Apologies region-wide to all Caribbean people for using "Caribbeans" as a word. I would change the title but i unfortunately cant, so now i must face the wrath of disappointed Caribbean people.
The next time I see Caribbeans in a post title I might have to pull out a dictionary and put it in an image on why it does not make sense gramatically.
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Anyways , they are Caribbean people as well thats it. The cultural influence might be different but are still a part of the overall culture. It just has a different set of flavour.
***
It might seem a bit facinating but depending on some european countries that did slavery and colonialism the result is the same, our ansestors fought for freedom and over time was able to create a new cultural identity.
They’re around? I’d say out of most of the other subcultures they exist more so within their own bubble since geographically they’re kinda far from the rest of us (from an eastern Caribbean perspective) and we don’t speak Dutch. Like with French Guiana a lot of people from the anglophone Caribbean went there during the gold rush (I have a ton of cousins there) and with Guyana I had quite a few Guyanese teachers but I’ve only met one person from Suriname and that was at a regional confidence. One love, one family though.
We certainly exist in a bubble from the outside looking in due to our language. But, from the inside looking out there is no bubble due to family ties and because we also speak English and Spanish. It's only towards the French speaking islands that there are less direct connections either way, but even from them we take some influences like for example in music.
True, but there are some questions to be asked as to why this is. Because the ABC islands speak Papiamento (a Portuguese/Spanish creole) and much kf their culture is remniscent of Latin-America (especially Venezuela/Colombia) yet you rarely hear about them in the Spanish Caribbean.
Sint Maarten, Saba and Sint Eustatius speak English and their culture is mostly Anglo-Caribbean but you don't hear much about them in the rest of the Anglo-Caribbean.
They are legally Dutch and are part of The Netherlands. But in culture and language it seems they are more tied to their neighbors. From the outside they sound foreign but looking in they are quite similiar.
Might due to some ignorance and the unknown about the region to the rest of the Caribbean as to why they aren't talked about much.
It's actually "Caribbean people". But we know what you mean. ;)
So, if it comes to Suriname, Surinamese people don't really have a strong opinion on Dutch Caribbean people. Some people, mostly 50 years and older, do still call them the Netherlands Antilles, and with that they also include Aruba. However, seeing them as separate is becoming increasingly the norm, If not, the de facto way to see them.
When thinking of the Dutch Caribbean, Surinamese people usually think of Aruba and Curacao, and more so Curacao. St. Maarten is sometimes also included in the "conversation". But when people talk about St. Maarten, it's usually about job opportunities; especially for teachers, nurses or people that work in construction or do some other kind of job. When talking about Curacao and Aruba it's usually as a vacation destination. These two islands are the regional vacation destination for Surinamese people, and Curacao is the most popular one. We are one of the largest tourist markets according to the Curacao tourism board.
Other than that, it's usually that Curaçaoans and Arubans don't speak Dutch and are generally bad at it. Now irl it might be different, especially for Aruba, but the general idea is that people of the islands speak bad Dutch. And most Surinamese also think the accents of all islands are similar to the Curaçaoan one, but that's due to stereotypes seeded by Dutch Media...similar to how Dutch Media seeds stereotypes about Suriname and Surinamese on the islands.
In general people think of the islands - again mostly Aruba and Curaçao - as nice and beautiful. Aruba is the more Americanized one and attracts a certain niche of Surinamese that like that, and Curaçao is less of that and more "Dutch" in terms of tourism infrastructure.
In the past there was some rivalry between mostly Curaçao and Suriname...even if it came to airlines...but nowadays that's died off. It was mostly the people that were born under the Dutch crown here in Suriname doing the whole rivalry thing.
About the smaller SSS islands there aren't really any opinions. About Sint Maarten, those that know about it and went see it as a very small island they can't live too long on because of the size. We know they speak English and hardly ever Dutch. But in general there is no direct opinion.
Same as the smaller SSS islands. No opinion, extension of Aruba and Curaçao, like how the smaller SSS islands are sometimes seen as an extension of Sint Maarten.
I want to learn Dutch but I specifically want to learn Caribbean Dutch. I don’t want to sound like a European. It’s near impossible to find any Caribbean Dutch resources. It reminds me of how I had to learn Castilian Spanish when I had no use for it.
