People like you are what is wrong with Islamists. How do you expect the rest of the world to respect you when you don't respect basic freedom of thought and expression. Then you come and cry about European countries banning the most extreme manifestations of your religion. Look at yourself first.
True I'm being ignorant of the secular western way of governing a country but not how Islamic laws work.
If a person has in reality used some slandering words in respect of Nabi Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam, this brutal act although causes for apostasy and emission from the fold of Islam, according to Shari’a it becomes permissible to put him to death until he repents over his this mean act and makes Thowba/Isthighfar and again comes to the fold of Islam. But this ruling is tied with the time of committing the sin. (Fiqhul Islam Vol 2 p184) whereas after lapsing of time the authority of putting him to death will rest only in the hands of the Courts and none else. Therefore it is necessary for the three who were present at the place to take legal action against the culprit and it is incumbent upon the Courts have a complete investigation and convict the accused with stern punishment so as to become a lesson for others. (Fiqhul Islam Vol 2, p188)
Source https://islamqa.org/hanafi/jamia-binoria/233412/insulting-and-offensive-words-to-disgrace-our-prophet-muhammad-%ef%b7%ba/
What truth ? Some narrative of sahih al bukhari we dont even use in egypt we dont have this aisha pbuh married at 9 or 6 years old ,Our tradition says she married around 16 to 18 years old and i doubt that you even have any knowledge about islam
In egypt we treat each hadith as a separate case and many know it just by heart and we check for the narrators if one only one narrator gave before a weak hadith we disregard the authenticity , Hadith is the narration of the prophet muhammed pbuh not al bukhari , And we check and compare all versions and Sahih muslim , musnad abi hanifa , ib al sakan , Abi dawood , Imam malik , Ibn habaan and other and you compare and it shows you which is a weak narration and which is a strong one
So, you are just cherry picking then. Because bukhari is so sahih that it is the source of the 5 daily prayers. It is by far the most important source of hadith out there.
The five prayers hadith is from the sahih of abu dawood and the narrator who matter to me the most not al bukhari nor abi dawood nor ahmad and the narrator is the companion Ibadah ibn al samet
And abu dawood cites bukhari for that.
Cherrpicking babies like you are not merely annoying, you are simply disgusting in your dishonesty. You aren't worth anybodies time.
You tradition isn't a scientific source but chronology is a realible source as I said above Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again and Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam therefore chronologically she was a child when she married. It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology.
Calculating the age of Aisha pbuh in relation to the age of her sister (Asmaa bint Abi Bakr - Dhat al-Nitaqain): All the aforementioned historical sources say that (Asmaa) was (10) years older than (Aisha), as the same sources narrate without a single difference between them, (Asmaa) was born (27) years before the migration to Medina, which means that her age at the beginning of the prophetic mission in the year (610 AD) was (14) years, by subtracting from her age before the migration (13) years, which are the years of the prophetic call in Mecca, because (27-13 = 14 years), and as all sources stated without disagreement that she is older than (Aisha) by (10) years, then it is confirmed that the age of (Aisha) was (4) years at the beginning of the prophetic mission in Mecca, meaning that she was born before The revelation begins with (4) full years, in the year (606 AD), and this results in a simple calculation that when the Messenger married her in Mecca in the tenth year from the beginning of the prophetic mission, she was (14) years old, because (4 + 10 = 14 years), or In other words, Aisha was born in the year 606 AD and married the Prophet (620 AD) when she was 14 years old. **As mentioned, he consummated his marriage with her - consummated his marriage with her - after 3 years and a few months. That is, at the end of the first year of the Hijra and the beginning of The second, in the year 624 AD, makes her age at that time (14 + 3 + 1 = 18 full years), which is the real age at which the Holy Prophet married (Aisha).**
2 - Calculating the age of (Aisha) regarding the death of her sister (Asmaa - Dhat Al-Nitaqain): Previous historical sources confirm without dispute that (Asmaa) died after a famous, dated and proven incident, which was the killing of her son (Abdullah bin Al-Zubayr) at the hands of the tyrant (Al-Hajjaj). The famous one, in the year (73 AH), and she was (100) years old. If we subtract the age of (Asmaa) from the year of her death (73 AH), when she was (100) years old, then (100-73 = 27 years) is her age. At the time of the Prophet’s migration, this is completely consistent with her age mentioned in historical sources. **If we subtract 10 years from her age - which are the years in which her sister (Aisha) grows up - the age of (Aisha) becomes (27-10 = 17 years), which is the age of (Aisha). ) At the time of the Hijra, even if the Prophet consummated the marriage with her at the end of the first year, her age at that time would be (17 + 1 = 18 years), which confirms the correct calculation of the age of the lady (Aisha) upon marriage to the Prophet**, and what also supports this is that (Al-Tabari) He asserts with certainty in his book (The History of Nations) that all of Abu Bakr’s children were born in pre-Islamic times, and this is consistent with the correct time line, and reveals the weakness of Al-Bukhari’s narration, because (Aisha) was actually born in the fourth year before the start of the prophetic mission.
All of Abu Bakr’s children can't be born in pre-Islamic times because he married with his second wife after islam which is a fact because his first wife didn't want to be muslim so Aisha was born after islam. It seems like you are biased and just repeating what you want to believe so there is no point for further discussion.
Edit: Adamos_Amet blocked me so I can't reply but about what he said contradicts with chronology. Aisha being born before islam isn't possible while he divorced from his first wife after beginning of islam and his wife refusing islam and then them divorcing are more than enough to see the reason but that doesn't even matter because in the end Aisha didn't born from his first marriage so she was born after islam and obviously marrying and getting pregnant and giving birth take times too.
Abu Bakr was married to several women during his lifetime, and two of his wives are well-documented: Qutaylah bint Abd-al-Uzza and Umm Ruman. Qutaylah, Abu Bakr's first wife, did not accept Islam, and they were separated before the migration to Medina, but there is no solid evidence that suggests the reason for their separation was her refusal to convert to Islam.
Aisha was born from his marriage to Umm Ruman, not as a result of a second marriage following a religiously motivated divorce. Aisha was born well before the proclamation of Islam, and both of her parents, Abu Bakr and Umm Ruman, later became Muslims.
Chronologically, she was engaged to a Non Muslim — Jubayr ibn Mut'im. The family of Jubayr ibn Mut'im did not convert to Islam, leading to the dissolution of the engagement.
Lmao what? HadithS don't change from country to country, and the hadith mention the age leaving no room for speculation. Furthermore this was agreed upon by everyone before the modern era
Criticism of the Hadith narration :
I will focus here on explaining the reasons for the chain of transmission in Bukhari’s narration only:
The hadith in which the age of the Mother of the Believers was mentioned came in five ways:
Farwa bin Abi Al-Mughraa told me: Ali bin Mushar told us, on the authority of Hisham, on the authority of his father, on the authority of Aisha. Ubaid bin Ismail told me: Abu Osama told us, on the authority of Hisham, on the authority of his father. Mu’alla bin Asad narrated to us: Wahib narrated to us, on the authority of Hisham bin Urwa, on the authority of Aisha. Muhammad bin Yusuf narrated to us: Sufyan narrated to us, on the authority of Hisham, on the authority of his father, on the authority of Aisha. Qubaisa bin Uqba narrated to us: Sufyan narrated to us, on the authority of Hisham bin Urwa, on the authority of Urwa.
As we see, all the narrations go back to one narrator, namely (Urwa), who alone narrated on the authority of the Mother of the Believers (Aisha), and uniquely narrated on his authority from his son (Hisham), and in (Hisham) lies the problem, as (Ibn Hajar) said about him in (Huda Al-Sari) and (Al-Tahtheeb) ): «Abd al-Rahman bin Yusuf bin Kharash said: Malik was not satisfied with him. I heard that Malik was displeased with him for speaking to the people of Iraq. He came - he came - to Kufa three times, and once - he used to say: My father told me, he said: I heard Aisha, and he came - he came. - The second, so he used to say: “My father told me about Aisha,” and he introduced the third, so he used to say: “My father, on the authority of Aisha.”
The meaning is simply that (Hisham bin Urwa) was truthful in Medina, then when he went to Iraq, his memorization of the hadith began to deteriorate, and he began to (deceive), that is, to attribute the hadith to someone other than its narrator, then he began to say (on the authority of) my father, instead of (I heard or he told me), and the meaning is In the science of hadith, the word (I heard) or (he told me) is stronger than the narrator’s statement (on the authority of so-and-so), and the hadith in Bukhari is like this in which (Hisham) says on the authority of (my father) and not (I heard or he told me), which supports doubt about the chain of transmission of the hadith. Then the most important point is that Imam (Malik) said: The hadith of (Hisham) in Iraq is not acceptable. If we apply this to the hadith narrated by Al-Bukhari, we will find that it is authentic. The hadith was not narrated by a single narrator from Medina, but rather they were all Iraqis. What is certain is that (Hisham bin Urwa) was narrated. He narrated it in Iraq, after his memory had become poor. It is not possible for Hisham to stay in Medina for a long life, and not mention a hadith like this even once. Therefore, we do not find any mention of the age of Mrs. Aisha when she married the Prophet in the book “Al-Muwatta” by Imam Malik, which is Whoever saw and heard (Hisham bin Urwa) directly in Medina, these two reasons are sufficient to doubt the chain of transmission of the narration in Al-Bukhari, while emphasizing the corruption of its text - which was confirmed by previous historical comparison.
