Here’s my theory:
The wounds on the horse are from running into barbed wire fencing after getting spooked by whatever killed the dogs. There are no bite marks, and the slashes look too shallow to be from a large predator. Examining the state the dogs were left in would provide better information. Without seeing that, it could be anything from coyotes, to an extremely enraged badger(unlikely based on location,) to a bear that killed them. Mountain lions will get LOUD when fighting dogs, so if no one heard anything, I would rule that one out. I’m leaning more towards coyotes ganging up on the dogs.
Agreed. Coyotes aren't going to be able to or interested in attacking a horse like that. A cougar would have attacked from above (back/neck/face). Plus, there'd be bite marks, not just scratches.
The fence hypothesis should be easy to reject if there are none present, or accept if you find a section with some horse hair, etc.
I don’t know shit about horses or animal attack signs but my first thought was that it had run into a fence or something. Only because I’ve seen plenty of injuries like that before. On me.
This actually happened exactly this way to a horse that was on our property before we owned it. Spooked by an animal and ran through barbed wire. Ended up have to be put down because it got tangled. (The first thing we took out was barbed wire.)
People say the spook was because of a mountain Lion. Others say dogs.
My first thought was fence I almost lost a horse to barbed wire 40 years ago, he got spooked and it was awful. We were able to save him but never could be ridden again. But lived a long happy life
I was wondering about those wounds too— if it was a claw, you’d see several of them going in the same direction, parallel; if it was a tooth, you’d still have a matched pair? I like your theory.
Seconded. I've seen similar wounds on the chest of a horse that ran through a electric wire fence. Barbed wire would account for the additional wounds along sides/belly, especially if the horse got caught up trying to get over it when scared.
I thought fence rail when I saw it. We used to lease a horse for my daughter, and when they were doing construction in the neighborhood, they had to blow some ledge. It spooked a couple of horses, and they ran into the fence and ended up with a pretty deep scrape.
Running through a fence is the most likely scenario, and I've seen similar injuries when a dog ran our horse through a wooden fence. Horses are big, strong animals, and when they run in blind panic they can ruin themselves. My friend's mare even managed to impale herself when she got out of hand running barrels.
Considering that this was in northeastern Tennessee, that pretty much rules out badgers and makes a mountain lion highly unlikely (cue the "my uncle's friend saw a mountain lion in Tennessee" folks). A black bear is possible, but seems unlikely for a black bear to take on dogs AND a horse. As in all things, chances of any of the above are never zero. But it's doubtful.
My money is on coyotes. They may not have even been interested in the horse (probably weren't), but they'll definitely fight and kill dogs. That sort of ruckus would certainly put a horse to flight.
I did go over to their facebook page and watch the video she made. It shows the wounds a little better, and everything about that makes me think that horse got hurt getting away from something, not being attacked. The owner in the vid, though, seems to think that it was a predator of some sort because they have safe fencing for the horses. But I'd love to get the follow-up if they find out what actually happened.
>Considering that this was in northeastern Tennessee, that pretty much rules out badgers and makes a mountain lion highly unlikely (cue the "my uncle's friend saw a mountain lion in Tennessee" folks).
Pretty sure a few years ago a wildlife agency confirmed that the animals found on some trail cams are in fact mountain lions. Tennessee just isn't a breeding state anymore.
So not quiet what you said but I can pretend the camera is my uncle.
Edit: [yep I was remembering correctly](https://youtu.be/zZsdkYrsg3I?si=APPJfuZbDz6d_Lvy)
I thought this too. I remember a few years back (actually more than a few) there was a cougar that was tagged or something who’s home base was in Florida, but it wandered all the way up to TN/NC as part of its range.
We had a similar occurrence in South Eastern Colorado . One of our horses routinely laid down when he slept , one day we found him with wounds like that and it wound up being a badger was the culprit.
A badger? Oh ya. Badgers don't fuck around. Not sure if it could take on two dogs at once but even if it were in that fight, it wouldn't leave that fight without giving those dogs a fight for their life. Badgers are furious creatures
If I recall correctly, "Badgers? We don't need to stinkin' badgers!" Is a spoof of a line about *badges* from the movie "Treasure of the Sierra Madre".
The line about "Send down a couple of badgers!" is a paraphrase of a line from the movie "Blazing Saddles".
Anything in the mustelid family is very strong for their size and often have a nasty disposition. I'd agree that it's pretty unusual for a badger to actually kill 2 dogs and wound a horse like this, but it's not out of the question.
I had a badger attack me on horseback. First he went for the horse and once he saw me on top he kept trying to get me! My horse was fantastic he never spooked and kept turning to face the badger the claws on that animal I will never forget I had dreams of those claws for years - clawed his hooves and legs terribly even loosened a shoe . Roberto was magnificent he never balked I was terrified all I could think of if he went down I was toast but he backed slowly out of there he kept stomping his front legs and I could see the blood flowing. Once I realized we were between her and her den, we backed sideways away from the den area the. The badger trundled off towards the den- we turned on a dime and got the hell out of there. It was an embankment on the side of a tractor road on edge of field. I could hear her pups ( I think that’s what the babies are called) crying. This was not the first time he saved my life but certainly one of the most impressive. He was an old Arabian stallion and I will always miss him
They're actually pleasantly chill and curious if they don't feel threatened.
But yeah, if they feel threatened they'll murder you, steal your phone, invite your most recent contacts on a hike and then kill them too and steal their phones and do the same thing.
For sure, but they'd likely need to be goaded, cornered, or attacked by the dogs. Badgers tend to just run away if they have the opportunity.
Edit - I'm talking about UK badgers, maybe American badgers are meaner.
