Tweety Bird from Looney Tunes. So much self-conscious "cuteness", plus he stirs up shit to plays the victim.
The real world has enough manipulative characters, I don't need one in my cartoons.
Same thing with Jerry sometimes. Just provokes Tom into attacking him because he's bored and we're supposed to root FOR him.
And we're supposed to think it's justified when his owner physically abuses him and throws him out in the street
So...I just asked my wife this question and she IMMEDIATELY said Snuffleupagus from Sesame Street.
I absolutely had to ask why that was, and she said when she was a child, she loved Big Bird, and she always wanted to be Big Bird's best friend. But she felt like Snuffleupagus was always in the way bc on the show Big Bird would always say Snuffy was his best friend.
She even told me that til this day she had a minor hatred for wooly mammoths because they remind her of Snuffleupagus.
Learn something new in marriage every day š¤£
Honestly, the absolute grudge that can form as a child and linger forever for some reason or other is so strong.
But also she's wrong Snuffleupagus was my favorite from Sesame Street and I extra love Wooly Mammoths because of it.
Sooooo. I'm willing to fight for his honor.
I just wanted her to get over Mr. Big after being caught in an affair, that's should have been it for them. Instead, they had to turn the Russian into the bad guy to get her back with Mr. Big. I was so disappointed. When she finally told him off right before going to Paris, I was like, finally! Only to be disappointed in the end.
Why would anyone in their right mind cheat on Aiden. If I found out that Aiden doesn't exist and I hallucinated him _I still wouldn't break up with Aiden_
I was happy when the ended up together, because they were both just awful. The type of people that truly deserved each other. Aiden was too good for Carrie
remember when she went to therapy and hooked up with jon bon jovi whose issue was he sleeps with women once and loses interest? that was her therapy arc
Aiden! ..this was peak toxic Carrie. We all knew she knew and used him for so much.
On a side note, as much as everyone is saying the re-boot is awful, I read somewhere John Corbett confirmed he's back as Aiden in the next season... and I'm not going to lie... I'm considering checking that out. I hope he's written as a character to tear her a new one... if they get back together, I will riot!
Yeah rewatching in my older years I realized how smart Aiden was to walk away from her. She was shitty and deserved to end up with shitty Big. Still love the show and it's interesting to see how my perspective of the characters change as I get older.
I'd much rather watch a show about Samantha living in London.
None of the other characters have evolved at all. In fact, they're even *less* self-aware and confident than they were years ago. It makes sense that Samantha would have moved on.
The episode that bothers me so much is when Carrie gets upset that Charlotte doesnāt offer to help Carrie retain her apartment. The woman has spent $40,000 on shoes, I wouldnāt offer her a damn thing. And yet Carrie guilts Charlotte and treats her like a bad friend, despite that she would likely never reciprocate anything financially.
The one that put me off Carrie forever was when she made fun of Samantha for turning up to her book launch, after her chemical peel goes wrong. I was disgusted how rude she was to a friend who still showed up to her event when sheās quite obviously in pain and very embarrassed.
Serena from Gossip Girl.
This girl has no self-control. She's always hooking up with someone even if they are married, Nate's cousin and Nate himself, like he was just like her for cheating on Blair.
She has the style and the look for the stan factor.. and that's it.
I don't think there's a single character in Gossip Girl that doesn't showcase extremely toxic and psychotic behavior at one point or another.
It gets really hard to stan any of them towards the end. But I think that's the point.
Big time, my mom was an early education teacher and ALWAYS told me āadults should never ever ask kids to keep secretsā and Iāve always strongly disliked frostyā¦ maybe thatās why.
Fully expected Meredith Grey to be near the top of this list.
She's sulky, self-absorbed, and petulantly self-righteous.
I don't think I've ever hated a character more.
I honestly think Derrick is 1000x worse. Heās so emotionally stupid and manipulative, I donāt see how anyone can be attracted to him once you get past his hair and initial charm.
You can put the whole show on the list, a tv-show about a hospital where everyone fucks, argues about every single thing, does not listen to the chief, or even respect the man at allā¦
If i were dying, and ended up there, id take my chances out on the streets š
I loved this character in the first season but from season two onwards she just becomes worse and worse. Itās like a villain origin story.
Gone is the S1 snarky, clever girl who struggles between maturity and teenage meltdowns during coming-of-age hurdles, and in comes the manic pixie dream girl who strolls into every situation like she knows everything, accidentally stumbles into all of her achievements >!(Chilton Vice President, Mitchumās internship, DAR, Yale Daily News editor)!<, has all boys fall at her feet and thinks every boyfriend sheās ever had always belongs to her >!(having an affair with a married Dean, trying to cheat with Jess when sheās angry at Logan, having an affair with Logan when heās engaged)!<, and is relentlessly fawned over despite acting bratty and finding a reason to dislike everyone she meets.
EDIT: I spoil-tagged because some people might not have seen the show yet! Why do you people have an issue with this, people still do this for fifty year-old books lmfao.
I appreciate how a year in the life didn't retcon it or make Rory a better person off screen. They doubled down on what a bad person she is and how unlikeable she's become as an adult.
I never understood why every single guy she meets falls desperately, hopelessly in love with her for literally, their whole fucking lives. Being smart is not a personality
Iām convinced there are three phases of watching Gilmore Girls. Phase 1 is when youāre just starting out and Roryās grandparents are meant to be the baddies for trying to manipulate Roryās life via their contract with Lorelei.
Phase 2 is when you start to realize that Richard and Emily are just acting like grandparents and itās really Lorelei whose at fault for letting Rory grow up with virtually no responsibilities and no actual parental figure to speak of.
Phase 3 is when you get close to the end of the show or make it to the sequel and you realize that Rory is the worst, most selfish goddamned person on the planet who has made the lives of everyone around her worse. She has learned absolutely nothing, she hasnāt grown up at all, and she canāt fathom why the world wonāt just give her what she thinks she deserves.
I am rewatching the series for the umpteen time right now, but first time as a mom. My husband and I had this literal conversation last week. He pointed out how Mitchum was made out to be the bad guy for saying Rory doesnāt have what it takes to be a journalist and how spot on that was.
Also, I have been quick to realize how toxic/co-dependent Lorelei and Roryās relationship is. Lorelei proclaims multiple times that Rory is her best friend and that they are friends first, mother/daughter second. Personally, I think this tracks perfectly with grown up Roryās success (or lack there of).
Exactly! Yes!
That whole conversation where Lorelai basically tells Rory that she is not allowed to lose her virginity without telling her first?
EW EW EW EW EW.
