I mostly agree with you. But, I will add a couple points:
First, a lot of guys use hooking up as an escape from the stresses of modern life and their own internal turmoil. A quick hookup, a shot of dopamine, some positive attention from a stranger, and you feel better for a little bit. For someone who is lonely, that's a potent cocktail.
Second, there's a lot of guys who have been burned repeatedly in dating and just gave up on the idea of a normal relationship. So they live their lives for themselves, and use hookups as a way to satisfy a need that, for them, has become a purely physical transaction.
Ideals about love, dating, and relationships are hard to maintain in the face of modern gay life.
>Second, there's a lot of guys who have been burned repeatedly in dating
Equally I've come across many guys who don't have the self-awareness or willingness to analyse themselves to take accountability for their own failures in dating and relationships.
That’s me!
Yesterday I hooked up with three guys, to varying degrees of success. And another on Friday.
Why? It was Sunday, I was bored and had no other plans.
My secret hope: to find a connection with someone that would let me delete the apps.
It’s easier to find a hook up than a date.
One guy asked early morning to meet for a coffee right way, without any conversation. I declined. But if he’d asked me for sex, I probably would have said “sure, gimme a minute to shower!”
Which is what the second guy did and I said yes.
I would have if we’d had a decent conversation first.
It went from “hey what’s up? I’m just waking up” to “let’s go for a coffee” without any other conversation first, including “do you live anywhere even close to me?”
Interesting response. The coffee IS for conversation. How much do you need before that? I've met lots of guys for coffee and the only conversation before was, "you wanna grab a coffee?" This can lead to further dating if you vibe from there. You might wanna revisit that person.
well, why text much when you can have a way nicer chat in person? Back when I was on Tinder for actual dating, I was never much of a texter but rather asked for a date very quickly in the conversation because I simply prefer meeting and talking than texting.
Wait you turned down the guy who asked for coffee despite you secretly hoping to connect with someone? And you found it easier to have anonymous sex with someone but found it off putting to be randomly propositioned for coffee?? Am I missing something here?
That is wishful thinking OP. Some of us are living authentically and doing our best, and are still only getting hookups / are single etc. Please do not judge.
Not everyone on the apps are lonely (nor desperate). Depends on the guy. Some people truly enjoy hooking up. Or having a FWB. And then some are desperately in need of companionship, looking online for Mr Right. So a very mixed bag of men...
I feel like this post paints a very ugly picture that may describe some people, but not that many. It's trying to paint everyone who enjoys hookups through the apps as some lonely, miserable addict.
Some people just enjoy connecting sexually with lots of people. It doesn't really need to be any deeper than that. It's not fundamentally different than any other hobby. Do some people use hobbies as escapes from problems? Sure, some do. Most don't.
Yes whilst it maybe well meaning but its very preachy and makes broad based and inaccurate generalisations. It maybe because hes not / hasnt had much / or only had negative experiences on apps and hooking up. Exactly the same way when str8s make flawed generalisations about gays borne our of Ignorance and not knowing any gays.
Have you considered that the lonely and unhappy people you know on the apps are there *because* they’re lonely and unhappy? The apps aren’t the cause of their loneliness, they’re an expression of it.
I know plenty of perfectly happy, well adjusted people who use the apps to hook up because they’re convenient.
Your sweeping generalization comes across as wildly condescending. People who hook up don’t have integrity and aren’t authentic?
Why are you judging people who are taking a different path through life than you have? Wrapping it up in platitudes doesn’t make it any better.
Hookup “culture” also isn’t anything new. Gay men have been hooking up as long as there have been gay men. The only thing that changes is how we find each other. The apps just provided a different way for people to connect.
In one sense, you are correct. Person is lonely, they turn to apps because they’re convenient, accessible, and allow us to parse through a large number of people quickly without even needing to get out of bed.
On the other hand, I think that social media and apps more broadly are a cause of a lot of the loneliness that we feel in the western world. Most people here are probably younger westerners (myself included) who grew up with the internet and maybe even with social media their whole lives. For those that were born 50-75 years ago, people were much more gregarious than they are today. Having public or quasi-public meeting places where most people would hang out to meet others were the norm. While social media connects us to more people, it is more physically isolating, especially when you look at cultures that have more recently embraced it. My partner grew up in such a place and despite being an introvert, he knows and hangs around exponentially more people than I do. I have been in other cultures where this is common, such as Saudi Arabia. It’s hard to see when you haven’t looked, but our culture and the number of people we are close to has significantly declined as a result of social media.
Seems like kind of a blanket statement to make doesn’t it? I enjoy hooking up every now and again, it’s fun. I’m not looking for love or a relationship just some harmless casual fun. Apps aren’t for everyone though and definitely have their downsides, and I certainly agree people shouldn’t feel they have to use them but I think just characterizing everyone who uses them as lonely or unhappy is a bit harsh.
I would never meet other gays without the apps. Before the apps, once in a blue moon a straight friend would set you up with the only other gay person they knew. And that's how alot of us outside the cities met, even if we had nothing in common or weren't really attracted to eachother but you had to take what you could get because you really had no idea when another prospect might appear.
Before the apps, mostly for 30+/35 kids, we still had the Internet. We just didn't meet the guy living next door or our school bully, but we still met with men who had no problem driving a few kilometers... I had like 3 different accounts 15 years ago on 3 different sites, and I met my first guy through à web chat...
