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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I married my gay ex husband as a cover up so we both could have an easy way out of our church and our families. Then we divorced and now we are good friends and still get along very well.
However, my mom saw my public comments on his social posts and berated me about why I still talked to him, I told her I knew he was gay from the beginning and I came up with the idea of getting married together, she scolded me and told me that I betrayed all of them and maybe she is now spreading the gossip around town. I wonder if I did wrong to her after all she did to support our marriage.
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INFO: When you say "I played the poor heartbroken wife who just discovered her marriage was a lie part" did you actually try to solicit comfort and support from people? Because if so then for sure E S H
Edit: Also, how extravagant was the wedding? Did people have to travel for it and did they send gifts? If so that also adds to the potential E S H aspect of it
No, the wedding was at the church, family and friends, weddings are still expensive anyway because everything has a wedding tax, but we had the essentials.
Also I did not solicit support from people, I did some posts about how heartbroken I was to have been lied my whole marriage, and people came with "thoughts and prayers" and "talk to god".
That's fair, still kind of ass hole-y to fake the heart break story knowing what kind of reactions it would get from people, but they're homophobes so I think you can get a pass
Agreed, she played the victim to look better than to just come out with the truth.. shitty but if this story is true I could see why she did it, and if he was ok with being the asshole in this situation than oh well.
It sounded to me like he was in on it too. It seems fair enough given their arrangement and that it also seems like he wanted to totally cut ties with everyone in their past church and she is still in contact with her parents.
I feel the intent was to explicitly troll their old community/family/friends, since op said their reactions were 'funny' and their new circle of friends were aware it was all just a cover up. Playing the heartbroken victim would be redundant otherwise.
Honestly, petty is as petty does, the religious aspect of it brings cult like vibes with the way they are trying to arrange the marriage to older men. She wanted out, he wanted out, this scenario lets you mess with people who have made life unbearable to you for a while.
Honestly I say NTA but some really petty reasoning on the divorce storyline.
Honestly, I'm here for messing with bigots. It might be petty but if they're the kind of people throwing slurs around and attempting to arrange inappropriate age gap marriages for their daughters then they deserve to be messed with. Those people don't learn from compassion when they're that far indoctrinated.
That's what I'm thinking. Some of these cults... erm, traditionalist sects, will make sure to go out of their way to avoid contact with someone that has brought a double shame upon the house, so they would definitely stay away from him.
Yeah that kind of thing. Like they're not going to like him anyways, and we just saw what op mom did after finding out the truth so honestly, the lie about being heartbroken seems like it was the correct route. They're already going to be pissed, this way op got to control the narrative and after that long of dealing with oppression, sure, why not, that's the least op could have done, ya know?
I’m sure OP actually helped them out, imagine the amount of gossip, “praying,” and sermon fodder their choices created for their cult community to feed upon. Not sure there were any actual “victims” in this “crime.”
NTA. What you did was be an ally for your friend and avoid being pressured into an unwanted marriage. It was a strategy for you both to stay safe. Making a dramatic exit also served to create another barrier for your ex from your old church. You omitted the reasons why you got married. Your mom is not able to hear the reality because she is a big part of why you all did what you did. It doesn’t feel good to feel like you were tricked and deceived. Nobody likes that. But no one deserves to be subjected to relentless homophobia and bigotry or having restrictions on choices and reduced autonomy as an adult by there parents. You all made the best choice you could given the circumstances. You were strong and brave. And your mom’s reactions are evidence to why you all needed to do what you did. I hope you and your ex find that happiness and good life as you keep forging a new path outside of what you were brought up in.
Religious curch like she describes it being forced into marriage like young muslim girls. Yup fucking lunatics, hats off for the girl to get the fuck away from these fucking nutjobs. Religion is a cult, always has been.
I think if we're to answer the question clinically, then op is the ah...but this is one of the rare situations where I couldn't care less if they are technically bad. I wouldn't be able to resist mocking the homophobes either.
Imo Reddit is just too anti prank. That shit is funny af and really only messes with homophobes and religious people that are indoctrinated to a hateful degree. Hard to imagine the ex husband wasn't sitting next to her laughing while she made the post.
She likely had to play into the part of a heartbroken wife to make the fake marriage and divorce believable, and to not arouse suspicion from the family and other church-oriented members. The type of religious people she describes are really weird about getting involved in your personal life to strange degrees, and it's not uncommon for lavender marriages to take place and the 'couple' have to make up lies for peace and solitude.
You say she is a good mother to you, but she is threatening to out you for marrying your gay friend as a form of potential punishment to control you. That's not a good mother. You guys lied for a reason, and that reason is currently losing her shit, thus justifying it.
Eh, I don't think so. Was raised mormon and the vibes aren't right for it being them. I'd think more it's a Bible belt cult if this is the US based on what one of my friends who was raised in one has told me.
But were you raised Utah mormon? Because I was raised mormon too and I’ve seen this happening a lot. It also applies to a lot of other christian cults and as I mentioned before, the OP didn’t specify which church.
Yes I was. Not provo mormon, but still utah mormon. If it was mormon there would have been the parental pressure for ex-husband to go on a mission, not for them to get married out of high school. Also while the Mormons are definitely the majority of the Utah population, it isn't as cultish about staying in the community as OPs post sounds because Mormons want to spread the good word. Lastly nobody I grew up with had their parents trying to introduce them to older men to marry out of high school, that sounds more FLDS than LDS. Doesn't matter though, since OP [commented they weren't mormons](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1di65bh/aita_for_not_telling_my_mom_that_my_marriage_was/l92xhaa/)
A good mother to OP also wouldn't have put them in the position of feeling like marrying their gay friend was the best option in the first place because they feared being forced to marry some gross old dude from their church by said "good" mother...
Yeah no that makes it ESH
You and your ex did a cool thing for each other in saving each other from miserable futures and getting somewhere safe together
But it's not OK to play the theatrics like that and think it's "funny". That's where you lose me and where you lose any high ground. You could have made your ex very unsafe and the target of a lot of hate and judgement with your little fake victim act.
Just own the fact you did a brave thing originally to get you both away from a terrible situation.
I can see why you did it. But OWN it now you are both safe and be a true ally to your ex and the LGBT community by being truthful
I'm sorry, but respectfully, as a member of the LGBT community, I have some thoughts.
1. It sounds like he was in on it, so she didn't "make him the target of hate and judgement", and they're on the opposite side of the country now. How exactly is he unsafe? He's a grown adult thousands of miles away from the people in his old church that he's cut all ties to. What exactly are they going to do? He's publicly gay now anyway. They knew he was gay when they made the descision to divorce. It's not like she outed him
2. I'm sorry but I just don't have any sympathy for religious biggots who arrange marriages with older men and are so comfortable in their biggotry and control that their children had to *fake marry* each other to escape it. If she wants to fuck with them, in my opinion, she is allowed to. If people are so evil as to actively totally fuck the lives of their children permanently, they can deal with the consequences of their children hating them.
3. Not every descision in someones life has to be a service to the LGBT community. It is their personal lives. The LGBT community is in the exact same spot whether she was truthful from the start or truthful now. Distance and time also make people more comfortable telling the truth. It must be difficult leaving a situation like that. To cut off everyone and everything you grew up with. Maybe as time went on she got more comfortable letting them go.
This is a lot of sympathy for some bad people who don't deserve it. In my opinion, OPs family never had the high ground and could never have the high ground. So how could OP lose it?
I completely agree with you. The sanctimonious handwringing "but what about the LGBT community" is just so... ew. These are two people who lived their life on their terms, honest to each other - they COMMITTED to each other. They may not have been sexually compatible, but they sure as hell were survival compatible. And as OP says, she \*does\* love him. And most certainly he loves her as well. They did what was right FOR THEM, FOR THEIR LIVES. And if they both wanted to poke a stick at the nasty bigots they BOTH escaped, then I'm gonna stand up in the theater and throw flowers at them to express my appreciation for their performance.
They survived a toxic environment. Together. And now both are going on to live wonderful lives as their true selves. That's beautiful. Sucks they had to do it to escape, but now they are free butterflies.
All's well that ends well.
Hubby wanted to completely cut ties with those people anyway so it's not like he *lost* anything, they moved away for a reason.
That said, I don't really get what's 'funny' to pretend your husband's a cheater, it felt more like op just washed her hands, but if the husband's in on it, there's no harm done.
Yeah I think that's what I was trying to explain. I don't think doing that is funny in any way. Even though the ex is in on it, it's not a cool thing to do. It just reminds me of high school mean girls pranks.
I wasn't trying to insinuate they were a massive AH or anything, just that doing that and finding it funny isn't cool and wouldn't be a good habit to get into or do again.
Also, I don't see the point of this theater act if OP was going to then publicly support her ex? I can sort-of understand OP playing the heartbroken wife if she wanted to remain in this community and/or avoid matchmaking for a time, but since she was also going to distance herself and post on social media in support of her ex, why the charade? Not to mention that she didn't have to confess to her mother; shr could have just said she forgave her ex.
