U = U. I understand you're coming here possibly looking for advice from folks who may have knowledge or experience to share. I recommend also having an open conversation with your potential new beau in addition to speaking with a LGBTQ+ friendly HIV healthcare provider. Get the facts and flex your communication muscle early.
You're most welcome ❤ It's a green flag to me that he disclosed up front so likely open to the convo. Kudos to you though for taking it on yourself to be knowledgeable.
totally agree. I met my now husband just over six years ago. He's poz/undetectable, I'm neg. I still do prep, but mostly because we're a bit open. It took me a little bit to adjust, but he's a wonderful person and I'm really glad I married him. I almost don't think about that aspect of our relationship anymore, and haven't for a long time. HIV is not the spectre it was in the 90's. It's a whole new world now.
BTW, the technical term for poz/neg couples is "serodiscordant". The colloquial term is "magnetic".
Lastly, I think u/Dfen218 advice is spot on. I'm just adding a bit :)
Been with my husband for 10 years married for 7. He was HIV+ when we started dating. I haven't been on prep and we don't use condoms. He's been undetectable the entirety of our relationship and I've had no chance of contracting it as long as he stays undetectable.
We have a very normal relationship. Literally dating someone who is HIV+ won't feel any different. You gotta get over the stigma that society has put on it because things are nowhere near the same as what they used to be.
So I read that some people’s medication they can become resistant to it and as a result their undetectable status falters.
What are the warning signs of this occurring, ssh he goes for a three month checkup and they discover it…
People with HIV are regularly required by their doctors to continuously test their levels to maintain their undetectable status to continue receiving medication. If their levels ever did fluctuate, the doctors would catch it before it was ever an issue.
Additionally, the only time I've heard of people becoming resistant to medications is when they contract another strain of HIV from someone else whose HIV was being treated with a certain medication.
I would honestly look up and see what the numbers and data behind people becoming resistant to their medication is and if you might just be worried for nothing because I haven't heard of that happening very often at all.
Resistance develops when you don't adhere to the meds regimen. Which i did for various reasons, none of them my fault. I take three different meds, one of which has three different drugs in it.
https://www.sfaf.org/collections/beta/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-hiv-drug-resistance/
I just learned some stuff too so thank you. This link is a great read for what you brought up.
3 months is plenty of time to see this on blood tests before it poses any risk to you.
My partner is checked every 9-12 months.
This never happened during any of the PARTNER studies.
Undetectable is set at a very low level, there’s a lot of leeway here.
A few people in the partner studies did become detectable
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(19)30418-0/fulltext
"viral load in the HIV-positive partner more than 200 copies per mL (19 [4%])"
And none of them were infected due to their partner in the study. They went out and fucked someone else with HIV and were infected that way. There were no cases of HIV in the test group that were related to the undetectable partner.
"15 new HIV infections occurred during eligible couple-years of follow-up, but none were phylogenetically linked within-couple transmissions, resulting in an HIV transmission rate of zero (upper 95% CI 0·23 per 100 couple-years of follow-up)."
It's not referring to transmission of hiv, but to the likelihood of someone with treated undetectable hiv reverting to detectable levels, which was what I was originally replying to
"15 new HIV infections occurred during eligible couple-years of follow-up, but none were phylogenetically linked within-couple transmissions, resulting in an HIV transmission rate of zero (upper 95% CI 0·23 per 100 couple-years of follow-up)."
That's not what this passage says
So for someone taking medications daily, resistance would appear like a slow uptrending of the viral load, not a spike. Allowing for time for people to switch their medications. This is because the viral proteins gradually change shape and the medications that prevent viral replication become less effective. This can happen eventually. It happens faster if someone takes medications inconsistently, because each time the medication is withdrawn, surviving viruses multiply-- like an evolutionary selective pressure. If someone has a spike in their viral load, in the space of say 3 months, it would likely be from not taking the medications.
The detectable HIV partner was ineligible for the study.
"Couple-years of follow-up could be **ineligible for one or more reasons**; the choice of primary reason for ineligibility was prioritised in the following order: (1) PEP or PrEP used; (2) HIV-negative partner (or the HIV-positive partner if the HIV-negative partner did not reply) reported no condomless sex; (3)**most recent viral load of HIV-positive partner more than 200 copies per mL;** (4) data on sexual behaviour missing; (5) no viral load available in the past year for each day in the time period; and (6) no HIV test from the HIV-negative partner at the end of the time period or later in time."
The study doesn't concern non-adherence. For whatever reason it occurred be it: drug holiday, inability to take medication, forgetfulness.
Yes, I think that strengthens the results of the study, because even when the viral loads of participants strayed higher than 200 copies/ml there was still no transmission documented to their partners. This 200 level is an arbitrary number, based on older methods of detecting viral RNA with less precision. Science can't give us an actual threshold value for transmission to occur. This study shows at easily achievable and maintanable levels of viral suppression, (below 200 copies) there is no scientifically documented transmission to a partner.
3 months is plenty of time to see this on blood tests before it poses any risk to you.
My partner is checked every 9-12 months.
This never happened during any of the PARTNER studies.
Undetectable is set at a very low level, there’s a lot of leeway here.
Can I ask, do you ever have doubts / fear not using prep with your HIV+ partner? Or have times where you’re taken out of the moment during sex, thinking “what if”?
I worry that I wouldn’t be able to overcome the emotional vs logical/factual mentality if I was in a long term relationship similar to yours. Would welcome any wisdom or advice.
So at the start like 10 years ago, I was. Mostly because I didn't know as much about HIV and there wasn't as many studies about transmission rate while on medication. However, a few years in and u = u came along using data from 2008-2016 from hundreds of thousands of couples where one was HIV+ and the other wasn't on prep showing that not a single person had been infected if the partner was undetectable.
So I've had several partners who have had HIV, and with protection hasn't been an issue. My husband is + and currently undetectable. I've been with my husband for almost 12 years, and the key to managing HIV is communicating and trusting them. I don't *see* My husband take his pill daily but I trust him.
There are 3 things
1. Is he on medication? If he's undetectable, the answer is "yes."
2. Does he want to use condoms? Do you want to use them? (some use them as an additional precaution even if they're on PREP)
3. Do you want to use PREP?
1) yes he is on medication
1a) we didn’t discuss but he said “he’s doing good” — I plan to discuss in greater detail in a more private setting.
2) haven’t discussed
2a) at first yes, but I’d kind of like to go to a doctor together so they can verify his undetectable status to me, but, I don’t know if that’s pushing a boundary that he may be uncomfortable with.
3) I’m already on PREP and have been for several years.
Going to his doctor with him is a bit invasive. U=U. Plus if you’re really worried, just maintain your prep and you’ll be completely protected. My partner (HIV+)’s doctor said I could be on prep if I was worried but with the fact that there would be testing every 3 months that my partner would do, I would have nothing to worry about even if I wasn’t on prep. I was in it just in case but stopped after a year.
Be on prep and don’t worry. Once things get serious and you build more trust (which you definitely should), then you can stop taking it if you want.
I’m still negative 9 years later. Never used condoms.
i agreed with your approach here as you can’t simply take ppl word on face value because if he miss his daily medication that will have consequences later on but i think this option have to be used when you both comfortable to proceed to next stages of relationship as it is still early days
I’m unclear on why you think OP, so explains that he’s been on prep for years would need to take any one word.
Whether the guy is detectable or not, OP is protected. That’s the beauty of prep - you don’t need to trust any one, any doctor, any lab results. You’re protected
only for hiv and if you take it regularly and if you stop then you won’t be anymore . it also about trust if they guy can’t come clean about his status . make you wonder what else he is hiding and if he is really on prep as that is red flag for me
he only told him after OP started talking about prep and health . if he didn’t mention it then the guy probably wont say anything .
did you read the part where OP said he probably wont go out with he guy if he have told him during chatting phase . usually it when you tell ppl that your positive and if you are ok with it and not during the date . that was what i meant if it wasn’t clear the first time
it was the first date and they weren’t even about to have sex. no positive guys do not need to tell anyone about their status when they are chatting. you need to get a fucken grip.
