This subreddit is for civil discussion; political threads are not exempt from this. As a reminder:
* Do not report comments because they disagree with your point of view.
* Do not insult other users. Personal attacks are not permitted.
* Do not use hate speech. You will be banned, permanently.
* Comments made with the intent to push an agenda, push misinformation, soapbox, sealion, or argue in bad faith are not acceptable. If you can’t discuss a topic in good faith and in a respectful manner, do not comment. **Political disagreement does not constitute pushing an agenda.**
If you see any comments that violate the rules, **please report it and move on!**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskAnAmerican) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I have friends and family sympathetic to a lot of their political positions. They don’t vote for them because they know they have very little chance of winning and they want to support the candidate closest to their beliefs that has a chance of winning.
Most of the “libertarians” I’ve met vote republican, but use the libertarian title they don’t take heat for voting for the guy with archaic social political beliefs.
I’ve seen both in my life. The hardcore libertarians who truly drank the kool aid and more socially liberal republicans who just want more socially liberal policies and less federal government in their lives.
Same. Libertarianism provides a useful critique for big government, which can overreach if unchallenged. But there are too many necessary things that can only be done well by society acting collectively for unregulated liberty to work in the real world.
Libertarians in America don’t typically advocate for a complete lack of government, that would be anarcho-capitalist. The goal of the libertarian party has basically been keep government as small as is feasible.
Arguing over the proper size of government is always a debate worth having. I respect the viewpoint of anyone who doesn't say that all taxation is theft or that all property is theft.
The Libertarian Party had a debate as to whether driver's licenses were necessary and the side arguing for necessity lost. The LP can't be taken seriously.
I identify as a libertarian and have friends who do, one of which ran for local government. We're often painted as anarcho-capitilists who want the world to run like Rapture in bioshock lol. In general you're correct though. We acknowledge that governments are necessary and to fund them taxes must be levied. We also want those necessary evils to be as small as possible while intruding on liberties as little as necessary.
I remember the software engineering bro into libertarianism stereotype used to be stronger. Anyone who’s been around reddit long enough when it was a more tech focused website will remember when it had a huge hard on for Ron Paul. Back then it was like atheism, software engineering, smoking weed, libertarianism.
I only know a couple of libertarians left over. Yeah, one is really into smoking pot.
I'm surprised there are so many people saying they've never heard of the tech-libertarian stereotype. It must be a generational thing, because from the 80s through the Obama era, that association was very strong. It's true of early reddit as you say, but also Slashdot before it, and Usenet before that. But the majority were "small L" libertarians, the Libertarian Party has never been particularly successful.
From the Jargon File:
>Appendix B: A Portrait of J. Random Hacker
>This profile reflects detailed comments on an earlier ‘trial balloon’ version from about a hundred Usenet respondents.[…]
>Politics
>Vaguely liberal-moderate, except for the strong libertarian contingent which rejects conventional left-right politics entirely. The only safe generalization is that hackers tend to be rather anti-authoritarian; thus, both conventional conservatism and ‘hard’ leftism are rare. Hackers are far more likely than most non-hackers to either (a) be aggressively apolitical or (b) entertain peculiar or idiosyncratic political ideas and actually try to live by them day-to-day.
Libertarianism was my transition from Republican to Democrat in the late 90's/early 00's until they too went batshit insane with the Tea Party and such.
I was in a D.C. bar having a random conversation with a Democrat party apparatchik who rightly looked at me.like I was a pathetic loser when I told him I was a Libertarian. Looking back, I should have bought him a drink.
Yeah, reddit was big time into Ron Paul and Libertarianism at the time.
Ha yeah I remember the Ron Paul Revolution days.
It’s interesting how the Libertarian party is kind of a temporary refuge for disillusioned republicans. Pretty sure my dad voted for Gary Johnson in 2016 because he refused to vote for Trump but wasn’t ready to go full Democrat yet
It's roots were closer to libertarianism until the Kochs got ahold of it. Not that it's roots were any less crazy and racist than what it became, it was just less corporate-friendly at the start.
It's a transitional party, by and large, for people who are internalizing different political and economic theories.
In turn, that makes it sort of a thunder dome where you have to sort out where exactly you lie on the concept of positive and negative rights. Some people come from backgrounds that didn't focus enough on the social cost of positive rights and the party opens their eyes to it.
Other people grow up not really seeing the coercive elements that only negatives rights allow a society to have. Depends which way you're moving, but even then, most former Libertarians I know don't tend to be as extreme on most positions of their swapped parties.
Yeah it is a common trend among third parties that those with the ideology who are competent just join one of the big 2 and form a faction. Libertarian Republicans and Green Democrats and such. All that is left for the Third Party is the problem children who can't work with others.
Exactly. Our first-past-the-post system highly incentivises a 2-party system so the only people willing to stick it out in any 3rd party are on the political fringe.
By contrast, a left-wing organization like the DSA works within the 2-party system by focusing its efforts on getting their endorsed candidates to win primaries within the Democratic Party.
I've always wondered if a more serious Libertarian Party might have been able to sustain a substantial caucus within the Congressional GOP had they focused on that route rather than running as a separate party and getting demolished.
Yeah that's been my experience. Libertarian ideals and concepts are extremely popular in the US. The Libertarian party, not so much.
My theory is that Libertarianism is far too idealistic to work, because as soon as a policy is implemented, it doesn't always work in the real world.
So the Libertarian Party isn’t really all that popular and has historically been somewhere disaffected Republicans can go. The national party tends to be filled with kooks of various flavors who can’t agree on anything. It might be the 3rd most popular party but there isn’t a single elected Libertarian at the national level and very few in any of the states.
Some libertarian values have broad sympathy on both the left and/or the right but that almost never translates into votes for the party itself.
To answer your question, I’ve known a handful of people who vote libertarian as a protest vote in certain races. Usually when they despise both major party candidates but I’d never call them dyed in the wool libertarians.
They completely lost their last major party home with the democrats so they don't really have anywhere else to be.
Also isolationist is a bit overthrown around, it's not isolationist to be anti expansionist.
This is the right answer. The libertarian party and libertarians themselves are often not in agreement.
I voted libertarian in the 2016 and 2020 presidential races because fuck the candidates the major parties offered. I see no issue kicking the proverbial apple cart of terrible choices. It's mostly a protest vote but I did like Jo Jorgenson. I thought she did a good job considering.
I will vote libertarian in local or smaller elections as well depending on the race and the person. I think some libertarians are disaffected conservatives, I think some are the more anarchist bend(this is my camp) and I think some are just kinda crazy.
The one big boon I will give the libertarian ideology is that the dislike of police excess and legal immunity and property seizure they're known for most libertarians have been talking about since the 80s and 90s and just in the last few years people have really started to see for themselves just how bad police abuses against regular people truly are.
You'll be able to find a lot of libertarians. Unfortunately the libertarian party being niche leads to zealots within the party voting in people like vermin Supreme.
A good amount of libertarians will vote to reduce government power, trying to keep a party from controlling the House, Senate, and presidency.
I'm genuinely pro gun, pro choice, pro immigration, etc. But I want heavy controls over big business. You'll find a lot of variance in beliefs among libertarians because we don't have donor funded 24 hour news networks pumping propaganda out to brainwash people into falling in line with the party.
I've also wondered if Vermin Supreme is a political candidate or a performance artist. Either way, I find him terribly amusing, and while I'd never vote for him I'm always happy to see him running for something.
Libertarian as a principle is very common. The Libertarian party is mostly a protest vote.
Socialism is the same. A lot of people like some socialist ideas but there is no serious Socialist party.
>Libertarian as a principle is very common. The Libertarian party is mostly a protest vote.
Agreed. I'd consider myself libertarian to a degree but I would never, ever vote for the Libertarian Party. They got some f*ked up views like lowering the age of consent.
> Socialism is the same. A lot of people like some socialist ideas but there is no serious Socialist party.
I would say this one is a bit different, considering that socialists are running for offices in different ways. The largest active socialist platform is the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA). DemSoc candidates endorsed by DSA (some are even members of DSA) are generally running on the Democrat line.
Yeah, it's just completely different than that. We have permanently divided government. There is no "government" in the singular sense.
The president has his powers, which are real powers unlike many presidents in other countries which are mostly symbolic.
Congress has its powers but even it is divided. The House of Representatives has certain powers of its own and so does the Senate. One party can control the House while a different party controls the Senate. But for any law to become law it has to get approval of both the House and the Senate. And it can still be vetoed by the president. Also our elections are held every 2 years like clockwork. There's no such thing as forming a government or having an early election. People vote for members of the House (2 year terms) and Senate (6 year staggered terms) and President (4 year term) and that is our government. People serve until their terms are finished.
That's probably because you don't understand the Hungarian voting system. There's a lot more to it but here's the finer point I think:
91 seats are first past the post, like us. Then for the remaining seats, they all vote for a party, and so long as a party has over 5% of the vote, they have to get at least 1 member when the government "is formed." The party selects that member. If he came to America and voted Libertarian, saw that the party got over 5%, he'd be hella confused as to why there are 0 Libertarians taking office. Actually scratch that, he'd probably be hella confused when he see's a ballot with 0 parties on it and just names with (R) or (D) next to it.
You're right that I didn't know that, so thanks for learning me some, but that's not relevant to the question of how popular the Libertarian Party is, which is probably why people are glossing over that detail in general.
The American equivalent of forming a government is the election of the Speaker of the House and Senate Majority leader. Since the parties are essentially two permanently formed coalitions it's not usually very interesting and doesn't have the horse trading that follows parliamentary elections. Occasionally it does happen though, for example, the election of McCarthy and later Johnson as Republican speaker recently (and maybe Johnson again if MTG gets her way next week).
>Since the parties are essentially two permanently formed coalitions
I wish more people would frame US politics like this. The Dems and GOP are essentially 2 massive coalition parties who constantly have internal debates and have multiple factions in tension with each other. Each party is constantly trying to find wedge issues to fragment a part of the other's coalition away from them.
You see this diversity especially at the local and state levels where the individual factions within each party may be much more pronounced, though recently there's been a trend to nationalize everything.
> but they never got enough votes to form a government.
That's not how our elections or government works, at all.
> I'd personally vote Libertarian if I got US citizenship.
>
I'd hope you'd learn what that actually means first. Fortunately, [our path to citizenship covers civics.](https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/find-study-materials-and-resources/study-for-the-test)
> Here in Hungary, there is a stereotype that Libertarian views are the most popular among people in IT.
Where does this stereotype come from?
That's a fairly small group of people. Our tech sector is roughly 5m out of 330 million people...or about 1.5% of people in general. And that means that the sector is divided up into people who support 3 different parties....so even if the (L) voters were HALF of tech workers that's still less than 1% of Americans.
> does this stereotype exist there too that being into computers and technology is a sign of Libertarianism?
Not in my experience.
The party is not popular. They took less than 1% of the vote in my state's 2022 governor's race. A party who claims a central principal of less government and less organization has a really hard time with things like raising money and running a campaign. Why would I want these people running a government?
>Many people have libertarian ~~ideas~~ wishes
I always see reduced government interference in daily life wishes from libertarian candidates without actual plans for making it happen in a way that doesn't screw everyone but the super rich.
As a libertarian I'd never vote for the Libertarian Party, honestly.
Well, maybe depending on the specific person, but the party itself is fucking batshit.
I never get tired of watching people mischaracterize libertarianism based off of extremists and echo-chamber talking points though so that's neat.
>I never get tired of watching people mischaracterize libertarianism based off of extremist
In fairness to the rest of us, the party is too batshit for you to vote for, of course that's what us outsiders believe the party is.
I think party platforms are virtually meaningless, when what the leaders in the party promote is what would really happen if they were given power. That's who the party chose to elevate, that's what they really want.
GOP = Trump.
Dems = Biden. White bread white guy who had been in govt forever. Status quo at the core, with interesting forays into novel policies.
Libertarians= typically a candidate nobody has ever heard of who is unelectable.
Notably though, Jo Jorgensen had said her first action would be pardons of all non violent drug offenders in federal prison. Many if not all of those have now been pardoned by Joe Biden, who is also looking to recategorize marijuana. I'm interested to see how the Libertarian candidate deals with this issue in their platform.