You couldn't find any resources for Caribbean Dutch because there is no such thing as a Caribbean Dutch accent
Dutch isn't spoken nearly as much in the Dutch Caribbean as in The Netherlands or Suriname. Most people speak Papiamento (A Portuguese-based creole) in the ABC islands and English Creole in the SSS islands. Spanish is also common in the ABC islands
The closest thing i can think being "Caribbean Dutch" is the Suriname accent or the Antilliaanse accent Dutch Caribbeans have when they live in The Netherlands for a while and speak Dutch. But there isn't really Caribbean Dutch accent.
Lol, I'm a linguist, I know. There are multiple varieties of colonial languages in the Caribbean. My point is as my family is from the Caribbean I'm far more oriented towards the Dutch Caribbean than the Netherlands.
I understand, but my point is that there isn't a Caribbean Dutch accent or variety, nor any Dutch-based creoles to learn in/of the Dutch Caribbean.
If you want to be more oriented to the Dutch Caribbean, I suggest learning Papiamento/u (Portuguese-Creole spoken in Aruba, Curaçao and Bonaire) then, as Papiamento/u is the language that truly represents the Dutch Caribbean (and is the most spoken language in the Dutch Caribbean), rather than the Dutch language which isn't really spoken nearly as much as Papiamento/u, English or Spanish in most of the Dutch Caribbean.
But if you just want to learn Dutch with a different accent from the European one. Then Suriname's Dutch accent is the one to learn.
Yea and theres people in the SSS Islands that have family from all over the Dutch Caribbean. Both parents are from Aruba. Grandad was Sint Maarten. Grandma was Sint Maarten. Her family came from Statia. I was born in Sint Maarten.
I don’t think anything of them really, but their diversity is very cool and interesting to see. I think Cuaçao is the most interesting of all three. Aruba is great though too.
Let me tell you something, folks the ABC islands - Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao. These islands are tremendous, absolutely fantastic. The beaches are the best, the best, believe me. Crystal clear waters, beautiful white sands, you wouldn't believe it. And the weather, oh my goodness, the weather is just perfect. Perfect for golfing, swimming, you name it.
The people there are just wonderful. They are so hospitable, so friendly, you wouldn't find a better crowd anywhere else. And the food, oh boy, the food is out of this world. Fresh seafood, tropical fruits, delicious local dishes that will just blow your mind.
And the activities are top-notch. Snorkeling, diving, windsurfing - you name it, the ABC islands have it all. And the sunsets, don't even get me started on the sunsets. They are like paintings in the sky, absolutely breathtaking.
So, folks, if you haven't been to the ABC islands, you are missing out big time. Believe me, you won't regret it. Make the ABC islands great again!
People in Trinidad and Tobago are very much aware of their existence and our relationship with each one varies depending on the island. Our relations with Curaçao and St Maarten are close with thousands of trinis going there on vacation each year. As a result of this many trinis have at least a basic understanding of the culture and views them positively. Our relationship with Aruba is not as close but most people would just view them as an extension of Curaçao. In fact many trinis went to work in Aruba during the early 20th century so there are some historic ties.
In times of disaster the Dutch government would sometimes ask the T&T government for assistance with relief until they can get their resources in the area and I remember vividly a case where trade students from St Maarten came to finish their semester in a local trade school after theirs was damaged in a hurricane. So this goes to show how cordial our islands are.
Returning to Curaçao our relationship with them is particularly close for some reason and goes beyond us simply viewing them as a vacation spot. There are cultural, educational and governmental exchanges all the time but I honestly can't tell you why we are this close.
Yes true, i've heard Aruban carnival has heavy influence from the West-Indians (mainly Trinidadians) who moved to work on Aruba in the 20th century. Soca and Calypso being very popular in Aruba.
The descendants of those West-Indians making up most of the population of the town of San Nicolas and about 15% of the total Aruban population. That's why when i went there to San Nicolas on vacation, I heard Caribbean English similiar to T&T spoken in the streets. Often mixed with Papiamento (Aruba's language). Pretty interesting.
True, i think of Xander Bogaerts from Aruba when i hear about Caribbean baseball. Its quite amazing how Arubans (and Curaçaoans) speak 3 to 4 languages.
Its interesting that he has a Dominican accent. From what i've experienced, most Arubans learn the Venezuelan and Colombian accents.
I'm originally from Cuba, and I'm pretty sure I can speak for most Cubans on this: we forget that those islands exist. Until the summer Olympics, that is.
