The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written.
We have two schools less than a mile apart. Teacher appreciation week was the same week as Cinco De Mayo. One PTA did a Mexican fiesta themed lunch for teachers the other PTA rejected the same idea because it was not just inclusive of other cultures. Which PTA would you support?
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At first glance, the idea that one holiday or celebration is not inclusive of every other such thing strikes me as silly. I don't see how it being Cinco De Mayo is relevant - you could make the same argument around green shit on St Patrick's Day. Trivializing and/or commercializing holidays is a grand American tradition.
It's an apt comparison. Like St. Patrick's day, Cinco De Mayo is barely celebrated in it's home country and has been adopted by the US as an excuse to go out drinking.
I also wonder if it’s not just Cinco De Mayo but also The Day of the Dead as well. Like I’ve been told my whole life that Halloween was directly inspired by DotD, however in Mexico it’s not nearly as huge of a celebrated holiday as maybe it once was.
>you could make the same argument around green shit on St Patrick's Day
If I had to hazard a guess, it would be that this decision did stem from the same argument being applied to another holiday -- not St. Patrick's Day, but Christmas.
Someone thought,
*"We're not supposed to celebrate Christmas specifically, because that's not inclusive to non-Christian students. We have to celebrate Winter Holidays instead. Therefor we also shouldn't celebrate Cinco de Mayo because it's not inclusive to non-Mexican students."*
Either it's a good-intentioned PTA member who went overboard with the inclusivity, or it's a conservative Christian who is engaging in a little malicious compliance.
The third possibility is that OP made the whole thing up, and is slyly trying to make a point about Christmas celebrations not being allowed.
Either way, it seems like there's a pretty good chance that this all traces back to Christmas somehow.
You may very well be right, but personally I don't buy that comparison. Christmas is an explicitly religious holiday (in theory), whereas Cinco De Mayo is something else entirely. The protections we have in place around public endorsement of religion are much stronger than anything there might be around public endorsement of whatever Cinco De Mayo means to the average American.
>The protections we have in place around public endorsement of religion are much stronger...
Well yeah, that's why banning a Cinco de Mayo celebration in the name of inclusivity is a stupid thing to do, whereas it makes a little more sense for religious holidays.
But the Christmas angle is the most logical explanation I can think of for how someone could come up with the idea.
>Christmas is an explicitly religious holiday (in theory), whereas Cinco De Mayo is something else entirely.
That something else is an anti-french holiday. Maybe the teacher was upset to be celebrating the deaths of their ancestors?
Do you view Independence Day as an anti-british holiday? Do you think Brits do?
This feels like a weird way to think about those days. I'm sure there was a bit of that sentiment while the people directly involved still lived, but to still be resentful today is a tad outlandish.
>Do you view Independence Day as an anti-british holiday? Do you think Brits do?
Maybe but Cinco de Mayo isn't an indepence day. It's celebrating victory in a battle and not even a particularly decisive one. The entire thing is that they beat up on some French soldiers that were better equipped and were proud about it. The war went on for like another 4 years after this relatively small skirmish
It's like if Britain had a 21st October day to remember the battle of Trafalgar where they wrecked the French navy
The point being made here is there are people who are not Mexican and do not celebrate Cinco de Mayo. (Which is certainly true). So, the poster is hypothesizing that someone is trying too hard to conform to that concept, or, someone is trying to make a point that it doesn't make sense that Muslim and Jewish kids can't participate in a Christmas themed party, same as a non Mexican can participate in a Cinco de mayo party.
>At first glance, the idea that one holiday or celebration is not inclusive of every other such thing strikes me as silly. I don't see how it being Cinco De Mayo is relevant - you could make the same argument around green shit on St Patrick's Day.
Every time I hear a complaint about something not being "inclusive" of others, I use what I call the "birthday party rule." Just think of the event in question as a birthday party. Is the person making the complaint someone who wasn't invited to the party (as in *literally* excluded), or is the complaint coming from a guest who is upset that they aren't the focus of the party?
