she hasn't even had her own mother over, I imagine she was trying to limit who is around the baby and exposing her to Covid/RSV/illness during the height of the season. It doesn't sound like you're asking anything and making a lot of assumptions about your place. So to do that and then also criticize her parenting makes YTA.
The best "pop in" visit I had after my first was my pastor and his wife, who had 5 kids. They knocked, handed bags of frozen meals and freshly baked zucchini loaf through the door, said congrats and then left!
The line "crying it out bullshit" told me everything.
My MIL once suggested I follow her example of putting my baby in his stroller and leaving him out of earshot down the bottom of our garden, because that's how she taught her kids not to be needy.
Right then I knew no parenting advice coming from her was ever going to be taken on board. Luckily she never again shared her wisdom. I think my husband might have had a word with her. He was disgusted, and told me afterwards it explained so much.
OP YTA.
Science has given us the data we need on how "cry it out" parenting is not healthy.
Everything about her post screams AH. She's lucky the fiance is down for visiting with the baby at all. If I was the son, I might tell her that it isn't a good idea to visit with the baby yet, just for disrespecting my partner.
Edit: Corrected typo
My parents did cry it out parenting except for they continued it as I grew older which basically meant if I was upset about something they would ignore me and pretend I didn't exist even when I was asking for help or to talk. If I was upset, that meant I had to deal with it on my own.
Guess who has a fearful-avoidant/disorganized attachment style?
That's how I ended up with overcontrolled emotions. I don't even laugh at funny movies or express happiness, I became so unwilling to express myself that I bottle everything up inside and it manifests as intense physical tension, so every emotion I experience comes with the sensation of muscle pain and nausea. I'm working on it, but damn if the effects of being emotionally neglected for the first half of my life don't run deep into the core of my personhood.
I’ve read enough JNMIL to see the signs. Wanted in the delivery room. Was she invited to the hospital or did she just show up? Same question for visiting the house. Does she help in any meaningful way when at the house? Etc.
I was going to ask that - does ‘stopping by’ mean asking when a good time to visit would be, abiding by that, and leaving after 20-30 minutes, or does it mean arriving with no notice, demanding to hold the baby and not leaving for hours?
ETA: Blerg. I read it wrong. The comparison was apt. But still, her delivery room, her choice. Not even dad gets a say.
And she equated herself in the delivery room with the first BD. To be so clueless as to not see the difference speaks volumes about this woman.
I’m guessing OP said some dumbass shit to the fiancé that she’s either purposely leaving out or doesn’t even think it was a big deal. Probably commented on what the fiancé was eating or otherwise criticized her on some aspect of her pregnancy. My MIL wanted to be in the room and I was like oh hell no. She was very upset when I didn’t want them to come out to even be at the hospital and it was because I didn’t want the stress of her BS around while I was in my most vulnerable time. And of course she had a fit about it and I had to email her asking why it was a problem to come out shortly after the baby was born.
OP YTA. I’m positive you’ve said some way worse shit than what you’re letting on. And you can’t fucking spoil a baby with affection. There are studies upon studies about how important touch is during childhood. Babies literally need their mother to survive and crying is the only way a newborn can communicate that! Very glad your son gave you a solid hell no to bringing the baby over without his fiancé. Who asks something like that?! Oh right, your entitled ass.
I read a bunch of posts by new mom's about their MIL being pushy about wanting to be in the delivery room and showing up at the hospital when they were told not to, and just not listening to their boundaries etc. I guess this is the post from the MIL side, lol.
Definitely YTA.
When OP said she'd been there five times since the birth, I had to stop and scroll back up to check how old the baby was. Trying to visit every single week is incredibly overbearing, especially when you're picking fights with the mother instead of cleaning or offering to cook/bring them food. YTA, OP
Oh, it’s much, much worse than just visiting five times. She “stopped by” 5 times. Which I can guarantee you means that she wasn’t invited, she just rocked up on their doorstep when it was convenient for her and expected DIL to play host while OP entertains herself with the baby, likely disrupting any attempt to settle baby into a routine in the process.
This and I am curious—
Why on earth would a woman want her mother in law in the room while giving birth? It’s a personal, private moment to have my personal area exposed to the world and another woman wants to stare it down?
I was a foster child at 16 and my foster mother wanted me in the room while she had her daughter. While the arrival and birth were emotional for all- I could seriously have done without seeing it all in up close detail!
Is this really a thing. ?? Maybe it’s just me…. Wait for the baby to be checked out, cleaned up, the mother to be put back together a little. I mean, I feel it’s a private thing between the parents. Not a spectator sport. I am probably wrong here. And if so, Mia culpa!
No, you’re 100% right, to the point where many L&D nurses wind up serving as bouncers because of this bananas trend of overbearing family members trying to barge in, which obviously would inhibit labor and can lead to a much worse outcome for mother & baby.
YTA. OP, they have a six week old baby. This is the time for the mother and father to bond with their child. You don't just drop by to their home all the time.
Everything I read is about how you get to spend time with the baby, ignoring weather or not this is good for the baby and DIL. If you truly wanted to help you'd take work out of their hands since DIL is recovering from giving birth and they're sleep deprived. Take the 7yo for the day, offer to help with chores...
💯. OP, YTA. Have you tried asking your son what needs to change, apologizing to your DIL, and changing your behavior?
FWIW, I actively disliked my MIL during my pregnancy/newborn period due to some of her actions in the months prior. She gave us space, respected our boundaries, and loved my kid which thawed my feelings towards her. We now have a good relationship because she is incredible and supportive of my family and my kids and we’re lucky to have her in our lives. I know that she felt some type of way with our first about not getting enough time with our newborn. We needed our space and her seeing our newborn once a month didn’t ruin their relationship. My kids stay the night at her house once a month and they have a beautiful relationship, but if she’d acted like you are acting things would be very different.
Wanted to add maybe Op could apologize and just say I realized I was overstepping I'm going back off and I would like for us to start fresh. Because if the fiance is expecting op to sprout out stuff to her at any minute, she's still not going to relax and rebuild that relationship.
So you have to admit it; you have to apologize and you have to move on without butting in unless there is actual danger to the baby as waa previously said.
Omg agree. YTA and you’re insane to try to separate a new baby from her mom early postpartum like that! She’s could be breastfeeding or have a specific way to take formula. Very selfish!!!
It’s funny because reading this I was all set to say now way is she TA. Then I got to read your comment and all sorts of lights flipped on and I realized that I was just feeling bad for her and not seeing the big picture.
You should not let a newborn cry and not pick them up!! Not the issue really. The issue is she is the mother and what she says goes…period!
Maybe there was a reason she wanted some people with her while delivering her baby and not others. Does matter because she’s the one having a baby!
Step back and let them breathe! You’ve visited 5 times. That seems like a lot to me. Especially when you’re dealing with a newborn. I didn’t want anyone around frankly!!! So yeah YTA
YTA, sorry. Telling your future DIL that she shouldn't hold the baby all the time because "the baby is going to get used to it" incorporated three errors, and it seems like you didn't notice any of them. So I would guess that you have done a lot of other problematic things you haven't noticed and this is raising your future DIL's hackles. The first error you made in that one instance was, you criticized her parenting. Never criticize a child-in-law's parenting unless it's a matter of life and death. The second error you made was that you used "I'm older and know better" logic to contradict her. That never goes down well because it comes across as controlling - but also, modern parents generally believe that parenting techniques have improved over the decades, so your "old fashioned" advice is going to be assumed to be wrong. You might as well tell her not to use a carseat, that's how credible she will take your 30-years-old parenting advice to be. The third error you made, and possibly the worst, is that you treated her like she has no idea how to be a mom when she actually already has a 7 year old. This isn't her first time around the block, and you ignoring that, will be taken, correctly, to be demeaning.
You've already described three things you did that are destined to antagonize her but you describe all of them as if they were completely fine: asking to be in the delivery room (you're supposed to wait to be invited, and, if not invited, you say nothing), telling the baby "You won't get your own way with me" (which, maybe was just said jokingly, but in context of your other mistakes, maybe not), and telling her she shouldn't hold the baby all the time.
I'll give you a pass on holding the baby a way your DIL didn't like. As long as you weren't doing anything actively dangerous, I think your DIL should not treat you like you're an idiot who has never held a baby before. That is hostile and controlling on her part. However you'll get nowhere confronting her about it, if something like that happens again, the person you should speak to is your son.
The best way to interact with your DIL is not to tear down her choices but to build her up. "I love how much you play with the baby, you're a really good mom." "I love how you've encouraged your son to be such an attentive big brother." Help out where you can, but ask first: "Would you like me to make you a quick lunch while you feed the baby? What would you like?" "Would you like me to read a story to \[older child\] while you put Rosa down for a nap?"
I think you did correctly by addressing your concerns to your son rather than your future DIL but asking him to bring the baby without his fiance was not the right way to go about it. I think it was fine for you to say you felt unwelcome and that your DIL behaves in a hostile manner towards you, but probably would have been better if you had followed that with something like, "What can I do to make this better?"
I totally feel for you. I'm a mom with no daughters, only sons. Although I've made HUGE efforts to include my in-laws in my children's lives, I definitely see that most mothers don't make the same effort and some are pretty active about centering all their activities on their own parents and excluding their husband's parents. So I could easily be in your situation in future. At the same time, I also see the ways my MIL and FIL, albeit nice people, have undermined me and demeaned me in their zeal to be The Authority Over Our Grandkids And Center of All Things, and I can totally understand how life-sucking that is for a DIL.
There's a fourth thing she did wrong: she's empirically incorrect. There's no such thing as holding an infant too much, and it's good for them to learn that they'll promptly have their needs met by their primary caregiver, so OP is just wrong that picking up the baby when she cries is bad.
INFO - I’d also like to point out that OP has visited 5 times already: an average of once a week. Was she *invited* to visit any of these times? Or did she invite herself with the excuse of helping? And did she help or just want baby cuddles? I ask because she mentioned DIL looks annoyed every time.
>OP has visited 5 times already
This was the second biggest thing that jumped out to me, good Lord that baby is only 6 weeks old and this crazy wingnut has already visited 5 times?! Yikes. Absolutely yikes.
I feel so bad for DIL. She shouldn't have to be dealing with all that stress being this freshly post partum.
OP, YTA. Big time.
I could see someone coming over that many times- if and only if they were invited and actively doing something to help mom and baby (ex: laundry, cooking meals, looking after the eldest son, etc.). That’s just about the only reason you should be at a new parent’s house that frequently and even then, only if you’re INVITED! It sounds like OP invites herself over, hogs the baby, disrespects mom’s parenting, and is an unhelpful presence generally speaking.
YTA, OP. If you don’t get yourself together, you’re not going to have a relationship with any of these people for long.
She also didn’t say anything about spending time with the step-grandson “whom she also considers her grandbaby.”
