More than one case has solidified that. It went from religious freedom to the idea the government can't compel speech of anyone or else free speech no longer exists.
We were fussed at and called out in front of the class whenever we didn’t say it. A couple of teachers really gave me trouble for it. We also had to say it from elementary school all the way through high school. I’ve heard some people say they only did it in elementary or junior high. They couldn’t legally “force” us (and we as children couldn’t have known that), but they would do everything short of that.
I never had any problem with national loyalty *per se*, but forcing children to pledge to it when they can’t even legally sign a contract or really make any other consequential decisions for themselves feels a little on the nose as far as the indoctrination train goes, and we were also in the middle of Iraq/Afghanistan the entire time I was in school from the 2nd grade on. It was a weird era.
I had a US History teacher for first period my senior year. I'm atheist and wouldn't say the pledge.
He disagreed with my position but 100% supported me. He even talked to the class about it's sometimes hard to stand up for (so to speak) something you believe in, especially in the face of peer pressure.
No one gave me grief about it after that because he was one of the most respected staff in the school. He'd won the state teacher of the year, in fact.
Not only that, but other people then stopped saying the pledge too
> He disagreed with my position but 100% supported me. He even talked to the class about it's sometimes hard to stand up for (so to speak) something you believe in, especially in the face of peer pressure.
This teacher could teach some politicians in this country what it really means to be an American.
Kudos to him for imparting such a powerful lesson.
Yeah, I was a kid who didn't ever say the Pledge because my parents had religious and ethical objections to it, and I definitely did occasionally get hassled by teachers. My ex-husband grew up Jehovah's Witness (they also don't say the Pledge) and had even more trouble, though he grew up in a much more conservative area than I did.
It is illegal to force kids to say it, but there are idiot teachers who don't know that and will give you trouble. My parents had to get involved once, and my husband's parents had to intervene multiple times. I've also heard similar stories from a lot of other kids who didn't say it.
Usually it isn't a big deal; I only actually had one teacher give me serious trouble about it (a few others just made me explain why I couldn't, which was super uncomfortable), but it was a big enough deal that I was switched out of his classes. I never faced any major consequences, but it was very uncomfortable.
It also kind of sucks to already be the weird minority religion kid in an area, and not standing for the Pledge does make you stand out even more. If you're generally popular it doesn't matter, but if you're already in a situation where you're standing out, it can further accentuate the differences.
I actually still don't really think it's a big deal, and I think better education of teachers and better administration of schools would go a long way towards fixing it, but I don't really love the practice.
edit: I will add, though, on a positive note that I am kind of glad I had that experience, which is why I don't feel that strongly about it. I feel like it was good early education in standing up for my principles and knowing/asserting my rights. So there were some benefits to being the weird kid who didn't stand and recite it, too.
Man, you just brought back a memory from elementary school in the 80s. There was a kid who was a Jehovah's Witness and couldn't say the pledge, one day we had a substitute teacher and she told him to stand up and say the pledge, he manages a half hearted "I can't" and she just laid into him. I don't even remember exactly what she said, just him repeating a squeaky "I can't" a few times and seeing a tear from in the corner of his eye. I felt so bad for him.
That's fucked up.
Even sadder when you remember that he went back to his home where he wasn't allowed to ever have a birthday celebration.
JW kids have it rough...
>but forcing children to pledge to it when they can’t even legally sign a contract or really make any other consequential decisions for themselves feels a little on the nose as far as the indoctrination train goes
When and where I learned it (New Jersey in the mid '80s), they didn't even really explain it to us. It was just a series of syllables and pauses we were taught by rote. "I pledja leejunce. Toothuh flag. Uvva United States of America." We just recited it every morning without really thinking about it. (And it sounds *really weird* if you just rattle it off without those pauses every few words.)
You're absolutely right on your thoughts on indoctrination, I'm just really amazed that I was never in a class that had to say the pledge of allegiance.
Although I did go to elementary school in Oregon and we had to start our day singing "Oregon My Home" which was explained to us was written by an Oregon woman serving life in a Turkish prison for smuggling heroin. So there's that lol
[Looks like they were smuggling hash and were sentenced to to death! Luckily they were eventually freed in a prison exchange.](https://www.oregonlive.com/history/2020/08/young-oregon-woman-survived-turkish-prison-in-1970s-her-plight-immortalized-in-hit-song.html?outputType=amp) [The song is Oregon (I Can’t Go Home)](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t2c6yfSniZY)
Ironically, it appears that the only other places around the world that have such daily pledges of allegiance are communist states or fascist dictatorships, which is what many people who insist on doing the pledges claim to be against.
Except for some teachers in maybe a more conservative leaning area, with maybe a husband or child that served in the military, that seems to think not saying the pledge is an immediate spit in the face of their family's service. Or maybe even just slipping over the phrasing and then being forced to write the pledge 50 times before being able to participate in class.
At most, other kids ask why. We had a kid from Brazil who didn’t say it. He was asked why and said he wasn’t a US citizen and his dad worked at the consulate.
He was met with outraged cries of “oh cool! Tell us about Brazil!”
Nothing happens. You might get some holier than thou student or teacher judging you, but no one forces you to do it or punishes you for not doing it.
It's voluntary. It's just that when everyone is doing it every day starting at age 6 or 7. It just becomes normal to you. Didn't really question it until I was in high school. And then I'd usually just stand for it and stay silent for the most part.
Yeah idk I agree it shouldn’t be a thing, and it’s better that it’s taken away. But I also don’t think it was this crazy insane indoctrination thing. At least not by the late 90s early 2000s. People didn’t really care if you didn’t stand up and do it outside of a few.
But I also never really thought about it past “ughhhhh I have to stand up”
Same here. Grew up in Southeastern Virginia in the 2000s. It was just something we did but no one actually cared if you didn't say it.
They did say something if you stayed seated, though. Besides, standing is always good for America's increasingly obese youth.
lol “I’m here for the pledge but it has nothing to do with patriotism and everything to do with obesity”
Yeah your right sitters did get judged. I lowkey judged them but never said anything, but others definitely did
Nothing happens if you don’t recite it. When I was in school, some kids would stay seated and one kid would stand and face away from the flag in protest. The worst that happened was an annoyed eye-roll from the teacher.
Nothing happens. I grew up with classmates whose families were Jehovah’s Witnesses, they did not say the pledge. They st sat quietly at their desks while the rest of us did. Then we all went about our day and never thought about it.
As a teacher, I had a JW and she stood up but didn't say it. Nobody even noticed.
I will say that she seemed sad about not celebrating birthdays though.
Oh that's what it was! We had a kid in my first grade class who stood but didn't say it or put his hand on his heart. It was first grade so I don't remember the explanation that must have been it
You're summarily executed.
One time, our teacher realized the class pet (a hamster named Mr. FuzzFace) wasn't reciting The Pledge and shot him right then and there. We took the rest of the day off to celebrate.
By the time I was old enough to be able to "do something" about it, I certainly didn't care anymore. It's like asking why we don't lower the drinking age - because once you turn 21, you don't give a shit anymore about 18 year-olds not being able to drink.
I can see how the pledge looks creepy and weird to outsiders, but when you grow up doing it, it's basically like mindlessly reciting a memorized poem or singing a school song or something. You go through the motions for the, what, 30 seconds it takes? and then sit down and go about your day.
On a personal note, I'm incredibly opposed to the Red Scare addition of "under God" in the pledge, but I just didn't say those words. No one noticed or cared.
Yeah it’s the same in my kid’s school. They have a school song and they do that followed by the pledge. You aren’t required to do either.
The school song is to this tune and I hate that I know it because it’s an ear worm if you start it.
https://youtu.be/at_f98qOGY0?si=o15dWk9eqMKuYNZv
(Obviously not the original but that’s the version I think of)
I don’t really find it that creepy, since from the comments i got (and from what i’ve heard before here and there) it isn’t really mandatory, so it sounds great as a bonding thing and a way to feel happy about the country, and for showing gratitude for being fortunate enough to live in a one of the better countries on this earth.
