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NTA and there would be no "picking up my daughter". I might have been open to supervised visits in my own home while my husband was present, but that's all.

I told her if she wants to get therapy with me and work on things before being a grandparent, I’d be happy to. My dad has been communicating all this back and forth. She said she isn’t interested in seeing me, only my daughter basically

Yea...I would tell them to fuck right off. Your poor child doesn't need that in her life and you don't either.

100% the way to go.

NTA OP. You are not a bad person for wanting to protect your daughter and shield her from your own mother. You are just a good parent doing the right thing. Your child does not need any of this drama coming from your mum Moving forward OP, you continue to stand your ground and do not cave in. Continue your therapy as much as you need. Secondly, I suggest you better lawyer up to create a will instructing that if in any event something happens to you and/or your husband you do not want your parents especially mum to have custody and access of your daughter and explain why. You can nominate your three siblings, husband's parents or your daughter's godparents (if there are) as secondary caregivers so that your mum cannot argue that in court Continue keeping your distance and protect your child. If you need to cut your parents off for good, do it for your daughter and your sake

Mom could still argue in court, she would just be more likely to lose if the parents wishes are well-recorded (especially with a mention of previous abuse).

You want your daughter kidnapped? Because that's how she'll get kidnapped.

OP- I also have mom with BPD… there is no winning. I also told her therapy is the only way to have a relationship with me. She declined and tried to get access to my kids through my ex husband. Just drop the rope and walk away. I have spent a lot of years in therapy and I’ve worked through it. She’ll never be the mom you want or need. It’s really terrible I know. But invest in therapy and work through it and leave her behind- it’s not worth it.

NTA and just the fact that she said she isn’t interested in you only your daughter scares the crap out of me. No contact for either of them. Your daughter is better off with no grandparents than ones who abused her mom and encouraged the abuse through silence

My mom was like this with my kids. I eventually stopped letting her see them mostly all together. She also sent me to abusive boarding schools. I really empathize with the OP here.

Even if she does these things, you should cut her off completely and utterly. And then move. She is not a safe person, and she will hurt your kid to punish you. Maybe not physically, but she will absolutely mess your kid up. Cut her and anyone that stood idly by when you were a kid, or that sides with her now out of your lives. They should never be alone with your child for any reason ever. NTA

The great part is that she took us all off their phone plan so I changed my number and blocked her. I’m currently selling my house and living at my in laws, I’ll be in a new house in less than 2 months

Good to moving. Don’t give too many people your new location.

Look into having your address info private. Here we can do it through the county clerk's office.

Excellent . Stay safe.

Hard no to this. They are looking for a new victim while she's still cute.

I have never allowed anyone I don’t have a solid relationship with to be around my child. I mean this in the kindest way possible but it’s your job to protect your child from this woman, period. Who knows what shit she’ll pull as LO gets older? What sinister shit she’ll be whispering in her ear? Plus, hopefully, if she never has a relationship with LO, she can’t try to get any sort of visitation. I’d research the laws where you live to see.

Do not let these people take your baby. You said you blocked them. Block your dad. They won’t change.

NTA. BPD really can't be treated with therapy (mainly because these narcissists are not the problem). I grew up similarly, my Mum was god-awful and abusive, my Dad the enabler. When he was dying with Cancer I was told I was making him sicker and she wished she had never had me. My adopted sister, however, has always been the Golden Child, although living with everything growing up has given her terrible anxiety, I basically went very LC and left them all together, living in the same city. All this to say - it will not change. And even if she is good as gold with your daughter - guess what. She will bad mouth you till the cows come home to her. My Mum did this with my girl when she turned around 16, hubby and I are drunks, addicts, broke, terrible parents blah blah blah (NOT the case). When my son came along - well, he was a problem. Everything he did was wrong and she tried to pit my kids against each other like she did with my sister and I. My son is not allowed alone with her (before I realized what was going on with my daughter I let her stay over there for summers. Now she will spend an hour or so with Mum when she visits from the UK, she's sick of it all too) I just give very vague reasons as to why. When I confronted her with all the abuse from my childhood she claimed I was so terrible she had no choice and she was always in the right; I got what I deserved. Take it from someone who has lived this path. You don't need her in your life, you don't need the painful reminders of your past anymore.

This is exactly what my mom said, that i was unruly and I basically deserved/needed it all. I was actually a straight a student when she first started abusing me, then I went crazy in my teens. I never deserved any of it though. No human being does

As someone with BPD, disagree. There’s a treatment program specifically designed for BPD and it’s helped me 1000%. But the person has to be willing to engage with it, commit to it, and admit that while their brain is fucked they are still responsible for their goddamn actions. Your Mum doesn’t sound like she has that self awareness to get there. I’m sorry you had to live through it.

OH HELL NO. You don’t get access to the baby without access to the parents. Also, consider reading the book “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents”. It is incredible.

You have your answer. She isn’t capable of being the mom you want. She will not admit to the abuse. Do not be around her and do t let her around your kid

So she can abuse your daughter, too? No way. Cut them off completely and never look back. NTA.

I think she will kidnap your baby if you allow her in. She'll use CPS to harass you.  Cut her out permanently. She and your dad are not safe people.

Why, though? Why put yourself through all of that energy and heartache to give your horrible mother and good for nothing father access to your father? You are NTA, obviously, but you do need to stop being kind of an A H to yourself and stop talking to these people.

Do not try therapy with them. At this point if they do try to “change” it is just to rope you back into their lives until you wake up one day and realize you’re back in your childhood position again

I couldn’t give less of a shit what she’s interested in, tbh. Or your father.

I would message your dad that until they respect you and apologize and do therapy then there will be no seeing your daughter

Even if they get therapy, people like that don’t change ever. I have seen friends who had parents like this. Therapy did nothing unfortunately. People are how they are and they rarely change.

NTA and there’s no picking up of your daughter along with no more communication with them

Nether one of them are safe for your daughter. Your mom will not break the cycle. Your dad won't stop it from hapoening.