Big “maybe in words but not in deeds” energy there.
Seriously! Showing up for the recently dethroned grandchild should be a welcome help! It really takes effort to get even this wrong, and yet, OP, you have.
And that advice—you can’t spoil a baby by holding them. That lets them know their needs will be met.—is more than 50 years old. It’s still the best advice.
Yes, exactly this. When I was pregnant, the classes I took and things I read said that if we compare to other animals, our babies really need another 3 months in the womb and you should be always carrying them if you can. And then as much as you can up to a year. And that you're supposed to let them stray away from you to build confidence, bravery, etc - you're not supposed to be the one to walk away. That's how apes do it, the parents are like home base.
You're right. Infants are quite literally unable to learn to self soothe if they don't form secure attachments. "Crying it out" as a parenting technique emotionally stunts people for life.
The thing is… the “you won’t get your way with me” was a passive aggressive message to the DIL. Simply because OP probably has an idea that 6w olds don’t completely comprehend the concept of mind games or even a speech or language.
Yes! I thought this. To a hormonal new mother that would be like a red rag to a bull! I remember my MiL making a comment about how I was listening to a podcast while expressing when my daughter was three weeks old. She said to my baby ‘we listen to children’s music don’t we?’ She’s was three weeks old!
This is it!! OP is YTA.
I'm a mother and grandmother, and a retired nurse who worked in OB.
Baby care and safety guidelines have changed over the years. I had to ask my DIL about modern guidelines for feeding, sleep and car safety, vaccines etc.
Most importantly, I followed their wishes. DH and I visited at the hospital with their permission, helped when asked, and we try to keep our opinions on child rearing to ourselves. It's hard, and we don't always succeed, but our relationship goes much more smoothly when we do.
OP needs to back off, and give space to the young family. And avoid unsolicited advice.
Little babies cry often when people who are not their mother pick them up, but OP is taking it personally. If she can back off, eventually baby will come to her. And if she can regain a positive relationship with her son and DIL.
Why give her a pass for holding the baby in a way *the baby* didn’t like? For some reason you said *in a way DIL doesn’t like* even though DIL said “she’s crying, obviously she doesn’t like that so stop” which we should believe. It’s *her* baby.
It’s kind of weird to me that despite how perfect this comment is you’re still assuming the mother doesn’t actually know her baby and is just acting out of animosity. If you figured out that OP is the problem, why assume DIL was just making things up about her baby’s preferences on how to be held?
It’s not hostility, she’s providing a voice for her baby that cannot yet speak.
I really like your comment as it's very well said. Regarding the "modern parents generally believe that parenting techniques have improved over the decades" I'd like to add some info - read till the end because that's pure facts.
I am born and raised in Germany. And most of us are very sensitive when it comes to WW2. There is a lot to unpack and reflect upon. And one of the topics that gets less attention is parenting. There was a famous German doctor named Johanna Haarer who wrote many books on parenting. And her work was and is popular in many countries. She cultivated the "don't let babys manipulate you so they get their way with you" "let them cry they will get used to it and it will get less". And why was that so beneficial? Because the army needed soldiers that were numb, hard and without empathy. Yeah older people don't like to hear that the parenting style was preferred for war but that's what it is. And now 2 generations later we have a lot of people going through therapy because their parents could never teach them how to cope with anxiety and negative emotions because they themself never learned to. And this younger generation is the first to be so open about therapy and not seeing it as "weak" or "failure". Those parenting techniques are quite harmful and it will take a lot more time to unpack that. Wanted to add that as most people are not aware of the historical context.
>described three things you did that are destined to antagonize her but you describe all of them as if they were completely fine: asking to be in t
This is perfectly said right here! Beautifully said.
I agree. OP doesn't seem like the MIL from hell or anything, but she's really focused on how much she gets to see/hold/bond with the baby and doesn't seem to care much about the DIL as a person at all. If I was her DIL I would feel like I'm being treated like nothing more than a vessel that exists to carry her son's precious child and I wouldn't want that kind of energy around.
If OP wants to be in the good books again, she should focus on the DIL's health and happiness. Offer to look after the 7yr old for a day, take him to the zoo so parents can have a bit of a break or something. There's lots OP can be doing that they aren't.
Wow well said! This hits every point! As a new mother myself I’ve definitely heard a lot of out of date and just downright dangerous advice from older generations but just ignore it. Luckily I live far away from my in-laws so they aren’t in my house telling me these things. I think the DIL is probably feeling undermined.
OP- PLEASE READ THIS ONE!! it’s well written with great advice and honesty.
Also, you should be proud of your son for standing my his wife when you tried to undermine her.
6tg thing OP did wrong was bring up what DIL did with her 1st child’s grandmother. We don’t know the extent of their relationship. Was other grandma an actual welcome addition or did DIL not know what we know now about boundaries.
YTA. Time to back off a bit, clearly. You should have NEVER ASKED to be in the delivery room. You then go on to be very dismissive about who she did invite. If you think you kept that attitude to yourself, know that you most certainly didn’t.
The ‘I don’t have to listen to your crying it out bullshit’ is VERY telling. You’ve obviously given much unsolicited and unwanted advice.
Let them make their own way. If they ask for advice or opinions, give it.
Asking for him to bring the baby alone is going to cut no ice with your son I’m GLAD to hear.
Read the room mom/ grandma.
Back. Off.
Respect that SHE IS THIS CHILD’S MOTHER.
My thought on the delivery room thing is that Jen may not have had much choice in that matter. There’s a reason she’s not with that child’s dad anymore.
But hey, I’m way more empathetic than OP, who seems to think a literal baby hates her on sight.
She also probably had to sacrifice her own choice of a support person because usually only 2 are allowed in so if the ex and the ex MIL were in, she prob has regrets that she didn't have, say, her own mother there, so she didn't want to repeat that. Just an example.
I also got the idea that with the previous delivery, ex-MIL was either forced on her, or something happened that made her not want any MILs present anymore.
Also, current MIL seems to be unaware of how often she pushes her beliefs.
It was also her first child. Could have been young parents and the ex-MIL represented a supportive presence.
In contrast, she has now been a mother for 7 years. She does not need you for her 2nd child birth. Honestly fuckin weird to ask lol
Or maybe Jen had a decent relationship with her ex-MIL and genuinely wanted her in the room. OP doesn't seem like someone who would support Jen's choices in labour either so makes sense she wouldn't be asked even if other people had been in the past.
I thought perhaps she *had* invited that MIL that time, but it didn't go like she thought/wanted. It was (presumably) her first labour and all was new. Now, with her second, she knew exactly what she did and didn't want.
YTA
So many things to unpack here.
1. You want to separate your 6 week year old granddaughter from her mother? What about feedings? Ever thing of that?
2. Did you ask if you could come to the hospital to visit or did you just show up? You sound bitter she wouldn't let you in the delivery room. Why would she? It's her choice, but you're upset by that choice.
3. You sound like you're holding the baby completely wrong and your criticizing how she's taking care of her kid.
It sounds like you are ruining your own chances because of your hostile behavior. It's pretty understandable why she is watchful of you. I bet there's ton more you have done but are leaving out.
Kinda telling when she mentioned the other grandma was there for the first time ans she has seen the baby 5 times in its 6 weeks of life...
Would love to read this from the daugter in laws point of view....it would be a completely different story...
I would LOVE to hear her perspective…
YTA.
Why don’t you text your son and DIL and tell them you seem to be behind on childcare info and can they send you some of the resources that talk about things like holding the baby, crying it out, or just generally will give you the info you need to show up for them and baby the way they would like.
Knowledge about child development and needs and what actually is good or bad for babies has grown leaps and bounds since we raised our kids so how we did it isn’t worth fighting for. And showing a willingness toto move past those ideas will do a lot to repair your relationship.
YTA for sure though. I feel like they must have told people they didn’t want visitors for the first few weeks and you’ve just “forgotten” to mention that…
Maybe instead of asking them to do that work for her on top of everything they have going on, she should say she is looking into more recent info, apologize for her behavior, and say she would love the opportunity to visit when they are ready to invite her.
The fact that she just had to be there when the other grandma was meeting her new grandchild was very telling, too. Can't let other grandma have time with her child and grandchild alone, gotta turn it into a competition! OP admitting her jealousy really exposed her motive there.
I think she showed up at the hospital without an invite and I think she’s shown up weekly since at their house without being invited too, that would have me utterly murderous without the shit she says about parenting personally.
Just because they have a child that’s related to you now doesn’t mean you get a free pass into their sanctuary, you wait to be invited in. You text your son and say I would love to meet my gandbaby but I will wait until you explicitly invite me so you both have time and space to get to grips with being parents. Not just barge in unannounced five or six times. When you do that Jen now feels like one - she has a guest to cater to and two - she has to give up her brand new baby so you get a go, and she doesn’t bloody want to.
Yep. OP needs to reflect on the reason why she wanted to be in the delivery room. Only family who care about the mother foremost should be in the room. If my MIL was allowed in the delivery room I would feel like nothing more than a surrogate. I know she wouldn't care about my well being, she would just want to be there so she gets first access to her son's kid. No one needs that energy at such a vulnerable time.
> I told him they were purposely ruining my chance at a relationship with my granddaughter
YTA
Nobody wants to listen to MIL tell them that they're doing motherhood all wrong, nevermind that there are countless ways. Nobody is "trying to ruin" a relationship but \*YOU\*.
This reads like you're extremely pushy with them. If anyone is ruining a relationship, it's you. I'm guessing that won't be your first self-fulfilling prophecy.
I’m actually gonna give you the benefit of the doubt for a quick second - but whilst also telling you YTA. Please read what I say because this is important.
1- most first time moms end up feeling they compromised things they wish they hadn’t (ex-MiL in the delivery room was probably one of those things. They don’t often make those mistakes a second time.
2- crying it out IS harmful. Even if it wasn’t, not your baby, not your choice - and the wording you used was undermining and passive aggressive as fuck!
3- you gave birth to your child/ren in a VERY different time. We know more now than we did then. Don’t come at anyone with your “survivor bias” bullshit, there IS a reason baby/child mortality rates are so much lower now.
4- this ISN’T your baby. You are not entitled to ANYTHING from your son, his partner or the baby.
5- from the way you wrote it, you didn’t ASK if you could go to the hospital, you knew the baby had been born and rocked the fuck up like an entitled asshole
I’m sure there is more I could pick apart, but I will leave you with this…….we don’t have to rely on our mothers/MiL’s like you think we do. You are a peripheral family member that can quickly become a cut-off one. You’re not feeding financing or fucking either of them, so your opinion holds no weight. If you want to be involved it will only be on their terms and no other, the baby is more likely picking up on YOUR hostility.
The ONLY redeeming thing I can say about anything you have written is that you either raised your son (or allowed him the space) to learn how to be a supportive partner. You are going to quickly learn you need to fix up or you will be put out in the cold.
