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It sounds more like they're a matched set. They both use their phone while driving, but nag the other for it. They both check out people in public with their spouse, but get mad at the other for doing it.
OP is accusing his wife of these and you say she isn't taking accountability, but she's accused him of the same and OP takes zero accountability either.
Wife is so immature it takes her days to admit she was wrong and apologise for the car ticket and huff when questioned inoffensively about it, and in the meantime passive aggressively hurts husband by deliberately and obviously perving at and eye-fucking another guy in front of him.
She seems like a real peach. OP NTA.
I honestly thought it was going to end up with OP finding out that his wife got pulled over and gotten a ticket for ogling guys and running a red light or driving haphazardly
Yes, I was wondering that myself. Regarding her using the phone GPS, I was expecting to find out she was really using the Zoom on the phone camera to scope out dudes when she was pulled over. (Yes, I know, that sounds more like something a teenage boy would do...)
I don’t think your wife likes you very much tbh. I’m sorry but people don’t act like this in a healthy relationship and certainly don’t go out of their way to hurt their partner maliciously.
Not true. It’s not always flowers and rainbows. She should have never disrespected OP like that, but that only speaks to her vindictiveness. It does not mean she does not like OP lol
True, marriages can definitely have their ups and downs, but to be that blatant checking out a stranger seems unusually hostile, doesn't it?
Personally, I would never do that in front of my husband, or when by myself for that matter. I mean, I notice attractive people still, but I hope in a much more subtle way, ha!
If that's even an accurate description of her behavior. She could have just glanced at someone but in OP's head it was in slow motion with fans and lighting and all kinds of nonsense.
I am old and I don't think I've ever given someone a "fuck me now" look unless I meant it and it was in a private bedroom situation.
I don't even know how that would go in a public situation except maybe the husband is projecting something onto his wife.
Info
Do you even like your wife? And also, do you guys always turn such nothingburger situations into days-long conflict?
Yeah, she’s in the wrong for checking out a dude so openly in front of you, no question about it. But why was the ticket thing even an issue that turned into a fight, why are there several days of silent treatment etc between each part of this situation? Do you guys just not communicate or what is this?
This was my thought. It honestly sounds like they are just resentful towards each other and looking for any opportunity to be petty. Like the “why didn’t you use your dash gps?” Let’s be real, the fight started there and he felt the need to add that part in the story because he knew it was condescending and likely said it to be as such. He was dismissive of her when she called also.
She probably took this tone and reciprocated by openly eyeing the grocery store guy, and OP was probably more upset than he would be normally because they’re both avoidant and not resolving any minor quarrel.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, but it seems they don’t know how else to deal with conflict. I think the real issue here is communication and connection.
Well why *didn’t* she use her dash GPS? Driving with your phone out is dangerous. Asking why she didn’t use the safer option that they clearly have available isn’t petty, it’s a valid question.
my built in GPS takes much longer to type and isn't as accurate as my phone (can't even use it in a certain part of town because it directs me to cut through the local military base).
> a valid question
Yes, but what does it contribute to the discussion or their relationship? It sounds more like point scoring or pouring salt in a wound. Presumably the ticket is a punishment and wake-up call, does he really need to add some sort of “I told you so”? (FWIW I agree with you, of course it’s dangerous)
There is def a communication and resentment towards each other, however, I prob like her more than she likes me. We usually don't argue this long over petty things, I would say 80-90% of the time I try end the fights/arguments by apologizing/trying to fix things. I just don't think this method is sustainable long term, hence the reason this has dragged out so long. Also, my wife takes any sort of minor criticism personal and gets very defensive.
I'm not saying I'm perfect, and in this situation, I could've handled the call in a better way, stayed on the phone, and then later shouldn't have asked her why she didn't use the car GPS. It's a logical question in my mind but it can be condescending or criticism from her end
> end the fights/arguments by apologizing/trying to fix things
Just trying to pacify/end a discussion by apologizing will breed resentment - the real question is how and why these things are even becoming arguments in the first place. This isn’t a relationship sub but honestly if you can’t figure out how to get out of this loop you may want to consider relationship counseling. What you describe just sounds miserable for you both.
You and your wife have poor communication patterns. You need to work as a couple on expressing what’s going on with each other, your own feelings without blaming the other person, requesting what sort of support you need from your partner, having empathy in the moment for hurt feelings (be they from other or from you), choosing the time and place to discuss more difficult issues, stopping taking out anger on your partner even if they are a source of that anger, and on and on.
Go to couples counseling and learn some marriage communication skills before one of you has a revenge affair and destroys your marriage.
I def agree to everything you stated. However, in all fairness, this thread has turned into marriage advice and communication, etc. Although I do not disagree with anything you said, and we def need to work on those things. I just wanted to see if AITA in this situation. I do see my faults in this situation and it is so petty that small things lead to these long term arguments in our relationship
Fine. ESH (except your kids and the dude your wife eye-banged).
You're the AH for kicking your wife when she was down (upset about the ticket). She's an AH for her (1) passive-aggressive behavior flirting with another person and (2) for doing it in front of you.
>I prob like her more than she likes me
I was going to say a variation of this, but I'm glad you're self-aware. There really isn't any solution here because there will always be a power balance. Relationships are balanced by mutual respect. If the respect isn't mutual, then the power goes to the person who care and respect the least, in this case your wife.
She's going to expect you to suck it up as you've always done. That's the standard you've created in the relationship. Changing that standard later on in the relationship is never well received because the person causing the change is often seen as wrong. The best I can offer you is good luck.
NTA. you don’t stare at someone like that in front of your partner. “EvErYone DoEs it” doesn’t mean it’s cool to do. She knew exactly what she was doing. Now if you did it there would be all kinds of problems
It's one thing to accept it happens and let it go. But when it's flat out eye fucking is not only hurtful its flat out disrespectful.
It's summer now, there's beautiful legs thighs and hips out galore but I don't give more than a fleeting glance, with or without my partner around.
