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It is more important to be to get Biden out, and to prevent the Presidency to be held by a Democrat. I would much prefer Haley to be the candidate. Since that did not happen, I must support Trump. I do not think Trump is a great person, but this is where we are and where we have been for 2016 & 2020.
Not that person, but if I may.. what's your top 2 issues with Biden? And what would you like to see happen? Or, how would a GOP president accomplish what you'd like to see happen?
1 of 2 : He is a career politician with over 5 decades of public service , 4 decades of public service as a senator. 8 as a vice president , almost 4 as a potus. Mostly all of that time involved following establishment and party guidelines ( playing party politics and voting with the party interests ) never actually accomplishing anything in my opinion or actually introducing laws or bills into the system. Except the crime bill. Which was highly criticized and ridiculed. As vice president and POTUS he's been literally a puppet in office still following his party policies and agenda. His actual contributions are actually quite small and very underwhelming as POTUS. Claiming job growth and "a booming economy" doesn't offset the high inflation and high interest rates , not to mention the high cost of living , that seem to cancel these things out. Again just my opinion but nobody cares about high job growth and a booming economy when they can't afford groceries.
2. A much younger Joe Biden running for senator at the time , claimed all a lot of educational experience in college that later proved to be untrue. Joe Biden in a nutshell loves to embellish his past and tries to produce a positive image of himself by quite honestly just lying about it. His tall tails about being Scranton Joe and his altercations with Corn Pop are legendary. In Joe Biden's mind this is perfectly normal because he has always said one thing politically and then gone in the complete opposite direction of it. Before the internet and before instant information to be able to fact check a person in real time it was normal for senators to embellish. Joe Biden is nothing more than a creature of habit if anything else. To him embellishment is perfectly normal. If nothing more he is in my opinion a classic lying politician. ( an example of saying one thing then doing another : insert any politician claiming they won't raise your taxes during there campaign to be elected , later getting elected and then going ahead and raising your taxes. )
3: bonus round! To answer the last question there are also a lot of lying classic politicians in the GOP and Republican Party. Many are known as rino's . Mitch McConnell and Joe Biden could be twins if they didn't have different political parties. Both are establishment classic politicians of their respective parties. However no GOP president at current could do anything to fix the corruption so to speak without the backing of their said political party. By all statements and accounts Donald Trump is the opposite of that because he's anti-establishment. Donald Trump has enemies in the GOP and the Republican party as well as the Democratic Party, make no mistake about that. Even if Donald Trump does win this next election he's only got 4 years to do anything with it. Most of the time that he will be in office as POTUS , he will be undoing all of the things that Joe Biden did in his presidency and attempting to return to his America's first agenda. His first agenda of getting illegal aliens out of the country will take a good portion of his time as POTUS to do so. 4 years later if the establishment government is still the same as it was today I see a return to " The Swamp " with business as usual agenda driven politicians behind the wheel.
In my opinion the two reasons I stated above are basically that Joe Biden is a common career politician motivated exclusively by the fact that he follows his political party's agenda. His party's agenda is completely the opposite of the GOP party, and in my opinion the economic downturn of America and the current political and worldwide landscape is further evidence of my theory. My opinion is that Joe Biden was corrupt as a senator he's even worse as a vice president or POTUS. I saw personal benefit while Donald Trump was in office ( even if it wasn't a perfect solution ) , and appreciated the America First agenda. It's one of the reasons I wanted it to continue and that's one of the reasons I definitely did not want to see Joe Biden in office.
I just want to ask about #2 - you don’t like Biden because he embellishes? And you will vote for Trump? I’m not claiming you’re wrong, because Biden does indeed embellish. (Although the stories about Cornpop have been verified and corroborated.) But Trump has outright lied, flagrantly and provably. Not just embellishing and stretching the truth, but saying things that he knows outright are false. And a lot. Dozens of times per week during his presidency. Those two positions (“Biden lies, but I support Trump”) are not compatible.
For a (touche) moment... Ill agree with you BUT I was answering the above question, however does Trump lie was your question? If I'm understanding correctly this is the gist of the question why should I vote for X candidate ( or Trump in this instance ) when they flagrantly lie consistently?
Well the answer is... Everybody lies , you , Me , my pastor , my teacher , my brother , my sister ....etc... We are human after all . However Politicians lie in spades and shades of degrees higher than most ( see above example about raising taxes for example ) . Trump or Biden are no exception in this case.
I still have to vote for someone . In this case I'm going to vote for the person that is the lesser likely of the two evils in my opinion. Do I have a third option besides RFK Jr? Do I have a fourth fifth or 6th option for that matter? They may exist but they're not mainstream. So I'm left with two choices. Being a TS does not actually mean im blind. There are flaws in both candidates I can never overlook. In my opinion the lesser of the two evils is Donald Trump. There were indeed advantages to Donald Trump being president in my opinion, that being the economy and production of goods and services. You don't support Trump, I get that. So vote your conscience . However to answer the above question from the very beginning of this segment my answer is to get rid of Biden as quickly as possible . Biden to me is not a good candidate for president. I always ask for a better choice it doesn't have to be Trump.
Hey, thanks for the detailed reply!
1. I largely agree with you here; I think people who live in Washington stop being effective understanding the pulse and direction of the country. It becomes a job, and it seems like they spend most of their time not doing actual work. I'd say people's view on the economy largely depends on your situation. But I agree, if people feel like they can't afford things, it will leave them feeling like the economy is bad, regardless if there are plenty of jobs available.
2. lol, 100% am with you. I find that behavior distasteful as well, and let's be honest, Biden is certainly not alone here (*cough cough .. Trump)*. Did you hear Trump is now claiming he never said to lock up Hillary? Also, what taxes did Joe Biden raise? I
3. So I find this part super interesting. I can honestly see the appeal of 2016 Trump, because he was an outsider and had strong views on most issues (not that I agreed with many of them). Speaking of the swamp, what did Trump do to drain it during his time?
Regarding illegals, how do you view Trump's performance while in office? His numbers are largely the same as Obama's second term.
