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Didn't Elliott say that the creators were extremely supportive of him coming out??
Like I vaguely remember some posts on the umbrella academy subreddit saying that.
Yep. [Lis Angeles Times](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2022-06-22/elliot-page-umbrella-academy-trans-character-viktor-hargreeves)
He even said Blackman was supportive. But, it's also a work environment, so I doubt Blackman was directly transphobic to Elliot.
Maybe that was all a marketing tactic? Too make the left watch the show?
Theory time!!!
I think Elliott knew abt Steve being an asshole but the marketing department told him to go out and laud Steve as an open minded guy to get views from the progressives.
But Now that many PPL are cmng forward with their accusations they have no choice but to take action against him.
You're very probably right about Elliot knowing. It's standard for the entertainment industry to shield a$$holes like Blackman. It's not conspiracy if it's true.
The Predator (2018) had a rapist in their set
When actress Olivia Munn pointed it out, her entire career was eviscerated
Edit: disregard that, apparently she had a child and also suffered from some type of cancer, so she decided to just take care of her child
Is that why she disappeared??? She was one of my earliest girl crushes and I wondered why she fell off. I thought it was just because she married a celeb and left the public life a bit but omg, the truth is way sadder. Ugh
Said rapist was a producer if I recall correctly so...
Edit: I take back what I said, the comment below this one perfectly explains what happened to Olivia
Unless there was more than one, the guy in question was an actor who only had one scene in the movie (with Munn) and she requested that it be cut from the movie. Which apparently it was.
I also don't really think there has been some conspiracy to blacklist her. She continued working in projects after The Predator. She had previously accused Brett Ratner of sexual harassment in 2017, but still got the role in The Predator and a bunch of other stuff.
The reality is, Olivia had a child in 2021 and I'm sure she wanted to take time out for that. Then she was diagnosed with an aggressive form of breast cancer in 2023, which has required 4 surgeries, including a double mastectomy. So I'm going to guess that giving birth and trying to raise a small child while having cancer, tons of major surgery and dealing with recovery/treatments has more to do with her leaving the public eye.
In my experience, almost every single time I have seen people claiming some actor has been blacklisted due to a conspiracy, when I look them up they just have a ton of crazy stuff happening in their personal life that put their career on hold.
I mean, it CAN be a conspiracy and true. Just because most conspiracy theories are bullsit, doesn't mean there aren't real conspiracies, like this one, out there
Elliott figured out he was trans and wouldn't experience gender dysphoria for the sake of the show. The show writers did the right thing and adapted to his needs. Leftists don't watch tv shows to jizz their pants seeing inclusion.
People on the right however..... well lets just say The New Norm, Mr. Birchum, and Lady Ballers aren't well-crafted stories with lots of adoring fans
> Leftists don't watch tv shows to jizz their pants seeing inclusion
Regressives love projecting with shit like this. Just cause they watch garbage to signalis their allegiance doesn't mean others do too
I should add that liberals, aka make-believe progressives, do actually do this. However seeing as they vote for the Democratic party, it's safe to say they are center-right in many of their beliefs anyway.
Also possible this didn’t happen. Why do people see a random news article with no idea what kind of publication wrote it and just assume it’s true?
(Not the LA Times article, the one screenshotted in the post)
As a nonbinery trans person, if I was the show runner I would probably reply the same way. Not in an in supportive way but in a “how the fuck are we going to do this?” way.
Yeah I was thinking that sounds like someone just being informed of a big change of plans in the storyline they have planned, not necessarily transphobic.
Yeah, I want a bit more context here.
As someone who works to tight deadlines, I often express this sentiment - not because I'm opposed to the request but because I'd prefer it to be made at an earlier stage of the process so i don't have to rewrite a bunch of stuff I'd thought we were all good on.
Bonus points if it means I have to resubmit for approvals (which in my world always takes far longer than it should)
Not saying dude is/n't transphobic, just that I can also see other possibilities.
Have you seen the show? I only watched the first season but they're time travelling and shit. If you can do that, changing genders is pretty easy to explain.
As far as I remember it was done pretty tastefully, like how I would assume a person transitioning would be in real life. All of them accepted it and then in the season never misgender him.
Which was pretty sweet.
I really like that, at least on Netflix, they updated the previous seasons to put his chosen name in the credits! It was a very considerate thing to do that I think a lot of people wouldn't think is worth the effort.