Would bother me too.
God you both sound like you fucking hate each other, just have a plain and open discussion with one another, and then either try and move and communicate or call it quits, living like this and walking on egg shells is no way to live for either of you
NTA... You need to call this behavior out IN THE MOMENT... if i have learned ANYTHING from previous relationships is that no matter what they will always use the "well you did it \*insert date/time/place\*. often times completely making it up to try and justify current behavior. Honestly cannot stand it if/when someone pulls this excuse.
Yep, I regret not calling her out at the moment. She got so defensive and tried turning it around on me that it was me looking at some girl in the produce section. I should've known it was going to turn into this with her
Honestly you have to shut down conversations like this and just end them and walk away. Unless she going to apologize WITHOUT trying to blame you for her actions then the apology is pointless/meaningless. Next time something like that happens and she tries to use the excuse tell her that unless she calls out the behavior in the moment then it didn't happen. You can't just use some sort of past event to justify current behavior its immature and irresponsible.
NTA, looking and finding others attractive is normal. Staring and oogling, giving him eyes, and turning around to continue being creepy is wrong. And the fact that she’s so blatantly doing it right in front of you is an even bigger problem. She knows what she did was wrong and that’s why she apologized.
You need to tell her and communicate that it hurt you though. Holding it in and being silent is not the answer.
Seems like there is a likely communication issue. Have you considered couples therapy? If you don't feel comfortable, validated, or safe bringing up topics that trouble you, regardless of timeframe imo; or even if she doesn't, it may be beneficial.
I won't pretend I have any massive insight into your relationship, and this post is just a snapshot. This is largely my interpretation based on experiences I've had. But if communication is sparse for days, and you feel stress and tension in your own home about her attitude/behavior for fear of repercussions or a perceived conflict, I can't imagine it feels great being around her. And, tbf, my step mother from the sounds of things ruled the house similarly. If close enough, I can't imagine the kids are having a great time either, as that tension and sass or pettiness (for lack of eloquence) is palpable to the kid(s), even when younger.
Regardless, I do NOT think you're the asshole. You were hurt by her actions, and you let her know. If she doesn't know, who's to say she won't do it again? It feels deflective and icky on her part that she's denying it, even after the subtle look to you after the super obvious action of checking someone out, and then accusing you in turn to distract. As a woman and partner, to do so so overtly and then slyly look at my partner would be intentionally disrespectful and hurtful. It feels disrespectful to do so even when he's not around, but it also helps I'm obsessed with him, and he's the most attractive thing on this planet in my eyes.
If that's not a point you feel you can bring up again either, as long as you both feel comfortable expressing yourselves to each other, I think it's safe to move on. Whatever you decide, OP, I wish you luck ❤
Thanks for the thoughtful post. That is so awesome you have a relationship like that with your partner. I don't even know what that feels like anymore and miss the days that I was in a relationship like that
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1.) I accused my wife of staring at another man in front of me.
2.) I accused her days later and accused her when she tried to reconcile an argument
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NTA- She purposely oogled at another guy and looked at you in a guilty matter. I’m sure the hug and apology was for both of those things but just know she only did that because she was pissed to some degree
Nothing worth being hung up over though. She doesn’t seem like the cheating type and loves you. Just do the same thing the next time y’all are mad at each other if you want to be petty about it lol
Other than that you’re good
NAH the ticket and the ogling are two separate issues. Please discuss your concerns with your wife about cell phone use while driving: it’s really dangerous for everyone and tickets are expensive. For the ogling, it happens. People can be just as beautiful as art, and sometimes we stop to admire them. She is married to you. She would not leave you to have a tryst with a random beautiful stranger, so relax.
ESH. You two argue over petty things way too much. You shoulda called her out on it when she did it instead of just stewing in the upset for days if it bothered you. Communication.
You both need to go to counselling. Your not communicating properly and it is hurting your relationship. People check out people but it seems like your wife is looking outside your marriage and fantasising.
The breakdown of communication and the throwing blame about the phone and 3 days of no talking is deffinetly a big issue. Take my advice and go to a relationship therapist so both work on communicating better.
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My wife called me while I was busy working to tell me she got pulled over and received a ticket for using her phone while driving. I tried to remain calm and end the call quickly, though I may have sounded annoyed, as she often accuses me of the same behavior despite her own phone use.
Later, when she recounted the incident to our daughter, she mentioned she was using the GPS on her phone. I casually asked why she didn’t use the car’s dashboard GPS instead. This question seemed to upset her, and she became defensive and started arguing.
The next day she was still upset and not speaking to me. I can't recall what happened but we were going to the grocery store, and the argument escalated over something we said to each other. We enter the store and a good looking guy walks past us, the top of shirt is unbuttoned, and he's showing his muscular chest. My wife stares at him, oogles him and gives him the fuck me now look. I can clearly see her staring at his chest and then his eyes. After he walks past us, she immediately turned around and looked at his butt. Then a few seconds later, she turns her head towards me, I'm assuming to see if I had seen her do that. I didn't say anything at the time but it bothered me and was so just so odd and unexpected. I guess I was still processing what happened.
Three days passed with minimal conversation until she unexpectedly apologized and hugged me. I reciprocated, but then mentioned how hurtful and embarrassing it was when she openly oogled (don't even know if this is a word) another man at the store, especially with our children there. She seemed confused and denied it, accusing me of staring at another woman in the produce section that same day, which only added to the tension.
I don’t mind if she finds others attractive, I get it, it's natural. However, bringing up my discomfort several days later, was this the right move? Should I have just let it go? Also for context, I don't care if she looks at other guys, I'm assuming everyone does this, but the way she did it was very hurtful and embarrassing.
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ESH. There's a whole lot of undercurrent here (she interrupted you while "busy working", she "accuses" you re your phone/car use) that suggests that you both have room to improve in your marriage. Wife messed up in both of these particular scenarios, sure, but it also seems like you're holding a lot of tension and not communicating appropriately, and then nothings become somethings. Do you guys even like each other anymore? And yes, ogle, one 'o', is a word.