It also varies very much by state. I grew up in Georgia and always said it. My kids grew up in California and it was not at all a part of their experience. I'm not sure they even know the pledge as people in their early 20s.
That's interesting. I went to California high school for 3 years (just graduated) and they played the pledge every morning. I do live in a more conservative area though.
Looking back on it, I think it was probably helpful as an indication that school is now in session. We’d all be chatting and being kids up until the pledge started and the learned reflex told us that we had to be quiet and in our seats now.
Honestly, removing the religious content from it makes it significantly less culty. Obviously the "allegiance" part still hits me a little odd, but it's definitely less uncomfortable.
School can't enforce it, but power tripping teachers freak out at you regardless and try to fuck you over anyway they can. Speaking from personal experience.
By that afternoon you'll be on a plane with a bag over your head on the way to Guantanamo Bay.
As people have said it can't legally be mandatory and some schools do it, other schools don't. It also depends on the school board and the administrators at that particular point in time. When I went to school in the 80s and 90s I never did it. When my niece went to that same school in the early 2000s and 2010s they did both the US pledge and the state pledge. From what she said a lot of kids didn't do either and a few kids just did the state one to be contrarians. It's all pretty meaningless.
Yeah apparently RI has one
> I pledge allegiance to our State Flag, and to the Republic of which Rhode Island forms a part; one Union inseparable, with honor and reverence for both State and Nation.
It doesn’t seem to be anything official or commonly said.
Maine and Indiana seem like they don’t.
We have the First Amendment in the US which protects freedom of speech and freedom of expression, particularly when being done within a government setting which public schools would fall under. Doing whatever you feel like you need to do in expressing yourself during the time allotted for the Pledge would fall under 1A grounds as long as its respectful of others and isn't disruptive to the classroom.
Only when done in a government setting.
The federal and state constitutions only protect you from government actions.
A private school could absolutely require kids to make some pledge or even go to church as part of their curriculum.
Absolutely.
Private schools, particularly but not exclusively those run under religious auspices, tend to be much stricter about this. Depending on the school, there can be appreciable negative repercussions for failing to toe the line.
Religious services are very much a part of the Roman Catholic and Protestant systems up to and not infrequently including the college/university level.
I don’t know of any Catholic universities that require anything like that. Like Georgetown and Notre Dame aren’t requiring you to go to mass. They’ll offer it but no requirement.
It’s probably different in seminary but that’s a different thing.
Nothing happens. No exceptions.
I see it as a commencement of the day. Like saying "good morning" to the teacher.
Important to note that the flag represents the people, not the government.
>Nothing happens. No exceptions.
I mean this highly depends on the teacher and school. Constitutionally, no one can force you to say it, but that doesn't mean there aren't teachers who do so anyway. They know most kids aren't gonna bother going to the courts about it.
I doubt they're getting paid enough to care, but teachers are people and some people are jerks, so you're probably right. The "no exceptions" part was in response to his question about exceptions for international students. Since nothing usually happens, there doesn't need to be an exception.
Nothing happens.
By high school most students had stopped participating in it and no one cared. Some teachers *might* tell you to stop talking (about whatever personal conversation you were having) while it was being said, but that was about it.
I view the entire concept as some sort of bizarre theater/archaic indoctrination attempt that I don't think has inspired anyone in the past 50 years.
I don't even remember saying it passed elementary school (Late 80s- early 90s). Pretty sure we weren't saying it by 6th grade on. Maybe it came back after 9/11, but I was already graduated and in the Army by that point. Seeing it from another's perspective, I can see how it seems weird. As a little kid, I didn't think anything of it though because it was our normal morning routine.
>no one cares.
That's not really true.
The entire reason we had a Supreme Court case on this point is specifically because a lot of nationalist ultraChristians care and want to enforce it on everyone else.
That's also what I mean.
If you go to school in an upper middle class New York suburb, sure, likely absolutely nothing is going to happen and nobody in the class will care.
Of you go to school in a blue collar small town in Alabama? You *probably* won't be officially punished because of the Supreme Court case, but you probably will be ostracized and bullied for it behind the scenes.
Kids don't get in trouble or anything if that is what you are asking. Where I live, it's not as common to do anymore. The school I teach in they only do it for veterans day.
nothing other than a few pain in the ass teachers yelling at you. I refused after elementary school because I didn't like saying it. I had one sub become upset because of the military or something in middle school. another in my senior year of high school just because alot of people wouldn't stand in our class. he wanted to know if we had reasons, which I did, but didn't really mind as long as you knew what you were sitting or standing for.
Beatings. Frequent and severe beatings. The teachers basically jump you in like they're Crips or Bloods. Either get with the Red, White and Blue, or you'll be left red, black and blue.
Literally nothing.
I am personally indifferent, but completely encourage and will support anyone who is morally or religiously opposed to it from having to do so.
I never once said it as a kid (not as some political protest, but because of anxiety issues) and no one ever said a thing. Not from kindergarten through high school. But I did stand up while everyone else said it, so probably most people didn't notice.
When I was in high school, someone absolutely got sent to the principal for refusing to say the pledge. But it was a thing where it was clearly in protest as they normally said it but were refusing that day. That teacher was also the worst educator I ever had. He was meant to be a football coach, they shouldn’t make coaches teach history, or anything really, to keep their jobs.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses were exempt from the pledge with no issue.
By the time I was in middle school, my class would just stand and remain silent. In high school, probably half of my teachers didn’t care if you stood or not. Even if they didn’t like you sitting, there was literally nothing they could do about it
In theory, nothing. Based on my experience, your kindergarten teacher yells at you. We didn’t do the pledge in preschool so I was super confused about it.
Nothing. I never did as a kid because it seemed creepy and authoritarian. It made me uncomfortable even as a 7 year old.
I never got in trouble for it.
Officially, nothing. It's against the law for the school to force students to stand and recite the pledge.
Unofficially, you can be bullied and ridiculed by other students, and perhaps even the teacher, especially in conservative areas.
I haven’t been in school in a long time. But I used to stand and not say it or put my hand on my heart. Nothing happens. As long as you aren’t disruptive, it would be fine.
You're brought out back, and kidnapped. You are then brought to the trial of chambers where they find new and horrible ways to punish and torment the human body. You will meet your end there.
You are replaced with a genetic clone, he will mimic you, he will become You, YOU WILL CEASE TO EXIST!
A public school can't force someone to participate. There's a cultural assumption that foreign students just wouldn't participate anyway (why would they?)
Did it for most of my time in Elementary, Middle, and High school. International students obviously didn’t have to do it, but it was generally considered weird and unpatriotic if you were a citizen but chose not to.
Its a hold over from the Cold War. Plus, we’re a nation composed of many more differing groups than others were in the past, so it made sense to have something to tie us all together as one nation.
Not everyone participates, I even remember a few kids in the 80's (I learned later they were Jehovah’s Witnesses) actually left the room every time we said the pledge and stood in the hallway. Nobody bothered them about it.
I did my senior year of high school in the USA. Before that all my young schooling came from a south american country, where pretty much every school sang the national anthem on weekly school wide assemblies, generally on Mondays. You wear a nicer uniform that day, and everyone in the school meets somewhere to do this.
I remember being so surprised that kids could just sit during the pledge of allegiance and not reciting in the USA, nothing really happens if you dont recite it.
I'm not crazy about the pledge of allegiance in school, but nothing happens if you don't recite it. At worst, a teacher will get annoyed and call you out, and I've seen this happen, but that's it.
West Virginia v. Barnette is a Supreme Court case from 1943 that solidified the right to not stand or pledge the flag.
It is literally illegal to force students to stand or pledge the flag in American public schools. Not that most kids know this. I learned it in a prelaw class in college (that convinced me not to go into law!)
So, they can't force you to stand or say the pledge, but they do teach it to us really young, and I can honestly say that they never, ever take the time to teach you what the heck it means. I can also say, that peer pressure is utilized thoroughly here, and if you try to sit through the pledge, you are likely to get the stink eye from a classmate. Or at least you were back when I was in high school. I can also say that we only said the pledge a handful of times after elementary school, and almost all of them were in the weeks following 9/11.