If you want any chance at salvaging this you need to reflect and (if you actually mean it) make a full apology for overstepping. If it was because you are excited then say so, but mention it as a reason and not an excuse. ASK them both if there is anything you can do to help them, a meal service, dropping food on the porch, laundry you can pick up and deliver back (again, without going inside or disturbing them if that’s what they want), taking the oldest out for a few hours doing something they would want to do etc. Additionally, she may have come into the relationship with a child but they’re now a unit of 4, you either have two grandchildren there or none!
I’d like to add number 6: It sounds like she’s visited once a week since the baby was born. Has she been invited or simply shown up and demanded to see the baby?
Going by the rest of the post, I’m assuming the latter. Uninvited guests was one of the worst things I could imagine, when I had a newborn. Especially uninvited guests who give unsolicited (bad) advice, ignores the baby’s cues and doesn’t help out with anything around the house.
OP, YTA. Time to back way off, if you want to salvage your relationship with your son and his family.
DING DING DING DING DING. I really hope she reads all these but I take it from her tone that she's gonna read the first two YTA replies and walk away cause she couldn't possibly be in the wrong. "Respect your elders" after all, y'all. Grumble
YTA.
You create this problem by being an AH.
Seriously. Telling a newborn that they “won’t get their way with you and can’t play you” is absolutely pathetic.
And who tf cares if she picks her up for small noises? It’s literally been proven that you can’t spoil a newborn.
You damn well know you’re the problem. They’ve made that abundantly clear with what they’ve told you when you visited.
Stop acting like a victim. No one is buying a damn thing you’re saying.
When people do this: talk to a baby, a pet, an inanimate object, someone on the phone that can't be heard on the other end, in front of someone they WANT TO CORRECT, it's their passive aggressive way of telling them they are stupid, and their way is the only correct way, without directly saying it and challenging them to a fight. I hate that crap with a passion.
And a 6-week-old is still in their fourth trimester. They need to be held. Babies and moms need so much attention. It's hard. Also, I didn't read once where they went over and served the daughter-in-law. Or is she expected to host every single time she comes over once a week. Having a newborn is difficult. The "sleep when the baby is sleeping" is the stupidest piece of advice ever. If that's the case, then I'll do the dishes when the baby does the dishes, or I'll laundry when the baby does the laundry. It's hard work having a newborn.
When my mom came after I had my baby for 2 weeks, she allowed me to have nap time, helped with grocery shopping and cleaning, and then at the end of the day had some snuggle time with the baby. Her focus was on helping me rather than gushing over the baby.
I have stopped in 5 times since she had the baby.
YTA
Did you even ask if you could come in? New mothers DO NOT want people to just walk into their house,you do not hold a 6 week old on their belly,giving her advice she does not want as well is a no unless she asks for it.Did you even ask to come to the hospital or did you come along uninvited?
They are not purposely ruining your chances at knowing your granddaughter,you are!
This stuck out to me, too. It’s flu season, RSV is all over the place (at least in my area), and Covid is ramping up too, but here OP is just dropping in every week on a newborn and recovering mom. Great, I’m sure DIL loves that.
I once saw a doormat that said “Audacity: you showing up at my doorstep unannounced” and that’s all I can think of with these MIL posts. Just who does that?
You are absolutely! YTA to the max what the hell, lady?
It’s not about you! I don’t blame dil for not trusting you. You have zero respect for her as shown by slyly circumventing what you perceived would be her directive. Your expectation that your son would go behind her back is outrageous!
You have awful judgment.
And you don’t even know how to hold a baby!! You had the baby on its stomach? This is baby holding 101!
You helicopter her when you’re around. You must be an insufferable mil and that’s what baby is picking up on.
Get a clue.
YTA You are \*never\* entitled to see a baby without its mother. I think the parents are doing the right thing limiting your relationship with your grandchild if this is your approach.
YTA - Of course the baby cries every time you hold her... you are holding her wrong. I hope your little attempt at manipulating your son was worth the NC that I'm sure they will be enforcing on you. The fact that you think holding a baby is spoiling it or that a baby at weeks can manipulate and needs to cry it out makes me wonder how your son is the man he is.
YTA.
How about this, you ask to visit your son and fiance, and you say that you know there is tension and you aren't exactly sure why but you want to mend things. You mention the tension started when you asked to be in the delivery room and then visited at the hospital, so if you overstepped or did something rude, you want to understand and apologize and build a relationship.
Then, you listen to what they say. It's okay to ask to be in the delivery room, but did you really take her "no" in stride or did you say or do something at her response? Were you invited to show up at the hospital, or no? Find out their perspective and truly LISTEN. I'm not going to say you should apologize because we don't know their side, but even if it is just a misunderstanding, I would suggest being the "bigger person" and apologizing without any "buts" because fiance was the one going through a big life changing moment and so as someone a step removed, you can take on the brunt of whatever happened and truly apologize and ask for a fresh start.
Then, you should certainly apologize for giving unsolicited advice about their child, and tell them you just want to be supportive and helpful.
And then, you have to mean it. You seem totally in the dark about what you have done to create this hostility, and the longer it goes on- especially with you now wanting to separate a 6 week old from their mother- the worse it is going to get. So have an honest and kind conversation and remember it is better to be happy than to be right. Hear them out, apologize for your part, ask for clarity around things you don't understand, and move on in good faith.
YTA
The title is enough. She is their child first. That happens to make you her grandmother.
>I told her the baby was going to get used to being held all the time if she kept doing that
Unkind and rude.
Someone telling me that comforting my brand new baby is a bad thing would raise red flags with me immediately. I wouldn’t trust them to tend to my child when I’m not there cause they’d assume it would just spoil the child. I’m not surprised at all that DIL hovers around OP.
YTA. Talk about main character syndrome! She is perfectly allowed to say no to you being in the delivery room. It's up to her who she has there. She is the priority not you.
Ofc she is hovering! She's a new mum to a 6 week old. Have you forgotten what that was like? Where's your understanding? And then you criticise her for comforting a six week old? What's the big deal with a baby getting used to being held? It's a baby? Honestly that kind of nonsense is something I'd expect from a 1950's housewife! To then suggest that she is separated from her baby is prime AH and I'm shocked you thought that was okay!
YTA
I’d suggest checking out the “just no mil” subreddit to see :
How your DIL probably feels about you right now
Get a glimpse of what the future may hold for you.
If you are willing to work on the relationship, next time you’re there ask what you can do to help. Do they need groceries shopping, a home cooked meal, anything to take care of them ? And please don’t offer to hold the baby while your DIL does chores …
Kuddos to your son for calling your BS
Good lord. You wanted to be there for the birth, you get a visit at the hospital, plus you’ve gone over to visit another 5 times and the baby is only 6 weeks old! That’s literally a years worth of visits in 6 weeks.
You do not need to bond with a newborn. That is only for mum and dad. You have plenty of time to form a relationship with the child, it does not care who you are at the moment, it’s six weeks old.
Seriously. I’ve seen a few posts where usually the MIL is saying she doesn’t have a chance with a relationship with the baby, while the baby is still an infant. It’s like these people think that a person can’t develop a meaningful relationship with a child unless is starts at birth lol. Which is just insane to me.
Is this a joke or are you really this clueless about babies or people in general? No mom wants to sit hearing their baby cry while someone else tells that NEWBORN that they won’t get away with that. Get a grip!
YTA. You are extremely overbearing. It sounds like you stop in to see the baby without even checking with her to see if it is a good time. Even asking to be in the delivery room was out of line. If you keep it up, don't be surprised if you lose your son and your grandchild. This is the mother of your grandchild and soon to be wife of your son. Learn to play nice with her and YIELD to this woman. She is the queen of your son's home, not you.
YTA. Stop working against the mom and try to work WITH her. She has a new baby while also having to parent her other child. It’s a busy and stressful time. The most annoying thing as a mom with a new baby is to be told you’re doing something wrong. You are likely doing and saying things that is upsetting or off putting for Jen and making her uncomfortable. It may help to let this situation settle for a bit, then try to make amends with her so you guys can be more comfortable around each other. You need to respect how she and your son are choosing to parent.
YTA
1. He told you why they both have a problem with you but you aren’t listening.
2. Stop driving a wedge between your son and his fiancé. Leave them be.
3. The baby will get to know you in time if you back off and LISTEN to them.
4. Speak to a therapist about how your actions are being interpreted as old fashion and figure out how you can grow from this experience and become not a toxic bitter asshole.
YTA
its their baby, not yours. You do not have an inherit right to a relationship with your granddaughter.
The more reasonable way would be fixing the cause, i.e. finding out why your sons fiance acts the way she does. That would ease situations with all of you together, as well as making them more receptive to you taking care of her
\>>I said "you won't get your own way with me, you cant play me like that"
What a passive aggressive way of insulting your FDIL. Babies do not manipulate. Your advice is horrible. No wonder she doesn't want you around. I wouldn't either. The baby doesn't want you around either.
YTA. What is this bull about this being your only chance to build a relationship with your granddaughter? She's an infant! You absolutely should not have asked your son to bring the baby to you without her mom, when they have never been apart. You need to listen to him and his wife, and get with the program or you risk you worst fear, never getting to know Lily as much as you'd like to.
YTA.
This may come as a shock to you… but you are NOT that baby’s mother. You have no right to override what the actual mother wants for her child. You may disagree with how she is parenting but… too bad. Not your child, not your decision.
You might want to read over your own post… the reasons your future daughter in law might not (doesn’t) like or trust you are right there.
I’d highly suggest taking a long look at yourself and start changing your behavior and apologizing. Or you’re going to find yourself cut off (rightly so) from your son and grandchild.
YTA. It’s abundantly clear to everyone reading this post what the issue here is. Even in the way you constructed your narrative to try and get Reddit on your side, you still come off badly. I’m not sure if you’re genuinely not understanding the issue or if you just truly don’t care about your son’s family’s feelings, but either way you need to do some serious self reflection.
All the answers you need are right here in your post. Your son and his fiancée don’t like the way you interact with their baby and you ignore all their attempts at corrections or interventions. You believe you have the right to be present in the delivery room even through her own mother wasn’t present. You have “stopped in” to visit five times before she even had her mom meet the baby and I’m guessing you didn’t exactly wait for an invitation those five times. You constantly give instructions on how you think they should care for the baby instead of listening to how they tell you they want to. And the worst of all, rather than attempt to have an actual conversation with them about how to solve these issues, your first idea is to cut out your grandchild’s mother entirely and blame her 100%.
This is exactly the way the story goes when adult children cut off their parents. They’ve given you multiple reasons and explanations for how your behavior is harmful to them and you remain firmly convinced that you are the only person who can be correct. If you carry on down this path you’ll 100% lose the relationships you do have with your son’s family. If you *actually* want relationships with them you need to listen to them, reflect on your own behavior, and stop being so stubborn.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel like an AH because it's not my intention to piss Jen off by asking my son to bring my granddaughter to me but I feel like I will not develop a relationship with my granddaughter if she has anything to do with it.