As a teenager I thought they shared a special bond. As an adult I recognize this as emotional incest.
The signs of Rory's sociopathy were always there. When she slept with a married man at age 18 I thought, "Well she made a mistake and she'll learn a lesson." Apparently she learned that sleeping with married/engaged men is a fun time. And there's the recurring joke about how her boyfriend is such a loser she can't take him seriously enough to feel ANYTHING about cheating on him. Maybe she's ruined so many marriages that it no longer makes an impact.
I got into GG late (as in 2020 while pregnant) and binged it from start to finish over a few weeks.
I couldn't believe how much I hated Rory by the end of it š
My mom and I had a very similar relationship growing up and Gilmore Girls was FUNDAMENTAL to its development. We always thought it was so special. I only realized recently, nearly 30 years old, how unhealthy it was. My mom did not take that conversation well.
It's so interesting thinking about this dynamic, because my mom and I went... Backwards? ... From this. As a teenager, I did not get along with my mom at all. Part of it was me being a bratty teenager whose hormones were going whackadoodle from puberty, part of it was her hormones going whackadoodle from menopause, and part of it was we are both flawed humans who make mistakes sometimes. But as an adult (I am now 35f), we have very much bonded as friends.
And I think that's the thing; moms and daughters can be friends, but as adults with mutual respect*. The Lorelei/Rory relationship lacks the maturity of that, and the Lorelei/Emily relationship (at least at first) lacks... Any respect whatsoever.
*Obviously WMMV, this is just my experience
> Phase 3 is when you get close to the end of the show or make it to the sequel and you realize that Rory is the worst, most selfish goddamned person on the planet who has made the lives of everyone around her worse. She has learned absolutely nothing, she hasnāt grown up at all, and she canāt fathom why the world wonāt just give her what she thinks she deserves.
For me, it is when she hits university. She just sucks at that point. I can't recall anything good other than Jesse coming back with his shit together, calling her out on her shit.
In my case I had the privilege to watch it when I was 16 and now as an adult that is Lorelaiās age. As a kid, I related to Rory so much. She was more of an intellectual who had very few friends and was the daughter of a single mother just like me. So I loved Rory and I rooted for her.
As an adult, I canāt stand either of them. Like, I love them because I just do, itās my comfort show. But, I roll my eyes at so many things they say and do.
I understand Emily and Richard much more now.
You know as a character, I find sheās pretty well written as an example of a kid being given totally unrealistic expectations of how harsh the world is and growing up with zero criticism. If youāre told all the time youāre great and can do no wrong, then when the world bites you in the ass youāre totally unprepared for it.
From that stance, I find her pretty sympathetic. She didnāt help herself as the series went on, but neither did the people around her. She even said once that just being told sheās great wonāt prepare her for the real world, and they glossed right over it.
Ugh, yes. I shamefully find myself in her in several ways.
I think it could have been a really interesting exploration of the "ex gifted kid" which is really quite common. When you've never had to work for anything and get accolades, the first time you run into real barriers, it seriously messes you up. I just feel like they didn't do that.
They sort of did in the Netflix limited series. Sheās not living a good life really, just very busy but not really achieving anything. It has a very āfall from graceā feel to it. I would wager that was the direction the creators wanted to take it in before the whole āthem leaving the showā thing.
You just made me realize I had this experience myself. Growing up I was usually one of the better students in my class, and one of the better athletes on my sports teams, without really trying. So I never really worked at anything. Then my parents sent me to a prep school with really good academics and athletics. I got mostly C's my freshman year, and didn't make the basketball or soccer team. That feeling really sucked, but it made me actually start giving a shit. Now I am thankful I was able to turn it around sooner rather than later, and learned a work ethic.
Same. When it first came to DVD and I watched from the library, I was early 20s and absolutely Team Lorelei and Rory. Watching it 15-20 years later, Im pissed that Lane never gets her dreams and Paris is treated as a side character when they are both way more compelling characters. And, Emily and Richard make a lot of really good points.
I love Lane and Paris, they were both fascinating. I can't believe they gave Lane a whole arc about wanting to get out from her strict mother's control, and travel and be in a band, only to have her get pregnant from her very first time and wind up staying in the same town to raise her kids. I know that's how it goes sometimes, and at least Lane seems content, but damn, they didn't have to do her like that.
Also, it took me way too long to realize that Liza Weil (Paris), also played Bonnie in How to Get Away with Murder.
Omg she should be at the top. When I was a teenager she was so impossibly cool. Now as an adult I canāt stand her; she is like a vampire that feeds on other peoplesā happiness while they comment on how amazing she is.
Sheās living out a fantasy where this entire town worships her like a goddess no matter how shitty she treats them.
It was even worse with the reunion series where sheās now in her thirties and *still* treating human beings like disposable napkins while taking absolutely no responsibility for a single terrible choice sheās made in life.
I see people commenting on her personality, but personally I can't stand her weird baby-talk voice. And she didn't always sound like that! At some point she goes from talking like a normal person to her whiny child voice. (I have no idea when this happens- I didn't actually watch the show myself, but my sister binged it during lockdown, and I couldn't not hear it with how our house is laid out.) It's horrendous.
This reminds of how much I miss *Futurama* being on Adult Swim. The bumpers would occasionally just be Hypnotoad on a black background for a solid 30 seconds and it was glorious.
I fucking hated Piper in Orange is the New Black. To be honest, that whole show was a shitshow and I don't know why it was such a zeitgeist when it was coming out.
They do later on, pretty explicitly actually. She reaps what she sows quite often. I stopped watching at the end of S. 4 so idk about after that, but a whole theme towards the end (of what I saw) is just "Wow, you're a terrible person!"
The show got so much better once they realised the stories of the supporting characters were way more interesting than the main character. From S2 onwards it really just feels like an ensemble and that she's barely in it for more than the others
He was supposed to be likeable? The way he never defended his wife from his horrible manipulative narcissist mother was rough. I have no history with that kind of thing but I still found all of them to be unbearable
Any child on Disney Channel. They all just do whatever they want, ignoring authority figures, and it always works out for them. That isn't how life works.
I think some of the newer shows somewhat address that. The owl house turns that trope on its head and has its overconfident main character inadvertently help cause a genocide
Tweety is even more annoying than Jerry.
And growing up in the 90s, the worst moms at school had Tweety shirts and car decals. You'd see them outside the school yelling at the groundspeople or being obnoxious at every sport event.
Sookie Stackhouse in both the books and the show. I stopped after book 7 (out of 13) bc I just couldnāt stand her anymore.
