I think it's something to chat through with your wife rather than a general question. Maybe ask her to list the things she likes about living here, and you list the things you like(d) about living elsewhere.
You've got two young kids, life is tough anywhere because kids are demanding.
But - I’d wait to chat about it more with your wife. The 8 weeks or so after having a newborn are TOUGH, and then it gradually gets easier. Now is the time to support your family and focus on getting through this time. Not the time to be taking about moving. You might be struggling with the newborn/toddler phase and using imagining moving as an escape. Fair enough! But don’t burden your wife with that right now. And recognize that it might be a bit of an escapist fantasy for you as well.
> chat through with your wife
YES !!!
You need common / shared financial goals and responsibilities.
Most marriages fall apart because of finances, so.. getting on the same page (which isn't blank), and having some plan that you can periodically evolve over time, and measure your own situation against will remove some of the stress and the unhappiness.
You can start with Ramit Sethi's CSP.
Also write down some long term goals, e.g. figure out with your wife, do you two want to own a house, when? Do you want that more or less than e.g. 1 airplane holiday per year, or e.g. a slightly older/newer car.
What would it take from you in Ireland, what would it take in UK. Do you want to retire on more than 1000 eur per month (in today's money) - how?
btw, my own personal estimates, are that rent in Ireland will be rising on average 5-10% year on year in nominal terms, for the foreseeable 10 years. And that over that time your wage will drop in real terms 3%-6% in real terms unless you make progress in your job - same thing with any kind of government support for 90%+ of things out there.
On the other hand, as an electrician, you can see how sucky and backwards and slow government thinking is in Ireland re renewables Will it get better? if yes, you're in the right line of work.
Lots of people here encouraging you to talk this through with you wife and that’s definitely the right move — but if I were you I’d wait a few months until her body and mind have had a chance to settle down a bit after having a baby. She’s probably exhausted and sore and emotionally spent, and I can’t imagine a conversation about moving away from her family/friends/support network would go well right now!
Is your wife dead set against it right now or ever? With two young kids she probably needs some support from family and friends and it might just be what she needs right now. Moving babies anywhere sounds like a nightmare and could be very isolating for her. Ye are probably both wrecked just from the day to day living with kids that small.
I feel for you OP cos I've always felt like if my parents weren't around I'd be gone like a shot. The country as it is right now only works well for either single couples with no kids on savage wages or people who were born into wealth. Other than that it's a tough slog.
Appreciate that response pal. I'm not sure, it's definitely a right now situation like you said with the young kids. But then again there'll always be something. Kids adapt so quickly so in my eyes it's the best time to go.
But your right, she does need family and friends to. Yeah your right. It's a tough life here. Tbf I thought when I moved to England I'd be back within 6 months over missing my parents but I really surprised myself with how easy I found it. Obviously a 40 minute flight is very different to aus 😂😂
Other aspects are the community side, and I mean friends and family life events that are much easier to attend.
Night out? Grandparents happy to babysit 9 times out of 10.
Obviously you get used to it over in the UK missing them or travelling over for just the bigger ones, but something to think about.
Put together a long term plan for both countries and see how quickly you could save to own a house as part of the discussion.
Why not come up to Northern Ireland? It would be a good mid way for what you are looking for. I know of many southerners who have come up and are shocked at how much more affordable things are.
As you say, there will always be something. However as some one with a 2 year old and a 6 month year old living in a foreign country with no family other my my wife. I'm going to have to strongly disagree that now is the best time to go. I assume you wife is on maternity leave? How long till she's back to work (if she works)? If you leave now, you'll be leaving her at home with the kids in a new country with no family or friends. And what does her work contract say? If she doesn't go back to work for a minimum period after maternity leave does she owe them money?
Schools start at the end of January in Australia. I'd at least get Christmas over you before going.
Coming at this from the point of the Wife Who Wants to Stay .... My husband would love for us to move away, his job is manual, he thinks there are apparently loooads of opportunities in Oz, the weather is better etc. BUT - I am very close to my family, and my community here - involved in kids sports etc. I wouldn't leave because I value family & local human connections over money and weather. He is useless to organise a social life, and just wants us to up sticks and move, and have me make all the effort for making friends in the area, ensuring the kids make friends, and that we all have a social life. Not going to happen.
And the things that are hard here - wrangling kids, sorting childcare, cost-of-living stuff - won't neccessarily be fixed by moving elsewhere where there's more sun
I would be more hands on with the kids and their sports and friends and school. I have my daughter in football since she was 2 and go with her every week and this will soon extend to gymnastics and dancing.
Youre right, everything that's hard here will be hard there. But on the other hand, we only get one life and one chance at trying it. It can be a one year thing or a two year thing.
But I get your point of view and I appreciate it thanks
Yeah fair play for really thinking it through .... you'll have to have a serious discussion with your wife ... for me the idea of uprooting my kids who are happy, settled and thriving, upsets me viscerally, I couldn't do it. And the idea of having no family support at all gives me the shivers ....its not neccessarily very logical at all!!
Sounds like a conversation to have with your wife. You said she is dead set against it and there is 'no way you are leaving your two kids'. Would you leave if it was 'just' your wife? When you say 'opportunities' I assume don't mean opportunities to share your children's lives with extended family - but financial opportunities? There is nothing wrong about it either way, but you (money) and your wife (extended family) seem to have different ideas of what is most important in life. That's when it starts and ends for you - with your wife.
Grass always greener. House prices in Ireland are more in line with wages than in the UK or Oz, and a lot of Irish people come home to have their families because the social fabric is much stronger.
Is "the country" really getting to you, or is the "30s married with kids and settled" lifestyle getting to you.
I was always settled tbf. Had my going out days in my early 20s and after that I never really done much apart from the gym
I was renting a 3 bedroom house in the UK for 700im currently paying 1300 euro for the same size house
No it's not pal but like i said, I doubt we'll ever have enough saved for a mortgage with the price of rent here. I'd be making similar money but in sterling in the UK. So savings are a bit easier
There's no borrowing reg keeping prices in high demand areas in check like in Ireland. In Cork or Dublin, with world class employers in reach, a respectable family 3 bed can still be had for 3.5 times an average working couple's salary. To be within 3KM of decent employment in England or Australia for an affordable price, forget about it.
Genuinely not convinced that it is. I'm give or take 15 years from the beginning of the tide of my friends and acquaintances emigrating. Vancouver, London, Brisbane, etc, the typical places to go.
Without exception, all the emigrants are still more or less where they were when they left - housesharing or renting, working but with nothing to really show for it. Nearly everyone who stayed to weather out the recession has their own house now in their 30s. The difference is striking in their selves too. It's like the emigrant lot are still 19, and situationally, they kind of are.
Tbf that's just your mates who may or may not be total wasters even with a euromillions win. So anecdotally doesn't affect how green the grass can be.
Also staying in Ireland and putting yourself in 100k's debt isn't anything to be too delighted about tbh.
I also emigrated 3times. 2008, 20113 and 2021.
I only came back in 2018 for family reasons but can honestly tell you now I will never return home for longer than a holiday.
The grass is truly greener where I am now. A 200k job couldn't get me to return
Trying to give my children a better life with more opportunities and freedom would be my goal. Their accents would be very low on my priority list of moving and would also be a pretty pathetic excuse not to move somewhere for a better life
Just from the perspective of someone who moved to Ireland as a teenager. My family moved here around 2007 when things were great, loads of jobs going around, a lot better quality of life than in our home country. I was older than your kids so maybe they wouldn't have the same issues (I was 14 when I came to Ireland) but it was tough trying to settle here with new culture (especially since English is not my first language).
Anyway, my point is - my parents brought me and my brother here convinced we will have better opportunities in life. After all the hard work and hardships we all had, here we are, I am living in a country you yourself said you hate living in. I like living here and it's sort of my home now but it's sad to think I lost out on my own culture and experiences to end up at this point.
This is just to give you another perspective, but hey, from your post I think you have your mind made up. I don't really understand what you are looking for by writing this post, maybe you are just trying to affirm your beliefs?
Brilliant point of view to receive. Thank you for your input. Tbh, I wasn't sure what is as looking for. But I have received so many helpful comments and now feel much better than I did this morning
Also just to add, things were pretty good here up until COVID, inflation, immigration, war in Ukraine etc. I know that in other countries the quality of life is still better, but things went really downhill recently which is also something to consider.
Anyway best of luck and look at the bright side, wherever you end up!
I’m stuck presently. I’ve been living in the UK the last 12 years but my heart is breaking to move back to Ireland. I miss my family more than anything.
Can I ask what makes you unhappy about living in Ireland? I have fears that I’ll struggle with things like medical fees etc.
I'm with your wife here. I'm the one who lives away from home. We moved from Scotland to Ireland when my eldest was 5 (now 14) and we've 2 other young kids. They're 5 and 7. We live near my in laws now, and that's grand like as theyre in their 80s and we care for them, but I miss my family like sin. Nothing would have me back living in Scotland, but if I could bottle uo my mam and bring her over here I absolutely would.
There's not a hope I'd move away. My husband sometimes mentions the US as that's where he could make a fortune. But he'd be grand, he'd be off to work every day and not much would change for him except the country we lived in. Meanwhile, I'd be alone with the kids, in a foreign country, with no real means of meeting new people, no family support etc. You'd never have a date night again. Not until the kids are much older. There will be no breaks. There's no back up. When there's an emergency it's really scary not knowing who you can easily call. When a day is hard and you can't just ask your childhood friend or your sister round it makes it infinitely harder.