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Your first mistake was asking to be in the delivery room. It was a horrendously inappropriate question and now she rightfully has her back up. As for the request in question, YTA. Mom and baby are a package deal.
YTA. Apologize to her for your behavior. Stop behaving that way. Stop pretending you don’t know why. Stop trying to come between her and your son. Stop playing the victim card.
You don’t have to agree with how she does things but you do have to keep your mouth shut and accept and support her way.
You got to raise your baby. It’s her turn.
OMG. YTA. Do you really think a newborn is manipulative and can pick up on a vibe?
Just stop. You are being ridiculous and no wonder mom does not want you around her baby. I don’t know how you raised your son but do a little reading on infant development because you are clueless.
YTA - You sound awful.
No one wants to listen to a MIL criticising their parenting. You're not helpful. Be careful or they'll just cut you loose permanently.
> I told her the baby was going to get used to being held all the time if she kept doing that
And then what? The baby might learn that she can depend on her parents? Might feel secure in the knowledge that she’s loved and safe? The horror!
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You don't know why she dislikes you? You never heard anyone saying you were pushing your beliefs before? Really? Because I've been reading this for 30 seconds and I know exactly why she dislikes you, and it's because you are pushing your beliefs on her. YTA. You are making this whole situation about you. Let them be a family together. Let them set the rules for how the baby is cared for, unless they are doing something objectively dangerous. ("You might spoil the baby if you pick her up" is not objectively dangerous.) Let go of how you were deprived of what you seem to think is your right to be present at one of the most vulnerable moments of her life. You can't ruin a relationship with a 6 week old baby. But you're well on your way to ruining the relationships with your son and daughter in law. Back way, way off if you ever hope to be welcome in their lives.
I would be unsurprised if OP is also the type who thinks she’s helping when she’s doing what she wants and not what’s needed. I felt second hand embarrassment just reading this post. How embarrassing to be so out of touch and pushing parenting practices that have been shown to be harmful.
Did you catch that she "stops in"? It sounds like she's not invited and she's showing up without notice to a house with a *newborn*!!!
the fact that it was her own mother's first time meeting the baby suggests that everyone else kept their distance for a bit and here she's been 5 times.
But she gave them space for 20 whole minutes!! (before, presumably, stepping right back in again with the bullshit). YTA, OP. This whole post is the very embodiment of [missing missing reasons.](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
I thought the same thing about the missing missing reasons. Except OP lists many reasons in her post, but doesn't see how what she says and does is so disturbing and hurtful. OP, YTA.
The whole "scolding baby for crying with a soothing baby voice" had me so cringe.
YTA as soon as a MIL thinks she has right to be in delivery room with DIL. it is impossible to hold a baby too much.
Just think of what she is doing and what is missing when she is posting her perspective in the best possible light - and those are bad.
You know it’s cringe when you’re reading the person’s own perspective and it still makes you want to scream like the baby that doesn’t want to be held… by her…
Op doesn't see any of the reasons DIL has given her as valid reasons. "wHaT DiD I dO?"
Info missing from OPs post: - showed up at hospital - did she ask to visit? Did she ask when she can visit? Or did she just rock up - been over 5 times to see the family - again, did she ask the new parents when she could come around? If it was ok? Did she bring them a home cooked meal, do chores, give the 7yo some grandma love and attention? Did she ask new parents (especially recovering mum) if they needed any help? Did she check in on how mum is recovering or just rock up to have baby snuggles?
This needs to be the top comment. YTA op. You’re poor DIL
Thank you for that link. It was really interesting. I’m doing lots of work on my childhood right now and it helped clarify the difference in viewpoints and recollections.
Five times in FOUR WEEKS. She’s obviously not respecting the space of the household!
5 TIMES IN 6 WEEKS! Even if I didn’t have a newborn this would be too much
Yes! OP is so cringey….stops into the hospital, keeps stopping by the house, only to insist that the baby cries….what is the purpose for the random visits? How is OP helping the new mom?!? She’s not, obviously, because OP has to be the center of attention.
Did you catch the ‘apparently’ though? — ‘apparently it was her mother’s first time meeting the baby’… this MIL is a piece of work.
Oh yeah, you KNOW she didn't even bother to call ahead to see if it was OK. I wonder how often, before and after pregnancy, MIL just drops by without asking first. THAT was the first thing I picked up on after the actual wanting to be in the delivery room for the birth. This woman is mad pushy and stomping on boundaries. Hey OP QUESTION: When YOU gave birth would YOU have wanted your MIL there? Like really? Why do I have the feeling that would be a resounding no. YTA
YTA.
5 times in SIX WEEKS. If my in-laws did that, even without a baby, I would be pissed. Like damn, leave me alone!
this is the bit that got me! the mum's mum always meets the baby first if they have a good relationship so the fact OP has been barging in while the MOTHER OF THE CHILD'S own mother has respected her request for space .... WOW Obviously the entire post show's how deluded OP is but that bit is what really made my eyes bug out of my head
Yeah it's normal to keep guests away for the first 6 weeks so baby can build up an immune system. Looks like we know who ignored that request.
Exactly. OP, did she know you were coming to the hospital? Have your weekly visits been unannounced? You need to respect that she's not going to make a six week old baby cry it out. Comments about an infant manipulating people with tears? That's just shitty. It's a baby. It's gonna act like a baby. It needs what babies need - comfort. It sounds like the baby doesn't like how you hold it, which is probably why all the screaming happens. Chill. You're causing this issue not her and not your son and certainly not the baby. It's you.
Yes to all of this. Like, OP being like "This tiny infant is probably picking up on the hostility and that's why she screams at me" made me roll my eyes a lot. At her age, she can see about 12 inches in front of her face, which means, she probably can't see her mother hating OP for butting in. Also, this is OP's story and she's trying to make us side with her as much as possible, and she's already included 2 instances of assuming this literal infant can read situations or feelings: the baby picking up on the hostility, and claiming the baby is trying to manipulate her. What other stories has she left out where she's made weird-ass claims about this apparently incredibly advanced infant?
Because DIL and baby deserve their own agency too. OP is treating them as if her role as grandmother is more important the DIL being the mom to her own child. That comment - even if it was meant to be jokey baby talk, reveals a style of dealing w kids that we are moving away from quickly, bc it isn't good for them. "Oh baby, I'm sorry I can't figure out how to old you so you're comfy, here, go back your momma who is your mothersihip." Even baby talk it's important to be in sync w parenting style. Also glossing over that the baby is never hppy or resting when OP is holding her. It screams of OP handling things the way SHE thinks they should be & not giving agency to the to the baby. The baby is fussing and crying bc the baby isn't confortable. OP has to stop pushing everything and really pay attentin to what the baby wants. DIL is likely upset because everytime OP barges in she winds the baby up. Then leaves, leaving DIL to clean up the mess of fussy baby.
Oh that comment was an insult to the DL, make no mistake about it.
Honestly if the baby was picking up hostility sounds like it was for a good reason
My mom told me something similar with my daughter. She kept telling me that if I kept holding my daughter she would get used to it. I finally asked why that would be bad. She had no answer.
With my daughter I would often let her fall asleep in my arms when she was a toddler having the afternoon nap. She’s 18 now and an only child but is definitely not spoilt. Babies and children need love
And I'll bet any money she now moves through the world with confidence knowing that she can always turn to you for support and guidance. Thank you for giving her all that love. ❤️
One of my kids had a terrible nightmare last night and slept in my bed from 1:30 on. They're 5. Ideal? No not for anyone! But it won't last, and more importantly - she needed to feel safe. Sometime once told me how much they loathe hearing about children being spoilt by having their needs met. Your toddler falling asleep in your arms. My kid needing night-long comfort. Those are needs. It's not spoiling to meet needs.
The best reply to the “you’re spoiling them” comment is “spoiling happens when something is left alone and forgotten, like food in the back of a kitchen cabinet. My children will not be spoiled.”
With my first, people told me that. I finally was like, “This kid just spent 10 months *inside* me. Of course she wants to be next to me and for me to hold her! And one day she’ll ignore me and act like I’m embarrassing her, so I’m going to take all the snuggles and love while I can!” That usually shut them up!
When my son was TWO DAYS OLD he cried and I picked him up and my dad said "oh look, he's got you trained already!" His visit didn't last long.
All kids need to learn independence, but it feels weird to me that OP is trying to both ascribe and teach independence to a literal infant who is wholly and completely unable to directly articulate her needs or do anything by herself. Let the baby be a baby! You can't spoil a baby, and a baby cannot manipulate you. Their brains aren't that developed yet! The only thing OP's son's fiancee is doing by picking the baby up whenever she fusses is making sure the baby has a secure attachment to her, which will help the baby's eventual transition to independence as she gets older. ETA: I also can't help but wonder if Jenny's change in attitude toward OP during her pregnancy might be because OP made a habit of offering unsolicited opinions?
She’s stopped in 5 times in 6 weeks?! She’s probably still bleeding, give her a break!
I was this mom close to 23 years ago and snapped. Not ok people. Not. Ok.
Same. My husband's grandmother was saying some cutting (everything she said was) and I finally said "you had your turn raising kids. Can I have mine?" and it was my husband's suggestion every time we went low contact. I sure as heck wasn't going to say no.
I have no kids at all, much less a newborn, and I can count on one hand the people I'd want to have come to my house 5 times in 6 weeks.
Oh I zoomed right in on that. Dropping by unannounced five times is every new mothers dream. But as soon as I read “When I asked if I could be in the room with her during delivery and she clipped no” I knew what type of MIL she was and she didn’t disappoint lol. Like who ask to be in the room for starters?!!! And then who gets huffy when they can’t? Also….the unsolicited parenting advice. We can just here are the judgment in her voice like “when she picks up the baby every time it makes a noise”. I mean the baby isn’t sensing Moms “hostility”. The baby is picking up on the MIL toxic, controlling and intrusive vibe. And as a sidenote but its significant. She’s not a first time Mom who needs MIL judgmental advice.
I saw an IG real about the entitled MiL's who want to be in the delivery room. The woman said that giving birth is not a spectator sport, nor should family members treat it as such. Also the way those members phrase it also matters. "The birth of my grandbaby" which means you are completely discounting and ignoring the traumatic events the mother is going through as if she's an afterthought. The family who balk at not being allowed in the delivery room give me the ick of the everything. Just everything.
And got huffy about not being allowed in delivery because fiancée had somebody in the delivery room 7 years PRIOR, when she had her 1st (and probably decided afterward, it wasn't a great idea-for her).
My MIL told me “I have decided I’m going to be in the delivery room” how about hell no
Five times in six weeks, no less!