Why do you care about the Second Amendment? Do you regularly need to defend yourself with a firearm, or are you a member of a militia that needs to defend the country from foreign invasions?
How would you reconcile these two facts?
1) The National Debt accumulated during Trump is roughly the same as the projected accumulation during Biden.
2) Trump banned bump stocks, Biden has zero gun related bans
1) Nation debt under Trump including a great deal of borrowing in response to Covid. Tremendous money was borrowed and given away by multiple rounds of stimulus. This was supported by both Democrats and Republicans. Pelosi wanted significantly more spending. McConnell was opposed at the end. I am thinking of the last round before the Georgia runoff election for Senate. Trump ended up supporting that round, I suspect as a bid to influence GA voters. This debt would have happened regardless of which party held the Office. Using this spending as an example of excessive spending under a Republican is disingenuous.
2) Yes he did. And was taken to the woodshed for it. I do not believe Trump will make this mistake again. I believe Biden very much wants to enact strict gun control His nominees for the Director of the ATF have all been very much in favor of stricter control. Nominee Chipman was especially egregious. In fact, ATF Director Dettelbach could not answer a very simple hypothetical "engaged in the business" question from Congress. Please do not pretend that Biden specifically, or the Democratic party generally, are anything but hostile to the Second Amendment.
> I believe Biden very much wants to enact strict gun control
Dude’s 3.5 years into his term, when will these restrictions be brought up and attempted to be put into legislation?
1. It sounds like you were ok with the spending, because of Covid? Since you don't like my question about pure debt, how would you compare the fiscal policies of Trump vs Biden (in whatever metrics you use, personally)?
2. So no gun related bans, just talk? Like every Democratic politician?
Are you tired of winning? Are you saying "sir sir...we are tired of winning... please, no more winning"? As he said you would. Are you actually tired of so much winning? Couldn't you do a little more winning? Just a tiny bit?
Too soft on crime, yet you guys are angry when Trump’s crimes are punished? Maybe just too soft on crime as it relates to…..people who possess marijuana?
> Fiscal policies
Have you seen Trump's deficit and budget while in office before COVID?
> Gun control
I'll tacitly agree with you, but Trump passed one of the most major gun restrictions in recent times (bump stock ban), as well as having infamous quotes like "take the guns first, due process second." How do you reconcile that belief with those points?
> Poor border control
Like the bill that Republicans wrote, Dems agreed to, but then tanked so that Trump could use it as a talking point?
> Energy policy
We produced more crude oil in 2023 than ever before in US history. Or is this about the tax breaks for solar?
> Too soft on crime
I'll give you this one. Like how Trump said that anyone who burns the American flag should have their citizenship revoked or jailed for a year. Or how protestors should be "roughed up" when they get arrested. Or the entirety of the Lafayette Square debacle. Those crimes, right? The ones that are protected by the first amendment? If not those ones, which crimes specifically?
For fiscal policies, just excessive spending and debt accumulation.
I would be interested in what a pro 2nd Democrat has to say. However, I believe the party Party has positioned itself for additional gun control and I just don't see a pro 2A member rising high.
Are you aware that, over the past 40 years, the national debt has skyrocketed during Republican presidential terms? Did you know that the only president to see a balanced budget in that time was Democratic? Have you seen how many trillions of dollars the Trump tax cut alone has added to the national debt?
Who is telling you that Democratic presidents increase the national debt, and why do you believe their lies?
>I know both options may sound redundant
Not at all! It's a good question.
It's more important for me to get Trump in. That is because he represents a threat to the corrupt deep state, and addressing that is my first priority.
What is the deep state? What actions will Trump make to eliminate/minimize the deep state? When did the deep state begin? How would one know once the deep state has been eliminated/minimized?
The deep State isn't a conspiracy it's just a catch-all term for people with careers in politics who aren't elected.
Members of the department of education and CIA, FBI, agriculture department ECT.
I'm sure you as most Americans are concerned about a military-industrial complex this is the government part of that.
Heck I even know two people personally I would consider part of the deep State even if just a small part.
The point is not that the deep State needs to be gotten rid of, we just need powers to be concentrated back to elected positions. This is what the EPA supreme Court case was about. The EPA had effective legislating power they would be part of the deep state.
Lol downvote a Trump argument cause you can't refute it.
It was easier when you thought we were all stupid right?
FBI, ACA, EPA, whatever Obama put in for finances.
I'm just looking through his first 10 executive orders.
Trump's new majority SCOTUS has slapped Biden down who was using the EPA and OSHA to overreach
>Should every government position require an election?
Nice straw man not what I'm suggesting.
I'm suggesting the ATF can't write a letter and change the definition of the law.
>Should trump have the ability to hire his own staff should he win the presidency?
What are you talking about? He'll have all the powers of President like he had the last time. He'll pick his cabinet of course.
In a prior comment you defined the deep state as people with careers in politics who aren’t elected.
>he’ll have all the powers of President like he has the last time. He’ll pick his cabinet of course
Would you consider that cabinet or any Trump appointed positions part of the deep state?
Trump appointed more than 200 judges to the federal bench and as many federal appeals court judges in four years as Obama did in eight. Are those judges part of the deep state?
Sure, there's private parties that contribute to the corruption. That's the "industrial" part of the military industrial complex.
I'm not particularly concerned about them because unless there is power to buy, they spend their money elsewhere.
Full disclosure I don't have any familiarity with Bannon
> Full disclosure I don't have any familiarity with Bannon
Do you think it’d be a good idea to familiarize yourself with someone who worked on Trump’s campaign and worked as The White House’s Chief Strategist during Trump’s presidency?
No, politics isn't my life. I'm not watching this like the Kardashians, didn't watch that either.
If there's something important I'll learn about it. So far all I've heard is his name and position.
This is the product of TDS, you guys cry wolf so many times that you've exhausted everyone's ability to pay attention because it keeps coming up sensationalized.
You think knowing about Steve Bannon is the result of "TDS"?
Bro, Steve Bannon is a major political power broker who worked in the White House and on Trump's campaign as CEO. He was chairman of Brietbart and was on the board at Cambridge Analytica. He held (and perhaps still does) and amazing amount influence over Trump.