Get a donkey. They're super aggressive towards predators. That's what cow farmers around me do... idk if that would stop a cougar but worth checking into if it is a cougar.
Yup, donkeys are nature’s great equalizers when it comes to herd animals vs. predators.
It’s either get a donkey or get a camel, and brother, trust me, you DON’T want a camel.
Tell that to the two that died from a black bear. My principal in high-school had 3. One was mauled the other drowned itself in a pond the third however was found in a clearing with a bunch of deer just chilling. I've never heard of a black bear engaging 3 animals that are known to fight back it was wild.
3 is not quite enough to form a proper ‘herd mentality.’
We have a breeding herd of 30ish on the north side of my town. Once the farmer heard screaming commotion at night and saw that the herd of llamas were out of their shelter and stampeding in circles around a particular spot.
By the time the farmer retrieved his gun and went out there most of the heard had returned to the shelter, but a few were still in the field stomping and screaming in the dark. He tried to call them off & distract them with treats, but it was like they were in a trance or a panic. He decided to wait for neighbors to arrive before he went into the field with them to see what was going on.
When he finally got into the field, he found a nearly perfectly flat mountain lion where they had been stampeding. The llamas had spent the entire night stomping and crushing it into nothing.
There wasnt even any blood. Just fur, crushed up bone, and llama pee, barely discernible from the dirt. If he didnt wake up while it was happening, he may have never noticed anything occurred. the body was so crushed and trampled it just looked like dirt, and the llamas acted as though nothing had happened.
Camels have "pissy attitudes" towards EVERYONE. They often nip and spit at their owners. So, no, you don't want a pet camel. Riding a severely tamed one is what you want.
Nah, camels require lots of love and respect. My music teacher spent a few years teaching in the Middle East, and he said that there was a man in the village who would disrespect and beat his camels. One day, the camel bit the back of his neck and ripped his spinal cord completely out of his body.
And their spit isn’t like the normal human spit you’re imagining in your head. It is VILE. The basically projectile regurgitate stomach juice and whatever was digesting in that stomach use into your face.
Camels don’t spit so much as defensively vomit on whatever is irritating it and the smell is an absolute bitch to get out.
Man, I fuckin hate camels. Even if they are chill, which most aren't, they do *not* give a shit about their rider. Any bramble or thorny tree they come across and they will intentionally try to swipe you off their back with zero fucks given. They might be marginally directable but they will side step or lean in to passing thorns on purpose just as a fuck you to their rider. If you've ever been to Sub-Saharan Africa, you know there are some gnarly fucking thorns out there. Truly terrible creatures.
As a large 28 year old man who occasionally has to work in different farms and around them… I’ve 100% been more scared and wary of a donkey in a pasture than most Bulls.
Bull hiding in some brush laying down when I walked by and startled it (not knowing it was there) definitely gave me a top 2 near heart attack moment though, haha.
Saw a video on Reddit one time of a donkey absolutely fucking up a coyote and doing it very easily.
That's when I learned that donkeys are used a livestock bodyguards
I grew up with a cattle ranch in Oklahoma, we had two mules that were absolute shitasses for this reason. God I hated those fuckers, they’d roll me every time we’d go for a ride.
Not all donkeys are though. We had a standard donkey and she had zero concern in regards to dogs or coyotes. Standard donkeys are the bigger size ones. Not as big as mammoth but bigger than the little ones.
We had a llama who was terrific and keeping coyotes away.
Yep. My mom has 3 donkeys. We had them specifically to help gaurd the cattle. No longer have the cattle, but she still has her donkeys. Love those things. Great little property guards.
I've heard stories of donkeys ripping apart Foxes and Coyotes because they got too close to their territory.
Donkeys are the "find out" part to the phrase "fuck around and find out"
That's a great idea. My aunt did this to protect her horses and rodeo bulls from whatever was trying to attack them at night. What was weird though, is that she lives in Northern Indiana and what was trying to attack the horses was a puma. The donkey was going off one night and my cousin shines a spot light out at the pasture. We ended up loading some rifles into his truck and trying to chase this thing down like a bunch of lunatics.
What makes me believe my cousin saw a big cat was that there were other witnesses who said they saw this thing around her property as well. What really makes me believe it all is that there were at least two reported incidents in which a black Jaguar had escaped from captivity and was spotted in the area. Idk if it was the same Jaguar but I do know that one of the times, it escaped from a house that was was less than a few minutes away from my aunt's house. So I'm guessing what my cousin actually saw, was a god damn Jaguar lol.
Oh, donkeys will kill the shit out of a cougar. We have wild donkeys where I live , they’re one of two things that will make me break camp and get the fuck out. Bastards are mean as hell.
What kinds of wounds on the dogs, because honestly I’ve seen similar wounds on horses going through fencing.
Could there have been a horse dog conflict?
I agree this looks like fence injuries. Single slashes with no piercing pattern.. the mid-neck dotted tears say barb wire/fence nail. I’d say that the horse was spooked into fencing to escape. TBH you might get more answers from the dog’s injuries on this.
Yeah I was also thinking that. Unless I'm missing seeing wounds on the cellphone vid it looks like big and pretty evenly spaced lines on the horse like from a fence.
And I'm not really inclined to just take their word for it that "my dogs would never attack a horse" so without seeing dogs wounds or how they died it's hard to just rule that out
[Video of Horse and Injuries](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0vxMyakHBRSWjsQQthtQHAmM2zeJrfjpFZPjLVnNUnD4vMkRDqWCPDsN7kBDB1f8Tl&id=100063864442627&mibextid=ZbWKwL)
I would think a large cat would go for the base of the skull to puncture the spinal cord. Large canids go for the throat and tear skin/tissue. I’m thinking this is a bear that swiped at the horse.