Wait a minute! She let the new mom host Thanksgiving Dinner 6 wks postpartum!! OP YTA for that alone
Six, if you count the hospital. Based on OP's post, it's probably 2-3x that, but it "doesn't count" if she gets less than 20 minutes with the baby.
The kids 6 weeks old and she's "stopped in" 5 times already, that means she waited 1 weeks to stop in and visit lol 🤦♂️
Nah, week one she "stopped in" at the hospital. If OP is real, she's gonna find the door stops opening for her "stopovers" very soon.
This. I know OP *might* mean well, but that's incredibly intrusive, especially if unannounced. If it's not OP's home and not OP's baby, ASK FIRST. "It's my grandchild" does NOT mean they're entitled to anything. If OP wants to have a role in that child's life at all, they need to back off.
Oh dear god, spare me from people who “mean well”.
I caught the same! Grandma is def coming over unannounced and ringing the doorbell 🙄
Yeah, I almost didn’t finish reading because of how oblivious OP is.
OP shows up at both the hospital and their home without an invite and doesn't understand why the DIL doesn't like her anymore? How clueless can she be?
Plus she wanted to push in on the birth?? Just bc it's OP's grandchild does NOT mean OP is entitled to see their DIL's private parts. Or to be a part of that child's life if they don't back off.
I wonder if the daughter ever liked her or just grit her teeth through all of the other inappropriate forced interactions. Now with a baby she’s a fierce mama bear with no more Fs to give. YTA to the nth degree!
ngl, I did stop reading halfway through the long last paragraph and just came to see how intense the “YTA”s were.
Yep. I stopped reading halfway as she’s a nut job if she doesn’t realise she’s TAH.
I knew the answer when I read the title. I still read the post, but I was correct. Chill out OP, no contact is real and thing and it's about to get really real for you. YTA
I bet when they go no contact, OP will definitely be over at r/legaladvice trying to figure out how to sue for grandparents' rights over a six week old baby. YTA, OP, and it is just so entitled and deeply telling that you feel so threatened by a mother making sure her child is comfortable that you need to forcibly split them up by banning her mother from your home. Really says that your priorities are all about you and not at all about whether the baby is okay.
It’s such a stereotypical “bad mil new baby story “ that I almost don’t believe it’s real….
I’m of the same generation as OP, even I know it’s an outdated practice. OP should know too. Secure attachment is vital for a newborn and their emotional development. That’s what DIL is doing and I’m loving it.
The fact that she keeps holding the baby on its belly across her knees or arm. She doesn't even cuddle baby by the sound of it . Would love OP daughter in law to write on here.
>I would be unsurprised if OP is also the type who thinks she’s helping when she’s doing what she wants and not what’s needed. That's a perfect description of something I've been struggling to put into words for a long time.
I hate the point of view that holding a baby will spoil them. They are babies! No wonder the OP is not allowed near the baby
Legit this. That babe is in the 4th trimester and not just to say the baby is playing them but to go as far as to demand the son separate the newborn from their mother just for OP's benefit. Okay so mama is gonna have to prob pump a bunch and she best hope that baby accepts a bottle at that. Then she has to worry while baby is gone. Lots aren't ready for separation like that just yet. (EDITED TO ADD PREFACE THE NEXT PARAGRAPH. As I totally see how it can seem I was generalizing but wasn't my intent, I should have elaborated. I do not mean ALL Americans. I mean old generations/higher ups who don't see the pressure and differences of raising young in this day and age with research and medical advancements. We know better now... but those who raised kids when we put them to bed at 7pm and never looked back, crying or not, see it as no big deal...) It's so American to think "meh it's okay" cause ya'll are forced back to work so fast which is another topic in itself but it isn't right. It isn't natural.
You’re absolutely right, but please know American’s are not “meh it’s okay” about mothers going back to work after so few weeks. Every woman I know that has had a child feels extreme anxiety about those first drop offs to daycare and usually cry on their way to work. It’s fucking awful but unfortunately our elected officials don’t give a fuck.
I’m pregnant with my first child, a child I thought I would never have due to PCOS. I am dreading returning to work when she is so young and wish the US did better about maternity leave.
I'm so sorry they don't do better for you all. It's so deserved yet it's 2023 and ya'll are often forced back into it then have to pump hours of the day along with work. THEN go home and do house chores on top of that full time job and infant. I just cannot fathom.
And you can't count pumping as part of your workday unless you multitask. 🙃 And it's fairly recent that law endured a "private place to pump" wasn't a bathroom or broom closet.
I am writing this as my newborn is sleeping on my chest I hate this notion of “spoiling a newborn” through holding them. My baby as of a couple of weeks ago only knew life inside of me. He is now having to figure out life on the outside, and I can only imagine how fucking terrifying that is. Suddenly he can get too cold or hot, his stomach can hurt, he is experiencing sounds and images he never has before. It is not spoiling a baby to comfort them I’m sure OP thinks she’s being cute with her comments, but it isn’t cute when you’re still a hormone filled monster looking at your sleepy potato and ready to fight off anyone who so much looks at them the wrong way. Even my own mother I looked at her like she was fucking Myra hindley everytime she picked up my (then only) one week old son Finally, I have it on good authority from my health visitor that newborns literally don’t have the sentience to “manipulate” caregivers. They cry when they are distressed. It is that simple. It is for the caregiver to comfort them, not ignore them to try and toughen them up
You snuggle that baby extra tight tonight! My MIL said that she’d get used to being picked up every time she cried (AT TEN DAYS OLD!) Damn right she will - why on earth would you not respond to someone who’s only form of communication is to cry! Of course I’m going to pick her up when she cries, she’s a potato with no concept of ‘manipulation’ and had been outside for 1/28th of the time that she’d been inside me so yes, she will be comforted and loved on if she cries!
Yup that’s exactly how babies get their needs met! Crying. And when they don’t get their needs met they can develop an anxious attachment style which will carry through every relationship they hever have throughout their lives. So yeah, pick up that crying baby. Snuggle em. Let that baby know you’re there for him or her. Such a weird thought to deprive a baby of love and cuddles when they’re crying
It’s such an odd concept “don’t let them think you’ll provide comfort every time they need it”… if my husband was upset I’d comfort him too, I wouldn’t say “deal with it I’m not helping everytime”. Of course babies want to be picked up and held close, they are so very vulnerable. (Not all babies Obv. But most!)
SPOIL THEM! Life is too short and too unpredictable to withhold love and affection. I say this as my 4th grader has declared I cannot kiss him OR use my nickname for him in public.
I have no kids of my own so I tend to spoil my sisters kids and spend a lot of time with them. It hit harder than I thought when my niece (now 11 soon to be 16 :) no longer runs up to me and gives a soul crushing hug when I come over to visit like she did when she was 7-8ish. Now it's just a smile and hey uncle X. We're still close but you know, it's not the same.
They come back around. My 23year old niece came up to snuggle with me on the couch like she did when she was little last year. I'm the cool aunt again!
I agree. And it's impossible to spoil a child under one. They don't understand that they are separate beings from their mother. They need to know that they are safe and that their needs will be met. Otherwise, the world becomes a scary place and you get kids with attachment issues.
Also when you hold your baby and comfort them when they're crying they're more likely to be a HAPPY baby, not a spoiled one, because they can trust their needs will be met by their parents.
Yes, Grandma could benefit from some early childhood development classes, if she would actually listen.
How dare that baby be spoiled with love, warmth and affection!! YTA- if I’ve learned anything, you don’t offer parenting advice unless asked. I don’t care if you birthed out a litter and have “experience”! No one appreciated being told their doing something incorrectly (I mean, unless truly unsafe obviously)
Right! And it's not even true! My baby was held a 90% of the time unless she was sleeping or doing floor time. Once she was able to move she hasn't wanted to picked up since. Just now she is wanting to be held again but she just turned one and can ask lol
>I hate the point of view that holding a baby will spoil them. They are babies! No wonder the OP is not allowed near the baby If we still had awards, I would give you one. The child development experts strongly agree with you.
I predict next post from OP will be asking about grandparent rights
Should we tell them now or wait til that post appears?
Or the next post will be the DIL telling the whole story.
OP also "stopped by?" Were you invited or did you just show up? If you have stopped in 5 times but she hasn't even had her own mother over, I imagine she was trying to limit who is around the baby and exposing her to Covid/RSV/illness during the height of the season. It doesn't sound like you're asking anything and making a lot of assumptions about your place. So to do that and then also criticize her parenting makes YTA.
5 times in nearly as many weeks. DIL has probably barely even slept between your visits. How can they miss you if you are always popping in?
The best "pop in" visit I had after my first was my pastor and his wife, who had 5 kids. They knocked, handed bags of frozen meals and freshly baked zucchini loaf through the door, said congrats and then left!
The line "crying it out bullshit" told me everything. My MIL once suggested I follow her example of putting my baby in his stroller and leaving him out of earshot down the bottom of our garden, because that's how she taught her kids not to be needy. Right then I knew no parenting advice coming from her was ever going to be taken on board. Luckily she never again shared her wisdom. I think my husband might have had a word with her. He was disgusted, and told me afterwards it explained so much. OP YTA.
Science has given us the data we need on how "cry it out" parenting is not healthy. Everything about her post screams AH. She's lucky the fiance is down for visiting with the baby at all. If I was the son, I might tell her that it isn't a good idea to visit with the baby yet, just for disrespecting my partner. Edit: Corrected typo
My parents did cry it out parenting except for they continued it as I grew older which basically meant if I was upset about something they would ignore me and pretend I didn't exist even when I was asking for help or to talk. If I was upset, that meant I had to deal with it on my own. Guess who has a fearful-avoidant/disorganized attachment style?
That's how I ended up with overcontrolled emotions. I don't even laugh at funny movies or express happiness, I became so unwilling to express myself that I bottle everything up inside and it manifests as intense physical tension, so every emotion I experience comes with the sensation of muscle pain and nausea. I'm working on it, but damn if the effects of being emotionally neglected for the first half of my life don't run deep into the core of my personhood.
I’ve read enough JNMIL to see the signs. Wanted in the delivery room. Was she invited to the hospital or did she just show up? Same question for visiting the house. Does she help in any meaningful way when at the house? Etc.
Does she even ask to come for a visit or just show up and expect them to let her in because she MaDe ThE TrIp?
Yeah, this post has a lot of "the missing missing reasons" vibe. The only person who finds the DIL's reaction inexplicable is the OP.
I was going to ask that - does ‘stopping by’ mean asking when a good time to visit would be, abiding by that, and leaving after 20-30 minutes, or does it mean arriving with no notice, demanding to hold the baby and not leaving for hours?
ETA: Blerg. I read it wrong. The comparison was apt. But still, her delivery room, her choice. Not even dad gets a say. And she equated herself in the delivery room with the first BD. To be so clueless as to not see the difference speaks volumes about this woman.