If the PTA lunch was only for people of Mexican ethnicity and no one else, that would not be inclusive. If everyone was invited to the *themed* lunch, then it's inclusive, and whoever is bitching about it is just mad that it doesn't center the attention around them or their preference.
Many people who argue exclusion are actually just sore about not being the center of attention.
Honestly man we do not care about this stuff nearly as much as you guys think we do. The only reason I can possibly imagine to care about this one way or the other is if I was one of the teachers in question and either really liked or really did not like Mexican food.
I'm on the right side of the spectrum and I don't care either.
What this says to me is that someone with good intentions said, "Hey we have a teacher appreciation day, it's close to Cinco de Mayo so let's give it a theme" and someone else got bent out of shape for whatever reason.
Make sure there is a variety of food to accommodate most diets, play some mariachi music. Since we are dealing with teachers and know the difficulties of that profession, maybe some under the counter margaritas (/s).
That’s how I think of it as well. How would you have responded in the PTA meeting? Would you speak up to promote a vote on the Friday theme or would you choose not to die on this hill? Our board chose not to resist and my feeling is the same vocal minority are the ones who drive cancel culture. I could see it playing out as factions on an otherwise functional board. Nobody wants that over a lunch choice. Your thoughts?
Edit: Just seems a lot of control then is given to the edge cases.
Your thoughts?
I fail to see why this is some sort of impactful decision. Both choices seem perfectly acceptable to me, it’s just a matter of that the people involved want to do.
Cinco de Mayo is barely even a Mexican holiday inn the first place. Why would anyone turn down an opportunity to have Mexican food? The second PTA sounds like a goofy stick in the mud.
I don’t care honestly. I think we need to care less about these things.
But this is the United States. Mexican food is about inclusive of all cultures as pizza or hamburgers. Salsa is the number one condiment sold in this country.
This would be like someone in England, complaining that Indian food is not inclusive.
I mean, I guess one of the PTAs has a bunch of people who think most food with a country name in it counts as ethnic and not inclusive. Because they sure as shit didn’t do a buffet featuring every possible cuisine in the world to be inclusive.
My reasoning or theirs? I did typo but I thought it immaterial. It was not inclusive of other cultures (omit “just”). That was the reason our PTA moved off the idea. DO You think I am making this up?
My logic of inclusivity is what you don’t believe? That was their stated reasoning. It wasn’t pressed so idk if they intended something different and chose the wrong word.
Neither, if everyone is on board with the Cinco de Mayo party then great but if someone is uncomfortable with that then they don’t need to be forced to throw a party to certain theme.
P
Not exactly - Teacher appreciation week included the holiday and volunteers did a thing each day for teachers. Friday was suggested to be Mexican fiesta theme w/ Taco bar as it was on May 5th. Some on the PTA (volunteer) board opposed it so it was scrapped for some other food.
Who cares?
These are PTAs who vote on things.
One wanted to have a theme, the other didn’t.
The context is lunch.
Are we looking for selective outrage over lunch?
If you read the article I don’t see a similarity.
And FWIW going out of your way to serve chicken & waffles with watermelon on the first day of black history month in a middle school is in bad taste.
It is similar in that people get mad about this stuff.
Why is it in bad taste? You’re choosing to view it that way. There’s nothing inherently wrong with chicken and waffles.
Gimme a break. If they had a cookout with hot dogs (aka brats) and sauerkraut, would that be German and not inclusive of other cultures? What about a pizza party? Too Italian?
Or just venison and corn - too Native American?
I'd laugh at the PTA that rejected the Cinco idea - as they are mindless kneejerk hypocrites.
That’s how I think of it as well. How would you have responded in the PTA meeting? Would you speak up to promote a vote on the Friday theme or would you choose not to die on this hill? Our board chose not to resist
My feeling is the vocal minority are the ones who drive confrontation. I could see it playing out here as factions on an otherwise functional board or worse members fear being doxed etc. for not aligning. Nobody wants that over a lunch choice. Just seems a lot of control is given to the vocal minority to avoid confrontation.
