part of it is because male storylines are often centered around the romantic pursuit of women, so that’s not relatable to me. growing up, i found myself relating to female characters because not only were they usually interested in men, but they were often “underdog” characters, with the odds stacked against them. i liked watching characters go from being disrespected and under appreciated to earning admiration and valor. and i never was a “macho” kid. i preferred to see characters win through cleverness and cunning rather than outright brute strength. nowadays there’s much better representation, though
Ah, now this answer finally makes sense. I just was not feeling the other answers— straight men aren't *that* much of a mystery; I've "known" quite a few; most of my straight friends are men. And I definitely idolize Janeway but I generally don't find women specifically relatable, however, your answer totally adds the necessary bits for perspective on why sometimes female protagonists have such satisfying arcs.
...and then there's Rory Gilmore. 😬
I think, especially for older shows, it can be hard for us to identify with the kind of character that most men were once portrayed as: that stereotypical, slightly or unconsciously misogynistic, hyper-masculine projecting, male.
Tom Paris is an excellent example of what I'm talking about.
I know I never identified with characters like that, because that wasn't me.
You just didn't see male characters that seemed introspective, or intuitive, or sensitive in any way.
At least, not like the women were represented.
They were much more likely to be represented as having an inner life, as being aware of those around them, of being aware they had an influence on other people's perceptions of them.
I could never identify with those characters that exuded casual masculinity. I couldn't do that.
I had to purposely project it, it wasn't something natural to my nature.
And no, I'm not saying Tom Paris was a misogynistic asshole, he wasn't.
Will Riker was.
But I'm talking about that unconscious projection that straight men have in our very patriarchal society.
And it's subtle, and very hard to put into words without it sounding like I'm painting with an overly broad brush.
Basically, I can't identify with straight men because I've never been one.
I can very often relate to female characters, however, because very often, they're reacting to the same things I have to deal with from straight men.
And I find their internal dialogs a much closer match to my own.
There's a lot of internal questioning,; f being unsure, that's really rare in male characters, unless they're gay.
Well, thanks for reading my internal monologue, please be gentle with me in the replies.
I never understood how Tom Paris was seen as the "ladies man" guy. He underwhelmed in that category, IMO. Now, Santiago Cabrera as Captain Cristóbal Rios in Star Trek: Picard... that DUDE, I could see playing the "ladies man". That is one handsome MF'er.
I think the responses to this show that gay men are into a whole range of characters, female and male.
Perhaps the next question is why many straight men find it difficult to sympathise and identify with female characters.
I think it’s pretty common for gay men to identify with female characters in media, yeah. Just look at the popularity of female video game protagonists (eg Bayonetta) among the gay community. It’s not a rule, not universal, but I think it’s common.
I don’t have a good explanation for why. I think a big part of it is that women, like gay men, are often dismissed or underestimated in professional spaces, and a lot of the conflict in media that centers women focuses on that. I know that appeals to me. Also, many gay men have more female straight friends than male straight friends, perhaps because many of us aren’t entirely comfortable in traditionally macho spaces. Our “relationships” in media might be comparable.
Also consider that when an opposite-sex romance is depicted on screen, if a woman is the center of the narrative then the man is framed as the object of desire. When men are the protagonists then we see women with “male gaze” editing (shots that focus on their bodies or sex appeal) and that can be off-putting. It can make it harder to like those scenes and the character in them.
This is speculation in the context of some things I’ve noticed are common, not universal rules
I'd also argue that a lot of straight dudes just dismiss women as unknowable eldritch horrors from beyond the rift when it comes to understanding their thoughts and feelings which undoubtedly makes it hard for them to meaningfully empathize with female characters in media.
Agree. For me, with a 90 percent female friendship circle, women are far less unknown to me than straight men. I find it difficult to relate to not understanding women!
I think strong female characters have to fight harder than straight male ones so I can see it 100%. I loved x files because of scully, murphy brown and damages glenn close. There was a lot of women characters that show empowering in certain ways.
Same. I have very little to relate to with most female characters. For most to least relatable, it's gay men > straight men > lesbians > straight women.
Same, I definitely gravitate toward the men.
For Voyager, it was good to see a female Captain but honestly she was a bit annoying. Chakotay was my favorite on that show, probably because I thought he was sexy though.