I'm flabbergasted there are people here who post as Trump supporters and dismiss people who know about Steve Bannon as "TDS". When you say, "if there's something important I'll learn about it", I call bullshit. Steve Bannon is a hugely important part of Trump and his politics. The fact that you don't know who he is, is concerning as I don't think you really have a good concept of Trump politics.
Lol look at how many people upvote deliberate misinterpretation of what Trump supporters believe on a subreddit called ask Trump supporters...
I guess that's reddit for you
By that definition, I'm not sure what Trump really has any influence on. Him being president didn't change any positions to being elected rather than appointed. How did he consolidate elected official power over government employees?
>By that definition, I'm not sure what Trump really has any influence on.
The same influence Obama had when he stopped federal enforcement of marijuana laws.
The head of the executive branch can effectively dissolve these organizations. I'm not suggesting it necessarily, but there's a lot that's possible.
If the deep state are unelected positions that wield power in the government and the goal is to give that power back to elected positions are you worried about stalemate in congress will prevent stuff from getting done? Let’s take child marriage should be easy to ban that and yet we have t been able to because of elected officials, do you want that to be similar when we talk about dealing with everything?
>Who runs the deep state
Their own interests.
This is people trying to save their jobs and keep themselves important.
Heard the story of how the ATF went after marijuana after prohibition ended? That's the thing we're talking about.
This is entrenched corruption it's not a conspiracy.
>how do they always seem to be so aligned to specifically against Trump?
Because Trump is a threat to their power.
There was a British intelligence analyst whistleblower who said she received instructions to create a counter disinformation project to stop a "repeat of 2016" meaning Trump's election and brexit.
2016 was a big shock to the establishment and traditional ways of keeping power. Social media made it so anyone even a buffoon like Trump can become president.
Can't let that happen so we better start cracking down on rights further galvanizing and increasing the size of Trump's base. I've been trying to talk across the isle for years but all I've gotten is nastiness in return.
The conviction crashing Trump's donation site is a perfect example.
>Couldn’t you make the same argument about anyone now supporting Trump?
Who are you talking about?
Lots of people have motivations to save their job I don't care in most cases except when they wield the power of the government and aren't elected.
You're trolling
Eight years ago, I thought that Trump's opponents would be able to dug up some skeletons in his closet. They have failed to do so.
None of this year's cases have any merit. With the FISA spying and all the data available to the CIA, it is hard to believe anyone is sitting on incriminating information .
Skeletons other than the 1 conviction, 3 criminal cases pending, multiple civil cases adjudicated and a laundry list of scandals and character defects?
Is it okay to admit that the goalposts have been moved massively in favor of Trump? I’m okay with the justification that things have just gotten so bad that it’s necessary to overlook or embrace the flaws (though i disagree that things are so bad or that Trump is the solution to anything), but to make him out as a saint who doesn’t demean and divide people an order of magnitude more than any other politician in living memory…seems like a tall order, no?
Can you name another president that hid documents and directed his lawyers to file false affidavits certifying that they returned all documents? Or try to hide security tapes to cover it up?
Fair question. Prior to him taking office during his first term I did not have as strong of an opinion on the deep state as I do now, after having seen everything that they have done to him both while in office and after. I now believe it is far worse than I ever imagined, and my urgency for addressing the problem is much higher. I think the same goes for Trump himself, as he has stated a similar opinion.
Before you ask what they did, I could tell you but I've been down this road with many NS and you probable won't agree. For example, you probably don't agree that the Russia collusion story was all made up to try to get him out of office. The dossier that set it all in motion has been thoroughly discredited, and its genesis links to a company that did research for the Clinton campaign. I guess my point is, I'm not interested in arguing the points since it never resolves anything.
> I’m not interested in arguing these points
Isn’t that the point of being here? I’m genuinely curious to hear what Trump did last term to fight this supposed deep state, why you think he failed, and why we should expect different results next time?
I don't think Trump knew how bad it was until it was too late and too many people around him were stifling any efforts in that area. And the deep state did a good job keeping his tied up in controversy and on the defensive. Hopefully with a second term he can apply lessons learned.
Making sure the people that say that half the population of the country are extremists don't get their way so that they can't treat me like an extremist.
I'm legit confused about this. All I hear from the right is literally "the extreme left"... often shouted from jacked up trucks covered in Trump stickers flying flags of all sorts.
Have you ever seen a similar Biden rig?
Biden = status quo plus not-disparaging woke activists. Both of those things are crazy to silently accept.
So yeah, Biden supporters aren't driving around with political activism. Almost wish they were. Instead they are like "stop calling out the powers that be"
I can give one well known example to start: recycling programs make people feel like they are doing good (or bad for not recycling), but actually I think it's just a distraction and reform is needed in industrial pollution.
Hi tech rich elite catering to people's sensibilities while we all slow roll into death.
Here is a very different angle: a school district debated changing their name away from a known slave owner. It was a huge issue, had a lot of campaigning (and funding) and time of public servants spent on it. They should be spending that time on bettering the student experience. At the same time millions of dollars were wasted on a new HR system that got trashed a few years later. But the narrative focused on evil school names instead.
An example: a school district debated changing the name of a school away from a known slave owner. It was a huge issue, had a lot of campaigning (and funding) and time of public servants spent on it. But, They should be spending that time on bettering the student experience. At the same time millions of dollars were wasted on a new HR system that got trashed a few years later. But the narrative focused on evil school names instead. Woke.
Here is a different angle: recycling programs make people feel like they are doing good (or bad for not recycling), but actually I think it's just a distraction and reform is needed in industrial pollution. Catering to people's desire to feel morally righteous while ignoring real issues. Woke.
For one, Hillary branding half the country as deplorables was enough to lose her the election.
How about [this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10763974/) government published study explaining that Maga Republicans are more likely to be an extremist?
I'm not sure where to take this, but... have you listened to what. Trump says about anyone not 100% on board with Trump? He literally dumps on anyone he feels isn't fully loyal (a truly god awful trait when it comes to politics), and even worse to anyone on the left. And your concern is Hillary labeling people deplorable? Does that feel one sided to you?
