Your post has been removed.
#Do not repost this without [contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without [explicit approval](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_repost_a_thread_you_removed.3F) will result in a ban.
This post violates Rule 5: We do not allow posts which concern violence. This includes any mention of violence in any context.
[Rule 5 FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_rule_5.3A_no_violence) ||| [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/)
###Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions.
####Please visit r/findareddit to see if there's a more appropriate sub for your post.####
Your comment has been removed because it violates rule 1: [Be Civil](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/). If we’ve removed a few of your recent comments, your participation will be reviewed and may result in a ban.
["Why do I have to be civil in a sub about assholes?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
**[Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.**
YTA.
You're saying that she paid an adult man to do violent harm to a child she had responsibility to.
She had an abortion and you're trying to skirt sub rules. An abortion is not something to cut contact over, get your head out of your ass.
OP said: She paid a violent adult man to hurt the child because she didn't want to be responsible for it. The child did not survive.
This means she got an abortion at 14. OP is the super asshole.
Oh no, the more I'm seeing OPs comments, the more I agree with you. The only thing that gives me pause is the fact that her brother reached out after seeing pics of SIL with kids. If all it was was an abortion, why would he bother telling them?
Unless, of course, we're talking cult levels of religious beliefs that OP and SILs family are all a part of, in which case that would check out.
But that is the only thing that would be inconsistent with an abortion, is how they found. I am inclined to agree with you though.
OP said: She paid a violent adult man to hurt the child because she didn't want to be responsible for it. The child did not survive. There were no legal consequences. This means she got an abortion at 14. If you can't understand that, I can't help you lol.
INFO: Kind of tricky to say without some kind of indication of what she did. The lack of info and the fact that none of them are throwing up all over this doesn't make me feel confident condemning or condoning.
EDIT: it was an abortion and to be clear YTA after reading through all the updates and comments.
OP said: She paid a violent adult man to hurt the child because she didn't want to be responsible for it. The child did not survive.
This means she got an abortion at 14. OP is the super asshole.
Wow, I was just going to call BS on the story of a 14 year old paying someone to kill a child and not getting prosecuted and that someone would actually accept money from a 14 year old to do it. But this is so so so so so it.
Her concern is about the kind of person who would do that rather than the safety of her child. Why? Because you can't abort someone else's kid. But you can totally be an influence inasmuch as it might ever come up.
INFO: Was it SA, physical, or emotional harm (or did she kill somebody)? Was it a repeated offense or something she did once? Did she show any kind of remorse, or did she try to justify her actions? Was she formally punished in any way at the time?
Yeah we can’t judge even with your vague follow ups.
Yeah it involved the death of a child, was it an accident, was it malicious, etc.
You’re going to have to disclose if you want an actual opinion. The fact that your family is rallying also doesn’t help clear this up.
Edit: obvs she had an abortion. You’re answering everyone like she paid a hitman, which is crazy. Whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, I think it’s insane to want to cut ties with all of your own family and move states bc a 14 year old girl had an abortion. You say you want punishment; what kind of punishment do you want to see?
This a completely over the top reaction.
How did the man get in the life of a minor? Where were SIL's parents. older siblings etc? Why was SIL left responsible for a child? Was this an actual small child or a peer?
That literally answers one of the four questions I posed. How did an adult man get into the life of a young teenager? Why was the 14 year old in charge of a baby? What were the parents, siblings etc of SIL doing while a grown man was entering her life?
Did you think to ask? A violent adult man, who would have very few reasons to be in the life of a young teen (grooming being the main one) harms a baby the SIL was unwillingly responsible for.
Plus based on your recent comments I suspect you plan to come out and say she had an abortion or something.
ETA: Congratulations on the deception, OP! Well played!
INFO
> something absolutely gutwrenching that she did to a child when she herself was very young
I appreciate that sub rules likely proscribe you from getting into too much detail here, but can you give us anything else to go on? Was this something with legal consequences?
> she hasn't shown any remorse for her actions
How do you know this, when you only met her a few years ago as an adult?
> My brother cussed me out for even suggesting cutting that woman out over "something that happened in high school,"
Wait. High school? I though this happened when she was very young?
OP said: She paid a violent adult man to hurt the child because she didn't want to be responsible for it. The child did not survive.
This means she got an abortion at 14. OP is the super asshole.
Maybe because she has no contact with the brother or anyone else in her family and there is a lot more history than what the brother told anyone. Her doxxed her for what purpose? What did he get out of it? If there were no legal consequences there seems to be more to this than what you know.