But yeah, as someone who's had family come out as trans, it was pretty much like, "yeah, ok, cool! Glad you're discovering yourself, and we love and support you." And then that was it. Although I also made a joke about how now I can't brag about her defying gender norms (she likes knitting, which is unusual for men, but now I know she's not one lol). From a supportive family perspective, I thought it was well-done. And I saw no reason any of Victor's family *wouldn't* be supportive. That would have felt like unnecessary drama.
True but you'll notice that when it did happen they tried to have other characters react to it in meaningful ways which would have needed rewrites and, depending on how serious they were, research into what those conversations are like in the real world
How successful they were at that I don't know (they worked for me but I'm cis, so there's probably a lot I don't see) but it was more than just a hand-wave "timey-wimey" thing.
In my opinion, the show handled it perfectly. It was addressed, he came out, the other characters were surprised but supportive. Questions were asked politely. Then it wasn’t made to be a huge thing. They moved on and it just became normal. It wasn’t super preachy, or transphobic it didn’t come off as “how do you do, fellow queers” either.
I’ve seen way too many shows try to appeal to the left only for it to come across as condescending. “One day at a time” is very much this way. Non binary character mentions it like every time they’re on screen. Like it’s written for/by Middle Aged people trying to understand gen z.
Then there’s the Grey’s Anatomy later seasons ham fisted approach at getting on a soap box and having horribly out of character dialogue that doesn’t fit at all. Just for the sake of getting a message out there. Hell the abortion/ambulance episode was fucking painful to watch. Wayyyyyy too much “how do you do fellow leftists.”
But none of that with umbrella academy. And honestly that’s what trans people want. We want representation without it being preachy. We want it addressed, it to be meaningful, but it’s not the entire characters personality.
To put it more succinctly: we want characters that happen to be trans, not characters that being trans is their entire character.
I want more like Gus Fring from Breaking Bad, but it’s only shown in Better Call Saul. Like it’s hinted at. He’s never shown having a partner much, more indirectly. His pining over the bartender, knowing he can never be with him due to his life. It’s important to the character, but not his whole personality.
Yeah, that is a big change to a show and is something that can be difficult to write/produce in a sensitive way that also feels authentic to the audience. It would be a daunting task on top of everything else that already goes into making the show.
I doubt this was a text that was sent *to* Elliot.
Also you can be completely supportive of someone being trans and still have a very negative reaction to them wanting it to be written into the story of a character they're playing on a show you're in charge of.
Elliots pronouns are [he/they](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_Page#:~:text=on%20such%20matters.-,In%202014%2C%20Page%20was%20included%20in%20The%20Advocate's%20annual,revealed%20his%20new%20name%2C%20Elliot.) and they were very supported by the umbrella academy in having his character come out as well. ["If anything, he was the one who was very insistent on me having it be a part of the show and supported me to be able to access the care I was hoping to get at that time,"](https://people.com/elliot-page-says-umbrella-academy-showrunner-was-incredible-upon-sharing-transition-plans-8639235#:~:text=%22If%20anything%2C%20he%20was%20the,that%20time%2C%22%20he%20added.&text=In%20December%202020%2C%20Page%20came,a%20statement%20shared%20to%20Instagram.) -elliot page
People are so goofy around Elliot Page.
And hey, it worked with the character! He’s also the biggest name tied to the show. Even if he was pushing for this, it’d be a reasonable thing to push for.
Also, such a fucking Chad move, ngl. Just make the character trans too because the actor came out as trans. Fucking mind blowing solution, but I am very glad it happened in this timeline.
How would it not make sense with a character? Like I know sure audiences would accept some changes more than others, but the narrativization of people’s internal experiences is absolutely played for TV and creates lots of misconceptions for… lots of people. Queer folks, people with mental illness of every kind, tokenized minorities. Making them exist in a context you are willing to accept is literally the opposite of doing effective representation most of the time.
It worked so well that it made me watch the show, and I'm annoyed because I really didn't think it was a good show but I kept pushing to see his coming out and the rest lol
Even if he did say that, which I doubt considering how well Elliot Page spoke about him, it was probably in the sense of "We already had the script done now I gotta get rewrites" kind of exasperation, not transphobic. But I doubt the "critical" drinker community would ever think of that though
Was also about to say the same. I didn't think of it as something transphobic at first, more like a stressed response from someone who now has to adjust and make changes. Could be considered inappropriate depending on the context, but not necessarily done out of malice or bigotry.
