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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I’m choosing to not help my family financially, because I selfishly want unnecessary things for myself.
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NTA: Their financial issues are not caused by circumstances outside of their control. It is not like, they are drowning in medical debt - they have overspent on needless luxuries.
If you help them, you will 100% be taken advantage of. I don't even think they will do it deliberately. They just lack the knowledge and habits to act any differently.
Giving them cash doesn't fix their financial mindset/discipline issues.
$80 k does not go as far as you would think either. If OP or his wife have a medical crisis or become unemployed and can’t work that money will not last for long.
My hubs changed jobs and needed a certification. He didn’t work for a year and I’m disabled. We have no debt besides our mortgage. We still spent $70k that year. Our cobra insurance was $26k of that.
You could hire a financial advisor and sit them down on a lesson on finances
That would be the help they need. Giving them money only enables more stupidity.
NTA
Giving them money would be like giving alcohol to an alcoholic.
Letting them know anything about your finances would be an act of stupidity.
They have no right to know, and they will keep pressuring you for money if they ever find out that you have an savings.
I did this for the members of my family. Set up budgets, goals, saving accounts.
This was just not as attractive or as easy as getting it from me.
As long as people give into it, they will continue.
Yeah, a sibling finally became fiscally responsible when our parents died--obviously, he could have all along, but why do that when you can just get money?
Exactly, they can absolutely do it if they choose. In my case I became like a credit facility, I recall saying that I would help out with some outstanding bill or loan because they needed (wanted) something else.
In a passing conversation before I handed over the money (thankfully), they let slip that they had just booked ( not paid for ) a very expensive holiday.
They lied about what they needed the money for.
When they asked about the money, I just played dumb, I said, oh, I thought because you booked that holiday you were ok for it?
Get this, they said, "we can't afford both", I said in that case they can either pay their bills or go on holiday...
It was enlightening.
A consequence of my withdrawing financial assistance was that they don't bother me now. I rarely hear from them.
I no longer have anything that they want.
What was sad was realising that what I perceived as a happy family and friendship, wasn't, it was all a lie, I had something they wanted. Money.
I don't think they would appreciate the financial adviser because it wouldn't cost them anything There are plenty of free resources that can give advice for budgeting living. If they don't see the problem they won't fix it
My father and brother didn't. Had a whole plan written down to live within their means and build savings. They were back in debt and with their hands out for more of my "get free out of jail" money within days. My hope was shattered.
Yep, sit down and shut up and keep watching. If he really wants to help, needs to get them to go and get a budget and financial advice from their banks. 80k is not much to go around and your retirement fund is just that, money for you retirement. Helping them with money is just going to get them deeper in debt and you out of pocket. No good for anyone.
THIS! I agree; $80k is a good amount as emergency fund, but not that much for the OP's relatives considering how they spend their money. Further, $250k in 401k is a good amount but not enough for the OP and his wife to live comfortably until they reach 90 on average.
OP is NTA. Don't throw away your hard earned money.
We don't know the child's age.
It is hard to save when you are younger and starting, and OP has done a great job at that. Saving early for college, or retirement is important due to the compounding interest, and depending on how that money may be invested / handled, the growth of the economy.
I am OLD. I remember with the NYSE broke through 10,000.
It doesn't even go that far now :(. My Alma Mater now costs $76,000 (!!!!) a year. I just looked, and the STATE school is $28,000 per year for residents, $55,000 for non residents. I don't know how anyone afford college NOW. 10-15 years it seems like it will only be the 1% that will be able to afford Higher Education. I just...don't have words.
He added that he has a 529 and the college costs are covered.
That’s not the point. The point is no adult is responsible for bailing out faaaaaamily members because they live beyond their means. And OP should feel no guilt for making it.
Does it say anywhere that OP lives in the US? Education might not be as ridiculously expensive wherever they are.
Though I agree, if it is the US, a college fund would definitely be worth investing in.
My thoughts exactly. They don’t explicitly ask so when OP feels guilty and gives them money now they are off the hook for not paying the loan back because “OP volunteered “ Also you don’t have enough money to be buying a Boxster. You have a good start but that money doesn’t go as far in the future as you might think. That’s an ego car. The initial cost is a small amount of the ownership cost. Go rent one a couple times and get it out of your system.
NTA OP
They do it to themselves. The BEST help you can offer is free, financial or budgeting advice. Help them review *their* finances, doesn't require going through yours. They either accept that help that's offered, or they don't, but that's not on you.
If you help them, show them the areas they could make adjustments on(savings, cutbacks, lifestyle changes) and then it's on them to actually follow through.
If they won't take advice, won't follow through on it. That's it! There isn't a hand-out being offered. The help is reasonable financial planning, a budget.
And just to add; you’re not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination- just building a lifestyle that’s sustainable into your old age. To steal other Redditors statements… don’t set yourself on fire to keep other people warm as they’ll burn through your cash and then be freezing cold wanting more again but you’ll be cinders.
Yup, that whole teach a man to fish vs. giving him the fish saying. I don't feel bad for people who put themselves in the position they are in. Buckling down and living inside your means is the way to go.
It's like me and the $4000 gaming computer I want with the 4090 Nvidia card and the i9, and fucking ram maxed out to the motherboard capacity because fuck it. I could pull the trigger on that motherfucker right now. I have several credit cards with high limits. But I have them zeroed out and they're staying that way. It's killing me to not just pull the trigger now and go hog wild. But no, I am saving up and waiting.
Especially the ones with a brand new bmw that are behind in their mortgage. Who prioritizes a car over a home?
If OP caught up the mortgage I bet they would get behind again, sounds like that bmw needs to go away.
>Giving them cash doesn't fix their financial mindset/discipline issues.
This is 100% correct. Ironically, people who are horrific with money are destructive when given money. e.g. give someone like this $5k and they'll use it on a down-payment for an $80k car they now need to make payments on.
Definitely not on the same proportion...
But I had some friends always asking for small enough money, pay me back later, ask for more money, pay me back...
I decided that 3rd time they do it, I lend with the conditions that I should audit their lifestyle and suggest corrections. Because at this point I'm an investor in their lives, and I'd like some say.
And by investor, I didn't want to shame them. I AM investing on them. Because I BELIEVE in them.
None of the repeated borrowers came back. They want more $ but they also want the freedom to keep on making their mistakes.
They stopped asking, I helped 2x so it's not that I'm stingy, and that's good for me.
Reality check - you are not really “wealthy”. I thought you were going to say you had a million dollars stashed! Don’t give them anything, they could also live the way you do and save. People have choices.
Yeah, I think being surrounded by financially inept people has skewed OP’s perception of wealth. He has solid savings, but he certainly doesn’t have enough to risk his family’s stability by lending (or, more likely, giving with no chance of repayment) money to financial vampires. They clearly have the ability to make smarter choices if they want to, just like OP is, but they’re never going to do so if he bails them out. NTA and please don’t give them a cent.
Not even in Europe these days.
The average salary in Spain - one of the cheaper countries in the EU - is about 35,000 USD per year (gross). It's not uncommon for people working for large corporations or IT companies in Central Europe to earn over 50-60k USD per year.
The main difference is the healthcare, which is free or much cheaper in Europe.
Yup a lot of people don’t realize this. My childhood best friend and wife had great incomes and a good amount of cash reserves (nearly 130k in cash). Unfortunately his wife got stage 4 ovarian cancer and stopped working for the 2 years she was in treatment and it completely wiped out their savings.
I cannot believe I missed the last two paragraphs about getting Porsche boxster. If OP buys the Porsche he won’t have any savings left and will be in the same exact position as his family. What a moron!!! The good news is he’s not hiding his wealth; he’s just delaying the inevitable shitty financial choices his family makes. Phew. What a relief.
And he absolutely does not have enough extra to throw on a sports car. Just because he’s surrounded by absolute dumpster fires of financial literacy does not make his current situation wealthy even if in comparison it’s so so good
OP I beg you to you put your numbers into a retirement calculator
I absolutely agree. I'm not putting down your savings but use a retirement calculator and you'll be shocked how much more you need to have by retirement age to live comfortably if you don't have any serious medical condition.
Don't reward them for their poor choices by bailing them out. It won't ever end.
Sorry, OP. What everyone on this particular thread says is true; you are NOT wealthy. You have been responsible and by their standard, probably extraordinary. Hopefully this honest assessment would change your mind about buying a car for yourself.
When you are older, you will realize that all you need is something reliable/safe to take you from point A to point B. You don't need a big house; you just need to live in an adequate house in a safe and clean neighborhood. Not having to worry about money when you are old is priceless.
Yeah this was a good comment to read and others. You all are right on the aspect that I’m surrounded by incompetency and feel like I have “wealth” when realistically it’s just savings.
To be very clear, you \*do not\* have the kind of savings necessary to buy a Boxter without putting yourself in the same precarious position as your other family members. Forget about the fancy sports car and continue to be responsible with your savings.
I'm going to echo what everyone else has said on this. Assuming your investments double every ten years and you retire at 65, your 401k (with no additional contributions) is only going to be $2 million. Maybe it'll be $3 million with contributions you'll continue to make. You might be able to have a comfortable retirement. But the moment you start bleeding cash for family, you're going to start limiting your options. I'm a couple years younger than you, but I would not view $250k in a 401k as "wealth". To me, that's just being on track for a comfortable retirement based on the rule of thumb to have 3x income at 40.
I know, me too. I thought OP was going to say they were sitting on millions of dollars, not 300k between savings and a retirement account. 300k isn’t going to go far between 9 people with luxury vehicles and fancy vacations.
I actually chuckled when it went from rich to I have $80k in the bank. Bless him. I guess he is technically better with money than the rest of them, but he doesn't understand that he's standing on a cliff edge right now. I don't want him to feel bad or dumb about all of us saying this, I just think he doesn't really understand because everybody else around him is so incredibly bad with money.
\^ THIS. Owes roughly 1/3 on a home and has minimal retirement savings. I wouldn't even call this financial snapshot all that comfortable at this stage, as a single major health issue could wipe out everything put away. A news sports car is a pretty frivolous and ill-advised purchase. The last thing the OP should be doing, tho, is wiping out the elective debt of others.
NTA.
I was expecting a couple million, lets face it a million doesn't go as far as it used to. Most retirees have just about that in 401K/IRA and find out it won't last as long as they thought unless they are very careful.
NTA. I hate to break it to you but you really are just one long layoff away from losing your savings. Do not give your family money. You need to continue to prioritize saving your money. Remember the years will go quickly and college for your kid is going to cost money.
You really actually don’t have that much money. They recommend 6 months expenses saved and that is barely enough. What if you both lose your jobs or 1 of you gets sick and has expensive medical bills. And never touch the 401k. It doesn’t exist.
My mind is blown. He’s chastising his family for buying luxury cars, Stanley cups, and fancy vacations. Meanwhile he’s about to blow his entire savings on ::checks notes:: a luxury sports car.