This smacks of OP enacting a revenge plot by mocking the stupid hicks behind their back and then doing a reveal., and it's particularly ironic that she seems to believe her parents would never find out.
So you perpetuated shitty stereotypes about gay people being cheaters and liars because you thought it was funny and it got you attention? YTA just for that alone.
I mean, not if the ex-husband thought it was funny tho. Also, these are homophobes, I very much doubt they did not have similar opinions about gay men who come out later in life already. Also YTA implies the mother wasn't, what you're going for is ESH
Yeah, no. She didn't marry herself. Her ex partner was literally in on the joke too. If their families weren't backwards homophobes, none of this would have happened in the first place.
As a queer person, I gotta disagree. Perpetuating the stereotype of the gay man who broke his wife’s heart by lying to her for years, ESPECIALLY when doing so to religious bigots, is SUPER problematic. It doesn’t “troll” the bigots. It just makes them feel justified for hating us. This is really not ok even with the ex’s consent. It’s damaging to the community as a whole. ESH
??? So you think they would hate us less of she had told them from the start that it was a fake marriage? That also would make them hate us. Maybe they shouldn't have gotten married at all? Maybe he should have married a nice church girl and pretended to be straight so he never offended them. Why do we have to live our lives in fear of what biggots who hate us think? That is not how progress happens. Their friends who are less backwards knew the truth. It sounds like the only people who were told the lie were her ex-cult members who now know the truth.
I'm a black woman in the US. When a black person commits a crime and a racist says "see all blacks commit crimes"
That has nothing to do with me. If a racist or a homophobic ass is going to generalize and marginalize a group of people, that's on the racist, not the victims of their racist actions.
Op, is NTA.
There was no cheating mentioned. Also a gay person in a strict church may get married and not even know they are gay because of indoctrination so that is not lying.
But did OP say he cheated or did her family come up with that narrative. I could have missed it so correct me if I’m wrong, but it looking like OPs online posts only mentioned being lied to which, even though he wasn’t actually hiding it from her, he would’ve been if she didn’t know even without cheating
Ya that’s the worst part of all this - it realizes and validates homophobic assumptions that all gay people are hypersexual cheaters who destroy families. It’s a reasonable plan, but could have been handled so much better than secrets and theatrics.
Just saying you grew apart might have been a better way to go about this. Saying you were lied to makes him look like the ah, which technically isn’t fair, as you both agreed to the plan.
This! And also, what’s the point in lying to your mum and then tell her the truth if not to hurt her? Your point that she was a good mother contradicts your actions, so I think you need to do a little soul searching to understand why you’re doing everything you’re doing. ESH.
As far as I'm concerned, you escaped being sold off to a gross older man in the church. It was a brilliant idea that helped you both get away from whatever cult your mom is in that thinks 18yo young women should marry ugly old men.
Tell you mom that you’re sending thoughts and prayers to everyone impacted. They should talk to god to get over it.
You know they’re going to be talking to him anyway. Probably complaining about “the gays”.
YTA for saying that you were lied to and heartbrokem. That allowed you to be buffered from the flak he was getting and was lying for your benefit only.
You could just as easily have said something like, "I am happy he is now able to be true to himself and not hide who he is because of bigots. I care for him and wish him well."
You say she was a good mother to you and also that she tried to marry you off to old men from your church who you didn’t want to marry.
Good mothers don’t do this. She may not know any better if she was indoctrinated in the church from birth, but that still doesn’t make her a good mother.
NTA. Don't blame you one bit. I grew up in the heart of Southern Baptist country. Anyone who didn't conform to a very strict idea of what was acceptable was ostracized, punished and sometimes worse. Murdering gays was looked upon as semi-acceptable. You both did what you had to do to survive and get out. Congratulations on finding a way out of a suffocating existence. And congratulations on the two of you uniting so neither of you had to do it alone as most do. I wish you both the best and wonderful futures.
I mean, you were playing your part as expected in the aftermath of the divorce. It was part of the play.
Did you get a cut of the inheritance? I mean, not legally entitled to it. But you deserve a bonus for your work.
>I did some posts about how heartbroken I was to have been lied my whole marriage
Why, though? This just feels like you left your friend-"ex" out to dry, as if it was all HIS fault for lying and tricking you, which would protect YOU from any backlash at that point. You could've just come straight out and said "I'm happy he can now live the life he always wanted, I've known for long". It just seems like you were covering for yourself if you say you played the heartbroken wife. What was going to happen, your family would disown you? Like you made sure they did in the end?
"Since we both like theatrics, I played the poor heartbroken wife who just discovered her marriage was a lie part. It was funny seeing the reactions of the people, except for our new friends because we were honest about our arrangement from the beginning. "
It sounds like he was in on it, and this was strictly for the churchgoers back home.
NTA for helping a friend in need, but the way you express yourself kind of makes you look like TA. There was no reason to make theatricals about it, also I hope the wedding wasn't too expensive since it was a hoax.
If you aren't compatible with your family you don't have to be in their lives, but don't continue being a fake person/liar. There will come a time when you will be telling the truth, but no one will believe you.
I'm glad I found your comment because I was shocked at all of the NTA answers. I was a bit more sympathetic to OP until I got to that part of the story. I doubt this is the first time she didn't handle things as an adult and flippantly disregarded everyone else's feelings.
>grows up incredibly sheltered in a church
>Doesn't handle things as an adult
Ya, that checks out. And since it was mainly other churchies that got the brunt of it, I'm all for it.
The way I see it, it was their bigotry that forced them to lie in order to be left alone.
Also, if the feelings that get hurt are feelings about how homosexuals are evil I will not feel sorry.
Yeah that felt unnecessary to me. I dont doubt these people made her life hell for years, but I feel like she stooped to their level with that.
If she really wanted to get back at them, just keep living your best life. Nothing pisses a bigot off more than seeing the people they're bigoted against being happy
Yeah, I feel her coming out saying she knew all along and now they're both 'free' from that community would've pissed them even more than pretending she was deceived.
Meh, she was following social obligations. These church groups always want you to project the allowed feelings and nothing else. Do you think arranged marriage with older man would be a real out of love marriage? Of course not, but you would still be expected to pretend.
Those people got exactly what they raise kids to do and what they themselves do on daily basis.
Agree. None of these people are worth worrying too much about. You're fine, OP. You protected a friend and got yourselves the hell away from that church. Everyone else will be fine, too. Leave them in the dust or deal with their drama; your choice.
Yes - There's nothing wrong with the sham marriage or getting out of the sham marriage. OP never should have been in the position where it was necessary.
But ESH, OP less than the parents. They suck for being bigots. OP sucks for pretending to be heartbroken about the breakup. No need to come right out and say "it was a sham from the get-go" but why pretend?
Everyone is "we support abuse victims" right up until the victims tries to escape their abusers best they can, then you all show the pocket abusers you are.
NTA. This is a beautiful story that can still have a beautiful ending of "And then I blocked all of my bigoted family on every platform and way possible and found my real love and passion in \*insert hobby, person, pets here\* The end!"
What you two did was very sweet, I don't see anything wrong with what you did. You both helped each other in a time of need to extricate yourselves from a situation of hate and fearmongering. I hope you two stay close friends and you both find the love of your life - even if that love is a passion project or hobby.
They should have broken ties with the church(and therfor the faimly unfortunately) right after high school. Though I don't blame them for not doing so. It would have been a lot better for them, I feel. As I had the worst member of my family, being the most religious, it's hard not to make that connection.
Your Mom wasn't a good mother. Good mothers want what is best for their children and they encourage their growth, not pin them down with their own prejudices and biases.
So, she probably fed you, bought you clothes, made sure you went to school... but she wasn't supportive and still isn't.
At some point you might want to check out therapy, or at least read some books about growing past your family and into your own.
Yeah, such wonderful parents, offering up their young and (mostly?) innocent daughter to guys who probably fantasized about nailing her when she was younger.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Even if her parents gave her a financially stable home, they were religious zealots who encouraged their daughter to have relationships with men who were clearly not age-appropriate with good intentions. It’s a form of @buse.
OP, you did right by your ex. I’m glad you guys were able to rely on each other while you broke free of those toxic bonds. NTA
As a gay man who enjoys the company of many wonderful straight female allies, I love you for this. For protecting him from his horrible family and the church and for protecting his spirit from being destroyed. I hope that you guys have a friendship you’ll cherish forever. You probably saved that man’s life!!
Having a beard is a time-honored tradition amongst gay people in the closet. As long as both members of the marriage know about it, it's often the best of a bad situation.
I’ve definitely heard of it before and I’m glad it wasn’t something I had to do to protect myself and my peace. I have my own trauma but I’m just happy to see that they were able to help each other and be happy with how everything ended up :)
I don’t either. As a gay guy though I just hate to see men who still feel the need to have a beard in 2024. Unless they’re financially dependent on their homophobic family, they should just cut them off and live their life.
