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I think it comes from a lack of stimulation. Lots of down time leads to finding things to be annoyed about, or that get blown out of proportion.
My Grandmother was a fascinating lady. Had an incredible knowledge of Ancient Egypt, and had spent some time with the archaeological digs out there. She's lived a full and incredible life, but in her elderly years was angry about Iceland's ready meals not being what they used to be, and the crossing near her flat being changed from a zebra crossing to a pelican crossing, etc.
For most elderly people, they were once vibrant, busy, and had a lot to think about and learn. When they become elderly and don't have those things to fulfil them, they find fulfilment in other things, often trivial.
I’ve got a 40 year old sister and 60 year old aunt who are both disabled. They’re slowly getting more insular, more cut off from the world, and more angry. Tiny inconveniences take a massive toll on them emotionally. They are basically elderly before their years.
There’s a weird parallel with reality tv. When you lock someone away in a box in elstree with a load of knobs for weeks, denying them external stimulation, suddenly they’re willing to argue about the pettiest things.
I've had long covid for the last four years, and have been predominantly housebound in that time. It's difficult to explain quite how much that affects somebody. It's the loss of autonomy and agency - there's so much stuff bound up in that. We're not really designed to feel totally reliant on others outside of infancy (or very old age), and when the people we do now find ourselves reliant on have no actual investment in our wellbeing (think, random supermarket couriers), it really stings, because you know there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. You're really at everybody's mercy all the time, and that doesn't mean anything to anybody else. That loss of power is disconcerting. You end up feeling vulnerable, uncared for and discarded by society. So, small things end up totally wrecking your day because those small things are infused with all of this.
I think it's partly to do with control, too. If you lose control over your physical body, and your agency, you end up really wanting to control everything around you that you can (as a primitive safety thing I think), and having random stuff in your life change when you didn't want or expect it to can feel quite destabilising in a way that it doesn't when you're able-bodied.
It's definitely something I have to try to stay mindful of and choose to battle as much as possible (because it makes it difficult to have a happy, integrated life), but it seems to be human nature.
My mum is an adult learning disability nurse, and works hard with people needing support but living in the community to make sure they can keep their "Locos of Control" I think she calls it. People need to feel in control of their lives, otherwise they get frustrated/depressed.
Things like, learning disabled adults choosing their own bedtimes - they have schedules with daily visitors and having a stupid bedtime will disrupt since they'll still have to wake up on time, but they won't die and they're adults so should be allowed to live as they choose. Or allowing people to eat junk food, even if it is bad for them, because if they understand it is unhealthy and choose it anyway, you shouldn't force learning disabled people just to make them easier to deal with.
Losing independance must be really hard to deal with and I think it would make any person depressed, and probably is something that therapy or at least being very open with trusted friends is needed otherwise you'll go mad. Or I can send my mum around, she is excellent at giving vulnerable people their agency back again
Thank you! That's interesting to learn.
I'd send your mum round to one of my friends first. They're more severely ill than me (bedbound) and reliant on minimum wage carers, most of whom haven't been very effective. It means even the small dignities in their life have been taken because they aren't having things like regular meal times, or the specific, small things they ask for listened to, which also removes some sense of personhood. It's infantilising, yet it doesn't come with the sense of love and protection that most of us experience in infancy. It's the worst of both worlds.
The trend I've seen is that the more people in this situation (previously abled) become reliant on care, the more their health worsens as a result, because that sense of a loss of autonomy (and hence helplessness) becomes entrenched, and they start to feel deeply disempowered to make gains in their health and functionality. Doubly so if the people responsible for their care aren't doing so with compassion and due attention, because again your sense of self-esteem and self-worth dwindles with your sense of personhood.
‘Under the mental capacity act of 2013…’
Yes I have learning disabilities , no I’m not stupid
(I have a person like your mum, I’d say worth their weigh in gold, but there is not enough gold in the world for how great they are)
Yeah, I totally get it.
The intersection of the isolation and disability / illness is really interesting. You’ve described disability brilliantly, but I also think isolation is really interesting.
It does weird things to you, there was really interesting stuff about it in lockdown. We’re programmed to deal with a series of petty annoyances, so much so it becomes useful. You get cut up in traffic and bin your horn then forget about it, then later some prick jumps a queue and you get pissed off and bounce back. The whole process is cathartic.
In the absence of that you build up tension with nowhere for it to go. I’ve been unemployed for a while and I’ve definitely found that to be the case for me. Not having Barrie in accounts to whinge about makes me care about the washing up so much more.
Thats my idea for a new reality TV show.
**One of our contestants is rich, and never checks his bank balance!**
14 women. 14 men. Let the footlicking and toadying commence!
My 80 odd year old father likes to go through all the takeaway menus that come through his door, looking for spelling mistakes, which he then circles. That really is trivial!
My favourite things to wind Dad up involve conflating things from the past with the modern day.
‘I’m heading out to start the car.’ ‘You mind that crank handle at your age Dad’
‘Best shut the gates’ ‘oh I wouldn’t Dad, second post is due soon’
‘Bargain Hunt is on again.’ ‘Never mind, Kenny Everett is up next’
I’d imagine the anger effect is somewhat similar
Oh that’s perfect for me. I will put that down as one of my retirement plans. At the moment I’m far too busy making replying to Reddit posts with, “It’s lose not loose”.
Since he’s retired, my dad takes great pleasure in ripping up offers to apply for credit cards etc and posting them back to the originators.
He also goes through every bill meticulously and once spent 2 hours on the phone to Virgin Media as he had calculated that they owed him 47p
This is the answer. Minor things become a massive deal. My grandparents would tell you that they're very busy on Fridays and couldn't possibly fit anything else in... they literally go to the supermarket and that's it but its a massive thing to them becasue they have nothing else to do.
It's sad.
My parents are like that. Mum has been retired less than a year, dad since first lockdown and they apparently don't have time to do things despite having far more time than they did when they working. They only get to the gym twice a week because that's all they can manage to fit in... I work 40 hours a week yet manage to go 3 times a week, swimming 4 times and other activities. It's like they can only do one thing per day and the rest of the day is written off.
The biggest mental decline in an adults life is at the point of retirement.
I’m not saying people should work until death obviously, but you need to keep the old grey matter occupied.
Yes, it's definitely this. People in prisons are the same way. Everything in the immediate surroundings is the biggest thing ever. There's nothing to do so even the smallest thing is huge. Exactly the same mechanism.
It is very hard.
As far as I can understand it (I am 63 so I have known lots and lots of elderly people), as one gets older, one's body works progressively less well. That makes one more and more risk averse, it makes one feel one has less and less control over the world, and so smaller and smaller things seem more annoying and scary.
One cannot do anything about the deterioration of one's body, about one's mortality; therefore one takes it out on one's environment.
Change even in trivial things becomes annoying and scary, so one grumbles about them.
How can an older person be different? Have stuff to live for, basically- family, grandchildren, fulfilling work or voluntary activity that continues in old age.
100% this.
When I was younger I just assumed people who became frail were in some way responsible for it - gave up exercising or ate badly etc - or were just unlucky and if you kept exercising you’d be ok.
Now in my mid 50s and I’ve got mild arthritis developing, and got a heart arrhythmia (drinking plated a part) and despite exercising as much as I ever used to and eating less than I used to I can’t shift the weight.
I jogged and did weights all my life. It seems as you get older stuff just happens.
This. It is likely a generational trait. I see it a lot in the generation born 1930-1948 in the UK.
I have planned out my forthcoming retirement, even allowing for a deterioration in physical health along the way. I have hobbies which require intellectual stimulation as well as ensuring I walk a lot during the day. One risk averse behaviour I had was to worry about towing the caravan so stopped taking it out. However I recognised this and with the help of a friend who drives a truck for a living, he got me back out on the road and I am happily towing again.
My parents generation in general never planned for retirement, perhaps because they didn’t expect to live so long. My mother has become isolated in her own home or in the case of the aunt, now deteriorating in a care home. The key is physical activity first, then mental.
My gran spent an hour on the phone to my mum in a rage because she didn't like the new kitchen her next door neighbours had put in.... a kitchen in another persons house... that she has never and will never enter.
I really don’t think this is just an ‘elderly’ thing. I work with elderly people all the time (healthcare) and I’m constantly impressed by how good an attitude many of them have, despite having some awful diagnoses. In fact, it’s usually the younger generations who give us the most grief when eg waiting times are long.
Getting angry at trivial things is very common with people who have too much time on their hands, so the elderly and teenagers along with the unemployed or people with health conditions meaning that they can’t work are prime candidates.
Speaking as somebody who spent a good amount of time working for a large UK retailer, all I can say is that I get where OP is coming from.
By far the most troublesome customers were the older generation. They can make the slightest issue into a major incident and will often be incredibly rude in the prices. On many occasions they could he downright nasty.
It's partly because we understand the world less & less as we age. Words change, norms change, music everything. It can get lonely, bewildering and more living in a world you're aware is leaving you behind. As this happens you cling to the things you _do_ know. When even these little things change it's an annoyance. It _will_ come to you.
When your nearest surviving bank or Post Office becomes further and further away, you no longer can drive because of deteriorating eyesight and hearing and the local bus service has been reduced or withdrawn and you are told ‘you can do it online’ and you can’t because of your deteriorating eyesight, you start to feel justified in being cantankerous.