Yeah, good thing OP is not like the other girls. 🙄
On the other hand, OP is talking about saving for it, not financing it. There's a world of difference between blowing money you have on a luxury and blowing money you don't have on one. Is it a great idea in this circumstance? No. But it's way better than how the family would go about it.
Definitely not blowing the whole savings that would be extremely dumb (although the temptation is real to get something high end even put money down and finance something big) But I want to continue saving and using some of it on a sports car, that actually isn’t a Boxster, I just put that in there because I won’t shut up about the other one and feel like someone will guess and then know it’s me. It’s about $30k-$50k used and is fairly reliable too so I know what to expect with ownership cost wise.
I'm not going to be as critical here as everyone else has been, but I still don't think you're in "buy sports car in cash" territory with your finances my dude. You have a wife and a kid, and while you have a great job right now, I think you need to prioritize building your savings more before you consider spending thirty to fifty grand all at once. Should something terrible happen, you want to be able to continue to support your family throughout it because it's obvious that you won't be able to rely on your extended family for any assistance at all. The job market for high-income people can be a fickle mistress, and there's no guarantee that if you get laid off for whatever reason that you'd be able to secure a $175k salary again any time soon. You're in a good financial position right now, and you should not give any money to your family, but I also don't think you should be considering spending even half of your life savings on a sports car. Nonetheless, NTA.
Please have a meeting with a financial advisor to go over everything and bring you down to earth. You're doing better than many for your age, but I think you still might not be on track for a comfortable retirement. Let a professional look those numbers over and tell you what you can afford.
If you \*have\* to buy a sportscar, buy a Miata. New they are around $30-35k, one of the most reliable cars made, maintenance is cheap, and car insurance is very cheap - it's cheaper to insure than a Honda Civic.
>And never touch the 401k. It doesn’t exist.
This. I wouldn’t even consider it part of my “wealth”. The minute you consider it an asset is when you’re going to start thinking about spending it.
Honestly, I cashed out my 401k at 30 to finance my ex’s startup. He never paid me back and was an all around jerk, especially when I finally broke up with him. Sucks that I lost that money but better to learn that lesson upfront than at a later point in time.
NTA
The fact that all your relatives are in debt but continue to spend money like they aren’t should tell you that if you bail them out now, nothing will change.
And when they get in debt again, they’ll expect you to help again, and again. Their debt is nothing new, you’re just now hearing about it.
They won’t sell the boat and kayaks, they’ll still take lavish trips and buy new cars every few years.
The best thing you can do is tell your parents to sell the toys. Clue your sister in that the parents are just as broke as her so she needs to stop going to them. If your other sibs have nothing to sell, then say nothing. Have your wife speak to her parents, stay away from that.
Them having 2 campers is absolutely blowing my mind. Having 1 camper was enough of a pain in the ass for me, and the newer ones are generally shit that stay in the shop for repairs constantly. I can't imagine how much they're blowing just to maintain them.
NTA. You don't have wealth. You have a year's worth of expenses in savings in case something terrible happens. Don't waste it on other people and their poor financial decisions.
So true; honestly, what this guy has is pretty much the minimum to not be at risk of a financial downward spiral in the case of a bad life event. He absolutely should not put himself in the danger zone to bail other people out of their own irresponsibility, because let's be frank here, it's not ignorance of how money works that's created their situations; these people are \*choosing\* to live beyond their means.
Or follow their example and buy a fancy toy when he has a child that is every day getting closer to needing an unmentioned college fund. He needs to set his early midlife crisis mobile aside and dedicate some money towards his kids potential future needs.
Not what you've asked but you are not as rich as you think you are. Buying the Boxster is on itself a financial error you would be making given your financial position.
NTA, nevertheless.
No offence but you clearly ain’t wealthy nor good with money either! Your savings are peanuts! And if you think you can afford a car with a starting price of 70k with what you have you are delusional and just as bad with money as them!
NTA. You worked hard and had self-control to be able to put aside that money. You earned it. Giving it to them and helping them pay off their bad decisions will not help them in the long run because it won’t change their habits, but it will get you taken advantage of. If they had seriously medical problems they needed help paying for, that would be one thing, but no one needs that many water bottles to match outfits, or expensive toys they can’t afford.
It is not THAT much money for 34 year old. Keep saving and investing. I had close to your savings amount and my brother just showed up unannounced. He needed my help to settle in a foreign country. No English, no savings, no car, no nothing. But kept houses and farms back at home saying he was planning to sell them later…had to give him my car, and buy myself another used car, pay for his student visa and classes (expensive af), health insurance, car insurance, clothes, gas money, and he wanted to go to the gym so my grocery bill x10 since he is into weightlifting, rent free in my rental unit, then he didn’t feel “safe” without a safety net so I had to give him all my money earmarked for house renovation because he said he could do it for me. 6 months later nothing was done, house ripped aparts, smells with constant cooking of meats (I am vegetarian) and constant attitude of “you didn’t do shit for me.” Eventually I came to the open house, car is gone (he even found and took the car title in my documents binder), my son’s clothes, my dad’s dewalt tools, all cash for renovation. I will recover. But my point is no matter how much you do for the family, it is never going to be enough. My mother immediately stopped talking to me.
NTA. It’s been my experience that, once you start loaning money to family, it turns into an expectation whenever they get in a bind. And it is highly unlikely to be paid back. They made the debt, they can figure out how to get out of it.
>I have $82k in savings .... planning on continuing to save and buy a Boxster cash (obviously keep some left over)
Hate to break it to you but if your income is 100k then your emergency fund should be 50-75k. Congrats on reaching that but can't afford that fancy status symbol (boxster) yet. Keep saving 👍
NTA with a caveat. Your parents and in laws have the means to dig themselves out of debt, they just need to bite the bullet and unload some of their status symbol toys. The next time they mention the sad state of affairs have a list of remedial financial consultants suitable for their actual income bracket. It’s up to them to cut back their spending and start living within their means. Your siblings probably have unaffordable status symbols as well but if you think they would be open to you suggesting financial counseling, suggest it and if they get on board wholeheartedly you might consider helping them expedite paying down their debt. If neither is interested, you have no obligation to help anyone not willing to help themselves. This allows you to buy your expensive new toy without feeling guilt.
But I think it’s concerning that you and your wife keep your finances separate with no knowledge of each other’s assets. Why? Do you not trust her? Does she not trust you? Does this mean there’s no joint account as well? How are household expenses paid, or do you take the total of everything and divide by half?
Yea, are they on the same page about the future, especially with a kid? Extra curricular activities, college, summer camp, vacations, whatever?
And about retirement?
Hi there.
I have some family members who are the same.
I tried to help in every way.
Giving them money to clear arrears, helping with missed payments.
Years of it.
I had to stop and back away because the reckless spending continued.
You aren't responsible for them.
Don't feed into it, don't feel guilty for being sensible.
If you start with one then where do you draw the line?
I also really think that they confide in you because they know you have money.
If you give into the guilt then it will not end well.
They won't change, they'll get worse.
What I started doing when my family members complained, was mirror them.
I let them know that they had gotten everything from me that I could give.
I started to complain about the cost of living, I told them I had to get a new car on finance, I told them I was struggling....
They're still buying new cars, still taking nice holidays...
I tell them that I envy them.
Best of luck with it.
NTA. Other people’s poor handling of money is not your responsibility. It would be different it were medical debt or something. That being said, you’re not flat out “rich” from what you’ve described. Don’t get me wrong, you’re being financially responsible and taking care of your assets but if people get it in their heads that you’re “well off” it can be very difficult to dissuade them. You don’t need to have a lot for people to think that you’ve got it made. Be very careful about that.
NTA, and while you're doing well right now, you absolutely don't have a lot of wealth. While you definitely have a nice chunk in savings, a serious illness, major home repair, or layoff can take a huge chunk of it (well, illness in US, anyway).
If two of those things happened in the same year, how much would you have leftover? That's my rule of thumb for spending down significantly from my savings for a non-emergency. Granted, you are free to do what you want, and I would certainly by a car before gifting significant sums of money to profligate spenders, but it's worth having a strong rainy day fund. When life deals us lemons, it's usually enough for a whole pitcher of lemonade.
NTA wait on the car for a few more years or you will have played your hand for all to see. To have money you have to save it and to save it you have to hide it.
Think of it like alcoholism: You can’t fix their problems. Only they can, and only when they admit they have them.
Also: you’re not wealthy. Not even close. You have a good start, but a long row to hoe. If you start wasting your money on things that have no monetary value to you, what little resource you have will disappear, and no one will be better off.
They are making their bed. Let them lie in it. And if you can’t disassociate, get some counseling to learn to be objective.
NTA
You are not wealthy. You are frugal. I know compared to your family, you seem wealthy, but you are barely middleclass. Buy the car, but don't tell anyone you paid cash. Let them think what they want. If they assume you are in the same boat as them, then they won't harass you for money. Your finances are no one else's business. Continue doing what you are doing and stop feeling guilty about people who willfully put themselves in position to become homeless. If you want to help them long-term, tell them to contact a debt consolidation entity. They helped me twice when I was stupid. You lose credit cards, and your credit is tanked for a while, but they will help you get out of debt. They talk to everyone you owe money to and set up payment plans and get the interest to stop piling up. They will advise regarding selling redundant items, or items that can help to bring down the debt without becoming homeless. This is on them, not you. Good luck. That kind of guilt is hard to deal with, but it is NOT on you to solve their money problems.
Congratulations on breaking the cycle, but what you have is actually a normal amount of savings, I don’t think anyone would consider you wealthy. Have you started a college fund for your child? Would put your money towards that and see a financial advisor about investing. Buying a flashy high maintenance car that depreciates in value sounds like something your family would do. And definitely let them figure their own financial situations out, if you paid for anything for them, would let it be some financial counseling.
NTA. It's not like you can finance their lifestyles, and it doesn't look likely that you'd never get paid back. If their habits adjust and they show some measure of dependability, then maaaaaaybe it'd worth loaning some cash, but right now, it sounds like they'd just blow through your money and learn nothing. You're a lot more likely to get pulled down than you would to push them up.
NTA. You can't help people who don't want to help themselves. Also you aren't really in a position to help anyone imo. $82k savings in US is good don't get me wrong but how far can that money help any of your family members. Personally yourself is just one emergency away from being in debt and wiping out your savings.
The "keeping it from your wife" is a bit of a red flag, but the rest, common sense.
Do not give your hard-earned wealth to your profligate relatives...
NTA.
OP, you are not wealthy, sorry. You have maybe 1-2 years' living expenses available to you. A single major illness nor covered by insurance could wipe that out.
Count yourself wealthy when your savings and assets can fund 100 years of your family's normal living expenses at your current standard of living.
