I'm actually of the super unpopular opinion that S2 was *peak* Parks and Rec. The soft reboot from S3 on never quite measured up, for me.
Don't get me wrong- I love the whole series (yes, even the final season in the "future" and, honestly, even season 1). And I love what Ben and Chris ultimately brought to the table, and how the story developed beyond the original small town government. But there was something special about that second season, where things were *just* grounded enough to feel real while also being entertainingly over-the-top. The characters came into their own, but hadn't yet been Flanderized. It really was damn near perfect.
Season 3 was a close, close second, but Season 2 will always be my my favorite.
I tried watching the show twice before giving up. Years later someone I know loved the show said I should watch. I explained that I had tried. She said "Just start at Season 3" so I did. I now love that show. Never seen the first two seasons other than the first 5 or 6 epsiodes.
Gina is one of the worst characters among all the commonly loved comedy series. She was clearly written specifically for the Tumblr crowd of that era, and I'm still not clear on how much love for the character was organic vs completely forced by the show. Every time she makes an appearance the writing can't wait to tell you what a beloved character she is.
And never calls her out on it. Whenever Gina does a crappy thing, or says some pretty awful stuff, the rest of the characters go "Oh wow Gina you were right, all hail Gina!".
The closest it came to another character getting angry at Gina for her shitty behaviour is in season 7? (I think?) where Gina returns for a cameo episode. >!She's now a famous influencer who gets Jake to investigate a stalker or something, and lies to him when she once again bails on a planned fun catch up with her friend (she even throws her totally innocent PA under the bus and fires her to keep up the ruse). When busted, Jake does get really pissed, but even then at the end of the episode HE APOLOGISES TO HER for the fight and says he can't stay mad at her, even though SHE was the one who consistently ghosted and ditched him and the last minute!!<
If Gina rrallybwas written to be this narcissistic douche with delusions of grandeur that is meant to be mocked by audiences, then the show, despite otherwise being an amazing watch, does a very piss poor job of it.
He had the hottest wife in the world, a loving family, a massive dick, lived to be over 100 spending half his life as beloved mayor of his hometown.
That’s great compensation for some mean coworkers.
The whole reason that it works is that he's totally oblivious to how mean they are to him and he's profoundly happy. He loves his job and he loves his life. He's by far the happiest character overall.
I feel like once Mark left, the show got much better. What a terrible character.
Nothing against Paul Schneider, he’s great, just that the character was written poorly.
One of Ron's funniest episodes imo.
"You know, Leslie, the Superbowl is in a couple months.... maybe you could come by at halftime and shoot me in the head"
People who are the biggest fans of that show always say that, so I take it as merit there.
I liked it, but just alright. I felt it drifted from what hooked me in, which was a semi realistic setting of a work place. This holds for The Office too. As both series went on, they drifted from people just getting though their work days, to wacky friends getting into the regular sitcom tropes.
That's to say, I liked the first season the best, and found the show to worsen a little each season. A whole lot of Flanderization occured to every character. The Office, as a comparison, had a much more sudden drop off in interest for me.
I've had this explained to me as writers don't typically have "regular" jobs, and have a hard time grasping what people related to regarding a work environment. Everyone ends up being "found family" instead of the weird waking dream world of 9 to 5 working life.
I feel like this is the most obvious answer. We watched the first few episodes, dropped it, then picked it up again later when several friends insisted we give it another try.
It began as just a ripoff of The Office. Nearly every Parks and Rec character was just an imitation of one from The Office: Leslie was a female Michael Scott, Mark was Jim Halpert Lite, etc. It wasn't until about halfway through Season 2 that P&R started to develop its own identity, and it really took off once Ben Wyatt and Chris Traeger were added as characters.
First time I watched it, I started with the second season and binged it. Then I tried rewatching from Season 1, and it took me months to get through that season.
It's so painful.
Star Trek is so hard to get people into cuz their first seasons are weak across the board. I say this as somebody who loves the franchise deeply, but its true. Enterprise definitely isn't my favorite trek show but its first season hits its stride earlier than the others in my opinion.
It is literally the source of the TV trope that matches the question, "[growing the beard](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrowingTheBeard)"
I feel Voyager has the strongest first season of those three shows though. It definitely gets better, but it's not nearly as rough as the first seasons of TNG and DS9
DS9 was my favorite show of the franchise. The story, the aesthetics, the characters, everything was part of the universe, but different enough to be unique.
It wasn’t bad but the Rose family on Schitts Creek was pretty unlikeable in season 1. I had to convince a couple of friends to stick with it because the reward of seeing all those people grow was fabulous
This is the answer I was looking for. My wife and I tried the show once and hated it after 4 or 5 episodes. A couple of friends convinced us to try again and give it a full season or two.
Now I’m a little bit Alexis and she’s learning how to fold in the cheese.
I agree completely but that was also kind of the point of the show. They aren't great people because they've always had excessive amounts of money and bought all of their friends with either literal money or status.
They get better and more likeable as they adjust to not having money and needing to work hard.
Oh man this is probably an unpopular opinion but I feel the opposite! I loved how unlikable they were at first, thought it was hilarious. Sure it was good to see them learn and grow but by the end it felt almost like a hallmark movie to me, like it was just overly lovey-dovey for me. I wanted it to be a little more in the Larry David style of “no hugging, no learning” since that was kind of the vibe of season 1.
Yea the first few episodes the characters were so bad I almost gave up on it. Towards the end of season 1 the characters become way more like able and the show takes off.
Had I not been told by others how much it improves towards the end of season 1 I’d have probably quit midway through the first season.