I don’t understand how the conversation got that far off topic, let me rephrase. The original commenter was speaking about T supporters claiming the left is extremist, yet no one is commenting about how the right has extremists as well. I was pointing out that people do point out that the right has many extremists, due to cable news. When asked for examples I provided both a viewpoint among Democrats that was espoused by their nominee in 2016 as well as a government published study surrounding “extremist” Maga republicans. All that going towards the one sidedness of both sides
Judges can be a lot more “fair” than a trial. They can actually do some objective analysis and determine if everything was followed. Especially when it’s a high court appeal panel - their job is to just look at cases and determine if everything was proper.
As great as a jury trial is… there are flaws in how it gets executed sometimes… and that’s why we have appeals.
What does it mean to be compromised by the national security state? How do you know Trump is not compromised, given he was President too?
When did you become against national security?
Biden running a government of fascists is Bidens fault.
And I'm not sure what you mean my biden derangement syndrome, my only guess is thats a reference to biden supposedly being so mentally incompetent he cant stand trial for his crimes as reported by the special counsel. Personally even if he is mentally deranged he still has sadistic tendencies and is an evil man (which is why his supporters love him as they love cruelty) I still think he deserves accountability but in this fascist state he will continue to face none.
I need actual evidence to believe things, yes. Innuendo isn't enough, right? Talking heads on TV, YouTube, TikTok, podcasts, or AM radio isn't enough, right?
Why would you ever believe something without evidence?
What does it look like to be compromised by the deep state? To me it seems like enacting policies to help only the rich while hurting others. Let's look at some of Trump's policies:
- tax cuts for the rich while raising taxes for the middle class
- make deals with big oil and promise to ban EV's for personal gain
- making cuts to pandemic prevention before Covid
- making cuts to railroad regulation to help oligarchs and causing an increase in train derailments
Why is it easier to believe that a man who is openly for policies that benefit only oligarchs, isn't working for the oligarchs?
While also believing that the same man who has broken the law many times in his life is being persecuted for reasons besides breaking the law?
Bad question: Getting Biden out could be way more important, but it depends on who gets in there instead. Hilary? I'd prefer Biden. At least he's senile.
Likewise, Trump isn't the best, he's just not what the media says, and better than Biden.
Getting rid of Biden. There's likely to be 2, maybe even 4 seats opening on SCOTUS. It's imperative to cement a conservative majority for the next few decades.
Getting biden out given he has set this country on a path to destruction. Just think about it, democrats went from wanting to build a wall in the '90s to happily importing illegals including terrorists into the country.
How much do you care about seeing them simply go to jail, or the process being constitutional? When you say democrats; do you mean elected official, people working in the party; or voters?
Democratic politicians who have committed crimes. Obama killed an American with a drone strike - he should be prosecuted for that. God knows all the laws Hillary Clinton has broken. Biden's corruption - "10% for the big guy" - let's go. Let's get it all out.
Ok so if you convict democrats who broke the law what’s the end goal? Do you think normal democrats will be all dismayed? I don’t think many democrats would take it as personal as TS seem to be taking trumps guilty verdict.
What’s most important is getting these career politicians out of DC.
It’ll never happen unfortunately, but we need term limits to clear out the corruption.
for me: neither. I want whoever advances the country in the right direction. Honestly they are both retarded at some fundamental level. But the USA was better when Trump was in.
I honestly don't know why the left hates him so bad. He's actually pretty centrist compared to someone like Desantis etc.
But given my choice right now: Trump did a better job with the economy. Inflation is CRUSHING Americans. High costs are hurting everyone. The open border is literally getting Americans killed.
So getting trump back will help all of us. Not because it's trump, but because I think his policies are generally better for America than Biden.
Biden is honestly acting like a fascist and has been for a couple years.
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It is more important to be to get Biden out, and to prevent the Presidency to be held by a Democrat. I would much prefer Haley to be the candidate. Since that did not happen, I must support Trump. I do not think Trump is a great person, but this is where we are and where we have been for 2016 & 2020.
[удалено]
I do not understand your comment.
Not that person, but if I may.. what's your top 2 issues with Biden? And what would you like to see happen? Or, how would a GOP president accomplish what you'd like to see happen?
1 of 2 : He is a career politician with over 5 decades of public service , 4 decades of public service as a senator. 8 as a vice president , almost 4 as a potus. Mostly all of that time involved following establishment and party guidelines ( playing party politics and voting with the party interests ) never actually accomplishing anything in my opinion or actually introducing laws or bills into the system. Except the crime bill. Which was highly criticized and ridiculed. As vice president and POTUS he's been literally a puppet in office still following his party policies and agenda. His actual contributions are actually quite small and very underwhelming as POTUS. Claiming job growth and "a booming economy" doesn't offset the high inflation and high interest rates , not to mention the high cost of living , that seem to cancel these things out. Again just my opinion but nobody cares about high job growth and a booming economy when they can't afford groceries. 2. A much younger Joe Biden running for senator at the time , claimed all a lot of educational experience in college that later proved to be untrue. Joe Biden in a nutshell loves to embellish his past and tries to produce a positive image of himself by quite honestly just lying about it. His tall tails about being Scranton Joe and his altercations with Corn Pop are legendary. In Joe Biden's mind this is perfectly normal because he has always said one thing politically and then gone in the complete opposite direction of it. Before the internet and before instant information to be able to fact check a person in real time it was normal for senators to embellish. Joe Biden is nothing more than a creature of habit if anything else. To him embellishment is perfectly normal. If nothing more he is in my opinion a classic lying politician. ( an example of saying one thing then doing another : insert any politician claiming they won't raise your taxes during there campaign to be elected , later getting elected and then going ahead and raising your taxes. ) 3: bonus round! To answer the last question there are also a lot of lying classic politicians in the GOP and Republican Party. Many are known as rino's . Mitch McConnell and Joe Biden could be twins if they didn't have different political parties. Both are establishment classic politicians of their respective parties. However no GOP president at current could do anything to fix the corruption so to speak without the backing of their said political party. By all statements and accounts Donald Trump is the opposite of that because he's anti-establishment. Donald Trump has enemies in the GOP and the Republican party as well as the Democratic Party, make no mistake about that. Even if Donald Trump does win this next election he's only got 4 years to do anything with it. Most of the time that he will be in office as POTUS , he will be undoing all of the things that Joe Biden did in his presidency and attempting to return to his America's first agenda. His first agenda of getting illegal aliens out of the country will take a good portion of his time as POTUS to do so. 4 years later if the establishment government is still the same as it was today I see a return to " The Swamp " with business as usual agenda driven politicians behind the wheel. In my opinion the two reasons I stated above are basically that Joe Biden is a common career politician motivated exclusively by the fact that he follows his political party's agenda. His party's agenda is completely the opposite of the GOP party, and in my opinion the economic downturn of America and the current political and worldwide landscape is further evidence of my theory. My opinion is that Joe Biden was corrupt as a senator he's even worse as a vice president or POTUS. I saw personal benefit while Donald Trump was in office ( even if it wasn't a perfect solution ) , and appreciated the America First agenda. It's one of the reasons I wanted it to continue and that's one of the reasons I definitely did not want to see Joe Biden in office.