I never said it once in High School. Nothing happened. If a teacher asked, I'd say some smart ass thing like "I would pledge allegiance to The Constitution but not a blanket."
West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (1943) established that the first amendment means children in school cannot be forced to stand for it recite the pledge.
Jehovah's witnesses, for example, follow religious rules that forbid them from saluting or pledging symbols. So forcing them to say the pledge or salute the flag is a religious issue.
In my kid's school, they say something to the effect of "now you can recite the pledge if you'd like to" so that children know they have a choice.
Your limited freedoms of expression while in school still protect you from being forced to recite the pledge. However, as my government professor liked to put it, freedom of expression is not freedom from consequences.
While the school cannot legally punish you, your classmates “can.”
I know the pledge is a popular topic for foreigners and I certainly can't speak for every school in America, but this is only something we did in elementary school. By the time I was really old enough to think about it, I didn't have to think about it anymore. If people want to do it, fine; if people are opposed to doing it, fine. Never seen anyone penalized for not reciting it.
Nothing happens. You're not required to participate in the pledge, and have not since 1943. Are there rare exceptions where schools try to arbitrarily pull some bullshit? Yes. But those schools/districts also get promptly slapped down the near moment the issue reaches a courtroom.
Some teachers would get pissed. One time in 7th grade, my regular teacher was running late so they threw in a teacher who had a free period who was a us history teacher and had a son in the miltary. The morning announcements ended with the pledge and we half assed it. The guy got extremely pissed and yelled at us talking about how people like his son are out there risking their lives for our freedoms and as children of immigrants cuz we were all hispanic we were even lucky to be in the us and we couldnt be bothered to say the pledge right. Then he made us say it nice and loud twice and got up in my face as I basically screamed it. This was like 2006-2007.
Then another time in 10th grade, some people sat during it and the teacher got mad that we could at least stand up for it.
Nothing happens. In my state, the law says that schools must go through the motion of the pledge of allegiance at the beginning of each school day, but students/staff do not have to participate. The law does say, "students not reciting the pledge shall maintain a respectful silence."
Within the bounds of the law? Literally nothing.
In the most extreme cases? Someone hassles you.
In most cases I'm aware of? Nothing.
Honestly, most classes had at least one person who was either trying to take a nap through it or was just standing and saying nothing because they didn't want to be the only one sitting
Edit: Also, it only happened during the first class, so it's not like it intruded on the day
In high school they stopped requiring us to, some people still stood and recited it but most people just stayed sitting and doing their work
Before that, most people just did it automatically. If you stayed seated the teacher would ask you to at least stand but that’s it
I used to get yelled at in elementary school for not doing it. When I got into middle school and high school they didn’t care anymore and they didn’t even do the pledge.
Many schools don’t even do it anymore. I’m a teacher in NYC and we’ve never done the pledge of allegiance.
As a child in NJ in the 90s, we used to recite it. However, I noticed it gradually declined in the 2000s. The last time I remember doing it as a student was in the mid 2000s (several students were mocking it and laughing).
Nothing happens if you don’t do it.
Nothing. I used to totally ignore it when I was in high school like an edgelord. Then 9/11 happened my senior year and I felt a lot different about the whole thing. I still didn’t say the ‘under god’ part.
Nothing. I'm a teacher and don't bother with either the US Pledge or the Texas Pledge. Yes, Texas requires both but oops, never quite get around to it. Darn.
What should happen is nothing. What very occasionally happens is you get your right not to stepped on by an uninformed and/or malicious members of the school staff.
By middle school most people were just sort of mumbling through it, and my by high school I don’t really remember anyone saying it out loud. Every homeroom teacher I had still made us stand up for it, though. So stupid.
At least where I lived in Ohio, Elementary we "had" to say it (but we didn't really know there was a choice lol), Junior High some teachers would call you out and if you goofed off you could get a writeup.
Aside from like, once or twice in High School they never even did it over the PA. All the classrooms still had a flag, but morning announcements took all of a minute total.
Once my kid got a new high school principal who said he was making a new rule everyone had to stand for the pledge.
By the end of the day we had notification that the rule was called off.
I assume a civics teacher got to him before I did.
Execution. It’s a terrible shame but rules are rules. All the kids line up outside the school and are given assault rifles (if they don’t have their own on them) and made to execute the student who didn’t recite the pledge. It’s a bit traumatic at first but This is America.
I be half sitting at ky desk bc I didn’t wanna stand and I would just stare at the board until we could sit again. Nothing happened. It was just 30 seconds of ppl doing the pledge and then I sat down
I used to get in trouble for that in the mid-late ‘90s but this was in a small conservative Southern town. It was mainly verbal reprimands & getting sent to the hall. Those same teachers & admin were on a serious anti-LGBTQIA kick too, a friend got in trouble for wearing rainbow shoelaces
NOVA is diverse. I was friends with a boy who's father worked at the Canadian embassy downtown and I don't think a single teacher gave him stink about not standing or reciting.
Few made a stink but most didn't care.
Depends on the school. Usually nothing. Sometimes a teacher feeling "patriotic" might get in their feelings and take issue, at which case it may escalate up administration until it runs into someone who knows what the constitution is.
If you live in a conservative place, your teachers and fellow students will hate you and treat you like shit.
Back in the 90s we were sent to the principal or even suspended.
A friend of mine in school refused to say the Pledge for religious reasons. When everyone stood to recite it, he just stood silently. Some people asked him why, but he was never punished for it.
Jimmy V. and I spent third and fourth grade trying to be just a little louder than each other during the Pledge. He always sat next to me (I'm a W) so we were "the brass section" of the morning Pledge. That annoyed the teachers a lot more than the kids who stayed silent.
By about 3rd or 4th grade almost nobody said it. We stood there and mumbled sounds that went along with the principal on the PA. It wasn’t a political protest…it was a mandatory, boring and silly chore nobody cared about. The goal was to pretend to go along so you wouldn’t be hassled.
I do the same at sporting events to this day for the national anthem. Forced patriotism doesn’t get much passion out of anyone .
Nothing happens also it's incredibly uncommon these days. I stopped reciting the pledge in school in the mid 2000s and didn't do it once in high school during the early 2010s. Like not me choosing not to, the school just didn't do it.
A question I am uniquely prepared for!
When and where: 2006/2007 Midwest US. Middle School. This is important because part of the reaction is a holdover from the overwhelming pro-america post 9/11 attitude that was and is still prevalent.
My school made me sit in my councilor's office and I was interrogated by a small group of administrative adults in the building (councilor, principal, one teacher, one secretary). They took away my computer privileges. This was when Wisconsin was rolling out the laptop program to see how it would perform in schools so it had a heavy impact on my schoolwork. My homeroom teacher went on a LONG rant about how disrespectful it is to not stand for the pledge of allegiance, particularly about how it was disrespectful to everyone who had ever served our country. He didn't explain why we had to have this lecture to the class. He did not single me out, either. For most of the kids, this whole thing came out of nowhere. Several teachers started treating me worse. They made it all about me hating my country. I wish I were fucking joking.
There was no code of conduct policy that made it mandatory to stand. The school just decided that this was appropriate. My mom never bothered to go to my school to advocate for me or even ask for an explanation. So I just stayed like that until I graduated.
In my school, the teacher would prod you to stand. If you didn't, you were expected to have a religious excuse. If you still didn't, you might get uncomfortable laughter from classmates or a bit of teasing. I grew up in a conservative area so there was definitely peer pressure to not appear "anti-American."
I don't think any formal discipline could occur but there were definitely social consequences.
Does your country have a national anthem? Is it ever played before sporting events? It's about like that, but for young schoolchildren. Most people stand for the anthem right? Some are enthusiastic about it, most don't really care. Many will choose not to stand for various reasons. Most anthems have lyrics that, when read literally, sound really creepy and disturbing. Like do I pledge to fill rivers with blood? Probably not. Am I gonna slit my enemies' throats? Uhhh, I'm just trying to watch a tennis match bro. Right? The only people who are taking the US pledge literally are non-Americans.