I agree with you, but how to end this cycle? Delete the app, retract, go to gay bars? Or use different apps in the hope to find something "better"?
In my experience, digital life is artificial as communication is delayed, gives room for interpretation, and the list of more or less hot guys let you think you have lots of opportunities. It's a self delusion. Like in a candy shop, you can't have them all and in most cases you can only observe and leave the shop hungry.
I think, there are some guys who prefer it that way. If you are of a certain type you are admired and have more chances. That's fine. Others may not be that lucky.
Another aspect: you can have a happy life *without* completely being alone. It's these Hollywood cliches showing these overly sugar-coated romances which tells us that you can only be happy if you have a partner or are married. And if fantasy hits reality, people are frustrated.
Good luck to everybody! ♥️
Meh. Maybe you're just friends with boomer gays who haven't figured out how to connect with people in ways that aren't just "one night stand" or "married for 30 years".
The lonely and unhappy guys I know are the ones who desperately try to cling to the idea that their life can only be complete if they find a life partner and so they reject any connections that don't fit into that mold.
The apps are what you make of them. They're an opportunity for you to connect with people. Whether that connection lasts for an hour, a week, a year, or longer - the duration doesn't determine its value.
This is absolutely true. I remind myself that the apps are a tool to put me in contact with people I otherwise may not meet. Wherever that connection goes is up to us and how things work out. Reminding myself that helps me take the apps in stride. I also encourage myself to take breaks from the apps as I need to.
>The apps are what you make of them. They're an opportunity for you to connect with people. Whether that connection lasts for an hour, a week, a year, or longer - the duration doesn't determine its value.
Agree 💯 here. After I came out of a 16 year relationship I was bewildered with the apps. One of my best gay mates actually said to me exactly what you said in that first sentence: the apps are what you make of them!!
It's true. I met some great guys being very explicit in what I was after. I had a six month relationship firstly, using Grindr. And I met my current partner on Scruff and we have been together two years and still in a definite honeymoon phase!
Yeah, agreed. Though I don’t have experience with apps (ltr of 28 years) to me it would seem to be like social media. I see people (of all persuasions) complain about social media unironically not realizing what they are seeing is what they have ‘asked’ for in a way.
I have TikTok and Facebook. In the former all I see is science, gay couples, cute dogs. My FB has no politics. My subreddits have minimal assholes. I actively curate, avoid, block people, subreddits and topics and let the algorithm do the rest. My online experience is almost completely positive.
I don’t know if this would be the same with apps, but it is true of social media.
Funny, I know people in long term relationships who are lonely for the same reason - they haven't tried actually *making friends* outside their relationship.
Not everyone is suited for hookups, and that's fine - they shouldn't have them then. But the minute someone puts "integrity" in opposition with "having sex", I just assume they're not able to see past their own experiences.
A lonely life can lead to a hookup culture.
I am not partnered, nor am I lonely.
I love sex and I have a high libido. I have straight friends, and I have 1 fwb and a couple of fb.
I want more when I have the time.
> Live, and love, truthfully, authentically, and you will receive the same. ... Have integrity. Love yourself. Have faith in what you do. ... Give. Just give.
Allow me to offer a counterpoint to OP's sweeping generalizations about hookup app culture and affirmational boomer Eat Pray Love platitudes: the apps are what you make of them. I've cultivated genuine, awesome friendships and fwbs via hookup apps. I agree about being genuine but I'd recommend "Know what you want, and settle for nothing less" over "Give. Just give." and "Be safe, be smart" over "There's no such thing as luck".
> the apps are what you make of them. I've cultivated genuine, awesome friendships and fwbs via hookup apps.
This exactly! And I will add: **"Unfounded expectations are resentments waiting to happen."** If you go on any date or hookup with the *expectation* that this is going to be "The One" or "the thing that will fulfill me" then you're setting *yourself* up. Set that bar more realistically: "I'm going to make some kind of connection with this person," which you will of some degree, and it feels easier.
I've been married over a decade, and open for the last handful of years - the number of cool connections I've made around the world has been amazing, many of whom I'm still connected with on socials and plan to see again when we can. And many of my best friends locally began with a hookup.
I recognize the "privilege" of already being in a relationship, so it's "easy" for me to approach it with that level of casualness. But I have a lot of friends who identify as "solo poly" or just aren't *wanting* to nest yet, and they have had similar experiences forming genuine, meaningful connections at their own pace, on their own terms, without it feeling empty or lonely.
Funny, I had this exact thought the other day. My husband had a health scare ( high chance something was cancer, tested, luckily not) and I went there in my head. I’ve had two ‘loves of my life’, the first died. If I had the very unlucky experience of having two soulmates die on me, I’d be ‘solo poly’. Like that term. I’ve had two incredible relationships. I don’t need or want another. I’d be very happy with FWB or solo poly.
lol. ‘Sweeping generalizations about hookup culture…’
‘Affirmational boomer Eat Pray Love platitudes’
Hmm, speaking of sweeping generalizations :).
Sorry, as a boomer, I just found that funny. No hate.