That's not notable, that's something libertarian candidates have been promising for a long time. Jo Jorgenson was about as milquetoast of a candidate as the libertarians could have put forward, and a relic of a 90s presidential campaign to boot. IMO, neither the LP, the Greens, or the Constitution party put forth a real candidate with even the illusion of competing last time around because of how toxic Trump is.
Then the LP has trump come speak at their convention this year. It's absolutely nuts.
>That's not notable, that's something libertarian candidates have been promising for a long time.
No, I didn't mean it was notable on its own. Only that it was notable that this is now done. So I'm interested to see what goal replaces it.
Trump isn’t white bread nor has he been in government forever. I think he actually caught a lot of the general anti-status quo vote in 2016. Of course, I also think a lot of disaffected anti-status quo voters sort of were like the dog that caught the car when they actually got a guy who wanted to gut the American bureaucracy.
>Trump isn’t white bread nor has he been in government forever.
No. He isn't.
But that was my description of Biden, not Trump.
I didn't describe Trump. Nobody needs me to describe Trump.
Love him or hate him, all know already he was a radical departure from the past candidates, and that he now comes with a significant legacy.
[They took over a tiny town in New Hampshire once](https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/08/30/libertarians-took-control-of-this-small-town-it-didnt-end-well/), which then promptly had its first 2 murders in its history, and also got overrun with bears (which wasn’t an issue before either)
It wasn’t an election, a bunch of libertarians just planned it online and then moved in lmfao. Half of them didn’t live in NH before that. That poor town just got libertarianed 😔 I only mentioned it bc it’s really funny and the first thing I think abt when I hear “libertarians”.
Most of my friends and family didn’t even know what a libertarian is until they watched tiger king. More than one conservative I know said they intentionally stay as far away as possible because based on the name they assumed it was an offshoot of the democratic -liberal- party.
It’s so strange that liberal came to mean Democratic/progressive in the US. Elsewhere it means something more like the classical liberalism of Adam Smith and John Locke – free markets and small government, which would be Republican. See, for example, the Liberal party in Australia, which is the main conservative party.
I'm the closest thing to a Libertarian among my friends and family, even identifying as one for over ten years. Then I met some actual Libertarians and found that I am definitely not one. No, I've never voted for a Libertarian candidate.
There was a while where a lot of republicans I knew in college would describe themselves as “Republican/Libertarian” basically as a way of saying, “Yeah I voted for Romney, but in like, a smart guy way.” Never fooled anyone.
>Libertarian views are the most popular among people in IT.
What? No idea where that came from.
>How is it in the US, does this stereotype exist there too that being into computers and technology is a sign of Libertarianism?
No, not at all. The stereotype here is that libertarians are Republicans who like weed.
I know some libertarians. They're relatively popular in New Hampshire. I personally am not a fan. The core philosophy is basically "everyone is responsible for themselves so leave each other alone". This just isn't really compatible with a functioning society.
And in NH, Libertarians took over Grafton, resulting in a bear problem. Apparently the bears were Libertarians, too, and took advantage of the situation.
[https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling)
>What? No idea where that came from.
Well in Hungary's case, IT people are the most likely to be fluent in English, so have easy access to American media, and they tend to see Democrats as being the party which tries to make the USA become more like Europe or Canada with all of the downsides this will bring (high taxes, nanny state etc), and Republicans as being stuck in the past (strong religious views, folksy patriotism), while Libertarians are instead emphasizing the unique and advantageous qualities of America like the right to bear arms, unrestrained free speech, legal GMO, free-market capitalism, low taxes etc.
There is also a strong part of the Hungarian IT scene which emphasizes morphological freedom, meaning that people should have the right to do with their own bodies whatever they wish, be that taking drugs, self-genetic engineering with CRISPR, implanting cyborg implants, or having transgender HRT and surgery, and associate Libertarianism with this strong freedom of doing whatever you want with your body.
Libertarians don’t believe in any of that. They really don’t have any core “beliefs” because that would require an understanding of how government works and for that matter, how society works. They want the freedom to please themselves without having to consider violating the law, without any responsibilities placed on them by society.
> There is also a strong part of the Hungarian IT scene which emphasizes morphological freedom, meaning that people should have the right to do with their own bodies whatever they wish, be that taking drugs, self-genetic engineering with CRISPR, implanting cyborg implants, or having transgender HRT and surgery
These are not people I want in control of governing a society. This is so deeply unserious as part of a platform.
There's a good chance it is, as Orbán is economically left-wing and socially right-wing. We basically pay Swedish-level taxes for Cuban-quality social services.
It's not very popular overall.
Among my friends, we tend to think of them as hopelessly naïve people who believe in fairy tales about a neat and tidy version of humanity that cannot and does not exist.
The overwhelming majority of libertarians are white men because that's the population that has the privilege to look at the world and think "everything would be great if the government would just butt out of things and let markets decide everything." In my experience there is a lot of overlap between engineers and libertarians in the US, at least in part because the profession is heavily white and male.
There are many libertarians or those with libertarian views active in the Republican Party. I'm guessing because they see it is a greater likelihood of getting elected and instituting their policies.
But keep in mind our politics are far deeper than just a presidential race. There are factions of the GOP, and libertarianism is one of them. Hell, even the Democrats have a slice of libertarianism. Take New Hampshire, for example.
I see more and more people identifying as libertarian but voting as either democrat or republican. In the US third parties are kind of viewed as “can’t win” basically if you vote for an independent candidate it’s seen to some people as “wasting your vote” but for me it’s the only option since I dislike both candidates
I voted for them when I was fresh out of college in 2012, full of piss and vinegar and ready to take on the world.
I’m pretty far to the left these days, as are most of my friends. Most of my family is pretty far to the right. None of us vote libertarian as a general rule, although occasionally a candidate might pop up for a local office that makes sense.
Reddit is violently anti-libertarian, so this isn't the best place to find that information.
I'm a member of the LP - MI. Voted Johnson, then voted Biden to stop Trump because I, like Justin Amash, believe in the rule of law as essential to a functioning polity. I felt like Biden was at least a vote for rules over not-rules. I then voted for Big Gretch in Michigan because I couldn't take myself seriously voting for someone whose name rhymed with Tooter, and I just can't abide Trumpism. At least Democrats pay lip-service to the rule of law, and stable trustworthy institutions.
The Libertarian party itself is an unprofessional shitshow run by potheaded memelords, which is an embarassment compared to the slick professionalism corporate sponsored Democratic Party, and their completely out of touch with the common man intellectual superiority complex, and the mentally vacant highly cynical reality TV show that is the R Party.
I follow Spike Cohen on instagram, and he's as loony as he is required to be to maintain funding and standing within a party run by memelords, but also helps homeless people and shines a light on state overreach by advocating for people who are being abused by city and county level govenments, low level corruption that doesn't catch the news, etc. He's the only VP candidate to actually meet with Black Lives Matters, and we should respect him for that. Is he a stateman?
Nope. Joe Biden is a statesman. And that's why he can watch a bunch of Gazan kids die and go get some ice cream. Northrup Grumman will never allow Spike to sit in the Oval Office.
Last election shitsh...cycle, I belonged to a meme page for libertarians, and before your membership was approved you had to answer the question "Do Black Lives Matter?"
It really helped us differentiate between Authoritarian Republicans struggling through an off-year, and people who actually believe in letting other people make their own decisions, and restraining the power of the state to oppress anyone.
But we're politically irrelevant because all the real talent gravitates to Microsoft and Apple...errr...D and R. They have the money and branding to maintain their positions of privileged limp wristed mediocrity. They have Respectability and we don't, and they have the benefit of flexibility around their principles, and we don't. We will be forever irrelevant unless the average voter becomes suddenly interested in thoughtful research (they won't).
Shaka Senghor is an interesting dude. Wrote a book about his incarceration. When asked what his thoughts were politically, he said that you have to play your own game. Stay invested in your community.
I would add that you should build resilient, voluntary mutual aid networks. Don't wait for a big organization to come and help you - big organizations are usually just in it for the PR. Help your neighbors. Build bigger tables, Gleefully monkeywrench oppressive systems whenever possible. be resilient and self reliant and don't want for someone with a really nice suit to help when you can help yourself. And if it's your style, be ungovernable.
When Planned Parenthood was defunded by the administration, it was privately funded within weeks, and probably free-er to pursue its mission than when it had to answer to an agenda driven administration instead of its donors. That's peak libertarianism right there.
Okay I gotta get off my soapbox and go back to work.
The Libertarian party is a joke. The only reason any votes for the is as a protest vote. The only times I've voted for them was for president in 2016 or when there isn't a Democrat running in a local election.
I voted for the Libertarian candidate in 2016, Gary Johnson.
Before any Redditor bashes or blames me for things, note that my state, NJ, is solidly blue and is not a “battleground” state. My vote didn’t stop Hillary from winning NJ’s electoral votes and didn’t help Trump win either.
I may have voted differently if I felt my vote really meant something in 2016.
I voted for GJ too, and did it in PA. I wasn’t going to vote for Hillary, so my vote didn’t matter at all. I assumed that if Trump won, he’d just be extremely ineffective because no one would take him seriously. Boy was I wrong.
I don’t regret my vote, because I actually really liked Gary and I was involved with my local Libertarian Party. We practically all skewed more to the left and were more on the libertarian socialist wing, so when seemingly 90% of the state party went full Trump, it was time to go.
I don’t think I’ll ever vote anything but Democrat at this point. Too risky.
I won’t seriously consider voting for any Republicans at the national level again until all the MAGA apologists and enablers are gone. I can’t take them seriously and they really don’t want to govern. They just want to blow things up. Which is unfortunate because I don’t agree with all things Democrats do, but they seem like the only adults in the room right now.
I consider myself a Libertarian in the sense that the government is currently ridiculously overbearing and intrusive into it's citizens lives. It absolutely needs to stop and is largely responsible for the degradation of America as a whole.
Anyone affiliated with the Libertarian Party is just a Republican wearing yellow.
In college, one of my friends was a Libertarian and was almost exactly the opposite. He had a massively rosy, naïve view of human nature, in my opinion, and so believed that if the state would just leave us all alone, we'd take care of each other.
That seems to be a prevailing view. Lots of sheltered people never get to see a benefit of having a society. Ask them to describe a single time when a large social need was taken care of entirely by private charity.
1. The libertarian party is just not a major player. Its vote totals are miniscule, and the party organization is completely nuts. If you have libertarian views, it's unlikely you vote for this party.
2. Libertarian politics just aren't as salient in US politics as they are in much of central & eastern Europe. There was a significant faction of the GOP that catered to them, but the post-2016 GOP has basically purged them...most of them have therefore had to change their views (usually in a more nationalistic & conspiratorial direction) and/or their party preferences. By and large we're talking about people who now swing between the two major parties rather than voting for their own.
As for IT, not at all. Consistently out of the STEM fields, IT & Software Development lean heavily to the left, while engineers are about evenly divided.
My impression (coming from a large, politically liberal city) is that many self-proclaimed Libertarians are younger white men who know that identifying as a Republican is a surefire way to get the majority of women to swipe left.
As an actual poll worker, my real-life observation is that in each election about 10-12 of the 900+ registered voters in my precinct are registered Libertarians, and (without fail) they are always white men in their 20s and 30s, usually unmarried. They have good jobs (this is a fairly affluent neighborhood), no children in school, no partners needing reproductive care, no racial or religious affiliation with any historically disadvantaged group, and they themselves are young and healthy. Of course these guys want small government! Everything is going great for them.
To me, the funniest punctuation of this was when one guy got furious that he was still registered as an (L) and couldn’t vote in the Democratic primary (which largely determines mayor, city council, district attorney, etc.), and asked if he was being disenfranchised (no, he just never completed the registration). He swore he changed his affiliation to (D) about six months earlier… all while holding his infant daughter.