Not even my normal genre of books but I gave them a shot when a friend begged me to at least read the first one. All Iāve seen of the show was when I was at that friendās house bc she always had it on.
Sookie, Tara, and Bill are all so unbelievably annoying.
Sookie and Bill are Edward and Bella if they were those kids in high school that are always all over each other.
And Tara. My god. They wrote her to actively fuck up her life anytime it seems like it is going ok.
Honestly, the side main characters are the saving grace of the show (Eric, Pam, Lafayette, etc)
"You'd better watch who you're calling a child, Lois. Because if I'm a child, you know what that makes you? A pedophile. And I'll be damned if I'm gonna stand here and be lectured by a pervert."
I'd say Peter in the early seasons is a lovable dolt, but in the later seasons he became a cruel psychopath.
Though in newer seasons (like the last ten years) he's become less cruel and more of a doofus again.
Honestly the newer seasons have been an improvement on the show.
* Peter is a bit nicer
* Brian is less of an asshole
* Quagmire became the smart and sensible one of the group
* Chris has a nice relationship with Stewie
* Meg isn't a punching bag and is now just a social reject
The show is definitely getting a lot better. Its a shame that people tuned out because its really good again. These past 2 or so seasons have been great.
I like that joke in Cleveland show when theyāre all at a wedding, and Quagmire says to Peter: āSo Peter, when am I getting my own show?ā And Peter just responds with: āQuagmire, youāre a rapist.ā And ends it with that lol
Isn't that the same flanderization as happened to Homer Simpson over the seasons? From caring dimwit to obnoxious idiot.
These shows have basically reverse character development.
I mostly just hate Angelina, but I don't think anyone regarded her as a likable character by the end of season 2 or in season 3. Still hoping she'll get stabbed or something.
The WORST! She made everything about her - Caroline said it brilliantly when she turned off her humanity: āI compelled a student to perform surgery on Stefanās niece and youāre making this about you? Wow, you really have a gift Elena.ā
Fuck her. She was always the victim in her mind. She fell in love with Damon even though he essentially raped Caroline in season 1. So like, what the fuck? Ugh. UGH
Edit: spelling
Carrie Bradshaw from Sex and the City. Such a ridiculously awful human being who is constantly rewarded and validated for being a selfish, entitled, brat.
As the nuclear bombs went off all around and our country entered world war three, I couldnāt help wondering: Isnāt it time to start worrying about world war *me*?
Frank Gallagher (Shameless [US])
While not everyone loves him, enough used to find him relatable that they'd forget the guy is a selfish, self-righteous, xenophobic, vengeful fuckhead and would always act like he was such a cool "bro" character. FUCK Frank Gallagher.
Honestly, all the Gallaghers kind of suck and can be super annoying at times. Weirdly enough, I didn't find Frank annoying hardly ever, and I think it's because I just sort of accepted that this dude is a thorough piece of shit beyond redemption, whereas the kids still had a chance of changing their ways. Idk. I stopped watching after Fiona left and Debbie started getting more screen time.
My husband and I are watching Malcolm in the Middle for the first time, neither of us watched it as kids. And it has brilliant writing and is consistently laugh out loud funny ... But damn if Malcolm is not one of the most trash characters I've ever seen, it's brutal.
Oh yeah lol doesn't he have an aneurism or something?
I think the show recognizes that Malcolm complains a lot, but he's a kid and has a lot on his plate, so it's somewhat understandable.
Ah, my bad. It's been a while. I just vaguely remember the ending, where he's at a basket-ball game and freaking-out (in his mind) until he has a nose-bleed and passes out.
And then in the hospital he just...let's it all out.
That's supposed to be the point. There's an episode later where he meets the adult version of himself (played by Jason Alexander). He talks about how that guy is so annoying and pretentious, but doesn't even realize he's talking about himself.
And an episode where he plays a "The Sims" type of game, recreates himself and his family in the game, and gets annoyed when his character ends up a homeless loser while everyone else becomes successful.
The other thing is that Malcolm evolves into a tormented narcissist as the show goes on. He's actually pretty charming and relatable in the early seasons (he's almost a poor man's Ferris Bueller) but the writers clearly leaned into how regular teenagers are insufferable, so Malcolm would be even worse considering his gifts, with hilarious results. It's a very unconventional and interesting approach to main character development.
Slightly related, but one other thing I've always appreciated about the show is that the family members all seem to represent a different form of mental illness (likely exacerbated by their lower class suffering). Hal avoids nearly all conflict and largely still acts like a child (likely due to his upbringing and Daddy issues), Lois is a control freak (due to her upbringing and Mommy issues), Francis is self-destructive and self-sabotaging with delusions of grandeur (due to his Mommy issues), Reese has anger and impulse control problems, Malcolm is pure neuroses and Dewey canonically hears voices and suffers from hallucinations.
Goddamn do I love Malcolm in the Middle.
There's a very early episode where he meets this girl and she straight up tells him that all of his presumed problems and issues with other people and life in general are 100% because of him, which I actually love. It's something he struggles with throughout the show, occasionally getting better, but often still refusing to be self aware and getting himself into deeper trouble. Even the finale focuses on this, with Lois telling him that his life won't ever be easy, and people will always hate him no matter how hard he tries, but he will work hard and persevere and do what's best and what is right.
This is who I thought of when I clicked on the thread. Possibly one of the most divisive sitcom characters, along with, I don't know, Pierce Hawthorne.
East side, west side, north side, south
Vaughnās breath is so bad his buttās mad at his mouth.
This rap is by Pierce, Vaughn is so dumb
He wears diapers to bed and sucks his motherās thumb.
And when he wakes up stupid wishing he was me
He has a big poop breakfast with a glass of pee.
Then he goes to school where heās stupid again
Everybody hates him even all his friends.
When you come after Pierce then the battle is on
So this rap goes out to stupid Vaughn.
The one that gets me is Howard.
The guy blows straight past "creepy" into straight up sex offender. There's throw away lines about how he put webcams into teddy bears he gave Penny and he just chuckles and the conversation carries on. There's scenes where he uses various camera's to look up people skirts/down their tops (sparate scenes). Dude isn't, as the show puts it when Penny gives him a dressing down, "a little peculiar"... dude should be in prison.
Yeah, she does and after apologizing, Howard tries to kiss her so she socks him one for it. I enjoy the show personally but holy fuck did Howard deserve that punch to the face. He's a total creep, even after he gets married to Bernadette.
I think the way that episode was supposed to happen would be that Howard gets called out and has some self reflection that ends up causing him to spiral as his self image of being a ladies man is shattered. Ultimately Penny decides to console him because even after everything he's done she would rather see him grow than become a shut in.
