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I think that there is also the possibility that they are now one of the best places in the world to get this done these days. There is a whole industry for it. They have the expertise, they have the facilities and they have it all packaged up so that everything around it is taken care of.
I'm bald, but tbh I prefer not having to take care of my hair so there is no way I would go for a hair transplant, but if I was going to do it Turkey does look like the best option.
Oh, and my dentist is Turkish... maybe I should talk to him about getting veneers?
It’s not regulated in the same way so that massive, thriving industry is also full of people completely unqualified to perform medical procedures cashing in the trend.
Not really. Antibiotics are sold over the counter in turkey. So there’s a massive problem with antibiotic resistant bacteria there - if you get an infection from an antibiotic resistant bacteria you are in trouble
I visited Istanbul last year. It was full of people with bandages on their nose and face. At first I dint get why so many. Then I realised whilst you are there recovering from the surgery you might take advantage of the touristic sites.
And its for 5-10 years max. Friend of mine did it 5 years ago. His hair looks exactly the same as it was 6 years ago now. We have a Turkish CEO that looks like Andre Agassi. Guess why.
Literally just the financial savings. It’s not like the treatment or aftercare is going to be superior in turkey.
If something goes wrong after the transplant such as infection then doctors in the uk will obviously help but if something goes wrong with transplant such as the hair starts falling out or something of that nature then no you probably won’t get any help.
The aftercare is why a lot of folk go, because you can also get a cheap holiday there, in a place where no one you know will see your head while it’s in that early phase of looking disgusting
I’m a strong believer that we should have mandatory medical tourism insurance for people doing shit like this.
And if you don’t get said insurance, you should be billed by the NHS on return.
Agreed. Even if I had said insurance I wouldn’t want to chance it.
Seen loads of stories of blokes with scabby patchy hair from this type of thing. No thanks.
It's no different to a UK based procedure. There's nothing inherently risky about getting a transplant in Turkey. Just do some research and find a reputable surgeon with a history of good results.
I don't like the idea that a procedure in Turkey is a bad idea just because it's in Turkey... They have good surgeons, too.
Problem is people say "oh 10k in the UK? Nah turkey...
" oh 5k in Turkey? Nah I'll go with the guy for 2k"
Then they get a bad result and the NHS have to sort the infection.
Funny that.
The NHS actually won’t help with many complications of plastic surgery abroad. NHS dentist won’t touch you if you’ve got turkey teeth and I’ve seen many women who have had horrendous complications from plastic surgery and left deformed and the NHS can’t/wont do anything unless it’s something that may kill you.
How far does that extend? They’ve wilfully done something that might harm their health so now they’re billed by the NHS for treatment. Next is this for fat people too?
It's not stupid at all.
Going to Turkey for a half transplant comes with obvious inherent risks that the tax payer might need to contribute towards.
Having a BMI of 600 and continuing to increase comes with obvious risks that the tax payer *will* need to contribute towards.
I'm not even going to mention drug users, alcoholics, self harmers, combat sports participants, etc.
Well this is the problem. It would be a never ending culture war. There will always be those that disagree and call alcoholism and obesity a disease.
I was addicted to nicotine. I didn't have a disease, I was a drug addict because nicotine is a drug. I'm no longer an addict, but it was absolute hell quitting. I didn't realise that you can actually get free nicotine replacement therapy on the NHS.
Sports are good for you. Buying a fat person a gym memership is good for them and if they lose weight it could save the NHS money on diebetic drugs and expensive surgery.
This is the conundrum. Do you want people to be healthy or unhealthy as a punishment for bad life choices.
One thing i will say is exercise is hard. Fat people will definitely have other medical problems.
I have crippling osteoarthritis, but I run through the pain, because the health benefits outweigh the pain. I've learnt to block out the pain and once the run is over, my knees stop hurting and i get to be mobile for the rest of the day.
Maybe that’s a debate we should be having though - the extent of the NHS’ responsibility to people who won’t follow their advice. It’s an insanely complex debate and I’d personally be very reluctant to remove anyone’s right to treatment, but by most accounts the NHS is falling apart and something probably has to change.
Id charge smokers for their treatment if they're born after a certain year.
Nobody under 30 should be smoking nowadays. Including vaping. Its utterly moronic.
Obesity can be genetics. Mental health issues. A raft of reasons.
Smoking is just a. Dumb choice.
Propensity to smoking i.e your susceptibility to addiction can be genetic.
No genetics makes it so that “calories in calories out” doesn’t work. No genetics change the laws of thermodynamics - at best, in the general population, something like pcos can decrease your bmr but even then calories in calories out still apply.
Also if you’re gonna blame overeating on mental health how the hell couldn’t you also blame smoking on that too?
There's a lot of horror stories but you've also got to mind you only hear about the horror stories. These places in Turkey are like revolving doors, there's flights full of balding men getting procedures on a daily basis. That being said I still wouldn't take the risk because if my lucks anything to go by i'd be a goner.
I have no real knowledge around turkish hair implants, however my Partner is Turkish, and she is adamant that Turkish Medical care is better than it is here in every area.
I think she's being slightly nationilistic, but I think you probably do get a lot better care for the same amount of money over there. I think you also need to remember though, that if you go for the Cheapest option, then there will be a reason why it's the cheapest.
Personally, I wouldn't have an issue going to Turkey for a hair transplant, but I would try and go for the best/affordable one I could. Thousands are going every month and you only ever hear about a few nightmare results.
TLDR - It's your head, it's important, so spend as much as you can afford.
My partner is Turkish as well, and she’d absolutely agree with yours. And honestly so would I. Healthcare in the UK for anything besides emergency care is ok, but not great.
The high end private healthcare in Turkey, and in many places around the world, is well beyond anything the NHS can offer. And based on my experiences private healthcare in the UK, can’t match it either, especially once you factor in the cost.
The problems with health tourism come down to people going for dodgy providers due to them being the cheapest option they can find, without really checking on what they’re getting in to, the end result being they often end up at places that many locals wouldn’t go near.
I’ve used dentists in Turkey, had general medical checkups, and had my laser eye surgery there as well. I went to Turkey’s top eye hospital, had the surgery done by the senior surgeon who brought the technique in question to the country, literally the most expensive option available. And it was still less than half the price of an average provider in the UK.
> The problems with health tourism come down to people going for dodgy providers due to them being the cheapest option they can find, without really checking on what they’re getting in to, the end result being they often end up at places that many locals wouldn’t go near.