Stop giving them chances. Youll be a mom Soon.

NTA Time to go fully NC with your parents, or they'll end up treating your daughter the way they treated you.

This is my worst fear. Thank you for your honesty.

PICK HER UP?!?!? AND TAKE HER FROM YOU!?!!? sorry for shouting...but this is insane...and thankfully you realize this... even with a healthy relationship that would be an unreasonable request so young... you will end up fighting to get her back... stand your ground...you've got this...

I think he meant for us all to go to lunch with me there, but he did offer to babysit while I moved last weekend. This is after I poured my heart out to him about why I’m going nc with my mom. He turned around and told her everything. When he offered to babysit, I told him that she’s a huge help with boxes and I can’t give her up. I said that jokingly because I already explained why I don’t trust him, and he asked anyways

that is not what he meant..because that is not what your mother meant... and you know this...

Don't even have a meal with them. They abused you. You have a wonderful family (and hopefully supportive inlaws). You don't need to have any contact with them.

Pick her up?? Did Hell freeze, and we missed it on the evening news???? Not for love or money. Your baby stays with you. Raving nutbags do not get access to the little wee ones

I'm gonna get downvoted to hell and back for this but here goes. OP, your mother put you in a very bad situation. DON'T be her to your daughter by allowing either of your parents ANY access to her. Be a BETTER parent to her and go NC with BOTH your parents. Your father is, in many ways, WORSE because he's manipulating you with supposed 'health problems', as well as not defending you AND offering you up to be sacrificial lamb to your mom. Do you really think he won't hesitate to do the same thing to your daughter? Even at under a year old?

Or worse, they'll turn your kid against you.

There is great temptation to think that this time it will be different, and of course, it almost never is. You're just making yourself unhappy again. Protect your kid. Never allow your kid to be with them unsupervised (by you). Do not negotiate on this point. Ever.

The children of scapegoats almost always become scapegoats themselves. Especially once they become old enough to have their own personalities and not just dress up dolls for the narc grandparents.

Don't let them start a relationship, if you're in a place with grandparents' rights, they have to have an existing relationship. Don't let them abuse your daughter the way they abused you.

NTA. Do what’s best for you and your baby, your parents won’t unfortunately. I know it is hard and you wish it was different, but it is how it is and no matter how hard you try, it won’t get better. So the best thing you can do is keep distance for your mental health.

I almost feel like this post was me asking for permission to take space. Thank you for this.

Look for a BORU post about a man that had to break up with his fiancée due to her abusive family. If you let your parents into your daughter’s life, your husband will leave you and take your daughter with you. Abuse is NOT ok, and you will never get the acceptance or love you want from your parents. Cut them off, and live a happy life with your husband and daughter. ETA link: https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1dyz2io/update_3_aitah_for_wanting_to_leave_my_finacee/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1

Just focus on yourself and your baby. You don’t need your parents making life hard for you. Now that you are an adult and don’t have to be around them, why would you want to? As a child, I understand you didn’t have a choice and were forced to be around them but as an adult, all I can say is just leave them behind and forget them.

NTA going by your further comments of how she has no interest in speaking to you or resolving the issues, and the comment that she's only interested in your daughter are huge red flags!, tell her to get fucked, her and your spineless father too. Go NC for you and your daughters sake. Good luck OP 

Thank you so much. I know it’s strange, my dad literally said she’s “go nuclear” talking to me. I’ve done nothing to her but be her punching bag for the last decade so I’m so confused why. I find it ironic that my mom can take 10 years of space from me, but I can’t go 24 hours without responding to a text without getting this outrageous reaction

Btw your dad is horribly abusive too. He enables your mother and threatens you by mentioning the heart palpitations. It's same bs as the shitlords who say they will commit suicide unless you do XYZ. It's a control tactic. They are not owed a grandchild and they fuck all have not earned it. You are worth it to yourself to cut all contact. Your siblings were less beaten down by them and saw they need the distance. It's harder for you because they broke you down longer. But you are gonna be a mom now and that baby needs you mentally well. Get therapy if you need help making the cut but for the love of god get rid of them they are disgusting people

Yes. Dad probably enables her because she enables his abuse. His is more manipulative which is why his red flag wasn't as obvious. NTA, and congrats on your new baby. This is just the beginning of tantrums you have to mom through, but it sucks that you're parents are starting them.

NTA. As a parent, your one and only job is to protect your child. As such, you don't need to make any excuses about anything you do to keep your child safe, and her safety goes before your parents' feelings, easy decision. Feel free to ignore your parents' typical manipulation tactics. Remember - your parents will always know how to push your buttons because they installed them.

That last line really got me because it’s so true. I thought years of therapy would have changed that for me

Don't beat yourself up about it. You are a person who deserves good parents. You just didn't get them. It's not your fault. Tell your dad you need some space, to "think" about it. Then, block them all and never reopen contact. If they bother you, get a restraining order. Don't let.your child near them.

The next time your dad tells you he is having palpitations tell him he needs to get off the phone and go to the hospital.

NTA. Ask dad where he is next time he says that, and tell him you're calling 911. If he does it again, actually call 911.

This would be incredible honestly. He keeps using his age (73), and different things to manipulate us. Last time he was napping, my mom called us and said he was dying and we needed to call him back. He’s the healthiest person I know

It's like an ex threatening self harm. Well then, you need a professional.

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. That's not disrespectful; that's reality. You are responsible for your children's safety. That's number one. If your mom was abusive then actions have consequences and she can suck it up. Which is more important to you and which is your primary responsibility? Making your mom happy or protecting this (and future) children? Keep your priorities straight, don't let her manipulate or gaslight you. Stay focused. Good luck, this likely is not going to be easy.

Why TF would you allow abusive people around your infant daughter? Are you seriously asking if you should? If you are, then YTA.