Unfortunately the show isn't written well enough for that and because they don't want to end the show on something poignant they make him try to kiss Penny so she punches him and they get to make his sexual harassment back into a joke while pretending they have addressed it.
He used it and some other stuff to find the Top Model house. Though I think it was just to calculate the location as he wanted to go to the house to hit on the models.
God it must have been absolute torture living in that house with Bam. I thought it was so funny when I was a kid, but now I totally empathize with his parents - you don't fuck with my sleep
He was always the shittiest, most annoying cast member of jackass. He would do stupid shit to people and any time they retaliated he'd act like a whiny little bitch about it.
I'd say Patrick since he's selfish and a menace and comically strong. Patrick the type guy to break your back in three places when he slaps you trying to "encourage" you at random
Fez from That 70s Show. I just donāt laugh when heās on screen. Heās creepy and perverted.
Honorable mention for Donna. She has some great qualities, but she definitely has a tendency to take things too personally at times and cause unnecessary fights with Eric as a result.
I feel like Fez started out just a fish out of water, then they did that thing where they just magnified bits of him to be whole him and he ended up creepy, kind of a jerk, and unlikable. They did something similar with Raj on BBT.
Fez only got worse as time went on, too. He started off as a socially awkward kid that was happy for his little group of friends but was legitimately sad/lonely about having no romantic connection in his life. Like, I was there as a teen, I can relate to Fez wanting this happiness heās seeing all his friends experience.
But instead of growing and finding that meeting some is sometimes a natural consequence of maturing as a person, he went full incel and became an outright creep. Cannot stand later seasons Fez, he just comes off as a future sex offender.
Seriously. Eric asked her how heās supposed to know if sheās feel left out if he hung out with his guy friends, and she said āyouāll know afterward when Iām upset.ā Like, cmon. Heās trying to be considerate and to find a balance between his relationship and his friends, and she doesnāt even try to communicate about it.
TBH though this does seem like the kind of drama two teenagers in a relationship would have. He technically knows this could be a serious issue and has the emotional bandwidth to start that conversation.
She too understands this has the power to make her feel bad. But she's not mature enough, lacks the self-awareness and relationship-experience to navigate the situation and give him a fair answer. She's unable to answer because she herself hasn't gotten to know herself well enough to come up with a solution. She's also too immature to verbalise her own lacking to take partial blame. So she puts it back on him in a kind of humorous fashion in order to kind of diffuse the situation. Rather than continue the discussion honestly like mature adults would do and work on the problem as they go.
Meanwhile he too lacks the maturity and the relationship-experience to call her out on it.
They're just two teens who are emotionally aware enough to kind of understand what makes a healthy, mature relationship. But still lack maturity and experience to actually make that happen.
Tweety Bird from Looney Tunes. So much self-conscious "cuteness", plus he stirs up shit to plays the victim. The real world has enough manipulative characters, I don't need one in my cartoons.
Same thing with Jerry sometimes. Just provokes Tom into attacking him because he's bored and we're supposed to root FOR him. And we're supposed to think it's justified when his owner physically abuses him and throws him out in the street
So...I just asked my wife this question and she IMMEDIATELY said Snuffleupagus from Sesame Street. I absolutely had to ask why that was, and she said when she was a child, she loved Big Bird, and she always wanted to be Big Bird's best friend. But she felt like Snuffleupagus was always in the way bc on the show Big Bird would always say Snuffy was his best friend. She even told me that til this day she had a minor hatred for wooly mammoths because they remind her of Snuffleupagus. Learn something new in marriage every day š¤£
Honestly, the absolute grudge that can form as a child and linger forever for some reason or other is so strong. But also she's wrong Snuffleupagus was my favorite from Sesame Street and I extra love Wooly Mammoths because of it. Sooooo. I'm willing to fight for his honor.
She said she'll meet you tomorrow at the flag pole after school. 3 o'clock.
Place your bets here ladies and gents!
Where are Max and Rubyās parents?
And thatās how we get Ruby.
Carrie Bradshaw from SATC - self absorbed, not a good friend and just the worst.
I just wanted her to get over Mr. Big after being caught in an affair, that's should have been it for them. Instead, they had to turn the Russian into the bad guy to get her back with Mr. Big. I was so disappointed. When she finally told him off right before going to Paris, I was like, finally! Only to be disappointed in the end.
Why would anyone in their right mind cheat on Aiden. If I found out that Aiden doesn't exist and I hallucinated him _I still wouldn't break up with Aiden_
I was happy when the ended up together, because they were both just awful. The type of people that truly deserved each other. Aiden was too good for Carrie
I didn't look at her the same after what happened with Natasha and Aiden. She should have had a therapy ark.
remember when she went to therapy and hooked up with jon bon jovi whose issue was he sleeps with women once and loses interest? that was her therapy arc
She did Aiden so dirty. I just adored him!
Aiden! ..this was peak toxic Carrie. We all knew she knew and used him for so much. On a side note, as much as everyone is saying the re-boot is awful, I read somewhere John Corbett confirmed he's back as Aiden in the next season... and I'm not going to lie... I'm considering checking that out. I hope he's written as a character to tear her a new one... if they get back together, I will riot!
Didnāt know this enough as a teen watching this but rewatching as an adult, good gawd, theyāre all awful but indeed, Carrie is THE WORST
Yeah rewatching in my older years I realized how smart Aiden was to walk away from her. She was shitty and deserved to end up with shitty Big. Still love the show and it's interesting to see how my perspective of the characters change as I get older.
I love how much the new series has flopped. No one post-2008 wants to hear about a foursome of entitled rich arseholes and their non-issues.
Threesome. Kim Cattrall refused to do the show.
I'd much rather watch a show about Samantha living in London. None of the other characters have evolved at all. In fact, they're even *less* self-aware and confident than they were years ago. It makes sense that Samantha would have moved on.
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The episode that bothers me so much is when Carrie gets upset that Charlotte doesnāt offer to help Carrie retain her apartment. The woman has spent $40,000 on shoes, I wouldnāt offer her a damn thing. And yet Carrie guilts Charlotte and treats her like a bad friend, despite that she would likely never reciprocate anything financially.
The one that put me off Carrie forever was when she made fun of Samantha for turning up to her book launch, after her chemical peel goes wrong. I was disgusted how rude she was to a friend who still showed up to her event when sheās quite obviously in pain and very embarrassed.
Serena from Gossip Girl. This girl has no self-control. She's always hooking up with someone even if they are married, Nate's cousin and Nate himself, like he was just like her for cheating on Blair. She has the style and the look for the stan factor.. and that's it.