I just want to ask about #2 - you don’t like Biden because he embellishes? And you will vote for Trump? I’m not claiming you’re wrong, because Biden does indeed embellish. (Although the stories about Cornpop have been verified and corroborated.) But Trump has outright lied, flagrantly and provably. Not just embellishing and stretching the truth, but saying things that he knows outright are false. And a lot. Dozens of times per week during his presidency. Those two positions (“Biden lies, but I support Trump”) are not compatible.
For a (touche) moment... Ill agree with you BUT I was answering the above question, however does Trump lie was your question? If I'm understanding correctly this is the gist of the question why should I vote for X candidate ( or Trump in this instance ) when they flagrantly lie consistently? Well the answer is... Everybody lies , you , Me , my pastor , my teacher , my brother , my sister ....etc... We are human after all . However Politicians lie in spades and shades of degrees higher than most ( see above example about raising taxes for example ) . Trump or Biden are no exception in this case. I still have to vote for someone . In this case I'm going to vote for the person that is the lesser likely of the two evils in my opinion. Do I have a third option besides RFK Jr? Do I have a fourth fifth or 6th option for that matter? They may exist but they're not mainstream. So I'm left with two choices. Being a TS does not actually mean im blind. There are flaws in both candidates I can never overlook. In my opinion the lesser of the two evils is Donald Trump. There were indeed advantages to Donald Trump being president in my opinion, that being the economy and production of goods and services. You don't support Trump, I get that. So vote your conscience . However to answer the above question from the very beginning of this segment my answer is to get rid of Biden as quickly as possible . Biden to me is not a good candidate for president. I always ask for a better choice it doesn't have to be Trump.
Hey, thanks for the detailed reply! 1. I largely agree with you here; I think people who live in Washington stop being effective understanding the pulse and direction of the country. It becomes a job, and it seems like they spend most of their time not doing actual work. I'd say people's view on the economy largely depends on your situation. But I agree, if people feel like they can't afford things, it will leave them feeling like the economy is bad, regardless if there are plenty of jobs available. 2. lol, 100% am with you. I find that behavior distasteful as well, and let's be honest, Biden is certainly not alone here (*cough cough .. Trump)*. Did you hear Trump is now claiming he never said to lock up Hillary? Also, what taxes did Joe Biden raise? I 3. So I find this part super interesting. I can honestly see the appeal of 2016 Trump, because he was an outsider and had strong views on most issues (not that I agreed with many of them). Speaking of the swamp, what did Trump do to drain it during his time? Regarding illegals, how do you view Trump's performance while in office? His numbers are largely the same as Obama's second term.
Narrowing it down to two? 1) Fiscal policy 2) 2A (gun control) Probably my top two.
Why do you care about the Second Amendment? Do you regularly need to defend yourself with a firearm, or are you a member of a militia that needs to defend the country from foreign invasions?
Are you in the wealthiest 5% of the country?
No.
How would you reconcile these two facts? 1) The National Debt accumulated during Trump is roughly the same as the projected accumulation during Biden. 2) Trump banned bump stocks, Biden has zero gun related bans
1) Nation debt under Trump including a great deal of borrowing in response to Covid. Tremendous money was borrowed and given away by multiple rounds of stimulus. This was supported by both Democrats and Republicans. Pelosi wanted significantly more spending. McConnell was opposed at the end. I am thinking of the last round before the Georgia runoff election for Senate. Trump ended up supporting that round, I suspect as a bid to influence GA voters. This debt would have happened regardless of which party held the Office. Using this spending as an example of excessive spending under a Republican is disingenuous. 2) Yes he did. And was taken to the woodshed for it. I do not believe Trump will make this mistake again. I believe Biden very much wants to enact strict gun control His nominees for the Director of the ATF have all been very much in favor of stricter control. Nominee Chipman was especially egregious. In fact, ATF Director Dettelbach could not answer a very simple hypothetical "engaged in the business" question from Congress. Please do not pretend that Biden specifically, or the Democratic party generally, are anything but hostile to the Second Amendment.
> I believe Biden very much wants to enact strict gun control Dude’s 3.5 years into his term, when will these restrictions be brought up and attempted to be put into legislation?
1. It sounds like you were ok with the spending, because of Covid? Since you don't like my question about pure debt, how would you compare the fiscal policies of Trump vs Biden (in whatever metrics you use, personally)? 2. So no gun related bans, just talk? Like every Democratic politician?
Don't you think that Bidens got bigger fish to fry/legislative agenda than 2A?
No, no I don't. I believe Biden very much wants more gun control.
He certainly pays lip service to it anyway. Are you against background checks for all gun sales?
Are you tired of winning? Are you saying "sir sir...we are tired of winning... please, no more winning"? As he said you would. Are you actually tired of so much winning? Couldn't you do a little more winning? Just a tiny bit?
Im honestly curious, what makes democrats so bad?