Edit: I thought this was a question about how do people deal with living in Ireland. I realise I havent given much advice but rather my own opinion on the question for myself. Do with it as you will.
Short answer: I never had to 'deal' with living in Ireland.
Long Answer: Im in the UK now for education, but it wasn't anything to do with living or working in Ireland. It was and is an absolute joy for me to live in. I love the trad sessions in pubs, driving the backroads instead of motorways to visit friends. I love the people and the chats you could just have with anyone, any time of day, anywhere they happened. I love how connected everyone is, the "do you know this lad" "oh ya hes my cousin" "Mad I was in school with him". I love the pride people to be from here. I love chatting to tourists, helping them out, and hearing the "this country is so beautiful and the people are so friendly."
I know it's not an easy time for everyone right now, the cost of living is high, the world feels like it's trying to tear itself apart, and frankly, we dont have many choices politically. That said, I dont think many other places are much better off. The cost of living is going up in many countries, and housing isn't an Irish only problem either. The right-wing lunatics are just as prolific in other Western countries, if not worse. I suppose I could go live in one of those countries everyone thinks has it sorted out like Austria, Germany or some Scandinavian country but they're honestly the most shit craic people and places Ive ever met and visited. I just like it in Ireland. It's ours to have for better and for worse, and I feel an intense pride in that.
Life and wanting to live here has a lot more to it than working and providing etc. What about outside of work, do you/wife/kids have friends to socialise or local activities to get involved in? That can be a big part to life here and make you want to stay
My friendships have kind of fizzled out tbf. Most of my friends are still in their drinking every weekend phase thats not me anymore.
But you're right, we don't have much outside our family unit so it's something to look into alright
I'm going to give you an answer in two parts. I was you a good few years ago, I'm in my early 50s now and including Ireland, I've lived in four different countries.
First off, your original question: how do you deal with it? Your wife won't move, you won't leave your kids, so you're stuck with us! Let's assume for the moment that that's the situation. You do sound as if you need to focus on making things better for yourself, given your situation. Housing is difficult at the moment, but it won't always be thus. I was over 40 when we bought our first house, which still feels like yesterday, and now we have made massive progress, despite having had a few lean years early on, including an entire year when I was unemployed. What I'm trying to say is that nothing lasts forever, and while it might seem unlikely now, that includes the current housing crisis.
You won't improve how you feel about it by complaining about it, focusing on the negatives, or reading Reddit (where you'd get the impression that the entire country was in a worse state than during the famine). Unless you're in a really awful situation, how you feel or react is more important than the situation itself. To that end, I would really urge you to focus on the things that are good about being in Ireland. That could be the sense of belonging, proximity to family, culture, landscape, or a myriad of other things. You will have to put in an effort to do this, like almost everything else that's worth having. Time flies, my internet friend. It's 17 years since the GFC/crash/recession, but it feels like yesterday to me. Start making connections, putting down roots and creating a network, and in the blink of an eye, they'll be 10 years old, healthy and expanding.
Secondly, let me tell you this: you can get shit sick of the sun. Nowhere is perfect. Absolutely nowhere. Australia is great, but I'd be pretty concerned about its long term liveability with climate change, certainly there are some parts that will experience serious challenges. Cost of housing is insane, and everywhere is a long way from everywhere else.
The UK is not too bad, but it's definitely fraying at the edges, and the current government has massively degraded public services. The weather is marginally better, but there's less craic and the houses are fecking tiny.
I'm definitely coming across as an old fart who thinks he's wise, and I apologise for that, but I do hope that you find something of value in there. Feel free to PM me if so, and you want to discuss further. Most of all, best of luck, and think about one positive thing about this place everyday.
Really appreciate this response Mick and it has really resonated with me. You are absolutely right. It's time for a change in mindset and time to get stuck into something that'll either occupy me or as you say build my network.
Thank you for this, your comment has really landed 🙌🙌
No worries man. I really did feel like you 10 or so years ago, and went as far as filling in visa applications for Australia and Canada. I'm glad I stuck it out. To be honest, I think I could have been in paradise and still felt unsettled. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, I'm very happy with my lot. I still have the occasional 'what if' moment, but that's purely based on professional/financial terms, which wouldn't make up for all the things I wouldn't have if I'd moved.
I think I'm stuck in the financial terms as well. What if we go and make a killing. Or I could stay here and progress and get more qualified which would equal the same thing.
That's exactly it. The value of having a network is massive, professionally AND personally. You're not starting from scratch here, which can make a huge difference if you decide to go out on your own at some stage. One more thing - never discount the value of free baby sitting if the grandparents, aunties or uncles are close by. In time to come, the two of you should be able to head off together for a long weekend in some cool spot in Europe, leaving the kids with family, and you can do the same for them.
I feel ya OP. I moved back to Ireland last January from France when our son was 10 months old. The move was primarily for a business partnership my brother had offered me. After a year working together however, it was obvious there was no partnership. So I quit.
Now I don't see the point in being here really. Sure it's nice to have the rest of the family around, and it's great to see all my old friends but the quality of life here just seems so shit to me compared to what I had. I thought I was prepared for the weather but I had genuinely forgotten how difficult it can be to plan activities when it's so changeable/ pissing down most of the time here. You end up spending so much time indoors because of it. The grey skies and the weeks of rain can really get my mood down too. Then there's the price of rent here, the longer working week, far less holidays, shit healthcare and doing any sort of weekend away in the country ends up costing a small fortune. It's such a rat race here with most people breaking their balls for the hopes of being able to get on the property ladder one day.
Jesus I'm having a right moan...I guess I just completely get where you're coming from.
Your old life in England is gone. Moving back there with young kids would be a completely different setup.
Are you sure you are not just struggling with parental life and the additional effort that requires?
Not at all pal. I love being a dad. My eldest is nearly 3 and playing around with her is the most fun I have all day. Obviously I'm back to being drained of life with a newborn but I expected that and I know what it entails.
Fair enough. I'm just not sure why your post is against Ireland in general. You talk about Australian opportunities but the housing market is much worse there in the popular cities. Housing may have been cheaper where you were in the UK but I'd say your salary was lower too. There are plenty of options outside Cork and Dublin in Ireland that might suit you both
A new family will drain all your cash and make you feel a bit trapped. Moving may help things but it may not. Either way you need to talk to your wife
Is there family around to help with child care? That’s a very important factor in any decision you make. The grass isn’t always greener. Australia has a housing crisis too. It may be a better more relaxed way of life but it’s not always what it’s cracked up to be either. As a father of 2 young kids (congrats on the new babba too !) it can be tough. A move across the world when it’s not what both of you want 100% will unfortunately put a strain on your relationship. There’s a strong pull for home and where your from wherever you are in the world or wherever your from. It’s human nature. It’s how we often define ourselves too. Only you know what’s right for you. But take it from someone who never lived abroad and now has 2 kids - you’ll have to both really want it for it to work. So like others have said. Have that conversation with your wife and see where it goes. And good luck with the new arrival.
Could you perhaps be going through some post natal paternal stress or whatever it’s called? It can perhaps amplify emotions and maybe making you feel more helpless than how it really is. Two babies and one a newborn is so beautiful but oh so tough on parents, such a hard time getting into routines etc. You may also be comparing your old life to the new one? Like the money you had back in England and that lifestyle you perhaps couldn’t even afford that now with two babies and needing to pay for childcare etc if moving away from family. So many of those things to consider now. What is it you don’t like most about living in Cork? I hope you are ok and don’t let this really get you down.
As someone from Cork who's lived in the uk for 22 years I'm unsure I'd ever be able to afford to move back home a 3 bed semi in my area (not a big city but 10 mins by train to one of the big cities) is only about £130,000.
In the long term the NHS and free schooling has probably saved me thousands.Healthcare is free for under 18s. And no cost to see a Gp for anyone a one off prescription charge is £9something a trip to a&e is free a stay in hospital is free.
School is literally free my mam couldn't believe it I didn't have to buy books or copies or anything when my kids started school all I had to buy was uniforms and shoes not even a pencil case or a sack.
While I'm Irish and I'll always be Irish I couldn't afford to be Irish anymore. My husband has looked at simular jobs in the company he is quite high up in and the pay doesn't match the cost to live in Ireland. I actually work in the nhs and I wouldn't survive on HSE pay (my mam done the same job)
How do you feel about coming up north? It's both the UK and Ireland (I cbf debating this so if you disagree, simply move on) so you get the UK pay systems and prices, but are just a drive to family.
I'm from County Armagh, it's one of the cheapest places in the country to live and its not too shite of a drive to go anywhere
Yea, for your own safety fella, I’d park talking about this for a while, at least 6 months to a year. Wifey has just had a baby and it’s gonna be rough for a while. The second is rough.
I know it will work out in the end.
I know it’s cliché but the grass really isn’t always greener. That’s not the undermine the very real issues we have in Ireland, but to highlight the issues in Australia for example.
At the end of the day if you moved to Australia tomorrow you’d still have a 3 year old and newborn, but you’d have no family or friends around you for support. You’d be starting from scratch - looking for crèches, doctors, playgroups etc. There’s a housing crisis there too though I don’t know enough about it to fairly comment on it.