Yessss and she always plays the victim
I don't think there's a single character in Gossip Girl that doesn't showcase extremely toxic and psychotic behavior at one point or another. It gets really hard to stan any of them towards the end. But I think that's the point.
Frosty the Snowman. I can't explain, but that motherfucker gets on my nerves big time.
His stupid ass did not have to go inside the greenhouse
It was like he wanted to die. Frosty had demons.
You're the first person I've seen actually answer the question.
He's just so "I'm the guy." Like, we get it dude, you're a jolly, happy soul. Get the fuck over yourself
Technically frosty the snowman is a golem. Heās brought to life by an enchanted hat made to do whatever the hats intentions were
The eyes made out of coal.
Heās got lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a dollās eyes
Twenty nine kids go in the water. Twenty two kids come out of the water. The ice cream man, he take the rest. ApriI the 9th, haIf past 4 p.m.
I always got strong child molester vibes from him. āDonāt tell your parents kidsā
Big time, my mom was an early education teacher and ALWAYS told me āadults should never ever ask kids to keep secretsā and Iāve always strongly disliked frostyā¦ maybe thatās why.
Fully expected Meredith Grey to be near the top of this list. She's sulky, self-absorbed, and petulantly self-righteous. I don't think I've ever hated a character more.
Well she did become a derogatory pop culture slang term with her āPick meā speech
Is that where it came from?!
Yeah when sheās begging dr mcdreamy to pick me, itās supposed to be romantic/vulnerable but now itās a pop culture slang term
Ellen has said in interviews that she HATED that speech
i did too, and i bet derek did as well, seeing as he immediately chose addison
I havenāt watched that show since probably season three, but sheās the first character that came to mind for me.
I honestly think Derrick is 1000x worse. Heās so emotionally stupid and manipulative, I donāt see how anyone can be attracted to him once you get past his hair and initial charm.
You can put the whole show on the list, a tv-show about a hospital where everyone fucks, argues about every single thing, does not listen to the chief, or even respect the man at allā¦ If i were dying, and ended up there, id take my chances out on the streets š
Poochie, though itās sad he died going back to his home planet
Rory Gilmore.
I loved this character in the first season but from season two onwards she just becomes worse and worse. Itās like a villain origin story. Gone is the S1 snarky, clever girl who struggles between maturity and teenage meltdowns during coming-of-age hurdles, and in comes the manic pixie dream girl who strolls into every situation like she knows everything, accidentally stumbles into all of her achievements >!(Chilton Vice President, Mitchumās internship, DAR, Yale Daily News editor)!<, has all boys fall at her feet and thinks every boyfriend sheās ever had always belongs to her >!(having an affair with a married Dean, trying to cheat with Jess when sheās angry at Logan, having an affair with Logan when heās engaged)!<, and is relentlessly fawned over despite acting bratty and finding a reason to dislike everyone she meets. EDIT: I spoil-tagged because some people might not have seen the show yet! Why do you people have an issue with this, people still do this for fifty year-old books lmfao.
Rory goes through the opposite of a Redemption Arc. She actually becomes a worse person by the end, which is something a lot of shows just donāt do.
I appreciate how a year in the life didn't retcon it or make Rory a better person off screen. They doubled down on what a bad person she is and how unlikeable she's become as an adult.
I never understood why every single guy she meets falls desperately, hopelessly in love with her for literally, their whole fucking lives. Being smart is not a personality
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It also makes watching her in anything else, like Mad Men or Handmaids Tail, incredibly jarring
Iām convinced there are three phases of watching Gilmore Girls. Phase 1 is when youāre just starting out and Roryās grandparents are meant to be the baddies for trying to manipulate Roryās life via their contract with Lorelei. Phase 2 is when you start to realize that Richard and Emily are just acting like grandparents and itās really Lorelei whose at fault for letting Rory grow up with virtually no responsibilities and no actual parental figure to speak of. Phase 3 is when you get close to the end of the show or make it to the sequel and you realize that Rory is the worst, most selfish goddamned person on the planet who has made the lives of everyone around her worse. She has learned absolutely nothing, she hasnāt grown up at all, and she canāt fathom why the world wonāt just give her what she thinks she deserves.
I am rewatching the series for the umpteen time right now, but first time as a mom. My husband and I had this literal conversation last week. He pointed out how Mitchum was made out to be the bad guy for saying Rory doesnāt have what it takes to be a journalist and how spot on that was. Also, I have been quick to realize how toxic/co-dependent Lorelei and Roryās relationship is. Lorelei proclaims multiple times that Rory is her best friend and that they are friends first, mother/daughter second. Personally, I think this tracks perfectly with grown up Roryās success (or lack there of).
Exactly! Yes! That whole conversation where Lorelai basically tells Rory that she is not allowed to lose her virginity without telling her first? EW EW EW EW EW.
As a teenager I thought they shared a special bond. As an adult I recognize this as emotional incest. The signs of Rory's sociopathy were always there. When she slept with a married man at age 18 I thought, "Well she made a mistake and she'll learn a lesson." Apparently she learned that sleeping with married/engaged men is a fun time. And there's the recurring joke about how her boyfriend is such a loser she can't take him seriously enough to feel ANYTHING about cheating on him. Maybe she's ruined so many marriages that it no longer makes an impact.
I got into GG late (as in 2020 while pregnant) and binged it from start to finish over a few weeks. I couldn't believe how much I hated Rory by the end of it š
My mom and I had a very similar relationship growing up and Gilmore Girls was FUNDAMENTAL to its development. We always thought it was so special. I only realized recently, nearly 30 years old, how unhealthy it was. My mom did not take that conversation well.
It's so interesting thinking about this dynamic, because my mom and I went... Backwards? ... From this. As a teenager, I did not get along with my mom at all. Part of it was me being a bratty teenager whose hormones were going whackadoodle from puberty, part of it was her hormones going whackadoodle from menopause, and part of it was we are both flawed humans who make mistakes sometimes. But as an adult (I am now 35f), we have very much bonded as friends. And I think that's the thing; moms and daughters can be friends, but as adults with mutual respect*. The Lorelei/Rory relationship lacks the maturity of that, and the Lorelei/Emily relationship (at least at first) lacks... Any respect whatsoever. *Obviously WMMV, this is just my experience
> Phase 3 is when you get close to the end of the show or make it to the sequel and you realize that Rory is the worst, most selfish goddamned person on the planet who has made the lives of everyone around her worse. She has learned absolutely nothing, she hasnāt grown up at all, and she canāt fathom why the world wonāt just give her what she thinks she deserves. For me, it is when she hits university. She just sucks at that point. I can't recall anything good other than Jesse coming back with his shit together, calling her out on her shit.