I’m unclear why you think you need to visit his doctor together.
Even if this guy is detectable- you’re taking prep so you’re covered.
You’ve really got to drop this idea that this guy has something “wrong” with him that he needs to explain/reassure you about. He told you the facts. Facts that are actually nice to know, but not necessary, because you’re taking prep and you’re protected, whether he undetectable or not.
You’ve been on prep and you still are worried about hiv? I’m not clear on what you thought you were taking prep for?
That's a little disingenuous. Someone on prep might still actively avoid sleeping with someone who is positive, and consider it merely a precautionary step for instances where they might not know.
That's a perfectly valid mind set to have. Just because you have a bullet proof vest on doesn't mean you walk around telling people to try and shoot you.
And I say all that as someone negative dating someone positive. Don't bully people.
Just shows you can’t be curious on Reddit.
I said I was curious. I didn’t say OP was being ridiculous or any other negative connotations.
And your analogy is not even the same thing.
OP doesn’t have to date anyone he doesn’t want to, and I didn’t say that he should do otherwise.
If he is on regular medication snd undetectable, and you are taking prep and use a condom. That is way safer than most of the casual sex than most people are having .
Focus on you and your health and taking your medicating and using condoms and all is good.
You have also been on ONE DATE
You discuss potential partner. It's unclear If u mean this as sleeping with him as a sexual partner or you are already weighing up what it would be to have him as a long term partner.
Just be mindful how much information this gentleman actually owes you and how much you may feel entitled too, and any mismatch within this
Many guys find it quite off-putting when on a date and some lad is discussing long term future or projecting their own perceptions on to what has just been one or two dates.
You're falling victim to stigma.
Get on with the relationship or friendship and stop being scared by something that is a non-issue.
If you're concerned about HIV, get on prep.
If you're concerned about having a partner with a "health condition" I suggest you also start becoming concerned with every other medical condition a future partner could have.
if he's on medication and his viral load is undetectable you can't catch hiv from him. there will be wilfully ignorant people that will try to tell you that all the research and studies into it are wrong and that there is a risk but they're just spreading misinformation and fear.
if, for your peace of mind, you would want to be on prep then you should, but if it's a fear of your potential partner you should talk to them and read some published articles on the issue.
I think there remains a huge stigma regarding HIV and relationships. It really wasn’t until someone I really liked and kinda wanted a relationship with ended up positive that my attitude changed. I was faced with the reality that the person didn’t change. He was the same loveable gregarious person I knew from before and once I made that leap I was fine with it. So long as someone is under treatment and achieves an undetectable viral load it’s perfectly safe to have sex with them. I can understand the trepidation and if you’re not 100% sure stay on the prep. In the beginning when you are starting to develop the trust it takes to be in a relationship you’ll naturally want to be guarded and take precautions until you’ve peeled back the layers and feel you have gotten to know him well enough to trust him. At that point you can decide to either stay on or go off the prep. Until then treat him like a human being and get to know him for the person he is versus the managed disease he has
I appreciate your willingness to acknowledge your lack of knowledge on this topic. If I were in a similar situation, I would recommend reaching out to a reputable prep provider or consulting informative YouTube videos for guidance. Personally, I used to hold some preconceived notions before starting my own prep regimen, but now that I'm on it, those stigmas no longer concern me. I'm aware that being undetectable means being unable to transmit the virus, and it appears that individuals with undetectable viral loads also tend to be nice lovers.
Also I strongly believe that in this instance you should educate yourself. Watch YouTube videos. Read online resources and faq.
In a way, imo, he’s not obligate to teach you.
I added to my comment that you SHOULD (yes should) educate yourself on HIV and undetectable status. U=U
He’s not obligated to educate you. Sorry if that sounds harsh.
On the topic of U=U, here’s some further “education” that justifies OP’s totally legitimate concerns.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-hiv-idUSKBN1ZM30H
OP comments that he’s been on prep for years, so he doesn’t need to be concerned with any of this. He’s protected.
But your point stands - NEVER trust your health to someone else. You (alone) are responsible and the best way to protect against hiv is taking prep
U=U is true.
Having worked on many HIV+ patients over the past several years, not everyone who believes they are U is *actually* U.
Not everyone reliably takes medications, and even those that do can have their supply disrupted for reasons outside of their control. This is true for HIV patients, but also birth control, diabetes, autoimmune disease, heart disease, even cancer patients.
Hell, diabetes treatment compliance is so poor, the A1C was developed to specifically monitor a patient's long-term glucose levels, you can't game an A1C result like you can game glucose strips. And mismanaging diabetes can literally kill, or lead to amputations and organ failure.
I wouldn't trust someone's medication compliance unless I'm actively monitoring their weekly pill sorter.
I have several friends in +/- relationships.
You're already on PreP, if he's being treated and undetectable you should be fine. The few times I've had sex w + men, I've required condoms just to alleviate my own anxiety.
If you like this guy, give the relationship a chance.
Poz here, I’ve been in a relationship with a neg fella for 18 years. I’m a top and we have never used condoms. I take my meds. You decide for you but the meds work.
Use it as an opportunity to have a conversation with him.
Just say you’re ignorant and want to learn, but do have some fear.
You’re not likely to catch anything
Idk, there should be some education they could do, yeah? I had to ask a friend who was positive to help me understand and they gave me tons of resources. It’s not they’re a minority race or it’s a disability, but maybe that’s me now and I forgot how weird some of my questions could have been
OP can educate himself and then have a meaningful and informed discussion with his date. Gay men have a responsibility to understand STI’s, and HIV if they are going to have unprotected sex. I would go so far as to say men should assume everyone they have sex with has HIV and act accordingly.
Please ask any questions that matter to you and go from there. I am sure it varies from person to person, but as long as a dialogue has been started, take advantage and speak. Engaged communication from both parties? You can only benefit from this!
Why don’t you just ask him? Tell him you would like to learn more about it since you are going to be seeing each other. It is a neat way to remove the tension, you can ask all the stupid questions you might have and he will probably like you even more for it.
Good luck!
In a lot of ways; your safer than not knowing. He’s non-dectable; your on PREP. All data is on the table. It would be worse if you did something unprotected and didn’t know. Have fun; make sure those two data points don’t change. No reason to mak a big deal out of it. I have a friend who’s undetectable; I’m on PREP I used to be manic about it and I can’t wait for him to use that big Latin cock on me.:))). No fear like I used to; but I have all the info that makes that possible. It’s the unknown that makes us crazy.
Great question. That’s what this sub is about.
You already know it. He’s HIV+ and he’s undetectable. It’s good you’re on PrEP but isn’t necessary if your relationship is monogamous and you trust each other. As a POZ man when my dates get weird about HIV I like to remind them if you’re having sex with multiple partners the odds are you are going to have sex with an HIV+ guy. Either he says he’s negative but hasn’t been tested recently so may be poz but doesn’t know it yet. He’s poz but lies about it. Or he’s poz and uses treatment as prevention as well as being undetectable.
If you are on prep you most likely already had sex with hiv+ people who even had transmissible status. And indetectable makes it intransmissible so why make it an issue now.
Others will have more information, but next time I suggest that you just ask him directly since he knows more than you. Show some curiosity and open-mindedness. I know that a lot has changed over the past 10+ years and stigmas are usually based on misinformation.
Yeah. He brought it up. Plus there's nothing wrong to asking about details about how health works in public. There are easily ways to talk about health without it being specific to the person. It's not like health issues are completely taboo and can't be spoken about...