To be fair, we revisited this later and there was a nugget of good advice in it. Turned out that the NHS had a mobile breast cancer screening unit in the supermarket car park for the next three Wednesdays and it was causing havoc with the parking.
Didn't you get your allotted supermarket shopping days given to you alongside your National Insurance number just before you turned 16?
Imagine if you've been shopping on the wrong days all this time, the council men will NOT be happy!
My mum fixates on inconsequential things because she doesn’t have enough to occupy her mind and (not now because she’s clearly declining and that it would be unfair to say this in relation to her now but I wonder if there is a correlation) she didn’t really make much effort to find enough things to occupy her mind. When my dad was alive, she had him, and since she hasn’t something like an unusual car being parked in the street overnight (obviously a neighbour with a relative visiting) becomes hugely important, and now she’s mentally declining and part of me thinks is that because she’s fallen out of the habit of thinking? I live 250 miles away and I don’t drive and we all know the trains are shite so while I do visit as often as I can all I can do otherwise is phone her which I have done every day or two for the past 5 years and try as we might, me and my sister have never got her to get involved in anything outside of her 2/3 times a fortnight seeing her friends. Who also have very little to talk about.
And yet she’s in awe of a friend 10 years older who is ‘marvellous’ because she travels by herself and does yoga and goes abroad and uses the internet and none of those things were out of my mums reach until she accepted somewhere that they were. I think you become old when you believe you are old, and if you don’t believe you are and that it’s all downhill and you should just strap yourself into the armchair then you won’t.
I sound angry with my mum and I kind of am; she was so together until my dad passed and I absolutely don’t disagree depression and grief had a lot to do with it, but it’s as if the moment to choose to defy that has passed and she’s accepted she’s old (she’s 75, I don’t think that’s actually that old these days) and that that’s it and I think giving up on yourself is a real thing. I don’t need advice because we have tried everything and she’s being investigated for dementia now; I just wish she’d picked up on her sense of herself even before my dad passed and found a way to be for herself but she never did, even earlier in life; she has always been about us or someone else or anyone else but never her, and now it seems it’s too late because we have the same conversation every time we speak, so I think think of yourself is the answer.
This is a worry I have for my mum- my dad passed away last year and she had a very fulfilling life with him and her own social life. I live abroad so I often feel guilty that I’m not there to support her on a day-to-day basis.
But nearly a year on after my father’s death she’s almost found herself again. She’s got regular things she does weekly and keeps herself busy.
One thing that has also been useful is joining circles / groups for widows who have been through what she has.
Sorry, I haven’t got anything material to add. Just saw your comment and it resonated- hope it gets easier for you and your mum.
It just is what it is now, but thanks for your kind words. She has her (I wouldn’t hesitate to use this word critically if I was talking about myself but I’m talking about her, so I do) tiny world and at this point she isn’t capable of making it any bigger. But she could have been, before or after my dad passed because he would never have objected to her finding her own interests and for a while she did, fleetingly, like everything else. But she shrunk it all down to nothing while she managed his passing and by that point the idea of age had set in and she gave up. Simple things like learning how to accept a FaceTime call became completely implausible so I sound like I’m blaming her a bit and I am; it would have been so little effort for something like that, we went out and bought her a phone she could have worked and she chose not to. I feel like her grandkids’ friends FaceTime with their grandparents but it was just so impossibly modern for her that she didn’t even try to learn how to do it, even though it was just a different screen. She frustrates me as much as I understand her.
It was like that for my nan and she was at least 85 when my grandad died and was very dependent on him. She had carers in to help and it took a while but eventually my dad managed to find some social clubs for her to attend during the week, which she was reluctant to go to but eventually tried and liked some of them.
One time when I was visiting her she basically booted me out the house after I'd only been there about half an hour so she could go to her club. When I finally got my sat nav sorted and started driving home, I spotted her about a mile away from her house tazzing along the path at about 15mph on her mobility scooter. It did make me laugh, it was a big change to who she was when my grandad was around or the year or so after he died (she'd just sit inside and expect people to visit her for the whole day). Sadly she had a fall not long after that, had to go into a home and deteriated with dementia rapidly, but it was nice that she had that period after my grandad died where she learned to have some sort of happiness in life again.
One of my jobs is to get old people to join social clubs to help keep them independent and I wish I could just show them all this. Persuading them to try something new is the hardest part of the job by far and so many don't, but those that do end up having a great time.
I've heard older people in their seventies say "well, that's my three score and ten", as if it's just an inevitability that you can't do anything except decline and wait to die once you hit that age.
Some people do get dealt a rough hand in terms of health, but I think a lot of people do choose not to be physically and mentally active. Retirement is portrayed as some wonderful prize.To some it is - one friend is incredible at her age; walking the West Highland Way, going to gigs, volunteering all over the place... but I've seen it absolutely destroy others within the space of a year.
I think there are some better provisions for retirement planning now, thankfully.
Keep busy.
I watched it first hand with the declining health of my grandfather. He worked until he was 92, which sounds bleak, but he loved what he did, and knew *full well* keeping busy was the key to his old age strength, and keeping is mind active.
The *very second* he had to stop working to full time care for my grandmother and deal with her dementia was like watching his health free fall off a cliff. It really was uncanny.
His muscular arms atrophied, his mind slowed, and he lost the ability to walk. This didn't happen in the space of years, this happened in the space of about 7 months, and then he died. On his 92nd birthday, he could fight a bear and sharp as a tack. And before he'd even gotten to 93 he was a feeble husk begging for death. He experienced none of this before stopping work. A combination of stress, and stopping work is without a doubt caused his death. He could handle the stress, as he had for years beforehand, my grandmothers dementia hadn't come out of nowhere. But he couldn't handle sitting around doing nothing not working.
The thing is, so many things went into his work that were beneficial for his health. It gave him a schedule, to regularly wake up, have meals, wash. He moved around, concentrated, thought about things, was actively engaged. He got on with chores, used his strength, did gardening as recreation. Once he was unable to work, all that enrichment stopped.
My grandfather always said "The moment you stop moving, you die". It's truly a borderline spiritual moment in my life to realize just how right he was.
What a wonderful career! Expert craftsmanship for a great purpose. That's the kind of job that's inherently rewarding, no wonder he didn't want to stop doing it.
I don't think what you think is 'elderly' is the common understanding it.
Cantankerous, yes, elderly? No.
Anyway, as cognitive ability declines as a result of old age, injury, social media people turn into arseholes.
But dw, you can push them over and unlike weebles they do stay done.
Neither my parents or in laws are cantankerous, they just let their day to day lives get derailed by minor inconvenience.
I admit I try my best to wind them up a lot. My Mum occasionally has dodgy hearing and if she says something along the lines of ‘bit of a breeze today’ I’ll sigh and reply something like ‘Squeeze? No. Not much of a Jools Holland fan Mum. I did like ABC though’ . I just enjoy the blank looks in return.
Cantankerous means to always find things to moan about, that pretty much means taking issue with minor inconveniences.
But 10/10 for winding them up, remember, you never asked to be born.
Na, cantankerous just means basically Mr Meldrew as opposed Hyacinth Bucket.
Meldrew moans about everything whereas mrs bucket moans at things she thinks are below her which is usually people.
Come from someone who is partially deaf and uses hearing aids, it’s shitty to use someone’s hearing problem to ‘wind them up’
It might (and hopefully will be) you one day struggling to hear. It’s horrible.
I’m understand why you might say that if that’s how you reflect on the situation, but different families have different ways of using humour. Mum knows exactly what I’m doing as it’s usually followed by a whack with a tea towel and a withering ‘you know exactly what I said’. I also suspect in a funny sort of way she would miss it if I started treating her like a ming vase. Equally if she told me to pack it in I’d stop instantly.
Exercise - maintain proximal muscle tone, don't 'suffer a fall'.
Socialise - get the hell out of the house, talk to people.
Liberalise - your viewpoint may well have inched to the centre or right over the years, educate yourself and avoid using the phrase 'back in my day'.
I think all of those problems can be solved by adapting to change? What you've asked is an interesting question, but I think a big part of it, is just keeping up with the modern world. Wherever it may go. I for one, welcome our AI overlords.
I have relatives who still refuse to use the internet at all. They pay bills by cheque at the post office, won't have direct debits, have never shopped or banked online. Won't pay by card, always cash. They just refuse to accept change.
well, aren't they losing money if they refuse to accept change? I mean, really, if you pay £5 for something that's only £4.93, you've lost 7p more than needed! /joking
My mum isn't this bad but she's only 62 and terrible with technology. She can't even connect to the wifi without help. I bring it up to her because my dad has always worked in tech and he does everything and I just say if he dies you literally won't be able to do anything without help. Some people are set in their ways, my 86 year old grandma is better at technology than my mum. I guess it's all about being open to it
I think some of it is fear and some of it is obstinance. The relative in question is only 15 years older than me and is one of the 'They cant tell me what to do' brigade. Im sure he and his wife are eligable for some age related benefits but they refuse to even contemplate applying or let anyone do it on their behalf because 'You don't want them to know your business'. It is pointless trying to convince them otherwise, their own adult children have been trying for years. Everytime we see them its always the same conversation. They even refused to read the electricity meter or have have a smart meter because they thought the meter reader should do it, who comes round about every two years, then complained that they had expensive estimated bills. They wont even have LED bulbs.