She was 14 years old. She faced no legal consequences. She has posed no harm to anyone in more than 16 years. Her brother had other motives obviously and you are falling for it. There was no reason for him to contact anyone.
Has she harmed your children? Has she ever made you feel like your kids are unsafe?
Seriously? What influence do you think your smart, well-educated, beautiful SIL who made a mistake as a child will have over your children? You don't even believe she is a threat, you just seem to believe there is some perceived influence here. SIL doesn't even speak of what happened and doesn't speak to her family at all. You want your brother to divorce his wife because she might caution your children not to make mistakes. That is what you are saying here.
And your story is starting to make less and less sense.
Based on all the extra information and particularly this, YTA.
I can understand having concerns about this woman, but
>I'm not letting anyone who keeps her in their lives around me or my children.
I would understand not wanting your children around the woman, or around her unsupervised, but cutting your parents off completely because they're choosing to support your brother and his wife is a WILD overreaction.
**Would you really prevent your children from having any relationship with their grandparents over this?**
Do you also ensure your children never talk to anyone who interacts with a police officer or soldier as well? I mean, you knew this woman for several years, maybe you're not fit to be around your children either, you might already be tainted 🤔
Again you're being really obscure and super vague about the situation to the point I don't believe it was that bad if she never faced legal repercussions. Please seek therapy. YTA
> She was 14 when it happened. There were no legal consequences for her at the time.
Hmm. Would I be correct in characterizing this as a *bullying* situation?
YTA bc you’ve admitted in comments you aren’t afraid of her just concerned she will influence your children. Considering this isn’t something she talks about I’m not sure how she can negatively influence your kids. You’re also asking a lot from your family and your brother. You are free to cut her off, but you don’t get to dictate how everyone else responds.
Well, since you keep dancing around it, can you pirouette a bit closer to the actual thing she did? I mean did she lock the child out of the house and said child got hit by a car? Set the house on fire with the child inside? You're going to have to give us more than a vague reference, even if her own family disowned her due to it.
OP said: She paid a violent adult man to hurt the child because she didn't want to be responsible for it. The child did not survive.
This means she got an abortion at 14. OP is the super asshole.
You are definitely ~~NTA~~ TA. ~~I wouldn't want this person around me, let alone my children. Perhaps, if she was a very young teenager (13) and she expressed remorse and has made what restitution possible to the child in question I'd allow supervised visits, but not likely.~~
Edit:
After further information about what it was, YTA. Way to be misleading!
What was done and when really matters a lot in this story. While high school is younger than 30, you make it sound like this is something that occurred when she was single digits right up until the end there. So it's really hard to judge anything.
Edited YTA you've been super vague throughout. Maybe further clarifying information will change my mind. But this comment from another comment chain is pretty self-damming
>No, and I do not think she's a threat to them, but I'm terrified of having someone responsible for the death of a child influencing them as they grow up.
Nope. If she's no threat then your concern is because she's forever tainted by something she did 16 years ago? She can never recover from that thing and there's nothing she can do in your eyes because it happened so long ago.
She was sent to a boarding school. But you feel she never felt any remorse ever? So she's a sociopath? Otherwise, what basis do you have to say this? Those types of schools often have group and individual therapy as part of them. So she's likely had plenty of opportunity to think over the actions and it's consequences.
Remorse is a thing. Growing is a thing. People change and improve from who they are at 14. There's a reason our legal system considers the actions of children and adults as different.
Okay, but that's still very vague.
Spanking someone she was babysitting would be really bad and intentional harm, but she could have learned from it.
Stabbing a kid with a knife because they were crying would be a felony and she should have been prosecuted, but she also could have learned and become a better person.
Sexual assault and all bets are off I don't want this person anywhere within 10 miles of my children.
This right here. You have provided no basis to judge. Generally something done @ 14 can be grown out of, and since everyone else involved is backing her it doesn't sound like something she would repeat as an adult. But without the "thing" WE HAVE NO WAY TO JUDGE"
What was the point of posting this if you’re going to dance around what actually happened. You say she did something intentional that caused the death of a child but there were no charges brought against her. Did she play some prank or something that caused a death? Did she push a kid into the pool and they drowned?
That gives me nothing and I mean nothing. You are not making sense. She did something intentional that caused the death of a child but faced no charges but if she did it today she would face charges. And yet you still said in a comment that you don’t actually think she’s an actual danger to your children. How?
Dude, you keep adding more and more information to paint her in a worse light, yet all that does it make this less believable. Your story is sounding crazier the more you change it. Unless you’re prepared to tell what actually happened, we can’t really pass judgement. At this point I think you’re overreacting and quite possibly making this all up.