Your message to your family should be that you don't have money to spare, but since you're breaking even every now and then you can offer them some financial advice to deal with the issues. That financial advice really boils down to common sense things, such as selling the expensive toys, limiting expenditures, and making - and sticking - with a budget.
If your family refuses to do that, or says that they don't need your advice, that’s an excellent excuse for you to appear offended. And say "I guess we shouldn't talk about money then."
If they aren’t willing to follow your advice on financial matters, then you should make it clear you have nothing more to give them.
Yeah, when he said rich I was thinking like trust fund multiple properties rich. OP’s more stable than the average person, but like you said it’s just one accident or moment of bad luck away from ruin.
The only thing that's weird here is that your wife doesn't know how much you have. Suggests you don't trust her with money either. Don't know how that's supposed to work long term with a child, what about college funds?
NTA for everything else.
NTA, you should tell them you can help but only after they sell some of the extra stuff and start budgeting. Do they look at their monthly expenses? Do they have an accountant? This requires a lifestyle change and one you alone might not be able to change.
Keeping your wealth private is your choice, and you're not obligated to bail out family members who haven't been responsible with their finances. It's okay to prioritize your own financial goals and stability. Maybe a heart-to-heart about money management could help them without putting you in a tough spot.
Come on man. You know better. The moment you disclose your finances and momentarily bail out the irresponsible lifestyle, the floodgates of requests, pressure and guilt tripping will open and acrimony and resentment will ensue with you, your relatives and your spouse. Whether you keep funding, stop funding or try to thread the needle and fund on a case by case basis.
There may be a smaller amount of this when you are seen sporting the fancy car.
If you start. It’s never going to end. There’s always going to be an emergency. Your probably going to have to save them every year. And your going to need to help because you know “family”. They will manipulate, guilt and lie to her your money.
No matter what. Do not mention your money. Tell them you’re barely making it. Also you think you have money. Tell them you do and you’ll find out how fast it disappears from your account.
People like them are a bottomless pit of debt. I know because my mother supported her family so much that she has to live with me. She can’t even afford to get her own apartment. what’s funny is none of those people she helped will willingly care for her in her old age.
NTA for hiding it from your blood family, but keeping it from your wife makes zero sense to me. How are you both supposed to plan for your future? For retirement? For your child? Does she just trust you to take care of everything? I think you need to be open about it with your immediate family so you both can make fact-based financial decisions.
If you want to help, I think a reasonable thing would be to fix their heater or pay for an after school activity for the kids. I wouldn’t give them money.
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Throwaway account because I don’t know who lurks my main. I am 34 oldest of 5 and am married with 1 kid. My wife and I keep our finances separate. She knows I have money but I don’t think she realizes how much I have put away over the years.
My siblings, in-laws, and parents are awful with money. They buy a new vehicle every couple of years they can barely afford, spend money on unnecessary stuff and vacations. Recently my sister told me her car is 3 months behind and and she keeps borrowing money from my parents to pay it. My parents told me they maxed out their credit card and aren’t sure how to go about it. They didn’t mention the amount, my in laws said money is tight and are 4 months behind on their mortgage. My brother says he defaulted on a $4k loan that sounded like a predatory loan.
It makes me sick to think about especially when they confide in me these things, and I feel like I should help them because I can but I worry about being taken advantage of.
I also feel like they put themselves in these situations, my parents have plenty of “toys” (boats, kayaks, 2x campers, etc) they could sell, my in laws both drive very expensive SUVs including a new BMW X5. My sister put a whole trip overseas on a credit card. I watch them spend money in shops. One has 4-6 Stanley water bottles because they want colors to match their outfit.
Meanwhile I have everything paid off besides the house. I have $82k in savings $250k in 401k. My income is very good and I think my family suspects that because they know what I do for work.. I was planning on continuing to save and buy a Boxster cash (obviously keep some left over)
But my guilt factor is telling me I should help family before getting fancy car I’ve been wanting. I would hate for my in-laws to lose the house and have my nieces and nephews on the street or worse while I drive a new car around, I also (as bad as it sounds) don’t want anyone moving in with me.
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NTA. Don't give them a cent, they'll just piss it away and expect more in the future. Your money is your business. Keep adding to your savings and 401k.
NTA.
Ask yourself this. If one of them came to you and asked you to give them, let's say, 30k to buy a boxer, would you give it? No, I daresay you wouldn't. You'd call them ridiculous and tell them to pay it themselves, or get something they can afford. So why would you pay for their toys and lifestyle *after* the purchase has been made?
NTA. If you feel the need to help. That’s fine!! But that’s not something you should feel obliged to do. They are sadly probably only telling you because they suspect your finances are in good standing and expect you to bail them out. Personally I would just act broke 😂😂😂 but that’s just me. Because YOU worked for what you have. No one else.
NTA bro. Don't let those people inside your finances, and be sure to lock down your wife too.
Gotta be a unified front.
They will take you and her for everything they can and more.
Nope.. you know what will happen..you help one even if you say tell no one they will and faster that you can say oh shit everyone will have their hand out.. and after you have given everything you have. The names and guilt will start for not giving more.. if you are feeling guilty about having money.. I will take it...give to something that will use it for good. Like make a wish or wounded warrior. That would be a better use for your hard earned money.. keep that in mind you earned it not them they are entitled to shit.
Nope. Don’t do it. They consistently make choices to bring upon terrible situations. You have made choices to set up yourself and your immediate family. I know it can suck to watch them suffer, but it doesn’t mean you need to suffer along with them.
NTA. If they weren't making stupid choices, you'd still be NTA but you could assist them if you saw fit in a way that doesn't penalise you but helps them get back into gear.
But your family are making poor choices with no plan to do anything about it, and you covering their debts would just enable them to make further bad choices and assume that you'll save them when the time comes. And that time will inevitably come again.
My family suspects that I have money. And I do, because I worked very hard and did a lot over the years to get to where I am so that I can provide a comfortable life for my kids. They didn't do the same for me when I was a child, so they aren't entitled to any of it now. That's for *my* kids. They make their choices as adults. They live with those choices.
They suspect, but they don't know for certain. But there's always the snide little remarks. The expectation that I'll cover the meal bill because "You can afford it, right?". I should fly my entire family to the other side of the country to visit them because I have more money than them. Again, they don't know.
Money tells you who people are. If you don't want to know who they really are, don't let them know you have money. It's that simple.
NTA. You start down the road of financial assistance for others piss poor planning and it’s a slippery slope where they will continue as they are because they know you’ll bail them out
NTA if a sibling had fallen on hard times and you had a contract in place I'd say help them. But in this instance, everyone is just throwing it away and hoping for a saviour to swoop in. Don't be that guy, you won't see a penny and instead they'll all blame you for not helping sooner and will badger you for years looking for more and more...
You are on the verge of opening Pandora’s Box if you choose to now help all your family members financially. Be very, very, careful with the decision you make.
Do you know what would make you the AH? Paying their debts. It would let them avoid the reckoning they need to fix their self destructive practices. They will never pull themselves up if they do not change their behaviors. At most, offer to pay for them to take a reputable financial boot camp, like Ramsay or other tough program. Then they will have the tools to steer their ship back away from the waterfall
ETA: do not tell anyone of your financial position. For one thing, you are not all that wealthy. You're doing okay, but not enough to bail others out. More importantly, they would never let you have peace if they knew. This probably applies to your wife, too, unfortunately, unless she has been as disciplined as you
First of all, NTA. But, wow man, that’s a lot of money to save up over the years. You should just be proud of yourself, you earned the money, don’t let others shitty decisions affect you.
Nta. If someone was responsible and trustworthy you could help with a small gift or loan on the rare occasion. But don’t throw money away on people that spend their money stupidly.
NTA, it'd be one thing if your family was really struggling. They are NOT struggling. They are refusing to live within their means. If you help them you will always be helping them.
Whatever you do don’t say shit because the second you do you become the brand new line of cash or credit for these people. I promise you that there are other ways to help them even though they don’t seem to care about helping themselves
The only reason you are thinking like this is because at some point you have been conditioned to share everything. Its time to think only of you, your wife and your child. The others will only free load off of you due to their own ineptitude and spendthrift ways.
Nta. Money doesn't full bottomless holes very well. Pay off this problem and they will rack up more. If they wanted some help to change, eg pain financial counselling, that might be different and you could help them that that. Sounds unlikely though.
NTA and congratulations on having a conscience, it sucks sometimes. I think your on the right track as you actively realize they're not great with money, not that they're struggling financially. They made their bed and they should sleep in it, not move in and sleep in yours. Find ways to help them short term, potentially monetarily, and think of how to continue helping them with a hand off approach that doesn't involve your funds. Don't discuss your finances in detail and speak in general terms or they might continue to expect the short term help or be offended and not want to take your advice.
Give them money, if you can accept to never get it back. And remember, once you start giving them money, your wallet becomes their wallet and you will never make enough to satisfy all their wishes (deliberately saying „wishes“, not „needs“). NTA.
Nta
You have some savings, but you're not really wealthy enough to be giving money out to people.
If you want support them, see if they are open to financial advice maybe from a neutral professional.
Every time you feel bad, remember that it’s not that you would be paying their debts but that you would be buying their cars/boats/holidays etc for them. You’re not wealthy enough to be doing that.
NTA - perhaps instead concentrate in helping by "teaching them how to fish". Just say that you are debt free and are happy to pass on some tips to help them get their heads above water. Your savings (don't think of it as wealth, it is literally money that hasn't been spent) is not your family's "get out of jail free" account.
NTA and don't tell anyone anything! When I get a great job that paid double what I had before I made the mistake of telling the family. Suddenly everyone had their hand out, or expected me to pay when we went out. It was ridiculous! In your case even if you paid of the current debt your family sounds like it would only put themselves back in the same situation, and probably more quickly knowing you were there to bail them out. Keep your savings, offer advice, but don't advertise what you have if you want to keep ahead. Its not your responsibility to bail out everyone else.
Keep your money. It will only be wasted if you
offer it. They have managed up to now, so let
them deal with their mess.
In an emergency, you could pay off a debt directly,
not give them the money to pay it, after seeing proof
that the debt is real.
NTA Avoid getting involved, it's not your problem.
NTA.
You feel bad for driving a fancy car because you think you should help people who choose to drive fancy cars over keeping their home?
OP, you need to snap out of this guilt trip. Those people are adults who are responsible for their own desicions. You are not their father who helps them out because you raised them poorly. Don't take that role in this family.
NTA. But speaking as a man who got hit by a long-term layoff following his long-time employer's surprise bankruptcy, while at the same time going through a divorce, you don't have anywhere near as much money as you imagine.
Don't feel guilty not helping your family members financially while they still have plenty of ways to unass their lifestyles.
Unless you want to become broke after becoming EVERYONE'S ATM, DON'T TELL ANY OF THEM. It's none of their business.