Some elderly people are genuinely terrified that the internet means scammers and hackers and losing all their money. Especially if they watch all the scam warning programmes on daytime TV!
A lot of the currently elderly were adults in a time before self awareness, therapy and everything we now know to be harmful when raising children. They may carry unprocessed traumas, or never learned to vent their frustrations. Getting old can be terrifying (e.g. an atheist who believes their self is destroyed when they die), if they never learned to talk about their feelibgs, they will find other ways to air their frustrations.
Keep smiling, keep moving, and keep doing something interesting.
When you stop being interested you find your time is filled by staring at your slippers wondering when Repossessed Homes, Five in a Bed, Slightly Incontinent and Moaning Women are next on TV.
Doing stuff that keeps your mind active helps. And doing anything new. My parents (80s) have got roped into a huge legal mate helping their friend sort out trusts and stuff for another friend's will, bequests to museums and such - but it and the required meetings in town have really ensured they got back into the world post-Covid.
They also do cryptic crosswords, meet friends regularly, go on holidays that includes lectures and a group to hang out with. They're a bit slower in the brain than they used to be, and when in pain or worried do get hung up on particular things, but on the whole they and in-laws are doing pretty well.
The whole 'flexibility of thought' thing is possibly just them feeling more able to voice stubbornness and not wanting change than they used to - they're probably all autistic, given the offspring.
I think the best way to avoid turning into a witterer that gets hung up on minor thing did to have a plan for retirement. Regular hobbies or volunteering, anything that gives you a routine getting you out the house with something to do. Rattling around in the house without things to keep you occupied make you worry far too much about what little routine you have (catching the bus at a particular stop)
My MIL is 87 and she's younger in mind and spirit than the vast majority of 40 somethings I know. I haven't yet worked out her secret entirely, but it seems to mostly revolve around keeping the mind active. Never stop learning and keep an open mind, that's what I'm doing, at least.
As you get older, your world shrinks. Long drives don’t happen etc. with this your social life shrinks too giving less to talk about and little changes in your environment are a bigger concern
This happens if you get sick or are caring for a sick person too.
My partner (52) was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer last year. We have gone from being a sociable couple who went out most nights, travelled the world and had frequent holidays and weekends away to barely leaving the house.
I’m only 42 and I feel like my world has shrunk to a 10 mile radius and I’m living the life of an elderly person.
Stay social and mobile for starters.
My parents moved to live near us and my mum regularly says how much she hates it. Before they moved, she hated where they lived and couldn’t wait to move.
She has no friends, never has. Her and my dad were always out and about and holidaying. Covid and lockdown really slowed them down and once things were back to normal my dad’s health then started to decline.
He’s now not able to drive and mum has never driven. So they are now isolated.
I do feel for them, but I worry that although we are close by, they have no friends their age. We see them regularly but conversation is quite often very tricky as they haven’t done anything other than watch TV and read the Daily Mail/Express. Their world is shrinking and they get increasingly angry about the world/NHS/technology.
Less walking = less fitness/muscle mass/balance/core strength = increased risk of falling = worry about walking = reduced socialising = increased isolation = decline 😦
Echoes of all the other posts here.
Elderly technically means "a bit old" - it used to be used for people who were approaching old age, rather than the very old, but it started being used euphemistically, and now if you hear "an elderly person" you picture someone in their 90s, which really isn't what the word means!
I train Brazilian jiu jitsu. There is a guy who is 65( I think) who started at age 60 after he retired. He said he retired and got so bored so quickly from just doing nothing.
So now he trains about 4 times a week. And whilst he is obviously not as quick as the guys in their 20's, he is in very good shape compared to a lot of other people his age.
I think you just need to keep your mind stimulated.
I am the older one amongst you who sometimes comments.
This is normal for many older people, but unless you get dementia you do not have to live that life.
I **currently** do not have to worry about work, money, looking after my kids 24/7, so minor day to day challenges will be more at the forefront of my day to day life than when I was younger.
I choose to mostly tackle these with humour, or a bit of swearing and occasionally some actual action, but understand that may change.
I work hard to stay engaged with the wider world both in real life and virtually.
As you get older your "world" will shrink. Your family and friends will die, your health will decline.
Plan for that well in advance and talk about it with your family.
I have lived a good life and everyone knows that if I qualify for Dignitas that is where I want to go.
The major symptom seems to be hating change of any kind, so I guess all you can do is try and keep in mind that you need to embrace it rather than fight it. How easy or even possible that is I’ll find out in a few decades!
Honestly I think that the world is just changing negatively in a bunch of ways and some people are more realistic about it.
Back in the day we had to queue at the supermarket but there were 27 tills and each one had a person on it who was devoting 100% of their attention to your shop. I used to work in a shop like that. It was a bit crap but it was okay.
Now you have self service and it's common for one overworked older lady to be running about dealing with up to 15 customers at once.
One seemingly silly example, but this stuff is everywhere and as you age you can remember how it used to be
It is frustrating to see things get worse. The only things that have really gotten better in my lifetime have been as a result of me working hard and moving up the social ladder. When you are on a fixed income you can't do that.
Stay physically and mentally active for as long as possible. My granddad was doing his shopping at Tesco right up until the week he died. He was a regular at the local butchers and they sent us a present when he passed because they noticed he had not been in and wanted to check up on him. He had to slow down a little bit as he passed 90, however he refused to stop and rely solely on the rest of us to look after him.
You also notice the difference between the retired guys at my gym who have always been active vs. those who only took up being active once they retired. Those who started later are seriously out of shape compared to those who have always been active.
The only thing I am trying to remember as I get older is that the people who seem to retire and just stay in and watch tv do nothing else but they seem to go hill very fast. But then people who say go out walking for ages or take a dog for a walk or do things seem to be capable and do things for a lot longer.
Staying busy. My grandad worked until he was about 76 out of choice, then tended his allotment every day for 12 years after that. Now he paints and has a small vegetable patch at home and is still not really elderly.
I remember being taken to the beach by him when i was younger and we kicked a rugby ball around for 3 hours or so, he was probably about 75 at the time.
I like to hope that by the time my body starts to decline significantly, I can just be hooked up to some kind of VR system (assuming my eyes still work) and some pretty awesome drugs and just live out my days in VR where I can still do stuff. the way VR is developing these days, It's not too mad to hope.
My dad is 87, still does gardening, painting, is up and down ladders, does house work, walks to the shops for his morning paper and bacon roll etc.
The trick as far as I can tell with him is staying active both physically and mentally. Continue to engage with life. He'd still be driving if we allowed it but his reaction times aren't what they were and he was beginning to drive more defensively up until a couple of years ago when we had that conversation with him. Tbh he was properly pissed but accepted the fact he had the potential to become a risk to himself and others.
It's only in the last 6 months he's slowed down a bit with all the activities as he got Covid again last year and he tires a bit quicker than he used to. Plenty of naps appears to be key too 😂
My MIL is a neuropsychologist. She is in her 60s and she's constantly learning new things, forcing her brain to work and form new connections. She's also still working (because pensions in my homeland are a laughing stock), so that adds up as well. And she always says that you have to keep training your brain as long as you are alive. I must say, she has one of the most flexible and vivid personalities among the people I know, and she can easily compete with people much younger. Which proves her point that yeah, neuroplasticity is a thing, and it needs to be taken care of regardless of age.
I think as you get older any change can feel unnecessary and worse. In some cases it is actually worse, but if you don't have enough self-awareness about this presumption then you end up labelling any change as bad. I'm 31 and hoping that I don't turn into someone who just complains about everything.
This could also be a neurodiverse thing, not just an "elderly" thing. Maybe your MIL was always like that. It reminds me of myself a bit too if I'm honest.
I don't think you can. I'm nearly r2 but my version of 'elderly' versus older vs emotionally entrenched in years ago will be very different.
My grandmother died Xmas of 2019. Pre covid. If you gave me a list f "elerly" ways.. she would probably have hit 4 or 5... but she was 95 at the time. My partners grandmother was 'elderly' before she turned 80.
Honestly, I take the piss with my parents (and they often laugh about it) about NO FUN ALLOWED in their house when the moaning about trivial crap comes out.
I'm under the assumption that it's a fucking lottery. I meet plenty of old people in my job (admittedly they come to me so I won't ever meet the shut ins). It seems it doesn't matter about wealth, activity, willingness to adventure etc, that people just turn into stereotypical elderly.
Completely unscientific but purely anecdotal
As our minds age and tire, they become less flexible, and it is easier for us to take comfort in falling into easily remembered and followed routine behaviour. It seems that the fewer decisions we have to make to get through the day, the better the we seem to be able to cope.
When those routines are broken, it becomes a major source of irritation because it requires considerable mental effort to absorb new information and patterns, and to feel as comfortable dealing with our daily lives as we were before the change.
That is why it is so important to keep our minds challenged for as long as possible by continuing working, learning a new language, maintaining and improving our social contacts, and starting new hobbies. Anything that will help to stop the mundane daily rote of our lives from becoming the most important thing.
I'm 72 and I'm just starting to notice the signs of mental laziness. How long I can resist the decline remains to be seen. When I hit 80, I'll post an update. If I am not too irritated by having mislaid my slippers.