As for the jurists and hadith scholars, the first of whom is Al-Bukhari, to base this hadith on the illusions of rulers regarding the marriage of young girls, this is a black page on the pages of heritage. We will postpone discussion of it for a while. What is strange is that we find the Wahhabis promoting the saying that hot countries make girls reach puberty early while they are young. This is the talk of idiots and fools because The hot country, which is the Arabian Peninsula, is still hot, and in fact the temperature has increased exponentially, so why do we not find girls reaching their premature age at six or even at nine? This also contradicts scientific facts that confirm that there is no significant role for climate in early puberty.
>But I doubt that Turkish Islamists have ever read the Quran or other of the Religious books so they are getting mad at the boy for showing them the truth.
This.
That hadith books were written 300 years after his death. In addition, Four Caliphs,who were his relatives and close companions never allowed hadiths to be written; as they can replace Qur'an at some point.
These hadith books were written under Umayyad rule; considering their beef with The Prophet's family for right to rule and how propagandist they were, I will take those with a pinch of salt as well. Furthermore; Arab's of that time (before islam) were even burying their daughters alive, who took the recording of Aisha's birth? and yes, women's age were started to be counted after first mensturation, because that was when they became a woman.
How he sourced his hadiths? this said to that, that said to him, him said to them, they told us... like a high school gossip; what a relevant and scientifically acceptable source.
I am not even mentioning making the mistake of being anachronistic.
You wish to hate someone and something? go ahead but please, if you want to learn, do some comparative reading and use your mind for whatever divine's sake you hold sacred. We have already enough stupid people on earth.
lol that is just nonsense. It is made up later to deny the claims about Aisha. Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again and Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam therefore chronologically she was a child when she married. It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology.
> he only cited what is written in the Hadith, things that everyone can read and see with his own eyes.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/hazrat-aisha-was-19-not-9/story-G4kaBHqM0VXoBhLR0eI2oO.html
> But I doubt that Turkish Islamists have ever read the Quran or other of the Religious books so they are getting mad at the boy for showing them the truth
Then you cry (but not consider why) people like you are hated by Muslims
1- Molesting children is indeed immoral. I don't think arguing against molesting children should be a punishable offence.
2- Quoting religious books should also not be considered a punishable offence.
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5134
Al-Bukhari narrated in (Chapter - His saying: “Rather, the Hour is their appointed time, and the Hour is worse and more bitter”) on the authority of (Aisha) who said: “It was revealed to Muhammad \[in Mecca, and I am a slave girl playing” “Rather, the Hour is their appointed time, and the Hour is worse and more bitter.” It is known without dispute that **Surah (The Moon) was revealed. Four years after the beginning of the revelation, equivalent to (614 AD)**, if we believe Al-Bukhari’s narration, then (Aisha) was either not born or she was a newborn infant when the Surah was revealed, but (Aisha) says (I was a slave girl playing), meaning that she is a child playing, so how could she be? Not born yet? However, the calculation consistent with the events confirms that **she was (4) years old from the beginning of the revelation**. **When the Surah was revealed, she was (8) years old**, as we have repeatedly shown, which is consistent with the word (playing girl).
Al-Bukhari included (Chapter - The father and others shall not marry a virgin or a married man except with her consent). **The Messenger of God said: “Do not marry a virgin until she asks for permission.” They said, “O Messenger of God, and how did he give her permission?**” He said to be silent. So how could the Noble Messenger say this and do the opposite? The hadith that Al-Bukhari reported on the authority of Sunnah The Mother of the Believers, upon her marriage, is attributed to her saying, **“I was playing with girls - with dolls - and no one asked her about her permission to marry the Prophet**, and how could he ask her when she was a very young child who did not understand the meaning of marriage, and even her consent at this age does not produce a legal effect because it is the consent of someone who is not obligated or obligated to do so.” **Adult and sane.**
But the Hadith about her age is straightforward with a statement that she lived with the prophet for 9 years only, which means she was 18 when he died.
I see two options here, there might be more so feel free to add them:
1- the hadiths are contradictory, some are true and some aren't, because many scholars before Bukhari tampered with and edited the stories to fit whatever agenda they or their ruler was pushing (for example an Emir or Caliph wanted to indulge his pedophilia and marry underage girls so the scholars made up hadiths to justify it). If this is the case then Bukhari's books have no credibility and should be treated as fanfiction.
2- Bukhari is credible, so the hadiths about the 9 years old are true, in which case the criticisms are valid.
So either the Prophet or Bukhari was a bad person.
**Sahih Bukhari 4993**
>
**Chapter 54 was revealed around 4-5 years after the first revelation to the Prophet ﷺ in 610AD**, so around 614-15AD. **If Aisha was married to the Prophet ﷺ at the age of six at 624AD, then she would not have been even born at the time of the revelation of this verse**. Yet she remembers this revelation and was of a playing age during its revelation. Hence, this contradicts the narration of her being married at 6 or 9 and shows that her estimate of her age was incorrect due to the lack of calendars.
Furthermore, Ibn Sīdah and Ibn Manẓūr say in *al-Muḥkam* and Lisanul Arab dictionary that “The word *jāriyah* means a young girl (*fatiyyah*).” The word *fatiyyah* means an adolescent girl (*shābbah*). It seems as though they would use the word *jāriyah* for a girl at the beginning of her adolescence because she is still running here and there \[playing\]. A 4 year old is not called a jariyah unless it is to contrast a male and female in the same sentence. Hence, in this case it refers to a **younger girl who is almost an adolescent**. She would have been around 7-9 years old when this verse was revealed in 614-15AD. **This places her age at 16-18 years old at the time of marriage one year after migration in 624AD.**
And again we don't take sahih al bukhari seriously nor the al bukhary himself.
If reciting hadith is a crime, yes, he should be under arrest. However, in this case, all of muslim scholars who recite Hadith should have the same end.
The matter is not the Hadith. The matter is a non-theist man telling the truth.
There wrong haidth and right hadith, And i believe that should be filtered by sheikhs and religious authorities which i believe particularly in turkey is lacking , You should check the narration of the hadith and every narrator has credibility till the source
He will be charged with disturb the peace of society and disrespecting the cultural and religious values of people. It will take 4-5 hearing for him to prove innocent in which he has to spend money for lawyer etc. He will not get a punishment at the end. They are just trying to scare him of by they I mean ; amına kodumunun ibneleri
Secular does not have anything to do with “insulting religions being permitted” doctrine. Rather, religion is not used as the fundamental foundation of governance and constitution.
Frankly, you're the most polite White supremacist Zionist I ever encountered in reddit.
Waliuddin Muhammad Abdullah Al-Khateeb al Amri Tabrizi the famous author of Mishkath, in Asma ur Rijal writes that Hazrat Asma died in the year 73 Hijri at the age of 100, ten or twelve days after the martyrdom of her son Abdullah Ibn Zubair. It is common knowledge that the Islamic calendar starts from the year of the Hijrah or the Prophet’s migration from Mecca to Medina.
Therefore, by deducting 73, the year of Hazrat Asma’s death, from 100, her age at that time, we can easily conclude that she was 27 years old during Hijra.
This puts the age of Hazrat Aisha at between 18/19 during the same period. As all biographers of the Prophet agree that he consummated his marriage with Hazrat Aisha in the year 2 Hijri it can be conclusively said that she was 19 at that time and not nine as alleged in the aforementioned hadiths.
see Quran ( 7:189 and 30:21) (4:6)(4:21) for further reference.
Good day.
Not only that. Quite a number of the Hadiths that narrate her age have Aisha herself in the isnad, which would have given her ample time to correct it.
Genuine question but why can't adults play with dolls? Even in this day and age I've seen countless adults engaged with hobbies and things meant for children. Also, I don't think using the general consensus is a good source to debunk the previous person's reply (who I admit added valid sources) since Islam uses the holy book and it's last prophet sayings as source only
You gave your own question: a lot of people consider it is meant for children ONLY. A lot of people pop a vein if they hear an adult has fun instead of doing "something useful".
I do, there is absolute zero timeframe in history where marrying a six year old was normal. If you weren’t an Islamist, you would realize you’re wrong. But that’s the problem with your people, you hate to admit that your entire culture is false, then you move to Europe and want to destroy ours as well. I hope you enjoy Germany!
Btw, guys, you behave as if you've found something shocking and wow. Read up a bit on this, educate yourselves, before you appear totally clueless (to say it in the mildest form).