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In my case I had the privilege to watch it when I was 16 and now as an adult that is Lorelaiās age. As a kid, I related to Rory so much. She was more of an intellectual who had very few friends and was the daughter of a single mother just like me. So I loved Rory and I rooted for her. As an adult, I canāt stand either of them. Like, I love them because I just do, itās my comfort show. But, I roll my eyes at so many things they say and do. I understand Emily and Richard much more now.
You know as a character, I find sheās pretty well written as an example of a kid being given totally unrealistic expectations of how harsh the world is and growing up with zero criticism. If youāre told all the time youāre great and can do no wrong, then when the world bites you in the ass youāre totally unprepared for it. From that stance, I find her pretty sympathetic. She didnāt help herself as the series went on, but neither did the people around her. She even said once that just being told sheās great wonāt prepare her for the real world, and they glossed right over it.
Ugh, yes. I shamefully find myself in her in several ways. I think it could have been a really interesting exploration of the "ex gifted kid" which is really quite common. When you've never had to work for anything and get accolades, the first time you run into real barriers, it seriously messes you up. I just feel like they didn't do that.
They sort of did in the Netflix limited series. Sheās not living a good life really, just very busy but not really achieving anything. It has a very āfall from graceā feel to it. I would wager that was the direction the creators wanted to take it in before the whole āthem leaving the showā thing.
You just made me realize I had this experience myself. Growing up I was usually one of the better students in my class, and one of the better athletes on my sports teams, without really trying. So I never really worked at anything. Then my parents sent me to a prep school with really good academics and athletics. I got mostly C's my freshman year, and didn't make the basketball or soccer team. That feeling really sucked, but it made me actually start giving a shit. Now I am thankful I was able to turn it around sooner rather than later, and learned a work ethic.
Watching that series as an adult made me realize that both Rory and Lorelai are pretty shitty people. Rory especially, in the new series.
Same. When it first came to DVD and I watched from the library, I was early 20s and absolutely Team Lorelei and Rory. Watching it 15-20 years later, Im pissed that Lane never gets her dreams and Paris is treated as a side character when they are both way more compelling characters. And, Emily and Richard make a lot of really good points.
I love Lane and Paris, they were both fascinating. I can't believe they gave Lane a whole arc about wanting to get out from her strict mother's control, and travel and be in a band, only to have her get pregnant from her very first time and wind up staying in the same town to raise her kids. I know that's how it goes sometimes, and at least Lane seems content, but damn, they didn't have to do her like that. Also, it took me way too long to realize that Liza Weil (Paris), also played Bonnie in How to Get Away with Murder.
I can just tolerate her until she goes to Yale. Thatās usually when I stop watching.
For me itās when she drops out of Yale, but the real stopping point has to be when Lukeās daughter shows upā¦
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The scene where Lane is trying to talk to her about a boy and she's not even pretending to listen or care always makes me so mad.
Omg she should be at the top. When I was a teenager she was so impossibly cool. Now as an adult I canāt stand her; she is like a vampire that feeds on other peoplesā happiness while they comment on how amazing she is. Sheās living out a fantasy where this entire town worships her like a goddess no matter how shitty she treats them. It was even worse with the reunion series where sheās now in her thirties and *still* treating human beings like disposable napkins while taking absolutely no responsibility for a single terrible choice sheās made in life.
She's the golden child, but of the whole town, not just her immediate family
I see people commenting on her personality, but personally I can't stand her weird baby-talk voice. And she didn't always sound like that! At some point she goes from talking like a normal person to her whiny child voice. (I have no idea when this happens- I didn't actually watch the show myself, but my sister binged it during lockdown, and I couldn't not hear it with how our house is laid out.) It's horrendous.
Ross and Rachel from Friends. They are actually very toxic for each other and anyone whoās involved in their friends/lovers drama.
I'll never understand Ross. He was the largest and he simply didn't eat the other five.
Why don't you go watch Single Female Lawyer instead?
I'm more of an "Everyone Loves Hypnotoad" guy. HT's just got that indescribable quality that keeps you hooked!
This reminds of how much I miss *Futurama* being on Adult Swim. The bumpers would occasionally just be Hypnotoad on a black background for a solid 30 seconds and it was glorious.
I fucking hated Piper in Orange is the New Black. To be honest, that whole show was a shitshow and I don't know why it was such a zeitgeist when it was coming out.
I think the show's biggest failing was not really leaning into the "Piper is horrible *and that's the whole point*" of it all.
They do later on, pretty explicitly actually. She reaps what she sows quite often. I stopped watching at the end of S. 4 so idk about after that, but a whole theme towards the end (of what I saw) is just "Wow, you're a terrible person!"
They get to a point where she is barely shown because she was the least interesting character
The show got so much better once they realised the stories of the supporting characters were way more interesting than the main character. From S2 onwards it really just feels like an ensemble and that she's barely in it for more than the others
I gave up around S2 because she just keeps being the dumbest person going. She should be in jail for being such a dipshit
Raymond
Of "Everybody loves" fame?
He was supposed to be likeable? The way he never defended his wife from his horrible manipulative narcissist mother was rough. I have no history with that kind of thing but I still found all of them to be unbearable
Any child on Disney Channel. They all just do whatever they want, ignoring authority figures, and it always works out for them. That isn't how life works.
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I think some of the newer shows somewhat address that. The owl house turns that trope on its head and has its overconfident main character inadvertently help cause a genocide
Peppa pig. At the end of the day, she is a spoilt brat
Bro fat shames her dad
Like calliou. Fuck calliou
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I am dying laughing as I read this in the narrator's voice!!!
Fr. All my homies hate Calliou
Jerry from Tom and Jerry
Exactly , Tom has suffered too much because of this dirty little mouse.
I have found my people. I always rooted for tom as a young nipper
I root for every cartoon cat. Fuck Tweety.
Tweety is even more annoying than Jerry. And growing up in the 90s, the worst moms at school had Tweety shirts and car decals. You'd see them outside the school yelling at the groundspeople or being obnoxious at every sport event.
Seriously. Jerry starts shit and acts like the victim. Jerry is a cry bully. And I *hate* cry bullies.
Just depends on the episode. Many of them start with either Tom or Jerry trying to sleep and the other one waking them up doing something obnoxious
Yeah every episode begins by either one of them starting shit for no fucking reason.