A transition is not much different from any pregnancy, sudden image change, accidents, family emergency etc a cast member might have during the course of a show anyway. Life happens. Dealing with changes is inevitable especially if it's a long running series.
Yeah, this was one of the top comments also.in the discussion.
And I think it is valid to feel annoyed when you feel done with something and have to make so many changes.
Dude i stumbled on that thread from my “popular” feed and it was fucking terrible. There were tons of upvotes on shit like “being transphobic is common sense” or whatever.
Umbrella academy handled this by far the best way I've seen, it wasn't hushed and swept under the rug but it wasn't this huge dramatic bs either, it was a realistic take of someone telling their siblings that they're trans and their siblings going "I'm ok with that"
It was so cute how luther wanted to throw a party for victor, that legit was the best scene for me. That and the scene where they were singing at luthers bachelor party and Viktor was with them
Yeah it was very natural. "Hey guys, I think I'm Viktor instead of Vanya" "Cool, bro, we are happy that you figured out something about yourself! Now let's get back to saving the world".
I somehow made it into popular instead of my home tab today and I read the comments. I felt SO FUCKING BAD all day, I'm so relieved this popped up in here 😭
reminds me of a tweet i saw when i was in my conservative phase that was like "elliott page has just cut off her breasts" and it was some old guy. why can't they just respect elliott??
Because he turned them on when he was a "girl", and when a "girl" does anything that makes themself "unsexy" to men, that's a crime against humanity.
The sad thing is, you can replace "men" with "radfem wlw", and the point is the same---because plenty of TERF wlws were pissed off that they "lost" Elliot to the evil Trans Agenda.
Anecdotally I've seen transphobes use "they" to refer to trans women who exclusively use she/her pronouns. I think they believe it's a way to not respect a trans woman's identity while also not misgendering (they're wrong, but still).
(they probably also do this with trans people of other identities, but I've only seen it with trans women)
it's plausible deniability, just like wrting "transwoman" instead of writing it spearetely, so they can still dehumanize trans women whislt appearing as non-transphobic on the surface
Wait... that's not just a different but correct spelling?
I thought the difference there was like Color and Colour, both correct but used by different people.
trans is an adjective, shorthand for transgender. saying transwoman is like saying blackman or tallwoman. it would look silly if you call someone transgenderman. in the worst of cases, transwoman is is used as a way to dehumanize or ostracize transgender people. as a general rule, there should be a space between an adjective and its noun :)
The post itself isn't that bad, but some of the comments are vile:
comment:
>I always get the vibe that when certain celebs come out as "trans" there is something more behind it. I firmly believe Ellen was most likely sexually assaulted when she was younger in Hollywood and the only way to cope with it was to just deny her sexuality and change her identity just so she could get away from the identity of being sexually assaulted as a woman.
>The same goes for George Takei, granted his happened at a summer camp where an older man sexually assaulted him. To me I don't think he was gay at that point but I think he made himself turn gay just to cope with the fact that a man had sexually assaulted him. I'm sure there are many more examples people can come up with but those are just two that always stick out in the back of my head.
reply:
>What you just described is the case for most trans people
reply:
>Homosexuals as well. I’ve had many friends in and around the lgb community and it’s no secret that they have always had a P problem. What in the fuck.
I thought I heard Billy jole Armstrong was (was it him that made it I forget) chill with Elliot and even asked if he wanted the character to fit his transition
they need Media literacy. i looked up the rolling Stone article it's from and he was talking about his workload and rewriting an already written season. but people these days only read headlines and think "yep that's the whole article"
I can see him saying this and it not being transphobic, though. He may have just meant it like, "Fuck. Now I have to figure out how to write this into the script." Showrunner is a pretty stressful job.
The showrunner’s reaction doesn’t sound transphobic to me so much as someone who’s contemplating how much work this is going to take: rewriting a character to give them a completely new arch, rethinking what this might mean for the story that was planned, dealing with criticism from transphobes, dealing with criticism from fans of the comics that they have now gender swapped a major character, dealing with criticism from trans allies if they don’t handle the transition and representation perfectly. It’s a lot!