So I know that I was drawn to shows with strong female protaginists because they were the exception when I was growing up, and well before knowing my sexuality (Buffy, Xena, edit: Relic hunter)
They're compelling mostly because of the adversity, the wit, the competence, and diversity.
Edit: it's not as easy to support the male version (angel/Hercules) because they already have the support. (Though Angel is a good show, especially the later seasons)
Homophobia is intrinsically linked to misogyny. Being gay defies gender 'norms' and roles. Women are perceived as 'lesser' than men by much of society and the world. Therefore, being gay is seen as betraying one's masculinity. So gays typically identify more with straight women than straight men. That's different than sexual attraction though, as many gays are hella attracted to straight dudes.
I can only speak from my own experiences and perceptions. This may be a result of my age and demographics. (Grew up in the 70s and 80s in Texas.) I also always felt safer around women in general than men, who were usually toxically masculine. Being gay was not just demonized but dangerous. Violence against us was normalized and encouraged at a societal level. Gays slurs were part of most people's regular vocabulary. My teachers growing up often used gay slurs and freely tossed the words fag and faggot around. So it was instinctive to lean towards people you sensed were safer and women were overwhelmingly 'safer' than men, even though many of them bought into and perpetuated the myths of gender roles.
Male characters tend to be written with a degree of majority privilege that is alienating for anyone who doesn’t have that.
In your example show, Nelix and Tom Paris spend the whole series acting like nobody’s ever told them to fucking grow up already. That’s just not relatable for anyone who grew up anywhere where they had to be responsible to stay out of real danger.
I don't have an answer, but my favorite superheros were Wonder Woman and Bionic Woman. I usually prefer female stand up comedians. Golden Girls and Designing Women were my favorite shows.
It's not just female characters that I always like. It is those female characters who are fully fleshed out, strong, independent females. At the same time, the women who have always been in my life, my mother, my sister, my female friends, have always been badass, independent women in their own right.
I think we're not able to relate with the stereotype image of hero in a movie and if there's a strong female character first of all that's more realistic and give u different perception and often strong female character are handled as outliers in movies often , in society bcz we felt not part of crowd so it felt way more relatable and for the same reason many gay peeps find evil characters relatable too
Not me.
Janeway was okay, but I didn't like voyager at all.
I don't like present day female characters. Hollywood seems to have gone bonkers for the "strong female lead" which for season reason means instantly perfect at everything, requiring no journey, no learning, no growth. These are always surrounded by weak, timid, useless men who she's constantly scolding and lecturing to keep them out of trouble.
There is the obligatory villain who is always male and so over the top cartoonishly evil that the "strong female" has to murder him. It's all so ideological and insulting. I can't even watch.
I can watch well written characters of either gender and enjoy the performance. Anne Dowd is one of my favorite actors.
But, I relate most strongly with male characters by far.
I mean some people do, but I'm a gay man and I relate better to male characters - whether gay or straight. I have plenty of female friends, but my best bonds are with (gay and straight) men.
>I love films, tv shows who have strong, compelling female characters, to the point I’d chose them over those with male characters.
This one is pretty easy. The Venn diagram of misogynists and homophobes is nearly a perfect circle. Women's stories are very similar to our own.
For me it's because they exist in a microagressive space and deal with misogyny and I relate to that more.
My least favorite thing is when a gay male character is written by someone who is not queer and doesn't understand our experiences.
Straight women are the closest to our experiences that is considered "the norm"
Not for me… I don’t think I relate to female characters more than male. I don’t quite get along with flamboyant characters whether in men or women but that’s just my nature.
No, not particularly. A well done character is a well don't character.
Being a Trekkie myself and using the series and films as examples, of course I'm rooting for the main character. Those have mainly been male, but that doesn't mean I didn't appreciate Major Kira from DS9 or Captain Janeway from Voyager or Captain Michael Burnham from Discovery. But I would never say that's a preference for female characters and certainly not because I'm gay 😵💫
They were well written and compelling characters but all for the shows and films also have well written and compelling male characters.
I don't tend to track anything female, especially since I'm gay, I prefer men and whatever men are doing. But a well written female character is a well written female character 🖖🏾
Too much unnecessary masculinity in that character or he's just a boring man. Plus I can't really relate to them when they're hot...cus I would simply be attracted by the looks all the time.
Besides romantic and love interests aside, part of me thinks it’s because gay men are a lot like women, we’re apart of society but separated from the power structure. We can see it from the outside and participate in it from within. Women share this duality with us in regards to the patriarchy, which helps us relate to them.