That's fine. But then again, it sounds like shame all around. Worth digging into on your end. There's absolutely nothing wrong with talking about health in general in public (I can see a line being drawn when it's about someone specifically). Something to consider...
I think the only thing you need to know is that many POZ guys carry some psychological baggage, and may occasionaly need some extra support or to vent. And no matter how much he's internalized U=U, there will always be some tiny doubt in a far corner of his mind, and that can manifest in a variety of ways. But if he has a healthy attitude about having the disease, there shouldn't be any problems.
Source: tested poz, as I knew I would, shortly after things were getting serious with my now husband. In a couple of weeks we'll celebrate the 31st anniversary of our "not a wedding" ceremony. So you should be able to manage a relationship.
I applaud you for putting his own health FIRST! Don’t let anyone make you feel guilty for prioritizing your well-being and wanting to remain negative!!!
No problem being HIV+ and U=U… but don’t have sex until you are sure he’s in fact undetectable. Just not worth risking your health
Don't listen to those who call you ignorant or judgemental ..be who you are and you have the right to choose what you want..it's your life , stop feeling bad for how you really feel but doesn't hurt to ask your doctor and that will help you make a solid decision.
I’m HIV + and have been undetectable for almost 10 years. I take my medication regularly and get tested every 3 months and have never come back with a bad result.
My partner and I are in an open relationship and he is not on Prep but gets regular tests. We’ve never used condoms together and he’s never had any issues.
HIV of today is not like the 90’s, science has come a long way and getting HIV is merely an inconvenience.
I also have pretty severe Crohn’s Disease, which I was concerned was going to be an issue with the HIV. I informed my gastroenterologist and we worked together to determine that the medication I was taking wasn’t in conflict of the HIV meds.
Unfortunately the education hasn’t exactly kept up with the science and people still fear it.
My point is he may come off as nonchalant because he knows the science and lives it every day that it’s not really a big deal. If you are curious feel free to ask him about it, I’m sure he’s more than happy to talk about it.
I wish school would do better at sex Ed for all sexuality’s and gender types but for most of us I’m sure it was STDs bad sex = baby end of story.
You say you don't have an ignorant mindset, but your post and comments suggest otherwise. Wanting to go to his doctor with him to confirm he's undetectable? I assume every visit? Do him a favor, and let him find someone better.
OP is very wise for putting his own health FIRST! No problem being HIV+ and U=U but I won’t have sex with you until I’m sure you’re in fact undetectable. Just not worth risking it
Then you don't understand how PrEP works. If you think you're somehow safer with guys that claim to be HIV- vs a guy who tells you he's positive and undetectable, you're being naive.
My husband is positive and I’m not. It’s just like diabetes these days… just make sure he takes his meds if you’re fucking raw. You should be on prep too. That’s it
OP came here to learn and most of the comments are supportive and helping him learn.
Then there's people like you . Just want to be caustic because how dare OP not instantly be as knowledgeable and comfortable as you. Oh the humanity!
He said he probably wouldn't have dated him knowing he was HIV positive. Undetectable or not. That's just HIV phobia.
Then after one date he's supposed to meet with his doctor? That's a level of distrust.
I'm not being "caustic" I just won't jump though hoops to prove myself.
Hi u/timmarkIII,
while I agree that it's sad that people are so ignorant about HIV, especially when they're on PrEP, OP came here seeking help. He acknowledged his ignorance in the post. Calling him a red flag, when he is clearly trying to get educated crossed the line and I'm giving you a formal warning. If you have questions about your warning, please feel free to reply to this comment.
I deleted it.
As a person with HIV since 1985 I should be able to voice my opinion on *their* ignorance and the hoops we POZ men are supposed to go through to satisfy their demands.
No, you're not going to meet my doctor after one date.
Some negative guys are on PrEP for very logical reasons. Some are just paranoid of HIV and still discriminate against people with HIV....even though there is zero chance of getting it when Undetectable. AND they are on PrEP too!
My HIV status is on my profiles. U=U. By all means, pass me by.
Mentally, my reaction was similar to yours, and how a guy that has been on prep for years could have these ideas, it’s kinda frustrating/sad.
But I’d offer up that OP starts his post admitting that he’s uneducated on this and he’s here for advice. I’d suggest that you delete your comment, because the worst thing we can do is shame those that admit they might not have a solid base of information and seek advice and knowledge.
Your comment (and my gut reaction) isn’t helpful to OP and other that need and want to grow and learn.
You need to know the following:
1) What his current viral load is, ie. is he undetectable. Don't assume he is or isn't undetectable. Ask.
2) What his STD testing regimen looks like, ie. how often. Those with HIV, even when it's well managed, are more susceptible to some STDs.
Basically you want to ascertain whether he is responsibly dealing with his infection, and you need to be prepared to share your regimen for testing and prevention.
Other than that, go to town. 😀
It’s important for YOU to know about good sexual health and safer sex practices for YOUR health. Go to a reputable website or community clinic and read and learn.
Reddit is easy and nice, but it ought NOT to be your primary source for information.
He’s taking care of his business. He knows what he needs to do. Your lack of knowledge and awareness should be a red flag for him.
Please also remember that PReP prevents HIV transmission but not other STDs. A combination of PReP and condoms gives you both the fullest protection possible.
Well the Prep is to stop you catching it, after all. If you are consistent with that and he's consistent with the hiv medication there shouldn't be a problem.
It's a scary disease though. I would be insisting on condoms even with a negative partner- i did with my current bf though that was before prep and u=u were a thing.
If I remember the story correctly, the way they discovered PrEP had to do with the fact that partners of hiv+ guys with zero load were not turning poz even with unprotected sex. I am negative and had a partner who died of AIDS before the medicines were available. I also had a partner who was HIV positive but with zero load before I met him and we were together 8 years. I feel better dating someone who is hiv positive and taking care of themselves with zero loss then a person who thinks they are negative but not on PrEP.
Why do you go on a date? Likely to lead to something long term. Long term thinking is normal. OP didn’t say he was going to call the guy right now and schedule a joint doctor appointment. Chill.
"An undetectable viral load means that the level of HIV in their body is too low to be measured by a blood test and will not be transmitted through sex. In this case, you do not need PrEP."
https://www.nhsinform.scot/hiv-prep-pre-exposure-prophylaxis/one-partner-is-hiv-positive-the-other-is-negative#:~:text=An%20undetectable%20viral%20load%20means,you%20do%20not%20need%20PrEP.
There's nothing for you to manage if he's Undetectable, unless of course you have an open relationship or cheat.
My old boyfriend was HIV+. He didn’t tell me until after we had sex a couple of times which made me mad but I got over it! We had a good relationship for a couple of years, but people with HIV I have learned from him and social groups for HIV that I have been to, tend to have a lot of other health problems besides HIV which can way you down. For an example, my boyfriend had very bad nightmares form his medication, and also his legs started to fail and he started to use a wheelchair! Same with his social groups a disproportionate number had health problems, incl. some in wheelchairs also.
I thought this was BS, but there is research that validates brain inflammation in a subset of HIV+ folks. Staying on your meds is the best way to manage this. https://www.sfaf.org/collections/beta/hiv-inflammation-linked-to-complex-motor-skill-impairment/
You should also ask him _before_ the second date if he also has hsv1 or HPV or some variant of BOTH HPV _and_ the Guardasil vaccine. Most of the time people who are on apps and are generous with their lovemaking attract more than one STD.
I'd wait a few months before having sex. I'd want to goto the doctor to get the results with him, and have both of us tested before so there's absolutely no chance of deception. Either way. If he didn't agree to that, I'd say 'Look im sorry, but it's too big of a risk'.
You don't know this guy from a bar of soap. How can you be sure anything he says is truthful? Is it worth the risk?