As a guy who's fortunate enough to still have all his grandparents with us despite them all being in their late 80's one set is still the same people they were in their 60's the other set have become very elderly very quickly. The key difference seems to be that one set has stayed active, kept up their hobbies, finding ways to adjust as they get older rather than just jacking them in (for example still cycling, just switching the pedal bike for an E bike, swapping long distance countryside walks with shorter distances with a metal detector etc) and staying social, speaking and interacting with people of all ages still at clubs or events, finding ways to got to town for a coffee regularly, doing their best to stay up do date with technology etc. (don't get me wrong my Nan is still a stubborn old lunatic when she wants to be, but according to my dad there's no change there from when he was young :P)
The other set has let themselves become really isolated and really anti social, Giving up on the things they did for years rather than adjusting so they still could keep doing them etc. and have very quickly become very...old (for lack of a better way to describe it) I'm at a point where my youngest grandparents look and act the oldest by a country mile. and it very much feels like something they let happen rather than something that's happened to them
I, married male 74 y.o., have enough structured time; gym classes 4 times a week, relaxation time; 2 days with campervan and dog, and learning time; constant stream of library books and online courses that my life continually improves. This is in addition to golf, gardening etc. and a fantastic wife :-)
My health may be (very) slowly changing but nothing that I can’t adapt to. I take interest in what is going on, but not too much to be concerned with whatsoever is the current topic of conversation. I rarely watch the news but have a ‘light’ interest in current affairs.
As soon as you start calling yourself “elderly “ you become elderly. Just get on with life and spend very little time looking in the mirror!
If you don't want to be physically elderly, Keep working and incredibly laborious job well into your 80s. All the old farmers I know are skinny and hunched over, but can throw bales even better than me, and without breaking a sweat (Though perhaps that's a glandular problem)
When you’ve had a good rich life, and then get to the point where there’s basically nothing to look forward to, and your body barely works, and you’re aware that you mind isn’t what it used to be, it must be very hard to maintain a positive outlook.
I really don't think my comment is going to help, for which I apologise. However I do think it *may* be slightly valid.
We all grow up, life changes alot. I'm in my 40s, talking to me kids.. they see thing differently. I will struggle with generation Z and Alpha thoughts etc.
We ALL do this. It is part if what makes us human etc...
I have lived with so many divergent formalities.. when I get to elderly I'm pretty sure I will want a quite head. It means at that point you kind off say you aren't playing anymore.
The way society works/should work.. is that when you are elderly you will be yourself.
Being active. Once you become sedentary muscles tighten, takes more energy to move. Then weight gain, not drinking enough water because of constant trips to the loo. All a vicious circle.
From observing my own mum and her partner I'd say the most important things are to stay active and engaged. They both have loads of hobbies and boredom is an abstract concept to them. They're incapable of being bored. Mum got diagnosed with diabetes and her response was to start walking for miles every day. She's lost a fair bit of weight and is doing much better. They face minor inconveniences all the time and just roll with it, they don't get upset over trivial things.
So yeah I'd just say being active and having hobbies.
Be careful about moving out of easy reach of a city. The denseness of them allows for stuff like museums, galleries, gigs, talks on different subjects to happen so there'll always be a concentration of available activities to help keep a varied amount of interests going.
My grandparents are 83 and just turning 80 this month and aren't elderly. I completely put it down to how much walking they do. They come and visit me once a fortnight and walk for around an hour. They walk to to do their weekly shop around 40 mins each way. Most days they walk into town or to a garden centre about half an hour each way. It's pretty ingrained in all of us to just walk if possible, if it's long they just stop in a pub halfway. I'm the same, I'll walk to visit them and avoid busses for anything under than an hour's walk
In my non-medical opinion this sounds like the early stages of dementia. I’ve been through it with three of four of my grandparents and my mom’s cousin. She’s trying to hide it by adhering to rigidly to her routines and anything that isn’t what she KNOWS won’t commit into her memory, so it upsets her. She doesn’t want to admit even to herself that her mind is starting to fail but she can hide it as long as the world stays exactly the same, this is why minor changes are disproportionately upsetting.
Try get her tested so you can monitor the progression and start qualifying for assistance resources. Dealing with a loved one’s dementia on your own is hell, use your energy now to get help in place.
My parents are in their 70s and are in great shape.
They do pilates multiple times a week, ride horses (and compete) and go on multiple active holidays a year.
I think keeping active and having hobbies that engage you physically and mentally is key. It seems a lot of people struggle with retirement and don't really know what to do with themselves and it can be easy to do not much of anything.
Mental stimulation and purpose.
I work with a bunch of retired people. The oldest is 89 and all are in the ball. So I recommended volunteering somewhere that forces social interactions and learning.
I have a colleague who fakes being annoyed when someone starts off my saying they are elderly when they are younger than my colleague.
I volunteer at a charity and the other day I was paired up with a 75 year old woman who is an ambassador for Ageing Well which is an initiative in the local area. It might be worth looking for something similar in your area:
https://www.sunderland.gov.uk/ageingwell?ccp=true
You exercise to keep your body young, you try new things to keep your mind active, and you don't let anyone who's not a doctor tell you you're too old to do something, and even then you take it with a pinch of salt.
Tbh I know loads of people my age (early 40s) and younger like that. Some people are cantankerous by nature, and others don't get enough enrichment in their enclosure.
I'm disabled so I am limited in what I can do, but I do loads of stuff regardless both in and out of home. Keep doing and seeing new things (I don't travel really but I am active in the community and meet new people all the time), keep having new things to think and talk about.
You really dont need to think about that man, climate collapse will fix that problem for you. Enjoy your last years and dont worry about stuff like that.
Number 1. Never, ever, start talking about how much better it was in the 70s or 80s or 90s, or whatever decade it was when you were a child / teenager. No one wants to hear that shit, except other old people.
Number 2. Make sure to interact with a wide variety of people in person, especially people of different generations, take an interest in people and don't assume anything about them, just because they look or talk differently to you.
Number 3. Try learn new things, and when learning new things, don't go on about "used to be better in my day".
I am well within middle age now, and people of my generation are now moaning on Facebook... "oh kids cant play outside anymore, not like we used to ehhh?! ahhaha!" "We used to go clubbing and dance the night away in the 90s, these kids cant even stop watching tok tik, losers!", fucks sake, they don't realize they are already turning into old gits, I can see the transformation before my very eyes
I got a phone call from my dad yesterday apparently he’d been to see a psychiatrist because he was worried about his memory and the psychiatrist diagnosed him with the start of dementia and because of that he won’t be able to come down and visit me in my new home. When he told me I said that it was okay and that he was nearly 80 (he’s 79 next month) and that sometimes your memory and brain functions start to slow down.
Good grief how old are they I’m 70 my biggest complaint is not enough time to do what I want.
Age is an attitude, I guess it helped that until I was 68 I was still doing tech support in a primary school.
At 53 I don’t feel old, my body does, despite being active, using the gym and other various pursuits. It’s all in your mindset, the minute you start telling people you’re old and acting old, you start being old.
This doesn’t mean act the idiot and start believing you’re a 20 something again it means enjoy life, don’t be scared of your age, don’t be afraid of challenges or change, just remember the saying your as old as you feel…
To be honest your MIL sounds much more like a millennial than someone elderly!
Older people usually have no issues with change, as they know it's essential for progress. It's the younger people who haven't learned that yet that cant be arsed to walk around a corner.
Best way to avoid it is to grow old!
Haha! For the record, my MIL is lovely. But in the last 10yrs I’ve noticed that complaints have crept in bit. Small things like ‘this tea is too hot’ for example. She is also very tech savvy, banks online, proficient What’s App user etc.
It’s just become delightfully easy to wind her up and let her go by saying something in passing like ‘oooh I saw Waitrose aren’t giving away free coffee any more’ or ‘you ought to look at an electric car’
Seriously (my first comment, whilst true, was also a bit of a wind up the millennials post!), it may be that she is actually struggling or at least quite unhappy. In my experience, older people cling to what may seem like meaningless things when they feel the things that mattered to them are gone. Similarly if their comments like that seem out of place with a good grasp of technology etc.
A simple convo about "what do you miss these days" over a cuppa might really help.
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I think it comes from a lack of stimulation. Lots of down time leads to finding things to be annoyed about, or that get blown out of proportion. My Grandmother was a fascinating lady. Had an incredible knowledge of Ancient Egypt, and had spent some time with the archaeological digs out there. She's lived a full and incredible life, but in her elderly years was angry about Iceland's ready meals not being what they used to be, and the crossing near her flat being changed from a zebra crossing to a pelican crossing, etc. For most elderly people, they were once vibrant, busy, and had a lot to think about and learn. When they become elderly and don't have those things to fulfil them, they find fulfilment in other things, often trivial.
I’ve got a 40 year old sister and 60 year old aunt who are both disabled. They’re slowly getting more insular, more cut off from the world, and more angry. Tiny inconveniences take a massive toll on them emotionally. They are basically elderly before their years. There’s a weird parallel with reality tv. When you lock someone away in a box in elstree with a load of knobs for weeks, denying them external stimulation, suddenly they’re willing to argue about the pettiest things.