Nothing. I stopped reciting it in 2nd grade because I thought it was creepy, and I didn’t like the “under god” part (I was not raised in a household that practices religion). My middle school and high school didn’t have the pledge as part of our daily routine so it wasn’t an issue after elementary school.
I still don’t recite it as an adult. I work in local government and it is recited before every Council meeting. I just stand there with my hands behind my back like I have for 20+ years and no one cares.
Nothing can happen to you. It isn’t required, but in reality there are always cases of teachers who are ignorant or just indignant about it, and who abuse students who don’t.
I’m surprised by all these “nothing happens” comments. My kid was harassed by his teachers and told “You have to say the pledge!” every day for almost a whole school year. He stuck to his rights and continued to stay silent during the pledge. Near the very end of the year, a different teacher made a point of teaching his class that saying the pledge was optional, and my kid’s classmates all stared at him in shock.
Despite everyone saying nothing happens, I've had several teachers (usually substitutes) attempt to give out consequences. Other students have talked them down.
Other kids will be like "wtf why aren't you standing?" and the teacher will yell at you to stop distracting everyone.
Most kids recite it without really thinking about the words, so if someone chooses not to, people will think we're just trying to rebel, and not understand why we might have a moral or religious objection to it.
For a few years, my elementary school replaced the pledge with exercise videos.
As a teenager I submitted a rewritten pledge of allegiance about how it was indoctrination and brainwashing and cultish. I wrote it in cursive on tea stained paper and burned the edges. Good Times. Good Times. I got an A-.
Nothing. In elementary school everyone did it because you were a little kid and it was just seen as a thing of tradition. By the time you get older, you usually care about it less and less. I remember by Middle School, most stopped paying attention and by High School, very few actually did it anymore. I remember sometimes the teacher would just continue the lesson while the pledge was being said. I'm indifferent to it as an adult, if they keep it that's fine and if they remove it, that's fine.
When I was in school we didn’t have to recite it but we had to at least stand and face the flag, students who didn’t were given 3 warnings then it would be detention or ISS
As a kid, I sat down for the pledge one day and lost my recess. But I think I could have just stood but not say anything without punishment, but I never tried.
Do they still say the pledge in schools? 🤯 When I was in elementary school in the 80s we did, but not in high school. I assumed they didn’t do it anymore (don’t have kids so no recent experience with it). Anyway even back in the 80s no one cared, one of my friends was Jehovahs Witness and they didn’t say it. Not sure what would have happened if a kid without an official religious exemption didn’t want to say it. Probably nothing, although maybe the teacher would have told them to. I personally find it creepy and North Korea-esque and hoped they didn’t do it anymore.
Depends on the teacher and the school. More times then not, especially now, nothing happens, you carry on as usual. When I was in school (this was at the end of 2014 or so) however, I do remember a kid didn't stand up for the pledge once, just to be an ass not for any given reason, and the teacher had a huge meltdown going on a long lecture about loving our troops and our country, threatening to call the principal and some veterans she knew to talk to him if it happened again.
I went to high school in the '90s, when it was considered terminally uncool to care about anything. Maybe two or three kids in a class of 25 would stand and recite it.
I grew up in Sacramento, CA, and we used to say the pledge every morning. There were a handful of kids who wouldn't do it tho and they were always either Ukrainian, Russian, or Jehova's Witnesses. I don't think the Ukrainian and Russian kids didn't do it because they weren't originally from there tho, I think it might have also been a religious thing as well (Russian Orthodox?) but I'm not totally sure. Either way, nothing happened to them and the teachers always told us not to harass them for not doing it.
It might be a little different in places like rural Texas tho.
You are not legally required to recite the Pledge. Teachers legally can't do anything about it. If a teacher tries to punish the student, that's unconstitutional and you have a 1st Amendment lawsuit on your hands.
After 2020 I don’t recite the pledge and used to sit it out when I was in school. Nowadays it doesn’t come up often but I’ll stand out of respect but I don’t recite, put my hand on my chest, or face the flag. No one has ever said anything or mentioned it to me. I’ve had some friends that got “in trouble” for not standing during school but I think it was more so just the teacher bitching at them and not any actual trouble.
My schools never did the pledge, except for my 8th grade year. That year the teacher who did the morning announcements over the intercom decided to do the pledge as a part of that. Most people stood, and a few mumbled along, but it was never the expectation that everyone had to join in, or anything. A bunch of students weren't even Americans, so it would be exceptionally weird to make them pledge allegiance to a country that they were only visiting.
I live in an area that's particularly liberal and non-religious, so my experiences tend to be a little different than many other Americans, but the pledge isn't a universal feature of schools here.
I for one got in trouble for it. I'd imagine it depends on your teacher. Also I was 15 when 9/11 happened and in school, I'd guess they were more patriotic about it then. But for me that was a breaking point about many things. Mainly how it was leveraged to.invade Iraq, how they also had nukes so it was totally cool, and how everyone just chose to be complacent with an evil government.
I was suspended, placed in detention and asked to not come to homeroom until they finish the pledge of allegiance. I have always been very stubborn and stick to my own code. So their tactics did not sway me as you can maybe tell from them trying to get me to wait it out (I did not).
When I was in school in the 80s and 90s, you'd get butthurt teaching staff clutching their pearls about it, but that's it. I have no memory of anyone getting in trouble for it, but that was a while ago so take that with a grain of salt. We're not supposed to get in trouble for it, but that's never stopped a crappy teacher.
As an adult, you can't legally get into trouble, but man there can be some social consequences depending on who you are and the situation.
At my rural school they threatened us with detention if we didn't say it. I never said it but I did stand silently with my hand on my heart so I didnt get in trouble.
I think the pledge is completely wrong and obnoxious.
Nothing happens. You continue your day as normal.
Constitutionally nothing just to add that. Barnette is the case and it was decided in 1943. The government can’t force anyone to say the pledge.
More than one case has solidified that. It went from religious freedom to the idea the government can't compel speech of anyone or else free speech no longer exists.
We were fussed at and called out in front of the class whenever we didn’t say it. A couple of teachers really gave me trouble for it. We also had to say it from elementary school all the way through high school. I’ve heard some people say they only did it in elementary or junior high. They couldn’t legally “force” us (and we as children couldn’t have known that), but they would do everything short of that. I never had any problem with national loyalty *per se*, but forcing children to pledge to it when they can’t even legally sign a contract or really make any other consequential decisions for themselves feels a little on the nose as far as the indoctrination train goes, and we were also in the middle of Iraq/Afghanistan the entire time I was in school from the 2nd grade on. It was a weird era.
I had a US History teacher for first period my senior year. I'm atheist and wouldn't say the pledge. He disagreed with my position but 100% supported me. He even talked to the class about it's sometimes hard to stand up for (so to speak) something you believe in, especially in the face of peer pressure. No one gave me grief about it after that because he was one of the most respected staff in the school. He'd won the state teacher of the year, in fact. Not only that, but other people then stopped saying the pledge too
> He disagreed with my position but 100% supported me. He even talked to the class about it's sometimes hard to stand up for (so to speak) something you believe in, especially in the face of peer pressure. This teacher could teach some politicians in this country what it really means to be an American. Kudos to him for imparting such a powerful lesson.
>I'm atheist and wouldn't say the pledge. I just said the original pledge and stayed silent for the unconstitutional additional lines.
That's what I started doing in high school.
based af teacher
Yeah, I was a kid who didn't ever say the Pledge because my parents had religious and ethical objections to it, and I definitely did occasionally get hassled by teachers. My ex-husband grew up Jehovah's Witness (they also don't say the Pledge) and had even more trouble, though he grew up in a much more conservative area than I did. It is illegal to force kids to say it, but there are idiot teachers who don't know that and will give you trouble. My parents had to get involved once, and my husband's parents had to intervene multiple times. I've also heard similar stories from a lot of other kids who didn't say it. Usually it isn't a big deal; I only actually had one teacher give me serious trouble about it (a few others just made me explain why I couldn't, which was super uncomfortable), but it was a big enough deal that I was switched out of his classes. I never faced any major consequences, but it was very uncomfortable. It also kind of sucks to already be the weird minority religion kid in an area, and not standing for the Pledge does make you stand out even more. If you're generally popular it doesn't matter, but if you're already in a situation where you're standing out, it can further accentuate the differences. I actually still don't really think it's a big deal, and I think better education of teachers and better administration of schools would go a long way towards fixing it, but I don't really love the practice. edit: I will add, though, on a positive note that I am kind of glad I had that experience, which is why I don't feel that strongly about it. I feel like it was good early education in standing up for my principles and knowing/asserting my rights. So there were some benefits to being the weird kid who didn't stand and recite it, too.