To be honest, I think it’s the wrong boomer demographic here. Most of the boomer gay friends I have, like me, have survivor’s guilt. Of the gay men and friends I had in my 20s (1980s), over a 1/3 had passed before I was in my mid 30s. I and my friends are ANYTHING but ‘eat prey love’. Just saying.
Not entirely related but I think requiring a person to have hot photos, behave perfectly and disclose every sexual kink before meeting up is not a great start. Much prefer the less polished profiles.
Agreed. Now I am in a stable monogamous relationship but I had my days of sexual builimia. More, more, more. Now I realize that what truly makes me happy when connecting sexually/romantically with a man is: Can I build a community with this guy? In other words, can we have a group of friends, family and do activities together besides having sex? If the answer is no....then I spend my energy elsewhere. Culturally, I think there's too much emphasis of pleasure, freedom, and individualism, but to build something meanignful and long-lasting it also takes sacrifice and discipline. Yes, there's a ton of good looking men out there...but staying loyal creates a safe space for true vulnerability and companionship to emerge between two lovers.
I understand where you are coming from though I’m old enough and have been in a relationship long enough (3 decades) that I have never been on the apps so I don’t have data :)
Not to be pedantic (though I am lol), I disagree with this:
“No, I’m not lucky. There is no such thing’
There is. I look at my life and see luck, or things I had little control over and that’s true of every one.
I was lucky I was born into a middle class American family.
I was lucky that gay rights in my country made progress.
I was lucky not to have some chronic dehabilitating mental (or physical) condition.
I was lucky that someone saved me when I attempted suicide
I was lucky that I even met my husband who was living 2000 miles away and we just so happened to be in the same place at the same time.
And so on.
I don’t think this absolves us of making an effort and making right choices (or learning from bad ones) I’ve made so of those that let me be where I am in life. Nor does it give us license to just give and say it’s all bad luck. But it doesn’t mean that luck hasn’t played a big part in where and who we are.
I guess you could, like my mother, believe things happen because they were meant to, but I don’t. At. All.
Anyway sorry for the philosophical tangent.
Being in a relationship can also lead to a lonely life. I'm in a dead bedroom marriage and I'd rather be single again and having occasional sex than in this situation of having no sex at all.
I do share my opinion and views with you. I am not a fan of using dating apps or hookup apps for sexual fun. For me, true genuine sex should be a product of a sincere relationship. It doesn't have to be pure marriage, but at least a form of partnership should be there.
But at the same time, I do not judge, criticise, or envy guys who do use apps to fulfil their sexual needs. That is okay. Everyone has a different drive. And reasoks why he does it.
Yes, having a long-lasting relationship is something truly wonderful. But, this is a big BUT, getting hurt in such a relationship can put you on a mental pedestal.
Unfortunately, I had such an experience where I loved truly and with my whole heart. I chose him as a partner because I thought he deserved all my love, all my attention, and all my heart. I love to give, and I thought I was helping him by giving myself. It turns out that I was a tool for him. He deceived me and left me broken.
And this is where my conclusion comes, finally! I do not think I will ever be ready to commit again and love this much. I am scared and afraid. This courageous attempt to find a genuine guy failed, and yes, it was my mistake. I forgot to love myself. Though, I still have needs. However, I am not a big fan of hookups, and one night, one sex - and this is a bit tricky.
Be open for relationships, but only if you can handle the defeat - in case if it comes. But also, be authentic and love yourself. Don't allow other people to define your boundaries. Love is not just an emotion it is a spectrum or hard work, and many other things.
Your viewpoint is just cringy.
"...every single person I know who “hooks up” on apps is lonely and unhappy."
And everybody I see in "relationships" is unfaithful and/or is just a roommate. How many times do I have to see "I haven't had sex in 1 year" to know I don't want one?
I've had 3 relationships. 1 bad, two good, 1 dead.
"I do know of people who found their partner on apps, and found happiness through their own means and rules but it’s not the norm." You're being judgemental *again* as if you are the golden one.
So tell me, how long have you been in your relationship?
How many relationships end up in divorce?
I'm not lonely or unhappy. My mom died at 62. My dad lived to be 87. He didn't remarry. He lived another 25 years!
I've decided to take another route and hire escorts. I did it for many reasons, mostly because I can't stand using my cell phone for anything other than calls and texts. I've learned a lot about myself through this process. Sure - there have been times when I've been left feeling lonely, after the oxytocin of the connection wears off, and I want it again. I then remember that for me, this is a phase, that too shall pass. I thank the guys I've met (some have become friends) for re-igniting a fire in my loins and life. As for the folks who judgementally say "I've NEVER had to pay for it in my life" I simply answer "And I've seen what you've dragged home for free, dear, and it's nothing to brag about."
You create your own misery. I had a blast hooking up in my 20s and so did countless others even before apps. You can still choose monogamy at any time. I'm in a monogamous relationship now for going 7 years.
I’d say you are pretty lucky tbh. Your mode of being in the world is one that others vibe with, one enough to choose to spend their life with you. That’s huge when you think about it! We’re here once that we know of, and a whole human being with all of the fears and hopes we all have met you and went Yes, this guy right here! All the chips on him!
My authentic life is to isolate and autistically hyperfocus on making art. I have a lot of art in my house now. No people though.
I like to have long hair and make up and pretty dresses. I was so excited when I came out, omg someone’s gonna think I’m hot and I’ll get to get railed in a cute summer dress or something.