1. Not at all popular. Libertarians are often either pitied as naive or avoided as sociopaths.
2. I know of some people that protest voted for them, but almost no one that seriously wanted them to win.
3. You don't "form a government" here. We don't have a parliament. Coalition building is something that happens before the ballot box here, not after. This is why libertarians do not matter. By isolating themselves from the big two (which are both incredibly internally diverse), they keep themselves out of the massive fundraising engines they have and demonstrate that they can't play well with others.
4. IT and libertarians have a link, but not in the corporate world. I work in tech in a major hub, and I can't think of many coworkers who fit that bill these days. One of the few who did went off to found one of the largest crypto exchanges, and that man was undoubtedly a sociopath. I can't begin to describe the callous disregard he had for the well-being of others. He was libertarian because he didn't want the government to be able to stop his "fun." That's a common theme among tech libertarians from what I've seen: start at corporate, hate having to play nice with others, go off to found a startup where your assholery can be unfettered.
Most of my friends who were libertarians became Trump supporters or even hardcore right wing white nationalists (a little bit uncomfortable for me as a black guy). I am personally sympathetic to some libertarian beliefs such as a smaller less intrusive government and a government that leaves businesses alone for the most part. However, from my perspective libertarians are passionate about some of the strangest issues like legal prostitution, anti driver’s licenses, auditing the fed and so on. I just think they tend to be weirdos who can’t relate to other people very well and they are too dovish on foreign policy for me as well.
I've met plenty of people who say their libertarians, only one seemed to support the libertarian party. The guy is a bit of a nut and you really couldn't debate politics with him because somehow it'd devolve into him saying that we should kill poor people. The rest voted Republican, except this one guy who didn't vote at all. Also met one who tried to run for mayor, he unsurprisingly didn't win since he was a college student. Don't know anything about a stereotype about them being in IT, I've always heard that it was business majors in college, which does apply to the nut I mentioned earlier. Most of the self identified libertarians I met were from small towns who were a mix of farmers, roughnecks, and some other form of physical labourers. I didn't meet the business types until college.
The way the voting works here, voting third party is pointless or actively harmful.
I have known a couple of people who identified as Libertarian, but when general elections come around they vote for a Republican or a Democrat.
The party itself is not popular with people I know
I do know a lot of people who will have a streak of libertarianism here and there but wouldn’t vote for the party (beyond a protest vote against the two main candidates for say President)
The big L libertarian party is a complete joke. Not saying the ideology is, but the party as an entity purity tests itself and makes some dumbfounding decisions. [This meme sums it up to some extent](https://preview.redd.it/wpjlnk0xa1o61.jpg?width=558&auto=webp&s=a0d304ebb9f6fe3d0b25e1fb97446cca2e3a1ccd)
[And of course, the most popular Libertarian \(Big L\) L.... Licenses for vehicles.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ)
Libertarianism as an ideology is popular, the party is not.
People refuse to fight agaist a 2 party system.i hate the whole you gotta vote for one of these 2. Like if people grew some fucking balls and stopped playing follow the leader, we could actually cause some change.
My mom was a lifelong Republican who voted for Gary Johnson in 2016 because she fucking hates Donald Trump. I think the point of no return was Trump mocking Serge Kovaleski's disability.
Most of our tech people are either pro-cryptocurrency free-market libertarian bros or very far-left.
I’m libertarian and there is no end to the confusion people experience when I tell them that I don’t align with one of the two major parties.
My experience has been that many people are unaware of the party’s principles or they feel they are “throwing away their vote” if they don’t support a candidate from one of the other parties.
A Libertarian Walks Into a Bear: Author Matthew Hongoltz-Hetling on the Free State Project - Vox
[https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling]
This is my favorite story about the real life consequences of libertarian policy. I believe there was also an issue in a small New Hampshire town where only the Free Staters showed up to a public meeting and they did something crazy like abolishing the public school. The rest of the town found out the next morning when they woke up. I can't remember the exact details.
I'm a registered member, though in reality my ballot will be mostly Ds and Rs simply due to the lack of candidates. I've thought of deregistering because I hate the damn Mises Caucus, but I haven't gotten around to it.
The Libertarian Party has become a joke, honestly. It's filled with weirdos and edgelords who treat everything like it's all a big joke, but then can't understand why nobody takes them seriously.
I voted exclusively libertarian from the day I heard the horrifying phrase "Department of Homeland Security" until the day I heard the equally horrifying phrase "Basket of deplorables". Now I waver between R and L on federal offices, and drop a few strategic Ds at the state and local level (especially judgeships).
I respect that you are able to be flexible in your political orientation—I wish more people could be. But a vote for anyone other than Biden in this election might as well be a vote for Trump
The message you're replying to is specifically about voting FOR Trump. They voted Republican until Bush created DHS, then voted Libertarian until Hillary said her "deplorables" comment, when they switched back to Republican.
I did in my twenties, but then I started a family and had real bills to pay.
It ended up just being a stop on the journey from my Christian Republican upbringing to my leftist present.
LP was never particularly big. The movement as a whole was probably biggest during the Ron Paul congressional era. Even a lot of people with libertarian views end up splitting for one of the two major parties. If you care about guns, taxes and fiscal policy more, you might go for the Republican. If you care more about criminal justice reform, abortion, drug decriminalization, and social policies you might skew for the Democrats. I’m vastly oversimplifying. But by the time a lot of people get to the ballot box, they tick a D or R anyway - even if they identify as libertarian.
The other thing is that the LP has a big issue with their image. Their credibility isn’t exactly helped when they have naked people running around, a major candidate wearing a boot on his head, Twitter accounts posting Zelensky is Hitler nonsense, and debating whether the age of consent should exist…
While many people, myself included, share libertarian leanings. The party itself is a mess.
Not popular. Libertarians are mostly old white men because the only thing they have to worry about are taxes and gun laws. I have one uncle who pretends to be libertarian but is actually conservative, which is my stereotype of most libertarians.
Not very popular. It is very fringe. I basically have one friend who was a "Libertarian" in college (Ayn Rand and all) and he is a police officer now. I'm in my late 40s now but Id say I was a "libertarianish" from my late 30s to my mid 40s. Though I mostly voted Republican then. I think that is the case for many "Libertarians". My interest in "Libertarianism" basically coincided with my interest in Firearms . Most firearms dudes call themselves "Libertarians" but vote Republican. I'm still very much into 2nd amendment, but I don't consider myself "Libertarian" any more. I feel they are filled with conspiracy theorist and people who think they are smarter than everyone else. Also I feel that a "nativist" undercurrent has taken over. Plus I just couldn't get myself on board the "tax is theft" and "no government regulation on business" spiel. I still believe in personal freedom but there are way to many "authoritarians" parading around as Libertarians.
We don't necessarily form governments with confidence and supply and all that op. We also use first past the post voting or rank choice voting in some places, both of which are not that good and naturally lend to two dominant parties, so voting libertarian on the federal stage is kind of useless.
The Libertarian party appeals a lot to many of my family members. I come from a very conservative Catholic family that doesn’t like the Republican Party, so many people in my extended family consider themselves to align more with the Libertarian party than either of the two main parties.
Still, despite that almost none of them ever vote Libertarian.
Even when the libertarians have a candidate I like it would be a throw away vote in our voting system.
So I primary vote for the most libertarian leaning candidate in one of the big parties then vote between Dem// Rep.
Not at all. The only place I've ever encountered it was at work and well, I think that's just because they didn't want to self-identify as Republican. They engaged with all of the right leaning infotainers and all of their arguments were straight up just fox news/newsmax thrown back at me.
Many people that I know would identify as libertarian or libertarian leaning, but few actually vote for the libertarian party. It's the biggest third party, but still doesn't have a chance in hell of winning. Many either abstain from voting "in protest" (which is really just them trying to justify being lazy) or vote for the lesser of two evils. The Libertarian Party has difficulty attracting a good candidate because it's so small, but it's so small because it has difficulty attracting a good candidate.
>but they never got enough votes to form a government
We vote on individual people, not a party.
For example, a section of Virginia will vote for 1 of 3 people that happen to be members of those 3 parties, and whoever gets the most votes will go to congress to represent that district in Virginia.
The US has a bicameral congress as well, what I described above is the house and we also have a senate where electing them works the same way, but there district is the entire state of Virginia.
I am a small-l libertarian. I keep my ideas to myself. I know a few other libertarians, but talking to them about politics is pretty boring, because we agree about most of everything. I've never supported the Libertarian party.
You know that guy that always ends up at parties you and your friends arrange, but nobody knows who exactly invited him? The one always talking about conspiracy shit and how you don’t need a driver’s license to drive?
Yeah, that’s members of the Libertarian Party.
I know my girlfriend voted Libertarian in 2020, but I think the rest of my friends probably voted for either of the two major parties (for my Wyoming friends probably mostly Republicans).
>You're either a Democrat or a Republican.
How would you characterize someone who is pro-Capitalism, loves America, wants small government and loves guns, is pro-Israel in the Middle Eastern conflict, is anti-environmentalist if said environmentalism impedes human progress, and is sceptical of the overt Socialist policies of Canada and Europe, but is also fiercely pro-Choice, pro-LGBTQ, pro-Science, and is sceptical of religion.
Let’s see. The “loves America” thing is weird, and not something I would peg to one party or another despite some rhetoric.
In general I would say the person you describe is a Republican, unless they actually care enough about other people to vote Democratic. Your first set of priorities is what the government can do for you, or how it can get out of your way. The second set is how it can protect other people. Which is more important to you?
Realistically I think Ds are less likely to create a quasi-socialist state in which guns are banned than Rs are to criminalize abortion, strip protections from LGBTQ folks, or further erode Thomas Jefferson’s “wall of separation between church and state.”
I’ve got one acquaintance (calling them a friend is a stretch) who has embraced conspiracy theories, moved to the middle of nowhere and wants to live off the land without putting in the work, and has become a vocal libertarian party member but is generally too lazy to show up and vote, or even spend 1 minute online requesting a ballot by mail.
That’s hard to say. Libertarians are stealthy and secretive. They come off as Republicans or Democrats depending on the day or the crowd and you can’t really know unless you ask them outright, which I haven’t done, but I suspect that 2 or 3 people in my family are closet Libertarians.
These days most people that self-identify as libertarian align more with the republican party, they just don’t like calling themselves republicans. To be a libertarian is to be economically right wing and culturally left wing, but most American “libertarians” are economically AND culturally right wing.
* While it is the "3rd largest party", it is smaller than no party affiliation. there are only about 700,000 registered Libertarians across 28 states (and DC). Compared to D (48.5M), R (36.1M) and No Party affiliation (34.8M).
* We don't vote for parties and no party "forms a government", we vote for individuals. Those Individuals may be members of a party, independent of a party, or even change parties. Being a member of a party gives a candidate greater access to funding and an agreed upon platform (core values) from which to work, but does not determine absolute idology.
Libertarians, as a party, have a bit of an image issue here. Sometimes seen as disaffected republicans or Joe Rogan fanboys. It is hard to stand with a party that, in it's candidates, swing wildly from "lofty but impractical ideas" to batshit crazy "Sovereign Citizen" ideas. The [platform ](https://www.lp.org/platform/)is, for the most part, a logical and reasonable blend of left and right ideas. as u/InterPunct put it so well, it is often a transitional place form one party to the other.
Both of my brothers in law are in IT, and they view libertarians as [house cats](https://twitter.com/tomowenmorgan/status/1634892949853962240?lang=en).
My cousin's husband runs for state offices as a libertarian in Iowa periodically. Other than that, I don't know any people who specifically identify with that party.
I know someone, 'cause he is me. Many of my friends are libertarian, and we didn't meet through Libertarian (capital "L") events, just through normal activities.
None of us vote a Libertarian "straight ticket." This means we do vote for Dems and Repubs, depending.
No, there is no correlation between libertarianism and IT workers.
I have voted libertarian or green party in every presidential race since 1998, but otherwise mostly tend to vote Democrat.
Some, but not a lot of, people I know do the same thing.
I do this because I live in a deeply "red" state and so my vote for president isn't actually counted, so instead I use it to try and add to the popular vote count for third parties.
I don't care about who the candidate is or what their policy is, only that they are the top third party option.