Fiscal policies. Gun control. Poor border control. Energy policy. Too soft on crime.
Too soft on crime, yet you guys are angry when Trump’s crimes are punished? Maybe just too soft on crime as it relates to…..people who possess marijuana?
> Fiscal policies Have you seen Trump's deficit and budget while in office before COVID? > Gun control I'll tacitly agree with you, but Trump passed one of the most major gun restrictions in recent times (bump stock ban), as well as having infamous quotes like "take the guns first, due process second." How do you reconcile that belief with those points? > Poor border control Like the bill that Republicans wrote, Dems agreed to, but then tanked so that Trump could use it as a talking point? > Energy policy We produced more crude oil in 2023 than ever before in US history. Or is this about the tax breaks for solar? > Too soft on crime I'll give you this one. Like how Trump said that anyone who burns the American flag should have their citizenship revoked or jailed for a year. Or how protestors should be "roughed up" when they get arrested. Or the entirety of the Lafayette Square debacle. Those crimes, right? The ones that are protected by the first amendment? If not those ones, which crimes specifically?
What fiscal policies? Would you support a pro 2nd Democrat?
For fiscal policies, just excessive spending and debt accumulation. I would be interested in what a pro 2nd Democrat has to say. However, I believe the party Party has positioned itself for additional gun control and I just don't see a pro 2A member rising high.
Are you aware that, over the past 40 years, the national debt has skyrocketed during Republican presidential terms? Did you know that the only president to see a balanced budget in that time was Democratic? Have you seen how many trillions of dollars the Trump tax cut alone has added to the national debt? Who is telling you that Democratic presidents increase the national debt, and why do you believe their lies?
>I know both options may sound redundant Not at all! It's a good question. It's more important for me to get Trump in. That is because he represents a threat to the corrupt deep state, and addressing that is my first priority.
How do you feel about Project 2025?
What is the deep state? What actions will Trump make to eliminate/minimize the deep state? When did the deep state begin? How would one know once the deep state has been eliminated/minimized?
Name someone who is part of the deep state?
The deep State isn't a conspiracy it's just a catch-all term for people with careers in politics who aren't elected. Members of the department of education and CIA, FBI, agriculture department ECT. I'm sure you as most Americans are concerned about a military-industrial complex this is the government part of that. Heck I even know two people personally I would consider part of the deep State even if just a small part. The point is not that the deep State needs to be gotten rid of, we just need powers to be concentrated back to elected positions. This is what the EPA supreme Court case was about. The EPA had effective legislating power they would be part of the deep state. Lol downvote a Trump argument cause you can't refute it. It was easier when you thought we were all stupid right?
What parts of the deep state did Trump successfully get rid of or remove power from during his first term?
FBI, ACA, EPA, whatever Obama put in for finances. I'm just looking through his first 10 executive orders. Trump's new majority SCOTUS has slapped Biden down who was using the EPA and OSHA to overreach
Wouldn’t the judges appointed by Trump be considered his own “deep state”?
Judges are constitutional positions I don't consider them deep state. I don't think you're getting the idea of deep state.
Should every government position require an election? Should trump have the ability to hire his own staff should he win the presidency?
>Should every government position require an election? Nice straw man not what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting the ATF can't write a letter and change the definition of the law. >Should trump have the ability to hire his own staff should he win the presidency? What are you talking about? He'll have all the powers of President like he had the last time. He'll pick his cabinet of course.
In a prior comment you defined the deep state as people with careers in politics who aren’t elected. >he’ll have all the powers of President like he has the last time. He’ll pick his cabinet of course Would you consider that cabinet or any Trump appointed positions part of the deep state? Trump appointed more than 200 judges to the federal bench and as many federal appeals court judges in four years as Obama did in eight. Are those judges part of the deep state?
Do you consider non-government officials who help dictate policy to be part of the "deep state"? A Steve Bannon, for example.
Sure, there's private parties that contribute to the corruption. That's the "industrial" part of the military industrial complex. I'm not particularly concerned about them because unless there is power to buy, they spend their money elsewhere. Full disclosure I don't have any familiarity with Bannon
> Full disclosure I don't have any familiarity with Bannon Do you think it’d be a good idea to familiarize yourself with someone who worked on Trump’s campaign and worked as The White House’s Chief Strategist during Trump’s presidency?
No, politics isn't my life. I'm not watching this like the Kardashians, didn't watch that either. If there's something important I'll learn about it. So far all I've heard is his name and position. This is the product of TDS, you guys cry wolf so many times that you've exhausted everyone's ability to pay attention because it keeps coming up sensationalized.
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You think knowing about Steve Bannon is the result of "TDS"? Bro, Steve Bannon is a major political power broker who worked in the White House and on Trump's campaign as CEO. He was chairman of Brietbart and was on the board at Cambridge Analytica. He held (and perhaps still does) and amazing amount influence over Trump. I'm flabbergasted there are people here who post as Trump supporters and dismiss people who know about Steve Bannon as "TDS". When you say, "if there's something important I'll learn about it", I call bullshit. Steve Bannon is a hugely important part of Trump and his politics. The fact that you don't know who he is, is concerning as I don't think you really have a good concept of Trump politics.
Lol look at how many people upvote deliberate misinterpretation of what Trump supporters believe on a subreddit called ask Trump supporters... I guess that's reddit for you
By that definition, I'm not sure what Trump really has any influence on. Him being president didn't change any positions to being elected rather than appointed. How did he consolidate elected official power over government employees?
>By that definition, I'm not sure what Trump really has any influence on. The same influence Obama had when he stopped federal enforcement of marijuana laws. The head of the executive branch can effectively dissolve these organizations. I'm not suggesting it necessarily, but there's a lot that's possible.
Are you sure that isn’t just the regular state?
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If the deep state are unelected positions that wield power in the government and the goal is to give that power back to elected positions are you worried about stalemate in congress will prevent stuff from getting done? Let’s take child marriage should be easy to ban that and yet we have t been able to because of elected officials, do you want that to be similar when we talk about dealing with everything?
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You don’t think liberals would just elect new leaders with the same policy positions?