On the one hand we have heterosexual male story lines: Typically written around the idea of the man being well-liked, feeling generally confident and safe unless some specific niche events are unfolding, and usually involves him pursuing a female for the sake of love- even if he doesn’t know it yet- int typically unhealthy ways. Able to say whatever he wants without fear and yet instead creates entire dramatic events out of what should be simple conversations or hangouts.
On the other hand we have heterosexual female story lines: Woman is typically overworked and stressed and was dealt a whole life that was unfair, she doesn’t feel safe or respected or valued or maybe all three, the world continuously makes it hard for her to progress and she usually runs into a false male love interest who only screws her life up more by pushing outdated ideas on her. She usually resists falling for the real male love interest, having put up a wall to protect herself and usually the guy starts as a prick but comes around to be more progressive and genuinely caring as she also begins to fall for him.
Which one sounds more relatable to a gay guy, born into a world where all these ideas are pushed upon him and he isn’t allowed to be himself and where life is generally harder because the world specifically is designed around saying “You’re not welcome”. Which one also highlights the fantasy of a gay man more, a “happy solution” to the question of love? I think most gay men would say the Hetero female story feels more in-line with the lived gay experience than the Hetero male story *(not that either are perfect representations)*.
Because male and female roles are entirely a social construct. The only thing inherently feminine is childbirth and menstruation.
I personally dont relate to a lot of women on shows, so its definitely a fallacy to think that “gay men relate to female characters more than male”, all the while being perfectly valid that that is your experience.
I think I have a theory on that. There is increasing discussion among scientists that sexual deviance is largely a result of an interruption of hormones in the womb before child birth. Studies involving frogs have proven that if you can alter and disrupt the hormones, you can create gay frogs. If you only tinker a little with the hormones, you have gay 'top' frogs and if you disrupt the hormones a lot, you have bottom gay frogs. This means that from a psychological standpoint we are (probably) largely on a spectrum. Some gay men are on the Bisexual side where they are _mostly_ attracted to men, and some gay men are on the other side where they are on the edge of gender dysphoria and/or Transsexuality. Most of us are somewhere in between. As a result it would stand to reason that our _gender relation_ would change the further we move towards feminity, dysphoria, or transsexuality. We would tend to _relate_ better to women's genders as we move further away from hetero normative hormones in the womb.
Feminine energy is kinda suppressed by patriarchy, gay men embody both. They are more viciously bullied and oppressed than females for acting "weak" so gays find women who are strong as role models in the face of patrairchy. Most of these women or pop stars etc hate patriarchy and are into extreme expression most times
I would agree with this perspective. Both gay men and women are repressed by toxic masculinity and patriarchal systems. I think that it's common enough for gay men to have been closer to their mothers, or perhaps their friend groups in high school and college were mostly made up of girls. I'm not terribly feminine (I'm a nerdy academic, so I'm not terribly masculine either I guess!) and what I've described above is certainly my own experience.
Definitely agree with the female friends and closer bond with mother. Most moms connect or empathize with sensitivity and emotions that dads cannot and try to disregard and subvert. Gay folk also connect with most women and have female friends because of the feeling of safety and understanding and it can work both ways sometimes
Feminism can get toxic too, though. There was an AITA the other day by a woman who started to second-guess her response to fiancé wanting to wear a wedding dress when they get married. He made it sound like kind of a lifelong dream and she just totally shut him down at first, despite describing herself as very progressive.
And of course r/AITAH was very 'supportive' of her, of course she was right, He was a controlling nut case( even though she said in her original post that he actually gave in pretty easily, though he seemed dejected..). He wants to wear a dress for the first time at their wedding? must be trying to make himself the center of attention on 'her' day, if it started this way who knows how far it could go and she'd have a wife a few years if she wasn't careful... etc., etc., A few dissenting voices of reason but mostly everyone was totally behind her and had her back... until she changed her mind.
Said she realized that, being bi herself, and having seen lovely straight weddings with two tuxes and lesbian weddings with two dresses; she would rather have a wedding album they could both look back on with joy and not regret. And mentioned that since she's bi she would still want to marry her same fiancé(e) and be fine having a wife.