There are contradicting views about the age of Hazrat Ayesha (R.A),and that marriage has to be seen in a lot of context and it's just not a simple matter.Many scholars have explained it and you'll understand it if only you're open to sense.
Arresting that guy wasn't the good decision and he should've been answered properly by a scholar.
If you are open to sense you would know that Aisha was a child when she was married.. Scholars made up baseless excuses later to deny the claims about Aisha. Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again and Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam therefore chronologically she was a child when she married. It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology.
Edit: Adamos blocked me so I can't reply but about what he said contradicts with chronology. Aisha being born before islam isn't possible while he divorced from his first wife after beginning of islam and his wife refusing islam and then them divorcing are more than enough to see the reason but that doesn't even matter because in the end Aisha didn't born from his first marriage so she was born after islam and obviously marrying and getting pregnant and giving birth take times too.
> Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again
Abu Bakr was married to several women during his lifetime, and two of his wives are well-documented: Qutaylah bint Abd-al-Uzza and Umm Ruman. Qutaylah, Abu Bakr's first wife, did not accept Islam, and they were separated before the migration to Medina, but there is no solid evidence that suggests the reason for their separation was her refusal to convert to Islam.
> Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam
Aisha was born from his marriage to Umm Ruman, not as a result of a second marriage following a religiously motivated divorce. Aisha was born well before the proclamation of Islam, and both of her parents, Abu Bakr and Umm Ruman, later became Muslims.
> therefore chronologically she was a child when she married.
Chronologically, she was engaged to a Non Muslim — Jubayr ibn Mut'im. The family of Jubayr ibn Mut'im did not convert to Islam, leading to the dissolution of the engagement.
> It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology.
It is entirely possible.
Aisha bint Abu Bakr was likely born after the proclamation of Islam. The exact date of her birth is not definitively known, but it is generally believed to have been after the advent of Islam.
The problem with Turkish Islamic scholars is that the fact that they are not fluent in Arabic to understand it properly. They can’t understand metaphors etc. Even the head of directorate of religious affairs was caught on live TV reading a preyed in Arabic written with Turkish characters in to his hand. Which suggest that he can’t even read Arabic properly. He is supposed to be the among the best religious scholars in the country. He is more known for his love for his armored Mercedes and love of organizing Islamic events in 5 star hotel rather than promoting modesties as Islam suggests.
What could be wrong with reading a hadith? Turkey is a secular republic, and the freedom of thought of every citizen should be protected. If every criticism of Islam is silenced, there will be no freedom left.
Can someone please say was Prophet Muhammed married to Hz Aişe when she was 6 and he made love with her when she was 9? Turkish conservatives claim that in the past, among Arab girls, their age began to be counted after they reached puberty. So they say that Hz. Aişe was 17 years old when she was married to prophet. Is it true or not can Arap people answer it? Thanks.
Yeah its true back then the average person lifespan didn't go above 30 years and when people hit puberty they would get married so they can have children quickly. Plus people back then mentally matured quicker than now due to the harsh life.
Muhammad married his first wife when she was 40, if age in women really was counted from puberty she would have been around 52 years old at the time. So how was she able to give Muhammad 6 children?
Actually, the age of Khadijah at her marriage to Muhammad is traditionally cited as 40 years old, but this is based on Islamic historical sources and not on a concept of counting age from puberty. In ancient Arabia, there wasn't a uniform method for calculating age as we have today.
Medically, while it's less common, women can have children in their later years, particularly prior to menopause, which varies from woman to woman. Khadijah having children with Muhammad after the age of 40 is entirely plausible, as women can remain fertile into their early 50s, albeit fertility rates significantly decline as they age. Thus, while it’s less common, it’s not impossible and would not necessarily contradict historical accounts.
It contradicts with science and historical accounts.
Muhammed had multiple children with her and she would close to 60 if counting age from puberty excuse was true which makes it bullshit because even this age with advanced technology and help women having children close to 60 is like miracle. Also people going with islamic historical sources about age for traditional counting or counting age from puberty to deny Aisha marrying with him as child is funny and doesn't hold any water for this baseless argument.
About your other reply what you said contradicts with chronology. Aisha being born before islam isn't possible while he divorced from his first wife after beginning of islam and his wife refusing islam and then them divorcing are more than enough to see the reason but that doesn't even matter because in the end Aisha didn't born from his first marriage so she was born after islam and obviously marrying and getting pregnant and giving birth take times too.
It seems like you are just another one who believe what you want to believe while ignoring facts and not being objective which makes arguing with you futile.
That's a bullshit argument. That 30 years thing is purely based on the mortality rate. Not at what age people actually died. A lot of people died in many ways especially at a young age due to diseases etc. If you divide the amount of people that died by their age you would get 30, but it's not like they dropped dead at that age. People grew old like today to like at least 60.
You know.... there are just as many historical hadeeths that Aisha herself put her age much older. How come no one seems to pick up on those. She could have been 18 when she married Mohammad.
That is not true becaue Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again and Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam therefore chronologically she was a child when she married. It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology.
Edit: Adamos blocked me so I can't reply but about what he said contradicts with chronology. Aisha being born before islam isn't possible while he divorced from his first wife after beginning of islam and his wife refusing islam and then them divorcing are more than enough to see the reason but that doesn't even matter because in the end Aisha didn't born from his first marriage so she was born after islam and obviously marrying and getting pregnant and giving birth take times too.
> Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again
Abu Bakr was married to several women during his lifetime, and two of his wives are well-documented: Qutaylah bint Abd-al-Uzza and Umm Ruman. Qutaylah, Abu Bakr's first wife, did not accept Islam, and they were separated before the migration to Medina, but there is no solid evidence that suggests the reason for their separation was her refusal to convert to Islam.
> Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam
Aisha was born from his marriage to Umm Ruman, not as a result of a second marriage following a religiously motivated divorce. Aisha was born well before the proclamation of Islam, and both of her parents, Abu Bakr and Umm Ruman, later became Muslims.
> therefore chronologically she was a child when she married.
Chronologically, she was engaged to a Non Muslim — Jubayr ibn Mut'im. The family of Jubayr ibn Mut'im did not convert to Islam, leading to the dissolution of the engagement.
> It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology.
It is entirely possible.
This is the wrong way to combat misinformation, using violence and arrests will only suppress their voices but not change their views, challenging their views directly with facts and debates and logic is a more effective way of removing misinformation from their minds, we should never use violence for arrogant people, it would only make things worse
It is not directly misinformation but it is a misunderstanding that people have where they compare today’s morals and the morals of people from a really long time ago which is unfair and illogical.
That is irrelevant what the Prophet did was correct based on his time period and we should apply the same things in our lives in a conceptual manner. That means that if the Prophet did something appropriate for his time period we should do the things appropriate in ours in the same ways he did.
That is not what I said. If it was customary to chew with your mouth open 1400 years ago and the Prophet did that and now it is considered disgusting you don’t have to chew with your mouth open. Circumstances change and to an extent we must adapt. If the Prophet said you have to marry a six year old then it would be different, but he never told us to do that. The things he said we must do we do. The Prophet would not tell us to do something that is impossible to achieve or wrong to do later and that is why he didn’t make everything he did fard on us.
It is definitely immoral in today's standards, just how like slavery and the lack of women rights is immortal in today's standards. Back then, however, the standards were different
If you are asking from a faith-based perspective, then I cannot answer that as I am not an adherent of Islam.
From an abstract perspective, what is right and what is wrong change overtime, whether it be morals and ethics such as slavery, or it be science such as the states of matter (when I was in high school there were 3: solid, liquid, and gas. Now they are 5)
It is immoral by today’s standards. You cannot place your morals on someone from 1400 years ago where the times were completely different. In the USA, for example, the age of consent in 1880 in most places was 10 or 12 and one state even had 7. This would never be commented on because it’s stupid to say that we live in the same circumstances as they did. Following the law of the USA in 1880 should by your logic make you immoral, but this was the agreed age back then as it was 1400 years ago. Do not slander the actions of the Prophet because you can’t comprehend the subjectivity of morals and circumstances.
Again the age of consent in the USA was quite literally 7 in one state not even 200 years ago. The 18 year old age of consent that was standardized is a very modern thing.
Brother, that doesn't change the fact that he married a 9 year old. By the us south's standart slavery was okay up until the civil war, does that excuse slavery as moral for their time??
The US had slavery a long time after other countries the US communicated with had deemed it morally wrong and the south still insisted on it which makes them wrong by much of the world’s morals at the time. The 18 year old age of consent that many countries now use is a very modern concept and back then the globally accepted age of consent was significantly lower. Had this been a very isolated example of the age of consent being lower than the modern one your argument may have merit but that’s not the case.
For the record, the aḥādīth that say he did marry ʿĀʾishah when she was 6 and consummated at 9 are forgeries and false. See [the following](https://islamicorigins.com/the-unabridged-version-of-my-phd-thesis/).