I prob like her more than she likes me. I appreciate the thoughtful response, have to think about what you wrote. And thanks for mentioning it's 'ogle', I've never actually wrote/typed this word out before haha
You shouldn't be mad that your wife sometimes might check other guys out. That's lame and insecure and weak and frankly embarassing for you.
But it seems like what she was really doing was overtly oggling this guy, trying to upset you by doing something she knows you hate.
That second one is really bad, and IMO a bigger issue than who ITA.
Either way, get over your weird hangups about who women find attractive, and think hard about why you are with this person.
NTA, but really, you should've called her out in the moment. It's too easy after some time has passed for the other party to sort of deflect and minimize what happened, it's a lot harder when you're able to say "I literally JUST saw you do it."
I guarantee you she remembers perfectly well.
It's true that we aren't blind and when we see an attractive individual it's normal to briefly check them out, but to flat-out ogle and stare and make a point of it... that's pretty shitty behaviour, even if you have no intention of ever actually pursuing the person you were ogling.
I don't think you are. I think that's healthy and normal tbh to be able to point people out and talk about these things with your partner. That sounds so refreshing that you are your partner have that kind of a relationship
What did she apologize for if she didn't knownwhat u were referring too at the store? What was on the cars video screen that she wouldn't use its built in map with GPS? Can she video call or watch porn or something- just saying it's odd to be upset and defensive over, wierd if she usually uses the csr gps and wasnt. Maybe she was using car GPS and on the phone with someone and thatd why she got pulled over..
Are you sure that guy was a stranger? Seems weird it was out of character to do it, she woukd have done something similar when at the beach, swimming pool or somewhere else in your relationship.
Sorry as a guy that's picked a few cheaters in life, I look for holes in stories and possible truths when things don't seem to make sense and behavior is off.
She apologized for arguing with me about the car GPS thing. The entire thing is so odd. In my experience with her, I've learned to never trust a word she says because I never know what or how she feels about anything, and nor does she tell me the truth on how she feels about things. We have a limited set of things we talk about and stay in those boundaries. I do try to push her boundaries, discuss and converse more, but I think she feels uncomfortable or has no interest in opening up our communication.
I'm assuming this is learned behavior from her parents. They didn't not have good communication, her dad worked and stayed out of the house as much as he could, mom took care of the kids. Dad was only there so he can go to work. They didn't care for each other sincerely, got divorced in the end, both fighting for scraps and trying to eat the other. This is the story of her entire family, her siblings, aunts, uncles, parents, grandparents, etc.
Gonna check back in and second my therapy opinion, and that of others. If you once had a healthy relationship, or healthier, rather, but her learned behaviors are keeping her trapped in a toxic cycle, it is likely imo she'll drag you into misery, and potentially your children as well. She seems emotionally distant, and again imo, would benefit from therapy, individual and couples. (Gonna apologize if I ass-ume too much now :'v)
If you would like to try opening up communication again, here are some phrases that might help (hopefully 😅)
"I wanna talk about (thing that's bothering you/issue). Would you feel comfortable with that? "
"What can I do to help you feel more comfortable (doing task/discussing topics deemed 'out of bounds')"
"I would feel more understood if I could tell you how I feel about (x) without any retaliation. If we need to compromise afterwards, we can do so. Is that okay?"
If she starts getting aggravated, or accusatory, try to deescalate.
"I understand this can be upsetting to discuss. I don't want to fight; I want to talk about it. Would you be willing to do so?/is there a better time to talk about it when you're not so stressed?" Etc
And stand your ground on not fighting. If she's intent on it, just let her know y'all can talk when she's taken some time to think about it. You don't want to fight her to tell her how you feel. Really, you shouldn't have to. I will add the point of this discussion in particular is reinforcing to her that the action she performed was HURTFUL. If she can't take accountability, or try to sympathize, I'm not sure for the sake of yourself and kiddos this is a place you wanna be. You can also admit fault or sympathize for her for your actions, whether genuine or no, but this is the time for your feelings to be addressed. Any deflection continues the hurt, and provides distraction from her wrong. And this will be an absolute work in progress, especially if she has been doing this for so long. Give her grace, even your tone, provide patience and understanding as best as you can. It seems you're carrying a lot of unaddressed emotional weight, especially after the waning of your partner's support, and I'm sorry for that. Again, OP, I hope some of this helps, and I truly wish you luck ❤
This is a sort of “leaf on a tree” situation. I don’t think you two like each other very much, and you should get to the root of that.
NTA but yall should go to couples counseling
That was the reason I did not try to fix the situation or apologize for so many days. Now I'm the bad guy cause it was me who looked at someone in the produce section lol. I'm so fucked. There really is no hope and just living day by day at that point
Nah brother, you can make it back from this. Just start prioritizing yourself and how you’re feeling. Make sure if you’re offended you react with confidence when you confront and then own up to it when you’re wrong and apologize.
Don’t ask her to do things with you directly. Example; eat dinner and ask the kids if they wanna go for a walk. Then on the way out of the door tell your wife y’all are going for a walk and you’ll be back. Start exercising if you don’t already, start reading books, start working on yourself and don’t just volunteer information. Be mysterious.
Push toward positive changes physically and mentally. Regain your confidence and push for a better relationship with your wife. She’ll get curious and start making changes if she cares.
Being kind doesn’t mean being a doormat. Be kind to yourself first, then be kind to others. You can only do so much.
NTA for saying something, but yeah kinda the AH for bringing it up when she wanted to reconcile. You should have brought it up at least the same day it happened. Letting it fester for three days, though.. at that point, you maybe should have just let it go, maybe talked to your guy friends about it to get it off your chest.
Next time, bring it up at least the same day.