Man, you just brought back a memory from elementary school in the 80s. There was a kid who was a Jehovah's Witness and couldn't say the pledge, one day we had a substitute teacher and she told him to stand up and say the pledge, he manages a half hearted "I can't" and she just laid into him. I don't even remember exactly what she said, just him repeating a squeaky "I can't" a few times and seeing a tear from in the corner of his eye. I felt so bad for him.
That's fucked up. Even sadder when you remember that he went back to his home where he wasn't allowed to ever have a birthday celebration. JW kids have it rough...
>but forcing children to pledge to it when they can’t even legally sign a contract or really make any other consequential decisions for themselves feels a little on the nose as far as the indoctrination train goes When and where I learned it (New Jersey in the mid '80s), they didn't even really explain it to us. It was just a series of syllables and pauses we were taught by rote. "I pledja leejunce. Toothuh flag. Uvva United States of America." We just recited it every morning without really thinking about it. (And it sounds *really weird* if you just rattle it off without those pauses every few words.)
You're absolutely right on your thoughts on indoctrination, I'm just really amazed that I was never in a class that had to say the pledge of allegiance. Although I did go to elementary school in Oregon and we had to start our day singing "Oregon My Home" which was explained to us was written by an Oregon woman serving life in a Turkish prison for smuggling heroin. So there's that lol
[Looks like they were smuggling hash and were sentenced to to death! Luckily they were eventually freed in a prison exchange.](https://www.oregonlive.com/history/2020/08/young-oregon-woman-survived-turkish-prison-in-1970s-her-plight-immortalized-in-hit-song.html?outputType=amp) [The song is Oregon (I Can’t Go Home)](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t2c6yfSniZY)
Omg you found it! I hadn't thought of this in years! Now imagine a bunch of eight year olds singing this, it was awesome.
Ironically, it appears that the only other places around the world that have such daily pledges of allegiance are communist states or fascist dictatorships, which is what many people who insist on doing the pledges claim to be against.
[удалено]
Except for some teachers in maybe a more conservative leaning area, with maybe a husband or child that served in the military, that seems to think not saying the pledge is an immediate spit in the face of their family's service. Or maybe even just slipping over the phrasing and then being forced to write the pledge 50 times before being able to participate in class.
At most, other kids ask why. We had a kid from Brazil who didn’t say it. He was asked why and said he wasn’t a US citizen and his dad worked at the consulate. He was met with outraged cries of “oh cool! Tell us about Brazil!”
Nothing happens. You might get some holier than thou student or teacher judging you, but no one forces you to do it or punishes you for not doing it. It's voluntary. It's just that when everyone is doing it every day starting at age 6 or 7. It just becomes normal to you. Didn't really question it until I was in high school. And then I'd usually just stand for it and stay silent for the most part.
Yeah idk I agree it shouldn’t be a thing, and it’s better that it’s taken away. But I also don’t think it was this crazy insane indoctrination thing. At least not by the late 90s early 2000s. People didn’t really care if you didn’t stand up and do it outside of a few. But I also never really thought about it past “ughhhhh I have to stand up”
Same here. Grew up in Southeastern Virginia in the 2000s. It was just something we did but no one actually cared if you didn't say it. They did say something if you stayed seated, though. Besides, standing is always good for America's increasingly obese youth.
lol “I’m here for the pledge but it has nothing to do with patriotism and everything to do with obesity” Yeah your right sitters did get judged. I lowkey judged them but never said anything, but others definitely did
Nothing happens if you don’t recite it. When I was in school, some kids would stay seated and one kid would stand and face away from the flag in protest. The worst that happened was an annoyed eye-roll from the teacher.
Nothing happens. I grew up with classmates whose families were Jehovah’s Witnesses, they did not say the pledge. They st sat quietly at their desks while the rest of us did. Then we all went about our day and never thought about it.
As a teacher, I had a JW and she stood up but didn't say it. Nobody even noticed. I will say that she seemed sad about not celebrating birthdays though.
She would probably love Community. It's a pretty common theme with Donald Glover's character Troy.
Donald Glover was raised JW, though I cannot attest to his current faith. Pretty sure that's where it came from.
Oh that's what it was! We had a kid in my first grade class who stood but didn't say it or put his hand on his heart. It was first grade so I don't remember the explanation that must have been it
Freedom of speech also means freedom not to speak.
Right to remain silent
Anything you say can and will be used against you at recess
That’s not the same thing
Also called freedom of expression.
You're summarily executed. One time, our teacher realized the class pet (a hamster named Mr. FuzzFace) wasn't reciting The Pledge and shot him right then and there. We took the rest of the day off to celebrate.
'Murica.
By the time I was old enough to be able to "do something" about it, I certainly didn't care anymore. It's like asking why we don't lower the drinking age - because once you turn 21, you don't give a shit anymore about 18 year-olds not being able to drink. I can see how the pledge looks creepy and weird to outsiders, but when you grow up doing it, it's basically like mindlessly reciting a memorized poem or singing a school song or something. You go through the motions for the, what, 30 seconds it takes? and then sit down and go about your day. On a personal note, I'm incredibly opposed to the Red Scare addition of "under God" in the pledge, but I just didn't say those words. No one noticed or cared.
Yeah it’s the same in my kid’s school. They have a school song and they do that followed by the pledge. You aren’t required to do either. The school song is to this tune and I hate that I know it because it’s an ear worm if you start it. https://youtu.be/at_f98qOGY0?si=o15dWk9eqMKuYNZv (Obviously not the original but that’s the version I think of)
I don’t really find it that creepy, since from the comments i got (and from what i’ve heard before here and there) it isn’t really mandatory, so it sounds great as a bonding thing and a way to feel happy about the country, and for showing gratitude for being fortunate enough to live in a one of the better countries on this earth.
It also varies very much by state. I grew up in Georgia and always said it. My kids grew up in California and it was not at all a part of their experience. I'm not sure they even know the pledge as people in their early 20s.
That's interesting. I went to California high school for 3 years (just graduated) and they played the pledge every morning. I do live in a more conservative area though.
The schools I went to and the schools where I’ve taught, all in California, have all had the Pledge of Allegiance daily.
Looking back on it, I think it was probably helpful as an indication that school is now in session. We’d all be chatting and being kids up until the pledge started and the learned reflex told us that we had to be quiet and in our seats now.
Are you me lol
Honestly, removing the religious content from it makes it significantly less culty. Obviously the "allegiance" part still hits me a little odd, but it's definitely less uncomfortable.
School can't enforce it, but power tripping teachers freak out at you regardless and try to fuck you over anyway they can. Speaking from personal experience.
Nothing. The first amendment guarantees that.
30 years hard labor in an Alaskan fish cannery. I’m posting from one now on a bathroom break, have to get back to work now
Are you allowed to eat the fish at least?
Only if they eat it raw and wriggling like Gollum
Oh shit good luck😱
By that afternoon you'll be on a plane with a bag over your head on the way to Guantanamo Bay. As people have said it can't legally be mandatory and some schools do it, other schools don't. It also depends on the school board and the administrators at that particular point in time. When I went to school in the 80s and 90s I never did it. When my niece went to that same school in the early 2000s and 2010s they did both the US pledge and the state pledge. From what she said a lot of kids didn't do either and a few kids just did the state one to be contrarians. It's all pretty meaningless.
I did not even know states had pledges…
Yeah about a dozen or so do.