I think looking at the positives of Ireland and making the most of it is the best thing to do for now.
I lived abroad and may do so again one day, and whilst it highlighted how crap certain things are in this country (like public transport), it also showed me the positive sides of Ireland - most notably the warmth and friendliness of Irish people.
Have a think about what you like about ireland and lean into those things. Eg if you enjoy our nature, maybe plan some day trips.
I also think focusing on getting more supports in place for yourself and your wife as you adjust to having two little ones would be good. The family resource centre are great. Look into parent and baby groups. What are your own hobbies and could you spend more time on these?
Can I PM you? I have some personal experience that feels too specific to share publicly on reddit!
If not no worries. The take away is basically this: Growing up with unhappy parents can be poison to a family. I recommend couples therapy if yourself and your wife can't see eye-to-eye, before resentment grows. Also local baby / toddler groups, men's sheds, etc. where you can meet people and feel part of a community. Regular days out with the family to beaches, free museums, parks, libraries, etc. are all low-cost ways to build memories and feel connected to your environment.
I dont think anyone can consider this type of move without their partner's support. You should try to discuss with her but without her agreement it's impossible IMO.
I'm a Brit and the one thing that I miss is the NHS.
Sure it's not the best healthcare system in Europe and has a lot of room for improvement but I find it insane that in Ireland it's accepted that doctors can casually say that they're not taking on new patients? And the public are OK with it. It's impossible to find a doctor here and I still don't have one after living here for years.
Omg how much do British people complain about the NHS 😅😅 its way better then the Irish system. Majority of British have no idea what healthcare is like out of England. The NHS has a lot of flaws but it is far better then our system
Fully agree and I remind my parents this nearly every time I visit them. They complain that you have phone up to make an appointment.
Yeah, sadly, we don't know just how good it is.
Maybe try and find somewhere closer than Oz? If her family were a Ryanair flight from wherever ye were, that connection and availability would make the transition easier. I lived far away for years and never had a visitor but I've now been in Cyprus for two and my parents can pop over to see their granddaughter relatively easily. It has made a world of difference to how we settled, added to the fact it's easy enough for us to visit home too.
This is a genuine question but what do you find so much better in the U.K.? Apart from tax
I’m very much fed up with Ireland at the minute. Health care, housing and the general price of stuff really gets to me.
I’ve been debating on and off of moving elsewhere and was thinking of the U.K. as it’s close to Ireland if I were need to come home and the culture is relatively close to ours.
Like you said healthcare is much better. We found the standard of living so much better, we were making 600-700 weekly combined and were traveling 3-5 times a year with one of them trips being 7-10 days.
I'm not sure how the last year has been over there but at time a can of monster here was 1.90 and there I was getting them for 99p. Which is a silly comparison but a big difference. Our weekly shop at the time was 50-60 quid. When we can back here for more then a week we found ourselves already hitting just below 100 quid for the same food.
Towards the end my Mrs just couldn't cope with the loneliness of been away from family anymore especially with a newborn but it never phased me one bit
I'm in England married to an Irishman so spend a lot of time in both countries. We live in SE England Ireland is beautiful and more laid back but got to say despite what a lot of people on the internet say I find England much cheaper for day to day stuff, also (where we are) everything is on your doorstep especially when it comes to doing stuff with the kids and/or going out for the evening. work is easy to come by for the most part and the wages are pretty decent. Rent is expensive when we are but I know that varies by area. It's easy to make friends -- especially if you have children.
Schools can be hard to get into, secondary schools seem to have lots of bullying, there are people everywhere (hence the making friends) but cam also be a negative. Anti social behaviour can be an issue but we've been lucky and not had anything like that in our area.
I can't really comment on home ownership as we are lucky to have had our house for years now.
In Ireland - the houses (going by my in-laws) are bigger you get more for your money and not so tightly packed together, schooling is supposed to be better with smaller class sizes (though again I'm only going by discussions with my in laws and also probably depends on area), it's more laid back for children and probably a kinder place to grow up. One of my sister in laws moved away from her hometown up to near Dublin and has found it hard to make friends now she has young children. This seems to be a common theme from what I've heard
As for the pub life and 'craic' England is very multicultural (again our area) so sometimes the humour gets lost but if you find a good local you will find everything you need. Ireland is a good night out in most places I've been I've not lived there full time so can't say about finding a good local. Despite what I read on the internet about Brits Vs Irish my husband and I would agree that the sense of honour is the same, us English may be more harshly sarcastic but that's debatable 🤷🏻♀️ and the majority of people love the Irish - my husband is adored even with his now hybrid accent after being her so long.
I hope this comes across as unbiased as I intended. My husband wants to move back to Ireland so I've been thinking about stuff like this a lot.
Also, the NHS. We moan about it and wait times can be a nuisance especially in areas where the GP's are massively oversubscribed same with A&E but for serious illnesses it's amazing. No costs involved anywhere. Not sure how that compares with Ireland.
I completely understand OP, my husband and I are in similar predicaments. This country (Ireland), seems to just bleed us dry. We work two very good jobs and yes we can have luxuries often, the basic day to day/week to week/month to month living after paying bills and a mortgage doesn’t seem to compare to what you would ‘think’, with the jobs we have. Australia seems the better option at the moment albeit it far, weather plays a massive difference in overall health.
Give your wife time, having children is a massive life changing thing, being familiar with surroundings is half the batte- for now. Slowly overtime with crèche fees, excess expenditure she may see the forest from the trees. Ireland is great when the weather is good but the people make it that way, not the government. In time she may well change her mind, for now just support and maybe bring it up from time to time until a proper discussion can happen. Best of luck🙌🏻
But you see England is fill of English people...
Nah I totally feel you, looking to move to Spain myself for the same reason but in fairness lots of English there too
Not the biggest fan of a lot of them in fairness. Especially after watching the new documentary about Wembley st the euro final.
However, I met some amazing English people and have friends for life
We’re in a similar position to you except my hubby is longing to move home to ireland(we live in nz). We’ve a toddler and a babe on the way with no family support and as hard as it is without that support(very very hard) the reality for us is that we are so much better off financially. Able to save, don’t have to commute 2hours one way to Dublin to work and our quality of life is excellent because of our jobs. The way we’re approaching our difference is chunks of time. Eg I’m willing to look at moving back to Ireland after we’ve finalised our nz residency and we’ve done a couple more holidays to Ireland (I’m English so haven’t been to Ireland much) which we could expect to do in X amount of years. Living in an area is only permanent if you make it so. Throw some options on the table. How about we move for 3 years? Why don’t we look at doing 12 months. And so on.
But settle in for now, newborn to 1, tough! See you there in a few months 😬
I know it’s cliché but the grass really isn’t always greener. That’s not the undermine the very real issues we have in Ireland, but to highlight the issues in Australia for example.
At the end of the day if you moved to Australia tomorrow you’d still have a 3 year old and newborn, but you’d have no family or friends around you for support. You’d be starting from scratch - looking for crèches, doctors, playgroups etc. There’s a housing crisis there too though I don’t know enough about it to fairly comment on it.
I think looking at the positives of Ireland and making the most of it is the best thing to do for now.
I lived abroad and may do so again one day, and whilst it highlighted how crap certain things are in this country (like public transport), it also showed me the positive sides of Ireland - most notably the warmth and friendliness of Irish people.
Have a think about what you like about ireland and lean into those things. Eg if you enjoy our nature, maybe plan some day trips.
I also think focusing on getting more supports in place for yourself and your wife as you adjust to having two little ones would be good. The family resource centre are great. Look into parent and baby groups. What are your own hobbies and could you spend more time on these?
From my own experience of living in Ireland and living abroad (I’m 20 been abroad for a year). It seems like it might benefit the kids specifically to move abroad. In Ireland any idealization of big dreams is shut down and told to get realistic. In general in Ireland it just seems nowadays everyone just wants to see everyone else doing worse than themselves. As well as the fact our country is literally just seen as a drinking country and promotes the idea of drinking as cool. From my experience the only benefit being from/ living in Ireland gives you abroad is that you speak good english. The rest of life seems to be better abroad
Your wife has been very unfair to you. Sorry if that seems harsh, but your post is full of red flags.
'Mrs decided it was time to go home'.
She couldn't wait another 18 months for you to finish your apprenticeship? It was so bad over there that you commuting weekly to another bloody country for work while you both have a newborn was preferable?
Advice? Plod away and save anything you can for a deposit. Use the help to buy and first home scheme to get a property. Slog it out for 30+ years then. With two young kids and a wife that won't budge there is not much else you can do?
Very fair response tbh. But to add some context, my wife suffers from depression and has battled it for many years. She spent a lot of time fighting through it in England and stayed there for a long time with me. Once our daughter came she couldn't do it anymore and we made the decision together for her health and mental health it would be better for her to go home. But I was to close to qualifying to leave the apprenticeship
This seems to be an important missing piece of information that changes everything. From what you told us, it seems likely that your wife would suffer from depression again if she’d have to leave Ireland.
Your wife’s mental health should have priority as her poor health would also impact your little ones big time. She stuck it out with you in England for so long even though it was bad for her mental health. Now you want to put her into the same situation again?
You asked for advice on how to deal with this situation. Here is mine: Since your wife has already said she won’t move and you said that you would not leave your children, there is only one answer: You stay in Ireland and make the best of it - for everyone involved.