I've had long covid for the last four years, and have been predominantly housebound in that time. It's difficult to explain quite how much that affects somebody. It's the loss of autonomy and agency - there's so much stuff bound up in that. We're not really designed to feel totally reliant on others outside of infancy (or very old age), and when the people we do now find ourselves reliant on have no actual investment in our wellbeing (think, random supermarket couriers), it really stings, because you know there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. You're really at everybody's mercy all the time, and that doesn't mean anything to anybody else. That loss of power is disconcerting. You end up feeling vulnerable, uncared for and discarded by society. So, small things end up totally wrecking your day because those small things are infused with all of this. I think it's partly to do with control, too. If you lose control over your physical body, and your agency, you end up really wanting to control everything around you that you can (as a primitive safety thing I think), and having random stuff in your life change when you didn't want or expect it to can feel quite destabilising in a way that it doesn't when you're able-bodied. It's definitely something I have to try to stay mindful of and choose to battle as much as possible (because it makes it difficult to have a happy, integrated life), but it seems to be human nature.
My mum is an adult learning disability nurse, and works hard with people needing support but living in the community to make sure they can keep their "Locos of Control" I think she calls it. People need to feel in control of their lives, otherwise they get frustrated/depressed. Things like, learning disabled adults choosing their own bedtimes - they have schedules with daily visitors and having a stupid bedtime will disrupt since they'll still have to wake up on time, but they won't die and they're adults so should be allowed to live as they choose. Or allowing people to eat junk food, even if it is bad for them, because if they understand it is unhealthy and choose it anyway, you shouldn't force learning disabled people just to make them easier to deal with. Losing independance must be really hard to deal with and I think it would make any person depressed, and probably is something that therapy or at least being very open with trusted friends is needed otherwise you'll go mad. Or I can send my mum around, she is excellent at giving vulnerable people their agency back again
Thank you! That's interesting to learn. I'd send your mum round to one of my friends first. They're more severely ill than me (bedbound) and reliant on minimum wage carers, most of whom haven't been very effective. It means even the small dignities in their life have been taken because they aren't having things like regular meal times, or the specific, small things they ask for listened to, which also removes some sense of personhood. It's infantilising, yet it doesn't come with the sense of love and protection that most of us experience in infancy. It's the worst of both worlds. The trend I've seen is that the more people in this situation (previously abled) become reliant on care, the more their health worsens as a result, because that sense of a loss of autonomy (and hence helplessness) becomes entrenched, and they start to feel deeply disempowered to make gains in their health and functionality. Doubly so if the people responsible for their care aren't doing so with compassion and due attention, because again your sense of self-esteem and self-worth dwindles with your sense of personhood.
‘Under the mental capacity act of 2013…’ Yes I have learning disabilities , no I’m not stupid (I have a person like your mum, I’d say worth their weigh in gold, but there is not enough gold in the world for how great they are)
Yeah, I totally get it. The intersection of the isolation and disability / illness is really interesting. You’ve described disability brilliantly, but I also think isolation is really interesting. It does weird things to you, there was really interesting stuff about it in lockdown. We’re programmed to deal with a series of petty annoyances, so much so it becomes useful. You get cut up in traffic and bin your horn then forget about it, then later some prick jumps a queue and you get pissed off and bounce back. The whole process is cathartic. In the absence of that you build up tension with nowhere for it to go. I’ve been unemployed for a while and I’ve definitely found that to be the case for me. Not having Barrie in accounts to whinge about makes me care about the washing up so much more.
Thats my idea for a new reality TV show. **One of our contestants is rich, and never checks his bank balance!** 14 women. 14 men. Let the footlicking and toadying commence!
My 80 odd year old father likes to go through all the takeaway menus that come through his door, looking for spelling mistakes, which he then circles. That really is trivial!
My favourite things to wind Dad up involve conflating things from the past with the modern day. ‘I’m heading out to start the car.’ ‘You mind that crank handle at your age Dad’ ‘Best shut the gates’ ‘oh I wouldn’t Dad, second post is due soon’ ‘Bargain Hunt is on again.’ ‘Never mind, Kenny Everett is up next’ I’d imagine the anger effect is somewhat similar
I do this at 31, just imagine how experienced I’ll be at 80!
Yeah, that is just a fun way to spend a lazy afternoon.
I'm 41 and autistic and I do this
Oh that’s perfect for me. I will put that down as one of my retirement plans. At the moment I’m far too busy making replying to Reddit posts with, “It’s lose not loose”.
Yeah, this. The trivial becoming the important. My parents retired and over a period of 1 year became completely different busy body cranks.
Since he’s retired, my dad takes great pleasure in ripping up offers to apply for credit cards etc and posting them back to the originators. He also goes through every bill meticulously and once spent 2 hours on the phone to Virgin Media as he had calculated that they owed him 47p
I love this, keep us updated about his fight for the money back at small claims. Petty legal cases are how I plan to spend my own retirement.
This is the answer. Minor things become a massive deal. My grandparents would tell you that they're very busy on Fridays and couldn't possibly fit anything else in... they literally go to the supermarket and that's it but its a massive thing to them becasue they have nothing else to do. It's sad.
My parents are like that. Mum has been retired less than a year, dad since first lockdown and they apparently don't have time to do things despite having far more time than they did when they working. They only get to the gym twice a week because that's all they can manage to fit in... I work 40 hours a week yet manage to go 3 times a week, swimming 4 times and other activities. It's like they can only do one thing per day and the rest of the day is written off.
My mum is the same. I’ll do that tomorrow because I’m going for a coffee today. As if that will take all day.
The biggest mental decline in an adults life is at the point of retirement. I’m not saying people should work until death obviously, but you need to keep the old grey matter occupied.
Yes, it's definitely this. People in prisons are the same way. Everything in the immediate surroundings is the biggest thing ever. There's nothing to do so even the smallest thing is huge. Exactly the same mechanism.
It’s called retirement.
True, this. I think similar things about people who spend their weekends manning speed traps in sleepy villages.
It is very hard. As far as I can understand it (I am 63 so I have known lots and lots of elderly people), as one gets older, one's body works progressively less well. That makes one more and more risk averse, it makes one feel one has less and less control over the world, and so smaller and smaller things seem more annoying and scary. One cannot do anything about the deterioration of one's body, about one's mortality; therefore one takes it out on one's environment. Change even in trivial things becomes annoying and scary, so one grumbles about them. How can an older person be different? Have stuff to live for, basically- family, grandchildren, fulfilling work or voluntary activity that continues in old age.
100% this. When I was younger I just assumed people who became frail were in some way responsible for it - gave up exercising or ate badly etc - or were just unlucky and if you kept exercising you’d be ok. Now in my mid 50s and I’ve got mild arthritis developing, and got a heart arrhythmia (drinking plated a part) and despite exercising as much as I ever used to and eating less than I used to I can’t shift the weight. I jogged and did weights all my life. It seems as you get older stuff just happens.
This. It is likely a generational trait. I see it a lot in the generation born 1930-1948 in the UK. I have planned out my forthcoming retirement, even allowing for a deterioration in physical health along the way. I have hobbies which require intellectual stimulation as well as ensuring I walk a lot during the day. One risk averse behaviour I had was to worry about towing the caravan so stopped taking it out. However I recognised this and with the help of a friend who drives a truck for a living, he got me back out on the road and I am happily towing again. My parents generation in general never planned for retirement, perhaps because they didn’t expect to live so long. My mother has become isolated in her own home or in the case of the aunt, now deteriorating in a care home. The key is physical activity first, then mental.
You say ones too much
Does one wave with one's hand reversed so the crowd can only see the back of one's hand?
My gran spent an hour on the phone to my mum in a rage because she didn't like the new kitchen her next door neighbours had put in.... a kitchen in another persons house... that she has never and will never enter.
Sounds like my neighbour
I really don’t think this is just an ‘elderly’ thing. I work with elderly people all the time (healthcare) and I’m constantly impressed by how good an attitude many of them have, despite having some awful diagnoses. In fact, it’s usually the younger generations who give us the most grief when eg waiting times are long.
Getting angry at trivial things is very common with people who have too much time on their hands, so the elderly and teenagers along with the unemployed or people with health conditions meaning that they can’t work are prime candidates.
Life's strangest paradox - we come as we go.
Speaking as somebody who spent a good amount of time working for a large UK retailer, all I can say is that I get where OP is coming from. By far the most troublesome customers were the older generation. They can make the slightest issue into a major incident and will often be incredibly rude in the prices. On many occasions they could he downright nasty.
I completely agree. This isn't an age thing but an attitude and personality thing. Some people just get angry about things easier than others.
It's partly because we understand the world less & less as we age. Words change, norms change, music everything. It can get lonely, bewildering and more living in a world you're aware is leaving you behind. As this happens you cling to the things you _do_ know. When even these little things change it's an annoyance. It _will_ come to you.
When your nearest surviving bank or Post Office becomes further and further away, you no longer can drive because of deteriorating eyesight and hearing and the local bus service has been reduced or withdrawn and you are told ‘you can do it online’ and you can’t because of your deteriorating eyesight, you start to feel justified in being cantankerous.
But I don’t want it to!
As others have said, find stuff to worry about and care for
>‘you can’t go to Sainsburys on a Wednesday’ When did this come in?
To be fair, we revisited this later and there was a nugget of good advice in it. Turned out that the NHS had a mobile breast cancer screening unit in the supermarket car park for the next three Wednesdays and it was causing havoc with the parking.
More opportunity for the old folk to join in the fun and shop on Saturday, then!
I used to work in a shop and it did my head in, when old people used to do a weekly shop during the school run.