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So does the deep state ever act for your benefit?
why are trump supporters so fascinated with eunuchs?
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why is eunuch your word of choice?
Yes very, assuming you mean democracy by regular state.
Who runs the deep state and how do they always seem to be so aligned to specifically against Trump?
>Who runs the deep state Their own interests. This is people trying to save their jobs and keep themselves important. Heard the story of how the ATF went after marijuana after prohibition ended? That's the thing we're talking about. This is entrenched corruption it's not a conspiracy. >how do they always seem to be so aligned to specifically against Trump? Because Trump is a threat to their power. There was a British intelligence analyst whistleblower who said she received instructions to create a counter disinformation project to stop a "repeat of 2016" meaning Trump's election and brexit. 2016 was a big shock to the establishment and traditional ways of keeping power. Social media made it so anyone even a buffoon like Trump can become president. Can't let that happen so we better start cracking down on rights further galvanizing and increasing the size of Trump's base. I've been trying to talk across the isle for years but all I've gotten is nastiness in return. The conviction crashing Trump's donation site is a perfect example.
>this is people trying to save their jobs and keep themselves important Couldn’t you make the same argument about anyone now supporting Trump?
>Couldn’t you make the same argument about anyone now supporting Trump? Who are you talking about? Lots of people have motivations to save their job I don't care in most cases except when they wield the power of the government and aren't elected. You're trolling
Do you feel Trumps is in any way corrupt or is that just the corrupt system trying to paint him dirty?
Eight years ago, I thought that Trump's opponents would be able to dug up some skeletons in his closet. They have failed to do so. None of this year's cases have any merit. With the FISA spying and all the data available to the CIA, it is hard to believe anyone is sitting on incriminating information .
Skeletons other than the 1 conviction, 3 criminal cases pending, multiple civil cases adjudicated and a laundry list of scandals and character defects? Is it okay to admit that the goalposts have been moved massively in favor of Trump? I’m okay with the justification that things have just gotten so bad that it’s necessary to overlook or embrace the flaws (though i disagree that things are so bad or that Trump is the solution to anything), but to make him out as a saint who doesn’t demean and divide people an order of magnitude more than any other politician in living memory…seems like a tall order, no?
Seems pretty clear that he took national security documents that weren’t his. Why no merit with that case?
Name a recent president or vice president who didn’t. There’s your answer. They all have.
Can you name any presidents that refused to comply with year-long requests and subpoenas to return said documents?
No one cared to until it was Trump.
Can you name another president that refused to return national security documents?
Again, no one cared until Trump. That how we know it’s a witch hunt.
Can you name another president that hid documents and directed his lawyers to file false affidavits certifying that they returned all documents? Or try to hide security tapes to cover it up?
Can you name a recent (or any really) president or vice president that refused to give them back after being requested to?
Trump is the only one, correct?
Heard the same thing prior to Trump being elected. How do you think he fought the “deep state” during the 4 years he was in office?
Fair question. Prior to him taking office during his first term I did not have as strong of an opinion on the deep state as I do now, after having seen everything that they have done to him both while in office and after. I now believe it is far worse than I ever imagined, and my urgency for addressing the problem is much higher. I think the same goes for Trump himself, as he has stated a similar opinion. Before you ask what they did, I could tell you but I've been down this road with many NS and you probable won't agree. For example, you probably don't agree that the Russia collusion story was all made up to try to get him out of office. The dossier that set it all in motion has been thoroughly discredited, and its genesis links to a company that did research for the Clinton campaign. I guess my point is, I'm not interested in arguing the points since it never resolves anything.
> I’m not interested in arguing these points Isn’t that the point of being here? I’m genuinely curious to hear what Trump did last term to fight this supposed deep state, why you think he failed, and why we should expect different results next time?
I don't think Trump knew how bad it was until it was too late and too many people around him were stifling any efforts in that area. And the deep state did a good job keeping his tied up in controversy and on the defensive. Hopefully with a second term he can apply lessons learned.
What was it in Trumps history that indicated to you that he would be a crusader for America to root out the deep state?
Can you describe the corrupt deep state? Who's in it, what are their goals, how Trump wouldn't be a part of it as a billionaire?
Making sure the people that say that half the population of the country are extremists don't get their way so that they can't treat me like an extremist.
I'm legit confused about this. All I hear from the right is literally "the extreme left"... often shouted from jacked up trucks covered in Trump stickers flying flags of all sorts. Have you ever seen a similar Biden rig?
Biden = status quo plus not-disparaging woke activists. Both of those things are crazy to silently accept. So yeah, Biden supporters aren't driving around with political activism. Almost wish they were. Instead they are like "stop calling out the powers that be"
What is wrong with social consciousness, and how have the left pushed it? 🤔
I can give one well known example to start: recycling programs make people feel like they are doing good (or bad for not recycling), but actually I think it's just a distraction and reform is needed in industrial pollution. Hi tech rich elite catering to people's sensibilities while we all slow roll into death. Here is a very different angle: a school district debated changing their name away from a known slave owner. It was a huge issue, had a lot of campaigning (and funding) and time of public servants spent on it. They should be spending that time on bettering the student experience. At the same time millions of dollars were wasted on a new HR system that got trashed a few years later. But the narrative focused on evil school names instead.
What does woke mean to you?
An example: a school district debated changing the name of a school away from a known slave owner. It was a huge issue, had a lot of campaigning (and funding) and time of public servants spent on it. But, They should be spending that time on bettering the student experience. At the same time millions of dollars were wasted on a new HR system that got trashed a few years later. But the narrative focused on evil school names instead. Woke. Here is a different angle: recycling programs make people feel like they are doing good (or bad for not recycling), but actually I think it's just a distraction and reform is needed in industrial pollution. Catering to people's desire to feel morally righteous while ignoring real issues. Woke.
Ever watched cable news lately?
Would you mind sharing some specific examples?
For one, Hillary branding half the country as deplorables was enough to lose her the election. How about [this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10763974/) government published study explaining that Maga Republicans are more likely to be an extremist?