Canids, like wolves, generally go for the hind first. They will go for the throat, but only after they have worn the animal to the extent it can no longer avoid or really fight back.
Cougars are stealth predators. They like to do a lightning ambush from above. I don't see a cougar strolling up to a horse and 2 dogs in a field and just laying into all of them, that's too loud and messy for a cat. And yeah, they go for the base of the skull. Cougars are solo hunters, so they need a clean, fast kill with minimum odds of themselves getting hurt. I suppose it could be a young inexperienced cat, or a starving one. But attacks near humans typically happen in barren country during a drought, when prey is scarce. Much more likely this was something else.
I do not see any evidence of predation. What I do see are individual abrasion lacerations, not clean claw or teeth lacerations. If it was claws or teeth, there would be bite marks or parallel lacerations on her rear and throat. Likely it was from a fence post, or nail on the barn. Looks like she struggled, maybe got caught on something like a wire fence and was pressed against something.
Could be the horse panicked & ran into a fence because of whatever killed the dogs. They may have stepped in & that's how come this is *all* the horse copped. Bad situ for everyone =(
No tracks anywhere? Plenty of rain lately in the Midwest maybe the barn and grounds have a few wet areas that can be checked. Or even really sandy or dusty spots. I’d think a cat would be going for a throat bite and I’m not seeing that myself. I’m betting bear or wolf. Sucks about the dogs tho I’d be keeping a firearm handy.
Shouldn’t be any cougars in that area. I’ve got several bear stories though from that east TN area including some aggressive ones. I saw more bears there than anywhere in the country. Some large 300lb+. That would be my guess.
Mn didn't have any cougars the last 5 years even though people posted pictures of them.. Dnr just announced we have cougars. Just cause we don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there. Although I would think the wounds would be much worse from a cougar.
I also highly doubt a cougar would risk going after a horse and 2 dogs. On the other hand last time I was in Durango, CO a few years ago, a lady got killed by a black bear that attacked her with her 2 dogs.
Edit: I also agree that there’s the possibility of cougars being in some states on the east coast, but just haven’t heard of any sightings from my time in TN.
I'm in middle TN, and although there aren't supposed to be cougars here, folk in my area catch them on trail cams all the time. I wouldn't rule them out because of proximity.
I am sometimes suspicious of people who say they caught them on camera without seeing it, as I’ve seen dogs and coyotes and bobcats and house cats called cougars
Collaring cougars for an ongoing research project in BC, Canada. We have documented both female and male cougars taking down feral horses in our study area, and across all age classes. Our collared males primarily predate moose and feral horse.
I know a thoroughbred here in BC with a big chunk missing in her necks from a cougar attack. They’re drawn to the fleeing movement even if they didn’t set out to stalk them, a problem shared by our local cyclists too.
Maybe less likely in a place where horses aren’t their normal prey, but in some places, [female cougars preferentially prey on horses](https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jwmg.22087). That probably isn’t typical, but cougar punch above their weight class more than other big cats.
Not sure if these wounds look like cougar wounds, though, I’m no expert
In TN My guess would be bear or bobcat. Bobcat seems less likely to attack a horse, I'd think. I'd put money on a bear.
Weasels can be pretty aggressive and ballsy too, but I'm not sure if you have a big enough weasel like a badger in TN. Sometimes those can just be nasty and vicious for no reason reason. Mountain Lions are probably not likely, but there have been reports of them on occasion.
Get a donkey or a LGD.
Looks like a barbed wire fence injury. If you have this type of fencing .... get rid of it ASAP. Not horse friendly.
If it's a predator, get a donkey. Donkey is rancher code for "field Ninja". They are fearless and will beat the shit out of anything in their path that they see as a trespasser.
Dogs were prolly killed by a mountain lion or larger predator, the horses wounds look to be made in unison strikes parallel to each other and no inconsistency that would indicate claws, so my assumption is it tried running and hit a fence with barbed wire or the like.
Those are impact scratches from the animal trying to run through something like a fence or dense vegetation.
You can look up images of cougar or bear damage on a horse to compare. Generally, horses run away and the predator chases, causing wounds to accumulate on the back and rear. Here the injuries are on the front and face, as though the horse was charging into whatever did the damage.
A decent game warden can tell you what got the dogs, but it probably didnt catch the horse and the damage you are seeing is from its escape.
Park Ranger here. As others have said, the idea of the horse running into barbed wire makes the most sense, due to the way the cuts look and the direction they're going as well. The predator that killed the dogs would be best determined by actually knowing how the dogs looked after being killed. Without knowing how the dogs were killed, I would say based on the time of year and that location in TN though, likely black bear mama defending cubs. Mountain lion sightings are still extremely rare here, and usually the simplest explanation is the most realistic.
Quite possibly. Maybe whatever killed the canine spooked the horse into the fence. I've only seen wooden fence boards, but horses are notorious for finding ways to harm themselves.
The spacing is spot on for fence, and the tears on the face are similar to when my mustang went through not over the barbed wire fence in my back yard.
It’s possible whatever killed the dogs scared the horse and the horse hurt itself on a fence or something. So I think examining the dogs will be more helpful. A vet can identify tooth marks on the dogs.
Is there a wire fence? Or plants with thorns?
Or building w exposed nails? The reason I say this is because scratches from an animal generally go top to bottom.
It doesn’t look like animal scratches to me.
Fence. If something was around to attack the dogs, my guess is the horse went bolting and hit fence, barn, thicket, trees, something else to cause those. A predator is going to make deeper punctures and scrapes.
I agree with the fencing comments. Horse looks like it bolted right into fencing and branches. Scratches near eye are more in line with blunted/broken branches, I've had cyclops ponies from that very thing.