I don’t know of anyone who is a member of or votes for the Libertarian party. Although I know a lot of people with a vaguely Libertarian worldview (socially liberal, pro-civil liberties/ free speech, prefers a small government, low taxes, and pro-capitalism). They are a mixed bag in terms of voting. Most vote Republican, although some vote for Democrats or don’t bother voting.
Libertarians aren’t on the ballot in most races. They always get someone in the presidential race, but I rarely see them or any third party in state or local races.
Most Libertarians in Indiana are just disaffected Republicans.
Several years ago Libertarian Party had a slate of candidates for state-wide office, including State Auditor but not State Treasurer.
In reviewing the election results, State Auditor with three candidates running (GOP, Dem, Libertarian) had nearly the same number of votes cast as State Treasurer (GOP, Dem), the difference being something minimal like seven or so.
My reading of that is that a few Libertarian voters didn't vote State Treasurer at all, but most of them went for one of the two major party candidates
And when you look at the break down of where those votes went, the Republican candidate for State Treasurer got two votes with no Libertarian candidate for every 1 vote the Dem candidate gained.
I have mostly libertarian friends, and the libertarian party is very unpopular among them. I think that many libertarians view the libertarian party as opposed to many of their ideas. I think I have only one friend who supports the libertarian party and I classify her more as a progressive than as a libertarian.
I seriously considered the Libertarian party last election. I looked at their website and concluded that their platform of reducing regulations for business conflicts with my opinion that too much political and financial power already goes to a handful of corporations in a de facto oligarchy. I am a strong believer that free markets elevate the poor, but free markets need boundary lines and referees to remain free. a game where one side owns the goal posts and the refs is a game that is rigged.
Neither major party seems interested in taking on the corporations head on, or protecting our personal freedoms consistently. I'll vote Dems because right now because they are less authoritarian than the GOP.
Casual libertarianism is sort of like the default ideology in the US. People that don't know anything about politics but passively pick things up from the culture are usually casual libertarians.
Most people don't self label libertarian though and most of them stop being libertarians in their teens after learning more about politics.
There is a minority of people that do self label libertarian into adulthood (and many of them are in IT! The stereotype is true that they are overrepresented, but honestly it's still maybe only ~25% as a high estimate.)
But even among libertarians, the official Libertarian party is a massive joke. I have known probably a dozen people that call themselves Libertarians and their opinion can be summarized as "those guys are morons that make us look bad." This was the case even before the Libertarian party debate where people were cheering some truly unhinged takes about driving licenses, but since those clips went viral I think it's widely known that they're dysfunctional.
I have quite a few libertarian friends and family members, maybe 20? I'd definitely consider myself more libertarian leaning. I vote republican but feel fed up and disgusted with the majority of Republicans in office, they are mainly neocons selling us out just like I feel the other side is.
I know a few people with sympathy to the LP but no one who actually voted for them. The problem is that Libertarians are such individualists that they have a hard time coming together to form a coherent movement. Ask 10 different Libertarians what Libertarianism is about you get 10 different answers. If you can’t get at least a general message out then your party will never be successful even if fptp wasn’t an issue.
First of all, I need to make a distinction between the big-L Libertarians (the party members) and the little-L libertarians (people who believe in the philosophy).
The problem with the party right now is that it has been taken over the Mises Caucus. Mises Caucus was upset with the party because they claim the party was too aligned with Democrats, so the Mises Caucus has aligned them more with Republicans. In this period, that means a lot of annoying "culture wars" BS. That kind of thing combined with some ... cultural attitudes of the Caucus (e.g. acting more like edgelords), makes the party distasteful for a lot of libertarians. And there has been a big exit from the party thanks to that.
Now, that party itself is not very popular and it never was. Little-L libertarian ideas OTOH have always had a wide base of support. This has never translated into broad political support, but libertarians have always been around, and they have always influenced things. In a parliamentary system, you can imagine them as that party that has a broad enough set of ideals that they can form a government with pretty much anyone as long as a few concessions are made.
We have varying respect as well as caution for them.
Libertarians intend to make the government as uninvolved as possible, which can be good or bad depending on how far it goes
My take on the association between IT types and libertarianism is that most IT folks are successful, between middle-class up to wealthy, but few come from "old money". They tend to work with and socialize with other people who never seem to be wanting for job opportunities. So they tend to disassociate with people who occasionally need government assistance. Many of them either notice that others are suffering at some point, or after they go through a couple of economic downturns, or extremely shitty presidents, they start to realize that there is a definite role for institutions in the system.
A lot of IT folks are hyper-individualistic because they can be. After a while that softens. Most of the libertarians I have known over the years are more like what people call Neoliberals now, myself included. A couple have become straight-up right-wing Republicans but those were always the ones who were dickheads to begin with. That is just my experience though.
I'm married to a software developer who's pretty close to Democratic socialist. A lot of the IT folks I know have a libertarian bent in the "live free and die" sense but not actual Libertarian Party ideas sense.
Libertarians in America are somewhat of a "joke" to most folks. Typically support of them is relegated to those that are considered "out of touch" or "uneducated". For example, I work in IT and the only two people I know that legit would vote Libertarian are someone that I know is poor and lives in the sticks and works with taxidermy and art, and a guy that is just... consistently "on the fringe" of our friend groups and interactions but is otherwise pretty unremarkable.
The reason I think that Libertarians are not given much credit is because the ones that people keep putting forth as "omg if everyone just voted for this person we could break out of the 2 party system" is like, some washed up, unsuccessful politician with a poor track record of success and really fringe ideas and policies that aren't realistic, but they sure are romantic.
I am hardcore libertarian and no it is not very popular over all as this is a two party state with huge umbrellas to encompass as much as possible to keep a two party only choice.
People buy into the two party only because it was that way when they grew up and their parents or mentors believed in it and had instilled in them any other vote was a waste.
Since we only have 2 parties has made it where only class warfare is possible to keep the status quo going so this is where we get the sheep follower designations from as the electorate is fed how and what to think by the media and the media is an extension of the two party system.
The only time we have ever had meaningful changes is when we have got a temporary third party come around and disrupt the status quo enough to where one of the two parties will usurp the ideas. This is how the green party was taken over by the democratic party.
I don't know anyone who votes Libertarian (to my knowledge). I know people who like the surface idea of it, but they're critical of how it would work in practice.
And I wouldn't say being into tech here signals that someone is a Libertarian, but if a tech bro said he was a Libertarian, I wouldn't be surprised either.
When my friends and I were twentysomething young men who read Ayn Rand fantasies in the late 1980s or early 1990s, the Libertarian Party was popular among us.
No one I know who is 30 or over takes them the least bit seriously. At an adult age affiliating with the LP is a sign of arrested development, like still wearing a high school letter jacket.
They do occasionally get protest votes. The last time I voted for an LP candidate was a county level office 20 years ago where members of one party infiltrated the other, captured the nomination, then had their own party’s candidate drop out leaving only the Trojan horse and the LP guy on the ballot. That’s the kind of scenario that justifies an LP vote.
We have several Libertarian friends. They hate the government getting involved... but tend to have zero solutions. One friend was against car registration fees, which as we all know goes toward the upkeep of roads and highways. His solution was when we need a road repaired, people will just donate to the cause. (insert eyeroll) Another friend hates government groups like the EPA and FDA. Yikes. I like knowing my food and water are safe.
Libertarian ideas as far as social issues go are pretty popular in America and among my circles. The Libertarian Party and their economic ideas are not particularly popular, I don't know anyone that's ever openly told me they voted for their candidate
I happen to know quite a few. Few of them were involved with various Libertarian organizations in neighboring states, I work with quite a few people who consider themselves Libertarian, and my brother-in-law either was or is but he might be full AnCap now. I considered myself one at some point but I've also considered myself both a Democrat and Republican at different points. The LP is being co-opted by the GOP now so quite a few of the people I mentioned no longer have any affiliation with the party, myself included. Now a Libertarian is just a Republican who smokes weed.
I should note that I work in politics so I'm going to know a disproportionate amount of Libertarians, you run into them no matter which party you work with.
Not popular, but it seems to be a phase most STEM guys go through in their 20s, kind of like how a lot of humanities students go through a socialism/communism stage in college.
I live in San Francisco (so, very tech-heavy city) and it’s to the point where I’ve made jokes about my 20-something cousins being “in their libertarian phase” to my 30-something friends and everyone just laughs and nods and reminisces.
My 20-something cousins are self-described libertarians right now. They’re smart, sweet kids, and I love them like little brothers (I lived with my aunt and uncle for a year), but I would describe them as pretty out of touch with the real world.
Their dad is a hedge fund manager and their mom was a corporate attorney before she quit to be a stay-at-home mom because the dad’s income rose to $5-10 million per year.
So, my cousins went to college and are very smart, but they are ultimately trust fund kids who are also very dependent on their helicopter mom to run their lives for them.
I regularly vote for them. That said, it's a candidate by candidate basis. The issue that is most important for me currently is gun rights. So clearly the Democrat vote is out. And the Republican train ran off thr tracks some time ago. So I vote libertarian.
Libertarianism is more popular as a philosophy than as a political movement. That said, the two major parties have a chokehold on US politics, to the point that they control even what the mainstream media covers, regarding Libertarian Party accomplishments or involvement. Examples include
* The presidential candidate debates are controlled by the Democratic and Republican parties, not an objective, government-controlled body, as most Americans are led to believe. They make their own rules for who may or may not participate, and frequently change and update rules to arbitrarily exclude third party challengers. These debates are the primary opportunities for voters to learn about candidates, and exclusion is a political death sentence.
* Funding for presidential candidate campaigns comes in part from the federal government, itself. To qualify for campaign funding, however, a political party must have received a minimum 5% of the popular vote in the previous election cycle (if I recall correctly, but this might have changed in recent years). The fact that the Libertarian Party has not quite reached that 5% threshold means that they don't receive the millions in taxpayer advertising to even notify the voters of candidate options, much less present their arguments. In fact, until I spent some time volunteering for the Libertarian Party, I never realized how significant a portion of the voting population **isn't aware the Libertarian Party exists**.
This subreddit is for civil discussion; political threads are not exempt from this. As a reminder: * Do not report comments because they disagree with your point of view. * Do not insult other users. Personal attacks are not permitted. * Do not use hate speech. You will be banned, permanently. * Comments made with the intent to push an agenda, push misinformation, soapbox, sealion, or argue in bad faith are not acceptable. If you can’t discuss a topic in good faith and in a respectful manner, do not comment. **Political disagreement does not constitute pushing an agenda.** If you see any comments that violate the rules, **please report it and move on!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskAnAmerican) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not at all popular. I know a couple people who vote libertarian but they're few and far between.
I have friends and family sympathetic to a lot of their political positions. They don’t vote for them because they know they have very little chance of winning and they want to support the candidate closest to their beliefs that has a chance of winning.
Most of the “libertarians” I’ve met vote republican, but use the libertarian title they don’t take heat for voting for the guy with archaic social political beliefs.
I’ve seen both in my life. The hardcore libertarians who truly drank the kool aid and more socially liberal republicans who just want more socially liberal policies and less federal government in their lives.
Same. Libertarianism provides a useful critique for big government, which can overreach if unchallenged. But there are too many necessary things that can only be done well by society acting collectively for unregulated liberty to work in the real world.
Libertarians in America don’t typically advocate for a complete lack of government, that would be anarcho-capitalist. The goal of the libertarian party has basically been keep government as small as is feasible.
Arguing over the proper size of government is always a debate worth having. I respect the viewpoint of anyone who doesn't say that all taxation is theft or that all property is theft.
The Libertarian Party had a debate as to whether driver's licenses were necessary and the side arguing for necessity lost. The LP can't be taken seriously.
I identify as a libertarian and have friends who do, one of which ran for local government. We're often painted as anarcho-capitilists who want the world to run like Rapture in bioshock lol. In general you're correct though. We acknowledge that governments are necessary and to fund them taxes must be levied. We also want those necessary evils to be as small as possible while intruding on liberties as little as necessary.
You miss the libertarians booing their candidate for saying it should be illegal to sell heroin to children?