Saw his video by chance on youtube and i gotta say i hate this dude so much before that incident, And he looks like a girl i thought he was a trans-woman , **However according to other historical sources such as** ***Al-Nawawi, Ibn Kathir and Ibn Hisham,*** **Asma who is Aisha's sister, was 10 years older than Aisha**. She died at the age of 100 around in 73AH or 695AD. Asma was born in 596AD and **was 14 years old when Islam began**. Aisha would have been 4 when Islam began in 610AD. This means Aisha would have been born in 606AD. At the time of migration Asma would have been around 27 years old. If Aisha was 10 years younger than her, then she would have been around 17 years old during the migration and thus **18 years old during the marriage a year later**. Or if other narrations are correct then she would have been 14-15 when she was married and **17-18 when the marriage was consummated a year after the migration in 623AD.**
You can hate a guy morally just because he have long hair and you misjudged him with your few braincells as a trans. What kind of human are you I'm disgusted about you. This is you, you can eat every shit about human rights but whenever a human find out what you are. HUUU kEmALiSts vIoLAte OuR hUmAn RiGhTs. Humans who respected others rights have human rights not you.
Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again and Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam therefore chronologically she was a child when she married. It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology.
Edit: Adamos blocked me so I can't reply but about what he said contradicts with chronology. Aisha being born before islam isn't possible while he divorced from his first wife after beginning of islam and his wife refusing islam and then them divorcing are more than enough to see the reason but that doesn't even matter because in the end Aisha didn't born from his first marriage so she was born after islam and obviously marrying and getting pregnant and giving birth take times too.
> Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again
Abu Bakr was married to several women during his lifetime, and two of his wives are well-documented: Qutaylah bint Abd-al-Uzza and Umm Ruman. Qutaylah, Abu Bakr's first wife, did not accept Islam, and they were separated before the migration to Medina, but there is no solid evidence that suggests the reason for their separation was her refusal to convert to Islam.
> Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam
Aisha was born from his marriage to Umm Ruman, not as a result of a second marriage following a religiously motivated divorce. Aisha was born well before the proclamation of Islam, and both of her parents, Abu Bakr and Umm Ruman, later became Muslims.
> therefore chronologically she was a child when she married.
Chronologically, she was engaged to a Non Muslim — Jubayr ibn Mut'im. The family of Jubayr ibn Mut'im did not convert to Islam, leading to the dissolution of the engagement.
> It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology.
It is entirely possible.
Is being trans supposed to be an insult? What kind of person are you? Why do you enjoy insulting others? Is your life that bad that you need to pull others down so you feel better with yourself?
I hate this dude for no reason he doesnt just have the acceptance nothing to do with him being a trans or not i just stated the fact he does look trans or queer No Hate here what so ever ! If he's a trans i dont hate him for it
There's no reason to believe that he is part of a sexual or gender minority, you are just using that because you consider it humiliating, that's why you said he looked trans (because for many it is an abomination).
You thrive on hate and division, may God forgive you because you have no idea of the things you say.
may God forgive you... Pal homosexuality is a sin and Taking a trait of the opposite gender in all religions and the guy literally insulted prophet muhammad pbuh and i am a muslim what should i do ? And i swear i thought the guy was trans or a girl at first , Dont get into gender politics and dont be very sensitive about it if you are queer yourself and i swear i don't hate you what soo ever
He doesn't look too different from the guys i saw while visiting Egypt, only major difference is a lighter skin tone.... Are all hotel resort workers and men in Hurghada city gay/trans???
You right i apologize i must never use god's name to justify a comment and i didn't insult anyone just because i misgendered him isn't an insult it's a mistake not hate, You're the one who is assuming since i labelled him a trans it must be derogatory On the contradict
No it is not. Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again and Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam therefore chronologically she was a child when she married. It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology.
Minister of Justice of Turkey tweeted that there is a "Yakalama kararı" on his behalf meaning he will be arrested the moment he comes to Turkey. He will most likely be jailed for 4 days.
[SHE WAS 19 THEY KEEP CHANGING HER AGE FROM 12 TO 9 TO 6 I AM SICK OF THESE LIES](https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/hazrat-aisha-was-19-not-9/story-G4kaBHqM0VXoBhLR0eI2oO.html)
Despite that particular link, if you look at the dates of hadith, or those who did the calculations it seems impossible that she was actually 6.
Why did people think she was 6? Iirc (not a hadith scholar, but from recollection) because she said that in old age. Old people get confused. On the other hand, if she was 6, a lot of other hadith would have to be incorrect.
its what is famous amoung all muslims from that time up until this day. i dont get where the 19 number come from? can you provide any evidence to that?
Well, in the link they show one of the arguments, but here is another link done by an actual scholar: [https://hawramani.com/aisha-age-of-marriage-to-prophet-muhammad-study/](https://hawramani.com/aisha-age-of-marriage-to-prophet-muhammad-study/)
You can read the entire list of arguments, which handle both positions.
At the time the Hadith were assembled, I think they were more concerned with noting them down and making sure the chains are good. So they just went "6? Fine" But some people noticed the discrepancies later on
No she was not. At least be honest buharis hadiths are the most certain ones. She was 9 when she got married. You could argue by saying that people at that time were getting much faster older or like "she has married the best person ever ". But she was 9 according to one of the most trustworthy sunni Muslim sources
Congrats you're like the 80th person to takfir shias I've seen on this site . Quite a milestone but anyways u can choose to ignore the source but feel free to change your mind anytime
The actual explanation of that hadith is that despite it being sahih, it's a hadith related to purely recording an event. It's practically inconsequential to practicing the deen.
Idk but the picture with lots of books means he read alot maybe but who taught him how to understand and know facts and other things ☺
Someone who doesn't know Arab customs may say that. Yes u can promise marry you daughter if u want but u can't force her. Promise to get married is different than consuming the marriage ☺.
I know some people from over a century or more who have married when they became an adult maybe 12 years old or more and they were happy and the family too.
BTW, did you know that Europe maybe over 400 years didn't give inheritance to women as I have heard from old Europeans who live there and know their real history.
So many things in history will be revealed in the future and I hope we can learn lessons from that ☺
BTW whats the age of becoming an adult in Islam?
Of course not.
>Turkish government issued an arrest warrant for Diamond Tema because Diamond is an Albanian This was the correct decision.
Lmfaooi
Hahahahahaha
based
[Based Turks ](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/220/820/399.jpg)
People like you are what is wrong with Islamists. How do you expect the rest of the world to respect you when you don't respect basic freedom of thought and expression. Then you come and cry about European countries banning the most extreme manifestations of your religion. Look at yourself first.
read again
Read my comment carefully before you type out your mental diarrhoea.
Who cares if he is Albanian or not, doesn't make a difference if you support him being arrested just for voicing his opinion
I was making a joke that he was arrested for being albanian rather than voicing his opinion. everybody else seemed to get it except for you.
Catholic here, he is right.
Racist idiots. You literally know nothing about Dio.
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And? If doing the right thing according to Islam makes look bad then so be it. The kuffar will never accept us anyway
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True I'm being ignorant of the secular western way of governing a country but not how Islamic laws work. If a person has in reality used some slandering words in respect of Nabi Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam, this brutal act although causes for apostasy and emission from the fold of Islam, according to Shari’a it becomes permissible to put him to death until he repents over his this mean act and makes Thowba/Isthighfar and again comes to the fold of Islam. But this ruling is tied with the time of committing the sin. (Fiqhul Islam Vol 2 p184) whereas after lapsing of time the authority of putting him to death will rest only in the hands of the Courts and none else. Therefore it is necessary for the three who were present at the place to take legal action against the culprit and it is incumbent upon the Courts have a complete investigation and convict the accused with stern punishment so as to become a lesson for others. (Fiqhul Islam Vol 2, p188) Source https://islamqa.org/hanafi/jamia-binoria/233412/insulting-and-offensive-words-to-disgrace-our-prophet-muhammad-%ef%b7%ba/
>Do you think the arrest decision is right? No. If his view is so bad they should he able to challenge it with better views, not violence.
No, it’s disgraceful.
aggreed
Nope
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he actually said exactly that. lol, i watched the video and a speak turkish so not a translation error
What truth ? Some narrative of sahih al bukhari we dont even use in egypt we dont have this aisha pbuh married at 9 or 6 years old ,Our tradition says she married around 16 to 18 years old and i doubt that you even have any knowledge about islam
How do you decide which parts of sahih to use and which parts not to use?
In egypt we treat each hadith as a separate case and many know it just by heart and we check for the narrators if one only one narrator gave before a weak hadith we disregard the authenticity , Hadith is the narration of the prophet muhammed pbuh not al bukhari , And we check and compare all versions and Sahih muslim , musnad abi hanifa , ib al sakan , Abi dawood , Imam malik , Ibn habaan and other and you compare and it shows you which is a weak narration and which is a strong one
So, you are just cherry picking then. Because bukhari is so sahih that it is the source of the 5 daily prayers. It is by far the most important source of hadith out there.