I don’t think anyone is at major fault here (not talking about ticket, mind you). Yes she stared dude up and down and could have been more subtle about it but there is no grave injustice done here. Go have a nice date together and forget about it.
So she can find others attractive as long as she does it in a way that is specific to your liking? Sounds a bit confusing. Maybe reconsider what is and isn’t ok to you. I don’t think you are ok with her finding others attractive.
Basically eye-fucking a stranger isn't cool for either sex to do. Why does the wife get a free creep pass when if the husband did it, this sub would already be lighting pyres ready to burn him??
Like others have said, a little look is fine and natural...but this sounds like a deliberate attempt to rile OP up
Women tend to use blowing up and accusations and gaslighting and projecting to defend themselves when they’re caught doing something. If men react exactly the same way we be abusive because we raising our voice being negative and aggressive. Women have sadly learned from society that they are not responsible for anything and they have zero accountability, and apparently in some cases boundaries in a relationship do not matter. at least they don’t matter until we offered a divorce lying asses!
? False? This is a person to person thing. Men can be just as blame avoidant as women. Hope you can take responsibility for your poor take :/
Fr tho, weird to boil it down to "woman moment"
NTA
sometimes you lose track of your face in the presence of a really hot person. my husband and i check people out together. its fun.
talk to your wife about the ticket. she messed up. she needs to not be on her phone while driving.
work on your own feelings about the oogling. why does it make you so uncomfortable? are you not confident in your appearance? does she not make you feel hot?
Yea, I def agre with you. With the right partner, it can be fun to point out or check out hot people as they pass by. I am not insecure and don't have an issue with her looking at another guy. What bothered me about this is that we were fighting, and then how she did it and the way she did it to let the guy know she was checking him out in front of me. I found it disrespectful.
NAH but INFO
Can you HONESTLY say you’ve never done it? TRUTHFULLY? EVER?
If it made you uncomfortable you’re NTA for saying that, but I would encourage you not to let it make you uncomfortable.
Yes, I look at other women, and I do not care that she looks at other guys. However, her making it so overly obvious, that's why I was uncomfortable about the way she did it. If I look at another woman and admire her looks, I don't let the woman know I'm interested in her, especially while my wife is standing next to me. That would be insulting to my wife imo.
Also, that guy knew my wife was checking him out. It's one thing to do it nonchalantly, but she did not do it passingly. It upset me cause she made it obvious to the other guy that she was into him. If we were at a swinger's party, sure, go right ahead and eye fuck a dude. But at a grocery store? With me and the kids? If we were not fighting, and she admired the guy and mentioned it to me that he's handsome, etc. Again, no big deal, I'm not against that and nor do I get jealousy over that.
Not trying to beat a dead horse, just trying to make the distinction between the two and why I was uncomfortable.
First of all, if you’re going to come at me all pissed off, at least brush up on your spelling and grammar.
Second, every human since the beginning of time has stared at people they consider attractive from time to time.
My husband used to work side by side near daily with a woman most would consider far hotter than me.
I know who I am and what I have. And what I don’t. And one of the things I don’t have, is the time or the brain space for jealousy.
🤣 that's not what I meant. i don't know you, may be you are far more "open" than others but for an avg woman her bf ogling at others while walking beside her is a hard boundary to cross.
For context, I have zero jealousy. Again, it was just the way she did it. She can have sex with another guy, it's her life, I don't care if she looks at another guy. But I am now also wondering if she does this often, what if I know the other person when she stares at people like this (it's embarrassing). It's just so odd to catch your partner doing this while you're standing next to them. It's the oogling that's weird, not her looking at another guy
Not the point of the post, but please understand that English is not everyone's first, second, or even third language. Please do not attack people for their grammatical/spelling errors.
OP - NTA. What she did was blatant and intentional. If it is still bothering you, I suggest waiting until things have cooled down between you two, and have an open conversation about your feelings regarding the situation.
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I'm just trying to figure out what the first part of your story had to do with the second part of your story.
OP walks on eggshells because his wife refuses to have accountability because she knows he is a doormat.
It sounds more like they're a matched set. They both use their phone while driving, but nag the other for it. They both check out people in public with their spouse, but get mad at the other for doing it. OP is accusing his wife of these and you say she isn't taking accountability, but she's accused him of the same and OP takes zero accountability either.
!delta
Wife is so immature it takes her days to admit she was wrong and apologise for the car ticket and huff when questioned inoffensively about it, and in the meantime passive aggressively hurts husband by deliberately and obviously perving at and eye-fucking another guy in front of him. She seems like a real peach. OP NTA.
I honestly thought it was going to end up with OP finding out that his wife got pulled over and gotten a ticket for ogling guys and running a red light or driving haphazardly
I thought it was going to end up being an American-Dad-rubber-necking kind of thing.
Because a peek don’t hurt, if you wanna scout skirt, you have to be covert, listen up you squirt.
Rubbernecking with the best 🎶
Yeah, me too. I was expecting him to check her phone and find pics
Yes, I was wondering that myself. Regarding her using the phone GPS, I was expecting to find out she was really using the Zoom on the phone camera to scope out dudes when she was pulled over. (Yes, I know, that sounds more like something a teenage boy would do...)
Was giving context on our current situation and where her head was when she did this
I don’t think your wife likes you very much tbh. I’m sorry but people don’t act like this in a healthy relationship and certainly don’t go out of their way to hurt their partner maliciously.
Not true. It’s not always flowers and rainbows. She should have never disrespected OP like that, but that only speaks to her vindictiveness. It does not mean she does not like OP lol
True, marriages can definitely have their ups and downs, but to be that blatant checking out a stranger seems unusually hostile, doesn't it? Personally, I would never do that in front of my husband, or when by myself for that matter. I mean, I notice attractive people still, but I hope in a much more subtle way, ha!
The thing is, having an argument doesn’t justify her openly having a “fuck me now” look staring at a hot dude.
If that's even an accurate description of her behavior. She could have just glanced at someone but in OP's head it was in slow motion with fans and lighting and all kinds of nonsense.