I would venture to guess that the way she thinks about herself is as low value because of the way her mother has treated her. Don't be too hard on her. She's learning. Motherhood will do that for you.

Stg I was looking for this comment. I'm going with ESH. Her parents for being abusive and OP for considering allowing her child around them. Like, why would you even chance putting your child through what you went through. **edited* removed word.

NTA. >My mom has blatantly said she doesn’t regret the way she treated me and she thinks it was ok. No, not acceptable. You can't trust that she will not repeat her behaviors. >He’ll sit there and watch her be abusive without saying anything because he doesn’t want to be her victim. He knows what she is like and is definitely an enabler. >My dad is texting me he is having heart palitations. He does this every time he doesn’t get his way. And a manipulative to boot! You need to keep yourself and your family safe. They are proving themselves to be unreliable and untrustworthy. Your sibs have cut her off. Why won't you do the same?

My brother is entirely nc, my sister is lc but right in the middle. They are sending me these messages through my sister. She is actually on my side luckily. My siblings grew up hating me, but we are all super close now

Your sister is not on your side when she is forwarding messages. She is being manipulated. There is no Switzerland. You cannot trust her to give an accurate report back to your parents, and what she passes on is curated. Please just cut your parents out, and if your sister wants to tell you what they say to her about you, refuse to hear it. A true friend would not pass on insults and would join you in the information embargo.

Tell your sister that you are NC with your parents and you don't want to hear about them or from them. Tell her to respect your wishes.

Why did they hate you in the past? Because they felt you stirred up your mother’s rage and wouldn’t keep your head down and keep silent? Were they scapegoating you because they saw your parents doing it? Congratulations on your little one. But have a living will made that specifically states neither of your parents can ever have custody of your child, or any other children you may have in the future.

NTA By asking you to text a date/time for him to pick up the baby is he thinking he's supposed to be able to take your 5 month old away from your home and your immediate presence? Even without a history of toxic parenting to the degree you describe that would be a big NO GO. The math seems pretty simple. In order to see the baby it will have to be done in your presence. To be in your presence they need to admit to the problems they created during your childhood, and participate in therapy to deal with the damage their words and actions caused.

NTA. The default verdict on these things is always to cut off your family. It is usually absurd. But it fr People on what you’ve described, your mother is really screwed up, and your dad is enabling her. Sounds like it’s best to keep them away from your kids and understand that your mother is not capable of loving you in a normal way. You’ve made a new family that loves you.

NTA Block both of them and make sure you and your husband are on the same page. Zero contact with you and especially your daughter. If she can't love you or listen to your feelings she doesn't deserve you or your baby. Reading this made my skin crawl a little. So sorry you had to go through that, but definitely cut them off before it starts again.

NTA but you will be an asshole if he keep allowing them access and to potentially harm your daughter. Are you in a jurisdiction where they have grandparents’ rights? Because you’re setting yourself up for a court fight if they can push for it. Your duty is to your daughter, not to hope you’re going be loved by narcissists.

My husband and I both are together and wouldn’t allow that. They’ve only met my daughter 4 times so I don’t think it would work

I’m sending you an internet hug while telling you you are being delusional. Why did you ever let them meet her . They will never change . They are not safe . You did not deserve this. I care more about your well being than they ever will . You cannot allow access- EVER!

Your mom may not be able to love you the “normal” way but that doesn’t mean you have to accept that or be okay with it. If she’s not capable of change (change that she can consistently demonstrate) you are wise to cut them off. If she treated you like sh*t it’s not crazy to think she would do that to your daughter. NTA

“There will be no ‘picking up my daughter’. Ever. Every single one of your children is estranged from you, including myself as of now, due to the horrendous way you treated us growing up. You have made it very clear that you will accept no accountability, and see nothing wrong with your behavior. Which means, you will undoubtedly see nothing wrong with treating my daughter this way as well. While it pains me that you will never be the parents I deserved, or the grandparents my child deserved, my daughter is now my number one priority, and under no circumstances will I knowingly subject her to the same treatment I received, and still receive, from you. I will protect her as a mother should, including and especially, from you. Know that you have created this situation, but I am taking control of it. Your despicable behavior has left me no other choice. I chose me, I chose my new family, I chose my daughter. You are no longer welcome, you are no longer allowed to be around my child, do not contact us again.” Send. Block. Live a happy life. NTA.

NTA As a parent it’s your job to protect your child.

My great grandmother pushed my great aunt(grandmothers sister) down a short flight of stairs during an argument. The incident caused brain damage that ultimately led to her death a few years later(damage not found and was improperly treated). It was 8 stairs. Your Mother absolutely will do something like this to your child if you let her. NTA now, but you would be if you let this woman near an innocent child.

YTA for exposing her to unsafe people.  Your mom is physically dangerous to you.  Your dad just goes along.  Neither of them are safe people to be around.  You should never have allowed them around your daughter.  I'm glad you've realized your mom can't be allowed around your daughter.  That needs to include your dad.  You should follow your siblings' example and cut them off.

NTA- Tell your father if he's having palpitations, you will be happy to call 911 for him. Consult a lawyer and make sure that grandparents rights are not thing in your state. Your parents are going to claim that you are unfit parent soon because they're not getting their way. Keep all the messages to help you get a cease and desist letter. Do not pick up any calls, let them go to voicemail. You know it's bs, but you need all the evidence to protect your child. Call your parent's bluff if need be.

My mom also had borderline. You won’t win this. She won’t ever go to therapy and even if she did she’d find a way to use it against you. She will try to gain access to your child through other relatives/friends (you take her to see a cousin or parents’ neighbor? Your mom will show up assuming you won’t cause a scene and she’ll get to see the baby). Do NOT take your daughter to see anyone your mom may be able to sweet talk into letting her just pop by because you’re such a big meanie. I assure you from experience she’s crying about how she’s a wonderful mother and you’re such a terrible daughter to keep her grandchild from her. Someone will buy this and scheme with her. Also, to be blunt, your dad also sucks. He’s doing this so you’ll cave to make HIS life easier. Feel free to DM me if you ever want commiseration, or to just vent.