Boy did the TERFs come out of the woodwork for that!( Even though the fiancé was and remains cistraight.) Trying to warn her away and continue to put him down as attention-seeking even though she had turned quite around on it. 🤷🏽♂️
I kind of miss the pre-anti-woke Internet, like what happened to the real feminists? And the real gay men who aren't going to run away screaming at the sight of a vulva—saying no thank you, ignoring it, and politely going around guys you're not into? used to be part of the art of attending a sex party.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/AITAH using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/AITAH/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [AITA for telling my husband " I told you so" and laughing at me when we got the paternity test results?](https://np.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/18n0zbl/aita_for_telling_my_husband_i_told_you_so_and/)
\#2: [AITA for telling MIL she was dead to me after she showed up in labor and delivery without my mother?](https://np.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/16iiygb/aita_for_telling_mil_she_was_dead_to_me_after_she/)
\#3: [AITA for being truthful and admitting that I find my wife unattractive after her surgery?](https://np.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1baxuez/aita_for_being_truthful_and_admitting_that_i_find/)
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I don't identify with female characters, but I find it very intriguing when women do things that men typically do and excel at, such as riding motorbikes, flying airplanes, powerlifting, playing chess, or playing Cities Skylines.
This is a broad projection of your own situation.
I tend to find the opposite all my close friends are male, and straight and am less centered on female related activities or ways of communicating
I gravitate towards male characters . Although I do agree, janeway was a bagasse captian
Perhaps people are different, and there is no universal gay experience.
I don't think it's as common as They would have us believe. Sure, I liked Janeway, and Buffy (moreso Willow, but whatever), but I was still drawn to the guys. I'm including Video Games, Comics, Movies, and TV here, but my tops (no pun intended) are still the boys. And while I only have a smallish circle of All Gay Friends, most of them are drawn similarly to the guys. I can't really extrapolate data from it, but at least in my life it has been more heresay than fact.
I relate to mostly male characters.
I relate to Janeway cause she's a badass strong person, I don't relate to any of her femaleness.
Also I remember reading that the show specifically downplayed her feminineism.
Women are basically foreign things to me. I've never identified with women and all my friends are str8 guys.
Edit: as if this comment is getting down voted, some bros y'all are
Was it the use of the word things? Why so serious?
Yeah I agree with. Let’s think (stream of consciousness incoming)
I think…
Screen writing has been male dominated (per google: 30% F / 60%M)
And I’ll go on a limb, that there are more lgbt people in screen writing, it being writing and creative endeavor.
Point 1. A lot of female characters are gay/queer coded. Hence they are more relatable to gay men
When I was younger, I used to like SATC, and I liked Carrie. I like the idea of Mr Big. Etc etc. not my idea, but they ar essentially gay men (written by a gay man)
Point 2. Again a lot of female characters (FC) are the bitch archetype in media. And those are more interesting . Period. Again, it tapped into that desire for “revenge “ (I guess) from the bullying a lot of us experienced.
P3. Some FC are sexy AF. I still love the the og movie Lara Croft. Str8 men to have sex with her. And gay men want to be her. (Besides her male sidekicks are kinda “soy boys”).
To sum up: if you are a gay adolescent boy, who is struggling with that and is experiencing bullying, strong FC are more compelling; and most of the type that are written by gay men.
Also, it depends on a person. I don’t like Star Trek, so neither are relatable to me. No do I care for SATC anymore.
If a character is well written it shouldn’t matter.
Janeway is my favorite captain but DS9 is still the best series. This made me think of that scene in modern family where Phil is listing off all the powerful women hes attracted to and then makes a face when realizing they are all black women.