Didn't you get your allotted supermarket shopping days given to you alongside your National Insurance number just before you turned 16? Imagine if you've been shopping on the wrong days all this time, the council men will NOT be happy!
The council men can swivel. I'm not paying for that chicken... Just let it go. It's been years now and I'm still harassed.
The half day closing started because of the 1904 Shop Hours Act. It faded out well before the law was repealed in 1994.
My mum fixates on inconsequential things because she doesn’t have enough to occupy her mind and (not now because she’s clearly declining and that it would be unfair to say this in relation to her now but I wonder if there is a correlation) she didn’t really make much effort to find enough things to occupy her mind. When my dad was alive, she had him, and since she hasn’t something like an unusual car being parked in the street overnight (obviously a neighbour with a relative visiting) becomes hugely important, and now she’s mentally declining and part of me thinks is that because she’s fallen out of the habit of thinking? I live 250 miles away and I don’t drive and we all know the trains are shite so while I do visit as often as I can all I can do otherwise is phone her which I have done every day or two for the past 5 years and try as we might, me and my sister have never got her to get involved in anything outside of her 2/3 times a fortnight seeing her friends. Who also have very little to talk about. And yet she’s in awe of a friend 10 years older who is ‘marvellous’ because she travels by herself and does yoga and goes abroad and uses the internet and none of those things were out of my mums reach until she accepted somewhere that they were. I think you become old when you believe you are old, and if you don’t believe you are and that it’s all downhill and you should just strap yourself into the armchair then you won’t. I sound angry with my mum and I kind of am; she was so together until my dad passed and I absolutely don’t disagree depression and grief had a lot to do with it, but it’s as if the moment to choose to defy that has passed and she’s accepted she’s old (she’s 75, I don’t think that’s actually that old these days) and that that’s it and I think giving up on yourself is a real thing. I don’t need advice because we have tried everything and she’s being investigated for dementia now; I just wish she’d picked up on her sense of herself even before my dad passed and found a way to be for herself but she never did, even earlier in life; she has always been about us or someone else or anyone else but never her, and now it seems it’s too late because we have the same conversation every time we speak, so I think think of yourself is the answer.
This is a worry I have for my mum- my dad passed away last year and she had a very fulfilling life with him and her own social life. I live abroad so I often feel guilty that I’m not there to support her on a day-to-day basis. But nearly a year on after my father’s death she’s almost found herself again. She’s got regular things she does weekly and keeps herself busy. One thing that has also been useful is joining circles / groups for widows who have been through what she has. Sorry, I haven’t got anything material to add. Just saw your comment and it resonated- hope it gets easier for you and your mum.
It just is what it is now, but thanks for your kind words. She has her (I wouldn’t hesitate to use this word critically if I was talking about myself but I’m talking about her, so I do) tiny world and at this point she isn’t capable of making it any bigger. But she could have been, before or after my dad passed because he would never have objected to her finding her own interests and for a while she did, fleetingly, like everything else. But she shrunk it all down to nothing while she managed his passing and by that point the idea of age had set in and she gave up. Simple things like learning how to accept a FaceTime call became completely implausible so I sound like I’m blaming her a bit and I am; it would have been so little effort for something like that, we went out and bought her a phone she could have worked and she chose not to. I feel like her grandkids’ friends FaceTime with their grandparents but it was just so impossibly modern for her that she didn’t even try to learn how to do it, even though it was just a different screen. She frustrates me as much as I understand her.
It was like that for my nan and she was at least 85 when my grandad died and was very dependent on him. She had carers in to help and it took a while but eventually my dad managed to find some social clubs for her to attend during the week, which she was reluctant to go to but eventually tried and liked some of them. One time when I was visiting her she basically booted me out the house after I'd only been there about half an hour so she could go to her club. When I finally got my sat nav sorted and started driving home, I spotted her about a mile away from her house tazzing along the path at about 15mph on her mobility scooter. It did make me laugh, it was a big change to who she was when my grandad was around or the year or so after he died (she'd just sit inside and expect people to visit her for the whole day). Sadly she had a fall not long after that, had to go into a home and deteriated with dementia rapidly, but it was nice that she had that period after my grandad died where she learned to have some sort of happiness in life again.
One of my jobs is to get old people to join social clubs to help keep them independent and I wish I could just show them all this. Persuading them to try something new is the hardest part of the job by far and so many don't, but those that do end up having a great time.
I've heard older people in their seventies say "well, that's my three score and ten", as if it's just an inevitability that you can't do anything except decline and wait to die once you hit that age. Some people do get dealt a rough hand in terms of health, but I think a lot of people do choose not to be physically and mentally active. Retirement is portrayed as some wonderful prize.To some it is - one friend is incredible at her age; walking the West Highland Way, going to gigs, volunteering all over the place... but I've seen it absolutely destroy others within the space of a year. I think there are some better provisions for retirement planning now, thankfully.
The mind is the yeast and the brain is the bread
Keep busy. I watched it first hand with the declining health of my grandfather. He worked until he was 92, which sounds bleak, but he loved what he did, and knew *full well* keeping busy was the key to his old age strength, and keeping is mind active. The *very second* he had to stop working to full time care for my grandmother and deal with her dementia was like watching his health free fall off a cliff. It really was uncanny. His muscular arms atrophied, his mind slowed, and he lost the ability to walk. This didn't happen in the space of years, this happened in the space of about 7 months, and then he died. On his 92nd birthday, he could fight a bear and sharp as a tack. And before he'd even gotten to 93 he was a feeble husk begging for death. He experienced none of this before stopping work. A combination of stress, and stopping work is without a doubt caused his death. He could handle the stress, as he had for years beforehand, my grandmothers dementia hadn't come out of nowhere. But he couldn't handle sitting around doing nothing not working. The thing is, so many things went into his work that were beneficial for his health. It gave him a schedule, to regularly wake up, have meals, wash. He moved around, concentrated, thought about things, was actively engaged. He got on with chores, used his strength, did gardening as recreation. Once he was unable to work, all that enrichment stopped. My grandfather always said "The moment you stop moving, you die". It's truly a borderline spiritual moment in my life to realize just how right he was.
He sounds really inspiring! What was his line of work, if you don't mind my asking?
He handmade musical equipment, mostly for drums used in orchestras. Mallets, drumsticks, cymbals, brushes etc
What a wonderful career! Expert craftsmanship for a great purpose. That's the kind of job that's inherently rewarding, no wonder he didn't want to stop doing it.
I don't think what you think is 'elderly' is the common understanding it. Cantankerous, yes, elderly? No. Anyway, as cognitive ability declines as a result of old age, injury, social media people turn into arseholes. But dw, you can push them over and unlike weebles they do stay done.
Neither my parents or in laws are cantankerous, they just let their day to day lives get derailed by minor inconvenience. I admit I try my best to wind them up a lot. My Mum occasionally has dodgy hearing and if she says something along the lines of ‘bit of a breeze today’ I’ll sigh and reply something like ‘Squeeze? No. Not much of a Jools Holland fan Mum. I did like ABC though’ . I just enjoy the blank looks in return.
Cantankerous means to always find things to moan about, that pretty much means taking issue with minor inconveniences. But 10/10 for winding them up, remember, you never asked to be born.
I guess I see cantankerous as maybe leaning towards being a bit nasty as a result of that stuff, which they definetly are not
Na, cantankerous just means basically Mr Meldrew as opposed Hyacinth Bucket. Meldrew moans about everything whereas mrs bucket moans at things she thinks are below her which is usually people.
Come from someone who is partially deaf and uses hearing aids, it’s shitty to use someone’s hearing problem to ‘wind them up’ It might (and hopefully will be) you one day struggling to hear. It’s horrible.
I’m understand why you might say that if that’s how you reflect on the situation, but different families have different ways of using humour. Mum knows exactly what I’m doing as it’s usually followed by a whack with a tea towel and a withering ‘you know exactly what I said’. I also suspect in a funny sort of way she would miss it if I started treating her like a ming vase. Equally if she told me to pack it in I’d stop instantly.
Exercise - maintain proximal muscle tone, don't 'suffer a fall'. Socialise - get the hell out of the house, talk to people. Liberalise - your viewpoint may well have inched to the centre or right over the years, educate yourself and avoid using the phrase 'back in my day'.
I think all of those problems can be solved by adapting to change? What you've asked is an interesting question, but I think a big part of it, is just keeping up with the modern world. Wherever it may go. I for one, welcome our AI overlords.
I have relatives who still refuse to use the internet at all. They pay bills by cheque at the post office, won't have direct debits, have never shopped or banked online. Won't pay by card, always cash. They just refuse to accept change.
well, aren't they losing money if they refuse to accept change? I mean, really, if you pay £5 for something that's only £4.93, you've lost 7p more than needed! /joking
My mum isn't this bad but she's only 62 and terrible with technology. She can't even connect to the wifi without help. I bring it up to her because my dad has always worked in tech and he does everything and I just say if he dies you literally won't be able to do anything without help. Some people are set in their ways, my 86 year old grandma is better at technology than my mum. I guess it's all about being open to it
I think some of it is fear and some of it is obstinance. The relative in question is only 15 years older than me and is one of the 'They cant tell me what to do' brigade. Im sure he and his wife are eligable for some age related benefits but they refuse to even contemplate applying or let anyone do it on their behalf because 'You don't want them to know your business'. It is pointless trying to convince them otherwise, their own adult children have been trying for years. Everytime we see them its always the same conversation. They even refused to read the electricity meter or have have a smart meter because they thought the meter reader should do it, who comes round about every two years, then complained that they had expensive estimated bills. They wont even have LED bulbs.