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NTA. Go no contact. You are a parent now, and it's your job to protect your child the way you should have been protected. Don't let either of your parents near your children. Your parents absolutely will find a way to abuse your children, even if it isn't physical abuse, simply because they're your children. You also need to be prepared for your mom to send in the flying monkeys when your child is a little older. These will be mutual friends or relatives who will subtly encourage your child to have contact with your parents behind your back, or say things like, "Oh, your grandma really wants to see you but your mom is just being unreasonable." Make sure your child knows why Grandma isn't allowed to come around, and that anyone who tries to arrange a meeting with her isn't to be trusted.

My mother was very abusive to me. Once she gave me tips on how to slash my wrists more effectively. My kids are in their 20s now and have never met her. You're NTA but you would be the A H if you let these people into your child's life. Your duty is to your child and you must protect her. So take your father's advice and accept this is the way your mother is. Then go completely no contact with both of them.

I'm thinking hateful thoughts towards that witch on your behalf!

Nta. You would be if you gave either of them unsupervised access to your child so they could do the same to her.

NTA and your title suggests that you already know this! 

When my dad sends me texts like “your daughter would benefit from a relationship with all her grandparents” and “you need to take care of your parents in their older age” it makes me question myself

It's bald faced manipulation. Block and move on.

Um, no they don't. The answer to the first one is my daughter only needs healthy relationships. The answer to the second one is no, sorry, I owe you nothing. Psych nurse here. They are still renting out space in your head. Clear that space out! They are not worth one tiny brain cell or one neuron. They damaged you and manipulated you as a child. BOTH of them. They are not worthy of any relationship with you or your child. Pull out the big guns. Total no contact. Keep your sister in your life as long as she swears she will not divulge any info to your parents about you. Better if she was no contact with them. If she gives them any info, any pictures, etc, she's gone too. If they somehow get your address and suddenly show up at your house, do not answer the door and call the cops. Give photos of them to anyone who babysits, any preschool or school and say if these people show up, call the police. This is the long game. Don't put anything past them. Crazy people do crazy things. And plan crazy things for years. You may feel bad when they pass but don't. That will just give the other one license to use that guilt to their advantage. Good luck. Just remember, your daughter's safety is priority one, and crazy people do crazy things.

Tell him she does have a great relationship with all her grandparents. You don't consider them grandparents.

Your daughter would benefit not having such evil people in her life, and they needed to care, protect, and cherish you in your youth, but they didn't, so you really don't owe them the time of day.

^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (28f) just had my daughter five months ago after a year of infertility. My husband and I are over the moon, and we so in love. During this time, my estranged family started coming around again and were super excited for my daughter to be born. I was so happy that my mom was giving me attention for the first time that I didn’t notice the red flags. My mom has borderline personality disorder and has always been horrible to me. I’ve always been her scapegoat, and she’s done things ranging from telling me to off myself to shoving me down a flight of stairs. Her and my dad are still married, and he enables her behavior. He’ll sit there and watch her be abusive without saying anything because he doesn’t want to be her victim. My parents cut me off for the first time around 17, and I moved out. They sent me to two boarding schools before this, but I was on my own before high school finished. I worked super hard, finished a degree, bought my first house, and married an amazing husband. He has been there for me since being cut off from my parents. Now that I have a daughter, my parents expect access to her. At first, I was fine with this because I was so happy they were talking to me. Now, it makes my skin crawl. My mom has blatantly said she doesn’t regret the way she treated me and she thinks it was ok. I now don’t want her around my kid at all because she won’t admit or apologize to being at fault. All three of my siblings cut her off even though she wasn’t super abusive to them. She said she is willing to listen to their thoughts and feelings, but not mine because it’ll make her go “nuclear.” My dad said to text him back the date and time he can pick up my daughter, and he won’t have a talk with me about his behavior throughout my childhood. Basically, he told me to accept that this is how my mom is because she’s incapable of loving me in a normal way . AITAH for blocking them on everything, and refusing to accept this? My dad is texting me he is having heart palitations. He does this every time he doesn’t get his way. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*

NTA - your choice, if you dont want then near your kid then do what you must

NTA. You don't need these people in your life. Block them

NTA They didn't take responsibility for they're treatment of you. Nothing has changed. Unfortunately, I doubt it will. Supervised only and if their bad to you cut them off. They didn't deserve more than 1 chance and it's up to you of they've already blown that

NTA Your daughter's happiness and safety comes before an abuser's hurt feelings

I don’t even know why you’re feeling guilty about this. Your mom and dad confirmed that they have not changed a bit and will act the exact same way towards your child. You would be a massive asshole if you didn’t cut these people off. I know that they’re your parents and you want them in your life but you don’t want to enable them abusing your child, just like how your father enabled your mother to abuse you. Allowing people who you know will not treat your little girl right to have access to her would be insane. Stick to your guns and keep your toxic parents away. NTA

NTA, if she shoves your daughter down the stairs she could easily kill her.

NTA - Next time he says he is having heart palpitations, call an ambulance for him. Honestly, I feel he is worse than your mom. He could have done something to protect you, HIS CHILD, but decided to protect himself instead.

I think you should text him back the date and time he can come pick up your daughter. I think a reasonable date and time would be June 1, 2044. That will give you plenty of time to prepare your daughter for the meeting. Also, “I have to accept that Mom is incapable of loving me like a normal person (paraphrasing/correcting here). You and Mom have to accept that you have no say over what my daughter does, that is for Husband and me to decide.” Maybe throw in something about not wanting your daughter around people, who by their own admission-checks notes- aren’t normal and have serious health issues that potentially make them unsafe for a child to spend time with. But then again, I can be petty and spiteful so YMMV. NTA

NTA- Set your boundaries and don’t budge. Also, your father having “heart palpitations” is just the immature adult version of a 2 year old throwing a tantrum. Once you ignore the “palpitations”, be prepared for a new “serious” condition to appear and, of course, be your fault. This game ends when you stop playing. Don’t subject yourself or your husband or daughter to these people… what value do they really have in your life?