NTA.
Your wife might be pissed though if she finds out. But if she'd push you to give your hard earned money to people pissing their money away...
Don't do it Op! You didn't mention how you and your wife handle bills. Regardless, the only two people you should be concerned with are your wife and child.
You will never get them off of you if you even hint at having any money. My dad made the same mistake as a young man. He signed for a loan for one of his brother's and they defaulted. It ruined his credit and it took him years to recover. He still hasn't learned his lesson. He works a blue collar job and easily makes over 200k yet you'd never know it as he's constantly financing other people's debt. It will never end.
Nta but avoid making purchases that'll draw attention to yourself. You may want to put your dream car on hold.
NTA. Giving them or lending them ( but let’s face it, you’ll never get the money back) money will not help them. You’ll only be enabling them to spend more money they don’t have. As painful as it sounds, you need to let them figure out how to solve their own problems. What you can do is maybe, if they are willing to help themselves and change their behavior, sit down with them and figure out how they can pay off their loan. As you said, a lot of them have assets they can sell to pay down their loan. Along with downgrading their lifestyles and maybe find additional income, they will probably be able to slowly pay off their loans
NTA
You CAN help them by sending them to a financial advisor. What you CAN'T do is save them.
Next time they mention bills or debt, recommend one. LIE and tell them you've been to one, too.
Don't. It will never stop. If you give money to one person, everyone will want some.
Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm. They are adults and they made stupid choices.
NTA
NTA , but would be not very smart if you rewarded their bad behavior. That puts your kid at risk.
I get that the Boxster is your dream car but based on those numbers, I don’t get a sense you are in Boxster territory - I.e., you can afford one when you can afford two.
NTA - Keep your money. You have a nice safety net. You do not have enough to dig all these adults out of their bad financial choices.
If you break weak and say something like....if you do x, y, and z, I will help you. All they will hear is you have money that could be theirs. Cue the drama, gaslighting, and guilting. Also, if you give in once it will be expected again.
In this situation, I think it is a good thing only you know what you have.
NTA but might want to forgo the fancy car if it’s going to cause drama. I’d feel differently if they didn’t have so many “toys.” Personally I’d rather drive an old Corolla than end up having to fund their bad financial decisions.
To add to chorus, you won’t be helping them — just delaying the inevitable collapse. You’d be, proverbially, throwing good money after bad. I would hold off on your car purchase though until this situation with itself out or you’ll never hear the end of it.
First off; its great that you have broken the cycle and exert self control and dicipline with your money. - But second off; You are not wealthy. You are not even financially secure to be honest. You are doing good. But, you are one: but mah familyyyy move away from being in a less good situation.
82k+250k is not alot of money in the grand scheme of things. It wont pay for a bad health scenario and/or a new roof, without leaving you hand to mouth again! Right now you have a good buffer but if you lost your job or something horrible happened with your house its not a: Oh I wont feel this - amount.
You might benefit from seeing a financial advisor so your savings, could work for you rather than just sit in an account. If you have debt - in your house - consider paying it off rather than buying a Boxster whatever that is.
Sometimes being surrounded by people who have made bad financial decissions - and tell you all about the consequences, can skewer your perception and understanding of what wealth is.
You dont fall into the wealth category in my eyes. Your 401k isnt big enough to retire on, your savings isnt enough to cover a bad health situation or a new roof - and you have debt in your house.
NTA btw - but please dont make the mistake of thinking that your family will ever stop expecting payouts from you once you start.
NTA
Next time they complain you could suggest as kindly as possible that they swap their cars for something more modest.
But as your parents have discovered helping them with money will never end.
So sad. And a terrible example to their children.
>I also feel like they put themselves in these situations, my parents have plenty of “toys” (boats, kayaks, 2x campers, etc) they could sell, my in laws both drive very expensive SUVs including a new BMW X5. My sister put a whole trip overseas on a credit card. I watch them spend money in shops. One has 4-6 Stanley water bottles because they want colors to match their outfit.
If you were to lend them money, they'd not unlearn these bad financial behaviours - they'd just burn through your savings like they burn through their paychecks.
You don't have " wealth " in the exact meaning of the word, you have some solid savings which you need for your own family of 3, first and foremost, not to fund another colour of a Stanley cup.
NTA
NTA.
I would not say you have “wealth” you have savings that can disappear in an instant. You yourself talk about buying an unnecessary expense.
Pay off that mortgage before throwing your money away
$82k is not a lot. So youre not rich really. Everyone else with their brand new cars, and "toys", which by itself is worth more than you have in savings, then maxxing out credit cards for holidays and buying expensive shit is their problems, not yours.
Next time they ask for money, or hint just tell them to sell something. You can't afford to live their lifestyle, neither can they. But its their doing.
Financially you're fine but not set for life. It feels like you're set for life because the people around you are bad with money.
But if or when you start "helping" them with money you will also be one of the people in your family that's bad with money.
The only difference is is that they will have a car/house/boat to show for it and you will have an ungrateful person telling you that they again messed up/ and what do you need your money for.
NtA.
NTA. You could help them by offering to help them budget, or create an Ebay Account to sell things to get out of debt. A few episodes of Dave Ramsey. And be honest with them about your fears.
"Hey Mom, it's worrying me that you've maxed out your credit cards. Do you have a budget your'e working to help pay them off? Would you like me to help identify where you can save some money and get that debt paid off? Maybe I could come over and we could have a clear out of things and list stuff on Bay to raise some cash
Hi Mom-in-law, I'm sorry to hear things are tight - would you like me to come over and help clear out some stuff that you can sell to raise money to clear off that debt. Or can I help with phone calls to lenders to let them know what you can pay?
"But my guilt factor is telling me I should help family before getting fancy car I’ve been wanting. "
They have gotten their fancy new cars when they havent worked for it.
NTA
you are not rich, you are not anything close to wealthy, you are barely comfortable.
To put it into perspective, in todays economy id say 1M is middle class/more likely to be upper middle class and that is STILL not wealthy or rich
YtA to Yourself if you help them
82k nah thats not a lot of money if someone gets sick or gets laid off or wants to make a career change. You still have a mortgage so whilst you pretty solid and can take a hit, bankrolling everyone is way beyond what you have.
They are telling you so you pay off their debts and they don't have to make hard decision's or change their lives, if you dig a bit they probably would be doing ok financially as well if they were a bit sensible.
They don't want to change they want you to
Do the hard work for them.
Do not do it……they will never appreciate it, it will be never enough, it does not get paid back and it never stops
NTA. But you could do simple things as a Big Brother of the family who is doing well, such as, pay for dinners when you guys get together, bring over a bottle of whiskey when heading to parent’s house. Keep the family together despite their flaws, IMO family is special, blood. give advice and suggestions to your younger siblings, not a free hand out.
As for your parents, you should talk to them.
They would spend that $80k in seconds. They are grown adults who've made their own decisions. DO NOT your future at risk for their mistakes. Also, DO NOT feel guilty.
NTA. Giving them money without them wanting to change their poor financial habits is like lighting it on fire. What’s more, they will repeatedly try to guilt you for more. You cannot fix these issues for them and throwing money at this problem is like putting a bandaid on a broken leg. Been there, done that
NTA. I’m a very generous person. I’ve even inherited teens… unfortunately my generosity has me basically drowning and I still put those I care about first.
The truth is, if I was a millionaire the greatest high would be helping people.
NTA for not spending your money on extended family
It's your money, not theirs.
But i mean... You can't on the one hand say they're bad with money because they keep spending it on "toys" while simultaneously saying you're also going to be spending most of your savings on a toy.
You've got a 401k set up, you've got a somewhat decent amount of savings, but not "i can buy, maintain and insure Boxster, and if someone hits me it's all ok" savings.
Hell, just your employer deciding they don't like you would force you to dip into things and sell off your toy.
What is the savings for your childs future like?
Kind off an AH for not thinking that far
It sounds very clear that at least some members of your family are irresponsible with money. They buy all kinds of expensive luxury items they don't need, and max out credit cards doing so. They don't save and they don't budget.
There are people who barely get buy because they have low-paying jobs or high legitimate expenses, such as medical expenses. I'd be inclined to hope you'd help family members in that position, although you'd be under no obligation to do so.
Your family OTOH isn't getting by because they overspend like crazy.
Under no circumstances should you be facilitating this. If someone has a specific request or need in an emergency, that's one thing. But don't even think about subsidizing financial irresponsibility.
Buy your car. You worked for it, you saved,, and you can afford it. Enjoy it! If your family wants help, offer to sit down with them and show them how to use simple apps that will help them to budget and save. (Betting they don't want that kind of help.)
NTA
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NTA: Their financial issues are not caused by circumstances outside of their control. It is not like, they are drowning in medical debt - they have overspent on needless luxuries. If you help them, you will 100% be taken advantage of. I don't even think they will do it deliberately. They just lack the knowledge and habits to act any differently. Giving them cash doesn't fix their financial mindset/discipline issues.
Yeh and they will plough through that 80k within months by the sound of it
My bet is weeks
Days, and if they put it towards their debts, IF, their debts will swallow it up and won’t even burp.
I don’t know why I appreciate the wording of this so much 😅
My bet is that it's already spent.
They'll start with a lavish vacation to "relieve all the stress they've had over money woes from the last couple years."
They’d buy a boxster
$80 k does not go as far as you would think either. If OP or his wife have a medical crisis or become unemployed and can’t work that money will not last for long. My hubs changed jobs and needed a certification. He didn’t work for a year and I’m disabled. We have no debt besides our mortgage. We still spent $70k that year. Our cobra insurance was $26k of that.
Yeh it’s currently a great safety net. It’s nowhere near fuck you money
That is only 2 SUVs, right?
Not even.
You could hire a financial advisor and sit them down on a lesson on finances That would be the help they need. Giving them money only enables more stupidity. NTA Giving them money would be like giving alcohol to an alcoholic.
Letting them know anything about your finances would be an act of stupidity. They have no right to know, and they will keep pressuring you for money if they ever find out that you have an savings.
I did this for the members of my family. Set up budgets, goals, saving accounts. This was just not as attractive or as easy as getting it from me. As long as people give into it, they will continue.
Yeah, a sibling finally became fiscally responsible when our parents died--obviously, he could have all along, but why do that when you can just get money?
Exactly, they can absolutely do it if they choose. In my case I became like a credit facility, I recall saying that I would help out with some outstanding bill or loan because they needed (wanted) something else. In a passing conversation before I handed over the money (thankfully), they let slip that they had just booked ( not paid for ) a very expensive holiday. They lied about what they needed the money for. When they asked about the money, I just played dumb, I said, oh, I thought because you booked that holiday you were ok for it? Get this, they said, "we can't afford both", I said in that case they can either pay their bills or go on holiday... It was enlightening. A consequence of my withdrawing financial assistance was that they don't bother me now. I rarely hear from them. I no longer have anything that they want. What was sad was realising that what I perceived as a happy family and friendship, wasn't, it was all a lie, I had something they wanted. Money.