They probably were. And now that they are independent they don't have to go along with it anymore.
Unfortunately there are still pockets where there's a huge stigma about being queer. I'm lucky that I grew up in a super accepting household. But whatever they had to do to survive, I'm glad they got out.
NTA. You and your ex went into the marriage fully aware of the situation, and why you were getting married. You’ve both decided it’s time to move on and he’s going to live his life authentically for the first time. Your family (specifically your mother) is the problem. She has to butt out and let it go. Honestly, threatening you doesn’t seem like “good mother” material. Does she want to let her bigotry ruin her relationship with you?
*”Why are you so upset? You wanted me to marry someone from the same church, and I did.”*
(Of course, this might tip mumsy into an apoplectic rage, but try saying it in your absolute sweetest voice.)
NTA
NTA.
Your parents were trying to control your life in a completely inappropriate and controlling way. Religious instruction may be part of good parenting but that ends at age 18 and they should not be trying to control who you marry. So they deserve what they got.
Clearly the opinion of those in her community is all your mom can think of, and so programmed into her that she thinks informing everyone of your "betrayal" is somehow punishment to you. It's up to her whether she thinks the sympathy for her will outweigh the judgment of her. It matters not at all to you.
Not sure what you mean by her putting "a lot of effort into helping us in our marriage" but if that included something like a major down payment on a house, I can see you veering into AH territory.
Absolutely NTA. Your life, your choices. Maybe if your families weren't part of a cult that would treat people in a shitty way for their life choices, you wouldn't have had to do any of this.
My wife is from an incredibly cult-like Lutheran branch. I was her way out (That is not what our relationship is built upon, but it gave her a way out of the "church"). Other members had been disowned, ex-communicated and treated like lepers for leaving, coming out, or making life choices the church didn't agree on. Luckily, her immediate family has not been opposed to our relationship, outside of initially blaming me for her leaving the church.
I'm terribly sorry you are having to go through this and having to deal with your family treating you this way.
Wait wait wait…was your wife from the WELS? I grew up in the WELS and it was like a cult for me. I left and am much happier now that I can breathe. People get offended when I say the WELS is a cult, but it’s the truth.
Ahhh. I know the ELS is also “in unity” with the WELS. And the LCMS is more middle of the road but still pretty conservative.
I’m glad your wife got out. We don’t need any more oppressive cults in the USA.
There really is no hate like Christian love. NTA both you and your ex are lucky to have each other. That type of unconditional love and support is rare. Your parents sure taught you what true love doesn't look like.
INFO:
>That just set her off because she had put a lot of effort into helping us in our marriage
What did this entail?
* I could see her being upset if she thought you were going into it planning for it to be a forever love based marriage.
* If she invited a bunch of poor relatives to travel to wedding and endure hardship to attend & then has to tell them you planned from the start to divorce once his parents passed I could see that being upsetting to those who traveled.
* I could see her being upset if she was the one who supported you when you called about fights/disagreements and you knew the whole time you later planned on divorcing.
* I could see her being upset if she paid for your "only" wedding/honeymoon & you never intended to stay married.
If you paid for 100% of the wedding and communicated to all those who made sacrifices to be there that the wedding was just for show & the marriage was a cover up that's one thing, but if you didn't and there is at least some amount of Asshole-ness associated with taking the money and running.
I could see her being upset if she was the one who supported you when you called about fights/disagreements and you knew the whole time you later planned on divorcing.
This never happened, my ex husband and I never had one single argument or misunderstanding. We were the best roommates, and very close friends, and we did a lot of things together. I helped him have "experiences" with men while I could do whatever I wanted too. When we divorced he asked me "do you want to divorce?" and I was like "ok".
Both our families paid for the wedding. We paid for our "honeymoon" (vacation).
I'm guessing your family would have paid for the wedding anyway if you were married to somebody else. Thankfully it was to someone you consider a friend than to an old codger who may or may not have treated you right.
I can see why some commenters are upset about you playing up the "heartbroken wife" theatrics. But, if your ex was okay with it (since he probably bore the brunt of the backlash from relatives, etc.), I'd say you are NTA.
This. People are going on like she had a Go Fund Me account or was trying to milk the situation. She probably made one or two posts on FB or IG and made a weepy call to her mom to continue the charade, then let her guard down and someone tattled to her mom. If their parents weren't trying to get them married off, especially her mom to older guys, they wouldn't have had the sham marriage in the first place. Now they've distanced themselves from that community and moved away and started their own real lives, albeit separately. Good for them. Maybe she needs to go low contact with her mom. NTA.
Honestly, if they weren't shitty religious muppets then you two wouldn't have had to get married in the first place. Their church-induced assholiness created those costs and they paid for them of their own free will. Seems only fair to me.
If she paid for a wedding she has ever-so-slightly more of a leg to stand on in being upset at you. That said, people get married every day for reasons unrelated to romantic love, and a partnership without sex or romantic love isn't less valid (morally, ethically, or legally) than one that is based on those things. NTA.
Seriously, the op and the ex-husband made a smart move. If not, the op would end up with some gross old man having and stay livelong being a part of the church, and her ex-husband would have wife and children where there would only be resentment both the sides.
And the mom would only think about what would the people in the community would think.
>If she paid for a wedding she has ever-so-slightly more of a leg to stand on in being upset at you.
NOPE. Mom was the one insisting on a wedding and marriage. If she'd cared about OP's feelings in the matter there wouldn't have been a wedding to pay for.
Mother has zero leg to stand on since she intended to hand her off to a "creepy old man" just because he was of the same religion.
Frankly, OP's marriage is more traditional than any marry for love marriage.
NTA your parents didn’t care who you married, they just wanted you married. They tried to set you up with people you’d never love. So instead you set yourself up with someone you do love!!
NTA. It doesn't seem like you wanted to stay connected in that family/community anyway. Your ex sounds like a better support than your mum would be, anyway
I'm sorry you both felt forced into being Machiavellian in order to live your lives.
I'm glad he's found his happy and I hope you do to, if you haven't yet.
NTA
Hi everyone. This got way more attention than I imagined, thanks yall. I just want to say something about my mom. Yes I think she is a good mom, at least compared to other people's moms in the community I had grown in. Of course she wasn't perfect but I'm glad she had never layed a hand on me. She was also married off to a much older man right after highschool, who is my dad, so for her it was normal and saw nothing wrong about it, but I didn't want that at all, part of that was having my dad as a reference because he is horrible but I'm not talking about it. I can see know that we should have taken our secret to the grave, but as you might say, the cat is now out of the bag and honestly, I don't care about anybody back home, my mom, dad, siblings, former friends, I don't care about them. Some of them have a bad image of me because I got divorced anyway. Thanks again for your support.
I grew up in the church and was told to pray the gay away when I was ten and started crushing on other girls, they also wanted me to marry a creepy older man and stay in the Mormon church. You helped him, and saved yourself from a lifetime of misery and what ifs. I think that there's nothing wrong with telling her it was a sham, got to see how reputation is more important than your happiness, and it show her that she has no control over your life or decisions. Despite your upbringing you ended up a good person.
Thank you for being an ally to the community, and I hope whatever is next for you brings you the happiness you deserve.
NTA - ngl its kinda AHish to make people go through the whole ordeal of a wedding when its all a sham. But if thats what you two needed to do to get out of that situation, have at it.
I mean, the wedding to a gross old man would have also been a sham, so I feel like they are used to showing up for sham weddings. NTA. And maybe time to revisit what being a "good mother" means, because I don't think it was modeled for you.
Somewhat the a-hole. There's nothing wrong with being a beard. You were just helping out a friend in a bad situation. It is weird and a little insensitive that you played up the heartbroken divorcee.
NTA - your mom thought she had control over the situation and realized you're an autonomous person. It can be a hard pill to swallow, especially for the super churchy. Her feelings are hers and not her responsibility. If she wanted an honest relationship with her daughter she could have provided an environment in which that could flourish but chose not to.
Nta . If they hadn’t tried to force you into some weird arranged marriage this wouldn’t have even happened . You and him did the right thing for yourselves
ESH - I don't agree with anything your parents and church did, and I don't see an issue with you two getting married to escape that situation. However, you are absolutely the asshole for playing the poor, heartbroken ex wife when that wasn't the case. You manipulated people into thinking you were grieving all because you "like theatrics." I also think you should have talked to your ex husband before telling your mother the truth. How will this affect him and his life?
I don't think it will affect the ex husband. They moved far away, and his parents are dead. There is no mention of any other family who might come after him. I don't see members of that church going to all the trouble to drive for who knows how long just to go confront someone who already left the religion. I think he's free at this point.