I have never met someone for whom any of that was appealing. People are impressed by my work but don’t stick around for it.
And yeah I have put myself out there, to the point of doing my art on the stage to queer audiences in my city. I met a lot of people.
Still never been with a guy. Haven’t been with a woman for many years. I *am* bi but women found me too passive and I hated having to play a role for them. I just don’t know how to vibe with people and that’s not my fault.
Everyone has to figure out what works for them. Hooking up can get lonely and repetitive for some folks, or just stay an adventure. A series of beautiful moments which can be as meaningful or meaningless as you want them to be. My husband and I kept our relationship open so we could have our cake and eat it too, but as we get older we both have less interest in hooking up. We have a few steady fwbs instead.
But again, it wouldn’t work for a lot of people. You have to find your own way and not judge what anyone else does as long as they’re being cool.
I’m lonely all the time and it hasn’t much to do with the hookup apps or my use of them. It might exacerbate loneliness for some people but certainly not for me.
I fully understand that part of dealing with loneliness and learning to be okay being alone and all the “love oneself” stuff that comes with that. But even if I do reach the pinnacle of happiness or self-worth, it doesn’t mean I’m going to stop hooking up or fucking other guys. I’m a guy. I need sex.
Being in a bad relationship is lonely af. I for one think that is worse than hook ups. I feel its the total opposite. I can be who I am, and if they don't like it, then they can go somewhere else. I think I'm coming to terms where I don't need anyone to be happy, and its very empowering. Of course I have no clue what the future holds, I might change my perspective, but right now I'm excited for the future.
im fascinated how many people who apparently dont partake in hookup culture know exactly how the actual hookup culture people and their lives look like ;)
"Don’t buy into the culture that you have to have sex with everyone you meet or match up with on apps." no one says that, literally. no one. thats a reddit gaycel opinion.
most people who hookup, since ive meet hundreds, maybe thousands of them, are just normal gay guys who simply sometimes want sex. nothing more, nothing less. your whole text is very far from any reality.
It seems like hyperbole or projection to judge everyone on an app to be an addict. Not everyone who goes into a bar is an alcoholic. Not all drivers speed excessively. Not everyone in a casino is a gambler. These apps are there and some people use them to find sex partners. But anyone with excessive compulsive behaviors is likely to use some sort of medium to do their thing. I don’t use dating apps because I am in a monogamous relationship, but that doesn’t make me any less inclined to promiscuous behaviors. I have just chosen to not do that for several decades. Doesn’t make me better or worse than anyone else. And it doesn’t make my personal relationship something to brag about. But I guess we all tend to look at the world thru our own prism.
The blanket generalizations offered on Reddit in the form of short TED talks are insufferable. Not every deep thought that pops into your head needs to be shared. It’s as if you need to validate your presence by a nod of approval from other people. Oh, wait…
This is another one of those "everyone is like what I observe" posts.
You've missed an entire segment of the population... guys in healthy, happy, committed, open relationships who use that apps to hook up. Those guys (us guys) seem to have rich fulfilling lives, the exact **opposite** of lonely.
Well, I found love through a dating app but I explicity said "I'm looking for an innocent love like heartstopper" and systematocally turned down every hookup offer until this wonderful bottom who shared my love for literature, archery, astology, board games, roleplaying, vampires and my wicca beliefs and I got a match. We stayed up all night chatting, kept textung nonstop every day since. We went on a bunch of dates, eventually had sex and decided to become a couple.
The apps aren't the problem but the mindset most users come to it with. Been contacted by many men looking for sth serious before him but we just didn't click. I wouldn't know what to talk about with a sports fan or a gym goer after like 2 minutes.
Being relationship-oriented is hardly less lonely. Every space to meet other guys inevitably turns into a hookup space. I've dated for a sum total of 4 years, and I don't do hookups.
At least if I were being used up, I wouldn't be counting how long it's been since someone touched me in years.
& then there are the men who are supposedly in fulfilling loving relationships who still feel the need to hookup under the guise of an open relationship. That also seems empty to me.
Apps are literally gaydar and perfect for making initial connections, casual fun, visiting a new location or a light date, after that it’s up to the both of you if it evolves to something more.
What makes hookup culture unhealthy is mainly the frequency and intensity of the hookups, if your fucking a random stranger 3x week and an orgy of drugs on the weekends that’s very unhealthy both physically and psychologically.
I mean, it's not like being happily married with a white picket fence doesn't mean you can't still find yourself unexpectedly alone at 40.
I mostly agree with you. But, I will add a couple points: First, a lot of guys use hooking up as an escape from the stresses of modern life and their own internal turmoil. A quick hookup, a shot of dopamine, some positive attention from a stranger, and you feel better for a little bit. For someone who is lonely, that's a potent cocktail. Second, there's a lot of guys who have been burned repeatedly in dating and just gave up on the idea of a normal relationship. So they live their lives for themselves, and use hookups as a way to satisfy a need that, for them, has become a purely physical transaction. Ideals about love, dating, and relationships are hard to maintain in the face of modern gay life.
>Second, there's a lot of guys who have been burned repeatedly in dating Equally I've come across many guys who don't have the self-awareness or willingness to analyse themselves to take accountability for their own failures in dating and relationships.