Of course, I don’t know anything about Steve Blackman. So maybe he did mean this in a transphobic way 🤷♀️
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Ok so steer me in the right direction if I’m facing the wrong way but in the show as far as I’m aware we haven’t seen the character really show signs of being trans it could be to the show runner / writers being a bigot but I’m not sure how it would be tied into the show organically at this point and I don’t want the actor to get gender dysphoria from playing the character ( ps it’s been awhile since I’ve seen the show)
I 100% support Page in fact im trans myself but you are literally an actor playing a female role, do I get that he might felt uncomfortable ? Yes, but its your literal job. Making the character trans really wasnt a great idea or at least it was done very badly, they could have build up to it and told a good story but they just pushed it into a finished season. It came out of no where, felt forced and even I was annoyed by it. Yes trans representation is good but bad one really doesnt help anyone (always funny to see transphobes cry over it tho) and to be honest there isnt a lot of good trans representation at all, I think I have seen like 5 trans characters which didnt feel forced or were a walking stereotype in all of media and 2 of them are from One Piece.
Just be clear tho, I have no idea who pushed this and if the result is what the people responsible had in mind so im not blaming anyone. Also if that post is real and if it isnt out of context then fuck that guy.
So no one can be critical of storyline on their favorite show? All politics aside, it was not a good plot point because it hadn’t been set up at all. That’s why it felt forced
There’s not always a sinister purpose behind criticism.
Not gonna lie, I don’t feel like the last season in general was that great. Most of the sparrow academy were throwaway characters and it just felt like people were mostly twiddling their thumbs till the world ended. Vanya becoming Victor was a fine, believable element of the show and your word choice of “forced the writers”, “shoehorn”, and “clunky” is kind of telling. It’s like that undying rhetoric around “unnecessary gay characters” (people who say this just don’t want to see gay people in the media)
And ofc it wouldn't be a trash rag if they didn't misgender Elliot by calling him 'they'. Yet, what are the chances they'll use that for a person who actually uses those pronouns I wonder.
Apparently, Elliot uses he/they pronouns, but there is something that feels kind of sus about their use of it.
Like one of those "haha I don't believe they're *really* that gender, so I can use this to get away with it! Nyeheheh!" things, kind of like a lot of people did with Demi Lovato when they came out with she/they pronouns, and people consistently used "she" for her.
Huh. Didn't know that.
Yeah and I heard someone (I can't remember if it was Miley Cyrus or Demi Lovato) said she was so tired of people not using they/them that she just switched back to she/her out of sheer exhaustion.
But the mag in the comments def reads like it's trying to misgender Elliot. And the sub most def is.
He had some legitimately valid criticisms about the sad state of Hollywood and I was blinded by his coolness. Took me a while to realize he was an asshole
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Didn't Elliott say that the creators were extremely supportive of him coming out?? Like I vaguely remember some posts on the umbrella academy subreddit saying that.
Yep. [Lis Angeles Times](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2022-06-22/elliot-page-umbrella-academy-trans-character-viktor-hargreeves) He even said Blackman was supportive. But, it's also a work environment, so I doubt Blackman was directly transphobic to Elliot.
Maybe that was all a marketing tactic? Too make the left watch the show? Theory time!!! I think Elliott knew abt Steve being an asshole but the marketing department told him to go out and laud Steve as an open minded guy to get views from the progressives. But Now that many PPL are cmng forward with their accusations they have no choice but to take action against him.
You're very probably right about Elliot knowing. It's standard for the entertainment industry to shield a$$holes like Blackman. It's not conspiracy if it's true.
The Predator (2018) had a rapist in their set When actress Olivia Munn pointed it out, her entire career was eviscerated Edit: disregard that, apparently she had a child and also suffered from some type of cancer, so she decided to just take care of her child
Is that why she disappeared??? She was one of my earliest girl crushes and I wondered why she fell off. I thought it was just because she married a celeb and left the public life a bit but omg, the truth is way sadder. Ugh
Said rapist was a producer if I recall correctly so... Edit: I take back what I said, the comment below this one perfectly explains what happened to Olivia
Unless there was more than one, the guy in question was an actor who only had one scene in the movie (with Munn) and she requested that it be cut from the movie. Which apparently it was. I also don't really think there has been some conspiracy to blacklist her. She continued working in projects after The Predator. She had previously accused Brett Ratner of sexual harassment in 2017, but still got the role in The Predator and a bunch of other stuff. The reality is, Olivia had a child in 2021 and I'm sure she wanted to take time out for that. Then she was diagnosed with an aggressive form of breast cancer in 2023, which has required 4 surgeries, including a double mastectomy. So I'm going to guess that giving birth and trying to raise a small child while having cancer, tons of major surgery and dealing with recovery/treatments has more to do with her leaving the public eye. In my experience, almost every single time I have seen people claiming some actor has been blacklisted due to a conspiracy, when I look them up they just have a ton of crazy stuff happening in their personal life that put their career on hold.