We’re in Michigan, all the libertarians I knew prior to 2016 are hardcore MAGA now lol
I remember the software engineering bro into libertarianism stereotype used to be stronger. Anyone who’s been around reddit long enough when it was a more tech focused website will remember when it had a huge hard on for Ron Paul. Back then it was like atheism, software engineering, smoking weed, libertarianism. I only know a couple of libertarians left over. Yeah, one is really into smoking pot.
I'm surprised there are so many people saying they've never heard of the tech-libertarian stereotype. It must be a generational thing, because from the 80s through the Obama era, that association was very strong. It's true of early reddit as you say, but also Slashdot before it, and Usenet before that. But the majority were "small L" libertarians, the Libertarian Party has never been particularly successful.
It's a legacy of the Bush Era. Young people hated Bush and were trying to co-opt the party to be less fucking insane. It...uh...didn't work.
From the Jargon File: >Appendix B: A Portrait of J. Random Hacker >This profile reflects detailed comments on an earlier ‘trial balloon’ version from about a hundred Usenet respondents.[…] >Politics >Vaguely liberal-moderate, except for the strong libertarian contingent which rejects conventional left-right politics entirely. The only safe generalization is that hackers tend to be rather anti-authoritarian; thus, both conventional conservatism and ‘hard’ leftism are rare. Hackers are far more likely than most non-hackers to either (a) be aggressively apolitical or (b) entertain peculiar or idiosyncratic political ideas and actually try to live by them day-to-day.
> but also Slashdot before it, and Usenet before that. Fark as well.
I miss fark.
Makes sense for early reddit. The site was founded by a starch libertarian.
> a starch libertarian. From Idaho, by any chance?
I'll leave the typo because funny. I like the idea of Reddit being founded by a potato lol.
Libertarianism was my transition from Republican to Democrat in the late 90's/early 00's until they too went batshit insane with the Tea Party and such. I was in a D.C. bar having a random conversation with a Democrat party apparatchik who rightly looked at me.like I was a pathetic loser when I told him I was a Libertarian. Looking back, I should have bought him a drink. Yeah, reddit was big time into Ron Paul and Libertarianism at the time.
Ha yeah I remember the Ron Paul Revolution days. It’s interesting how the Libertarian party is kind of a temporary refuge for disillusioned republicans. Pretty sure my dad voted for Gary Johnson in 2016 because he refused to vote for Trump but wasn’t ready to go full Democrat yet
The tea party was Republican, not libertarian.
It's roots were closer to libertarianism until the Kochs got ahold of it. Not that it's roots were any less crazy and racist than what it became, it was just less corporate-friendly at the start.
Libertarianism actually transitioned me from liberal to conservative. Interesting.
It's a transitional party, by and large, for people who are internalizing different political and economic theories. In turn, that makes it sort of a thunder dome where you have to sort out where exactly you lie on the concept of positive and negative rights. Some people come from backgrounds that didn't focus enough on the social cost of positive rights and the party opens their eyes to it. Other people grow up not really seeing the coercive elements that only negatives rights allow a society to have. Depends which way you're moving, but even then, most former Libertarians I know don't tend to be as extreme on most positions of their swapped parties.
It goes all sorts of ways. Trumps election changed a lot, for better or worse.
Even most libertarians think the so-called "Libertarian Party" is batshit.
Yeah it is a common trend among third parties that those with the ideology who are competent just join one of the big 2 and form a faction. Libertarian Republicans and Green Democrats and such. All that is left for the Third Party is the problem children who can't work with others.
Exactly. Our first-past-the-post system highly incentivises a 2-party system so the only people willing to stick it out in any 3rd party are on the political fringe. By contrast, a left-wing organization like the DSA works within the 2-party system by focusing its efforts on getting their endorsed candidates to win primaries within the Democratic Party. I've always wondered if a more serious Libertarian Party might have been able to sustain a substantial caucus within the Congressional GOP had they focused on that route rather than running as a separate party and getting demolished.
Nobody hates libertarians more than other libertarians.
Yeah that's been my experience. Libertarian ideals and concepts are extremely popular in the US. The Libertarian party, not so much. My theory is that Libertarianism is far too idealistic to work, because as soon as a policy is implemented, it doesn't always work in the real world.
So the Libertarian Party isn’t really all that popular and has historically been somewhere disaffected Republicans can go. The national party tends to be filled with kooks of various flavors who can’t agree on anything. It might be the 3rd most popular party but there isn’t a single elected Libertarian at the national level and very few in any of the states. Some libertarian values have broad sympathy on both the left and/or the right but that almost never translates into votes for the party itself. To answer your question, I’ve known a handful of people who vote libertarian as a protest vote in certain races. Usually when they despise both major party candidates but I’d never call them dyed in the wool libertarians.
[удалено]
I've noticed the anti-war / isolationist crowd has moved libertarian in the last couple years.
They completely lost their last major party home with the democrats so they don't really have anywhere else to be. Also isolationist is a bit overthrown around, it's not isolationist to be anti expansionist.
This is the right answer. The libertarian party and libertarians themselves are often not in agreement. I voted libertarian in the 2016 and 2020 presidential races because fuck the candidates the major parties offered. I see no issue kicking the proverbial apple cart of terrible choices. It's mostly a protest vote but I did like Jo Jorgenson. I thought she did a good job considering. I will vote libertarian in local or smaller elections as well depending on the race and the person. I think some libertarians are disaffected conservatives, I think some are the more anarchist bend(this is my camp) and I think some are just kinda crazy. The one big boon I will give the libertarian ideology is that the dislike of police excess and legal immunity and property seizure they're known for most libertarians have been talking about since the 80s and 90s and just in the last few years people have really started to see for themselves just how bad police abuses against regular people truly are.
You'll be able to find a lot of libertarians. Unfortunately the libertarian party being niche leads to zealots within the party voting in people like vermin Supreme. A good amount of libertarians will vote to reduce government power, trying to keep a party from controlling the House, Senate, and presidency. I'm genuinely pro gun, pro choice, pro immigration, etc. But I want heavy controls over big business. You'll find a lot of variance in beliefs among libertarians because we don't have donor funded 24 hour news networks pumping propaganda out to brainwash people into falling in line with the party.
I've also wondered if Vermin Supreme is a political candidate or a performance artist. Either way, I find him terribly amusing, and while I'd never vote for him I'm always happy to see him running for something.
Libertarian as a principle is very common. The Libertarian party is mostly a protest vote. Socialism is the same. A lot of people like some socialist ideas but there is no serious Socialist party.
>Libertarian as a principle is very common. The Libertarian party is mostly a protest vote. Agreed. I'd consider myself libertarian to a degree but I would never, ever vote for the Libertarian Party. They got some f*ked up views like lowering the age of consent. > Socialism is the same. A lot of people like some socialist ideas but there is no serious Socialist party. I would say this one is a bit different, considering that socialists are running for offices in different ways. The largest active socialist platform is the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA). DemSoc candidates endorsed by DSA (some are even members of DSA) are generally running on the Democrat line.
You don’t “form a government” here.
Yeah, it's just completely different than that. We have permanently divided government. There is no "government" in the singular sense. The president has his powers, which are real powers unlike many presidents in other countries which are mostly symbolic. Congress has its powers but even it is divided. The House of Representatives has certain powers of its own and so does the Senate. One party can control the House while a different party controls the Senate. But for any law to become law it has to get approval of both the House and the Senate. And it can still be vetoed by the president. Also our elections are held every 2 years like clockwork. There's no such thing as forming a government or having an early election. People vote for members of the House (2 year terms) and Senate (6 year staggered terms) and President (4 year term) and that is our government. People serve until their terms are finished.
That was a sentence OP put in that went largely unnoticed. I don't think they fundamentally understand our voting system.
Yeah, I was surprised that there were so many comments already and no one responded to that.
Probably cuz it's not largely relevant to the actual question I'd wager
That's probably because you don't understand the Hungarian voting system. There's a lot more to it but here's the finer point I think: 91 seats are first past the post, like us. Then for the remaining seats, they all vote for a party, and so long as a party has over 5% of the vote, they have to get at least 1 member when the government "is formed." The party selects that member. If he came to America and voted Libertarian, saw that the party got over 5%, he'd be hella confused as to why there are 0 Libertarians taking office. Actually scratch that, he'd probably be hella confused when he see's a ballot with 0 parties on it and just names with (R) or (D) next to it.
You're right that I didn't know that, so thanks for learning me some, but that's not relevant to the question of how popular the Libertarian Party is, which is probably why people are glossing over that detail in general.
That's fair. I always forget whatever the title question is when the additional comments paint a different picture.
The American equivalent of forming a government is the election of the Speaker of the House and Senate Majority leader. Since the parties are essentially two permanently formed coalitions it's not usually very interesting and doesn't have the horse trading that follows parliamentary elections. Occasionally it does happen though, for example, the election of McCarthy and later Johnson as Republican speaker recently (and maybe Johnson again if MTG gets her way next week).
>Since the parties are essentially two permanently formed coalitions I wish more people would frame US politics like this. The Dems and GOP are essentially 2 massive coalition parties who constantly have internal debates and have multiple factions in tension with each other. Each party is constantly trying to find wedge issues to fragment a part of the other's coalition away from them. You see this diversity especially at the local and state levels where the individual factions within each party may be much more pronounced, though recently there's been a trend to nationalize everything.
> but they never got enough votes to form a government. That's not how our elections or government works, at all. > I'd personally vote Libertarian if I got US citizenship. > I'd hope you'd learn what that actually means first. Fortunately, [our path to citizenship covers civics.](https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/find-study-materials-and-resources/study-for-the-test) > Here in Hungary, there is a stereotype that Libertarian views are the most popular among people in IT. Where does this stereotype come from? That's a fairly small group of people. Our tech sector is roughly 5m out of 330 million people...or about 1.5% of people in general. And that means that the sector is divided up into people who support 3 different parties....so even if the (L) voters were HALF of tech workers that's still less than 1% of Americans. > does this stereotype exist there too that being into computers and technology is a sign of Libertarianism? Not in my experience. The party is not popular. They took less than 1% of the vote in my state's 2022 governor's race. A party who claims a central principal of less government and less organization has a really hard time with things like raising money and running a campaign. Why would I want these people running a government?
Many people have libertarian ideas, few people actually vote for the party
>Many people have libertarian ~~ideas~~ wishes I always see reduced government interference in daily life wishes from libertarian candidates without actual plans for making it happen in a way that doesn't screw everyone but the super rich.
As a libertarian I'd never vote for the Libertarian Party, honestly. Well, maybe depending on the specific person, but the party itself is fucking batshit. I never get tired of watching people mischaracterize libertarianism based off of extremists and echo-chamber talking points though so that's neat.
>I never get tired of watching people mischaracterize libertarianism based off of extremist In fairness to the rest of us, the party is too batshit for you to vote for, of course that's what us outsiders believe the party is. I think party platforms are virtually meaningless, when what the leaders in the party promote is what would really happen if they were given power. That's who the party chose to elevate, that's what they really want. GOP = Trump. Dems = Biden. White bread white guy who had been in govt forever. Status quo at the core, with interesting forays into novel policies. Libertarians= typically a candidate nobody has ever heard of who is unelectable. Notably though, Jo Jorgensen had said her first action would be pardons of all non violent drug offenders in federal prison. Many if not all of those have now been pardoned by Joe Biden, who is also looking to recategorize marijuana. I'm interested to see how the Libertarian candidate deals with this issue in their platform.
That's not notable, that's something libertarian candidates have been promising for a long time. Jo Jorgenson was about as milquetoast of a candidate as the libertarians could have put forward, and a relic of a 90s presidential campaign to boot. IMO, neither the LP, the Greens, or the Constitution party put forth a real candidate with even the illusion of competing last time around because of how toxic Trump is. Then the LP has trump come speak at their convention this year. It's absolutely nuts.
>That's not notable, that's something libertarian candidates have been promising for a long time. No, I didn't mean it was notable on its own. Only that it was notable that this is now done. So I'm interested to see what goal replaces it.
> Then the LP has trump come speak at their convention this year. They invited Biden and RFK Jr as well.