She said the first baby daddy’s mom not the first baby daddy.
She went to their home five times; think she was actually invited over or just showed up unannounced? Yeah, me too.
I’m guessing OP said some dumbass shit to the fiancé that she’s either purposely leaving out or doesn’t even think it was a big deal. Probably commented on what the fiancé was eating or otherwise criticized her on some aspect of her pregnancy. My MIL wanted to be in the room and I was like oh hell no. She was very upset when I didn’t want them to come out to even be at the hospital and it was because I didn’t want the stress of her BS around while I was in my most vulnerable time. And of course she had a fit about it and I had to email her asking why it was a problem to come out shortly after the baby was born. OP YTA. I’m positive you’ve said some way worse shit than what you’re letting on. And you can’t fucking spoil a baby with affection. There are studies upon studies about how important touch is during childhood. Babies literally need their mother to survive and crying is the only way a newborn can communicate that! Very glad your son gave you a solid hell no to bringing the baby over without his fiancé. Who asks something like that?! Oh right, your entitled ass.
I read a bunch of posts by new mom's about their MIL being pushy about wanting to be in the delivery room and showing up at the hospital when they were told not to, and just not listening to their boundaries etc. I guess this is the post from the MIL side, lol. Definitely YTA.
When OP said she'd been there five times since the birth, I had to stop and scroll back up to check how old the baby was. Trying to visit every single week is incredibly overbearing, especially when you're picking fights with the mother instead of cleaning or offering to cook/bring them food. YTA, OP
Oh, it’s much, much worse than just visiting five times. She “stopped by” 5 times. Which I can guarantee you means that she wasn’t invited, she just rocked up on their doorstep when it was convenient for her and expected DIL to play host while OP entertains herself with the baby, likely disrupting any attempt to settle baby into a routine in the process.
This and I am curious— Why on earth would a woman want her mother in law in the room while giving birth? It’s a personal, private moment to have my personal area exposed to the world and another woman wants to stare it down? I was a foster child at 16 and my foster mother wanted me in the room while she had her daughter. While the arrival and birth were emotional for all- I could seriously have done without seeing it all in up close detail! Is this really a thing. ?? Maybe it’s just me…. Wait for the baby to be checked out, cleaned up, the mother to be put back together a little. I mean, I feel it’s a private thing between the parents. Not a spectator sport. I am probably wrong here. And if so, Mia culpa!
No, you’re 100% right, to the point where many L&D nurses wind up serving as bouncers because of this bananas trend of overbearing family members trying to barge in, which obviously would inhibit labor and can lead to a much worse outcome for mother & baby.
YTA. OP, they have a six week old baby. This is the time for the mother and father to bond with their child. You don't just drop by to their home all the time. Everything I read is about how you get to spend time with the baby, ignoring weather or not this is good for the baby and DIL. If you truly wanted to help you'd take work out of their hands since DIL is recovering from giving birth and they're sleep deprived. Take the 7yo for the day, offer to help with chores...
💯. OP, YTA. Have you tried asking your son what needs to change, apologizing to your DIL, and changing your behavior? FWIW, I actively disliked my MIL during my pregnancy/newborn period due to some of her actions in the months prior. She gave us space, respected our boundaries, and loved my kid which thawed my feelings towards her. We now have a good relationship because she is incredible and supportive of my family and my kids and we’re lucky to have her in our lives. I know that she felt some type of way with our first about not getting enough time with our newborn. We needed our space and her seeing our newborn once a month didn’t ruin their relationship. My kids stay the night at her house once a month and they have a beautiful relationship, but if she’d acted like you are acting things would be very different.
Wanted to add maybe Op could apologize and just say I realized I was overstepping I'm going back off and I would like for us to start fresh. Because if the fiance is expecting op to sprout out stuff to her at any minute, she's still not going to relax and rebuild that relationship. So you have to admit it; you have to apologize and you have to move on without butting in unless there is actual danger to the baby as waa previously said.
Omg agree. YTA and you’re insane to try to separate a new baby from her mom early postpartum like that! She’s could be breastfeeding or have a specific way to take formula. Very selfish!!!
It’s funny because reading this I was all set to say now way is she TA. Then I got to read your comment and all sorts of lights flipped on and I realized that I was just feeling bad for her and not seeing the big picture. You should not let a newborn cry and not pick them up!! Not the issue really. The issue is she is the mother and what she says goes…period! Maybe there was a reason she wanted some people with her while delivering her baby and not others. Does matter because she’s the one having a baby! Step back and let them breathe! You’ve visited 5 times. That seems like a lot to me. Especially when you’re dealing with a newborn. I didn’t want anyone around frankly!!! So yeah YTA
YTA, sorry. Telling your future DIL that she shouldn't hold the baby all the time because "the baby is going to get used to it" incorporated three errors, and it seems like you didn't notice any of them. So I would guess that you have done a lot of other problematic things you haven't noticed and this is raising your future DIL's hackles. The first error you made in that one instance was, you criticized her parenting. Never criticize a child-in-law's parenting unless it's a matter of life and death. The second error you made was that you used "I'm older and know better" logic to contradict her. That never goes down well because it comes across as controlling - but also, modern parents generally believe that parenting techniques have improved over the decades, so your "old fashioned" advice is going to be assumed to be wrong. You might as well tell her not to use a carseat, that's how credible she will take your 30-years-old parenting advice to be. The third error you made, and possibly the worst, is that you treated her like she has no idea how to be a mom when she actually already has a 7 year old. This isn't her first time around the block, and you ignoring that, will be taken, correctly, to be demeaning. You've already described three things you did that are destined to antagonize her but you describe all of them as if they were completely fine: asking to be in the delivery room (you're supposed to wait to be invited, and, if not invited, you say nothing), telling the baby "You won't get your own way with me" (which, maybe was just said jokingly, but in context of your other mistakes, maybe not), and telling her she shouldn't hold the baby all the time. I'll give you a pass on holding the baby a way your DIL didn't like. As long as you weren't doing anything actively dangerous, I think your DIL should not treat you like you're an idiot who has never held a baby before. That is hostile and controlling on her part. However you'll get nowhere confronting her about it, if something like that happens again, the person you should speak to is your son. The best way to interact with your DIL is not to tear down her choices but to build her up. "I love how much you play with the baby, you're a really good mom." "I love how you've encouraged your son to be such an attentive big brother." Help out where you can, but ask first: "Would you like me to make you a quick lunch while you feed the baby? What would you like?" "Would you like me to read a story to \[older child\] while you put Rosa down for a nap?" I think you did correctly by addressing your concerns to your son rather than your future DIL but asking him to bring the baby without his fiance was not the right way to go about it. I think it was fine for you to say you felt unwelcome and that your DIL behaves in a hostile manner towards you, but probably would have been better if you had followed that with something like, "What can I do to make this better?" I totally feel for you. I'm a mom with no daughters, only sons. Although I've made HUGE efforts to include my in-laws in my children's lives, I definitely see that most mothers don't make the same effort and some are pretty active about centering all their activities on their own parents and excluding their husband's parents. So I could easily be in your situation in future. At the same time, I also see the ways my MIL and FIL, albeit nice people, have undermined me and demeaned me in their zeal to be The Authority Over Our Grandkids And Center of All Things, and I can totally understand how life-sucking that is for a DIL.
There's a fourth thing she did wrong: she's empirically incorrect. There's no such thing as holding an infant too much, and it's good for them to learn that they'll promptly have their needs met by their primary caregiver, so OP is just wrong that picking up the baby when she cries is bad.
INFO - I’d also like to point out that OP has visited 5 times already: an average of once a week. Was she *invited* to visit any of these times? Or did she invite herself with the excuse of helping? And did she help or just want baby cuddles? I ask because she mentioned DIL looks annoyed every time.
>OP has visited 5 times already This was the second biggest thing that jumped out to me, good Lord that baby is only 6 weeks old and this crazy wingnut has already visited 5 times?! Yikes. Absolutely yikes. I feel so bad for DIL. She shouldn't have to be dealing with all that stress being this freshly post partum. OP, YTA. Big time.
I could see someone coming over that many times- if and only if they were invited and actively doing something to help mom and baby (ex: laundry, cooking meals, looking after the eldest son, etc.). That’s just about the only reason you should be at a new parent’s house that frequently and even then, only if you’re INVITED! It sounds like OP invites herself over, hogs the baby, disrespects mom’s parenting, and is an unhelpful presence generally speaking. YTA, OP. If you don’t get yourself together, you’re not going to have a relationship with any of these people for long.
She also didn’t say anything about spending time with the step-grandson “whom she also considers her grandbaby.” Big “maybe in words but not in deeds” energy there.
Seriously! Showing up for the recently dethroned grandchild should be a welcome help! It really takes effort to get even this wrong, and yet, OP, you have.
And that advice—you can’t spoil a baby by holding them. That lets them know their needs will be met.—is more than 50 years old. It’s still the best advice.
Wait until OP learns that in many cultures it’s normal practice not just to hold your baby but wear your baby for most of the day.
Yes, exactly this. When I was pregnant, the classes I took and things I read said that if we compare to other animals, our babies really need another 3 months in the womb and you should be always carrying them if you can. And then as much as you can up to a year. And that you're supposed to let them stray away from you to build confidence, bravery, etc - you're not supposed to be the one to walk away. That's how apes do it, the parents are like home base.
You're right. Infants are quite literally unable to learn to self soothe if they don't form secure attachments. "Crying it out" as a parenting technique emotionally stunts people for life.
The thing is… the “you won’t get your way with me” was a passive aggressive message to the DIL. Simply because OP probably has an idea that 6w olds don’t completely comprehend the concept of mind games or even a speech or language.
Yes! I thought this. To a hormonal new mother that would be like a red rag to a bull! I remember my MiL making a comment about how I was listening to a podcast while expressing when my daughter was three weeks old. She said to my baby ‘we listen to children’s music don’t we?’ She’s was three weeks old!
Underrated insight ^^
This is it!! OP is YTA. I'm a mother and grandmother, and a retired nurse who worked in OB. Baby care and safety guidelines have changed over the years. I had to ask my DIL about modern guidelines for feeding, sleep and car safety, vaccines etc. Most importantly, I followed their wishes. DH and I visited at the hospital with their permission, helped when asked, and we try to keep our opinions on child rearing to ourselves. It's hard, and we don't always succeed, but our relationship goes much more smoothly when we do. OP needs to back off, and give space to the young family. And avoid unsolicited advice. Little babies cry often when people who are not their mother pick them up, but OP is taking it personally. If she can back off, eventually baby will come to her. And if she can regain a positive relationship with her son and DIL.