Maybe its something else you find instesting in these women
part of it is because male storylines are often centered around the romantic pursuit of women, so that’s not relatable to me. growing up, i found myself relating to female characters because not only were they usually interested in men, but they were often “underdog” characters, with the odds stacked against them. i liked watching characters go from being disrespected and under appreciated to earning admiration and valor. and i never was a “macho” kid. i preferred to see characters win through cleverness and cunning rather than outright brute strength. nowadays there’s much better representation, though
Ah, now this answer finally makes sense. I just was not feeling the other answers— straight men aren't *that* much of a mystery; I've "known" quite a few; most of my straight friends are men. And I definitely idolize Janeway but I generally don't find women specifically relatable, however, your answer totally adds the necessary bits for perspective on why sometimes female protagonists have such satisfying arcs. ...and then there's Rory Gilmore. 😬
I think, especially for older shows, it can be hard for us to identify with the kind of character that most men were once portrayed as: that stereotypical, slightly or unconsciously misogynistic, hyper-masculine projecting, male. Tom Paris is an excellent example of what I'm talking about. I know I never identified with characters like that, because that wasn't me. You just didn't see male characters that seemed introspective, or intuitive, or sensitive in any way. At least, not like the women were represented. They were much more likely to be represented as having an inner life, as being aware of those around them, of being aware they had an influence on other people's perceptions of them. I could never identify with those characters that exuded casual masculinity. I couldn't do that. I had to purposely project it, it wasn't something natural to my nature. And no, I'm not saying Tom Paris was a misogynistic asshole, he wasn't. Will Riker was. But I'm talking about that unconscious projection that straight men have in our very patriarchal society. And it's subtle, and very hard to put into words without it sounding like I'm painting with an overly broad brush. Basically, I can't identify with straight men because I've never been one. I can very often relate to female characters, however, because very often, they're reacting to the same things I have to deal with from straight men. And I find their internal dialogs a much closer match to my own. There's a lot of internal questioning,; f being unsure, that's really rare in male characters, unless they're gay. Well, thanks for reading my internal monologue, please be gentle with me in the replies.
Yeah, men were just portrayed as stupid bumbling duds, which most gay men aren't
I never understood how Tom Paris was seen as the "ladies man" guy. He underwhelmed in that category, IMO. Now, Santiago Cabrera as Captain Cristóbal Rios in Star Trek: Picard... that DUDE, I could see playing the "ladies man". That is one handsome MF'er.
I think the responses to this show that gay men are into a whole range of characters, female and male. Perhaps the next question is why many straight men find it difficult to sympathise and identify with female characters.
I think it’s pretty common for gay men to identify with female characters in media, yeah. Just look at the popularity of female video game protagonists (eg Bayonetta) among the gay community. It’s not a rule, not universal, but I think it’s common. I don’t have a good explanation for why. I think a big part of it is that women, like gay men, are often dismissed or underestimated in professional spaces, and a lot of the conflict in media that centers women focuses on that. I know that appeals to me. Also, many gay men have more female straight friends than male straight friends, perhaps because many of us aren’t entirely comfortable in traditionally macho spaces. Our “relationships” in media might be comparable. Also consider that when an opposite-sex romance is depicted on screen, if a woman is the center of the narrative then the man is framed as the object of desire. When men are the protagonists then we see women with “male gaze” editing (shots that focus on their bodies or sex appeal) and that can be off-putting. It can make it harder to like those scenes and the character in them. This is speculation in the context of some things I’ve noticed are common, not universal rules
I'd also argue that a lot of straight dudes just dismiss women as unknowable eldritch horrors from beyond the rift when it comes to understanding their thoughts and feelings which undoubtedly makes it hard for them to meaningfully empathize with female characters in media.
Agree. For me, with a 90 percent female friendship circle, women are far less unknown to me than straight men. I find it difficult to relate to not understanding women!
This is a very well thought explanation that I wholly concur with.
I think strong female characters have to fight harder than straight male ones so I can see it 100%. I loved x files because of scully, murphy brown and damages glenn close. There was a lot of women characters that show empowering in certain ways.
From what you wrote, you probably would love Beth in Yellowstone (it took me a few episodes).
I honestly almost never relate with women characters in media.
Same, I like captain Janeway but I don't relate to her
Same. I have very little to relate to with most female characters. For most to least relatable, it's gay men > straight men > lesbians > straight women.
Same. I don’t understand the heroine worship when there are gay male characters/people you can relate to more?
Same, I definitely gravitate toward the men. For Voyager, it was good to see a female Captain but honestly she was a bit annoying. Chakotay was my favorite on that show, probably because I thought he was sexy though.
Same.
So I know that I was drawn to shows with strong female protaginists because they were the exception when I was growing up, and well before knowing my sexuality (Buffy, Xena, edit: Relic hunter) They're compelling mostly because of the adversity, the wit, the competence, and diversity. Edit: it's not as easy to support the male version (angel/Hercules) because they already have the support. (Though Angel is a good show, especially the later seasons)
Omg I love Buffy and Xena.