This is exactly the issue at hand, with everyone here scaremongering based upon horror stories of people who were idiots and 1: went to the cheapest place possible (shock horror, that's not a good idea) and 2: didn't have the sense to walk out of a dodgy clinic.
I had the same people parroting "it'll be an infection and terrible work" when I mentioned going to Poland for dental work, when I went to an expensive clinic (for Poland) with a dentist who was in a hazmat suit for my oral surgery, in a surgical room better equipped than any of the UK dentists I've been to! In comparison the UK dentists were the dodgy clinics to that Polish one!
I’m Spanish and always go back to Spain for my dental care too. Not just better prices but better care by a mile.. sadly. I really don’t enjoy flying just for that.
A German friend of mine has been here 10 years and does the same..
You're probably right in some areas, especially elective surgeries, like a non-emergency hip replacement, cataracts or hair transplant.
However, I certainly wouldn't recommend Turkish emergency care.
Last year, my Mum fractured her ankle Tukey in a hot air balloon crash. The surgery was a botch, the UK surgeons reviewed her x-ray and the fixation screws were going places they shouldn't (nerves). Her post surgery care in the hospital sucked.
After the crash, her lower leg was snapped and bent 90 degrees, the foot was rotated 180 degrees. The paramedics put it back with no anaesthetic, not even N2O (gas and air)
My Mum is a nurse, Dad is a doctor and brother is an air ambulance paramedic. They were all less than impressed.
If you went to a public hospital that’s not a surprise, especially if outside of Istanbul/Ankara. Even for emergency care, if there is any choice of doing so, my wife would go straight to a private hospital.
In the other hand, my late father in law had cancer care beyond what I’ve seen in the UK. at government hospitals, although he did have superb private cover as well with did cover some elements.
All that said, you’re not wrong. Some public, and private, hospitals are less than stellar. Which is exactly where the problem lies. If you’re a tourist, you don’t have the knowledge and understanding of the system that locals do and as such you’re vulnerable in these circumstances. One of many reasons why good travel insurance matters.
The same things apply in the UK and elsewhere as well. The only difference being that we brits are collectively rather naive when it comes to healthcare as it’s not something many have ever had to consider consciously. We just go to whatever NHS service is local and accept what we’re given/told.
The first time my wife explained she’d been and had an MRI at what was essentially her GPs, just to check if something was wrong rather than it just being a small niggle, and was only there for an hour from walking in without an pre booked appointment, blew my tiny mind.
The class inequality in Turkey is massive. To put it into perspective the top 1% of Turks account to 40% of the countries wealth whilst in the UK the top 1% account to 20%. If you are in need of Turkish healthcare the best bet is to go to either Istanbul or Ankara, you can also go to Izmir which is the third biggest city in terms of pop and gdp but it’s much less commonly preferred than the other 2. Im going to go out on a limb and guess your mother was in Cappadocia ? Which is in the “poorer” parts of Turkey were you most likely will not be receiving the top of the line care you would get in a private respected hospital in Istanbul. My Grandmother died from complications in a gallbladder surgery 20 odd years ago in one of those rural esque hospitals, the country has come a long way since then.
Dünyagöz Hospital in Istanbul is where my wife and I had ours. I would most certainly recommend it. Cost me £1600 back in 2020, which included 2 nights stay in the hospital, although I didn’t use that as I was staying with family in Istanbul. The same “smile” LASIK was more than that per eye when I checked the better/equivalent places in the UK.
If someone is going to be firing lasers at your eyeballs, don’t go for anything but the best options.
Definitely not something to do without a good think! It is a big deal, and regardless of the impression some providers give, just like any medical procedure it’s not without risk (although the risk are very low these days).
I got mine done as a 40th birthday present to myself after spending 20 years umming and ahhing about it. For what’s it worth, it’s one of the best things I’ve ever done and certainly wish I’d done it sooner.
Yep I know for a fact that it'd improve my wife's life massively, her eyesight is terrible & I know she'd just love to see our daughter properly from more than 3ft away!
I've always heard it said that the benefit of health tourism is that it costs relatively little to access the highest level of medical care available in certain countries. People who go abroad to pay the absolute minimum are missing the point and that's why they end up with botched jobs.
I’ve had my hair done in Istanbul and I can agree that the medical side and the whole treatment in general was way better than the UK. I’ve had multiple operations in the UK and had my fair share of hospital stays and everything in the hair clinic in Istanbul was better. The food they provided to me was unbelievably nice.
No need to go for the most expensive, I had quotes from 1k-5k and spent over a month researching all the clinics I liked in depth, ended up going for one of the cheaper ones (1.5k) as they had the best social media presence posting photos and great reviews.
2 years on I’m so glad I done it, I’d have paid double even triple after knowing how happy it’s made me.
I’m probably going to get a hair transplant in the next 5-10 years from looking at pictures of my dads hair progression.
Main thing is I’m just not gonna cheap whether I go for U.K. or abroad
People love to slam turkey as being dodgy to get procedures done but honestly they are much better than the UK, you just need to research and not pick any one. I only know 1 person who had it done in the UK and they had to go back to London as they had issues with it and it needed sorting.
My procedure would have costed in the region of 8-15k in the UK, had it for a fraction of the cost in Turkey.
I am a Turkish, live in London. And I can say that absolutely medical care and doctors are better in turkey. And I am not being nationalistic. I can say hundreds of bad things about my country. Living in the UK is much better than in Turkey but I must admit medical care in Turkey is superior.
Hi, could I ask you a question about the Turkish healthcare system ? I’m a Turk aswell but was brought up here and have a chronic condition that is very expensive to treat, I was wondering how much the government pays for ones prescribed drugs? I heard 80% from some people but I am wondering if that’s the same for specialty drugs which costs at least 10k and can easily go up to around 20k tl a month to treat
It’s basically service based arbitrage
Your £‘s are a stronger currency adjusted for local purchasing power in Turkey than here, so you can buy more there than you can here
Hello! I went there for a hair transplant. In Istanbul. I have no shame about it, and it was the best thing I've done in years. It only cost £1,600 (covering everything but the flights, which were like £100). I got the recommendation from a friend's father, who tried one in in the UK - and they totally fucked it up. So he went to Turkey. It was like a conveyor belt - balding men went in, we came out in bandages. But after 2 months, I looked fucking great. Honestly, I can't recommend it enough, and can send pics (and the name of the place) if you want.