This is the most convoluted bullshit I’ve ever heard. We’re supposed to believe a 14 year old hired a damn hit man. But faced no charges. Where I’m from she would’ve been tried as an adult. Op is full of shit.
OP just commented that she doesn't even believe her SIL is a danger to children. She wants her brother to get a divorce because his well-educated, beautiful wife who made some vague mistake or had a vague incident over 16 years ago might "influence her children." She is threatening to cut off her entire family because this woman might be an "influence" someday. Not a danger. Just an influence.
OP’s SIL caused the death of a child and isn’t remorseful over it. It is perfectly normal to not be comfortable with someone who shows no remorse for causing the death of a child around your young children.
OP isn't concerned and said she doesn't feel like SIL is a danger. She feels like SIL might be in "influence." That is a huge difference. OP wants her brother to get a divorce over potential influence. Not danger.
Someone who deliberately harmed a child and caused the child’s death will be a bad influence on children. She killed a child and expects to be supported for killing a child and being exposed as a killer. She wants to sue someone for informing the people who let their kids around someone whose intentional actions killed a child that the person they let their kids around caused the death of a child she was responsible for.
OP thought she was fine before finding out that she was a person who killed a child, however with the new information that her SIL killed a child, it is perfectly reasonable to believe that the person who killed a child and wants to sue her brother for telling OP about the fact that SIL killed a child will be a bad influence on children.
info; I'm gonna be honest, I'd need some basic information before I support either side. Something awful that happened in high school could just be a tragic accident. It would be alot easier to be on your side if you could at least say that it wasn't an accident and she was the only one responsible.
Can't really give a proper judgement without knowing what SIL did. And I have to admit, the fact that the rest of your family isn't too bothered by doesn't speak well to your own reaction. Also, you really don't know if she has or had remorse for what happened. Until you can tell us a little bit more, can't say anything else.
Again, too vague. This could mean that she left the child in the backyard for a moment and they drowned in the pool. This could mean that she failed to supervise properly and they fell. This could mean that she fell asleep while babysitting. Or that she got out a gun and shot the kid. There is a WIDE range of intentional actions here.
Your story doesn’t make any sense. A teen girl paid a violent man to harm a child in her custody, got sent to boarding school, and literally nobody in your family knew about this history until recently?
So SIL did something, and you're angry about SIL doing something and even more angry that other people aren't angry about something that SIL did too.
Have I left something out?
Besides that is was apparently intentional harmful acts of a child SIL was responsible for when she was 14, and if it happened today SIL would have gone to prison? Nope, not a thing.
Really?
With no repercussions whatsoever.
No jail time, no monitoring, no female version of a boys home, no "Into the system for bad children"
Nothing?
YTA. There's no way to say if you are right about SIL or not with how little context you provided.
You are however YTA for the way you are trying to force your brother to do what you want. You are more than welcome to not let your sister in law see your kids anymore but that's it.
Even with the tidbit of info that you've given us, there still isn't enough here. What were the consequences? Did she go to therapy? Was there any kind of recourse at all aside from legal repercussions? I don't know exactly what she did and I'm certainly not trying to justify "intentional harm of a child", but she was 14. Our brains aren't even done developing at that point. Particularly the part of the brain that is responsible for reasoning and decision making. It sounds like you have very little info yourself and are making a rush to judgement. I was not a good person in my teens but 25 years later, that's not who I am at all. I don't think either of us have enough information to judge her on these circumstances. The fact that her brother, who she is no contact with, was the one to share this info would make me tread lightly.
YTA. She did it when she was young. You need to grow up and have an adult conversation with her if it bothers you that much. If you don't want your children to be around her, that's one thing, but to tell everyone else that they can't be around her or talk to her is ridiculous.
You are being much too vague to make a judgment. But using an ultimatum like this is kind of an asshole move. So, I would say that what she did would have to be pretty extreme to justify your behavior. But then, why are you the only one who feels this way according to your post? IDK... this whole post is fishy.
It is suspicious that you won't say exactly what she did and exactly how you know for a certain fact that she did it.
No way to judge this. It is too vague and you obviously don't know the details or anything else. You have no clue as to what happened, why, etc. Or if SIL has remorse or not. This happened so long ago that you don't know what steps happened in between.
You can cut off anyone you want, you just can't expect everyone else to fall in line with what you want.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
I never thought I'd be in a situation where I might have to cut off my own family, but here we are.
My(32F) brother(30M) and sister in law(30F) met in college, and married two years ago. I have always supported the relationship. I will say, for the record, that my SIL is a beautiful, intelligent, and well-educated woman who I was proud to call family, despite coming from a background that, although she refused to disclose any details, she described as being extremely difficult. I always figured it was none of my business why she wasn't in contact with her family, and respected her privacy in those matters.