Some elderly people are genuinely terrified that the internet means scammers and hackers and losing all their money. Especially if they watch all the scam warning programmes on daytime TV!
A lot of the currently elderly were adults in a time before self awareness, therapy and everything we now know to be harmful when raising children. They may carry unprocessed traumas, or never learned to vent their frustrations. Getting old can be terrifying (e.g. an atheist who believes their self is destroyed when they die), if they never learned to talk about their feelibgs, they will find other ways to air their frustrations.
Keep smiling, keep moving, and keep doing something interesting. When you stop being interested you find your time is filled by staring at your slippers wondering when Repossessed Homes, Five in a Bed, Slightly Incontinent and Moaning Women are next on TV.
Doing stuff that keeps your mind active helps. And doing anything new. My parents (80s) have got roped into a huge legal mate helping their friend sort out trusts and stuff for another friend's will, bequests to museums and such - but it and the required meetings in town have really ensured they got back into the world post-Covid. They also do cryptic crosswords, meet friends regularly, go on holidays that includes lectures and a group to hang out with. They're a bit slower in the brain than they used to be, and when in pain or worried do get hung up on particular things, but on the whole they and in-laws are doing pretty well. The whole 'flexibility of thought' thing is possibly just them feeling more able to voice stubbornness and not wanting change than they used to - they're probably all autistic, given the offspring.
I think the best way to avoid turning into a witterer that gets hung up on minor thing did to have a plan for retirement. Regular hobbies or volunteering, anything that gives you a routine getting you out the house with something to do. Rattling around in the house without things to keep you occupied make you worry far too much about what little routine you have (catching the bus at a particular stop)
My MIL is 87 and she's younger in mind and spirit than the vast majority of 40 somethings I know. I haven't yet worked out her secret entirely, but it seems to mostly revolve around keeping the mind active. Never stop learning and keep an open mind, that's what I'm doing, at least.
As you get older, your world shrinks. Long drives don’t happen etc. with this your social life shrinks too giving less to talk about and little changes in your environment are a bigger concern
This happens if you get sick or are caring for a sick person too. My partner (52) was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer last year. We have gone from being a sociable couple who went out most nights, travelled the world and had frequent holidays and weekends away to barely leaving the house. I’m only 42 and I feel like my world has shrunk to a 10 mile radius and I’m living the life of an elderly person.
Stay social and mobile for starters. My parents moved to live near us and my mum regularly says how much she hates it. Before they moved, she hated where they lived and couldn’t wait to move. She has no friends, never has. Her and my dad were always out and about and holidaying. Covid and lockdown really slowed them down and once things were back to normal my dad’s health then started to decline. He’s now not able to drive and mum has never driven. So they are now isolated. I do feel for them, but I worry that although we are close by, they have no friends their age. We see them regularly but conversation is quite often very tricky as they haven’t done anything other than watch TV and read the Daily Mail/Express. Their world is shrinking and they get increasingly angry about the world/NHS/technology. Less walking = less fitness/muscle mass/balance/core strength = increased risk of falling = worry about walking = reduced socialising = increased isolation = decline 😦 Echoes of all the other posts here.
Elderly technically means "a bit old" - it used to be used for people who were approaching old age, rather than the very old, but it started being used euphemistically, and now if you hear "an elderly person" you picture someone in their 90s, which really isn't what the word means!
That's the thing about words, their "real" meanings don't always match their actual usage, which I'd argue has then become the real meaning.
What is the real word for an elderly person
coffin dodger
Geriatric, but that's also been chomped up by the euphemism treadmill as some people find it offensive
Old
I train Brazilian jiu jitsu. There is a guy who is 65( I think) who started at age 60 after he retired. He said he retired and got so bored so quickly from just doing nothing. So now he trains about 4 times a week. And whilst he is obviously not as quick as the guys in their 20's, he is in very good shape compared to a lot of other people his age. I think you just need to keep your mind stimulated.
My dad was like this. Obsessed by what time the neighbours went to work or how far onto the pavement they put their bins.
I am the older one amongst you who sometimes comments. This is normal for many older people, but unless you get dementia you do not have to live that life. I **currently** do not have to worry about work, money, looking after my kids 24/7, so minor day to day challenges will be more at the forefront of my day to day life than when I was younger. I choose to mostly tackle these with humour, or a bit of swearing and occasionally some actual action, but understand that may change. I work hard to stay engaged with the wider world both in real life and virtually. As you get older your "world" will shrink. Your family and friends will die, your health will decline. Plan for that well in advance and talk about it with your family. I have lived a good life and everyone knows that if I qualify for Dignitas that is where I want to go.
The major symptom seems to be hating change of any kind, so I guess all you can do is try and keep in mind that you need to embrace it rather than fight it. How easy or even possible that is I’ll find out in a few decades!
1 cigar and a glass of whisky each day.
Honestly I think that the world is just changing negatively in a bunch of ways and some people are more realistic about it. Back in the day we had to queue at the supermarket but there were 27 tills and each one had a person on it who was devoting 100% of their attention to your shop. I used to work in a shop like that. It was a bit crap but it was okay. Now you have self service and it's common for one overworked older lady to be running about dealing with up to 15 customers at once. One seemingly silly example, but this stuff is everywhere and as you age you can remember how it used to be It is frustrating to see things get worse. The only things that have really gotten better in my lifetime have been as a result of me working hard and moving up the social ladder. When you are on a fixed income you can't do that.
Got to keep as active as possible, both physically and mentally. A busy mind is a happy mind I think, as long as you aren't stressed!
Stay physically and mentally active for as long as possible. My granddad was doing his shopping at Tesco right up until the week he died. He was a regular at the local butchers and they sent us a present when he passed because they noticed he had not been in and wanted to check up on him. He had to slow down a little bit as he passed 90, however he refused to stop and rely solely on the rest of us to look after him. You also notice the difference between the retired guys at my gym who have always been active vs. those who only took up being active once they retired. Those who started later are seriously out of shape compared to those who have always been active.
The only thing I am trying to remember as I get older is that the people who seem to retire and just stay in and watch tv do nothing else but they seem to go hill very fast. But then people who say go out walking for ages or take a dog for a walk or do things seem to be capable and do things for a lot longer.
Die at 60?
Staying busy. My grandad worked until he was about 76 out of choice, then tended his allotment every day for 12 years after that. Now he paints and has a small vegetable patch at home and is still not really elderly. I remember being taken to the beach by him when i was younger and we kicked a rugby ball around for 3 hours or so, he was probably about 75 at the time.
I like to hope that by the time my body starts to decline significantly, I can just be hooked up to some kind of VR system (assuming my eyes still work) and some pretty awesome drugs and just live out my days in VR where I can still do stuff. the way VR is developing these days, It's not too mad to hope.
My dad is 87, still does gardening, painting, is up and down ladders, does house work, walks to the shops for his morning paper and bacon roll etc. The trick as far as I can tell with him is staying active both physically and mentally. Continue to engage with life. He'd still be driving if we allowed it but his reaction times aren't what they were and he was beginning to drive more defensively up until a couple of years ago when we had that conversation with him. Tbh he was properly pissed but accepted the fact he had the potential to become a risk to himself and others. It's only in the last 6 months he's slowed down a bit with all the activities as he got Covid again last year and he tires a bit quicker than he used to. Plenty of naps appears to be key too 😂
My MIL is a neuropsychologist. She is in her 60s and she's constantly learning new things, forcing her brain to work and form new connections. She's also still working (because pensions in my homeland are a laughing stock), so that adds up as well. And she always says that you have to keep training your brain as long as you are alive. I must say, she has one of the most flexible and vivid personalities among the people I know, and she can easily compete with people much younger. Which proves her point that yeah, neuroplasticity is a thing, and it needs to be taken care of regardless of age.
By knowing that you'll be old one day.
I think as you get older any change can feel unnecessary and worse. In some cases it is actually worse, but if you don't have enough self-awareness about this presumption then you end up labelling any change as bad. I'm 31 and hoping that I don't turn into someone who just complains about everything.
Ask her why can't she go to Sainsburys on a Wednesday? ask her is she too busy sacrificing captured enemy warriors to Woden to go?
This could also be a neurodiverse thing, not just an "elderly" thing. Maybe your MIL was always like that. It reminds me of myself a bit too if I'm honest.
Surround yourself with people who will challenge you, stretch your boundaries and introduce you to new ideas, media and concepts.
I don't think you can. I'm nearly r2 but my version of 'elderly' versus older vs emotionally entrenched in years ago will be very different. My grandmother died Xmas of 2019. Pre covid. If you gave me a list f "elerly" ways.. she would probably have hit 4 or 5... but she was 95 at the time. My partners grandmother was 'elderly' before she turned 80.
I have an uncle, not quite 70 yet. He talks more elderly than the rest.
Honestly, I take the piss with my parents (and they often laugh about it) about NO FUN ALLOWED in their house when the moaning about trivial crap comes out.