I think everyone thinks myself and my wife are at complete loggerheads. I would never put my wife through the battle she had. She said she doesn't want to move and I understand that. My post asked for advice on how I deal with living somewhere I don't want to. Nothing to do with forcing her to move.
Appreciate the response another great perspective
Very fair response tbh. But to add some context, my wife suffers from depression and has battled it for many years. She spent a lot of time fighting through it in England and stayed there for a long time with me. Once our daughter came she couldn't do it anymore and we made the decision together for her health and mental health it would be better for her to go home. But I was to close to qualifying to leave the apprenticeship so we made the decision for me to stay instead of coming back to absolutely nothing
What about the north? Wages are worse but housing and cost of living is less, you can commute around the island easily enough to still keep in touch with family. That being said if she wants to be close to her family then I don’t think any convincing would change that, I’ve seen relationships break down over disagreements on where to live people can feel strongly about it.
Personally i recommend living in the north, i'm from england and moved over here and that (as well as getting sober) are the best things i ever done. Which isn't to say it's perfect, there's a lot about this place that's definitely on the weird side, but you do get used to it and i love it. Wages are lower but it's much cheaper to live and the people are far nicer here than anywhere else i've lived (and the Irish are all absolute rides, especially northerners)
Should see us southerners👀😂 fairplay for the move and getting sober with it. Two big challenges at once and it sounds like you smashed it. Thanks for the advice.
Must be the north. I found the humour in the England DARK. but very tame here 😂tbh I'm all for darkness so I also miss that 😂your always allowed to laugh 😂😂
Oh i always found the english nowhere near as humorous as the Irish - but i'm from the south east which is full of dour humourless cunts, they're far more fun up north. I suspect partly because there's more Irish there lol. Also you're right about southerners being rides too, i went out with a great girl from Cork for a few years while i still lived in england (she was hilarious) but it was only when i moved to NI i realised i didn't only fancy girls lol
Honestly the slaggings she gave me, i'm amazed i survived. But i'm told it's how the Irish show affection and also it was quite the education, like i almost always eat soup at lunchtime and she'd walk past me at work (that's where we met) and say "i see yer man's taking the soup" ... so now i know what that means lol
Ah it's to do with protestant bible societies setting up soup kitchens during the famine but people had to convert to protestantism to get it - you see what i mean about not being sure if i'm allowed to laugh?!
I suppose it depends on what job you do/where the work is and whether you enjoy going out and partying or if you're a quiet sort of person who prefers to live out of town.
After moving back from Canada, I went to college and studied Health and Safety. I'd much rather have stayed on the tools, but thinking of the future, I didn't want to put myself through digging and lifting heavy things for the rest of my life.
After I got qualified, I started my own Ltd company and landed a nice contract with a great rate. A good accountant and financial advisor are worth their weight in gold, as they were able to guide me with how I should best deal with my finances. Without them, I wouldn't be able to afford to live in this country the way it currently is.
Similarly to yourself, we have a newborn, so we are kind of stuck for the next while, but every day, I wonder if it would be better elsewhere as it seems very backwards here after you return from abroad.
Yeah I don't think a lot of people get it when they haven't spent so much time away from here. Like yourself, my qualification would go a long way in a different country (not saying it won't here) but from what I've seen of Ireland and England, the opportunities alone In England for me would be far greater then here. But never the less, head down and time to crack on for now
My two cents here...
My wife and I moved to Ireland during COVID due to my job. Moving to another country is always an adventure, for me it was easier as I was busier at the beginning but she wasn't as happy, had troubles making new friends because everyone was moving constantly and finding a good job was time-consuming and exhausting... She supported me on my decision to move for a better opportunity and growth in the company but she had to sacrifice a lot, family, friends, social life, better weather.
Now we are way better, we have settled down and now she has found a job where she is growing constantly, found friends and sport groups, but that took a while.
In summary, it is worthwhile to move to a new country when the salary is secured, but to be fair the salary is not important, in the end is the take-home money that should impact more in the decision. If you are able to save in Ireland only 3-5% of your total revenue then it makes sense to move as it will be a slow growth for the family, but if you are able to save 20-30% In Australia (or elsewhere) definitely builds you a strong case to move to a new place.
Just consider and keep in mind, that sometimes we make decisions thinking that the others will happily follow us and adapt as fast as us but we need to consider and appreciate that more often than not, they will have to sacrifice something important for them as well.
Are you certain it's the location that's the issue? I remember my 2nd kid and the lack of free time for anything outside of work and crying kids / sleepless nights doing my head in. It's a tough time for guys as well as girls but gets better when the 2nd one gets a bit older. Hang in the buddy
Unfortunately, it sounds like your best path forward is trying to make peace with staying in Ireland and finding ways to make it as enjoyable as possible for yourself. If there is any hope for you to move somewhere else, the time to do it as before your oldest starts junior infants but given that she is 3 and your wife gave birth to another baby, a move now seems unlikely.
Fantastic tbf pal. The job I had wasn't great. LOTS of time alone and it drove me crazy but other then that lots of support, lots of holidays, good OT rates
We’re in a similar position to you except my hubby is longing to move home to ireland(we live in nz). We’ve a toddler and a babe on the way with no family support and as hard as it is without that support(very very hard) the reality for us is that we are so much better off financially. Able to save, don’t have to commute 2hours one way to Dublin to work and our quality of life is excellent because of our jobs. The way we’re approaching our difference is chunks of time. Eg I’m willing to look at moving back to Ireland after we’ve finalised our nz residency and we’ve done a couple more holidays to Ireland (I’m English so haven’t been to Ireland much) which we could expect to do in X amount of years. Living in an area is only permanent if you make it so. Throw some options on the table. How about we move for 3 years? Why don’t we look at doing 12 months. And so on.
But settle in for now, newborn to 1, tough! See you there in a few months lol
By the time your toddler is around 5 you basically can't keep moving around. Have to have roots put down somewhere because of school, social development etc.
You are suffering from a lot of life changes at the same time and some reverse culture shock [https://2009-2017.state.gov/m/fsi/tc/c56075.htm](https://2009-2017.state.gov/m/fsi/tc/c56075.htm)
Give yourselves time
I find it incredibly that you think you’ve more chance of owning a house in the UK than Ireland. There’s 60 odd million people in England but less then 5m in Ireland, there’s more opportunities here believe it or not
Fella I worked with in the UK started saving this time last year and has just bought a fully renovated three bed house for under 250k pounds. Move in end of this week.
Ok so assume he had saved 50k in a year or already had some money for the deposit. 250k wouldn't get you anywhere near a major commercial area in UK
Know a guy brought in Laios for 200k last summer, 1hr from Dublin. You wont get 3 bed 1hr from London no chance! I don't think its about houses being less or more expensive, all western countries are the same in terms of house price average earning potential, they all have a stage managed housing crisis and falling living standards for working/middle classes.
I think this boils down to the fact you love the UK, and feel standard life was is much better, you said you hate living in this country. Yet people from the UK, Germany, America move to Ireland because they love it. People leave Australia to live in UK and dread the day that their visa expires.
The lads I know who went to Oz in 08 are now trying to return to Ireland and find it hard having to start again late 40s now, the savings don't last. Gamblers only tell you when they are up they don't share the lows, so I try not to look over the garden fence too much. Australia is very far away only worth it if you aint returning, if anyone back home gets sick it's gonna cost you 1000s to get back each time... England might be the best compromise for your family tho
I am also just plodding at the moment,biding my time to leave again after 11 years away...the UK might be a step up from Ireland, Australia a bigger step up and then if you can earn a decent salary somewhere in SE Asia the biggest step up ,I think.
Leave. There's a housing crisis here. People who actually want to be here could take the house you're in. Sounds like you have a lot going for you but if you aren't happy, as you clearly seem not to be, then leave.
I think you will go mad if you stay. You sound like you already know it. Tell her you have decided it is time to move on and follow your dreams and your prospects in a modern large industry where the rewards and opportunities are better. If she loves you she will come, if she sees only financial support in you, she will whinge and stay, in which case you know you made the right choice. Its your life, its short, you only get one, so you ought to make the most of it. You will not look back.
This is a really unfair comment - the issue is OP and wife want different things and must discuss this and compromise. The solution is not OP f*kn off whether his wife likes it or not.
I think it's something to chat through with your wife rather than a general question. Maybe ask her to list the things she likes about living here, and you list the things you like(d) about living elsewhere. You've got two young kids, life is tough anywhere because kids are demanding.
Wicked. Thanks
But - I’d wait to chat about it more with your wife. The 8 weeks or so after having a newborn are TOUGH, and then it gradually gets easier. Now is the time to support your family and focus on getting through this time. Not the time to be taking about moving. You might be struggling with the newborn/toddler phase and using imagining moving as an escape. Fair enough! But don’t burden your wife with that right now. And recognize that it might be a bit of an escapist fantasy for you as well.