Well, the reason for the estrangement was recently revealed when her older brother got ahold of some contact information for her, and reached out to most people she's friends with on facebook with details. It turns out, it has to do with something absolutely gutwrenching that she did to a child when she herself was very young.
The next day, at a family meeting, she confirmed that her brother was telling the truth, and she expected our family to be sympathetic to her situation, and help her sue her brother for harassment. I was kind of in shock when my parents agreed to help, and my husband and I left. We have two children, both under 5 years old, and I do not want this woman around them. I do not want anyone who thinks this sort of this is alright around them. Yes, SIL was very young at the time, but she hasn't shown any remorse for her actions, and I do not want my kids exposed to that kind of person, ever.
I called my brother the next day and told him point blank that until he shows me signed divorce papers, he is not welcome around my family. I let my parents know that if they helped this woman escape the consequences of her actions, or offered any kind of support that wasn't related to getting my brother an amazing divorce attorney, they would never see or hear from me or my family again. I offered to pay for the best attorney in our state for my brother. If there is no divorce, I'm going to move states and make sure none of them know where I'm going.
Nobody else seems to share my opinion. My brother cussed me out for even suggesting cutting that woman out over "something that happened in high school," and my parents thing I'm being controlling and overreacting, and that she's family now and we owe her loyalty. My husband has said he'll support me if I want to move, because we only moved here to be near my family anyway, but wants me to try and talk this out.
I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone, but maybe I'm just losing my mind here. AITA?
TL;DR: My sister did something awful to a child when she was younger, and I'm not letting anyone who keeps her in their lives around me or my children. AITA?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I am threatening to cut off my parents and brother completely from my family, basically making them choose between me and SIL. 2. SIL was young when she did what she did, and my family do not want to cut her out over something that happened so long ago.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Your vaguaries are making it really difficult to know what the right answer is here.
I'm going to say ESH because she is not showing remorse and hid her actions behind "difficult family", but your scorched earth reaction seems very extreme. She was a child herself, it hardly seems right to decide her actions, which were not criminally prosecuted, are sufficient to be ostracized and kept away from children forever. And not just that, they are horrific enough that anyone associated with her will be thrown out the same way. This makes you a judgement asshole.
Has she gone to therapy to deal with what she did? She was pretty young and probably didn't realize understand what she was doing. If she took responsibility for her actions I could see being okay with her. But also I could see why you don't want to spend any time with her either.
Your post has been removed. #Do not repost this without [contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without [explicit approval](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_repost_a_thread_you_removed.3F) will result in a ban. This post violates Rule 5: We do not allow posts which concern violence. This includes any mention of violence in any context. [Rule 5 FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_rule_5.3A_no_violence) ||| [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) ###Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions. ####Please visit r/findareddit to see if there's a more appropriate sub for your post.####
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed because it violates rule 1: [Be Civil](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/). If we’ve removed a few of your recent comments, your participation will be reviewed and may result in a ban. ["Why do I have to be civil in a sub about assholes?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) **[Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.**
YTA. You're saying that she paid an adult man to do violent harm to a child she had responsibility to. She had an abortion and you're trying to skirt sub rules. An abortion is not something to cut contact over, get your head out of your ass.
[удалено]
OP said: She paid a violent adult man to hurt the child because she didn't want to be responsible for it. The child did not survive. This means she got an abortion at 14. OP is the super asshole.
Oh no, the more I'm seeing OPs comments, the more I agree with you. The only thing that gives me pause is the fact that her brother reached out after seeing pics of SIL with kids. If all it was was an abortion, why would he bother telling them? Unless, of course, we're talking cult levels of religious beliefs that OP and SILs family are all a part of, in which case that would check out. But that is the only thing that would be inconsistent with an abortion, is how they found. I am inclined to agree with you though.
Brother may have been her abuser
wait, how do you know it was an abortion? she is making it sound like SIL paid someone who murdered a child....
OP said: She paid a violent adult man to hurt the child because she didn't want to be responsible for it. The child did not survive. There were no legal consequences. This means she got an abortion at 14. If you can't understand that, I can't help you lol.
INFO: Kind of tricky to say without some kind of indication of what she did. The lack of info and the fact that none of them are throwing up all over this doesn't make me feel confident condemning or condoning. EDIT: it was an abortion and to be clear YTA after reading through all the updates and comments.
OP said: She paid a violent adult man to hurt the child because she didn't want to be responsible for it. The child did not survive. This means she got an abortion at 14. OP is the super asshole.