I mean no offense to anyone from the smaller Caribbean islands, but the vast majority of Cubans only really know/care about the bigger islands like the Hispaniola (DR/Haiti), Puerto Rico, and Jamaica.
They're pretty big (for their size) in baseball and produce some really good baseball players. Especially Aruba and Curaçao.
I can see why Cubans or many other Caribbean countries don't think about them. They're small in size and population, have little media coverage and fall under The Netherlands.
But they are pretty similiar to the rest of region once you look inside. Aruba, Bonaire and Curaçao being very similiar to the Spanish Caribbean and Latin-America. Much of their culture and cultural practices are remniscent of Latin-America and namely their language (Papiamento/Papiamentu) is also quite similiar to Spanish.
I have fond memories of Curacao as the first time that I boarded a flight was between Maiquetía and Hato airports. Curacao had, not sure if it is still the case, a heavy Venezuelan influence, with many people speaking Venezuelan accented Spanish. Papiamento, especially written, is not difficult to understand by Venezuelans. Aruba and Bonaire were seen by Venezuelans as sister islands to Curacao, with the latter being seen as more exotic. As for Sint Maarten, I found that it is very much influenced by the English speaking Caribbean, though, interestingly, there are plenty of Haitians and Dominicans who live there.
Good amount of Dominicans in Curacao, Aruba, Sint Maarten. We honestly have more connection with them than the English and French islands. My ex girlfriend (Dominican) family had a small restaurant in Aruba ate there on a visit. Aruba is great.
In Anguilla and SXM they are seen as pretty cool especially because there used to be a lot of migration to Aruba and curaçao. They are also great athletes and also have salt reserves.
Apologies region-wide to all Caribbean people for using "Caribbeans" as a word. I would change the title but i unfortunately cant, so now i must face the wrath of disappointed Caribbean people.
The next time I see Caribbeans in a post title I might have to pull out a dictionary and put it in an image on why it does not make sense gramatically. *** Anyways , they are Caribbean people as well thats it. The cultural influence might be different but are still a part of the overall culture. It just has a different set of flavour. *** It might seem a bit facinating but depending on some european countries that did slavery and colonialism the result is the same, our ansestors fought for freedom and over time was able to create a new cultural identity.
Damn my apologies bro, I would change the title but i cant so now i have to accept my fate.
Just letting you know. Proper term is Caribbean people *** Also do not refer to me as bro I am a lady.
I like the word “Caribbeings” to describe us. But I say that as a poet.
Kinda off track, but in Spanish it’s “Caribeños” directly translating to “Carribeans”
These damn Spanish 😤
They’re around? I’d say out of most of the other subcultures they exist more so within their own bubble since geographically they’re kinda far from the rest of us (from an eastern Caribbean perspective) and we don’t speak Dutch. Like with French Guiana a lot of people from the anglophone Caribbean went there during the gold rush (I have a ton of cousins there) and with Guyana I had quite a few Guyanese teachers but I’ve only met one person from Suriname and that was at a regional confidence. One love, one family though.
We certainly exist in a bubble from the outside looking in due to our language. But, from the inside looking out there is no bubble due to family ties and because we also speak English and Spanish. It's only towards the French speaking islands that there are less direct connections either way, but even from them we take some influences like for example in music.
True, but there are some questions to be asked as to why this is. Because the ABC islands speak Papiamento (a Portuguese/Spanish creole) and much kf their culture is remniscent of Latin-America (especially Venezuela/Colombia) yet you rarely hear about them in the Spanish Caribbean. Sint Maarten, Saba and Sint Eustatius speak English and their culture is mostly Anglo-Caribbean but you don't hear much about them in the rest of the Anglo-Caribbean. They are legally Dutch and are part of The Netherlands. But in culture and language it seems they are more tied to their neighbors. From the outside they sound foreign but looking in they are quite similiar. Might due to some ignorance and the unknown about the region to the rest of the Caribbean as to why they aren't talked about much.