NTA keep that horrible woman away from your baby and beautiful life. Mazel to you guys

You will be the AH if you let your parents around your daughter as the abuse WILL happen

There is no reason good enough to justify letting this unrepentant and vile person into your child's life! Your dad is nuts too if he thinks he can just come over and take her. OP, do not waste one second of your baby's life having regrets about your stupid ' parents '. They still hold you in low regard, have no care for you or your feelings. Nothing's changed except now you have the opportunity to leave them behind forever and grow your own healthy family.

The fact that your siblings cut her off should tell you everything you need to know. The only question is why haven’t you done it yet

NTA! Your mom is fine with how she treated you. So why would you ever let her be around your daughter? Your dad is just as bad, if not worse, for watching her abusive behavior and expecting you to just accept it because that’s just the way she is. If your mother showed remorse and worked on herself, it would be one thing. I’m sorry your mom refuses to hold herself accountable, but until she does, she hasn’t earned the right to be a grandmother.

NTA. Can I tell you something from someone raised by BPD to another? They don't care about your daughter. For your mom, this is a way to hurt and control you in a "socially acceptable" way. For your dad, it's a way to enable his wife. Don't feel bad about NC or "keeping their grandkids away" because there's literally nothing to feel bad about. They DO NOT care about your daughter.

OP,  you mentioned having difficult relationships with your siblings in childhood. Was that due to triangulation and emotional manipulation coming from your parents? Were you and your siblings played against each other? If that's the case, it's quite possible your parents will try to create the same dysfunctional dynamics with your child. Either they'll mistreat her---- or, even worse--- they'll spoil her and fawn over her, while dripping poison in her ear about how you're the "mean mommy". Slowly encouraging your daughter to view you in a negative light, so that the scapegoating OP dynamic continues. This can horrifically damaging to child's development.  You would be fully justified ( and prudent) to go NC. NTA.

Yeah my mom worshipped my brother and told my siblings that I broke up their marriage and poisoned their family basically. They hated me until recently, it was hard seeing my siblings get so much love and affection and I got nothing.

I'm so sorry,  what a horrific way to treat an innocent child. I'm glad your siblings were able to outgrow that irrational hatred. I'd like to recommend looking up Dr. Rebecca Mandeville on YouTube,  she's got a series on Family Scapegoating Abuse, backed up years of research from working with people who were forced into the scapegoat role.  Wishing you healing, and happiness for the little nuclear family you've created ~

Pick up? The kid is only 5 months old! I don’t care who you are, that baby isn’t leaving my sight! Why on earth does the grandpa think it’s okay to come get the baby? No, visits will be supervised at all times and in my home, not somewhere else.

A lot of posts telling you that you must protect your daughter. I agree, but I want you to know that you are ALLOWED to make these choices. Manipulative parents can make you feel like you don't have a choice. You are allowed to keep your daughter away from abusive people. You are allowed to not have a relationship with people who hurt you. You are allowed to make rules and boundaries for yourself and your child. You are allowed to protect your family. Family is not blood, family is love. You choose your family, and you can make sure your daughter has a happy and safe life. I'm proud of you. Edit: NTA

Are you serious? FUCK THESE PEOPLE. An abusive mom and an enabler dad. If anything, you should go low or non-contact with them and also take steps to make sure everyone you know is aware they should NEVER be around your child. That includes pre-school, kindergarten, etc. when the kid is old enough to go. NTA but take precautions

You are so far from being the asshole that I wanna submit you for sainthood. Lol In all seriousness though, a comment you made took me from "obviously NTA" to "She may end up needing a restraining order." And that's the comment about how your mom doesn't wanna see you at all, she just expects access to your child. That is a HUGE "FUCK NO" from me. I would tell your father, next time he calls: "The 2 of you are absolutely delusional if you think I am going to let you take my child anywhere without me. You are doubly delusional if you think I am going to allow an abuser and her enabler to continue their cycle of shit behavior with my child. I thought I wanted you back in my life, but I am realizing how much of a stupid mistake that was. Please stop contacting me, and just so you know, if you show up at my house, or anywhere in public, to try and confront me or take my child, I will not hesitate to call the police and file harassment and/or attempted kidnapping charges. The 2 of you will never see my child without serious therapy and a change in behavior and attitude. You are not entitled to my child."

NTA. You are wisely protecting your daughter. Probably going NC is best.

NTA This behavior is unacceptable. Cut them off completely. Your mother sounds like an abusive monster and your father has enabled her every step of the way. Don't expose your daughter to this severe dysfunction.

Oh hell no. Your mother has serious issues and your father is a doormat. I know the feeling of wanting to love someone for what you wish they were and not acknowledging who they really are. It’s painful but you will be better off accepting the truth than hoping for something that’s never going to happen. NTA but now that you have your daughter to raise, her wellbeing has to be your priority and you can’t be your best self for her carrying the baggage that is your parents. Please choose the healthy option and cut them out of your life and that of your daughter just as your siblings have done. Then go on to be the best mom and the best you possible. They cannot force you to give them time with your child. Stay strong and say no. The choice is yours.

Do not let your child go anywhere with you mother. She has proven herself to be abusive. To all of her kids and you in particular. Your job is to keep your child safe not pander to your parents. You are totally NTA for saying no. You are being a good parent.

NTA. Putting your child in a situation to be abused once your mom gets bored of being a grandma is not worth it. If it was a choice between your father being hospitalized or your baby going through the same abuse you did, they can call an ambulance. Follow your siblings, go NC and continue to work with your partner to take care of your baby. 

NTA. You must do right by yourself and your daughter by keeping these awful people away. 