Go to the doctor to get the results with him? Just ask to see the results. If anyone said they wanted to come with me to my doctor's appointment I'd run the fuck away so fast. People with HIV already have their own issues being self conscious about it. This guy was truthful with OP and has shown no reason to be deceptive. If you're worried about contracting anything, use condoms, get on prep, or don't have sex, but don't treat people like this.
You are a much more trusting person than I.
I had an incident where I caught up with a friend of a close friend, so I thought " hey, not a total random" and I wanted to lose my virginity to him, and we agreed on him using a condom, and he took it off during topping me, without my knowledge. He admitted it after we had both orgasmed.
I spent 6 months on PEP, worried I'd contracted HIV. That was an extremely stressful 6 months and damn the medication was terrible. Constant nausea. It was horrible.
He told me he was STI free, so not to worry, but how could I really trust him? He'd already broken my trust. And I felt SO foolish because i didn't know him well enough. I thought him being a mate of my close friend was enough to have that respect be there. If I could do it again I'd have dated him for a few months then taken the test together to be responsible. Then if we'd had consensual bareback sex, I would have felt more comfortable.
Not everybody will have my experience, I'm just illustrating that if you can't trust a friend of a friend, why would you trust a stranger?
So I understand that this guy was a shit head and broke your trust. That is horrible and I'm sorry that happened. However, just from your post, you show a ton of phobia and anxiety about HIV. Protect yourself and ask when they got tested and if they would mind sharing their results.
From my perspective, my husband is positive. He's been undetectable for years. I continue to be negative. We invited this other guy over for some fun, were up front with him about my husband's status beforehand, and he said he was fine. However, when he got to our place, he got super weird, didn't want to touch my husband aside from kissing him, and legit asked to see his meds to make sure he was taking them.....
That interaction scarred my husband and dug up feelings of worthlessness that he has fought so hard to overcome from his initial diagnosis. Even if you decide that dating someone with HIV just isn't worth the risk for you, show kindness and see how being ultra paranoid can also unlock a ton of trauma in regular people just trying to live a normal life.
If you're engaging in casual sex, I can't really speak to that. That comes with much shorter time frames than dating has potential for.
But if you're dating someone, as the OP said this guy was doing, then what's wrong with getting to know them slowly, time frames are different for everyone. For me, I'd give it a few months, and would do the STI testing together. That was a recommendation from a sexual health advocate I know who is very up on this stuff. Get tested together. I do this with anyone, regardless of knowing they have HIV.
Op might decide my method is way OTT, and that's fine. Op has to make a call, all we're doing is offering different perspectives.
Nothing is wrong with getting to know people. I never said that. Someone asking to get tested with me after I already get regularly tested just to appease their anxiety that I'm not being truthful. Its giving "let me look at your phone to make sure you're not talking to anyone". It's different to me if nobody knows their status and want to go together to get tested.
OP can decide whatever he wants as can you. All I'm saying is to remember that these guys are real people and to not let your anxieties get in the way of seeing and treating them as such.
This was indeed a horrible experience. But this can happen with everybody. Knowing someone is not a guarantee he will act correctly.
I can understand your reaction and your trust issues. But using PreP is more than enough to protect yourself.
All the best!
Oh yeah, it's no guarantee, but unless they're a psychopath it's more likely they'll treat you respectfully.
Oh wow I just looked up the stat's. It's 99% effective. Something like 20 ppl have caught it out of 100 million. Well, that makes me feel better about that.
I still advise having a full STI screen with a partner. There's other stuff they could have and not even know about. That's treatable, but better to be sure.
Yes, PreP is highly effective. I don't know the stats, but it's very good. We can trust this med.
However, PreP doesn't protect from other STDs. On the positive side, they can be treated.
Sure, if you seek a long term relationship with a man, it would be useful to have the screening together. Gives some peace of mind.
But for a hookup it's highly impractical.
Wait a few months?! That’s paranoia.
When playing with strangers, I just assume every partner is positive. Playing with an HIV+ person is NBD, as long as you’re on PrEP.
Op said the guy was asking for dates. A few months is a great time to get to know someone in terms of dating, it helps build the tension too, and it means the chase isn't a week, but drawn out, oh man, now that's exciting!
So I look at it a little different // he was under ZERO obligation to tell me, someone else mentioned it here but, it’s no more risky than sleeping with guys who don’t know or haven’t been tested. I trust my prep to work with random people, why shouldn’t I trust it with someone who knows they are positive and told me despite having no obligation to (at this moment in time)
This is pretty much my line of thought as well.
My husband and I occasionally entertain a third. Last time we looked for someone, a guy messaged us and mentioned he was positive. We talked about it (husband and I privately) and it's hard because of how ingrained has been that it's a possible death sentence, it's hard to undo all that even if intellectually I know the risks are low.
I'd be down for it though. We've been using condoms, and I recently got a prep prescription but haven't really used it. The risk is just so low that way.
Getting prep mailed to you is pretty convenient if you have it on auto refill and get 90 day supplies on each refill. Just make sure your insurance covers it and you get the gilead copay assistance card.
Why people still so uneducated about HIV? Op sounds no only ignorant, but very judgmental. Everyone go and ask to your doctors they have the answers to your questions
Hi u/sealelderberry6874,
I agree that it's regrettable that so many are ignorant about the basics of HIV, but OP did acknowledge their ignorance in the post and cam here seeking advice. When someone is trying to better themselves, shaming is counterproductive and uncivil. Since you broke our rules and have no age flair, the warning system does not apply and you will be banned. You can use the reply function in the ban message to appeal. If you understand what you did wrong, I'm open to converting the ban to a warning.
There are many responsible resources available online. I’d suggest.gov sites or gay educational websites. I’m assuming he is undetectable? You didn’t include this in your post; perhaps you don’t know yet.
Have an open and frank conversation with him. My previous partner (25+ years ago) was positive but was undetectable. We were vers so I topped and bottomed. I got tested regularly and never got the disease. Things have improved greatly since then so a relationship is certainly possible.
You should have an honest discussion with your primary care physician (PCP). If you’re not comfortable discussing anything and everything with your PCP find a new one (I’m a retired MD). If you’re not confident with his knowledge and counsel, seek out an infectious disease specialist in your area. Given the characterization of your city and its high STI levels, I’m confident that you can find someone who can help you become more knowledgeable about the disease.
I think your reaction about not dating someone who is positive is normal so don’t be too harsh on yourself. It’s a scary and life-threatening situation and you should enter into the relationship fully informed. Since he volunteered the information, it sounds like he’s an honest and genuine person. Perhaps he sees a future with a man like you. Good luck.
There are often co-morbidities that come with HIV and synergistically make infection more likely. While it is your first date, I recommend you ask if your partner has tested for other STIs, such as HSV2, trich, HPV, gonorrhea, syphilis, etc for not only their safety but yours. Most tests do not include HSV, syphilis, trich, or HPV yet knowing one’s status for these can be incredibly paramount. As for having HIV, U = U. As such, being on ART consistently reduces one’s risk of transmission to such a low likelihood that is essentially zero. Hope this helps.
https://eurjmedres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40001-022-00635-w
U = U. I understand you're coming here possibly looking for advice from folks who may have knowledge or experience to share. I recommend also having an open conversation with your potential new beau in addition to speaking with a LGBTQ+ friendly HIV healthcare provider. Get the facts and flex your communication muscle early.
Thank you ❤️
You're most welcome ❤ It's a green flag to me that he disclosed up front so likely open to the convo. Kudos to you though for taking it on yourself to be knowledgeable.
totally agree. I met my now husband just over six years ago. He's poz/undetectable, I'm neg. I still do prep, but mostly because we're a bit open. It took me a little bit to adjust, but he's a wonderful person and I'm really glad I married him. I almost don't think about that aspect of our relationship anymore, and haven't for a long time. HIV is not the spectre it was in the 90's. It's a whole new world now. BTW, the technical term for poz/neg couples is "serodiscordant". The colloquial term is "magnetic". Lastly, I think u/Dfen218 advice is spot on. I'm just adding a bit :)
Been with my husband for 10 years married for 7. He was HIV+ when we started dating. I haven't been on prep and we don't use condoms. He's been undetectable the entirety of our relationship and I've had no chance of contracting it as long as he stays undetectable. We have a very normal relationship. Literally dating someone who is HIV+ won't feel any different. You gotta get over the stigma that society has put on it because things are nowhere near the same as what they used to be.