Your thoughts?
I'd ask the board this, "What sort of menu / theme can you possibly suggest that is inclusive of all cultures so as not to offend anyone". Yes, I would speak up.
I'm tires of many liberals who seem to look for reasons to be offended, and use that as leverage to elevate themselves over others.
My local Democratic Town Committee has a "Holiday Party" every December. Please. Call it a Christmas Party. We all know that's why we're there.
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. We have two schools less than a mile apart. Teacher appreciation week was the same week as Cinco De Mayo. One PTA did a Mexican fiesta themed lunch for teachers the other PTA rejected the same idea because it was not just inclusive of other cultures. Which PTA would you support? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
At first glance, the idea that one holiday or celebration is not inclusive of every other such thing strikes me as silly. I don't see how it being Cinco De Mayo is relevant - you could make the same argument around green shit on St Patrick's Day. Trivializing and/or commercializing holidays is a grand American tradition.
It's an apt comparison. Like St. Patrick's day, Cinco De Mayo is barely celebrated in it's home country and has been adopted by the US as an excuse to go out drinking.
I also wonder if it’s not just Cinco De Mayo but also The Day of the Dead as well. Like I’ve been told my whole life that Halloween was directly inspired by DotD, however in Mexico it’s not nearly as huge of a celebrated holiday as maybe it once was.
>you could make the same argument around green shit on St Patrick's Day If I had to hazard a guess, it would be that this decision did stem from the same argument being applied to another holiday -- not St. Patrick's Day, but Christmas. Someone thought, *"We're not supposed to celebrate Christmas specifically, because that's not inclusive to non-Christian students. We have to celebrate Winter Holidays instead. Therefor we also shouldn't celebrate Cinco de Mayo because it's not inclusive to non-Mexican students."* Either it's a good-intentioned PTA member who went overboard with the inclusivity, or it's a conservative Christian who is engaging in a little malicious compliance. The third possibility is that OP made the whole thing up, and is slyly trying to make a point about Christmas celebrations not being allowed. Either way, it seems like there's a pretty good chance that this all traces back to Christmas somehow.
You may very well be right, but personally I don't buy that comparison. Christmas is an explicitly religious holiday (in theory), whereas Cinco De Mayo is something else entirely. The protections we have in place around public endorsement of religion are much stronger than anything there might be around public endorsement of whatever Cinco De Mayo means to the average American.
>The protections we have in place around public endorsement of religion are much stronger... Well yeah, that's why banning a Cinco de Mayo celebration in the name of inclusivity is a stupid thing to do, whereas it makes a little more sense for religious holidays. But the Christmas angle is the most logical explanation I can think of for how someone could come up with the idea.
>Christmas is an explicitly religious holiday (in theory), whereas Cinco De Mayo is something else entirely. That something else is an anti-french holiday. Maybe the teacher was upset to be celebrating the deaths of their ancestors?
Do you view Independence Day as an anti-british holiday? Do you think Brits do? This feels like a weird way to think about those days. I'm sure there was a bit of that sentiment while the people directly involved still lived, but to still be resentful today is a tad outlandish.
>Do you view Independence Day as an anti-british holiday? Do you think Brits do? Maybe but Cinco de Mayo isn't an indepence day. It's celebrating victory in a battle and not even a particularly decisive one. The entire thing is that they beat up on some French soldiers that were better equipped and were proud about it. The war went on for like another 4 years after this relatively small skirmish It's like if Britain had a 21st October day to remember the battle of Trafalgar where they wrecked the French navy
Possibility number four: The person complaining hates Mexican food. 🤣
Christmas is a bad example. There are students that are Muslim, Jehovah’s Witness, and atheist who do not celebrate Christmas.
I love a atheist Christmas
>There are students that are Muslim, Jehovah’s Witness, and atheist who do not celebrate Christmas. That's literally the point.