NTA. Don’t let them near your child. If you let your father have her and tell him to keep her from your mom, the first thing he will do is give her to your mom. If they try to pull the grandparents rights thing, make it clear to your attorney and/or the court the abuse your mom put you through and that your dad knew and did nothing to stop it.

Why would you even contemplate the thought of letting them have access to your daughter? Even with supervision? It’s mind boggling…

NTA block them both and do not give them access to your child. Why would you trust them to care for your child based on your history?

No is a complete sentence. You don't have to justify it. Knowing what you know about them, why let them be around your child? You have a right to protect your child from anything and anyone that may hurt her. You also have a husband. You 2 should be a united front. I believe in the whole "we each deal with our own family drama" in marriage until it comes to kids. He could take the fall and tell them that he decided they're not allowed access if you really can't face them

NTA.. Mama’s job is to protect her kids, well most do, just obviously not ours. It’s fine when they’re babies, but eventually the abuse will start.. well done for getting rid of them

NTA. Preserve your sanity and keep your daughter safe. Stay far!

OMG, PLEASE GO NC WITH BOTH OF THEM. Your daughters safety and your well-being is the only thing that matters here, I wouldn't trust them a single centimeter, they do not deserve to be grandparents, and you are under no obligation to give them access to your child. If it escalates, please look into getting a restraining order.

NTA and let no one tell you otherwise, keep them blocked. "WOW! Look at how well you've done! Clearly us treating you horribly and kicking you out at 17 makes us awesome parents because you turned out so good!"

NTA. You have two abusive parents, your mom and your dad. Protect your daughter.

So both of them abuse just in different ways. Please for your own sake go nc. Your daughter will thank you for protecting her one day and your mental health will no longer suffer. You cannot fix them.

NTA I cannot imagine a scenario where your abusers should have access (and unsupervised?!) to your child.  That makes absolutely no sense. These people will never change.  Your daughter will never be a "fix" for your relationship with them, and she doesn't deserve to be exposed to them. I hope at some point you are able to cleanly and precisely cut them from your life.

I'm sorry, what? Your father expects to pick up your 5 month old infant? Like just pick her up and go somewhere with the baby and not you? F that noise! You are never the AH for cutting off hateful people. You are never the AH for cutting off abusers. You are never the AH for keeping harmful people away from your child. NTA.

NTA. Tell your dad that as your parent who “knows how she is,” it was his job to protect you and he failed, so if he has heart palpitations, that’s rich as it’s the only indication he actually has a heart. Block them both.

Y T A if you give your mother unsupervised access to your daughter not the other way around

8

Definitely NTA!!! Your mother's "condition" isn't your problem to resolve or acccomodate! Your primary purpose is the health, safety and welfare of your child! Whenever you don't have 100% confidence of your child's health, safety and welfare, you disassociate and/or eliminate anyone or anything that may adversely effect her!!! Do not let any passive-aggressive responses effect your commitment to your daughter! Your siblings have set the example for reasons from their past that you may never know, the telling message is all three made the same decision! Do not compromise as even 1% chance of your daughter "being told off, or being shoved down a flight of stairs" isn't worth it!!!

NTA DON'T LET THESE PPL NEAR YOUR CHILD. Cut them off again. The peremptory way in which your dad insisted you hand over your child? CHILLS. Tell them to go away. Get a restraining order if they don't. Move if you have to do so.

An abusive parent doesn’t have any rights regarding the child they abused. As simple as that. Stick to your stance of not allowing your mother any access to your baby. NTA

Picking up your daughter? How did you not laugh in their faces? NTA.

NTA, tell them good bye and good riddance, they aren't going to change and you deserve better.

Definitely NTA In fact, your child is in danger with them. Please NEVER leave them alone with her! I'm so sorry you went through this! No child should.

NTA Keep yourself and your daughter far, far away from this toxic pair. Tell your father that hell will freeze over before they are allowed access to your daughter, and they need to accept that this is just how you are because you are incapable of loving people who have abused you all your life. Then work on making it real for yourself. For your daughter's sake if not your own, ignore that need for their attention & block them on everything. She deserves better & so do you.

NTA, no accountability, no therapy, no baby. They are not entitled to anything and it's actually a danger and disservice to your child to allow toxic people in their life. They already are trying to dictate access to your daughter. Nope, no, not gonna happen.

NTA sounds like you were raised in a very unhealthy environment. As a parent its your responsibility to do better than your parents did. IMHO cutting them out seems like a good call

NTA. I’ve been through a similar situation. I’m so sorry you didn’t get the parents you deserved. FWIW my brother who is still in contact with our mom has said I’m doing the right thing by not having her around my kids. When you’re a parent, your child’s emotional well being needs to come before your parents. You’ve got this.

NTA DO NOT ALLOW THESE ABUSERS NEAR YOUR CHILD. Everyone wants their parents' love and affection, they are the people who are supposed to provide unconditional love. Don't let your desire to finally get their love confuse you. Block them, ignore them, do not fold!!

He's lost his goddamn mind if he thinks he's picking up my child without settling this. It sounds like your mom has a well-documented grudge against you, so why are you the only one still begging for a relationship with her? Your other siblings have the right of the situation. Time to let that fantasy go. You're NTA here. Don't ever, ever let someone you don't trust have access to your child. My own abusive parents knew they'd never have my daughter alone, not even after admitting they fucked up.

NTA, but next time he tries to pull the "heart palpitations" act, ask him, "What heart?", and then change your number.

NTA and just tell your dad that this how you are. You want to be treated respectfully and lovingly in all your family interactions and those folks that cannot do that, you will go LC or NC. Also tell him that he has lost his daughter and he can blame his dear wife for that.

NTA You know this woman has been abusive to you and that your father has done nothing about it except to enable her. What makes you think she won’t abuse your child? Why give her the chance?