NTA. You both did a good thing for each other and it's very possible you saved each other's lives. Your mother was so desperate for you to marry someone in the church that she was willing to give you away to a man twice your age. Why listen to her now? Her judgement obviously can't be trusted.
I'm glad your friend can now be himself and I hope you find the same happiness.
NTA you both did what was best for yourselves and helped each other in a way that wouldn't have been possible if they were in the know. Besides, what business is it of hers in the long run?
Honestly, I was stressed and was a way to say Fuck you to my mom. At the moment, I thought that saying that to her to make her drown in her anger would be better than trying to explain myself for something so insignificant.
No judgement
I'd say the main thing you did wrong here was tell your mom. I mean you had to know she would go nuclear, so I'm not sure why you told her unless you wanted her to cut herself and your family out of your life, because it sounds like that will be the most likely result. Or maybe you felt like sticking your thumb in her eye. Either way you had to know what the outcome would be, so as long as you're okay with what happens, shrug.
NTA
I’m not a fan of you perpetuating your ex to be a stereotypical cheating gay man who used you as a cover up. But having grown up in a fundie cult, I also get the conditioning behind it.
Best I can suggest is you get some intense therapy. You were taught to handle life the way your religion handles life, and if you spend your adulthood learning how to be a normal person who handles things properly you’re going to face years of actual heartbreak as you lose relationships and friendships for poor communication and management. Not many people want to be around someone who’s probably going to secretly shit on them behind their backs to appease their religious family for long.
I’m don’t think anyone has the right to you the a**hole. If your ex-husband was fine with it, that’s all that matters. NTA
Obviously your family are the a**holes.
NTA. You had the right to do anything to keep yourself safe.
He wasn’t safe around his parents and their church.
You weren’t safe around your parents and their church.
He would have been at the very least shamed, bullied and mistreated at the worst beaten, homeless or send to a conversion camp.
Your would have been forced to marry an old man, being raped, abused and forced to bring children into this world. Dream marriage for a creep, “man of religion” who goes after underage school girls.
Your parents have no right to complain when the options they gave you were a life of misery.
NTA. Your mom only cares because she hates what her ex-SIL is. If she really wanted you to marry someone you loved then she wouldn't have tried to marry you off to gross predatory men.
NTA Congratulations to your ex on his first Pride month! Congratulations to you for being an ally. You two could come up with a brilliant documentary, book or play.
Your family tried to marry you off to older men, just because they went to the same church. Her feelings don't matter at all. Let her stew in her bigotry, and ve grateful that you and your ex got out before they severely hurt you both. NTA.
NTA. I can see why you and your ex handled it that way. He was cutting off all ties to that old life and didn’t care what they thought because he already knew how they would react. And by you being the poor lied to wife, that meant you were able to keep the peace with your family since you were not planning on cutting them off.
That changed when your mom found out and you just said whatever at that point because what’s done is done. No going back and may as well own it.
I get it. Tho, your parents will likely never forgive you. Personally, at this point I would just end up going LC or NC with them and anyone from your church or family who can’t just let it go since none of it is anyone’s business but your ex and yourself.
So very much not the asshole. And a nice Pride story. The assholes in this situation are the homophobes who can't keep their prejudices to themselves.
NTA
Lying is wrong...but bigotry and hatred and rejection is...wronger. People who grow up in those types of religious families often do what it takes to survive. Your mom won't accept that without her entire understanding of reality dismantling, so don't count on her coming around
NTA
> I played the poor heartbroken wife who just discovered her marriage was a lie part
almost the AH for making your family think you were heartbroken, buuuut, they are homophobes, NTA.
NTA, since you both knew the score. I'm not going to judge you for self-preservation.
They're still not getting it. This is why people like your ex kill themselves. This is why they marry people like you, who can tell their spouses don't really love them and are heartbreakingly twisting themselves into pretzels wondering what they're doing wrong.
I hope you both succeed in creating a found family in light of the lousy hand you were dealt.
NTA What your mom is really mad about is that you escaped her clutches and the church. You got out of there, and you freed someone else while you were at it. You're a rock star.
NTA. I actually enjoyed reading your story, and you sound like you are 100% OK with the choices that you made, and I see nothing wrong with it, because you are happy and he’s happy.
I understand, having to deal with parents like yours, but you both are adults and made your choices freely and with full knowledge of what you were doing and why you were doing it.
It’s nice to know that you’re still friends and supportive. I wish you both nothing but the best in your future.
NTA. I can gather from the comments that you didn't weaponize or otherwise tried to profit from the marriage or divorce and at the risk of sounding all Internet Atheist, I'm sorry you live in a culture where this level of lying was necessary in order for both of you to remain generally happy and not pressured by your "community".
ESH. Your parents didn't do the right thing in pushing you to get married, but you shouldn't have told everyone who would listen (except for new friends) how your husband "lied to you". People around the world get married for all kinds of reasons - financial, green card, arranged marriage, love, etc. You should have owned your reasons and said if you were being pushed to marry, you both wanted to marry a friend.
YTA just for seemingly playing with others' emotions and acting all sad about it. you made your Fake Husband get all the fire when you could have been a friend
When you said to your mum that you had known all along, couldn’t you have said that you married him because you thought you could make him straight? That should have kept you in your mum’s good graces.
NTA for not telling her from the beginning.
NTA.
i think the playing the part of broken hearted wife was prob unnecessary, but it was with good intentions so i don't wont and cant knock it.
Hope you find a new partner soon too!. You deserve happiness just as much as yer Ex!
NTA. You could do almost anything to escape a church and not be the AH. Of course the people from that church won’t see it that way but in my eyes you are free from guilt.
NTA.
Your family and their cult are abusive.
I am so proud of both you and your ex for escaping your abusive relatives and the cult they tried to trap you both in. I hope that both you and your ex love amazing lives full of happiness and especially freedom. Especially freedom from misguided guilt that your abusive parents have been trying to push onto you. You and your ex husband maintain those boundaries and know when to hire lawyers to warn your mom and other relatives to back off and away from your boundaries.
NTA. You both did to protect yourselves from your parents’ overbearing expectations and to extricate yourselves from your parents’ church. Doing this isn’t easy, so you had to do what you could. You were a prisoner of your parents’ (let’s be honest) cult, and it is the obligation of every prisoner to escape. And now you are doing what you are supposed to be doing - living your own life, not letting your parents live it for you.
NTA You played the part you needed to separate yourself from what sounds like a very toxic environment. If this is the way your mother found out your marriage was a sham, that just goes to show how much she actually knows you.
NTA
Your “marriage” helped keep you safe and helped you get out of a bad situation. The only people you truly lied to were the people putting you in that bad situation to begin with.
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INFO: When you say "I played the poor heartbroken wife who just discovered her marriage was a lie part" did you actually try to solicit comfort and support from people? Because if so then for sure E S H Edit: Also, how extravagant was the wedding? Did people have to travel for it and did they send gifts? If so that also adds to the potential E S H aspect of it
No, the wedding was at the church, family and friends, weddings are still expensive anyway because everything has a wedding tax, but we had the essentials. Also I did not solicit support from people, I did some posts about how heartbroken I was to have been lied my whole marriage, and people came with "thoughts and prayers" and "talk to god".
That's fair, still kind of ass hole-y to fake the heart break story knowing what kind of reactions it would get from people, but they're homophobes so I think you can get a pass
Agreed, she played the victim to look better than to just come out with the truth.. shitty but if this story is true I could see why she did it, and if he was ok with being the asshole in this situation than oh well.
It sounded to me like he was in on it too. It seems fair enough given their arrangement and that it also seems like he wanted to totally cut ties with everyone in their past church and she is still in contact with her parents.
I feel the intent was to explicitly troll their old community/family/friends, since op said their reactions were 'funny' and their new circle of friends were aware it was all just a cover up. Playing the heartbroken victim would be redundant otherwise.
Exactly. If OP's ex was in on it too, then this seems more like a "mess with the bigots" thing than her just wanting attention.
Yep. And I find that hilarious. NTA OP. 👏👏👏
Same.
Some bridges are just so lovely to see blazing...
But she apparently "played the victim" with the full consent/approval of husband because they both Love Drama?
Honestly, petty is as petty does, the religious aspect of it brings cult like vibes with the way they are trying to arrange the marriage to older men. She wanted out, he wanted out, this scenario lets you mess with people who have made life unbearable to you for a while. Honestly I say NTA but some really petty reasoning on the divorce storyline.
Honestly, I'm here for messing with bigots. It might be petty but if they're the kind of people throwing slurs around and attempting to arrange inappropriate age gap marriages for their daughters then they deserve to be messed with. Those people don't learn from compassion when they're that far indoctrinated.
And it wasn’t even to mess with them. It was for a combination of their sanity and likely his safety
That's what I'm thinking. Some of these cults... erm, traditionalist sects, will make sure to go out of their way to avoid contact with someone that has brought a double shame upon the house, so they would definitely stay away from him.