That’s me! Yesterday I hooked up with three guys, to varying degrees of success. And another on Friday. Why? It was Sunday, I was bored and had no other plans. My secret hope: to find a connection with someone that would let me delete the apps. It’s easier to find a hook up than a date. One guy asked early morning to meet for a coffee right way, without any conversation. I declined. But if he’d asked me for sex, I probably would have said “sure, gimme a minute to shower!” Which is what the second guy did and I said yes.
If your secret hope is to find a connection, maybe have coffee with guys like that one once and a while too.
I would have if we’d had a decent conversation first. It went from “hey what’s up? I’m just waking up” to “let’s go for a coffee” without any other conversation first, including “do you live anywhere even close to me?”
It is insane to me to think a quicker route to someone is through sex vs. through conversation. But I was born in the 1700’s and am a vampire sooo..
That doesn't seem too forward, especially since you said you would have had sex with him if he'd asked.
Interesting response. The coffee IS for conversation. How much do you need before that? I've met lots of guys for coffee and the only conversation before was, "you wanna grab a coffee?" This can lead to further dating if you vibe from there. You might wanna revisit that person.
well, why text much when you can have a way nicer chat in person? Back when I was on Tinder for actual dating, I was never much of a texter but rather asked for a date very quickly in the conversation because I simply prefer meeting and talking than texting.
Wait you turned down the guy who asked for coffee despite you secretly hoping to connect with someone? And you found it easier to have anonymous sex with someone but found it off putting to be randomly propositioned for coffee?? Am I missing something here?
This!
That is wishful thinking OP. Some of us are living authentically and doing our best, and are still only getting hookups / are single etc. Please do not judge.
Not everyone on the apps are lonely (nor desperate). Depends on the guy. Some people truly enjoy hooking up. Or having a FWB. And then some are desperately in need of companionship, looking online for Mr Right. So a very mixed bag of men...
I feel like this post paints a very ugly picture that may describe some people, but not that many. It's trying to paint everyone who enjoys hookups through the apps as some lonely, miserable addict. Some people just enjoy connecting sexually with lots of people. It doesn't really need to be any deeper than that. It's not fundamentally different than any other hobby. Do some people use hobbies as escapes from problems? Sure, some do. Most don't.
The OP is definitely self-projecting. Highly annoying!
Yes whilst it maybe well meaning but its very preachy and makes broad based and inaccurate generalisations. It maybe because hes not / hasnt had much / or only had negative experiences on apps and hooking up. Exactly the same way when str8s make flawed generalisations about gays borne our of Ignorance and not knowing any gays.
Have you considered that the lonely and unhappy people you know on the apps are there *because* they’re lonely and unhappy? The apps aren’t the cause of their loneliness, they’re an expression of it. I know plenty of perfectly happy, well adjusted people who use the apps to hook up because they’re convenient. Your sweeping generalization comes across as wildly condescending. People who hook up don’t have integrity and aren’t authentic? Why are you judging people who are taking a different path through life than you have? Wrapping it up in platitudes doesn’t make it any better. Hookup “culture” also isn’t anything new. Gay men have been hooking up as long as there have been gay men. The only thing that changes is how we find each other. The apps just provided a different way for people to connect.
In one sense, you are correct. Person is lonely, they turn to apps because they’re convenient, accessible, and allow us to parse through a large number of people quickly without even needing to get out of bed. On the other hand, I think that social media and apps more broadly are a cause of a lot of the loneliness that we feel in the western world. Most people here are probably younger westerners (myself included) who grew up with the internet and maybe even with social media their whole lives. For those that were born 50-75 years ago, people were much more gregarious than they are today. Having public or quasi-public meeting places where most people would hang out to meet others were the norm. While social media connects us to more people, it is more physically isolating, especially when you look at cultures that have more recently embraced it. My partner grew up in such a place and despite being an introvert, he knows and hangs around exponentially more people than I do. I have been in other cultures where this is common, such as Saudi Arabia. It’s hard to see when you haven’t looked, but our culture and the number of people we are close to has significantly declined as a result of social media.
Seems like kind of a blanket statement to make doesn’t it? I enjoy hooking up every now and again, it’s fun. I’m not looking for love or a relationship just some harmless casual fun. Apps aren’t for everyone though and definitely have their downsides, and I certainly agree people shouldn’t feel they have to use them but I think just characterizing everyone who uses them as lonely or unhappy is a bit harsh.
I would never meet other gays without the apps. Before the apps, once in a blue moon a straight friend would set you up with the only other gay person they knew. And that's how alot of us outside the cities met, even if we had nothing in common or weren't really attracted to eachother but you had to take what you could get because you really had no idea when another prospect might appear.
Before the apps, mostly for 30+/35 kids, we still had the Internet. We just didn't meet the guy living next door or our school bully, but we still met with men who had no problem driving a few kilometers... I had like 3 different accounts 15 years ago on 3 different sites, and I met my first guy through à web chat...