It took me so long to finally get moira's character, My ex would have it on and I would watch it in passing and roll my eyes at her theatrics. They my current gf had me watch the bosnian season and she won me over.
I don't begrudge anyone who passes on a show where people say "you gotta get past the first six episodes...", but it's *absolutely* worth it for Bojack Horseman.
If I remember correctly, Indiewire or Metacritic changed how they review TV shows because of how different the 2nd half of the 1st season of BoJack was
Yep. It was Netflix’s first foray into animation and so it started off pretty broad humored. They basically had to make it a family guy ripoff because that’s all that was out there. I still enjoyed it but it gets soooo much better when it finds its groove.
I would personally recommend watching the season one recap trailer and starting with season two.
If the tonal shift happened between seasons than mid season I would agree but it happens mid season which made it so much more impactful to the point where I think it must have been intentional, bring them in with a goofy kinda dark humoured show about talking animals and then sucker punch them half way through with >!a dying man refusing to accept the apology of a friend who betrayed him decades earlier!<
Would that have felt the same if I knew from episode 1 it was gonna hit that hard?
I mean, the pilot was just cutaway gags, cotton candy vomiting, and extremely lowbrow sex jokes. That’s was “adult animation” was in the early 2010s. The show proves it could do wacky lighthearted jokes that were clever but that’s not how they got their foot in the door.
It took me years to get around to finishing Bojack because I watch the first few episodes and hated it. Eventually, I was convinced by my partner at the time to give it another shot, and it's a masterpiece. Not the easiest watch, in all honesty, but it's probably the most realistic depiction of tragic self-destruction and depression I've witnessed.
“Congratulations. Princess Carol. You are 40”
I think it’s this episode where the show really starts to show it’s colors, and it’s really good contextually in this moment.
The difference in quality between the beginning and the end of Star Wars: The Clone Wars is staggering. Went from being the worst part of the Star Wars franchise to arguably the best part. Legends of Tomorrow, Agents of SHIELD, Person of Interest and Black Sails are a few other examples, although they were all decent enough to start with
Start with season 3, 1 and 2 might have a few episodes for story purposes, but 3 I believe is where the makers started their advance into better territories.
Person of Interest is interesting in that the first season, while interesting, wasn't really Jonathan Nolan's vision for the show. He made it the mostly episodic procedural for CBS execs, but was given more leeway in later seasons to make the actual in-depth analysis of AI, surveillance, and individuality that he'd originally wanted.
The real awesome thing is that as the show goes on it goes those early episodes into the fabric of the story in really cool ways. It stands as one of my favourite shows of all time and for a short while held three (maybe four?) of the top ten highest rated episodes on IMDB ever
Spartacus started off as a low budget 300. As the first season went on, they figured out how to do fights in their own style and the actual story got really good.
Yeah, the crazy part for me was that Gods of the Arena was supposed to be a flashback that introduced characters for season 2. Whitfield's cancer diagnosis made them expand upon that and we got 6 episode half-season of the show.
Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
It was cursed by having to do monster of the week episodes for the first half of the season. Then Captain America: The Winter Soldier happened and it tied in with the show and everything changed.
i was coming in here to say this exact thing... They had to sit in a holding pattern of sorts until the movie dropped and after that it just got better and better. (Season 4 was their best)
I did like how they laid a lot of threads during the monster of the week episode, and some finally resolved themselves years later.
Season 3 was my favourite. But this is a big debate with a lot of variance.
The TV show was not privy to what was going on in the movies so the S.H.I.E.L.D writers didn't have the snap in their storyline and it didn't jibe with movie canon
Agents of SHIELD is such a weird thing for me. When I first watched it, those first 15 episodes or so really didn’t grab me at all. I almost gave up on the show entirely, but held out long enough for the Winter Soldier tie-in to change my mind completely. It eventually became one of my all-time favorite shows…
That said, when I go back to rewatch it, I actually really love those first episodes now. They were needed in order to make the Winter Soldier twist hit as hard as it did. It’s also fun to see everybody starting off, all fresh and new, knowing where they end up later.
All the character elements are there, and everyone played off each other so well. I was happy with a monster of the week type show as well.
Agents of SHIELD is still the best Marvel show.
that Winter Soldier twist was one of the coolest crossover events I've ever seen.
Unbelievable that they were able to time the season perfectly so the twist episode dropped immediately after the movie came out
I both agree with this and disagree with it. I liked the new theme of the week, but I also liked the tie in. I definitely agree the show got much stronger after The Winter Soldier events happened tho
Yea it went from decent to fantastic after Winter Soldier. It became a lot of fun after that movie. I’m amazed how good of a show they came up with from a concept of “what if we resurrected Coulson”.
Thats because it was. Greg Daniels and Michael Shur were at the helm of P&R, coming right off working on The Office.
There are so many parallels because the show pretty much started out as a spiritual successor. Once they realized that wasn't working, they hard pivoted and the show got so much better.
It had a little cult following during its release, but since it was cancelled instead of getting an ending it won't really have long term hope of being watched.
Dirk Gently is in my top 10 favourite shows of all time. I wish more people knew about it. I convinced a friend to watch it and he still thanks me every year when he rebinges it.
It didn't start off BAD per se, and it's genuinely my favorite show of all time. But the first few episodes of True Blood were hard to get into until you accepted it for what it was. Goofy, horny vampires with awful southern accents.
Blackadder season 1 is a steaming dog turd in comparison to every other season after it. With each season Edmund Blackadder loses rank and status, but gets smarter and more cunning.
Otoh, Brian Blessed.
I think the overarching theme of the show is that upper class twits who inherit everything are idiots. It makes sense that the lower Blackadder goes, the slyer he gets.