Yeah apparently RI has one > I pledge allegiance to our State Flag, and to the Republic of which Rhode Island forms a part; one Union inseparable, with honor and reverence for both State and Nation. It doesn’t seem to be anything official or commonly said. Maine and Indiana seem like they don’t.
We did it only in elementary school and has a kid I honestly didn’t care so
Liberty prime will come to smite you for being a communist
We have the First Amendment in the US which protects freedom of speech and freedom of expression, particularly when being done within a government setting which public schools would fall under. Doing whatever you feel like you need to do in expressing yourself during the time allotted for the Pledge would fall under 1A grounds as long as its respectful of others and isn't disruptive to the classroom.
Only when done in a government setting. The federal and state constitutions only protect you from government actions. A private school could absolutely require kids to make some pledge or even go to church as part of their curriculum.
Absolutely. Private schools, particularly but not exclusively those run under religious auspices, tend to be much stricter about this. Depending on the school, there can be appreciable negative repercussions for failing to toe the line. Religious services are very much a part of the Roman Catholic and Protestant systems up to and not infrequently including the college/university level.
I don’t know of any Catholic universities that require anything like that. Like Georgetown and Notre Dame aren’t requiring you to go to mass. They’ll offer it but no requirement. It’s probably different in seminary but that’s a different thing.
Straight to jail.
All those 10 year old radical protestors rotting in federal prison for not saying the pledge 🫡🫡🫡
Nothing happens. No exceptions. I see it as a commencement of the day. Like saying "good morning" to the teacher. Important to note that the flag represents the people, not the government.
>Nothing happens. No exceptions. I mean this highly depends on the teacher and school. Constitutionally, no one can force you to say it, but that doesn't mean there aren't teachers who do so anyway. They know most kids aren't gonna bother going to the courts about it.
I doubt they're getting paid enough to care, but teachers are people and some people are jerks, so you're probably right. The "no exceptions" part was in response to his question about exceptions for international students. Since nothing usually happens, there doesn't need to be an exception.
Looking at you, 7th grade PE teacher
You won't be allowed to vote until you're 18.
Having to say it every day seems culty to me. You can love your country without pledging allegiance to it EVERY DAY.
I mean, we had a 2 day break
That's why we have sharks with laser beams attached to their heads.
We get sent to gulags and do hard labor for 3 years and fined $90k Absolutely nothing. No one cares bro
Kids who have been force fed propaganda will insult you probably. Other than that, nothing.
Nothing happens. By high school most students had stopped participating in it and no one cared. Some teachers *might* tell you to stop talking (about whatever personal conversation you were having) while it was being said, but that was about it. I view the entire concept as some sort of bizarre theater/archaic indoctrination attempt that I don't think has inspired anyone in the past 50 years.
I don't even remember saying it passed elementary school (Late 80s- early 90s). Pretty sure we weren't saying it by 6th grade on. Maybe it came back after 9/11, but I was already graduated and in the Army by that point. Seeing it from another's perspective, I can see how it seems weird. As a little kid, I didn't think anything of it though because it was our normal morning routine.
i don't think we *ever* said it when i was growing up (90s/00s NYC), with the one exception of in the aftermath of 9/11. i remember it then.
The most consequences I’ve seen is a teacher or student telling you to do it
Nothing, no one cares.
>no one cares. That's not really true. The entire reason we had a Supreme Court case on this point is specifically because a lot of nationalist ultraChristians care and want to enforce it on everyone else.
I meant no one in the classroom is going to do anything about it.
That's also what I mean. If you go to school in an upper middle class New York suburb, sure, likely absolutely nothing is going to happen and nobody in the class will care. Of you go to school in a blue collar small town in Alabama? You *probably* won't be officially punished because of the Supreme Court case, but you probably will be ostracized and bullied for it behind the scenes.
Kids don't get in trouble or anything if that is what you are asking. Where I live, it's not as common to do anymore. The school I teach in they only do it for veterans day.
nothing other than a few pain in the ass teachers yelling at you. I refused after elementary school because I didn't like saying it. I had one sub become upset because of the military or something in middle school. another in my senior year of high school just because alot of people wouldn't stand in our class. he wanted to know if we had reasons, which I did, but didn't really mind as long as you knew what you were sitting or standing for.
Beatings. Frequent and severe beatings. The teachers basically jump you in like they're Crips or Bloods. Either get with the Red, White and Blue, or you'll be left red, black and blue.
I pledge allegiance… to the band.
Literally nothing. I am personally indifferent, but completely encourage and will support anyone who is morally or religiously opposed to it from having to do so.
I never once said it as a kid (not as some political protest, but because of anxiety issues) and no one ever said a thing. Not from kindergarten through high school. But I did stand up while everyone else said it, so probably most people didn't notice.
No consequences at all. I stopped saying it a long time ago. I still stand up to be respectful, but don't say anything.
When I was in high school, someone absolutely got sent to the principal for refusing to say the pledge. But it was a thing where it was clearly in protest as they normally said it but were refusing that day. That teacher was also the worst educator I ever had. He was meant to be a football coach, they shouldn’t make coaches teach history, or anything really, to keep their jobs. The Jehovah’s Witnesses were exempt from the pledge with no issue.
By the time I was in middle school, my class would just stand and remain silent. In high school, probably half of my teachers didn’t care if you stood or not. Even if they didn’t like you sitting, there was literally nothing they could do about it
Nothing. I stopped reciting it in kindergarten and never did again.
In theory, nothing. Based on my experience, your kindergarten teacher yells at you. We didn’t do the pledge in preschool so I was super confused about it.
Nothing. I never did as a kid because it seemed creepy and authoritarian. It made me uncomfortable even as a 7 year old. I never got in trouble for it.
I knew a Jehovah's Witness kid who never said it. No one cares.
Officially, nothing. It's against the law for the school to force students to stand and recite the pledge. Unofficially, you can be bullied and ridiculed by other students, and perhaps even the teacher, especially in conservative areas.
I haven’t been in school in a long time. But I used to stand and not say it or put my hand on my heart. Nothing happens. As long as you aren’t disruptive, it would be fine.
I would stand but remain silent... not really out of contempt for anything in those days really I just got tired of saying it.
It's not mandatory, hence the last line, "with liberty and justice for all"
Nothing happens as it's not mandatory.
You're brought out back, and kidnapped. You are then brought to the trial of chambers where they find new and horrible ways to punish and torment the human body. You will meet your end there. You are replaced with a genetic clone, he will mimic you, he will become You, YOU WILL CEASE TO EXIST!
Nothing happens, nobody would even notice.
You die of course
Ronald McDonald and the Kool-Aid Man bust through the wall and beat you until you do.
A public school can't force someone to participate. There's a cultural assumption that foreign students just wouldn't participate anyway (why would they?)
Nothing, and I have never had to recite it daily either. We only did it once per week during the full school assembly
Did it for most of my time in Elementary, Middle, and High school. International students obviously didn’t have to do it, but it was generally considered weird and unpatriotic if you were a citizen but chose not to. Its a hold over from the Cold War. Plus, we’re a nation composed of many more differing groups than others were in the past, so it made sense to have something to tie us all together as one nation.
Not everyone participates, I even remember a few kids in the 80's (I learned later they were Jehovah’s Witnesses) actually left the room every time we said the pledge and stood in the hallway. Nobody bothered them about it.
Taken out back and shot obviously. No nothing happens and no one cares
I did my senior year of high school in the USA. Before that all my young schooling came from a south american country, where pretty much every school sang the national anthem on weekly school wide assemblies, generally on Mondays. You wear a nicer uniform that day, and everyone in the school meets somewhere to do this. I remember being so surprised that kids could just sit during the pledge of allegiance and not reciting in the USA, nothing really happens if you dont recite it.
I'm not crazy about the pledge of allegiance in school, but nothing happens if you don't recite it. At worst, a teacher will get annoyed and call you out, and I've seen this happen, but that's it.