I agree with you, but how to end this cycle? Delete the app, retract, go to gay bars? Or use different apps in the hope to find something "better"? In my experience, digital life is artificial as communication is delayed, gives room for interpretation, and the list of more or less hot guys let you think you have lots of opportunities. It's a self delusion. Like in a candy shop, you can't have them all and in most cases you can only observe and leave the shop hungry. I think, there are some guys who prefer it that way. If you are of a certain type you are admired and have more chances. That's fine. Others may not be that lucky. Another aspect: you can have a happy life *without* completely being alone. It's these Hollywood cliches showing these overly sugar-coated romances which tells us that you can only be happy if you have a partner or are married. And if fantasy hits reality, people are frustrated. Good luck to everybody! ♥️
Meh. Maybe you're just friends with boomer gays who haven't figured out how to connect with people in ways that aren't just "one night stand" or "married for 30 years". The lonely and unhappy guys I know are the ones who desperately try to cling to the idea that their life can only be complete if they find a life partner and so they reject any connections that don't fit into that mold. The apps are what you make of them. They're an opportunity for you to connect with people. Whether that connection lasts for an hour, a week, a year, or longer - the duration doesn't determine its value.
This is absolutely true. I remind myself that the apps are a tool to put me in contact with people I otherwise may not meet. Wherever that connection goes is up to us and how things work out. Reminding myself that helps me take the apps in stride. I also encourage myself to take breaks from the apps as I need to.
>The apps are what you make of them. They're an opportunity for you to connect with people. Whether that connection lasts for an hour, a week, a year, or longer - the duration doesn't determine its value. Agree 💯 here. After I came out of a 16 year relationship I was bewildered with the apps. One of my best gay mates actually said to me exactly what you said in that first sentence: the apps are what you make of them!! It's true. I met some great guys being very explicit in what I was after. I had a six month relationship firstly, using Grindr. And I met my current partner on Scruff and we have been together two years and still in a definite honeymoon phase!
Yeah, agreed. Though I don’t have experience with apps (ltr of 28 years) to me it would seem to be like social media. I see people (of all persuasions) complain about social media unironically not realizing what they are seeing is what they have ‘asked’ for in a way. I have TikTok and Facebook. In the former all I see is science, gay couples, cute dogs. My FB has no politics. My subreddits have minimal assholes. I actively curate, avoid, block people, subreddits and topics and let the algorithm do the rest. My online experience is almost completely positive. I don’t know if this would be the same with apps, but it is true of social media.
I don't hook up and I'm still lonely so idk about that.
Funny, I know people in long term relationships who are lonely for the same reason - they haven't tried actually *making friends* outside their relationship. Not everyone is suited for hookups, and that's fine - they shouldn't have them then. But the minute someone puts "integrity" in opposition with "having sex", I just assume they're not able to see past their own experiences.
A lonely life can lead to a hookup culture. I am not partnered, nor am I lonely. I love sex and I have a high libido. I have straight friends, and I have 1 fwb and a couple of fb. I want more when I have the time.
> Live, and love, truthfully, authentically, and you will receive the same. ... Have integrity. Love yourself. Have faith in what you do. ... Give. Just give. Allow me to offer a counterpoint to OP's sweeping generalizations about hookup app culture and affirmational boomer Eat Pray Love platitudes: the apps are what you make of them. I've cultivated genuine, awesome friendships and fwbs via hookup apps. I agree about being genuine but I'd recommend "Know what you want, and settle for nothing less" over "Give. Just give." and "Be safe, be smart" over "There's no such thing as luck".
> the apps are what you make of them. I've cultivated genuine, awesome friendships and fwbs via hookup apps. This exactly! And I will add: **"Unfounded expectations are resentments waiting to happen."** If you go on any date or hookup with the *expectation* that this is going to be "The One" or "the thing that will fulfill me" then you're setting *yourself* up. Set that bar more realistically: "I'm going to make some kind of connection with this person," which you will of some degree, and it feels easier. I've been married over a decade, and open for the last handful of years - the number of cool connections I've made around the world has been amazing, many of whom I'm still connected with on socials and plan to see again when we can. And many of my best friends locally began with a hookup. I recognize the "privilege" of already being in a relationship, so it's "easy" for me to approach it with that level of casualness. But I have a lot of friends who identify as "solo poly" or just aren't *wanting* to nest yet, and they have had similar experiences forming genuine, meaningful connections at their own pace, on their own terms, without it feeling empty or lonely.
Funny, I had this exact thought the other day. My husband had a health scare ( high chance something was cancer, tested, luckily not) and I went there in my head. I’ve had two ‘loves of my life’, the first died. If I had the very unlucky experience of having two soulmates die on me, I’d be ‘solo poly’. Like that term. I’ve had two incredible relationships. I don’t need or want another. I’d be very happy with FWB or solo poly.
Solo poly is a beautiful thing for a lot of folks, and it's enough of a "thing" that there are books about it, websites about it, etc.
lol. ‘Sweeping generalizations about hookup culture…’ ‘Affirmational boomer Eat Pray Love platitudes’ Hmm, speaking of sweeping generalizations :). Sorry, as a boomer, I just found that funny. No hate. To be honest, I think it’s the wrong boomer demographic here. Most of the boomer gay friends I have, like me, have survivor’s guilt. Of the gay men and friends I had in my 20s (1980s), over a 1/3 had passed before I was in my mid 30s. I and my friends are ANYTHING but ‘eat prey love’. Just saying.
Not entirely related but I think requiring a person to have hot photos, behave perfectly and disclose every sexual kink before meeting up is not a great start. Much prefer the less polished profiles.