tbf i hadn't heard anything about her after the predator flick so yeah
I mean, it CAN be a conspiracy and true. Just because most conspiracy theories are bullsit, doesn't mean there aren't real conspiracies, like this one, out there
Elliott figured out he was trans and wouldn't experience gender dysphoria for the sake of the show. The show writers did the right thing and adapted to his needs. Leftists don't watch tv shows to jizz their pants seeing inclusion. People on the right however..... well lets just say The New Norm, Mr. Birchum, and Lady Ballers aren't well-crafted stories with lots of adoring fans
> Leftists don't watch tv shows to jizz their pants seeing inclusion Regressives love projecting with shit like this. Just cause they watch garbage to signalis their allegiance doesn't mean others do too
I should add that liberals, aka make-believe progressives, do actually do this. However seeing as they vote for the Democratic party, it's safe to say they are center-right in many of their beliefs anyway.
You mean that the marketing department would lie about something to sell a product?? Gasp!!! /S of course
Also possible this didn’t happen. Why do people see a random news article with no idea what kind of publication wrote it and just assume it’s true? (Not the LA Times article, the one screenshotted in the post)
As a nonbinery trans person, if I was the show runner I would probably reply the same way. Not in an in supportive way but in a “how the fuck are we going to do this?” way.
Yeah I was thinking that sounds like someone just being informed of a big change of plans in the storyline they have planned, not necessarily transphobic.
Yeah, I want a bit more context here. As someone who works to tight deadlines, I often express this sentiment - not because I'm opposed to the request but because I'd prefer it to be made at an earlier stage of the process so i don't have to rewrite a bunch of stuff I'd thought we were all good on. Bonus points if it means I have to resubmit for approvals (which in my world always takes far longer than it should) Not saying dude is/n't transphobic, just that I can also see other possibilities.
Have you seen the show? I only watched the first season but they're time travelling and shit. If you can do that, changing genders is pretty easy to explain.
As far as I remember it was done pretty tastefully, like how I would assume a person transitioning would be in real life. All of them accepted it and then in the season never misgender him. Which was pretty sweet.
I really like that, at least on Netflix, they updated the previous seasons to put his chosen name in the credits! It was a very considerate thing to do that I think a lot of people wouldn't think is worth the effort. But yeah, as someone who's had family come out as trans, it was pretty much like, "yeah, ok, cool! Glad you're discovering yourself, and we love and support you." And then that was it. Although I also made a joke about how now I can't brag about her defying gender norms (she likes knitting, which is unusual for men, but now I know she's not one lol). From a supportive family perspective, I thought it was well-done. And I saw no reason any of Victor's family *wouldn't* be supportive. That would have felt like unnecessary drama.
True but you'll notice that when it did happen they tried to have other characters react to it in meaningful ways which would have needed rewrites and, depending on how serious they were, research into what those conversations are like in the real world How successful they were at that I don't know (they worked for me but I'm cis, so there's probably a lot I don't see) but it was more than just a hand-wave "timey-wimey" thing.
In my opinion, the show handled it perfectly. It was addressed, he came out, the other characters were surprised but supportive. Questions were asked politely. Then it wasn’t made to be a huge thing. They moved on and it just became normal. It wasn’t super preachy, or transphobic it didn’t come off as “how do you do, fellow queers” either. I’ve seen way too many shows try to appeal to the left only for it to come across as condescending. “One day at a time” is very much this way. Non binary character mentions it like every time they’re on screen. Like it’s written for/by Middle Aged people trying to understand gen z. Then there’s the Grey’s Anatomy later seasons ham fisted approach at getting on a soap box and having horribly out of character dialogue that doesn’t fit at all. Just for the sake of getting a message out there. Hell the abortion/ambulance episode was fucking painful to watch. Wayyyyyy too much “how do you do fellow leftists.” But none of that with umbrella academy. And honestly that’s what trans people want. We want representation without it being preachy. We want it addressed, it to be meaningful, but it’s not the entire characters personality. To put it more succinctly: we want characters that happen to be trans, not characters that being trans is their entire character.