I am old and I don't think I've ever given someone a "fuck me now" look unless I meant it and it was in a private bedroom situation. I don't even know how that would go in a public situation except maybe the husband is projecting something onto his wife.
Info Do you even like your wife? And also, do you guys always turn such nothingburger situations into days-long conflict? Yeah, she’s in the wrong for checking out a dude so openly in front of you, no question about it. But why was the ticket thing even an issue that turned into a fight, why are there several days of silent treatment etc between each part of this situation? Do you guys just not communicate or what is this?
This was my thought. It honestly sounds like they are just resentful towards each other and looking for any opportunity to be petty. Like the “why didn’t you use your dash gps?” Let’s be real, the fight started there and he felt the need to add that part in the story because he knew it was condescending and likely said it to be as such. He was dismissive of her when she called also. She probably took this tone and reciprocated by openly eyeing the grocery store guy, and OP was probably more upset than he would be normally because they’re both avoidant and not resolving any minor quarrel. Two wrongs don’t make a right, but it seems they don’t know how else to deal with conflict. I think the real issue here is communication and connection.
Well why *didn’t* she use her dash GPS? Driving with your phone out is dangerous. Asking why she didn’t use the safer option that they clearly have available isn’t petty, it’s a valid question.
my built in GPS takes much longer to type and isn't as accurate as my phone (can't even use it in a certain part of town because it directs me to cut through the local military base).
My phone plugs into the dash and operates from there. My dash is basically my phone screen so this whole argument confuses me.
> a valid question Yes, but what does it contribute to the discussion or their relationship? It sounds more like point scoring or pouring salt in a wound. Presumably the ticket is a punishment and wake-up call, does he really need to add some sort of “I told you so”? (FWIW I agree with you, of course it’s dangerous)
There is def a communication and resentment towards each other, however, I prob like her more than she likes me. We usually don't argue this long over petty things, I would say 80-90% of the time I try end the fights/arguments by apologizing/trying to fix things. I just don't think this method is sustainable long term, hence the reason this has dragged out so long. Also, my wife takes any sort of minor criticism personal and gets very defensive. I'm not saying I'm perfect, and in this situation, I could've handled the call in a better way, stayed on the phone, and then later shouldn't have asked her why she didn't use the car GPS. It's a logical question in my mind but it can be condescending or criticism from her end
> end the fights/arguments by apologizing/trying to fix things Just trying to pacify/end a discussion by apologizing will breed resentment - the real question is how and why these things are even becoming arguments in the first place. This isn’t a relationship sub but honestly if you can’t figure out how to get out of this loop you may want to consider relationship counseling. What you describe just sounds miserable for you both.
You and your wife have poor communication patterns. You need to work as a couple on expressing what’s going on with each other, your own feelings without blaming the other person, requesting what sort of support you need from your partner, having empathy in the moment for hurt feelings (be they from other or from you), choosing the time and place to discuss more difficult issues, stopping taking out anger on your partner even if they are a source of that anger, and on and on. Go to couples counseling and learn some marriage communication skills before one of you has a revenge affair and destroys your marriage.
I def agree to everything you stated. However, in all fairness, this thread has turned into marriage advice and communication, etc. Although I do not disagree with anything you said, and we def need to work on those things. I just wanted to see if AITA in this situation. I do see my faults in this situation and it is so petty that small things lead to these long term arguments in our relationship
Fine. ESH (except your kids and the dude your wife eye-banged). You're the AH for kicking your wife when she was down (upset about the ticket). She's an AH for her (1) passive-aggressive behavior flirting with another person and (2) for doing it in front of you.
Maybe your insistence on wanting to be “right” (“winning” the AITA - or not) is a symptom of your greater problem … just saying
>I prob like her more than she likes me I was going to say a variation of this, but I'm glad you're self-aware. There really isn't any solution here because there will always be a power balance. Relationships are balanced by mutual respect. If the respect isn't mutual, then the power goes to the person who care and respect the least, in this case your wife. She's going to expect you to suck it up as you've always done. That's the standard you've created in the relationship. Changing that standard later on in the relationship is never well received because the person causing the change is often seen as wrong. The best I can offer you is good luck.
Makes sense. I've gotten to the point where I no longer care about anything. However, thanks for the honesty. It helps
NTA. you don’t stare at someone like that in front of your partner. “EvErYone DoEs it” doesn’t mean it’s cool to do. She knew exactly what she was doing. Now if you did it there would be all kinds of problems
She literally accuses him of doing the same thing, but she didn't bring it up until he brought up how she did it. How is that "all kinds of problems"?
NTA It's rude to do it that openly. Everyone checks others out, I get it. But you do it very discreetly when around your spouse.
Take mental snapshots, not videos.
It's one thing to accept it happens and let it go. But when it's flat out eye fucking is not only hurtful its flat out disrespectful. It's summer now, there's beautiful legs thighs and hips out galore but I don't give more than a fleeting glance, with or without my partner around. Would bother me too.
Agreed
God you both sound like you fucking hate each other, just have a plain and open discussion with one another, and then either try and move and communicate or call it quits, living like this and walking on egg shells is no way to live for either of you
Yea, I completely agree. Never would've guessed I would be in this situation with someone.
That was the guy she was talking to on the phone when she got the ticket!
Haha!
NTA... You need to call this behavior out IN THE MOMENT... if i have learned ANYTHING from previous relationships is that no matter what they will always use the "well you did it \*insert date/time/place\*. often times completely making it up to try and justify current behavior. Honestly cannot stand it if/when someone pulls this excuse.
Yep, I regret not calling her out at the moment. She got so defensive and tried turning it around on me that it was me looking at some girl in the produce section. I should've known it was going to turn into this with her
Honestly you have to shut down conversations like this and just end them and walk away. Unless she going to apologize WITHOUT trying to blame you for her actions then the apology is pointless/meaningless. Next time something like that happens and she tries to use the excuse tell her that unless she calls out the behavior in the moment then it didn't happen. You can't just use some sort of past event to justify current behavior its immature and irresponsible.