If I were you I'd lock down my credit - taking loans out and getting credit cards in relatives names is a common next step for profligates.
And they won't feel guilty, because OP can obviously afford it and "we're faaaaamily".
I don't think they would appreciate the financial adviser because it wouldn't cost them anything There are plenty of free resources that can give advice for budgeting living. If they don't see the problem they won't fix it
My father and brother didn't. Had a whole plan written down to live within their means and build savings. They were back in debt and with their hands out for more of my "get free out of jail" money within days. My hope was shattered.
There is a saying about leading a horse to water but not being able to make them drink that applies here.
Yeah, this definitely feels like "teach a man to fish," sort of situation here
Great idea. Not sure how it would be received.
Yep, sit down and shut up and keep watching. If he really wants to help, needs to get them to go and get a budget and financial advice from their banks. 80k is not much to go around and your retirement fund is just that, money for you retirement. Helping them with money is just going to get them deeper in debt and you out of pocket. No good for anyone.
80k is nothing to this family.
THIS! I agree; $80k is a good amount as emergency fund, but not that much for the OP's relatives considering how they spend their money. Further, $250k in 401k is a good amount but not enough for the OP and his wife to live comfortably until they reach 90 on average. OP is NTA. Don't throw away your hard earned money.
No, no, no, no, no. Stop yourself right now. Once you “help” someone, it will set a precedent and everything will crash from there.
One thing OP doesn't mention is an education fund for his child. I think he should start saving for that, too.
This was my thought too. 100k would not go very far in 10 to 15 years with college costs already jumping over tall building in a single bound.
We don't know the child's age. It is hard to save when you are younger and starting, and OP has done a great job at that. Saving early for college, or retirement is important due to the compounding interest, and depending on how that money may be invested / handled, the growth of the economy. I am OLD. I remember with the NYSE broke through 10,000.
It doesn't even go that far now :(. My Alma Mater now costs $76,000 (!!!!) a year. I just looked, and the STATE school is $28,000 per year for residents, $55,000 for non residents. I don't know how anyone afford college NOW. 10-15 years it seems like it will only be the 1% that will be able to afford Higher Education. I just...don't have words.
He added that he has a 529 and the college costs are covered. That’s not the point. The point is no adult is responsible for bailing out faaaaaamily members because they live beyond their means. And OP should feel no guilt for making it.
Does it say anywhere that OP lives in the US? Education might not be as ridiculously expensive wherever they are. Though I agree, if it is the US, a college fund would definitely be worth investing in.
NTA. Give them cash today and they be back ro same state next month. You cannot make them change how they think.
>They just lack the knowledge and habits to act any differently. I agree, but I also suspect they confide in OP hoping for an offer of help!
My thoughts exactly. They don’t explicitly ask so when OP feels guilty and gives them money now they are off the hook for not paying the loan back because “OP volunteered “ Also you don’t have enough money to be buying a Boxster. You have a good start but that money doesn’t go as far in the future as you might think. That’s an ego car. The initial cost is a small amount of the ownership cost. Go rent one a couple times and get it out of your system.
Oh, they know. They’ve just prioritized wrong. They want stuff now instead of taking care of their shit. It’s not ignorance, it’s arrogance.
NTA OP They do it to themselves. The BEST help you can offer is free, financial or budgeting advice. Help them review *their* finances, doesn't require going through yours. They either accept that help that's offered, or they don't, but that's not on you. If you help them, show them the areas they could make adjustments on(savings, cutbacks, lifestyle changes) and then it's on them to actually follow through. If they won't take advice, won't follow through on it. That's it! There isn't a hand-out being offered. The help is reasonable financial planning, a budget.
And just to add; you’re not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination- just building a lifestyle that’s sustainable into your old age. To steal other Redditors statements… don’t set yourself on fire to keep other people warm as they’ll burn through your cash and then be freezing cold wanting more again but you’ll be cinders.
Agreed- OP giving them money would just enable what seems like their shopping addictions.
Yup, that whole teach a man to fish vs. giving him the fish saying. I don't feel bad for people who put themselves in the position they are in. Buckling down and living inside your means is the way to go. It's like me and the $4000 gaming computer I want with the 4090 Nvidia card and the i9, and fucking ram maxed out to the motherboard capacity because fuck it. I could pull the trigger on that motherfucker right now. I have several credit cards with high limits. But I have them zeroed out and they're staying that way. It's killing me to not just pull the trigger now and go hog wild. But no, I am saving up and waiting.
Yeah, he’ll just become a new revenue stream for them.
Especially the ones with a brand new bmw that are behind in their mortgage. Who prioritizes a car over a home? If OP caught up the mortgage I bet they would get behind again, sounds like that bmw needs to go away.
>Giving them cash doesn't fix their financial mindset/discipline issues. This is 100% correct. Ironically, people who are horrific with money are destructive when given money. e.g. give someone like this $5k and they'll use it on a down-payment for an $80k car they now need to make payments on.
Definitely not on the same proportion... But I had some friends always asking for small enough money, pay me back later, ask for more money, pay me back... I decided that 3rd time they do it, I lend with the conditions that I should audit their lifestyle and suggest corrections. Because at this point I'm an investor in their lives, and I'd like some say. And by investor, I didn't want to shame them. I AM investing on them. Because I BELIEVE in them. None of the repeated borrowers came back. They want more $ but they also want the freedom to keep on making their mistakes. They stopped asking, I helped 2x so it's not that I'm stingy, and that's good for me.
Reality check - you are not really “wealthy”. I thought you were going to say you had a million dollars stashed! Don’t give them anything, they could also live the way you do and save. People have choices.
Yeah, I think being surrounded by financially inept people has skewed OP’s perception of wealth. He has solid savings, but he certainly doesn’t have enough to risk his family’s stability by lending (or, more likely, giving with no chance of repayment) money to financial vampires. They clearly have the ability to make smarter choices if they want to, just like OP is, but they’re never going to do so if he bails them out. NTA and please don’t give them a cent.
That’s hardly “solid” if you live in the US. In Europe maybe… but in US that could be gone with a sudden illness or accident.
Not even in Europe these days. The average salary in Spain - one of the cheaper countries in the EU - is about 35,000 USD per year (gross). It's not uncommon for people working for large corporations or IT companies in Central Europe to earn over 50-60k USD per year. The main difference is the healthcare, which is free or much cheaper in Europe.
That is why I said maybe. I am Italian living in France.
Yup a lot of people don’t realize this. My childhood best friend and wife had great incomes and a good amount of cash reserves (nearly 130k in cash). Unfortunately his wife got stage 4 ovarian cancer and stopped working for the 2 years she was in treatment and it completely wiped out their savings.
Or enough to spend on a luxury sports car...
You are one cash boxter purchase away from joining them.
I cannot believe I missed the last two paragraphs about getting Porsche boxster. If OP buys the Porsche he won’t have any savings left and will be in the same exact position as his family. What a moron!!! The good news is he’s not hiding his wealth; he’s just delaying the inevitable shitty financial choices his family makes. Phew. What a relief.
And he absolutely does not have enough extra to throw on a sports car. Just because he’s surrounded by absolute dumpster fires of financial literacy does not make his current situation wealthy even if in comparison it’s so so good OP I beg you to you put your numbers into a retirement calculator
I absolutely agree. I'm not putting down your savings but use a retirement calculator and you'll be shocked how much more you need to have by retirement age to live comfortably if you don't have any serious medical condition. Don't reward them for their poor choices by bailing them out. It won't ever end.
Sorry, OP. What everyone on this particular thread says is true; you are NOT wealthy. You have been responsible and by their standard, probably extraordinary. Hopefully this honest assessment would change your mind about buying a car for yourself. When you are older, you will realize that all you need is something reliable/safe to take you from point A to point B. You don't need a big house; you just need to live in an adequate house in a safe and clean neighborhood. Not having to worry about money when you are old is priceless.
At age 34, he OP has a good start on what he will need for retirement. Another 20 or 30 yrs of growth, along with continuing contribution will help.
Yeah this was a good comment to read and others. You all are right on the aspect that I’m surrounded by incompetency and feel like I have “wealth” when realistically it’s just savings.
To be very clear, you \*do not\* have the kind of savings necessary to buy a Boxter without putting yourself in the same precarious position as your other family members. Forget about the fancy sports car and continue to be responsible with your savings.
I'm going to echo what everyone else has said on this. Assuming your investments double every ten years and you retire at 65, your 401k (with no additional contributions) is only going to be $2 million. Maybe it'll be $3 million with contributions you'll continue to make. You might be able to have a comfortable retirement. But the moment you start bleeding cash for family, you're going to start limiting your options. I'm a couple years younger than you, but I would not view $250k in a 401k as "wealth". To me, that's just being on track for a comfortable retirement based on the rule of thumb to have 3x income at 40.
I know, me too. I thought OP was going to say they were sitting on millions of dollars, not 300k between savings and a retirement account. 300k isn’t going to go far between 9 people with luxury vehicles and fancy vacations.
And keep inind he would have to pay a 10% penalty, PLUS income tax on anything he withdraws from 401k fund prematurely
This was my thought too lol. Your “wealth”? Sounds like a good solid amount of savings for his age but wealth- no, not really.
This should be higher. He’s like poor people wealthy, not for real wealthy. A single medical bill can clean out all of his savings. 😬
I actually chuckled when it went from rich to I have $80k in the bank. Bless him. I guess he is technically better with money than the rest of them, but he doesn't understand that he's standing on a cliff edge right now. I don't want him to feel bad or dumb about all of us saying this, I just think he doesn't really understand because everybody else around him is so incredibly bad with money.
\^ THIS. Owes roughly 1/3 on a home and has minimal retirement savings. I wouldn't even call this financial snapshot all that comfortable at this stage, as a single major health issue could wipe out everything put away. A news sports car is a pretty frivolous and ill-advised purchase. The last thing the OP should be doing, tho, is wiping out the elective debt of others. NTA.
I was expecting a couple million, lets face it a million doesn't go as far as it used to. Most retirees have just about that in 401K/IRA and find out it won't last as long as they thought unless they are very careful.
NTA. I hate to break it to you but you really are just one long layoff away from losing your savings. Do not give your family money. You need to continue to prioritize saving your money. Remember the years will go quickly and college for your kid is going to cost money.
You really actually don’t have that much money. They recommend 6 months expenses saved and that is barely enough. What if you both lose your jobs or 1 of you gets sick and has expensive medical bills. And never touch the 401k. It doesn’t exist.
House not paid off, $82k in the bank and wants to purchase a mid-life-crisis on wheels. OP talks like he's better than his family but not hugely.