Absolutely. Season one was often cringeworthy. The Humor felt forced and everybody is playing a different kind of idiot. But the later seasons were so much better. In todays TV market it would not have survived season one.
It’s always sunny in Philly. It wasn’t bad at first but it took them a while to find their feet and work out exactly what it was trying to be. If I remember right I think Dennis admitted in the podcast that the turning point was around season 3 when things just started clicking
Stargate Universe—really rough start, picks up towards end of S1, S2 is quite good, and then it was cancelled sadly, although the ending would support a reboot.
Halfway through season 2 SGU suddenly started hitting all the right notes. Forcing them to be on the run, encountering the civilisation their alternate selves started, encountering and looting another Destiny from the future iirc... it had some great plots, but unfortunately the first season made so many mistakes...
Season 1 had to do all the world building and setup. Plus back then serialized storytelling was rarely done. So they had to introduce it slowly. And yes, production wise that first season is rough given the shoestring budget.
But there’s a charm to that first season and going back I like how rough it feels. It really has that “city in space” vibe that later seasons don’t have.
For me, the Londo and G'kar dynamic was the most interesting and captivating part of the series. Hats off to Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas.
The CGI and the space shadows plots were fine, but watching Londo and G'kar chewing the set was something else.
My friend tells me to start in Season 2, and then when I love them to go back and watch Season 1. But I just can't convince myself to watch it out of order, so I've seen episode 1 and 2.
The first handful of Expanse episodes can be a real struggle to get thru. The early detective stuff is boring AF. Ive known several people who gave up on that show before coming back and forcing their way thru those first episodes.
The consensus with The Expanse is if you can make it to CQB you’re good. If you don’t like it after that episode it’s just not going to be your cup of tea. My wife hates sci-fi but I forced her to get to that point. Afterwards I won’t say she loved it but I also didn’t have to force her to watch it anymore.
I never felt this at all. The first episode was a little slow, but by the second or third episode there’s a massive shootout and getaway and the plot just keeps chugging from there.
This! For me the 1st season was ok. I like sci fi and futuristic stuff so i liked how the show depicted the Interstellar civilization but at the same time all the politics was kinda going over my head. The detective stuff was also ok.. and i was kinda invested in Julie mao..but then i saw how that ended in s1. That was just disappointing. The protomolecule stuff was interesting but again nothing "new" .. and wasn't interesting for me to pick up the show for the 2nd season. So i gave up on the show for years probably.
But then i picked up the 2nd season randomly.. i was bored, and i still kept seeing amazing reviews by people, i wanted to see what the deal is. Aaand the rest was history. I was hooked. It just got better and better. And now I'm disappointed we dont get more seasons.. considering the story hasn't ended. Still I'm satisfied enough with how the individual stories ended.
Arguable as to how terrible it is in vacuum, but for me: the Magicians. The first season is mostly trying to be kinda gritty and dark and too self serious. As it goes on it really learns the right tone and becomes one of my favorite shows of all time, but that first season is a little bit of a slog still for me.
Dc legends of tomorrow. Started of as a copy of the flash in the first season. After that the writers realised it would be more fun to just do LSD and see what funky things they can come up with
It arguably became terrible later on , but that show started great and was consistently great for the first 4 or 5 seasons. Then they started making movies, then the revival without Clattenberg, bringing in celebrity guest stars, recycling ideas, and now they're continuing without Jon Dunsworth, and it's just not the same.
I like all 6/7 original seasons (aside that one where they couldn't film in an actual park that was kind rough).
All the revival / netflix stuff isn't very good though.
At the beginning they were trying to be like UK Office, which worked for that as a cringe British mockumentary
When they found their rhythm as a sitcom with more US humour they seemed to find their feet
I think part of it is that Steve Carrel is just such a goofy, likable personality. He was somewhat miscast to play an edgier/dickish character. That came a lot more easily to someone like Ricky Gervais. Steve Carrel is so hard to dislike that even when he’s being an obnoxious weirdo you still kinda want to root for him. I think the writers realized that pretty quickly after season 1 and tweaked Michael’s character to reflect more of Steve’s natural charisma, then the rest just fell into place.
Yep good point I think part of the UK appeal was a lot of Brits have worked in offices with a Brent like boss or manager, and worked head down in quiet despair, whereas the American attitude is more optimistic and managers shown respect
People always say that but Diversity Day was the *second* episode and it's highly regarded, and (I'd argue) Health Care is also a classic.
The pilot is the only episode I would consider subpar, and the rest of Season 1 isn't bad, just mildly mediocre with some good lines. There's only six episodes. That's not a bad ratio.
Yeah, it got a lot better once they stopped doing books-on-film and started making a television show.
Book Q makes for a more interesting protagonist because the reader has his internal monologue. On screen, Eliot and ~~Janet~~Margo were much more interesting characters, and the show really improved once the showrunners realized that.
The Bear. I didn’t finish it the first time I attempted to watch it but the second time I was hooked by mid season. Season 2 is undoubtedly better than the first.
Wandavision. The first two episodes were just.... blah...... but after the third, we were hooked. Excellent show if you were into the marvel lore/universe. We used to spend HOURS, discussing the plot of that week's episode and theories about what would happen next. Loved it. But it did start dreadful.
Angel also had trouble finding it's footing and figuring out exactly what it was, and had only a tiny main cast to work with. It definitely gets good somewhere in season 2 as they added more characters and settled on a tone, and I consider its last season its best (we don't talk about season 4.)
Torchwood.
Man season 1 was very ropey. A handful of decent episodes but the rest was really hard to sit through. Season 2 was much better, clearer narrative, more consistent etc.