It seems clinical and boring to me. I don’t want to go full ‘get off my sexy lawn’ but mystery was part of the excitement of old-fashioned cruising.
Agreed. Now I am in a stable monogamous relationship but I had my days of sexual builimia. More, more, more. Now I realize that what truly makes me happy when connecting sexually/romantically with a man is: Can I build a community with this guy? In other words, can we have a group of friends, family and do activities together besides having sex? If the answer is no....then I spend my energy elsewhere. Culturally, I think there's too much emphasis of pleasure, freedom, and individualism, but to build something meanignful and long-lasting it also takes sacrifice and discipline. Yes, there's a ton of good looking men out there...but staying loyal creates a safe space for true vulnerability and companionship to emerge between two lovers.
I understand where you are coming from though I’m old enough and have been in a relationship long enough (3 decades) that I have never been on the apps so I don’t have data :) Not to be pedantic (though I am lol), I disagree with this: “No, I’m not lucky. There is no such thing’ There is. I look at my life and see luck, or things I had little control over and that’s true of every one. I was lucky I was born into a middle class American family. I was lucky that gay rights in my country made progress. I was lucky not to have some chronic dehabilitating mental (or physical) condition. I was lucky that someone saved me when I attempted suicide I was lucky that I even met my husband who was living 2000 miles away and we just so happened to be in the same place at the same time. And so on. I don’t think this absolves us of making an effort and making right choices (or learning from bad ones) I’ve made so of those that let me be where I am in life. Nor does it give us license to just give and say it’s all bad luck. But it doesn’t mean that luck hasn’t played a big part in where and who we are. I guess you could, like my mother, believe things happen because they were meant to, but I don’t. At. All. Anyway sorry for the philosophical tangent.
Being in a relationship can also lead to a lonely life. I'm in a dead bedroom marriage and I'd rather be single again and having occasional sex than in this situation of having no sex at all.
I do share my opinion and views with you. I am not a fan of using dating apps or hookup apps for sexual fun. For me, true genuine sex should be a product of a sincere relationship. It doesn't have to be pure marriage, but at least a form of partnership should be there. But at the same time, I do not judge, criticise, or envy guys who do use apps to fulfil their sexual needs. That is okay. Everyone has a different drive. And reasoks why he does it. Yes, having a long-lasting relationship is something truly wonderful. But, this is a big BUT, getting hurt in such a relationship can put you on a mental pedestal. Unfortunately, I had such an experience where I loved truly and with my whole heart. I chose him as a partner because I thought he deserved all my love, all my attention, and all my heart. I love to give, and I thought I was helping him by giving myself. It turns out that I was a tool for him. He deceived me and left me broken. And this is where my conclusion comes, finally! I do not think I will ever be ready to commit again and love this much. I am scared and afraid. This courageous attempt to find a genuine guy failed, and yes, it was my mistake. I forgot to love myself. Though, I still have needs. However, I am not a big fan of hookups, and one night, one sex - and this is a bit tricky. Be open for relationships, but only if you can handle the defeat - in case if it comes. But also, be authentic and love yourself. Don't allow other people to define your boundaries. Love is not just an emotion it is a spectrum or hard work, and many other things.
Your viewpoint is just cringy. "...every single person I know who “hooks up” on apps is lonely and unhappy." And everybody I see in "relationships" is unfaithful and/or is just a roommate. How many times do I have to see "I haven't had sex in 1 year" to know I don't want one? I've had 3 relationships. 1 bad, two good, 1 dead. "I do know of people who found their partner on apps, and found happiness through their own means and rules but it’s not the norm." You're being judgemental *again* as if you are the golden one. So tell me, how long have you been in your relationship? How many relationships end up in divorce? I'm not lonely or unhappy. My mom died at 62. My dad lived to be 87. He didn't remarry. He lived another 25 years!
This! 👆👆👆
I've decided to take another route and hire escorts. I did it for many reasons, mostly because I can't stand using my cell phone for anything other than calls and texts. I've learned a lot about myself through this process. Sure - there have been times when I've been left feeling lonely, after the oxytocin of the connection wears off, and I want it again. I then remember that for me, this is a phase, that too shall pass. I thank the guys I've met (some have become friends) for re-igniting a fire in my loins and life. As for the folks who judgementally say "I've NEVER had to pay for it in my life" I simply answer "And I've seen what you've dragged home for free, dear, and it's nothing to brag about."
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? what does "pmsl" mean?
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thank you for keeping me in textese heaven! :-)
Needed to hear this. Especially after deleting these apps 24 hours ago.
You create your own misery. I had a blast hooking up in my 20s and so did countless others even before apps. You can still choose monogamy at any time. I'm in a monogamous relationship now for going 7 years.
I’d say you are pretty lucky tbh. Your mode of being in the world is one that others vibe with, one enough to choose to spend their life with you. That’s huge when you think about it! We’re here once that we know of, and a whole human being with all of the fears and hopes we all have met you and went Yes, this guy right here! All the chips on him! My authentic life is to isolate and autistically hyperfocus on making art. I have a lot of art in my house now. No people though. I like to have long hair and make up and pretty dresses. I was so excited when I came out, omg someone’s gonna think I’m hot and I’ll get to get railed in a cute summer dress or something. I have never met someone for whom any of that was appealing. People are impressed by my work but don’t stick around for it. And yeah I have put myself out there, to the point of doing my art on the stage to queer audiences in my city. I met a lot of people. Still never been with a guy. Haven’t been with a woman for many years. I *am* bi but women found me too passive and I hated having to play a role for them. I just don’t know how to vibe with people and that’s not my fault.