Yep, as evidenced by how ops mom acted after finding out the real truth. So much unnecessary hate in the world.
There is no kind of hate like Christian love.
Yeah that kind of thing. Like they're not going to like him anyways, and we just saw what op mom did after finding out the truth so honestly, the lie about being heartbroken seems like it was the correct route. They're already going to be pissed, this way op got to control the narrative and after that long of dealing with oppression, sure, why not, that's the least op could have done, ya know?
I’m sure OP actually helped them out, imagine the amount of gossip, “praying,” and sermon fodder their choices created for their cult community to feed upon. Not sure there were any actual “victims” in this “crime.”
NTA. What you did was be an ally for your friend and avoid being pressured into an unwanted marriage. It was a strategy for you both to stay safe. Making a dramatic exit also served to create another barrier for your ex from your old church. You omitted the reasons why you got married. Your mom is not able to hear the reality because she is a big part of why you all did what you did. It doesn’t feel good to feel like you were tricked and deceived. Nobody likes that. But no one deserves to be subjected to relentless homophobia and bigotry or having restrictions on choices and reduced autonomy as an adult by there parents. You all made the best choice you could given the circumstances. You were strong and brave. And your mom’s reactions are evidence to why you all needed to do what you did. I hope you and your ex find that happiness and good life as you keep forging a new path outside of what you were brought up in.
Religious curch like she describes it being forced into marriage like young muslim girls. Yup fucking lunatics, hats off for the girl to get the fuck away from these fucking nutjobs. Religion is a cult, always has been.
I think if we're to answer the question clinically, then op is the ah...but this is one of the rare situations where I couldn't care less if they are technically bad. I wouldn't be able to resist mocking the homophobes either.
I think you're reading that the wrong way. Read it as, "victim of religious abuse finds way to survive stress and social pressure".
YES! Feed the bigots for your amusement, and let the immovable sexist homophobes writhe in consternation! It's a win/win!
Imo Reddit is just too anti prank. That shit is funny af and really only messes with homophobes and religious people that are indoctrinated to a hateful degree. Hard to imagine the ex husband wasn't sitting next to her laughing while she made the post.
She likely had to play into the part of a heartbroken wife to make the fake marriage and divorce believable, and to not arouse suspicion from the family and other church-oriented members. The type of religious people she describes are really weird about getting involved in your personal life to strange degrees, and it's not uncommon for lavender marriages to take place and the 'couple' have to make up lies for peace and solitude.
Her heartbreak story was really to protect her parents.
You say she is a good mother to you, but she is threatening to out you for marrying your gay friend as a form of potential punishment to control you. That's not a good mother. You guys lied for a reason, and that reason is currently losing her shit, thus justifying it.
That is such a mormon thing to do. She didn’t mention what church it is, but is giving me mormon vibes
Eh, I don't think so. Was raised mormon and the vibes aren't right for it being them. I'd think more it's a Bible belt cult if this is the US based on what one of my friends who was raised in one has told me.
seems like christianity to me 🤷♀️
But were you raised Utah mormon? Because I was raised mormon too and I’ve seen this happening a lot. It also applies to a lot of other christian cults and as I mentioned before, the OP didn’t specify which church.
World: Utah Mormons are extreme. Idaho Mormons: hold my root beer.
Yes I was. Not provo mormon, but still utah mormon. If it was mormon there would have been the parental pressure for ex-husband to go on a mission, not for them to get married out of high school. Also while the Mormons are definitely the majority of the Utah population, it isn't as cultish about staying in the community as OPs post sounds because Mormons want to spread the good word. Lastly nobody I grew up with had their parents trying to introduce them to older men to marry out of high school, that sounds more FLDS than LDS. Doesn't matter though, since OP [commented they weren't mormons](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1di65bh/aita_for_not_telling_my_mom_that_my_marriage_was/l92xhaa/)
A good mother to OP also wouldn't have put them in the position of feeling like marrying their gay friend was the best option in the first place because they feared being forced to marry some gross old dude from their church by said "good" mother...
Yeah no that makes it ESH You and your ex did a cool thing for each other in saving each other from miserable futures and getting somewhere safe together But it's not OK to play the theatrics like that and think it's "funny". That's where you lose me and where you lose any high ground. You could have made your ex very unsafe and the target of a lot of hate and judgement with your little fake victim act. Just own the fact you did a brave thing originally to get you both away from a terrible situation. I can see why you did it. But OWN it now you are both safe and be a true ally to your ex and the LGBT community by being truthful
I'm sorry, but respectfully, as a member of the LGBT community, I have some thoughts. 1. It sounds like he was in on it, so she didn't "make him the target of hate and judgement", and they're on the opposite side of the country now. How exactly is he unsafe? He's a grown adult thousands of miles away from the people in his old church that he's cut all ties to. What exactly are they going to do? He's publicly gay now anyway. They knew he was gay when they made the descision to divorce. It's not like she outed him 2. I'm sorry but I just don't have any sympathy for religious biggots who arrange marriages with older men and are so comfortable in their biggotry and control that their children had to *fake marry* each other to escape it. If she wants to fuck with them, in my opinion, she is allowed to. If people are so evil as to actively totally fuck the lives of their children permanently, they can deal with the consequences of their children hating them. 3. Not every descision in someones life has to be a service to the LGBT community. It is their personal lives. The LGBT community is in the exact same spot whether she was truthful from the start or truthful now. Distance and time also make people more comfortable telling the truth. It must be difficult leaving a situation like that. To cut off everyone and everything you grew up with. Maybe as time went on she got more comfortable letting them go. This is a lot of sympathy for some bad people who don't deserve it. In my opinion, OPs family never had the high ground and could never have the high ground. So how could OP lose it?
I completely agree with you. The sanctimonious handwringing "but what about the LGBT community" is just so... ew. These are two people who lived their life on their terms, honest to each other - they COMMITTED to each other. They may not have been sexually compatible, but they sure as hell were survival compatible. And as OP says, she \*does\* love him. And most certainly he loves her as well. They did what was right FOR THEM, FOR THEIR LIVES. And if they both wanted to poke a stick at the nasty bigots they BOTH escaped, then I'm gonna stand up in the theater and throw flowers at them to express my appreciation for their performance. They survived a toxic environment. Together. And now both are going on to live wonderful lives as their true selves. That's beautiful. Sucks they had to do it to escape, but now they are free butterflies. All's well that ends well.
I was under the impression he was in on it?
Hubby wanted to completely cut ties with those people anyway so it's not like he *lost* anything, they moved away for a reason. That said, I don't really get what's 'funny' to pretend your husband's a cheater, it felt more like op just washed her hands, but if the husband's in on it, there's no harm done.
Yeah I think that's what I was trying to explain. I don't think doing that is funny in any way. Even though the ex is in on it, it's not a cool thing to do. It just reminds me of high school mean girls pranks. I wasn't trying to insinuate they were a massive AH or anything, just that doing that and finding it funny isn't cool and wouldn't be a good habit to get into or do again.
Also, I don't see the point of this theater act if OP was going to then publicly support her ex? I can sort-of understand OP playing the heartbroken wife if she wanted to remain in this community and/or avoid matchmaking for a time, but since she was also going to distance herself and post on social media in support of her ex, why the charade? Not to mention that she didn't have to confess to her mother; shr could have just said she forgave her ex. This smacks of OP enacting a revenge plot by mocking the stupid hicks behind their back and then doing a reveal., and it's particularly ironic that she seems to believe her parents would never find out.
So you perpetuated shitty stereotypes about gay people being cheaters and liars because you thought it was funny and it got you attention? YTA just for that alone.
I mean, not if the ex-husband thought it was funny tho. Also, these are homophobes, I very much doubt they did not have similar opinions about gay men who come out later in life already. Also YTA implies the mother wasn't, what you're going for is ESH
Yeah, no. She didn't marry herself. Her ex partner was literally in on the joke too. If their families weren't backwards homophobes, none of this would have happened in the first place.
As a queer person, I gotta disagree. Perpetuating the stereotype of the gay man who broke his wife’s heart by lying to her for years, ESPECIALLY when doing so to religious bigots, is SUPER problematic. It doesn’t “troll” the bigots. It just makes them feel justified for hating us. This is really not ok even with the ex’s consent. It’s damaging to the community as a whole. ESH
They already feel justified in hating us!! Lmao let them have their fun and troll the idiots
??? So you think they would hate us less of she had told them from the start that it was a fake marriage? That also would make them hate us. Maybe they shouldn't have gotten married at all? Maybe he should have married a nice church girl and pretended to be straight so he never offended them. Why do we have to live our lives in fear of what biggots who hate us think? That is not how progress happens. Their friends who are less backwards knew the truth. It sounds like the only people who were told the lie were her ex-cult members who now know the truth.
I'm a black woman in the US. When a black person commits a crime and a racist says "see all blacks commit crimes" That has nothing to do with me. If a racist or a homophobic ass is going to generalize and marginalize a group of people, that's on the racist, not the victims of their racist actions. Op, is NTA.