I can empathize. That's where gay representation was for the longest time and haven't fully broken free of even now (though it is getting better).
I want more like Gus Fring from Breaking Bad, but it’s only shown in Better Call Saul. Like it’s hinted at. He’s never shown having a partner much, more indirectly. His pining over the bartender, knowing he can never be with him due to his life. It’s important to the character, but not his whole personality.
Yeah, that is a big change to a show and is something that can be difficult to write/produce in a sensitive way that also feels authentic to the audience. It would be a daunting task on top of everything else that already goes into making the show.
I wouldnt be surprised if it was because they knew they were about to get a lot of hate?
I doubt this was a text that was sent *to* Elliot. Also you can be completely supportive of someone being trans and still have a very negative reaction to them wanting it to be written into the story of a character they're playing on a show you're in charge of.
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sad cake day.
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Elliots pronouns are [he/they](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_Page#:~:text=on%20such%20matters.-,In%202014%2C%20Page%20was%20included%20in%20The%20Advocate's%20annual,revealed%20his%20new%20name%2C%20Elliot.) and they were very supported by the umbrella academy in having his character come out as well. ["If anything, he was the one who was very insistent on me having it be a part of the show and supported me to be able to access the care I was hoping to get at that time,"](https://people.com/elliot-page-says-umbrella-academy-showrunner-was-incredible-upon-sharing-transition-plans-8639235#:~:text=%22If%20anything%2C%20he%20was%20the,that%20time%2C%22%20he%20added.&text=In%20December%202020%2C%20Page%20came,a%20statement%20shared%20to%20Instagram.) -elliot page
People are so goofy around Elliot Page. And hey, it worked with the character! He’s also the biggest name tied to the show. Even if he was pushing for this, it’d be a reasonable thing to push for.
Also, such a fucking Chad move, ngl. Just make the character trans too because the actor came out as trans. Fucking mind blowing solution, but I am very glad it happened in this timeline.
At least it made sense with the character
How would it not make sense with a character? Like I know sure audiences would accept some changes more than others, but the narrativization of people’s internal experiences is absolutely played for TV and creates lots of misconceptions for… lots of people. Queer folks, people with mental illness of every kind, tokenized minorities. Making them exist in a context you are willing to accept is literally the opposite of doing effective representation most of the time.
It worked so well that it made me watch the show, and I'm annoyed because I really didn't think it was a good show but I kept pushing to see his coming out and the rest lol
A transphobe agrees with someone who's just been outed as insanely toxic and abusive? What a shock.
I lack reading comprehension and thought you meant Elliot for a minute. I can't keep scwring myself like this...
I must also lack reading comprehension because I thought the same.
Same. But I don't understand what else they can mean with the formulation, tho 😭
I think they're saying OOP agrees with the producer.
Wait, that means "outed" can be used in other contexts than CO ? :o
This is just a straight up lie.
the way they’re just spreading misinformation too 💀
It’s almost like bigotry rots the critical thinking parts of our brain.
Often it's the other way round.
Keep telling on yourself.
I think they meant that critical thinking often gets rid of bigotry
I think you're right, I wonder if the comment has been misunderstood
All the downvotes on this comment tell quite the story, lol.
Even if he did say that, which I doubt considering how well Elliot Page spoke about him, it was probably in the sense of "We already had the script done now I gotta get rewrites" kind of exasperation, not transphobic. But I doubt the "critical" drinker community would ever think of that though
Was also about to say the same. I didn't think of it as something transphobic at first, more like a stressed response from someone who now has to adjust and make changes. Could be considered inappropriate depending on the context, but not necessarily done out of malice or bigotry. A transition is not much different from any pregnancy, sudden image change, accidents, family emergency etc a cast member might have during the course of a show anyway. Life happens. Dealing with changes is inevitable especially if it's a long running series.