Everyone has to figure out what works for them. Hooking up can get lonely and repetitive for some folks, or just stay an adventure. A series of beautiful moments which can be as meaningful or meaningless as you want them to be. My husband and I kept our relationship open so we could have our cake and eat it too, but as we get older we both have less interest in hooking up. We have a few steady fwbs instead. But again, it wouldn’t work for a lot of people. You have to find your own way and not judge what anyone else does as long as they’re being cool.
I’m lonely all the time and it hasn’t much to do with the hookup apps or my use of them. It might exacerbate loneliness for some people but certainly not for me. I fully understand that part of dealing with loneliness and learning to be okay being alone and all the “love oneself” stuff that comes with that. But even if I do reach the pinnacle of happiness or self-worth, it doesn’t mean I’m going to stop hooking up or fucking other guys. I’m a guy. I need sex.
Being in a bad relationship is lonely af. I for one think that is worse than hook ups. I feel its the total opposite. I can be who I am, and if they don't like it, then they can go somewhere else. I think I'm coming to terms where I don't need anyone to be happy, and its very empowering. Of course I have no clue what the future holds, I might change my perspective, but right now I'm excited for the future.
im fascinated how many people who apparently dont partake in hookup culture know exactly how the actual hookup culture people and their lives look like ;) "Don’t buy into the culture that you have to have sex with everyone you meet or match up with on apps." no one says that, literally. no one. thats a reddit gaycel opinion. most people who hookup, since ive meet hundreds, maybe thousands of them, are just normal gay guys who simply sometimes want sex. nothing more, nothing less. your whole text is very far from any reality.
It seems like hyperbole or projection to judge everyone on an app to be an addict. Not everyone who goes into a bar is an alcoholic. Not all drivers speed excessively. Not everyone in a casino is a gambler. These apps are there and some people use them to find sex partners. But anyone with excessive compulsive behaviors is likely to use some sort of medium to do their thing. I don’t use dating apps because I am in a monogamous relationship, but that doesn’t make me any less inclined to promiscuous behaviors. I have just chosen to not do that for several decades. Doesn’t make me better or worse than anyone else. And it doesn’t make my personal relationship something to brag about. But I guess we all tend to look at the world thru our own prism.
The blanket generalizations offered on Reddit in the form of short TED talks are insufferable. Not every deep thought that pops into your head needs to be shared. It’s as if you need to validate your presence by a nod of approval from other people. Oh, wait…
Well I do not hookup and I'm still lonely as fuck so I'm not sure what you're getting at here other than to make people feel bad.
This is another one of those "everyone is like what I observe" posts. You've missed an entire segment of the population... guys in healthy, happy, committed, open relationships who use that apps to hook up. Those guys (us guys) seem to have rich fulfilling lives, the exact **opposite** of lonely.
Well, I found love through a dating app but I explicity said "I'm looking for an innocent love like heartstopper" and systematocally turned down every hookup offer until this wonderful bottom who shared my love for literature, archery, astology, board games, roleplaying, vampires and my wicca beliefs and I got a match. We stayed up all night chatting, kept textung nonstop every day since. We went on a bunch of dates, eventually had sex and decided to become a couple. The apps aren't the problem but the mindset most users come to it with. Been contacted by many men looking for sth serious before him but we just didn't click. I wouldn't know what to talk about with a sports fan or a gym goer after like 2 minutes.
Close friends create a family that loves you. Having a fuck buddy and several FWB fulfills the desire for sexual intimacy.
Being relationship-oriented is hardly less lonely. Every space to meet other guys inevitably turns into a hookup space. I've dated for a sum total of 4 years, and I don't do hookups. At least if I were being used up, I wouldn't be counting how long it's been since someone touched me in years.
But how will I measure my self worth, if not by the amount of Twitter followers the guy I fucked has, and his bicep width?
Another guy who got lucky and is SURE he EARNED every cent of it!
& then there are the men who are supposedly in fulfilling loving relationships who still feel the need to hookup under the guise of an open relationship. That also seems empty to me.
If you think you are missing out on sex with several different guys, you’ll find sometimes pleasuring yourself is more satisfying 🤷🏻
A lot of people seem to want the best of both worlds by having open relationship. Sometimes works, sometimes doesn’t.
Honestly I believe your right
You ARE lucky that you found love. Some of us do all the things you say we should but still haven’t found love.
Apps are literally gaydar and perfect for making initial connections, casual fun, visiting a new location or a light date, after that it’s up to the both of you if it evolves to something more. What makes hookup culture unhealthy is mainly the frequency and intensity of the hookups, if your fucking a random stranger 3x week and an orgy of drugs on the weekends that’s very unhealthy both physically and psychologically.
It’s kind of wild that even in 2024 we can’t imagine that some people actually just enjoy sex and want to have more of it.
This is an incredibly toxic way to think about a bunch of people you don’t know. Also hooking up isn’t a culture.