There was no cheating mentioned. Also a gay person in a strict church may get married and not even know they are gay because of indoctrination so that is not lying.
But did OP say he cheated or did her family come up with that narrative. I could have missed it so correct me if I’m wrong, but it looking like OPs online posts only mentioned being lied to which, even though he wasn’t actually hiding it from her, he would’ve been if she didn’t know even without cheating
I didn’t see anything about cheating either.
Yeah. I thought it was brilliant until I read that part.
Ya that’s the worst part of all this - it realizes and validates homophobic assumptions that all gay people are hypersexual cheaters who destroy families. It’s a reasonable plan, but could have been handled so much better than secrets and theatrics.
Nah, the worst part of it is that she had to enter a fake marriage to escape her parents marrying her off to old perverts.
>So you perpetuated shitty stereotypes about gay people being cheaters and liars Never heard of that being an exclusively gay thing.
Just saying you grew apart might have been a better way to go about this. Saying you were lied to makes him look like the ah, which technically isn’t fair, as you both agreed to the plan.
This! And also, what’s the point in lying to your mum and then tell her the truth if not to hurt her? Your point that she was a good mother contradicts your actions, so I think you need to do a little soul searching to understand why you’re doing everything you’re doing. ESH.
As far as I'm concerned, you escaped being sold off to a gross older man in the church. It was a brilliant idea that helped you both get away from whatever cult your mom is in that thinks 18yo young women should marry ugly old men.
YNTA This isn't asshole-y at all. Navigate your abusive family relationships however you feel safest.
Tell you mom that you’re sending thoughts and prayers to everyone impacted. They should talk to god to get over it. You know they’re going to be talking to him anyway. Probably complaining about “the gays”.
YTA for saying that you were lied to and heartbrokem. That allowed you to be buffered from the flak he was getting and was lying for your benefit only. You could just as easily have said something like, "I am happy he is now able to be true to himself and not hide who he is because of bigots. I care for him and wish him well."
You say she was a good mother to you and also that she tried to marry you off to old men from your church who you didn’t want to marry. Good mothers don’t do this. She may not know any better if she was indoctrinated in the church from birth, but that still doesn’t make her a good mother.
NTA. Don't blame you one bit. I grew up in the heart of Southern Baptist country. Anyone who didn't conform to a very strict idea of what was acceptable was ostracized, punished and sometimes worse. Murdering gays was looked upon as semi-acceptable. You both did what you had to do to survive and get out. Congratulations on finding a way out of a suffocating existence. And congratulations on the two of you uniting so neither of you had to do it alone as most do. I wish you both the best and wonderful futures.
I mean, you were playing your part as expected in the aftermath of the divorce. It was part of the play. Did you get a cut of the inheritance? I mean, not legally entitled to it. But you deserve a bonus for your work.
>I did some posts about how heartbroken I was to have been lied my whole marriage Why, though? This just feels like you left your friend-"ex" out to dry, as if it was all HIS fault for lying and tricking you, which would protect YOU from any backlash at that point. You could've just come straight out and said "I'm happy he can now live the life he always wanted, I've known for long". It just seems like you were covering for yourself if you say you played the heartbroken wife. What was going to happen, your family would disown you? Like you made sure they did in the end?
INFO: was your ex husband aware and okay with you doing that, or did you just decide to do it?
"Since we both like theatrics, I played the poor heartbroken wife who just discovered her marriage was a lie part. It was funny seeing the reactions of the people, except for our new friends because we were honest about our arrangement from the beginning. " It sounds like he was in on it, and this was strictly for the churchgoers back home.
Yes.
I wonder if your mother will live to regret telling everyone. Happily, you aren't living there, and electronic messages can be blocked.
I love this pettiness, you guys did good
NTA for helping a friend in need, but the way you express yourself kind of makes you look like TA. There was no reason to make theatricals about it, also I hope the wedding wasn't too expensive since it was a hoax. If you aren't compatible with your family you don't have to be in their lives, but don't continue being a fake person/liar. There will come a time when you will be telling the truth, but no one will believe you.
Was it like a Mormon temple wedding?
I don't know. I think it was smart to do that, to protect yourself for a time, and both of you are okay now so you can give it up.
I'm glad I found your comment because I was shocked at all of the NTA answers. I was a bit more sympathetic to OP until I got to that part of the story. I doubt this is the first time she didn't handle things as an adult and flippantly disregarded everyone else's feelings.
>grows up incredibly sheltered in a church >Doesn't handle things as an adult Ya, that checks out. And since it was mainly other churchies that got the brunt of it, I'm all for it.
The way I see it, it was their bigotry that forced them to lie in order to be left alone. Also, if the feelings that get hurt are feelings about how homosexuals are evil I will not feel sorry.
Agreed 👍
Yeah that felt unnecessary to me. I dont doubt these people made her life hell for years, but I feel like she stooped to their level with that. If she really wanted to get back at them, just keep living your best life. Nothing pisses a bigot off more than seeing the people they're bigoted against being happy
I'm guessing you've never been victimized by the kind of church she's talking about?
Yeah, I feel her coming out saying she knew all along and now they're both 'free' from that community would've pissed them even more than pretending she was deceived.
Meh, she was following social obligations. These church groups always want you to project the allowed feelings and nothing else. Do you think arranged marriage with older man would be a real out of love marriage? Of course not, but you would still be expected to pretend. Those people got exactly what they raise kids to do and what they themselves do on daily basis.
I think the parents trying to force her into marriage with gross older men from their church negates any money spent due to subterfuge.
Agree. None of these people are worth worrying too much about. You're fine, OP. You protected a friend and got yourselves the hell away from that church. Everyone else will be fine, too. Leave them in the dust or deal with their drama; your choice.
Yes - There's nothing wrong with the sham marriage or getting out of the sham marriage. OP never should have been in the position where it was necessary. But ESH, OP less than the parents. They suck for being bigots. OP sucks for pretending to be heartbroken about the breakup. No need to come right out and say "it was a sham from the get-go" but why pretend?
In my opinion, I think people trying to survive abuse get a pass where we might otherwise expect better. It's not easy.
Everyone is "we support abuse victims" right up until the victims tries to escape their abusers best they can, then you all show the pocket abusers you are.
NTA. This is a beautiful story that can still have a beautiful ending of "And then I blocked all of my bigoted family on every platform and way possible and found my real love and passion in \*insert hobby, person, pets here\* The end!" What you two did was very sweet, I don't see anything wrong with what you did. You both helped each other in a time of need to extricate yourselves from a situation of hate and fearmongering. I hope you two stay close friends and you both find the love of your life - even if that love is a passion project or hobby.
They should have broken ties with the church(and therfor the faimly unfortunately) right after high school. Though I don't blame them for not doing so. It would have been a lot better for them, I feel. As I had the worst member of my family, being the most religious, it's hard not to make that connection.
Your Mom wasn't a good mother. Good mothers want what is best for their children and they encourage their growth, not pin them down with their own prejudices and biases. So, she probably fed you, bought you clothes, made sure you went to school... but she wasn't supportive and still isn't. At some point you might want to check out therapy, or at least read some books about growing past your family and into your own.
Yeah the whole introducing your teenage daughter to older men 🤦🏻♀️ good mother written all over it
BuT tHeY weRe MeN of GOOOOOODDDDD
That gave me the ick.
Religious people give me the ick
Me too
I'm learning that radical religion is probably the most destructive force on the planet.
Religion is inherently radical. It programs people’s minds to replace reality with fantasy.
Yeah, such wonderful parents, offering up their young and (mostly?) innocent daughter to guys who probably fantasized about nailing her when she was younger.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Even if her parents gave her a financially stable home, they were religious zealots who encouraged their daughter to have relationships with men who were clearly not age-appropriate with good intentions. It’s a form of @buse. OP, you did right by your ex. I’m glad you guys were able to rely on each other while you broke free of those toxic bonds. NTA
As a gay man who enjoys the company of many wonderful straight female allies, I love you for this. For protecting him from his horrible family and the church and for protecting his spirit from being destroyed. I hope that you guys have a friendship you’ll cherish forever. You probably saved that man’s life!!
Having a beard is a time-honored tradition amongst gay people in the closet. As long as both members of the marriage know about it, it's often the best of a bad situation.
I’ve definitely heard of it before and I’m glad it wasn’t something I had to do to protect myself and my peace. I have my own trauma but I’m just happy to see that they were able to help each other and be happy with how everything ended up :)
It really shouldn’t be anymore though. The bigotry displayed by op’s and her ex’s family belongs firmly in the past, six feet under.
It does, but I don't blame people who worked within the circumstances they lived under.
I don’t either. As a gay guy though I just hate to see men who still feel the need to have a beard in 2024. Unless they’re financially dependent on their homophobic family, they should just cut them off and live their life.