> chat through with your wife YES !!! You need common / shared financial goals and responsibilities. Most marriages fall apart because of finances, so.. getting on the same page (which isn't blank), and having some plan that you can periodically evolve over time, and measure your own situation against will remove some of the stress and the unhappiness. You can start with Ramit Sethi's CSP. Also write down some long term goals, e.g. figure out with your wife, do you two want to own a house, when? Do you want that more or less than e.g. 1 airplane holiday per year, or e.g. a slightly older/newer car. What would it take from you in Ireland, what would it take in UK. Do you want to retire on more than 1000 eur per month (in today's money) - how? btw, my own personal estimates, are that rent in Ireland will be rising on average 5-10% year on year in nominal terms, for the foreseeable 10 years. And that over that time your wage will drop in real terms 3%-6% in real terms unless you make progress in your job - same thing with any kind of government support for 90%+ of things out there. On the other hand, as an electrician, you can see how sucky and backwards and slow government thinking is in Ireland re renewables Will it get better? if yes, you're in the right line of work.
Lots of people here encouraging you to talk this through with you wife and that’s definitely the right move — but if I were you I’d wait a few months until her body and mind have had a chance to settle down a bit after having a baby. She’s probably exhausted and sore and emotionally spent, and I can’t imagine a conversation about moving away from her family/friends/support network would go well right now!
Is your wife dead set against it right now or ever? With two young kids she probably needs some support from family and friends and it might just be what she needs right now. Moving babies anywhere sounds like a nightmare and could be very isolating for her. Ye are probably both wrecked just from the day to day living with kids that small. I feel for you OP cos I've always felt like if my parents weren't around I'd be gone like a shot. The country as it is right now only works well for either single couples with no kids on savage wages or people who were born into wealth. Other than that it's a tough slog.
Appreciate that response pal. I'm not sure, it's definitely a right now situation like you said with the young kids. But then again there'll always be something. Kids adapt so quickly so in my eyes it's the best time to go. But your right, she does need family and friends to. Yeah your right. It's a tough life here. Tbf I thought when I moved to England I'd be back within 6 months over missing my parents but I really surprised myself with how easy I found it. Obviously a 40 minute flight is very different to aus 😂😂
Other aspects are the community side, and I mean friends and family life events that are much easier to attend. Night out? Grandparents happy to babysit 9 times out of 10. Obviously you get used to it over in the UK missing them or travelling over for just the bigger ones, but something to think about. Put together a long term plan for both countries and see how quickly you could save to own a house as part of the discussion.
Why not come up to Northern Ireland? It would be a good mid way for what you are looking for. I know of many southerners who have come up and are shocked at how much more affordable things are.
As you say, there will always be something. However as some one with a 2 year old and a 6 month year old living in a foreign country with no family other my my wife. I'm going to have to strongly disagree that now is the best time to go. I assume you wife is on maternity leave? How long till she's back to work (if she works)? If you leave now, you'll be leaving her at home with the kids in a new country with no family or friends. And what does her work contract say? If she doesn't go back to work for a minimum period after maternity leave does she owe them money? Schools start at the end of January in Australia. I'd at least get Christmas over you before going.
Coming at this from the point of the Wife Who Wants to Stay .... My husband would love for us to move away, his job is manual, he thinks there are apparently loooads of opportunities in Oz, the weather is better etc. BUT - I am very close to my family, and my community here - involved in kids sports etc. I wouldn't leave because I value family & local human connections over money and weather. He is useless to organise a social life, and just wants us to up sticks and move, and have me make all the effort for making friends in the area, ensuring the kids make friends, and that we all have a social life. Not going to happen. And the things that are hard here - wrangling kids, sorting childcare, cost-of-living stuff - won't neccessarily be fixed by moving elsewhere where there's more sun
I would be more hands on with the kids and their sports and friends and school. I have my daughter in football since she was 2 and go with her every week and this will soon extend to gymnastics and dancing. Youre right, everything that's hard here will be hard there. But on the other hand, we only get one life and one chance at trying it. It can be a one year thing or a two year thing. But I get your point of view and I appreciate it thanks
Yeah fair play for really thinking it through .... you'll have to have a serious discussion with your wife ... for me the idea of uprooting my kids who are happy, settled and thriving, upsets me viscerally, I couldn't do it. And the idea of having no family support at all gives me the shivers ....its not neccessarily very logical at all!!
Sounds like a conversation to have with your wife. You said she is dead set against it and there is 'no way you are leaving your two kids'. Would you leave if it was 'just' your wife? When you say 'opportunities' I assume don't mean opportunities to share your children's lives with extended family - but financial opportunities? There is nothing wrong about it either way, but you (money) and your wife (extended family) seem to have different ideas of what is most important in life. That's when it starts and ends for you - with your wife.
That's a fantastic response and something I never considered. Thank you for that
Grass always greener. House prices in Ireland are more in line with wages than in the UK or Oz, and a lot of Irish people come home to have their families because the social fabric is much stronger. Is "the country" really getting to you, or is the "30s married with kids and settled" lifestyle getting to you.
I was always settled tbf. Had my going out days in my early 20s and after that I never really done much apart from the gym I was renting a 3 bedroom house in the UK for 700im currently paying 1300 euro for the same size house
Renting long term isn't really viable in either country though. That's not going to be the benchmark lifestyle for a high earner with a family.
No it's not pal but like i said, I doubt we'll ever have enough saved for a mortgage with the price of rent here. I'd be making similar money but in sterling in the UK. So savings are a bit easier
There's no borrowing reg keeping prices in high demand areas in check like in Ireland. In Cork or Dublin, with world class employers in reach, a respectable family 3 bed can still be had for 3.5 times an average working couple's salary. To be within 3KM of decent employment in England or Australia for an affordable price, forget about it.
Sometimes the grass is genuinely greener though
Genuinely not convinced that it is. I'm give or take 15 years from the beginning of the tide of my friends and acquaintances emigrating. Vancouver, London, Brisbane, etc, the typical places to go. Without exception, all the emigrants are still more or less where they were when they left - housesharing or renting, working but with nothing to really show for it. Nearly everyone who stayed to weather out the recession has their own house now in their 30s. The difference is striking in their selves too. It's like the emigrant lot are still 19, and situationally, they kind of are.
Tbf that's just your mates who may or may not be total wasters even with a euromillions win. So anecdotally doesn't affect how green the grass can be. Also staying in Ireland and putting yourself in 100k's debt isn't anything to be too delighted about tbh. I also emigrated 3times. 2008, 20113 and 2021. I only came back in 2018 for family reasons but can honestly tell you now I will never return home for longer than a holiday. The grass is truly greener where I am now. A 200k job couldn't get me to return
Do you really want your kids to have English accents? And you from Cork like.
Trying to give my children a better life with more opportunities and freedom would be my goal. Their accents would be very low on my priority list of moving and would also be a pretty pathetic excuse not to move somewhere for a better life
Just imagine them saying “sumfink” instead of‘something’ and you’ll soon change your tune 😂
😂😂😂 tbf my toddler says nuffin and I've absolutely no idea where she got it from 😂😂 she moved from England when she was 9 months 😂😂
Just from the perspective of someone who moved to Ireland as a teenager. My family moved here around 2007 when things were great, loads of jobs going around, a lot better quality of life than in our home country. I was older than your kids so maybe they wouldn't have the same issues (I was 14 when I came to Ireland) but it was tough trying to settle here with new culture (especially since English is not my first language). Anyway, my point is - my parents brought me and my brother here convinced we will have better opportunities in life. After all the hard work and hardships we all had, here we are, I am living in a country you yourself said you hate living in. I like living here and it's sort of my home now but it's sad to think I lost out on my own culture and experiences to end up at this point. This is just to give you another perspective, but hey, from your post I think you have your mind made up. I don't really understand what you are looking for by writing this post, maybe you are just trying to affirm your beliefs?
Brilliant point of view to receive. Thank you for your input. Tbh, I wasn't sure what is as looking for. But I have received so many helpful comments and now feel much better than I did this morning
Also just to add, things were pretty good here up until COVID, inflation, immigration, war in Ukraine etc. I know that in other countries the quality of life is still better, but things went really downhill recently which is also something to consider. Anyway best of luck and look at the bright side, wherever you end up!
Did you forget to bring your sense of humour back from the UK?
Actually think I did tbf
I think I missed your youngest is only 4 weeks old, I’d no sense of humour when mine were that age either.
Thought I had the life sucked out of me with a toddler. Boy was I wrong🤦😂
hahahaha too right :p
>Any advice on how to deal with it Suck it up West Brit boy, you asked for this.
😂😂😂 your not wrong
He didn't say West Cork
Maybe look north? Might not need to change jobs if commute would be feasible.
Actually very good point.
I’m stuck presently. I’ve been living in the UK the last 12 years but my heart is breaking to move back to Ireland. I miss my family more than anything. Can I ask what makes you unhappy about living in Ireland? I have fears that I’ll struggle with things like medical fees etc.
Want updates
I'm with your wife here. I'm the one who lives away from home. We moved from Scotland to Ireland when my eldest was 5 (now 14) and we've 2 other young kids. They're 5 and 7. We live near my in laws now, and that's grand like as theyre in their 80s and we care for them, but I miss my family like sin. Nothing would have me back living in Scotland, but if I could bottle uo my mam and bring her over here I absolutely would. There's not a hope I'd move away. My husband sometimes mentions the US as that's where he could make a fortune. But he'd be grand, he'd be off to work every day and not much would change for him except the country we lived in. Meanwhile, I'd be alone with the kids, in a foreign country, with no real means of meeting new people, no family support etc. You'd never have a date night again. Not until the kids are much older. There will be no breaks. There's no back up. When there's an emergency it's really scary not knowing who you can easily call. When a day is hard and you can't just ask your childhood friend or your sister round it makes it infinitely harder.