Trump isn’t white bread nor has he been in government forever. I think he actually caught a lot of the general anti-status quo vote in 2016. Of course, I also think a lot of disaffected anti-status quo voters sort of were like the dog that caught the car when they actually got a guy who wanted to gut the American bureaucracy.
>Trump isn’t white bread nor has he been in government forever. No. He isn't. But that was my description of Biden, not Trump. I didn't describe Trump. Nobody needs me to describe Trump. Love him or hate him, all know already he was a radical departure from the past candidates, and that he now comes with a significant legacy.
Fucking agreed. The party has been fucked by the Mises Caucus.
Only weird dudes that wear badly fitted suits and a yellow tie.
[They took over a tiny town in New Hampshire once](https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/08/30/libertarians-took-control-of-this-small-town-it-didnt-end-well/), which then promptly had its first 2 murders in its history, and also got overrun with bears (which wasn’t an issue before either)
Getting overrun with bears after an election is some sort of Biblical punishment
It wasn’t an election, a bunch of libertarians just planned it online and then moved in lmfao. Half of them didn’t live in NH before that. That poor town just got libertarianed 😔 I only mentioned it bc it’s really funny and the first thing I think abt when I hear “libertarians”.
Most of my friends and family didn’t even know what a libertarian is until they watched tiger king. More than one conservative I know said they intentionally stay as far away as possible because based on the name they assumed it was an offshoot of the democratic -liberal- party.
It’s so strange that liberal came to mean Democratic/progressive in the US. Elsewhere it means something more like the classical liberalism of Adam Smith and John Locke – free markets and small government, which would be Republican. See, for example, the Liberal party in Australia, which is the main conservative party.
I'm the closest thing to a Libertarian among my friends and family, even identifying as one for over ten years. Then I met some actual Libertarians and found that I am definitely not one. No, I've never voted for a Libertarian candidate.
There was a while where a lot of republicans I knew in college would describe themselves as “Republican/Libertarian” basically as a way of saying, “Yeah I voted for Romney, but in like, a smart guy way.” Never fooled anyone.
>Libertarian views are the most popular among people in IT. What? No idea where that came from. >How is it in the US, does this stereotype exist there too that being into computers and technology is a sign of Libertarianism? No, not at all. The stereotype here is that libertarians are Republicans who like weed. I know some libertarians. They're relatively popular in New Hampshire. I personally am not a fan. The core philosophy is basically "everyone is responsible for themselves so leave each other alone". This just isn't really compatible with a functioning society.
And in NH, Libertarians took over Grafton, resulting in a bear problem. Apparently the bears were Libertarians, too, and took advantage of the situation. [https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling)
My roommate in college was a big libertarian who constantly talked about his political views. He later became chair of the county Republican Party.
>What? No idea where that came from. Well in Hungary's case, IT people are the most likely to be fluent in English, so have easy access to American media, and they tend to see Democrats as being the party which tries to make the USA become more like Europe or Canada with all of the downsides this will bring (high taxes, nanny state etc), and Republicans as being stuck in the past (strong religious views, folksy patriotism), while Libertarians are instead emphasizing the unique and advantageous qualities of America like the right to bear arms, unrestrained free speech, legal GMO, free-market capitalism, low taxes etc. There is also a strong part of the Hungarian IT scene which emphasizes morphological freedom, meaning that people should have the right to do with their own bodies whatever they wish, be that taking drugs, self-genetic engineering with CRISPR, implanting cyborg implants, or having transgender HRT and surgery, and associate Libertarianism with this strong freedom of doing whatever you want with your body.
Libertarians don’t believe in any of that. They really don’t have any core “beliefs” because that would require an understanding of how government works and for that matter, how society works. They want the freedom to please themselves without having to consider violating the law, without any responsibilities placed on them by society.
> There is also a strong part of the Hungarian IT scene which emphasizes morphological freedom, meaning that people should have the right to do with their own bodies whatever they wish, be that taking drugs, self-genetic engineering with CRISPR, implanting cyborg implants, or having transgender HRT and surgery These are not people I want in control of governing a society. This is so deeply unserious as part of a platform.
I wonder if the presence of Vicky Orban is the reason for these views
There's a good chance it is, as Orbán is economically left-wing and socially right-wing. We basically pay Swedish-level taxes for Cuban-quality social services.
Republicans who like weed and hate age of consent laws.
It's not very popular overall. Among my friends, we tend to think of them as hopelessly naïve people who believe in fairy tales about a neat and tidy version of humanity that cannot and does not exist. The overwhelming majority of libertarians are white men because that's the population that has the privilege to look at the world and think "everything would be great if the government would just butt out of things and let markets decide everything." In my experience there is a lot of overlap between engineers and libertarians in the US, at least in part because the profession is heavily white and male.
There are many libertarians or those with libertarian views active in the Republican Party. I'm guessing because they see it is a greater likelihood of getting elected and instituting their policies. But keep in mind our politics are far deeper than just a presidential race. There are factions of the GOP, and libertarianism is one of them. Hell, even the Democrats have a slice of libertarianism. Take New Hampshire, for example.
I see more and more people identifying as libertarian but voting as either democrat or republican. In the US third parties are kind of viewed as “can’t win” basically if you vote for an independent candidate it’s seen to some people as “wasting your vote” but for me it’s the only option since I dislike both candidates
I voted for them when I was fresh out of college in 2012, full of piss and vinegar and ready to take on the world. I’m pretty far to the left these days, as are most of my friends. Most of my family is pretty far to the right. None of us vote libertarian as a general rule, although occasionally a candidate might pop up for a local office that makes sense.
Not at all.
It was more popular, but many people claiming to be libertarians went bat shit crazy and seem to support anti-libertatian policies.
It's not popular at all. People I know that once claimed to be Libertarian are now just Republicans.
Reddit is violently anti-libertarian, so this isn't the best place to find that information. I'm a member of the LP - MI. Voted Johnson, then voted Biden to stop Trump because I, like Justin Amash, believe in the rule of law as essential to a functioning polity. I felt like Biden was at least a vote for rules over not-rules. I then voted for Big Gretch in Michigan because I couldn't take myself seriously voting for someone whose name rhymed with Tooter, and I just can't abide Trumpism. At least Democrats pay lip-service to the rule of law, and stable trustworthy institutions. The Libertarian party itself is an unprofessional shitshow run by potheaded memelords, which is an embarassment compared to the slick professionalism corporate sponsored Democratic Party, and their completely out of touch with the common man intellectual superiority complex, and the mentally vacant highly cynical reality TV show that is the R Party. I follow Spike Cohen on instagram, and he's as loony as he is required to be to maintain funding and standing within a party run by memelords, but also helps homeless people and shines a light on state overreach by advocating for people who are being abused by city and county level govenments, low level corruption that doesn't catch the news, etc. He's the only VP candidate to actually meet with Black Lives Matters, and we should respect him for that. Is he a stateman? Nope. Joe Biden is a statesman. And that's why he can watch a bunch of Gazan kids die and go get some ice cream. Northrup Grumman will never allow Spike to sit in the Oval Office. Last election shitsh...cycle, I belonged to a meme page for libertarians, and before your membership was approved you had to answer the question "Do Black Lives Matter?" It really helped us differentiate between Authoritarian Republicans struggling through an off-year, and people who actually believe in letting other people make their own decisions, and restraining the power of the state to oppress anyone. But we're politically irrelevant because all the real talent gravitates to Microsoft and Apple...errr...D and R. They have the money and branding to maintain their positions of privileged limp wristed mediocrity. They have Respectability and we don't, and they have the benefit of flexibility around their principles, and we don't. We will be forever irrelevant unless the average voter becomes suddenly interested in thoughtful research (they won't). Shaka Senghor is an interesting dude. Wrote a book about his incarceration. When asked what his thoughts were politically, he said that you have to play your own game. Stay invested in your community. I would add that you should build resilient, voluntary mutual aid networks. Don't wait for a big organization to come and help you - big organizations are usually just in it for the PR. Help your neighbors. Build bigger tables, Gleefully monkeywrench oppressive systems whenever possible. be resilient and self reliant and don't want for someone with a really nice suit to help when you can help yourself. And if it's your style, be ungovernable. When Planned Parenthood was defunded by the administration, it was privately funded within weeks, and probably free-er to pursue its mission than when it had to answer to an agenda driven administration instead of its donors. That's peak libertarianism right there. Okay I gotta get off my soapbox and go back to work.
The Libertarian party is a joke. The only reason any votes for the is as a protest vote. The only times I've voted for them was for president in 2016 or when there isn't a Democrat running in a local election.
I voted for the Libertarian candidate in 2016, Gary Johnson. Before any Redditor bashes or blames me for things, note that my state, NJ, is solidly blue and is not a “battleground” state. My vote didn’t stop Hillary from winning NJ’s electoral votes and didn’t help Trump win either. I may have voted differently if I felt my vote really meant something in 2016.
I voted for GJ too, and did it in PA. I wasn’t going to vote for Hillary, so my vote didn’t matter at all. I assumed that if Trump won, he’d just be extremely ineffective because no one would take him seriously. Boy was I wrong. I don’t regret my vote, because I actually really liked Gary and I was involved with my local Libertarian Party. We practically all skewed more to the left and were more on the libertarian socialist wing, so when seemingly 90% of the state party went full Trump, it was time to go. I don’t think I’ll ever vote anything but Democrat at this point. Too risky.
I won’t seriously consider voting for any Republicans at the national level again until all the MAGA apologists and enablers are gone. I can’t take them seriously and they really don’t want to govern. They just want to blow things up. Which is unfortunate because I don’t agree with all things Democrats do, but they seem like the only adults in the room right now.
Me too! High five!
I consider myself a Libertarian in the sense that the government is currently ridiculously overbearing and intrusive into it's citizens lives. It absolutely needs to stop and is largely responsible for the degradation of America as a whole. Anyone affiliated with the Libertarian Party is just a Republican wearing yellow.
Libertarians are just republicans who like weed and hate the government.
[удалено]
I wouldn't be friends with one. Their "everyone for themselves" world view is pretty indicative of a narrow world view and total lack of empathy.
In college, one of my friends was a Libertarian and was almost exactly the opposite. He had a massively rosy, naïve view of human nature, in my opinion, and so believed that if the state would just leave us all alone, we'd take care of each other.
That seems to be a prevailing view. Lots of sheltered people never get to see a benefit of having a society. Ask them to describe a single time when a large social need was taken care of entirely by private charity.
1. The libertarian party is just not a major player. Its vote totals are miniscule, and the party organization is completely nuts. If you have libertarian views, it's unlikely you vote for this party. 2. Libertarian politics just aren't as salient in US politics as they are in much of central & eastern Europe. There was a significant faction of the GOP that catered to them, but the post-2016 GOP has basically purged them...most of them have therefore had to change their views (usually in a more nationalistic & conspiratorial direction) and/or their party preferences. By and large we're talking about people who now swing between the two major parties rather than voting for their own. As for IT, not at all. Consistently out of the STEM fields, IT & Software Development lean heavily to the left, while engineers are about evenly divided.
I don't know any Libertarians.
I have a crazy cousin who is a libertarian. He’s a pain in the ass to talk to.
My impression (coming from a large, politically liberal city) is that many self-proclaimed Libertarians are younger white men who know that identifying as a Republican is a surefire way to get the majority of women to swipe left. As an actual poll worker, my real-life observation is that in each election about 10-12 of the 900+ registered voters in my precinct are registered Libertarians, and (without fail) they are always white men in their 20s and 30s, usually unmarried. They have good jobs (this is a fairly affluent neighborhood), no children in school, no partners needing reproductive care, no racial or religious affiliation with any historically disadvantaged group, and they themselves are young and healthy. Of course these guys want small government! Everything is going great for them. To me, the funniest punctuation of this was when one guy got furious that he was still registered as an (L) and couldn’t vote in the Democratic primary (which largely determines mayor, city council, district attorney, etc.), and asked if he was being disenfranchised (no, he just never completed the registration). He swore he changed his affiliation to (D) about six months earlier… all while holding his infant daughter.