Wow, I was just going to call BS on the story of a 14 year old paying someone to kill a child and not getting prosecuted and that someone would actually accept money from a 14 year old to do it. But this is so so so so so it. Her concern is about the kind of person who would do that rather than the safety of her child. Why? Because you can't abort someone else's kid. But you can totally be an influence inasmuch as it might ever come up.
Thanks. Wasn’t going to come back to this given OPs vagueness. And agreed OP is TA
others are saying that OPs SIL had an abortion at 14...
Yeah, it makes it more difficult to tell if OP is overreacting.
Read through comments and gathered 14 year old paid a grown adult to kill a child she didn’t want to take care of:
[удалено]
Is the "intentional harm" an abortion?
Was this her child? Was thr man she paid a doctor? Was she abused and got pregnant? Did she the get an abortion? YTA
INFO: Was it SA, physical, or emotional harm (or did she kill somebody)? Was it a repeated offense or something she did once? Did she show any kind of remorse, or did she try to justify her actions? Was she formally punished in any way at the time?
So ... an illegal abortion?
You just have to tell us what she did. Otherwise, this is deliberately vague and evasive and you do sound controlling.
OP said "Paid a violent adult man to hurt a baby she had a responsibility to." This is code for "got an abortion at 14."
I had the exact same thought.
Ooh yeah. That makes sense.
I'm taking the guess that it isn't anywhere near as bad given SIL never faced legal repercussions.
Yeah we can’t judge even with your vague follow ups. Yeah it involved the death of a child, was it an accident, was it malicious, etc. You’re going to have to disclose if you want an actual opinion. The fact that your family is rallying also doesn’t help clear this up. Edit: obvs she had an abortion. You’re answering everyone like she paid a hitman, which is crazy. Whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, I think it’s insane to want to cut ties with all of your own family and move states bc a 14 year old girl had an abortion. You say you want punishment; what kind of punishment do you want to see? This a completely over the top reaction.
[удалено]
Where did a 14 year old child get the money and connections to hire someone to hurt a child?
OP is being stupid. The words they're looking for are "my sister in law got an abortion at 14."
Ooooo…. Gold star. I think you hit the nail on the head!
Yeah ... calling BS on this one.
How did the man get in the life of a minor? Where were SIL's parents. older siblings etc? Why was SIL left responsible for a child? Was this an actual small child or a peer?
[удалено]
That literally answers one of the four questions I posed. How did an adult man get into the life of a young teenager? Why was the 14 year old in charge of a baby? What were the parents, siblings etc of SIL doing while a grown man was entering her life?
[удалено]
Did you think to ask? A violent adult man, who would have very few reasons to be in the life of a young teen (grooming being the main one) harms a baby the SIL was unwillingly responsible for. Plus based on your recent comments I suspect you plan to come out and say she had an abortion or something.
ETA: Congratulations on the deception, OP! Well played! INFO > something absolutely gutwrenching that she did to a child when she herself was very young I appreciate that sub rules likely proscribe you from getting into too much detail here, but can you give us anything else to go on? Was this something with legal consequences? > she hasn't shown any remorse for her actions How do you know this, when you only met her a few years ago as an adult? > My brother cussed me out for even suggesting cutting that woman out over "something that happened in high school," Wait. High school? I though this happened when she was very young?
OP said: She paid a violent adult man to hurt the child because she didn't want to be responsible for it. The child did not survive. This means she got an abortion at 14. OP is the super asshole.
^^^ the inconsistencies and vagueness are confusing
She was 14 and paid a grown adult to kill a child she didn’t want to take care of/
[удалено]
Maybe because she has no contact with the brother or anyone else in her family and there is a lot more history than what the brother told anyone. Her doxxed her for what purpose? What did he get out of it? If there were no legal consequences there seems to be more to this than what you know.
[удалено]
She was 14 years old. She faced no legal consequences. She has posed no harm to anyone in more than 16 years. Her brother had other motives obviously and you are falling for it. There was no reason for him to contact anyone. Has she harmed your children? Has she ever made you feel like your kids are unsafe?
Especially since a 14 year old would leave a paper trail to the man she paid to kill a baby she didn’t want to take care of.
[удалено]
Seriously? What influence do you think your smart, well-educated, beautiful SIL who made a mistake as a child will have over your children? You don't even believe she is a threat, you just seem to believe there is some perceived influence here. SIL doesn't even speak of what happened and doesn't speak to her family at all. You want your brother to divorce his wife because she might caution your children not to make mistakes. That is what you are saying here. And your story is starting to make less and less sense.