Season 3 - Children of Earth was stellar. Top class sci-fi. Would almost say sci-fi horror based purely on concept.
Meanwhile Season 4, as I've heard, is pretty rank.
The Americans was boring AF for about 2/3 through the first season while they did character and plot development. The entire rest of the 7-series run is some of the best TV of the decade.
Technically not really the start, but rather a re-start...
Doctor Who 2005.
The first episode was horrible when it comes to acting and the special effects. It was an extremely hard watch and I haven't been warned about it with the promise to get better soon I would have stopped right then and there.
Episode 2 and 3 were ok, still a little goofy with the weird costumes and special effects but rather charming. The farting aliens in 4 and 5 almost chased me away again... Just with episode 6 (Dalek) it's where you really feel the kinda weight that show can have. 7 and 8 also being much better than the stuff before to be followed by a total banger with the "the empty child" and "the doctor dances" double header...
By then I was hooked and even a short return by the farting aliens couldn't harm my love for the show any more.
What irritated me about that show was that they maintained the charade of Mike not having a law degree for so long. Like, it's not even that much of a thing to have to fix. They could easily have just kept him on as a 'consultant' then used their connections to get him into a law program and have him sit the exams, pass, then rejoin the firm as an associate. There was no actual need to put themselves in that much legal trouble.
I wasn’t that bothered by that tbh. I was bothered by Jessica’s whole “girlboss” attitude and her being mean to other women. I’m glad they gave her more depth and she became close to Donna and Rachel, rather than intimating them all the time. It was boring that way.
I feel like they must have added some actual women to the writers room for that show over time because their default for 'strong woman' was basically just 'narcissistic asshole' for a long while.
Parks and Rec wasn't *terrible*, but it wasn't good. It took a while for them to hit their stride.
Was going to say the same thing, the show really improved with Chris and Ben.
I'd argue it falls right into its peak at the start of season 2. The gay penguins and Venezuela sister city happen right at the start there.
The Camel is season 2. Real confidence there.
I'm actually of the super unpopular opinion that S2 was *peak* Parks and Rec. The soft reboot from S3 on never quite measured up, for me. Don't get me wrong- I love the whole series (yes, even the final season in the "future" and, honestly, even season 1). And I love what Ben and Chris ultimately brought to the table, and how the story developed beyond the original small town government. But there was something special about that second season, where things were *just* grounded enough to feel real while also being entertainingly over-the-top. The characters came into their own, but hadn't yet been Flanderized. It really was damn near perfect. Season 3 was a close, close second, but Season 2 will always be my my favorite.
That is *literally* what I was going to say.
*licherally*
That's when the show grew its beard.
I tried watching the show twice before giving up. Years later someone I know loved the show said I should watch. I explained that I had tried. She said "Just start at Season 3" so I did. I now love that show. Never seen the first two seasons other than the first 5 or 6 epsiodes.
They made the main cast a little less pointlessly mean
[удалено]
Except for Gina’s constant sexual harassment of Terry. I hated that.
Gina is one of the worst characters among all the commonly loved comedy series. She was clearly written specifically for the Tumblr crowd of that era, and I'm still not clear on how much love for the character was organic vs completely forced by the show. Every time she makes an appearance the writing can't wait to tell you what a beloved character she is.
The show obviously depicts her as someone who has delusions of grandeur.
And never calls her out on it. Whenever Gina does a crappy thing, or says some pretty awful stuff, the rest of the characters go "Oh wow Gina you were right, all hail Gina!". The closest it came to another character getting angry at Gina for her shitty behaviour is in season 7? (I think?) where Gina returns for a cameo episode. >!She's now a famous influencer who gets Jake to investigate a stalker or something, and lies to him when she once again bails on a planned fun catch up with her friend (she even throws her totally innocent PA under the bus and fires her to keep up the ruse). When busted, Jake does get really pissed, but even then at the end of the episode HE APOLOGISES TO HER for the fight and says he can't stay mad at her, even though SHE was the one who consistently ghosted and ditched him and the last minute!!< If Gina rrallybwas written to be this narcissistic douche with delusions of grandeur that is meant to be mocked by audiences, then the show, despite otherwise being an amazing watch, does a very piss poor job of it.
Except to Jerry or Gerry or whatever. That always bugged me.
He had the hottest wife in the world, a loving family, a massive dick, lived to be over 100 spending half his life as beloved mayor of his hometown. That’s great compensation for some mean coworkers.
Don't forget his timeshare in Muncie.
Why would someone get a timeshare in Muncie?
"...in Muncie?!"
And he was always home every night to be with his family. As he said he was truly blessed
Dammit Jerry, you just had to do your job, didn’t you?!
The gang trying to get into his Christmas party. The breakfast song. Gerry lived nobly, a good guy.
Except that he has this completely inexplicably amazing home life! That was such a master stroke from the writers.
The whole reason that it works is that he's totally oblivious to how mean they are to him and he's profoundly happy. He loves his job and he loves his life. He's by far the happiest character overall.
I thought he was aware of how happy ragging on him makes everyone, so he just rolls with it.
They also had the doctor reveal that he had a monster sized dong too
That's such a Gary thing to say
You mean Larry?
shut up Terry
Yep. Ben & Chris arriving saved the show. Mark leaving was also a plus because he just seemed to drag the show down.
Mark Brendana-quits
I feel like once Mark left, the show got much better. What a terrible character. Nothing against Paul Schneider, he’s great, just that the character was written poorly.
It started to hit its stride before he left. I think one of the first great episodes of that show is the hunting episode.
One of Ron's funniest episodes imo. "You know, Leslie, the Superbowl is in a couple months.... maybe you could come by at halftime and shoot me in the head"
"Ron, you need to calm down." "No, I'm just going to go ahead and stay angry."