My mind is blown. He’s chastising his family for buying luxury cars, Stanley cups, and fancy vacations. Meanwhile he’s about to blow his entire savings on ::checks notes:: a luxury sports car. Yeah, good thing OP is not like the other girls. 🙄
On the other hand, OP is talking about saving for it, not financing it. There's a world of difference between blowing money you have on a luxury and blowing money you don't have on one. Is it a great idea in this circumstance? No. But it's way better than how the family would go about it.
Definitely not blowing the whole savings that would be extremely dumb (although the temptation is real to get something high end even put money down and finance something big) But I want to continue saving and using some of it on a sports car, that actually isn’t a Boxster, I just put that in there because I won’t shut up about the other one and feel like someone will guess and then know it’s me. It’s about $30k-$50k used and is fairly reliable too so I know what to expect with ownership cost wise.
I'm not going to be as critical here as everyone else has been, but I still don't think you're in "buy sports car in cash" territory with your finances my dude. You have a wife and a kid, and while you have a great job right now, I think you need to prioritize building your savings more before you consider spending thirty to fifty grand all at once. Should something terrible happen, you want to be able to continue to support your family throughout it because it's obvious that you won't be able to rely on your extended family for any assistance at all. The job market for high-income people can be a fickle mistress, and there's no guarantee that if you get laid off for whatever reason that you'd be able to secure a $175k salary again any time soon. You're in a good financial position right now, and you should not give any money to your family, but I also don't think you should be considering spending even half of your life savings on a sports car. Nonetheless, NTA.
Please have a meeting with a financial advisor to go over everything and bring you down to earth. You're doing better than many for your age, but I think you still might not be on track for a comfortable retirement. Let a professional look those numbers over and tell you what you can afford.
If you \*have\* to buy a sportscar, buy a Miata. New they are around $30-35k, one of the most reliable cars made, maintenance is cheap, and car insurance is very cheap - it's cheaper to insure than a Honda Civic.
>And never touch the 401k. It doesn’t exist. This. I wouldn’t even consider it part of my “wealth”. The minute you consider it an asset is when you’re going to start thinking about spending it. Honestly, I cashed out my 401k at 30 to finance my ex’s startup. He never paid me back and was an all around jerk, especially when I finally broke up with him. Sucks that I lost that money but better to learn that lesson upfront than at a later point in time.
NTA The fact that all your relatives are in debt but continue to spend money like they aren’t should tell you that if you bail them out now, nothing will change. And when they get in debt again, they’ll expect you to help again, and again. Their debt is nothing new, you’re just now hearing about it. They won’t sell the boat and kayaks, they’ll still take lavish trips and buy new cars every few years. The best thing you can do is tell your parents to sell the toys. Clue your sister in that the parents are just as broke as her so she needs to stop going to them. If your other sibs have nothing to sell, then say nothing. Have your wife speak to her parents, stay away from that.
Them having 2 campers is absolutely blowing my mind. Having 1 camper was enough of a pain in the ass for me, and the newer ones are generally shit that stay in the shop for repairs constantly. I can't imagine how much they're blowing just to maintain them.
NTA. You don't have wealth. You have a year's worth of expenses in savings in case something terrible happens. Don't waste it on other people and their poor financial decisions.
So true; honestly, what this guy has is pretty much the minimum to not be at risk of a financial downward spiral in the case of a bad life event. He absolutely should not put himself in the danger zone to bail other people out of their own irresponsibility, because let's be frank here, it's not ignorance of how money works that's created their situations; these people are \*choosing\* to live beyond their means.
Or follow their example and buy a fancy toy when he has a child that is every day getting closer to needing an unmentioned college fund. He needs to set his early midlife crisis mobile aside and dedicate some money towards his kids potential future needs.
The kid already has a 529 and is set. See my update… I know I didn’t put that in there but it’s not my money. It’s my kids.
Not what you've asked but you are not as rich as you think you are. Buying the Boxster is on itself a financial error you would be making given your financial position. NTA, nevertheless.
Yup, pay off the house and then get a car, when you can afford it. Why pay interest on a loan, you could pay off?
No offence but you clearly ain’t wealthy nor good with money either! Your savings are peanuts! And if you think you can afford a car with a starting price of 70k with what you have you are delusional and just as bad with money as them!
NTA. You worked hard and had self-control to be able to put aside that money. You earned it. Giving it to them and helping them pay off their bad decisions will not help them in the long run because it won’t change their habits, but it will get you taken advantage of. If they had seriously medical problems they needed help paying for, that would be one thing, but no one needs that many water bottles to match outfits, or expensive toys they can’t afford.
It is not THAT much money for 34 year old. Keep saving and investing. I had close to your savings amount and my brother just showed up unannounced. He needed my help to settle in a foreign country. No English, no savings, no car, no nothing. But kept houses and farms back at home saying he was planning to sell them later…had to give him my car, and buy myself another used car, pay for his student visa and classes (expensive af), health insurance, car insurance, clothes, gas money, and he wanted to go to the gym so my grocery bill x10 since he is into weightlifting, rent free in my rental unit, then he didn’t feel “safe” without a safety net so I had to give him all my money earmarked for house renovation because he said he could do it for me. 6 months later nothing was done, house ripped aparts, smells with constant cooking of meats (I am vegetarian) and constant attitude of “you didn’t do shit for me.” Eventually I came to the open house, car is gone (he even found and took the car title in my documents binder), my son’s clothes, my dad’s dewalt tools, all cash for renovation. I will recover. But my point is no matter how much you do for the family, it is never going to be enough. My mother immediately stopped talking to me.
NTA. It’s been my experience that, once you start loaning money to family, it turns into an expectation whenever they get in a bind. And it is highly unlikely to be paid back. They made the debt, they can figure out how to get out of it.
>I have $82k in savings .... planning on continuing to save and buy a Boxster cash (obviously keep some left over) Hate to break it to you but if your income is 100k then your emergency fund should be 50-75k. Congrats on reaching that but can't afford that fancy status symbol (boxster) yet. Keep saving 👍
NTA with a caveat. Your parents and in laws have the means to dig themselves out of debt, they just need to bite the bullet and unload some of their status symbol toys. The next time they mention the sad state of affairs have a list of remedial financial consultants suitable for their actual income bracket. It’s up to them to cut back their spending and start living within their means. Your siblings probably have unaffordable status symbols as well but if you think they would be open to you suggesting financial counseling, suggest it and if they get on board wholeheartedly you might consider helping them expedite paying down their debt. If neither is interested, you have no obligation to help anyone not willing to help themselves. This allows you to buy your expensive new toy without feeling guilt. But I think it’s concerning that you and your wife keep your finances separate with no knowledge of each other’s assets. Why? Do you not trust her? Does she not trust you? Does this mean there’s no joint account as well? How are household expenses paid, or do you take the total of everything and divide by half?
This is what confused me. I think OP is NTA and does not have to help others. But why does his wife not know?
I agree. You should not hide things from your wife. If you don’t trust her, she shouldn’t be your wife.
Yea, are they on the same page about the future, especially with a kid? Extra curricular activities, college, summer camp, vacations, whatever? And about retirement?
Hi there. I have some family members who are the same. I tried to help in every way. Giving them money to clear arrears, helping with missed payments. Years of it. I had to stop and back away because the reckless spending continued. You aren't responsible for them. Don't feed into it, don't feel guilty for being sensible. If you start with one then where do you draw the line? I also really think that they confide in you because they know you have money. If you give into the guilt then it will not end well. They won't change, they'll get worse. What I started doing when my family members complained, was mirror them. I let them know that they had gotten everything from me that I could give. I started to complain about the cost of living, I told them I had to get a new car on finance, I told them I was struggling.... They're still buying new cars, still taking nice holidays... I tell them that I envy them. Best of luck with it.
NTA. Other people’s poor handling of money is not your responsibility. It would be different it were medical debt or something. That being said, you’re not flat out “rich” from what you’ve described. Don’t get me wrong, you’re being financially responsible and taking care of your assets but if people get it in their heads that you’re “well off” it can be very difficult to dissuade them. You don’t need to have a lot for people to think that you’ve got it made. Be very careful about that.
NTA, and while you're doing well right now, you absolutely don't have a lot of wealth. While you definitely have a nice chunk in savings, a serious illness, major home repair, or layoff can take a huge chunk of it (well, illness in US, anyway). If two of those things happened in the same year, how much would you have leftover? That's my rule of thumb for spending down significantly from my savings for a non-emergency. Granted, you are free to do what you want, and I would certainly by a car before gifting significant sums of money to profligate spenders, but it's worth having a strong rainy day fund. When life deals us lemons, it's usually enough for a whole pitcher of lemonade.
NTA wait on the car for a few more years or you will have played your hand for all to see. To have money you have to save it and to save it you have to hide it.
Think of it like alcoholism: You can’t fix their problems. Only they can, and only when they admit they have them. Also: you’re not wealthy. Not even close. You have a good start, but a long row to hoe. If you start wasting your money on things that have no monetary value to you, what little resource you have will disappear, and no one will be better off. They are making their bed. Let them lie in it. And if you can’t disassociate, get some counseling to learn to be objective. NTA
You are not wealthy. You are frugal. I know compared to your family, you seem wealthy, but you are barely middleclass. Buy the car, but don't tell anyone you paid cash. Let them think what they want. If they assume you are in the same boat as them, then they won't harass you for money. Your finances are no one else's business. Continue doing what you are doing and stop feeling guilty about people who willfully put themselves in position to become homeless. If you want to help them long-term, tell them to contact a debt consolidation entity. They helped me twice when I was stupid. You lose credit cards, and your credit is tanked for a while, but they will help you get out of debt. They talk to everyone you owe money to and set up payment plans and get the interest to stop piling up. They will advise regarding selling redundant items, or items that can help to bring down the debt without becoming homeless. This is on them, not you. Good luck. That kind of guilt is hard to deal with, but it is NOT on you to solve their money problems.
Congratulations on breaking the cycle, but what you have is actually a normal amount of savings, I don’t think anyone would consider you wealthy. Have you started a college fund for your child? Would put your money towards that and see a financial advisor about investing. Buying a flashy high maintenance car that depreciates in value sounds like something your family would do. And definitely let them figure their own financial situations out, if you paid for anything for them, would let it be some financial counseling.
You can’t afford to help your family. You’re doing OK, but they will wipe you out. NTA.
NTA. It's not like you can finance their lifestyles, and it doesn't look likely that you'd never get paid back. If their habits adjust and they show some measure of dependability, then maaaaaaybe it'd worth loaning some cash, but right now, it sounds like they'd just blow through your money and learn nothing. You're a lot more likely to get pulled down than you would to push them up.
Making a 100k of a average job is not enough, but 80k in the bank is wealth? Americans have weird perspectives.