The five prayers hadith is from the sahih of abu dawood and the narrator who matter to me the most not al bukhari nor abi dawood nor ahmad and the narrator is the companion Ibadah ibn al samet
And abu dawood cites bukhari for that. Cherrpicking babies like you are not merely annoying, you are simply disgusting in your dishonesty. You aren't worth anybodies time.
You tradition isn't a scientific source but chronology is a realible source as I said above Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again and Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam therefore chronologically she was a child when she married. It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology.
Calculating the age of Aisha pbuh in relation to the age of her sister (Asmaa bint Abi Bakr - Dhat al-Nitaqain): All the aforementioned historical sources say that (Asmaa) was (10) years older than (Aisha), as the same sources narrate without a single difference between them, (Asmaa) was born (27) years before the migration to Medina, which means that her age at the beginning of the prophetic mission in the year (610 AD) was (14) years, by subtracting from her age before the migration (13) years, which are the years of the prophetic call in Mecca, because (27-13 = 14 years), and as all sources stated without disagreement that she is older than (Aisha) by (10) years, then it is confirmed that the age of (Aisha) was (4) years at the beginning of the prophetic mission in Mecca, meaning that she was born before The revelation begins with (4) full years, in the year (606 AD), and this results in a simple calculation that when the Messenger married her in Mecca in the tenth year from the beginning of the prophetic mission, she was (14) years old, because (4 + 10 = 14 years), or In other words, Aisha was born in the year 606 AD and married the Prophet (620 AD) when she was 14 years old. **As mentioned, he consummated his marriage with her - consummated his marriage with her - after 3 years and a few months. That is, at the end of the first year of the Hijra and the beginning of The second, in the year 624 AD, makes her age at that time (14 + 3 + 1 = 18 full years), which is the real age at which the Holy Prophet married (Aisha).** 2 - Calculating the age of (Aisha) regarding the death of her sister (Asmaa - Dhat Al-Nitaqain): Previous historical sources confirm without dispute that (Asmaa) died after a famous, dated and proven incident, which was the killing of her son (Abdullah bin Al-Zubayr) at the hands of the tyrant (Al-Hajjaj). The famous one, in the year (73 AH), and she was (100) years old. If we subtract the age of (Asmaa) from the year of her death (73 AH), when she was (100) years old, then (100-73 = 27 years) is her age. At the time of the Prophet’s migration, this is completely consistent with her age mentioned in historical sources. **If we subtract 10 years from her age - which are the years in which her sister (Aisha) grows up - the age of (Aisha) becomes (27-10 = 17 years), which is the age of (Aisha). ) At the time of the Hijra, even if the Prophet consummated the marriage with her at the end of the first year, her age at that time would be (17 + 1 = 18 years), which confirms the correct calculation of the age of the lady (Aisha) upon marriage to the Prophet**, and what also supports this is that (Al-Tabari) He asserts with certainty in his book (The History of Nations) that all of Abu Bakr’s children were born in pre-Islamic times, and this is consistent with the correct time line, and reveals the weakness of Al-Bukhari’s narration, because (Aisha) was actually born in the fourth year before the start of the prophetic mission.
All of Abu Bakr’s children can't be born in pre-Islamic times because he married with his second wife after islam which is a fact because his first wife didn't want to be muslim so Aisha was born after islam. It seems like you are biased and just repeating what you want to believe so there is no point for further discussion. Edit: Adamos_Amet blocked me so I can't reply but about what he said contradicts with chronology. Aisha being born before islam isn't possible while he divorced from his first wife after beginning of islam and his wife refusing islam and then them divorcing are more than enough to see the reason but that doesn't even matter because in the end Aisha didn't born from his first marriage so she was born after islam and obviously marrying and getting pregnant and giving birth take times too.
Abu Bakr was married to several women during his lifetime, and two of his wives are well-documented: Qutaylah bint Abd-al-Uzza and Umm Ruman. Qutaylah, Abu Bakr's first wife, did not accept Islam, and they were separated before the migration to Medina, but there is no solid evidence that suggests the reason for their separation was her refusal to convert to Islam. Aisha was born from his marriage to Umm Ruman, not as a result of a second marriage following a religiously motivated divorce. Aisha was born well before the proclamation of Islam, and both of her parents, Abu Bakr and Umm Ruman, later became Muslims. Chronologically, she was engaged to a Non Muslim — Jubayr ibn Mut'im. The family of Jubayr ibn Mut'im did not convert to Islam, leading to the dissolution of the engagement.
Lmao what? HadithS don't change from country to country, and the hadith mention the age leaving no room for speculation. Furthermore this was agreed upon by everyone before the modern era
Criticism of the Hadith narration : I will focus here on explaining the reasons for the chain of transmission in Bukhari’s narration only: The hadith in which the age of the Mother of the Believers was mentioned came in five ways: Farwa bin Abi Al-Mughraa told me: Ali bin Mushar told us, on the authority of Hisham, on the authority of his father, on the authority of Aisha. Ubaid bin Ismail told me: Abu Osama told us, on the authority of Hisham, on the authority of his father. Mu’alla bin Asad narrated to us: Wahib narrated to us, on the authority of Hisham bin Urwa, on the authority of Aisha. Muhammad bin Yusuf narrated to us: Sufyan narrated to us, on the authority of Hisham, on the authority of his father, on the authority of Aisha. Qubaisa bin Uqba narrated to us: Sufyan narrated to us, on the authority of Hisham bin Urwa, on the authority of Urwa. As we see, all the narrations go back to one narrator, namely (Urwa), who alone narrated on the authority of the Mother of the Believers (Aisha), and uniquely narrated on his authority from his son (Hisham), and in (Hisham) lies the problem, as (Ibn Hajar) said about him in (Huda Al-Sari) and (Al-Tahtheeb) ): «Abd al-Rahman bin Yusuf bin Kharash said: Malik was not satisfied with him. I heard that Malik was displeased with him for speaking to the people of Iraq. He came - he came - to Kufa three times, and once - he used to say: My father told me, he said: I heard Aisha, and he came - he came. - The second, so he used to say: “My father told me about Aisha,” and he introduced the third, so he used to say: “My father, on the authority of Aisha.” The meaning is simply that (Hisham bin Urwa) was truthful in Medina, then when he went to Iraq, his memorization of the hadith began to deteriorate, and he began to (deceive), that is, to attribute the hadith to someone other than its narrator, then he began to say (on the authority of) my father, instead of (I heard or he told me), and the meaning is In the science of hadith, the word (I heard) or (he told me) is stronger than the narrator’s statement (on the authority of so-and-so), and the hadith in Bukhari is like this in which (Hisham) says on the authority of (my father) and not (I heard or he told me), which supports doubt about the chain of transmission of the hadith. Then the most important point is that Imam (Malik) said: The hadith of (Hisham) in Iraq is not acceptable. If we apply this to the hadith narrated by Al-Bukhari, we will find that it is authentic. The hadith was not narrated by a single narrator from Medina, but rather they were all Iraqis. What is certain is that (Hisham bin Urwa) was narrated. He narrated it in Iraq, after his memory had become poor. It is not possible for Hisham to stay in Medina for a long life, and not mention a hadith like this even once. Therefore, we do not find any mention of the age of Mrs. Aisha when she married the Prophet in the book “Al-Muwatta” by Imam Malik, which is Whoever saw and heard (Hisham bin Urwa) directly in Medina, these two reasons are sufficient to doubt the chain of transmission of the narration in Al-Bukhari, while emphasizing the corruption of its text - which was confirmed by previous historical comparison. As for the jurists and hadith scholars, the first of whom is Al-Bukhari, to base this hadith on the illusions of rulers regarding the marriage of young girls, this is a black page on the pages of heritage. We will postpone discussion of it for a while. What is strange is that we find the Wahhabis promoting the saying that hot countries make girls reach puberty early while they are young. This is the talk of idiots and fools because The hot country, which is the Arabian Peninsula, is still hot, and in fact the temperature has increased exponentially, so why do we not find girls reaching their premature age at six or even at nine? This also contradicts scientific facts that confirm that there is no significant role for climate in early puberty.
>But I doubt that Turkish Islamists have ever read the Quran or other of the Religious books so they are getting mad at the boy for showing them the truth. This.
That hadith books were written 300 years after his death. In addition, Four Caliphs,who were his relatives and close companions never allowed hadiths to be written; as they can replace Qur'an at some point. These hadith books were written under Umayyad rule; considering their beef with The Prophet's family for right to rule and how propagandist they were, I will take those with a pinch of salt as well. Furthermore; Arab's of that time (before islam) were even burying their daughters alive, who took the recording of Aisha's birth? and yes, women's age were started to be counted after first mensturation, because that was when they became a woman. How he sourced his hadiths? this said to that, that said to him, him said to them, they told us... like a high school gossip; what a relevant and scientifically acceptable source. I am not even mentioning making the mistake of being anachronistic. You wish to hate someone and something? go ahead but please, if you want to learn, do some comparative reading and use your mind for whatever divine's sake you hold sacred. We have already enough stupid people on earth.