Edit: I thought this was a question about how do people deal with living in Ireland. I realise I havent given much advice but rather my own opinion on the question for myself. Do with it as you will. Short answer: I never had to 'deal' with living in Ireland. Long Answer: Im in the UK now for education, but it wasn't anything to do with living or working in Ireland. It was and is an absolute joy for me to live in. I love the trad sessions in pubs, driving the backroads instead of motorways to visit friends. I love the people and the chats you could just have with anyone, any time of day, anywhere they happened. I love how connected everyone is, the "do you know this lad" "oh ya hes my cousin" "Mad I was in school with him". I love the pride people to be from here. I love chatting to tourists, helping them out, and hearing the "this country is so beautiful and the people are so friendly." I know it's not an easy time for everyone right now, the cost of living is high, the world feels like it's trying to tear itself apart, and frankly, we dont have many choices politically. That said, I dont think many other places are much better off. The cost of living is going up in many countries, and housing isn't an Irish only problem either. The right-wing lunatics are just as prolific in other Western countries, if not worse. I suppose I could go live in one of those countries everyone thinks has it sorted out like Austria, Germany or some Scandinavian country but they're honestly the most shit craic people and places Ive ever met and visited. I just like it in Ireland. It's ours to have for better and for worse, and I feel an intense pride in that.
This is so romanticised. Good for you.
Life and wanting to live here has a lot more to it than working and providing etc. What about outside of work, do you/wife/kids have friends to socialise or local activities to get involved in? That can be a big part to life here and make you want to stay
My friendships have kind of fizzled out tbf. Most of my friends are still in their drinking every weekend phase thats not me anymore. But you're right, we don't have much outside our family unit so it's something to look into alright
I'm going to give you an answer in two parts. I was you a good few years ago, I'm in my early 50s now and including Ireland, I've lived in four different countries. First off, your original question: how do you deal with it? Your wife won't move, you won't leave your kids, so you're stuck with us! Let's assume for the moment that that's the situation. You do sound as if you need to focus on making things better for yourself, given your situation. Housing is difficult at the moment, but it won't always be thus. I was over 40 when we bought our first house, which still feels like yesterday, and now we have made massive progress, despite having had a few lean years early on, including an entire year when I was unemployed. What I'm trying to say is that nothing lasts forever, and while it might seem unlikely now, that includes the current housing crisis. You won't improve how you feel about it by complaining about it, focusing on the negatives, or reading Reddit (where you'd get the impression that the entire country was in a worse state than during the famine). Unless you're in a really awful situation, how you feel or react is more important than the situation itself. To that end, I would really urge you to focus on the things that are good about being in Ireland. That could be the sense of belonging, proximity to family, culture, landscape, or a myriad of other things. You will have to put in an effort to do this, like almost everything else that's worth having. Time flies, my internet friend. It's 17 years since the GFC/crash/recession, but it feels like yesterday to me. Start making connections, putting down roots and creating a network, and in the blink of an eye, they'll be 10 years old, healthy and expanding. Secondly, let me tell you this: you can get shit sick of the sun. Nowhere is perfect. Absolutely nowhere. Australia is great, but I'd be pretty concerned about its long term liveability with climate change, certainly there are some parts that will experience serious challenges. Cost of housing is insane, and everywhere is a long way from everywhere else. The UK is not too bad, but it's definitely fraying at the edges, and the current government has massively degraded public services. The weather is marginally better, but there's less craic and the houses are fecking tiny. I'm definitely coming across as an old fart who thinks he's wise, and I apologise for that, but I do hope that you find something of value in there. Feel free to PM me if so, and you want to discuss further. Most of all, best of luck, and think about one positive thing about this place everyday.
Really appreciate this response Mick and it has really resonated with me. You are absolutely right. It's time for a change in mindset and time to get stuck into something that'll either occupy me or as you say build my network. Thank you for this, your comment has really landed 🙌🙌
No worries man. I really did feel like you 10 or so years ago, and went as far as filling in visa applications for Australia and Canada. I'm glad I stuck it out. To be honest, I think I could have been in paradise and still felt unsettled. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, I'm very happy with my lot. I still have the occasional 'what if' moment, but that's purely based on professional/financial terms, which wouldn't make up for all the things I wouldn't have if I'd moved.
I think I'm stuck in the financial terms as well. What if we go and make a killing. Or I could stay here and progress and get more qualified which would equal the same thing.
That's exactly it. The value of having a network is massive, professionally AND personally. You're not starting from scratch here, which can make a huge difference if you decide to go out on your own at some stage. One more thing - never discount the value of free baby sitting if the grandparents, aunties or uncles are close by. In time to come, the two of you should be able to head off together for a long weekend in some cool spot in Europe, leaving the kids with family, and you can do the same for them.
I feel ya OP. I moved back to Ireland last January from France when our son was 10 months old. The move was primarily for a business partnership my brother had offered me. After a year working together however, it was obvious there was no partnership. So I quit. Now I don't see the point in being here really. Sure it's nice to have the rest of the family around, and it's great to see all my old friends but the quality of life here just seems so shit to me compared to what I had. I thought I was prepared for the weather but I had genuinely forgotten how difficult it can be to plan activities when it's so changeable/ pissing down most of the time here. You end up spending so much time indoors because of it. The grey skies and the weeks of rain can really get my mood down too. Then there's the price of rent here, the longer working week, far less holidays, shit healthcare and doing any sort of weekend away in the country ends up costing a small fortune. It's such a rat race here with most people breaking their balls for the hopes of being able to get on the property ladder one day. Jesus I'm having a right moan...I guess I just completely get where you're coming from.
How come you don't go back pal? It's nice to be understood. Especially about the family part
Your old life in England is gone. Moving back there with young kids would be a completely different setup. Are you sure you are not just struggling with parental life and the additional effort that requires?
Not at all pal. I love being a dad. My eldest is nearly 3 and playing around with her is the most fun I have all day. Obviously I'm back to being drained of life with a newborn but I expected that and I know what it entails.
Fair enough. I'm just not sure why your post is against Ireland in general. You talk about Australian opportunities but the housing market is much worse there in the popular cities. Housing may have been cheaper where you were in the UK but I'd say your salary was lower too. There are plenty of options outside Cork and Dublin in Ireland that might suit you both A new family will drain all your cash and make you feel a bit trapped. Moving may help things but it may not. Either way you need to talk to your wife
Is there family around to help with child care? That’s a very important factor in any decision you make. The grass isn’t always greener. Australia has a housing crisis too. It may be a better more relaxed way of life but it’s not always what it’s cracked up to be either. As a father of 2 young kids (congrats on the new babba too !) it can be tough. A move across the world when it’s not what both of you want 100% will unfortunately put a strain on your relationship. There’s a strong pull for home and where your from wherever you are in the world or wherever your from. It’s human nature. It’s how we often define ourselves too. Only you know what’s right for you. But take it from someone who never lived abroad and now has 2 kids - you’ll have to both really want it for it to work. So like others have said. Have that conversation with your wife and see where it goes. And good luck with the new arrival.
Could you perhaps be going through some post natal paternal stress or whatever it’s called? It can perhaps amplify emotions and maybe making you feel more helpless than how it really is. Two babies and one a newborn is so beautiful but oh so tough on parents, such a hard time getting into routines etc. You may also be comparing your old life to the new one? Like the money you had back in England and that lifestyle you perhaps couldn’t even afford that now with two babies and needing to pay for childcare etc if moving away from family. So many of those things to consider now. What is it you don’t like most about living in Cork? I hope you are ok and don’t let this really get you down.
As someone from Cork who's lived in the uk for 22 years I'm unsure I'd ever be able to afford to move back home a 3 bed semi in my area (not a big city but 10 mins by train to one of the big cities) is only about £130,000. In the long term the NHS and free schooling has probably saved me thousands.Healthcare is free for under 18s. And no cost to see a Gp for anyone a one off prescription charge is £9something a trip to a&e is free a stay in hospital is free. School is literally free my mam couldn't believe it I didn't have to buy books or copies or anything when my kids started school all I had to buy was uniforms and shoes not even a pencil case or a sack. While I'm Irish and I'll always be Irish I couldn't afford to be Irish anymore. My husband has looked at simular jobs in the company he is quite high up in and the pay doesn't match the cost to live in Ireland. I actually work in the nhs and I wouldn't survive on HSE pay (my mam done the same job)
Not a lot of people understand the price difference over there. It's much more then the higher tax bracket. You are right with everything you said.
How do you feel about coming up north? It's both the UK and Ireland (I cbf debating this so if you disagree, simply move on) so you get the UK pay systems and prices, but are just a drive to family. I'm from County Armagh, it's one of the cheapest places in the country to live and its not too shite of a drive to go anywhere
Yea, for your own safety fella, I’d park talking about this for a while, at least 6 months to a year. Wifey has just had a baby and it’s gonna be rough for a while. The second is rough. I know it will work out in the end.