The point being made here is there are people who are not Mexican and do not celebrate Cinco de Mayo. (Which is certainly true). So, the poster is hypothesizing that someone is trying too hard to conform to that concept, or, someone is trying to make a point that it doesn't make sense that Muslim and Jewish kids can't participate in a Christmas themed party, same as a non Mexican can participate in a Cinco de mayo party.
By which you meant to say..."Kyle's mom is a big fat b!?<#"
>At first glance, the idea that one holiday or celebration is not inclusive of every other such thing strikes me as silly. I don't see how it being Cinco De Mayo is relevant - you could make the same argument around green shit on St Patrick's Day. Every time I hear a complaint about something not being "inclusive" of others, I use what I call the "birthday party rule." Just think of the event in question as a birthday party. Is the person making the complaint someone who wasn't invited to the party (as in *literally* excluded), or is the complaint coming from a guest who is upset that they aren't the focus of the party? If the PTA lunch was only for people of Mexican ethnicity and no one else, that would not be inclusive. If everyone was invited to the *themed* lunch, then it's inclusive, and whoever is bitching about it is just mad that it doesn't center the attention around them or their preference. Many people who argue exclusion are actually just sore about not being the center of attention.
Honestly man we do not care about this stuff nearly as much as you guys think we do. The only reason I can possibly imagine to care about this one way or the other is if I was one of the teachers in question and either really liked or really did not like Mexican food.
I'm on the right side of the spectrum and I don't care either. What this says to me is that someone with good intentions said, "Hey we have a teacher appreciation day, it's close to Cinco de Mayo so let's give it a theme" and someone else got bent out of shape for whatever reason. Make sure there is a variety of food to accommodate most diets, play some mariachi music. Since we are dealing with teachers and know the difficulties of that profession, maybe some under the counter margaritas (/s).
Who is “we”?
the broader left coalition.
So the other views expressed here are…
Almost universally in agreement with me.
"liberals". The people you are asking here in " ask a liberal" 🤷🏻♀️
I guess I just didn’t expect one person to speak for all Liberals.
It's a (fair) generalization. Obviously, SOME people care about that stuff, but it's a "vocal minority".
That’s how I think of it as well. How would you have responded in the PTA meeting? Would you speak up to promote a vote on the Friday theme or would you choose not to die on this hill? Our board chose not to resist and my feeling is the same vocal minority are the ones who drive cancel culture. I could see it playing out as factions on an otherwise functional board. Nobody wants that over a lunch choice. Your thoughts? Edit: Just seems a lot of control then is given to the edge cases. Your thoughts?
I fail to see why this is some sort of impactful decision. Both choices seem perfectly acceptable to me, it’s just a matter of that the people involved want to do.
Cinco de Mayo is barely even a Mexican holiday inn the first place. Why would anyone turn down an opportunity to have Mexican food? The second PTA sounds like a goofy stick in the mud.
The main reason I say they shouldn't is the school would probaly cheap out and get really bad mexico food. Like cafeteria quality nachos.
Those suck. I’m with you.
Nobody is right, nobody is wrong. I'd personally be mad if I missed out on Mexican food though. It's the best.
That and your user name - we are friends, nothing you can do about it, friend
Friend! Have you tried the Cinnabonn delights at taco bell? They are amazing!
Who doesn't like a fiesta??? I ate tacos in Frankfurt one time.
Any poor bastard who has to eat the school cafeteria food.
I had tacos in Edinburgh. There’s never a bad time for Mexican food.
You are a heathen.
If they want to. It’s a personal decision. I don’t feel like one is automatically right and the other wrong.
In high-school for one day for black history month we had fried chicken collared greens and black eyed peas. It felt a bit on the nose.
Sounds delicious.
That was our Black History month dinner every year when I was in the Navy. Most of the cooks were black.
What Would Michael Scott Do?
Promise all the kids college tuition.