It’s mostly just the costs being much lower TBH. I’m not super familiar with that particular procedure, but I have had plastic surgery and was initially considering having it done in either Turkey, Ukraine (before the war), or Latvia. Ultimately I decided to just pay more and have it done in the UK for the peace of mind.
What I would recommend is researching the procedure beforehand - including what exactly is done, if there are different ways of doing it, etc. Have a look reddit as well for posts from people who’ve had it done — basically educate yourself as much as possible so you’d know what to expect. It also wouldn’t hurt to get multiple quotes, which is what I did :)
I am just back from a hair transplant in Turkey. It’s been around 11 days. Apart from the financial savings, I would say they take better care. They treat you really nicely and answer every question in detail so you understand everything. About the aftercare, they assigned a specific person who will be taking care of you after the operation. He answers everything and any doubts I have after the operation. I send them photos of the updates, and they send back videos on what to do next, what to take care of, and how to take care. They also took a guarantee of the transplant, and the aftercare extends to 1 year.
> Also, it means you're signing a consent form in a language you don't speak and therefore have no idea what you're consenting to. You can't sue them if any complications arise - it's a legal minefield.
Yes, the language barrier is a big factor that I didn’t include in my response. I never got a proper quote from Turkey when I was looking around, but I did get one from Ukraine and to their credit the documents were all in English but I was still worried about the idea of there being a language barrier between me and the doctors and nurses who were caring for me.
My husband is Ukrainian so I figured worst case scenario he can just interpret for me, but ultimately I felt much more comfortable just having it done here. The doctor who did my procedure even sent a letter to my GP informing them of it so that it would be on my file.
Your first point was fine but then you went completely overboard and lost credibility. Nobody is getting their kidneys stolen during surgery. That’s a life sentence in Turkey.
I can't speak on the domestic vs elsewhere side of it, but I looked into it when i first realised I'd hit "that" point and shaved my head a few years ago aged 26. Given that there's no real guarantee for success I ended up decided that for me, its money that could be better spent elsewhere
My friend had a transplant here in the UK. It failed first time round,he did it again to cover his recording hairline, it took the second time. Unluckily though he is losing the hair on top of his head so now he has a front to back comb over
Lots of people saying it's financial but this isn't correct - the cost isn't much less than in the UK.
The real reason is there are surprisingly few doctors who do it in the UK, even less who are decent.
I assume it comes from the fact most private doctors in the UK also have NHS work. The guy who does nose jobs or jaw implants also works for the NHS repairing people's faces after a car crash or cancer surgery.
There isn't really a call for hair transplant doctors in the UK, and unlike say Botox injections or lip fillers, you do need to be an actual qualified doctor.
It's therefore extremely rare for someone to go through all the time training to be a doctor, and simply bin everything off to just do private work doing hair transplants. Financially it might work, but morally few doctors would.
They have a very good quality of service due to the amount of competition in the market. You see a lot of very good private health care providers in places like Mexico who target the US market because it's cheeper. It's a win win really, it brings money into the economy and poor people from wealthy countries can afford it.
Turkey doesn't have all the red tape that European countries have, because of that procedures are cheaper. Personally I'd rather get one in the uk on finance then bump them it's not like there gonna send bailiffs round and take your hair back 🤣
I’ve heard it’s better to go to Prague or Poland for overseas treatment, if purely for financial savings. They are still in the EU so are more stringent with aftercare etc.
They do so many of them that they will be the best implants you could reasonably get. It's the same as going to Thailand for a sex change op. They are renowned for that specific thing. They have some of the best hospitals in the world.
Its a hair transplant, mate. You could learn to do it in an afternoon.
Weird question btw as the systems are completely different. Usa has very poor record on complex procedures. It has a system of pay for hope when a decent and more ethical doctor would be truthful and tell you the truth. Uk private is exceptional but the nhs is engrained into society that people still choose it even if extremely wealthy. Poland/ romania/ korea, fucking chilie are all higher regarded.
Things are cheaper because costs are cheaper and big industry don’t have a monopoly
You said "turkish medical procedures are by far more experienced than uk". So I asked if that's the case why are rich people from the UK not flying out to Turkey to get anything done medically? Can you answer that question instead of rambling on about hair transplants and other nonsense?
Do you know any rich people personally. Because your guess is wrong. But those that do are just scared to go out their comfort zone. Nobody from turkey is flying to uk/usa for a medical procedure unless its a bullshit experiment treatment that just cons you out to pf money. Think what you are saying ffs
Cool youve met me who happens to be a medical professional in the uk.
You do know athletes and probably rich people have high insurance premiums that would require procedures be conducted in a country that aligns with their legal framework. Tax and company profit is why its dearer in usa or uk but since already paid insurance it doesnt matter for the wealthy.
Btw the majority of medical procedures for athletes are done in Finland.
I would also urge you to look up the difference between minor cosmetic procedure and actual surgery. A hair transplant is in the same league as teeth whitening
>Nobody from turkey is flying to uk/usa for a medical procedure
This is also false. A lot of the world's leading oncologists and cancer centers are based in London and I can guarantee you that rich Turks with the disease are flying out to the UK for a second opinion and/or treatment.
Please, dummy. I know a lot of Turkish expats who work in London in executive roles and generally live a great life (that is not accessible to most Brits anyway) yet they come to Turkey for medical purposes. Many techniques and lasers used in surgeries are also pretty advanced here.
I don’t know why a (presumably) American dares to shit on Turkish Health Care while it’s better than most European countries which was also evident back in Covid.
Affordable healthcare is good but I’d rather pay more for much better quality healthcare and more experienced doctors that you get in America. You can’t put a price on good health.
Read an article on this. Basically any surgery you get better with experience, and quality doesn't change much even if you went to a place with more safety regulations. Hair transplant surgeons in Turkey have more patients to practice with its popularity, they get better at it.
The issue is how well any complications that may arise are dealt with by the Turkish provider. Whether it’s hair transplantation or my other form of surgery, however skilled the surgeon/specialist is…. complications arise, such as post operative infection. The NHS chief medical officer has recently reminded NHS hospitals and GPs that the NHS should not be providing any pre- or post-operative care for people who have sought private surgery abroad and have suffered post operative issues on their return home.
Such patients must pay for treatment in the private sector or return to the hospital or clinic abroad.
As long as you have the right level of travel insurance policy you get to fly back in a private jet and be transported in a private ambulance to an NHS hospital to have your sepsis treated back in the UK.