There are so many level headed correct comments here. Nothing willing to attack a horse. This is a matter of fencing. Claws are meant to penetrate and shred. These are not predatory wounds. Nothing lines up with being penetrated and pulling away based on reaction.
Barbed wire fence. I've seen that before on cows from an old downed fence tangled in some brush. Curious animal snooping for something tasty gets cut up.
This was from running into a fence because a similar injury occurred with my favorite barrel horse. A bear spooked him.and he ran into the fence in a panic.
Fence. Coyotes/any other larger predator won’t be that shallow if it was genuine, and horse most likely got spooked from said predator that actually kiled the other two animals
As a born and raised lifelong horse person with way too many years of experience. These are definitely barbed wire wounds....now to find out WHY your horse willing wounded itself trying to get away from whatever....place trail cams. Also, some fura-zone salve would heal those up with no scar.
I believe you can find it on Amazon as well.
Link here:[Fura-zone]
(https://www.neogen.com/categories/animal-health/fura-zone/)
Best of luck!
Without seeing wounds that killed dogs I'm not going to rule out the dogs not going after a horse or even the dogs like sleeping in field and horse accidently stepping on top of them and freaking out and the horse kicking them then spooking into a fence. Many of the marks look pretty uniform in distance between them and very long and straight like getting caught in barbed wire.
The other most likely option to me would be a bear getting dogs and spooking horse into fence. It'd be very weird to me that a bear or mountain lion attacking a horse would leave no apparent puncture wounds from bites, no deeper wounds, and the wounds wouldn't be more in a downward direction as the tried pulling it down
I know one thing. It definitely was not a badger and it's insane so many people kinda latched onto that thread
You'd be better off calling local sources to get an answer, like a vet that caters to farm animals. As you can see, reddit is full of "answers" but you need answers.
Here’s my theory: The wounds on the horse are from running into barbed wire fencing after getting spooked by whatever killed the dogs. There are no bite marks, and the slashes look too shallow to be from a large predator. Examining the state the dogs were left in would provide better information. Without seeing that, it could be anything from coyotes, to an extremely enraged badger(unlikely based on location,) to a bear that killed them. Mountain lions will get LOUD when fighting dogs, so if no one heard anything, I would rule that one out. I’m leaning more towards coyotes ganging up on the dogs.
Agreed. Coyotes aren't going to be able to or interested in attacking a horse like that. A cougar would have attacked from above (back/neck/face). Plus, there'd be bite marks, not just scratches. The fence hypothesis should be easy to reject if there are none present, or accept if you find a section with some horse hair, etc.
Yeah I saw the first photo and immediately thought that it looked like a fence injury
Yeah claw marks would be 3-4 in close proximity
I don’t know shit about horses or animal attack signs but my first thought was that it had run into a fence or something. Only because I’ve seen plenty of injuries like that before. On me.
🤣 You should try to stop drunkenly running into fences. We care about you.
I really should. Thank you for caring.
I mean, if they were being chased by coyotes or cougars...or cops, then dashing over/under a barbed wire fence or two is kinda par for the course, no?
This actually happened exactly this way to a horse that was on our property before we owned it. Spooked by an animal and ran through barbed wire. Ended up have to be put down because it got tangled. (The first thing we took out was barbed wire.) People say the spook was because of a mountain Lion. Others say dogs.
My first thought was fence I almost lost a horse to barbed wire 40 years ago, he got spooked and it was awful. We were able to save him but never could be ridden again. But lived a long happy life
I was wondering about those wounds too— if it was a claw, you’d see several of them going in the same direction, parallel; if it was a tooth, you’d still have a matched pair? I like your theory.
Happy cake Day! 🍰
Happy cake day! 😊✨
Seconded. I've seen similar wounds on the chest of a horse that ran through a electric wire fence. Barbed wire would account for the additional wounds along sides/belly, especially if the horse got caught up trying to get over it when scared.
I thought fence rail when I saw it. We used to lease a horse for my daughter, and when they were doing construction in the neighborhood, they had to blow some ledge. It spooked a couple of horses, and they ran into the fence and ended up with a pretty deep scrape.
Thank you
Running through a fence is the most likely scenario, and I've seen similar injuries when a dog ran our horse through a wooden fence. Horses are big, strong animals, and when they run in blind panic they can ruin themselves. My friend's mare even managed to impale herself when she got out of hand running barrels. Considering that this was in northeastern Tennessee, that pretty much rules out badgers and makes a mountain lion highly unlikely (cue the "my uncle's friend saw a mountain lion in Tennessee" folks). A black bear is possible, but seems unlikely for a black bear to take on dogs AND a horse. As in all things, chances of any of the above are never zero. But it's doubtful. My money is on coyotes. They may not have even been interested in the horse (probably weren't), but they'll definitely fight and kill dogs. That sort of ruckus would certainly put a horse to flight. I did go over to their facebook page and watch the video she made. It shows the wounds a little better, and everything about that makes me think that horse got hurt getting away from something, not being attacked. The owner in the vid, though, seems to think that it was a predator of some sort because they have safe fencing for the horses. But I'd love to get the follow-up if they find out what actually happened.
>Considering that this was in northeastern Tennessee, that pretty much rules out badgers and makes a mountain lion highly unlikely (cue the "my uncle's friend saw a mountain lion in Tennessee" folks). Pretty sure a few years ago a wildlife agency confirmed that the animals found on some trail cams are in fact mountain lions. Tennessee just isn't a breeding state anymore. So not quiet what you said but I can pretend the camera is my uncle. Edit: [yep I was remembering correctly](https://youtu.be/zZsdkYrsg3I?si=APPJfuZbDz6d_Lvy)
I thought this too. I remember a few years back (actually more than a few) there was a cougar that was tagged or something who’s home base was in Florida, but it wandered all the way up to TN/NC as part of its range.