I am sorry your mom treated you that way and I hope you continue to heal. As someone who works with abused and neglected children, let me say that sometimes one child is the scapegoat and there is no real reason. You didn't deserve it then and you don't deserve it now. Mental illness is an explanation for behavior but is not an excuse. Unless your mother puts in the work to mend the relationship and take accountability for how her actions affect others, she has no right to demand anything of you. You have built your own family and have every right to protect your peace and your family. Your mother hasn't changed, she just has found something she wants. She couldn't even pretend to be civil. She has not earned the right to be in your child's life. Yes people can change, but she has not demonstrated changed behavior. She has never apologized or acknowledged her wrongdoings and feels she was justified. What is to stop her from doing the same to your child? AND even if she was a shitty parent but a good grandmother, you have zero obligation to invite the chaos and hurt she brings back into your life. Your child doesn't need to see you disrespected and you don't have to put your feelings on hold just because she is "family" or for your daughter to have a grandmother. It is better for your child to have no grandma in their life rather than having someone bad in it. You offered an olive branch. Mom didn't take it. The end. As much as it hurts, she has time and time again shown you who she is and it is time to lock the door and throw away the key on that relationship. Show your child that it doesn't matter how you know someone and what their relationship is to you... if they are bad people you can and should set boundaries and don't owe them a thing. NTA. Not by a mile.

You do know that it's your kid and you and your husband are the only ones who get to decide who has access, right?

Please keep your daughter away from your abusive parents. 

NTA. Hold firm, you're doing the right thing. If your mother can't accept that she did anything wrong, she WILL repeat it toward your kids. And imagine how she will talk about you the instant you & your husband are out of earshot.

Go no contact. I would never let her near your child. I was so lucky to have the best mom, but I've seen some psycho stuff my friends' moms put them through. Your mom won't change, even for a grandchild, and she might try and weaponize that child. You're doing the right thing. You have you and your child's best interests at heart. Enjoy your life, mom, and take heart.

NTA they suck

Nope! Full stop! No grandbaby for them now or ever in the future! Your siblings cut her off despite not receiving (that you're aware of) the same level of abuse as you did growing up. The fact that she almost sounds proud of having abused you while growing up tells you everything you need to know. Either she'll treat your daughter the same or use your daughter as her "redo" baby. Nta.

Listen to your gut. It's telling you what years of abuse is trying to gaslight you out of knowing. Their behavior is not acceptable and you are *not* required to let them see your child. Ever. Biological relation does not mean you have to take abuse. **You don't owe them anything.** Go back to NC, and enjoy your new, loving family. NTA.

YTA for letting these people back not only into your life but now your child's as well. Cut them off and go no contact just as your siblings have done. They never apologized for their actions to you. Why would you let them back in? You're a mother now so you have more at stake than ever. Your need for their approval isn't worth your child's safety.

Let me be clear: DO NOT PUT YOUR DAUGHTER’S SAFETY AT RISK ANY MORE. There is zero reason for these people to be in your life. There is zero reason for them to be in your daughter’s life. You are 100% allowed to cut them out permanently. No therapy will ever make this okay.

What do you mean “pick up your daughter?” She is not a toy you share. There is no benefit to your daughter to be picked up and handed over to your mother. So stop that right now. You need to take a huge break from your parents, keep your baby away, and het some therapy. Why would you even consider allowing your abuser to have access to a baby? I don’t get it.

Just go no contact with them again as they clearly did not change at all

Stand your ground, don’t let your daughter be alone with an abuser. You just don’t know what she’ll do, all it takes is for her to have a bad day and …..

NTA-protect yourself and child from these people.

The only way you'd be the AH in this situation would be if you allowed your horrible parents around your daughter. (Your dad is horrible too because he allows the abuse.) Block them. 

NTA. Your daughter's health, safety and even life are at risk of you let your parents have unsupervised visits. And quite frankly, your mental health is at risk even being in contact. Please seek therapy to build the confidence and tools to overcome the need you still have for their attention. It'll be worth it.

NTA. Next time your dad says he is having heart palpitations. Tell him " to call 911" If

For your daughter’s sake go NC. She doesn’t need your abusers in her life and neither do you. YNTA.

Why are you letting horrible people into your daughter’s life? Neither one of them is going to change. Cut them off once and for all and go live a fabulous life with your husband and daughter.

NTA, for pity sakes! You have to protect your child AND yourself from harm, especially if the harm comes disguised as someone who is supposed to love you, like your mom or your grandma. I don’t think I’d want any contact with Dad either, since he seems to believe he is powerless before her.

You need to protect your daughter from them. Block them everywhere and go live your happy life with your husband and baby.

NTA. I would highly recommend you keep them all very far from your child. Congratulations on your impending parenthood!

You should be blocking them on everyone and you should refuse to accept their behavior. I wouldn’t trust abusive parents around my kid. Do not text your dad a time and date to pick up your daughter. Tell him he isn’t to come around your daughter. Your mom even had the audacity to say that she doesn’t regret how she treated you. She is an evil woman. She just wants to see your daughter so she can have someone else to abusive most likely. Your siblings cut them off and you should do the same. You deserve to be treated better than them. If your dad is using the excuse of having heart palpitations everyone things don’t go his way, you are noticing this obvious pattern as he is trying to guilt you into doing what he wants. Don’t waste a moment more of your time with your parents. They are dangerous and the best thing to do is stay as far away from them as possible. You don’t owe them any explanation for avoiding them. Just block them on everything. If they find some way to harass you, call the authorities. Always keep toxic family away from you.

There is no way in Hell that I would let your parents drive off with that child. Not no way, not no how.

No, darling. NTA If your siblings are willing to write letters outlining her behavior and treatment toward you, ask them to do it, and have a notary. They're free. That person has no business being near any child and certainly not be left alone with one. I suggested the notarized letters because I doubt that she'll take no for an answer and might try to sue for visitation.

NTA Tell daddy dearest to go to the hospital for his heart as they can help fix that. And if the worst happens well someone will let you know eventually. Bottom line no access to your child any more by either of your parents. If they ever had a key change the locks even if they gave the key back. If you don’t already have one get a decent security system with exterior cameras. Keep your exterior doors locked even when you are home.