Based on all the extra information and particularly this, YTA. I can understand having concerns about this woman, but >I'm not letting anyone who keeps her in their lives around me or my children. I would understand not wanting your children around the woman, or around her unsupervised, but cutting your parents off completely because they're choosing to support your brother and his wife is a WILD overreaction. **Would you really prevent your children from having any relationship with their grandparents over this?**
[удалено]
Do you also ensure your children never talk to anyone who interacts with a police officer or soldier as well? I mean, you knew this woman for several years, maybe you're not fit to be around your children either, you might already be tainted 🤔
[удалено]
You said it wasn't illegal at the time.
[удалено]
Again you're being really obscure and super vague about the situation to the point I don't believe it was that bad if she never faced legal repercussions. Please seek therapy. YTA
She says the 14 year old hired a man to kill a baby she didn’t want to look after
If she got away with it, did it go to trial and she was found not guilty? If it didn’t go to trial, why not?
> She was 14 when it happened. There were no legal consequences for her at the time. Hmm. Would I be correct in characterizing this as a *bullying* situation?
[удалено]
I feel like I'm getting farther away from it. Babysitting incident? Is this about *negligence* or *intentional harmful* actions?
[удалено]
What does that MEAN? You seriously need to provide more detail if you expect better responses.
[удалено]
Still vague. Why are you refusing to provide details?
Because if OP says she killed a kid the thread will get locked
And child passed?
YTA bc you’ve admitted in comments you aren’t afraid of her just concerned she will influence your children. Considering this isn’t something she talks about I’m not sure how she can negatively influence your kids. You’re also asking a lot from your family and your brother. You are free to cut her off, but you don’t get to dictate how everyone else responds.
She might be surrounded with some kind of miasma of evil though.
Well, since you keep dancing around it, can you pirouette a bit closer to the actual thing she did? I mean did she lock the child out of the house and said child got hit by a car? Set the house on fire with the child inside? You're going to have to give us more than a vague reference, even if her own family disowned her due to it.
OP said: She paid a violent adult man to hurt the child because she didn't want to be responsible for it. The child did not survive. This means she got an abortion at 14. OP is the super asshole.
someone else is saying that OP's SIL had an abortion at 14.... thats the child "she didnt want to be responsible for"
[удалено]
You are definitely ~~NTA~~ TA. ~~I wouldn't want this person around me, let alone my children. Perhaps, if she was a very young teenager (13) and she expressed remorse and has made what restitution possible to the child in question I'd allow supervised visits, but not likely.~~ Edit: After further information about what it was, YTA. Way to be misleading!
[удалено]
[удалено]
Bullshit. The SIL had an abortion at 14. Judgemental OP is some kind of pro forced birth AH trying to drum up karma.
The SIL had an abortion. That is pretty clear from OP's comments. If that is the case then someone needs to save OP's kids from OP's influence.
And no remorse at all? Yeah, NTA. Please put that detail in the post, it's important.
What was done and when really matters a lot in this story. While high school is younger than 30, you make it sound like this is something that occurred when she was single digits right up until the end there. So it's really hard to judge anything. Edited YTA you've been super vague throughout. Maybe further clarifying information will change my mind. But this comment from another comment chain is pretty self-damming >No, and I do not think she's a threat to them, but I'm terrified of having someone responsible for the death of a child influencing them as they grow up. Nope. If she's no threat then your concern is because she's forever tainted by something she did 16 years ago? She can never recover from that thing and there's nothing she can do in your eyes because it happened so long ago. She was sent to a boarding school. But you feel she never felt any remorse ever? So she's a sociopath? Otherwise, what basis do you have to say this? Those types of schools often have group and individual therapy as part of them. So she's likely had plenty of opportunity to think over the actions and it's consequences. Remorse is a thing. Growing is a thing. People change and improve from who they are at 14. There's a reason our legal system considers the actions of children and adults as different.
[удалено]
Okay, but that's still very vague. Spanking someone she was babysitting would be really bad and intentional harm, but she could have learned from it. Stabbing a kid with a knife because they were crying would be a felony and she should have been prosecuted, but she also could have learned and become a better person. Sexual assault and all bets are off I don't want this person anywhere within 10 miles of my children.
This right here. You have provided no basis to judge. Generally something done @ 14 can be grown out of, and since everyone else involved is backing her it doesn't sound like something she would repeat as an adult. But without the "thing" WE HAVE NO WAY TO JUDGE"
[удалено]
What was the point of posting this if you’re going to dance around what actually happened. You say she did something intentional that caused the death of a child but there were no charges brought against her. Did she play some prank or something that caused a death? Did she push a kid into the pool and they drowned?