I like your conjecture
Yes came here to say this, barbed wire not animal attack.
Poor guy looks like he needs a hug and another to make sure.
Yeah, i thought the same, maybe a couple animal crackers too🥹
Some watermelon slices for sure
Oh yeah, perfect time of year for watermelon 😊😊
Peppermint. A horse ripped has my pocket off to get to some peppermints
I could use some human crackers
Fence.
We had a similar occurrence in South Eastern Colorado . One of our horses routinely laid down when he slept , one day we found him with wounds like that and it wound up being a badger was the culprit.
I don’t think a badger could kill two dogs, though? Could it?
A badger? Oh ya. Badgers don't fuck around. Not sure if it could take on two dogs at once but even if it were in that fight, it wouldn't leave that fight without giving those dogs a fight for their life. Badgers are furious creatures
No badgers in TN.
Badgers? We don't need no stinking badgers...
Horses?! We can't afford to lose no horses you dummy! Send over a couple of badgers.
Pretty sure thats not how that goes. 😜
Darn near lost me a 400 dollar handcart.
Are you quoting the classic Weird Al flick “UHF”?
If I recall correctly, "Badgers? We don't need to stinkin' badgers!" Is a spoof of a line about *badges* from the movie "Treasure of the Sierra Madre". The line about "Send down a couple of badgers!" is a paraphrase of a line from the movie "Blazing Saddles".
They really hate it when you do this [shakes and farm]. Oh look, they're really mad now!
DUDE! I just watched UHF this week!
Now Wisconsin…😉
Badgers don’t care. They are absolute savages.
It looks like he’s getting religion
Wave ‘em like you just don’t care
Why is this upvoted? There are no badgers where OP is discussing.
Anything in the mustelid family is very strong for their size and often have a nasty disposition. I'd agree that it's pretty unusual for a badger to actually kill 2 dogs and wound a horse like this, but it's not out of the question.
I had a badger attack me on horseback. First he went for the horse and once he saw me on top he kept trying to get me! My horse was fantastic he never spooked and kept turning to face the badger the claws on that animal I will never forget I had dreams of those claws for years - clawed his hooves and legs terribly even loosened a shoe . Roberto was magnificent he never balked I was terrified all I could think of if he went down I was toast but he backed slowly out of there he kept stomping his front legs and I could see the blood flowing. Once I realized we were between her and her den, we backed sideways away from the den area the. The badger trundled off towards the den- we turned on a dime and got the hell out of there. It was an embankment on the side of a tractor road on edge of field. I could hear her pups ( I think that’s what the babies are called) crying. This was not the first time he saved my life but certainly one of the most impressive. He was an old Arabian stallion and I will always miss him
An American badger isn't going to kill a dog unless it was something small and it's not going to go out of its way to do so either.
Ummm badgers are notoriously ruthless mother fuckers that I'd personally never wanna FAFO.
They're actually pleasantly chill and curious if they don't feel threatened. But yeah, if they feel threatened they'll murder you, steal your phone, invite your most recent contacts on a hike and then kill them too and steal their phones and do the same thing.
I think unless the 2 dogs fought coordinated as a pack, yes certainly. Badgers are just slightly less enraged killers than Wolverines.
But they don’t attack like this. The fear mongering in this thread is directly why so many species have been exterminated.
Yeah, mustelids are scrappy but clever. Most animals are going to be immediately routed by dogs, them boys are designed for intimidation.
A beaver can kill two dogs. A badger certainly can.
For sure, but they'd likely need to be goaded, cornered, or attacked by the dogs. Badgers tend to just run away if they have the opportunity. Edit - I'm talking about UK badgers, maybe American badgers are meaner.
No worries. Montana badgers tend to be pretty shy. Wolverines are as well. Not if they are spooked or startled though. It’s all about circumstances.
Get a donkey. They're super aggressive towards predators. That's what cow farmers around me do... idk if that would stop a cougar but worth checking into if it is a cougar.
Yup, donkeys are nature’s great equalizers when it comes to herd animals vs. predators. It’s either get a donkey or get a camel, and brother, trust me, you DON’T want a camel.
Llamas are another good choice.
Tell that to the two that died from a black bear. My principal in high-school had 3. One was mauled the other drowned itself in a pond the third however was found in a clearing with a bunch of deer just chilling. I've never heard of a black bear engaging 3 animals that are known to fight back it was wild.
3 is not quite enough to form a proper ‘herd mentality.’ We have a breeding herd of 30ish on the north side of my town. Once the farmer heard screaming commotion at night and saw that the herd of llamas were out of their shelter and stampeding in circles around a particular spot. By the time the farmer retrieved his gun and went out there most of the heard had returned to the shelter, but a few were still in the field stomping and screaming in the dark. He tried to call them off & distract them with treats, but it was like they were in a trance or a panic. He decided to wait for neighbors to arrive before he went into the field with them to see what was going on. When he finally got into the field, he found a nearly perfectly flat mountain lion where they had been stampeding. The llamas had spent the entire night stomping and crushing it into nothing. There wasnt even any blood. Just fur, crushed up bone, and llama pee, barely discernible from the dirt. If he didnt wake up while it was happening, he may have never noticed anything occurred. the body was so crushed and trampled it just looked like dirt, and the llamas acted as though nothing had happened.
Ahh that explains it tbh and why the last one found safety with a herd of deer. Still fucking wacky a "black" bear decided to attack 3 llamas lol.
Um,...what's wrong with owning a camel?