NTA She completely disrespected you and is completely out of pocket.
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
NTA, looking and finding others attractive is normal. Staring and oogling, giving him eyes, and turning around to continue being creepy is wrong. And the fact that she’s so blatantly doing it right in front of you is an even bigger problem. She knows what she did was wrong and that’s why she apologized. You need to tell her and communicate that it hurt you though. Holding it in and being silent is not the answer.
Seems like there is a likely communication issue. Have you considered couples therapy? If you don't feel comfortable, validated, or safe bringing up topics that trouble you, regardless of timeframe imo; or even if she doesn't, it may be beneficial. I won't pretend I have any massive insight into your relationship, and this post is just a snapshot. This is largely my interpretation based on experiences I've had. But if communication is sparse for days, and you feel stress and tension in your own home about her attitude/behavior for fear of repercussions or a perceived conflict, I can't imagine it feels great being around her. And, tbf, my step mother from the sounds of things ruled the house similarly. If close enough, I can't imagine the kids are having a great time either, as that tension and sass or pettiness (for lack of eloquence) is palpable to the kid(s), even when younger. Regardless, I do NOT think you're the asshole. You were hurt by her actions, and you let her know. If she doesn't know, who's to say she won't do it again? It feels deflective and icky on her part that she's denying it, even after the subtle look to you after the super obvious action of checking someone out, and then accusing you in turn to distract. As a woman and partner, to do so so overtly and then slyly look at my partner would be intentionally disrespectful and hurtful. It feels disrespectful to do so even when he's not around, but it also helps I'm obsessed with him, and he's the most attractive thing on this planet in my eyes. If that's not a point you feel you can bring up again either, as long as you both feel comfortable expressing yourselves to each other, I think it's safe to move on. Whatever you decide, OP, I wish you luck ❤
Thanks for the thoughtful post. That is so awesome you have a relationship like that with your partner. I don't even know what that feels like anymore and miss the days that I was in a relationship like that
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NTA- She purposely oogled at another guy and looked at you in a guilty matter. I’m sure the hug and apology was for both of those things but just know she only did that because she was pissed to some degree Nothing worth being hung up over though. She doesn’t seem like the cheating type and loves you. Just do the same thing the next time y’all are mad at each other if you want to be petty about it lol Other than that you’re good
No point in being petty imo. Life's too short. However, I do look and glance to admire. Nothing wrong with that!
So she retaliated, now you know how it feels.
ESH You're both childish as fuck.
That's fair to say
NTA It feels like she was doing it on purpose. Like a little jab because of your prior arguments.
NAH the ticket and the ogling are two separate issues. Please discuss your concerns with your wife about cell phone use while driving: it’s really dangerous for everyone and tickets are expensive. For the ogling, it happens. People can be just as beautiful as art, and sometimes we stop to admire them. She is married to you. She would not leave you to have a tryst with a random beautiful stranger, so relax.
NTA! She was so wrong and disrespectful! And then she had the audacity to gaslight when you mentioned it! Throw the whole wife away!
Haha
ESH. You two argue over petty things way too much. You shoulda called her out on it when she did it instead of just stewing in the upset for days if it bothered you. Communication.
I agree. It was a mistake not to call it out when it happened. Also, agree that our communication sucks
You both need to go to counselling. Your not communicating properly and it is hurting your relationship. People check out people but it seems like your wife is looking outside your marriage and fantasising. The breakdown of communication and the throwing blame about the phone and 3 days of no talking is deffinetly a big issue. Take my advice and go to a relationship therapist so both work on communicating better.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife called me while I was busy working to tell me she got pulled over and received a ticket for using her phone while driving. I tried to remain calm and end the call quickly, though I may have sounded annoyed, as she often accuses me of the same behavior despite her own phone use. Later, when she recounted the incident to our daughter, she mentioned she was using the GPS on her phone. I casually asked why she didn’t use the car’s dashboard GPS instead. This question seemed to upset her, and she became defensive and started arguing. The next day she was still upset and not speaking to me. I can't recall what happened but we were going to the grocery store, and the argument escalated over something we said to each other. We enter the store and a good looking guy walks past us, the top of shirt is unbuttoned, and he's showing his muscular chest. My wife stares at him, oogles him and gives him the fuck me now look. I can clearly see her staring at his chest and then his eyes. After he walks past us, she immediately turned around and looked at his butt. Then a few seconds later, she turns her head towards me, I'm assuming to see if I had seen her do that. I didn't say anything at the time but it bothered me and was so just so odd and unexpected. I guess I was still processing what happened. Three days passed with minimal conversation until she unexpectedly apologized and hugged me. I reciprocated, but then mentioned how hurtful and embarrassing it was when she openly oogled (don't even know if this is a word) another man at the store, especially with our children there. She seemed confused and denied it, accusing me of staring at another woman in the produce section that same day, which only added to the tension. I don’t mind if she finds others attractive, I get it, it's natural. However, bringing up my discomfort several days later, was this the right move? Should I have just let it go? Also for context, I don't care if she looks at other guys, I'm assuming everyone does this, but the way she did it was very hurtful and embarrassing. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
ESH. There's a whole lot of undercurrent here (she interrupted you while "busy working", she "accuses" you re your phone/car use) that suggests that you both have room to improve in your marriage. Wife messed up in both of these particular scenarios, sure, but it also seems like you're holding a lot of tension and not communicating appropriately, and then nothings become somethings. Do you guys even like each other anymore? And yes, ogle, one 'o', is a word.
I prob like her more than she likes me. I appreciate the thoughtful response, have to think about what you wrote. And thanks for mentioning it's 'ogle', I've never actually wrote/typed this word out before haha
It's a funny one! Best wishes to you.
Why was she trying to hide her sat-nav directions?