So I read that some people’s medication they can become resistant to it and as a result their undetectable status falters. What are the warning signs of this occurring, ssh he goes for a three month checkup and they discover it…
People with HIV are regularly required by their doctors to continuously test their levels to maintain their undetectable status to continue receiving medication. If their levels ever did fluctuate, the doctors would catch it before it was ever an issue. Additionally, the only time I've heard of people becoming resistant to medications is when they contract another strain of HIV from someone else whose HIV was being treated with a certain medication. I would honestly look up and see what the numbers and data behind people becoming resistant to their medication is and if you might just be worried for nothing because I haven't heard of that happening very often at all.
Resistance develops when you don't adhere to the meds regimen. Which i did for various reasons, none of them my fault. I take three different meds, one of which has three different drugs in it.
https://www.sfaf.org/collections/beta/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-hiv-drug-resistance/ I just learned some stuff too so thank you. This link is a great read for what you brought up.
3 months is plenty of time to see this on blood tests before it poses any risk to you. My partner is checked every 9-12 months. This never happened during any of the PARTNER studies. Undetectable is set at a very low level, there’s a lot of leeway here.
A few people in the partner studies did become detectable https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(19)30418-0/fulltext "viral load in the HIV-positive partner more than 200 copies per mL (19 [4%])"
And none of them were infected due to their partner in the study. They went out and fucked someone else with HIV and were infected that way. There were no cases of HIV in the test group that were related to the undetectable partner. "15 new HIV infections occurred during eligible couple-years of follow-up, but none were phylogenetically linked within-couple transmissions, resulting in an HIV transmission rate of zero (upper 95% CI 0·23 per 100 couple-years of follow-up)."
And every one of those cases was determined genetically to be from someone else. The couples were not necessarily monogamous or faithful.
That figure is the number of people with "undetectable" hiv who became "detectable" over the course of the study
I think the point being made was that they didn't catch it from their undetectable partner, but from outside the relationship
It's not referring to transmission of hiv, but to the likelihood of someone with treated undetectable hiv reverting to detectable levels, which was what I was originally replying to
"15 new HIV infections occurred during eligible couple-years of follow-up, but none were phylogenetically linked within-couple transmissions, resulting in an HIV transmission rate of zero (upper 95% CI 0·23 per 100 couple-years of follow-up)." That's not what this passage says
So for someone taking medications daily, resistance would appear like a slow uptrending of the viral load, not a spike. Allowing for time for people to switch their medications. This is because the viral proteins gradually change shape and the medications that prevent viral replication become less effective. This can happen eventually. It happens faster if someone takes medications inconsistently, because each time the medication is withdrawn, surviving viruses multiply-- like an evolutionary selective pressure. If someone has a spike in their viral load, in the space of say 3 months, it would likely be from not taking the medications.
The detectable HIV partner was ineligible for the study. "Couple-years of follow-up could be **ineligible for one or more reasons**; the choice of primary reason for ineligibility was prioritised in the following order: (1) PEP or PrEP used; (2) HIV-negative partner (or the HIV-positive partner if the HIV-negative partner did not reply) reported no condomless sex; (3)**most recent viral load of HIV-positive partner more than 200 copies per mL;** (4) data on sexual behaviour missing; (5) no viral load available in the past year for each day in the time period; and (6) no HIV test from the HIV-negative partner at the end of the time period or later in time." The study doesn't concern non-adherence. For whatever reason it occurred be it: drug holiday, inability to take medication, forgetfulness.
Yes, I think that strengthens the results of the study, because even when the viral loads of participants strayed higher than 200 copies/ml there was still no transmission documented to their partners. This 200 level is an arbitrary number, based on older methods of detecting viral RNA with less precision. Science can't give us an actual threshold value for transmission to occur. This study shows at easily achievable and maintanable levels of viral suppression, (below 200 copies) there is no scientifically documented transmission to a partner.
3 months is plenty of time to see this on blood tests before it poses any risk to you. My partner is checked every 9-12 months. This never happened during any of the PARTNER studies. Undetectable is set at a very low level, there’s a lot of leeway here.
Can I ask, do you ever have doubts / fear not using prep with your HIV+ partner? Or have times where you’re taken out of the moment during sex, thinking “what if”? I worry that I wouldn’t be able to overcome the emotional vs logical/factual mentality if I was in a long term relationship similar to yours. Would welcome any wisdom or advice.
So at the start like 10 years ago, I was. Mostly because I didn't know as much about HIV and there wasn't as many studies about transmission rate while on medication. However, a few years in and u = u came along using data from 2008-2016 from hundreds of thousands of couples where one was HIV+ and the other wasn't on prep showing that not a single person had been infected if the partner was undetectable.
So I've had several partners who have had HIV, and with protection hasn't been an issue. My husband is + and currently undetectable. I've been with my husband for almost 12 years, and the key to managing HIV is communicating and trusting them. I don't *see* My husband take his pill daily but I trust him.
I've been with lots of undetectable guys and I'm on prep. Still negative - U=U. As long as someone is on Prep or Undetectable than you'll seroconvert.
There are 3 things 1. Is he on medication? If he's undetectable, the answer is "yes." 2. Does he want to use condoms? Do you want to use them? (some use them as an additional precaution even if they're on PREP) 3. Do you want to use PREP?
1) yes he is on medication 1a) we didn’t discuss but he said “he’s doing good” — I plan to discuss in greater detail in a more private setting. 2) haven’t discussed 2a) at first yes, but I’d kind of like to go to a doctor together so they can verify his undetectable status to me, but, I don’t know if that’s pushing a boundary that he may be uncomfortable with. 3) I’m already on PREP and have been for several years.
Going to his doctor with him is a bit invasive. U=U. Plus if you’re really worried, just maintain your prep and you’ll be completely protected. My partner (HIV+)’s doctor said I could be on prep if I was worried but with the fact that there would be testing every 3 months that my partner would do, I would have nothing to worry about even if I wasn’t on prep. I was in it just in case but stopped after a year. Be on prep and don’t worry. Once things get serious and you build more trust (which you definitely should), then you can stop taking it if you want. I’m still negative 9 years later. Never used condoms.
i agreed with your approach here as you can’t simply take ppl word on face value because if he miss his daily medication that will have consequences later on but i think this option have to be used when you both comfortable to proceed to next stages of relationship as it is still early days
I’m unclear on why you think OP, so explains that he’s been on prep for years would need to take any one word. Whether the guy is detectable or not, OP is protected. That’s the beauty of prep - you don’t need to trust any one, any doctor, any lab results. You’re protected
only for hiv and if you take it regularly and if you stop then you won’t be anymore . it also about trust if they guy can’t come clean about his status . make you wonder what else he is hiding and if he is really on prep as that is red flag for me
the fuck are you talking about? the guy already told him his status on the first date.
he only told him after OP started talking about prep and health . if he didn’t mention it then the guy probably wont say anything . did you read the part where OP said he probably wont go out with he guy if he have told him during chatting phase . usually it when you tell ppl that your positive and if you are ok with it and not during the date . that was what i meant if it wasn’t clear the first time
it was the first date and they weren’t even about to have sex. no positive guys do not need to tell anyone about their status when they are chatting. you need to get a fucken grip.