This! Thank you so much for pointing this out.
So how old did Mohammad marry her?
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I heard that Arabs counted after a girl completed her PhD. Based on my calculations, she was 32 years old when she got married.
lol that is just nonsense. It is made up later to deny the claims about Aisha. Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again and Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam therefore chronologically she was a child when she married. It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology.
> he only cited what is written in the Hadith, things that everyone can read and see with his own eyes. https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/hazrat-aisha-was-19-not-9/story-G4kaBHqM0VXoBhLR0eI2oO.html > But I doubt that Turkish Islamists have ever read the Quran or other of the Religious books so they are getting mad at the boy for showing them the truth Then you cry (but not consider why) people like you are hated by Muslims
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Damm, The white supremacist nazi is crying now.
Jesus white supremacist, touch some grass
1- Molesting children is indeed immoral. I don't think arguing against molesting children should be a punishable offence. 2- Quoting religious books should also not be considered a punishable offence. https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5134
Agreed 💯👍
That's why your father should be ekzekuted for molesting your child mom.
Al-Bukhari narrated in (Chapter - His saying: “Rather, the Hour is their appointed time, and the Hour is worse and more bitter”) on the authority of (Aisha) who said: “It was revealed to Muhammad \[in Mecca, and I am a slave girl playing” “Rather, the Hour is their appointed time, and the Hour is worse and more bitter.” It is known without dispute that **Surah (The Moon) was revealed. Four years after the beginning of the revelation, equivalent to (614 AD)**, if we believe Al-Bukhari’s narration, then (Aisha) was either not born or she was a newborn infant when the Surah was revealed, but (Aisha) says (I was a slave girl playing), meaning that she is a child playing, so how could she be? Not born yet? However, the calculation consistent with the events confirms that **she was (4) years old from the beginning of the revelation**. **When the Surah was revealed, she was (8) years old**, as we have repeatedly shown, which is consistent with the word (playing girl). Al-Bukhari included (Chapter - The father and others shall not marry a virgin or a married man except with her consent). **The Messenger of God said: “Do not marry a virgin until she asks for permission.” They said, “O Messenger of God, and how did he give her permission?**” He said to be silent. So how could the Noble Messenger say this and do the opposite? The hadith that Al-Bukhari reported on the authority of Sunnah The Mother of the Believers, upon her marriage, is attributed to her saying, **“I was playing with girls - with dolls - and no one asked her about her permission to marry the Prophet**, and how could he ask her when she was a very young child who did not understand the meaning of marriage, and even her consent at this age does not produce a legal effect because it is the consent of someone who is not obligated or obligated to do so.” **Adult and sane.**
But the Hadith about her age is straightforward with a statement that she lived with the prophet for 9 years only, which means she was 18 when he died. I see two options here, there might be more so feel free to add them: 1- the hadiths are contradictory, some are true and some aren't, because many scholars before Bukhari tampered with and edited the stories to fit whatever agenda they or their ruler was pushing (for example an Emir or Caliph wanted to indulge his pedophilia and marry underage girls so the scholars made up hadiths to justify it). If this is the case then Bukhari's books have no credibility and should be treated as fanfiction. 2- Bukhari is credible, so the hadiths about the 9 years old are true, in which case the criticisms are valid. So either the Prophet or Bukhari was a bad person.
**Sahih Bukhari 4993** > **Chapter 54 was revealed around 4-5 years after the first revelation to the Prophet ﷺ in 610AD**, so around 614-15AD. **If Aisha was married to the Prophet ﷺ at the age of six at 624AD, then she would not have been even born at the time of the revelation of this verse**. Yet she remembers this revelation and was of a playing age during its revelation. Hence, this contradicts the narration of her being married at 6 or 9 and shows that her estimate of her age was incorrect due to the lack of calendars. Furthermore, Ibn Sīdah and Ibn Manẓūr say in *al-Muḥkam* and Lisanul Arab dictionary that “The word *jāriyah* means a young girl (*fatiyyah*).” The word *fatiyyah* means an adolescent girl (*shābbah*). It seems as though they would use the word *jāriyah* for a girl at the beginning of her adolescence because she is still running here and there \[playing\]. A 4 year old is not called a jariyah unless it is to contrast a male and female in the same sentence. Hence, in this case it refers to a **younger girl who is almost an adolescent**. She would have been around 7-9 years old when this verse was revealed in 614-15AD. **This places her age at 16-18 years old at the time of marriage one year after migration in 624AD.** And again we don't take sahih al bukhari seriously nor the al bukhary himself.
If reciting hadith is a crime, yes, he should be under arrest. However, in this case, all of muslim scholars who recite Hadith should have the same end. The matter is not the Hadith. The matter is a non-theist man telling the truth.
There wrong haidth and right hadith, And i believe that should be filtered by sheikhs and religious authorities which i believe particularly in turkey is lacking , You should check the narration of the hadith and every narrator has credibility till the source
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He will be charged with disturb the peace of society and disrespecting the cultural and religious values of people. It will take 4-5 hearing for him to prove innocent in which he has to spend money for lawyer etc. He will not get a punishment at the end. They are just trying to scare him of by they I mean ; amına kodumunun ibneleri
I bet my amigdala is bigger than your
The same law that other guy broke banning Jews from his bookstore. Needless to say the government screwed him over too.
That's actually discrimination on ethnic bases! These things aren't comparable
dude literally used aktually 💀
Being secular means insults against religious people are allowed?
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Secular does not have anything to do with “insulting religions being permitted” doctrine. Rather, religion is not used as the fundamental foundation of governance and constitution.
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The hadith states she was 18/19
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Frankly, you're the most polite White supremacist Zionist I ever encountered in reddit. Waliuddin Muhammad Abdullah Al-Khateeb al Amri Tabrizi the famous author of Mishkath, in Asma ur Rijal writes that Hazrat Asma died in the year 73 Hijri at the age of 100, ten or twelve days after the martyrdom of her son Abdullah Ibn Zubair. It is common knowledge that the Islamic calendar starts from the year of the Hijrah or the Prophet’s migration from Mecca to Medina. Therefore, by deducting 73, the year of Hazrat Asma’s death, from 100, her age at that time, we can easily conclude that she was 27 years old during Hijra. This puts the age of Hazrat Aisha at between 18/19 during the same period. As all biographers of the Prophet agree that he consummated his marriage with Hazrat Aisha in the year 2 Hijri it can be conclusively said that she was 19 at that time and not nine as alleged in the aforementioned hadiths. see Quran ( 7:189 and 30:21) (4:6)(4:21) for further reference. Good day.
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Not only that. Quite a number of the Hadiths that narrate her age have Aisha herself in the isnad, which would have given her ample time to correct it.
Genuine question but why can't adults play with dolls? Even in this day and age I've seen countless adults engaged with hobbies and things meant for children. Also, I don't think using the general consensus is a good source to debunk the previous person's reply (who I admit added valid sources) since Islam uses the holy book and it's last prophet sayings as source only
You gave your own question: a lot of people consider it is meant for children ONLY. A lot of people pop a vein if they hear an adult has fun instead of doing "something useful".
It is in the hadith, but that's not immorality. It's historical and cultural context missing in dumb people's commentaries.
Show us where the historical context is that a six year old is not a child or marrying a six year old is immoral?
Be honest with yourself.;) If you really wanted to know it and to turn off the prejudices, you would have already done that.;)
I do, there is absolute zero timeframe in history where marrying a six year old was normal. If you weren’t an Islamist, you would realize you’re wrong. But that’s the problem with your people, you hate to admit that your entire culture is false, then you move to Europe and want to destroy ours as well. I hope you enjoy Germany!
Well, then you need read a bit more about history. As for destruction, most of European countries are subject matter experts.;)
You’re speaking English. Go back to turkey.
Yes.
Insult? there are thousands of “Muslims” who believe this is the truth.
Is stating sahih hadits considered an insult now?
Hahaha username checks out 😂
Btw, guys, you behave as if you've found something shocking and wow. Read up a bit on this, educate yourselves, before you appear totally clueless (to say it in the mildest form).
Thats exaclty what it means.
Of course it's an insult calling immoral any person not deserving, not to mention someone like Muhammad, sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam.
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I can't speak my opinion here but it's saddening what middle eastern atheists have to go through
That's a major reason why Muslims are mistrusted in the West and it will continue like this as long as the extremist Islamists are dominant.
Why wouldn’t you be able to speak your opinion *here*?
A Muslim majority sub .. many will find what I'll say offensive
He’s Albanian
Albania didn't arrest him
There are contradicting views about the age of Hazrat Ayesha (R.A),and that marriage has to be seen in a lot of context and it's just not a simple matter.Many scholars have explained it and you'll understand it if only you're open to sense. Arresting that guy wasn't the good decision and he should've been answered properly by a scholar.