Why give her a pass for holding the baby in a way *the baby* didn’t like? For some reason you said *in a way DIL doesn’t like* even though DIL said “she’s crying, obviously she doesn’t like that so stop” which we should believe. It’s *her* baby. It’s kind of weird to me that despite how perfect this comment is you’re still assuming the mother doesn’t actually know her baby and is just acting out of animosity. If you figured out that OP is the problem, why assume DIL was just making things up about her baby’s preferences on how to be held? It’s not hostility, she’s providing a voice for her baby that cannot yet speak.
I really like your comment as it's very well said. Regarding the "modern parents generally believe that parenting techniques have improved over the decades" I'd like to add some info - read till the end because that's pure facts. I am born and raised in Germany. And most of us are very sensitive when it comes to WW2. There is a lot to unpack and reflect upon. And one of the topics that gets less attention is parenting. There was a famous German doctor named Johanna Haarer who wrote many books on parenting. And her work was and is popular in many countries. She cultivated the "don't let babys manipulate you so they get their way with you" "let them cry they will get used to it and it will get less". And why was that so beneficial? Because the army needed soldiers that were numb, hard and without empathy. Yeah older people don't like to hear that the parenting style was preferred for war but that's what it is. And now 2 generations later we have a lot of people going through therapy because their parents could never teach them how to cope with anxiety and negative emotions because they themself never learned to. And this younger generation is the first to be so open about therapy and not seeing it as "weak" or "failure". Those parenting techniques are quite harmful and it will take a lot more time to unpack that. Wanted to add that as most people are not aware of the historical context.
>described three things you did that are destined to antagonize her but you describe all of them as if they were completely fine: asking to be in t This is perfectly said right here! Beautifully said.
I agree. OP doesn't seem like the MIL from hell or anything, but she's really focused on how much she gets to see/hold/bond with the baby and doesn't seem to care much about the DIL as a person at all. If I was her DIL I would feel like I'm being treated like nothing more than a vessel that exists to carry her son's precious child and I wouldn't want that kind of energy around. If OP wants to be in the good books again, she should focus on the DIL's health and happiness. Offer to look after the 7yr old for a day, take him to the zoo so parents can have a bit of a break or something. There's lots OP can be doing that they aren't.
Wow well said! This hits every point! As a new mother myself I’ve definitely heard a lot of out of date and just downright dangerous advice from older generations but just ignore it. Luckily I live far away from my in-laws so they aren’t in my house telling me these things. I think the DIL is probably feeling undermined.
OP- PLEASE READ THIS ONE!! it’s well written with great advice and honesty. Also, you should be proud of your son for standing my his wife when you tried to undermine her.
6tg thing OP did wrong was bring up what DIL did with her 1st child’s grandmother. We don’t know the extent of their relationship. Was other grandma an actual welcome addition or did DIL not know what we know now about boundaries.
YTA. Time to back off a bit, clearly. You should have NEVER ASKED to be in the delivery room. You then go on to be very dismissive about who she did invite. If you think you kept that attitude to yourself, know that you most certainly didn’t. The ‘I don’t have to listen to your crying it out bullshit’ is VERY telling. You’ve obviously given much unsolicited and unwanted advice. Let them make their own way. If they ask for advice or opinions, give it. Asking for him to bring the baby alone is going to cut no ice with your son I’m GLAD to hear. Read the room mom/ grandma. Back. Off. Respect that SHE IS THIS CHILD’S MOTHER.
My thought on the delivery room thing is that Jen may not have had much choice in that matter. There’s a reason she’s not with that child’s dad anymore. But hey, I’m way more empathetic than OP, who seems to think a literal baby hates her on sight.
She also probably had to sacrifice her own choice of a support person because usually only 2 are allowed in so if the ex and the ex MIL were in, she prob has regrets that she didn't have, say, her own mother there, so she didn't want to repeat that. Just an example.
I also got the idea that with the previous delivery, ex-MIL was either forced on her, or something happened that made her not want any MILs present anymore. Also, current MIL seems to be unaware of how often she pushes her beliefs.
It was also her first child. Could have been young parents and the ex-MIL represented a supportive presence. In contrast, she has now been a mother for 7 years. She does not need you for her 2nd child birth. Honestly fuckin weird to ask lol
Or maybe Jen had a decent relationship with her ex-MIL and genuinely wanted her in the room. OP doesn't seem like someone who would support Jen's choices in labour either so makes sense she wouldn't be asked even if other people had been in the past.
I thought perhaps she *had* invited that MIL that time, but it didn't go like she thought/wanted. It was (presumably) her first labour and all was new. Now, with her second, she knew exactly what she did and didn't want.
YTA So many things to unpack here. 1. You want to separate your 6 week year old granddaughter from her mother? What about feedings? Ever thing of that? 2. Did you ask if you could come to the hospital to visit or did you just show up? You sound bitter she wouldn't let you in the delivery room. Why would she? It's her choice, but you're upset by that choice. 3. You sound like you're holding the baby completely wrong and your criticizing how she's taking care of her kid. It sounds like you are ruining your own chances because of your hostile behavior. It's pretty understandable why she is watchful of you. I bet there's ton more you have done but are leaving out.
Also sounds like she’s just showing up at their house, too. AH behavior for *anyone.*
Kinda telling when she mentioned the other grandma was there for the first time ans she has seen the baby 5 times in its 6 weeks of life... Would love to read this from the daugter in laws point of view....it would be a completely different story...
I would LOVE to hear her perspective… YTA. Why don’t you text your son and DIL and tell them you seem to be behind on childcare info and can they send you some of the resources that talk about things like holding the baby, crying it out, or just generally will give you the info you need to show up for them and baby the way they would like. Knowledge about child development and needs and what actually is good or bad for babies has grown leaps and bounds since we raised our kids so how we did it isn’t worth fighting for. And showing a willingness toto move past those ideas will do a lot to repair your relationship. YTA for sure though. I feel like they must have told people they didn’t want visitors for the first few weeks and you’ve just “forgotten” to mention that…
Maybe instead of asking them to do that work for her on top of everything they have going on, she should say she is looking into more recent info, apologize for her behavior, and say she would love the opportunity to visit when they are ready to invite her.
The fact that she just had to be there when the other grandma was meeting her new grandchild was very telling, too. Can't let other grandma have time with her child and grandchild alone, gotta turn it into a competition! OP admitting her jealousy really exposed her motive there.
This really stood out to me too. Visiting 5 times when the baby is 6 weeks old is smothering behavior, IMHO.
I think she showed up at the hospital without an invite and I think she’s shown up weekly since at their house without being invited too, that would have me utterly murderous without the shit she says about parenting personally. Just because they have a child that’s related to you now doesn’t mean you get a free pass into their sanctuary, you wait to be invited in. You text your son and say I would love to meet my gandbaby but I will wait until you explicitly invite me so you both have time and space to get to grips with being parents. Not just barge in unannounced five or six times. When you do that Jen now feels like one - she has a guest to cater to and two - she has to give up her brand new baby so you get a go, and she doesn’t bloody want to.
1. I wonder if OP thinks they can just give the baby a bottle. Add a side of “she’d take a bottle if you didn’t spoil her by breastfeeding.”
I wonder just this. She prob would blame the DIL for this.
Right ? lol hey let me do EVERYTHING wrong but still like me
Yep. OP needs to reflect on the reason why she wanted to be in the delivery room. Only family who care about the mother foremost should be in the room. If my MIL was allowed in the delivery room I would feel like nothing more than a surrogate. I know she wouldn't care about my well being, she would just want to be there so she gets first access to her son's kid. No one needs that energy at such a vulnerable time.
> I told him they were purposely ruining my chance at a relationship with my granddaughter YTA Nobody wants to listen to MIL tell them that they're doing motherhood all wrong, nevermind that there are countless ways. Nobody is "trying to ruin" a relationship but \*YOU\*. This reads like you're extremely pushy with them. If anyone is ruining a relationship, it's you. I'm guessing that won't be your first self-fulfilling prophecy.
Someone is ruining the chances of a relationship between grandma and granddaughter but it isnt the son and daughter in law... it's grandma.
I’m actually gonna give you the benefit of the doubt for a quick second - but whilst also telling you YTA. Please read what I say because this is important. 1- most first time moms end up feeling they compromised things they wish they hadn’t (ex-MiL in the delivery room was probably one of those things. They don’t often make those mistakes a second time. 2- crying it out IS harmful. Even if it wasn’t, not your baby, not your choice - and the wording you used was undermining and passive aggressive as fuck! 3- you gave birth to your child/ren in a VERY different time. We know more now than we did then. Don’t come at anyone with your “survivor bias” bullshit, there IS a reason baby/child mortality rates are so much lower now. 4- this ISN’T your baby. You are not entitled to ANYTHING from your son, his partner or the baby. 5- from the way you wrote it, you didn’t ASK if you could go to the hospital, you knew the baby had been born and rocked the fuck up like an entitled asshole I’m sure there is more I could pick apart, but I will leave you with this…….we don’t have to rely on our mothers/MiL’s like you think we do. You are a peripheral family member that can quickly become a cut-off one. You’re not feeding financing or fucking either of them, so your opinion holds no weight. If you want to be involved it will only be on their terms and no other, the baby is more likely picking up on YOUR hostility. The ONLY redeeming thing I can say about anything you have written is that you either raised your son (or allowed him the space) to learn how to be a supportive partner. You are going to quickly learn you need to fix up or you will be put out in the cold. If you want any chance at salvaging this you need to reflect and (if you actually mean it) make a full apology for overstepping. If it was because you are excited then say so, but mention it as a reason and not an excuse. ASK them both if there is anything you can do to help them, a meal service, dropping food on the porch, laundry you can pick up and deliver back (again, without going inside or disturbing them if that’s what they want), taking the oldest out for a few hours doing something they would want to do etc. Additionally, she may have come into the relationship with a child but they’re now a unit of 4, you either have two grandchildren there or none!
> You’re not feeding financing or fucking either of them, so your opinion holds no weight. Stealing this. Now.
Seriously, it belongs on a pillow
I’d like to add number 6: It sounds like she’s visited once a week since the baby was born. Has she been invited or simply shown up and demanded to see the baby? Going by the rest of the post, I’m assuming the latter. Uninvited guests was one of the worst things I could imagine, when I had a newborn. Especially uninvited guests who give unsolicited (bad) advice, ignores the baby’s cues and doesn’t help out with anything around the house. OP, YTA. Time to back way off, if you want to salvage your relationship with your son and his family.
DING DING DING DING DING. I really hope she reads all these but I take it from her tone that she's gonna read the first two YTA replies and walk away cause she couldn't possibly be in the wrong. "Respect your elders" after all, y'all. Grumble
This is an excellent answer, and I hope OP reads it and learns from it. And yes, OP, YTA.
YTA. You create this problem by being an AH. Seriously. Telling a newborn that they “won’t get their way with you and can’t play you” is absolutely pathetic. And who tf cares if she picks her up for small noises? It’s literally been proven that you can’t spoil a newborn. You damn well know you’re the problem. They’ve made that abundantly clear with what they’ve told you when you visited. Stop acting like a victim. No one is buying a damn thing you’re saying.