1. Not at all popular. Libertarians are often either pitied as naive or avoided as sociopaths. 2. I know of some people that protest voted for them, but almost no one that seriously wanted them to win. 3. You don't "form a government" here. We don't have a parliament. Coalition building is something that happens before the ballot box here, not after. This is why libertarians do not matter. By isolating themselves from the big two (which are both incredibly internally diverse), they keep themselves out of the massive fundraising engines they have and demonstrate that they can't play well with others. 4. IT and libertarians have a link, but not in the corporate world. I work in tech in a major hub, and I can't think of many coworkers who fit that bill these days. One of the few who did went off to found one of the largest crypto exchanges, and that man was undoubtedly a sociopath. I can't begin to describe the callous disregard he had for the well-being of others. He was libertarian because he didn't want the government to be able to stop his "fun." That's a common theme among tech libertarians from what I've seen: start at corporate, hate having to play nice with others, go off to found a startup where your assholery can be unfettered.
The only time I hear about libertarians is as the butt of a joke.
Most of my friends who were libertarians became Trump supporters or even hardcore right wing white nationalists (a little bit uncomfortable for me as a black guy). I am personally sympathetic to some libertarian beliefs such as a smaller less intrusive government and a government that leaves businesses alone for the most part. However, from my perspective libertarians are passionate about some of the strangest issues like legal prostitution, anti driver’s licenses, auditing the fed and so on. I just think they tend to be weirdos who can’t relate to other people very well and they are too dovish on foreign policy for me as well.
I've met plenty of people who say their libertarians, only one seemed to support the libertarian party. The guy is a bit of a nut and you really couldn't debate politics with him because somehow it'd devolve into him saying that we should kill poor people. The rest voted Republican, except this one guy who didn't vote at all. Also met one who tried to run for mayor, he unsurprisingly didn't win since he was a college student. Don't know anything about a stereotype about them being in IT, I've always heard that it was business majors in college, which does apply to the nut I mentioned earlier. Most of the self identified libertarians I met were from small towns who were a mix of farmers, roughnecks, and some other form of physical labourers. I didn't meet the business types until college.
The way the voting works here, voting third party is pointless or actively harmful. I have known a couple of people who identified as Libertarian, but when general elections come around they vote for a Republican or a Democrat.
The party itself is not popular with people I know I do know a lot of people who will have a streak of libertarianism here and there but wouldn’t vote for the party (beyond a protest vote against the two main candidates for say President)
The big L libertarian party is a complete joke. Not saying the ideology is, but the party as an entity purity tests itself and makes some dumbfounding decisions. [This meme sums it up to some extent](https://preview.redd.it/wpjlnk0xa1o61.jpg?width=558&auto=webp&s=a0d304ebb9f6fe3d0b25e1fb97446cca2e3a1ccd) [And of course, the most popular Libertarian \(Big L\) L.... Licenses for vehicles.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ) Libertarianism as an ideology is popular, the party is not.
People refuse to fight agaist a 2 party system.i hate the whole you gotta vote for one of these 2. Like if people grew some fucking balls and stopped playing follow the leader, we could actually cause some change.
My mom was a lifelong Republican who voted for Gary Johnson in 2016 because she fucking hates Donald Trump. I think the point of no return was Trump mocking Serge Kovaleski's disability. Most of our tech people are either pro-cryptocurrency free-market libertarian bros or very far-left.
I’m libertarian and there is no end to the confusion people experience when I tell them that I don’t align with one of the two major parties. My experience has been that many people are unaware of the party’s principles or they feel they are “throwing away their vote” if they don’t support a candidate from one of the other parties.
A Libertarian Walks Into a Bear: Author Matthew Hongoltz-Hetling on the Free State Project - Vox [https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling]
This is my favorite story about the real life consequences of libertarian policy. I believe there was also an issue in a small New Hampshire town where only the Free Staters showed up to a public meeting and they did something crazy like abolishing the public school. The rest of the town found out the next morning when they woke up. I can't remember the exact details.
I'm a registered member, though in reality my ballot will be mostly Ds and Rs simply due to the lack of candidates. I've thought of deregistering because I hate the damn Mises Caucus, but I haven't gotten around to it.
It's a fringe party. I usually only hear about them as the butt of a joke.
The Libertarian Party has become a joke, honestly. It's filled with weirdos and edgelords who treat everything like it's all a big joke, but then can't understand why nobody takes them seriously.
A couple of the dumbest people I know consider themselves libertarian.
Me and my wife are that libertarian couple
“Libertarian” is usually used by closeted republicans because they’re ashamed to support the GOP.
I voted exclusively libertarian from the day I heard the horrifying phrase "Department of Homeland Security" until the day I heard the equally horrifying phrase "Basket of deplorables". Now I waver between R and L on federal offices, and drop a few strategic Ds at the state and local level (especially judgeships).
I respect that you are able to be flexible in your political orientation—I wish more people could be. But a vote for anyone other than Biden in this election might as well be a vote for Trump
The message you're replying to is specifically about voting FOR Trump. They voted Republican until Bush created DHS, then voted Libertarian until Hillary said her "deplorables" comment, when they switched back to Republican.
Which tells us everything we need to know, considering Hillary was 1000% right on that score.
I did in my twenties, but then I started a family and had real bills to pay. It ended up just being a stop on the journey from my Christian Republican upbringing to my leftist present.
LP was never particularly big. The movement as a whole was probably biggest during the Ron Paul congressional era. Even a lot of people with libertarian views end up splitting for one of the two major parties. If you care about guns, taxes and fiscal policy more, you might go for the Republican. If you care more about criminal justice reform, abortion, drug decriminalization, and social policies you might skew for the Democrats. I’m vastly oversimplifying. But by the time a lot of people get to the ballot box, they tick a D or R anyway - even if they identify as libertarian. The other thing is that the LP has a big issue with their image. Their credibility isn’t exactly helped when they have naked people running around, a major candidate wearing a boot on his head, Twitter accounts posting Zelensky is Hitler nonsense, and debating whether the age of consent should exist… While many people, myself included, share libertarian leanings. The party itself is a mess.
I work in oil in an already very libertarian state. Most of my coworkers call themselves libertarian but vote Republican
Rarely thought of, and when acknowledged, they're usually a subject of mockery
Not popular. Libertarians are mostly old white men because the only thing they have to worry about are taxes and gun laws. I have one uncle who pretends to be libertarian but is actually conservative, which is my stereotype of most libertarians.
It's pretty popular with my friend. At least some of the ideals. They rarely vote for their candidates
Not very popular. It is very fringe. I basically have one friend who was a "Libertarian" in college (Ayn Rand and all) and he is a police officer now. I'm in my late 40s now but Id say I was a "libertarianish" from my late 30s to my mid 40s. Though I mostly voted Republican then. I think that is the case for many "Libertarians". My interest in "Libertarianism" basically coincided with my interest in Firearms . Most firearms dudes call themselves "Libertarians" but vote Republican. I'm still very much into 2nd amendment, but I don't consider myself "Libertarian" any more. I feel they are filled with conspiracy theorist and people who think they are smarter than everyone else. Also I feel that a "nativist" undercurrent has taken over. Plus I just couldn't get myself on board the "tax is theft" and "no government regulation on business" spiel. I still believe in personal freedom but there are way to many "authoritarians" parading around as Libertarians.
We don't necessarily form governments with confidence and supply and all that op. We also use first past the post voting or rank choice voting in some places, both of which are not that good and naturally lend to two dominant parties, so voting libertarian on the federal stage is kind of useless.
The Libertarian party appeals a lot to many of my family members. I come from a very conservative Catholic family that doesn’t like the Republican Party, so many people in my extended family consider themselves to align more with the Libertarian party than either of the two main parties. Still, despite that almost none of them ever vote Libertarian.
I have a close friend who goes to all the conventions and stuff. He tries to get me into it, but I don't see the point.
My dad votes for them but he is a weirdo lol
Even when the libertarians have a candidate I like it would be a throw away vote in our voting system. So I primary vote for the most libertarian leaning candidate in one of the big parties then vote between Dem// Rep.
Not at all. The only place I've ever encountered it was at work and well, I think that's just because they didn't want to self-identify as Republican. They engaged with all of the right leaning infotainers and all of their arguments were straight up just fox news/newsmax thrown back at me.
Many people that I know would identify as libertarian or libertarian leaning, but few actually vote for the libertarian party. It's the biggest third party, but still doesn't have a chance in hell of winning. Many either abstain from voting "in protest" (which is really just them trying to justify being lazy) or vote for the lesser of two evils. The Libertarian Party has difficulty attracting a good candidate because it's so small, but it's so small because it has difficulty attracting a good candidate.
[удалено]
Among my family and friends? Very unpopular.
in nyc, i kno 0. i have a 2nd cousin in another state who’s a really nice guy who says he’s libertarian but we’ve not discussed details.
>but they never got enough votes to form a government We vote on individual people, not a party. For example, a section of Virginia will vote for 1 of 3 people that happen to be members of those 3 parties, and whoever gets the most votes will go to congress to represent that district in Virginia. The US has a bicameral congress as well, what I described above is the house and we also have a senate where electing them works the same way, but there district is the entire state of Virginia.
I am a small-l libertarian. I keep my ideas to myself. I know a few other libertarians, but talking to them about politics is pretty boring, because we agree about most of everything. I've never supported the Libertarian party.
My stepson's grooms cake had "Taxation is theft" on it. He works for the government. Great guy! We just have different economic politics.
You know that guy that always ends up at parties you and your friends arrange, but nobody knows who exactly invited him? The one always talking about conspiracy shit and how you don’t need a driver’s license to drive? Yeah, that’s members of the Libertarian Party.
I know my girlfriend voted Libertarian in 2020, but I think the rest of my friends probably voted for either of the two major parties (for my Wyoming friends probably mostly Republicans).
I don’t think I know any. Mostly I interact with Independents, Democrats, Green Party, & Republicans.
I wouldn’t say it’s popular. It’s an option people say when they don’t like the major parties but I don’t think it translates to votes.
[удалено]
>You're either a Democrat or a Republican. How would you characterize someone who is pro-Capitalism, loves America, wants small government and loves guns, is pro-Israel in the Middle Eastern conflict, is anti-environmentalist if said environmentalism impedes human progress, and is sceptical of the overt Socialist policies of Canada and Europe, but is also fiercely pro-Choice, pro-LGBTQ, pro-Science, and is sceptical of religion.
Let’s see. The “loves America” thing is weird, and not something I would peg to one party or another despite some rhetoric. In general I would say the person you describe is a Republican, unless they actually care enough about other people to vote Democratic. Your first set of priorities is what the government can do for you, or how it can get out of your way. The second set is how it can protect other people. Which is more important to you? Realistically I think Ds are less likely to create a quasi-socialist state in which guns are banned than Rs are to criminalize abortion, strip protections from LGBTQ folks, or further erode Thomas Jefferson’s “wall of separation between church and state.”
I’ve got one acquaintance (calling them a friend is a stretch) who has embraced conspiracy theories, moved to the middle of nowhere and wants to live off the land without putting in the work, and has become a vocal libertarian party member but is generally too lazy to show up and vote, or even spend 1 minute online requesting a ballot by mail.
That’s hard to say. Libertarians are stealthy and secretive. They come off as Republicans or Democrats depending on the day or the crowd and you can’t really know unless you ask them outright, which I haven’t done, but I suspect that 2 or 3 people in my family are closet Libertarians.
Very unpopular. Their popularity peaked probably about ten years ago. Most sided with Trump after he got elected so they were exposed as frauds.
These days most people that self-identify as libertarian align more with the republican party, they just don’t like calling themselves republicans. To be a libertarian is to be economically right wing and culturally left wing, but most American “libertarians” are economically AND culturally right wing.