West Virginia v. Barnette is a Supreme Court case from 1943 that solidified the right to not stand or pledge the flag. It is literally illegal to force students to stand or pledge the flag in American public schools. Not that most kids know this. I learned it in a prelaw class in college (that convinced me not to go into law!) So, they can't force you to stand or say the pledge, but they do teach it to us really young, and I can honestly say that they never, ever take the time to teach you what the heck it means. I can also say, that peer pressure is utilized thoroughly here, and if you try to sit through the pledge, you are likely to get the stink eye from a classmate. Or at least you were back when I was in high school. I can also say that we only said the pledge a handful of times after elementary school, and almost all of them were in the weeks following 9/11.
I never said it once in High School. Nothing happened. If a teacher asked, I'd say some smart ass thing like "I would pledge allegiance to The Constitution but not a blanket."
Shot on sight
Death
West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (1943) established that the first amendment means children in school cannot be forced to stand for it recite the pledge. Jehovah's witnesses, for example, follow religious rules that forbid them from saluting or pledging symbols. So forcing them to say the pledge or salute the flag is a religious issue. In my kid's school, they say something to the effect of "now you can recite the pledge if you'd like to" so that children know they have a choice.
Nothing. Most people at my high school didn’t. It always happened during homeroom so everyone was just chatting with each other
Your limited freedoms of expression while in school still protect you from being forced to recite the pledge. However, as my government professor liked to put it, freedom of expression is not freedom from consequences. While the school cannot legally punish you, your classmates “can.”
Nothing we didn’t even do it at any of my schools lol
You get sent to jail
I know the pledge is a popular topic for foreigners and I certainly can't speak for every school in America, but this is only something we did in elementary school. By the time I was really old enough to think about it, I didn't have to think about it anymore. If people want to do it, fine; if people are opposed to doing it, fine. Never seen anyone penalized for not reciting it.
Nothing should happen. You may well be less popular with other students and some teachers.
Nothing happens. You're not required to participate in the pledge, and have not since 1943. Are there rare exceptions where schools try to arbitrarily pull some bullshit? Yes. But those schools/districts also get promptly slapped down the near moment the issue reaches a courtroom.
The sky will collapse.
Some teachers would get pissed. One time in 7th grade, my regular teacher was running late so they threw in a teacher who had a free period who was a us history teacher and had a son in the miltary. The morning announcements ended with the pledge and we half assed it. The guy got extremely pissed and yelled at us talking about how people like his son are out there risking their lives for our freedoms and as children of immigrants cuz we were all hispanic we were even lucky to be in the us and we couldnt be bothered to say the pledge right. Then he made us say it nice and loud twice and got up in my face as I basically screamed it. This was like 2006-2007. Then another time in 10th grade, some people sat during it and the teacher got mad that we could at least stand up for it.
Nothing. As for my opinion, I'm not for it. I don't care if my students sit or stand, but I sit.
Nothing happens. In my state, the law says that schools must go through the motion of the pledge of allegiance at the beginning of each school day, but students/staff do not have to participate. The law does say, "students not reciting the pledge shall maintain a respectful silence."
Within the bounds of the law? Literally nothing. In the most extreme cases? Someone hassles you. In most cases I'm aware of? Nothing. Honestly, most classes had at least one person who was either trying to take a nap through it or was just standing and saying nothing because they didn't want to be the only one sitting Edit: Also, it only happened during the first class, so it's not like it intruded on the day
In high school they stopped requiring us to, some people still stood and recited it but most people just stayed sitting and doing their work Before that, most people just did it automatically. If you stayed seated the teacher would ask you to at least stand but that’s it
Nothing. It is illegal for them to act on it, and if you're up to it you could cause them a load of headaches if they give you trouble for it.
I used to get yelled at in elementary school for not doing it. When I got into middle school and high school they didn’t care anymore and they didn’t even do the pledge.
Many schools don’t even do it anymore. I’m a teacher in NYC and we’ve never done the pledge of allegiance. As a child in NJ in the 90s, we used to recite it. However, I noticed it gradually declined in the 2000s. The last time I remember doing it as a student was in the mid 2000s (several students were mocking it and laughing). Nothing happens if you don’t do it.
Nothing
Nothing. I used to totally ignore it when I was in high school like an edgelord. Then 9/11 happened my senior year and I felt a lot different about the whole thing. I still didn’t say the ‘under god’ part.
Nothing. I'm a teacher and don't bother with either the US Pledge or the Texas Pledge. Yes, Texas requires both but oops, never quite get around to it. Darn.
What should happen is nothing. What very occasionally happens is you get your right not to stepped on by an uninformed and/or malicious members of the school staff.
By middle school most people were just sort of mumbling through it, and my by high school I don’t really remember anyone saying it out loud. Every homeroom teacher I had still made us stand up for it, though. So stupid.
At least where I lived in Ohio, Elementary we "had" to say it (but we didn't really know there was a choice lol), Junior High some teachers would call you out and if you goofed off you could get a writeup. Aside from like, once or twice in High School they never even did it over the PA. All the classrooms still had a flag, but morning announcements took all of a minute total.
I don’t think many schools recite it anymore.
Once my kid got a new high school principal who said he was making a new rule everyone had to stand for the pledge. By the end of the day we had notification that the rule was called off. I assume a civics teacher got to him before I did.
Execution. It’s a terrible shame but rules are rules. All the kids line up outside the school and are given assault rifles (if they don’t have their own on them) and made to execute the student who didn’t recite the pledge. It’s a bit traumatic at first but This is America.
Teacher here. Nothing happens. If a student decides to not say the pledge they won’t get in trouble.
Some people will just think you’re annoying other than that, literally nothing
I be half sitting at ky desk bc I didn’t wanna stand and I would just stare at the board until we could sit again. Nothing happened. It was just 30 seconds of ppl doing the pledge and then I sat down
I used to get in trouble for that in the mid-late ‘90s but this was in a small conservative Southern town. It was mainly verbal reprimands & getting sent to the hall. Those same teachers & admin were on a serious anti-LGBTQIA kick too, a friend got in trouble for wearing rainbow shoelaces
NOVA is diverse. I was friends with a boy who's father worked at the Canadian embassy downtown and I don't think a single teacher gave him stink about not standing or reciting. Few made a stink but most didn't care.
Depends on the school. Usually nothing. Sometimes a teacher feeling "patriotic" might get in their feelings and take issue, at which case it may escalate up administration until it runs into someone who knows what the constitution is.
If you live in a conservative place, your teachers and fellow students will hate you and treat you like shit. Back in the 90s we were sent to the principal or even suspended.
Nothing. I always left out the “under God” line. Still do whenever the pledge is done - mostly events for my kids’ schools.
Nothing. I didn’t say it through most of my schooling.
A friend of mine in school refused to say the Pledge for religious reasons. When everyone stood to recite it, he just stood silently. Some people asked him why, but he was never punished for it.
Nothing.
Jimmy V. and I spent third and fourth grade trying to be just a little louder than each other during the Pledge. He always sat next to me (I'm a W) so we were "the brass section" of the morning Pledge. That annoyed the teachers a lot more than the kids who stayed silent.
By about 3rd or 4th grade almost nobody said it. We stood there and mumbled sounds that went along with the principal on the PA. It wasn’t a political protest…it was a mandatory, boring and silly chore nobody cared about. The goal was to pretend to go along so you wouldn’t be hassled. I do the same at sporting events to this day for the national anthem. Forced patriotism doesn’t get much passion out of anyone .
nothing. it was just sorta normal to us to do it, though. i was a notorious atheist as a kid and even i did the pledge.
Nothing happens also it's incredibly uncommon these days. I stopped reciting the pledge in school in the mid 2000s and didn't do it once in high school during the early 2010s. Like not me choosing not to, the school just didn't do it.
A question I am uniquely prepared for! When and where: 2006/2007 Midwest US. Middle School. This is important because part of the reaction is a holdover from the overwhelming pro-america post 9/11 attitude that was and is still prevalent. My school made me sit in my councilor's office and I was interrogated by a small group of administrative adults in the building (councilor, principal, one teacher, one secretary). They took away my computer privileges. This was when Wisconsin was rolling out the laptop program to see how it would perform in schools so it had a heavy impact on my schoolwork. My homeroom teacher went on a LONG rant about how disrespectful it is to not stand for the pledge of allegiance, particularly about how it was disrespectful to everyone who had ever served our country. He didn't explain why we had to have this lecture to the class. He did not single me out, either. For most of the kids, this whole thing came out of nowhere. Several teachers started treating me worse. They made it all about me hating my country. I wish I were fucking joking. There was no code of conduct policy that made it mandatory to stand. The school just decided that this was appropriate. My mom never bothered to go to my school to advocate for me or even ask for an explanation. So I just stayed like that until I graduated.