Homophobia is intrinsically linked to misogyny. Being gay defies gender 'norms' and roles. Women are perceived as 'lesser' than men by much of society and the world. Therefore, being gay is seen as betraying one's masculinity. So gays typically identify more with straight women than straight men. That's different than sexual attraction though, as many gays are hella attracted to straight dudes.
I can only speak from my own experiences and perceptions. This may be a result of my age and demographics. (Grew up in the 70s and 80s in Texas.) I also always felt safer around women in general than men, who were usually toxically masculine. Being gay was not just demonized but dangerous. Violence against us was normalized and encouraged at a societal level. Gays slurs were part of most people's regular vocabulary. My teachers growing up often used gay slurs and freely tossed the words fag and faggot around. So it was instinctive to lean towards people you sensed were safer and women were overwhelmingly 'safer' than men, even though many of them bought into and perpetuated the myths of gender roles.
>So gays typically identify more with straight women than straight men I don't find this to be true.
That’s a nope from me as well
Male characters tend to be written with a degree of majority privilege that is alienating for anyone who doesn’t have that. In your example show, Nelix and Tom Paris spend the whole series acting like nobody’s ever told them to fucking grow up already. That’s just not relatable for anyone who grew up anywhere where they had to be responsible to stay out of real danger.
I don't have an answer, but my favorite superheros were Wonder Woman and Bionic Woman. I usually prefer female stand up comedians. Golden Girls and Designing Women were my favorite shows. It's not just female characters that I always like. It is those female characters who are fully fleshed out, strong, independent females. At the same time, the women who have always been in my life, my mother, my sister, my female friends, have always been badass, independent women in their own right.
I don’t.
I don't.
Not all gay men do no
It could be that strong women show a backbone that we may be envious of, as bullying a gay boy is a common activity in childhood.
I think we're not able to relate with the stereotype image of hero in a movie and if there's a strong female character first of all that's more realistic and give u different perception and often strong female character are handled as outliers in movies often , in society bcz we felt not part of crowd so it felt way more relatable and for the same reason many gay peeps find evil characters relatable too
yes and often evil/villainous characters are queer-coded as well, particularly in disney films
That isn't true. I'm a male and relate to males more than females. I think this is a you thing.
Judging by the comments it’s very much not just a me thing.
Not me. Janeway was okay, but I didn't like voyager at all. I don't like present day female characters. Hollywood seems to have gone bonkers for the "strong female lead" which for season reason means instantly perfect at everything, requiring no journey, no learning, no growth. These are always surrounded by weak, timid, useless men who she's constantly scolding and lecturing to keep them out of trouble. There is the obligatory villain who is always male and so over the top cartoonishly evil that the "strong female" has to murder him. It's all so ideological and insulting. I can't even watch. I can watch well written characters of either gender and enjoy the performance. Anne Dowd is one of my favorite actors. But, I relate most strongly with male characters by far.
I mean some people do, but I'm a gay man and I relate better to male characters - whether gay or straight. I have plenty of female friends, but my best bonds are with (gay and straight) men.
I don't.
I don’t.
Uh who said I do?
Do we? * * * I don't think it's productive to start formulating hypotheses before establishing that a phenomenon even exists.
Part of my question was specifically to establish if the phenomenon exists
[удалено]
Overly sarcastic, hyperbolic and/or insincere contributions may be removed (which is what happened with the comment above in this case).
>I love films, tv shows who have strong, compelling female characters, to the point I’d chose them over those with male characters. This one is pretty easy. The Venn diagram of misogynists and homophobes is nearly a perfect circle. Women's stories are very similar to our own.
For me it's because they exist in a microagressive space and deal with misogyny and I relate to that more. My least favorite thing is when a gay male character is written by someone who is not queer and doesn't understand our experiences. Straight women are the closest to our experiences that is considered "the norm"
Not for me… I don’t think I relate to female characters more than male. I don’t quite get along with flamboyant characters whether in men or women but that’s just my nature.
Live Long and Prosper!
No, not particularly. A well done character is a well don't character. Being a Trekkie myself and using the series and films as examples, of course I'm rooting for the main character. Those have mainly been male, but that doesn't mean I didn't appreciate Major Kira from DS9 or Captain Janeway from Voyager or Captain Michael Burnham from Discovery. But I would never say that's a preference for female characters and certainly not because I'm gay 😵💫 They were well written and compelling characters but all for the shows and films also have well written and compelling male characters. I don't tend to track anything female, especially since I'm gay, I prefer men and whatever men are doing. But a well written female character is a well written female character 🖖🏾
I really love femme fatale movies. Can't explain why.