I don't think she was hiding her directions. She was prob on the phone with someone while driving I'm assuming
Ogled
Noted. Thanks
You shouldn't be mad that your wife sometimes might check other guys out. That's lame and insecure and weak and frankly embarassing for you. But it seems like what she was really doing was overtly oggling this guy, trying to upset you by doing something she knows you hate. That second one is really bad, and IMO a bigger issue than who ITA. Either way, get over your weird hangups about who women find attractive, and think hard about why you are with this person.
ESH
Info: would she get offended if you checked out another woman?
Of course, yes.
NTA, it sounds like your wife needs a Stone Cold Stunner followed by a five star frog splash.
NTA, but really, you should've called her out in the moment. It's too easy after some time has passed for the other party to sort of deflect and minimize what happened, it's a lot harder when you're able to say "I literally JUST saw you do it." I guarantee you she remembers perfectly well. It's true that we aren't blind and when we see an attractive individual it's normal to briefly check them out, but to flat-out ogle and stare and make a point of it... that's pretty shitty behaviour, even if you have no intention of ever actually pursuing the person you were ogling.
Yep, I regret not calling it out at the moment it happened. Now it's turned around on me that I looked at some girl in the produce section. FML
NAH are my partner and I the only ones who check out and point out beautiful people to each other of both sexes regularly?
I don't think you are. I think that's healthy and normal tbh to be able to point people out and talk about these things with your partner. That sounds so refreshing that you are your partner have that kind of a relationship
What did she apologize for if she didn't knownwhat u were referring too at the store? What was on the cars video screen that she wouldn't use its built in map with GPS? Can she video call or watch porn or something- just saying it's odd to be upset and defensive over, wierd if she usually uses the csr gps and wasnt. Maybe she was using car GPS and on the phone with someone and thatd why she got pulled over.. Are you sure that guy was a stranger? Seems weird it was out of character to do it, she woukd have done something similar when at the beach, swimming pool or somewhere else in your relationship. Sorry as a guy that's picked a few cheaters in life, I look for holes in stories and possible truths when things don't seem to make sense and behavior is off.
She apologized for arguing with me about the car GPS thing. The entire thing is so odd. In my experience with her, I've learned to never trust a word she says because I never know what or how she feels about anything, and nor does she tell me the truth on how she feels about things. We have a limited set of things we talk about and stay in those boundaries. I do try to push her boundaries, discuss and converse more, but I think she feels uncomfortable or has no interest in opening up our communication. I'm assuming this is learned behavior from her parents. They didn't not have good communication, her dad worked and stayed out of the house as much as he could, mom took care of the kids. Dad was only there so he can go to work. They didn't care for each other sincerely, got divorced in the end, both fighting for scraps and trying to eat the other. This is the story of her entire family, her siblings, aunts, uncles, parents, grandparents, etc.
She will make ur relationship toxic and end it, it's what she grew up as normal. Tough spot then, maybe go to couples therapy.
Gonna check back in and second my therapy opinion, and that of others. If you once had a healthy relationship, or healthier, rather, but her learned behaviors are keeping her trapped in a toxic cycle, it is likely imo she'll drag you into misery, and potentially your children as well. She seems emotionally distant, and again imo, would benefit from therapy, individual and couples. (Gonna apologize if I ass-ume too much now :'v) If you would like to try opening up communication again, here are some phrases that might help (hopefully 😅) "I wanna talk about (thing that's bothering you/issue). Would you feel comfortable with that? " "What can I do to help you feel more comfortable (doing task/discussing topics deemed 'out of bounds')" "I would feel more understood if I could tell you how I feel about (x) without any retaliation. If we need to compromise afterwards, we can do so. Is that okay?" If she starts getting aggravated, or accusatory, try to deescalate. "I understand this can be upsetting to discuss. I don't want to fight; I want to talk about it. Would you be willing to do so?/is there a better time to talk about it when you're not so stressed?" Etc And stand your ground on not fighting. If she's intent on it, just let her know y'all can talk when she's taken some time to think about it. You don't want to fight her to tell her how you feel. Really, you shouldn't have to. I will add the point of this discussion in particular is reinforcing to her that the action she performed was HURTFUL. If she can't take accountability, or try to sympathize, I'm not sure for the sake of yourself and kiddos this is a place you wanna be. You can also admit fault or sympathize for her for your actions, whether genuine or no, but this is the time for your feelings to be addressed. Any deflection continues the hurt, and provides distraction from her wrong. And this will be an absolute work in progress, especially if she has been doing this for so long. Give her grace, even your tone, provide patience and understanding as best as you can. It seems you're carrying a lot of unaddressed emotional weight, especially after the waning of your partner's support, and I'm sorry for that. Again, OP, I hope some of this helps, and I truly wish you luck ❤
How many ‘girls’ trips has she been on during the course of your relationshit?
This is a sort of “leaf on a tree” situation. I don’t think you two like each other very much, and you should get to the root of that. NTA but yall should go to couples counseling
It seems like you’re walking on egg shells. Stop being her doormat. Hold your wife accountable and stop letting things fester.
That was the reason I did not try to fix the situation or apologize for so many days. Now I'm the bad guy cause it was me who looked at someone in the produce section lol. I'm so fucked. There really is no hope and just living day by day at that point
Nah brother, you can make it back from this. Just start prioritizing yourself and how you’re feeling. Make sure if you’re offended you react with confidence when you confront and then own up to it when you’re wrong and apologize. Don’t ask her to do things with you directly. Example; eat dinner and ask the kids if they wanna go for a walk. Then on the way out of the door tell your wife y’all are going for a walk and you’ll be back. Start exercising if you don’t already, start reading books, start working on yourself and don’t just volunteer information. Be mysterious. Push toward positive changes physically and mentally. Regain your confidence and push for a better relationship with your wife. She’ll get curious and start making changes if she cares. Being kind doesn’t mean being a doormat. Be kind to yourself first, then be kind to others. You can only do so much.