Camels have "pissy attitudes" towards EVERYONE. They often nip and spit at their owners. So, no, you don't want a pet camel. Riding a severely tamed one is what you want.
Severely tamed sounds like that camel was beaten into listening.
Petted, fed, and loved into utter and complete submission. (At least that’s what I envision, I will accept no other explanation)
Beaten into submission with the rod of love
Wait... no! Get away from that camel!
You sick fuck
Nah, camels require lots of love and respect. My music teacher spent a few years teaching in the Middle East, and he said that there was a man in the village who would disrespect and beat his camels. One day, the camel bit the back of his neck and ripped his spinal cord completely out of his body.
And just slurped it up like a noodle.
Somehow that does not surprise me. Camels are huge and don’t take shit from us humans.
And their spit isn’t like the normal human spit you’re imagining in your head. It is VILE. The basically projectile regurgitate stomach juice and whatever was digesting in that stomach use into your face. Camels don’t spit so much as defensively vomit on whatever is irritating it and the smell is an absolute bitch to get out.
Oh, man! That sounds _ROUGH_ !
Llamas are just little camels. They’re good for predator deterrence as well.
And alpacas are little llamas. They’re also good for herd/flock defence.
Man, I fuckin hate camels. Even if they are chill, which most aren't, they do *not* give a shit about their rider. Any bramble or thorny tree they come across and they will intentionally try to swipe you off their back with zero fucks given. They might be marginally directable but they will side step or lean in to passing thorns on purpose just as a fuck you to their rider. If you've ever been to Sub-Saharan Africa, you know there are some gnarly fucking thorns out there. Truly terrible creatures.
Can confirm, my brother has cows. Donkeys are rowdy as fuck.
Can confirm, a donkey chased me down and bit my ass when I was 10
My dog had a bare spot on each side of her tail from a donkey bite and she never got that hair back
As a large 28 year old man who occasionally has to work in different farms and around them… I’ve 100% been more scared and wary of a donkey in a pasture than most Bulls. Bull hiding in some brush laying down when I walked by and startled it (not knowing it was there) definitely gave me a top 2 near heart attack moment though, haha.
He sounds like an ass
the ass bit the ass
So ass to ass?
Donkeys are hell on coyotes. The farmers around me have one or two donkeys in the fields with thier cows too.
Saw a video on Reddit one time of a donkey absolutely fucking up a coyote and doing it very easily. That's when I learned that donkeys are used a livestock bodyguards
I just found out with this post
I used to check rodent traps on a cow farm with donkeys. They are indeed rowdy as fuck.
Most of the ranchers I've seen here in TX have one with the herd. A donkey will fuck a coyote up.
I grew up with a cattle ranch in Oklahoma, we had two mules that were absolute shitasses for this reason. God I hated those fuckers, they’d roll me every time we’d go for a ride.
A mule will kick the SHIT out of a cougar, wouldn’t be surprised if a donkey tries to either
Not all donkeys are though. We had a standard donkey and she had zero concern in regards to dogs or coyotes. Standard donkeys are the bigger size ones. Not as big as mammoth but bigger than the little ones. We had a llama who was terrific and keeping coyotes away.
Yep. My mom has 3 donkeys. We had them specifically to help gaurd the cattle. No longer have the cattle, but she still has her donkeys. Love those things. Great little property guards.
I've heard stories of donkeys ripping apart Foxes and Coyotes because they got too close to their territory. Donkeys are the "find out" part to the phrase "fuck around and find out"
Yup. My ex had a donkey for his cows. The donkey was awesome. I named him Albert, he looked like an Albert
That's a great idea. My aunt did this to protect her horses and rodeo bulls from whatever was trying to attack them at night. What was weird though, is that she lives in Northern Indiana and what was trying to attack the horses was a puma. The donkey was going off one night and my cousin shines a spot light out at the pasture. We ended up loading some rifles into his truck and trying to chase this thing down like a bunch of lunatics. What makes me believe my cousin saw a big cat was that there were other witnesses who said they saw this thing around her property as well. What really makes me believe it all is that there were at least two reported incidents in which a black Jaguar had escaped from captivity and was spotted in the area. Idk if it was the same Jaguar but I do know that one of the times, it escaped from a house that was was less than a few minutes away from my aunt's house. So I'm guessing what my cousin actually saw, was a god damn Jaguar lol.
Donkeys are for small predators like coyotes or fox. They will not deter a bear or mountain lion.
Oh, donkeys will kill the shit out of a cougar. We have wild donkeys where I live , they’re one of two things that will make me break camp and get the fuck out. Bastards are mean as hell.
What kinds of wounds on the dogs, because honestly I’ve seen similar wounds on horses going through fencing. Could there have been a horse dog conflict?
I agree this looks like fence injuries. Single slashes with no piercing pattern.. the mid-neck dotted tears say barb wire/fence nail. I’d say that the horse was spooked into fencing to escape. TBH you might get more answers from the dog’s injuries on this.
Yeah I was also thinking that. Unless I'm missing seeing wounds on the cellphone vid it looks like big and pretty evenly spaced lines on the horse like from a fence. And I'm not really inclined to just take their word for it that "my dogs would never attack a horse" so without seeing dogs wounds or how they died it's hard to just rule that out
[Video of horse and the owner talking. ](https://fb.watch/t327qAZoBi/) She didn't talk about injuries in video.
The owner and the horse talking? To each other?
LOL
How else do you suggest we get more info? Clearly the dogs aren't talking any more!
Fence injuries
Came to same same thing. Looks more like a fence injury, pics of the dogs would be more useful.
I’m thinking whatever happened to the dogs the horse was fleeing from and ran into the fence. But that’s just my guess
This makes sense to me as these marks look like they’re from barbed wire.