NTA. You can't help people who don't want to help themselves. Also you aren't really in a position to help anyone imo. $82k savings in US is good don't get me wrong but how far can that money help any of your family members. Personally yourself is just one emergency away from being in debt and wiping out your savings.
The "keeping it from your wife" is a bit of a red flag, but the rest, common sense. Do not give your hard-earned wealth to your profligate relatives...
NTA. OP, you are not wealthy, sorry. You have maybe 1-2 years' living expenses available to you. A single major illness nor covered by insurance could wipe that out. Count yourself wealthy when your savings and assets can fund 100 years of your family's normal living expenses at your current standard of living. Your message to your family should be that you don't have money to spare, but since you're breaking even every now and then you can offer them some financial advice to deal with the issues. That financial advice really boils down to common sense things, such as selling the expensive toys, limiting expenditures, and making - and sticking - with a budget. If your family refuses to do that, or says that they don't need your advice, that’s an excellent excuse for you to appear offended. And say "I guess we shouldn't talk about money then." If they aren’t willing to follow your advice on financial matters, then you should make it clear you have nothing more to give them.
Yeah, when he said rich I was thinking like trust fund multiple properties rich. OP’s more stable than the average person, but like you said it’s just one accident or moment of bad luck away from ruin.
But why are you hiding from your wife?
The only thing that's weird here is that your wife doesn't know how much you have. Suggests you don't trust her with money either. Don't know how that's supposed to work long term with a child, what about college funds? NTA for everything else.
NTA, you should tell them you can help but only after they sell some of the extra stuff and start budgeting. Do they look at their monthly expenses? Do they have an accountant? This requires a lifestyle change and one you alone might not be able to change.
Keeping your wealth private is your choice, and you're not obligated to bail out family members who haven't been responsible with their finances. It's okay to prioritize your own financial goals and stability. Maybe a heart-to-heart about money management could help them without putting you in a tough spot.
Come on man. You know better. The moment you disclose your finances and momentarily bail out the irresponsible lifestyle, the floodgates of requests, pressure and guilt tripping will open and acrimony and resentment will ensue with you, your relatives and your spouse. Whether you keep funding, stop funding or try to thread the needle and fund on a case by case basis. There may be a smaller amount of this when you are seen sporting the fancy car.
Dude. NONE OF THIS IS YOUR PROBLEM. And even if you bail them out they’re just going to do it all again. Don’t do it. NTA.
If you start. It’s never going to end. There’s always going to be an emergency. Your probably going to have to save them every year. And your going to need to help because you know “family”. They will manipulate, guilt and lie to her your money. No matter what. Do not mention your money. Tell them you’re barely making it. Also you think you have money. Tell them you do and you’ll find out how fast it disappears from your account. People like them are a bottomless pit of debt. I know because my mother supported her family so much that she has to live with me. She can’t even afford to get her own apartment. what’s funny is none of those people she helped will willingly care for her in her old age.
NTA for hiding it from your blood family, but keeping it from your wife makes zero sense to me. How are you both supposed to plan for your future? For retirement? For your child? Does she just trust you to take care of everything? I think you need to be open about it with your immediate family so you both can make fact-based financial decisions.
Keeping finances seperate from your wife is super weird
Setting aside all the detail in here YTA for hiding your finances from your wife.
If you want to help, I think a reasonable thing would be to fix their heater or pay for an after school activity for the kids. I wouldn’t give them money.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Throwaway account because I don’t know who lurks my main. I am 34 oldest of 5 and am married with 1 kid. My wife and I keep our finances separate. She knows I have money but I don’t think she realizes how much I have put away over the years. My siblings, in-laws, and parents are awful with money. They buy a new vehicle every couple of years they can barely afford, spend money on unnecessary stuff and vacations. Recently my sister told me her car is 3 months behind and and she keeps borrowing money from my parents to pay it. My parents told me they maxed out their credit card and aren’t sure how to go about it. They didn’t mention the amount, my in laws said money is tight and are 4 months behind on their mortgage. My brother says he defaulted on a $4k loan that sounded like a predatory loan. It makes me sick to think about especially when they confide in me these things, and I feel like I should help them because I can but I worry about being taken advantage of. I also feel like they put themselves in these situations, my parents have plenty of “toys” (boats, kayaks, 2x campers, etc) they could sell, my in laws both drive very expensive SUVs including a new BMW X5. My sister put a whole trip overseas on a credit card. I watch them spend money in shops. One has 4-6 Stanley water bottles because they want colors to match their outfit. Meanwhile I have everything paid off besides the house. I have $82k in savings $250k in 401k. My income is very good and I think my family suspects that because they know what I do for work.. I was planning on continuing to save and buy a Boxster cash (obviously keep some left over) But my guilt factor is telling me I should help family before getting fancy car I’ve been wanting. I would hate for my in-laws to lose the house and have my nieces and nephews on the street or worse while I drive a new car around, I also (as bad as it sounds) don’t want anyone moving in with me. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - You've earned what you have and will have, just as they will earn what they have and won't have.
NTA. Don't give them a cent, they'll just piss it away and expect more in the future. Your money is your business. Keep adding to your savings and 401k.
NTA. Ask yourself this. If one of them came to you and asked you to give them, let's say, 30k to buy a boxer, would you give it? No, I daresay you wouldn't. You'd call them ridiculous and tell them to pay it themselves, or get something they can afford. So why would you pay for their toys and lifestyle *after* the purchase has been made?
NTA. If you feel the need to help. That’s fine!! But that’s not something you should feel obliged to do. They are sadly probably only telling you because they suspect your finances are in good standing and expect you to bail them out. Personally I would just act broke 😂😂😂 but that’s just me. Because YOU worked for what you have. No one else.
NTA bro. Don't let those people inside your finances, and be sure to lock down your wife too. Gotta be a unified front. They will take you and her for everything they can and more.
Nope.. you know what will happen..you help one even if you say tell no one they will and faster that you can say oh shit everyone will have their hand out.. and after you have given everything you have. The names and guilt will start for not giving more.. if you are feeling guilty about having money.. I will take it...give to something that will use it for good. Like make a wish or wounded warrior. That would be a better use for your hard earned money.. keep that in mind you earned it not them they are entitled to shit.
Nope. Don’t do it. They consistently make choices to bring upon terrible situations. You have made choices to set up yourself and your immediate family. I know it can suck to watch them suffer, but it doesn’t mean you need to suffer along with them.
NTA. If they weren't making stupid choices, you'd still be NTA but you could assist them if you saw fit in a way that doesn't penalise you but helps them get back into gear. But your family are making poor choices with no plan to do anything about it, and you covering their debts would just enable them to make further bad choices and assume that you'll save them when the time comes. And that time will inevitably come again. My family suspects that I have money. And I do, because I worked very hard and did a lot over the years to get to where I am so that I can provide a comfortable life for my kids. They didn't do the same for me when I was a child, so they aren't entitled to any of it now. That's for *my* kids. They make their choices as adults. They live with those choices. They suspect, but they don't know for certain. But there's always the snide little remarks. The expectation that I'll cover the meal bill because "You can afford it, right?". I should fly my entire family to the other side of the country to visit them because I have more money than them. Again, they don't know. Money tells you who people are. If you don't want to know who they really are, don't let them know you have money. It's that simple.
NTA. You start down the road of financial assistance for others piss poor planning and it’s a slippery slope where they will continue as they are because they know you’ll bail them out
NTA. They need debt counseling and a solid financial plan. Don’t help them, they need to help themselves.
NTA if a sibling had fallen on hard times and you had a contract in place I'd say help them. But in this instance, everyone is just throwing it away and hoping for a saviour to swoop in. Don't be that guy, you won't see a penny and instead they'll all blame you for not helping sooner and will badger you for years looking for more and more...
Have them sell their toys first. If they are not willing to do that then can kick rocks.
You are on the verge of opening Pandora’s Box if you choose to now help all your family members financially. Be very, very, careful with the decision you make.
Do you know what would make you the AH? Paying their debts. It would let them avoid the reckoning they need to fix their self destructive practices. They will never pull themselves up if they do not change their behaviors. At most, offer to pay for them to take a reputable financial boot camp, like Ramsay or other tough program. Then they will have the tools to steer their ship back away from the waterfall ETA: do not tell anyone of your financial position. For one thing, you are not all that wealthy. You're doing okay, but not enough to bail others out. More importantly, they would never let you have peace if they knew. This probably applies to your wife, too, unfortunately, unless she has been as disciplined as you
First of all, NTA. But, wow man, that’s a lot of money to save up over the years. You should just be proud of yourself, you earned the money, don’t let others shitty decisions affect you.
Nta. If someone was responsible and trustworthy you could help with a small gift or loan on the rare occasion. But don’t throw money away on people that spend their money stupidly.
NTA. Get the Boxster. You've earned it. And if you give them money once, the demands will never stop.
Give a man a fish....
NTA, it'd be one thing if your family was really struggling. They are NOT struggling. They are refusing to live within their means. If you help them you will always be helping them.
Nta, pay off your house before any loaning.
Whatever you do don’t say shit because the second you do you become the brand new line of cash or credit for these people. I promise you that there are other ways to help them even though they don’t seem to care about helping themselves
The only reason you are thinking like this is because at some point you have been conditioned to share everything. Its time to think only of you, your wife and your child. The others will only free load off of you due to their own ineptitude and spendthrift ways.
I would pay the mortgage and the loan directly and not hand them the money
Nta. Money doesn't full bottomless holes very well. Pay off this problem and they will rack up more. If they wanted some help to change, eg pain financial counselling, that might be different and you could help them that that. Sounds unlikely though.
NTA and congratulations on having a conscience, it sucks sometimes. I think your on the right track as you actively realize they're not great with money, not that they're struggling financially. They made their bed and they should sleep in it, not move in and sleep in yours. Find ways to help them short term, potentially monetarily, and think of how to continue helping them with a hand off approach that doesn't involve your funds. Don't discuss your finances in detail and speak in general terms or they might continue to expect the short term help or be offended and not want to take your advice.
Give them money, if you can accept to never get it back. And remember, once you start giving them money, your wallet becomes their wallet and you will never make enough to satisfy all their wishes (deliberately saying „wishes“, not „needs“). NTA.
Nta You have some savings, but you're not really wealthy enough to be giving money out to people. If you want support them, see if they are open to financial advice maybe from a neutral professional.
Every time you feel bad, remember that it’s not that you would be paying their debts but that you would be buying their cars/boats/holidays etc for them. You’re not wealthy enough to be doing that.
NTA - perhaps instead concentrate in helping by "teaching them how to fish". Just say that you are debt free and are happy to pass on some tips to help them get their heads above water. Your savings (don't think of it as wealth, it is literally money that hasn't been spent) is not your family's "get out of jail free" account.