Too much unnecessary masculinity in that character or he's just a boring man. Plus I can't really relate to them when they're hot...cus I would simply be attracted by the looks all the time.
Besides romantic and love interests aside, part of me thinks it’s because gay men are a lot like women, we’re apart of society but separated from the power structure. We can see it from the outside and participate in it from within. Women share this duality with us in regards to the patriarchy, which helps us relate to them.
Are we?
On the one hand we have heterosexual male story lines: Typically written around the idea of the man being well-liked, feeling generally confident and safe unless some specific niche events are unfolding, and usually involves him pursuing a female for the sake of love- even if he doesn’t know it yet- int typically unhealthy ways. Able to say whatever he wants without fear and yet instead creates entire dramatic events out of what should be simple conversations or hangouts. On the other hand we have heterosexual female story lines: Woman is typically overworked and stressed and was dealt a whole life that was unfair, she doesn’t feel safe or respected or valued or maybe all three, the world continuously makes it hard for her to progress and she usually runs into a false male love interest who only screws her life up more by pushing outdated ideas on her. She usually resists falling for the real male love interest, having put up a wall to protect herself and usually the guy starts as a prick but comes around to be more progressive and genuinely caring as she also begins to fall for him. Which one sounds more relatable to a gay guy, born into a world where all these ideas are pushed upon him and he isn’t allowed to be himself and where life is generally harder because the world specifically is designed around saying “You’re not welcome”. Which one also highlights the fantasy of a gay man more, a “happy solution” to the question of love? I think most gay men would say the Hetero female story feels more in-line with the lived gay experience than the Hetero male story *(not that either are perfect representations)*.
Because male and female roles are entirely a social construct. The only thing inherently feminine is childbirth and menstruation. I personally dont relate to a lot of women on shows, so its definitely a fallacy to think that “gay men relate to female characters more than male”, all the while being perfectly valid that that is your experience.
I think I have a theory on that. There is increasing discussion among scientists that sexual deviance is largely a result of an interruption of hormones in the womb before child birth. Studies involving frogs have proven that if you can alter and disrupt the hormones, you can create gay frogs. If you only tinker a little with the hormones, you have gay 'top' frogs and if you disrupt the hormones a lot, you have bottom gay frogs. This means that from a psychological standpoint we are (probably) largely on a spectrum. Some gay men are on the Bisexual side where they are _mostly_ attracted to men, and some gay men are on the other side where they are on the edge of gender dysphoria and/or Transsexuality. Most of us are somewhere in between. As a result it would stand to reason that our _gender relation_ would change the further we move towards feminity, dysphoria, or transsexuality. We would tend to _relate_ better to women's genders as we move further away from hetero normative hormones in the womb.
Feminine energy is kinda suppressed by patriarchy, gay men embody both. They are more viciously bullied and oppressed than females for acting "weak" so gays find women who are strong as role models in the face of patrairchy. Most of these women or pop stars etc hate patriarchy and are into extreme expression most times
I would agree with this perspective. Both gay men and women are repressed by toxic masculinity and patriarchal systems. I think that it's common enough for gay men to have been closer to their mothers, or perhaps their friend groups in high school and college were mostly made up of girls. I'm not terribly feminine (I'm a nerdy academic, so I'm not terribly masculine either I guess!) and what I've described above is certainly my own experience.