In my school, the teacher would prod you to stand. If you didn't, you were expected to have a religious excuse. If you still didn't, you might get uncomfortable laughter from classmates or a bit of teasing. I grew up in a conservative area so there was definitely peer pressure to not appear "anti-American." I don't think any formal discipline could occur but there were definitely social consequences.
A bald eagle lands on your head and pecks your eyes out and then Smokey the Bear pummels you to death with an American flag on a pole.
Does your country have a national anthem? Is it ever played before sporting events? It's about like that, but for young schoolchildren. Most people stand for the anthem right? Some are enthusiastic about it, most don't really care. Many will choose not to stand for various reasons. Most anthems have lyrics that, when read literally, sound really creepy and disturbing. Like do I pledge to fill rivers with blood? Probably not. Am I gonna slit my enemies' throats? Uhhh, I'm just trying to watch a tennis match bro. Right? The only people who are taking the US pledge literally are non-Americans.
Nothing. I stopped reciting it in 2nd grade because I thought it was creepy, and I didn’t like the “under god” part (I was not raised in a household that practices religion). My middle school and high school didn’t have the pledge as part of our daily routine so it wasn’t an issue after elementary school. I still don’t recite it as an adult. I work in local government and it is recited before every Council meeting. I just stand there with my hands behind my back like I have for 20+ years and no one cares.
Nothing. I used to just silently mumble a bit lol
Nothing can happen to you. It isn’t required, but in reality there are always cases of teachers who are ignorant or just indignant about it, and who abuse students who don’t.
nothing. teacher might fuss but they can't do anything
I never recited it in all my years of schooling in the 80s and 90s.
So long as you are not actively disruptive nothing. If you are distracting other students or preventing them from doing it then you can be punished.
I’m surprised by all these “nothing happens” comments. My kid was harassed by his teachers and told “You have to say the pledge!” every day for almost a whole school year. He stuck to his rights and continued to stay silent during the pledge. Near the very end of the year, a different teacher made a point of teaching his class that saying the pledge was optional, and my kid’s classmates all stared at him in shock.
Despite everyone saying nothing happens, I've had several teachers (usually substitutes) attempt to give out consequences. Other students have talked them down.
Straight to jail.
Other kids will be like "wtf why aren't you standing?" and the teacher will yell at you to stop distracting everyone. Most kids recite it without really thinking about the words, so if someone chooses not to, people will think we're just trying to rebel, and not understand why we might have a moral or religious objection to it. For a few years, my elementary school replaced the pledge with exercise videos.
As a teenager I submitted a rewritten pledge of allegiance about how it was indoctrination and brainwashing and cultish. I wrote it in cursive on tea stained paper and burned the edges. Good Times. Good Times. I got an A-.
Nothing. In elementary school everyone did it because you were a little kid and it was just seen as a thing of tradition. By the time you get older, you usually care about it less and less. I remember by Middle School, most stopped paying attention and by High School, very few actually did it anymore. I remember sometimes the teacher would just continue the lesson while the pledge was being said. I'm indifferent to it as an adult, if they keep it that's fine and if they remove it, that's fine.
When I was in school we didn’t have to recite it but we had to at least stand and face the flag, students who didn’t were given 3 warnings then it would be detention or ISS
As a kid, I sat down for the pledge one day and lost my recess. But I think I could have just stood but not say anything without punishment, but I never tried.
Uncle Sam sends you to Guantanamo
[This](https://youtu.be/pGcwRnQUmUw?si=ORP9FgYlQ_eKBGj-) is the worst that will ever happen unless you’re being disruptive.
Do they still say the pledge in schools? 🤯 When I was in elementary school in the 80s we did, but not in high school. I assumed they didn’t do it anymore (don’t have kids so no recent experience with it). Anyway even back in the 80s no one cared, one of my friends was Jehovahs Witness and they didn’t say it. Not sure what would have happened if a kid without an official religious exemption didn’t want to say it. Probably nothing, although maybe the teacher would have told them to. I personally find it creepy and North Korea-esque and hoped they didn’t do it anymore.
Depends on the teacher and the school. More times then not, especially now, nothing happens, you carry on as usual. When I was in school (this was at the end of 2014 or so) however, I do remember a kid didn't stand up for the pledge once, just to be an ass not for any given reason, and the teacher had a huge meltdown going on a long lecture about loving our troops and our country, threatening to call the principal and some veterans she knew to talk to him if it happened again.
Trapdoor into a pit of crocodiles.
Nothing. I would stay seated for it in high school and my teachers didn't care.
I went to high school in the '90s, when it was considered terminally uncool to care about anything. Maybe two or three kids in a class of 25 would stand and recite it.
I grew up in Sacramento, CA, and we used to say the pledge every morning. There were a handful of kids who wouldn't do it tho and they were always either Ukrainian, Russian, or Jehova's Witnesses. I don't think the Ukrainian and Russian kids didn't do it because they weren't originally from there tho, I think it might have also been a religious thing as well (Russian Orthodox?) but I'm not totally sure. Either way, nothing happened to them and the teachers always told us not to harass them for not doing it. It might be a little different in places like rural Texas tho.
You are not legally required to recite the Pledge. Teachers legally can't do anything about it. If a teacher tries to punish the student, that's unconstitutional and you have a 1st Amendment lawsuit on your hands.
After 2020 I don’t recite the pledge and used to sit it out when I was in school. Nowadays it doesn’t come up often but I’ll stand out of respect but I don’t recite, put my hand on my chest, or face the flag. No one has ever said anything or mentioned it to me. I’ve had some friends that got “in trouble” for not standing during school but I think it was more so just the teacher bitching at them and not any actual trouble.
In San Francisco they give you an award In Dallas they give you a beating In Detroit nothing happens because nobody's actually in school
My schools never did the pledge, except for my 8th grade year. That year the teacher who did the morning announcements over the intercom decided to do the pledge as a part of that. Most people stood, and a few mumbled along, but it was never the expectation that everyone had to join in, or anything. A bunch of students weren't even Americans, so it would be exceptionally weird to make them pledge allegiance to a country that they were only visiting. I live in an area that's particularly liberal and non-religious, so my experiences tend to be a little different than many other Americans, but the pledge isn't a universal feature of schools here.
Some teachers get icky about it if you don’t, but for the most part nothing at all. You don’t even need to stand
Depends on your school. I got screamed at when I didn’t stand.
I for one got in trouble for it. I'd imagine it depends on your teacher. Also I was 15 when 9/11 happened and in school, I'd guess they were more patriotic about it then. But for me that was a breaking point about many things. Mainly how it was leveraged to.invade Iraq, how they also had nukes so it was totally cool, and how everyone just chose to be complacent with an evil government. I was suspended, placed in detention and asked to not come to homeroom until they finish the pledge of allegiance. I have always been very stubborn and stick to my own code. So their tactics did not sway me as you can maybe tell from them trying to get me to wait it out (I did not).
Nothing happens, it's all just brainwashing
You got detention at my school. It’s very creepy and cult-like forcing kids to say it every day.
Nothing
At my High School pretty much nobody did the pledge, and many teachers just talked over it
When I was in school in the 80s and 90s, you'd get butthurt teaching staff clutching their pearls about it, but that's it. I have no memory of anyone getting in trouble for it, but that was a while ago so take that with a grain of salt. We're not supposed to get in trouble for it, but that's never stopped a crappy teacher. As an adult, you can't legally get into trouble, but man there can be some social consequences depending on who you are and the situation.
At my rural school they threatened us with detention if we didn't say it. I never said it but I did stand silently with my hand on my heart so I didnt get in trouble. I think the pledge is completely wrong and obnoxious.