NTA and don't tell anyone anything! When I get a great job that paid double what I had before I made the mistake of telling the family. Suddenly everyone had their hand out, or expected me to pay when we went out. It was ridiculous! In your case even if you paid of the current debt your family sounds like it would only put themselves back in the same situation, and probably more quickly knowing you were there to bail them out. Keep your savings, offer advice, but don't advertise what you have if you want to keep ahead. Its not your responsibility to bail out everyone else.
NTA If you help it will not end they will come back for more
If you buy the car and they ask just say its financed problem solved don't tell them anything about your savings
Keep your money. It will only be wasted if you offer it. They have managed up to now, so let them deal with their mess. In an emergency, you could pay off a debt directly, not give them the money to pay it, after seeing proof that the debt is real. NTA Avoid getting involved, it's not your problem.
NTA. You feel bad for driving a fancy car because you think you should help people who choose to drive fancy cars over keeping their home? OP, you need to snap out of this guilt trip. Those people are adults who are responsible for their own desicions. You are not their father who helps them out because you raised them poorly. Don't take that role in this family.
NTA. But speaking as a man who got hit by a long-term layoff following his long-time employer's surprise bankruptcy, while at the same time going through a divorce, you don't have anywhere near as much money as you imagine. Don't feel guilty not helping your family members financially while they still have plenty of ways to unass their lifestyles.
Unless you want to become broke after becoming EVERYONE'S ATM, DON'T TELL ANY OF THEM. It's none of their business. NTA. Your wife might be pissed though if she finds out. But if she'd push you to give your hard earned money to people pissing their money away...
Don't do it Op! You didn't mention how you and your wife handle bills. Regardless, the only two people you should be concerned with are your wife and child. You will never get them off of you if you even hint at having any money. My dad made the same mistake as a young man. He signed for a loan for one of his brother's and they defaulted. It ruined his credit and it took him years to recover. He still hasn't learned his lesson. He works a blue collar job and easily makes over 200k yet you'd never know it as he's constantly financing other people's debt. It will never end. Nta but avoid making purchases that'll draw attention to yourself. You may want to put your dream car on hold.
NTA. Giving them or lending them ( but let’s face it, you’ll never get the money back) money will not help them. You’ll only be enabling them to spend more money they don’t have. As painful as it sounds, you need to let them figure out how to solve their own problems. What you can do is maybe, if they are willing to help themselves and change their behavior, sit down with them and figure out how they can pay off their loan. As you said, a lot of them have assets they can sell to pay down their loan. Along with downgrading their lifestyles and maybe find additional income, they will probably be able to slowly pay off their loans
You are in the right here, you can wait it out and if the do go homeless give them a LITTLE boost and help them get back on there feet
NTA but seriously don’t buy a Boxster or you will be the AH. Not because of your family but because they’re lame
NTA You CAN help them by sending them to a financial advisor. What you CAN'T do is save them. Next time they mention bills or debt, recommend one. LIE and tell them you've been to one, too.
Don't. It will never stop. If you give money to one person, everyone will want some. Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm. They are adults and they made stupid choices. NTA
Well done to you for the hard work and making savings. Personally I wouldn’t spend a huge chunk on a boxster, keep going and get a 911.
NTA , but would be not very smart if you rewarded their bad behavior. That puts your kid at risk. I get that the Boxster is your dream car but based on those numbers, I don’t get a sense you are in Boxster territory - I.e., you can afford one when you can afford two.
NTA for not telling your family. Kinda weird to keep your finances separate from your spouse though.
NTA - Keep your money. You have a nice safety net. You do not have enough to dig all these adults out of their bad financial choices. If you break weak and say something like....if you do x, y, and z, I will help you. All they will hear is you have money that could be theirs. Cue the drama, gaslighting, and guilting. Also, if you give in once it will be expected again. In this situation, I think it is a good thing only you know what you have.
NTA but might want to forgo the fancy car if it’s going to cause drama. I’d feel differently if they didn’t have so many “toys.” Personally I’d rather drive an old Corolla than end up having to fund their bad financial decisions.
NTA You bet they would buy that car.
“Help people who help themselves”, is my mantra. Agree with everyone else: you’re only wealthy relative to their financial incompetence. Edit: NTA
To add to chorus, you won’t be helping them — just delaying the inevitable collapse. You’d be, proverbially, throwing good money after bad. I would hold off on your car purchase though until this situation with itself out or you’ll never hear the end of it.
First off; its great that you have broken the cycle and exert self control and dicipline with your money. - But second off; You are not wealthy. You are not even financially secure to be honest. You are doing good. But, you are one: but mah familyyyy move away from being in a less good situation. 82k+250k is not alot of money in the grand scheme of things. It wont pay for a bad health scenario and/or a new roof, without leaving you hand to mouth again! Right now you have a good buffer but if you lost your job or something horrible happened with your house its not a: Oh I wont feel this - amount. You might benefit from seeing a financial advisor so your savings, could work for you rather than just sit in an account. If you have debt - in your house - consider paying it off rather than buying a Boxster whatever that is. Sometimes being surrounded by people who have made bad financial decissions - and tell you all about the consequences, can skewer your perception and understanding of what wealth is. You dont fall into the wealth category in my eyes. Your 401k isnt big enough to retire on, your savings isnt enough to cover a bad health situation or a new roof - and you have debt in your house. NTA btw - but please dont make the mistake of thinking that your family will ever stop expecting payouts from you once you start.
NTA. They can sell some of their toys to pay out the debt. First sign they get that you have a resource they'll nag you incessantly till it's drained.
NTA Next time they complain you could suggest as kindly as possible that they swap their cars for something more modest. But as your parents have discovered helping them with money will never end. So sad. And a terrible example to their children.
>I also feel like they put themselves in these situations, my parents have plenty of “toys” (boats, kayaks, 2x campers, etc) they could sell, my in laws both drive very expensive SUVs including a new BMW X5. My sister put a whole trip overseas on a credit card. I watch them spend money in shops. One has 4-6 Stanley water bottles because they want colors to match their outfit. If you were to lend them money, they'd not unlearn these bad financial behaviours - they'd just burn through your savings like they burn through their paychecks. You don't have " wealth " in the exact meaning of the word, you have some solid savings which you need for your own family of 3, first and foremost, not to fund another colour of a Stanley cup. NTA
NTA. I would not say you have “wealth” you have savings that can disappear in an instant. You yourself talk about buying an unnecessary expense. Pay off that mortgage before throwing your money away
$82k is not a lot. So youre not rich really. Everyone else with their brand new cars, and "toys", which by itself is worth more than you have in savings, then maxxing out credit cards for holidays and buying expensive shit is their problems, not yours. Next time they ask for money, or hint just tell them to sell something. You can't afford to live their lifestyle, neither can they. But its their doing.
Financially you're fine but not set for life. It feels like you're set for life because the people around you are bad with money. But if or when you start "helping" them with money you will also be one of the people in your family that's bad with money. The only difference is is that they will have a car/house/boat to show for it and you will have an ungrateful person telling you that they again messed up/ and what do you need your money for. NtA.
Dude, you got no wealth
Self inflicted wound does not deserve sympathy, let alone help. Giving them money will only enable them to spend more.
NTA. You could help them by offering to help them budget, or create an Ebay Account to sell things to get out of debt. A few episodes of Dave Ramsey. And be honest with them about your fears. "Hey Mom, it's worrying me that you've maxed out your credit cards. Do you have a budget your'e working to help pay them off? Would you like me to help identify where you can save some money and get that debt paid off? Maybe I could come over and we could have a clear out of things and list stuff on Bay to raise some cash Hi Mom-in-law, I'm sorry to hear things are tight - would you like me to come over and help clear out some stuff that you can sell to raise money to clear off that debt. Or can I help with phone calls to lenders to let them know what you can pay?
"But my guilt factor is telling me I should help family before getting fancy car I’ve been wanting. " They have gotten their fancy new cars when they havent worked for it.
NTA you are not rich, you are not anything close to wealthy, you are barely comfortable. To put it into perspective, in todays economy id say 1M is middle class/more likely to be upper middle class and that is STILL not wealthy or rich
YtA to Yourself if you help them 82k nah thats not a lot of money if someone gets sick or gets laid off or wants to make a career change. You still have a mortgage so whilst you pretty solid and can take a hit, bankrolling everyone is way beyond what you have. They are telling you so you pay off their debts and they don't have to make hard decision's or change their lives, if you dig a bit they probably would be doing ok financially as well if they were a bit sensible. They don't want to change they want you to Do the hard work for them. Do not do it……they will never appreciate it, it will be never enough, it does not get paid back and it never stops
NTA. But you could do simple things as a Big Brother of the family who is doing well, such as, pay for dinners when you guys get together, bring over a bottle of whiskey when heading to parent’s house. Keep the family together despite their flaws, IMO family is special, blood. give advice and suggestions to your younger siblings, not a free hand out. As for your parents, you should talk to them.
They would spend that $80k in seconds. They are grown adults who've made their own decisions. DO NOT your future at risk for their mistakes. Also, DO NOT feel guilty.
NTA. Giving them money without them wanting to change their poor financial habits is like lighting it on fire. What’s more, they will repeatedly try to guilt you for more. You cannot fix these issues for them and throwing money at this problem is like putting a bandaid on a broken leg. Been there, done that
NTA be careful they’d buy the fancy car and move in with you.
NTA. The best way to help them is not to pay off their debts. A drowning man will always drag the rescuer to the bottom.
NTA, you will regret telling them
NTA. I’m a very generous person. I’ve even inherited teens… unfortunately my generosity has me basically drowning and I still put those I care about first. The truth is, if I was a millionaire the greatest high would be helping people.
NTA for not spending your money on extended family It's your money, not theirs. But i mean... You can't on the one hand say they're bad with money because they keep spending it on "toys" while simultaneously saying you're also going to be spending most of your savings on a toy. You've got a 401k set up, you've got a somewhat decent amount of savings, but not "i can buy, maintain and insure Boxster, and if someone hits me it's all ok" savings. Hell, just your employer deciding they don't like you would force you to dip into things and sell off your toy. What is the savings for your childs future like? Kind off an AH for not thinking that far
It sounds very clear that at least some members of your family are irresponsible with money. They buy all kinds of expensive luxury items they don't need, and max out credit cards doing so. They don't save and they don't budget. There are people who barely get buy because they have low-paying jobs or high legitimate expenses, such as medical expenses. I'd be inclined to hope you'd help family members in that position, although you'd be under no obligation to do so. Your family OTOH isn't getting by because they overspend like crazy. Under no circumstances should you be facilitating this. If someone has a specific request or need in an emergency, that's one thing. But don't even think about subsidizing financial irresponsibility. Buy your car. You worked for it, you saved,, and you can afford it. Enjoy it! If your family wants help, offer to sit down with them and show them how to use simple apps that will help them to budget and save. (Betting they don't want that kind of help.) NTA
NTA. How much did any of them offer to help *you* before buying any of *their* toys?