[Video of Horse and Injuries](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0vxMyakHBRSWjsQQthtQHAmM2zeJrfjpFZPjLVnNUnD4vMkRDqWCPDsN7kBDB1f8Tl&id=100063864442627&mibextid=ZbWKwL)
📸 📸 The video is here. 📷📷
This is in Tennessee. It’s mostly likely a bear
Any barbed wire around?
I would think a large cat would go for the base of the skull to puncture the spinal cord. Large canids go for the throat and tear skin/tissue. I’m thinking this is a bear that swiped at the horse.
They either go for the face, neck, or legs. But a cat wouldn't come up under a horse, that's too dangerous for them. They come from above
Good points.
Black bear. No badgers in Tennessee. How big were the dogs?
Canids, like wolves, generally go for the hind first. They will go for the throat, but only after they have worn the animal to the extent it can no longer avoid or really fight back.
Cougars are stealth predators. They like to do a lightning ambush from above. I don't see a cougar strolling up to a horse and 2 dogs in a field and just laying into all of them, that's too loud and messy for a cat. And yeah, they go for the base of the skull. Cougars are solo hunters, so they need a clean, fast kill with minimum odds of themselves getting hurt. I suppose it could be a young inexperienced cat, or a starving one. But attacks near humans typically happen in barren country during a drought, when prey is scarce. Much more likely this was something else.
I do not see any evidence of predation. What I do see are individual abrasion lacerations, not clean claw or teeth lacerations. If it was claws or teeth, there would be bite marks or parallel lacerations on her rear and throat. Likely it was from a fence post, or nail on the barn. Looks like she struggled, maybe got caught on something like a wire fence and was pressed against something.
Barbed wire?
Yes indeed. I'm a lifetime horseman,and I've seen this more than once.
I thought it looked like branches or wire, but what killed the dogs?
Could be the horse panicked & ran into a fence because of whatever killed the dogs. They may have stepped in & that's how come this is *all* the horse copped. Bad situ for everyone =(
Other dogs
yeah that was my first thought, seen a lot of injuries like this from barbed wire. doesn't fit with the dogs being killed tho
Go n check your fences. Any of them barbed .?
Wire Fence
No tracks anywhere? Plenty of rain lately in the Midwest maybe the barn and grounds have a few wet areas that can be checked. Or even really sandy or dusty spots. I’d think a cat would be going for a throat bite and I’m not seeing that myself. I’m betting bear or wolf. Sucks about the dogs tho I’d be keeping a firearm handy.
Probably wasn’t a wolf due to the lack of punctures or bite marks. Wolves also aren’t found in Tennessee IIRC.
Correct, no wolves in TN. Wild dogs or coyote would be more likely in TN.
The owner didn't say if there were tracks or not. I'll update if I see that.
Trail Cam is a good investment
They stated in the video that they are putting cams up. I'll update if they see anything. 😁
Get a donkey. A donkey can and will kill coyotes and anything that is a threat to the pasture.
Looks like fencing to me, but mayhap the horse ran into it trying to escape?
I must have quickly replied to the wrong post. 🤦🏻♀️ I agree that is the most likely answer above. I will update post as soon as I hear anything else.
Shouldn’t be any cougars in that area. I’ve got several bear stories though from that east TN area including some aggressive ones. I saw more bears there than anywhere in the country. Some large 300lb+. That would be my guess.
Mn didn't have any cougars the last 5 years even though people posted pictures of them.. Dnr just announced we have cougars. Just cause we don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there. Although I would think the wounds would be much worse from a cougar.
I also highly doubt a cougar would risk going after a horse and 2 dogs. On the other hand last time I was in Durango, CO a few years ago, a lady got killed by a black bear that attacked her with her 2 dogs. Edit: I also agree that there’s the possibility of cougars being in some states on the east coast, but just haven’t heard of any sightings from my time in TN.
I'm in middle TN, and although there aren't supposed to be cougars here, folk in my area catch them on trail cams all the time. I wouldn't rule them out because of proximity.
I am sometimes suspicious of people who say they caught them on camera without seeing it, as I’ve seen dogs and coyotes and bobcats and house cats called cougars
Horse is a big target for a male cougar that go 150 pounds
Collaring cougars for an ongoing research project in BC, Canada. We have documented both female and male cougars taking down feral horses in our study area, and across all age classes. Our collared males primarily predate moose and feral horse.
I know a thoroughbred here in BC with a big chunk missing in her necks from a cougar attack. They’re drawn to the fleeing movement even if they didn’t set out to stalk them, a problem shared by our local cyclists too.
Cougars will absolutely go after animals much larger than themselves
Maybe less likely in a place where horses aren’t their normal prey, but in some places, [female cougars preferentially prey on horses](https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jwmg.22087). That probably isn’t typical, but cougar punch above their weight class more than other big cats. Not sure if these wounds look like cougar wounds, though, I’m no expert
Bear. Just with the angle
In TN My guess would be bear or bobcat. Bobcat seems less likely to attack a horse, I'd think. I'd put money on a bear. Weasels can be pretty aggressive and ballsy too, but I'm not sure if you have a big enough weasel like a badger in TN. Sometimes those can just be nasty and vicious for no reason reason. Mountain Lions are probably not likely, but there have been reports of them on occasion. Get a donkey or a LGD.
Bro this is making me sad as fuck before bed. Bless those pups and our poor horse friend.
Am I crazy thinking the cuts aren't close enough to be an animal? Looks like the horse was rubbing against something sharp.
Looks like a barbed wire fence injury. If you have this type of fencing .... get rid of it ASAP. Not horse friendly. If it's a predator, get a donkey. Donkey is rancher code for "field Ninja". They are fearless and will beat the shit out of anything in their path that they see as a trespasser.