If you find a good surgeon, the surgical outcomes are better. I’m looking into a breast reduction and UK plastic surgeons generally have shit results. I’ve looked at surgeons in Turkey, Belgium, Sweden, Prague, Germany and UK plastic surgeons are not as talented. No idea why they charge so much, they’re crap!
Financials aside, they usually pick you up in a nixe car and put you up in a nice hotel.
My cousin went to have his done (ultimately decided against it) and said the experience was lovely
personally I think shopping around internationally for the cheapest way to get a medical procedure done seems bonkers. There are so many horror stories.
Would have thought it would have been more beneficial to have hair implants in a bald eagle personally. They probably have more of a complex about that type of thing
I'm some rando on the internet but I'd recommend not going to Turkey to get any medical procedures. My best friend is a dentist and has had to refuse patients treatment due to having things like implants overseas. If there are any problems UK based dentists will not touch the work done and more likely than not you'll have to go back to to get it fixed.
Sanitation is also questionable as my mate has told me he seen a few people come back with STDs, in particular HIV after medical procedures. They saved a few grand and traded it for life long medical complications
Aye mate, you’re right. I should have put absolute faith in a Redditors mate putting it out there that Turkey is infecting British tourists with STD’s during hair transplants.
Because that sounds like the most intelligent thing I’ve ever heard.
(more seriously, if this _has_ happened, then I’d be fascinated to read more about it)
Noone has said you should.
Do you demand every statement your mates say be provided with peer reviewed research too so that you're able to share it on the internet? Or more likely do you just take it for what it is and compare it to other information if you're ever in a situation to need it?
I get what you mean, but it's a bit much of an ask for someone just sharing what they've been told so that others can know it's worth reading up on before acting either way.
Not exactly true... you take a drug (finasteride) to stop the remaining natural hair around it from falling out. The transplanted hair should remain regardless, as it's from a region of the scalp where hairs are resistant to the hormone that causes the hairs to miniturise.
What I find interesting is how that’s not true at all. It’s your own hair, it’s not donor hair, you don’t have to take anything to stop it from falling out.
No you don’t. Fina is optional if you want to stop your other hair from falling out. But it has nothing to do with the hair transplant itself. You’re talking about a subject that you have zero understanding of.
Shave it dude, people that go to these lengths are letting it dominate their mind. Own it, shave it and enjoy the freedom. Check out r/bald there are a lot of guys going through what you are. There's no guarantee a transplant will work and the scarring can be horrific
Women go for confidence, not someone so self obsessed and with such low self esteem that they plumb the depths of one of those ridiculous brushes on their head.
Its cheap and thats it. Personally i think that people that go for cheap cosmetic operations in a developing country where standards are far less rigorously enforced than they are in the UK is an absolute lunatic, but each to their own
Women flocking all over you at Istanbul airport on the way home, as in did it hurt? Where did you go? How much was it etc etc? Even I was tempted to stay a bit longer and go get a treatment, these guys were living their best lives that day.
Don't do it,..... there are some terrible cases on youtube where people have gone to Turkey and ended up in hospital because of things that have been done wrong.
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I don’t think there’s much more to it than the financial side tbh
Potential photo in a tabloid?
And don’t forget end up on r/compoface
Absolutely potential fodder for tabloids.
I think that there is also the possibility that they are now one of the best places in the world to get this done these days. There is a whole industry for it. They have the expertise, they have the facilities and they have it all packaged up so that everything around it is taken care of. I'm bald, but tbh I prefer not having to take care of my hair so there is no way I would go for a hair transplant, but if I was going to do it Turkey does look like the best option. Oh, and my dentist is Turkish... maybe I should talk to him about getting veneers?
It’s not regulated in the same way so that massive, thriving industry is also full of people completely unqualified to perform medical procedures cashing in the trend.
Really? Like I don't know enough about this to say you are wrong, but doesn't this count as surgery and doesn't Turkey have medical regulations?
Dentistry and cosmetic surgery (hair transplants) are not regulated as strictly as they are here, no. That’s why it’s so cheap.
They’re? And the quality of doctors is better in Turkey than in the UK.
Not really. Antibiotics are sold over the counter in turkey. So there’s a massive problem with antibiotic resistant bacteria there - if you get an infection from an antibiotic resistant bacteria you are in trouble
In trouble as in it's not that the NHS won't treat you it's that in a couple of cases now, they can't treat you.
No, antibiotics are sold with a prescription in Turkey.
I beg you do not get veneers done in Turkey
My dentist is Turkish, but he lives and works here in the UK.
I visited Istanbul last year. It was full of people with bandages on their nose and face. At first I dint get why so many. Then I realised whilst you are there recovering from the surgery you might take advantage of the touristic sites.
And its for 5-10 years max. Friend of mine did it 5 years ago. His hair looks exactly the same as it was 6 years ago now. We have a Turkish CEO that looks like Andre Agassi. Guess why.
1992 Agassi or 2002 Agassi?
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Literally just the financial savings. It’s not like the treatment or aftercare is going to be superior in turkey. If something goes wrong after the transplant such as infection then doctors in the uk will obviously help but if something goes wrong with transplant such as the hair starts falling out or something of that nature then no you probably won’t get any help.
The aftercare is why a lot of folk go, because you can also get a cheap holiday there, in a place where no one you know will see your head while it’s in that early phase of looking disgusting
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Less risk of Jimmy Carr’s shit fake laugh or serial killer gaze in Turkey, so that’s another bonus
Look up the horror stories first and choose wisely. I’m happy going bald rather than take the risk.
I’m a strong believer that we should have mandatory medical tourism insurance for people doing shit like this. And if you don’t get said insurance, you should be billed by the NHS on return.
Agreed. Even if I had said insurance I wouldn’t want to chance it. Seen loads of stories of blokes with scabby patchy hair from this type of thing. No thanks.
It's no different to a UK based procedure. There's nothing inherently risky about getting a transplant in Turkey. Just do some research and find a reputable surgeon with a history of good results. I don't like the idea that a procedure in Turkey is a bad idea just because it's in Turkey... They have good surgeons, too.
Problem is people say "oh 10k in the UK? Nah turkey... " oh 5k in Turkey? Nah I'll go with the guy for 2k" Then they get a bad result and the NHS have to sort the infection. Funny that.