Was dying when she said boola boola boola? after Ron had been shot
And Andy was kind of a jerk in the beginning. It took a while for him to become a lovable doofus.
He was only supposed to be on for 1 season but they liked the actor too much.
All made up for in that 10 seconds where he didn’t have time to get a Halloween costume and aprils boyfriends dressed as straight guys.
Ron swanson was the best thing about the show!
People who are the biggest fans of that show always say that, so I take it as merit there. I liked it, but just alright. I felt it drifted from what hooked me in, which was a semi realistic setting of a work place. This holds for The Office too. As both series went on, they drifted from people just getting though their work days, to wacky friends getting into the regular sitcom tropes. That's to say, I liked the first season the best, and found the show to worsen a little each season. A whole lot of Flanderization occured to every character. The Office, as a comparison, had a much more sudden drop off in interest for me. I've had this explained to me as writers don't typically have "regular" jobs, and have a hard time grasping what people related to regarding a work environment. Everyone ends up being "found family" instead of the weird waking dream world of 9 to 5 working life.
I feel like this is the most obvious answer. We watched the first few episodes, dropped it, then picked it up again later when several friends insisted we give it another try.
It began as just a ripoff of The Office. Nearly every Parks and Rec character was just an imitation of one from The Office: Leslie was a female Michael Scott, Mark was Jim Halpert Lite, etc. It wasn't until about halfway through Season 2 that P&R started to develop its own identity, and it really took off once Ben Wyatt and Chris Traeger were added as characters.
This was my first thought too. Leslie was too unsure and timid. Once she went gangbusters the show got a lot better.
I seem to be one of the only ones who likes season one but I acknowledge I'm viewing it as a Amy Poehler fanboy and not objectively.
First time I watched it, I started with the second season and binged it. Then I tried rewatching from Season 1, and it took me months to get through that season. It's so painful.
Star Trek TNG
Star Trek is so hard to get people into cuz their first seasons are weak across the board. I say this as somebody who loves the franchise deeply, but its true. Enterprise definitely isn't my favorite trek show but its first season hits its stride earlier than the others in my opinion.
DS9, Lower Decks, and Strange New Worlds all arguably have very strong first seasons.
DS9 has a strong opener, very weak mid first season, and then finishes strong. It's uneven but not bad by any means yeah.
Every episode of lower decks is good.
It is literally the source of the TV trope that matches the question, "[growing the beard](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrowingTheBeard)"
I was gonna say this. That first season was ROUGH!
Had some good episodes though. Datalore, Conspiracy..
Gene Roddenberry stepped away from it, and they changed a lot of the writing staff.
Voyager and DS9 as well
I feel Voyager has the strongest first season of those three shows though. It definitely gets better, but it's not nearly as rough as the first seasons of TNG and DS9
Voyager definitely feels the more polished as far as sets and the graphics go, just shows the advancement of the technology used to create the show
DS9 was my favorite show of the franchise. The story, the aesthetics, the characters, everything was part of the universe, but different enough to be unique.
Revisionist history. DS9 and Voyager started off just fine. They got *better*, yes, but their initial seasons aren't bad by any means.
Duet is a 1st season episode of DS9 that stands amongst the best episodes of the whole serie.
Going through Season 1 right now after many, many years....Code of Honor... Wtf?
It wasn’t bad but the Rose family on Schitts Creek was pretty unlikeable in season 1. I had to convince a couple of friends to stick with it because the reward of seeing all those people grow was fabulous
This is the answer I was looking for. My wife and I tried the show once and hated it after 4 or 5 episodes. A couple of friends convinced us to try again and give it a full season or two. Now I’m a little bit Alexis and she’s learning how to fold in the cheese.
I can't show you *everything,* David.
Okay, well can you show me _one_ thing??
IT SAYS FOLD IT IN.
I agree completely but that was also kind of the point of the show. They aren't great people because they've always had excessive amounts of money and bought all of their friends with either literal money or status. They get better and more likeable as they adjust to not having money and needing to work hard.
Oh man this is probably an unpopular opinion but I feel the opposite! I loved how unlikable they were at first, thought it was hilarious. Sure it was good to see them learn and grow but by the end it felt almost like a hallmark movie to me, like it was just overly lovey-dovey for me. I wanted it to be a little more in the Larry David style of “no hugging, no learning” since that was kind of the vibe of season 1.
Yea the first few episodes the characters were so bad I almost gave up on it. Towards the end of season 1 the characters become way more like able and the show takes off. Had I not been told by others how much it improves towards the end of season 1 I’d have probably quit midway through the first season.
It took me so long to finally get moira's character, My ex would have it on and I would watch it in passing and roll my eyes at her theatrics. They my current gf had me watch the bosnian season and she won me over.
I don't begrudge anyone who passes on a show where people say "you gotta get past the first six episodes...", but it's *absolutely* worth it for Bojack Horseman.
If I remember correctly, Indiewire or Metacritic changed how they review TV shows because of how different the 2nd half of the 1st season of BoJack was
Yep. It was Netflix’s first foray into animation and so it started off pretty broad humored. They basically had to make it a family guy ripoff because that’s all that was out there. I still enjoyed it but it gets soooo much better when it finds its groove. I would personally recommend watching the season one recap trailer and starting with season two.
If the tonal shift happened between seasons than mid season I would agree but it happens mid season which made it so much more impactful to the point where I think it must have been intentional, bring them in with a goofy kinda dark humoured show about talking animals and then sucker punch them half way through with >!a dying man refusing to accept the apology of a friend who betrayed him decades earlier!< Would that have felt the same if I knew from episode 1 it was gonna hit that hard?