They probably were. And now that they are independent they don't have to go along with it anymore. Unfortunately there are still pockets where there's a huge stigma about being queer. I'm lucky that I grew up in a super accepting household. But whatever they had to do to survive, I'm glad they got out.
Yeah. I also grew up with a very accepting family. These stories remind me how lucky I am.
True. And hopefully we get there. But reality has a way of sucking.
Well it seems the ex family is taken care of because they wouldn't listen to doctors.
YES!
NTA. You and your ex went into the marriage fully aware of the situation, and why you were getting married. You’ve both decided it’s time to move on and he’s going to live his life authentically for the first time. Your family (specifically your mother) is the problem. She has to butt out and let it go. Honestly, threatening you doesn’t seem like “good mother” material. Does she want to let her bigotry ruin her relationship with you?
*”Why are you so upset? You wanted me to marry someone from the same church, and I did.”* (Of course, this might tip mumsy into an apoplectic rage, but try saying it in your absolute sweetest voice.) NTA
I fucking love this.
You were trying to “save” him! What could be objectionable about that? Honestly, these people need to make up their minds.
NTA. Your parents were trying to control your life in a completely inappropriate and controlling way. Religious instruction may be part of good parenting but that ends at age 18 and they should not be trying to control who you marry. So they deserve what they got. Clearly the opinion of those in her community is all your mom can think of, and so programmed into her that she thinks informing everyone of your "betrayal" is somehow punishment to you. It's up to her whether she thinks the sympathy for her will outweigh the judgment of her. It matters not at all to you. Not sure what you mean by her putting "a lot of effort into helping us in our marriage" but if that included something like a major down payment on a house, I can see you veering into AH territory.
Absolutely NTA. Your life, your choices. Maybe if your families weren't part of a cult that would treat people in a shitty way for their life choices, you wouldn't have had to do any of this. My wife is from an incredibly cult-like Lutheran branch. I was her way out (That is not what our relationship is built upon, but it gave her a way out of the "church"). Other members had been disowned, ex-communicated and treated like lepers for leaving, coming out, or making life choices the church didn't agree on. Luckily, her immediate family has not been opposed to our relationship, outside of initially blaming me for her leaving the church. I'm terribly sorry you are having to go through this and having to deal with your family treating you this way.
Wait wait wait…was your wife from the WELS? I grew up in the WELS and it was like a cult for me. I left and am much happier now that I can breathe. People get offended when I say the WELS is a cult, but it’s the truth.
It is not WELS but incredibly close. It is Midwest based, with a large contingent in WI.
Ahhh. I know the ELS is also “in unity” with the WELS. And the LCMS is more middle of the road but still pretty conservative. I’m glad your wife got out. We don’t need any more oppressive cults in the USA.
Idk about that but I do know that "wels" is also the German word for "catfish", which sounds oddly appropriate
Ha ha! Those Lutherans are catfishing the Christians.
Totally shook by the thought of intolerant LUTHERANS. They're the nicest!
NTA. when they oppress people they lose any standing to complain.
There really is no hate like Christian love. NTA both you and your ex are lucky to have each other. That type of unconditional love and support is rare. Your parents sure taught you what true love doesn't look like.
INFO: >That just set her off because she had put a lot of effort into helping us in our marriage What did this entail? * I could see her being upset if she thought you were going into it planning for it to be a forever love based marriage. * If she invited a bunch of poor relatives to travel to wedding and endure hardship to attend & then has to tell them you planned from the start to divorce once his parents passed I could see that being upsetting to those who traveled. * I could see her being upset if she was the one who supported you when you called about fights/disagreements and you knew the whole time you later planned on divorcing. * I could see her being upset if she paid for your "only" wedding/honeymoon & you never intended to stay married. If you paid for 100% of the wedding and communicated to all those who made sacrifices to be there that the wedding was just for show & the marriage was a cover up that's one thing, but if you didn't and there is at least some amount of Asshole-ness associated with taking the money and running.
I could see her being upset if she was the one who supported you when you called about fights/disagreements and you knew the whole time you later planned on divorcing. This never happened, my ex husband and I never had one single argument or misunderstanding. We were the best roommates, and very close friends, and we did a lot of things together. I helped him have "experiences" with men while I could do whatever I wanted too. When we divorced he asked me "do you want to divorce?" and I was like "ok". Both our families paid for the wedding. We paid for our "honeymoon" (vacation).
I'm guessing your family would have paid for the wedding anyway if you were married to somebody else. Thankfully it was to someone you consider a friend than to an old codger who may or may not have treated you right. I can see why some commenters are upset about you playing up the "heartbroken wife" theatrics. But, if your ex was okay with it (since he probably bore the brunt of the backlash from relatives, etc.), I'd say you are NTA.
This. People are going on like she had a Go Fund Me account or was trying to milk the situation. She probably made one or two posts on FB or IG and made a weepy call to her mom to continue the charade, then let her guard down and someone tattled to her mom. If their parents weren't trying to get them married off, especially her mom to older guys, they wouldn't have had the sham marriage in the first place. Now they've distanced themselves from that community and moved away and started their own real lives, albeit separately. Good for them. Maybe she needs to go low contact with her mom. NTA.
Honestly, if they weren't shitty religious muppets then you two wouldn't have had to get married in the first place. Their church-induced assholiness created those costs and they paid for them of their own free will. Seems only fair to me.
Definitely seems like an asshole tax to me.
If she paid for a wedding she has ever-so-slightly more of a leg to stand on in being upset at you. That said, people get married every day for reasons unrelated to romantic love, and a partnership without sex or romantic love isn't less valid (morally, ethically, or legally) than one that is based on those things. NTA.
Also it’s worth saying that the parents would not have had to pay for a wedding if they just let their kids get on with their own lives
Not if the mother was the one insisting that OP get married in the first place and trying to marry her off to creepy older men.
Seriously, the op and the ex-husband made a smart move. If not, the op would end up with some gross old man having and stay livelong being a part of the church, and her ex-husband would have wife and children where there would only be resentment both the sides. And the mom would only think about what would the people in the community would think.
>If she paid for a wedding she has ever-so-slightly more of a leg to stand on in being upset at you. NOPE. Mom was the one insisting on a wedding and marriage. If she'd cared about OP's feelings in the matter there wouldn't have been a wedding to pay for.
Mother has zero leg to stand on since she intended to hand her off to a "creepy old man" just because he was of the same religion. Frankly, OP's marriage is more traditional than any marry for love marriage.
NTA your parents didn’t care who you married, they just wanted you married. They tried to set you up with people you’d never love. So instead you set yourself up with someone you do love!!
NTA. It doesn't seem like you wanted to stay connected in that family/community anyway. Your ex sounds like a better support than your mum would be, anyway
I'm sorry you both felt forced into being Machiavellian in order to live your lives. I'm glad he's found his happy and I hope you do to, if you haven't yet. NTA
Hi everyone. This got way more attention than I imagined, thanks yall. I just want to say something about my mom. Yes I think she is a good mom, at least compared to other people's moms in the community I had grown in. Of course she wasn't perfect but I'm glad she had never layed a hand on me. She was also married off to a much older man right after highschool, who is my dad, so for her it was normal and saw nothing wrong about it, but I didn't want that at all, part of that was having my dad as a reference because he is horrible but I'm not talking about it. I can see know that we should have taken our secret to the grave, but as you might say, the cat is now out of the bag and honestly, I don't care about anybody back home, my mom, dad, siblings, former friends, I don't care about them. Some of them have a bad image of me because I got divorced anyway. Thanks again for your support.
I grew up in the church and was told to pray the gay away when I was ten and started crushing on other girls, they also wanted me to marry a creepy older man and stay in the Mormon church. You helped him, and saved yourself from a lifetime of misery and what ifs. I think that there's nothing wrong with telling her it was a sham, got to see how reputation is more important than your happiness, and it show her that she has no control over your life or decisions. Despite your upbringing you ended up a good person. Thank you for being an ally to the community, and I hope whatever is next for you brings you the happiness you deserve.
NTA - ngl its kinda AHish to make people go through the whole ordeal of a wedding when its all a sham. But if thats what you two needed to do to get out of that situation, have at it.
I mean, the wedding to a gross old man would have also been a sham, so I feel like they are used to showing up for sham weddings. NTA. And maybe time to revisit what being a "good mother" means, because I don't think it was modeled for you.
Somewhat the a-hole. There's nothing wrong with being a beard. You were just helping out a friend in a bad situation. It is weird and a little insensitive that you played up the heartbroken divorcee.
Lol, NTA. Crazy any-church people deserve to get fucked, even if its just for entertainment.
NTA - your mom thought she had control over the situation and realized you're an autonomous person. It can be a hard pill to swallow, especially for the super churchy. Her feelings are hers and not her responsibility. If she wanted an honest relationship with her daughter she could have provided an environment in which that could flourish but chose not to.