The NHS actually won’t help with many complications of plastic surgery abroad. NHS dentist won’t touch you if you’ve got turkey teeth and I’ve seen many women who have had horrendous complications from plastic surgery and left deformed and the NHS can’t/wont do anything unless it’s something that may kill you.
That’s what I mean, treat but bill. As the medical tourist folk say, it’s really safe, so it obviously won’t cost much if they’re telling the truth.
How far does that extend? They’ve wilfully done something that might harm their health so now they’re billed by the NHS for treatment. Next is this for fat people too?
Stupid comment, really. Unless they went to Turkey to get fat
It's not stupid at all. Going to Turkey for a half transplant comes with obvious inherent risks that the tax payer might need to contribute towards. Having a BMI of 600 and continuing to increase comes with obvious risks that the tax payer *will* need to contribute towards. I'm not even going to mention drug users, alcoholics, self harmers, combat sports participants, etc.
Well this is the problem. It would be a never ending culture war. There will always be those that disagree and call alcoholism and obesity a disease. I was addicted to nicotine. I didn't have a disease, I was a drug addict because nicotine is a drug. I'm no longer an addict, but it was absolute hell quitting. I didn't realise that you can actually get free nicotine replacement therapy on the NHS. Sports are good for you. Buying a fat person a gym memership is good for them and if they lose weight it could save the NHS money on diebetic drugs and expensive surgery. This is the conundrum. Do you want people to be healthy or unhealthy as a punishment for bad life choices. One thing i will say is exercise is hard. Fat people will definitely have other medical problems. I have crippling osteoarthritis, but I run through the pain, because the health benefits outweigh the pain. I've learnt to block out the pain and once the run is over, my knees stop hurting and i get to be mobile for the rest of the day.
Maybe that’s a debate we should be having though - the extent of the NHS’ responsibility to people who won’t follow their advice. It’s an insanely complex debate and I’d personally be very reluctant to remove anyone’s right to treatment, but by most accounts the NHS is falling apart and something probably has to change.
Id charge smokers for their treatment if they're born after a certain year. Nobody under 30 should be smoking nowadays. Including vaping. Its utterly moronic. Obesity can be genetics. Mental health issues. A raft of reasons. Smoking is just a. Dumb choice.
Propensity to smoking i.e your susceptibility to addiction can be genetic. No genetics makes it so that “calories in calories out” doesn’t work. No genetics change the laws of thermodynamics - at best, in the general population, something like pcos can decrease your bmr but even then calories in calories out still apply. Also if you’re gonna blame overeating on mental health how the hell couldn’t you also blame smoking on that too?
Well it's harder to not eat when you need it to survive... vs smoking which you just have to be a moron to even have started in the last 20 years.
People eating too much and living a sedatory life cost the NHS way more than anything like this ever would.
Sadly this won’t never happen mate. Medical tourism is a big industry lmao you should see how many Americans drive to Mexico for dental care
Or you could just do your research and find a decent clinic.
Crack on then.
I did and was pleased with the results. Enjoy going bald due to your lack of organisational skills.
I’m glad it worked out ok for you. I was just warning against some proper horror stories I’d seen. Chill man.
There's a lot of horror stories but you've also got to mind you only hear about the horror stories. These places in Turkey are like revolving doors, there's flights full of balding men getting procedures on a daily basis. That being said I still wouldn't take the risk because if my lucks anything to go by i'd be a goner.
I have no real knowledge around turkish hair implants, however my Partner is Turkish, and she is adamant that Turkish Medical care is better than it is here in every area. I think she's being slightly nationilistic, but I think you probably do get a lot better care for the same amount of money over there. I think you also need to remember though, that if you go for the Cheapest option, then there will be a reason why it's the cheapest. Personally, I wouldn't have an issue going to Turkey for a hair transplant, but I would try and go for the best/affordable one I could. Thousands are going every month and you only ever hear about a few nightmare results. TLDR - It's your head, it's important, so spend as much as you can afford.
My partner is Turkish as well, and she’d absolutely agree with yours. And honestly so would I. Healthcare in the UK for anything besides emergency care is ok, but not great. The high end private healthcare in Turkey, and in many places around the world, is well beyond anything the NHS can offer. And based on my experiences private healthcare in the UK, can’t match it either, especially once you factor in the cost. The problems with health tourism come down to people going for dodgy providers due to them being the cheapest option they can find, without really checking on what they’re getting in to, the end result being they often end up at places that many locals wouldn’t go near. I’ve used dentists in Turkey, had general medical checkups, and had my laser eye surgery there as well. I went to Turkey’s top eye hospital, had the surgery done by the senior surgeon who brought the technique in question to the country, literally the most expensive option available. And it was still less than half the price of an average provider in the UK.
> The problems with health tourism come down to people going for dodgy providers due to them being the cheapest option they can find, without really checking on what they’re getting in to, the end result being they often end up at places that many locals wouldn’t go near. This is exactly the issue at hand, with everyone here scaremongering based upon horror stories of people who were idiots and 1: went to the cheapest place possible (shock horror, that's not a good idea) and 2: didn't have the sense to walk out of a dodgy clinic. I had the same people parroting "it'll be an infection and terrible work" when I mentioned going to Poland for dental work, when I went to an expensive clinic (for Poland) with a dentist who was in a hazmat suit for my oral surgery, in a surgical room better equipped than any of the UK dentists I've been to! In comparison the UK dentists were the dodgy clinics to that Polish one!
I have a friend who is Polish and she always goes home for her dental care as basically she said ours doesn't compare at all.
Yeah, my partner has had Polish coworkers who would do the exact same, it's what persuaded me to go, and I wasn't disappointed!
I’m Spanish and always go back to Spain for my dental care too. Not just better prices but better care by a mile.. sadly. I really don’t enjoy flying just for that. A German friend of mine has been here 10 years and does the same..
To be fair I lived in Spain for a few years back in 2000's and I would say the hospitals are better also
You're probably right in some areas, especially elective surgeries, like a non-emergency hip replacement, cataracts or hair transplant. However, I certainly wouldn't recommend Turkish emergency care. Last year, my Mum fractured her ankle Tukey in a hot air balloon crash. The surgery was a botch, the UK surgeons reviewed her x-ray and the fixation screws were going places they shouldn't (nerves). Her post surgery care in the hospital sucked. After the crash, her lower leg was snapped and bent 90 degrees, the foot was rotated 180 degrees. The paramedics put it back with no anaesthetic, not even N2O (gas and air) My Mum is a nurse, Dad is a doctor and brother is an air ambulance paramedic. They were all less than impressed.