* While it is the "3rd largest party", it is smaller than no party affiliation. there are only about 700,000 registered Libertarians across 28 states (and DC). Compared to D (48.5M), R (36.1M) and No Party affiliation (34.8M). * We don't vote for parties and no party "forms a government", we vote for individuals. Those Individuals may be members of a party, independent of a party, or even change parties. Being a member of a party gives a candidate greater access to funding and an agreed upon platform (core values) from which to work, but does not determine absolute idology. Libertarians, as a party, have a bit of an image issue here. Sometimes seen as disaffected republicans or Joe Rogan fanboys. It is hard to stand with a party that, in it's candidates, swing wildly from "lofty but impractical ideas" to batshit crazy "Sovereign Citizen" ideas. The [platform ](https://www.lp.org/platform/)is, for the most part, a logical and reasonable blend of left and right ideas. as u/InterPunct put it so well, it is often a transitional place form one party to the other. Both of my brothers in law are in IT, and they view libertarians as [house cats](https://twitter.com/tomowenmorgan/status/1634892949853962240?lang=en).
My cousin's husband runs for state offices as a libertarian in Iowa periodically. Other than that, I don't know any people who specifically identify with that party.
Not popular at all. I don’t have any friends or family that associate with that party.
Not at all popular. I've voted libertarian frequently but most are either red or blue. Several just vote for whomever isn't currently in power.
I know someone, 'cause he is me. Many of my friends are libertarian, and we didn't meet through Libertarian (capital "L") events, just through normal activities. None of us vote a Libertarian "straight ticket." This means we do vote for Dems and Repubs, depending.
It's what people claim to be when they don't want to argue with family members at thanksgiving.
No, there is no correlation between libertarianism and IT workers. I have voted libertarian or green party in every presidential race since 1998, but otherwise mostly tend to vote Democrat. Some, but not a lot of, people I know do the same thing. I do this because I live in a deeply "red" state and so my vote for president isn't actually counted, so instead I use it to try and add to the popular vote count for third parties. I don't care about who the candidate is or what their policy is, only that they are the top third party option.
As a party not very common. Don’t know anyone that votes for them
I don’t know of anyone who is a member of or votes for the Libertarian party. Although I know a lot of people with a vaguely Libertarian worldview (socially liberal, pro-civil liberties/ free speech, prefers a small government, low taxes, and pro-capitalism). They are a mixed bag in terms of voting. Most vote Republican, although some vote for Democrats or don’t bother voting. Libertarians aren’t on the ballot in most races. They always get someone in the presidential race, but I rarely see them or any third party in state or local races.
Most Libertarians in Indiana are just disaffected Republicans. Several years ago Libertarian Party had a slate of candidates for state-wide office, including State Auditor but not State Treasurer. In reviewing the election results, State Auditor with three candidates running (GOP, Dem, Libertarian) had nearly the same number of votes cast as State Treasurer (GOP, Dem), the difference being something minimal like seven or so. My reading of that is that a few Libertarian voters didn't vote State Treasurer at all, but most of them went for one of the two major party candidates And when you look at the break down of where those votes went, the Republican candidate for State Treasurer got two votes with no Libertarian candidate for every 1 vote the Dem candidate gained.
Most libertarians vote republican
I have mostly libertarian friends, and the libertarian party is very unpopular among them. I think that many libertarians view the libertarian party as opposed to many of their ideas. I think I have only one friend who supports the libertarian party and I classify her more as a progressive than as a libertarian.
I seriously considered the Libertarian party last election. I looked at their website and concluded that their platform of reducing regulations for business conflicts with my opinion that too much political and financial power already goes to a handful of corporations in a de facto oligarchy. I am a strong believer that free markets elevate the poor, but free markets need boundary lines and referees to remain free. a game where one side owns the goal posts and the refs is a game that is rigged. Neither major party seems interested in taking on the corporations head on, or protecting our personal freedoms consistently. I'll vote Dems because right now because they are less authoritarian than the GOP.
Casual libertarianism is sort of like the default ideology in the US. People that don't know anything about politics but passively pick things up from the culture are usually casual libertarians. Most people don't self label libertarian though and most of them stop being libertarians in their teens after learning more about politics. There is a minority of people that do self label libertarian into adulthood (and many of them are in IT! The stereotype is true that they are overrepresented, but honestly it's still maybe only ~25% as a high estimate.) But even among libertarians, the official Libertarian party is a massive joke. I have known probably a dozen people that call themselves Libertarians and their opinion can be summarized as "those guys are morons that make us look bad." This was the case even before the Libertarian party debate where people were cheering some truly unhinged takes about driving licenses, but since those clips went viral I think it's widely known that they're dysfunctional.
I have quite a few libertarian friends and family members, maybe 20? I'd definitely consider myself more libertarian leaning. I vote republican but feel fed up and disgusted with the majority of Republicans in office, they are mainly neocons selling us out just like I feel the other side is.
I know a few people with sympathy to the LP but no one who actually voted for them. The problem is that Libertarians are such individualists that they have a hard time coming together to form a coherent movement. Ask 10 different Libertarians what Libertarianism is about you get 10 different answers. If you can’t get at least a general message out then your party will never be successful even if fptp wasn’t an issue.
I know one person.
First of all, I need to make a distinction between the big-L Libertarians (the party members) and the little-L libertarians (people who believe in the philosophy). The problem with the party right now is that it has been taken over the Mises Caucus. Mises Caucus was upset with the party because they claim the party was too aligned with Democrats, so the Mises Caucus has aligned them more with Republicans. In this period, that means a lot of annoying "culture wars" BS. That kind of thing combined with some ... cultural attitudes of the Caucus (e.g. acting more like edgelords), makes the party distasteful for a lot of libertarians. And there has been a big exit from the party thanks to that. Now, that party itself is not very popular and it never was. Little-L libertarian ideas OTOH have always had a wide base of support. This has never translated into broad political support, but libertarians have always been around, and they have always influenced things. In a parliamentary system, you can imagine them as that party that has a broad enough set of ideals that they can form a government with pretty much anyone as long as a few concessions are made.
We have varying respect as well as caution for them. Libertarians intend to make the government as uninvolved as possible, which can be good or bad depending on how far it goes
Our parties don't form a government. The government exists. We elect our representatives.
It's not. I don't know anyone who's a Libertarian.
My take on the association between IT types and libertarianism is that most IT folks are successful, between middle-class up to wealthy, but few come from "old money". They tend to work with and socialize with other people who never seem to be wanting for job opportunities. So they tend to disassociate with people who occasionally need government assistance. Many of them either notice that others are suffering at some point, or after they go through a couple of economic downturns, or extremely shitty presidents, they start to realize that there is a definite role for institutions in the system. A lot of IT folks are hyper-individualistic because they can be. After a while that softens. Most of the libertarians I have known over the years are more like what people call Neoliberals now, myself included. A couple have become straight-up right-wing Republicans but those were always the ones who were dickheads to begin with. That is just my experience though.
I only know one guy who says he’s one.
I'm married to a software developer who's pretty close to Democratic socialist. A lot of the IT folks I know have a libertarian bent in the "live free and die" sense but not actual Libertarian Party ideas sense.
Libertarians in America are somewhat of a "joke" to most folks. Typically support of them is relegated to those that are considered "out of touch" or "uneducated". For example, I work in IT and the only two people I know that legit would vote Libertarian are someone that I know is poor and lives in the sticks and works with taxidermy and art, and a guy that is just... consistently "on the fringe" of our friend groups and interactions but is otherwise pretty unremarkable. The reason I think that Libertarians are not given much credit is because the ones that people keep putting forth as "omg if everyone just voted for this person we could break out of the 2 party system" is like, some washed up, unsuccessful politician with a poor track record of success and really fringe ideas and policies that aren't realistic, but they sure are romantic.
I am hardcore libertarian and no it is not very popular over all as this is a two party state with huge umbrellas to encompass as much as possible to keep a two party only choice. People buy into the two party only because it was that way when they grew up and their parents or mentors believed in it and had instilled in them any other vote was a waste. Since we only have 2 parties has made it where only class warfare is possible to keep the status quo going so this is where we get the sheep follower designations from as the electorate is fed how and what to think by the media and the media is an extension of the two party system. The only time we have ever had meaningful changes is when we have got a temporary third party come around and disrupt the status quo enough to where one of the two parties will usurp the ideas. This is how the green party was taken over by the democratic party.
I don't know anyone who votes Libertarian (to my knowledge). I know people who like the surface idea of it, but they're critical of how it would work in practice. And I wouldn't say being into tech here signals that someone is a Libertarian, but if a tech bro said he was a Libertarian, I wouldn't be surprised either.
When my friends and I were twentysomething young men who read Ayn Rand fantasies in the late 1980s or early 1990s, the Libertarian Party was popular among us. No one I know who is 30 or over takes them the least bit seriously. At an adult age affiliating with the LP is a sign of arrested development, like still wearing a high school letter jacket. They do occasionally get protest votes. The last time I voted for an LP candidate was a county level office 20 years ago where members of one party infiltrated the other, captured the nomination, then had their own party’s candidate drop out leaving only the Trojan horse and the LP guy on the ballot. That’s the kind of scenario that justifies an LP vote.
My dad is a Republican but voted Libertarian rather than voting for Trump, either time.
We have several Libertarian friends. They hate the government getting involved... but tend to have zero solutions. One friend was against car registration fees, which as we all know goes toward the upkeep of roads and highways. His solution was when we need a road repaired, people will just donate to the cause. (insert eyeroll) Another friend hates government groups like the EPA and FDA. Yikes. I like knowing my food and water are safe.
Libertarian ideas as far as social issues go are pretty popular in America and among my circles. The Libertarian Party and their economic ideas are not particularly popular, I don't know anyone that's ever openly told me they voted for their candidate
Love the idea, but the two party control makes it difficult. It would be nice if we could look/elect a candidates on their individual merits.
I happen to know quite a few. Few of them were involved with various Libertarian organizations in neighboring states, I work with quite a few people who consider themselves Libertarian, and my brother-in-law either was or is but he might be full AnCap now. I considered myself one at some point but I've also considered myself both a Democrat and Republican at different points. The LP is being co-opted by the GOP now so quite a few of the people I mentioned no longer have any affiliation with the party, myself included. Now a Libertarian is just a Republican who smokes weed. I should note that I work in politics so I'm going to know a disproportionate amount of Libertarians, you run into them no matter which party you work with.
Not popular, but it seems to be a phase most STEM guys go through in their 20s, kind of like how a lot of humanities students go through a socialism/communism stage in college. I live in San Francisco (so, very tech-heavy city) and it’s to the point where I’ve made jokes about my 20-something cousins being “in their libertarian phase” to my 30-something friends and everyone just laughs and nods and reminisces. My 20-something cousins are self-described libertarians right now. They’re smart, sweet kids, and I love them like little brothers (I lived with my aunt and uncle for a year), but I would describe them as pretty out of touch with the real world. Their dad is a hedge fund manager and their mom was a corporate attorney before she quit to be a stay-at-home mom because the dad’s income rose to $5-10 million per year. So, my cousins went to college and are very smart, but they are ultimately trust fund kids who are also very dependent on their helicopter mom to run their lives for them.
I regularly vote for them. That said, it's a candidate by candidate basis. The issue that is most important for me currently is gun rights. So clearly the Democrat vote is out. And the Republican train ran off thr tracks some time ago. So I vote libertarian.
Libertarianism is more popular as a philosophy than as a political movement. That said, the two major parties have a chokehold on US politics, to the point that they control even what the mainstream media covers, regarding Libertarian Party accomplishments or involvement. Examples include * The presidential candidate debates are controlled by the Democratic and Republican parties, not an objective, government-controlled body, as most Americans are led to believe. They make their own rules for who may or may not participate, and frequently change and update rules to arbitrarily exclude third party challengers. These debates are the primary opportunities for voters to learn about candidates, and exclusion is a political death sentence. * Funding for presidential candidate campaigns comes in part from the federal government, itself. To qualify for campaign funding, however, a political party must have received a minimum 5% of the popular vote in the previous election cycle (if I recall correctly, but this might have changed in recent years). The fact that the Libertarian Party has not quite reached that 5% threshold means that they don't receive the millions in taxpayer advertising to even notify the voters of candidate options, much less present their arguments. In fact, until I spent some time volunteering for the Libertarian Party, I never realized how significant a portion of the voting population **isn't aware the Libertarian Party exists**.
No. Many of us long for a viable centrist party, but the Libertarians aren’t it.