You do you bro, but I think your expectations are not quite realistic
I’m unclear why you think you need to visit his doctor together. Even if this guy is detectable- you’re taking prep so you’re covered. You’ve really got to drop this idea that this guy has something “wrong” with him that he needs to explain/reassure you about. He told you the facts. Facts that are actually nice to know, but not necessary, because you’re taking prep and you’re protected, whether he undetectable or not. You’ve been on prep and you still are worried about hiv? I’m not clear on what you thought you were taking prep for?
That's a little disingenuous. Someone on prep might still actively avoid sleeping with someone who is positive, and consider it merely a precautionary step for instances where they might not know. That's a perfectly valid mind set to have. Just because you have a bullet proof vest on doesn't mean you walk around telling people to try and shoot you. And I say all that as someone negative dating someone positive. Don't bully people.
Just shows you can’t be curious on Reddit. I said I was curious. I didn’t say OP was being ridiculous or any other negative connotations. And your analogy is not even the same thing. OP doesn’t have to date anyone he doesn’t want to, and I didn’t say that he should do otherwise.
If he is on regular medication snd undetectable, and you are taking prep and use a condom. That is way safer than most of the casual sex than most people are having . Focus on you and your health and taking your medicating and using condoms and all is good. You have also been on ONE DATE You discuss potential partner. It's unclear If u mean this as sleeping with him as a sexual partner or you are already weighing up what it would be to have him as a long term partner. Just be mindful how much information this gentleman actually owes you and how much you may feel entitled too, and any mismatch within this Many guys find it quite off-putting when on a date and some lad is discussing long term future or projecting their own perceptions on to what has just been one or two dates.
You're falling victim to stigma. Get on with the relationship or friendship and stop being scared by something that is a non-issue. If you're concerned about HIV, get on prep. If you're concerned about having a partner with a "health condition" I suggest you also start becoming concerned with every other medical condition a future partner could have.
if he's on medication and his viral load is undetectable you can't catch hiv from him. there will be wilfully ignorant people that will try to tell you that all the research and studies into it are wrong and that there is a risk but they're just spreading misinformation and fear. if, for your peace of mind, you would want to be on prep then you should, but if it's a fear of your potential partner you should talk to them and read some published articles on the issue.
I think there remains a huge stigma regarding HIV and relationships. It really wasn’t until someone I really liked and kinda wanted a relationship with ended up positive that my attitude changed. I was faced with the reality that the person didn’t change. He was the same loveable gregarious person I knew from before and once I made that leap I was fine with it. So long as someone is under treatment and achieves an undetectable viral load it’s perfectly safe to have sex with them. I can understand the trepidation and if you’re not 100% sure stay on the prep. In the beginning when you are starting to develop the trust it takes to be in a relationship you’ll naturally want to be guarded and take precautions until you’ve peeled back the layers and feel you have gotten to know him well enough to trust him. At that point you can decide to either stay on or go off the prep. Until then treat him like a human being and get to know him for the person he is versus the managed disease he has
I appreciate your willingness to acknowledge your lack of knowledge on this topic. If I were in a similar situation, I would recommend reaching out to a reputable prep provider or consulting informative YouTube videos for guidance. Personally, I used to hold some preconceived notions before starting my own prep regimen, but now that I'm on it, those stigmas no longer concern me. I'm aware that being undetectable means being unable to transmit the virus, and it appears that individuals with undetectable viral loads also tend to be nice lovers. Also I strongly believe that in this instance you should educate yourself. Watch YouTube videos. Read online resources and faq. In a way, imo, he’s not obligate to teach you.
I am already on PREP so that isn’t a concern.
I added to my comment that you SHOULD (yes should) educate yourself on HIV and undetectable status. U=U He’s not obligated to educate you. Sorry if that sounds harsh.
On the topic of U=U, here’s some further “education” that justifies OP’s totally legitimate concerns. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-hiv-idUSKBN1ZM30H
OP comments that he’s been on prep for years, so he doesn’t need to be concerned with any of this. He’s protected. But your point stands - NEVER trust your health to someone else. You (alone) are responsible and the best way to protect against hiv is taking prep
U=U is true. Having worked on many HIV+ patients over the past several years, not everyone who believes they are U is *actually* U. Not everyone reliably takes medications, and even those that do can have their supply disrupted for reasons outside of their control. This is true for HIV patients, but also birth control, diabetes, autoimmune disease, heart disease, even cancer patients. Hell, diabetes treatment compliance is so poor, the A1C was developed to specifically monitor a patient's long-term glucose levels, you can't game an A1C result like you can game glucose strips. And mismanaging diabetes can literally kill, or lead to amputations and organ failure. I wouldn't trust someone's medication compliance unless I'm actively monitoring their weekly pill sorter.
I have several friends in +/- relationships. You're already on PreP, if he's being treated and undetectable you should be fine. The few times I've had sex w + men, I've required condoms just to alleviate my own anxiety. If you like this guy, give the relationship a chance.
I take it you’re not on prep?
I was at the time. The condoms were overkill but the relieved my anxiety
well there’s other STIs so condoms can never be overkill unless you made him put on more than one at a time lol
There is that, but I'd be lying if I said it was my focus
well I appreciate the honesty
Poz here, I’ve been in a relationship with a neg fella for 18 years. I’m a top and we have never used condoms. I take my meds. You decide for you but the meds work.
Use it as an opportunity to have a conversation with him. Just say you’re ignorant and want to learn, but do have some fear. You’re not likely to catch anything
HIV+ people should not have to carry the burden of teaching all their dates about HIV. OP has the responsibility to self educate.
Idk, there should be some education they could do, yeah? I had to ask a friend who was positive to help me understand and they gave me tons of resources. It’s not they’re a minority race or it’s a disability, but maybe that’s me now and I forgot how weird some of my questions could have been
OP can educate himself and then have a meaningful and informed discussion with his date. Gay men have a responsibility to understand STI’s, and HIV if they are going to have unprotected sex. I would go so far as to say men should assume everyone they have sex with has HIV and act accordingly.
That’s kind of what he’s doing here yeah? Educating himself enough to ask appropriate questions?
I this is a better resource than AskGaybros: https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/basics/index.html
Awesome! Thanks for posting that for him! I’m sure it will help him understand more
Please ask any questions that matter to you and go from there. I am sure it varies from person to person, but as long as a dialogue has been started, take advantage and speak. Engaged communication from both parties? You can only benefit from this!
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Thank you ❤️
Why don’t you just ask him? Tell him you would like to learn more about it since you are going to be seeing each other. It is a neat way to remove the tension, you can ask all the stupid questions you might have and he will probably like you even more for it. Good luck!
In a lot of ways; your safer than not knowing. He’s non-dectable; your on PREP. All data is on the table. It would be worse if you did something unprotected and didn’t know. Have fun; make sure those two data points don’t change. No reason to mak a big deal out of it. I have a friend who’s undetectable; I’m on PREP I used to be manic about it and I can’t wait for him to use that big Latin cock on me.:))). No fear like I used to; but I have all the info that makes that possible. It’s the unknown that makes us crazy. Great question. That’s what this sub is about.
You already know it. He’s HIV+ and he’s undetectable. It’s good you’re on PrEP but isn’t necessary if your relationship is monogamous and you trust each other. As a POZ man when my dates get weird about HIV I like to remind them if you’re having sex with multiple partners the odds are you are going to have sex with an HIV+ guy. Either he says he’s negative but hasn’t been tested recently so may be poz but doesn’t know it yet. He’s poz but lies about it. Or he’s poz and uses treatment as prevention as well as being undetectable.
If you are on prep you most likely already had sex with hiv+ people who even had transmissible status. And indetectable makes it intransmissible so why make it an issue now.
Others will have more information, but next time I suggest that you just ask him directly since he knows more than you. Show some curiosity and open-mindedness. I know that a lot has changed over the past 10+ years and stigmas are usually based on misinformation.