If you went to a public hospital that’s not a surprise, especially if outside of Istanbul/Ankara. Even for emergency care, if there is any choice of doing so, my wife would go straight to a private hospital. In the other hand, my late father in law had cancer care beyond what I’ve seen in the UK. at government hospitals, although he did have superb private cover as well with did cover some elements. All that said, you’re not wrong. Some public, and private, hospitals are less than stellar. Which is exactly where the problem lies. If you’re a tourist, you don’t have the knowledge and understanding of the system that locals do and as such you’re vulnerable in these circumstances. One of many reasons why good travel insurance matters. The same things apply in the UK and elsewhere as well. The only difference being that we brits are collectively rather naive when it comes to healthcare as it’s not something many have ever had to consider consciously. We just go to whatever NHS service is local and accept what we’re given/told. The first time my wife explained she’d been and had an MRI at what was essentially her GPs, just to check if something was wrong rather than it just being a small niggle, and was only there for an hour from walking in without an pre booked appointment, blew my tiny mind.
The class inequality in Turkey is massive. To put it into perspective the top 1% of Turks account to 40% of the countries wealth whilst in the UK the top 1% account to 20%. If you are in need of Turkish healthcare the best bet is to go to either Istanbul or Ankara, you can also go to Izmir which is the third biggest city in terms of pop and gdp but it’s much less commonly preferred than the other 2. Im going to go out on a limb and guess your mother was in Cappadocia ? Which is in the “poorer” parts of Turkey were you most likely will not be receiving the top of the line care you would get in a private respected hospital in Istanbul. My Grandmother died from complications in a gallbladder surgery 20 odd years ago in one of those rural esque hospitals, the country has come a long way since then.
I’m Turkish and I’m an NHS doctor and I agree. We fly back home for all non-emergency health problems.
Does not say much for your medical expertise..
My Wife is thinking about getting her eyes fixed. Maybe we'll consider Turkey & a holiday to boot!
Do research your provider thoroughly though. Even some people with good CVs employed in well known hospitals can be somewhat scammy.
Will do, cheers!
Dünyagöz Hospital in Istanbul is where my wife and I had ours. I would most certainly recommend it. Cost me £1600 back in 2020, which included 2 nights stay in the hospital, although I didn’t use that as I was staying with family in Istanbul. The same “smile” LASIK was more than that per eye when I checked the better/equivalent places in the UK. If someone is going to be firing lasers at your eyeballs, don’t go for anything but the best options.
Of course, she's umming and ahhing about doing it in the UK as she likes being able to use her terrible eyes. Will have a good think!
Definitely not something to do without a good think! It is a big deal, and regardless of the impression some providers give, just like any medical procedure it’s not without risk (although the risk are very low these days). I got mine done as a 40th birthday present to myself after spending 20 years umming and ahhing about it. For what’s it worth, it’s one of the best things I’ve ever done and certainly wish I’d done it sooner.
Yep I know for a fact that it'd improve my wife's life massively, her eyesight is terrible & I know she'd just love to see our daughter properly from more than 3ft away!
I've always heard it said that the benefit of health tourism is that it costs relatively little to access the highest level of medical care available in certain countries. People who go abroad to pay the absolute minimum are missing the point and that's why they end up with botched jobs.
I’ve had my hair done in Istanbul and I can agree that the medical side and the whole treatment in general was way better than the UK. I’ve had multiple operations in the UK and had my fair share of hospital stays and everything in the hair clinic in Istanbul was better. The food they provided to me was unbelievably nice. No need to go for the most expensive, I had quotes from 1k-5k and spent over a month researching all the clinics I liked in depth, ended up going for one of the cheaper ones (1.5k) as they had the best social media presence posting photos and great reviews. 2 years on I’m so glad I done it, I’d have paid double even triple after knowing how happy it’s made me.
I’m probably going to get a hair transplant in the next 5-10 years from looking at pictures of my dads hair progression. Main thing is I’m just not gonna cheap whether I go for U.K. or abroad
People love to slam turkey as being dodgy to get procedures done but honestly they are much better than the UK, you just need to research and not pick any one. I only know 1 person who had it done in the UK and they had to go back to London as they had issues with it and it needed sorting. My procedure would have costed in the region of 8-15k in the UK, had it for a fraction of the cost in Turkey.
I am a Turkish, live in London. And I can say that absolutely medical care and doctors are better in turkey. And I am not being nationalistic. I can say hundreds of bad things about my country. Living in the UK is much better than in Turkey but I must admit medical care in Turkey is superior.
Hi, could I ask you a question about the Turkish healthcare system ? I’m a Turk aswell but was brought up here and have a chronic condition that is very expensive to treat, I was wondering how much the government pays for ones prescribed drugs? I heard 80% from some people but I am wondering if that’s the same for specialty drugs which costs at least 10k and can easily go up to around 20k tl a month to treat
You get to visit Turkey. That’s a benefit.
Get featured in r/compoface when it all goes wrong?
Can get a kebab
Fucking sold
It’s basically service based arbitrage Your £‘s are a stronger currency adjusted for local purchasing power in Turkey than here, so you can buy more there than you can here
I was on an Istanbul - Manchester flight last Sunday. There were so many guys on the plane who had just done the procedure, so many
Haha did you fly with Deano Hairlines?
Everyone will know you've been to Turkey without having to tell them
Hello! I went there for a hair transplant. In Istanbul. I have no shame about it, and it was the best thing I've done in years. It only cost £1,600 (covering everything but the flights, which were like £100). I got the recommendation from a friend's father, who tried one in in the UK - and they totally fucked it up. So he went to Turkey. It was like a conveyor belt - balding men went in, we came out in bandages. But after 2 months, I looked fucking great. Honestly, I can't recommend it enough, and can send pics (and the name of the place) if you want.
Who did you use?
These guys - [Clinic centre](https://cliniccenter.co.uk/)
>What are the benefits of getting hair implants in turkey? None. It's too much of a hassle to remove the feathers.