When your dad says he’s having heart palpitations, all you ever say is, “Then you should hang up now and call 911.” Don’t give in to threats or you will never have control of your own life again.

NTA. I would strongly consider going NC with them. If she can't even apologize to you for the abuse she unloaded on you, that's a deal breaker. And even if she says she's sorry, maybe you shouldn't trust her. Your parents don't have the right to access to your child. That's something that a parent can decide on, IF there's no chance they can cause harm. In your parents' case, you can't trust them. If your father is texting you, block him. He's trying to manipulate you.

NTA. I would not let a child of mine visit your parents without supervision. They do not seem able to provide a safe environment.

NTA . It’s your daughter and you protect her and trust your gut feeling. Also, they would never be with my child alone. Finally, you don’t get access to my kid without access through me but that doesn’t even matter because you should absolutely cut them off. Don’t fall for the “heart palpitations” thing. This is what people do to manipulate you. Guilt is not your friend here. I suggest checking out some podcasts by Gabor Matè to help you through your healing journey. *always* trust your gut. You might feel bad cutting them off, but if they hurt or sour your child against you, you’ll never forgive yourself and you’ll feel 100x worse than you do for cutting them off. Break the cycle.

bpd has some potent treatments that require loads of hardwork and determination, but a quick goggle search shows some good progress expectations for treatment. even remission is possible. an abuser has no rights. you owe her nothing. protect your kid from your **abuser.** the greatest gift is ending the abuse cycle. you are not responsible for your mother's mental health. she can go get herself into treatment and therapy if she really wants to be more capable of not hurting your and your family. your father sounds manipulative too. you also owe him nothing. if he has heart issues, talk to a doctor.  protect your id. protect yourself. protect your peace of mind, i'm sorry you went through such abuse from both your parents failure to stop your mother is also abusive). heal yourself, stay happy. 

NTA NTA NTA. My god I am so sorry you grew up in such a caustic family. I only know NJ family law but it may help. Grandparents have NO rights in NJ. If the parents are of sound mind and they say no, the grandparents cannot fall back on any rights as they are none in NJ. I truly hope that is the situation in your home. Both parents should be no contact. Your dad holds just as much fault. F*ck them both. You rose above. Stay where you are. This internet stranger is proud of who you are. Source: worked in NJ family court for 18 years.

NTA, and please do not let those people around your child. If your father is having heart issues, you can advise him to go to the hospital since it's very likely that he's using it as a diversion to avoid the actual issue. Use your siblings example, cut them off.

NTA but zebras don’t change their stripes. Stay no contact and embrace the beauty of life without the toxic crazies.

NTA. Anyone who has abused you should not get access to you or your child. Anyone who still openly disrespects you and mistreats you should not get access to you or your child. These are bare minimum rules so don't feel bad for enforcing them OP. Just block them and be done with it. Your dad's fake heart palpitations (and real manipulations) are not your problem.

If they were unsafe or unhealthy for you, they’ll be the same for your daughter. NC both of them. I once had a therapist who asked what I got from my relationship with my mom. When I responded that she was my mom and I owed her a relationship, she helped me understand how inaccurate that was. I hope you can do a cost-benefit analysis of your relationship with your parents.

NTA. Both of your parents are abusive and they will 100% be this way with your child, too. Please, for you and your family's safety and sanity go NC.

NTA Time for NO CONTACT!!!! Stick with the siblings only.

NTA. Please protect your daughter.

Ok as someone with BPD NTA. 100%. I have a 6 year old daughter and I see it as part of my job as her mother to protect her from my mental illness. My husband also steps in if he sees the start of an episode in me and redirects her so I have time to compose myself or step away until I can. When a lapse does happen with her I always talk to her later and apologise for my actions. And reassure her that it was caused by my brain being broken but I am still responsible for my actions and any repercussions. BUT I have had a shit tonne of therapy. And parenting classes. And BPD can be improved through therapy, if you are willing to engage with it. Sounds like your dad also has some big issues. My dad is a narcissist and his contact with my daughter is limited and supervised. He’s also been made very aware that I can and will go no contact if he crosses my boundaries. He reaches out and sets up meetings with us. Always in public and always with others. I never arrange it. And taking her away from you at 5 months even with ‘good’ parents. Nope. My sister who I trust implicitly and is the most doting aunt on the planet didn’t get a mummy less visit until my kid was over a year.

Your dad is just as abusive as your mom. He’s not been a passive, cowardly bystander. He’s actively trying to manipulate you. NTA

NTA. Protect your child from these people. No way in hell woukd dad be picking up my child to take her anywhere. NTA. MOM is the AH. Dad is the AH fir not protecting you. If she was incapable of loving you, what makes them think she woukd love your daughter? If she loves your daughter, then it is a lie she is incapable if loving you. She chooses not to. Keep her away from your child.

NTA- do you realize you are at risk for a court battle where they try to get visitation and even custody . You absolutely have to cut them off. She doesn’t sound like she’s a person that wants to work on herself or get better. She’s dangerous and will not stop to get her way. You cannot allow access to your child. Please do this for your child and yourself. You deserve parents that would be great to you and your child. They won’t be safe or loving . You can find friends to fill this role. Please, please , please cut them off.

There isn't even a question. NTA

Your mother sounds like a dangerous person and your father is an enabler. Bad country.

Please. Give me your baby and just accept that your mom is abusive and incapable of love and I’m too. If of a coward to stand up for a child against this monster. NTA but if you give them access to this child you will be.

Just read back your subject line to yourself and you'll see that you are NTA. It would be incredibly irresponsible to let either of your parents be around your daughter, especially without supervision. If your mom was abusive to you, it wouldn't be at all surprising if she transferred her feelings to your daughter. Please, please don't ever let your father pick up your daughter. He can't be trusted. If he is having heart palpitations, he can go to the hospital.