I know it’s cliché but the grass really isn’t always greener. That’s not the undermine the very real issues we have in Ireland, but to highlight the issues in Australia for example. At the end of the day if you moved to Australia tomorrow you’d still have a 3 year old and newborn, but you’d have no family or friends around you for support. You’d be starting from scratch - looking for crèches, doctors, playgroups etc. There’s a housing crisis there too though I don’t know enough about it to fairly comment on it. I think looking at the positives of Ireland and making the most of it is the best thing to do for now. I lived abroad and may do so again one day, and whilst it highlighted how crap certain things are in this country (like public transport), it also showed me the positive sides of Ireland - most notably the warmth and friendliness of Irish people. Have a think about what you like about ireland and lean into those things. Eg if you enjoy our nature, maybe plan some day trips. I also think focusing on getting more supports in place for yourself and your wife as you adjust to having two little ones would be good. The family resource centre are great. Look into parent and baby groups. What are your own hobbies and could you spend more time on these?
Can I PM you? I have some personal experience that feels too specific to share publicly on reddit! If not no worries. The take away is basically this: Growing up with unhappy parents can be poison to a family. I recommend couples therapy if yourself and your wife can't see eye-to-eye, before resentment grows. Also local baby / toddler groups, men's sheds, etc. where you can meet people and feel part of a community. Regular days out with the family to beaches, free museums, parks, libraries, etc. are all low-cost ways to build memories and feel connected to your environment.
Wicked response. Yeah pm me pal
I dont think anyone can consider this type of move without their partner's support. You should try to discuss with her but without her agreement it's impossible IMO.
I'm a Brit and the one thing that I miss is the NHS. Sure it's not the best healthcare system in Europe and has a lot of room for improvement but I find it insane that in Ireland it's accepted that doctors can casually say that they're not taking on new patients? And the public are OK with it. It's impossible to find a doctor here and I still don't have one after living here for years.
Omg how much do British people complain about the NHS 😅😅 its way better then the Irish system. Majority of British have no idea what healthcare is like out of England. The NHS has a lot of flaws but it is far better then our system
Fully agree and I remind my parents this nearly every time I visit them. They complain that you have phone up to make an appointment. Yeah, sadly, we don't know just how good it is.
Maybe try and find somewhere closer than Oz? If her family were a Ryanair flight from wherever ye were, that connection and availability would make the transition easier. I lived far away for years and never had a visitor but I've now been in Cyprus for two and my parents can pop over to see their granddaughter relatively easily. It has made a world of difference to how we settled, added to the fact it's easy enough for us to visit home too.
That’s a great idea
This is a genuine question but what do you find so much better in the U.K.? Apart from tax I’m very much fed up with Ireland at the minute. Health care, housing and the general price of stuff really gets to me. I’ve been debating on and off of moving elsewhere and was thinking of the U.K. as it’s close to Ireland if I were need to come home and the culture is relatively close to ours.
Like you said healthcare is much better. We found the standard of living so much better, we were making 600-700 weekly combined and were traveling 3-5 times a year with one of them trips being 7-10 days. I'm not sure how the last year has been over there but at time a can of monster here was 1.90 and there I was getting them for 99p. Which is a silly comparison but a big difference. Our weekly shop at the time was 50-60 quid. When we can back here for more then a week we found ourselves already hitting just below 100 quid for the same food. Towards the end my Mrs just couldn't cope with the loneliness of been away from family anymore especially with a newborn but it never phased me one bit
I'm in England married to an Irishman so spend a lot of time in both countries. We live in SE England Ireland is beautiful and more laid back but got to say despite what a lot of people on the internet say I find England much cheaper for day to day stuff, also (where we are) everything is on your doorstep especially when it comes to doing stuff with the kids and/or going out for the evening. work is easy to come by for the most part and the wages are pretty decent. Rent is expensive when we are but I know that varies by area. It's easy to make friends -- especially if you have children. Schools can be hard to get into, secondary schools seem to have lots of bullying, there are people everywhere (hence the making friends) but cam also be a negative. Anti social behaviour can be an issue but we've been lucky and not had anything like that in our area. I can't really comment on home ownership as we are lucky to have had our house for years now. In Ireland - the houses (going by my in-laws) are bigger you get more for your money and not so tightly packed together, schooling is supposed to be better with smaller class sizes (though again I'm only going by discussions with my in laws and also probably depends on area), it's more laid back for children and probably a kinder place to grow up. One of my sister in laws moved away from her hometown up to near Dublin and has found it hard to make friends now she has young children. This seems to be a common theme from what I've heard As for the pub life and 'craic' England is very multicultural (again our area) so sometimes the humour gets lost but if you find a good local you will find everything you need. Ireland is a good night out in most places I've been I've not lived there full time so can't say about finding a good local. Despite what I read on the internet about Brits Vs Irish my husband and I would agree that the sense of honour is the same, us English may be more harshly sarcastic but that's debatable 🤷🏻♀️ and the majority of people love the Irish - my husband is adored even with his now hybrid accent after being her so long. I hope this comes across as unbiased as I intended. My husband wants to move back to Ireland so I've been thinking about stuff like this a lot. Also, the NHS. We moan about it and wait times can be a nuisance especially in areas where the GP's are massively oversubscribed same with A&E but for serious illnesses it's amazing. No costs involved anywhere. Not sure how that compares with Ireland.
There’s loads of good pharmaceutical plants that would pay loads for your skills in cork, it’s early days yet I think stay
There is. Unfortunately I've only qualified in the last year and a lot of them want 3-5 years post apprenticeship experience
You know what they’re so stuck for people at the moment I wouldn’t be afraid to throw your name in
I completely understand OP, my husband and I are in similar predicaments. This country (Ireland), seems to just bleed us dry. We work two very good jobs and yes we can have luxuries often, the basic day to day/week to week/month to month living after paying bills and a mortgage doesn’t seem to compare to what you would ‘think’, with the jobs we have. Australia seems the better option at the moment albeit it far, weather plays a massive difference in overall health. Give your wife time, having children is a massive life changing thing, being familiar with surroundings is half the batte- for now. Slowly overtime with crèche fees, excess expenditure she may see the forest from the trees. Ireland is great when the weather is good but the people make it that way, not the government. In time she may well change her mind, for now just support and maybe bring it up from time to time until a proper discussion can happen. Best of luck🙌🏻
But you see England is fill of English people... Nah I totally feel you, looking to move to Spain myself for the same reason but in fairness lots of English there too
Not the biggest fan of a lot of them in fairness. Especially after watching the new documentary about Wembley st the euro final. However, I met some amazing English people and have friends for life
Ah half my family live across in uk just a friendly dig is all
We’re in a similar position to you except my hubby is longing to move home to ireland(we live in nz). We’ve a toddler and a babe on the way with no family support and as hard as it is without that support(very very hard) the reality for us is that we are so much better off financially. Able to save, don’t have to commute 2hours one way to Dublin to work and our quality of life is excellent because of our jobs. The way we’re approaching our difference is chunks of time. Eg I’m willing to look at moving back to Ireland after we’ve finalised our nz residency and we’ve done a couple more holidays to Ireland (I’m English so haven’t been to Ireland much) which we could expect to do in X amount of years. Living in an area is only permanent if you make it so. Throw some options on the table. How about we move for 3 years? Why don’t we look at doing 12 months. And so on. But settle in for now, newborn to 1, tough! See you there in a few months 😬
I know it’s cliché but the grass really isn’t always greener. That’s not the undermine the very real issues we have in Ireland, but to highlight the issues in Australia for example. At the end of the day if you moved to Australia tomorrow you’d still have a 3 year old and newborn, but you’d have no family or friends around you for support. You’d be starting from scratch - looking for crèches, doctors, playgroups etc. There’s a housing crisis there too though I don’t know enough about it to fairly comment on it. I think looking at the positives of Ireland and making the most of it is the best thing to do for now. I lived abroad and may do so again one day, and whilst it highlighted how crap certain things are in this country (like public transport), it also showed me the positive sides of Ireland - most notably the warmth and friendliness of Irish people. Have a think about what you like about ireland and lean into those things. Eg if you enjoy our nature, maybe plan some day trips. I also think focusing on getting more supports in place for yourself and your wife as you adjust to having two little ones would be good. The family resource centre are great. Look into parent and baby groups. What are your own hobbies and could you spend more time on these?
From my own experience of living in Ireland and living abroad (I’m 20 been abroad for a year). It seems like it might benefit the kids specifically to move abroad. In Ireland any idealization of big dreams is shut down and told to get realistic. In general in Ireland it just seems nowadays everyone just wants to see everyone else doing worse than themselves. As well as the fact our country is literally just seen as a drinking country and promotes the idea of drinking as cool. From my experience the only benefit being from/ living in Ireland gives you abroad is that you speak good english. The rest of life seems to be better abroad
Exactly what I thought as well. Thanks pal
Your wife has been very unfair to you. Sorry if that seems harsh, but your post is full of red flags. 'Mrs decided it was time to go home'. She couldn't wait another 18 months for you to finish your apprenticeship? It was so bad over there that you commuting weekly to another bloody country for work while you both have a newborn was preferable? Advice? Plod away and save anything you can for a deposit. Use the help to buy and first home scheme to get a property. Slog it out for 30+ years then. With two young kids and a wife that won't budge there is not much else you can do?