>"We already had the script done now I gotta get rewrites Yeah i also got it as a, frick more work on the script, way
Yeah, this was one of the top comments also.in the discussion. And I think it is valid to feel annoyed when you feel done with something and have to make so many changes.
Dude i stumbled on that thread from my “popular” feed and it was fucking terrible. There were tons of upvotes on shit like “being transphobic is common sense” or whatever.
Same. Saw it in the popular feed, and was thinking...this people cannot be real
Yeah being given a complicated task that's deeply personal to someone after you thought the job was already done would suck
Maybe because of people like critical drinker getting all the chuds riled up about it, and not the actual request itself. Just a thought lol.
I could see him dreading the snowflakes complaining about wokeness being a PITA.
Umbrella academy handled this by far the best way I've seen, it wasn't hushed and swept under the rug but it wasn't this huge dramatic bs either, it was a realistic take of someone telling their siblings that they're trans and their siblings going "I'm ok with that"
It was so cute how luther wanted to throw a party for victor, that legit was the best scene for me. That and the scene where they were singing at luthers bachelor party and Viktor was with them
Yeah it was very natural. "Hey guys, I think I'm Viktor instead of Vanya" "Cool, bro, we are happy that you figured out something about yourself! Now let's get back to saving the world".
Still obsessed with him.
I somehow made it into popular instead of my home tab today and I read the comments. I felt SO FUCKING BAD all day, I'm so relieved this popped up in here 😭
Every time I see something like this I just mute the sub. I don't need to see this sort of shit
yeah I don't know what thus sub is for but I muted it pretty much right away
they’re sooo disgusting it’s so sad how many of them have infiltrated neutral spaces online
bro doesn't realize Gerard Way made the umbrella academy
Incidentally, this was my reaction to myself realizing I was trans and wanted to come out lmao
reminds me of a tweet i saw when i was in my conservative phase that was like "elliott page has just cut off her breasts" and it was some old guy. why can't they just respect elliott??
Because he turned them on when he was a "girl", and when a "girl" does anything that makes themself "unsexy" to men, that's a crime against humanity. The sad thing is, you can replace "men" with "radfem wlw", and the point is the same---because plenty of TERF wlws were pissed off that they "lost" Elliot to the evil Trans Agenda.
Every time Elliot Page gets mentioned I keep thinking of the “this small boy” joke from the Inception Honest Trailer.
Elliot uses he/him. That aggressive they is doing a lot of work.
I thought he uses he/they
You are correct and I am corrected, though I doubt OP is using it in good faith.
The bad faith people tend to be allergic to the singular they. I suspect @decider was deliberately using correct pronouns.
Anecdotally I've seen transphobes use "they" to refer to trans women who exclusively use she/her pronouns. I think they believe it's a way to not respect a trans woman's identity while also not misgendering (they're wrong, but still). (they probably also do this with trans people of other identities, but I've only seen it with trans women)
it's plausible deniability, just like wrting "transwoman" instead of writing it spearetely, so they can still dehumanize trans women whislt appearing as non-transphobic on the surface
using as a litmus test is far from a sure thing though; a lot of people *including trans women* still write it that way, especially older queer people
It's mostly another thing to watch out for really
Wait... that's not just a different but correct spelling? I thought the difference there was like Color and Colour, both correct but used by different people.
yes and no, it heavily depends on the context
trans is an adjective, shorthand for transgender. saying transwoman is like saying blackman or tallwoman. it would look silly if you call someone transgenderman. in the worst of cases, transwoman is is used as a way to dehumanize or ostracize transgender people. as a general rule, there should be a space between an adjective and its noun :)
Yes, this is what I suspected.
The post itself isn't that bad, but some of the comments are vile: comment: >I always get the vibe that when certain celebs come out as "trans" there is something more behind it. I firmly believe Ellen was most likely sexually assaulted when she was younger in Hollywood and the only way to cope with it was to just deny her sexuality and change her identity just so she could get away from the identity of being sexually assaulted as a woman. >The same goes for George Takei, granted his happened at a summer camp where an older man sexually assaulted him. To me I don't think he was gay at that point but I think he made himself turn gay just to cope with the fact that a man had sexually assaulted him. I'm sure there are many more examples people can come up with but those are just two that always stick out in the back of my head. reply: >What you just described is the case for most trans people reply: >Homosexuals as well. I’ve had many friends in and around the lgb community and it’s no secret that they have always had a P problem. What in the fuck.