I mean, the pilot was just cutaway gags, cotton candy vomiting, and extremely lowbrow sex jokes. That’s was “adult animation” was in the early 2010s. The show proves it could do wacky lighthearted jokes that were clever but that’s not how they got their foot in the door.
It took me years to get around to finishing Bojack because I watch the first few episodes and hated it. Eventually, I was convinced by my partner at the time to give it another shot, and it's a masterpiece. Not the easiest watch, in all honesty, but it's probably the most realistic depiction of tragic self-destruction and depression I've witnessed.
“Congratulations. Princess Carol. You are 40” I think it’s this episode where the show really starts to show it’s colors, and it’s really good contextually in this moment.
40. And yeah, it hits real hard
Yeah, I agree with this one. It's one of my top 3 favorite shows. I love that it is both hilarious and philosophical.
So much so that the AV Club decided not to review it, then rescinded that with an explanation later on.
Vincent Adultman is one of the best bits of all time
The difference in quality between the beginning and the end of Star Wars: The Clone Wars is staggering. Went from being the worst part of the Star Wars franchise to arguably the best part. Legends of Tomorrow, Agents of SHIELD, Person of Interest and Black Sails are a few other examples, although they were all decent enough to start with
Fuck, this answer explains a lot. I have bounced off this show like a half dozen times but keep having it recommended to me.
Start with season 3, 1 and 2 might have a few episodes for story purposes, but 3 I believe is where the makers started their advance into better territories.
On first watch, the start of AoS is slow, but the same start is definitely much better upon rewatches
Person of Interest is interesting in that the first season, while interesting, wasn't really Jonathan Nolan's vision for the show. He made it the mostly episodic procedural for CBS execs, but was given more leeway in later seasons to make the actual in-depth analysis of AI, surveillance, and individuality that he'd originally wanted.
The real awesome thing is that as the show goes on it goes those early episodes into the fabric of the story in really cool ways. It stands as one of my favourite shows of all time and for a short while held three (maybe four?) of the top ten highest rated episodes on IMDB ever
100% the clone wars
The last season of Clone wars is amazing... the animation.. the story.. its so good!!!
Spartacus started off as a low budget 300. As the first season went on, they figured out how to do fights in their own style and the actual story got really good.
That show was absolutely amazing. It's just a shame that the lead died of cancer after the first season. It could have been such an amazing series.
Yeah, the crazy part for me was that Gods of the Arena was supposed to be a flashback that introduced characters for season 2. Whitfield's cancer diagnosis made them expand upon that and we got 6 episode half-season of the show.
Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. It was cursed by having to do monster of the week episodes for the first half of the season. Then Captain America: The Winter Soldier happened and it tied in with the show and everything changed.
i was coming in here to say this exact thing... They had to sit in a holding pattern of sorts until the movie dropped and after that it just got better and better. (Season 4 was their best)
I did like how they laid a lot of threads during the monster of the week episode, and some finally resolved themselves years later. Season 3 was my favourite. But this is a big debate with a lot of variance.
Too bad they deleted themselves from cannon... I would have loved to sed some of those charaters in a movie.
I think it was more that the movies wanted nothing to do with the tv shows. It was a massive missed opportunity.
The TV show was not privy to what was going on in the movies so the S.H.I.E.L.D writers didn't have the snap in their storyline and it didn't jibe with movie canon
I mean they literally played with time and deleted themselves from the cannon storyline. At least thats my head cannon if it dosent add up.
Yeah, the show was great at doing that.
Agents of SHIELD is such a weird thing for me. When I first watched it, those first 15 episodes or so really didn’t grab me at all. I almost gave up on the show entirely, but held out long enough for the Winter Soldier tie-in to change my mind completely. It eventually became one of my all-time favorite shows… That said, when I go back to rewatch it, I actually really love those first episodes now. They were needed in order to make the Winter Soldier twist hit as hard as it did. It’s also fun to see everybody starting off, all fresh and new, knowing where they end up later.
All the character elements are there, and everyone played off each other so well. I was happy with a monster of the week type show as well. Agents of SHIELD is still the best Marvel show.
that Winter Soldier twist was one of the coolest crossover events I've ever seen. Unbelievable that they were able to time the season perfectly so the twist episode dropped immediately after the movie came out
I both agree with this and disagree with it. I liked the new theme of the week, but I also liked the tie in. I definitely agree the show got much stronger after The Winter Soldier events happened tho
Yea it went from decent to fantastic after Winter Soldier. It became a lot of fun after that movie. I’m amazed how good of a show they came up with from a concept of “what if we resurrected Coulson”.
Black Mirror. That first episode... it's out there
But once I'd watched enough episodes to understand the show, I appreciate the first episode. It just shouldn't have been the first episode.
It's really bizarre. Why would you want to start a series by making the audience so horny
Oh? That’s what got me hooked. They never brought back that feeling again 🥺
Parks and Rec felt like a total office rip off until it found its footing
Thats because it was. Greg Daniels and Michael Shur were at the helm of P&R, coming right off working on The Office. There are so many parallels because the show pretty much started out as a spiritual successor. Once they realized that wasn't working, they hard pivoted and the show got so much better.
I've just recently realized how good Michael Shur is. The Office, P&R, Brooklyn 99, The Good Place. Man's got the golden touch.
Have you seen Hacks yet? It’s pretty good, different to all those others though
Greg Daniels was showrunner for King of the Hill, the Office, Parks and Rec. Pretty damn solid resume.
Dirk Gently (took me a few episodes to understand what the heck was going on 😂)
Oh man! I've never run into anybody else that's seen Dirk Gently! I really loved the character of Bart.