When people do this: talk to a baby, a pet, an inanimate object, someone on the phone that can't be heard on the other end, in front of someone they WANT TO CORRECT, it's their passive aggressive way of telling them they are stupid, and their way is the only correct way, without directly saying it and challenging them to a fight. I hate that crap with a passion.
[All Of Family's Neuroses Projected Onto Dog](https://www.theonion.com/all-of-familys-neuroses-projected-onto-dog-1819565501)
And a 6-week-old is still in their fourth trimester. They need to be held. Babies and moms need so much attention. It's hard. Also, I didn't read once where they went over and served the daughter-in-law. Or is she expected to host every single time she comes over once a week. Having a newborn is difficult. The "sleep when the baby is sleeping" is the stupidest piece of advice ever. If that's the case, then I'll do the dishes when the baby does the dishes, or I'll laundry when the baby does the laundry. It's hard work having a newborn. When my mom came after I had my baby for 2 weeks, she allowed me to have nap time, helped with grocery shopping and cleaning, and then at the end of the day had some snuggle time with the baby. Her focus was on helping me rather than gushing over the baby.
I have stopped in 5 times since she had the baby. YTA Did you even ask if you could come in? New mothers DO NOT want people to just walk into their house,you do not hold a 6 week old on their belly,giving her advice she does not want as well is a no unless she asks for it.Did you even ask to come to the hospital or did you come along uninvited? They are not purposely ruining your chances at knowing your granddaughter,you are!
This stuck out to me, too. It’s flu season, RSV is all over the place (at least in my area), and Covid is ramping up too, but here OP is just dropping in every week on a newborn and recovering mom. Great, I’m sure DIL loves that.
[удалено]
I once saw a doormat that said “Audacity: you showing up at my doorstep unannounced” and that’s all I can think of with these MIL posts. Just who does that?
You are absolutely! YTA to the max what the hell, lady? It’s not about you! I don’t blame dil for not trusting you. You have zero respect for her as shown by slyly circumventing what you perceived would be her directive. Your expectation that your son would go behind her back is outrageous! You have awful judgment. And you don’t even know how to hold a baby!! You had the baby on its stomach? This is baby holding 101! You helicopter her when you’re around. You must be an insufferable mil and that’s what baby is picking up on. Get a clue.
YTA You are \*never\* entitled to see a baby without its mother. I think the parents are doing the right thing limiting your relationship with your grandchild if this is your approach.
YTA - Of course the baby cries every time you hold her... you are holding her wrong. I hope your little attempt at manipulating your son was worth the NC that I'm sure they will be enforcing on you. The fact that you think holding a baby is spoiling it or that a baby at weeks can manipulate and needs to cry it out makes me wonder how your son is the man he is.
YTA. How about this, you ask to visit your son and fiance, and you say that you know there is tension and you aren't exactly sure why but you want to mend things. You mention the tension started when you asked to be in the delivery room and then visited at the hospital, so if you overstepped or did something rude, you want to understand and apologize and build a relationship. Then, you listen to what they say. It's okay to ask to be in the delivery room, but did you really take her "no" in stride or did you say or do something at her response? Were you invited to show up at the hospital, or no? Find out their perspective and truly LISTEN. I'm not going to say you should apologize because we don't know their side, but even if it is just a misunderstanding, I would suggest being the "bigger person" and apologizing without any "buts" because fiance was the one going through a big life changing moment and so as someone a step removed, you can take on the brunt of whatever happened and truly apologize and ask for a fresh start. Then, you should certainly apologize for giving unsolicited advice about their child, and tell them you just want to be supportive and helpful. And then, you have to mean it. You seem totally in the dark about what you have done to create this hostility, and the longer it goes on- especially with you now wanting to separate a 6 week old from their mother- the worse it is going to get. So have an honest and kind conversation and remember it is better to be happy than to be right. Hear them out, apologize for your part, ask for clarity around things you don't understand, and move on in good faith.
YTA The title is enough. She is their child first. That happens to make you her grandmother. >I told her the baby was going to get used to being held all the time if she kept doing that Unkind and rude.
Someone telling me that comforting my brand new baby is a bad thing would raise red flags with me immediately. I wouldn’t trust them to tend to my child when I’m not there cause they’d assume it would just spoil the child. I’m not surprised at all that DIL hovers around OP.
YTA. Talk about main character syndrome! She is perfectly allowed to say no to you being in the delivery room. It's up to her who she has there. She is the priority not you. Ofc she is hovering! She's a new mum to a 6 week old. Have you forgotten what that was like? Where's your understanding? And then you criticise her for comforting a six week old? What's the big deal with a baby getting used to being held? It's a baby? Honestly that kind of nonsense is something I'd expect from a 1950's housewife! To then suggest that she is separated from her baby is prime AH and I'm shocked you thought that was okay!
YTA I’d suggest checking out the “just no mil” subreddit to see : How your DIL probably feels about you right now Get a glimpse of what the future may hold for you. If you are willing to work on the relationship, next time you’re there ask what you can do to help. Do they need groceries shopping, a home cooked meal, anything to take care of them ? And please don’t offer to hold the baby while your DIL does chores … Kuddos to your son for calling your BS
Good lord. You wanted to be there for the birth, you get a visit at the hospital, plus you’ve gone over to visit another 5 times and the baby is only 6 weeks old! That’s literally a years worth of visits in 6 weeks. You do not need to bond with a newborn. That is only for mum and dad. You have plenty of time to form a relationship with the child, it does not care who you are at the moment, it’s six weeks old.
Seriously. I’ve seen a few posts where usually the MIL is saying she doesn’t have a chance with a relationship with the baby, while the baby is still an infant. It’s like these people think that a person can’t develop a meaningful relationship with a child unless is starts at birth lol. Which is just insane to me.
Is this a joke or are you really this clueless about babies or people in general? No mom wants to sit hearing their baby cry while someone else tells that NEWBORN that they won’t get away with that. Get a grip!
YTA. You are extremely overbearing. It sounds like you stop in to see the baby without even checking with her to see if it is a good time. Even asking to be in the delivery room was out of line. If you keep it up, don't be surprised if you lose your son and your grandchild. This is the mother of your grandchild and soon to be wife of your son. Learn to play nice with her and YIELD to this woman. She is the queen of your son's home, not you.
YTA. Stop working against the mom and try to work WITH her. She has a new baby while also having to parent her other child. It’s a busy and stressful time. The most annoying thing as a mom with a new baby is to be told you’re doing something wrong. You are likely doing and saying things that is upsetting or off putting for Jen and making her uncomfortable. It may help to let this situation settle for a bit, then try to make amends with her so you guys can be more comfortable around each other. You need to respect how she and your son are choosing to parent.
YTA 1. He told you why they both have a problem with you but you aren’t listening. 2. Stop driving a wedge between your son and his fiancé. Leave them be. 3. The baby will get to know you in time if you back off and LISTEN to them. 4. Speak to a therapist about how your actions are being interpreted as old fashion and figure out how you can grow from this experience and become not a toxic bitter asshole.
YTA its their baby, not yours. You do not have an inherit right to a relationship with your granddaughter. The more reasonable way would be fixing the cause, i.e. finding out why your sons fiance acts the way she does. That would ease situations with all of you together, as well as making them more receptive to you taking care of her
\>>I said "you won't get your own way with me, you cant play me like that" What a passive aggressive way of insulting your FDIL. Babies do not manipulate. Your advice is horrible. No wonder she doesn't want you around. I wouldn't either. The baby doesn't want you around either.
YTA. What is this bull about this being your only chance to build a relationship with your granddaughter? She's an infant! You absolutely should not have asked your son to bring the baby to you without her mom, when they have never been apart. You need to listen to him and his wife, and get with the program or you risk you worst fear, never getting to know Lily as much as you'd like to.
YTA. This may come as a shock to you… but you are NOT that baby’s mother. You have no right to override what the actual mother wants for her child. You may disagree with how she is parenting but… too bad. Not your child, not your decision. You might want to read over your own post… the reasons your future daughter in law might not (doesn’t) like or trust you are right there. I’d highly suggest taking a long look at yourself and start changing your behavior and apologizing. Or you’re going to find yourself cut off (rightly so) from your son and grandchild.
YTA. It’s abundantly clear to everyone reading this post what the issue here is. Even in the way you constructed your narrative to try and get Reddit on your side, you still come off badly. I’m not sure if you’re genuinely not understanding the issue or if you just truly don’t care about your son’s family’s feelings, but either way you need to do some serious self reflection. All the answers you need are right here in your post. Your son and his fiancée don’t like the way you interact with their baby and you ignore all their attempts at corrections or interventions. You believe you have the right to be present in the delivery room even through her own mother wasn’t present. You have “stopped in” to visit five times before she even had her mom meet the baby and I’m guessing you didn’t exactly wait for an invitation those five times. You constantly give instructions on how you think they should care for the baby instead of listening to how they tell you they want to. And the worst of all, rather than attempt to have an actual conversation with them about how to solve these issues, your first idea is to cut out your grandchild’s mother entirely and blame her 100%. This is exactly the way the story goes when adult children cut off their parents. They’ve given you multiple reasons and explanations for how your behavior is harmful to them and you remain firmly convinced that you are the only person who can be correct. If you carry on down this path you’ll 100% lose the relationships you do have with your son’s family. If you *actually* want relationships with them you need to listen to them, reflect on your own behavior, and stop being so stubborn.
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Your first mistake was asking to be in the delivery room. It was a horrendously inappropriate question and now she rightfully has her back up. As for the request in question, YTA. Mom and baby are a package deal.
YTA sounds like you have zero respect for her boundaries or her parenting style. You’re the only one ruining relationships around here.
YTA. Apologize to her for your behavior. Stop behaving that way. Stop pretending you don’t know why. Stop trying to come between her and your son. Stop playing the victim card. You don’t have to agree with how she does things but you do have to keep your mouth shut and accept and support her way. You got to raise your baby. It’s her turn.
OMG. YTA. Do you really think a newborn is manipulative and can pick up on a vibe? Just stop. You are being ridiculous and no wonder mom does not want you around her baby. I don’t know how you raised your son but do a little reading on infant development because you are clueless.
YTA - You sound awful. No one wants to listen to a MIL criticising their parenting. You're not helpful. Be careful or they'll just cut you loose permanently.
> I told her the baby was going to get used to being held all the time if she kept doing that And then what? The baby might learn that she can depend on her parents? Might feel secure in the knowledge that she’s loved and safe? The horror!
To think that someone thought all these words, typed this whole thing out, and still doesn't understand why they're the AH. YTA, OP.
Yes. YTA. Re-read what you wrote again and infer from that.
YTA. The baby is 6 weeks old. You're 51. You have 40 years to have a relationship with your granddaughter.