If you are open to sense you would know that Aisha was a child when she was married.. Scholars made up baseless excuses later to deny the claims about Aisha. Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again and Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam therefore chronologically she was a child when she married. It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology. Edit: Adamos blocked me so I can't reply but about what he said contradicts with chronology. Aisha being born before islam isn't possible while he divorced from his first wife after beginning of islam and his wife refusing islam and then them divorcing are more than enough to see the reason but that doesn't even matter because in the end Aisha didn't born from his first marriage so she was born after islam and obviously marrying and getting pregnant and giving birth take times too.
> Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again Abu Bakr was married to several women during his lifetime, and two of his wives are well-documented: Qutaylah bint Abd-al-Uzza and Umm Ruman. Qutaylah, Abu Bakr's first wife, did not accept Islam, and they were separated before the migration to Medina, but there is no solid evidence that suggests the reason for their separation was her refusal to convert to Islam. > Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam Aisha was born from his marriage to Umm Ruman, not as a result of a second marriage following a religiously motivated divorce. Aisha was born well before the proclamation of Islam, and both of her parents, Abu Bakr and Umm Ruman, later became Muslims. > therefore chronologically she was a child when she married. Chronologically, she was engaged to a Non Muslim — Jubayr ibn Mut'im. The family of Jubayr ibn Mut'im did not convert to Islam, leading to the dissolution of the engagement. > It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology. It is entirely possible.
Aisha bint Abu Bakr was likely born after the proclamation of Islam. The exact date of her birth is not definitively known, but it is generally believed to have been after the advent of Islam.
The problem with Turkish Islamic scholars is that the fact that they are not fluent in Arabic to understand it properly. They can’t understand metaphors etc. Even the head of directorate of religious affairs was caught on live TV reading a preyed in Arabic written with Turkish characters in to his hand. Which suggest that he can’t even read Arabic properly. He is supposed to be the among the best religious scholars in the country. He is more known for his love for his armored Mercedes and love of organizing Islamic events in 5 star hotel rather than promoting modesties as Islam suggests.
https://islamqa.org/hanafi/jamia-binoria/233412/insulting-and-offensive-words-to-disgrace-our-prophet-muhammad-%ef%b7%ba/
Terrible decisions people should be free!
It wasn't his claim. He used sahih bukhari as a source.
Was that all he did?
Not right, it's Bukhari and Muslim making these claims. These books are confirmed as 'reliable' by your diyanet as well.
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What could be wrong with reading a hadith? Turkey is a secular republic, and the freedom of thought of every citizen should be protected. If every criticism of Islam is silenced, there will be no freedom left.
Can someone please say was Prophet Muhammed married to Hz Aişe when she was 6 and he made love with her when she was 9? Turkish conservatives claim that in the past, among Arab girls, their age began to be counted after they reached puberty. So they say that Hz. Aişe was 17 years old when she was married to prophet. Is it true or not can Arap people answer it? Thanks.
Yeah its true back then the average person lifespan didn't go above 30 years and when people hit puberty they would get married so they can have children quickly. Plus people back then mentally matured quicker than now due to the harsh life.
Muhammad married his first wife when she was 40, if age in women really was counted from puberty she would have been around 52 years old at the time. So how was she able to give Muhammad 6 children?
Actually, the age of Khadijah at her marriage to Muhammad is traditionally cited as 40 years old, but this is based on Islamic historical sources and not on a concept of counting age from puberty. In ancient Arabia, there wasn't a uniform method for calculating age as we have today. Medically, while it's less common, women can have children in their later years, particularly prior to menopause, which varies from woman to woman. Khadijah having children with Muhammad after the age of 40 is entirely plausible, as women can remain fertile into their early 50s, albeit fertility rates significantly decline as they age. Thus, while it’s less common, it’s not impossible and would not necessarily contradict historical accounts.
It contradicts with science and historical accounts. Muhammed had multiple children with her and she would close to 60 if counting age from puberty excuse was true which makes it bullshit because even this age with advanced technology and help women having children close to 60 is like miracle. Also people going with islamic historical sources about age for traditional counting or counting age from puberty to deny Aisha marrying with him as child is funny and doesn't hold any water for this baseless argument. About your other reply what you said contradicts with chronology. Aisha being born before islam isn't possible while he divorced from his first wife after beginning of islam and his wife refusing islam and then them divorcing are more than enough to see the reason but that doesn't even matter because in the end Aisha didn't born from his first marriage so she was born after islam and obviously marrying and getting pregnant and giving birth take times too. It seems like you are just another one who believe what you want to believe while ignoring facts and not being objective which makes arguing with you futile.
That's a bullshit argument. That 30 years thing is purely based on the mortality rate. Not at what age people actually died. A lot of people died in many ways especially at a young age due to diseases etc. If you divide the amount of people that died by their age you would get 30, but it's not like they dropped dead at that age. People grew old like today to like at least 60.
I watched the video in question... In the part in question, he was reading the part written in a book, most of its not his own thoughts.
You know.... there are just as many historical hadeeths that Aisha herself put her age much older. How come no one seems to pick up on those. She could have been 18 when she married Mohammad.
Could you list them out if you don't mind? I genuinely wanna learn about this
That is not true becaue Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again and Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam therefore chronologically she was a child when she married. It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology. Edit: Adamos blocked me so I can't reply but about what he said contradicts with chronology. Aisha being born before islam isn't possible while he divorced from his first wife after beginning of islam and his wife refusing islam and then them divorcing are more than enough to see the reason but that doesn't even matter because in the end Aisha didn't born from his first marriage so she was born after islam and obviously marrying and getting pregnant and giving birth take times too.
> Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again Abu Bakr was married to several women during his lifetime, and two of his wives are well-documented: Qutaylah bint Abd-al-Uzza and Umm Ruman. Qutaylah, Abu Bakr's first wife, did not accept Islam, and they were separated before the migration to Medina, but there is no solid evidence that suggests the reason for their separation was her refusal to convert to Islam. > Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam Aisha was born from his marriage to Umm Ruman, not as a result of a second marriage following a religiously motivated divorce. Aisha was born well before the proclamation of Islam, and both of her parents, Abu Bakr and Umm Ruman, later became Muslims. > therefore chronologically she was a child when she married. Chronologically, she was engaged to a Non Muslim — Jubayr ibn Mut'im. The family of Jubayr ibn Mut'im did not convert to Islam, leading to the dissolution of the engagement. > It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology. It is entirely possible.
This is the wrong way to combat misinformation, using violence and arrests will only suppress their voices but not change their views, challenging their views directly with facts and debates and logic is a more effective way of removing misinformation from their minds, we should never use violence for arrogant people, it would only make things worse
Why do believe this is misinformation? Genuine question
It is not directly misinformation but it is a misunderstanding that people have where they compare today’s morals and the morals of people from a really long time ago which is unfair and illogical.
God's moral law transcends time
That is irrelevant what the Prophet did was correct based on his time period and we should apply the same things in our lives in a conceptual manner. That means that if the Prophet did something appropriate for his time period we should do the things appropriate in ours in the same ways he did.
So, the time period is a greater indicator of morality than the Prophet's actions.
That is not what I said. If it was customary to chew with your mouth open 1400 years ago and the Prophet did that and now it is considered disgusting you don’t have to chew with your mouth open. Circumstances change and to an extent we must adapt. If the Prophet said you have to marry a six year old then it would be different, but he never told us to do that. The things he said we must do we do. The Prophet would not tell us to do something that is impossible to achieve or wrong to do later and that is why he didn’t make everything he did fard on us.
It is definitely immoral in today's standards, just how like slavery and the lack of women rights is immortal in today's standards. Back then, however, the standards were different
so Allah’s morals change from time to time? before it was moral to marry a kid but now it is not?
If you are asking from a faith-based perspective, then I cannot answer that as I am not an adherent of Islam. From an abstract perspective, what is right and what is wrong change overtime, whether it be morals and ethics such as slavery, or it be science such as the states of matter (when I was in high school there were 3: solid, liquid, and gas. Now they are 5)
I perfectly agree. I just see a lot of muslims using the same rethoric and not perceiving how incompatible it is with their dogmas.
But I thought Mohamed was supposed to be 100% perfekt ?
He is
Yarramı he is
It was immoral, even if he is our prophet, people can't deny this.
It is immoral by today’s standards. You cannot place your morals on someone from 1400 years ago where the times were completely different. In the USA, for example, the age of consent in 1880 in most places was 10 or 12 and one state even had 7. This would never be commented on because it’s stupid to say that we live in the same circumstances as they did. Following the law of the USA in 1880 should by your logic make you immoral, but this was the agreed age back then as it was 1400 years ago. Do not slander the actions of the Prophet because you can’t comprehend the subjectivity of morals and circumstances.
Marrying 6 year olds wasn't common even millenia ago.
Again the age of consent in the USA was quite literally 7 in one state not even 200 years ago. The 18 year old age of consent that was standardized is a very modern thing.
It being 7 in the law didn't mean that parents married their kids at that age often.