I'm under the assumption that it's a fucking lottery. I meet plenty of old people in my job (admittedly they come to me so I won't ever meet the shut ins). It seems it doesn't matter about wealth, activity, willingness to adventure etc, that people just turn into stereotypical elderly. Completely unscientific but purely anecdotal
As our minds age and tire, they become less flexible, and it is easier for us to take comfort in falling into easily remembered and followed routine behaviour. It seems that the fewer decisions we have to make to get through the day, the better the we seem to be able to cope. When those routines are broken, it becomes a major source of irritation because it requires considerable mental effort to absorb new information and patterns, and to feel as comfortable dealing with our daily lives as we were before the change. That is why it is so important to keep our minds challenged for as long as possible by continuing working, learning a new language, maintaining and improving our social contacts, and starting new hobbies. Anything that will help to stop the mundane daily rote of our lives from becoming the most important thing. I'm 72 and I'm just starting to notice the signs of mental laziness. How long I can resist the decline remains to be seen. When I hit 80, I'll post an update. If I am not too irritated by having mislaid my slippers.
As a guy who's fortunate enough to still have all his grandparents with us despite them all being in their late 80's one set is still the same people they were in their 60's the other set have become very elderly very quickly. The key difference seems to be that one set has stayed active, kept up their hobbies, finding ways to adjust as they get older rather than just jacking them in (for example still cycling, just switching the pedal bike for an E bike, swapping long distance countryside walks with shorter distances with a metal detector etc) and staying social, speaking and interacting with people of all ages still at clubs or events, finding ways to got to town for a coffee regularly, doing their best to stay up do date with technology etc. (don't get me wrong my Nan is still a stubborn old lunatic when she wants to be, but according to my dad there's no change there from when he was young :P) The other set has let themselves become really isolated and really anti social, Giving up on the things they did for years rather than adjusting so they still could keep doing them etc. and have very quickly become very...old (for lack of a better way to describe it) I'm at a point where my youngest grandparents look and act the oldest by a country mile. and it very much feels like something they let happen rather than something that's happened to them
I, married male 74 y.o., have enough structured time; gym classes 4 times a week, relaxation time; 2 days with campervan and dog, and learning time; constant stream of library books and online courses that my life continually improves. This is in addition to golf, gardening etc. and a fantastic wife :-) My health may be (very) slowly changing but nothing that I can’t adapt to. I take interest in what is going on, but not too much to be concerned with whatsoever is the current topic of conversation. I rarely watch the news but have a ‘light’ interest in current affairs. As soon as you start calling yourself “elderly “ you become elderly. Just get on with life and spend very little time looking in the mirror!
I’m retiring in 5 weeks and looking forward to getting annoyed about everything and everyone. I’ve earned it .
She just winding you up..
Regular exercise
If you don't want to be physically elderly, Keep working and incredibly laborious job well into your 80s. All the old farmers I know are skinny and hunched over, but can throw bales even better than me, and without breaking a sweat (Though perhaps that's a glandular problem)
When you’ve had a good rich life, and then get to the point where there’s basically nothing to look forward to, and your body barely works, and you’re aware that you mind isn’t what it used to be, it must be very hard to maintain a positive outlook.
I really don't think my comment is going to help, for which I apologise. However I do think it *may* be slightly valid. We all grow up, life changes alot. I'm in my 40s, talking to me kids.. they see thing differently. I will struggle with generation Z and Alpha thoughts etc. We ALL do this. It is part if what makes us human etc... I have lived with so many divergent formalities.. when I get to elderly I'm pretty sure I will want a quite head. It means at that point you kind off say you aren't playing anymore. The way society works/should work.. is that when you are elderly you will be yourself.
Being active. Once you become sedentary muscles tighten, takes more energy to move. Then weight gain, not drinking enough water because of constant trips to the loo. All a vicious circle.
From observing my own mum and her partner I'd say the most important things are to stay active and engaged. They both have loads of hobbies and boredom is an abstract concept to them. They're incapable of being bored. Mum got diagnosed with diabetes and her response was to start walking for miles every day. She's lost a fair bit of weight and is doing much better. They face minor inconveniences all the time and just roll with it, they don't get upset over trivial things. So yeah I'd just say being active and having hobbies.
Be careful about moving out of easy reach of a city. The denseness of them allows for stuff like museums, galleries, gigs, talks on different subjects to happen so there'll always be a concentration of available activities to help keep a varied amount of interests going.
My grandparents are 83 and just turning 80 this month and aren't elderly. I completely put it down to how much walking they do. They come and visit me once a fortnight and walk for around an hour. They walk to to do their weekly shop around 40 mins each way. Most days they walk into town or to a garden centre about half an hour each way. It's pretty ingrained in all of us to just walk if possible, if it's long they just stop in a pub halfway. I'm the same, I'll walk to visit them and avoid busses for anything under than an hour's walk
In my non-medical opinion this sounds like the early stages of dementia. I’ve been through it with three of four of my grandparents and my mom’s cousin. She’s trying to hide it by adhering to rigidly to her routines and anything that isn’t what she KNOWS won’t commit into her memory, so it upsets her. She doesn’t want to admit even to herself that her mind is starting to fail but she can hide it as long as the world stays exactly the same, this is why minor changes are disproportionately upsetting. Try get her tested so you can monitor the progression and start qualifying for assistance resources. Dealing with a loved one’s dementia on your own is hell, use your energy now to get help in place.
My parents are in their 70s and are in great shape. They do pilates multiple times a week, ride horses (and compete) and go on multiple active holidays a year. I think keeping active and having hobbies that engage you physically and mentally is key. It seems a lot of people struggle with retirement and don't really know what to do with themselves and it can be easy to do not much of anything.
Mental stimulation and purpose. I work with a bunch of retired people. The oldest is 89 and all are in the ball. So I recommended volunteering somewhere that forces social interactions and learning. I have a colleague who fakes being annoyed when someone starts off my saying they are elderly when they are younger than my colleague.
I volunteer at a charity and the other day I was paired up with a 75 year old woman who is an ambassador for Ageing Well which is an initiative in the local area. It might be worth looking for something similar in your area: https://www.sunderland.gov.uk/ageingwell?ccp=true
Stay social, work on being bendy or at the very least, stretching, keep doing some form of exercise and stay as independent as possible.
You exercise to keep your body young, you try new things to keep your mind active, and you don't let anyone who's not a doctor tell you you're too old to do something, and even then you take it with a pinch of salt.
Tbh I know loads of people my age (early 40s) and younger like that. Some people are cantankerous by nature, and others don't get enough enrichment in their enclosure. I'm disabled so I am limited in what I can do, but I do loads of stuff regardless both in and out of home. Keep doing and seeing new things (I don't travel really but I am active in the community and meet new people all the time), keep having new things to think and talk about.
You really dont need to think about that man, climate collapse will fix that problem for you. Enjoy your last years and dont worry about stuff like that.
Number 1. Never, ever, start talking about how much better it was in the 70s or 80s or 90s, or whatever decade it was when you were a child / teenager. No one wants to hear that shit, except other old people. Number 2. Make sure to interact with a wide variety of people in person, especially people of different generations, take an interest in people and don't assume anything about them, just because they look or talk differently to you. Number 3. Try learn new things, and when learning new things, don't go on about "used to be better in my day". I am well within middle age now, and people of my generation are now moaning on Facebook... "oh kids cant play outside anymore, not like we used to ehhh?! ahhaha!" "We used to go clubbing and dance the night away in the 90s, these kids cant even stop watching tok tik, losers!", fucks sake, they don't realize they are already turning into old gits, I can see the transformation before my very eyes
I got a phone call from my dad yesterday apparently he’d been to see a psychiatrist because he was worried about his memory and the psychiatrist diagnosed him with the start of dementia and because of that he won’t be able to come down and visit me in my new home. When he told me I said that it was okay and that he was nearly 80 (he’s 79 next month) and that sometimes your memory and brain functions start to slow down.
Good grief how old are they I’m 70 my biggest complaint is not enough time to do what I want. Age is an attitude, I guess it helped that until I was 68 I was still doing tech support in a primary school.
70 is not very old these days
Agree but I know many younger folk who are older than me.
No you don’t.
At 53 I don’t feel old, my body does, despite being active, using the gym and other various pursuits. It’s all in your mindset, the minute you start telling people you’re old and acting old, you start being old. This doesn’t mean act the idiot and start believing you’re a 20 something again it means enjoy life, don’t be scared of your age, don’t be afraid of challenges or change, just remember the saying your as old as you feel…
Die?
To be honest your MIL sounds much more like a millennial than someone elderly! Older people usually have no issues with change, as they know it's essential for progress. It's the younger people who haven't learned that yet that cant be arsed to walk around a corner. Best way to avoid it is to grow old!
Haha! For the record, my MIL is lovely. But in the last 10yrs I’ve noticed that complaints have crept in bit. Small things like ‘this tea is too hot’ for example. She is also very tech savvy, banks online, proficient What’s App user etc. It’s just become delightfully easy to wind her up and let her go by saying something in passing like ‘oooh I saw Waitrose aren’t giving away free coffee any more’ or ‘you ought to look at an electric car’
Seriously (my first comment, whilst true, was also a bit of a wind up the millennials post!), it may be that she is actually struggling or at least quite unhappy. In my experience, older people cling to what may seem like meaningless things when they feel the things that mattered to them are gone. Similarly if their comments like that seem out of place with a good grasp of technology etc. A simple convo about "what do you miss these days" over a cuppa might really help.
I’ll bear it in mind next time I’ve got a spare four hours :)