It's actually "Caribbean people". But we know what you mean. ;) So, if it comes to Suriname, Surinamese people don't really have a strong opinion on Dutch Caribbean people. Some people, mostly 50 years and older, do still call them the Netherlands Antilles, and with that they also include Aruba. However, seeing them as separate is becoming increasingly the norm, If not, the de facto way to see them. When thinking of the Dutch Caribbean, Surinamese people usually think of Aruba and Curacao, and more so Curacao. St. Maarten is sometimes also included in the "conversation". But when people talk about St. Maarten, it's usually about job opportunities; especially for teachers, nurses or people that work in construction or do some other kind of job. When talking about Curacao and Aruba it's usually as a vacation destination. These two islands are the regional vacation destination for Surinamese people, and Curacao is the most popular one. We are one of the largest tourist markets according to the Curacao tourism board. Other than that, it's usually that Curaçaoans and Arubans don't speak Dutch and are generally bad at it. Now irl it might be different, especially for Aruba, but the general idea is that people of the islands speak bad Dutch. And most Surinamese also think the accents of all islands are similar to the Curaçaoan one, but that's due to stereotypes seeded by Dutch Media...similar to how Dutch Media seeds stereotypes about Suriname and Surinamese on the islands. In general people think of the islands - again mostly Aruba and Curaçao - as nice and beautiful. Aruba is the more Americanized one and attracts a certain niche of Surinamese that like that, and Curaçao is less of that and more "Dutch" in terms of tourism infrastructure. In the past there was some rivalry between mostly Curaçao and Suriname...even if it came to airlines...but nowadays that's died off. It was mostly the people that were born under the Dutch crown here in Suriname doing the whole rivalry thing. About the smaller SSS islands there aren't really any opinions. About Sint Maarten, those that know about it and went see it as a very small island they can't live too long on because of the size. We know they speak English and hardly ever Dutch. But in general there is no direct opinion.
SXM mentioned 🥲
How does Bonaire fit in there?
Same as the smaller SSS islands. No opinion, extension of Aruba and Curaçao, like how the smaller SSS islands are sometimes seen as an extension of Sint Maarten.
I want to learn Dutch but I specifically want to learn Caribbean Dutch. I don’t want to sound like a European. It’s near impossible to find any Caribbean Dutch resources. It reminds me of how I had to learn Castilian Spanish when I had no use for it.
You couldn't find any resources for Caribbean Dutch because there is no such thing as a Caribbean Dutch accent Dutch isn't spoken nearly as much in the Dutch Caribbean as in The Netherlands or Suriname. Most people speak Papiamento (A Portuguese-based creole) in the ABC islands and English Creole in the SSS islands. Spanish is also common in the ABC islands The closest thing i can think being "Caribbean Dutch" is the Suriname accent or the Antilliaanse accent Dutch Caribbeans have when they live in The Netherlands for a while and speak Dutch. But there isn't really Caribbean Dutch accent.
I didn’t mean Caribbean Dutch as a language, but as an accent. Perhaps using Castilian was a bad analogy
Well if you want to learn a non-European Dutch accent you'll have to go with Surinamese Dutch because there isn't a specific Caribbean Dutch accent.
Lol, I'm a linguist, I know. There are multiple varieties of colonial languages in the Caribbean. My point is as my family is from the Caribbean I'm far more oriented towards the Dutch Caribbean than the Netherlands.
I understand, but my point is that there isn't a Caribbean Dutch accent or variety, nor any Dutch-based creoles to learn in/of the Dutch Caribbean. If you want to be more oriented to the Dutch Caribbean, I suggest learning Papiamento/u (Portuguese-Creole spoken in Aruba, Curaçao and Bonaire) then, as Papiamento/u is the language that truly represents the Dutch Caribbean (and is the most spoken language in the Dutch Caribbean), rather than the Dutch language which isn't really spoken nearly as much as Papiamento/u, English or Spanish in most of the Dutch Caribbean. But if you just want to learn Dutch with a different accent from the European one. Then Suriname's Dutch accent is the one to learn.
I learn dutch from the dutch people so I sound like a dutchie when I speak the language. I do throw in words like Awo and Hodee
Those are Papiamento words from Aruba and Curaçao lol
Yea and theres people in the SSS Islands that have family from all over the Dutch Caribbean. Both parents are from Aruba. Grandad was Sint Maarten. Grandma was Sint Maarten. Her family came from Statia. I was born in Sint Maarten.
I don’t think anything of them really, but their diversity is very cool and interesting to see. I think Cuaçao is the most interesting of all three. Aruba is great though too.