It’s mostly just the costs being much lower TBH. I’m not super familiar with that particular procedure, but I have had plastic surgery and was initially considering having it done in either Turkey, Ukraine (before the war), or Latvia. Ultimately I decided to just pay more and have it done in the UK for the peace of mind. What I would recommend is researching the procedure beforehand - including what exactly is done, if there are different ways of doing it, etc. Have a look reddit as well for posts from people who’ve had it done — basically educate yourself as much as possible so you’d know what to expect. It also wouldn’t hurt to get multiple quotes, which is what I did :)
I’m just gonna continue to be bald. Not worth the risk. My mates son went and it looks shit
I am just back from a hair transplant in Turkey. It’s been around 11 days. Apart from the financial savings, I would say they take better care. They treat you really nicely and answer every question in detail so you understand everything. About the aftercare, they assigned a specific person who will be taking care of you after the operation. He answers everything and any doubts I have after the operation. I send them photos of the updates, and they send back videos on what to do next, what to take care of, and how to take care. They also took a guarantee of the transplant, and the aftercare extends to 1 year.
Could you send me that please?
https://sule-hairtransplant.com
I can't see benefits. People go to these places to get things done cheaply and then when it goes wrong they expect the NHS to sort it out.
Can you go in to details? Edit. Downvoted because they can’t?
Infections by antibiotic resistant bacteria
Friend had one done there. Looks shit.
I've seen one and the transplanted hair looks different to the actual head hair, more like pubic hair lol. are they permanent ?
That's exactly what his looks like - it's very obvious
Nothing is permanent except death and taxes
I think it depends on the person, sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit. I might get a puib transplant as a trial hahaha
way she goes
Getting hair presumably
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> Also, it means you're signing a consent form in a language you don't speak and therefore have no idea what you're consenting to. You can't sue them if any complications arise - it's a legal minefield. Yes, the language barrier is a big factor that I didn’t include in my response. I never got a proper quote from Turkey when I was looking around, but I did get one from Ukraine and to their credit the documents were all in English but I was still worried about the idea of there being a language barrier between me and the doctors and nurses who were caring for me. My husband is Ukrainian so I figured worst case scenario he can just interpret for me, but ultimately I felt much more comfortable just having it done here. The doctor who did my procedure even sent a letter to my GP informing them of it so that it would be on my file.
It was for this reason I decided to pay 10k for my op here and not 2/3 k in turkey
Your first point was fine but then you went completely overboard and lost credibility. Nobody is getting their kidneys stolen during surgery. That’s a life sentence in Turkey.
At least if it’s a success you won’t be short of Turkish barbers in the UK to cut it
Omg there are lots of disinformation and misinformation about Turkey and health care. We can thank to the sun, daily mirror, daily record.
I can't speak on the domestic vs elsewhere side of it, but I looked into it when i first realised I'd hit "that" point and shaved my head a few years ago aged 26. Given that there's no real guarantee for success I ended up decided that for me, its money that could be better spent elsewhere
My friend had a transplant here in the UK. It failed first time round,he did it again to cover his recording hairline, it took the second time. Unluckily though he is losing the hair on top of his head so now he has a front to back comb over
Buy a set of clippers and embrace baldness. Nobody gives a fuck.
Lots of people saying it's financial but this isn't correct - the cost isn't much less than in the UK. The real reason is there are surprisingly few doctors who do it in the UK, even less who are decent. I assume it comes from the fact most private doctors in the UK also have NHS work. The guy who does nose jobs or jaw implants also works for the NHS repairing people's faces after a car crash or cancer surgery. There isn't really a call for hair transplant doctors in the UK, and unlike say Botox injections or lip fillers, you do need to be an actual qualified doctor. It's therefore extremely rare for someone to go through all the time training to be a doctor, and simply bin everything off to just do private work doing hair transplants. Financially it might work, but morally few doctors would.
They have a very good quality of service due to the amount of competition in the market. You see a lot of very good private health care providers in places like Mexico who target the US market because it's cheeper. It's a win win really, it brings money into the economy and poor people from wealthy countries can afford it.
Turkey doesn't have all the red tape that European countries have, because of that procedures are cheaper. Personally I'd rather get one in the uk on finance then bump them it's not like there gonna send bailiffs round and take your hair back 🤣
Lol doesn't work like that tho. Some heavy come round to trim ya sack.
Why would you put hair implants in turkey?
For man or woman? Because for man, having hairs on the top of the head is no real benefit.
You get hair.
There are Turkish doctors in London that work to the highest standard with prices similar to Turkey
I’ve heard it’s better to go to Prague or Poland for overseas treatment, if purely for financial savings. They are still in the EU so are more stringent with aftercare etc.
Getting hair
They do so many of them that they will be the best implants you could reasonably get. It's the same as going to Thailand for a sex change op. They are renowned for that specific thing. They have some of the best hospitals in the world.
Its hard to get your head round but turkish medical procedures are by far more experienced than uk. Numbers game i guess.
So why are all complex procedures done in the UK, US, Switzerland? Why are rich people and athletes not going to Turkey to get it done?
Its a hair transplant, mate. You could learn to do it in an afternoon. Weird question btw as the systems are completely different. Usa has very poor record on complex procedures. It has a system of pay for hope when a decent and more ethical doctor would be truthful and tell you the truth. Uk private is exceptional but the nhs is engrained into society that people still choose it even if extremely wealthy. Poland/ romania/ korea, fucking chilie are all higher regarded. Things are cheaper because costs are cheaper and big industry don’t have a monopoly
You said "turkish medical procedures are by far more experienced than uk". So I asked if that's the case why are rich people from the UK not flying out to Turkey to get anything done medically? Can you answer that question instead of rambling on about hair transplants and other nonsense?
Do you know any rich people personally. Because your guess is wrong. But those that do are just scared to go out their comfort zone. Nobody from turkey is flying to uk/usa for a medical procedure unless its a bullshit experiment treatment that just cons you out to pf money. Think what you are saying ffs
I have never heard of a rich person or athlete going to Turkey to get anything done. It's always UK, US, Switzerland.
Are these athletes from uk/usa/switzerland by any chance?
No. They just don’t want to get it done in Turkey for obvious reasons.
Cool youve met me who happens to be a medical professional in the uk. You do know athletes and probably rich people have high insurance premiums that would require procedures be conducted in a country that aligns with their legal framework. Tax and company profit is why its dearer in usa or uk but since already paid insurance it doesnt matter for the wealthy. Btw the majority of medical procedures for athletes are done in Finland. I would also urge you to look up the difference between minor cosmetic procedure and actual surgery. A hair transplant is in the same league as teeth whitening
>Nobody from turkey is flying to uk/usa for a medical procedure This is also false. A lot of the world's leading oncologists and cancer centers are based in London and I can guarantee you that rich Turks with the disease are flying out to the UK for a second opinion and/or treatment.