I don’t care honestly. I think we need to care less about these things. But this is the United States. Mexican food is about inclusive of all cultures as pizza or hamburgers. Salsa is the number one condiment sold in this country. This would be like someone in England, complaining that Indian food is not inclusive. I mean, I guess one of the PTAs has a bunch of people who think most food with a country name in it counts as ethnic and not inclusive. Because they sure as shit didn’t do a buffet featuring every possible cuisine in the world to be inclusive.
I see no problem with it I honestly don't believe your reasoning
My reasoning or theirs? I did typo but I thought it immaterial. It was not inclusive of other cultures (omit “just”). That was the reason our PTA moved off the idea. DO You think I am making this up?
Inclusivity
My logic of inclusivity is what you don’t believe? That was their stated reasoning. It wasn’t pressed so idk if they intended something different and chose the wrong word.
No I don't believe that's a reason that would happen, males this seem fishy
Neither, if everyone is on board with the Cinco de Mayo party then great but if someone is uncomfortable with that then they don’t need to be forced to throw a party to certain theme. P
Why not?
No reason why not. It's not promoting a relgion or even any sort of ideology.
I love Mexican food so I'm on the pro-fiesta side.
Why not just do it? The second one seems no fun at all.
I just don't care enough to have an opinion. This isn't important.
Unexpected Arrested Development.
Only if it incorporates anti-French themes.
[удалено]
Not exactly - Teacher appreciation week included the holiday and volunteers did a thing each day for teachers. Friday was suggested to be Mexican fiesta theme w/ Taco bar as it was on May 5th. Some on the PTA (volunteer) board opposed it so it was scrapped for some other food.
Who cares? These are PTAs who vote on things. One wanted to have a theme, the other didn’t. The context is lunch. Are we looking for selective outrage over lunch?
It’s always a good time for tacos.
I don't care. Do it for Cinco De Mayo or don't. It doesn't matter.
I don't see any problem with it if that's what people want to do.
LOL what kind of a question is this?
Similar to this. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/06/us/aramark-black-history-month-menu-school-reaj
If you read the article I don’t see a similarity. And FWIW going out of your way to serve chicken & waffles with watermelon on the first day of black history month in a middle school is in bad taste.
It is similar in that people get mad about this stuff. Why is it in bad taste? You’re choosing to view it that way. There’s nothing inherently wrong with chicken and waffles.
I guess, if you think about it that way there’s nothing inherently wrong with painting your face black either.
But seriously what do you find offensive about serving chicken and waffles?
I didn’t say offensive, I said altering the preplanned menu to do it on the first day of black history month is in bad taste.
Ok why is it in bad taste then? We are comparing to a fiesta in cinco de mayo
Do you want to talk about why it’s in bad taste or compare it to the cinco de mayo thing? These are two different topics.
Yes that’s why I said they were similar.
Gimme a break. If they had a cookout with hot dogs (aka brats) and sauerkraut, would that be German and not inclusive of other cultures? What about a pizza party? Too Italian? Or just venison and corn - too Native American? I'd laugh at the PTA that rejected the Cinco idea - as they are mindless kneejerk hypocrites.
That’s how I think of it as well. How would you have responded in the PTA meeting? Would you speak up to promote a vote on the Friday theme or would you choose not to die on this hill? Our board chose not to resist My feeling is the vocal minority are the ones who drive confrontation. I could see it playing out here as factions on an otherwise functional board or worse members fear being doxed etc. for not aligning. Nobody wants that over a lunch choice. Just seems a lot of control is given to the vocal minority to avoid confrontation. Your thoughts?
I'd ask the board this, "What sort of menu / theme can you possibly suggest that is inclusive of all cultures so as not to offend anyone". Yes, I would speak up. I'm tires of many liberals who seem to look for reasons to be offended, and use that as leverage to elevate themselves over others. My local Democratic Town Committee has a "Holiday Party" every December. Please. Call it a Christmas Party. We all know that's why we're there.