It had a little cult following during its release, but since it was cancelled instead of getting an ending it won't really have long term hope of being watched.
Fiona fuckin Dourif man, she's amazing
Such a shame it was discontinued 😭
I loved that show.
Dirk Gently is in my top 10 favourite shows of all time. I wish more people knew about it. I convinced a friend to watch it and he still thanks me every year when he rebinges it.
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It didn't start off BAD per se, and it's genuinely my favorite show of all time. But the first few episodes of True Blood were hard to get into until you accepted it for what it was. Goofy, horny vampires with awful southern accents.
Blackadder season 1 is a steaming dog turd in comparison to every other season after it. With each season Edmund Blackadder loses rank and status, but gets smarter and more cunning.
Otoh, Brian Blessed. I think the overarching theme of the show is that upper class twits who inherit everything are idiots. It makes sense that the lower Blackadder goes, the slyer he gets.
I don't mind it, but the later ones are absolutely the gems.
Absolutely. Season one was often cringeworthy. The Humor felt forced and everybody is playing a different kind of idiot. But the later seasons were so much better. In todays TV market it would not have survived season one.
Better call Saul started off slow for me but then I really got into it. Especially with all the Mexican cartel stuff
Better Call Saul is a slow burn, but I wouldn't say it started off *terrible* in any way whatsoever.
It’s always sunny in Philly. It wasn’t bad at first but it took them a while to find their feet and work out exactly what it was trying to be. If I remember right I think Dennis admitted in the podcast that the turning point was around season 3 when things just started clicking
The most jarring thing about its earliest episodes now is when you see Dennis *actually washing glasses*. You know, like a bartender does. 😄
Sweet Dee is a moral character and actually tried to help Charlie without getting anything in return. Her turnaround into who she is was *glorious*.
When frank turned up. I know they didn't think they needed him, but damn he was a good addition to the cast.
I both agree and disagree. The show gets better after Frank is introduced, but I still think season 1 is hilarious
Stargate Universe—really rough start, picks up towards end of S1, S2 is quite good, and then it was cancelled sadly, although the ending would support a reboot.
Halfway through season 2 SGU suddenly started hitting all the right notes. Forcing them to be on the run, encountering the civilisation their alternate selves started, encountering and looting another Destiny from the future iirc... it had some great plots, but unfortunately the first season made so many mistakes...
Babylon 5. Season one is painful, so painful, and it’s aged terribly, but it turns into some of the best science fiction ever televised.
Season 1 had to do all the world building and setup. Plus back then serialized storytelling was rarely done. So they had to introduce it slowly. And yes, production wise that first season is rough given the shoestring budget. But there’s a charm to that first season and going back I like how rough it feels. It really has that “city in space” vibe that later seasons don’t have.
For me, the Londo and G'kar dynamic was the most interesting and captivating part of the series. Hats off to Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas. The CGI and the space shadows plots were fine, but watching Londo and G'kar chewing the set was something else.
Star Trek The Next Generation
IASIP. The addition of Danny Devito to the cast in season two made that show.
My friend tells me to start in Season 2, and then when I love them to go back and watch Season 1. But I just can't convince myself to watch it out of order, so I've seen episode 1 and 2.
The first handful of Expanse episodes can be a real struggle to get thru. The early detective stuff is boring AF. Ive known several people who gave up on that show before coming back and forcing their way thru those first episodes.
The consensus with The Expanse is if you can make it to CQB you’re good. If you don’t like it after that episode it’s just not going to be your cup of tea. My wife hates sci-fi but I forced her to get to that point. Afterwards I won’t say she loved it but I also didn’t have to force her to watch it anymore.
Aww man I was hooked from episode one myself. I loved cowboy bebop myself and love a lived in Sci fi universe.
I never felt this at all. The first episode was a little slow, but by the second or third episode there’s a massive shootout and getaway and the plot just keeps chugging from there.
This! For me the 1st season was ok. I like sci fi and futuristic stuff so i liked how the show depicted the Interstellar civilization but at the same time all the politics was kinda going over my head. The detective stuff was also ok.. and i was kinda invested in Julie mao..but then i saw how that ended in s1. That was just disappointing. The protomolecule stuff was interesting but again nothing "new" .. and wasn't interesting for me to pick up the show for the 2nd season. So i gave up on the show for years probably. But then i picked up the 2nd season randomly.. i was bored, and i still kept seeing amazing reviews by people, i wanted to see what the deal is. Aaand the rest was history. I was hooked. It just got better and better. And now I'm disappointed we dont get more seasons.. considering the story hasn't ended. Still I'm satisfied enough with how the individual stories ended.
Bojack Horseman gets much better in the later seasons.
Arguable as to how terrible it is in vacuum, but for me: the Magicians. The first season is mostly trying to be kinda gritty and dark and too self serious. As it goes on it really learns the right tone and becomes one of my favorite shows of all time, but that first season is a little bit of a slog still for me.
Dc legends of tomorrow. Started of as a copy of the flash in the first season. After that the writers realised it would be more fun to just do LSD and see what funky things they can come up with
The tried to make the first season serious when it was always meant to be ridiculous.
Buffy the vampire slayer
Trailer park boys. It took me about a season and a half to get into it. Now I think it's amazing
It arguably became terrible later on , but that show started great and was consistently great for the first 4 or 5 seasons. Then they started making movies, then the revival without Clattenberg, bringing in celebrity guest stars, recycling ideas, and now they're continuing without Jon Dunsworth, and it's just not the same.
I like all 6/7 original seasons (aside that one where they couldn't film in an actual park that was kind rough). All the revival / netflix stuff isn't very good though.