Very fair response tbh. But to add some context, my wife suffers from depression and has battled it for many years. She spent a lot of time fighting through it in England and stayed there for a long time with me. Once our daughter came she couldn't do it anymore and we made the decision together for her health and mental health it would be better for her to go home. But I was to close to qualifying to leave the apprenticeship
This seems to be an important missing piece of information that changes everything. From what you told us, it seems likely that your wife would suffer from depression again if she’d have to leave Ireland. Your wife’s mental health should have priority as her poor health would also impact your little ones big time. She stuck it out with you in England for so long even though it was bad for her mental health. Now you want to put her into the same situation again? You asked for advice on how to deal with this situation. Here is mine: Since your wife has already said she won’t move and you said that you would not leave your children, there is only one answer: You stay in Ireland and make the best of it - for everyone involved.
I think everyone thinks myself and my wife are at complete loggerheads. I would never put my wife through the battle she had. She said she doesn't want to move and I understand that. My post asked for advice on how I deal with living somewhere I don't want to. Nothing to do with forcing her to move. Appreciate the response another great perspective
Very fair response tbh. But to add some context, my wife suffers from depression and has battled it for many years. She spent a lot of time fighting through it in England and stayed there for a long time with me. Once our daughter came she couldn't do it anymore and we made the decision together for her health and mental health it would be better for her to go home. But I was to close to qualifying to leave the apprenticeship so we made the decision for me to stay instead of coming back to absolutely nothing
What about the north? Wages are worse but housing and cost of living is less, you can commute around the island easily enough to still keep in touch with family. That being said if she wants to be close to her family then I don’t think any convincing would change that, I’ve seen relationships break down over disagreements on where to live people can feel strongly about it.
Personally i recommend living in the north, i'm from england and moved over here and that (as well as getting sober) are the best things i ever done. Which isn't to say it's perfect, there's a lot about this place that's definitely on the weird side, but you do get used to it and i love it. Wages are lower but it's much cheaper to live and the people are far nicer here than anywhere else i've lived (and the Irish are all absolute rides, especially northerners)
Should see us southerners👀😂 fairplay for the move and getting sober with it. Two big challenges at once and it sounds like you smashed it. Thanks for the advice.
Probably be less of a culture shock for you, some of the humour here is so dark i'm not even sure if i'm allowed to laugh 🤣
Must be the north. I found the humour in the England DARK. but very tame here 😂tbh I'm all for darkness so I also miss that 😂your always allowed to laugh 😂😂
Oh i always found the english nowhere near as humorous as the Irish - but i'm from the south east which is full of dour humourless cunts, they're far more fun up north. I suspect partly because there's more Irish there lol. Also you're right about southerners being rides too, i went out with a great girl from Cork for a few years while i still lived in england (she was hilarious) but it was only when i moved to NI i realised i didn't only fancy girls lol
Worked with a few lads my own age in England and they just had no filter 😂😂 can't beat a cork girl for laugh
Honestly the slaggings she gave me, i'm amazed i survived. But i'm told it's how the Irish show affection and also it was quite the education, like i almost always eat soup at lunchtime and she'd walk past me at work (that's where we met) and say "i see yer man's taking the soup" ... so now i know what that means lol
I don't even know what that means 😂😂😂😂but a slagging from a cork person will toughen you up 😂
Ah it's to do with protestant bible societies setting up soup kitchens during the famine but people had to convert to protestantism to get it - you see what i mean about not being sure if i'm allowed to laugh?!
You can definitely laugh at that 😂😂😂 it's all shits and giggles until someone giggles and shits👌😂
Where abouts up north do you recommend?
I suppose it depends on what job you do/where the work is and whether you enjoy going out and partying or if you're a quiet sort of person who prefers to live out of town.
After moving back from Canada, I went to college and studied Health and Safety. I'd much rather have stayed on the tools, but thinking of the future, I didn't want to put myself through digging and lifting heavy things for the rest of my life. After I got qualified, I started my own Ltd company and landed a nice contract with a great rate. A good accountant and financial advisor are worth their weight in gold, as they were able to guide me with how I should best deal with my finances. Without them, I wouldn't be able to afford to live in this country the way it currently is. Similarly to yourself, we have a newborn, so we are kind of stuck for the next while, but every day, I wonder if it would be better elsewhere as it seems very backwards here after you return from abroad.
Yeah I don't think a lot of people get it when they haven't spent so much time away from here. Like yourself, my qualification would go a long way in a different country (not saying it won't here) but from what I've seen of Ireland and England, the opportunities alone In England for me would be far greater then here. But never the less, head down and time to crack on for now
My two cents here... My wife and I moved to Ireland during COVID due to my job. Moving to another country is always an adventure, for me it was easier as I was busier at the beginning but she wasn't as happy, had troubles making new friends because everyone was moving constantly and finding a good job was time-consuming and exhausting... She supported me on my decision to move for a better opportunity and growth in the company but she had to sacrifice a lot, family, friends, social life, better weather. Now we are way better, we have settled down and now she has found a job where she is growing constantly, found friends and sport groups, but that took a while. In summary, it is worthwhile to move to a new country when the salary is secured, but to be fair the salary is not important, in the end is the take-home money that should impact more in the decision. If you are able to save in Ireland only 3-5% of your total revenue then it makes sense to move as it will be a slow growth for the family, but if you are able to save 20-30% In Australia (or elsewhere) definitely builds you a strong case to move to a new place. Just consider and keep in mind, that sometimes we make decisions thinking that the others will happily follow us and adapt as fast as us but we need to consider and appreciate that more often than not, they will have to sacrifice something important for them as well.
Are you certain it's the location that's the issue? I remember my 2nd kid and the lack of free time for anything outside of work and crying kids / sleepless nights doing my head in. It's a tough time for guys as well as girls but gets better when the 2nd one gets a bit older. Hang in the buddy
Unfortunately, it sounds like your best path forward is trying to make peace with staying in Ireland and finding ways to make it as enjoyable as possible for yourself. If there is any hope for you to move somewhere else, the time to do it as before your oldest starts junior infants but given that she is 3 and your wife gave birth to another baby, a move now seems unlikely.
What are irish rail like to work for?
Fantastic tbf pal. The job I had wasn't great. LOTS of time alone and it drove me crazy but other then that lots of support, lots of holidays, good OT rates
Hit and miss on some days
We’re in a similar position to you except my hubby is longing to move home to ireland(we live in nz). We’ve a toddler and a babe on the way with no family support and as hard as it is without that support(very very hard) the reality for us is that we are so much better off financially. Able to save, don’t have to commute 2hours one way to Dublin to work and our quality of life is excellent because of our jobs. The way we’re approaching our difference is chunks of time. Eg I’m willing to look at moving back to Ireland after we’ve finalised our nz residency and we’ve done a couple more holidays to Ireland (I’m English so haven’t been to Ireland much) which we could expect to do in X amount of years. Living in an area is only permanent if you make it so. Throw some options on the table. How about we move for 3 years? Why don’t we look at doing 12 months. And so on. But settle in for now, newborn to 1, tough! See you there in a few months lol
By the time your toddler is around 5 you basically can't keep moving around. Have to have roots put down somewhere because of school, social development etc.
You are suffering from a lot of life changes at the same time and some reverse culture shock [https://2009-2017.state.gov/m/fsi/tc/c56075.htm](https://2009-2017.state.gov/m/fsi/tc/c56075.htm) Give yourselves time
Really like this comment. Thanks for the link
I find it incredibly that you think you’ve more chance of owning a house in the UK than Ireland. There’s 60 odd million people in England but less then 5m in Ireland, there’s more opportunities here believe it or not
Fella I worked with in the UK started saving this time last year and has just bought a fully renovated three bed house for under 250k pounds. Move in end of this week.
Ok so assume he had saved 50k in a year or already had some money for the deposit. 250k wouldn't get you anywhere near a major commercial area in UK Know a guy brought in Laios for 200k last summer, 1hr from Dublin. You wont get 3 bed 1hr from London no chance! I don't think its about houses being less or more expensive, all western countries are the same in terms of house price average earning potential, they all have a stage managed housing crisis and falling living standards for working/middle classes. I think this boils down to the fact you love the UK, and feel standard life was is much better, you said you hate living in this country. Yet people from the UK, Germany, America move to Ireland because they love it. People leave Australia to live in UK and dread the day that their visa expires. The lads I know who went to Oz in 08 are now trying to return to Ireland and find it hard having to start again late 40s now, the savings don't last. Gamblers only tell you when they are up they don't share the lows, so I try not to look over the garden fence too much. Australia is very far away only worth it if you aint returning, if anyone back home gets sick it's gonna cost you 1000s to get back each time... England might be the best compromise for your family tho
I am also just plodding at the moment,biding my time to leave again after 11 years away...the UK might be a step up from Ireland, Australia a bigger step up and then if you can earn a decent salary somewhere in SE Asia the biggest step up ,I think.
Move to Australia. Get new wife
😂😂😂😂
Leave. There's a housing crisis here. People who actually want to be here could take the house you're in. Sounds like you have a lot going for you but if you aren't happy, as you clearly seem not to be, then leave.
I think you will go mad if you stay. You sound like you already know it. Tell her you have decided it is time to move on and follow your dreams and your prospects in a modern large industry where the rewards and opportunities are better. If she loves you she will come, if she sees only financial support in you, she will whinge and stay, in which case you know you made the right choice. Its your life, its short, you only get one, so you ought to make the most of it. You will not look back.
This is a really unfair comment - the issue is OP and wife want different things and must discuss this and compromise. The solution is not OP f*kn off whether his wife likes it or not.