I'm not sure where to take this, but... have you listened to what. Trump says about anyone not 100% on board with Trump? He literally dumps on anyone he feels isn't fully loyal (a truly god awful trait when it comes to politics), and even worse to anyone on the left. And your concern is Hillary labeling people deplorable? Does that feel one sided to you?
I don’t understand how the conversation got that far off topic, let me rephrase. The original commenter was speaking about T supporters claiming the left is extremist, yet no one is commenting about how the right has extremists as well. I was pointing out that people do point out that the right has many extremists, due to cable news. When asked for examples I provided both a viewpoint among Democrats that was espoused by their nominee in 2016 as well as a government published study surrounding “extremist” Maga republicans. All that going towards the one sidedness of both sides
Neither
What would you consider the most important to you, this November, that is as adjacent to these options as possible?
Judges can be a lot more “fair” than a trial. They can actually do some objective analysis and determine if everything was followed. Especially when it’s a high court appeal panel - their job is to just look at cases and determine if everything was proper. As great as a jury trial is… there are flaws in how it gets executed sometimes… and that’s why we have appeals.
I want a president who is the enemy of the nat'l sec. state. Biden is compromised by the nat'l sec, state and Trump doesn't seem to be.
What does it mean to be compromised by the national security state? How do you know Trump is not compromised, given he was President too? When did you become against national security?
> When did you become against national security? I read *Rush to Judgement* in high school.
What new did you learn in that? I must admit I am unfamiliar entirely with it
What about Trump's administration led you to believe that?
Gen. Flynn.
Why?
Because he pled guilty to felonies? You like felons running the country?
In third world countries being a felon means nothing. Biden and his cult have transformed the USA into that, unfortunately.
Trump and his administration being full of felons is Biden's fault? Biden Derangement Syndrome?
Biden running a government of fascists is Bidens fault. And I'm not sure what you mean my biden derangement syndrome, my only guess is thats a reference to biden supposedly being so mentally incompetent he cant stand trial for his crimes as reported by the special counsel. Personally even if he is mentally deranged he still has sadistic tendencies and is an evil man (which is why his supporters love him as they love cruelty) I still think he deserves accountability but in this fascist state he will continue to face none.
Can you define fascist and give me a few examples of how Biden has behaved as one?
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I need actual evidence to believe things, yes. Innuendo isn't enough, right? Talking heads on TV, YouTube, TikTok, podcasts, or AM radio isn't enough, right? Why would you ever believe something without evidence?
What does it look like to be compromised by the deep state? To me it seems like enacting policies to help only the rich while hurting others. Let's look at some of Trump's policies: - tax cuts for the rich while raising taxes for the middle class - make deals with big oil and promise to ban EV's for personal gain - making cuts to pandemic prevention before Covid - making cuts to railroad regulation to help oligarchs and causing an increase in train derailments
> What does it look like to be compromised by the deep state? It looks like the judiciary is against you.
Who makes up the judiciary in your mind all judges or some? Who is the judiciary against right now in your opinion?
Why is it easier to believe that a man who is openly for policies that benefit only oligarchs, isn't working for the oligarchs? While also believing that the same man who has broken the law many times in his life is being persecuted for reasons besides breaking the law?
Getting Harris out of office
Why is getting Harris out the main priority?
Because i dont hink biden will live another 5 years and the thought of Kamala Harris running the country is terrifying
What is terrifying about her running the country? What are you afraid will happen?
Bad question: Getting Biden out could be way more important, but it depends on who gets in there instead. Hilary? I'd prefer Biden. At least he's senile. Likewise, Trump isn't the best, he's just not what the media says, and better than Biden.
Getting rid of Biden. There's likely to be 2, maybe even 4 seats opening on SCOTUS. It's imperative to cement a conservative majority for the next few decades.
What types of things would you like to see conservative majority SCOTUS accomplish over the next few decades?
Protect against government overreach.
Getting biden out given he has set this country on a path to destruction. Just think about it, democrats went from wanting to build a wall in the '90s to happily importing illegals including terrorists into the country.
What? Can you give me an example of democrats wanting a wall or happily importing terrorist or are you just echoing things you've heard?
We have to get rid of Biden. Personally I wanted Desantis as the nominee.
Getting Trump back in the White House. Imprisoning Democrats should be the priority moving forward.
Democrats in general or only specific ones?
Democratic politicians who have broken laws.
Why not politicians who break the law regardless of party?
I prefer just Democrats.
Why not Republicans who break the law? Should they exempt from consequences?
What crimes do you believe any Democrats have committed? Which Democrats specifically?
How much do you care about seeing them simply go to jail, or the process being constitutional? When you say democrats; do you mean elected official, people working in the party; or voters?
Are we talking Democratic politicians? Registered Democrats? Only those that vote Democrat in 2024? Anyone that’s ever voted for any Democrat?
Democratic politicians who have committed crimes. Obama killed an American with a drone strike - he should be prosecuted for that. God knows all the laws Hillary Clinton has broken. Biden's corruption - "10% for the big guy" - let's go. Let's get it all out.
Ok so if you convict democrats who broke the law what’s the end goal? Do you think normal democrats will be all dismayed? I don’t think many democrats would take it as personal as TS seem to be taking trumps guilty verdict.
Biden out hands down. He is not doing very well for us.
What are your measurements for a good presidency? And I'd ask what do you think Biden isn't doing that he should be doing?
What’s most important is getting these career politicians out of DC. It’ll never happen unfortunately, but we need term limits to clear out the corruption.
Probably getting rid of Biden , having said that if Nikki Haley was our nominee there is no way in hell I would vote for her war mongering arse.
for me: neither. I want whoever advances the country in the right direction. Honestly they are both retarded at some fundamental level. But the USA was better when Trump was in. I honestly don't know why the left hates him so bad. He's actually pretty centrist compared to someone like Desantis etc. But given my choice right now: Trump did a better job with the economy. Inflation is CRUSHING Americans. High costs are hurting everyone. The open border is literally getting Americans killed. So getting trump back will help all of us. Not because it's trump, but because I think his policies are generally better for America than Biden. Biden is honestly acting like a fascist and has been for a couple years.
Trump in Biden is fairly OK