NTA for saying something, but yeah kinda the AH for bringing it up when she wanted to reconcile. You should have brought it up at least the same day it happened. Letting it fester for three days, though.. at that point, you maybe should have just let it go, maybe talked to your guy friends about it to get it off your chest. Next time, bring it up at least the same day.
Yep, I should've mentioned it when it happened. Def nothing good came out of mentioning this days later, just turned around on me.
ESH! Break up so your child doesn’t think this is what a healthy relationship looks like
Brother, we welcome you. Monday is international chest day! We will see you at the benches.
Done!
She's not yours. It's just your turn.
Grow up
NTA, she DARVO'd you.
I don’t think anyone is at major fault here (not talking about ticket, mind you). Yes she stared dude up and down and could have been more subtle about it but there is no grave injustice done here. Go have a nice date together and forget about it.
It is hurtful I get it but let it go, like you said it’s natural and she obviously feels bad and apologised.
NTA she doesn’t respect you OP theres nothing wrong with checking your wife
in fact leave her now and lawyer up
So she can find others attractive as long as she does it in a way that is specific to your liking? Sounds a bit confusing. Maybe reconsider what is and isn’t ok to you. I don’t think you are ok with her finding others attractive.
Basically eye-fucking a stranger isn't cool for either sex to do. Why does the wife get a free creep pass when if the husband did it, this sub would already be lighting pyres ready to burn him?? Like others have said, a little look is fine and natural...but this sounds like a deliberate attempt to rile OP up
YTA, you sound exhausting.
Women tend to use blowing up and accusations and gaslighting and projecting to defend themselves when they’re caught doing something. If men react exactly the same way we be abusive because we raising our voice being negative and aggressive. Women have sadly learned from society that they are not responsible for anything and they have zero accountability, and apparently in some cases boundaries in a relationship do not matter. at least they don’t matter until we offered a divorce lying asses!
? False? This is a person to person thing. Men can be just as blame avoidant as women. Hope you can take responsibility for your poor take :/ Fr tho, weird to boil it down to "woman moment"
Leave her immediately (this would have been the advice if the roles were reversed) . But nah in all seriousness, you're NTA in this situation.
I know it's a joke but honestly, I don't think it's a bad idea if there are lots more instances like the two presented here.
Lawyer up bro.
Insecure much?
NTA she obviously did it to bother you and is now gaslighting and lying to you
I think so too
NTA sometimes you lose track of your face in the presence of a really hot person. my husband and i check people out together. its fun. talk to your wife about the ticket. she messed up. she needs to not be on her phone while driving. work on your own feelings about the oogling. why does it make you so uncomfortable? are you not confident in your appearance? does she not make you feel hot?
Yea, I def agre with you. With the right partner, it can be fun to point out or check out hot people as they pass by. I am not insecure and don't have an issue with her looking at another guy. What bothered me about this is that we were fighting, and then how she did it and the way she did it to let the guy know she was checking him out in front of me. I found it disrespectful.
does she have a history of trying to make you feel jealous?
Nope, I don't get jealous with her either. And if she does check out other guys, she hides it fairly well and isn't so obvious typically
NAH - I don‘t think she did anything wrong, and neither did you. You stated it makes you uncomfortable, which is totally fine.
NAH but INFO Can you HONESTLY say you’ve never done it? TRUTHFULLY? EVER? If it made you uncomfortable you’re NTA for saying that, but I would encourage you not to let it make you uncomfortable.
Yes, I look at other women, and I do not care that she looks at other guys. However, her making it so overly obvious, that's why I was uncomfortable about the way she did it. If I look at another woman and admire her looks, I don't let the woman know I'm interested in her, especially while my wife is standing next to me. That would be insulting to my wife imo. Also, that guy knew my wife was checking him out. It's one thing to do it nonchalantly, but she did not do it passingly. It upset me cause she made it obvious to the other guy that she was into him. If we were at a swinger's party, sure, go right ahead and eye fuck a dude. But at a grocery store? With me and the kids? If we were not fighting, and she admired the guy and mentioned it to me that he's handsome, etc. Again, no big deal, I'm not against that and nor do I get jealousy over that. Not trying to beat a dead horse, just trying to make the distinction between the two and why I was uncomfortable.
Does your boyfriend stairs and ogles hot chicks in front of you ?
First of all, if you’re going to come at me all pissed off, at least brush up on your spelling and grammar. Second, every human since the beginning of time has stared at people they consider attractive from time to time.
" in front of you " is the key here
I wouldn’t care if he did because I’m the one he married.
But most would and it doesn't take much brain power to understand that.
To let it bother you shows your insecurities, not your partner’s impropriety.
Everyone is insecure.....and there is a big difference between just looking and oogling.
My husband used to work side by side near daily with a woman most would consider far hotter than me. I know who I am and what I have. And what I don’t. And one of the things I don’t have, is the time or the brain space for jealousy.
🤣 that's not what I meant. i don't know you, may be you are far more "open" than others but for an avg woman her bf ogling at others while walking beside her is a hard boundary to cross.
For context, I have zero jealousy. Again, it was just the way she did it. She can have sex with another guy, it's her life, I don't care if she looks at another guy. But I am now also wondering if she does this often, what if I know the other person when she stares at people like this (it's embarrassing). It's just so odd to catch your partner doing this while you're standing next to them. It's the oogling that's weird, not her looking at another guy
Not the point of the post, but please understand that English is not everyone's first, second, or even third language. Please do not attack people for their grammatical/spelling errors. OP - NTA. What she did was blatant and intentional. If it is still bothering you, I suggest waiting until things have cooled down between you two, and have an open conversation about your feelings regarding the situation.
Lol. Are you sure you’re not as creepy as your wife too? Fixed it for you.
It's possible, but obviously not as overt as her lol
My man, we all know we look. But there’s a diff from taking a little peek to full on eye fucking.