Sookie Stackhouse in both the books and the show. I stopped after book 7 (out of 13) bc I just couldnāt stand her anymore. Not even my normal genre of books but I gave them a shot when a friend begged me to at least read the first one. All Iāve seen of the show was when I was at that friendās house bc she always had it on.
āI am over Sookie and her precious fairy vagina and her unbelievably stupid name!ā PAM DE BEAUFORT
Sookie, Tara, and Bill are all so unbelievably annoying. Sookie and Bill are Edward and Bella if they were those kids in high school that are always all over each other. And Tara. My god. They wrote her to actively fuck up her life anytime it seems like it is going ok. Honestly, the side main characters are the saving grace of the show (Eric, Pam, Lafayette, etc)
And then after everything that Tara had to go through >! THEY GIVE HER AN UNCEREMONIOUS OFFSCREEN DEATH!!! !<
"Bitch you come into my house and order my food you're gonna eat it the way I FUCKIN MAKE IT!" His intro was one of the best in cinema history.
i stan ericā¦ i hate bill. hate that she wastes so much time being with/trying to be with bill when handsome perfect eric was available
Peter Griffin. I don't know how Lois does it, his stupidity would have had me packin it up a long time ago. But as a viewer, it's hilarious.
"You'd better watch who you're calling a child, Lois. Because if I'm a child, you know what that makes you? A pedophile. And I'll be damned if I'm gonna stand here and be lectured by a pervert."
I'm ashamed to admit that I've had a couple of opportunities to use this line, but wasn't present enough in the moment to use it.
Honestly one of my favorite lines from that show. It still gets a chuckle out of me š
My favorite is: "Peter, you're drunk!" "I'm not drunk I'm just exhausted from staying up all night drinking!"
I'd say Peter in the early seasons is a lovable dolt, but in the later seasons he became a cruel psychopath. Though in newer seasons (like the last ten years) he's become less cruel and more of a doofus again.
Honestly the newer seasons have been an improvement on the show. * Peter is a bit nicer * Brian is less of an asshole * Quagmire became the smart and sensible one of the group * Chris has a nice relationship with Stewie * Meg isn't a punching bag and is now just a social reject
The show is definitely getting a lot better. Its a shame that people tuned out because its really good again. These past 2 or so seasons have been great.
I love how quagmire has evolved and it feels pretty natural, but really thereās no way they could have kept old quagmire in this day and age.
I like that joke in Cleveland show when theyāre all at a wedding, and Quagmire says to Peter: āSo Peter, when am I getting my own show?ā And Peter just responds with: āQuagmire, youāre a rapist.ā And ends it with that lol
Seasons 1-4 Peter were the best, you can tell he's dimwitted, but he is a decent person at heart. Not sure where they went wrong after that.
Isn't that the same flanderization as happened to Homer Simpson over the seasons? From caring dimwit to obnoxious idiot. These shows have basically reverse character development.
Early Simpsons called it out on one of the clip shows. A fan writes in to Troy McClure declaring that Homer gets stupider every year.
That's not a question, Doctor
Who knows what'll happen between now and when the show becomes unprofitable.
By now you're probably saying 'Troy, I've seen every Simpsons episode. You can't possibly show me anything new.' *You've got some attitude mister*.
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People from manifest (mostly Ben and Michaela)
I mostly just hate Angelina, but I don't think anyone regarded her as a likable character by the end of season 2 or in season 3. Still hoping she'll get stabbed or something.
Izzy Stevens from early seasons of Greyās. Sheās so whiny and self centered, it drives me BONKERS when some find her so wholesome.
this is my time. elena gilbert from the vampire diaries.
The WORST! She made everything about her - Caroline said it brilliantly when she turned off her humanity: āI compelled a student to perform surgery on Stefanās niece and youāre making this about you? Wow, you really have a gift Elena.ā Fuck her. She was always the victim in her mind. She fell in love with Damon even though he essentially raped Caroline in season 1. So like, what the fuck? Ugh. UGH Edit: spelling
Carrie Bradshaw from Sex and the City. Such a ridiculously awful human being who is constantly rewarded and validated for being a selfish, entitled, brat.
As the nuclear bombs went off all around and our country entered world war three, I couldnāt help wondering: Isnāt it time to start worrying about world war *me*?
Rewatched āsaved by the bellā and Zack is annoying.
Frank Gallagher (Shameless [US]) While not everyone loves him, enough used to find him relatable that they'd forget the guy is a selfish, self-righteous, xenophobic, vengeful fuckhead and would always act like he was such a cool "bro" character. FUCK Frank Gallagher.
Fuckin Gallaghers.
Honestly, all the Gallaghers kind of suck and can be super annoying at times. Weirdly enough, I didn't find Frank annoying hardly ever, and I think it's because I just sort of accepted that this dude is a thorough piece of shit beyond redemption, whereas the kids still had a chance of changing their ways. Idk. I stopped watching after Fiona left and Debbie started getting more screen time.
Ross Gellar (played perfectly by David Schwimmer - but still irritating)
Did you meet Rachel's new boyfriend, Russ?
My husband and I are watching Malcolm in the Middle for the first time, neither of us watched it as kids. And it has brilliant writing and is consistently laugh out loud funny ... But damn if Malcolm is not one of the most trash characters I've ever seen, it's brutal.
There's an episode where he recognizes that he's an annoying know-it-all and tries to shut his mouth for a while, but it nearly kills him.
Oh yeah lol doesn't he have an aneurism or something? I think the show recognizes that Malcolm complains a lot, but he's a kid and has a lot on his plate, so it's somewhat understandable.
Ulcer.
Ah, my bad. It's been a while. I just vaguely remember the ending, where he's at a basket-ball game and freaking-out (in his mind) until he has a nose-bleed and passes out. And then in the hospital he just...let's it all out.
There's also an episode where a girl he likes roasts his personality until he starts crying.
That's supposed to be the point. There's an episode later where he meets the adult version of himself (played by Jason Alexander). He talks about how that guy is so annoying and pretentious, but doesn't even realize he's talking about himself.
And an episode where he plays a "The Sims" type of game, recreates himself and his family in the game, and gets annoyed when his character ends up a homeless loser while everyone else becomes successful.