Too much Bubbles...
Seinfeld's first season was meh, but boy did it get better.
First season was meh, but yada yada yada it became a classic.
You can't just yada yada the best part!
But I mentioned *the bisque….*
The office. It was so cringe at the beginning but later it evolved specially
At the beginning they were trying to be like UK Office, which worked for that as a cringe British mockumentary When they found their rhythm as a sitcom with more US humour they seemed to find their feet
I think part of it is that Steve Carrel is just such a goofy, likable personality. He was somewhat miscast to play an edgier/dickish character. That came a lot more easily to someone like Ricky Gervais. Steve Carrel is so hard to dislike that even when he’s being an obnoxious weirdo you still kinda want to root for him. I think the writers realized that pretty quickly after season 1 and tweaked Michael’s character to reflect more of Steve’s natural charisma, then the rest just fell into place.
Yep good point I think part of the UK appeal was a lot of Brits have worked in offices with a Brent like boss or manager, and worked head down in quiet despair, whereas the American attitude is more optimistic and managers shown respect
>At the beginning they were trying to be like UK Office Yep, so much so that the pilot was effectively a 1:1 remake of the UK one
It's one of those UK to US things that don't translate but they eventually found their own way and it's a solid sitcom in its own right now
People always say that but Diversity Day was the *second* episode and it's highly regarded, and (I'd argue) Health Care is also a classic. The pilot is the only episode I would consider subpar, and the rest of Season 1 isn't bad, just mildly mediocre with some good lines. There's only six episodes. That's not a bad ratio.
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Yeah, it got a lot better once they stopped doing books-on-film and started making a television show. Book Q makes for a more interesting protagonist because the reader has his internal monologue. On screen, Eliot and ~~Janet~~Margo were much more interesting characters, and the show really improved once the showrunners realized that.
Queen Margot ruled. She and Elliot seemed inconsequential in the first series. They ended up being so interesting.
The season with them finding the keys was so damn good. Season 1 was decent but once they hit Fillory it became incredible.
Ozark had a slow start, but it gained momentum with its intense storytelling and compelling performances.
I think episode one of Ozark makes a great short piece by itself. So tense. I’d accept that it slows down a bit after that for a while.
And then it shit the bed with the ending.
Julie Garner was the best part of that show, the only charactor, that I did not hate.
The Bear. I didn’t finish it the first time I attempted to watch it but the second time I was hooked by mid season. Season 2 is undoubtedly better than the first.
Wandavision. The first two episodes were just.... blah...... but after the third, we were hooked. Excellent show if you were into the marvel lore/universe. We used to spend HOURS, discussing the plot of that week's episode and theories about what would happen next. Loved it. But it did start dreadful.
Buffy, SG1
Angel also had trouble finding it's footing and figuring out exactly what it was, and had only a tiny main cast to work with. It definitely gets good somewhere in season 2 as they added more characters and settled on a tone, and I consider its last season its best (we don't talk about season 4.)
Star Wars: Rebels was an extremely “kiddie” show at the beginning but by season 2, it was coming into its own and ended up being incredible.
Torchwood. Man season 1 was very ropey. A handful of decent episodes but the rest was really hard to sit through. Season 2 was much better, clearer narrative, more consistent etc. Season 3 - Children of Earth was stellar. Top class sci-fi. Would almost say sci-fi horror based purely on concept. Meanwhile Season 4, as I've heard, is pretty rank.
The Americans was boring AF for about 2/3 through the first season while they did character and plot development. The entire rest of the 7-series run is some of the best TV of the decade.
First season of Star Trek TNG was not very good. It didn't really find its footing until about season 3
Star Trek the Next Generation. Season 1 is always so hard to get through but once it finds it's pace it defines my love of Star Trek.
Technically not really the start, but rather a re-start... Doctor Who 2005. The first episode was horrible when it comes to acting and the special effects. It was an extremely hard watch and I haven't been warned about it with the promise to get better soon I would have stopped right then and there. Episode 2 and 3 were ok, still a little goofy with the weird costumes and special effects but rather charming. The farting aliens in 4 and 5 almost chased me away again... Just with episode 6 (Dalek) it's where you really feel the kinda weight that show can have. 7 and 8 also being much better than the stuff before to be followed by a total banger with the "the empty child" and "the doctor dances" double header... By then I was hooked and even a short return by the farting aliens couldn't harm my love for the show any more.
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Oh man, I was actually completely hooked on that show from the very first episode!
Invincible. That first episode was meh all the way to the last scene.......
Literally thought it was exactly like all other cute superhero show cartoons. Nooooope
The 100 imo. Acting was really all over the place and most of them were pretty bad. You could literally see them improve over time.
“We’re back, bitches!” That moment probably is what caused a lot of people to drop the show then and there.
Yeah Ep1 was just CW cringe to the max. Gets markedly better as the show went on
Suits wasn’t at all terrible in the beginning but it became a lot smarter and touching. It became less stereotypical, which I loved.
What irritated me about that show was that they maintained the charade of Mike not having a law degree for so long. Like, it's not even that much of a thing to have to fix. They could easily have just kept him on as a 'consultant' then used their connections to get him into a law program and have him sit the exams, pass, then rejoin the firm as an associate. There was no actual need to put themselves in that much legal trouble.
I wasn’t that bothered by that tbh. I was bothered by Jessica’s whole “girlboss” attitude and her being mean to other women. I’m glad they gave her more depth and she became close to Donna and Rachel, rather than intimating them all the time. It was boring that way.
I feel like they must have added some actual women to the writers room for that show over time because their default for 'strong woman' was basically just 'narcissistic asshole' for a long while.