Let me tell you something, folks the ABC islands - Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao. These islands are tremendous, absolutely fantastic. The beaches are the best, the best, believe me. Crystal clear waters, beautiful white sands, you wouldn't believe it. And the weather, oh my goodness, the weather is just perfect. Perfect for golfing, swimming, you name it. The people there are just wonderful. They are so hospitable, so friendly, you wouldn't find a better crowd anywhere else. And the food, oh boy, the food is out of this world. Fresh seafood, tropical fruits, delicious local dishes that will just blow your mind. And the activities are top-notch. Snorkeling, diving, windsurfing - you name it, the ABC islands have it all. And the sunsets, don't even get me started on the sunsets. They are like paintings in the sky, absolutely breathtaking. So, folks, if you haven't been to the ABC islands, you are missing out big time. Believe me, you won't regret it. Make the ABC islands great again!
Interestingly similar to the Hispanic Caribbean, I find Papiamento fascinating and I like how it sounds, as a Dominican I can understand a lot of it.
People in Trinidad and Tobago are very much aware of their existence and our relationship with each one varies depending on the island. Our relations with Curaçao and St Maarten are close with thousands of trinis going there on vacation each year. As a result of this many trinis have at least a basic understanding of the culture and views them positively. Our relationship with Aruba is not as close but most people would just view them as an extension of Curaçao. In fact many trinis went to work in Aruba during the early 20th century so there are some historic ties. In times of disaster the Dutch government would sometimes ask the T&T government for assistance with relief until they can get their resources in the area and I remember vividly a case where trade students from St Maarten came to finish their semester in a local trade school after theirs was damaged in a hurricane. So this goes to show how cordial our islands are. Returning to Curaçao our relationship with them is particularly close for some reason and goes beyond us simply viewing them as a vacation spot. There are cultural, educational and governmental exchanges all the time but I honestly can't tell you why we are this close.
Yes true, i've heard Aruban carnival has heavy influence from the West-Indians (mainly Trinidadians) who moved to work on Aruba in the 20th century. Soca and Calypso being very popular in Aruba. The descendants of those West-Indians making up most of the population of the town of San Nicolas and about 15% of the total Aruban population. That's why when i went there to San Nicolas on vacation, I heard Caribbean English similiar to T&T spoken in the streets. Often mixed with Papiamento (Aruba's language). Pretty interesting.
A few of them in the major leagues and play good baseball
True, i think of Xander Bogaerts from Aruba when i hear about Caribbean baseball. Its quite amazing how Arubans (and Curaçaoans) speak 3 to 4 languages. Its interesting that he has a Dominican accent. From what i've experienced, most Arubans learn the Venezuelan and Colombian accents.
I've never run into anyone from the ABC islands.
I'm originally from Cuba, and I'm pretty sure I can speak for most Cubans on this: we forget that those islands exist. Until the summer Olympics, that is. I mean no offense to anyone from the smaller Caribbean islands, but the vast majority of Cubans only really know/care about the bigger islands like the Hispaniola (DR/Haiti), Puerto Rico, and Jamaica.
They're pretty big (for their size) in baseball and produce some really good baseball players. Especially Aruba and Curaçao. I can see why Cubans or many other Caribbean countries don't think about them. They're small in size and population, have little media coverage and fall under The Netherlands. But they are pretty similiar to the rest of region once you look inside. Aruba, Bonaire and Curaçao being very similiar to the Spanish Caribbean and Latin-America. Much of their culture and cultural practices are remniscent of Latin-America and namely their language (Papiamento/Papiamentu) is also quite similiar to Spanish.
I have fond memories of Curacao as the first time that I boarded a flight was between Maiquetía and Hato airports. Curacao had, not sure if it is still the case, a heavy Venezuelan influence, with many people speaking Venezuelan accented Spanish. Papiamento, especially written, is not difficult to understand by Venezuelans. Aruba and Bonaire were seen by Venezuelans as sister islands to Curacao, with the latter being seen as more exotic. As for Sint Maarten, I found that it is very much influenced by the English speaking Caribbean, though, interestingly, there are plenty of Haitians and Dominicans who live there.
Good amount of Dominicans in Curacao, Aruba, Sint Maarten. We honestly have more connection with them than the English and French islands. My ex girlfriend (Dominican) family had a small restaurant in Aruba ate there on a visit. Aruba is great.
Curazao and a maybe Aruba are the only Dutch people could know here.
In Anguilla and SXM they are seen as pretty cool especially because there used to be a lot of migration to Aruba and curaçao. They are also great athletes and also have salt reserves.
I’ve never met anyone from those Islands
We don't
Downvoted because there is only one Caribbean.