Dogs were prolly killed by a mountain lion or larger predator, the horses wounds look to be made in unison strikes parallel to each other and no inconsistency that would indicate claws, so my assumption is it tried running and hit a fence with barbed wire or the like.
What did the game warden and vet say?
Those are impact scratches from the animal trying to run through something like a fence or dense vegetation. You can look up images of cougar or bear damage on a horse to compare. Generally, horses run away and the predator chases, causing wounds to accumulate on the back and rear. Here the injuries are on the front and face, as though the horse was charging into whatever did the damage. A decent game warden can tell you what got the dogs, but it probably didnt catch the horse and the damage you are seeing is from its escape.
Park Ranger here. As others have said, the idea of the horse running into barbed wire makes the most sense, due to the way the cuts look and the direction they're going as well. The predator that killed the dogs would be best determined by actually knowing how the dogs looked after being killed. Without knowing how the dogs were killed, I would say based on the time of year and that location in TN though, likely black bear mama defending cubs. Mountain lion sightings are still extremely rare here, and usually the simplest explanation is the most realistic.
Dogs might have been killed by feral hog boar. Horse probably barbed wire. (Evenly spaced, single cut. Not claws)
Not to spoil the fun, but these look a bit like barbed wire fence to me: linear, shallowness and placement. (Coming from below)
What kind of fence do they have?
Looks like barbed wire to me. Badger, really?
Looks like what a barbed wire fence would do if the horse I presume ran into it inadvertently.
Quite possibly. Maybe whatever killed the canine spooked the horse into the fence. I've only seen wooden fence boards, but horses are notorious for finding ways to harm themselves.
The spacing is spot on for fence, and the tears on the face are similar to when my mustang went through not over the barbed wire fence in my back yard.
It’s possible whatever killed the dogs scared the horse and the horse hurt itself on a fence or something. So I think examining the dogs will be more helpful. A vet can identify tooth marks on the dogs.
My heart goes out to you, your puppies & your horse ❤️
Those wounds look like a horse I had that ran through a fence during a storm
Sure looks like fence, but that doesn’t mean a predatory wasn’t chasing baby toward/through the fence.
Is there a wire fence? Or plants with thorns? Or building w exposed nails? The reason I say this is because scratches from an animal generally go top to bottom. It doesn’t look like animal scratches to me.
What kind of fences do you have on your property? Looks like he tangled with one on an escape attempt.
Fence. If something was around to attack the dogs, my guess is the horse went bolting and hit fence, barn, thicket, trees, something else to cause those. A predator is going to make deeper punctures and scrapes.
The injuries are horizontal which suggests a fence or nails. Not an animal.
I agree with the fencing comments. Horse looks like it bolted right into fencing and branches. Scratches near eye are more in line with blunted/broken branches, I've had cyclops ponies from that very thing.
It looks like a fencing injury to me. The poor baby must've been running from whatever hurt the dogs and got tangled in a fence
There are so many level headed correct comments here. Nothing willing to attack a horse. This is a matter of fencing. Claws are meant to penetrate and shred. These are not predatory wounds. Nothing lines up with being penetrated and pulling away based on reaction.
Barbed wire fence. I've seen that before on cows from an old downed fence tangled in some brush. Curious animal snooping for something tasty gets cut up.
This was from running into a fence because a similar injury occurred with my favorite barrel horse. A bear spooked him.and he ran into the fence in a panic.
Fence. Coyotes/any other larger predator won’t be that shallow if it was genuine, and horse most likely got spooked from said predator that actually kiled the other two animals
Wire caused that
As a born and raised lifelong horse person with way too many years of experience. These are definitely barbed wire wounds....now to find out WHY your horse willing wounded itself trying to get away from whatever....place trail cams. Also, some fura-zone salve would heal those up with no scar. I believe you can find it on Amazon as well. Link here:[Fura-zone] (https://www.neogen.com/categories/animal-health/fura-zone/) Best of luck!
Without seeing wounds that killed dogs I'm not going to rule out the dogs not going after a horse or even the dogs like sleeping in field and horse accidently stepping on top of them and freaking out and the horse kicking them then spooking into a fence. Many of the marks look pretty uniform in distance between them and very long and straight like getting caught in barbed wire. The other most likely option to me would be a bear getting dogs and spooking horse into fence. It'd be very weird to me that a bear or mountain lion attacking a horse would leave no apparent puncture wounds from bites, no deeper wounds, and the wounds wouldn't be more in a downward direction as the tried pulling it down I know one thing. It definitely was not a badger and it's insane so many people kinda latched onto that thread
You'd be better off calling local sources to get an answer, like a vet that caters to farm animals. As you can see, reddit is full of "answers" but you need answers.
That horse ran into a barbwire fence
Barbed wire
What type of injuries did the dogs have?
Fence. Go walk the Fence line and look for areas that are damaged. They'll rub their faces against it too.
Bobcat is only native Tennessee cat, dont think it gonna take on 2 big dogs
We had a horse get foot caught in bobbed-wire fence and almost cut hoof off. We had to take him to Auburn for surgery.
Might have been running from a predator, but those are fence marks
Wires, Maybe wired fence.
The fence
The predator is a barbed wire fence.
Something killed the dogs and the horse ran into a fence.
I think it’s a horse. Not sure it’s a predator though…
I think your horse needs a guard donkey.
Cuts are all the same directionsuggesting they happened at the same time. More than likely fence or other fixed structure. Spooked.
Looks like barbed wire to me. Claw marks would be closer together. Probably leaning over the fence to eat grass.
Barbed wire fence is my guess. Doesn't mean a predator wasn't after the horse.