Yeah, I plan to — but we were in a public setting and figured it wasn’t the best place / time.
I get where you are coming from, but it's also weird that a public place isn't the space to talk about health (?).
At a restaurant?
Yeah. He brought it up. Plus there's nothing wrong to asking about details about how health works in public. There are easily ways to talk about health without it being specific to the person. It's not like health issues are completely taboo and can't be spoken about...
Well…. I should mention we’re in Georgia, so…. The already open hatred for the LGBT and then the stigma of HIV, I just didn’t feel it appropriate
That's fine. But then again, it sounds like shame all around. Worth digging into on your end. There's absolutely nothing wrong with talking about health in general in public (I can see a line being drawn when it's about someone specifically). Something to consider...
I think the only thing you need to know is that many POZ guys carry some psychological baggage, and may occasionaly need some extra support or to vent. And no matter how much he's internalized U=U, there will always be some tiny doubt in a far corner of his mind, and that can manifest in a variety of ways. But if he has a healthy attitude about having the disease, there shouldn't be any problems. Source: tested poz, as I knew I would, shortly after things were getting serious with my now husband. In a couple of weeks we'll celebrate the 31st anniversary of our "not a wedding" ceremony. So you should be able to manage a relationship.
I applaud you for putting his own health FIRST! Don’t let anyone make you feel guilty for prioritizing your well-being and wanting to remain negative!!! No problem being HIV+ and U=U… but don’t have sex until you are sure he’s in fact undetectable. Just not worth risking your health
Don't listen to those who call you ignorant or judgemental ..be who you are and you have the right to choose what you want..it's your life , stop feeling bad for how you really feel but doesn't hurt to ask your doctor and that will help you make a solid decision.
I’m HIV + and have been undetectable for almost 10 years. I take my medication regularly and get tested every 3 months and have never come back with a bad result. My partner and I are in an open relationship and he is not on Prep but gets regular tests. We’ve never used condoms together and he’s never had any issues. HIV of today is not like the 90’s, science has come a long way and getting HIV is merely an inconvenience. I also have pretty severe Crohn’s Disease, which I was concerned was going to be an issue with the HIV. I informed my gastroenterologist and we worked together to determine that the medication I was taking wasn’t in conflict of the HIV meds. Unfortunately the education hasn’t exactly kept up with the science and people still fear it. My point is he may come off as nonchalant because he knows the science and lives it every day that it’s not really a big deal. If you are curious feel free to ask him about it, I’m sure he’s more than happy to talk about it. I wish school would do better at sex Ed for all sexuality’s and gender types but for most of us I’m sure it was STDs bad sex = baby end of story.
You say you don't have an ignorant mindset, but your post and comments suggest otherwise. Wanting to go to his doctor with him to confirm he's undetectable? I assume every visit? Do him a favor, and let him find someone better.
OP is very wise for putting his own health FIRST! No problem being HIV+ and U=U but I won’t have sex with you until I’m sure you’re in fact undetectable. Just not worth risking it
Then you don't understand how PrEP works. If you think you're somehow safer with guys that claim to be HIV- vs a guy who tells you he's positive and undetectable, you're being naive.
Block him and move on.
My husband is positive and I’m not. It’s just like diabetes these days… just make sure he takes his meds if you’re fucking raw. You should be on prep too. That’s it
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OP came here to learn and most of the comments are supportive and helping him learn. Then there's people like you . Just want to be caustic because how dare OP not instantly be as knowledgeable and comfortable as you. Oh the humanity!
He said he probably wouldn't have dated him knowing he was HIV positive. Undetectable or not. That's just HIV phobia. Then after one date he's supposed to meet with his doctor? That's a level of distrust. I'm not being "caustic" I just won't jump though hoops to prove myself.
Hi u/timmarkIII, while I agree that it's sad that people are so ignorant about HIV, especially when they're on PrEP, OP came here seeking help. He acknowledged his ignorance in the post. Calling him a red flag, when he is clearly trying to get educated crossed the line and I'm giving you a formal warning. If you have questions about your warning, please feel free to reply to this comment.
I deleted it. As a person with HIV since 1985 I should be able to voice my opinion on *their* ignorance and the hoops we POZ men are supposed to go through to satisfy their demands. No, you're not going to meet my doctor after one date. Some negative guys are on PrEP for very logical reasons. Some are just paranoid of HIV and still discriminate against people with HIV....even though there is zero chance of getting it when Undetectable. AND they are on PrEP too! My HIV status is on my profiles. U=U. By all means, pass me by.
Mentally, my reaction was similar to yours, and how a guy that has been on prep for years could have these ideas, it’s kinda frustrating/sad. But I’d offer up that OP starts his post admitting that he’s uneducated on this and he’s here for advice. I’d suggest that you delete your comment, because the worst thing we can do is shame those that admit they might not have a solid base of information and seek advice and knowledge. Your comment (and my gut reaction) isn’t helpful to OP and other that need and want to grow and learn.
You need to know the following: 1) What his current viral load is, ie. is he undetectable. Don't assume he is or isn't undetectable. Ask. 2) What his STD testing regimen looks like, ie. how often. Those with HIV, even when it's well managed, are more susceptible to some STDs. Basically you want to ascertain whether he is responsibly dealing with his infection, and you need to be prepared to share your regimen for testing and prevention. Other than that, go to town. 😀
It’s important for YOU to know about good sexual health and safer sex practices for YOUR health. Go to a reputable website or community clinic and read and learn. Reddit is easy and nice, but it ought NOT to be your primary source for information. He’s taking care of his business. He knows what he needs to do. Your lack of knowledge and awareness should be a red flag for him. Please also remember that PReP prevents HIV transmission but not other STDs. A combination of PReP and condoms gives you both the fullest protection possible.
Well the Prep is to stop you catching it, after all. If you are consistent with that and he's consistent with the hiv medication there shouldn't be a problem. It's a scary disease though. I would be insisting on condoms even with a negative partner- i did with my current bf though that was before prep and u=u were a thing.
If I remember the story correctly, the way they discovered PrEP had to do with the fact that partners of hiv+ guys with zero load were not turning poz even with unprotected sex. I am negative and had a partner who died of AIDS before the medicines were available. I also had a partner who was HIV positive but with zero load before I met him and we were together 8 years. I feel better dating someone who is hiv positive and taking care of themselves with zero loss then a person who thinks they are negative but not on PrEP.
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Why do you go on a date? Likely to lead to something long term. Long term thinking is normal. OP didn’t say he was going to call the guy right now and schedule a joint doctor appointment. Chill.
Thank you, apparently that wasn’t clear.
Nice to meet you too……
"An undetectable viral load means that the level of HIV in their body is too low to be measured by a blood test and will not be transmitted through sex. In this case, you do not need PrEP." https://www.nhsinform.scot/hiv-prep-pre-exposure-prophylaxis/one-partner-is-hiv-positive-the-other-is-negative#:~:text=An%20undetectable%20viral%20load%20means,you%20do%20not%20need%20PrEP. There's nothing for you to manage if he's Undetectable, unless of course you have an open relationship or cheat.
My old boyfriend was HIV+. He didn’t tell me until after we had sex a couple of times which made me mad but I got over it! We had a good relationship for a couple of years, but people with HIV I have learned from him and social groups for HIV that I have been to, tend to have a lot of other health problems besides HIV which can way you down. For an example, my boyfriend had very bad nightmares form his medication, and also his legs started to fail and he started to use a wheelchair! Same with his social groups a disproportionate number had health problems, incl. some in wheelchairs also.
I thought this was BS, but there is research that validates brain inflammation in a subset of HIV+ folks. Staying on your meds is the best way to manage this. https://www.sfaf.org/collections/beta/hiv-inflammation-linked-to-complex-motor-skill-impairment/
You should also ask him _before_ the second date if he also has hsv1 or HPV or some variant of BOTH HPV _and_ the Guardasil vaccine. Most of the time people who are on apps and are generous with their lovemaking attract more than one STD.