Nta . If they hadn’t tried to force you into some weird arranged marriage this wouldn’t have even happened . You and him did the right thing for yourselves
ESH - I don't agree with anything your parents and church did, and I don't see an issue with you two getting married to escape that situation. However, you are absolutely the asshole for playing the poor, heartbroken ex wife when that wasn't the case. You manipulated people into thinking you were grieving all because you "like theatrics." I also think you should have talked to your ex husband before telling your mother the truth. How will this affect him and his life?
I don't think it will affect the ex husband. They moved far away, and his parents are dead. There is no mention of any other family who might come after him. I don't see members of that church going to all the trouble to drive for who knows how long just to go confront someone who already left the religion. I think he's free at this point.
NTA. You both did a good thing for each other and it's very possible you saved each other's lives. Your mother was so desperate for you to marry someone in the church that she was willing to give you away to a man twice your age. Why listen to her now? Her judgement obviously can't be trusted. I'm glad your friend can now be himself and I hope you find the same happiness.
NTA you both did what was best for yourselves and helped each other in a way that wouldn't have been possible if they were in the know. Besides, what business is it of hers in the long run?
NTA, you did what you had to at the time. Side note: are you LDS?
No, no Mormons around here. I hope that describing it as "Orthodox protestants" would be broad enough to not point out our exact church.
WHY DID YOU TELL HER faceplam
Honestly, I was stressed and was a way to say Fuck you to my mom. At the moment, I thought that saying that to her to make her drown in her anger would be better than trying to explain myself for something so insignificant.
If you think she’s a good mother, why the need to say fuck you and make her “drown in her anger”?
NTA. Fuck religious nutjobs
NTA. You did nothing wrong.
No judgement I'd say the main thing you did wrong here was tell your mom. I mean you had to know she would go nuclear, so I'm not sure why you told her unless you wanted her to cut herself and your family out of your life, because it sounds like that will be the most likely result. Or maybe you felt like sticking your thumb in her eye. Either way you had to know what the outcome would be, so as long as you're okay with what happens, shrug.
NTA I’m not a fan of you perpetuating your ex to be a stereotypical cheating gay man who used you as a cover up. But having grown up in a fundie cult, I also get the conditioning behind it. Best I can suggest is you get some intense therapy. You were taught to handle life the way your religion handles life, and if you spend your adulthood learning how to be a normal person who handles things properly you’re going to face years of actual heartbreak as you lose relationships and friendships for poor communication and management. Not many people want to be around someone who’s probably going to secretly shit on them behind their backs to appease their religious family for long.
I’m don’t think anyone has the right to you the a**hole. If your ex-husband was fine with it, that’s all that matters. NTA Obviously your family are the a**holes.
Your mom paid for the marriage SHE wanted. Too bad for her. NTA.
NTA. You had the right to do anything to keep yourself safe. He wasn’t safe around his parents and their church. You weren’t safe around your parents and their church. He would have been at the very least shamed, bullied and mistreated at the worst beaten, homeless or send to a conversion camp. Your would have been forced to marry an old man, being raped, abused and forced to bring children into this world. Dream marriage for a creep, “man of religion” who goes after underage school girls. Your parents have no right to complain when the options they gave you were a life of misery.
NTA
NTA. Your mom only cares because she hates what her ex-SIL is. If she really wanted you to marry someone you loved then she wouldn't have tried to marry you off to gross predatory men.
NTA Congratulations to your ex on his first Pride month! Congratulations to you for being an ally. You two could come up with a brilliant documentary, book or play.
Your family tried to marry you off to older men, just because they went to the same church. Her feelings don't matter at all. Let her stew in her bigotry, and ve grateful that you and your ex got out before they severely hurt you both. NTA.
NTA. I can see why you and your ex handled it that way. He was cutting off all ties to that old life and didn’t care what they thought because he already knew how they would react. And by you being the poor lied to wife, that meant you were able to keep the peace with your family since you were not planning on cutting them off. That changed when your mom found out and you just said whatever at that point because what’s done is done. No going back and may as well own it. I get it. Tho, your parents will likely never forgive you. Personally, at this point I would just end up going LC or NC with them and anyone from your church or family who can’t just let it go since none of it is anyone’s business but your ex and yourself.
You were a victim of your religion and you did what you had to do to get away. NTA.
So very much not the asshole. And a nice Pride story. The assholes in this situation are the homophobes who can't keep their prejudices to themselves. NTA
Lying is wrong...but bigotry and hatred and rejection is...wronger. People who grow up in those types of religious families often do what it takes to survive. Your mom won't accept that without her entire understanding of reality dismantling, so don't count on her coming around NTA
NTA… if she didn’t keep trying to force you to marry a dirty old man, you’d not have had to marry a gay one! Best of luck to you and your ex!
NTA. You both did what was needed to be done at the time.
NTA… you’re awesome.
> I played the poor heartbroken wife who just discovered her marriage was a lie part almost the AH for making your family think you were heartbroken, buuuut, they are homophobes, NTA.
NTA, since you both knew the score. I'm not going to judge you for self-preservation. They're still not getting it. This is why people like your ex kill themselves. This is why they marry people like you, who can tell their spouses don't really love them and are heartbreakingly twisting themselves into pretzels wondering what they're doing wrong. I hope you both succeed in creating a found family in light of the lousy hand you were dealt.
NTA What your mom is really mad about is that you escaped her clutches and the church. You got out of there, and you freed someone else while you were at it. You're a rock star.
NTA. I'm glad you guys were both able to help get each other out of there. Just please never go back or you'll be stuck there!
NTA. I actually enjoyed reading your story, and you sound like you are 100% OK with the choices that you made, and I see nothing wrong with it, because you are happy and he’s happy. I understand, having to deal with parents like yours, but you both are adults and made your choices freely and with full knowledge of what you were doing and why you were doing it. It’s nice to know that you’re still friends and supportive. I wish you both nothing but the best in your future.
NTA, lying to bigots is always morally acceptable
NTA. I can gather from the comments that you didn't weaponize or otherwise tried to profit from the marriage or divorce and at the risk of sounding all Internet Atheist, I'm sorry you live in a culture where this level of lying was necessary in order for both of you to remain generally happy and not pressured by your "community".
ESH. Your parents didn't do the right thing in pushing you to get married, but you shouldn't have told everyone who would listen (except for new friends) how your husband "lied to you". People around the world get married for all kinds of reasons - financial, green card, arranged marriage, love, etc. You should have owned your reasons and said if you were being pushed to marry, you both wanted to marry a friend.
YTA just for seemingly playing with others' emotions and acting all sad about it. you made your Fake Husband get all the fire when you could have been a friend
When you said to your mum that you had known all along, couldn’t you have said that you married him because you thought you could make him straight? That should have kept you in your mum’s good graces. NTA for not telling her from the beginning.
NTA. i think the playing the part of broken hearted wife was prob unnecessary, but it was with good intentions so i don't wont and cant knock it. Hope you find a new partner soon too!. You deserve happiness just as much as yer Ex!
NTA as long as you and your ex-husband were on the same page as far as what you put out there publicly.
NTA. You could do almost anything to escape a church and not be the AH. Of course the people from that church won’t see it that way but in my eyes you are free from guilt.
NTA, you both did what was right for yourselves!
NTA Great idea. If this is true, well done. But why make up lies when you split? There was no need to play act. You didn't need to say a thing.
NTA. Your family and their cult are abusive. I am so proud of both you and your ex for escaping your abusive relatives and the cult they tried to trap you both in. I hope that both you and your ex love amazing lives full of happiness and especially freedom. Especially freedom from misguided guilt that your abusive parents have been trying to push onto you. You and your ex husband maintain those boundaries and know when to hire lawyers to warn your mom and other relatives to back off and away from your boundaries.
NTA. Lavender marriages were commonplace once, and clearly still exist now. Your mom is toxic.
NTA. You both did to protect yourselves from your parents’ overbearing expectations and to extricate yourselves from your parents’ church. Doing this isn’t easy, so you had to do what you could. You were a prisoner of your parents’ (let’s be honest) cult, and it is the obligation of every prisoner to escape. And now you are doing what you are supposed to be doing - living your own life, not letting your parents live it for you.
NTA. Both of you all have disgusting, bigoted families and you two protected each other from them. If that ain’t real love, nothing is.
NTA You played the part you needed to separate yourself from what sounds like a very toxic environment. If this is the way your mother found out your marriage was a sham, that just goes to show how much she actually knows you.
NTA Your “marriage” helped keep you safe and helped you get out of a bad situation. The only people you truly lied to were the people putting you in that bad situation to begin with.
When someone is exiting a cult, I am pretty happy to give you a pass on how you got it done. Good luck to both you and your ex!
NTA. Good for you. Good for him.
NTA y'all made the best of your circumstances and helped each other escape religious oppression, slay queen!!!
YTA. There was zero reason to lie at the end.