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The other thing is that Malcolm evolves into a tormented narcissist as the show goes on. He's actually pretty charming and relatable in the early seasons (he's almost a poor man's Ferris Bueller) but the writers clearly leaned into how regular teenagers are insufferable, so Malcolm would be even worse considering his gifts, with hilarious results. It's a very unconventional and interesting approach to main character development. Slightly related, but one other thing I've always appreciated about the show is that the family members all seem to represent a different form of mental illness (likely exacerbated by their lower class suffering). Hal avoids nearly all conflict and largely still acts like a child (likely due to his upbringing and Daddy issues), Lois is a control freak (due to her upbringing and Mommy issues), Francis is self-destructive and self-sabotaging with delusions of grandeur (due to his Mommy issues), Reese has anger and impulse control problems, Malcolm is pure neuroses and Dewey canonically hears voices and suffers from hallucinations. Goddamn do I love Malcolm in the Middle.
There's a very early episode where he meets this girl and she straight up tells him that all of his presumed problems and issues with other people and life in general are 100% because of him, which I actually love. It's something he struggles with throughout the show, occasionally getting better, but often still refusing to be self aware and getting himself into deeper trouble. Even the finale focuses on this, with Lois telling him that his life won't ever be easy, and people will always hate him no matter how hard he tries, but he will work hard and persevere and do what's best and what is right.
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he reminds me of michael bluth. in the context of his family heās the sane one but to literally anyone else, not so much
Sheldon Cooper
This is who I thought of when I clicked on the thread. Possibly one of the most divisive sitcom characters, along with, I don't know, Pierce Hawthorne.
Pierce is just streets ahead
Pierce is a wise old man. He and the Dalai Lama go way back
Speaking of way back, did I ever tell you guys about the time I took Eartha Kitt way back to the airplane bathroom
It came up organically
I mean his character is supposed to be hated
Pierce is a GDB
East side, west side, north side, south Vaughnās breath is so bad his buttās mad at his mouth. This rap is by Pierce, Vaughn is so dumb He wears diapers to bed and sucks his motherās thumb. And when he wakes up stupid wishing he was me He has a big poop breakfast with a glass of pee. Then he goes to school where heās stupid again Everybody hates him even all his friends. When you come after Pierce then the battle is on So this rap goes out to stupid Vaughn.
A no good B.
Every character from that show is a terrible trope.
The one that gets me is Howard. The guy blows straight past "creepy" into straight up sex offender. There's throw away lines about how he put webcams into teddy bears he gave Penny and he just chuckles and the conversation carries on. There's scenes where he uses various camera's to look up people skirts/down their tops (sparate scenes). Dude isn't, as the show puts it when Penny gives him a dressing down, "a little peculiar"... dude should be in prison.
Then when Penny finally snapped and called him creepy he walked out the scene with his head down acting like he was the victim
And didn't evereybody else tell her to apologize, so in the end she did and that was it?
Yeah, she does and after apologizing, Howard tries to kiss her so she socks him one for it. I enjoy the show personally but holy fuck did Howard deserve that punch to the face. He's a total creep, even after he gets married to Bernadette.
I think the way that episode was supposed to happen would be that Howard gets called out and has some self reflection that ends up causing him to spiral as his self image of being a ladies man is shattered. Ultimately Penny decides to console him because even after everything he's done she would rather see him grow than become a shut in. Unfortunately the show isn't written well enough for that and because they don't want to end the show on something poignant they make him try to kiss Penny so she punches him and they get to make his sexual harassment back into a joke while pretending they have addressed it.
And she apologized.
I think he used some nasa infrastructure to spy on models
He used it and some other stuff to find the Top Model house. Though I think it was just to calculate the location as he wanted to go to the house to hit on the models.
I dunno if you would call him a character but I fucking hate Bam Margera
I'm pretty sure Bam Magera hates Bam Magera.
I find it fitting that after he bullied Phil all those years, he now looks exactly like him. Edit: You can see a little bit of Don Vito in him too
It was always out of fear of becoming like Phil.
God it must have been absolute torture living in that house with Bam. I thought it was so funny when I was a kid, but now I totally empathize with his parents - you don't fuck with my sleep
Ran into him at an airport recently, dude is in rough shape and he smells real bad. Still took the time to talk with some fans and take photos though
He brought a serious mean spirited-ness to the Jackass gang that always rubbed me the wrong way.
And he couldn't take it when it was dished back out to him
He was always the shittiest, most annoying cast member of jackass. He would do stupid shit to people and any time they retaliated he'd act like a whiny little bitch about it.
Spongebob. I'm more of a squidward guy. He's more realistic and the type of dude I'd take a hit with.
You either die SpongeBob or live long enough to become Squidward.
Or you're Patrick your whole life.
I was Patrick for most of my younger years, now I get to embrace the Squidward
I'd say Patrick since he's selfish and a menace and comically strong. Patrick the type guy to break your back in three places when he slaps you trying to "encourage" you at random
Fez from That 70s Show. I just donāt laugh when heās on screen. Heās creepy and perverted. Honorable mention for Donna. She has some great qualities, but she definitely has a tendency to take things too personally at times and cause unnecessary fights with Eric as a result.
I feel like Fez started out just a fish out of water, then they did that thing where they just magnified bits of him to be whole him and he ended up creepy, kind of a jerk, and unlikable. They did something similar with Raj on BBT.
Definite Flanderization. He was a lonely, socially awkward teenager that wanted to meet a girl, and that devolved into him being a creepy pervert.
Fez only got worse as time went on, too. He started off as a socially awkward kid that was happy for his little group of friends but was legitimately sad/lonely about having no romantic connection in his life. Like, I was there as a teen, I can relate to Fez wanting this happiness heās seeing all his friends experience. But instead of growing and finding that meeting some is sometimes a natural consequence of maturing as a person, he went full incel and became an outright creep. Cannot stand later seasons Fez, he just comes off as a future sex offender.
Seriously. Eric asked her how heās supposed to know if sheās feel left out if he hung out with his guy friends, and she said āyouāll know afterward when Iām upset.ā Like, cmon. Heās trying to be considerate and to find a balance between his relationship and his friends, and she doesnāt even try to communicate about it.
TBH though this does seem like the kind of drama two teenagers in a relationship would have. He technically knows this could be a serious issue and has the emotional bandwidth to start that conversation. She too understands this has the power to make her feel bad. But she's not mature enough, lacks the self-awareness and relationship-experience to navigate the situation and give him a fair answer. She's unable to answer because she herself hasn't gotten to know herself well enough to come up with a solution. She's also too immature to verbalise her own lacking to take partial blame. So she puts it back on him in a kind of humorous fashion in order to kind of diffuse the situation. Rather than continue the discussion honestly like mature adults would do and work on the problem as they go. Meanwhile he too lacks the maturity and the relationship-experience to call her out on it. They're just two teens who are emotionally aware enough to kind of understand what makes a healthy, mature relationship. But still lack maturity and experience to actually make that happen.
Iām an Olaf hater