[удалено]
That gives me nothing and I mean nothing. You are not making sense. She did something intentional that caused the death of a child but faced no charges but if she did it today she would face charges. And yet you still said in a comment that you don’t actually think she’s an actual danger to your children. How?
[удалено]
Dude, you keep adding more and more information to paint her in a worse light, yet all that does it make this less believable. Your story is sounding crazier the more you change it. Unless you’re prepared to tell what actually happened, we can’t really pass judgement. At this point I think you’re overreacting and quite possibly making this all up.
This is the most convoluted bullshit I’ve ever heard. We’re supposed to believe a 14 year old hired a damn hit man. But faced no charges. Where I’m from she would’ve been tried as an adult. Op is full of shit.
WHAT!!!!!!! And you don’t think this person is a threat to your children. Are you kidding me.
If you're not going to give us something to work with then I'm just gonna stick with YTA until you change your mind.
Even a minor act could cause a death. We still can't opine intelligently.
OP just commented that she doesn't even believe her SIL is a danger to children. She wants her brother to get a divorce because his well-educated, beautiful wife who made some vague mistake or had a vague incident over 16 years ago might "influence her children." She is threatening to cut off her entire family because this woman might be an "influence" someday. Not a danger. Just an influence.
OP’s SIL caused the death of a child and isn’t remorseful over it. It is perfectly normal to not be comfortable with someone who shows no remorse for causing the death of a child around your young children.
OP isn't concerned and said she doesn't feel like SIL is a danger. She feels like SIL might be in "influence." That is a huge difference. OP wants her brother to get a divorce over potential influence. Not danger.
Someone who deliberately harmed a child and caused the child’s death will be a bad influence on children. She killed a child and expects to be supported for killing a child and being exposed as a killer. She wants to sue someone for informing the people who let their kids around someone whose intentional actions killed a child that the person they let their kids around caused the death of a child she was responsible for. OP thought she was fine before finding out that she was a person who killed a child, however with the new information that her SIL killed a child, it is perfectly reasonable to believe that the person who killed a child and wants to sue her brother for telling OP about the fact that SIL killed a child will be a bad influence on children.
info; I'm gonna be honest, I'd need some basic information before I support either side. Something awful that happened in high school could just be a tragic accident. It would be alot easier to be on your side if you could at least say that it wasn't an accident and she was the only one responsible.
[удалено]
wait, someone else said it was an abortion. was it an abortion or killing of a an actual child? those two things are wildly different.
I imagine they're not to the OP
Can't really give a proper judgement without knowing what SIL did. And I have to admit, the fact that the rest of your family isn't too bothered by doesn't speak well to your own reaction. Also, you really don't know if she has or had remorse for what happened. Until you can tell us a little bit more, can't say anything else.
[удалено]
Again, too vague. This could mean that she left the child in the backyard for a moment and they drowned in the pool. This could mean that she failed to supervise properly and they fell. This could mean that she fell asleep while babysitting. Or that she got out a gun and shot the kid. There is a WIDE range of intentional actions here.
Your story doesn’t make any sense. A teen girl paid a violent man to harm a child in her custody, got sent to boarding school, and literally nobody in your family knew about this history until recently?
So SIL did something, and you're angry about SIL doing something and even more angry that other people aren't angry about something that SIL did too. Have I left something out?
Besides that is was apparently intentional harmful acts of a child SIL was responsible for when she was 14, and if it happened today SIL would have gone to prison? Nope, not a thing.
Ohhhhhhh, what was that something? Was it [something ](https://youtu.be/0oGMbAIcXCQ?si=Pgtpa4WDWn9ftB5z)
Lol don't forget "complete."
Somehow a 14 year old girl paid an older man to kill a child she didn’t want to take care off.
Really? With no repercussions whatsoever. No jail time, no monitoring, no female version of a boys home, no "Into the system for bad children" Nothing?
YTA. There's no way to say if you are right about SIL or not with how little context you provided. You are however YTA for the way you are trying to force your brother to do what you want. You are more than welcome to not let your sister in law see your kids anymore but that's it.
Even with the tidbit of info that you've given us, there still isn't enough here. What were the consequences? Did she go to therapy? Was there any kind of recourse at all aside from legal repercussions? I don't know exactly what she did and I'm certainly not trying to justify "intentional harm of a child", but she was 14. Our brains aren't even done developing at that point. Particularly the part of the brain that is responsible for reasoning and decision making. It sounds like you have very little info yourself and are making a rush to judgement. I was not a good person in my teens but 25 years later, that's not who I am at all. I don't think either of us have enough information to judge her on these circumstances. The fact that her brother, who she is no contact with, was the one to share this info would make me tread lightly.