Is there a non-transphobic critical drinker fan?
You could've just titled this 'Average CD viewer', the 'transphobic' is just redundant at that point.
Not really. Idk what Critical Drinker was until now.
I thought I heard Billy jole Armstrong was (was it him that made it I forget) chill with Elliot and even asked if he wanted the character to fit his transition
Gerard way made the show
My bad idk how I mixed them up
Haha, I used to get their names mixed up, too.
they need Media literacy. i looked up the rolling Stone article it's from and he was talking about his workload and rewriting an already written season. but people these days only read headlines and think "yep that's the whole article"
I can see him saying this and it not being transphobic, though. He may have just meant it like, "Fuck. Now I have to figure out how to write this into the script." Showrunner is a pretty stressful job.
The showrunner’s reaction doesn’t sound transphobic to me so much as someone who’s contemplating how much work this is going to take: rewriting a character to give them a completely new arch, rethinking what this might mean for the story that was planned, dealing with criticism from transphobes, dealing with criticism from fans of the comics that they have now gender swapped a major character, dealing with criticism from trans allies if they don’t handle the transition and representation perfectly. It’s a lot! Of course, I don’t know anything about Steve Blackman. So maybe he did mean this in a transphobic way 🤷♀️
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They'd gender swapped the character in the first place lol they were literally moving it back to be more in line with the comic.
Ok so steer me in the right direction if I’m facing the wrong way but in the show as far as I’m aware we haven’t seen the character really show signs of being trans it could be to the show runner / writers being a bigot but I’m not sure how it would be tied into the show organically at this point and I don’t want the actor to get gender dysphoria from playing the character ( ps it’s been awhile since I’ve seen the show)
I 100% support Page in fact im trans myself but you are literally an actor playing a female role, do I get that he might felt uncomfortable ? Yes, but its your literal job. Making the character trans really wasnt a great idea or at least it was done very badly, they could have build up to it and told a good story but they just pushed it into a finished season. It came out of no where, felt forced and even I was annoyed by it. Yes trans representation is good but bad one really doesnt help anyone (always funny to see transphobes cry over it tho) and to be honest there isnt a lot of good trans representation at all, I think I have seen like 5 trans characters which didnt feel forced or were a walking stereotype in all of media and 2 of them are from One Piece. Just be clear tho, I have no idea who pushed this and if the result is what the people responsible had in mind so im not blaming anyone. Also if that post is real and if it isnt out of context then fuck that guy.
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"Some will take it wrong" or maybe what you said is wrong?
So no one can be critical of storyline on their favorite show? All politics aside, it was not a good plot point because it hadn’t been set up at all. That’s why it felt forced There’s not always a sinister purpose behind criticism.
Of course you can be critical of it, but I can be critical of you. As can other people.
Pennies from heaven. Oobee doobie
Ok whatever.
Whenever. Shakira Shakira!
Not gonna lie, I don’t feel like the last season in general was that great. Most of the sparrow academy were throwaway characters and it just felt like people were mostly twiddling their thumbs till the world ended. Vanya becoming Victor was a fine, believable element of the show and your word choice of “forced the writers”, “shoehorn”, and “clunky” is kind of telling. It’s like that undying rhetoric around “unnecessary gay characters” (people who say this just don’t want to see gay people in the media)
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Adding : don't DM me to say sexual things. That's offensive.
And ofc it wouldn't be a trash rag if they didn't misgender Elliot by calling him 'they'. Yet, what are the chances they'll use that for a person who actually uses those pronouns I wonder.
Apparently, Elliot uses he/they pronouns, but there is something that feels kind of sus about their use of it. Like one of those "haha I don't believe they're *really* that gender, so I can use this to get away with it! Nyeheheh!" things, kind of like a lot of people did with Demi Lovato when they came out with she/they pronouns, and people consistently used "she" for her.
Huh. Didn't know that. Yeah and I heard someone (I can't remember if it was Miley Cyrus or Demi Lovato) said she was so tired of people not using they/them that she just switched back to she/her out of sheer exhaustion. But the mag in the comments def reads like it's trying to misgender Elliot. And the sub most def is.
He had some legitimately valid criticisms about the sad state of Hollywood and I was blinded by his coolness. Took me a while to realize he was an asshole