I'd wait a few months before having sex. I'd want to goto the doctor to get the results with him, and have both of us tested before so there's absolutely no chance of deception. Either way. If he didn't agree to that, I'd say 'Look im sorry, but it's too big of a risk'. You don't know this guy from a bar of soap. How can you be sure anything he says is truthful? Is it worth the risk?
Go to the doctor to get the results with him? Just ask to see the results. If anyone said they wanted to come with me to my doctor's appointment I'd run the fuck away so fast. People with HIV already have their own issues being self conscious about it. This guy was truthful with OP and has shown no reason to be deceptive. If you're worried about contracting anything, use condoms, get on prep, or don't have sex, but don't treat people like this.
You are a much more trusting person than I. I had an incident where I caught up with a friend of a close friend, so I thought " hey, not a total random" and I wanted to lose my virginity to him, and we agreed on him using a condom, and he took it off during topping me, without my knowledge. He admitted it after we had both orgasmed. I spent 6 months on PEP, worried I'd contracted HIV. That was an extremely stressful 6 months and damn the medication was terrible. Constant nausea. It was horrible. He told me he was STI free, so not to worry, but how could I really trust him? He'd already broken my trust. And I felt SO foolish because i didn't know him well enough. I thought him being a mate of my close friend was enough to have that respect be there. If I could do it again I'd have dated him for a few months then taken the test together to be responsible. Then if we'd had consensual bareback sex, I would have felt more comfortable. Not everybody will have my experience, I'm just illustrating that if you can't trust a friend of a friend, why would you trust a stranger?
So I understand that this guy was a shit head and broke your trust. That is horrible and I'm sorry that happened. However, just from your post, you show a ton of phobia and anxiety about HIV. Protect yourself and ask when they got tested and if they would mind sharing their results. From my perspective, my husband is positive. He's been undetectable for years. I continue to be negative. We invited this other guy over for some fun, were up front with him about my husband's status beforehand, and he said he was fine. However, when he got to our place, he got super weird, didn't want to touch my husband aside from kissing him, and legit asked to see his meds to make sure he was taking them..... That interaction scarred my husband and dug up feelings of worthlessness that he has fought so hard to overcome from his initial diagnosis. Even if you decide that dating someone with HIV just isn't worth the risk for you, show kindness and see how being ultra paranoid can also unlock a ton of trauma in regular people just trying to live a normal life.
If you're engaging in casual sex, I can't really speak to that. That comes with much shorter time frames than dating has potential for. But if you're dating someone, as the OP said this guy was doing, then what's wrong with getting to know them slowly, time frames are different for everyone. For me, I'd give it a few months, and would do the STI testing together. That was a recommendation from a sexual health advocate I know who is very up on this stuff. Get tested together. I do this with anyone, regardless of knowing they have HIV. Op might decide my method is way OTT, and that's fine. Op has to make a call, all we're doing is offering different perspectives.
Nothing is wrong with getting to know people. I never said that. Someone asking to get tested with me after I already get regularly tested just to appease their anxiety that I'm not being truthful. Its giving "let me look at your phone to make sure you're not talking to anyone". It's different to me if nobody knows their status and want to go together to get tested. OP can decide whatever he wants as can you. All I'm saying is to remember that these guys are real people and to not let your anxieties get in the way of seeing and treating them as such.
This was indeed a horrible experience. But this can happen with everybody. Knowing someone is not a guarantee he will act correctly. I can understand your reaction and your trust issues. But using PreP is more than enough to protect yourself. All the best!
Oh yeah, it's no guarantee, but unless they're a psychopath it's more likely they'll treat you respectfully. Oh wow I just looked up the stat's. It's 99% effective. Something like 20 ppl have caught it out of 100 million. Well, that makes me feel better about that. I still advise having a full STI screen with a partner. There's other stuff they could have and not even know about. That's treatable, but better to be sure.
Yes, PreP is highly effective. I don't know the stats, but it's very good. We can trust this med. However, PreP doesn't protect from other STDs. On the positive side, they can be treated. Sure, if you seek a long term relationship with a man, it would be useful to have the screening together. Gives some peace of mind. But for a hookup it's highly impractical.
Yeah no I wouldn't for a hookup. The op said the guy was asking for dates, that's what I was talking about.
Wait a few months?! That’s paranoia. When playing with strangers, I just assume every partner is positive. Playing with an HIV+ person is NBD, as long as you’re on PrEP.
Op said the guy was asking for dates. A few months is a great time to get to know someone in terms of dating, it helps build the tension too, and it means the chase isn't a week, but drawn out, oh man, now that's exciting!
So I look at it a little different // he was under ZERO obligation to tell me, someone else mentioned it here but, it’s no more risky than sleeping with guys who don’t know or haven’t been tested. I trust my prep to work with random people, why shouldn’t I trust it with someone who knows they are positive and told me despite having no obligation to (at this moment in time)
This is pretty much my line of thought as well. My husband and I occasionally entertain a third. Last time we looked for someone, a guy messaged us and mentioned he was positive. We talked about it (husband and I privately) and it's hard because of how ingrained has been that it's a possible death sentence, it's hard to undo all that even if intellectually I know the risks are low. I'd be down for it though. We've been using condoms, and I recently got a prep prescription but haven't really used it. The risk is just so low that way.
The problem I see here is that you don't want to date HIV+ guys so you should put that in your dating profile to avoid situations like this.
Getting prep mailed to you is pretty convenient if you have it on auto refill and get 90 day supplies on each refill. Just make sure your insurance covers it and you get the gilead copay assistance card.
Insurance refuses 90 days, they’ll only do 30
Why people still so uneducated about HIV? Op sounds no only ignorant, but very judgmental. Everyone go and ask to your doctors they have the answers to your questions
Hi u/sealelderberry6874, I agree that it's regrettable that so many are ignorant about the basics of HIV, but OP did acknowledge their ignorance in the post and cam here seeking advice. When someone is trying to better themselves, shaming is counterproductive and uncivil. Since you broke our rules and have no age flair, the warning system does not apply and you will be banned. You can use the reply function in the ban message to appeal. If you understand what you did wrong, I'm open to converting the ban to a warning.
There are many responsible resources available online. I’d suggest.gov sites or gay educational websites. I’m assuming he is undetectable? You didn’t include this in your post; perhaps you don’t know yet. Have an open and frank conversation with him. My previous partner (25+ years ago) was positive but was undetectable. We were vers so I topped and bottomed. I got tested regularly and never got the disease. Things have improved greatly since then so a relationship is certainly possible. You should have an honest discussion with your primary care physician (PCP). If you’re not comfortable discussing anything and everything with your PCP find a new one (I’m a retired MD). If you’re not confident with his knowledge and counsel, seek out an infectious disease specialist in your area. Given the characterization of your city and its high STI levels, I’m confident that you can find someone who can help you become more knowledgeable about the disease. I think your reaction about not dating someone who is positive is normal so don’t be too harsh on yourself. It’s a scary and life-threatening situation and you should enter into the relationship fully informed. Since he volunteered the information, it sounds like he’s an honest and genuine person. Perhaps he sees a future with a man like you. Good luck.
There are often co-morbidities that come with HIV and synergistically make infection more likely. While it is your first date, I recommend you ask if your partner has tested for other STIs, such as HSV2, trich, HPV, gonorrhea, syphilis, etc for not only their safety but yours. Most tests do not include HSV, syphilis, trich, or HPV yet knowing one’s status for these can be incredibly paramount. As for having HIV, U = U. As such, being on ART consistently reduces one’s risk of transmission to such a low likelihood that is essentially zero. Hope this helps. https://eurjmedres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40001-022-00635-w