Historians would like to disagree with you.
Wouldn’t historians like to have a a conversation would you.
Brother, that doesn't change the fact that he married a 9 year old. By the us south's standart slavery was okay up until the civil war, does that excuse slavery as moral for their time??
The US had slavery a long time after other countries the US communicated with had deemed it morally wrong and the south still insisted on it which makes them wrong by much of the world’s morals at the time. The 18 year old age of consent that many countries now use is a very modern concept and back then the globally accepted age of consent was significantly lower. Had this been a very isolated example of the age of consent being lower than the modern one your argument may have merit but that’s not the case.
People deny that everything that supposed to be hersay about the prophet and written 200 years after his death are true
If he wanted to offend people the arrest is right. If he was sincere it’s not right.
I have watched the original video in Turkish there was no insult
change his opinion, if you think its wrong
Nothing gonna happen. This kind of things are usual for Turkey.
I respect freedom of speech + he's irrelevant and I already forgot his name.
censorship is never good, on any side. The way to deal with this is to show him the correct information rather than arresting him for it.
For the record, the aḥādīth that say he did marry ʿĀʾishah when she was 6 and consummated at 9 are forgeries and false. See [the following](https://islamicorigins.com/the-unabridged-version-of-my-phd-thesis/).
Saw his video by chance on youtube and i gotta say i hate this dude so much before that incident, And he looks like a girl i thought he was a trans-woman , **However according to other historical sources such as** ***Al-Nawawi, Ibn Kathir and Ibn Hisham,*** **Asma who is Aisha's sister, was 10 years older than Aisha**. She died at the age of 100 around in 73AH or 695AD. Asma was born in 596AD and **was 14 years old when Islam began**. Aisha would have been 4 when Islam began in 610AD. This means Aisha would have been born in 606AD. At the time of migration Asma would have been around 27 years old. If Aisha was 10 years younger than her, then she would have been around 17 years old during the migration and thus **18 years old during the marriage a year later**. Or if other narrations are correct then she would have been 14-15 when she was married and **17-18 when the marriage was consummated a year after the migration in 623AD.**
A idea of nuke middle east entirely suddenly occur in my mind whenever I saw comments in this sub.
Most moral human rights activist kemalist
You can hate a guy morally just because he have long hair and you misjudged him with your few braincells as a trans. What kind of human are you I'm disgusted about you. This is you, you can eat every shit about human rights but whenever a human find out what you are. HUUU kEmALiSts vIoLAte OuR hUmAn RiGhTs. Humans who respected others rights have human rights not you.
Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again and Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam therefore chronologically she was a child when she married. It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology. Edit: Adamos blocked me so I can't reply but about what he said contradicts with chronology. Aisha being born before islam isn't possible while he divorced from his first wife after beginning of islam and his wife refusing islam and then them divorcing are more than enough to see the reason but that doesn't even matter because in the end Aisha didn't born from his first marriage so she was born after islam and obviously marrying and getting pregnant and giving birth take times too.
> Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again Abu Bakr was married to several women during his lifetime, and two of his wives are well-documented: Qutaylah bint Abd-al-Uzza and Umm Ruman. Qutaylah, Abu Bakr's first wife, did not accept Islam, and they were separated before the migration to Medina, but there is no solid evidence that suggests the reason for their separation was her refusal to convert to Islam. > Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam Aisha was born from his marriage to Umm Ruman, not as a result of a second marriage following a religiously motivated divorce. Aisha was born well before the proclamation of Islam, and both of her parents, Abu Bakr and Umm Ruman, later became Muslims. > therefore chronologically she was a child when she married. Chronologically, she was engaged to a Non Muslim — Jubayr ibn Mut'im. The family of Jubayr ibn Mut'im did not convert to Islam, leading to the dissolution of the engagement. > It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology. It is entirely possible.
Is being trans supposed to be an insult? What kind of person are you? Why do you enjoy insulting others? Is your life that bad that you need to pull others down so you feel better with yourself?
I hate this dude for no reason he doesnt just have the acceptance nothing to do with him being a trans or not i just stated the fact he does look trans or queer No Hate here what so ever ! If he's a trans i dont hate him for it
There's no reason to believe that he is part of a sexual or gender minority, you are just using that because you consider it humiliating, that's why you said he looked trans (because for many it is an abomination). You thrive on hate and division, may God forgive you because you have no idea of the things you say.
may God forgive you... Pal homosexuality is a sin and Taking a trait of the opposite gender in all religions and the guy literally insulted prophet muhammad pbuh and i am a muslim what should i do ? And i swear i thought the guy was trans or a girl at first , Dont get into gender politics and dont be very sensitive about it if you are queer yourself and i swear i don't hate you what soo ever
He doesn't look too different from the guys i saw while visiting Egypt, only major difference is a lighter skin tone.... Are all hotel resort workers and men in Hurghada city gay/trans???
" Are all hotel resort workers and men in Hurghada city gay/trans???" Lol may be :D
Im not the one insulting others for being different. Don't dare calling on God, God isn't a scapegoat to justify your hate
You right i apologize i must never use god's name to justify a comment and i didn't insult anyone just because i misgendered him isn't an insult it's a mistake not hate, You're the one who is assuming since i labelled him a trans it must be derogatory On the contradict
Isnt it a lie?
No...
Fairly sure it is She was 16, it was just culture back then to count the age of the girl from when she got her period
No it is not. Abu Bakr divorced his first wife when she didn't become muslim and then he married again and Aisha was born in his second marriage so Aish was born a few years after Muhammad's declaration of islam therefore chronologically she was a child when she married. It is impossible that she was adult because of chronology.
What about cousin marriage?That’s gross
You are comparing 20th century norms to 600 ad
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Minister of Justice of Turkey tweeted that there is a "Yakalama kararı" on his behalf meaning he will be arrested the moment he comes to Turkey. He will most likely be jailed for 4 days.
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Erdogan is Arab???
[SHE WAS 19 THEY KEEP CHANGING HER AGE FROM 12 TO 9 TO 6 I AM SICK OF THESE LIES](https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/hazrat-aisha-was-19-not-9/story-G4kaBHqM0VXoBhLR0eI2oO.html)
>hindustantimes brother eww. no she was 6 when he married her and 9 when he actually slept with her.
Despite that particular link, if you look at the dates of hadith, or those who did the calculations it seems impossible that she was actually 6. Why did people think she was 6? Iirc (not a hadith scholar, but from recollection) because she said that in old age. Old people get confused. On the other hand, if she was 6, a lot of other hadith would have to be incorrect.
its what is famous amoung all muslims from that time up until this day. i dont get where the 19 number come from? can you provide any evidence to that?
Well, in the link they show one of the arguments, but here is another link done by an actual scholar: [https://hawramani.com/aisha-age-of-marriage-to-prophet-muhammad-study/](https://hawramani.com/aisha-age-of-marriage-to-prophet-muhammad-study/) You can read the entire list of arguments, which handle both positions. At the time the Hadith were assembled, I think they were more concerned with noting them down and making sure the chains are good. So they just went "6? Fine" But some people noticed the discrepancies later on
that is fine, you can find all types of arguments but what is widly accepted amoung muslims is that she is 9.
God is infallible, humans, Muslim or not, are not. That is why we have minds and math and all manner of good things
FR MAN 😭
No she was not. At least be honest buharis hadiths are the most certain ones. She was 9 when she got married. You could argue by saying that people at that time were getting much faster older or like "she has married the best person ever ". But she was 9 according to one of the most trustworthy sunni Muslim sources
Yes just because it's a trustworthy source and there's source countering it I MUST pick him. Also I am not sunni
If you are not sunni you're not even a real Muslim in my eyes as I don't care what you believe.
Congrats you're like the 80th person to takfir shias I've seen on this site . Quite a milestone but anyways u can choose to ignore the source but feel free to change your mind anytime
The actual explanation of that hadith is that despite it being sahih, it's a hadith related to purely recording an event. It's practically inconsequential to practicing the deen.
Yes i think its right because that arguement has been refuted and debunked many times
Idk but the picture with lots of books means he read alot maybe but who taught him how to understand and know facts and other things ☺ Someone who doesn't know Arab customs may say that. Yes u can promise marry you daughter if u want but u can't force her. Promise to get married is different than consuming the marriage ☺. I know some people from over a century or more who have married when they became an adult maybe 12 years old or more and they were happy and the family too. BTW, did you know that Europe maybe over 400 years didn't give inheritance to women as I have heard from old Europeans who live there and know their real history. So many things in history will be revealed in the future and I hope we can learn lessons from that ☺ BTW whats the age of becoming an adult in Islam?
Lock him up
You need to be locked up you fanatic.
He is an Albanian citizen, nothing will happen to him as long as he doesn't go back to Turkey.
Yes. If I promoted communism in US and bashed democracy , I will be arrsted to..
No lmao you won’t. You would’ve 40 years ago tho.
Maybe in the 1950-60s