Not at all lmao 🤣
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Please, dummy. I know a lot of Turkish expats who work in London in executive roles and generally live a great life (that is not accessible to most Brits anyway) yet they come to Turkey for medical purposes. Many techniques and lasers used in surgeries are also pretty advanced here. I don’t know why a (presumably) American dares to shit on Turkish Health Care while it’s better than most European countries which was also evident back in Covid.
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Not to mention the US doesn’t even have free healthcare like we do. Such a backward country
Affordable healthcare is good but I’d rather pay more for much better quality healthcare and more experienced doctors that you get in America. You can’t put a price on good health.
The average doctor in Turkey is more experienced than the average doctor in the UK, that’s not a hard concept to understand unless you’re a Brit
You get a hairy Turkey.
Look like a helmet on the flight home.
Read an article on this. Basically any surgery you get better with experience, and quality doesn't change much even if you went to a place with more safety regulations. Hair transplant surgeons in Turkey have more patients to practice with its popularity, they get better at it.
The issue is how well any complications that may arise are dealt with by the Turkish provider. Whether it’s hair transplantation or my other form of surgery, however skilled the surgeon/specialist is…. complications arise, such as post operative infection. The NHS chief medical officer has recently reminded NHS hospitals and GPs that the NHS should not be providing any pre- or post-operative care for people who have sought private surgery abroad and have suffered post operative issues on their return home. Such patients must pay for treatment in the private sector or return to the hospital or clinic abroad.
Nice trip to Turkey?
I suppose it would make for novel conversation around the Christmas dinner table
As long as you have the right level of travel insurance policy you get to fly back in a private jet and be transported in a private ambulance to an NHS hospital to have your sepsis treated back in the UK.
"turkey"--- some part of the body i havent heard of....
You can give it a perm on Christmass?
Cheaper and you get a holiday at thr same time. Or do yourself a favour and shave your head and realise that life's just easier that way anyway.
If you find a good surgeon, the surgical outcomes are better. I’m looking into a breast reduction and UK plastic surgeons generally have shit results. I’ve looked at surgeons in Turkey, Belgium, Sweden, Prague, Germany and UK plastic surgeons are not as talented. No idea why they charge so much, they’re crap!
Financials aside, they usually pick you up in a nixe car and put you up in a nice hotel. My cousin went to have his done (ultimately decided against it) and said the experience was lovely
Nope, just be a man and don’t do it.
OR be a man and do do it
personally I think shopping around internationally for the cheapest way to get a medical procedure done seems bonkers. There are so many horror stories.
Would have thought it would have been more beneficial to have hair implants in a bald eagle personally. They probably have more of a complex about that type of thing
Your turkey will no longer be bald
I'm some rando on the internet but I'd recommend not going to Turkey to get any medical procedures. My best friend is a dentist and has had to refuse patients treatment due to having things like implants overseas. If there are any problems UK based dentists will not touch the work done and more likely than not you'll have to go back to to get it fixed. Sanitation is also questionable as my mate has told me he seen a few people come back with STDs, in particular HIV after medical procedures. They saved a few grand and traded it for life long medical complications
> as my mate has told me he seen a few people come back with STDs, in particular HIV after medical procedures. Source.
You know his source, he literally just told you.
Aye mate, you’re right. I should have put absolute faith in a Redditors mate putting it out there that Turkey is infecting British tourists with STD’s during hair transplants. Because that sounds like the most intelligent thing I’ve ever heard. (more seriously, if this _has_ happened, then I’d be fascinated to read more about it)
Noone has said you should. Do you demand every statement your mates say be provided with peer reviewed research too so that you're able to share it on the internet? Or more likely do you just take it for what it is and compare it to other information if you're ever in a situation to need it? I get what you mean, but it's a bit much of an ask for someone just sharing what they've been told so that others can know it's worth reading up on before acting either way.
Yeah that’s not how stds and hiv spread.
Life threatening infections?
What I found interesting is you have to take drugs after the transplant (forever) to stop it falling out again.
Not exactly true... you take a drug (finasteride) to stop the remaining natural hair around it from falling out. The transplanted hair should remain regardless, as it's from a region of the scalp where hairs are resistant to the hormone that causes the hairs to miniturise.
My mistake, thanks for letting me know.
What I find interesting is how that’s not true at all. It’s your own hair, it’s not donor hair, you don’t have to take anything to stop it from falling out.
What I find interesting is how you Finasteride for months or years after the procedure. Have you even googled it.
No you don’t. Fina is optional if you want to stop your other hair from falling out. But it has nothing to do with the hair transplant itself. You’re talking about a subject that you have zero understanding of.
Looks like I know as much as you do based on the rubbish you're posting.
What rubbish lmao? I’m just debunking the utter bs you’re posting so people don’t get confused.
Shall I post the government websites about hair loss or is the government against you??
Just embrace your baldness man it gives you a rustic dad look that will leave all the ladies wanting a real man. Own it
Shave it dude, people that go to these lengths are letting it dominate their mind. Own it, shave it and enjoy the freedom. Check out r/bald there are a lot of guys going through what you are. There's no guarantee a transplant will work and the scarring can be horrific
Nah. It’s either shave it or pay for a transplant. Nothing wrong with either option but ladies will like hair transplants more.
Women go for confidence, not someone so self obsessed and with such low self esteem that they plumb the depths of one of those ridiculous brushes on their head.
Shave your head and embrace being bald. It's far cheaper and it may suit you.
Why would you want a hairy turkey?
Its cheap and thats it. Personally i think that people that go for cheap cosmetic operations in a developing country where standards are far less rigorously enforced than they are in the UK is an absolute lunatic, but each to their own
Women flocking all over you at Istanbul airport on the way home, as in did it hurt? Where did you go? How much was it etc etc? Even I was tempted to stay a bit longer and go get a treatment, these guys were living their best lives that day.
It's cheaper initially and then the NHS cover the costs for free if it all goes tits up after.
Loosing 200g if they take a kidney?
Free mrsa?
Pros - cheaper Cons - could die
Don't do it,..... there are some terrible cases on youtube where people have gone to Turkey and ended up in hospital because of things that have been done wrong.
About the same as getting brain surgery round the back of the butchers shop. Too many horror stories.
Just accept it you’re going bald it’s happened to lots of guys before you and will happen to let’s of guys after you
You’d get a free infection with every purchase.