Definitely agree with the female friends and closer bond with mother. Most moms connect or empathize with sensitivity and emotions that dads cannot and try to disregard and subvert. Gay folk also connect with most women and have female friends because of the feeling of safety and understanding and it can work both ways sometimes
Feminism can get toxic too, though. There was an AITA the other day by a woman who started to second-guess her response to fiancé wanting to wear a wedding dress when they get married. He made it sound like kind of a lifelong dream and she just totally shut him down at first, despite describing herself as very progressive. And of course r/AITAH was very 'supportive' of her, of course she was right, He was a controlling nut case( even though she said in her original post that he actually gave in pretty easily, though he seemed dejected..). He wants to wear a dress for the first time at their wedding? must be trying to make himself the center of attention on 'her' day, if it started this way who knows how far it could go and she'd have a wife a few years if she wasn't careful... etc., etc., A few dissenting voices of reason but mostly everyone was totally behind her and had her back... until she changed her mind. Said she realized that, being bi herself, and having seen lovely straight weddings with two tuxes and lesbian weddings with two dresses; she would rather have a wedding album they could both look back on with joy and not regret. And mentioned that since she's bi she would still want to marry her same fiancé(e) and be fine having a wife. Boy did the TERFs come out of the woodwork for that!( Even though the fiancé was and remains cistraight.) Trying to warn her away and continue to put him down as attention-seeking even though she had turned quite around on it. 🤷🏽♂️ I kind of miss the pre-anti-woke Internet, like what happened to the real feminists? And the real gay men who aren't going to run away screaming at the sight of a vulva—saying no thank you, ignoring it, and politely going around guys you're not into? used to be part of the art of attending a sex party.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/AITAH using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/AITAH/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [AITA for telling my husband " I told you so" and laughing at me when we got the paternity test results?](https://np.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/18n0zbl/aita_for_telling_my_husband_i_told_you_so_and/) \#2: [AITA for telling MIL she was dead to me after she showed up in labor and delivery without my mother?](https://np.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/16iiygb/aita_for_telling_mil_she_was_dead_to_me_after_she/) \#3: [AITA for being truthful and admitting that I find my wife unattractive after her surgery?](https://np.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1baxuez/aita_for_being_truthful_and_admitting_that_i_find/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
I don't identify with female characters, but I find it very intriguing when women do things that men typically do and excel at, such as riding motorbikes, flying airplanes, powerlifting, playing chess, or playing Cities Skylines.
Idk my favorite Voyager character is Neelix
Controversial!
This is a broad projection of your own situation. I tend to find the opposite all my close friends are male, and straight and am less centered on female related activities or ways of communicating I gravitate towards male characters . Although I do agree, janeway was a bagasse captian Perhaps people are different, and there is no universal gay experience.
I don't think it's as common as They would have us believe. Sure, I liked Janeway, and Buffy (moreso Willow, but whatever), but I was still drawn to the guys. I'm including Video Games, Comics, Movies, and TV here, but my tops (no pun intended) are still the boys. And while I only have a smallish circle of All Gay Friends, most of them are drawn similarly to the guys. I can't really extrapolate data from it, but at least in my life it has been more heresay than fact.
I was and still am a huge fan of captain Jean-Luc Picard.
I relate to mostly male characters. I relate to Janeway cause she's a badass strong person, I don't relate to any of her femaleness. Also I remember reading that the show specifically downplayed her feminineism.
Women are basically foreign things to me. I've never identified with women and all my friends are str8 guys. Edit: as if this comment is getting down voted, some bros y'all are Was it the use of the word things? Why so serious?
Yeah I agree with. Let’s think (stream of consciousness incoming) I think… Screen writing has been male dominated (per google: 30% F / 60%M) And I’ll go on a limb, that there are more lgbt people in screen writing, it being writing and creative endeavor. Point 1. A lot of female characters are gay/queer coded. Hence they are more relatable to gay men When I was younger, I used to like SATC, and I liked Carrie. I like the idea of Mr Big. Etc etc. not my idea, but they ar essentially gay men (written by a gay man) Point 2. Again a lot of female characters (FC) are the bitch archetype in media. And those are more interesting . Period. Again, it tapped into that desire for “revenge “ (I guess) from the bullying a lot of us experienced. P3. Some FC are sexy AF. I still love the the og movie Lara Croft. Str8 men to have sex with her. And gay men want to be her. (Besides her male sidekicks are kinda “soy boys”). To sum up: if you are a gay adolescent boy, who is struggling with that and is experiencing bullying, strong FC are more compelling; and most of the type that are written by gay men. Also, it depends on a person. I don’t like Star Trek, so neither are relatable to me. No do I care for SATC anymore. If a character is well written it shouldn’t matter.
I don't understand and don't like masculinity heterosexual men have. So i like female characters more, if male character has not some female traits.
Janeway is my favorite captain but DS9 is still the best series. This made me think of that scene in modern family where Phil is listing off all the powerful women hes attracted to and then makes a face when realizing they are all black women. Maybe its something else you find instesting in these women
If we're just talking about Voyager then it's probably because there are a lot of kick ass female characters on that show to love
Because they are so pretty, fancy and used to be the underdog. So me 🫢🫢🫢