[удалено]
That said something if her own family don’t fuck with her.
It was an abortion. Her family sent her away for getting an abortion at 14. Op is a cruel, judgement arse
There’s really no way to judge this as it’s too vague.
YTA. She did it when she was young. You need to grow up and have an adult conversation with her if it bothers you that much. If you don't want your children to be around her, that's one thing, but to tell everyone else that they can't be around her or talk to her is ridiculous.
INFO: Is this your dissertation?
You are being much too vague to make a judgment. But using an ultimatum like this is kind of an asshole move. So, I would say that what she did would have to be pretty extreme to justify your behavior. But then, why are you the only one who feels this way according to your post? IDK... this whole post is fishy. It is suspicious that you won't say exactly what she did and exactly how you know for a certain fact that she did it.
No way to judge this. It is too vague and you obviously don't know the details or anything else. You have no clue as to what happened, why, etc. Or if SIL has remorse or not. This happened so long ago that you don't know what steps happened in between. You can cut off anyone you want, you just can't expect everyone else to fall in line with what you want.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I never thought I'd be in a situation where I might have to cut off my own family, but here we are. My(32F) brother(30M) and sister in law(30F) met in college, and married two years ago. I have always supported the relationship. I will say, for the record, that my SIL is a beautiful, intelligent, and well-educated woman who I was proud to call family, despite coming from a background that, although she refused to disclose any details, she described as being extremely difficult. I always figured it was none of my business why she wasn't in contact with her family, and respected her privacy in those matters. Well, the reason for the estrangement was recently revealed when her older brother got ahold of some contact information for her, and reached out to most people she's friends with on facebook with details. It turns out, it has to do with something absolutely gutwrenching that she did to a child when she herself was very young. The next day, at a family meeting, she confirmed that her brother was telling the truth, and she expected our family to be sympathetic to her situation, and help her sue her brother for harassment. I was kind of in shock when my parents agreed to help, and my husband and I left. We have two children, both under 5 years old, and I do not want this woman around them. I do not want anyone who thinks this sort of this is alright around them. Yes, SIL was very young at the time, but she hasn't shown any remorse for her actions, and I do not want my kids exposed to that kind of person, ever. I called my brother the next day and told him point blank that until he shows me signed divorce papers, he is not welcome around my family. I let my parents know that if they helped this woman escape the consequences of her actions, or offered any kind of support that wasn't related to getting my brother an amazing divorce attorney, they would never see or hear from me or my family again. I offered to pay for the best attorney in our state for my brother. If there is no divorce, I'm going to move states and make sure none of them know where I'm going. Nobody else seems to share my opinion. My brother cussed me out for even suggesting cutting that woman out over "something that happened in high school," and my parents thing I'm being controlling and overreacting, and that she's family now and we owe her loyalty. My husband has said he'll support me if I want to move, because we only moved here to be near my family anyway, but wants me to try and talk this out. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone, but maybe I'm just losing my mind here. AITA? TL;DR: My sister did something awful to a child when she was younger, and I'm not letting anyone who keeps her in their lives around me or my children. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1. I am threatening to cut off my parents and brother completely from my family, basically making them choose between me and SIL. 2. SIL was young when she did what she did, and my family do not want to cut her out over something that happened so long ago. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Your vaguaries are making it really difficult to know what the right answer is here. I'm going to say ESH because she is not showing remorse and hid her actions behind "difficult family", but your scorched earth reaction seems very extreme. She was a child herself, it hardly seems right to decide her actions, which were not criminally prosecuted, are sufficient to be ostracized and kept away from children forever. And not just that, they are horrific enough that anyone associated with her will be thrown out the same way. This makes you a judgement asshole.
[удалено]
How did a 14-year-old have control of enough money to influence an adult man to commit a crime?
someone else is saying it was an abortion???
I see that, but is OP admitting to it?
Has she gone to therapy to deal with what she did? She was pretty young and probably didn't realize understand what she was doing. If she took responsibility for her actions I could see being okay with her. But also I could see why you don't want to spend any time with her either.
Not enough info: mean girl in HS - YTA. Murdered a kid she was babysitting - NTA.
[удалено]
How else are we supposed to give judgment. They’re are being too vague. OP wants to know if they’re overreacting. How can we tell.
She basically murdered a kid. NTA
NTA keep her far away from your family. Did the parents of that baby not press charges? What an evil woman
[удалено]
Was it *her* baby, OP?